View Full Version : Bailiff charge?
Yesterday a Bailiff dropped off a letter regarding arrears in council tax payment for this year, the amount is around £131.00.
I have no problems in paying the council tax as i had all intensions in paying on or after the 27th of this month as this is when my next batch of money would be ready to pay the council.
My question is that the Bailiff has put their usual charge on delieving this letter and i would like to know is this something that i under law will have to pay?
mark will i am
27-05-2009, 10:13 AM
How much is the baliff charging?
I know £24.50 is not a great deal of money but i feel that why the f*ck should i fund this legal robbery and give them my hard earned cash.
comma berenices
27-05-2009, 11:24 AM
I'm not sure how to link a thread but have a look at the baliff tresspass thread,merlincove has posted the oft guidlines regarding baliff charges.
As i read it you won't have to pay the charge,you did'nt contract with the baliff the council did.
I have just finished a conversation on the phone with the baliff company explaining that i would like them to send me the contract between them and me as i believe the contract is actually with them and the council, the lady said i can request that info but they will still persue their moneys as they have been ordered by the council to collect that moneys.
merlincove
27-05-2009, 02:11 PM
I'm not sure how to link a thread but have a look at the baliff tresspass thread,merlincove has posted the oft guidlines regarding baliff charges.
As i read it you won't have to pay the charge,you did'nt contract with the baliff the council did.
Thanks comma berenices :D
Serendipity at work lol
here's the post:
And also, the oft released 'debt collection guidance' (OFT 664) ~ downloadable from www.oft.gov.uk
There is some mention of the costs that baliffs try to bung onto the original bill.
The oft make it clear that in the absence of express contractual provission baliff's costs are not payable by the debtor.... quote from their copyright material, from the above address - which they allow to be freely reproduced, except for sale or advertising puposes.
QUOTE:
Charging for debt collection
2.9
Charges should not be levied unfairly.
2.10
Examples of unfair practices are as follows:
a.
claiming collection costs from a debtor in the absence of express
contractual or other legal provision
b.
misleading debtors into believing they are legally liable to pay
collection charges when this is not the case, for example, when there
is no contractual provision
c.
not giving an indication in credit agreements of the amount of any
charges payable on default
d.
applying unreasonable charges, for example, charges not based on actual
and necessary costs
e.
applying charges which are disproportionate to the main debt.
Office of Fair Trading
So in the case of council tax, or any other debt that is returned to the original company, the baliff charges should be taken off the amount payable. And as such, we should all fight this every step of the way - no contract, no fees, let the original company settle the fee's as it is they who have entered into contract with the baliff, not us.
Also, this is worth while adding in, from the same document:
7
Debt collection visits
2.11
Those visiting debtors must not act in an unclear or threatening manner.
2.12
Examples of unfair practices are:
a.
not making the purpose of any proposed visit clear, for example, merely
stating that collectors or field agents will call is not sufficient
b.
visiting a debtor when it is known they are vulnerable, for example, when
a doctor's certificate has been provided stating that the debtor is ill
hope that helps somewhat malkeithappen and all
:-)
it is time to start stuffing it to them, using their own rulings to rock their boat.
merlincove
27-05-2009, 02:25 PM
I have just finished a conversation on the phone with the baliff company explaining that i would like them to send me the contract between them and me as i believe the contract is actually with them and the council, the lady said i can request that info but they will still persue their moneys as they have been ordered by the council to collect that moneys.
Tell em that you are not under contract with the council too and that they are acting fraudulantly in their actions because of this. It pi$$es them off, because it is true - no contract exists, no bill can be defined - from either party - therefore they are trying to extort monies from you fraudulantly. Classic.
If you weant to pay the bill try paying at your council office, and if they do not accept the money, ask to speak to the head honcho, get out your phone, amke sure they know that you are recording the conversation as evidence of your offer to pay. Record the conversation, as in doing so you have a record of your compliance and acceptance of their request: note the managers name on the recording, state the date and the place of the meeting, say: i am making an offer here and now to pay the balance of my account in order to clear the debt, do you accept my offer to pay with money notes today.' If they say they can not accept, because it is in the hands of the baliff, explain that you do not have a contract with the baliff and nor do you intend to have a contract with them, the debt is with the council and it is in this capacity that you make the offer, amke the offer again, and if they refuse to accept it again, thank them and walk away. Any judge who hears that conversation will not award against you. You could also pay the money to the balifs but tell them to suck their charges as you have not contracted with them, but in paying - that may construe a contract in itself, and they may say that you have agreed to contract and therefore you may be agreeing to their charge, so beware on that footing. If you want to pay, going to the council is your best bet, with the money and asking them to accept your payment. Even if they say no you can always leave them a cheque and see if they cash it :D Note on the recording that you have left a cheque. If they donm't agree with your recording them ask them, 'why, have you got anything to hide....'
Good luck with it buddy.
Thank you very much for your time and advice, i am going to try and do what you have said and will let you know the out come.
These legal robbers can go f*ck them selves and their corrupt ways.
merlincove
27-05-2009, 02:46 PM
Thank you very much for your time and advice, i am going to try and do what you have said and will let you know the out come.
These legal robbers can go f*ck them selves and their corrupt ways.
Well said :D
comma berenices
27-05-2009, 05:08 PM
Thanks comma berenices :D
Serendipity at work lol
here's the post:
Thank you merlincove,i must learn how to do these things:D
merlincove
27-05-2009, 06:29 PM
hit quote in the original post, cut all the text from the reply, move to the next thread, click reply and paste away :cool:
Just recieved a letter from the Bailiffs today...
Dear sir/madam
Re: Council tax
We write further to our letter of july 24th 2009.
We were issued a liability order obtained by your borough council for non payment of council tax a rrears. The balance outstanding was £136.92. This can be executed anywhere in England and Wales.
We were advised by our client on the 15th of july 2009 a payment had been transfered in order to clear the arrears due to them. However you were advised our charges would still be payable.
Our bailiff attented on the 26th may and a letter was left with a fee of £24.50 added. We then recieved a telephone call fro0m you advising a payment would be made direct to our client and no charges would be piad. However you were advised they would still be outstanding and payment would need to be made.
blah blah blah continues about when and what time they attended etc.
The data will continue to be held on our data base as there is still remains a balace due.
The balance of £42.50 is therefore correct and outstanding and unless payment is made we will continue action.
Payment must now be made within the next 7 days to prevent further action..
Could someone advise me on whats best to do regarding this letter and possibly the best way to respond please.
yozhik
03-08-2009, 07:14 PM
The biggest issue I see is that they accepted the payment to clear the arrears.
You do not have a contract with the debt collector.
They do.
... and yet they still accepted payment?
Something not right there.
merlincove
03-08-2009, 07:21 PM
notice them with a conditional offer to pay upon proof of their claim, as per signed contract, bill, signed bill under purgery etc, letter templates here abouts and on fmotl.
important: you need to conditionally accept their offer to avoid controvercy, they will not be able to provide proof of claim that a contract exists, end of, let them take it to court (they wont).
Notice them also that they did not ask and were not given permission to visit you at your home, call it a castle not a residence or a home, inform them that such visits were tresspass and the posting of letters was littering.
Inform them that as they were not invited and as there is no contractual agreement, no 'meeting of minds,' that they had no biz calling at your home and insisting that you pay for such a privilage.
Notice them that you know your rights and have a complete over-standing /comprehension of contractual law.
Print off the OFT doc from the gvt site, highlight the relevant passages and notice them of its inclusion in your notice. Say that you are bringing it to their attention, or reminding them of it.
Use the word Notice a lot.
Use the word contract a lot.
Emphasis that you have no wish to enter into contract and never have contracted.
Emphaisie that you have no wish to enter into further discussion where proof of claim is not forthcoming and that you will only respond to future letters / documents once proof of claim has been given. That way you will stay in honour even if you choose to ignore future mail. Just send any future mail back to sender, unopened, and with 'return to sender, No wish to Contract,' written across the window showing your fiction name.
Do not sign anything. Important. If they transfer you sig onto a liability order you are screwed.
Write, or type your name ie john of the bloggs family at the end of the letter.
And keep us informed buddy
i know it is a pain in the A, a great big letter chase, but it is the only way right now to beat these fekkers.
respect
The biggest issue I see is that they accepted the payment to clear the arrears.
The council made the error of taking the payment for this years council tax and not last years, so they said to me on the phone that they would transfer the moneys to what i formally intended the moneys to go towards.
This was all done over the phone, i was then told by the council that i would still be liable for the bailiff fees but that is between them and me, i responded in saying thats no problem.
I will write a letter tmorow putting NOTICE & CONTRACT in as many times possible and will forward their respose once i get more info from them.