Bailiff Trespass

[makeithappen]

I have just has a bailiff trespass onto my property and I am trying to report this to the police.

How can I get them to take this as a criminal case and not a civil one?

Thanks.

I have called the police to get a crime reference number but they claim this is a civil matter. How will I get a crime number from them?

[girlgye]

I have just has a bailiff trespass onto my property and I am trying to report this to the police.

How can I get them to take this as a criminal case and not a civil one?

Thanks.

I have called the police to get a crime reference number but they claim this is a civil matter. How will I get a crime number from them?

Why do you want a crime reference number? YOu call them and say someone is breaking down my door whilst I'm in the house. If they aren't then why should they come out to you? Just ignore the bailiff. You really have to sort this out yourself. Some of the methods people have used is to put cameras outside their house or use neighbours as witnesses.

[merlincove]

i would also suggest sending them a letter informing the balif that any further correspondance will be met with a tort of tresspass and harassment as you have no contract with them and do not wish to contract with them.

There are only certain people under common law who are allowed access to your property, ie to come down your path and up to you door. The baliff isn't one of them, unless you have contracted with them.

i think that the only people allowed to come to your door are the police, meter readers, the postman and people asking for directions, you'd need to check on that tho.

i don't think there is very much you can do without having a video of them trasspasing, so i think you may have to let this one go, but be better prepared in the future.

By informing them that any further acess to your home will result in tresspass you can act on them if they call as they will have a log of that call.

If they call again, tell them that you are recording them on your phone, do not open the door to them and tell them repeatedly that you do not wish to contract with them, and after three or four times of telling them say quite clearly that you are getting stressed by their their insistant presence and that you are now suffering duress, tell them unless they leave you will call the police and charge them with harassment and report them for their conduct to the office of fair trading (oft).

of course you also have the option of just ignoring them like girlgye says :-) You do not have to speak with them.

[number_6]

I have called the police to get a crime reference number but they claim this is a civil matter. How will I get a crime number from them?

Trespass is not a criminal offence. Your only recourse against a trespasser is to sue through the civil court.

[malvern]

The balif is a third party without a contract and once asked to leave, should ,if they fail to leave then they are in breech of the peace and you can call 999 and report it as that ...in progess ( well thats what they are there for:) ). The police will come blue lights and all.

ALSO...." Never ever let them in "





freedom is the grandchildren we are the caretakers

[stickwhistler]

I have just has a bailiff trespass onto my property and I am trying to report this to the police.

How can I get them to take this as a criminal case and not a civil one?

Thanks.

I have called the police to get a crime reference number but they claim this is a civil matter. How will I get a crime number from them?

"I am alarmed and distressed at the harassment of a man attempting to break into my home
and disturbing the peace by shouting and hammering on my door intimating violence toward me/family/etc."
Alarm, harass, distress, breach-of-the-peace are the magic words.

When (if) they turn up explain that a man did the above.
Get the name, number and station of the police officer, and get a crime number.

If the police officer doesn't co-operate mention 'dereliction of duty', and 'discreditable conduct' when asking
for his superintendents telephone number.
Don't bother with an inspector because each shift has it's own inspector, who may (will!) try to use an informal route i.e. file it in the bin.

A complaint has to be addresses by an officer of at least inspector rank.
Complain to the superintendent, and if no joy there IPCC
(waste of time though because they've been nobbled since the change from PCA).
Complain via your MP http://www.writetothem.com/, but make sure they have finished filling in their expenses first. :D

[number_6]

"I am alarmed and distressed at the harassment of a man attempting to break into my home


That would not be trespass. I am not aware that the OP claimed that somebody tried to break in to their home, but only trespassed on their property.

[makeithappen]

Great help everyone. I have have drafted a letter with the help of a friend.
Thanks again.

[merlincove]

And also, the oft released 'debt collection guidance' (OFT 664) ~ downloadable from www.oft.gov.uk

There is some mention of the costs that baliffs try to bung onto the original bill.

The oft make it clear that in the absence of express contractual provission baliff's costs are not payable by the debtor.... quote from their copyright material, from the above address - which they allow to be freely reproduced, except for sale or advertising puposes.

QUOTE:

Charging for debt collection

2.9
Charges should not be levied unfairly.
2.10
Examples of unfair practices are as follows:
a.
claiming collection costs from a debtor in the absence of express
contractual or other legal provision
b.
misleading debtors into believing they are legally liable to pay
collection charges when this is not the case, for example, when there
is no contractual provision
c.
not giving an indication in credit agreements of the amount of any
charges payable on default
d.
applying unreasonable charges, for example, charges not based on actual
and necessary costs
e.
applying charges which are disproportionate to the main debt.
Office of Fair Trading

So in the case of council tax, or any other debt that is returned to the original company, the baliff charges should be taken off the amount payable. And as such, we should all fight this every step of the way - no contract, no fees, let the original company settle the fee's as it is they who have entered into contract with the baliff, not us.

Also, this is worth while adding in, from the same document:

7
Debt collection visits

2.11
Those visiting debtors must not act in an unclear or threatening manner.
2.12
Examples of unfair practices are:
a.
not making the purpose of any proposed visit clear, for example, merely
stating that collectors or field agents will call is not sufficient
b.
visiting a debtor when it is known they are vulnerable, for example, when
a doctor's certificate has been provided stating that the debtor is ill

hope that helps somewhat malkeithappen and all

:-)

it is time to start stuffing it to them, using their own rulings to rock their boat.

[scottmurray]

TRY THIS TEMPLATE I FOUND it shits the fuckers right up


Dear Sir/Madam
I refer to your contact dated the 17/04/2009 with reference XXXXXX
XXXXX in which you allege there is an outstanding balance of £109876.00 owed by me to your client XXXXX.
I do not acknowledge any such debt either to your company or to hfo services.
I ask that you no longer process my data and that you cease all further communications as is my right under Section 10, subsection (1) of the Data Protection Act 1998.
You have 21 days from receipt of this letter to state that you comply or intend to comply with my request. Should you not comply or intend to comply, you are to state your reasons as to why.
Please be aware that I will regard any further approaches other than in writing as harassment under S40 of the Administration of Justice Act 1970, and any inappropriate written contact as harassment under that Act or S1 of the Malicious Communications Act 1988.
As such you are now to cease any telephone calls to my residence or workplace . Furthermore, should it be your intention to arrange a "doorstep call", please remember that there is only an implied license under English Common Law for certain people to visit me on my property without express permission; the postman and people asking for directions etc (Armstrong v. Sheppard and Short Ltd [1959] 2 Q.B. per Lord Evershed M.R.).
Please therefore take note that, I revoke license under English Common Law for you, or your representatives to visit me at my property and if you do so without my permission, you will then be liable to damages for a tort of trespass. You would also be conspiring in a trespass if you sent someone to visit me nevertheless.
Should you decide to ignore or continue to contact me about the alleged debt, I would ask that you provide documented proof that a) the debt exists and b) you are acting legally in your instruction for the alleged debt.
Failure to comply with any of the requests in this letter will result in further action being taken by me. This may include and may not solely be restricted to a complaint being made to The Office of Fair Trading and the Credit Services Association with regard to your professional conduct.
Please note that you will receive no further correspondence from me on this matter. The only communication I would now expect to receive from you would be confirmation that the matter is now closed.
This matter is not going to go away and ignoring the problem could potentially make your situation worse and I therefore strongly recommend that you heed the contents of this letter.

[tom bombadil]

That would not be trespass. I am not aware that the OP claimed that somebody tried to break in to their home, but only trespassed on their property.


Hullo number_6.

Someone walking all over my path is still trespass. By the same token, if some dude walked onto my front/rear lawn and sat down to eat, then the same trespass rule applies. Your property incudes your land.

Nelly.

[girlgye]

TRY THIS TEMPLATE I FOUND it shits the fuckers right up


Dear Sir/Madam
I refer to your contact dated the 17/04/2009 with reference XXXXXX
XXXXX in which you allege there is an outstanding balance of £109876.00 owed by me to your client XXXXX.
I do not acknowledge any such debt either to your company or to hfo services.
I ask that you no longer process my data and that you cease all further communications as is my right under Section 10, subsection (1) of the Data Protection Act 1998.
You have 21 days from receipt of this letter to state that you comply or intend to comply with my request. Should you not comply or intend to comply, you are to state your reasons as to why.
Please be aware that I will regard any further approaches other than in writing as harassment under S40 of the Administration of Justice Act 1970, and any inappropriate written contact as harassment under that Act or S1 of the Malicious Communications Act 1988.
As such you are now to cease any telephone calls to my residence or workplace . Furthermore, should it be your intention to arrange a "doorstep call", please remember that there is only an implied license under English Common Law for certain people to visit me on my property without express permission; the postman and people asking for directions etc (Armstrong v. Sheppard and Short Ltd [1959] 2 Q.B. per Lord Evershed M.R.).
Please therefore take note that, I revoke license under English Common Law for you, or your representatives to visit me at my property and if you do so without my permission, you will then be liable to damages for a tort of trespass. You would also be conspiring in a trespass if you sent someone to visit me nevertheless.
Should you decide to ignore or continue to contact me about the alleged debt, I would ask that you provide documented proof that a) the debt exists and b) you are acting legally in your instruction for the alleged debt.
Failure to comply with any of the requests in this letter will result in further action being taken by me. This may include and may not solely be restricted to a complaint being made to The Office of Fair Trading and the Credit Services Association with regard to your professional conduct.
Please note that you will receive no further correspondence from me on this matter. The only communication I would now expect to receive from you would be confirmation that the matter is now closed.
This matter is not going to go away and ignoring the problem could potentially make your situation worse and I therefore strongly recommend that you heed the contents of this letter.


Mwah. XXX

[number_6]

Hullo number_6.

Someone walking all over my path is still trespass. By the same token, if some dude walked onto my front/rear lawn and sat down to eat, then the same trespass rule applies. Your property incudes your land.

Nelly.

Yes, you are correct. But somebody suggested earlier to 'phone the police and claim that "somebody is trying to break in to my home". My point was, that somebody breaking in is not trespass, but a criminal offence. Somebody walking on your lawn might in some circumstances be considered trespass, but would be a civil prosecution, not criminal.

[shansuke]

I have just has a bailiff trespass onto my property and I am trying to report this to the police.

How can I get them to take this as a criminal case and not a civil one?

Thanks.

I have called the police to get a crime reference number but they claim this is a civil matter. How will I get a crime number from them?

answer the door naked with a big knife in your hand and talking to yourself in ridles next time your expecting them,lol,they wont come back.

[yozhik]

answer the door naked with a big knife in your hand and talking to yourself in ridles next time your expecting them,lol,they wont come back.

My crystal ball shows me a picture of some uniformed thugs repeating some bullshit phrase ... "Mental health Act" and "sanctioning" ... or something like that ...

Just what they want to happen.
Become a "patient" and they have been given all the authority they ever hoped of having ... a real Jacqui Smith wet dream.

[shansuke]

My crystal ball shows me a picture of some uniformed thugs repeating some bullshit phrase ... "Mental health Act" and "sanctioning" ... or something like that ...

Just what they want to happen.
Become a "patient" and they have been given all the authority they ever hoped of having ... a real Jacqui Smith wet dream.

dont worry about it,these thugs cant section you under the mental health act,all they can do is go and call the cops on you,wich buys you a good bit of time to get anything of worth you may have in to your neighbours house where they cant touch it(or give your neighbour all his stuff back if their watching).

by the time they get back with the cops your sitting on the couch with your pipe and slipers reading fly fishing by j.r.heartley.

or hell just answer the door to them in the nude again,its your house,you can go nude if you want,lol.

[dreamweaver]

Trespass is not a criminal offence. Your only recourse against a trespasser is to sue through the civil court.

Without wishing to muddy the waters, there are in fact a few situations where trespass is a criminal offence (most notoriously as defined in the Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994) - but this isn't one of them.

[tom bombadil]

Yes, you are correct. But somebody suggested earlier to 'phone the police and claim that "somebody is trying to break in to my home". My point was, that somebody breaking in is not trespass, but a criminal offence. Somebody walking on your lawn might in some circumstances be considered trespass, but would be a civil prosecution, not criminal.

Fair cop. :)


Nelly.

[m0et]

I had the bailiff around again at 6am this morning, i told him i did not want to contract with him and his reply was "what the fuck are you talking about" so i stayed calm and kept calling him sir, and repeated that i will notcontract with him, in the end i told him i am calling the police his response was "go on then you cunt" so i called the police and told them that i had a guy at the door who was claiming to be bailiff and was threatening me and harrassing me and my family, i also gave the bailiffs car reg number plate, the police was so unhelpful and started asking me if i owed moneys, i told them money had nothing to do with the reason why i was calling, neways to cut a long story short no police turned up, the bailiff scarppered after calling me a cunt a few more times along with other obscene language.
I am totally discusted with the way these criminals are acting.
I paid the council tax that i owed the last time the bailiff came to my door which was only a few weeks ago (less there bit on top), i am going to write to the bailiff company and also to the police as they didnt even turn up, and lastly to the council.

[rosix]

I had the bailiff around again at 6am this morning, i told him i did not want to contract with him and his reply was "what the fuck are you talking about" so i stayed calm and kept calling him sir, and repeated that i will notcontract with him, in the end i told him i am calling the police his response was "go on then you cunt" so i called the police and told them that i had a guy at the door who was claiming to be bailiff and was threatening me and harrassing me and my family, i also gave the bailiffs car reg number plate, the police was so unhelpful and started asking me if i owed moneys, i told them money had nothing to do with the reason why i was calling, neways to cut a long story short no police turned up, the bailiff scarppered after calling me a cunt a few more times along with other obscene language.
I am totally discusted with the way these criminals are acting.
I paid the council tax that i owed the last time the bailiff came to my door which was only a few weeks ago (less there bit on top), i am going to write to the bailiff company and also to the police as they didnt even turn up, and lastly to the council.

whoa
you call the police tell them someone was harassing you, being aggressive and threatening you, and they didn't come?

[merlincove]

I had the bailiff around again at 6am this morning, i told him i did not want to contract with him and his reply was "what the fuck are you talking about" so i stayed calm and kept calling him sir, and repeated that i will notcontract with him, in the end i told him i am calling the police his response was "go on then you cunt" so i called the police and told them that i had a guy at the door who was claiming to be bailiff and was threatening me and harrassing me and my family, i also gave the bailiffs car reg number plate, the police was so unhelpful and started asking me if i owed moneys, i told them money had nothing to do with the reason why i was calling, neways to cut a long story short no police turned up, the bailiff scarppered after calling me a cunt a few more times along with other obscene language.
I am totally discusted with the way these criminals are acting.
I paid the council tax that i owed the last time the bailiff came to my door which was only a few weeks ago (less there bit on top), i am going to write to the bailiff company and also to the police as they didnt even turn up, and lastly to the council.


the antiterrorist is a good sorse of info and allows us access to 'tools' that we didn't know that we had.

In his video, dealing with police, he suggests that when approached by a police officer / man / woman, you take out your mobile phone, activate the voice recording setting, hold the phone up so that the officer / man / woman can see it, inform them that you are recording to conversation and start asking questions.

From your own experience m0et i would suggest you start to do this everytime that a balif turns up, get used to how the phone recorder works so you aren't messing about at the time of the call, and record these tossers. They should not, under any circumstances be using verbal abuse and threatening you in this way (obviously) and they are in traeding into very dangerous waters in doing so. Their licence could be taken away, they are abusing your rights to be treated fairly and equally, if you had had this on record, what he was saying, you could get the guy into a whole world of trouble.

We need to start recording these bullies and getting them bang to rights.

i would also be making a call to the police and filling a report that they did not investigate a crime when you were under threat, you can even report the crime of not investigating a crime to the neighbouring conuties / town chief constable as well as to the station you rang.

[yozhik]

neways to cut a long story short no police turned up, the bailiff scarppered after calling me a cunt a few more times along with other obscene language.
I am totally discusted with the way these criminals are acting.


The policy enforcers? The bailiffs? Or both?
:D

On the "Todays News" forum, there is the thread on the topic of Darren Pollard being arrested and charged under a Section 5 offence.

It is essentially a statute that allows for the arrest of a person whose behaviour or words might be considered abusive, insulting or threatening to someone in the vicinity, thereby.
The offender needs to have "intent" or at least "be aware" that his/her behaviour or words are abusive, insulting or threatening.
The bailiff fits both of these requirements; he knew the words were insulting and abusive (he was "aware") and he fully intended them to be abusive, insulting and threatening ("intent").

Now, on reading your account of the uninvited visitor you had this morning, at an unacceptably unsociable time of the morning ... it appears to me as if it was a textbook section 5 offence.

For the policy enforcer to refuse to enforce policy is gross negligence, which is fraud.
They can't have it both ways ... using Section 5 to cover up their own unlawful activity, but then refuse to enforce Section 5 when it is in the interests of protecting the public.
Nowhere in the Act does it express that this legislation is ONLY for the benefit of the policy enforcers for the protection of the policy enforcers.

... and for a man to be outside your house, yelling abuse and using offensive language like "cunt", is most definitely a section 5 offence.

Link with statute details;
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1115940&postcount=522

[merlincove]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8XwehIHSnQ&NR=1

escellent post re sec 5 :D would help mentioning that on the phone and to the balif, let them know that you know your rights ;)

[m0et]

I have sent to letters by email the first being to the bailiff company, the second to the police complaints commision.
Also i have spoken to the council and they have admitted its their fault that the moneys i paid was not put onto last years bill, but they have told me i have to deal with the bailiffs costs (not a problem).
Still awaiting the police to turn up to make sure my family and me are still alive. heh.

[number_6]

mOet, I admire you for keeping calm. My usual response when somebody calls me a cunt is to give them a fucking good hiding.
You must make an official complaint to the police for their inaction. Personally, I would not pay the bailiffs costs.

[merlincove]

I have sent to letters by email the first being to the bailiff company, the second to the police complaints commision.
Also i have spoken to the council and they have admitted its their fault that the moneys i paid was not put onto last years bill, but they have told me i have to deal with the bailiffs costs (not a problem).
Still awaiting the police to turn up to make sure my family and me are still alive. heh.

The balif's costs are not your problem, where is the contract that YOU signed with the balif detailing that you would pay their costs. The contract is between the council and the balif, end of. Have a look at the oft paper i posted earlier.

And good on you for keeping calm, as 6 says, and for complaining.

respect

[m0et]

I added the oft papers within my email to the bailiff.
I have kept calm due to the fact of being confident in my actions thanks to the people on this forum, if you can fight these with their own laws you cant lose.

thanks for the help people keep the good work up.

[godgoo]

If they call again, tell them that you are recording them on your phone I dont know what the law is but lawyers don't like recordings done on digital media. So use a tape. This is why police still use the tape methods.

[merlincove]

I dont know what the law is but lawyers don't like recordings done on digital media. So use a tape. This is why police still use the tape methods.

Yeah, a good point godgoo, but tape rc's are not always as handy as the phone.

i did mean to put in my earlier post, tho forgot, about getting the person you are speaking to's name on record also, ask them to state their name, and if they do not then say their name (it's on their badge that all baliffs should be wearing, and it should be in view - usually pinned to their pigeon chests or around their necks :rolleyes:) say 'i am speaking to a baliff / police officer whos number / name is XYZ. At the end of the day, when confronted with a voice recording machine they are more likely to be polite and at least treat you with a little more decorum / caution. And if they do not you have some evidense to back up your claim that 'baliff / office XYZ,' said these things.

And as to whether it will stand up as evidence, at the point of recording it gives you a serious upper hand, because as the saying goes, 'anything that you say will be taken down as evidence.'

[tom bombadil]

I dont know what the law is but lawyers don't like recordings done on digital media. So use a tape. This is why police still use the tape methods.

Tape evidance is not admisable in court. It is the agreement to the content of the recording that is the evidance.

See here.. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8167533318153586646&hl=en

It has some good info from the cop. The stautes may have a local feel to them but it can be used as a general rule of thumb.



The reason that a tape is used is down to the knowlege on a general level of how tape works by all involved. ie, if the deck jammed, then even the oldest of old dears could see how to fix it. If a file on a card wont load then it is harder to know the program that makes it load.

All recordings can be used as a lever.


Nelly.

[adzboarder]

This letter is excellent, thank you.

Can I add this at the top:

OUR REF: GoFuCkyOuRsElvE5

Just wondering...? :D

I can, surely?

TRY THIS TEMPLATE I FOUND it shits the fuckers right up


Dear Sir/Madam
I refer to your contact dated the 17/04/2009 with reference XXXXXX
XXXXX in which you allege there is an outstanding balance of £109876.00 owed by me to your client XXXXX.
I do not acknowledge any such debt either to your company or to hfo services.
I ask that you no longer process my data and that you cease all further communications as is my right under Section 10, subsection (1) of the Data Protection Act 1998.
You have 21 days from receipt of this letter to state that you comply or intend to comply with my request. Should you not comply or intend to comply, you are to state your reasons as to why.
Please be aware that I will regard any further approaches other than in writing as harassment under S40 of the Administration of Justice Act 1970, and any inappropriate written contact as harassment under that Act or S1 of the Malicious Communications Act 1988.
As such you are now to cease any telephone calls to my residence or workplace . Furthermore, should it be your intention to arrange a "doorstep call", please remember that there is only an implied license under English Common Law for certain people to visit me on my property without express permission; the postman and people asking for directions etc (Armstrong v. Sheppard and Short Ltd [1959] 2 Q.B. per Lord Evershed M.R.).
Please therefore take note that, I revoke license under English Common Law for you, or your representatives to visit me at my property and if you do so without my permission, you will then be liable to damages for a tort of trespass. You would also be conspiring in a trespass if you sent someone to visit me nevertheless.
Should you decide to ignore or continue to contact me about the alleged debt, I would ask that you provide documented proof that a) the debt exists and b) you are acting legally in your instruction for the alleged debt.
Failure to comply with any of the requests in this letter will result in further action being taken by me. This may include and may not solely be restricted to a complaint being made to The Office of Fair Trading and the Credit Services Association with regard to your professional conduct.
Please note that you will receive no further correspondence from me on this matter. The only communication I would now expect to receive from you would be confirmation that the matter is now closed.
This matter is not going to go away and ignoring the problem could potentially make your situation worse and I therefore strongly recommend that you heed the contents of this letter.

[yozhik]

This letter is excellent, thank you.

Can I add this at the top:

OUR REF: GoFuCkyOuRsElvE5

Just wondering...? :D

I can, surely?

Sure you can... you're a living, flesh, blood, human being ... you can do anything :)

However, the more relevant question is; do you need to.

(Hint: check the first statement in my signature :rolleyes: )

[disorder2k8]

haha.. change the letters into a number format, a=1, z=26 etc :cool:

[adzboarder]

Sure you can... you're a living, flesh, blood, human being ... you can do anything :)

However, the more relevant question is; do you need to.

(Hint: check the first statement in my signature :rolleyes: )

My Sovereign self feels the need to!

I wont really, but its very tempting. I'm sending this letter tomorrow for a claim being made against me by a debt collection firm. I'm taking it very seriously actually. Sort of.

[djhooker]

simple solution is to don't answer the door unless you're expecting someone?

[pri01]

Sure you can... you're a living, flesh, blood, human being ... you can do anything :)

However, the more relevant question is; do you need to.

(Hint: check the first statement in my signature :rolleyes: )

I like the third statement in your signature and would very much like to use it in a work dispute but I don't understand the reference source that you have listed. Is the reference an abbreviation for a law journal article?

Thanks:)

[nameless]

Have just reread all the info on this thread and wondered how everyone was getting on.

All good posts, but how do you stop the bailiffs from taking your car when the police are there to help them? You pay up there and then, or lose your car. I have learnt from this site that there is no point in calling the police because it is classed civil, not criminal. None of them take any notice of 'I do not contract with you' or 'I do not consent ..' whether this has been done verbally or in writing; whether to the courts, bailiff, or wherever.

[malvern]

the police are there to keep the peace ..... thats all .( dondaz has this on film , he tells them they are third parties just to keep the peace ....common law not civil.) if you do not contract it's the bailiff who is breaking the law ...and they know it. but thier job is high pressure sales ...they have bourght these contracts and as thirdparties collect ...no collect no wage .


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2PdY4QcEK4



freedom is the grandchildren we are the caretakers

[johnmac666]

ive got the same problems , bailiffs have blocked my sisters drive & tried to take someone elses car that was on the drive, then billed her for not taking it !!
i have rang the bailiffs & trtied to negotiate but they wont listen

[merlincove]

ive got the same problems , bailiffs have blocked my sisters drive & tried to take someone elses car that was on the drive, then billed her for not taking it !!
i have rang the bailiffs & trtied to negotiate but they wont listen

Ask them where is the contract that you / your sister signed to say they could bill her for their negligence. They haven't got one. Report them to the relevant authority:

http://bailiffadviceonline.co.uk/bailifffeecomplaints_comp2.htm

They have acted negligently and unlawfully, you do not have to pay them anything. Bailiffs are notorious bullies, end of. The best way to beat a bully is to stand up to them. You will need to write them a letter asking them for proof of their claim against you.

check out:

http://www.fmotl.com/

read all the ,links and begin to get a know for the concepts.

in your letter to the bailiff, use this link (fmotl.com) and work with the guidelines as noted in respect of proof of claim.

If you speak to them again tell them that you know your rights, and keep telling them this, tell them that you do not understand their position, keep telling them that you do not consent to their authority and jurisdiction and that you do not understand. Don’t be afraid to say ‘I do not understand,’ this takes away their power. Inform them that they acted with negligence and that they acted unlawfully as you have no contractual agreement with them.

Best of luck :D

[johnmac666]

thanks for reply i will read all links/info & read some more, will post when anything else happens ,she was a nervous wreck when this happened & has really put a lot of stress on her, regards john

[johnmac666]

sorry to be a pain people as im new on here having read the links & another visit from the bailiffs today , saying, they will get a locksmith to drilll the locks, but if she coughs up £300 ( out of £ 1000) owed we will refer it back to the council, for a payment plan they wont accept a long term arrangement, can they drill the locks i dont think they can but would like to hear what you say , she also qouted " i do not undertsand & i do not recognise you etc & thats when i he said about £300 & locksmiths but still insisted

regards john

[merlincove]

No, john, a bailiff can absolutely not enter your home without your consent. If consent has been given prior, then they can and will gain entry. Scare tactics again. If the bailiff has a court order, they still need a signature from you / the home owner to be able to enter the property. they will get people to sign their paperwork by lieing and tricking them, DO NOT SIGN ANYTHING A BAILIFF HANDS TO YOU, DO NOT ACCEPT ANY PAPERWORK THEY TRY TO GIVE YOU - keep saying i do not understand. This means that you do not stand under their rule / juristiction.

If your sister is willing to pay, get her to write them a letter saying that she will pay them the money she owes but will not pay them any of their costs. She will need to say how much she is going to pay, do not enter into negotiation, and they have to accept the offer of payment. Until they accept the offer, your sister will need to show good will by putting the money she says she can afford to pay aside each week. Tell them in the letter that she will be doing this.

Read this file and refer to each section that affects you directly:

http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/consumer_credit/oft664.pdf

it is a monster piece of kit to help you know your rights.

Ok, that is if your sister wants to pay.

If she doesn't, then bang those Proof of Claim letters out, conditionally agree (this is VERY important) the amounts stated in the bailiffs correspondence, and ask them to provide all the proof of claim in respect of contracts, bills, are you a human being, can they prove it, do they know what a human being is etc etc from the fmotl.com links previously.

It all depends which route your sister wants to go down. However in asserting that one is a freeman on the land, and working with freeman tools toward an end, in this case being in a position where you are under no jurisdiction to pay council tax, one needs to be a freeman on the land with an active Notice of understanding and Intent and Claim of Right, fully notarised and in place alongside a fee schedule.

Without having a NOUI in place you are still under their jurisdiction and as such you are in agreeance with their codes and laws. The NOUI effectively is you withdrawing your consent to be governed, and without it you agree to be governed. So, if you are not fully up to speed here with a notice in place, I am afraid that you will be governed, but the bailiff is still a third party interloper who has no contract with you and as such you can legally play the Proof of Claim with them. You probably won’t be in that position with the council and / or judge as by default you have agreed to be governed by acquiescence by sheer dint of your birth certificate.

Heavy aint it?

[johnmac666]

No, john, a bailiff can absolutely not enter your home without your consent. If consent has been given prior, then they can and will gain entry. Scare tactics again. If the bailiff has a court order, they still need a signature from you / the home owner to be able to enter the property. they will get people to sign their paperwork by lieing and tricking them, DO NOT SIGN ANYTHING A BAILIFF HANDS TO YOU, DO NOT ACCEPT ANY PAPERWORK THEY TRY TO GIVE YOU - keep saying i do not understand. This means that you do not stand under their rule / juristiction.

If your sister is willing to pay, get her to write them a letter saying that she will pay them the money she owes but will not pay them any of their costs. She will need to say how much she is going to pay, do not enter into negotiation, and they have to accept the offer of payment. Until they accept the offer, your sister will need to show good will by putting the money she says she can afford to pay aside each week. Tell them in the letter that she will be doing this.

Read this file and refer to each section that affects you directly:

http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/consumer_credit/oft664.pdf

it is a monster piece of kit to help you know your rights.

Ok, that is if your sister wants to pay.

If she doesn't, then bang those Proof of Claim letters out, conditionally agree (this is VERY important) the amounts stated in the bailiffs correspondence, and ask them to provide all the proof of claim in respect of contracts, bills, are you a human being, can they prove it, do they know what a human being is etc etc from the fmotl.com links previously.

It all depends which route your sister wants to go down. However in asserting that one is a freeman on the land, and working with freeman tools toward an end, in this case being in a position where you are under no jurisdiction to pay council tax, one needs to be a freeman on the land with an active Notice of understanding and Intent and Claim of Right, fully notarised and in place alongside a fee schedule.

Without having a NOUI in place you are still under their jurisdiction and as such you are in agreeance with their codes and laws. The NOUI effectively is you withdrawing your consent to be governed, and without it you agree to be governed. So, if you are not fully up to speed here with a notice in place, I am afraid that you will be governed, but the bailiff is still a third party interloper who has no contract with you and as such you can legally play the Proof of Claim with them. You probably won’t be in that position with the council and / or judge as by default you have agreed to be governed by acquiescence by sheer dint of your birth certificate.

Heavy aint it?

cheers for the reply, really appreciated

[johnmac666]

one last question before i stand up to these bullies , when the bailiff called he saw her go to a neighbours house & then came to the window of a neighbours house & shouted to her to come & speak to him is this breaking any laws etc ??

[merlincove]

one last question before i stand up to these bullies , when the bailiff called he saw her go to a neighbours house & then came to the window of a neighbours house & shouted to her to come & speak to him is this breaking any laws etc ??

Well, you might like to argue:

A) had your sister shown him some form of identification prior to this happening,

B) had she previously entered into discussion with that bailiff and agreed that she was the person to which he had asked, 'are you mis blah blah blah

if the bailiff did not know who she was, and assumed that she was the person he needed to address, then you may be able to complain in regard to the oft document i posted a link to, there is a sec in there that says the bailiff should not approach a member without acertaining who they are.

Also you could argue that your sister fealt threatend by such action and that his 'shouting her to come and speak with him' embrassed her in front of her neighbour etc.

Other than that, i'm unsure if there is any come back.

[armoured_amazon]

Okay, I just had a bailiff come re: council tax (I didn't even know they were coming, as I think money comes out my account for council tax arrears). Because I wouldn't let her in my flat to do an inventory, she said they are returning with a van. What's the score on them entering? Gawd, I only just sorted my freakin gas bill out.

:mad:

[merlincove]

Hey AA, do a google search, there is loads about bailiffs rights, tho this site i seem to remember is a good one:

http://criminal-bailiffs.angelfire.com/

don't let em in, they have no right of entry unless you consent to it. Don’t sign anything and don’t accept any paperwork – if s/he try to post anythin’ inform them that they do not have permission to litter your property. The first thing that you should do when they call is to tell them that you are recording the conversation, and use your mobile phone to record with – have it ready. Unless you have other recording equipment hehe.

Refer to the oft 664 paper, there is solution in there that states their costs can not be transferred to you unless you agree to them / consent / contract. Tell them that you do not agree to contract with them and will not be paying their inflated and unlawful* costs and read the relevant 664 section out to them.

http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/consumer_credit/oft664.pdf

Ask them to produce contractual evidence entered into by yourself and their company outlining any lawful* obligations and ask them to state what jurisdiction they have over you where equality is a maxim under common law.

That should keep them on their toes.

Golden rule AA, unless you have let them in previously and signed their form, they can not enter. They might tell you that they will attend with a police officer, this is good news for you. Because when you have asked them for a copy of the contract signed by you and their company (they haven’t got one) you can inform the officer that you ‘wish to make a complaint of threat and harassment, as evidentially recorded on your device against the gentlemen,’ you might also like to throw in that they are causing you considerable duress and that they are trespassing and attempting to litter your premises and are in fact ‘causing a breach of the peace.’

If you are up for it tell the officer that it is his duty to keep the peace and to protect and serve, as per his oath under common law, the people of his ward from duress and threat of harassment and ask that he arrests the bailiff for breach of the peace. It will be worth the laugh, believe me.


They’ll be on their toes in no time.



*very important word.

[armoured_amazon]

Hey AA, do a google search, there is loads about bailiffs rights, tho this site i seem to remember is a good one:

http://criminal-bailiffs.angelfire.com/

don't let em in, they have no right of entry unless you consent to it. Don’t sign anything and don’t accept any paperwork – if s/he try to post anythin’ inform them that they do not have permission to litter your property. The first thing that you should do when they call is to tell them that you are recording the conversation, and use your mobile phone to record with – have it ready. Unless you have other recording equipment hehe.

Refer to the oft 664 paper, there is solution in there that states their costs can not be transferred to you unless you agree to them / consent / contract. Tell them that you do not agree to contract with them and will not be paying their inflated and unlawful* costs and read the relevant 664 section out to them.

http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/consumer_credit/oft664.pdf

Ask them to produce contractual evidence entered into by yourself and their company outlining any lawful* obligations and ask them to state what jurisdiction they have over you where equality is a maxim under common law.

That should keep them on their toes.

Golden rule AA, unless you have let them in previously and signed their form, they can not enter. They might tell you that they will attend with a police officer, this is good news for you. Because when you have asked them for a copy of the contract signed by you and their company (they haven’t got one) you can inform the officer that you ‘wish to make a complaint of threat and harassment, as evidentially recorded on your device against the gentlemen,’ you might also like to throw in that they are causing you considerable duress and that they are trespassing and attempting to litter your premises and are in fact ‘causing a breach of the peace.’

If you are up for it tell the officer that it is his duty to keep the peace and to protect and serve, as per his oath under common law, the people of his ward from duress and threat of harassment and ask that he arrests the bailiff for breach of the peace. It will be worth the laugh, believe me.


They’ll be on their toes in no time.



*very important word.

Thank you :)

Back to the CAB I go tomorrow! :rolleyes: She tried to step into the main hall, but I wouldn't let her in; luckily, I'd locked my own front door, as I wasnt expecting anyone, except postal delivery, and all my windows are shut. I'm reading the pdf posted earlier in the thread atm. What about my car? Shall I move it? And can they trespass in my absence?

I have no documents saying they were coming. The only reason I didn't claim council tax/HB/other benefits is because last time, they accused me of fraud, because I was doing part-time work. I'd never hidden the fact I did P/T work, and declared it on my returns and fortnightly paperwork at the JobCentre, but they still hauled me in anyway. Perhaps I cut my nose off to spite my face by not claiming again, but I didn't want to go through that again. Fookers.

I'm glad I didn't let them in, phew.

[merlincove]

Thank you :)

Back to the CAB I go tomorrow! :rolleyes: She tried to step into the main hall, but I wouldn't let her in; luckily, I'd locked my own front door, as I wasnt expecting anyone, except postal delivery, and all my windows are shut. I'm reading the pdf posted earlier in the thread atm. What about my car? Shall I move it? And can they trespass in my absence?

I have no documents saying they were coming. The only reason I didn't claim council tax/HB/other benefits is because last time, they accused me of fraud, because I was doing part-time work. I'd never hidden the fact I did P/T work, and declared it on my returns and fortnightly paperwork at the JobCentre, but they still hauled me in anyway. Perhaps I cut my nose off to spite my face by not claiming again, but I didn't want to go through that again. Fookers.

I'm glad I didn't let them in, phew.

That pdf is invaluable, as you will see :D

No they can't trespass if you are not in - provided they can't gain entry through an open window / door.

Yes move your car, leave it at a friends house, just around the corner, out of the way - they'll nab it if it is worth owt :mad: it is easy pickings for them.

[armoured_amazon]

Okay, so I found this:
http://www.insolvencyhelpline.co.uk/debt_factsheets/bailiffs_and_council_tax.php#5

How do I stop the bailiffs?
· You can try to make an arrangement to pay the debt back at a rate that you can afford. You can offer the money directly to the bailiffs, although it is easier to get them to accept your offer if they have never been into your home. Always get a receipt for any money you pay.

I asked how much instalments would be, and the bailiff said they won't make arrangements. Could go in my favour.

GET ADVICE FIRST, bailiffs law is very complex, and even if you think that what they have done is unfair, they may still be acting within the law.
· From October 1998 bailiffs have to have a certificate granted by a court to collect council tax. A complaint from you can help get the certificate withdrawn. Ask your local county court if they have a form for making a complaint. If not, write in to the court manager with details. The court will hold a hearing and can cancel the bailiff's certificate, order compensation and order return of the goods. A bailiff can be fined for collecting without a certificate. However, even if the bailiff's certificate is cancelled, it continues to have effect for any previous possession agreement unless the judge orders otherwise.

Aside from her badge, she didn't show me any documentation. She had a clipboard but didn't let me see anything on it.

· You can complain to the magistrates' court, and there have been cases recently where the debt has, in effect, been written off when it has been proved that bailiffs have acted illegally. This is done by making a complaint and asking for a hearing. The court can order return of the goods or compensation.
· You should complain to the council as the bailiffs are acting as their agent. They can ask the bailiffs to look at your complaint and change their procedures. If the council won't help you could talk to your local councillor who may be prepared to take your complaint up with the council.
· You can ask the Local Government Ombudsman to look at your complaint if the council refuse to help you. The contact details are in "Useful Addresses".

So, I'm off to the CAB tomorrow, do I ask them to get me in the Magistrate's Court?

BAILIFFS CHARGES
You may be able to complain about bailiffs charges. The amounts they are allowed to charge for council tax and poll tax are set out in the schedule on page 5. You are entitled to make a written request for a full breakdown of the fees the bailiffs have added on to your debt. If you feel you have been charged too much you can complain in writing to the council and the bailiffs. You may be able to ask the county court to look at the charges for you see below. Phone us for advice .
You can find out what is 'reasonable' by making enquiries on a local basis. For example, if you have been charged £80 for attendance with a van, and local enquires indicate you could hire a van for a morning for £40 this is clearly unreasonable, especially as it is likely that bailiffs will be visiting several properties at once, and many companies own their own vans.
The bailiffs should only charge the fee for entering into a walking possession agreement if the person named on the original liability order signs the agreement.
In the first instance, complain to the bailiffs themselves. You can tell them you know their charges are excessive and that you will be taking further action if the charges are not reduced to the levels shown in the schedule.
· You can then complain to the council as the bailiffs are acting as agents of the council. There have been recent cases that have been taken back in front of the magistrates' court over these issues, with the result that the councils have been forbidden to take any further recovery action, or in other words, the debt has been written off. So it IS worth complaining.
· You can apply to the county court for the costs to be checked. An application for a detailed assessment of the charges needs to be made within three months of receiving the bailiff's bill. They will decide if the charges are excessive or not. There is a fee to pay to the court for this application. If the court decides not reduce the bill at least 20% you can be liable for the bailiffs firm's court costs. You need legal advice first. Phone us for advice.
· Some private firms of bailiffs belong to The Association of Civil Enforcement Agencies or The Enforcement Services Association. The details are in "Useful Addresses". You can complain to a trade association as well as the council. Both trade associations follow a set complaints procedure. Before complaining find out which association your bailiff firm belongs to. We can send you further details. Phone us for advice.

If I can do the previous, then I should be able to claim this back. Am I right? :)

[theoneandonly]

Okay, so I found this:
http://www.insolvencyhelpline.co.uk/debt_factsheets/bailiffs_and_council_tax.php#5

I asked how much instalments would be, and the bailiff said they won't make arrangements. Could go in my favour.



If you asked them about installments then it is my understanding that you have admitted to there being a debt owing to them...

not sure though maybe someone else will have more info on this?...

[armoured_amazon]

If you asked them about installments then it is my understanding that you have admitted to there being a debt owing to them...

not sure though maybe someone else will have more info on this?...

I didn't ask, per se, I kinda worded it as in what was it about and that I didn't know anything about it as I hadn't received any documents regarding said debt, and was it instalments. She said something about coming upstairs, and I said "Well, I don't know anything about the debt and I don't let strangers in my home." I tried to stay as vague as possible.

[theoneandonly]

I didn't ask, per se, I kinda worded it as in what was it about and that I didn't know anything about it as I hadn't received any documents regarding said debt, and was it instalments. She said something about coming upstairs, and I said "Well, I don't know anything about the debt and I don't let strangers in my home." I tried to stay as vague as possible.

I seee, thats alright then.. i really wish you well.. keep posting updates too! :)

[armoured_amazon]

I seee, thats alright then.. i really wish you well.. keep posting updates too! :)

Will do. Hopefully, it'll come in useful for anyone else finding themselves in similar predicament. :)

[zarah]

My sister had trouble with bailiffs resulting from council tax non-payment, and they used all sorts of tricks to try and get her to pay the outstanding arrears.

You can admit liability without having to make full payment. If you go to this website

http://bailiffadviceonline.co.uk/index.htm

You'll find lots of useful information, including letter templates. You have to pay a tenner for the downloads but Ive already paid it and know the password, so if you pm me I'll tell it to you.

My understanding is that you are within your rights to tell them how much you can afford, and if they refuse to take it you refer it back to the council. Never, ever let them in, and although I wouldn't move my car, if you feel worried just move it for a while.

[zarah]

Forgot to say, if you wanted to push it..you could write to the baiiff requesting validation of the debt, verification of the claim the bailiff has against you and a copy of the contract which binds you both. I think that template is on the site too.

[pri01]

I don't have probs with baliffs at the moment but I anticipate their arrival at some point. If I register my car in my daughters name can they lay claim to it?

[armoured_amazon]

My sister had trouble with bailiffs resulting from council tax non-payment, and they used all sorts of tricks to try and get her to pay the outstanding arrears.

You can admit liability without having to make full payment. If you go to this website

http://bailiffadviceonline.co.uk/index.htm

You'll find lots of useful information, including letter templates. You have to pay a tenner for the downloads but Ive already paid it and know the password, so if you pm me I'll tell it to you.

My understanding is that you are within your rights to tell them how much you can afford, and if they refuse to take it you refer it back to the council. Never, ever let them in, and although I wouldn't move my car, if you feel worried just move it for a while.

Forgot to say, if you wanted to push it..you could write to the baiiff requesting validation of the debt, verification of the claim the bailiff has against you and a copy of the contract which binds you both. I think that template is on the site too.

Thanks so much for the info. Will PM you. :)

[armoured_amazon]

K, I fired off a letter (thanks, Zarah!) advising them of my stance and inclusion in 'vulnerable situations' category, as contained within the National Standards for Enforcement Agents, and we'll see what happens next. I'm going to see my doctor on Tuesday to keep him updated, and perhaps I shall accept his continued offer of ADs.

CAB was closed, quelle surprise!

[merlincove]

Well done AA, i should have pointed those letters out also, as i sue similar templates (although more freeman based) myself, and they all add strength to your armour :D

Respect

[armoured_amazon]

Well done AA, i should have pointed those letters out also, as i sue similar templates (although more freeman based) myself, and they all add strength to your armour :D

Respect

Thanks, MC :)

I'm going to do the freeman thing as soon I know it solidly. Soon as I extricate myself from the so-called 'country', United Kingdom, and go back to being a living being on the land, the better. :)

[wakeupworld]

Check the video on this website. It`s the video on the home page on follwing link.
http://getoutofdebtfree.org/

There it is explained how to deal with debts/debt collectors and need not involve baliffs at all.

Good luck.

[merlincove]

I don't have probs with baliffs at the moment but I anticipate their arrival at some point. If I register my car in my daughters name can they lay claim to it?

As far as i am aware, no they can not take someone elses property in recovery of debt, they can only take the debters property.

They can not take your property unless you consent to them doing so - i seem to remember that vehicles are seperate to though, and will be removed with or without consent.

You may be asked however to show proof of who owns the vehicle, however, and may have to show the v5 (showing registered keeper - it does not declare anyone as the owner) as well as proof of purchase etc.

If Bailiffs do remove vehicles in payment of debt, they will typically sell a vehicle in auction for much less than it is valued and attempt to charge the debtor a fee for removal, storage and auction. So a £1000 car might sell for as little as £100, the bailiff will then bill you for removal expenses which could be upwards of £250, storage at £X per night and then the auction fees on top, so a £800 council tax bill will become £1500 in no time with their additional costs etc - and you have no car!

They are robbing bastards.

[dreamweaver]

If Bailiffs do remove vehicles in payment of debt, they will typically sell a vehicle in auction for much less than it is valued and attempt to charge the debtor a fee for removal, storage and auction. So a £1000 car might sell for as little as £100, the bailiff will then bill you for removal expenses which could be upwards of £250, storage at £X per night and then the auction fees on top, so a £800 council tax bill will become £1500 in no time with their additional costs etc - and you have no car!

They are robbing bastards.

Absolutely. And as zarah says never, ever let them in. They will tell any lie that they can to gain entry, for example by pretending to have powers they don't have or asking if they can come in for you to "fill in some paperwork". Once they are inside the property, they can make a "walking possession order", which means they can force entry on subsequent visits. So people should never let them in!

Pri01, if you do give your belongings to someone else, especially a car, then the bailiffs will want to see proof. They've heard all the stories of items being rented or belonging to someone else so you do need paperwork.

[armoured_amazon]

I think there's a bailiff outside...

Some dude knocked yesterday - I never answer the door if I'm not expecting someone - and left an envelope in the main hall (there are two apartments in the house). Same guy is hovering round outside in his car and he's posted a duplicate today. I didn't open either, nor have I taken them into my property. All I can think is it's Intrum Justitia over my water rates. And he fooking woke me up. I will pay my water rates when the water board stop charging me - a single woman in a flat - the same as they charge a family of 6. And when they stop putting/allowing chemicals and hormones in my water. And when the water provider stops being a monopoly and allows me a choice.

Anyhoo, my point was, do I write NO CONTRACT - RETURN TO SENDER on these envelopes, even though there's no way of really knowing who the sender is?

[rumpelstilzchen]

I will pay my water rates when the water board stop charging me - a single woman in a flat - the same as they charge a family of 6. And when they stop putting/allowing chemicals and hormones in my water. And when the water provider stops being a monopoly and allows me a choice.

You object to chemicals you claim are being put in your water, and consider that a reason why not to pay, but you continue to use the water? You can't object that much to chemicals if you still drink the stuff.
You do have a choice. Go to the shops and buy bottled water, or collect it yourself from a stream.

[armoured_amazon]

I found these, what do you guys think? :)

Send these notices to debt collectors , part one and part two for closure of matter....

John: Doe
C/o Line 1
Line 2
Line 3
Near [POST CODE]
Non domestic Without the UK

Bullyboy Collectors Ltd
Self Assumed Authority Street
Ransom Park
Confiscate City
POST CODE

Your Ref: No contract
Your Ref: MR JOHN DOE

Recorded Delivery No: (as on ‘signed for’ post label) Page 1 of 2

(Date Here)

Notice of Rejection and Return of Unrecognised Paperwork
Notice to Agent is Notice to Principal. Notice to Principal is Notice to Agent

Dear Bullyboy Collectors Ltd

Your paperwork dated 00 Month 00 is returned not recognised. The reasons for which are as follows:

1. Your paperwork appears to be indicating that some sort of contract exists between ‘Bullyboy Collectors Ltd’ and a STRAWMAN, legal fiction PERSONality referred to in your paperwork as ‘MR JOHN DOE’, not me.

2. It appears ‘Bullyboy Collectors Ltd’ is acting as 3rd party interloper for ‘YOU OWE US LTD’

3. Your paperwork is not signed/ signed with an electronically generated image.

In order for me to act lawfully and consent to be compelled to perform in any alleged contract I must ask you to provide the following clarification and reserve all my rights not to be bound by any unrevealed contracts.

a) Proof of a valid signed contract between ‘Bullyboy Collectors Ltd’ and MR JOHN DOE
b) Proof that I ever gave consent to stand under any assumed authority of ‘Bullyboy Collectors Ltd’
c) Proof which demonstrates that your signature is real and written by human hand. Not a copy of a signature re created electronically on paper which invalidates a commercial instrument.
d) Proof of a written order placed upon you by me which requires payment for services rendered.
e) Proof of a signed Bill for your services duly presented by ‘Bullyboy Collectors Ltd’ written out to me.
f) Proof of your implied authority over me gained knowingly and willingly from me.

Unless the proofs requested herein are forthcoming not later than Day/Month/ Year I will take the knowing that you cannot provide the necessary proofs and that by your failure to provide proof you agree that no contract exists and the matter is considered closed.

All responses must be delivered by Royal Mail Recorded Delivery or will not be recognised.

Any paperwork sent by you in response to this Notice which does not contain the specific details requested will be returned to you clearly marked REFUSED FOR CAUSE: NO CONTRACT

Sincerely, without ill will, vexation or frivolity

By: John

All Rights Reserved - Without Recourse - Non-Assumpsit
Errors & Omissions Excepted

Enc: Your Original paperwork

I'm not quite sure whether the bit after 'By:John' is meant to be included - I'm thinking it's just tags where the authors have added stuff Also, I should address myself as Armoured of the family Amazon, right? What's the non-domestic bit in the address - is that just their example or something important re: my strawman? :)

Notice 2

John: Doe
C/o Line 1
Line 2
Line 3
Near [POST CODE]
Non domestic Without the UK

Bullyboy Collectors Ltd
Self Assumed Authority Street
Ransom Park
Confiscate City
POST CODE

Your Ref: No Contract

Recorded Delivery Ref No: (as on ‘signed for’ postage label)

(Date Here)

Notice of Dishonour and Closure of Matter

Dear Bullyboy Collections Ltd

You have failed to respond in substance to the previous Notice served upon you dated Day/Month/Year.

The Notice clearly stated:

“Unless the proofs required are forthcoming not later than Day/Month/ Year I will take the knowing that you cannot provide the necessary proofs and that by your own failure to provide proof you agree that no contract exists and the matter is considered closed.”

The matter is now closed.

Sincerely, without ill will, vexation or frivolity

By: John

All Rights Reserved - Without Recourse - Non-Assumpsit
Errors & Omissions Excepted

Oops, forgot to add the link:
http://landofthefree.co.uk/site/component/content/article/1-latest-news/63-template-of-notice-to-debt-coillectors

[steven1]

armoured amazon
i have the perfect solution to stop the bailiffs coming to your door.
Contact the water board and ask them to cut off your supply.
why on earth would you want all that contaminated water flowing into your property.

get it sorted ASAP. you dont know what harm its doing to your skin and body.

hypocriticalharry*

[armoured_amazon]

armoured amazon
i have the perfect solution to stop the bailiffs coming to your door.
Contact the water board and ask them to cut off your supply.
why on earth would you want all that contaminated water flowing into your property.

get it sorted ASAP. you dont know what harm its doing to your skin and body.

hypocriticalharry*

Aren't you just?

Access to clean water is 'human right', says UN

By Edith Lederer

Friday, 30 July 2010

The UN General Assembly has declared access to clean water and sanitation a "human right" in a resolution that more than 40 countries, including the US and Britain, did not support.

The resolution adopted by the 192-member world body expresses deep concern that an estimated 884 million people lack access to safe drinking water and more than 2.6 billion people do not have access to basic sanitation.

UN anti-poverty goals adopted by world leaders in 2000 call for the proportion of people without access to safe drinking water and basic sanitation to be halved by 2015.

The non-binding resolution, sponsored by Bolivia, was approved by a vote of 122-0 with 41 abstentions, including the US and many Western nations, though Belgium, Italy, Germany, Spain and Norway all supported it.

Bolivia's representative said many rights have been recognised, including the rights to health, life, and education. He said the Bolivian government introduced a resolution on the right to adequate water and sanitation because contaminated water causes more than 3.5 million deaths every year – more than any war.

American diplomat John Sammis told the General Assembly that the US "is deeply committed to finding solutions to our water challenges", but he said the resolution "describes a right to water and sanitation in a way that is not reflective of existing international law."

What's in your drinking water?

Many prominent scientists are alarmed by the content of some drinking water and actively seek to change the processes involved. The practice of making water safe to drink actually involves adding large amounts of extremely poisonous chemicals to it. Key scientists are now providing evidence that long-term ingestion of small amounts of chemicals like these could be the cause of some major health problems.

Here is a list of just a few of the chemicals routinely added to our water supply:

* Liquified chlorine
* Fluorosilicic acid
* Aluminium sulphate
* Calcium hydroxide
* Sodium silicofluoride

Even if the water leaves the source in a relatively clean state, don't forget that your water travels through pipes, which may have been underground since Victorian times. It is almost impossible for the water not to become contaminated by something undesirable.



Contaminants in Tap Water

Tap water is treated with a large number of chemicals in order to kill bacteria and other microorganisms. In addition, it may contain other undesirable contaminants like toxic metal salts, hormones and pesticides, or it may become contaminated by chemicals or microbes within pipes (e.g. lead, bacteria, protozoa).


Typical Tap Water Content:

* Chlorine
* Fluorine compounds
* Trihalomethanes (THMs)
* Salts of:
o arsenic
o radium
o aluminium
o copper
o lead
o mercury
o cadmium
o barium
* Hormones
* Nitrates
* Pesticides
http://www.freshlysqueezedwater.org.uk/watercontent.htm

[steven1]

and its provided to you
You have a choice if you want it or not.
Do you drink your tap water?

[armoured_amazon]

and its provided to you
You have a choice if you want it or not.
Do you drink your tap water?

No I don't have a choice, we have ONE provider. Your questions are not answers to the questions I posed in my post, thus are unnecessary for me to address. Have a nice day!

[steven1]

back at you.
you keep taking water you dont want and refusing to pay for it.

Honorable to the last.

H2O*

[armoured_amazon]

back at you.
you keep taking water you dont want and refusing to pay for it.

Honorable to the last.

H2O*

Gosh, you're stupid. Or a shill. Or both. It is my RIGHT as a human being to have access to water. I do NOT submit to a dictatorship and yet have no choice who supplies my water. I am frugal with usage and yet am charged for large families usage. My water supply is tainted with hormones and chemicals. YOU are either a shill or an out and out dickhead if you are happy about that. As before, I'm going with both. While I am enslaved by a system that stole me at birth, I will not be a subservient and meek slave.

Now how about you piss off if you have nothing helpful to say.

[armoured_amazon]

Yay, just remembered this forum has a Block function.

*dumps stupid n00b in the trash*

[steven1]

It is my RIGHT as a human being to have access to water.

And its the providers right to be paid for supplying it to you.

helpful???
I gave you the solution to your problem.
No water no bailiffs simples.

but thats not what you came here for is it.
Freeman on the land is about taking responsibility for yourself not dodging paying your way in life.

grow up and start acting like an adult rather than a kid nicking apples and hiding behind a wall.

[theabominablephenomenon]

And its the providers right to be paid for supplying it to you.

helpful???
I gave you the solution to your problem.
No water no bailiffs simples.

but thats not what you came here for is it.
Freeman on the land is about taking responsibility for yourself not dodging paying your way in life.

grow up and start acting like an adult rather than a kid nicking apples and hiding behind a wall.
Ok so our water is poisoned - that doesn't matter, we should pay for it.

Most bottled water is also poisoned with fluoride - you have to pay for that as well. Great choice.

There is a monopoly on water supplies - cut them off so we don't pay.

So where do we get our water from?

Can we just go and start building our own reservoirs?
Nope. Rules you see.

Would we be allowed to start up any form of pump from a local river and build our own sewage / waste?
Nope. Rules you see.

You can catch water in water butts but there is often not enough rain for the amount of water required to live, so without the source - ie reservoir - which is monopolised - you cannot have it.

So you see why it is all really stitched up and why people want the fuck out of this stupid backwards system that treats us all like fucking rats in an animal lab.

I suggest it is you that needs to grow up and have a look at what is going on without being so pig ignorant of why other people don't want anything to do with this system anymore, because it is nothing more than a con.
Monopolising vital supply for the profit of a greedy few?
Get fucking real.

People in Devon are being forced to find £100 per month and more for water - and there is a big lack of jobs. So people should just go without eh?

I suppose you think it good for the big companies to be buying up swathes of land in Ethiopia, their only fertile land - for profit that the people who live there will never benefit from; just because they owe some debt notes - which have only been derived from unpayable interest rates.

WAKE UP STEVEN1 THE WORLD IS A FUCKING CON.
and yet you still wonder why people are trying to find ways out......
just continue your petty arguments about 'consent' like it really matters.

[ipso facto]

I found these, what do you guys think? :)



I'm not quite sure whether the bit after 'By:John' is meant to be included - I'm thinking it's just tags where the authors have added stuff Also, I should address myself as Armoured of the family Amazon, right? What's the non-domestic bit in the address - is that just their example or something important re: my strawman? :)



Oops, forgot to add the link:
http://landofthefree.co.uk/site/component/content/article/1-latest-news/63-template-of-notice-to-debt-coillectors

That's right - try to bore them to death :D

[ipso facto]

Ok so our water is poisoned - that doesn't matter, we should pay for it.

Most bottled water is also poisoned with fluoride - you have to pay for that as well. Great choice.

There is a monopoly on water supplies - cut them off so we don't pay.

So where do we get our water from?

Can we just go and start building our own reservoirs?
Nope. Rules you see.

Would we be allowed to start up any form of pump from a local river and build our own sewage / waste?
Nope. Rules you see.

You can catch water in water butts but there is often not enough rain for the amount of water required to live, so without the source - ie reservoir - which is monopolised - you cannot have it.

So you see why it is all really stitched up and why people want the fuck out of this stupid backwards system that treats us all like fucking rats in an animal lab.

I suggest it is you that needs to grow up and have a look at what is going on without being so pig ignorant of why other people don't want anything to do with this system anymore, because it is nothing more than a con.
Monopolising vital supply for the profit of a greedy few?
Get fucking real.

People in Devon are being forced to find £100 per month and more for water - and there is a big lack of jobs. So people should just go without eh?

I suppose you think it good for the big companies to be buying up swathes of land in Ethiopia, their only fertile land - for profit that the people who live there will never benefit from; just because they owe some debt notes - which have only been derived from unpayable interest rates.

WAKE UP STEVEN1 THE WORLD IS A FUCKING CON.
and yet you still wonder why people are trying to find ways out......
just continue your petty arguments about 'consent' like it really matters.

Listen rain water falls from sky, rain water goes into reservoirs, rain water goes through processing plant to be cleaned, clean water comes through tap, we drink said water, we pee said water, you flush with clean water, clean water now contaminated is mixed with it, pee stinky water sits and evaporates, returns to the sky and the cycles starts again!!! Sooooo, do you want to drink other people's pee OR have a company clean the water for you to drink? That's why we pay water bills because they have the technology. Failing that you have every right to go to the river, mountain, stream, local fishing lake whatever and get what you need.

[theabominablephenomenon]

Listen rain water falls from sky, rain water goes into reservoirs, rain water goes through processing plant to be cleaned, clean water comes through tap, we drink said water, we pee said water, you flush with clean water, clean water now contaminated is mixed with it, pee stinky water sits and evaporates, returns to the sky and the cycles starts again!!! Sooooo, do you want to drink other people's pee OR have a company clean the water for you to drink? That's why we pay water bills because they have the technology. Failing that you have every right to go to the river, mountain, stream, local fishing lake whatever and get what you need.
And this comes from a self proclaimed 'free thinker.'
Methinks you have been conditioned.
Probably the water.
:rolleyes:

[ipso facto]

And this comes from a self proclaimed 'free thinker.'
Methinks you have been conditioned.
Probably the water.
:rolleyes:

and you don't drink it I suppose :D

[theabominablephenomenon]

and you don't drink it I suppose :D
Choice over the properties within the water would be nice instead of the poison don't you think?
How about it being H2O?

Have you any idea what fluoride does both to your body and mind?
TPTB have got it totally sown up.
You cannot escape it.
The only course of action and that which will hurt them most
is not to comply with what they want which is your money.

If you want your kids drinking this shit that is up to you.
You are helping poison them.
The effects are severe and irreversible. Some are more susceptible than others.

[armoured_amazon]

Choice over the properties within the water would be nice instead of the poison don't you think?
How about it being H2O?

Have you any idea what fluoride does both to your body and mind?
TPTB have got it totally sown up.
You cannot escape it.
The only course of action and that which will hurt them most
is not to comply with what they want which is your money.

If you want your kids drinking this shit that is up to you.
You are helping poison them.
The effects are severe and irreversible. Some are more susceptible than others.

Amen! ;)

[rumpelstilzchen]

Choice over the properties within the water would be nice instead of the poison don't you think?
How about it being H2O?

Have you any idea what fluoride does both to your body and mind?
TPTB have got it totally sown up.
You cannot escape it.
The only course of action and that which will hurt them most
is not to comply with what they want which is your money.

If you want your kids drinking this shit that is up to you.
You are helping poison them.
The effects are severe and irreversible. Some are more susceptible than others.
Good avoidance of the question, which was:
and you don't drink it I suppose?
So do you drink it?
You accuse ipso facto of being conditioned because of drinking the water, if that is the case surely you have too, haven't you?

[theabominablephenomenon]

Amen! ;)
These people!
:rolleyes:

[theabominablephenomenon]

Good avoidance of the question, which was:

So do you drink it?
You accuse ipso facto of being conditioned because of drinking the water, if that is the case surely you have too, haven't you?
Obviously the point about Ipso being conditioned by the water was sarcasm Rumpel,:rolleyes:
and if you read my statement carefully you will see the words,
'you cannot avoid it.'
It may not be classed as a direct answer, but it is self evident.

PS, it is the content of the problem - not the minor discrepancy that all you anti-FMOL are missing out on.

[rumpelstilzchen]

and if you read my statement carefully you will see the words,
'you cannot avoid it.'


Humans appear to have managed before there were any water companies.

[theabominablephenomenon]

Humans appear to have managed before there were any water companies.
Correct.
However, we are now born into a society and are forced to obey the rules without choice, and hence become dependent upon the society without even realising it from birth.
Undoing that conditioning/reliance is the problem if you find that the society you live in is shafting you up the gary glitter.
Hence the birth of groups such as FMOTL....

[rumpelstilzchen]

So why don't you collect your own water?

[theabominablephenomenon]

So why don't you collect your own water?
Bloody hell Rumpel you have to be walked through everything step by step, even then you don't get it!
The answer was in my original post.
It is simply not enough to run a household.

I would like to build a reservoir,
however I am not allowed as there is one near me already,
run by the water board and stitched up by the freemasons so
we could not ever have it any other way.
Rather oppressive don't you think to be forced to rely on
water that is both expensive and purposefully poisonous?

The solution is for the people to take over the water board and give it back to the people so they pay for only what it costs to run - at least.
There is NO point at all in some greedy bastards profiting from our most needed supply.

Now this is detracting from the thread which is about bailiffs.


It shouldn't need explaining why people do not want to pay for water or utilities anymore. This is the David Icke Forum which is about finding freedom, not remaining a slave to the system!

[armoured_amazon]

Bloody hell Rumpel you have to be walked through everything step by step, even then you don't get it!
The answer was in my original post.
It is simply not enough to run a household.

I would like to build a reservoir,
however I am not allowed as there is one near me already,
run by the water board and stitched up by the freemasons so
we could not ever have it any other way.
Rather oppressive don't you think to be forced to rely on
water that is both expensive and purposefully poisonous?

The solution is for the people to take over the water board and give it back to the people so they pay for only what it costs to run - at least.
There is NO point at all in some greedy bastards profiting from our most needed supply.

Now this is detracting from the thread which is about bailiffs.


It shouldn't need explaining why people do not want to pay for water or utilities anymore. This is the David Icke Forum which is about finding freedom, not remaining a slave to the system!

Word up. There's nothing like wilful ignorance, hence why I won't be cowed by companies pretending I have a contract with them. Some know they are slaves and yet defend their masters. That's wilful ignorance, imo, and worse than naivete. My strawman is in the process of being slain.

[rumpelstilzchen]

Bloody hell Rumpel you have to be walked through everything step by step, even then you don't get it!
The answer was in my original post.
It is simply not enough to run a household.

So because you have chosen to live your life in a particular way, got a house, got a family, it is up to others now to provide you with water?
It was your choice. When taking on a household you were aware, just the same as the OP that there are charges for water. If you didn't agree, why did you continue in your actions?


Now this is detracting from the thread which is about bailiffs.

No it isn't.
I can understand when people are having trouble paying bills they need assistance. But when they look for any excuse to not pay for a service, but continue to use that service, even bemoaning the quality of that very service, I can understand why bailiffs are used.

It shouldn't need explaining why people do not want to pay for water or utilities anymore.
So you think everything should be free?
Who is going to pay for it? Do you think water is supplied at no cost?
This is the David Icke Forum which is about finding freedom, not remaining a slave to the system!
Where does it say the David Icke forum is about finding a way to not pay for things you use? Does Icke not pay for water?
Why do you say if you pay for something you've used it makes you a slave?
Slave seems to be a favourite word used around here. Normally by people who are looking to get out of paying for things.

[armoured_amazon]

I can understand when people are having trouble paying bills they need assistance. But when they look for any excuse to not pay for a service, but continue to use that service, even bemoaning the quality of that very service, I can understand why bailiffs are used.

I don't have the money to pay for other people's water usage - even if I did, I would not pay a company supplying a toxic product - so as a woman living alone, I will not pay rates that apply to a family of six. And I have the human right to choice of provider.

So you think everything should be free?
Who is going to pay for it? Do you think water is supplied at no cost?

See above.

Why do you say if you pay for something you've used it makes you a slave?
Slave seems to be a favourite word used around here. Normally by people who are looking to get out of paying for things.

When water supplied is fit for my consumption and charges are fair, I will happily pay for services rendered.

[rumpelstilzchen]

When water supplied is fit for my consumption and charges are fair, I will happily pay for services rendered.

But in the meantime you'll continue to consume it.

Best of luck when the bailiffs call next time.

[ipso facto]

Choice over the properties within the water would be nice instead of the poison don't you think?
How about it being H2O?

Have you any idea what fluoride does both to your body and mind?
TPTB have got it totally sown up.
You cannot escape it.
The only course of action and that which will hurt them most
is not to comply with what they want which is your money.

If you want your kids drinking this shit that is up to you.
You are helping poison them.
The effects are severe and irreversible. Some are more susceptible than others.

Am I bothered? You assume I drink tap water - actually I only drink flavoured bottled water and use bottled water for tea making etc. I choose to, my family are not particularly bothered. I only use the water to bathe. You say that you don't get enough water in a water butt for a family - why don't you filter the water butt water for drinking and then use the supplied water for bathing etc. Then it never has to go into your system. Try this link, it may help you make a decision. NO ONE IS FORCING YOU TO DRINK THE WATER.

http://blog.sustainablog.org/diy-clay-water-filtration-system/

The knowledge might be useful for Freeman Valley.

[ipso facto]

When water supplied is fit for my consumption and charges are fair, I will happily pay for services rendered. There's a great link in my post :D

[free_thinker]

Gosh, you're stupid. Or a shill. Or both. It is my RIGHT as a human being to have access to water. I do NOT submit to a dictatorship and yet have no choice who supplies my water. I am frugal with usage and yet am charged for large families usage. My water supply is tainted with hormones and chemicals. YOU are either a shill or an out and out dickhead if you are happy about that. As before, I'm going with both. While I am enslaved by a system that stole me at birth, I will not be a subservient and meek slave.

Now how about you piss off if you have nothing helpful to say.

Could you get a metre fitted, not always possible but you get charged more on how much you use rather than a flat rate.

Also a couple of bricks in toilet cistern or an inflated balloon can drastically reduce your water usage, showers instead of baths.


Whilst it is acceptable to complain of water charges etc there are millions of people in the world who would think they had died and gone to heaven to be able to turn a tap, in their own home, and get clean potable water, water that doesn't carry the risk of various diseases and you don't have to fag 3 miles to collect.

All well and good to complain over whatever you want, by no means am I saying you can't but, also recognise that many, many millions of people would gladly swap places in a heartbeat with you to have safe, clean water at the turn of a tap.

Like most things in life, it's all relative.

[armoured_amazon]

Could you get a metre fitted, not always possible but you get charged more on how much you use rather than a flat rate.

I (and my neighbour) have asked several times, but they always come back with some rubbish about the house not being partitioned properly, flat rate area, any excuse blah blah. Both she and I live alone and we DO have separate water pipes, so they're full of it.

Also a couple of bricks in toilet cistern or an inflated balloon can drastically reduce your water usage, showers instead of baths.

Yeah, I'll do the cistern thing. I only take showers anyway and rarely drink the water because it tastes too chemically.

Whilst it is acceptable to complain of water charges etc there are millions of people in the world who would think they had died and gone to heaven to be able to turn a tap, in their own home, and get clean potable water, water that doesn't carry the risk of various diseases and you don't have to fag 3 miles to collect.

And there are millions of people starving in the world; it doesn't mean I should be happy Monsanto genetically modify and irradiate most of what is available to consumers. I don't use the amount of water a family of 6 uses, so prices should be reflected accordingly to how many people are using it in a household, not a blanket charge for everyone.

Don't think I don't pay bills, I do. My gas and electricity are supplied from companies I chose to get them from (however, I should be able to tap into free energy, considering it's all around us. Shame it's illegal to do that, though!) I pay for my phone and my broadband from suppliers I chose. I even pay my TV license, although I don't need to.

As a human I have a right to choice. When choices are taken from me, I am owned. You might like being owned, but I don't. When a company supplies water causing boys to become feminised and is full of chemical and hormonal crap, it's not a company I choose to do business with. I have the right to pay for what one frugal human uses, not pay for large household usage, and I have the right to choose a provider that supplies better quality water.

All well and good to complain over whatever you want, by no means am I saying you can't but, also recognise that many, many millions of people would gladly swap places in a heartbeat with you to have safe, clean water at the turn of a tap.

Like most things in life, it's all relative.

Exactly. I don't live in a third world country, so it is all relative. Africa was a bountiful place until the 'developed' world raped it, but that's another matter.

[ipso facto]

Could you get a metre fitted, not always possible but you get charged more on how much you use rather than a flat rate.

Also a couple of bricks in toilet cistern or an inflated balloon can drastically reduce your water usage, showers instead of baths.


Whilst it is acceptable to complain of water charges etc there are millions of people in the world who would think they had died and gone to heaven to be able to turn a tap, in their own home, and get clean potable water, water that doesn't carry the risk of various diseases and you don't have to fag 3 miles to collect.

All well and good to complain over whatever you want, by no means am I saying you can't but, also recognise that many, many millions of people would gladly swap places in a heartbeat with you to have safe, clean water at the turn of a tap.

Like most things in life, it's all relative.

+1 :)

[steven1]

armored amazon
a question if I may:
If it is as you say the population is being poisoned by fluoride and chemicals added to the water supply and Monsanto genetically engineering food which is bad for us, you haven't mentioned chem trails but i think we can safety assume your a believer of those as well, just explain one thing for me please.
Why is it that peoples life expectancy is now higher that at any time in history?

I can only assume its all the preservatives in out food.

wakeupcall*

[daxo]

Don't think I don't pay bills, I do. My gas and electricity are supplied from companies I chose to get them from (however, I should be able to tap into free energy, considering it's all around us. Shame it's illegal to do that, though!)

Who said it's illegal? My uncle got a permit from the city, and installed a geothermal system to heat and cool his house. He then put solar panels on the roof (again with permits) of his house, his shed AND his airplane hanger (yeah, the guy has an airplane hangar and a runway in his back yard...which he built himself...with permits). He then tied these solar panels into the cities power supply. He has no ability to store the energy he generates, but the city pays for the power he gives them, and charges him for the power he uses. He averages a profit of about $100 a year. So he's not getting rich, but +$100/yr is not only better than -$100/month, but it's even better than "free." And it's all legal. In fact, when he asked the city about solar panels, they were the ones who offered to tie him in to the city's power grid. And once everything was ready, they came out and installed the magic box that lets power come in to his house while at the same time collecting power from his solar panels...for free!

If you live in the 'burbs, well...that's a different story. But then, the 'burbs often have separate rules you agreed to when you bought in the area...like you can't paint your house fluorescent orange. So if you didn't like them, you shouldn't have agreed to them.

[pri01]

armored amazon
a question if I may:
If it is as you say the population is being poisoned by fluoride and chemicals added to the water supply and Monsanto genetically engineering food which is bad for us, you haven't mentioned chem trails but i think we can safety assume your a believer of those as well, just explain one thing for me please.
Why is it that peoples life expectancy is now higher that at any time in history?

I can only assume its all the preservatives in out food.

wakeupcall*

If they killed us off too quickly their profit margins would be less. They poison us slowly so as not to raise suspicion and to keep us going as a financial resource for as long as they can.

The latter years will probably be worse for some people as the chronic ilnesses start and the lifetime of medicines they will have to take to line big pharma fat cats pocket.

Big pharma, monsanto, water providers do not have our best interests at heart. We are a financial resource from the day we are born and even after our death as they try to grab the last pennies we had from the hands of greiving families.

[theabominablephenomenon]

So because you have chosen to live your life in a particular way, got a house, got a family, it is up to others now to provide you with water?
It was your choice. When taking on a household you were aware, just the same as the OP that there are charges for water. If you didn't agree, why did you continue in your actions?

So how am I going to go about my life without a house etc living in the UK?
If I go to live in the wild, I can be prosecuted for vagrancy. More stupid rules.
Obviously I need water to survive.
The system is in place to deliver good clean water, which I do not object to paying for. I do object to serving an agenda that is designed to poison the
people by paying elitists for the privilege.
Kind of ironic don't you think that you go to work, pay your tax to the PTB,
who then foment plans to kill you off when you are no longer of use to them?
Its like paying for your own death! DOES NOT COMPUTE!


No it isn't.
I can understand when people are having trouble paying bills they need assistance. But when they look for any excuse to not pay for a service, but continue to use that service, even bemoaning the quality of that very service, I can understand why bailiffs are used.

It is detracting from the thread about bailiffs.
Hopefully when people need advice they would be able to look
at this thread and find any good info, without having to trawl
through the explanations of why people don't want to pay
for their own demise.


So you think everything should be free?
Who is going to pay for it? Do you think water is supplied at no cost?


Ideally everything should be free yes!
And it could be with a bit of technology thrown in.
The point is the system is already in place for the water
to be distributed to my home.
I am happy to pay for the systems that purify water,
keep the system maintained, and pay for any work needed,
and the waste disposal.
But that is all it should cost!
Not vastly over inflated prices that are simply unaffordable because
it is our basic need to have water, just to satisfy an agenda that
is designed to kill us off without realising it.


Where does it say the David Icke forum is about finding a way to not pay for things you use? Does Icke not pay for water?
Why do you say if you pay for something you've used it makes you a slave?
Slave seems to be a favourite word used around here. Normally by people who are looking to get out of paying for things.

The idea of the Icke forum is for people to find better ways in life
without the necessary dependency on the system which is destroying the world. At least thats my take on it. That is certainly one of the messages in
his books.
You are a slave if you have to work for the system which is slowly but surely rutting us all up the ricker.
Paying and obeying is only servicing the downfall of the human race.
That is the fact that all you nay-sayers are overlooking.
There are better ways.

[rumpelstilzchen]

If they killed us off too quickly their profit margins would be less. They poison us slowly so as not to raise suspicion and to keep us going as a financial resource for as long as they can.



Kind of ironic don't you think that you go to work, pay your tax to the PTB,
who then foment plans to kill you off when you are no longer of use to them?


This place is worse than I thought:eek:

[steven1]

why dont they keep us alive forever?
The money would never run out.

ohdear*

[theabominablephenomenon]

Am I bothered?
Judging by the start of your sentence,
no.
So why would I be bothered about people who choose to pay for it
when I don't?
BTW, fluoride (as I pointed out in previous post) is also in most bottled waters.
I do not have to drink it, no, you are right.
But it would be helpful wouldn't it?

You would benefit very much from reading some of
Ickes books.
You miss the point of everything entirely.

[theabominablephenomenon]

This place is worse than I thought:eek:
Are you starting to see the bigger picture yet?

[theabominablephenomenon]

Why is it that peoples life expectancy is now higher that at any time in history?


wakeupcall*

Try telling that to the people of Glasgow.

*inyourface

[rumpelstilzchen]

Are you starting to see the bigger picture yet?

I'm starting to see some very paranoid people with some very strange ideas.

So do TPTB have a completely separate water supply to the rest of us, piped in through a secret system or do they take pleasure in killing themselves?

[armoured_amazon]

Who said it's illegal? My uncle got a permit from the city, and installed a geothermal system to heat and cool his house. He then put solar panels on the roof (again with permits) of his house, his shed AND his airplane hanger (yeah, the guy has an airplane hangar and a runway in his back yard...which he built himself...with permits). He then tied these solar panels into the cities power supply. He has no ability to store the energy he generates, but the city pays for the power he gives them, and charges him for the power he uses. He averages a profit of about $100 a year. So he's not getting rich, but +$100/yr is not only better than -$100/month, but it's even better than "free." And it's all legal. In fact, when he asked the city about solar panels, they were the ones who offered to tie him in to the city's power grid. And once everything was ready, they came out and installed the magic box that lets power come in to his house while at the same time collecting power from his solar panels...for free!

If you live in the 'burbs, well...that's a different story. But then, the 'burbs often have separate rules you agreed to when you bought in the area...like you can't paint your house fluorescent orange. So if you didn't like them, you shouldn't have agreed to them.

I don't own property, thus I didn't agree. And I would live in the countryside, but my business depended on me living in the city. Until the government's smoking ban killed mine and many other businesses off.

If they killed us off too quickly their profit margins would be less. They poison us slowly so as not to raise suspicion and to keep us going as a financial resource for as long as they can.

The latter years will probably be worse for some people as the chronic ilnesses start and the lifetime of medicines they will have to take to line big pharma fat cats pocket.

Big pharma, monsanto, water providers do not have our best interests at heart. We are a financial resource from the day we are born and even after our death as they try to grab the last pennies we had from the hands of greiving families.

Quoted for truth.

Try telling that to the people of Glasgow.

*inyourface

:D

And the Okinawans outlive us. It was only when American diet and environmental factors came into play that they started getting our cancers and other illnesses.

[theabominablephenomenon]

I'm starting to see some very paranoid people with some very strange ideas.

So do TPTB have a completely separate water supply to the rest of us, piped in through a secret system or do they take pleasure in killing themselves?
Ah, now we are getting somewhere.
I saw a short vid the other day involving David de Rothschild.
He was holding a bottle of water, one of the only ones I might add
that does not contain fluoride. Obviously considerably more expensive.

Can you point me in the direction of any positive use for
this industrial waste product to be placed into our water supply?
Kids teeth.....only just maybe. beyond that... deadly.

http://whitewraithe.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/flor_dees.jpg

[rumpelstilzchen]

Ah, now we are getting somewhere.

So you beleive that TPTB have their own supply of water?
Do you have proof? Or is your only proof that bottle of water?
Where do they fill these bottles up? Is there a secret factory? Filled with secret workers who have signed secrecy agreements?
What happens if they're out and go to a restaurant? Do they slip inside the kitchen, give the chef a nod and a five pound note, and slip their secret bottle of water into the kettle? Do they have special clothes designed to carry the secret bottles of water?

[theabominablephenomenon]

So you beleive that TPTB have their own supply of water?
Do you have proof? Or is your only proof that bottle of water?
Where do they fill these bottles up? Is there a secret factory? Filled with secret workers who have signed secrecy agreements?
What happens if they're out and go to a restaurant? Do they slip inside the kitchen, give the chef a nod and a five pound note, and slip their secret bottle of water into the kettle? Do they have special clothes designed to carry the secret bottles of water?
I have no idea Rumpel,
you sound like you are sourcing for a new book here!
What they do about it I do not care.
I showed an example, and I would guess that the rest do the same.

Paranoia can destroy ya. Indeed.

However there are several agenda's at work which are not for
the benefit of humanity whatsoever.
Read about it and come to your own conclusions.

Look at what is happening with food in the USA.
It has been said that even in Monsanto's own canteen,
they do not serve Monsanto food.
Go figure.

[rumpelstilzchen]

Sorry, but I don't buy into this conspiracy stuff.
If you truly believe "they" want to kill you, I can imagine your alarm.
However, I don't share that fear.

[theabominablephenomenon]

Sorry, but I don't buy into this conspiracy stuff.
If you truly believe "they" want to kill you, I can imagine your alarm.
However, I don't share that fear.

It is not necessarily about 'killing',
although in the case of fluoride once you have drank
the tap water for a year you will never be the same physically
or mentally ever again; and there is plenty of evidence for that.

A lot of it is about 'dumbing down' people, esp. with things like
pharma drugs that exist only for profit, and the review boards that
allow it are indirectly funded by the manufacturers, yet there is
no conclusive proof that any of it actually works.
Nazi science you see.
If you follow the trail back to the Nazi of WW2 you will see
the same people operating and running the countries of the world now.
Also, do not underestimate projects such as MK Ultra,
the effects of this are very prevalent in society,
yet remain hidden.
You only need to look around a little and you will see
'the magic eye' everywhere.

Anyway... totally off topic now!

The idea about not paying bills is to bring the system to a standstill,
take back what is rightfully the peoples and not the gvt/corporations,
then make it better and fairer for everybody.
Cannot argue with that surely?!

[pri01]

This place is worse than I thought:eek:

Then why are you here?:confused:

[pri01]

Sorry, but I don't buy into this conspiracy stuff.
If you truly believe "they" want to kill you, I can imagine your alarm.
However, I don't share that fear.

Good, I respect your opinion.

As for believing they want to kill me, that's absolutely not what I believe. I absolutely know that they are slowly attacking our health in order to further their profit margins.
I worked for big pharma for several years and I saw how all pharma companies secure future business. Healthy populations don't help their profits so their research and development is engineered to help provide a product for future diseases. Their patents come to an end and they need to have something else to replace their block buster drug in the future.

As for water companies and monsanta, I don't trust them to have our best interests at heart when they sell earths natural resources back to us for hefty profits.

I am not alarmed by this or fearful of it either. I just know that if I am ever told that I need to be on a medication for the rest of my life, I can make an informed choice.

Most people are fearful or not fearful of things because they are ignorant or not aware of them.

[ipso facto]

Sorry, but I don't buy into this conspiracy stuff.
If you truly believe "they" want to kill you, I can imagine your alarm.
However, I don't share that fear.

Me neither - this is what makes me laugh, we are called stupid for living our way of life and we believe everything tptb want us to believe - but they read stuff and it's the truth - pot kettle and black come to mind :D

[rumpelstilzchen]

pot kettle and black come to mind :D

Be careful about exactly what you put into that kettle;) :D

[ipso facto]

be careful about exactly what you put into that kettle;) :d

lol :d

[theabominablephenomenon]

lol :d
You would definitely benefit from some good books
oh free thinking one.
Things are not as clean cut as you think.
You still think we come from monkeys for fucks sake!
Things have moved on....
Ignore at your peril.
To be forewarned is to be forearmed.
You think the New World Order isn't happening right now?
Ok keep reading Murdoch's papers...thats where your truth is.
Forget that 9/11 and 7/7 are totally and provably fake,
the war on terror is a lie, and the government is controlled by Zionists
with no interest in this country apart from to destroy it.

[theabominablephenomenon]

Sorry, but I don't buy into this conspiracy stuff.
If you truly believe "they" want to kill you, I can imagine your alarm.
However, I don't share that fear.

Buy into it or not;
Here is Zionism and what it does,
may not be on your doorstep,
but you have failed to recognise that through ignorance,
you are both funding it and supporting it however indirectly.

http://whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/GazaHolo/image021.jpg
http://whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/GazaHolo/image019.jpg
http://whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/GazaHolo/image016.jpg
http://whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/GazaHolo/image033.jpg
http://whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/GazaHolo/image039.jpg
Still give a shit about paying for your water bill?

[yozhik]

Still give a shit about paying for your water bill?

Keep watching the right hand ... keep watching the right hand ... keep watching the right hand ... don't worry about what we're doing with the left ... keep watching the right hand ... keep watching the right hand ... keep watching the right hand ...

[armoured_amazon]

Keep watching the right hand ... keep watching the right hand ... keep watching the right hand ... don't worry about what we're doing with the left ... keep watching the right hand ... keep watching the right hand ... keep watching the right hand ...

:D

You would definitely benefit from some good books
oh free thinking one.
Things are not as clean cut as you think.
You still think we come from monkeys for fucks sake!
Things have moved on....
Ignore at your peril.
To be forewarned is to be forearmed.
You think the New World Order isn't happening right now?
Ok keep reading Murdoch's papers...thats where your truth is.
Forget that 9/11 and 7/7 are totally and provably fake,
the war on terror is a lie, and the government is controlled by Zionists
with no interest in this country apart from to destroy it.

The NWO is just a cool, far-off-in-the-possible-future discussion/gossip topic for some. I find a lot of people on these type of forums like talking the talk but when it comes to taking action, they don't want to rock the boat. Thank goodness for community groups! :)

[rumpelstilzchen]

Buy into it or not;
Here is Zionism and what it does,
may not be on your doorstep,
but you have failed to recognise that through ignorance,
you are both funding it and supporting it however indirectly.

http://whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/GazaHolo/image021.jpg
http://whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/GazaHolo/image019.jpg
http://whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/GazaHolo/image016.jpg
http://whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/GazaHolo/image033.jpg
http://whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/GazaHolo/image039.jpg
Still give a shit about paying for your water bill?

What, those 'photos are proof that water companies are poisoning us as we speak?
Tell me, exactly how do you come to this conclusion?

[theabominablephenomenon]

What, those 'photos are proof that water companies are poisoning us as we speak?
Tell me, exactly how do you come to this conclusion?
That wasn't what was said Rumpel.
This is about the conspiracy stuff you do not believe in.
Where does all the money in the pyramid scheme go to,
and what is it paying for?
See grim pictures of the modern day nazi holocaust.
Tick tock....

[rumpelstilzchen]

That wasn't what was said Rumpel.
This is about the conspiracy stuff you do not believe in.
Where does all the money in the pyramid scheme go to,
and what is it paying for?
See grim pictures of the modern day nazi holocaust.
Tick tock....

Ah, you're putting words in my mouth now.
When I said I don't believe in this conspiracy stuff, I was referring to the suggestion that we are being intentionally poisoned through our drinking water.
If you have proof that money received by water companies goes directly towards mass murder, by all means post up the evidence. However, just saying money goes up the pyramid scheme is purely speculation.
To say that there is a modern day nazi holocaust occuring, I would suggest is fantasy. However, if you have evidence of a modern day nazi holocaust, post that up too. But, pictures of a few dead bodies that represent a timespan of probably six decades is hardly proof of a modern day holocaust. Give us some figures that may be checked and verified.

[armoured_amazon]

When I said I don't believe in this conspiracy stuff, I was referring to the suggestion that we are being intentionally poisoned through our drinking water.

Yeah, 'cause if the Nazis did it, no one else will. Our governments are benevolent and nurturing. :rolleyes:

[rumpelstilzchen]

Yeah, 'cause if the Nazis did it, no one else will. Our governments are benevolent and nurturing. :rolleyes:

If that's the best you can come up, you fail to convince me.

[yozhik]

So go back to sleep ... sweet dreams. :)

[theabominablephenomenon]

Ah, you're putting words in my mouth now.
When I said I don't believe in this conspiracy stuff, I was referring to the suggestion that we are being intentionally poisoned through our drinking water.
If you have proof that money received by water companies goes directly towards mass murder, by all means post up the evidence. However, just saying money goes up the pyramid scheme is purely speculation.
To say that there is a modern day nazi holocaust occuring, I would suggest is fantasy. However, if you have evidence of a modern day nazi holocaust, post that up too. But, pictures of a few dead bodies that represent a timespan of probably six decades is hardly proof of a modern day holocaust. Give us some figures that may be checked and verified.
Well, a lot of the conspiracy stuff is about Zionism, which is a continuation
of Nazism. NaZionism. Have a look into very real things like project MK Ultra.

If money is a pyramid scheme, which it is, then obviously money goes up it!
When you pay for anything, some money will go to the corp (who are they owned by?) and some to tax (another aspect of the pyramid, controlled by Zionists.)

If you do not believe there is a modern day holocaust happening right now
you have provably got your eyes firmly shut dear Rumpel.
The pictures posted above are a juxtaposition of Nazi (WW2) and Zion (modern day) atrocities.. does it need more proof?

It is a very complex and disturbing issue, far too much to go into detail here.
Find some good books and start to understand how the whole thing works and how you, me and most others have been betrayed our whole lives.

Once you grasp all the information available and it starts to make sense,
you may just find some validity in the Freeman concept.
Otherwise you are just chasing your tail not seeing the reason for any of it.

[rumpelstilzchen]

theabominablephenomenan wrote:
If you do not believe there is a modern day holocaust happening right now
you have provably got your eyes firmly shut dear Rumpel.
The pictures posted above are a juxtaposition of Nazi (WW2) and Zion (modern day) atrocities.. does it need more proof?

Yes it does require more proof. So what have you got?
Pictures from the second world war do not support the suggestion that there is a holocaust occurring today.
Yes people kill people, I don't deny that. But a holocaust? A modern day holocaust? No your pictures fail.
Get some verifiable figures.

[theabominablephenomenon]

Yozhik is able to put it in a more succinct fashion than I Rumpel

Keep watching the right hand ... keep watching the right hand ... keep watching the right hand ... don't worry about what we're doing with the left ... keep watching the right hand ... keep watching the right hand ... keep watching the right hand ...

Don't let rules fool ya,
And don't let fools rule ya.

[theabominablephenomenon]

Yes it does require more proof. So what have you got?
Pictures from the second world war do not support the suggestion that there is a holocaust occurring today.
Yes people kill people, I don't deny that. But a holocaust? A modern day holocaust? No your pictures fail.
Get some verifiable figures.

I have no need or desire to satisfy your needs for proof Rumpel.
As I said, the pics are a juxtaposition of the Nazi and the modern day;
see left - right.
FFS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Go find out for yourself!

[yozhik]

Get your heart right and the mind will follow.

[rumpelstilzchen]

I have no need or desire to satisfy your needs for proof Rumpel.
I know, I know. This is a common occurrence within these forums. That old chestnut, proof eh? Isn't it a bummer?
As I said, the pics are a juxtaposition of the Nazi and the modern day;
I never said they weren't. I said they don't support your assertion that there is a modern day holocaust occurring right now.
Go find out for yourself!
Ah, you see, you're assuming I haven't already checked this stuff out. Naughty naughty.

[theabominablephenomenon]

Get your heart right and the mind will follow.
Not sure if there is a mind there!

[rumpelstilzchen]

Not sure if there is a mind there!

Perhaps not the type of mind you recognise, eh?;)

[theabominablephenomenon]

I know, I know. This is a common occurrence within these forums. That old chestnut, proof eh? Isn't it a bummer?

I never said they weren't. I said they don't support your assertion that there is a modern day holocaust occurring right now.

Ah, you see, you're assuming I haven't already checked this stuff out. Naughty naughty.

1. Are you surprised when you obviously just don't get the answers given?
There is plenty of proof. I'm sure many of the other freeman-doubters would not disagree with this.

2. The pics show that there is a holocaust happening in apartheid Is/Ra/El
right now... and lets not forget the genocide of 1 million in Iraq/Afghanistan.
Iraq isn't just where Saddam used to keep his CD's you know.

3. It doesn't seem so. Have you checked in The Sun?

I am not going to be pressed any further on this Rumpel,
if you do not want to believe it I cannot make you.
Have a look around the other sections of the forums,
and see what people are saying.

The truth is out there, it isn't just going to fall into your lap.

[theabominablephenomenon]

Perhaps not the type of mind you recognise, eh?;)
Sentience is what I recognise!
I know you are a nice guy Rumpel.
:)

[ipso facto]

You would definitely benefit from some good books
oh free thinking one.
Things are not as clean cut as you think.
You still think we come from monkeys for fucks sake!
Things have moved on....
Ignore at your peril.
To be forewarned is to be forearmed.
You think the New World Order isn't happening right now?
Ok keep reading Murdoch's papers...thats where your truth is.
Forget that 9/11 and 7/7 are totally and provably fake,
the war on terror is a lie, and the government is controlled by Zionists
with no interest in this country apart from to destroy it.

Can you tell me where all this information comes from? Or is this only your opinion. Better to believe we came from monkeys than believe in a 'spirit' at least there are resemblances to the apes that can't really be disputed.

I have to say I'm not totally convinced that 9/11 was for real, considering there is the technology for remote control planes and my thoughts are that the clown they called President Bush instigated this in order to continue where his father left off and obviously the oil aspect comes into things quite heavily. He knew Tony Blair was 'nice' and pliable and hey ho, we've got the war on terror. You assume too much .... I don't believe that there is a higher order wanting to make us into automatons and slaves - who are they?

There are people out there who are at the top and at the bottom who know how to work the system to their benefit or in the right place at the right time - to make money and if they are, well that's the way the cookie crumbles. I don't understand why someone would want to destroy a country - what is there to gain?

[theabominablephenomenon]

Can you tell me where all this information comes from? Or is this only your opinion. Better to believe we came from monkeys than believe in a 'spirit' at least there are resemblances to the apes that can't really be disputed.

I have to say I'm not totally convinced that 9/11 was for real, considering there is the technology for remote control planes and my thoughts are that the clown they called President Bush instigated this in order to continue where his father left off and obviously the oil aspect comes into things quite heavily. He knew Tony Blair was 'nice' and pliable and hey ho, we've got the war on terror. You assume too much .... I don't believe that there is a higher order wanting to make us into automatons and slaves - who are they?

There are people out there who are at the top and at the bottom who know how to work the system to their benefit or in the right place at the right time - to make money and if they are, well that's the way the cookie crumbles. I don't understand why someone would want to destroy a country - what is there to gain?

Rather than me go into it, do read some of David Icke's books.
I think there is some deliberate misdirection in some of his stuff,
but they are a realm of information, and quite fascinating.
There are many other authors who are coming up with the same stuff.
I'm not saying I buy into all of it, but there is a very good perspective.
Read without prejudice.

It is thought that an evolution from a monkey to a human would take around
60 million years, and that time frame does not fit in with archeology.
Also, you do not see monkeys evolving into people.

Watch Zeitgeist the movie on youtube,
some of it is thought to be wrong but the general
theme and conclusions are correct and provable.

People are starting to wake up to what has been going on and realised
that life is betraying us, on so many levels.