How Greenpeice got Nuked

[baron von lotsov]

Here is something you probably didn't know. Not quite BBC material this, but then this is not a BBC news forum.


Quote

Brazil is now enjoying a rejuvenation of nuclear energy, with the completion of its second nuclear plant, Angra 2, and the defeat of the anti-nuclear Greenpeace—in the population, in the media, and in the political arena. This dramatic turnaround, from Brazil’s greenie-engineered nuclear retreat of the early 1990s, was the result of a head-on war against Greenpeace waged by the Brazilian Nuclear Energy Association (ABEN).

How ABEN reversed course, went on the attack, and won is most instructive for the wimpy nuclear associations in the industrial nations, which kowtow to the greens. Like ABEN, these organizations would have to shed their traditional defensive behavior and fight.

The director of the Brazilian Nuclear Energy Association, nuclear engineer Guilherme Camargo, tells the fascinating story of how the truth won out over Greenpeace’s lies, in an interview with Dr. Jonathan Tennenbaum which will appear in a future issue of 21st Century Science & Technology magazine. Camargo describes how the Brazilian nuclear industry was flattened in 1993. Greenpeace had spread so many lies, with the aid of the media, that the nuclear community was in despair.

Then, he and his colleagues decided to do something totally unorthodox. Inspired by articles in Executive Intelligence Review and 21st Century magazines, Camargo got in touch with the Icelandic journalist Magnus Gudmundsson, who had made two films documenting in graphic detail the lies of Greenpeace. He was stunned by what the films showed of the self-righteous Greenpeace group. Greenpeace had even staged the grisly killing of a baby seal just to make a fundraising film that purported to show how bad fishermen were killing baby seals.

Camargo put this information together with the EIR documentation of Prince Charles’s influence in Greenpeace, and Prince Philip’s control over the World Wildlife Fund, and their anti-population agenda. Then ABEN brought this information to the Brazilian press. At the same time, ABEN arranged a visit of Gudmundsson to Brazil. As Carmargo said, “We spent almost eight months, hitting Greenpeace in the liver, very carefully and very sharply.”

At first, there was opposition to this campaign among the engineers and scientists in the nuclear ranks, who were used to apologetically defending the safety of nuclear plants, saying things like “the probability of an accident is 10 to the minus so-and-so”—true, but ineffective in the face of irrationality. Camargo said that ABEN was persuaded “that there was a war, and that war must be taken on, and that there was no other way. That we had to defeat the enemy in order to succeed in our aims.”

“The whole nuclear sector in Brazil—because they are not idiots, they just needed somebody to wake them up from this psychotic trance—this woke them up to the real fight. The real fight has nothing to do with technical issues; it is purely political, and mainly emotional and psychological warfare. As a matter of fact, we used the same tactics as the anti-nuclear people used against us,” Camargo said.

The ABEN campaign expanded from using the truth to defeat Greenpeace, to using the truth to attack the rest of the green groups and non-governmental organizations, which in Brazil are funded almost entirely by international organizations like WWF. “I wrote a very strategic article in O Estado de Sao Paulo, one of the most important newspapers,” Camargo said, “stating the truth about the NGOs and the whole grand strategy about using them to eliminate the sovereignty of the country.”


Although Greenpeace has dropped its anti-nuclear campaign—Brazil is probably the only country in which this has happened—the ABEN is continuing to fight on the sovereignty question. And in the transformed political climate, there are now plans to build two more nuclear plants at the Angra site.

Cont.

http://www.21stcenturysciencetech.com/articles/greenpeace.html



Don't you just love LaRouche and his political fix-it team of researchers!

[baron von lotsov]

Bump

[baron von lotsov]

bump

[baron von lotsov]

Hello people.

wakey wakey

Time to wonder what Greenpiece are up to.

Has Icke told you about them? Do you know anything? Here is a factoid to start you off. Their latest offices in Germany cost $60 million and their yearly income is $200 million. Lots of people volunteer because they think it is a good cause. Do you feel it is a good cause? Do you have the tee shirt?

[chris]

that was interesting...I wish I saw that icelandic video (in english), sounded insightful.

[baron von lotsov]

68 views and only one person finds this interesting. Everyone else has no comment. Actually I found it interesting as well and that's why I put it up. I know it is a long way from Bush and the so-called right wing and I know it has nothing to do with Christians, so we get an error. This information is not computable.

For people on here who claim to be so well read it really does show the reality of things. Most of you have no idea what the NWO is upto and this thread was an attempt to educate some of you, but now it is just ignored. Tsarion and Maxwell won't tell you about these things so I suppose you lot are lost. How very sad, I'd get a better understanding on a mainstream forum.

How many of you are members of Greenpiece?

[garth]

Hey ,I find it interesting on a couple of points. i find it alarming that the ex co founder of greenpeace dr Patrick Moore is now pro nuclear power & that there is a push on worldwide it seems to build more nuclear power plants. We have here Brazil, but Australia wants more, US and even in the Ukraine. The push is on for more nuclear power plants...not good.

Chernobyl must be a distant memory to most by now ha.

And no, I ain't a card carrying member of greenpeace, far from it. Does make me wonder who's pulling the greenpeace strings though? nuclear power = stupidity

[baron von lotsov]

So you think nuclear power is the agenda. Well actually the opposite is true. You have a lot to learn, this anti-nuclear propaganda has been in place since the 1970s from organisations like the Club of Rome. Look it up on the Internet and learn the real agenda.

[garth]

So you think nuclear power is the agenda. Well actually the opposite is true. You have a lot to learn, this anti-nuclear propaganda has been in place since the 1970s from organisations like the Club of Rome. Look it up on the Internet and learn the real agenda.

I think that the cabalistic stranglehold on energy generation is the agenda, whether thats nuclear, coal, oil..all the same. Free energy devices have been around since the early 1900's but have been systematically stomped out in favour of the current range of inefficient energy supplies.

The "power" is in the hands of the few controlling the many, cut off the "power" and the many are in chaos.

[chris]

68 views and only one person finds this interesting. Everyone else has no comment. Actually I found it interesting as well and that's why I put it up. I know it is a long way from Bush and the so-called right wing and I know it has nothing to do with Christians, so we get an error. This information is not computable.

For people on here who claim to be so well read it really does show the reality of things. Most of you have no idea what the NWO is upto and this thread was an attempt to educate some of you, but now it is just ignored. Tsarion and Maxwell won't tell you about these things so I suppose you lot are lost. How very sad, I'd get a better understanding on a mainstream forum.

How many of you are members of Greenpiece?

I get my info from quite a wide range of places, a lot of it is contradictory which is fraustrating...I've learned not to place all my belief into one line but rather see as many arguments and possibilities and try to analyse the current happenings to validate the said points and give merit each the particular researcher as they become verified by real world progressions.

They are downgrading our technology, the less effiecient the better (for them) but also I hear them on radio bbc 4 that this is a good thing 'because it's creating jobs.' We are going back to the stone age...I don't like nuclear but I think they are trying to burry it. Although the nuclear lobby is still very powerful and it creates a fuzz which makes it hard to discern through.

The real energy is highly effecient suppressed technology but they would hate that.

[chris]

BBC radio 4 is the fucking worst radio program of all time...The other day they were arguing the point that biofuels will prevent global warming (they even acknowledged that doing so would starve millions).

[baron von lotsov]

I get my info from quite a wide range of places, a lot of it is contradictory which is fraustrating...I've learned not to place all my belief into one line but rather see as many arguments and possibilities and try to analyse the current happenings to validate the said points and give merit each the particular researcher as they become verified by real world progressions.

They are downgrading our technology, the less effiecient the better (for them) but also I hear them on radio bbc 4 that this is a good thing 'because it's creating jobs.' We are going back to the stone age...I don't like nuclear but I think they are trying to burry it. Although the nuclear lobby is still very powerful and it creates a fuzz which makes it hard to discern through.

The real energy is highly effecient suppressed technology but they would hate that.

Sure it is but in practical terms today, if you want a few gigawatts of power then the cheapest when you discount taxes and subsidies is gas turbines at 2.2p per KWH. Nuclear, despite the industry being regulated as excessively as they can, still manages 2.3p per KHW. This includes all decommissioning costs as well. In the 1950s they thought they would eventually be virtually making electricity free using nuclear power. Naturally this has not happened due to a relentless campaign against it since the 1970s. Three Mile Island might not have been an accident.

[e7304]

Well Baron

quote:
"Brazil is now enjoying a rejuvenation of nuclear energy, with the completion of its second nuclear plant, Angra 2, and the defeat of the anti-nuclear Greenpeace—in the population, in the media, and in the political arena. This dramatic turnaround, from Brazil’s greenie-engineered nuclear retreat of the early 1990s, was the result of a head-on war against Greenpeace waged by the Brazilian Nuclear Energy Association (ABEN).

How ABEN reversed course, went on the attack, and won is most instructive for the wimpy nuclear associations in the industrial nations, which kowtow to the greens. Like ABEN, these organizations would have to shed their traditional defensive behavior and fight."

Hmmmmmm.....

Does not really seem like an "unbiased" report, with the name calling and chest thumping.

With the Global warming agenda it will only enhance the Nuke Lobby, which is what this is all about. According to many researchers the oil industry owns it , and after sooo many people have stated that anyone who does not believe that Global War(ming) is not man made, they must be working for the oil industry.....well thats just stupid but very good propaganda."Clean Coal" and Nukes....see who has vested interest in either and/or both.

Nuclear power is not the way and what will we hear about the latest Japanese problem???....probably go away quietly....(even though the PTB admit it was "not designed." for such a quake and its "on a fault line"!!)).....so unless Godzilla resurfaces there will be no backlash (sorry sick humour).

Greenpeace is just a self serving global corporation......years ago maybe it truly was an "enviromental" watchdog and spokesman but I do not believe it is now.

RioTinto and the Queen and its role in the uranium industry in Australia is huge.....then we have Prince Phillip and the WWF whose view is well known .....what to make of it?......nothing like controlling both sides of an arguement. We had better be prepared for the bullshit PR agendas just waiting to be spewed forth on the west in a biiigg way. We have copped them in Australia,but more like the "point" before the wedge.


The Ghan railway in Oz was built for these uranium mines but no one seemed to notice....still ferrying passengers from South Australia to the north.....not profitable, not really there for any reason....apart from the big U. Oz foreign Minister Downer seems to be on track with the US , Japan regarding "dumping" the waste shit down here...but hardly anyone notices.

So (in Brazil or anywhere) you get control of the media, do a massive PR campaign, shitbag Green Peace......then you say "see they are full of it" and the population falls for the two card trick.

Some bloke called Machiavalli came up with this mind game I think.

Nuclear power is not the way forward.

[baron von lotsov]

Well Baron


Nuclear power is not the way forward.

What is the way forward in your opinion?

[chris]

What is the way forward in your opinion?

I think politically it's okay to ask for nuclear power as Ron Paul does but the real way forward I'm sure would be water and other supressed technologies which I'm sure they've perfected long ago. If Ron Paul were to say that he'd be branded a loon.

[baron von lotsov]

OK well we do have zero point energy or what is more accurately described as energy from space-time but this is advanced stuff, as is nuclear fusion. Both are good sources of energy but now were heading two steps back rather than one. All the dumbing down of science education is part of the plot. This is the current agenda, make no mistake about it, even though you could say the nuclear industry is run by the establishment, well so what, so is virtually everything else you buy. However soon, if the establishment have ether way you won't be able to buy nuclear energy, energy prices will skyrocket due to this lie about Global Warming. It's best not to hide your heads in the sand and fact the current situation.

Incidentally Greenpiece was never a legit organisation; it was founded by a Canadian MI5 employee and funded by a consortium of imperial corporations including the one that has the world's monopoly on chemicals. Nuclear power was invented before this part of the agenda was put in place, much change occurred around the 60s and that is why the 50s are put down because things were getting too advanced back then, technology was being touted as beneficial to mankind and certainly most politically incorrect by today's mind control standards.

[e7304]

What is the way forward in your opinion?

Good question.

Depends on how you approach it. Where I used to live in the NW of west australia, we had up to 13 mtr tides. Bloody huge amounts of water coming and going up tidal creeks. The community endorsed "tidal power" but some "greenie" groups lamanted the loss of local mangrove swamp. It would have caused destruction, no doubt but the benefits could have been a first for northern australia.

Obviously this would not work everywhere, but if we used local conditions and accessibility to resources for each "centre" we could have a variety of different approaches and different industries opening up.

But I am a pessimist when global corps are involved.

Windfarms, solar power, have been pushed as options but we know they are not very effective when it comes to power conversion. I accept, as Garth states, that "free" or at least very cheap cost effective "clean" power has been discovered and developed by private/individual people/companies for over 100 years.

Power generation is a necessity for any community in the modern world. The potential to make massive profits is too much for any corporation. When I first saw the "solar challenge" where solar powered cars raced from Darwin to Adelaide, and I noticed that all the sponsors were oil giants, it was a kick to the gut.Knowing that the oil companies "owned" solar power brought the whole picture too me.

Patents have been made for the conversion of hydrogen from water , which makes most sense anyway, but no big company is going to follow this, apart from buying up patents. But still this seems the way to go.

Problem with Nuke fuel, is if we really put the cost of this fuel, in its real perspective ie the ongoing cost of storage of waste, upgrading and replacing then disposal of radioactive parts for decades or centuries just for a start, then the cost would skyrocket.

Multinational corporations will not cover the costs of this sort of commitment and it will once again fall to governments to do so. If the true costs would be brought out into the open, how would they compare to alternative power in the long run. This is something we have to demand when proposals are put forward from the nuke lobby.

[e7304]

OK well we do have zero point energy or what is more accurately described as energy from space-time but this is advanced stuff, as is nuclear fusion. Both are good sources of energy but now were heading two steps back rather than one. All the dumbing down of science education is part of the plot. This is the current agenda, make no mistake about it, even though you could say the nuclear industry is run by the establishment, well so what, so is virtually everything else you buy. However soon, if the establishment have ether way you won't be able to buy nuclear energy, energy prices will skyrocket due to this lie about Global Warming. It's best not to hide your heads in the sand and fact the current situation.

Incidentally Greenpiece was never a legit organisation; it was founded by a Canadian MI5 employee and funded by a consortium of imperial corporations including the one that has the world's monopoly on chemicals. Nuclear power was invented before this part of the agenda was put in place, much change occurred around the 60s and that is why the 50s are put down because things were getting too advanced back then, technology was being touted as beneficial to mankind and certainly most politically incorrect by today's mind control standards.

Yes I see your point about dumbing down of the populace and if what you say about Greenpeace is true, it just follows a long list of these types of organissations that dot the globe today. Follow the money and who benefits are still, I think, the way to see who controls what.

When I was working in NW Oz, I met many miners, especially in the late 80s who, when you asked them, would tell you they were looking at new gas and oil fields potential in the vast area called the Kimberleys. What I remember about most of these people was that they would drill, asses and cap. So in other words, there is a lot of "unopened" wells and fields up there BUT I am not in any position to state this as fact. Obviously the GW scare will keep these areas capped for quite a while.

Zero point energy and fusion are beyond me but I have no doubt that we can/have/will find the way to tap this "ether" which acording to "experts" is amazingly abundant in never ending free energy. But once again its who controls it that is the question.

The problem with Nuke energy, is that once you start a reactor, you just cant say "oh...we dont need it close it down" as compared to a coal fired or diesel power plant. Due to the GW scare many people will see the nuclear industry as the way out. Even as I write this the Oz Foreign Minister, Downer, Is saying we should sell Uranium to India.....what a joke.....here we are shit bagging Iran for developing a nuke industry and we are going to provide India with ore....whose arch enemy is Pakistan!!.Crazy....but This is where the Ghan rail line in central Oz will start earning its money.

Baron, I see what you say about the 50's science BUT you have to remember the spin offs like the ideas like every shoe shop would have an xray machine to check your "bone structure" for shoe fits which quickly was put on hold and the almost insane use of the xrays in health today for standard diagnosis, which has been critisised by many physicists regarding "no amount of radiation forced on the human body is safe" from mammograms to MRI's.

To me it reminds me of the "gene" therapy ideas we have now floating around.. ie the be all to end all. Then we wake up.

The more we think we know, the less we really do. But the reality is that nuclear so called "green" energy will be promoted as the alternative to fossil fuels. Bad news all around. I just hope people wont fall for it, but my faith in that is slim.

[infinitetruth]

The more we think we know, the less we really do. But the reality is that nuclear so called "green" energy will be promoted as the alternative to fossil fuels. Bad news all around. I just hope people wont fall for it, but my faith in that is slim.

what do you mean, nuclear is considered green??

[chris]

I don't see why we should be looking for alternatives...Fussil fuels are abundant and aren't destroying the world. If we decentralised then we wouldn't experience the health problems associated with it. Free markets are the solution and better fuel forms will naturally spring out of it through searching for a better product.

[raginggran]

OK well we do have zero point energy or what is more accurately described as energy from space-time but this is advanced stuff, as is nuclear fusion. Both are good sources of energy but now were heading two steps back rather than one. All the dumbing down of science education is part of the plot. This is the current agenda, make no mistake about it, even though you could say the nuclear industry is run by the establishment, well so what, so is virtually everything else you buy. However soon, if the establishment have ether way you won't be able to buy nuclear energy, energy prices will skyrocket due to this lie about Global Warming. It's best not to hide your heads in the sand and fact the current situation.

Incidentally Greenpiece was never a legit organisation; it was founded by a Canadian MI5 employee and funded by a consortium of imperial corporations including the one that has the world's monopoly on chemicals. Nuclear power was invented before this part of the agenda was put in place, much change occurred around the 60s and that is why the 50s are put down because things were getting too advanced back then, technology was being touted as beneficial to mankind and certainly most politically incorrect by today's mind control standards.


The lie about global warming and the war in Iraq (soon to be Iran) is to secure the oil in the middle east to ensure the US stays in control (oil is traded in US dollars).. What happens if the US does implode? TPTB have too much at stake to switch to any free energy.. they killed Tesla after all.

AS for your continual lies about the origins of Greenpeace, as I have told you before they started as a store front organization in Gastown (Vancouver BC)..I know cause I was there. Hunter was not MI6 or whatever British spook organization and he was not Travistoked either..lol.. They raised money a dollar at a time to purchase their first boat.
I give you that the organization NOW is a big business..but your continual maligning of people (even those who are dead..like John Lennon and Hunter) is obscene.

[baron von lotsov]

Yes I see your point about dumbing down of the populace and if what you say about Greenpeace is true, it just follows a long list of these types of organissations that dot the globe today. Follow the money and who benefits are still, I think, the way to see who controls what.

When I was working in NW Oz, I met many miners, especially in the late 80s who, when you asked them, would tell you they were looking at new gas and oil fields potential in the vast area called the Kimberleys. What I remember about most of these people was that they would drill, asses and cap. So in other words, there is a lot of "unopened" wells and fields up there BUT I am not in any position to state this as fact. Obviously the GW scare will keep these areas capped for quite a while.

Zero point energy and fusion are beyond me but I have no doubt that we can/have/will find the way to tap this "ether" which acording to "experts" is amazingly abundant in never ending free energy. But once again its who controls it that is the question.

The problem with Nuke energy, is that once you start a reactor, you just cant say "oh...we dont need it close it down" as compared to a coal fired or diesel power plant. Due to the GW scare many people will see the nuclear industry as the way out. Even as I write this the Oz Foreign Minister, Downer, Is saying we should sell Uranium to India.....what a joke.....here we are shit bagging Iran for developing a nuke industry and we are going to provide India with ore....whose arch enemy is Pakistan!!.Crazy....but This is where the Ghan rail line in central Oz will start earning its money.

Baron, I see what you say about the 50's science BUT you have to remember the spin offs like the ideas like every shoe shop would have an xray machine to check your "bone structure" for shoe fits which quickly was put on hold and the almost insane use of the xrays in health today for standard diagnosis, which has been critisised by many physicists regarding "no amount of radiation forced on the human body is safe" from mammograms to MRI's.

To me it reminds me of the "gene" therapy ideas we have now floating around.. ie the be all to end all. Then we wake up.

The more we think we know, the less we really do. But the reality is that nuclear so called "green" energy will be promoted as the alternative to fossil fuels. Bad news all around. I just hope people wont fall for it, but my faith in that is slim.

Using nuclear energy is safer than flying 35 000 feet up in the air but the scientifically dumbed down population don't see that. This scare tactic has been used most effectively to keep nuclear energy from developing and turning into a source of energy that would make every other form virtually redundant. I think you have in some way bought the hype regarding wind and solar power but are now questioning it, which is good.

I'm just telling you what the actual agenda is coming from the top and what their actual intention is. It's so far off the mark from the propaganda that most people have difficulty with it. However I always say the best source of information is your own eyes, and what you have actually seen rather than what someone told you about.

Regarding that oil well capping business, yes I have heard about that from other people actually working in the industry in America. I believe you caught a glimpse of the real agenda there. The modus operandi is to reduce supply to push up the price. All this GW bullshit is to aid this plan and the plan to de-industrialise and impoverish us, which will lead to mass famine, as the solar powered industry cannot supply the demand. Think how much more food you can grow with a tractor and then you can see what they are up to. The target is 1 billion people by 2050, most of those will be Japanese and Chinese because they make the best and most compliant slaves to service the elites needs.

I think you should spend some time exposing what you have seen with oil well capping because the Peak Oilers (another system agenda incidentally) will have you believe that oil is running out and that means the price goes up!

[baron von lotsov]

The lie about global warming and the war in Iraq (soon to be Iran) is to secure the oil in the middle east to ensure the US stays in control (oil is traded in US dollars).. What happens if the US does implode?


That is the plan, to destroy America, because it has a strong constitution and believes in nationalism and free markets. This does not accord with the NWO and what they now refer to as a unipolar world (Bilderburg 2007).

America was built up by them in the first place but it has now served its function. Have you not noticed investment is now going east and into China? What were the British up to during colonial times with the Chinese opium wars? They won and lost a few but I think it is safe to conclude now that China is safe for NWO investment bankers.

[baron von lotsov]

Is this thread confusing some of you? I try and explain things and it's all gone quiet again. Come on now and work it out, solar and wind power are part of the establishments green agenda. How many of you are aware of this agenda incidentally?

[cleft_asunder]

So you think nuclear power is the agenda. Well actually the opposite is true. You have a lot to learn, this anti-nuclear propaganda has been in place since the 1970s from organisations like the Club of Rome. Look it up on the Internet and learn the real agenda.

Yes, baron is right. And no, very few people know what the hell is going on in this forum. This forum is weak. Conspiracy Central is way better because it's much more informed.

[baron von lotsov]

Yes, baron is right. And no, very few people know what the hell is going on in this forum. This forum is weak. Conspiracy Central is way better because it's much more informed.

Well I have just searched through about 100 of their top videos and other downloads and not a blip about the green movement. Even Channel Four's expose on global warming lied about the origins of the Green movement. They said it was just born out of a load of ad-hoc organisations from the 70s. They failed to notice why this just sprung out of nowhere. Maybe Icke could tell us since he was in a high profile position in their political wing. Icke to my knowledge does not say much about his personal experiences with them at the time and he should have noticed out of anyone in that place.

[baron von lotsov]

I'm still waiting for some replies to the answers given to the points about energy. You people are all so hot when you think I'm wrong but you simply cannot deal with it when you find out that what you believed has come directly from the establishment. I guess a few of you might have been involved with environmentalism yourselves, I was to a degree, or at least on the periphery of various things. I never signed up because I smelt a rat even then. I knew who the establishment were and I saw them running things on various occasions when it was supposed to be anti-establishment. Like the Sex pistols and EMI were anti-establishment I suppose. So what have you got to say about that? Did you buy it or what? Come on I want to know now!

[raginggran]

Are you having a tantrum Baron?:eek:

Yah.. Global Warming is a pack of lies and is on the Agenda
for Control.

[baron von lotsov]

Are you having a tantrum Baron?:eek:

Yah.. Global Warming is a pack of lies and is on the Agenda
for Control.

I'm trying to stimulate some neuron firing sequences in that grey matter some of you claim to have.

Hmm, it looks lie we have some cerebral activity at long last, the patient is not yet pronounced dead, I do believe we have signs of life here.

[john white]

I'm still waiting for some replies

Well don't look at me, I'm only feeding your delusion and paranoia everytime I try to discuss something with you

It's just too much of a stretch to consider that the Green movement is both a Grass movemnt AND an Elite manipulation, isn't it?

Or that people ould disagree on what course of action to campaign for for genuine reasons: like we are all helping each other through the dark of uncertainity?

And thats how this tiny handful of arrogant arseholes calling themselves "The Elite" have Truth Seekers under yet another form of control: all they have to do is meddle with anything genuine and that association alone makes us refuse to get involved in positive change: and hence actually keep them in power

Rigid thinking makes slaves of humans everytime!

[john white]

Now come on Baron, stop running away from anything you find awkward and actually give us a reply:

Otherwise stop whinging about people ignoring your threads!

[baron von lotsov]

Ah John. You are our regional expert. Please let me know what you were doing in the Green Party?

[john white]

Ah John. You are our regional expert. Please let me know what you were doing in the Green Party?

Giving a damn mostly.

You've really lost it recently Baron

[baron von lotsov]

Right guys, it's obvious our man John is not going to spill the beans so I have a link for you lot from LaRouche, who is the main man regarding research into the Green movement.

This is the index page

http://members.tripod.com/~american_almanac/sitemap.htm

This is a page on the Greens.

http://members.tripod.com/~american_almanac/poppt.htm

[e7304]

what do you mean, nuclear is considered green??

Sorry there. What I meant is that its being promoted as "green" when compared to oil due to its "supposed" lack of GH gases. I firmly believe that within a year it wil be hailed as our only option. This being due to lobbyists and also well meaning experts....wouldnt be suprised if Bono and Geldoff jump on the bandwagon too. But thats a prediction, and I am not doing well on those lately.

I'm still waiting for some replies to the answers given to the points about energy. You people are all so hot when you think I'm wrong but you simply cannot deal with it when you find out that what you believed has come directly from the establishment. I guess a few of you might have been involved with environmentalism yourselves, I was to a degree, or at least on the periphery of various things. I never signed up because I smelt a rat even then. I knew who the establishment were and I saw them running things on various occasions when it was supposed to be anti-establishment. Like the Sex pistols and EMI were anti-establishment I suppose. So what have you got to say about that? Did you buy it or what? Come on I want to know now!

Hey Baron!!
I have had other things on my mind the last few days so I have not read the thread. Obviously you are very passionate about this. Thats good but dont put people down because they dont see your view point.

We all have the problem that we think everyone else's views were from the establishment. I have been told (just like everyone else lately) that vaccines containing thimerosal are good for kids, GM foods are safer than organically grown foods and that nuclear energy is cleaner and safer than what we believe.

As far as I am concerned we have to be careful on whats really being promoted. We seem to agree that global warming is a huge psyop....but the population in general accepts that man made CO2 from the oil, gas coal industry is to be blamed and therfore we need alternatives. Currently the only real "alternative" is nuke power. I do not want to be boxed in with this, as I see the very people who everyone says are responsible for GW, as being behind the nuclear option, and not because its better. I see the GW hysteria as a "door" for this "technology". Many physicists back Nuke technology and say the general population is living on scare tactics from the greenies. Top biologists say the same about GM foods also.(and , as far as I see it, GM foods are possibly the biggest threat to this planet we have ever seen)....and I just hate being told whats good for me from a lobby lackey. They are everywhere today...even respected scientific journals are complaining they cant get "independent" voices.

So yes I am a bit of a greenie as most people are, but I smelled the stench of manure (or a dead vegan) when I noticed this GW bull years ago being pushed by the greens. I dont trust the green movement anymore than the petrochemical or nuke movements.

Just like the big wars we have seen, the PTB have control of both sides to a varying extent and trying to find out who backs who is a hard job (which I leave to researchers....hoping they are honest) and can only use my own common sense to make up my mind. As you state with the capping of wells, yes I am aware of the peak oil scam, just as I am aware of the many reports of huge deposits off Alaska (but it all only makes sense, I think, if you look at the decision makers AS BEING TRULY INTERNATIONALISTS..but thats something I am still thinking about).

Yes I can see this agenda going the way, or at least at the moment, where they would try to de industrialise us. They are already dumbing us down from public schooling (who would want to be a teacher in a public school...years ago a "respected" profession but now go to uni for 3 to 5 years and a public servant without a degree matches your salary in 2-3 years...also nurses are the same ...in Oz anyway , but from what I gather its a "common" problem for the US, UK and Australia..but again another story). Many employers are "not happy" with the quality of even uni graduates, as they claim general or common sense seems to be "lacking" (thats from local reports)....so we are probably already in a form of de industrialisation.

The establishment IS making all the rules. THEY promote what they want in the timeline they want.

I do not trust the way the GW effort has been promoted and the way nuke power is being hailed as the way forward. Sorry but thats the way I see it.

It would be intersting to see if any CFR, Trilateral Commission of even Bilderberg "notes" indicate the replacement of fossils fuels by nuke power in the next 10-20 years but more importantly the reasons behind it.

[baron von lotsov]

Sorry there. What I meant is that its being promoted as "green" when compared to oil due to its "supposed" lack of GH gases. I firmly believe that within a year it wil be hailed as our only option. This being due to lobbyists and also well meaning experts....wouldnt be suprised if Bono and Geldoff jump on the bandwagon too. But thats a prediction, and I am not doing well on those lately.



Hey Baron!!
I have had other things on my mind the last few days so I have not read the thread. Obviously you are very passionate about this. Thats good but dont put people down because they dont see your view point.

We all have the problem that we think everyone else's views were from the establishment. I have been told (just like everyone else lately) that vaccines containing thimerosal are good for kids, GM foods are safer than organically grown foods and that nuclear energy is cleaner and safer than what we believe.

As far as I am concerned we have to be careful on whats really being promoted. We seem to agree that global warming is a huge psyop....but the population in general accepts that man made CO2 from the oil, gas coal industry is to be blamed and therfore we need alternatives. Currently the only real "alternative" is nuke power. I do not want to be boxed in with this, as I see the very people who everyone says are responsible for GW, as being behind the nuclear option, and not because its better. I see the GW hysteria as a "door" for this "technology". Many physicists back Nuke technology and say the general population is living on scare tactics from the greenies. Top biologists say the same about GM foods also.(and , as far as I see it, GM foods are possibly the biggest threat to this planet we have ever seen)....and I just hate being told whats good for me from a lobby lackey. They are everywhere today...even respected scientific journals are complaining they cant get "independent" voices.

So yes I am a bit of a greenie as most people are, but I smelled the stench of manure (or a dead vegan) when I noticed this GW bull years ago being pushed by the greens. I dont trust the green movement anymore than the petrochemical or nuke movements.

Just like the big wars we have seen, the PTB have control of both sides to a varying extent and trying to find out who backs who is a hard job (which I leave to researchers....hoping they are honest) and can only use my own common sense to make up my mind. As you state with the capping of wells, yes I am aware of the peak oil scam, just as I am aware of the many reports of huge deposits off Alaska (but it all only makes sense, I think, if you look at the decision makers AS BEING TRULY INTERNATIONALISTS..but thats something I am still thinking about).

Yes I can see this agenda going the way, or at least at the moment, where they would try to de industrialise us. They are already dumbing us down from public schooling (who would want to be a teacher in a public school...years ago a "respected" profession but now go to uni for 3 to 5 years and a public servant without a degree matches your salary in 2-3 years...also nurses are the same ...in Oz anyway , but from what I gather its a "common" problem for the US, UK and Australia..but again another story). Many employers are "not happy" with the quality of even uni graduates, as they claim general or common sense seems to be "lacking" (thats from local reports)....so we are probably already in a form of de industrialisation.

The establishment IS making all the rules. THEY promote what they want in the timeline they want.

I do not trust the way the GW effort has been promoted and the way nuke power is being hailed as the way forward. Sorry but thats the way I see it.

It would be intersting to see if any CFR, Trilateral Commission of even Bilderberg "notes" indicate the replacement of fossils fuels by nuke power in the next 10-20 years but more importantly the reasons behind it.

Yes indeed, at Bilderburg 2007 the message was 'Sustainable Consumption'. It's not too difficult to understand why they want to reduce the level of resources enjoyed by the people they exploit. However nuclear power since the 70s is exactly what the establishment don't want and it screws up their GW scam completely. Surely you can see why this is so. Think sustainable consumption and nuclear power. The CO2 lies fail on this, it is the one source of cheap and plentiful energy that they can't dispute, even to say it is dangerous does not hold any water. Surely you can see this? It's the best defence they have. As I said, do the research on the Club of Rome and you will start to question your green beliefs.

[john white]

Right guys, it's obvious our man John is not going to spill the beans so I have a link for you lot from LaRouche, who is the main man regarding research into the Green movement.

This is the index page

http://members.tripod.com/~american_almanac/sitemap.htm

This is a page on the Greens.

http://members.tripod.com/~american_almanac/poppt.htm

What's obvious is that you have absolutely no interest in truth whatsoever and are trapped in your own dark paranoid world. Some cheek shilling for LaRouche though, especially given how you claim to have exposed Jordan Maxwell as a criminal fraudster... suits you when it suits you though doesnt it?



Lyndon Hermyle LaRouche, Jr. (born September 8, 1922 in Rochester, New Hampshire) is an American political activist and founder of several political organizations in the United States and elsewhere, jointly referred to as the LaRouche movement. He is known as a perennial candidate for President of the United States, having run in eight elections since 1976, once as a U.S. Labor Party candidate and seven times as a candidate for the Democratic Party nomination.

There are sharply contrasting views of LaRouche. His supporters regard him as a brilliant and original thinker, whereas his critics see him as a conspiracy theorist, and anti-Semite.[1] The Heritage Foundation has said that he "leads what may well be one of the strangest political groups in American history."[2][3] In 1984, LaRouche's research staff was described by Norman Bailey, a former senior staffer of the National Security Council, as "one of the best private intelligence services in the world."[3]

LaRouche was sentenced to fifteen years imprisonment in 1988 for conspiracy to commit mail fraud and tax code violations, but continued his political activities from behind bars until his release in 1994 on parole. His attorney, Ramsey Clark, a former U.S. Attorney General, argued that the case represented an unprecedented abuse of power by the U.S. government in an effort to destroy the LaRouche organizations.[4] LaRouche and his defenders claim the prosecution was a politically motivated conspiracy involving government officials, numerous others, and a mass media brainwashing campaign.[5]

LaRouche is currently listed as a director and contributing editor of the Executive Intelligence Review News Service, part of the LaRouche movement. [35] He has written extensively on economic, scientific, and political topics as well as on history, philosophy, and psychoanalysis.



I maintain you are trapped in a mental Slave Pen the elite have constructed for you and are utterly oblivious to it Lotsov: you've lost your connection with humanity: all you see is Black and White:

YOU might as well be a Mason: becuase like a good conditioned robot, you think like one. You are a peice on the board. Your thoughts are not your own

And if you stopped fearing and judging for just one minute, you would come to a calamatous revelation:

You are hollow inside

I have to believe you can change course, becuase I do know it is possible, but you are a futile person to debate with these days and the low response count to your threads is not becuase people on this forum dont know as much or far more than you:

Its becuase its an entirely pointless exercise whilst all you can do is propogandise in ignorance

Any other members agree? I do believe it would do the Baron good to hear your voice

[baron von lotsov]

That's all you ever do John, you troll every thread unless it is by a disinfo artist like Maxwell, Tsarion, Sitchen etc. You are so predictable and I want everyone to be aware of this.

You can't face the facts so you attack the messenger. I invite everyone else to use Google and do their own checking of the references I have put forward. Lets talk about the Club of Rome shall we John. Lets try and stay on topic.

[them]

I often find I project belligerence onto Barons posts in the same way as I often project sanctimony onto yours, John.

Personally, I've taken a great deal from Von Lostov. For example, I'd never heard of the Club of Rome until The Baron mentioned it on the original Icke Forum.

I always tend to just skip the stuff that holds no interest for me.

I've worked for loads of Green NGO's & Government agencies Baron but never Greenpeace. I think your saying that Greenpeace are the physical aspect of a Green psyop? I'm probably wrong though..

Why would anybody do that, what would they achieve? Protection of the continued use of fossil fuels?

Everybody knows that power stations are just big steam engines and that nuclear fuel is the most efficient & cleanest way to produce the steam to drive the turbines. Why aren't they building more?

I don't like Greenpeace, if you want to live a low impact lifestyle start at home by doing things that are real and change your own reality. Don't give money to membership of environmental bodies.. buy a bird bath or turn your lawn in to a spud patch. Live the Good Life.

Anyway.. the Green movement is eons old Baron, it starts for me with philosophers like Thales, Parmenides and Heraclitus debating pantheism..

Mass trespass of Kinder Scout - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://www.nationalparks.gov.uk/learningabout/history.htm

[john white]

That's all you ever do John, you troll every thread unless it is by a disinfo artist like Maxwell, Tsarion, Sitchen etc. You are so predictable and I want everyone to be aware of this.

You can't face the facts so you attack the messenger. I invite everyone else to use Google and do their own checking of the references I have put forward. Lets talk about the Club of Rome shall we John. Lets try and stay on topic.

Bullshit mate: you play nothing but the ball

All you want is blind subserviance to your interpretation of the facts: a fearful and paranoid one with no chance of creating any constructive movement

And what about your lies and mudslinging?

You demand to know who I am: you demand I explain what I do and why I do it: you make serious allegations against me without even the sniff of anything approaching evidence, in such a way as to reduce your own self image to the level of a farcical charactature and then avoid any hinjt of taking responsibility or, God forgive, apology

But who are you? Just a faceless entity clinging to the opinions of other, decidely unsavoury men, and considering yourself "enlightened" for it. you reveal nothing, show nothing and share nothing

Which is why you have nothing to teach:

Club of Rome you say? WWF for Nature you say? Prince Phillip, Prince charles, the Rothschilds, etc

(And oh LOL! At who did just that, yet you of course know nothing about it, becuase as well as a coward, you are here as a fraud)

This was all exposed years ago: but you are stuck in the "drama"of the exosure of it: "Oh problem!" you say: but you are berift: you have no clue of a solution, other than to fragment and mistrust and sign your will away to another Elite, in your delusion a good Elite, and Elite you can trust: what kind of idiot are you? You've learned nothing, apart from how to wall yourself off and let others shape the world, and this is the upshot of your great wisdom and advice: Acheiving sweet FA! and this is what you advocate others should do

"Hey everyone! Trust the Right hand illuminati, they'll stop the left hand illuminati!"

Are you seriously such a child? Have you really learned nothing of the ways of the world?

Have you really not learned that the one crucial thing to acheiving any kind of positive change is building on what we have in common, not this pathetic obsession with exposing what we have apart? To rise above the low vibration prison of duality and live from the soul, not the brain (with extreme logic imbalance in your case)

YES, facts are important, and you are utterly kidding yourself if you think that I am in any way afraid of them:

Just as you are deluding yourself if you think the illuminati are in anyway threatened by YOU

You live in their trouser pocket and just don't know it

Its not facts that are the issue: its that you are utterly unfit at your current level of awareness to form an opinion of them, and that will stay the case as long as you continue to shill for ignorant, fearful, paranoid and misoginistic arseholes like Larouche and Makow who are both more likely to be on the payroll than anyone you think you have exposed, and only vision is of a world of judgment and repression

As, admitted Knights of Malta and Aristocrat knobsucker that you are, are YOU

And this is why your threads are ignored. Your at the foot of a mountain standing on a small boulder and thinking it the summit!

[john white]

Personally, I've taken a great deal from Von Lostov. For example, I'd never heard of the Club of Rome until The Baron mentioned it on the original Icke Forum.


Icke was talking about the Greens being inflitrated and subverted before he even left it. And you'll find large sections devoted to the subject in "truth will set you free"

Again it's not the information: its that Lotsov would dismiss the entire notion of Ecological awareness or that its humanities consciousness which is the problem, and shilling that is his AGENDA

[baron von lotsov]

Why would anybody do that, what would they achieve? Protection of the continued use of fossil fuels?



At least you are at the stage of asking important questions and it wont be long before the penny drops.

The green plan is huge; it's the biggest one of the lot. What the American military does is dwarfed by it. A few minor squabbles in some British Commonwealth country hardly mean a thing compared to the enormity of the green plan to reduce the world's population to 1 billion by 2050. This is reflected by the hype since all the hype is paid for out of money made by your NWO institutions and oil is one of the biggest.

These people do not operate a free market they monopolise the market and they drive it in any direction it suits them. The plan is to replace efficient energy generation for totally brain-dead and stupid 'solutions' like wind and solar power for the precise reason of reducing total world energy consumption. This will lead to reduction in industry and a reduced industry will lead to food shortages, riot, martial law and all the rest of it.

Once the industry, the science and the technology has gone we will be as good as dead. It will happen gradually at first, you wont notice the impact on the third world countries because your TV will be filtering your information. You will start to notice as prices for fruit, veg and meat and dairy products start to rise. This is already happening and we have not even really got started on the mass introduction of organic food, which is only 4% of the market currently. Do you know about organic food incidentally? Do you know the truth of DDT? If organic food is the solution then why are they promoting it? Why do they promote vegetarianism and why are they into bio-fuels? Think of land and what the land used to grow bio-fuels won't be used for. You see, it all makes 100% complete sense down to the very last thing that they do. The plans were put into service from the early 70s onwards that is why nuclear power was once used by them and supported but this has changed now. De-industrialisation in the UK started in the 1980s. (Dirty industry...) Some of you were unwitting useful idiots. Don't get fooled again.

[john white]

And its all based on using "Green" and the usual subliminal mass thoughforming techniques, to enable the system to perpetuate itself

This does not mean the carnage of the economic system has not wreaked serious harm to the balance of the Planet! Our carelessness with life and over the care of it is the surrest sign of humanities collective psychopathy, most especially when we do it for the illusion called money, a peice of paper, a figment, a dream, a thought that binds

But what happens if the genuine spiritual upsurge of owning our own responsibility for the balance of this world sweeps straight through the bullshit of the Elite Duality Men? What happens when people do not fear anymore, and ACT on their dreams?

Believing yourself to be white Lotsov all you see is blackness

For you to be white is blinding for you:

For Me to be White, it is Clarity

[e7304]

Ok, this aint about nuke versus fossil fuel but pertinent.
Just came across this movie from the 1990's. George Hunt, maybe youve heard of him ,maybe not.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6642758020554799808

Anyway, he mentions how Edmund de Rothschild is the father of the world conservation movement. He also says how the environment movement has been hijacked by the elite.

But the real crux is that he mentions Maurice Strong. I had vagely heard of him but googled his name.

"The billionaire Canadian businessman is an employee of the United Nations; an employee of the Rockefeller and Rothschild's trusts and projects; a director of the Aspen Institute for Humanistic Studies; the organiser of the first World Conference on the Environment in 1992; the founder and first head ofthe U.N. Environment Program; the secretary general (and chief organizer) of the UNCED Earth Summit in Rio in June 1992, and a leading socialist, environmentalist, New World Order manipulator, occultist, and New Ager. In the mid-1980s, Strong joined the World Commission on the Environment where he helped produce the 1987 Brundtland Report widely believed to be the "incendiary" which ignited the present "Green movement."

....and this as Strong quotes.

"It is clear that current lifestyles and consumption patterns of the affluent middle-class... involving high meat intake, consumption of large amounts of frozen and convenience foods, ownership of motor vehicles, small electric appliances, home and work place air-conditioning, and suburban housing are not sustainable... A shift is necessary toward lifestyles less geared to environmental damaging consumption patterns."

Strong has forcefully advocated a new economic order based on the re-distribution of the developed world's industries and wealth to the Third World. Strong is indeed an arch socialist. "

http://home.sprynet.com/~eastwood01/mstrong2.htm

Notice how he targets "middle class". Typical elitist.

The clip also mentions the "forth world". Never heard of it until now.

But it Strongs' assertion in a "fictional" story called The wizard of baca grande that something stuck right out.

This info is all quite old, but like all these bastards there ideas carry on. Now he states that the west be "manufactured" into economic collapse through the stock market mainly by excess CREDIT. This is created by a panic started by a secret society who have access to stock exchanges, computers and gold supplies. His fictional account involves some world leaders being held hostage by "mercs" hired by the elite so the world financial markets cant close, and so the collapse cant be contained. But it is the main theme that intrigues me ie the CREDIT. This story goes back to 1990, but plans by this bunch always take time.

Add this to Hunts assertion that world wide "Gaia" worship will be promoted....and we have a similar situation appearing now.

Also the vid has a part where Hunt states that Rothschild wont allow environmental solutions to work ie "inoperative". WELL I heard the term "innovative" but said in a typical British upper crust accent. Just a point.

Well I found it interesting. See what you think.

[them]

Icke was talking about the Greens being inflitrated and subverted before he even left it. And you'll find large sections devoted to the subject in "truth will set you free"

Again it's not the information: its that Lotsov would dismiss the entire notion of Ecological awareness or that its humanities consciousness which is the problem, and shilling that is his AGENDA

Ickes "truth will set you free" is shortcoming in my ken which I intend to rectify.

Ecological awareness is inherent in us all, it's called biophilia.

Biodiversity is the most information-rich part of the known universe.

[baron von lotsov]

Ok, this aint about nuke versus fossil fuel but pertinent.
Just came across this movie from the 1990's. George Hunt, maybe youve heard of him ,maybe not.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6642758020554799808

Anyway, he mentions how Edmund de Rothschild is the father of the world conservation movement. He also says how the environment movement has been hijacked by the elite.

But the real crux is that he mentions Maurice Strong. I had vagely heard of him but googled his name.

"The billionaire Canadian businessman is an employee of the United Nations; an employee of the Rockefeller and Rothschild's trusts and projects; a director of the Aspen Institute for Humanistic Studies; the organiser of the first World Conference on the Environment in 1992; the founder and first head ofthe U.N. Environment Program; the secretary general (and chief organizer) of the UNCED Earth Summit in Rio in June 1992, and a leading socialist, environmentalist, New World Order manipulator, occultist, and New Ager. In the mid-1980s, Strong joined the World Commission on the Environment where he helped produce the 1987 Brundtland Report widely believed to be the "incendiary" which ignited the present "Green movement."

....and this as Strong quotes.

"It is clear that current lifestyles and consumption patterns of the affluent middle-class... involving high meat intake, consumption of large amounts of frozen and convenience foods, ownership of motor vehicles, small electric appliances, home and work place air-conditioning, and suburban housing are not sustainable... A shift is necessary toward lifestyles less geared to environmental damaging consumption patterns."

Strong has forcefully advocated a new economic order based on the re-distribution of the developed world's industries and wealth to the Third World. Strong is indeed an arch socialist. "

http://home.sprynet.com/~eastwood01/mstrong2.htm

Notice how he targets "middle class". Typical elitist.

The clip also mentions the "forth world". Never heard of it until now.

But it Strongs' assertion in a "fictional" story called The wizard of baca grande that something stuck right out.

This info is all quite old, but like all these bastards there ideas carry on. Now he states that the west be "manufactured" into economic collapse through the stock market mainly by excess CREDIT. This is created by a panic started by a secret society who have access to stock exchanges, computers and gold supplies. His fictional account involves some world leaders being held hostage by "mercs" hired by the elite so the world financial markets cant close, and so the collapse cant be contained. But it is the main theme that intrigues me ie the CREDIT. This story goes back to 1990, but plans by this bunch always take time.

Add this to Hunts assertion that world wide "Gaia" worship will be promoted....and we have a similar situation appearing now.

Also the vid has a part where Hunt states that Rothschild wont allow environmental solutions to work ie "inoperative". WELL I heard the term "innovative" but said in a typical British upper crust accent. Just a point.

Well I found it interesting. See what you think.

Yes he is one of them for certain. Well done, that was a good bit of research and equates exactly to what I have seen. You can see the main points, a credit bubble, and attack on the middle class capitalist and small independent businessman and also I might add an attack on the Christian church and replacing it with all of those UN, New Age, one world religions of complete servitude. So many have bought it, both on here and elsewhere and just to add that it was Rockefeller who was behind woman's lib in order to double the workforce but also to disempower men, who are the more logical thinkers and are genetically much more wary of danger since it is their job to be the protector of the family. Passing power into the hands of women who don't have a clue is so that they will always follow their orders. You can see this today if you look around you.

An example of a Rockefeller style initiative.
http://www.goddessconference.com/

[raginggran]

While you have many good insights Baron, you cannot see the forest for the trees.
The "feminine" is coming back now to join with the "masculine" energy to help
us overcome the dark.

Have you ever asked yourself why TPTB have eradicated the female energy?

[baron von lotsov]

While you have many good insights Baron, you cannot see the forest for the trees.
The "feminine" is coming back now to join with the "masculine" energy to help
us overcome the dark.

Have you ever asked yourself why TPTB have eradicated the female energy?


That's more indoctrination to make women think that they are nothing unless they are strong, which is purely a masculine trait. They do the precise opposite to men, making them feel bad unless they 'get in touch with their feminine side'. I can almost repeat the propaganda word for word; I have heard it so many times in this skinner box of a town.

I'd strongly advise you to reassess what you have been told with this, because it appears they have got to you as well and now you are an unwitting proponent of NWO propaganda. They have a lie to suit each type of person and you have bought that one and others have bought other lies and you argue amongst each other debating which NWO lie is the truth! Part of the women's lib movement even had links to the CIA!

[john white]

That's more indoctrination to make women think that they are nothing unless they are strong, which is purely a masculine trait. They do the precise opposite to men, making them feel bad unless they 'get in touch with their feminine side'. I can almost repeat the propaganda word for word; I have heard it so many times in this skinner box of a town.

I'd strongly advise you to reassess what you have been told with this, because it appears they have got to you as well and now you are an unwitting proponent of NWO propaganda. They have a lie to suit each type of person and you have bought that one and others have bought other lies and you argue amongst each other debating which NWO lie is the truth! Part of the women's lib movement even had links to the CIA!

You are a totally ignorant man. You fear women and hate their difference from you, and you are psychologically damaged, preventing you from forming healthy relationships with them. Rather than address your sickness you blame others for their healthiness. You are using the excuse of "elite meddling" with legitimate desires for social justice to prop up your failed and tired notion of patriarchy:

YOU WORSHIP LUCIFER AND DO NOT KNOW IT, FOOL!

[eternal_spirit]

There is truth in what the baron is saying here and I think you know it JW, you have reverted to childish tatics by personally attacking the baron time and time again. What gives JW? Nevermind, at least we get two very differing opinions to consider.
In the red corner JW and in the blue corner the baron lol.

[eternal_spirit]

It's the same with all this lesbians wanting to adopt, gay marriages, test tube genetically manipulated babys. Gay rights ( what about straight rights?) It is part of the NWO Illuminati Agenda of their new Culture creation plan. Because they know Christianity promotes family values for one thing.

[eternal_spirit]

[quote=raginggran;89839

Have you ever asked yourself why TPTB have eradicated the female energy?[/quote]

.................

They prefer boys to girls alot of them.
Female energy can mean more than one thing depending which version you're talking about.

[eternal_spirit]

We don't know the facts here. What other alternatives are there? Hidden sciences....none or( less) polluting forms of energy?

[baron von lotsov]

It's the same with all this lesbians wanting to adopt, gay marriages, test tube genetically manipulated babys. Gay rights ( what about straight rights?) It is part of the NWO Illuminati Agenda of their new Culture creation plan. Because they know Christianity promotes family values for one thing.



Yes and if your theory does not fit the observed facts it is bunkum. This is why you need to ask why do they promote homosexual rights when the law is supposed to give everyone equal rights? Why do they promote women's groups, why do they bang on about the BNP but never ever say anything about the Socialist Workers Party? All these questions have to be answer by any theory put across, and if one observed fact flies in the face of the theory then the theory cannot be right.

You can't pick and choose your evidence, a correct theory should be able to explain everything and also have the power of prediction. No one believed Einstein until he made his prediction about the eclipse of Mercury. They knew when the eclipse was going to happen but Einstein calculated it would be out by a certain amount due to the theory of General Relativity. They eagerly watched in anticipation and when it was what he said it would be then that settled it.

I made a prediction about my town and what would happen to it about 6 years ago, people didn't think so but now they understand. It's up to us now, no establishment is going to spill the beans, we have to do it and we need that intellectual rigour to win the case.

[john white]

There is truth in what the baron is saying here and I think you know it JW, you have reverted to childish tatics by personally attacking the baron time and time again. What gives JW?

It's not what we say its where we say it from

Its true I'm fed up with Lotsov at the moment, mostly becuase hes taken to smearing people I know and willfully deluding himself on threads. After 2 years of it from him I say its time for Lotsov to get real

After Lotsov branded me a troll becuase he couldnt deal with my questions I'm just giving him a dose of what he attracted. The guy accused me of being a liar and a freemason FFS! No evidence, just paranoia. Why should i put up with it?

All Lotsov does is take other peoples work and use it as a blunt insturment of ignorance. He wants to simplify a very complex situation regardign mankinds massive imbalance with the planet and use the agenda munching of a handful of Elitists to pretend a very real problem isnt happening

And its not just "global warming": thats just the tip of the iceberg. Global food production is entirely dependent on the massive exploitation of fossil fuels that ARE running out, petro agriculture is turning the soil into a chemical wasteland, pollutants keep rising, the forests keep burning, the ice caps keep melting and we are all right on the brink... we think we are awake now, we simply have no idea: the human population has exploded, doubling in 50 years, as a direct consequence of us raping the planet for its aincient storehouse of energy, we are heading into the void and we have NO answers within the current system whatsoever:

Thats why the spiritual evolution of humanity way past the pathetic shilling that Lotsov does for capatalism is absolutely essential: and Lotsov is here to supress Truth he can't handle. He's not doing anyone any favours, all hes looking to do is create clones of himself, and he IS lost

For heavens sake, Icke exposed all the Elite messing with environmentalism 15 years ago as members of this forum SHOULD know! What new info then is Lotsov bringing? Makow and Larouche are sad repressive maniacs

[john white]

Stealing the Planet

Today we continue to see the next stage in the Elite/Third World debt strategy: to forgive or restructure the debt in return for land and resources. The environmental movement is playing a part, mostly unknowingly, in this. One of the initiatives supported by many in the environmental movement is known as 'debt for equity'. Under this proposal, the international debt of Third World countries is forgiven n return for handing over areas of wilderness and 'environmentally sensitive' ands. It is promoted as a system that wins both ways. The debts of poor countries are reduced and these wilderness and other lands are protected. Unfortunately, the green movement in general has a very poor record of looking behind the smokescreens thrown up by the New World Order crowd. Firstly, the scheme would not reduce debt; it would change the nature of it and steal the lands of these countries. And secondly, who is behind the idea? Ladies and gentlemen let's hear it for.. .David Rockefeller and Baron Edmond de Rothschild! One example of this was something called The World Conservation Bank (WCB), which was apparently initiated at the Fourth World Wilderness Conference, held on September 13th 1987 at Denver, Colorado, and continued over the following four days at the notorious Aspen Institute for Humanistic Studies. James Baker, the US Treasury Secretary and long time buddy of George Bush, made a speech in support of the World Conservation Bank. The official host of the World Wilderness Conference was George W. Hunt, an accountant and investment consultant, who had done some reading about world conspiracy 'theories'. This helped him to realise what was going on before the eyes of some genuine environmentalists who had no idea how they were being manipulated. An interview with George Hunt appeared in Moneychanger magazine in the United States. In that, he explained how the World Conservation Bank was being designed as a world central bank to create yet more debt in the Third World and steal the lands of the poor while trumpeting its success in reducing debt and 'saving the environment'. He said: "...the banker Baron Edmond de Rothschild was at the meeting for six days. Edmond de Rothschild was personally conducting the monetary matters and creation of this World Conservation Bank, in the company of I. Michael Sweatman of the Royal Bank of Canada. Those two were like Siamese twins, and that's why I say that it appears they were running at least the money side of this conference and I would say the conference was primarily to get money. Also, David Rockefeller (of Chase Manhattan Bank) was there and gave a speech on Sunday..." The scam was to transfer the debts from the Third World countries to the World Conservation Bank and, in return, those countries would give land to the WCB. Should the WCB collapse or get into repayment difficulties on the debts, it would then owe its assets to the global bankers, who would be at liberty to seize the lands of the Third World. Alternatively, in the ever-gathering centralisation, there could be a 'takeover' of the WCB by the United Nations, thus giving control over the lands to this New World Order front. As the fact sheet published by the Secretariat of the Wilderness Conference said:
"...plans for the WCB propose that it act as an intermediary between certain developing countries and multilateral or private banks to transfer a specific debt to the WCB, thus substituting an existing 'doubtful debt' in the bank's books for a new loan to the WCB. In return for having been relieved of its debt obligation, the debtor country would transfer to the WCB natural resource assets of 'equivalent value'." Problem-reaction-solution. If accepted, this would give the World Conservation Bank control over 30% of the Earth's land surface through this means alone, never mind all the rest that the Elite own. When George Hunt delivered a written protest to David Rockefeller via the 'great man's' bodyguard, Hunt says he received a warning from Rockefeller's office saying that: "I'd better stay out of politicking or I'd regret it." Note also that while the manipulators are quite happy for loans from other countries to be, in effect, forgotten - 'retained in-country' for environmental projects - the loans from the Elite banks would not be forgotten. They would be transferred from the Third World Countries ('doubtful debts') to the World Conservation Bank, which would guarantee the repayments in money or Third World land. Another well known face at this conference which initiated the WCB was the Social Democrat Prime Minister of Norway, Gro Harlem Brundtland. This was appropriate because she recommended an organisation like the WCB in the UN sponsored Brundtland Report on the environment called "Our Common Future". This was compiled in league with David Rockefeller's 'green' associates, Maurice Strong (Comm 300) and Jim MacNeill, two leading lights in the UN Commission on Environment and Development and the 1992 Earth Summit in Brazil. Same names, same agenda; on and on it goes. If it wasn't so tragic, it would be funny. In fact, some of it is anyway. In the Moneychanger article, George Hunt reported the contribution to the environmental debate made by Baron de Rothschild: "He said innovation is the key to the pollution problem. We need growth and development. For instance, we have a CO2 problem. [Baron de Rothschild proposed] that we create large dry ice machines that will absorb CO2 from the atmosphere, and then take the dry ice that we create up to the polar ice cap to keep it from melting."
Moneychanger interviewer: "Oh, come off it."
"No, I'm not kidding. I said to myself, this guy has either lost his mind or...
(Moneychanger interviewer in fits of uncontrollable laughter) "...or he is just laughing at us. Isn't that something? And by the way I've got the whole conference on tape." I tried to track down the World Conservation Bank in 1995 and no-one seemed to have heard of it. I rang Friends of the Earth, Greenpeace, and the British Government's Environment Department, and they all scratched their heads. I rang the United Nations Environment Agency and at first they acknowledged the name before returning to the phone to say that they, too, had never heard of it.Maybe it never got started or maybe it is working quietly out of the public eye, I don't know. I do hope the first one is the case. If you know what happened to the WCB, please let me know.


And thats just a small sample: not that Lotsov would know! He's never bloody read it!

Lotsov is just ignorantly deriding people on this forum becuase he little has not idea what they know: hes stuck at a kindergarten level of understanding yet thinks himself an accomplished researcher!

[eternal_spirit]

Seems every time a scientist
invents new technology the oil merchants etc surpress it. This is about money. Tesla had some answers, but his inventions where hi jacked and used for other purposes such as HARRP, weather modification. He was the one who was supposed to have come up with a version of none polluting free energy.

The atom bomb another invention, which ties in closely to nuclear fusion and energy production.

Surely solar power and wind power has a part to play in the future of eco friendly forms of producing electricity.
There's even car engines than can run on a variety of different fuels other than oil, petrol etc.

[john white]

Seems every time a scientist
invents new technology the oil merchants etc surpress it. This is about money. Tesla had some answers, but his inventions where hi jacked and used for other purposes such as HARRP, weather modification. He was the one who was supposed to have come up with a version of none polluting free energy.

The atom bomb another invention, which ties in closely to nuclear fusion and energy production.

Surely solar power and wind power has a part to play in the future of eco friendly forms of producing electricity.
There's even car engines than can run on a variety of different fuels other than oil, petrol etc.

If we could live in harmony with that, yes: but to do so involves the demolition of the system's control, which those with "power" cannot countenance, so they would rather drag the world through hell and hold onto control with their fingertips

Hence the infiltration and subversion of every movement that could threaten that control: like the Greens

Hence the fallacy of Lotsov's entire argument

He sees the elites attempts at manipulation, has a panic attack, and does their work for them

[baron von lotsov]

BP has a massive new refinery they have just built to process bio-fuel (£400 million investment in the 'technology'). BP, according to LaRouche is a firm owned by the House of Windsor. Bio-fuel has now become more profitable to the farmer than growing food for human consumption (source local newspaper: country matters section) even though the UK has experienced one of the highest food inflation figures across Europe.

Quote
BP and DuPont announced the creation of a partnership to develop, produce and market a next generation of biofuels in June 2006.

http://www.bp.com/genericarticle.do?categoryId=2012968&contentId=7034350

Same old faces eh?

[eternal_spirit]

[quote=john white;86699]Icke was talking about the Greens being inflitrated and subverted before he even left it. And you'll find large sections devoted to the subject in "truth will set you free"

.......................

Yes, this shocked me
found out about this years ago. But before knowing this was one reason many people were attracted to reading some of Icke's earlier writings. The Greens were speaking out against enviromental pollution etc at the time.

Maurice strong ( Illuminati) Prince Philip founder of the World Wild Life Federation.. are using this movement to take over huge pieces of land around the World in the name of Conservation. This is not to protect endangered species or preserve natural resources or the environment. maybe partly for their own gain, but not for the mases of Africans and other peoples around the planet.

After all, wasn't it Philip who said if he had a choice what he would be if he was reincarnated he would come back as a virus so he could kill of a large part of the human race!

This poplulation reduction of the lower classes is part of the Elite's agenda some say. The manufactured Aids virus and other methods, goes hand in hand with this plan. They wan't to save the best unpolluted land for themselves ( the Elite )

[john white]

BP has a massive new refinery they have just built to process bio-fuel (£400 million investment in the 'technology'). BP, according to LaRouche is a firm owned by the House of Windsor. Bio-fuel has now become more profitable to the farmer than growing food for human consumption (source local newspaper: country matters section) even though the UK has experienced one of the highest food inflation figures across Europe.

Quote
BP and DuPont announced the creation of a partnership to develop, produce and market a next generation of biofuels in June 2006.

http://www.bp.com/genericarticle.do?categoryId=2012968&contentId=7034350

Same old faces eh?

More shilling: Larouche thought it, you parrot it

And its OK that LaRouche is a convicted fraudster becuase hes YOUR convicted fraudster: but you'll shill against Maxwell becuase hes NOT "Your" convicted fruadster. "La Rouche props up my ego self so whatever he says he must be ok: Maxwell attacks my ego self, so he must be a Luciferian Occultist Satanist: Whatever protects me from exposure to Truth!"

So where did "La rouche" get his "fact" that BP is owned by the House of Windsor? Its all one system anyway, the is no objective difference between one part of the octopus and another but where is his proof? What are you believing just becuase your mind controller TOLD you to believe it?

What about your own Cult?

http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/9781/watchtowermemorialsitebma2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[eternal_spirit]

The Elite have all this land, to grow organic crops, non Gm food, the best breeds of cattle. Whilst they give us the opposite, to dumb us down and keep us physically weaker.

[baron von lotsov]

Shut up John.

I'm sick of your trolling and I am becoming ever more convinced that you are on this forum for completely disingenuous reasons, like every other forum I have seen you on. All you ever do it bat for the establishment. You even tried to wreck NO2ID, but I expect they kicked you off. Then you start your propaganda war on telling everyone they are useless. I'm certain it wont be long before you get sussed out on this forum.

Now I wont let this topic get derailed any further so unless you have some relevant points to make on the subject of the thread I will ignore you.

[baron von lotsov]

The Elite have all this land, to grow organic crops, non Gm food, the best breeds of cattle. Whilst they give us the opposite, to dumb us down and keep us physically weaker.

Even the organic thing is a scam. Ask yourself what happens when you put insufficient fertiliser into the ground. Even chemicals which are basic nutrients for the plant are banned. The standard is a philosophy, not anything scientific. Organic produce half the size and double or even triple the price and the elite just love those food shortages. It was the farmers that were the biggest threat to Stalin; you see, they were self-sufficient.

[john white]

Shut up John.

I'm sick of your trolling and I am becoming ever more convinced that you are on this forum for completely disingenuous reasons, like every other forum I have seen you on. All you ever do it bat for the establishment. You even tried to wreck NO2ID, but I expect they kicked you off. Then you start your propaganda war on telling everyone they are useless. I'm certain it wont be long before you get sussed out on this forum.

Now I wont let this topic get derailed any further so unless you have some relevant points to make on the subject of the thread I will ignore you.

My objection to NO2ID is based on that campaign PROVABLY suppressing valid information: my trolling of you (you asked for it, you got it!) is based on you being an arrogant prick without apology. And no, i'm not banned from NO2ID: but here I do have freedom of speech and you simply have no counter argument to my objections to that fake campaign. I "tried to wreck it?" HAH! I simply spoke Truth, I don't try to "destroy" anything: but its very psychologically revealing into how you see what YOU are trying to do!

And WHAT DO YOU MEAN NO RELEVANT POINTS!

I've demolished your entire fear based argument!

AND exposed you for your absolute ignorance of what Ickes position is!

[john white]

so Tough Luck Shill!

[eternal_spirit]

Even the organic thing is a scam. Ask yourself what happens when you put insufficient fertiliser into the ground. Even chemicals which are basic nutrients for the plant are banned. The standard is a philosophy, not anything scientific. Organic produce half the size and double or even triple the price and the elite just love those food shortages. It was the farmers that were the biggest threat to Stalin; you see, they were self-sufficient.

....................
Okay, what I was saying is they have huge amounts of land for themselves, so they can produce what they like for themselves, cost is no problem when they are producing the best food for their own consumption. ( The Elite ).

The so called terminator seeds are bad news...The crops cannot reproduce naturally, they don't produce seeds for the next season, so the farmers have to buy new seeds every year from the seed suppliers who are owned by you know who. The sellers can up the prices, this is another form of control, and who knows how these seed can be alterd and manipulated for nefarious reasons.

Some fertilisers can come form natural sources ie made from rotting onions, carrots. The local farmer sprays the fields which are less than 15 feet from my back windows. There are a variety of fertilisers which are labeled chemical when they are derived from natural sources.

[them]

And its not just "global warming": thats just the tip of the iceberg. Global food production is entirely dependent on the massive exploitation of fossil fuels that ARE running out, petro agriculture is turning the soil into a chemical wasteland, pollutants keep rising, the forests keep burning, the ice caps keep melting and we are all right on the brink... we think we are awake now, we simply have no idea: the human population has exploded, doubling in 50 years, as a direct consequence of us raping the planet for its aincient storehouse of energy, we are heading into the void and we have NO answers within the current system whatsoever:

John is right to point out exponential population increase, as well as the obviously manifest ongoing global climate changes.

Baron is right to point out that lies are being told about the reasons for that global climate change. I don't agree with all of the Barons conclusions, however, that doesn't oblige me to have answers of my own.. I simply don't know.

What interests me is the hows & whys of a set of events that saw unprecedented technological advances, starting in the first quarter of the twentieth century, & as John stated a doubling of the Human population in fifty years.

Why the technological drive? Why the lies about global warming?

If people want to save the planet, they need to start loving it unconditionally. That's the start point. See Biophillia.

http://wilderdom.com/evolution/BiophiliaHypothesis.html

[Edward O. Wilson's Biophilia Hypothesis
I have argued in this book that we are human in good part because of the particular way we affiliate with other organisms. They are the matrix in which the human mind originated and is permanently rooted, and they offer the challenge and freedom innately sought. To the extent that each person can feel like a naturalist, the old excitement of the untrammeled world will be regained. I offer this as a formula of reenchantment to invigorate poetry and myth: mysterious and little known organisms live within walking distance of where you sit. Splendor awaits in minute proportions.
Edward O. Wilson, Biophilia, 1984, p. 139

Quote
BP and DuPont announced the creation of a partnership to develop, produce and market a next generation of biofuels in June 2006.

http://www.bp.com/genericarticle.do?categoryId=2012968&contentId=7034350

Same old faces eh?

A tree surgeon just down the lane from me recently bought a machine for chipping wood to the correct size for bio-fuel generators, those wood chips are worth three times as much as chips for mulch.

http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/0e2a1f03d456dab51f28fa07191e5afe/compdetails

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._James's_Square

Even the organic thing is a scam. Ask yourself what happens when you put insufficient fertiliser into the ground. Even chemicals which are basic nutrients for the plant are banned. The standard is a philosophy, not anything scientific. Organic produce half the size and double or even triple the price and the elite just love those food shortages. It was the farmers that were the biggest threat to Stalin; you see, they were self-sufficient.

Whilst you maybe right in suggesting a scam surrounding supermarket organic produce I would have to say that farming organically is totally viable, sustainable, natural & proven. What do you think people did before the modern agri-chemical industry existed?

See crop rotation.

Crop rotation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[john white]

Baron is right to point out that lies are being told about the reasons for that global climate change. I don't agree with all of the Barons conclusions, however, that doesn't oblige me to have answers of my own.. I simply don't know.

Which I am also right about. The reason for the Lies is obvious: manipulation in the direction of the percieved path to the continuance of control: exactly how that is percieved shifts across the years continuously, but the theme is a constant

What interests me is the hows & whys of a set of events that saw unprecedented technological advances, starting in the first quarter of the twentieth century, & as John stated a doubling of the Human population in fifty years.

Why the technological drive? Why the lies about global warming?


Its absolutely and straightforwadly a link to the continued proliferation of the exploitation of Oil, representing as it has in the systems perspective a free source of massive energy to be taken and used: increasingly throughout the 20th century and most epsecially post WWII, the exploitation of Oil has been used to provide sops for the people: "rule by the fulffillment of subconscious desires through products" in consumer capatalism (Huxlian Paradigm) and rule by threat or removing those benefits (Fear)" through Communism (Orwellian Paradigm) and the use of that energy to create massive food supplies led to an immediate boom in the human population: all species grow to fill the available food supply. Easily observable law of nature.

The very real problem is that this energy is finite and is based on millions of years of accumulation squandered in a little over a hundred (whether Oil is derived from biological processes or the "deep hot biosphere" (itself a biological theory)). So whats going to happen when the energy to create that abundant food supply is no longer available? The Baron's argument that Agri-Chemical "Big Oil" agriculture is some alternative to Elite control is utter garbage, being as the elite Oil companies control the fertalizers, pesticides (and seeds): his aversion to organic and truly sustainable farming simple irrational prejuduce. True permaculture actually DOES provide an alternative that could feed the current population, but given that to do that would need a total restructuring of the very concept of economics means its impossible whilst the current system stands.

We all do our best, but the fact remains that very likely we are going to have to experiance a violent crash into a world without readily available cheap oil and the world cannot be protected from feeling the consequences of that indefinately: this alone is a primary reason why all societies are currently sliding towards fascism (though there are of course others)

Arming ourselves with knowledge now may very well keep us and our children and their children alive in the years to come

And that is certainly one reason why dismissing the entire enviromental movement in a fit of immature peak as a "Scam" just becuase Bogeyman Rockerfeller placed his slimey paws on it most certainly pisses me off. His "power" will soon enough be history

[cruise4]

What do we use Power For?

Unecessary travel - We travel for work for money and because they have moved the workplace away from the living place
Unecessary TV - it fuels unneccessary spending
Unecessary Lighting - Is anyone saying solar couldn't produce light
Unecessary Heat - Geothermal, Building methods, Insulation, Solar

Are we actually not just in a self perpetuating spending cycle that has been manipulatively foisted upon on?

Are not the arguments on Power solely around 'their' need to 'control' the power?

Growing Organic isn't a problem, we have loads of land round here that cannot be grown on down to the EU. I have grown food and its care and attention that makes the difference. Rotation, Dual Cropping. There is no need for huge cities, huge supermarkets and all the other infrastructure these people have once again foisted on everyone. There is a huge interleaving mesh of unneccessary structure involved here.

Lets suppose Brown's Gas works as Fuel. I grow my own food. I collect sunlight. I collect rainwater.

What do I need to go to work for?
Isn't this what they are scared of???

I am convinced this simplistic arrangement is well within the realms of possibility. If it wasn't for taxes I wouldn't be in the system already.

We do not need 'them' and thats what they cannot stand.

Re: Brown's Gas and what I will attempt, go here:
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7192&highlight=Brown%27s

I have a dual fuel landrover, so if I can fill the tank with Hydrogen... I'm laughing...zero cost fuel once set up.

I would also say I am convinced Energy Breakthroughs have been suppressed... big time. Science is a handicapped profession due to suppression in many fields. The above points could be expanded on big time. There is plenty of room for variation in implementation here. Anyone seen the paint on photo-electric film recently exhibited for example?

[john white]

Growing Organic isn't a problem, we have loads of land round here that cannot be grown on down to the EU. I have grown food and its care and attention that makes the difference. Rotation, Dual Cropping. There is no need for huge cities, huge supermarkets and all the other infrastructure these people have once again foisted on everyone. There is a huge interleaving mesh of unneccessary structure involved here.

In principle, absolutely: but the problem comes from the parlous state of the food producing soil thanks to big agri turning it into a chemical desert, and the nessacary transition time to establishworking organic agriculture. It's going to take a purposful mobilisation of the people to make that happen: it can't happen by chance: and of course the system is a desperate as ever not to relinquish its control. One might say it fears its own Ego death!

[cruise4]

I agree with that John. These chemicals additives etc. are a deliberate problem being caused again. Never seen that word Parlous before which is incredible...fraught with danger :D

[e7304]

What do we use Power For?

Unecessary travel - We travel for work for money and because they have moved the workplace away from the living place
Unecessary TV - it fuels unneccessary spending
Unecessary Lighting - Is anyone saying solar couldn't produce light
Unecessary Heat - Geothermal, Building methods, Insulation, Solar

Are we actually not just in a self perpetuating spending cycle that has been manipulatively foisted upon on?

Are not the arguments on Power solely around 'their' need to 'control' the power?

Growing Organic isn't a problem, we have loads of land round here that cannot be grown on down to the EU. I have grown food and its care and attention that makes the difference. Rotation, Dual Cropping. There is no need for huge cities, huge supermarkets and all the other infrastructure these people have once again foisted on everyone. There is a huge interleaving mesh of unneccessary structure involved here.

Lets suppose Brown's Gas works as Fuel. I grow my own food. I collect sunlight. I collect rainwater.

What do I need to go to work for?
Isn't this what they are scared of???

I am convinced this simplistic arrangement is well within the realms of possibility. If it wasn't for taxes I wouldn't be in the system already.

We do not need 'them' and thats what they cannot stand.

Re: Brown's Gas and what I will attempt, go here:
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7192&highlight=Brown%27s

I have a dual fuel landrover, so if I can fill the tank with Hydrogen... I'm laughing...zero cost fuel once set up.

I would also say I am convinced Energy Breakthroughs have been suppressed... big time. Science is a handicapped profession due to suppression in many fields. The above points could be expanded on big time. There is plenty of room for variation in implementation here. Anyone seen the paint on photo-electric film recently exhibited for example?


Good luck wth the experiments...and as far as cropping goes, why hemp isnt utilised on a vast scale really shows the manipulation of the system. From what I remember the Nazis had all the technology for product manufacture from hemp given to them by Standard Oil during the war years as a trade off for leaving Standard Oil's fields and refineries intact.

Well as far as Browns Gas goes for anyone in Australia....the 2007 Nexus conference is being held on the Gold Coast in late October. Apparently there will be many stalls there and Browns Gas will be one of the exhibitions. As I have been a reader of Nexus for about 15 years, I am thinking of booking a trip over there, as I have never been to any type of conference like this in my life. Always wanted to go to one, and this year may be my best chance.

Cruise4.
I noticed in your link your browns gas model. When you place the tube in the jar , you have the nail portion of the tube upwards with the lead attached. Wouldnt the fact that both leads are now submersed cause a short?. Sorry electrical work/theory is not something I am familiar with or have I misread something.

[cruise4]

Hi e7304... on the other sites mentioned there's further details. I've only just come across this info. I'd guess there's a rubber washer involved or sticks out the top or something.

What with Tesla, magnets and now the water energy thing...I just can't believe how badly led down the garden path we have been! Its incredibe. Forget the Global Warming CO2 argument... get greenpiece types on the case with this stuff.

And it will blow the NWO funding sources totally out the window.

The quicker the dissemination of this information the better.

I'm no engineer/scientist either. Just a reasonably competent DIYer with a stocked tool shed and I have always had trouble throwing stuff away:D

I'll let you know what happens! Might be rubbish:D

[baron von lotsov]

get greenpiece types on the case with this stuff.

:D

They are just trained to stop people in the high street to get them to sign up to direct debit schemes after having a talk to people. I have talked to them and now you don't see any in the high street from any of these scam charities. We used to get them every weekend but I have not seen one for 6 months now. I used to tell them how the British Empire runs Africa and things like what the SAS do and that sort of thing. They got really interested in it and were motivated to find out more and to talk to others. Someone must have pulled their plug though.

[cruise4]

Hi baron.. did you see that Penn and Teller vid on PrisonPlanet where they had the environmentalist signing up to ban water?:D They got hundreds!

[baron von lotsov]

Hi baron.. did you see that Penn and Teller vid on PrisonPlanet where they had the environmentalist signing up to ban water?:D They got hundreds!


Yes, they take naivety to new levels of extremity. Most are fresh out of university and want to save the planet. Mind you they can be helped. This guy I remember from Action Aid looked extremely confused but hopefully he has an Internet connection. Once the cat is let out of the bag with one or two it is often the case that most of their friends are in similar organisations and will catch on too.

Letting them out onto the streets of Glastonbury was not so clever. I get the feeling enough people know what is going on to keep this place above water. There were some people for example who asked some tricky questions at the climate change meeting and stormed out of the room once the 'experts' tried to brush it off and the chair put it down to merely a disagreement between experts, which incidentally was reported by the press. So, lets hope their days are numbered.