Car Parks Charging VAT @ 17.5%

[the worm that turned]

Here is one to ponder...

I parked at a council run car park yesterday in Canterbury in Kent and for some reason I decided to choose print ticket (never normally do). When I looked at the receipt I was surprised to notice that it stated VAT being charged to me (and every other person using that car park since the rate changed) at 17.5%.

Questions to ponder:
1 - Was this an honest mistake?
2 - Do they pass the 17.5% back to the HMRC?
3 - Do they pass 15% back to the HMRC and pocket 2.5% for themselves?
4 - Is this illegal and do ALL previous users of the car park have a right to reclaim their payments of at least the 2.5% difference and maybe all monies due to fraud (if indeed fraud has been proven to be committed)?

Interesting one...

[merlincove]

vat is for luxury items only, i believe, which is why (if i am correct) buscuits dont have vat but cakes do, there was some rig-marole about jafa cakes not being a cake and therefore not vat-able. It was ruled that they were a buscuit i thin, but i digress...

is the provision of paying for the privilage to park in a council carpark a luxury then? Where are the car park attendants who attend to your vehicles safety? Do they check you oil and tyre pressures and give your car a valet why you are away - these are the things i'd be wanting if using their facility was a luxury.

Even owning a car in todays world is becoming less of a luxury and more of a necesity for some, let alone parking.

But yeah re 17.5% you are right, ring them up and inform them of their discrepency and tell them that it is, not maybe, is tantamount to fraud.

Well spotted wormthatturned, a nice catch indeed :D

[dondaz]

vat is for luxury items only, i believe, which is why (if i am correct) buscuits dont have vat but cakes do, there was some rig-marole about jafa cakes not being a cake and therefore not vat-able. It was ruled that they were a buscuit i thin, but i digress...

I remember the Jaffa Cake case. Wasn't that in the 80s? I laughed about it at the time thinking they just want to scam money out of people. Did it have something to do with EEC rules or something?:eek:

is the provision of paying for the privilage to park in a council carpark a luxury then? Where are the car park attendants who attend to your vehicles safety? Do they check you oil and tyre pressures and give your car a valet why you are away - these are the things i'd be wanting if using their facility was a luxury.

Yes, good point. Think of the service you'd get in a 5 star hotel, that would be similar luxery.

Good thread. I read in another thread about double yellow lines on public roads and penalty charges being implimented by private corporations. Where is the contract? Where is the service and what gives them the right to levy a charge for use of Common Land that is clearly unocupied?

Thoughts to ponder eh!

[the worm that turned]

What do you think is the best course of action? Approaching the council directly? Claiming back my overcharged VAT? Approaching a newspaper to tell them of the situation?

So many options but I want to do this properly... Advice?

[1694]

vat is for luxury items only, i believe, which is why (if i am correct) buscuits dont have vat but cakes do, there was some rig-marole about jafa cakes not being a cake and therefore not vat-able. It was ruled that they were a buscuit i thin, but i digress...

is the provision of paying for the privilage to park in a council carpark a luxury then? Where are the car park attendants who attend to your vehicles safety? Do they check you oil and tyre pressures and give your car a valet why you are away - these are the things i'd be wanting if using their facility was a luxury.

Even owning a car in todays world is becoming less of a luxury and more of a necesity for some, let alone parking.

But yeah re 17.5% you are right, ring them up and inform them of their discrepency and tell them that it is, not maybe, is tantamount to fraud.

Well spotted wormthatturned, a nice catch indeed :D

VAT isnt just for luxaries, just luxury food is VATable, where as regular food sold cold at the point of sale is VAT free/Zero rated. Kids clothing is also exempt, almost everyhting else is VATable.

[the worm that turned]

Aren't we missing the point though.

they are charging VAT at 17.5%! They are breaking the law and should be punished, unless it was a mistake, but either way ALL of the users of the car park are due a refund!

[number_6]

If you suspect a VAT fraud
If you suspect that a firm is avoiding paying VAT, or of charging VAT when they aren't VAT registered, you can report them in confidence on the Customs Confidential hotline, 0800 595 000, open 24 hours, seven days a week.


You don't have to give your name or any personal details.



You could phone this number and explain that you believe the vat registered entity is over charging vat.

[the worm that turned]

If you suspect a VAT fraud
If you suspect that a firm is avoiding paying VAT, or of charging VAT when they aren't VAT registered, you can report them in confidence on the Customs Confidential hotline, 0800 595 000, open 24 hours, seven days a week.


You don't have to give your name or any personal details.



You could phone this number and explain that you believe the vat registered entity is over charging vat.

thanks number 6, I may well just do that and maybe call a national paper too (doubt they'll be interested though)

[yozhik]

There is fraud.

Standard rate is 15%.
Increase to 17.5% does not come into force until 2010.

It's clear cut.

[the worm that turned]

There is fraud.

Standard rate is 15%.
Increase to 17.5% does not come into force until 2010.

It's clear cut.

As I thought but I can imagine that they will claim that it was an admin error/computer error (as most MPs have with their expense claims).

Personally, they have committed fraud against ME therefore I can take a personal claim against them, but to make these people realise the error of their ways there needs to be a thousand plus users of the car park(s) to ALL take these people to court and claim back their money - BUT - other than a few individuals, who could/would create a meaningful case against them for fraud, which would actually send the point home?? Would it be HMRC and if so, would they even bother???

[dreamweaver]

I remember the Jaffa Cake case. Wasn't that in the 80s? I laughed about it at the time thinking they just want to scam money out of people. Did it have something to do with EEC rules or something?:eek:
It was 1991.

Biscuits and cakes are treated as food items and therefore zero-rated. But chocolate-covered biscuits are treated as confectionery and therefore subject to VAT.

So McVities, who made the Jaffa Cakes, argued that they were cakes and therefore still a food item and not subject to VAT. Customs and Excise disagreed, so it ended up in court. McVities baked a special 12" version to demonstrate that its Jaffa Cakes were simply miniature cakes. :D

McVities won and so to this day Jaffa Cakes are exempt from VAT.

[merlincove]

It was 1991.

Biscuits and cakes are treated as food items and therefore zero-rated. But chocolate-covered biscuits are treated as confectionery and therefore subject to VAT.

So McVities, who made the Jaffa Cakes, argued that they were cakes and therefore still a food item and not subject to VAT. Customs and Excise disagreed, so it ended up in court. McVities baked a special 12" version to demonstrate that its Jaffa Cakes were simply miniature cakes. :D

McVities won and so to this day Jaffa Cakes are exempt from VAT.

Only the man from the chocolate factory would know this lol :rolleyes:

But yeah, worm that turned, throw an expenses sheet at the council for 2.5p in every pound spent there x number of tickets and lodge an account of fraud with your local county court :D

[majorlee]

As I thought but I can imagine that they will claim that it was an admin error/computer error (as most MPs have with their expense claims).

Personally, they have committed fraud against ME therefore I can take a personal claim against them, but to make these people realise the error of their ways there needs to be a thousand plus users of the car park(s) to ALL take these people to court and claim back their money - BUT - other than a few individuals, who could/would create a meaningful case against them for fraud, which would actually send the point home?? Would it be HMRC and if so, would they even bother???

it might be computer error - but that is there RESPONSIBILTY - they are commiting fraud, well spotted and go and use the laws to get them prosicuted for there GROSS NEGLIGENCE

imagine how many people have be frauded as well - i bet it runs in thousands of pounds - make em pay it back!

[yozhik]

Tell the local newspapers.

With the current anger regarding MP expenses, ANYTHING remotely in the same ballpark; i.e. local government snout in trough (council car park intentionally overcharging each and every man and woman who uses the car park) ... you can almost guarantee it will become a VERY hot potato in a very short space of time.

Local anger and exposure + official complaint = hot topic

[majorlee]

Tell the local newspapers.

With the current anger regarding MP expenses, ANYTHING remotely in the same ballpark; i.e. local government snout in trough (council car park intentionally overcharging each and every man and woman who uses the car park) ... you can almost guarantee it will become a VERY hot potato in a very short space of time.

Local anger and exposure + official complaint = hot topic


yes - now is the time!

[dreamweaver]

Tell the local newspapers.

With the current anger regarding MP expenses, ANYTHING remotely in the same ballpark; i.e. local government snout in trough (council car park intentionally overcharging each and every man and woman who uses the car park) ... you can almost guarantee it will become a VERY hot potato in a very short space of time.

Local anger and exposure + official complaint = hot topic

+1

Good point, yozhik.

[the worm that turned]

I've told local newspapers and radio and waiting to hear back. Also informed a solicitor to see if they had any advice.

Will report anything new.

[merlincove]

way to go tw :D

[the worm that turned]

If you suspect a VAT fraud
If you suspect that a firm is avoiding paying VAT, or of charging VAT when they aren't VAT registered, you can report them in confidence on the Customs Confidential hotline, 0800 595 000, open 24 hours, seven days a week.


You don't have to give your name or any personal details.



You could phone this number and explain that you believe the vat registered entity is over charging vat.

Tried that number. On hold for 10 minutes. More of a tepid line rather than a hotline!