noam chomsky

[joy division]

A MUST SEE Interview of Noam Chomsky - YouTube

[disorder2k8]

i have a few of his books

[kappy0405]

I like Chomsky. Actually, he was one of the first sources that got me interested in checking out government conspiracies.

I will say, however, that he doesn't go into much detail exposing the 'corporatocracy' he frequently demonizes. He never mentions the owners of and interlocking core of the corporate world, such as Rockefeller, Rothschild, etc. This is really the only thing of any significance that separates him and his followers with the Alex Jones/David Icke crowd, the attention to detail. It does make him look dishonest, but I think he's just trying to maintain his credibility with the mainstream. Other than that, I think he's well intended. I truly wish there was more unity between us (the anti-nwo movement) and the Chomskians with their anti-US imperialism movement. Essentially, they're the exact same thing, only the Chomskians fail to realize that. =/

[smoking oceanus]

Its stupid saying that Chomsky is CIA shill only because he doesnt talk about the big "conspiracy" picture.

The big picture to our problems is not the grand conspiracy.

As Robert Anton Wilson said: The biggest conspiracy is the conspiracy of the stupid".
And we as Humans bring it upon ourselves.

[xxxx]

who said he was a CIA shill?

[joy division]

just found this by chance too.

1993 thought control in a democratic society.

http://www.tv-links.eu/show_link.php?data=NTc0NjMy

[smoking oceanus]

who said he was a CIA shill?


Certain paranoid "us against them" type conspiracy buffs, commonly found in the 9/11 truth movement and amongst Alex Jones groupies.

[pinkfreud]

i like chomsky. he's been one of the few guys who spoke out against u.s. imperialism and the evils of capitalism- but he does tend to veer towards communism sometimes which imo isn't any better.

[supertzar]

Didn't he say that even if 9-11 was an inside job, which he doesn't believe, it doesn't matter because there are more important things to focus on?

I mean I'm not surprised that he is called a shill. He's all like "Israel is a puppet of the United States" and shit...Damn, give me a break, man.

[joy division]

He's all like "Israel is a puppet of the United States" and shit...Damn, give me a break, man.


This is true.

[anthony65]

Chomsky ain't no shill...

He's bigger than that.

Chomsky is a gatekeeper of the intellectual left.

His statements on 9/11 were mind-boggling... :eek:

Chomsky says that he is right and anyone who goes beyond him is a fruitbat.

He's a left wing intellectual fascist, stalinist...

Waaaaannnnnkkkkkeeeerrrrrrrrr! :D

[disorder2k8]

but Israel IS a puppet of the U.S. Israel Military gear is U.S made

The U.S is one of the biggest arms dealers in the world

[supertzar]

but Israel IS a puppet of the U.S. Israel Military gear is U.S made

The U.S is one of the biggest arms dealers in the world


Clearly US and Israeli interests are interlocked. To me it seems to be Israel that has undue influence in US affairs. They demand money and weapons and they get it.

[allure]

Didn't he say that even if 9-11 was an inside job, which he doesn't believe, it doesn't matter because there are more important things to focus on?


He lost all respect and credibility for me with his 9/11 statements.

[steevo]

Chomsky ain't no shill...

He's bigger than that.

Chomsky is a gatekeeper of the intellectual left.

His statements on 9/11 were mind-boggling... :eek:

Chomsky says that he is right and anyone who goes beyond him is a fruitbat.

He's a left wing intellectual fascist, stalinist...

Waaaaannnnnkkkkkeeeerrrrrrrrr! :D

I agree.

[michael christopher]

I can't find the quote online and don't feel like typing it out from watching the video, but the fact that Chomsky believes it doesn't matter whether or not 9/11 was an inside job should start causing light bulbs to go off over your heads if you support this guy.

Of course it matters that the truth comes out. What kind of evil person would think otherwise?

[anthony65]

I can't find the quote online and don't feel like typing it out from watching the video, but the fact that Chomsky believes it doesn't matter whether or not 9/11 was an inside job should start causing light bulbs to go off over your heads if you support this guy.

Of course it matters that the truth comes out. What kind of evil person would think otherwise?

Absolutely!

That was a jawdropper of a statement! :eek:

[reptileslayer]

He lost all respect and credibility for me with his 9/11 statements.
Agreed his statements were ridiculous. He is one of 2 things or both, he is a cia shill, and/or he has been imprisoned in the left brain.

[xxxx]

people are gonna hate me for this. but...
i'm not sure it does matter if 9/11 was an inside job or not. i think it depends on what you mean by inside job. did the us goverment do it themselves, let it happen, was it rouge elements within the goverment/military complex that did it, let it happen? what? was it corporations? was it another countries secret service? crazy islamic fundamentalists? crazy christian fundamentalists? crazy people? sane people?
what it think matters is what happens after the event, how people react to it.

[steevo]

people are gonna hate me for this. but...
i'm not sure it does matter if 9/11 was an inside job or not. i think it depends on what you mean by inside job. did the us goverment do it themselves, let it happen, was it rouge elements within the goverment/military complex that did it, let it happen? what? was it corporations? was it another countries secret service? crazy islamic fundamentalists? crazy christian fundamentalists? crazy people? sane people?
what it think matters is what happens after the event, how people react to it.

Is that YOU Noam ?

[asha loka]

It doesn't matter because no one is ever going to know for sure.

After eight years of replaying the same ten video clips over and over, if it were obviously controlled demolition and/or an inside job, it would have been obvious to everyone by now.

No one is ever going to find a secret memo which says that Bush planned it.

No whistleblower is ever going to say 'Yes, it was Cheney. Here are his orders.'

The people who know what happened are either dead, not talking, or both.

There will be no paper trail or other solid evidence to disprove the official story. (Which is obviously nonsense - but not in a neat, legally binding, stand up in a court of law kind of a way.)

All that's left of 9/11 now is an excellent time sink. People who think they're going to find proof of The Truth are deluding themselves - and that's as true if space aliens did it, if Cheney ordered it personally, if it was a tragic and bizarre accident, or if it really was a bunch of nutjobs with box cutters.

[steevo]

It doesn't matter because no one is ever going to know for sure.

After eight years of replaying the same ten video clips over and over, if it were obviously controlled demolition and/or an inside job, it would have been obvious to everyone by now.

No one is ever going to find a secret memo which says that Bush planned it.

No whistleblower is ever going to say 'Yes, it was Cheney. Here are his orders.'

The people who know what happened are either dead, not talking, or both.

There will be no paper trail or other solid evidence to disprove the official story. (Which is obviously nonsense - but not in a neat, legally binding, stand up in a court of law kind of a way.)

All that's left of 9/11 now is an excellent time sink. People who think they're going to find proof of The Truth are deluding themselves - and that's as true if space aliens did it, if Cheney ordered it personally, if it was a tragic and bizarre accident, or if it really was a bunch of nutjobs with box cutters.

Yes but in a court of "law", EVIDENCE is what counts (not "proof"), and of course a judge and a jury. That is the way that the current system works.

[bard]

Some folks here are being unreasonable.

Noam Chomsky is as decent, honest and honorable man as you would find today in all of mainstream US academia. You can't expect too much from the man, he is in his 80s and he has a certain way of looking at the world, may be too materialistic for the taste of some. In his world there is no Atlantis connection, no reptilians, no secret societies, no symbolism, no Anunnaki, no nothing. It is all due to the blind pursuit of profit. And do not expect him to go around bashing his own people, blood won't turn to water as they say. He has been more critical of the policies of the Israeli government than any other intellectual I can think of. Of course he can get away with that, if I say it, I'll be immediately branded as an anti-Semite.

Concerning the 911 issue, what I think he is trying to say is that we now must live with the consequences of the event, not that it is impossible that there was some involvement (direct of indirect) of the US government.
The average Homer Simpson has been pre-conditioned by the system and
will not believe that 911 was an inside job, no matter how much evidence
is out there.


In any case, do not you speak badly of the man! He had done enough already. It is now our turn to fight the bad guys and destroy their corrupt, evil oppressive, inhumane system.

[vladmir]

Didn't he say that even if 9-11 was an inside job, which he doesn't believe, it doesn't matter because there are more important things to focus on?
yes he did. that schmuck. :mad:

[kappy0405]

. In his world there is no Atlantis connection, no reptilians, no secret societies, no symbolism, no Anunnaki, no nothing. It is all due to the blind pursuit of profit.


All of those are speculation, so fair enough.. except for the 'secret societies' bit. This is what I meant by his lack of attention to detail. He repeatedly mentions the corporatocracy, but is almost never specific to the Rockefeller/Rothschild role in all of it. That is sad because it's so obvious that the fuckers have basically admitted to it. To deny that groups such as the CFR, Trilateral Commission, Bilderbergers, etc have vast influence is extremely incorrect and misleading. It must be intentional because he's far too intelligent not to realize it. Imo, he's just maintaining his credibility though, and I don't think that equates to him being a shill, just a scared & naive person interested more in notoriety than detailed information.

Alls he's done in his career is create tension & discontent for the government among thousands of people though, so he's on the right track! ;)

...

As for 911 being an 'inside job', anyone who has done even a little bit of unbiased research on the subject knows that it was, but I'm not really sure it matters that much either.

What the government DID do, even as far as info available to the public, is just as deceptive and immoral.

-PNAC proves the 'Bush administration' wanted/needed it to happen years before they even were the 'Bush administration'.
-PNAC proves that they had an entire blueprint layed out IF it did happen.
-They clearly knew about the attacks prior, and deliberately dropped the ball
-They lied about several things, and planted evidence to solidify their theory of the event in order to carry out their previously set agenda
-They used & manipulated it to carry out a competely imperialistic agenda

All this info is blatantly available to the public, so why does it matter whether they 'planned' the event or not?

8 years later, activists are still spending a majority of their time trying to prove 911 was an inside job, when they should be focusing directly on the New World Order and how the bankers influence creates policies that encourage that. 911 is almost irrelevant at this point, imo..

[motleyhoo]

Chomsky ain't no shill...

He's bigger than that.

Chomsky is a gatekeeper of the intellectual left.

His statements on 9/11 were mind-boggling... :eek:

Chomsky says that he is right and anyone who goes beyond him is a fruitbat.

He's a left wing intellectual fascist, stalinist...

Waaaaannnnnkkkkkeeeerrrrrrrrr! :D

So I take it you disagree with him about the fact that greed is a major motive for our societies' ills, and I guess you also disagree with him about the fact that corporations control the press and only tell people what they want them to hear? I mean, given the fact that he's a fascist wanker and all.

You know, not everyone can be right about everything, and I'd wager there is no one person who is right about everything, not a single living soul. So, if your yardstick about who to believe is that he/she must be right about everything, that path to the truth you're on is gonna be a sad and lonely one. Of course, you could always stand behind whoever tells you just what you want to hear (HINT: they're called politicians).

.

[helloperator]

He passively allows the interviewer to label Bin Laden and the Taliban exactly the way that they have been labelled by the establishment, without ever jumping in and saying...hang on a minute...the Taliban did not do 911....Bin Laden is not who we are told he is.

So...Chomsky is really just like a fairy book reader of nighttime bedtime stories for infants as far as I am concerned.

[romas]

Chomsky to me looks like a true history book, if you want to teach your kids history give them his books, there are very few honest books out there, every system teaches lies.

But he doesn't really go into core of the problem though, his judgements pass on faceless systems, ultimately it's all about platos republic even if he does not admit to it.

[romas]

Its stupid saying that Chomsky is CIA shill only because he doesnt talk about the big "conspiracy" picture.

The big picture to our problems is not the grand conspiracy.

As Robert Anton Wilson said: The biggest conspiracy is the conspiracy of the stupid".
And we as Humans bring it upon ourselves.




Agree, stupidity is the new and the old cool, people love being stupid, it's easy living.

[runciter]

In fact, for years he did not speak about Israel while he was speaking out about the US in Central America and Vietnam. It was a mutual friend of ours, Dr. Israel Shahak, who convinced Chomsky that he should speak up against what Israel is doing to the Palestinians. It is interesting that the most important book that Chomsky wrote about the Israeli-Palestinian issue, The Fateful Triangle, begins actually with a defense of Israel, a defense in the sense that while acknowledging all the Israeli crimes against the Palestinians, he blames the US for allowing it to happen. Now, this defense, I would say, could be used by Pinochet in Chile or any dictator the US has supported around the world, to take the primary responsibility from them and place it on the US. And I don’t buy this. And most people who understand the situation, don’t buy it either when they come to look at it. A number of friends of mine, who are friends of Chomsky, have come to agree with me. The problem is, I would say, as fellow academics, that they don't feel comfortable criticizing Chomsky, particularly since he is often attacked by the right wing.

He has defended many people who have been under attack and has thus gained their loyalty. He also has been a mentor to a number of academics, and ironically, Chomsky has been the doorway for so many people to become involved in politics. They read Chomsky, and they become excited about political work. And it is only later, if they are fortunate, that they discover that Chomsky not only opens the door, he closes it as well!

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/us_ints/nc-blankfort.html

[dreamweaver]

i like chomsky. he's been one of the few guys who spoke out against u.s. imperialism and the evils of capitalism- but he does tend to veer towards communism sometimes which imo isn't any better.

He considers himself an anarchist though.

I like his style too, he talks of nuances and complexity and shades of grey, he doesn't talk in terms of black and white. That's a sign of his intellect to me; simple theories of the world are for simple people.

[runciter]

He considers himself an anarchist though.

I like his style too, he talks of nuances and complexity and shades of grey, he doesn't talk in terms of black and white. That's a sign of his intellect to me; simple theories of the world are for simple people.

S.C. : Which would mean that Chomsky gives less importance to the pro-Israeli lobby than it has? Has Chomsky upheld unjust options for the Palestinians in order to preserve Israel, for which he has an emotional attachment? Is this a unique case or has Chomsky defended the indefensible?

Jeffrey Blankfort : For the most part. On most other subjects, he is more open. On this particular one, he won’t even debate the issue. In 1991 we had an exchange that was published in a left newspaper in New York, the National Guardian, and a friend there wanted to set up a debate between Chomsky and myself on the issue of the Israel lobby at the Socialist Scholars Conference. Chomsky refused, writing "that it would not be useful." After his refusal, I asked a professor in California, Joel Beinin, whom I know, and who takes Chomsky’s position, if he would debate me. His response was identical: "it would not be useful!"

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/us_ints/nc-blankfort.html

[dreamweaver]

S.C. : Which would mean that Chomsky gives less importance to the pro-Israeli lobby than it has? Has Chomsky upheld unjust options for the Palestinians in order to preserve Israel, for which he has an emotional attachment? Is this a unique case or has Chomsky defended the indefensible?

Have you actually read The Fateful Triangle?

[runciter]

Have you actually read The Fateful Triangle?

i've read a couple of his books, maybe more, but not the fateful triangle.

should i read it now that i know what is chomsky's position on this subject?

[dreamweaver]

i've read a couple of his books, maybe more, but not the fateful triangle.

should i read it now that i know what is chomsky's position on this subject?
Well, he criticises the American government, media and intellectuals for their pro-Zionist bias and Edward Said praises the book in the foreword. What more do you want from Chomsky?

[runciter]

S.C. : To help the Palestinians get justice, those who support them – or who at least pretend to – must speak the truth. However, it seems as if, even in their own camp, this truth is suffocated. Do you think that in the US, as in Europe, this solidarity has failed because it is led by people who are there to put breaks on any criticism of Israel? Do you think Chomsky's influence is exercised in this way?

Jeffrey Blankfort : The pro-Palestinian movement has been totally ineffectual here for a couple of reasons. One is they refuse to recognize the role the lobby plays. That’s like going out to play a football game, but you don’t go to the stadium, you go a shopping mall instead. If you are not on the field where the game is played you are not going to win.

So here is the most powerful lobby in the United States, which the Palestinian solidarity movement has ignored with the exception of an occasional picket of AIPAC. One of the reasons is it has been influenced by certain ideological Marxist groups that are still living in another day and age where lobbies did not play a part. I have been told by political activists that to talk about the lobby is not Marxist, or talk about the lobby is not socialist. And my response is that it exists, it’s real, and that is what's important. Also, there are many self-styled Jewish anti-Zionists in the leadership positions in the movement who claim that to blame the lobby is to provoke anti-Semitism. In this, they are what I call, "Jewish exceptionalists" who bar any criticism from acts that Jews do collectively, such as lobbying for Israel which makes them, in practice, scarcely distinguishable from Zionists

And what happens is I hear all of these people dismissing the lobby and quoting Chomsky verbatim without even mentioning his name.

His influence on them is so critical, so powerful, that they internalize Chomsky. And so what happens is you have a movement that refuses to recognize the major opponent of the Palestinians on American soil.

Chomsky came out against divestment at MIT, the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, where he teaches, and where he was able to water down a divestment resolution. Then he came out two weeks later and attacked the whole divestment issue. He is against sanctions against Israel, he is against divestment, he has not revealed any kind of agenda that would change things other than having people ‘write letters to the editor’.

He never mentions Congress, he never mentions the Appropriation committees. If he mentions aid to Congress, he won’t say you have to stop it. He will mention it like it a fact of life, like it’s raining or it’s sunny. I wrote to him about this and he was not very friendly when he wrote back.

In 1988-95 I published a magazine called the Middle East Labor Bulletin which Chomsky subscribed to. In the magazine I had a special section on the Israel lobby and Congress, in which I revealed the names of the Congress people who were in bed with the lobby and I published the sources, most of which came from the Jewish press. So anyone reading the magazine would have had ample proof about control by the lobby of Congress. I recently reread some of the issues published twelve years ago, and they could have been written today, so he can't play ignorant. I just believe his early Zionist leanings and his fears for the future of Jews is so great that it's like he's a child refusing to face the truth. It is unfortunate.

Chomsky is what we call here in this country, a gatekeeper. He is also a gatekeeper on another critical subject, the events of 9/11, dismissing the many questions that have been raised about the official narrative of the Bush administration on the attack on the World Trade Centre. Chomsky says there is no basis to question Mr. Bush's 9/11 story. So most of the criticism that he is getting is from people who have been doing research on 9/11, while he continues to say the story that the Bush administration has told is the truth. So the role he pushes today on the international stage is, as far as I am concerned, a reactionary one.

He says a lot of very positive things much of which I agree with, and again, I know many people who say they were introduced to the political world by Chomsky. He has clearly turned people on. But today, it may be a dialectical situation, now he turns people off, or in the wrong direction.

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/us_ints/nc-blankfort.html

[runciter]

Well, he criticises the American government, media and intellectuals for their pro-Zionist bias and Edward Said praises the book in the foreword. What more do you want from Chomsky?

he's somehow protecting the lobby, according to blankfort.

[hordeari]

Chomsky ain't no shill...

He's bigger than that.

Chomsky is a gatekeeper of the intellectual left.

.......


ya .. very well said

smth like aj for patriot/truth movement :D

[bard]

he's somehow protecting the lobby, according to blankfort.

The lobby could care less about Chomsky, it does not need him to protect them.
You folks do not seem to realize under what kind of harsh constraints Jewish
intellectuals must operate. Ethnicity always comes first for them. If you are a dissenter you are immediately excommunicated and labeled a self-hating Jew.
Taking into account the exceptionally narrow limits, allowed for dissent within the Jewish community, Chomsky has done pretty well in my opinion.

[runciter]

The lobby could care less about Chomsky, it does not need him to protect them.
You folks do not seem to realize under what kind of harsh constraints Jewish
intellectuals must operate. Ethnicity always comes first for them. If you are a dissenter you are immediately excommunicated and labeled a self-hating Jew.
Taking into account the exceptionally narrow limits, allowed for dissent within the Jewish community, Chomsky has done pretty well in my opinion.

what would happen if he spoke openly about the influence of the jewish lobby?

he's helping them to remain nearly invisible to the eyes of a huge number of "dissenters".

[bard]

what would happen if he spoke openly about the influence of the jewish lobby?


Well, let's compare:

A. Noam Chomsky - world-known scholar and political dissident, happily retired from MIT
B. Norman Finkelstein - unemployed, broken down middle-aged man

he's helping them to remain nearly invisible to the eyes of a huge number of "dissenters".

How can they possibly be invisible to anyone having 1 brain cell? These "dissenters" who do not see the big picture are just a bunch of fools.

[decode reality]

Chomsky ain't no shill...

He's bigger than that.

Chomsky is a gatekeeper of the intellectual left.

His statements on 9/11 were mind-boggling... :eek:

Chomsky says that he is right and anyone who goes beyond him is a fruitbat.

He's a left wing intellectual fascist, stalinist...

Waaaaannnnnkkkkkeeeerrrrrrrrr! :D

I pretty much agree, Anthony.

Here's an article I read a couple of years ago that goes into more detail.

http://educate-yourself.org/cn/noamchomskygatekepper26sep05.shtml

[runciter]

Well, let's compare:

A. Noam Chomsky - world-known scholar and political dissident, happily retired from MIT
B. Norman Finkelstein - unemployed, broken down middle-aged man



How can they possibly be invisible to anyone having 1 brain cell? These "dissenters" who do not see the big picture are just a bunch of fools.

what if chomsky started to speak about the lobby now? if he wrote a book on this subject?

or is he a heartless jewish supremacist that doesn't give a shit about the consequences of zionism?

i'm sure he can understand how the system he's defending condemns millions of people to live in poverty.

and it also encourages conflicts, and any kind of human suffering that can be economically exploited by the elite.

[reptileslayer]

Didn't he say that even if 9-11 was an inside job, which he doesn't believe, it doesn't matter because there are more important things to focus on?

I mean I'm not surprised that he is called a shill. He's all like "Israel is a puppet of the United States" and shit...Damn, give me a break, man.
This is the ridiculous statement that exposes him as an extremely dodgy character indeed.

[tyler]

This has been an exceptionally lucid and informative thread for the Icke forum.
I used to admire Chomsky for years but I do feel he never goes beyond a certain point in his search for truth. He really should in his latter years come out and expose Israel for the evil state that it is.

Whenever I was accused of being an anti-semite for my views on the rogue state of Israel I would always point to Chomsky, a Jew, as one of my favourite people. I don't do that so much anymore.

[dreamweaver]

Didn't he say that even if 9-11 was an inside job, which he doesn't believe, it doesn't matter because there are more important things to focus on?

These are the exact words he said...

Chomsky dispels 9/11 conspiracies with sheer logic - YouTube

He didn't give the video that silly title, of course.