Statutory Crimes which dont raise revenue

[1694]

Take a look through www.opsi.go.uk

You will find loads of crimes where the sentance is prison not fines...rape, setting up landmines, stopping a drowning swimmer from saving themselves etc.

Statutory crimes, not for raising revenue, nothing to do with commerce.

[bsmurph83]

ok... I'm not sure if anyone had suggested that 100% of statutory crimes were purely for revenue raising. SOME obviously are. some might appear to be more about the benefit of the person, which is, after all, government property (until claimed by us)... I'd be interested to see other comments on this. what the purpose/motivation behind certain statutes would be. perhaps some statutes really are passed for the benefit of the many people currently acting as persons...

[yozhik]

ok... I'm not sure if anyone had suggested that 100% of statutory crimes were purely for revenue raising. SOME obviously are. some might appear to be more about the benefit of the person, which is, after all, government property (until claimed by us)... I'd be interested to see other comments on this. what the purpose/motivation behind certain statutes would be. perhaps some statutes really are passed for the benefit of the many people currently acting as persons...

Of course there are some "good" statutes.
No-one ever suggested they were all evil in intent.
However, collectively, they are.

Some of the statutes are specifically designed to facilitate the handing out of shiny trinkets, bling bling benefits and pristine privileges.

... and we all know, the best way to catch a big fish is to stick a smaller fish on a nice, barbed, hidden hook.

There is no such thing as a free lunch ...
Quid pro quo.

[yozhik]

Take a look through www.opsi.go.uk

You will find loads of crimes where the sentance is prison not fines...rape, setting up landmines, stopping a drowning swimmer from saving themselves etc.

Statutory crimes, not for raising revenue, nothing to do with commerce.

You might find this an interesting read ...

Did you know that prisoners are bonded and given a cusip number, which is pooled with all the other bonds and traded on the stock market under the name of the bonding warehouse (prison) where they keep the surety (person)?

The cusip number is supposedly made up of the persons government created ID number, either Social Security Number or TFN or whatever.

The prisoner is released when the bond matures, and they have finished earning their profits (interest)

SOURCE: Full Article (http://www.loveforlife.com.au/node/5809)

[chesterd]

Take a look through www.opsi.go.uk

You will find loads of crimes where the sentance is prison not fines...rape, setting up landmines, stopping a drowning swimmer from saving themselves etc.

Statutory crimes, not for raising revenue, nothing to do with commerce.

Just because there is no fine (bail in other words) it matters little.The real meat and potatoes of any court case are the bonds issued against the case number.They being "Bid Bond" this is written upon arrest.The "Performance Bond" and the "Payment Bond".Because every statute has a monetary value (matters little if there is a fine attached for the breach of contract) the actual Statute has whats called a "Penal Sum".If you do not close the account (which you won't because how many out there know whats going on) the court will sue you for NON PAYMENT OF DEBT.From that point an automatic "DEFAULT JUDGMENT" is issued and you go to jail.
A Default Judgment is a "DEBT INSTRUMENT" with monetary value.This instrument is then sold.
Anyone starting to hear the word "DERIVATIVES" banded about in the credit crunch?? Well Court Bonds are a big part of DERIVATIVES.
All court cases produce bonds and are issued either CUSIP (Committee on Uniform Security Identification Procedures) or SEDOL (Stock Exchange Official Daily List) numbers both of which are derivatives.
CUSIP and SEDOL numbers are traded through either "SURETY" or "REINSURANCE" companies.
The major one being CUSIP.
CUSIP is a trademark of STANDARD AND POORS.CUSIP has whats termed C.I.N.S. which is Cusip International Numbering System and I.S.N.D which is International Securities Identification Division.
They are either sold through the DTC (Depository Trust Corporation) or in Europe , Belgium ,EUROSTREAM.
The bonds are sold as "INVESTMENT SECURITIES" and you can track them on the various stock exchanges.The one in the states is CCA (Correction Corporation of America).

So in conclusion the money is in the BONDS and not the little bail fines that Statutes give rise to.

Peace Chester

ps the wabbit hole goes much deeper and I'll go a bit further if any one's interested

[the worm that turned]

ps the wabbit hole goes much deeper and I'll go a bit further if any one's interested

yes please!

[bsmurph83]

As Neo says to Tank in the Matrix; "Hell yes."

Do go on, Chesterd... all ears here... i love a good voyage down the wabbit hole.

[1694]

Just because there is no fine (bail in other words) it matters little.The real meat and potatoes of any court case are the bonds issued against the case number.They being "Bid Bond" this is written upon arrest.The "Performance Bond" and the "Payment Bond".Because every statute has a monetary value (matters little if there is a fine attached for the breach of contract) the actual Statute has whats called a "Penal Sum".If you do not close the account (which you won't because how many out there know whats going on) the court will sue you for NON PAYMENT OF DEBT.From that point an automatic "DEFAULT JUDGMENT" is issued and you go to jail.
A Default Judgment is a "DEBT INSTRUMENT" with monetary value.This instrument is then sold.
Anyone starting to hear the word "DERIVATIVES" banded about in the credit crunch?? Well Court Bonds are a big part of DERIVATIVES.
All court cases produce bonds and are issued either CUSIP (Committee on Uniform Security Identification Procedures) or SEDOL (Stock Exchange Official Daily List) numbers both of which are derivatives.
CUSIP and SEDOL numbers are traded through either "SURETY" or "REINSURANCE" companies.
The major one being CUSIP.
CUSIP is a trademark of STANDARD AND POORS.CUSIP has whats termed C.I.N.S. which is Cusip International Numbering System and I.S.N.D which is International Securities Identification Division.
They are either sold through the DTC (Depository Trust Corporation) or in Europe , Belgium ,EUROSTREAM.
The bonds are sold as "INVESTMENT SECURITIES" and you can track them on the various stock exchanges.The one in the states is CCA (Correction Corporation of America).

So in conclusion the money is in the BONDS and not the little bail fines that Statutes give rise to.

Peace Chester

ps the wabbit hole goes much deeper and I'll go a bit further if any one's interested

Sorry you lost me a little.

Where is the revenue stream and how is it generated? Bonds are bought because they make a return. Where do these bonds generate a return for the buyer? Imprisoning someone costs money.

You say its a debt instrument with a monetary value. The monetary value of a debt is its net present value, the future discounted cash flows. This is where I get stuck, where is the cash flow?

[yozhik]

Sorry you lost me a little.

Where is the revenue stream and how is it generated? Bonds are bought because they make a return. Where do these bonds generate a return for the buyer? Imprisoning someone costs money.

You say its a debt instrument with a monetary value. The monetary value of a debt is its net present value, the future discounted cash flows. This is where I get stuck, where is the cash flow?

All questions to ask the bond traders who deal in derivatives including those of prisoners.

You asked how a sentence for rape resulted in revenue generation; you were given two replies with the same single answer, from varying sources.

Next step; talk to a derivatives trader, armed with the small amount of info you have been presented, or do further research using the information provided as a starting point. If you are genuinely interested ... genuinely ... you will pick up the ball and run with it. :)

[1694]

All questions to ask the bond traders who deal in derivatives including those of prisoners.

You asked how a sentence for rape resulted in revenue generation; you were given two replies with the same single answer, from varying sources.

Next step; talk to a derivatives trader, armed with the small amount of info you have been presented, or do further research using the information provided as a starting point. If you are genuinely interested ... genuinely ... you will pick up the ball and run with it. :)

The answers made no sense at all. Lots of anacronyms and no logic. A prisoner does not represent a stream of revenue, they are a liability not an assett.

There is no way that prosecuting a rapist can be used as a revenue generation excersise.

I know what a bond and a "dervitive" (which is a term applied to any contract deriving its value from an underlying asett, futures, options etc.) are. The term doesnt apply to a prisoner.

The answere with all the addreviations has no sources, doesnt make any sense, yet is just accepted. There is no evidence these markets exist, there is no logic to a market for these "products" who would buy a bond to PAY the future costs of housing a prisoner?

A bond is based on a return on investement, that is why people buy them, if the prisoner produces no future revenue who would buy the bond?

Look up what a bond is and how it works; Muni Bonds, Sewer Bonds, Corporate Bonds etc. Look at the model, the investors buy the bonds, recive a yield from the activities of the bond issuer, then get their money back on experation.

Housing prisoners is not a revenue generator.

[chesterd]

Sorry you lost me a little.

Where is the revenue stream and how is it generated? Bonds are bought because they make a return. Where do these bonds generate a return for the buyer? Imprisoning someone costs money.

You say its a debt instrument with a monetary value. The monetary value of a debt is its net present value, the future discounted cash flows. This is where I get stuck, where is the cash flow?

Ok first of all any derivative or bond ect ect is deemed a "COMMERCIAL ITEM" which is "COMMERCIAL PAPER"
Anything with a signature on it is considered a "Negotiable Instrument"
Every time you endorse a commercial item you are becoming whats called an "ACCOMMODATION PARTY/MAKER".
That is considered a loan of your signature.When you loan your signature they (banks reinsurers ect ect) can reproduce it on any financial document they want.Before you say "OH NO THEY CAN"T? read UCC 3-419.

As far as cash flow....where have you been living the past 70 odd years.The only time any sort of cash is derived from any commercial instrument is when it passes through a bank.Banks can do one thing no other financial institution can (CONVERSION).All they ever do is convert someone elses credit/debit to cash through the "Fractional reserve" process.How do you think new money is created in the system??

The bonds generate huge sums by being traded.Remember the"accommodation party" mentioned above and "lending of signature" .Buy a bond with a signature on it and bingo "PRINTING PRESS".

You're right imprisoning someone cost money.Your damn right it does and a nice business it is too.They create paper terrorists (so called statute breakers) and then trade their bonds on derivative markets and as the numbers increase ,build more prisons to hold more so called prisoners.The the Gov get to borrow more money (debt) from the Fed who can charge more interest and demand more tax.It's like an ever expanding bubble which is about to pop very soon and take everything with it.
The only true thing about all of this is "MONEY ISN'T REAL"
The very people Gov's claim to be protecting are the ones being held and used to fund the system through ignorance.It's truly a sick fooked up world.
I have a pdf which contains the whole story of whats going on if you would like a copy pm me.
Peace everyone

[1694]

Ok first of all any derivative or bond ect ect is deemed a "COMMERCIAL ITEM" which is "COMMERCIAL PAPER"
Anything with a signature on it is considered a "Negotiable Instrument"
Every time you endorse a commercial item you are becoming whats called an "ACCOMMODATION PARTY/MAKER".
That is considered a loan of your signature.When you loan your signature they (banks reinsurers ect ect) can reproduce it on any financial document they want.Before you say "OH NO THEY CAN"T? read UCC 3-419.

As far as cash flow....where have you been living the past 70 odd years.The only time any sort of cash is derived from any commercial instrument is when it passes through a bank.Banks can do one thing no other financial institution can (CONVERSION).All they ever do is convert someone elses credit/debit to cash through the "Fractional reserve" process.How do you think new money is created in the system??

The bonds generate huge sums by being traded.Remember the"accommodation party" mentioned above and "lending of signature" .Buy a bond with a signature on it and bingo "PRINTING PRESS".

You're right imprisoning someone cost money.Your damn right it does and a nice business it is too.They create paper terrorists (so called statute breakers) and then trade their bonds on derivative markets and as the numbers increase ,build more prisons to hold more so called prisoners.The the Gov get to borrow more money (debt) from the Fed who can charge more interest and demand more tax.It's like an ever expanding bubble which is about to pop very soon and take everything with it.
The only true thing about all of this is "MONEY ISN'T REAL"
The very people Gov's claim to be protecting are the ones being held and used to fund the system through ignorance.It's truly a sick fooked up world.
I have a pdf which contains the whole story of whats going on if you would like a copy pm me.
Peace everyone

For a bond to be traded, someone has to belive it has a Net Present Value, that is how they determine market price. What are they trading? What is the product, what is its value and how is it determined? Ever other bond is valued by the future discounted cash flows.

You seem to have confused yourself with a mass of techno jargon, in which you have actualy said nothing.

You dont trade bonds on derivitives markets, you trade them on the bonds market. Derivatives on different markets, futures on the futrures market, CBOE etc. Many are private derivitives, not traded on a regulated market.

A bond is only its promise to repay, where is the promise to repay in this model? the prisoner is not repaying, infact they are costing.

[yozhik]

So, will you do the research yourself, using CUSIP, bonding warehouse and CCA as a starting point?
Or will you just reject the information posted in response to your OP and ask the questions you have the ability to research and answer yourself?

Do you expect some one on this forum to give you the answer, that you obviously have all intentions of rejecting because of firmly held preconceived notions?

Or are you genuinely interested and prepared to do the hard yards yourself?

[1694]

So, will you do the research yourself, using CUSIP, bonding warehouse and CCA as a starting point?
Or will you just reject the information posted in response to your OP and ask the questions you have the ability to research and answer yourself?

Do you expect some one on this forum to give you the answer, that you obviously have all intentions of rejecting because of firmly held preconceived notions?

Or are you genuinely interested and prepared to do the hard yards yourself?

I will indeed have a look, if chester would like to upload the PDF to rapid share and post a link in this thread I will gladly read it. If the info is accurate, chester is perhapse not explaining it as I would understand.

As it currently stands this thread is the equivelent of asking:
"Where do babies come from?"
And being told:
"Purple monkey dishwasher."

[yozhik]

As it currently stands this thread is the equivelent of asking:
"Where do babies come from?"
And being told:
"Purple monkey dishwasher."

Oh c'mon 1694 ... what a retarded comment!

Purple monkey dishwasher ... for fucks sake ... EVERYONE knows babies come from the garden under the pumpkin leaves.

[1694]

Oh c'mon 1694 ... what a retarded comment!

Purple monkey dishwasher ... for fucks sake ... EVERYONE knows babies come from the garden under the pumpkin leaves.

Only when a mummy and daddy love each other very much.....so if its a one night drunken fun shag you'll be fine.;)

[rosix]

what if the living-soul's being in prison renders it a commodity/SLAVE with intrinsic value, thereby giving the bond value etc.

[yozhik]

I was given information that there are supposedly up to 10 different bonds/securities/negotiable instruments issued on each and every one of us, through our lifetime; birth certificate and marriage certificate being just two examples.

[1694]

what if the living-soul's being in prison renders it a commodity/SLAVE with intrinsic value, thereby giving the bond value etc.

I dont think you know what "intrinsic value" means.

[dharmic one]

I dont think you know what "intrinsic value" means.

in⋅trin⋅sic
  /ɪnˈtrɪnsɪk, -zɪk/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [in-trin-sik, -zik] Show IPA
–adjective
1. belonging to a thing by its very nature: the intrinsic value of a gold ring.
2. Anatomy. (of certain muscles, nerves, etc.) belonging to or lying within a given part.
Also, in⋅trin⋅si⋅cal.

Origin:
1480–90; < ML intrinsecus inward (adj.), L (adv.), equiv. to intrin- (int(e)r-, as in interior + -im adv. suffix) + secus beside, deriv. of sequī to follow

Related forms:
in⋅trin⋅si⋅cal⋅ly, adverb

Synonyms:
1. native, innate, natural, true, real. See essential.

Antonyms:
1. extrinsic.

val⋅ue
  /ˈvælyu/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [val-yoo] Show IPA noun, verb, -ued, -u⋅ing.
–noun
1. relative worth, merit, or importance: the value of a college education; the value of a queen in chess.
2. monetary or material worth, as in commerce or trade: This piece of land has greatly increased in value.
3. the worth of something in terms of the amount of other things for which it can be exchanged or in terms of some medium of exchange.
4. equivalent worth or return in money, material, services, etc.: to give value for value received.
5. estimated or assigned worth; valuation: a painting with a current value of $500,000.
6. denomination, as of a monetary issue or a postage stamp.
7. Mathematics.
a. magnitude; quantity; number represented by a figure, symbol, or the like: the value of an angle; the value of x; the value of a sum.
b. a point in the range of a function; a point in the range corresponding to a given point in the domain of a function: The value of x 2 at 2 is 4.
8. import or meaning; force; significance: the value of a word.
9. liking or affection; favorable regard.
10. values, Sociology. the ideals, customs, institutions, etc., of a society toward which the people of the group have an affective regard. These values may be positive, as cleanliness, freedom, or education, or negative, as cruelty, crime, or blasphemy.
11. Ethics. any object or quality desirable as a means or as an end in itself.
12. Fine Arts.
a. degree of lightness or darkness in a color.
b. the relation of light and shade in a painting, drawing, or the like.
13. Music. the relative length or duration of a tone signified by a note.
14. values, Mining. the marketable portions of an orebody.
15. Phonetics.
a. quality.
b. the phonetic equivalent of a letter, as the sound of a in hat, sang, etc.
–verb (used with object)
16. to calculate or reckon the monetary value of; give a specified material or financial value to; assess; appraise: to value their assets.
17. to consider with respect to worth, excellence, usefulness, or importance.
18. to regard or esteem highly: He values her friendship.
Origin:
1275–1325; ME < OF, n. use of fem. ptp. (cf. valuta ) of valoir < L valēre to be worth

Synonyms:
1. utility. Value, worth imply intrinsic excellence or desirability. Value is that quality of anything which renders it desirable or useful: the value of sunlight or good books. Worth implies esp. spiritual qualities of mind and character, or moral excellence: Few knew her true worth. 3. cost, price. 18. prize. See appreciate.

[dharmic one]

what if the living-soul's being in prison renders it a commodity/SLAVE with intrinsic value, thereby giving the bond value etc.

Do not fear to question, as I am of the opinion that to vilify is to resort to the lowest of our intelligence, this is the same tactic used to control children in school. 1694 is simply resorting to preserving without question their present belief systems. This is their reaction to their experience of cognitive dissonance. If 1694 were as intelligent as they pretend they would provide similar evidence to support their statements that they demand of others. They would not resort to vagaries such as "mythical", "techno logic", or "all this is nonsense".

They enjoy making reference to laws of nature or science being the only laws as if they are absolute, yet any follower of scientific literature or in fact anyone who knows much about science knows that these so-called laws have been altered countless times over the millenia to accomodate the contradictions of some paradigms in the process of creating new ones. 1694 is experiencing the cognitive dissonance of a changing paradigm in terms of their understanding of the law. ( little do they know it but they are exoeriencing this in many many aspects of their lives but probably remain oblivious to it) Therefore when people persist in their efforts to empower them to resonate with the information they resort to negativity, ridicule and bile.

Such is the sad experience of many in life who simply cannot cope with the constantly changing world around them. I would love to help 1694 in their suffering yet without their divine nature being acceptable to them, how can I help?? Other than attempt to point out their apparent suffering, should they wish to see it.........

Don't take it personally.......as you will see 1694 doing after I have posted this.....

[1694]

My devine nature.....all I can do is what I can do....its the law ;-)

[dharmic one]

My devine nature.....all I can do is what I can do....its the law ;-)

You even talk like a politician, "all I can do is what I can do" I believe this is called tautology, the endless assurance that the reason for things are the reasons for things. Repeating words until they sound much like they provide an explanation but do nothing of the sort.

Why should I follow the law??

the law is the law.

So-called "authorities" like to use this to control us without ever having to actually explain why they are giving is such instructions. How revelatory that you should employ the very tactic that was used against you all your life by the people who claim "do as we say, not as we do, and because we said it."

People who NEVER had any real authority. You are regurgitating this garbage because it is all you know. You just keep repeating to gain understanding, instead of actually learning the processes and gaining observable facts that lead to understanding and knowing.

You just repeat things to yourself often enough to then claim you know them. Life must be hard for people who take authority as truth, instead of truth as authority.

[1694]

You even talk like a politician, "all I can do is what I can do" I believe this is called tautology, the endless assurance that the reason for things are the reasons for things. Repeating words until they sound much like they provide an explanation but do nothing of the sort.

Why should I follow the law??

the law is the law.

So-called "authorities" like to use this to control us without ever having to actually explain why they are giving is such instructions. How revelatory that you should employ the very tactic that was used against you all your life by the people who claim "do as we say, not as we do, and because we said it."

People who NEVER had any real authority. You are regurgitating this garbage because it is all you know. You just keep repeating to gain understanding, instead of actually learning the processes and gaining observable facts that lead to understanding and knowing.

You just repeat things to yourself often enough to then claim you know them. Life must be hard for people who take authority as truth, instead of truth as authority.

I am not talking about what you call law (rules), and your references to authority, I am talking about "The law" as I have explained to you already.

The law is the law, devine or not we are all bound by it, some might consider laws devine.......science though it does its best to explain them, cant justify the law.

Realise the difference between law and rules called law, colour of law, force of law etc etc.

div.

[dharmic one]

I am not talking about what you call law (rules), and your references to authority, I am talking about "The law" as I have explained to you already.

The law is the law, devine or not we are all bound by it, some might consider laws devine.......science though it does its best to explain them, cant justify the law.

Realize the difference between law and rules called law, colour of law, force of law etc etc.

div.

"I am not talking about what you call law (rules), and your references to authority, I am talking about "The law" as I have explained to you already."

1, you have "explained" nothing of what you say, you merely do not comment directly back on what people ask of you, you merely fight back with more rhetoric, with sentences or paragraphs of very little meaning or significance in the debate because you have nothing but your opinion to quote and analyze as it is the only thing you seem to pay any attention to.

2, where did you explain "the law" then?

3, I don't recall ever defining "the law" on here, I merely pointed out that your explanations don't really count as explanations. They are not backed by anything of substance, hence the "I'm right because I know I am" attitude which let's all face it, is the only mentality you really seem capable of.

I feel that I entirely addressed your "laws of science are the only laws" affirmation in previous posts, so again you fail to clarify in any way the true meaning of your statements.

"The law is the law, devine or not we are all bound by it, some might consider laws devine.......science though it does its best to explain them, cant justify the law."

Again, a simple tautological regurgitation of what you think you know based in majority on a secondary source of information that you cannot quote.

Laughably it is you that asserts...

"Realize the difference between law and rules called law, colour of law, force of law etc etc."

What a joke......I asked you specifically on a previous thread, this question -

"When you state that "NONE of what you call LAWs are laws. They are rules, given force of law, or the so called rule of law.", I feel I must ask what your interpretation of the actually quite ambiguous term "rule of law" actually is?"

From the thread that you failed to show any evidence whatsoever and got blown off the thread - "admiralty law"

You never answered the question as per any other questions I've seen asked of you to further illustrate your points. I feel confident in stating that you cannot illustrate or back up any of the points you have made on these threads by anything other than more vague statements, opinion and abuse.

YOU USE PHRASES SUCH AS "force of law, law is the law, colour of law etc etc etc" as if you know what they all mean. I think you don't. So you rave on sounding really intelligent but not only are you careful not to use these words when someone has questioned you about them but you still revert to name calling as if we are all in the playground!!:eek:

You are a repeater, one who simply regurgitates the opinions of others as their own, with no real depth of understanding of this stuff, for if you did you would simply answer the questions I have posed, including where or what in your "sig" clarifies your statements on the thread admiralty law....page 8 post # 73. :confused:

Have a look everyone at how this being's knowledge, though it sounds fancy and complicated is actually nothing but superficial at best, competent only in name calling, nothing more. You are the only one here using words you do not know the meaning of. Which is why you spew such hatred when you suspect this of others.

I think your frustrations could be easily dealt with if you drop this pretentiousness of sublime intelligence and actually engage thoughtfully and respectfully in the debate, no obligation to so of course...there's no law against what your doing......:D

[dharmic one]

The OP went like this.....

"Default Statutory Crimes which dont raise revenue
Take a look through www.opsi.go.uk

You will find loads of crimes where the sentance is prison not fines...rape, setting up landmines, stopping a drowning swimmer from saving themselves etc.

Statutory crimes, not for raising revenue, nothing to do with commerce.
__________________"

Let's all bear in mind first of all that the burden of proof lies with 1694 here as the one who has affirmed the words above. Before I continue I would like to point out that 1694 has not posted anything since the OP that can be considered as proof. Therefore I feel happy in declaring the thread resolved.

That is unless 1694 would like to enlighten us as to how we interpret these statutes that he has quoted with his OPSI.GOV reference.

[dharmic one]

"As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain; and as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality."

Albert Einstein

"I often wonder whether we do not rest our hopes too much upon constitutions, upon laws and upon courts. These are false hopes; believe me, these are false hopes. Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it..."

Learned Hand

[bsmurph83]

1694, can you clarify for me what you define as law exactly? and also if you can, outline the rationale and logic leading to the conclusion you've drawn (qualify it). I'm trying to get at where exactly you're coming from. I know you'v commented on other threads but I'd like some insight into the thought process that leads to the end belief... much obliged, sir (or maam?)