koolair
21-05-2009, 08:07 PM
Hi everyone,
Here is an update on the legal tender issue:
Canadian Currency Act (http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/showdoc/cs/C-52/bo-ga:l_I-gb:s_8//en) says as long as you pay in a currency of Canada with current coins issued by Royal Canadian Mint, and you don't use more than certain numbers of loonies, toonies, etc, a tender of payment of money is a legal tender. That's a paraphrase/summary. Please follow the link.
Careful because the Act also says the Governor in Council may, by proclamation, call in coins of any date and denomination.
Also, a contract, sale, payment, bill, note, etc....if made in the currency of Canada needs to be paid by the currency of Canada (dollar - Section 3 (1), (2)).
Section 15 states any contract making reference to gold is subject to the Governor in Council making regulations specifying the means to determine the equivalent dollar value of that gold.
This last section was tricky. There are two legal entities we are dealing with. Gold bullion (commodity) and gold coin (legal tender).
I called CCRA on this issue, and after being bounced around, ducking and dodging, weaving and bobbing, someone finally said if the contract says $50 in gold Canadian Maple Leaf coins you report $50. If it is bullion, you are subject to fair market values.
That's it with the Canadian Currency Act.
The Royal Canadian Mint (http://www.mint.ca/store/mint/about-the-mint/investing-1300002?cat=Investing&nId=1300002&nodeGroup=About+the+Mint) confirms the Canadian Maple Leaf coins are legal tender.
Here is some supporting evidence:
Bank of Canada (http://www.bankofcanada.ca/en/banknotes/law.html) website (under BANK NOTES, in Law Enforcement)....scroll down to the bottom, look over to the right. It says :
"What is "legal tender"?
In Canada, it is coins issued by the Royal Canadian Mint and paper money issued by the Bank of Canada.
Payment methods must be mutually acceptable to both parties (e.g. credit or debit card, cheque). Therefore, retailers do not break the law if they refuse bills."
Scotia Mocatta (http://www.scotiamocatta.com/products/glossary.htm) defines "face value" as:
"Face Value
The face value of the coin is the legal tender value of a bullion coin. It is the minimum value guaranteed by the issuer but does not necessarily reflect the current market value."
A guy by the name of Ed Haas has done research on this topic, and got a nice reply back from the IRS (http://muckrakerreport.com/id66.html)......as a skeptic, I'm not sure if the IRS actually emails anybody, so this link is a bit in question. CCRA does not email out anything, I asked them. However, the response from IRS is in line with answers I got from CCRA, so I'll take it at "face value" =)
Well I've scoured the internet for info about use of legal tender, taxation, and corporate write-offs for buying bullion coin to pay invoices/bills. So far this is all I've found while jumping from forum to forum. What I'd really like to know is:
What incentive is there for a corporation to pay it's employees and contractors in gold and silver coin? What fear must be overcome by agents of a corporation in order for them to pay in gold and silver coin. My hope is that entire supply chains start to spontaneously use gold and silver coin as tender in payment of debt. Maybe I'm naive?
Hope this info helps the freeman movement!
Joe
Here is an update on the legal tender issue:
Canadian Currency Act (http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/showdoc/cs/C-52/bo-ga:l_I-gb:s_8//en) says as long as you pay in a currency of Canada with current coins issued by Royal Canadian Mint, and you don't use more than certain numbers of loonies, toonies, etc, a tender of payment of money is a legal tender. That's a paraphrase/summary. Please follow the link.
Careful because the Act also says the Governor in Council may, by proclamation, call in coins of any date and denomination.
Also, a contract, sale, payment, bill, note, etc....if made in the currency of Canada needs to be paid by the currency of Canada (dollar - Section 3 (1), (2)).
Section 15 states any contract making reference to gold is subject to the Governor in Council making regulations specifying the means to determine the equivalent dollar value of that gold.
This last section was tricky. There are two legal entities we are dealing with. Gold bullion (commodity) and gold coin (legal tender).
I called CCRA on this issue, and after being bounced around, ducking and dodging, weaving and bobbing, someone finally said if the contract says $50 in gold Canadian Maple Leaf coins you report $50. If it is bullion, you are subject to fair market values.
That's it with the Canadian Currency Act.
The Royal Canadian Mint (http://www.mint.ca/store/mint/about-the-mint/investing-1300002?cat=Investing&nId=1300002&nodeGroup=About+the+Mint) confirms the Canadian Maple Leaf coins are legal tender.
Here is some supporting evidence:
Bank of Canada (http://www.bankofcanada.ca/en/banknotes/law.html) website (under BANK NOTES, in Law Enforcement)....scroll down to the bottom, look over to the right. It says :
"What is "legal tender"?
In Canada, it is coins issued by the Royal Canadian Mint and paper money issued by the Bank of Canada.
Payment methods must be mutually acceptable to both parties (e.g. credit or debit card, cheque). Therefore, retailers do not break the law if they refuse bills."
Scotia Mocatta (http://www.scotiamocatta.com/products/glossary.htm) defines "face value" as:
"Face Value
The face value of the coin is the legal tender value of a bullion coin. It is the minimum value guaranteed by the issuer but does not necessarily reflect the current market value."
A guy by the name of Ed Haas has done research on this topic, and got a nice reply back from the IRS (http://muckrakerreport.com/id66.html)......as a skeptic, I'm not sure if the IRS actually emails anybody, so this link is a bit in question. CCRA does not email out anything, I asked them. However, the response from IRS is in line with answers I got from CCRA, so I'll take it at "face value" =)
Well I've scoured the internet for info about use of legal tender, taxation, and corporate write-offs for buying bullion coin to pay invoices/bills. So far this is all I've found while jumping from forum to forum. What I'd really like to know is:
What incentive is there for a corporation to pay it's employees and contractors in gold and silver coin? What fear must be overcome by agents of a corporation in order for them to pay in gold and silver coin. My hope is that entire supply chains start to spontaneously use gold and silver coin as tender in payment of debt. Maybe I'm naive?
Hope this info helps the freeman movement!
Joe