Religion=government=control

[mauviene]

All your religions are tools to keep you in line monkeys!!

Why was religion created?

To suppress rebellion??

[miracles]

All your religions are tools to keep you in line monkeys!!

Why was religion created?

To suppress rebellion??

150 million people have been killed in wars in the last century, it hasnt worked very well has it? In fact one could argure that it has caused more wars and rebellions than it has ever prevented. I believe satan is behind all religion and rebellion againts the one true God and he is a fixen for big rebellion very soon abely assisted by the powres that be. In fact the luciferian religion, promotes rebellion. Just ask lucifer horus.

[mauviene]

150 million people have been killed in wars in the last century, it hasnt worked very well has it? In fact one could argure that it has caused more wars and rebellions than it has ever prevented. I believe satan has is behind all relgion. Apart from biblical christianity of course. In fact the luciferian religion, promotes rebellion. Just ask lucifer horus.

Those arnt rebellions as much as their wars of religious ideologies. Read David Ickes global conspiracy. In fact..I think its contradictory that a christian is even on a David Icke board.

[miracles]

Those arnt rebellions as much as their wars of religious ideologies. Read David Ickes global conspiracy. In fact..I think its contradictory that a christian is even on a David Icke board.

I thinks its contradictory that there is a David Icke forum devoted to religion and the members cant seem to resist knocking and absusing people of all faiths. Good job David is an advocate of free speech, or people like you would have us banned and most probably burned at the stake. If there was no religious discussion board knocking Christianity Jesus and the bible at every turn, I wouldnt feel the need to comment. why dont you just all get on with looking at crop circles and keep religion out of it. :D Further more, you have just contradicted your previous post that religion was created to quel rebellion?

[mauviene]

I thinks its contradictory that there is a David Icke forum devoted to religion and the members cant seem to resist knocking and absusing people of all faiths. Good job David is an advocate of free speech, or people like you would have us banned and most probably burned at the stake. If there was no religious discussion board kncking Christianity Jesus and the bible at every trun, I wouldnt feel the need to comment. why dont you just all get on with looking at crop circles and keep religion out of it. :D

Hey, I'm not the one who believes in the eternal damnation of all non-Christians (as idiotic and stupid and childish as that view is). And I'm certainly not evil enough to bring any type of suffering on other beings ;). That of course..maybe economic and social oppressors, but no torment or torture for sure..

[danceswithbunnies]

Ever notice that people resemble the god they worship?

it is no mistake that over 60% of American evangelicals support Bush torturing detaineees.

[miracles]

Ever notice that people resemble the god they worship?

it is no mistake that over 60% of American evangelicals support Bush torturing detaineees.

Right, more irrefutable proof that God is a prick I suppose. Nice mathmatical evidence.

[miracles]

Hey, I'm not the one who believes in the eternal damnation of all non-Christians (as idiotic and stupid and childish as that view is). And I'm certainly not evil enough to bring any type of suffering on other beings ;). That of course..maybe economic and social oppressors, but no torment or torture for sure..

Excellent. Praise the baby killing lord. Have a nice day.:)

PS. If you dont believe in it, then you dont need to worry about those that do

[mauviene]

Excellent. Praise the baby killing lord. Have a nice day.:)

PS. If you dont believe in it, then you dont need to worry about those that do

Depending on if I'm nice enough to help you end your suffering?:)

[miracles]

Depending on if I'm nice enough to help you end your suffering?:)

Actually I hear you buddy.

I think we are all running around trying to rescue each other in this place. ie I think the majority are quite well meaning caring individuals. Regardless of what particular "truth" we hold on too. :)

[mauviene]

Actually I hear you buddy.

I think we are all running around trying to rescue each other in this place. ie I think the majority are quite well meaning caring individuals. Regardless of what particular "truth" we hold on too. :)

Those who wish punishment to sinners are sinners themselves. For the sinner needs love more than does the saint.

[miracles]

Those who wish punishment to sinners are sinners themselves. For the sinner needs love more than does the saint.

Exactly right! Well said. :)

[mauviene]

Exactly right! Well said. :)

Those who believe in god as separate have a void that will never be filled

[miracles]

Those who believe in god as separate have a void that will never be filled

Those who have received Christ have filled the void and the kingdom of heaven lives within them. And its beautiful in there! :)

[uncia]

Ever notice that people resemble the god they worship?

it is no mistake that over 60% of American evangelicals support Bush torturing detaineees.
It is no mistake that all muslims are antichrists.

[manxboz]

It is no mistake that all muslims are antichrists.

Here we go again slagging our arbhamic brothers off again. May i ask why do you hate them so much?

[ex_anser_ovo]

Just about anyone who believes existence seeks to condemn or reward all that is, based on human standards, can go sell their soul to whatever it is they worship. But something is standing behind what they worship. And they are spitting on it's entirety simply because it does not worship them back. :(

[mauviene]

Those who have received Christ have filled the void and the kingdom of heaven lives within them. And its beautiful in there! :)

Jewish mysticism for the same thing that I said. Though of course you don't have to follow the church of Babylon's mythology and have suppressed hatred for all who are not christian. Read some kabbalah and you will realize where the bible got its metaphors from.

[danceswithbunnies]

Right, more irrefutable proof that God is a prick I suppose. Nice mathmatical evidence.

I don't recall stating i had "irrefutable proof" of anything the way you did.

Quite simply here in america a news item came out the other day showing from a poll taken showing that over 60% of evangelicals in this country support Bush's use of torture on detainees.

I am merely noting psycholgical similarities to the God they worship...

[danceswithbunnies]

Just about anyone who believes existence seeks to condemn or reward all that is, based on human standards, can go sell their soul to whatever it is they worship. But something is standing behind what they worship. And they are spitting on it's entirety simply because it does not worship them back. :(

And for those of you who are in doubt about the going rate on a soul today, you can always ask the US government, they set standard market price.

[stfd]

Ever notice that people resemble the god they worship?

it is no mistake that over 60% of American evangelicals support Bush torturing detaineees.

So basically you assume that this "60% of American Evangelicals" are in fact Christian right?

Well tell me... if ummm say i would climb on the top of the highest buiding and yell that i am a martian would you believe me?

Pretty silly huh ?

But then again, that's not what's actually happening right?

One first has to understand what Christianity is , and then talk nonsense...

[stfd]

It is no mistake that all muslims are antichrists.

lol ...

i hope is sarcasm.

[danceswithbunnies]

So basically you assume that this "60% of American Evangelicals" are in fact Christian right?

Well tell me... if ummm say i would climb on the top of the highest buiding and yell that i am a martian would you believe me?

Pretty silly huh ?

But then again, that's not what's actually happening right?

One first has to understand what Christianity is , and then talk nonsense...

ERRRRRR what?

"Evangelical" belief is a subset of "christian" belief.

So what are you saying?
You are implying that they are not christian , that they are lying?

It sounds as if you are going to claim that these are not "true christians" which is an argument christians have been using since the dawn of christianity .

It is also Known as
The NO True Scotsman fallacy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman

[miracles]

I don't recall stating i had "irrefutable proof" of anything the way you did.

Quite simply here in america a news item came out the other day showing from a poll taken showing that over 60% of evangelicals in this country support Bush's use of torture on detainees.

I am merely noting psycholgical similarities to the God they worship...

Thank you Sigmund Fraud

[miracles]

Jewish mysticism for the same thing that I said. Though of course you don't have to follow the church of Babylon's mythology and have suppressed hatred for all who are not christian. Read some kabbalah and you will realize where the bible got its metaphors from.

Off course I dont hate all who are non Christian, but it would appear that many of them hate me. The thing is I know why that is, so I never take it personally.

[miracles]

lol ...

i hope is sarcasm.

Hi stfd, long time no see. I was thinking about you yesturday, and here you are. My Gnosis must be on blue ray high beam. :D

[tracker]

All your religions are tools to keep you in line monkeys!!

Why was religion created?

To suppress rebellion??


and the truth will set you freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee:cool:

[uncia]

lol ...

i hope is sarcasm.
Islam is just a moon-god cult. The big deception of Islam is that Islam is an Abrahimic religion along with Judaism and Christianity and that Allah is the same God as the God of the bible. Check out:

http://users.hubwest.com/prophet/islam/moongod.htm

[danceswithbunnies]

Thank you Sigmund Fraud


You are not winning anyone to Christ with your obnoxious posts that is for certain....and you appear to be typical.
In your fervor to "win arguments" by namecalling, backbiting, and other things prohibited by the epistles, you might consider what effect you are having on hearts and minds.

America is seen as a christian nation worldwide.It is not a christian nation but that is the perception worldwide.

Did you understand that people the world over HATE Christ because of America?

Many many are the people who love Jesus but turn away because of christians.
This last Bush presidency sealed it in the blood of innocents.
I personally believe that that was the plan.

Do you recall the prophetic verses?
2Peter 2:1-2
But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.

Good job miracles...

[danceswithbunnies]

Islam is just a moon-god cult. The big deception of Islam is that Islam is an Abrahimic religion along with Judaism and Christianity and that Allah is the same God as the God of the bible. Check out:

http://users.hubwest.com/prophet/islam/moongod.htm


Are you sure about that?
Elah is the name of "God" in Aramaic...very close to allah.

[miracles]

You are not winning anyone to Christ with your obnoxious posts that is for certain....and you appear to be typical.
In your fervor to "win arguments" by namecalling, backbiting, and other things prohibited by the epistles, you might consider what effect you are having on hearts and minds.

America is seen as a christian nation worldwide.It is not a christian nation but that is the perception worldwide.

Did you understand that people the world over HATE Christ because of America?

Many many are the people who love Jesus but turn away because of christians.
This last Bush presidency sealed it in the blood of innocents.
I personally believe that that was the plan.

Do you recall the prophetic verses?
2Peter 2:1-2
But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.

Good job miracles...

Im not trying to win anyone to Christ. Only God can do that. That's in His hands. I'm simply exposing bullshit for what it is - you dont like it. Tough luck. People hate Christ becuase of Satan, it has nothing to do with America. They hate America, because of George Bushes idiocy and war mongering for profit. The bloke couldnt even string a meaningful sentence together, and yet he was the puppet president for two full terms. Go figure that one out. Even Americans hated what America became under Bush.

Any way if your preach the truth of scripture in this place your accused of being a bible thumping fundmentalist baby killing war mongering rapist child molestor. Not to mention a deluded brain washed fool under the control of the illuminati. Im not trying to win threads and influence sheeple. Im simply joining in the discussion.

[mauviene]

im not trying to win anyone to christ. Only god can do that. That's in his hands. I'm simply exposing bullshit for what it is - you dont like it. Tough luck.

Lucifer is god!!!

(I AM GOD)

[danceswithbunnies]

Im not trying to win anyone to Christ. Only God can do that. That's in His hands. I'm simply exposing bullshit for what it is - you dont like it. Tough luck.

It is very obvious that you are not trying to win anybody to Christ, in fact you are hurting his cause...if you do not like that, tough luck.
you might want to try actually picking up your cross daily working out your salvation in fear and trembling,instead of just talking about being saved..

[miracles]

It is very obvious that you are not trying to win anybody to Christ, in fact you are hurting his cause...if you do not like that, tough luck.
you might want to try actually picking up your cross daily working out your salvation in fear and trembling,instead of just talking about being saved..

Your are an accuser of the bretheran. And an attacker and mocker of Gods word. It is amusing that you are now preaching to me about what it is to be a christian.

This is not a place that welcomes fundamentalist Christian Evangelists, you are aware of that fact are you not?

If you are concerned about the cause of Christ being hurt, lol, there are far bigger fish to fry around here than me pal. Mauviene for one.

PS. I am not doing my best to keep the way clear for genuine seekers of the truth.

[miracles]

Lucifer is god!!!

(I AM GOD)

Hi God, hows it going?

[mauviene]

Are you a Christian?

Christianity:

The wolf in sheep's clothing :p

Come with me little sheep
http://themasterstable.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/jesus_shepherd.jpg

OR ILL SEND YOU TO HELL

http://www.apuritansmind.com/images/MiscImages/hell2.jpg

[miracles]

[QUOTE=mauviene;1001837]Christianity:


I'll take that as a no then God. Thanks for clarifying that. The truth hurts.

[mauviene]

[QUOTE=mauviene;1001837]Christianity:


I'll take that as a no then God. Thanks for clarifying that.

I prefer the term High priest of the sun. :cool:

or Buddah :)

http://brandrea.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/buddha1.jpg

[miracles]

[QUOTE=mauviene;1001846][QUOTE=miracles;1001841]

I prefer the term High priest of the sun. :cool:

or Buddah :)


Okay your Buddah highness. When I die please dont send me back as Pig, they are very badly treated in New Zealand.

[danceswithbunnies]

Your are an accuser of the bretheran. And an attacker and mocker of Gods word. It is amusing that you are now preaching to me about what it is to be a christian.

This is not a place that welcomes fundamentalist Christian Evangelists, you are aware of that fact are you not?

If you are concerned about the cause of Christ being hurt, lol, there are far bigger fish to fry around here than me pal. Mauviene for one.

PS. I am not doing my best to keep the way clear for genuine seekers of the truth.


that's okay, it is more fun watching you all fall on your swords.

[danceswithbunnies]

Lucifer is god!!!

(I AM GOD)


Well,let's put it this way...Lucifer does seem to have some good points.Like i have said before, How many genocides have been committed in his name? How many book burnings? How many burnings at the stake...how many kids molested ...none?

[uncia]

.... in his name? ...none?
That's clever. He always does it in other people's names.

[danceswithbunnies]

That's clever. He always does it in other people's names.


Kinda of like the God of the Bible hmmm?

What an odd coincidence...

[j35p3r4d0]

The title of this thread SHOULD be...

PREDISPOSED DOMINANCE RELIGIONS > INADEQUATE MORAL VALUES > FASCIST GOVERNMENTAL POLICY > ENFORCED CONTROL MECHANISMS

[uncia]

Kinda of like the God of the Bible hmmm?

What an odd coincidence...
Eh? He revealed himself as YWYH and distinguished himself from all other gods as the creator of everything. Can't be more blunt than that.

[darketernal]

For the non-Americans in this thread I should clarify the statistics given. Evangelical Christians are not only the largest Christian faction within the US, they are the largest relgious demographic in the country. 26.1% of Americans in the 2004 national census listed themselves as "Evangelical Christians". They make up over 1/4th of the US population, and were the segment of the population which most supported Bush as well as the war in Iraq.

[danceswithbunnies]

Eh? He revealed himself as YWYH and distinguished himself from all other gods as the creator of everything. Can't be more blunt than that.


That is just his day job.

[stfd]

Hi stfd, long time no see. I was thinking about you yesturday, and here you are. My Gnosis must be on blue ray high beam. :D

Hey dude !
Yea im still breathing yes...

I took a break from this ...umm .. stuff (and nonsense).
Hope youre doing alright.



Good luck!

[stfd]

For the non-Americans in this thread I should clarify the statistics given. Evangelical Christians are not only the largest Christian faction within the US, they are the largest relgious demographic in the country. 26.1% of Americans in the 2004 national census listed themselves as "Evangelical Christians". They make up over 1/4th of the US population, and were the segment of the population which most supported Bush as well as the war in Iraq.

Yea this info is quite accurate...

BUT - if the teaching says that one should not kill, opress, take (or think of taking) that which is not his etc etc but exactly the opposite of this - to LOVE his fellow man, to stand for good - then how fo budha's sake can one assume that a bunch of liers that adopt the "Christian" label and then go and do EXACTLY the opposite of what Christianity stands for ARE-actually-Christians ?!?

How come ?

Well actually a more appropriate question is "why?" .
Is because people are supposed to be missdirected, tricked into believing that "Christians" are doing those things.
Why do people fall for it ? Because thay have 'fallen from God' themselves in the first place. They no longer recognaize wrong from right and lie from truth. Is all a mass of unidentified 'crap' .

And i personally believe is part of the plan to be that way.
Consider this:

If x and y are two people , then z comes into play and assumes x's label and does things unlike a -real- x would; y would consider ALL with the 'label' x as wrong/bad right ?

What's so difficult ?

[stfd]

Lucifer is god!!!

(I AM GOD)

Neither you nor lucifer are god(s).
Is unfortunate if you believe that:(

Pretty twisted avatar you got there btw...

[danceswithbunnies]

Now the deeply interestingthing here...especially brought out by STFD,
and many may disagree wth me, but it appears tome, that many many of the religions (and/or movements) throughout time have had the same problem ...

They start out with good intentions, and end up after decades or sometimes centuries as the exact opposite of what was originally intended.

Maybe it is because of the structure of the brain.

Maybe the world we see is "illusion" because it is largely a reflection of what is in our minds.

When a message come from spirit, it comes to the Right Hemisphere..very intuitive and pure, then it passes through the left hemisphere into words..and after getting bogged down in words for enough time, it becomes the mirror image of what came from the Right Hemisphere to begin with.

Okay, enough rambling ...

[uncia]

That is just his day job.
That was his 6 day job. His seventh day job is to destroy the wicked and save the righteous.

[mauviene]

Neither you nor lucifer are god(s).
Is unfortunate if you believe that:(

Pretty twisted avatar you got there btw...

The term I AM GOD is Vedanta..for the Hindus have a different concept of god than do those Aramaic religions.

God in Hindu mythology is the absolute point of conception which all life flourishes from. Me saying I AM GOD is simply stating that the absolute which all life flourishes from is absolutely me (not the body..but me).

But of course my avatar is not as twisted as your imperialistic family shield you have there? Got violence?

[miracles]

For the non-Americans in this thread I should clarify the statistics given. Evangelical Christians are not only the largest Christian faction within the US, they are the largest relgious demographic in the country. 26.1% of Americans in the 2004 national census listed themselves as "Evangelical Christians". They make up over 1/4th of the US population, and were the segment of the population which most supported Bush as well as the war in Iraq.

They only had two people to vote for, both as bad as each other.

Are you holding the amercican Christians responsible for Bush?

26.1% is not a majority, yes it might be enough to swing an election, so He makes out He is a Christian, Clinton did the same thing. We also know Bush doctered the election results. Still it is abit sad that so many Amercican Christians have been duped by Bush, Im sure the majority of them are as dissapointed as everyone else by Bush.

Further more, are you going to take a pole result delivered by the media as gospel as to how Christians really feel about the matter?

The majority of Americans where duped into thinking war in Iraq was the way to go becuase of the evil of the 911 events, conducted by the Bush administration. The fact that no genuine inquirey and that no one has been held to account of this in the face of undeniable facts, proves one thing. The man in the street, be he christian or atheist, is powerless.

[stfd]

The term I AM GOD is Vedanta..for the Hindus have a different concept of god than do those Aramaic religions.

God in Hindu mythology is the absolute point of conception which all life flourishes from. Me saying I AM GOD is simply stating that the absolute which all life flourishes from is absolutely me (not the body..but me).

But of course my avatar is not as twisted as your imperialistic family shield you have there? Got violence?

The single statement, in itself 'i am god' is above all else a great lie.
How can a creation be 'god' ?
You see mythology has no room here, and has absolutelly nothing to do with what is beying 'discussed' here (actually discussed isn't a good word but whatever).

Hmm 'you' or 'i' or some other individual... is made of two 'things', a material part and a 'spiritual' one, which some (including myself) refer to as 'soul' .

To go further, all things 'flourished' from the creator - which wasn't 'you' or 'i' or some other individual , thats is - God.
God - the Creator.

You see, what Hyndus believe is totally their business, what Muslims believe is totally and entirelly their business as well - i will not go and bash them for their belief. I will however stand for my belief , any day.

"Aramaic Religions" <---- overated therm , and incorrect also...

As for the avatar hmm lets see , a triangle in which purple and pink 'blends' ; and to make it pretier , over this triangle we got the symbols of male AND
female which AGAIN (as the colours) blend and become one.
And now the yin/yang thing , good AND bad simultaneously, true AND false simultaneously , male AND female simultaneously... yea i'd say twisted to the core ...

As for my " imperialistic family shield " well is pretty straight forward , a representation of a certain royal family's herritage.
Nah i ain't got violence, one should rather worry about the warr for his/her soul then the war for this material world - one fades through the ages the other gets to 'exist' for eternity - smarten up...

[danceswithbunnies]

They only had two people to vote for, both as bad as each other.

Are you holding the amercican Christians responsible for Bush?

26.1% is not a majority, yes it might be enough to swing an election, so He makes out He is a Christian, Clinton did the same thing. We also know Bush doctered the election results. Still it is abit sad that so many Amercican Christians have been duped by Bush, Im sure the majority of them are as dissapointed as everyone else by Bush.

Further more, are you going to take a pole result delivered by the media as gospel as to how Christians really feel about the matter?

The majority of Americans where duped into thinking war in Iraq was the way to go becuase of the evil of the 911 events, conducted by the Bush administration. The fact that no genuine inquirey and that no one has been held to account of this in the face of undeniable facts, proves one thing. The man in the street, be he christian or atheist, is powerless.


that's because the majority of americans have been faced with declining wages for 30 years, and are working harder for less.
If you talk to the older generation (in their 70s) they have NO CLUE what the economy is like because jobs were always plentiful for them. I think Kennedy may have been our last real american president...I think they got him into the WH and found out they(being the bankers) couldn't control him. I know that Bush Sr. was supposedly implicated in the murder cover up.

You also have to be aware that
Americans are slowly being poisoned by the foods they eat, chock full of neurotoxins like MSG,equal, etc...then they sit in front of a TV screen that pumps HUGE numbers of subliminals into their heads, MAKING THEM MENTALLY ILL.
(it is my belief, and i could be wrong, that alll the subliminals in the adverts are what is making most people "mentally ill" and in fact is the reason for the expolosion of psychiatric maladies that happened to come about in the 50's)

The US is completely and totally a PAY TO PLAY SYSTEM.
You want justice, buy it, you want to get away with murder, buy it.

TAKE NAFTA for instance. SEVENTY TO EIGHTY PERCENT OF US WERE DEAD AGAINST IT...IT GOT RAMMED DOWN OUR THROATS ANYWAY.

This is in fact the BEAUTY of the American System.
As you pointed out there is ZERO ACCOUNTABILITY.

CORPORATE non-accountability- those bastard crooks like Paulson should be in Jail not handed money(Paulson was in charge of Goldman Sachs the main bank and class A shareholder of the Fed, that started all these shoddy derivatives back in 2000)

If you want to see some good examples of how corporate has eroded our way of life :Thom Hartmann's Unequal Protection, and Chomsky's Profit over People...

Government Non-Accountability- NEVER accountable, whether it is the LIES about the gulf of Tonkin, or the LIES told in front of congress with Iran-Contra..

HOW CAN PEOPLE NOT SEE WHAT IS GOING ON?
Eighty years of this, and it is the same shit over and over again.

Sorry for yelling..
BUT the 26% is enough to get Bush into office if they are galvanized to go to the polls, because most americans have so little faith in the system that they no longer vote.

[shaivite]

The single statement, in itself 'i am god' is above all else a great lie.

Statements in Hinduism such as "Shivoham", "Tat Tvam Asi", etc. are statements of immense philosophical and spiritual insight that have came through revealed scripture and personal experience. To even intellectually know what they mean (nevermind direct insight and experience of this) really requires a sound grasp of the system of thought, namely those based in systems of non-dualism. If a person is only schooled in a western religious paradigm then chances are they won't really understand this statement and thus understandably take it to nonsense. Saints and sages of other religous traditions have also asserted the same notion.

[miracles]

that's because the majority of americans have been faced with declining wages for 30 years, and are working harder for less.
If you talk to the older generation (in their 70s) they have NO CLUE what the economy is like because jobs were always plentiful for them. I think Kennedy may have been our last real american president...I think they got him into the WH and found out they(being the bankers) couldn't control him. I know that Bush Sr. was supposedly implicated in the murder cover up.

You also have to be aware that
Americans are slowly being poisoned by the foods they eat, chock full of neurotoxins like MSG,equal, etc...then they sit in front of a TV screen that pumps HUGE numbers of subliminals into their heads, MAKING THEM MENTALLY ILL.
(it is my belief, and i could be wrong, that alll the subliminals in the adverts are what is making most people "mentally ill" and in fact is the reason for the expolosion of psychiatric maladies that happened to come about in the 50's)

The US is completely and totally a PAY TO PLAY SYSTEM.
You want justice, buy it, you want to get away with murder, buy it.

TAKE NAFTA for instance. SEVENTY TO EIGHTY PERCENT OF US WERE DEAD AGAINST IT...IT GOT RAMMED DOWN OUR THROATS ANYWAY.

This is in fact the BEAUTY of the American System.
As you pointed out there is ZERO ACCOUNTABILITY.

CORPORATE non-accountability- those bastard crooks like Paulson should be in Jail not handed money(Paulson was in charge of Goldman Sachs the main bank and class A shareholder of the Fed, that started all these shoddy derivatives back in 2000)

If you want to see some good examples of how corporate has eroded our way of life :Thom Hartmann's Unequal Protection, and Chomsky's Profit over People...

Government Non-Accountability- NEVER accountable, whether it is the LIES about the gulf of Tonkin, or the LIES told in front of congress with Iran-Contra..

HOW CAN PEOPLE NOT SEE WHAT IS GOING ON?
Eighty years of this, and it is the same shit over and over again.

Sorry for yelling..
BUT the 26% is enough to get Bush into office if they are galvanized to go to the polls, because most americans have so little faith in the system that they no longer vote.

Bush and clinton are nothing but drug peddling arms dealing murdering satan worshipping greedy evil bastards. If you want to blame Christianity, well, I guess when you over throw the governmet with your Pea shooters you can come and deal with us next.

I see you think Lucifer has some good ideas. Pray to him and ask him to sort you out. Then you may aswell go pick opium popies with Bush.

[danceswithbunnies]

Bush and clinton are nothing but drug peddling arms dealing murdering satan worshipping greedy evil bastards. If you want to blame Christianity, well, I guess when you over throw the governmet with your Pea shooters you can come and deal with us next.

I see you think Lucifer has some good ideas. Pray to him and ask him to sort you out. Then you may aswell go pick opium popies with Bush.

No, i think Christian God/Satan are one and the same...

I have been trying to say that this is WHO the elites also worship, same God of the Christians/Jews, it is just that the Christians and Jews can't see that.

They do not understand that by their worship they are empowering the god of the elites that is keeping humanity enslaved in chains of darkness(ignorance). We are in fact the "Angels (of light)" who kept not our first estate.

Lucifer is a whole different kettle of fish and has nothing to do with the christian god/satan, and more with Prometheus.

[miracles]

No, i think Christian God/Satan are one and the same...

I have been trying to say that this is WHO the elites also worship, same God of the Christians/Jews, it is just that the Christians and Jews can't see that.

They do not understand that by their worship they are empowering the god of the elites that is keeping humanity enslaved in chains of darkness(ignorance). We are in fact the "Angels (of light)" who kept not our first estate.

Lucifer is a whole different kettle of fish and has nothing to do with the christian god/satan, and more with Prometheus.

Rubbish they worship satan and practise black satanic withcraft of the blackest kind. Prometheus is satan, do some research and stop believing every black lie you read. They are worshippers of Jah Bul on, Lucifer.

[danceswithbunnies]

Rubbish they worship satan and pracatise black satanic withcraft of the blackest kind. Prometheus is satan, do some research and stop believing every black lie you read.


They worship the same god you do.

This is not a lie, the clues are buried in that book you claim to love so much.
The clues are embedded in anomalous verses, dark sayings of old that are hard to understand, but the Wise they will know because
Everything is there for those that have eyes to see and ears to hear.

Christianity itself is the Antichrist speaking the blasphemous things.

Why do you think that there are several versions of the resurrection (which btw contradict: indicating that they are not to be taken literally)
and in those none of the disciples or magadelen recognize the risen Christ?
Do you know why that is?

[miracles]

They worship the same god you do.

This is not a lie, the clues are buried in that book you claim to love so much.
The clues are embedded in anomalous verses, dark sayings of old that are hard to understand, but the Wise they will know because
Everything is there for those that have eyes to see and ears to hear.

Christianity itself is the Antichrist speaking the blasphemous things.

Why do you think that there are several versions of the resurrection (which btw contradict: indicating that they are not to be taken literally)
and in those none of the disciples or magadelen recognize the risen Christ?
Do you know why that is?

Thats out of line and I find it offensive. Your deluded with the satanic disinformation that your are getting from the so called truth awakening movement. So I wont hold it againts you. But its end of discussion for me. But before I go I will say this, of this site, it has given me a clear insite into how satan is preparing people to belive the lie, it aslo tells me that anti-christ is not too far from coming. Im very concerned.

[danceswithbunnies]

Thats out of line and I find it offensive. Your deluded with the satanic disinformation that your are getting from the so called truth awakening movement. So I wont hold it againts you. But its end of discussion for me.

I want you to notice something.

For some reason it is acceptable for you to be offensive and tell other people that they are worshipping demons, and are sinners and are going to burn in hell forever...because you think you are telling the Truth.

Apparently you are not very good at taking your own medicine.

You expect behavior of others that you cannot comply with yourself.


There is a word for that, but i am not going to say it.

I did not get my information from any 'truth movement' but from reading and doing word studies and thinking about things instead of swallowing what others told me to believe whole cloth.

The christian church is the Antichrist, the truth hurts.

[miracles]

I want you to notice something.

For some reason it is acceptable for you to be offensive and tell other people that they are worshipping demons, and are sinners and are going to burn in hell forever...because you think you are telling the Truth.

Apparently you are not very good at taking your own medicine.

You expect behavior of others that you cannot comply with yourself.


There is a word for that, but i am not going to say it.

I did not get my information from any 'truth movement' but from reading and doing word studies and thinking about things instead of swallowing what others told me to believe whole cloth.

The christian church is the Antichrist, the truth hurts.

In that case we are enemies, do you realise that? Your dancing with the devil, not bunnies.

[element]

In that case we are enemies, do you realise that?
Did you even read the post?

Oh dear miraculous Miracles, your funnier with each passing day, a good brew..:D

.

[danceswithbunnies]

In that case we are enemies, do you realise that?


Only on your part, because i bear you no ill will.

Only people who think in opposites have enemies, i have no enemies only friends who do not grasp that they are my friends, yet.

The apocalypse has been occurring for 3000 or so years.
Every generation has had people thinking that this would be the last generation.

See the timeline:
http://www.abhota.info/end1.htm


ca. 2800 BC According to Isaac Asimov's Book of Facts (1979), an Assyrian clay tablet dating to approximately 2800 BC was unearthed bearing the words "Our earth is degenerate in these latter days. There are signs that the world is speedily coming to an end. Bribery and corruption are common." This is one of the earliest examples of the perception of moral decay in society being interpreted as a sign of the imminent end.
634 BC Apocalyptic thinking gripped many ancient cultures, including the Romans. Early in Rome's history, many Romans feared that the city would be destroyed in the 120th year of its founding. There was a myth that 12 eagles had revealed to Romulus a mystical number representing the lifetime of Rome, and some early Romans hypothesized that each eagle represented 10 years. The Roman calendar was counted from the founding of Rome, 1 AUC (ab urbe condita) being 753 BC. Thus 120 AUC is 634 BC. (Thompson p.19)
389 BC Some Romans figured that the mystical number revealed to Romulus represented the number of days in a year (the Great Year concept), so they expected Rome to be destroyed around 365 AUC (389 BC). (Thompson p.19)
1st Century Jesus said, "Verily I say unto you, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom." (Matthew 16:28) This implies that the Second Coming would return within the lifetime of his contemporaries, and indeed the Apostles expected Jesus to return before the passing of their generation.
ca. 70 The Essenes, a sect of Jewish ascetics with apocalyptic beliefs, may have seen the Jewish revolt against the Romans in 66-70 as the final end-time battle. (Source: PBS Frontline special Apocalypse!)
2nd Century The Montanists believed that Christ would come again within their lifetimes and establish a new Jerusalem at Pepuza, in the land of Phrygia. Montanism was perhaps the first bona fide Christian doomsday cult. It was founded ca. 156 AD by the tongues-speaking prophet Montanus and two followers, Priscilla and Maximilla. Despite the failure of Jesus to return, the cult lasted for several centuries. Tertullian, who once said "I believe it just because it is unbelievable" (a true skeptic if ever there was one!), was perhaps the most renowned Montanist. (Gould p.43-44)
247 Rome celebrated its thousandth anniversary this year. At the same time, the Roman government dramatically increased its persecution of Christians, so much so that many Christians believed that the End had arrived. (Source: PBS Frontline special Apocalypse!)
365 Hilary of Poitiers predicted the world would end in 365. (Source: Ontario Consultants on Religious Tolerance)
380 The Donatists, a North African Christian sect headed by Tyconius, looked forward to the world ending in 380. (Source: American Atheists)
Late 4th Century St. Martin of Tours (ca. 316-397) wrote, "There is no doubt that the Antichrist has already been born. Firmly established already in his early years, he will, after reaching maturity, achieve supreme power." (Abanes p.119)
500

* Roman theologian Sextus Julius Africanus (ca. 160-240) claimed that the End would occur 6000 years after the Creation. He assumed that there were 5531 years between the Creation and the Resurrection, and thus expected the Second Coming to take place no later than 500 AD. (Kyle p.37, McIver #21)
* Hippolytus (died ca. 236), believing that Christ would return 6000 years after the Creation, anticipated the Parousia in 500 AD. (Abanes p.283)
* The theologian Irenaeus, influenced by Hippolytus's writings, also saw 500 as the year of the Second Coming. (Abanes p.283, McIver #15)

Apr 6, 793 Elipandus, bishop of Toledo, described a brief bout of end-time panic that happened on Easter Eve, 793. According to Elipandus, the Spanish monk Beatus of Liébana prophesied the end of the world that day in the presence a crowd of people. The people, thinking that the world would end that night, became frightened, panicked, and fasted through the night until dawn. Seeing that the world had not ended and feeling hungry, Hordonius, one of the fasters, quipped, "Let's eat and drink, so that if we die at least we'll be fed." (Abanes p. 168-169, Weber p.50)
800

* Sextus Julius Africanus revised the date of Doomsday to 800 AD. (Kyle p.37)
* Beatus of Liébana wrote in his Commentary on the Apocalypse, which he finished in 786, that there were only 14 years left until the end of the world. Thus, the world would end by 800 at the latest. (Abanes p.168)

806 Bishop Gregory of Tours calculated the End occurring between 799 and 806. (Weber p.48)
848 The prophetess Thiota declared that the world would end this year. (Abanes p.337)
Mar 25, 970 Lotharingian computists foresaw the End on Friday, March 25, 970, when the Annunciation and Good Friday fell on the same day. They believed that it was on this day that Adam was created, Isaac was sacrificed, the Red Sea was parted, Jesus was conceived, and Jesus was crucified. Therefore, it naturally followed that the End must occur on this day! (Source: Center for Millennial Studies)
992 Bernard of Thuringia calculated that the end would come in 992. (Randi p.236)
995 The Feast of the Annunciation and Good Friday also coincided in 992, prompting some mystics to conclude that the world would end within 3 years of that date. (Weber p.50-51)
1000 There are many stories of apocalyptic paranoia around the year 1000. For example, legend has it that a "panic terror" gripped Europe in the years and months before this date. However, scholars disagree on which stories are genuine, whether millennial expectations at this time were any greater than usual, or whether ordinary people were even aware of what year it was. An excellent article on Y1K apocalyptic expectations can be found at the Center for Millennial Studies. (Gould, Schwartz, Randi)
1033 After Jesus failed to return in 1000, some mystics pushed the date of the End to the thousandth anniversary of the Crucifixion. The writings of the Burgundian monk Radulfus Glaber described a rash of millennial paranoia during the period from 1000-1033. (Kyle p.39, Abanes p.337, McIver #50)

You get the idea..not editing for clarity because you can go to the page...pages and pages of apocalyptic predictions.

[miracles]

Did you even read the post?

Oh dear miraculous Miracles, your funnier with each passing day, a good brew..:D

.

Enjoy it while it lasts, Im on my last legs. :D

[miracles]

Only on your part, because i bear you no ill will.

Only people who think in opposites have enemies, i have no enemies only friends who do not grasp that they are my friends, yet.

The apocalypse has been occurring for 3000 or so years.
Every generation has had people thinking that this would be the last generation.

See the timeline:
http://www.abhota.info/end1.htm



You get the idea..not editing for clarity because you can go to the page...pages and pages of apocalyptic predictions.

Ive seen this list on a previous thread, I appreciate that you say we are not enemies, however sadly we are at enmity with each other as to our perception of reality.

No one will know the day or the hour, but will see the signs. Dont look for little dark hiden secrets in the bible until youve read and understood the cleary visible top copy first. Every thousand years did they produce a cilcone chip to put in every human being and bar code everthing with 666 the number of the beast. UMMM, I dont think so. This is not a guessing game, from what I can see, its very real, and very serious.

[stfd]

Ive seen this list on a previous thread, I appreciate that you say we are not enemies, however sadly we are at enmity with each other as to our perception of reality.

No one will know the day or the hour, but will see the signs. Dont look for little dark hiden secrets in the bible until youve read and understood the cleary visible top copy first. Every thousand years did they produce a cilcone chip to put in every human being and bar code everthing with 666 the number of the beast. UMMM, I dont think so. This is not a guessing game, from what I can see, its very real, and very serious.

@ you last few posts - nicely said :)

and good luck to us

[miracles]

@ you last few posts - nicely said :)

and good luck to us

Yes all of us....

[mauviene]

The single statement, in itself 'i am god' is above all else a great lie.
How can a creation be 'god' ?
You see mythology has no room here, and has absolutelly nothing to do with what is beying 'discussed' here (actually discussed isn't a good word but whatever).

Hmm 'you' or 'i' or some other individual... is made of two 'things', a material part and a 'spiritual' one, which some (including myself) refer to as 'soul' .

To go further, all things 'flourished' from the creator - which wasn't 'you' or 'i' or some other individual , thats is - God.
God - the Creator.

You see, what Hyndus believe is totally their business, what Muslims believe is totally and entirelly their business as well - i will not go and bash them for their belief. I will however stand for my belief , any day.

"Aramaic Religions" <---- overated therm , and incorrect also...

As for the avatar hmm lets see , a triangle in which purple and pink 'blends' ; and to make it pretier , over this triangle we got the symbols of male AND
female which AGAIN (as the colours) blend and become one.
And now the yin/yang thing , good AND bad simultaneously, true AND false simultaneously , male AND female simultaneously... yea i'd say twisted to the core ...

As for my " imperialistic family shield " well is pretty straight forward , a representation of a certain royal family's herritage.
Nah i ain't got violence, one should rather worry about the warr for his/her soul then the war for this material world - one fades through the ages the other gets to 'exist' for eternity - smarten up...

Ignorance shall be the end of you

[kidsarocker]

Hey, I'm not the one who believes in the eternal damnation of all non-Christians (as idiotic and stupid and childish as that view is). And I'm certainly not evil enough to bring any type of suffering on other beings ;). That of course..maybe economic and social oppressors, but no torment or torture for sure..

God/Allah does not bring suffer to human beings it is man himself that has bought it on himself. God gave man a chance for self rule and now that man has fucked it up, God/Allah will take it away from man

[kidsarocker]

Well,let's put it this way...Lucifer does seem to have some good points.Like i have said before, How many genocides have been committed in his name? How many book burnings? How many burnings at the stake...how many kids molested ...none?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0pjpMBhTMQ&feature=channel_page

A day that is like a year Britain was his headquarters (British Empire)
A day that is like a month the United States was his headquarters
A day that is like a week Israel will be his headquarters

"Verily a day in the sight of thy Lord is like a thousand years of your reckoning" - Sura Hajj

So 1 day = 1000 years
1 day = 1000/12 = 83.33 yrs
1 day = 1000/52 = 19.23 yrs
"One day like a year, one day like a month, one day like a week..."

1917 marks the year the Antichrist moved his HQ from Europe to the U.S.
1917+83=2000
9/11 ritual was for the Antichrist to move his HQ to Israel

1 day like a week - 200 + 19 = 2019 when the Antichrist will walk the earth for 37 days like ours.

"The time between the great war and the conquest of Constantinople will be six years and the Antichrist will emerge in the seventh" - Sahih Hadith
If the Antichrist emerges in the seventh year of the Mahdi, that means 2019-7 = 2012

One of the signs of the coming of the Mahdi is the coming of a comet tail near earth lighting up the sky and causing the sinking of coastal areas - Planet X?

[kidsarocker]

They worship the same god you do.

This is not a lie, the clues are buried in that book you claim to love so much.
The clues are embedded in anomalous verses, dark sayings of old that are hard to understand, but the Wise they will know because
Everything is there for those that have eyes to see and ears to hear.

Christianity itself is the Antichrist speaking the blasphemous things.

Why do you think that there are several versions of the resurrection (which btw contradict: indicating that they are not to be taken literally)
and in those none of the disciples or magadelen recognize the risen Christ?
Do you know why that is?

No they don't worship the same God. Christianity was infiltrated and turned around that the followers of Christ are in fact worshiping Satan without their knowledge - why do you think there is a debate as to whether Jesus and Horus share the same similarities?

http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=1038175565778
http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=1038172125692

[eternal_spirit]

http://roswell.fortunecity.com/witches/369/v9.jpg

This is the shrine of Dankoly in central Benin. The shrine is located in the middle of nowhere and provides a local industry for the priest cult which attends it. Dankoly is the only Voodoo shrine in Benin used expressly for Revenge purposes. Pilgrims journey to Dankoly to curse their enemies and the God is much feared. The priest pours alcoholic spirits and palm oil onto the shrine invoking the God as the pilgrim pounds a small stake in the ground. During this action the pilgrim utters his curse and begs the God to inflict harm on the recipient of the curse. As you can see, this is a very old shrine. The mound is nearly 7 feet high and is composed of numerous sacrifices of blood, feathers, oil and alcohol. The many stakes - each bearing a curse - are seen surrounding the shrine mound.

Ouidah is well know for its cult of snake worshipers. The Sacred Temple of Serpents houses over 400 pythons which are tended by a priest cult devoted to the task. Live pythons are worn as ornamentation during certain voodoorites. The snakes are sacred and are protected under voodoo law. Nobody may kill a python without incurring the wrath of gods who are the spiritual embodiment of serpents.

http://roswell.fortunecity.com/witches/369/v5.jpg

[eternal_spirit]

Lynchings in Congo as penis theft panic hits capital

KINSHASA (Reuters) - Police in Congo have arrested 13 suspected sorcerers accused of using black magic to steal or shrink men's penises after a wave of panic and attempted lynchings triggered by the alleged witchcraft.

Reports of so-called penis snatching are not uncommon in West Africa, where belief in traditional religions and witchcraft remains widespread, and where ritual killings to obtain blood or body parts still occur.

Rumours of penis theft began circulating last week in Kinshasa, Democratic Republic of Congo's sprawling capital of some 8 million inhabitants. They quickly dominated radio call-in shows, with listeners advised to beware of fellow passengers in communal taxis wearing gold rings.

Purported victims, 14 of whom were also detained by police, claimed that sorcerers simply touched them to make their genitals shrink or disappear, in what some residents said was an attempt to extort cash with the promise of a cure.

"You just have to be accused of that, and people come after you. We've had a number of attempted lynchings. ... You see them covered in marks after being beaten," Kinshasa's police chief, Jean-Dieudonne Oleko, told Reuters on Tuesday.

Police arrested the accused sorcerers and their victims in an effort to avoid the sort of bloodshed seen in Ghana a decade ago, when 12 suspected penis snatchers were beaten to death by angry mobs. The 27 men have since been released.

"I'm tempted to say it's one huge joke," Oleko said.

"But when you try to tell the victims that their penises are still there, they tell you that it's become tiny or that they've become impotent. To that I tell them, 'How do you know if you haven't gone home and tried it'," he said.

Some Kinshasa residents accuse a separatist sect from nearby Bas-Congo province of being behind the witchcraft in revenge for a recent government crackdown on its members.

"It's real. Just yesterday here, there was a man who was a victim. We saw. What was left was tiny," said 29-year-old Alain Kalala, who sells phone credits near a Kinshasa police station.
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25946&highlight=penis

[eternal_spirit]

God/Allah does not bring suffer to human beings it is man himself that has bought it on himself. God gave man a chance for self rule and now that man has fucked it up, God/Allah will take it away from man

Your religion will convert all to Islam or destroy those who don't convert. Doesn't sound like a Godly idea, but one from the minds of evil men who created another religion (Islam) in man's name and rules.

[danceswithbunnies]

Actually, eternal spirit i saw a film posted on the web of several people being attacked by christians for such witchcraft in Africa, and being beaten unconscious, and burned alive.

[danceswithbunnies]

If Islam or Christianity (i exclude Judaism because they do not force conversion)
is correct, then why do its adherents feel such aburning need to force their god on everyone else?

IF their god was god, he/she would need no defending or forced conversion.

[eternal_spirit]

Actually, eternal spirit i saw a film posted on the web of several people being attacked by christians for such witchcraft in Africa, and being beaten unconscious, and burned alive.
I saw a film in Africa where children Today are put to death/murdered because they are accused of being witches.

My point is superstition and paranoia are a form of mind control it's evident in Voodoo practitioners and whole communities who practise this religion.

I'm not religious but what I've read and seen about Voodoo it's not good imo. There's many articles here's a sample.



Benin is the home of voodoo. Benin is the only country in the world that officially recognises voodoo as a state religion

1999 Sawetto, South Africa A Mozambique man, Maeoriko Manyike was sentenced to life in prison for ritual murder and mutilation. Manyike mutilated a 15-yr-old boy and tried to sell his genitals which he had cut off. According to a news report: "Ritual or 'muti' murders are common in South Africa where people are prepared to pay well for portions made of human parts which they believe will bring good health or good fortune." What? You mean African Voodoo isn't a life affirming earth based religion??

1988 St. Thomas, Virgin Islands St. Clair Daniel was arrested tried and convicted for two human sacrifices. Daniel hacked to death Genevieve Lewis, 53, and Steve Cornish, 29, with a machete on a beach in broad daylight in front of several horrified beach goers. Family and friends told police Daniel had been a practioner of his own brand of island Voodoo and Satanism. At his trial in 1989, Daniel tried to plead not guilty by reason of insanity, but prosecution pointed out Daniel was aware of what he was doing, because he followed an ancient voodoo superstition of dismembering a ritual victim so they could not return as a zombie. He was sentenced to life imprisonment without parole.


There's a video from Channel 4 prob on you tube about this, an eye opener into the world of Voodoo.

http://www.channel4.com/news/article...ildren/1944347 (http://www.channel4.com/news/articles/ontv/unreported_world/benin+voodoo+children/1944347)

[eternal_spirit]

If Islam or Christianity (i exclude Judaism because they do not force conversion)
is correct, then why do its adherents feel such aburning need to force their god on everyone else?

IF their god was god, he/she would need no defending or forced conversion.

Back to Africa, Christianity, Islam (for one Egypt's population 94% Muslim) Voodoo and whatever other religions are practiced (what a rotten choice or no choice if it's forced conversion, or something you're born into like previous generations.

The Jews well they took over the diamonds, gold and other minerals/resources and created apartheid. Some would say they worship the God of matter.

[kidsarocker]

Your religion will convert all to Islam or destroy those who don't convert. Doesn't sound like a Godly idea, but one from the minds of evil men who created another religion (Islam) in man's name and rules.

Got news for you pal..I am not Muslim..but I do study the signs of both the Bible and the Qur'an.

And just where did you get that idea from? I have Muslim friends and they don't force anything upon me

[kidsarocker]

Your religion will convert all to Islam or destroy those who don't convert. Doesn't sound like a Godly idea, but one from the minds of evil men who created another religion (Islam) in man's name and rules.

And another thing, you mention man so God is not at fault here Which I said earlier. It is man who has strayed from the path not God

I don't try and force things on people I just make them aware the signs which many of you have failed to see. Itis up to you to walk through the door or not.

Are Muslims and christians dragging you out in the middle of the night and converting you? No so it is pathetic of you to say that they force their religion on non muslims or non christians. How about the fact that Muslims and Christians live side by side because they worship the same God.

[danceswithbunnies]

Interesting that "God" makes all the demands, starts all the trouble but is never to blame.

It reminds me alot of the US government, lots of fingerpointing, lots of andropausal hysteria, much bloodshed rapine and slaughter to "stop the evil doers"..
ZERO ACCOUNTABILITY.

The corporations are run in the very same IMAGE OF THE BEAST...interesting how that works.

[eternal_spirit]

[quote]And another thing, you mention man so God is not at fault here Which I said earlier. It is man who has strayed from the path not God
Well Allah and Yahweh (same thing) Judaism and Islam are the closest/same of any other two religions. If they do exist as beings/Gods then they are not very nice are they. More like evil imo.

Mohammed was also a very evil person. A true Muslim will follow Mohammed's examples and copy what he done in his lifetime (which was since the beginning of Islam 7th C, Islam invaded, killed, converted by saying convert, or die, or pay a tax/tithe (blood money/blackmail) and then you could live as long as you pay your tithes annualy.

Did the people have much choice? The Muslim army would surround citys and wait for the inhabitants answer from the 3 choices.

Islam invaded, killed Christians first for centuries then the Christian Crusades where in response to this.

I don't try and force things on people I just make them aware the signs which many of you have failed to see. Itis up to you to walk through the door or not.
That's okay. I'm sure some readers will enjoy your input (Koranic prophecies etc)
Are Muslims and christians dragging you out in the middle of the night and converting you? No so it is pathetic of you to say that they force their religion on non muslims or non christians.No but probably did with my ancestors (Many English/Irish people wish the 3 Abrahamic religions had of stayed where they originated) why should a foreign religion be forced upon us? invented by a bunch of dodgy camel herder child genital mutilators - semites/hebrews from Babylon/Egypt/Israel/Saudi! Who are still converting people like they have always done (against their will)

I know the Koran and Hadiths (Hadiths are considered divine) and so is Shariah. Both are an abomination against sentient beings and humanity. What sort of sickos would practice genital mutilation of their women as a religious ritual! Islam, and Hebrew/Semite and Africans mostly. Probably the first records of this sick blood ritual came from Egypt. (No wonder their population is around 94% Muslim Today)
How about the fact that Muslims and Christians live side by side because they worship the same God
I don't wanna see anyone get hurt, the majority are peaceful. Problem with Islam is it's stuck in the past and needs to reform (but they won't cos they claim the Koran is the true word of God and cannot be altered) Even though the hadiths and Shariah are partly interpretations of the Koran by the Imams/Clerics (men) but the Hadiths are still considered divinely inspired by Allah (that's the feeble excuse they make and get away with it)

Judaism
The Talmud holds authority over the Tanakh (the OT Bible) most Jews are influenced by Talmud, which is partly Rabbinical interpretations on the OT Bible, this is the same as Islam with it's Hadiths and Shariah which are based on the Koran!

Why hadiths and Shariah are considered divine? Not sure but think I read that because the Imams, Clerics can trace their bloodlines/lineage back to the prophet Mohammed although Islamic leaders of Islamic States and countries do claim they are related to Mohammed. There's storeys the Queen of England has the blood of Mohammed flowing through her veins! And that the Muslim
Elite are well aware of this. And is of the tribes of Israel, Kind David Solomon line or something.

[eternal_spirit]

What is Apostacy?

Technically, apostacy means to leave a religion. It means to once have been a member or believer in a faith and then to cease to believe or to convert to another faith or to question an important aspect of ones faith.

What actually happens to Apostates who are caught in Muslim countries?



Iran Ruhollah Rowhani, 52, was executed in 1998 for converting to the Baha'i faith from Islam (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html). The US State Department has called on Iran "to protect (http://www.peacefaq.com/security.html) the lives of 15 other imprisoned Baha'is. Three of them, Ata'ullah Hamid Nasirizadih, Sirus Dhabih- Magadamme and Hidayad Kashifi, have already been sentenced to death. Moderate President Khatami can do little to help as the courts are controlled by religious hardliners.
The Reverend Mehdi Dibaj had converted from Islam (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html) to Christianity (http://www.peacefaq.com/christians.html) 45 years ago. On 21/12/93 he was sentenced to death on charges of apostasy. Released on appeal his body was found on 5 July 1994. The Reverend Haik Mehr, Superintendent of the Church of the Assemblies of God, who had campaigned against Dibaj's death sentence was found dead on 20/1/94. On 2 July 1994 the body of the Reverend Tatavous Michaelian, Chairman of the Council of Protestant Ministers in Iran was found with several gun shots to the head.
Egypt (http://www.peacefaq.com/egypt.html) We wish to raise what, at first glance, may appear to be an inconsequential or even humorous matter [at least in Australia where a good proportion of partners are unmarried]. A Cairo (http://www.peacefaq.com/egypt.html) court has ordered the divorce of a couple who wish to stay together. Islamists (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html) have claimed that Professor Nasser Hamed Abu Zaid is guilty of heresy in writing that "Islam (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html)'s teachings should evolve with changes in society." However, a Muslim (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html) woman (http://www.peacefaq.com/women.html) cannot be married to a heretic, a non-Muslim (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html). He and his wife (http://www.peacefaq.com/women.html), Ibtihal, also an academic have appealed against the ruling and can remain together for the time being. However if the prosecution stands, they could lose their jobs or even be killed .by fanatics as "adulterers ("living in sin") or as apostates ("deserters of Islam (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html)") [From "Some Islamic (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html) History]
While there are, as yet, no laws against apostasy from Islam (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html), the missionary or the convert may be convicted on other charges, for example "threatening social peace (http://www.peacefaq.com/peace.html) and intercommunal relations". There is, however, a Supreme Court ruling that a Moslem (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html) who apostacises is legally dead. He loses all rights and powers. He cannot withdraw funds from his accounts. Any person who kills him does not commit murder from a legal point of view because he is already legally dead. The "dead" person cannot marry or inherit. Nor is it possible for an apostate to have his identity card changed to "Christian (http://www.peacefaq.com/christians.html)". More than one hundred and fifty Muslims (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html) who have adopted Christianity (http://www.peacefaq.com/christians.html) have been detained in maximum-security (http://www.peacefaq.com/security.html) prisons. They have been accused of threatening national unity. One example from a Copt (http://www.peacefaq.com/christians.html)ic press release, concerned the case of Dr. Abdul-Rahman who has been held in Cairo (http://www.peacefaq.com/egypt.html) without trial for two years for breaking with Islam (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html). He is in solitary confinement but his will has not been broken. He is undoubtedly being used as a warning to anyone else contemplating apostasy




Sudan Bit by bit the Islamic (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html) fundamentalists, the Ikhwan, were able to consolidate their power in Khartoum. In September 1983 a version of Shariah, the "September Law" was introduced. Many floggings, amputations and stonings were carried out. Incorporated in the law was ijtihad or "free interpretation". If the qazi was unable to find a relevant (http://www.peacefaq.com/palestine.html) law to convict a defendant he could search the Qur'an (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html) and Hadith (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html) at his discretion. For example Mahmoud Taha, the 76 year old leader of the Republican Brothers was hanged in January 1985 for apostasy, although it was not a crime at that time.
A number of southerners living in the north had changed their names to Arabic (http://www.peacefaq.com/arabs.html) ones to improve their business prospects. They discovered that they had done a dangerous thing; now they were expected to be practising Muslims (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html) and could not use their original names without being subject to the death penalty for apostasy. Similarly at risk were non-Muslim (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html) families who adopted Islam (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html) or an Islamic (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html) name so that they could qualify for relief supplies during a famine. Also trapped were non-Muslim (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html) men who had "embraced" Islam (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html) so that they could marry Muslim (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html) women (http://www.peacefaq.com/women.html) or to be able to obtain easy divorces.
15/7/98 Mekki Kuku is held in a Khartoum jail awaiting trial on a charge of apostasy from Islam (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html) to Christianity (http://www.peacefaq.com/christians.html). Sudan has the death penalty for "deserting Islam (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html)."
Mauritania "Every Muslim (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html) guilty of the crime of apostasy, whether by word or action, will be invited to repent over a period of three days. If he does not repent within this time limit, he is to be condemned to death as an apostate and his property will be confiscated by the Treasury
Every Muslim (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html) who refuses to pray will be invited to fulfill the obligation of prayer in the prescribed time limit. .. If he persists in his refusal he will be punished by the death penalty."
India (http://www.peacefaq.com/india.html) The Muhtasib saw to it that the Muslims (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html) did not omit the five daily prayers and the fasts of Ramadan. State musicians and singers were pensioned off. The death penalty for apostasy from Islam (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html) was enforced.
Rushdie claimed (1985) to be a non-Muslim (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html) and so is not bound by Shariah blasphemy (http://www.peacefaq.com/blasphemy.html) laws. If he was born of Muslim (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html) parents then the Shariah does not allow him to leave Islam (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html) even in childhood. The penalty under Muslim (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html) law for apostasy is death. Did you know that Islamic (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html)Muslim (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html) religious law to rate as equal to existing British law? A British Pakistani (http://www.peacefaq.com/india.html) father murdered his daughter (http://www.peacefaq.com/women.html) for converting to a Jehovah's Witness. He would, of course, have been acquitted, under Shariah which the Muslim (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html) fundamentalists are trying to bring into England. leaders in Britain want
Chechnya Theologians from Chechnya and Dagestan ordered Muslims (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html) to carry out the death sentence against Gov. Aman Tuleyev "at the first possible opportunity". He has been accused of being baptized as an Orthodox Christian (http://www.peacefaq.com/christians.html) on June 25.
The death penalty for apostasy ("deserting Islam (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html)") is not Qur'anic (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html) but it is Shariah (Islamic (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html) Law) as Prophet Muhammad (http://www.peacefaq.com/muhammad.html) executed a number of apostates.
Tuleyev denies the report that he had been baptized and says he is not religious. Thus he is still technically an apostate as, being of Kazakh origin, he is "a member of a predominantly Muslim (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html) ethnic (http://www.peacefaq.com/race.html) group" as the theologians say.
Libya Indeed, the only Muslim (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html) author to have cast doubts on male circumcision has had legal action brought against him and might be sentenced to death for apostasy. I am speaking of (retired) Judge Mustafa Kamal Al-Mahdawi, a personal friend of mine, who is today under a ferocious attack lead by Libyan religious circles in the mosques as well in the press. The preacher of the Mosque of the Prophet (http://www.peacefaq.com/muhammad.html), in Medina, Saudi Arabia (http://www.peacefaq.com/arabs.html), published in July 1992 a pamphlet handed out free of charge in Libya. In this pamphlet, he asks the Muslim (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html) Arab (http://www.peacefaq.com/arabs.html) League and the Islamic (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html) Conference to set up a collective fatwa (http://www.peacefaq.com/jihad.html) of all Muslim (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html) scholars against this judge and to execute him as an apostate if he does not retract. As for his book, the preacher asks that it be removed from the shelves, burned and forbidden to any reader. He blames the judge for having, among other things, denied that male circumcision is compulsory when there is unanimity in favour of it and when Mohammed (http://www.peacefaq.com/muhammad.html) was Himself circumcised 54.


Why is Apostacy such a terrible crime in Islam?



Apostasy (Irtidad) in Islam (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html) ?If a person is raised in a society which protects (http://www.peacefaq.com/security.html) his soul from the impurities of kufr and shirk, or if a person is shown the Right Path accepts it willingly - can such a person reject the Islamic (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html) faith? Is he allowed to apostate (become murtad)? Can he declare that he does not believe in God, Prophet Muhammad (http://www.peacefaq.com/muhammad.html) and the Day of Judgement?
Once a person enters into the fold of Islam (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html), the rules change. As soon as you become a Muslim (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html) by your own choice, you are expected to submit yourself to Allah (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html) totally and completely. "O You who believe! Enter into submission, kaffatan!" (2:208) he surrenders the right of making decisions to Allah (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html) and His Messenger. No believing man and no believing woman (http://www.peacefaq.com/women.html) has a choice in their own affairs when Allah (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html) and His Messenger have decided on an issue." (33:36)
Now even the question of apostasy, irtidad or deserting of one's faith, for a Muslim (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html), becomes a shar'i/religious issue - even in this issue he is governed by the laws of Islam (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html). And Islam (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html) clearly says: No! You cannot become an apostate.After coming into the fold of Islam (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html), rejection of the fundamentals is not tolerated. If there are doubts in your mind about the fundamental beliefs of Islam (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html), then discuss, question, debate, study and solve them BUT you are not allowed to leave Islam (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html), desert your own fitra!
On the issue of openly rejecting Islam (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html), Islam (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html) cannot just stand aside and see one of its followers going astray. It would allow discussions to understand and solve the problems, but not allow its followers to lower themselves from the sublime status of "surrendering to the will of Allah (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html)-Islam (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html)" to the status of those "who have hearts but do not understand, ears but do not hear, and eyes but do not see."
Apostasy is Equal to Treason Why does Islam (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html) not allow apostasy? Apostasy or irtidad in Islam (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html) is equal to treason. ?In Islam (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html), the concept of treason is not limited to political and military affairs, it also has a spiritual and cultural dimension to it. In the Islamic (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html) order of sacredness, Allah (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html) then the Prophet (http://www.peacefaq.com/muhammad.html) and then the Qur'an (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html) occupy the highest positions. Tawhid, nubuwwa, and qiyama form the constitution (http://www.peacefaq.com/democracy.html) of Islam (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html). Just as upholding and protecting (http://www.peacefaq.com/security.html) the constitution (http://www.peacefaq.com/democracy.html) of a country is a sign of patriotism, and undermining it is a form of treason - in the same way open rejection of the fundamental beliefs of Islam (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html) by a Muslim (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html) is an act of treason. Apostasy i.e. the public declaration of rejecting the fundamentals of Islam (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html), has also negative influence on the Muslim (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html) society, it is indeed a major fitna.
And that is why Islam (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html) has prescribed harsh punishment for irtidad. It must be emphasized that irtidad which we are dicussing here involves open rejection without any force and with the realization of what one's statements or actions imply. The punishment prescibed by the shari'a for apostasy is death.
Even the terms used by the shari'a for apostates give the idea of treason to this whole phenomenon. "Murtad" means apostate. Murtad can be of two types: fitri and milli. (1) Murtad Fitri means a person born of a Muslim (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html) parent and then he rejects Islam (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html). Fitri means nature (http://www.peacefaq.com/frogtale.html) or natural. The term "murtad fitri" implies that the person has apostacized from his nature (http://www.peacefaq.com/frogtale.html), the nature (http://www.peacefaq.com/frogtale.html) of believing in God. (2) "Murtad Milli" means a person who converted to Islam (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html) and then later on he rejects Islam (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html). Milli is from millat which means a community. The term "murtad milli" implies that the person that the person has apostacized from his community.
In the first case, the apostasy is like treason against God, whereas in the second case, the apostasy is like treason against the Muslim (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html) community. Probably, that is why there is also a difference in dealing with these two kinds of murtad.
A former kafir who becomes a Muslim (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html) and then apostates (Murtad Milli) is given a second chance; if he repents then he is not to be killed.
But one who is born as a Muslim (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html) and then apostates (Murtad Fitri) he is to be killed even if he repents. His repentance might be accepted by Allah (http://www.peacefaq.com/islam.html) but he still has to go through the punishment prescibed for his treason in this world.
This punishment is only applicable in case of apostasy by men; in case of women (http://www.peacefaq.com/women.html) the punishment is not death but life imprisonment. And if such a woman (http://www.peacefaq.com/women.html) repents, then her repentance is accepted and the punishment is suspended.
(Excerpts from "Left Shoe News (http://www.hraic.org.uk/)")

http://www.peacefaq.com/apostacy.html

[eternal_spirit]

Originally Posted by eternal_spirit http://www.davidicke.com/forum/images/buttons_green/viewpost.gif (http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?p=600187#post600187)
The Qur’an says Jihad receives the highest reward and is the surest way to paradise if the "fighter" dies: "Think not of those who are slain in Allah’s way as dead … they live … in the presence of their Lord" (Qur’an 3:169). "… To him who fighteth in the cause of Allah … soon shall we {God} give him a reward" (Qur’an 4:74).
According to Muslim doctrine, to deny Allah and Muhammad's exclusive right to be believed in and adored is a terrible crime. Having established the ‘best religion’ that abrogates all others, the Prophet undeniably prescribed that the correct course of action against non-believers is to fight them. Since the biggest crime any person or nation can commit is denial of Islam, it is quite clear the true solution to the problem has been dictated to be perpetual war (Jihad) against such renegades. Based upon Islamic scholars’ writings, it appears undeniable that violent Jihad is permitted in Islam for both offensive and defensive purposes. It was commanded by, and praised by Muhammad as being one of the greatest forms of true Islamic spirituality. Further, some of the final direction from Muhammad was that that Jihad is to continue until all people are subjected to Islamic rule. Offensive aggression toward non-Muslims is clearly and unashamedly allowed, but prior to attacking, the Muslims are to offer them a choice: 1- Become Muslim; 2- do not become Muslim but pay the extortion (Jizya) tax; 3- defend yourself unto death.
Jihad embodies both an ideology and a jurisdiction, formally conceived by Muslim legal experts and theologians from the 8th to 9th centuries onward, based on their interpretation of Qur’anic verses and long chapters in the Traditions (the hadith). The consensus on the nature of jihad from all four schools of Sunni Islamic jurisprudence (Maliki, Hanbali, Hanafi, and Shafi’i) is clear:
Ibn Abi Zayd al-Qayrawani (Maliki),
Jihad is a precept of Divine institution. Its performance by certain individuals may dispense others from it. We Malikis (one of the four schools of Muslim jurisprudence) maintain that it is preferable not to begin hostilities with the enemy before having invited the latter to embrace the religion of Allah except where the enemy attacks first. They have the alternative of either converting to Islam or paying the poll tax (jizya), (seems the only get out clause is to pay money to save your lives?) short of which war will be declared against them. [14]




http://www.islamundressed.com/

[marpat]

All your religions are tools to keep you in line monkeys!!

Why was religion created?

To suppress rebellion??

I doubt it. The work of jung suggests that it is created by a deep human need.

Religion has been abused by the political powers but this does not mean it is false in itself, just that it has been misused.

[mauviene]

I doubt it. The work of jung suggests that it is created by a deep human need.

Religion has been abused by the political powers but this does not mean it is false in itself, just that it has been misused.

I reject Jungs theory. Icke has got it on the money..and so does Terrence Mckenna.

All religions have systematically destroyed the shamanistic traditions of the early humans (pre-reptillian control).

Chemicals like Ahyuasca and Salvia Divinorum have brought about spiritual revelations for the past Shamnistic cultures that far exceeded any religious dogma/opiate induced experience.

In fact..the rather underground research thats been going on (because of religions of course) is linking all religious experience with shamanistic practices (no wonder there is no true saints anymore right?)

Think of the "soma" in the rig vedas..(it's still unknown what chemical concoction brought bout hindu mythology but I'd sure as hell like to know)

So really..all religion is created to suppress the discovery of the true giver of spirituality..which is indeed..has always been..and will continue to be..the entheogen.

(buy some salvia before its banned and see what a religious experience is truly like)

In fact..there is a theory that jesus (and older savior figures) are actually not only the personification of the sun..but also the personifications of the mushroom..or mana..(giver of life and salvation).

[dedicate]

Anybody sayinng "Religion is just" this or "just" that, is making excuses for not putting much thought or effort into what they believe. Like saying, "Monogamy" is something they make us believe in in order to control us. Or love is a chemical reaction the body/emotions engage in to propagate the species.

Religion is a complex subject, and should not be just dismissed after giving it 30 seconds thought. People will say they have given it more than 1/2 minute. Really? How many books on the subject have you read? Taken classes? Visted churches? Put into practice any of the things they are telling you you must do?

I have to laugh. I really do. Somebody will ask a question like is there a God? and 50 people will respond and by view of the answers it seems that very few have even given the idea much thought. It seems to me, there would be more questions than answers from any group of people.. but here on this site we have 50 authorities on the subject of God; no problem. I would be surprised if any of them even spent a day in contemplation. -- so they don't even know who they are, much less God!

[mauviene]

Anybody sayinng "Religion is just" this or "just" that, is making excuses for not putting much thought or effort into what they believe. Like saying, "Monogamy" is something they make us believe in in order to control us. Or love is a chemical reaction the body/emotions engage in to propagate the species.

Religion is a complex subject, and should not be just dismissed after giving it 30 seconds thought. People will say they have given it more than 1/2 minute. Really? How many books on the subject have you read? Taken classes? Visted churches? Put into practice any of the things they are telling you you must do?

I have to laugh. I really do. Somebody will ask a question like is there a God? and 50 people will respond and by view of the answers it seems that very few have even given the idea much thought. It seems to me, there would be more questions than answers from any group of people.. but here on this site we have 50 authorities on the subject of God; no problem. I would be surprised if any of them even spent a day in contemplation. -- so they don't even know who they are, much less God!

It doesn't take a PHD in religion to realize it's all hogwash.

Really..I think it's called logical analysis..which anyone can do without reading loads and loads of the same garbage
(If you want to cut to the chase of religious teachings read the Hindu and Buddhist scriptures..which still are now pwned by modern day psychology and parapsychology)

[dedicate]

It doesn't take a PHD in religion to realize it's all hogwash.

Really..I think it's called logical analysis..which anyone can do without reading loads and loads of the same garbage
(If you want to cut to the chase of religious teachings read the Hindu and Buddhist scriptures..which still are now pwned by modern day psychology and parapsychology) ---

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
These statements you are making just show that you have no truth based concept of what you are talking about when you say, "religion" or "christian". I noted that you railed on Christianity for believing in eternal hell. But not all Christians believe in eternal hell. If you had spent some real time studying Christianity, you would know this.

Then you say it does not take a Ph.D. to understand religion, which shows also this same sort of misunderstanding. A Ph.D. is irrelavant to understanding religion. What would be important is for one to put that sort of time and effort into the study.

I'm not sure what you ae saying about Hindu and Buddhist scriptures. The way you are phrasing it, sounds like you have respect for those teachings? But those are religious teachings,, and here two sentencse before you said "religion is all hogwash". Sort of confounding.

[mauviene]

It doesn't take a PHD in religion to realize it's all hogwash.

Really..I think it's called logical analysis..which anyone can do without reading loads and loads of the same garbage
(If you want to cut to the chase of religious teachings read the Hindu and Buddhist scriptures..which still are now pwned by modern day psychology and parapsychology) ---

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
These statements you are making just show that you have no truth based concept of what you are talking about when you say, "religion" or "christian". I noted that you railed on Christianity for believing in eternal hell. But not all Christians believe in eternal hell. If you had spent some real time studying Christianity, you would know this.

Then you say it does not take a Ph.D. to understand religion, which shows also this same sort of misunderstanding. A Ph.D. is irrelavant to understanding religion. What would be important is for one to put that sort of time and effort into the study.

I'm not sure what you ae saying about Hindu and Buddhist scriptures. The way you are phrasing it, sounds like you have respect for those teachings? But those are religious teachings,, and here two sentencse before you said "religion is all hogwash". Sort of confounding.

Hey man do the research yourself..I'm not saying you have to believe me..but I'm warning you to use logical analysis instead of mindlessly listening to someone else since they have a "PHD" :eek:.

But Christianity is not the only religion that believes in a hell..I rail on all religions..even Christians who don't believe in hell..but I still love them:).

Really though..the original Aramaic scriptures of the bible have been lost long ago and will never be reclaimed (unless the Vatican has them in its archives)..the original hebrew/greek new and old testaments where mistranslated by the British government in 1611 in order to correlate with there politics. In fact..all religions are political constructs. Again I am not the first to make this analysis but it's quite obvious. The reason I favor Buddhism and Hinduism is because they are brilliantly more in depth in philosophy and are mythologicaly much more loving than the Aramaic traditions.

[dedicate]

OK. Will do. Thanks for the info.

[kasalt]

An interesting perspective from Pat Condell, worth hearing whether one agrees with it or not:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEtfdzNAE74

[twistedconcept]

People who don't believe in religion or God seem to spend an awful lot of time trying to attack others that do. Man is responsible for the shit state of the world. He'll always blame something else, due to his own ego.

[mauviene]

An interesting perspective from Pat Condell, worth hearing whether one agrees with it or not:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEtfdzNAE74

I know a lot of atheists are pissed off at religion..but they are still fooled by the same institution that created religion in the field of science

[eternal_spirit]

People who don't believe in religion or God seem to spend an awful lot of time trying to attack others that do. Man is responsible for the shit state of the world. He'll always blame something else, due to his own ego.

It also works the other way around.

Man made religions (all are) and the extreme forms with their rules and those who follow the rules are the cause.

[marpat]

Hey man do the research yourself..I'm not saying you have to believe me..but I'm warning you to use logical analysis instead of mindlessly listening to someone else since they have a "PHD" :eek:.

But Christianity is not the only religion that believes in a hell..I rail on all religions..even Christians who don't believe in hell..but I still love them:).

Really though..the original Aramaic scriptures of the bible have been lost long ago and will never be reclaimed (unless the Vatican has them in its archives)..the original hebrew/greek new and old testaments where mistranslated by the British government in 1611 in order to correlate with there politics. In fact..all religions are political constructs. Again I am not the first to make this analysis but it's quite obvious. The reason I favor Buddhism and Hinduism is because they are brilliantly more in depth in philosophy and are mythologicaly much more loving than the Aramaic traditions.

I think the main reason that those traditions have such a philosophy is that they never suffered the same level of repression as most other religions did in the west, caused by the christian murderers and slave mongers.

I would not say they are all political constructs but there are elements of that in some portions. They are very political subjects however.

[twistedconcept]

It also works the other way around.

Man made religions (all are) and the extreme forms with their rules and those who follow the rules are the cause.

Not if they don't force their belief on others. I know many religious people that don't force their views on others. Conversely, I know many people that subscribe to evolution that are constantly insulting religious people for being silly and believing in a fantasy.

[darketernal]

Has anyone considered the reason so many scientists object to religion is because historically the Christian church has burned them at the stake if their findings contridicted whatever the church happened to believe at the time?

The absolute irony of Christians claiming they are persecuted by people who believe in science is so hillarious that I do not have words to describe it. When biologists start burning Christians ministers alive for teaching creationism then perhaps you might have an argument...

However given what is written in history books... I think it is very reasonable for people who are not religious being very concerned when people who give lip service to fanatical religious ideas get into positions of apparent power.

Here in the US, the Bush administration did use the holy war card to get massive evangelical Christian (26.1% of Americans consider themselves part of this sect of Christianity) support for the war in Iraq... and they followed him to war because Bush Jr claimed to be a believer in the evangelical message. Food for thought.

[element]

Has anyone considered the reason so many scientists object to religion is because historically the Christian church has burned them at the stake if their findings contridicted whatever the church happened to believe at the time?

The absolute irony of Christians claiming they are persecuted by people who believe in science is so hillarious that I do not have words to describe it. When biologists start burning Christians ministers alive for teaching creationism then perhaps you might have an argument...

However given what is written in history books... I think it is very reasonable for people who are not religious being very concerned when people who give lip service to fanatical religious ideas get into positions of apparent power.

Here in the US, the Bush administration did use the holy war card to get massive evangelical Christian (26.1% of Americans consider themselves part of this sect of Christianity) support for the war in Iraq... and they followed him to war because Bush Jr claimed to be a believer in the evangelical message. Food for thought.

DE, you have a point about history, and I agree with you. Christianity has been and still is (in certain countries) a major force of control. What you don't get however, is that those in control preach anti-spirituality as well, and Christianity is therefor attacked as well. You only have to look at the media, education, literature and many more things to realise this.

In your country Christianity is big, and has much control, but here in Europe it's the other way around. Materialism is the norm here, and Christianity is a punching bag.

America isn't the center of the world, DE. There are different forms of control everywhere.

[darketernal]

DE, you have a point about history, and I agree with you. Christianity has been and still is (in certain countries) a major force of control. What you don't get however, is that those in control preach anti-spirituality as well, and Christianity is therefor attacked as well. You only have to look at the media, education, literature and many more things to realise this.

In your country Christianity is big, and has much control, but here in Europe it's the other way around. Materialism is the norm here, and Christianity is a punching bag.

America isn't the center of the world, DE. There are different forms of control everywhere.


Systems of control are built into every aspect of our societies, not just religion. I've always said this.

The point being that historically EVERY time Christianity has become prolific in any country, it has been used as a means of opression. It was this way in Europe for centuries, and remains this way in the US today, although to a lesser extent now. How many countries have been converted by the sword in the last 2000 years when they were first Christianized?

Isn't that what we are doing in Iraq right now? I know a few soldiers who feel that is why they are there.

Granted in our current and historical systems of control, it doesn't matter what systems are in place, because those behind the scenes have agendas that are negative and honestly do not care what vehicle they use to bring about their agendas. We've seen though first hand just how horrific the results are when Christianty is allowed to be used as a political tool on a large scale, and this has been seen repeatedly.

[tjohn]

150 million people have been killed in wars in the last century, it hasnt worked very well has it? In fact one could argure that it has caused more wars and rebellions than it has ever prevented. I believe satan is behind all religion and rebellion againts the one true God and he is a fixen for big rebellion very soon abely assisted by the powres that be. In fact the luciferian religion, promotes rebellion. Just ask lucifer horus.If you agree that religion is a deception then why are you using religious concepts of lucifer? :eek:

[danceswithbunnies]

Dark Side of Christianity

http://www.scribd.com/doc/6055982/The-Dark-Side-of-Christianity-History-By-Hellen-Ellebre

Seriously though..it is not just christianity, that just happens to be on the list of Doodoo for the moment...and i personally believe it was planned that way.

Any religion though seems to have a dark side..look at how they were immolating women alive in India when their husbands died.

I would go further than that..i would say that EVERY ideology is going to turn out that way..whatever the ideology happens to be.

It is because of the way the human mind works that ideologies gain such momentum turn vicious, and kill millions.
The mind is a two edged sword.

We all know about Lenin and Stalin and their vicious reign of terror...
How about the bombing of Hiroshima in the name of "democracy and freedom"? Or the poisoning of Iraq with depleted uranium and god knows what chemicals in the name of "liberation" and "winning hearts and minds" (whatever the F*** that means)

Ideologies take people who are ordinary and turn them into killers.
That folks is the lesson of the twentieth century.

[danceswithbunnies]

Okay...i posted this on another thread..

This is an interesting read that is even better than dark side of christianity..

Man's Search for Spirituality

http://www.scribd.com/doc/13397740/M...y?autodown=pdf

[kidsarocker]

Ever notice that people resemble the god they worship?

it is no mistake that over 60% of American evangelicals support Bush torturing detaineees.

Bush is not Christian, all leaders pretend to be Christian or Judaism but infact Satan is their god

[kidsarocker]

All your religions are tools to keep you in line monkeys!!

Why was religion created?

To suppress rebellion??

If Monotheistic religion is a tool then how is it that Montheistic religion and their prophets have been attacked by the Elite? How is it Polyhtheistic religions are left alone, and how is it that the Elite are Satan worshippers? If they worship Satan then that means they acknowledge and are challenging God

Watch The Arrivals - infiltration of Religion