The psychology of a murderer

[Anders Lindman]

When a murderer kills someone, he or she gets a false sense of control. Most people have the belief system that their own death is inevitable. The human mind despises the idea of having no control. When fighting an enemy, there is always at least the possibility for the mind to have control. But with the belief system that one's own death is inevitable, no control is possible. Thus death is in most cases a despised part of an individual's psychological shadow. In desperate cases of the need for control, the shadow can be turned upside down: the murderer has no control over his or her own death, but if the shadow is turned around, then control of death becomes possible since it is now about another person's death.

[joe dolan]

doesnt it pose the ultimate nature or nurture question?? the violent "criminal" was beaten, whats the percentge of sexual abusers were sexually abused themselves? its high, VERY high.

[joe dolan]

"he human mind despises the idea of having no control".. correction!!! the ANAL human mind despises having no control!! not all humans have LEARNED that RESPONSE.

[Anders Lindman]

doesnt it pose the ultimate nature or nurture question?? the violent "criminal" was beaten, whats the percentge of sexual abusers were sexually abused themselves? its high, VERY high.

Sexual abuse may also have something to do with control urges and the shadow. I haven't investigated that yet.

[Anders Lindman]

"he human mind despises the idea of having no control".. correction!!! the ANAL human mind despises having no control!! not all humans have LEARNED that RESPONSE.

Hmm... I will ponder this for a while.

[joe dolan]

Hmm... I will ponder this for a while.

please do. its freudian. the anal is the control "freak". question is again. where did they learn it? the anal stage of developement. second year . or thereabouts. fascinating stuff.. isnt it all learned behaviour??

[joe dolan]

Sexual abuse may also have something to do with control urges and the shadow. I haven't investigated that yet.

isnt the "shadow" that part of you.. that YOU don't like either???

[Anders Lindman]

"he human mind despises the idea of having no control".. correction!!! the ANAL human mind despises having no control!! not all humans have LEARNED that RESPONSE.

Yes! I think you mean the problem with letting go. The mind often has a lack of control management one could say. It uses too much effort controlling certain things the wrong way.

[chandrakavi]

Excellent definition Anders Lindman. I suppose if the killer would feel
the same PHYSICAL pain, I am not talking about compassion, as the victim when doing the killing, he would not want to feel that ,therefore would not kill anymore, but it is not that way.

See my thread "profile of a perverse remind you of an Illuminati,"
about a book review about a PERVERSE profile.

[joe dolan]

Yes! I think you mean the problem with letting go. The mind often has a lack of control management one could say. It uses too much effort controlling certain things the wrong way.

isnt it more a case of gettin in touch?? as opposed to letting go? one can only "let go" when one has awareness of it. but when we bury it (repress/supress) we let it fester and it will always come back to bite us in the arse. let me quote carl jung... what remains unconsious will be experienced EXTERNALLY as fate...

[Anders Lindman]

isnt the "shadow" that part of you.. that YOU don't like either???

I see the shadow as the "not me" within that I don't like. As an example, in a personal relationship, the part of the other person that I like is a "not me" but it's not part of my shadow. The part of the other that I don't like is a "not me" that is a part of my shadow.

[joe dolan]

I see the shadow as the "not me" within that I don't like. As an example, in a personal relationship, the part of the other person that I like is a "not me" but it's not part of my shadow. The part of the other that I don't like is a "not me" that is a part of my shadow.

precisely. see previous post!! nice one. isnt it the case. "what you dont like about someone, is really what you dont like about yourself"

[Anders Lindman]

Excellent definition Anders Lindman. I suppose if the killer would feel
the same PHYSICAL pain, I am not talking about compassion, as the victim when doing the killing, he would not want to feel that ,therefore would not kill anymore, but it is not that way.

See my thread "profile of a perverse remind you of an Illuminati,"
about a book review about a PERVERSE profile.

That's right! I didn't think of the physical pain aspect of it, but that's certainly an important part of it.

[joe dolan]

That's right! I didn't think of the physical pain aspect of it, but that's certainly an important part of it.

see tsarion. best example. we are the illuminati and they are us. again see jung. it must be experienced externally as fate

[Anders Lindman]

isnt it more a case of gettin in touch?? as opposed to letting go? one can only "let go" when one has awareness of it. but when we bury it (repress/supress) we let it fester and it will always come back to bite us in the arse. let me quote carl jung... what remains unconsious will be experienced EXTERNALLY as fate...

Getting in touch is perhaps a better description. Getting in touch with the subconscious. For example bowel and bladder control is managed by the subconscious mind for most of the time. But there is often a lack of connection between the conscious mind and subconscious control. When we get really scared, we "let go" and piss in our pants, literary! That's because the conscious mind is not fully in touch with the subconscious.

[joe dolan]

Getting in touch is perhaps a better description. Getting in touch with the subconscious. For example bowel and bladder control is managed by the subconscious mind for most of the time. But there is often a lack of connection between the conscious mind and subconscious control. When we get really scared, we "let go" and piss in our pants, literary! That's because the conscious mind is not fully in touch with the subconscious.

not quite what i had in my mind my good man but indeed an excellent point. as soon as the medical establishment wake to principal the of mind/body connection we'll be far healthier people

[joe dolan]

and off the point, my friend just sent me a pink floyd album. syb barret died 1 year ago yesterday, much respect!!!

[yinon]

I see the shadow as the "not me" within that I don't like. As an example, in a personal relationship, the part of the other person that I like is a "not me" but it's not part of my shadow. The part of the other that I don't like is a "not me" that is a part of my shadow.

Interesting post

Right People who didn't manage well with this phase of development cannot apply easily the law of mirror. They don't have inner control on their impulse.


STAGE III POWER AND CONTROL: - Anal phase


From Erickson point of viiew:

MAIN DEVELOPMENTAL TASK: to learn to hold on and to let go


FAVORABLE OUTCOME:
sense of self-control and will power

UNFAVORABLE OUTCOME: resulting from parental permissiveness: problems
in management of aggression; resulting
from parental over-restrictiveness: extreme obedience to authority; conformity; need for approval; shame, doubt; fear of loss of


STAGE III POWER AND CONTROL:


Once their initial commitments to membership in a group have been made, prospective (now provisional) members must come face to face with the reality of the group and begin to negotiate various issues with each other within it (e.g. determining the parameters of their individual and collective
responses to the demand characteristics
of the unfolding situation). What is really going on here? Who is in charge? How do I fit into this arrangement?
What is my status/role here? What am I supposed to be doing, thinking,
learning? Do I like it? Notice that these questions are only slightly less self-centered in topic and tone than the basic trust/mistrust questions listed above. This is a phase of the process in which members of a group-in formation must needs struggle with each other and with the nominal leadership (where such exists) to arrive at some "definition of the situation" that is reasonable and workable for them, both individually and collectively. Who is to determine the nature and scope of the prevailing rules and goals? The likelihood of dropouts
continues to be quite high here, as is the probability of frankly hostile, aggressive,
and negative behavior toward the group development process itself and those responsible for imposing it. Not uncommonly, the effort to gain a degree of power and control leads to proposals to formalize the proceedings by enacting rules, regulations, voting procedures, etc. The result of following these leads is invariably the establishment
of a "zero-sum" game in which every disagreement is "resolved" by having
some winners and some losers. During this rather chaotic phase, a leadership
aiming for a more "win-win" approach needs to focus on allowing resistance to be expressed and rebellion
to be developed within limits conducive
to the protection of individual rights and general safety. In order to be effective, leadership will continue: a) to provide activities conducive to increased
individual and collective competence,


http://ocw.mit.edu/NR/rdonlyres/Brain-and-Cognitive-Sciences/9-70Spring-2005/90A40157-6044-4613-B66F-E44F00056B7F/0/970_05_developme.pdf

[yinon]

To become a responsible parent is a really hard task because Many variables impact the family system. For example: My little daughter has been really sick when she was young and her brother felt our absence. We had to work out through the past years with him to control his impulsion. He is doing better now and I know that we (the parents) were responsible . Because the father was absent and focus on his business, I have been alone with the task and I missed time for my little boy. When we give birth we must deeply engage ourself in the process to help them become mature.

What a journey!

We all try to do our best ... but life test us roughly sometimes.

[yinon]

If one of the parents didn t manage well with this phase, he cannot let go and try to control. He doesn t listen his partner because he is immature and insecure.

Be humble and listen what your partner has to say.

When you pass well all this phases ...you become an integrated being and can be responsible in the way you relate to others.

You become a responsible LOVER and partner

[eternal_spirit]

I think most people are capable of becoming a murderer if pushed enough.

[yinon]

I think most people are capable of becoming a murderer if pushed enough.

I agree Eternal. Sometimes I observe kids behave and I can see how some of them are manipulative. My little daughter has been protected more than my boy because she was sick . Today she wants all the attention. My son become angry and I deeply know that he has the right to share my love.

Kids who has been protected too much are really fragile later. They cannot accept easily to be wrong. Mine doesn't ask a lot. I taught him to resolve his conflict. Often we talk about it. I don't let him alone in all this. I play the role of a life coach by his side. Other kids ask to their parents to do it. They manipulate them and their parents don't teach them to face confrontation.

We must support and confront our kids to help them face the reality here. The strongers have been loved and challenge.

You cannot destroy one kid and infatuate another one. In doing it you create an unbalance society.

One of my friend is perfect on the forefront but she has been the more fragile woman I ever met. She cannot accept easily to be wrong .When people confront her dark side , she becomes depress. She unconsciouly manipulates people in doing it.

[Anders Lindman]

Interesting post

Right People who didn't manage well with this phase of development cannot apply easily the law of mirror. They don't have inner control on their impulse.


STAGE III POWER AND CONTROL: - Anal phase


I have a radical approach to this problem. Whatever programming I developed as a child, it is not important. Instead of trying to change old patterns, I focus on new patterns. That focus will change the old patterns whatever they are. The good stuff in my childhood patterns will be preserved, and the dysfunctional patterns healed.

[yinon]

I have a radical approach to this problem. Whatever programming I developed as a child, it is not important. Instead of trying to change old patterns, I focus on new patterns. That focus will change the old patterns whatever they are. The good stuff in my childhood patterns will be preserved, and the dysfunctional patterns healed.


That focus will change the old pattern whatever they are:

I disagree on that part and I agree partially with you.

New patterns don't change our past shitt... I have seen positive thinker completly unconscious about the way they avoid the reality of this world.

We are build like computers with old memories infected by viruses...

If you don't clean the fundation of your puter you gonna perpetuate the same bugs eternally. My humble opinion. Be aware of your past, learn to love your past... See how all served you and you gonna be ready to integrate new patterns

[chandrakavi]

Take a look at the video based on the book THE LORD OF THE FLIES,
it shows the killer instict in all since they are kids and teenagers.
what a couple of kids do when left alone in an island all by themselves.

In CRIMINOLOGY studies, it is said the all have the killer instinct.

[Anders Lindman]

That focus will change the old pattern whatever they are:

I disagree on that part and I agree partially with you.

New patterns don't change our past shitt... I have seen positive thinker completly unconscious about the way they avoid the reality of this world.

We are build like computers with old memories infected by viruses...

If you don't clean the fundation of your puter you gonna perpetuate the same bugs eternally. My humble opinion. Be aware of your past, learn to love your past... See how all served you and you gonna be ready to integrate new patterns

I just read something Ken Wilber wrote. That old patterns can even get worse! Even with personal development techniques and meditation and things like that. Much of the old patterns becomes separated into a "not me", and no matter how much meditation, positive thinking or affirmations one uses, that separation will still remain, and actually become more and more strengthen that way.

First those patterns must be owned by the individual himself or herself, Ken WIlber says, and only after that has been done, can the old patterns be transformed/transcended.

[Anders Lindman]

Take a look at the video based on the book THE LORD OF THE FLIES,
it shows the killer instict in all since they are kids and teenagers.
what a couple of kids do when left alone in an island all by themselves.

In CRIMINOLOGY studies, it is said the all have the killer instinct.

I'm not sure about that. The lord of the flies is fiction, maybe even propaganda and mind control info. I think absolutely there is a killer instinct in everybody, but the human mind can transcend it. I use my killer instinct only in video games and things like that. Something like this:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4392915597663174837

:-)

[yinon]

....

First those patterns must be owned by the individual himself or herself, Ken WIlber says, and only after that has been done, can the old patterns be transformed/transcended.



AlleluiA!!!!

Why some can apply it more easily? Even if they know the mecanic related to the law of mirror and they understand on the intellectual level how all this works, they prefer to not face their dark side. I feel their ego is stronger for the past stuff in their life who stayed unresolved.

Many are called to face the truth but few have the discipline and the courage to do it. That's why I believe you cannot apply the law of mirror without working on their past issues.

Yes meditation and yoga are plasters if you don't face your dark side.

[Anders Lindman]

AlleluiA!!!!

Why some can apply it more easily? Even if they know the mecanic related to the law of mirror and they understand on the intellectual level how all this works, they prefer to not face their dark side. I feel their ego is stronger for the past stuff in their life who stayed unresolved.

Many are called to face the truth but few have the discipline and the courage to do it. That's why I believe you cannot apply the law of mirror without working on their past issues.

Yes meditation and yoga are plasters if you don't face your dark side.

It seems to be very difficult to see one's own shadow. When I think about someone, say Hillary Clinton for example, then it's my own mental image about Hillary Clinton I see and nothing else. The good things about Hillary Clinton I have no problem with, but the bad things about her disturb me. What I fail to see is that it is not actually Hillary Clinton that disturbs me, but the shadow part of my own mental image about her. And even if I can understand the shadow intellectually, that is not at all the same thing as understanding it on a deeper level and practicing it in my ordinary daily life.

[yinon]

It seems to be very difficult to see one's own shadow. When I think about someone, say Hillary Clinton for example, then it's my own mental image about Hillary Clinton I see and nothing else. The good things about Hillary Clinton I have no problem with, but the bad things about her disturb me. What I fail to see is that it is not actually Hillary Clinton that disturbs me, but the shadow part of my own mental image about her. And even if I can understand the shadow intellectually, that is not at all the same thing as understanding it on a deeper level and practicing it in my ordinary daily life.

Think about Eckart Tolle. The guy did a good job to vulgarize the quantum mechanic theory but he served us a fast food reciepe in spirituality. I have met many who escaped their spiritual homeworks with him. He tried to give us a miracle way to get there. I listened his followers talk about THE NOW on the mental level and they don't touch it.

Why some of us have a hard time to face their own's shadow? Meditate on it and you'll realize that the few who achieved it worked deeply on themselves to get there. No easy way to touch heaven even if everything is here NOW....

[yinon]

Tolly had success because he served us at the SPIRITUAL McDONALD table.

The SECRET is another SPIRITUAL take out! Make money and you will be happy!

LOL

BIG JOKE! BE RESPONSIBLE for the world to come....

Have the courage to elevate your message ...

[Anders Lindman]

Think about Eckart Tolle. The guy did a good job to vulgarize the quantum mechanic theory but he served us a fast food reciepe in spirituality. I have met many who escaped their spiritual homeworks with him. He tried to give us a miracle way to get there. I listened his followers talk about THE NOW on the mental level and they don't touch it.

Why some of us have a hard time to face their own's shadow? Meditate on it and you'll realize that the few who achieved it worked deeply on themselves to get there. No easy way to touch heaven even if everything is here NOW....

Eckhart Tolle has some good points I think, but he could very well be in it mainly for the money. Seriously!

I would promote the Art of Distrust. This means that I practice to distrust everything. Including myself. Including the distrust itself. In this practice the starting point when observing the world is distrust. The idea is to boost one's own distrust to a ridiculously high level, and keep on boosting! :D

[james777]

interesting........:eek:

[yinon]

Eckhart Tolle has some good points I think, but he could very well be in it mainly for the money. Seriously!

I would promote the Art of Distrust. This means that I practice to distrust everything. Including myself. Including the distrust itself. In this practice the starting point when observing the world is distrust. The idea is to boost one's own distrust to a ridiculously high level, and keep on boosting! :D

Well expressed Anders. Exactly why I had an American gun on my head for ten years. I condemned the material cult without substance. Are you in spirituality for money or to truly help people?

I did the second choice with all the courage I needed to face their obsession
about false power, false beauty, false spirituality. I am done with them

My new life mission:

I am opening a take-out in the mountains . I am gonna serve real french fries. Have you ever taste it?

I want to reach the truckers around here. I am gonna work 3 months per year in continuing to help people who truly want face the truth in not becoming their new guru , as Tolly ... add more names if you want

LOL...We must laugh because life is less heavier

[Anders Lindman]

Well expressed Anders. Exactly why I had an American gun on my head for ten years. I condemned the material cult without substance. Are you in spirituality for money or to truly help people?

I did the second choice with all the courage I needed to face their obsession
about false power, false beauty, false spirituality. I am done with them

My new life mission:

I am opening a take-out in the mountains . I am gonna serve real french fries. Have you ever taste it?

I want to reach the truckers around here. I am gonna work 3 months per year in continuing to help people who truly want face the truth in not becoming their new guru , as Tolly ... add more names if you want

LOL...We must laugh because life is less heavier

I want a stronger materialistic society, not a weaker one. A society that is technologically advanced while at the same time preserving nature.

[yinon]

I want a stronger materialistic society, not a weaker one. A society that is technologically advanced while at the same time preserving nature.


I hope you are not naive... If you want to realize it, the real a$$ holes must truly work on themselves. I have observed them in the past years. They play the nice guys and girls on the forefront but they don't transform anything deeply. An IMAGE without consistance...