Survival in the UK

[entrangermercenary]

Lets just blow this survival myth out the water a bit. The country side in the UK is pretty shit for food ie meat. Lets rephrase that its ok for a few hunters with air rifles or other light weapons as the countryside is Now.
So when the shit goes down where are all the city dwellers likely to look for safe haven or to get out of the towns " the countryside "
So now we have to look at forested areas with a sustainable food chain deer, wild boar ,squirrels, bunnies or basically any thing that moves. Then when we bang a few million people into these areas u ain't going for a shit unless its on someones head :eek: A few million would imo be a conservative estimate because huge amounts of the population in various cities would be on the move out of them. AHH but what about the mountains, moors or plains :rolleyes: Well I don't know how many on here have actually tried to survive in these places for a few weeks as it is now without people every where it isn't like the films !!
Then the weather ffs.What a shitter that is, wet day after wet day , no where to dry your clothes but by lying on them.Where does the Fuel for fires or cooking come from?? unless you want to eat cold food for weeks on end. That's just the fucking summer :D

Then the winter comes, been lucky in the Uk for quite a few years, been pretty mild :) but always a rogue winter around the corner ie last year.
That just amplifies everything. Igloos :eek: yep warmer than the minus 20 outside and sheltered from the wind but still freezing. A tip never share an igloo with some prick that smokes if you dont smoke, it ain't good.
Me I live in the country side 9 miles from the nearest town on a msr. What would I do if the shit hit the fan.... Pray :cool:

Discuss :)

[hunter77]

Lets just blow this survival myth out the water a bit. The country side in the UK is pretty shit for food ie meat. Lets rephrase that its ok for a few hunters with air rifles or other light weapons as the countryside is Now.
So when the shit goes down where are all the city dwellers likely to look for safe haven or to get out of the towns " the countryside "
So now we have to look at forested areas with a sustainable food chain deer, wild boar ,squirrels, bunnies or basically any thing that moves. Then when we bang a few million people into these areas u ain't going for a shit unless its on someones head :eek: A few million would imo be a conservative estimate because huge amounts of the population in various cities would be on the move out of them. AHH but what about the mountains, moors or plains :rolleyes: Well I don't know how many on here have actually tried to survive in these places for a few weeks as it is now without people every where it isn't like the films !!
Then the weather ffs.What a shitter that is, wet day after wet day , no where to dry your clothes but by lying on them.Where does the Fuel for fires or cooking come from?? unless you want to eat cold food for weeks on end. That's just the fucking summer :D

Then the winter comes, been lucky in the Uk for quite a few years, been pretty mild :) but always a rogue winter around the corner ie last year.
That just amplifies everything. Igloos :eek: yep warmer than the minus 20 outside and sheltered from the wind but still freezing. A tip never share an igloo with some prick that smokes if you dont smoke, it ain't good.
Me I live in the country side 9 miles from the nearest town on a msr. What would I do if the shit hit the fan.... Pray :cool:

Discuss :)

i see what your saying, but isnt it better to have the skills to hunt ,fish ect than not to.
i think alot of people would stay in the cities and wait for the help that would obviously never come, then end up kiling each other.
imo survival is about giving yourself the best chance, so learning a few skills like trapping, fishing shooting and identifying wild forna can only help also how to prepare it.
as for igloos i think thas a bit far feched. but learning to build a shelter isnt a bad thing. as for your sarcasm bout this subject thats your perogative but dont take the piss out of us folk who'd rather shoot and collect a few wild meals rather than put our hrd earned into the hands of the powers that be

[waylander]

Lets just blow this survival myth out the water a bit. The country side in the UK is pretty shit for food ie meat. Lets rephrase that its ok for a few hunters with air rifles or other light weapons as the countryside is Now.
So when the shit goes down where are all the city dwellers likely to look for safe haven or to get out of the towns " the countryside "
So now we have to look at forested areas with a sustainable food chain deer, wild boar ,squirrels, bunnies or basically any thing that moves. Then when we bang a few million people into these areas u ain't going for a shit unless its on someones head :eek: A few million would imo be a conservative estimate because huge amounts of the population in various cities would be on the move out of them. AHH but what about the mountains, moors or plains :rolleyes: Well I don't know how many on here have actually tried to survive in these places for a few weeks as it is now without people every where it isn't like the films !!
Then the weather ffs.What a shitter that is, wet day after wet day , no where to dry your clothes but by lying on them.Where does the Fuel for fires or cooking come from?? unless you want to eat cold food for weeks on end. That's just the fucking summer :D

Then the winter comes, been lucky in the Uk for quite a few years, been pretty mild :) but always a rogue winter around the corner ie last year.
That just amplifies everything. Igloos :eek: yep warmer than the minus 20 outside and sheltered from the wind but still freezing. A tip never share an igloo with some prick that smokes if you dont smoke, it ain't good.
Me I live in the country side 9 miles from the nearest town on a msr. What would I do if the shit hit the fan.... Pray :cool:

Discuss :)

I'd get myself a good dog.

With it I could hunt.

It would warn me of these wandering masses from cities.

It would protect me from the wandering masses from cities.

It would cuddle up to me in my igloo and keep me warm. (and doesn't smoke)

Best survival companion/ aid / tool you could want.

Waylander:p

[hunter77]

I'd get myself a good dog.

With it I could hunt.

It would warn me of these wandering masses from cities.

It would protect me from the wandering masses from cities.

It would cuddle up to me in my igloo and keep me warm. (and doesn't smoke)

Best survival companion/ aid / tool you could want.

Waylander:p

and it will go to the places you can't to collect our quarry and be more loyal than it is possible for a human to be:):)

[jonas parker]

It might be time for you all to be looking for places in other countries. I'm not necessarily saying Texas (although it's fine by me if you all want to head to the USA), but check out the remote mountain and forest areas on the continent. Also, aren't there a number of small islands of the coast where a person could pretty well supply him/herself with fish and a small garden? Think a bit outside the box. Anyone reading this has internet access, so research materials are close to infinite.

There's another, darker side to consider. After 2 months of SHTF, how many people who "don't get it" would still be left in the large urban areas. The concept of masses of people abandoning the cities and surging into the countryside may possibly be flawed. Disease, starvation, robbers, and all kinds of misfortunes will thin out the ranks fairly quickly. Those unprepared might just "die in place" or die trying to get out of the urban areas. Only a small percentage of the unprepared will actually make it out for any distance.

I really feel that the survivors will be the folks who recognize the imminent collapse and are the first to leave to a safer place. The latecomers will be too late.

[entrangermercenary]

i see what your saying, but isnt it better to have the skills to hunt ,fish ect than not to.
i think alot of people would stay in the cities and wait for the help that would obviously never come, then end up kiling each other.
imo survival is about giving yourself the best chance, so learning a few skills like trapping, fishing shooting and identifying wild forna can only help also how to prepare it.
as for igloos i think thas a bit far feched. but learning to build a shelter isnt a bad thing. as for your sarcasm bout this subject thats your perogative but dont take the piss out of us folk who'd rather shoot and collect a few wild meals rather than put our hrd earned into the hands of the powers that be

Bank holiday next weekend, so go and have a look in the countryside how just a few more people make a difference!! A lot will stay in the cities but lets say a lowly 10% leave each city and head out to the country , thats a lot of people.
I do about 280-450 miles per day in the countryside of glostershire, herefordshire, monmouth, gwent,(brecons) s wales, west wales,and mid wales. Very few places I would want to survive. In survive I mean eat,( with sustainable food sources) sleep, shelter( fuel for fires) and also defend the area.
Nothing wrong with a bit of hunting, fishing . Is that going to give you an edge, well it totally depends on the scenario that may happen eh.
Have you ever had to run for your life ?? Sorta focuses the mind quickly on survival in various different ways. Hopefully it will never come to that but if it does a major part of survival is your mental strength. In fact if you havent got the mental strength and the motivation lifes a bitch :D

Igloos !! Now that is irony saying its far fetched on this forum:D So possibly a super volcano could erupt dropping the temperture 5 or 6 degrees putting us on par with Canada, as we should be anyway if it wasnt for the gulf stream. It was only a few months ago I was standing in snow up to my waist. Now was that not far fetched if you said that was going to happen last summer.:)

Any way what Im saying is survival is not going to be how you think it is now. Fishing, snaring ,surviving unaposed without conflict of intrests with other people.

OH another thing people harp on here about is crossbows ffs.I fucked about with them once it was a panzer mk2 with sights ( yep not a tank) waste of frigging time. Even trialed them in the millitary unit I was with . Binned. Better than nothing correct thats about it tho

And your dogs slluuuurrrrp they make a nice curry :D Yep I do own a little terrier but no good to me in a survival situation when Im fighting for my life. The only good thing I would say for them is if its a settled static situation ie camp they will warn you of impending doom, but dont be supprised if its taken out.

[unusual_suspect]

It might be time for you all to be looking for places in other countries. I'm not necessarily saying Texas (although it's fine by me if you all want to head to the USA), but check out the remote mountain and forest areas on the continent. Also, aren't there a number of small islands of the coast where a person could pretty well supply him/herself with fish and a small garden? Think a bit outside the box. Anyone reading this has internet access, so research materials are close to infinite.

There's another, darker side to consider. After 2 months of SHTF, how many people who "don't get it" would still be left in the large urban areas. The concept of masses of people abandoning the cities and surging into the countryside may possibly be flawed. Disease, starvation, robbers, and all kinds of misfortunes will thin out the ranks fairly quickly. Those unprepared might just "die in place" or die trying to get out of the urban areas. Only a small percentage of the unprepared will actually make it out for any distance.

I really feel that the survivors will be the folks who recognize the imminent collapse and are the first to leave to a safer place. The latecomers will be too late.

I think you make a really good point there, I think many people will be in a state of denial and will not try to leave till it's too late, get in to the country while you still can, cities will be hell on earth.

I have gone for a forest habitat.

[cruise4]

If I was them the all obvious 'retreat' terrain would be smart dusted or similar already. We are goiing to have to stand up, barring intervention. I'm ready.

[tom bombadil]

Hi ho, entrangermercenary and all :)

Discuss.....ok

A lot of folk think that a calamity will be the pre-curser for the Poo hitting the Fan, and that is as maybe, but I think that when we 'woke-up' from the dream that was how we used to be, we might have found out that the Shit had hit allready!

What do I mean? Well if by the shtf is a threat to us as humans then we are already under attack from those that are controling us, and to 'survive' the onslaught of eat 'this' and 'drink' that (that most folk truly have no knowage and therefore choice not to) from tptb we need to change our lifestyle.

By that I mean we do need to move away now from the big cities. By hook or by crook we should move to a new home. If we are able we should sell-up and move to a place that has land that you can protect and grow your own. You dont need a lot of space..
...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Q-6eDQ8c-A but I would go for one with a distance from front gate to your front door. Also if you are out in the styks enough then I would also buy some cheap land (Close by) and grow on that too. I repeat though you do not need tons of space to live comfortably.

For those that rent then you could look for a place with a yard too. Grow on it if you can.

In all cases keep your food close.


If on the otherhand one might be thinking that by the shtf is a 'something' spectacular then other planning is called for. Is it this 'other' entrangermercenary that you wish to talk over?


Nelly.

[unusual_suspect]

Tom B, good points there, I have been thinking this also, I suspect the ts is htf right now and while people are expecting some sort of huge catastrophic event, look around you, things are pretty bad.

[margaretr]

According to the Mayan calendar the 'sh.t' will hit the fan Nov 2009 and will last almost a year
I am 66 now and do not have the stamina to move to a sparsly populated area and successfully survive there.
My only option is to stay put and survive with resources I can accumulate between now and then.
I am fortunate to live at the edge of a small town with a moorland stream within easy reach.
I have stockpiled food supplements and herbal remedies.
I am accumulating a supply of dried and tinned food.
I have bought a supply of vegetable seeds
I have bought a 13 gallon water carrier and water purification drops.
A problem is how I will keep warm? I do not have facilities for an open fire in my flat, so I will have to build a fire outside.
There is an area of woodland at the rear, but 'green wood' will not be burnable - I could burn my furniture in the back garden:D

By isolating myself I think I could survive for that year.
My only worry would be marauding gangs who would want my stores.
I live on 1st floor so am not as vulnerable as the ground floor residents, and I expect the pillaging will be directed at wealthy homes first.

Any suggestions to improve this plan will be appreciated.

[decim]

According to the Mayan calendar the 'sh.t' will hit the fan Nov 2009 and will last almost a year
I am 66 now and do not have the stamina to move to a sparsly populated area and successfully survive there.
My only option is to stay put and survive with resources I can accumulate between now and then.
I am fortunate to live at the edge of a small town with a moorland stream within easy reach.
I have stockpiled food supplements and herbal remedies.
I am accumulating a supply of dried and tinned food.
I have bought a supply of vegetable seeds
I have bought a 13 gallon water carrier and water purification drops.
A problem is how I will keep warm? I do not have facilities for an open fire in my flat, so I will have to build a fire outside.
There is an area of woodland at the rear, but 'green wood' will not be burnable - I could burn my furniture in the back garden:D

By isolating myself I think I could survive for that year.
My only worry would be marauding gangs who would want my stores.
I live on 1st floor so am not as vulnerable as the ground floor residents, and I expect the pillaging will be directed at wealthy homes first.

Any suggestions to improve this plan will be appreciated.

If you are intent on staying put, get a suitably large dog(as big as your food store will allow) & have some hoardings to cover your windows from the inside.
Weapons, axe etc
Heating? Invest in the best outdoor clothing you can & a very good sleeping bag.
Have an emergency plan B, a way to exit the building.
Also make sure you have some fire fighting equipment, blanket, extinguisher.
Wind up solar/radio AM/FM/SW/charger/torch/s

[margaretr]

If you are intent on staying put, get a suitably large dog(as big as your food store will allow) & have some hoardings to cover your windows from the inside.
Weapons, axe etc
Heating? Invest in the best outdoor clothing you can & a very good sleeping bag.
Have an emergency plan B, a way to exit the building.
Also make sure you have some fire fighting equipment, blanket, extinguisher.
Wind up solar/radio AM/FM/SW/charger/torch/s

I think I will 'pass' on having a dog- so will limit amount of sewage disposal needed:)
I already have venetian blinds and some blackout fabric blinds I could add as well, so my place would look uninhabited.
The axe sounds good - will do
I have a fire extinguisher and tow rope for a window exit, I will add a fire blanket.
"Wind up solar/radio AM/FM/SW/charger/torch/s" - will get
:)Sound thinking Batman(Decim):).....many thanks

[tom bombadil]

According to the Mayan calendar the 'sh.t' will hit the fan Nov 2009 and will last almost a year
I am 66 now and do not have the stamina to move to a sparsly populated area and successfully survive there.
My only option is to stay put and survive with resources I can accumulate between now and then.
I am fortunate to live at the edge of a small town with a moorland stream within easy reach.
I have stockpiled food supplements and herbal remedies.
I am accumulating a supply of dried and tinned food.
I have bought a supply of vegetable seeds
I have bought a 13 gallon water carrier and water purification drops.
A problem is how I will keep warm? I do not have facilities for an open fire in my flat, so I will have to build a fire outside.
There is an area of woodland at the rear, but 'green wood' will not be burnable - I could burn my furniture in the back garden:D

By isolating myself I think I could survive for that year.
My only worry would be marauding gangs who would want my stores.
I live on 1st floor so am not as vulnerable as the ground floor residents, and I expect the pillaging will be directed at wealthy homes first.

Any suggestions to improve this plan will be appreciated.

Hullo margaretr. I am not going into the Mayan calendar now cos I am still learning on that one, but I will say that the general concensious, as you have said as much, is that the change will come over time and not as a shtf idea.


I will go over your situation and pick at it :p if I may?

Do you have a balcony?

You are lucky I think as you said you live in a small town, and that is even better. We will all need ties to others. So first of all you need to make freinds if you havent already. If you have one that knows you well, then you could talk over you and he/she getting together and living at their gaf. I am not talking of shacking up together now, but when the time comes. You should be planting those seeds now, and stocking up on the procedes of them, both seed and food can be harvested and stored. Learn 'canning' (as the yanks say) or bottling and preserving now, not later. The same for those herbal remidies. They are a brilliant and often forgotten part of living off the land. You could also learn more by having a few books at home at all times, and applying those remidies when you need them now.

Dont forget fruit seeds too.

Learn to dry your own now. You do not need an expencive bit of kit to do it. You can do it with some ply board and screws.

Look here http://www.lakeland.co.uk/L?content=virtual_catalogue.htm in the gardening cat. pages 17 (the tom hanger) 22+23, 53(Fresha Tank Water Cleaner) and any of the windowsill stuff Might intrest you.

You need more water storage. Yes you need to be able to go to the srtream and get it from there, but you also need to supply and store your own. Look here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MM11TuRF8Cw&feature=channel_page[/url] and at others on the same site http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=peakmoment&view=videos . Also [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFIkJGAS8EI&feature=channel_page are intresting. You will have to sort the wheat from the chaff as it were but all news is good news for us on these topics. I cant find it at the mo but there is one where a woman has gone and supplied her whole crop with her own harvested water. Harder for you where you are but now you know how, right :)

On storing water, if you think that the supply will run dry or be cut off, then you should fill your bath with all you can asap.

I suggest a smaller 'to and fro' carrier. You could wash at the stream too to save time and effort.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8Q9Rw6sRVA&feature=quicklist one site leads to another.

Keeping warm I will come back on soon (have to pop out) and it can be complicated.

Again, do you have a balcony?


Nelly.

[jp13]

I find myself in agreement with most of the stuff you post Tom, I live in biggest city in UK and like you I feel in some way the shtf has already happened. I can't drive, never learned, and I need to get a lot fitter, I cannot believe how unfit I am compared to say 20 years ago, and now I am not drinking and eating better food, less exercise and still smoking though. I know enough about herbs to know which one's are good for what. I need to strenghten myself.

[margaretr]

Hullo margaretr. I am not going into the Mayan calendar now cos I am still learning on that one, but I will say that the general concensious, as you have said as much, is that the change will come over time and not as a shtf idea.


I will go over your situation and pick at it :p if I may?

Do you have a balcony?

You are lucky I think as you said you live in a small town, and that is even better. We will all need ties to others. So first of all you need to make freinds if you havent already. If you have one that knows you well, then you could talk over you and he/she getting together and living at their gaf. I am not talking of shacking up together now, but when the time comes. You should be planting those seeds now, and stocking up on the procedes of them, both seed and food can be harvested and stored. Learn 'canning' (as the yanks say) or bottling and preserving now, not later. The same for those herbal remidies. They are a brilliant and often forgotten part of living off the land. You could also learn more by having a few books at home at all times, and applying those remidies when you need them now.

Dont forget fruit seeds too.

Learn to dry your own now. You do not need an expencive bit of kit to do it. You can do it with some ply board and screws.

Look here http://www.lakeland.co.uk/L?content=virtual_catalogue.htm in the gardening cat. pages 17 (the tom hanger) 22+23, 53(Fresha Tank Water Cleaner) and any of the windowsill stuff Might intrest you.

You need more water storage. Yes you need to be able to go to the srtream and get it from there, but you also need to supply and store your own. Look here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MM11TuRF8Cw&feature=channel_page[/url] and at others on the same site http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=peakmoment&view=videos . Also [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFIkJGAS8EI&feature=channel_page are intresting. You will have to sort the wheat from the chaff as it were but all news is good news for us on these topics. I cant find it at the mo but there is one where a woman has gone and supplied her whole crop with her own harvested water. Harder for you where you are but now you know how, right :)

On storing water, if you think that the supply will run dry or be cut off, then you should fill your bath with all you can asap.

I suggest a smaller 'to and fro' carrier. You could wash at the stream too to save time and effort.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8Q9Rw6sRVA&feature=quicklist one site leads to another.

Keeping warm I will come back on soon (have to pop out) and it can be complicated.

Again, do you have a balcony?


Nelly.

Thanks for more ideas.
I don't have a balcony and no garden really - just communal lawns back and front which are mown by my landlord, so planting now will be difficult, I will only be able to use containers on windowsills.

I already have a wheeled shopping trolley which can accommodate my water container (the type seen in high streets in use by the elderly:D)

My son lives a twenty minute walk away, and that is mainly across fields with only a hundred yards of B road where I would be at risk. He has no land for planting either.
There is a large area of alottments right next to me. I already buy eggs there. I hope that it is not subjected to food raiders from the town. I contemplate I may need to dig up the landlord's lawn if need be, or trade some seeds for ready grown until I get my own garden going

I have ordered a solar/windup/radio/torch combo.
I have looked at outdoor wear and those shiny survival blankets- have earmarked some for further scrutiny/watching on ebay.
I don't think a sleeping bag is a good idea - I will sleep in thermal clothing - better to facilitate a 'flight/escape' if ever needed.

I have 3 neighbours - I am friendly with all 3 - all men - but none can be relied on - one is mentally backward and the other two are in poor health.
I will wait for your suggestions on clothing before I purchase.

Thanks for helping this old biddy plan survival :D

[jonas parker]

Margaret, we live in a small town (2,500 people) and figure to stay here. We know our close neighbors well, and we're all on the same page when it comes to what's happening in the world. Get to know your neighbors, have them over for tea, sound them out about "being prepared", weed out the "don't get its" and plan with the like-minded.

As far as keeping warm is concerned, head to the local "Army Surplus Store". You can probably buy a surplus "artic" sleeping bag (good to -20ºF) a whole lot cheaper than a new one from the sporting goods stores. If you have a dog, you'll have warning enough to get up before anyone can break into your home. You don't have to sleep in your clothes. Forget the "space blankets". They are overpriced, wear out quickly, and are good only for hikers who get lost.

A small camp stove will allow you to cook as needed. Don't burn your furniture, but if you have a garage or place to stack it, pick up the green wood that falls from the trees, saw it to convenient lengths, and stack it in a dry place outside with good ventilation to dry. Or as an alternative to wood, you can try this:
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=48706

The dog is a great idea but you don't need the "Hound of the Baskervilles" to accomplish the dual mission of early warning and deterrent. Something the size of a Lakeland Terrier (terriers are very territorial) will work wonders and still not be too big to feed and clean up after. The local RSPCA shelter can probably provide you with a suitable dog.

While I like the idea of a hatchet, an axe might be better... the longer handle puts more distance between you and a possible attacker (who'll be busy prying the dog off of his leg anyway).

As you look at your preparations, you'll always be thinking of what else you need. However, you're already far ahead of 90% of the population right now!

If you have questions, PM me!

JP

[alzee]

According to the Mayan calendar the 'sh.t' will hit the fan Nov 2009 and will last almost a year
I am 66 now and do not have the stamina to move to a sparsly populated area and successfully survive there.
My only option is to stay put and survive with resources I can accumulate between now and then.
I am fortunate to live at the edge of a small town with a moorland stream within easy reach.
I have stockpiled food supplements and herbal remedies.
I am accumulating a supply of dried and tinned food.
I have bought a supply of vegetable seeds
I have bought a 13 gallon water carrier and water purification drops.
A problem is how I will keep warm? I do not have facilities for an open fire in my flat, so I will have to build a fire outside.
There is an area of woodland at the rear, but 'green wood' will not be burnable - I could burn my furniture in the back garden:D

By isolating myself I think I could survive for that year.
My only worry would be marauding gangs who would want my stores.
I live on 1st floor so am not as vulnerable as the ground floor residents, and I expect the pillaging will be directed at wealthy homes first.

Any suggestions to improve this plan will be appreciated.

To deal with those who want your rice and other goodies, I recommend getting a Pistol Crossbow. They're not expensive and you can buy 80lb self-cocking pistols which can be reloaded quickly.

[entrangermercenary]

Hi ho, entrangermercenary and all :)

Discuss.....ok

A lot of folk think that a calamity will be the pre-curser for the Poo hitting the Fan, and that is as maybe, but I think that when we 'woke-up' from the dream that was how we used to be, we might have found out that the Shit had hit allready!

What do I mean? Well if by the shtf is a threat to us as humans then we are already under attack from those that are controling us, and to 'survive' the onslaught of eat 'this' and 'drink' that (that most folk truly have no knowage and therefore choice not to) from tptb we need to change our lifestyle.

By that I mean we do need to move away now from the big cities. By hook or by crook we should move to a new home. If we are able we should sell-up and move to a place that has land that you can protect and grow your own. You dont need a lot of space..
...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Q-6eDQ8c-A but I would go for one with a distance from front gate to your front door. Also if you are out in the styks enough then I would also buy some cheap land (Close by) and grow on that too. I repeat though you do not need tons of space to live comfortably.

For those that rent then you could look for a place with a yard too. Grow on it if you can.

In all cases keep your food close.


If on the otherhand one might be thinking that by the shtf is a 'something' spectacular then other planning is called for. Is it this 'other' entrangermercenary that you wish to talk over?


Nelly.

Hi ya Tom nice post :)

I personally do not feet any threat at this moment in time. Except for the fucker that had loosened wheel nuts on my vehicle twice in the last 8mths. Funny that, as it has never happened in 10yrs and as soon as I come on here it happened :eek:

Ok land. Well I have land so that is not a problem.For other people the price of land is not cheap anymore, and the other problem is getting a farmer to sell you some. Seems there is woodland around for sale, sorta copsy type woodland, which If there was a few of you from 1 area u mite b able to look into this. I personally dont think it will b very cheap but im guessing as havnt done any research into it.

Brought a poly tunnel just before xmas and will be sorting that out this summer. Another thing people can look at. Not sure what the smallest size is , but sure there must b 6ft ones. Also as far as Im aware no planning needed. Not so sure for you townies tho if u want to stick one in the backgarden:cool:

Water supply !! Well the land we have has a mains water supply for the animal troughs which is fine as things stand at the moment. But if things go pear shape in society and we have a break down I think u can forget about your water and electric.300yds away we have a big fucking river ie the Severn, and unless I can walk across it on bodies that will do me fine !!

Shelter is no probs as knocked up a barn with a couple of stables. Now fuel for fires etc. Well the river Severn is a tidal river and when I first came to this area I would collect the wood and use it on our fire. Only a certain size tide will push up this high. so once that retreats it may not back for a week or 2 leaving plenty of wood.
Also there are salmon (not many), plenty of eels, shad
http://www.animalcorner.co.uk/endangered/bi_marallishad.html

And elvers, although this is the worst year on record for them !!

http://www.glasseel.com/

So hopefully my family can cope if an emergency arises !!

I didnt plan to b living in this area but things happen, and as it goes its worked well. The land was a bit of luck as well (4acres) but had to work hard to get the money for it. So its a bit of luck, hard work and fate that helps you get along, and a good mental attitude.
:)

[entrangermercenary]

I think I will 'pass' on having a dog- so will limit amount of sewage disposal needed:)
I already have venetian blinds and some blackout fabric blinds I could add as well, so my place would look uninhabited.
The axe sounds good - will do
I have a fire extinguisher and tow rope for a window exit, I will add a fire blanket.
"Wind up solar/radio AM/FM/SW/charger/torch/s" - will get
:)Sound thinking Batman(Decim):).....many thanks

Hi ya margaretr :)

Don't know if its your own home or not but mayb a little false wall to make a hidey hole !! In your situation of unwanted guests hiding imo would b the best option. The axe, good for wood, but you don't really want to b confronting nutcases with it. :)But that is a choice only you can make if the need arises !!

As for the place looking uninhabited, that would b the ideal case to kick the doors in and have a mooch so don't go thinking along them lines.

Anyway you have age and experience on your side :D having lived through the fifties which for world peace was a very iffy time so Im told. Sure there are plenty of tricks in your memory banks that you know of.

Keeping warm, well mayb one of them old big drums you used to see on the picket lines kept in your back garden just in case the need arises.

Any way if the poo does hit the fan and there is a complete meltdown, don't worry about the law there wont b any. I'm sure you will do what is necessary to survive :)

[tom bombadil]

Thanks for more ideas.
I don't have a balcony and no garden really - just communal lawns back and front which are mown by my landlord, so planting now will be difficult, I will only be able to use containers on windowsills.

I already have a wheeled shopping trolley which can accommodate my water container (the type seen in high streets in use by the elderly:D)

My son lives a twenty minute walk away, and that is mainly across fields with only a hundred yards of B road where I would be at risk. He has no land for planting either.
There is a large area of alottments right next to me. I already buy eggs there. I hope that it is not subjected to food raiders from the town. I contemplate I may need to dig up the landlord's lawn if need be, or trade some seeds for ready grown until I get my own garden going

I have ordered a solar/windup/radio/torch combo.
I have looked at outdoor wear and those shiny survival blankets- have earmarked some for further scrutiny/watching on ebay.
I don't think a sleeping bag is a good idea - I will sleep in thermal clothing - better to facilitate a 'flight/escape' if ever needed.

I have 3 neighbours - I am friendly with all 3 - all men - but none can be relied on - one is mentally backward and the other two are in poor health.
I will wait for your suggestions on clothing before I purchase.

Thanks for helping this old biddy plan survival :D

I am not ignoring the other posts as they are good info.

But it would be better if we could see your place, or better in this world, a place like yours. Can you post a look-a-like found on the web.

Who is the landlord? Council, private?
Can you get together with your neibours if just to ask if you can put some raised borders (sleeper style, though definately not sleepers) in for some 'seasonal' planting? (dont say food). Or large pots or both. Have you read the squre foot gardener? You dont need a lot of space at all. http://www.amazon.co.uk/All-New-Square-Foot-Gardening/dp/1591862027/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1243548097&sr=8-1 And his stuff on the you tube site http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggzGF0TBVsg

Get to work on those window boxes. A quick and cheap way is to use pallet wood. Use an electric plainer for good looks, but you could just season them after you build them to last a long time. For strength use metal strips at the corners. Screw them to the window frame (yes, even plastic frames, just use the right screws) and not the sill itself. It will only take a few small screws each planter.

Untill you have permision, you should get some plastic plant pots (the big round or square ones that you find all around the same dwelling type as your own) anyway, as it wont be nicked and even when they are growing a spud plant looks like a weed. Add a few flowers too as they can stop pests.

Allotments will be the first place that folk would go to. Dont grow there after the shtf or if things get tight in the economy, We will know when that is as it will be worse than it now by a large margin.

I agree that you should use a sleeping bag. You will have time to arm yourselves. Know that you cant keep out a sustained attacker, but without something to retaliate with you will have them keep coming. Be prepaied to kill. Sorry to say that you might have to do it or others will be back. A good weapon is a bill hook. I was using one today to chop down some branches (an axe is better for this but I love it to bits :D), also it is a good coppiser (it true role of course). Aim for the foot, then the head. Sorry, I will have to say fuck-em. If they were good people, they would ask first and then leave for good. If they come back in the dead of night however......

Lots of pants and socks and some cold water use soap (like in a camping store) Other stuff can be worn a lot longer with the exeption of t-shirts maybe. The rest is personal taste. You are not camping in the alps so your cloths can be functional for gardening and of heavier weave and thus cheaper.


Nelly.

[tom bombadil]

I forgot the heating problem.

I need to know what your place is like inside. You cant cook at all if you dont have a chiminey. You will not cook indoors without an outlet larger than a flue for a gas heater. You will need bigger.

But it is not the end of the world (ha ha) if you dont, but I still need to know the layout.


Nelly.

[margaretr]

I forgot the heating problem.

I need to know what your place is like inside. You cant cook at all if you dont have a chiminey. You will not cook indoors without an outlet larger than a flue for a gas heater. You will need bigger.

But it is not the end of the world (ha ha) if you dont, but I still need to know the layout.


Nelly.
It is a 1st floor flat in a block of 4, having only two stories, with a communal stairwell - the back and front exterior stairwell doors are lockable but have glass panels and are flimsy. I have only one exit door - into that stairwell- it is solid wood.

There are no chimneys or any flu outlets, so no facilities for an indoor open fire.
I have a large lounge, tiny kitchen, a bathroom, one bedroom and a narrow hallway. I do have a loft access hatch but it is too small for me at the moment (maybe accesssible after a few months of food shortages:))
I have only one window which opens wide enough to get out of, and I keep a tow rope near it at all times in case of fire.

The open lawns back and front are unfenced. When I moved here I brought a garden bench and table and they were stolen within one year.
Anything left outside is liable to be stolen. This property was originally council owned and is now owned by a housing association.

I am gradually making my son aware, and hope that I will be asked to join him - his home is better able to be secured, and he happens to have a shotgun and licence.

My only other worry at the moment is my eldest grandson who has just completed a geology degree and will be going to USA in 2 weeks time to work at a summer camp teaching rifle shooting (he is the Uni small bore rifle shooting champion)

I need a contingency plan for staying at my own home - I like 'all bases covered'

[tom bombadil]

I am gradually making my son aware, and hope that I will be asked to join him - his home is better able to be secured, and he happens to have a shotgun and licence.

My only other worry at the moment is my eldest grandson who has just completed a geology degree and will be going to USA in 2 weeks time to work at a summer camp teaching rifle shooting (he is the Uni small bore rifle shooting champion)

I need a contingency plan for staying at my own home - I like 'all bases covered'

A-ha!. First things first. You wont need to convert them when tshtf cos you will all natraly come together (if you can) and between you will choose the best dwelling.

For your hallway and front door you need to get a few sturdy (and varnished, why not) planks of wood and two lengths of 3x3. With these you prop the planks up against the door at both sides verticly. You use the 3x3 to wedge the two planks to the door via the frame of another door along the hallway if you have it or by getting a block of 2x4x2 and screwing it to the floor in two places along the hall by the front door. These are used as the wedge point. The idea is that the planks cover the door and the frame. If this is not clear then post me :)
You will now be able to keep out a sustaind attack long enough to get out of bed, streatch, have a cup of tea and get the rest of the boiling water to pour over the baddie.

As for cooking. You will have a vent in the kitchen. You will. If not, then open the window a bit when using the next item. Look here and look for his small alcohol cooker.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww1kcNKq1kA
This will enable you to cook.

As for heating your home, then you might have to opt for a water storage heater that is heated by the rays of the sun by day and slowly releases over the evening. You can see how to make one using the same folk that made that video... http://au.truveo.com/energy-for-earth-build-a-energy-efficient-home/id/659892726

Also. Dont you have a gas or electric fire on the hearth wall?


Nelly. Getting there.

[margaretr]

The info about the cooking and heating is very useful. I recall camping trips in the 1940s when dad used a primus stove - glad to see that new designs are available that look safer - I will look on ebay.

The door barracade I dont think will work. The landing outside my front door is concrete, and my landlord wouldn't like me drilling into it. If I made several trips to the stream in one day and filled my bath, then I would be self sufficient for a few days and could block the back of the door with a heavy sideboard I have.

The solar panel idea is sound, but we don't get enough sun where I live, especially during winter short days.
On one of those links you gave me it showed a steel heater fuelled by alcohol - I will look for detail about those.

I am a little wary of using flammable liquids, but 'needs must when the devil drives'
Thanks gentlemen - you have done me proud:D

[asha loka]

You can cook on tea lights (http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=36063), if you're not in a hurry - which I'm guessing you wouldn't be, if you've barricaded the front door.

Retail packs of tea lights are cheap, and don't take up a lot of space. They're harder to knock over than alcohol or gas stoves. And you can buy them wholesale for not much money at all.

For food, cheap muesli is a good dense source of protein, salt and carbs. It's not as interesting as other foods, and I'd guess after a couple of weeks you'd start to hate it. But it will keep you alive longer than more elaborate but less nutritious canned foods would.

[margaretr]

You can cook on tea lights (http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=36063), if you're not in a hurry - which I'm guessing you wouldn't be, if you've barricaded the front door.

Retail packs of tea lights are cheap, and don't take up a lot of space. They're harder to knock over than alcohol or gas stoves. And you can buy them wholesale for not much money at all.

For food, cheap muesli is a good dense source of protein, salt and carbs. It's not as interesting as other foods, and I'd guess after a couple of weeks you'd start to hate it. But it will keep you alive longer than more elaborate but less nutritious canned foods would.
I have 2 large plastic crates full of food stored and another crate ready to be filled by a £100 delivery on Sunday. I can afford to stock at the rate of £100 per month. I suppose I will be low on carbs but as I will be hibernating my energy needs will be lesser than normal.
I have concentrated on a protein supply of cooked meats and fish which I can eat cold. My 4yr supply of food supplements will provide vitamins which I would otherwise have got from fruit and veg, but I do have an additional smaller stock of dried veg, dried milk, pasta and pulses, so I will have a little variety.

I have been careful to avoid 'reconstituted meat', monosodium glutamate and other nasty additives.

Thanks for the tealight tip.

[tom bombadil]

The idea was to barracade your door.


Also, with the heater, even in the winter, this thing will work even with a little sun.

Glad to help.


Nelly :)

[shansuke]

personaly i think the older folks on here and folk who live alone and may be worried about the shtf should all get in touch with each other now and arrainge meet up points where they could get in touch or leave messeges or whatever.

their could be official icke forum members meeting points all over the uk,all we would have to do is make a section on this forum where folk post their nearest prefered meeting point which could then be printed of every now and then so as that you always have a fresh copy if/when the internet or electricity supply goes down.

this would also be helpfull to the ones that have to flee their homes.

one things for sure tho,like minded folk would be a lot better and safer off if they live and travel in numbers.

[jonas parker]

personaly i think the older folks on here and folk who live alone and may be worried about the shtf should all get in touch with each other now and arrainge meet up points where they could get in touch or leave messeges or whatever.

their could be official icke forum members meeting points all over the uk,all we would have to do is make a section on this forum where folk post their nearest prefered meeting point which could then be printed of every now and then so as that you always have a fresh copy if/when the internet or electricity supply goes down.

this would also be helpfull to the ones that have to flee their homes.

one things for sure tho,like minded folk would be a lot better and safer off if they live and travel in numbers.

Excellent post!!! I thinks it's more "when" than "if" on the electric grid. Best bet is get your group together now! When TSHTF, the thugs will be well organized, but they will avoid well organized neighborhoods and look for easier prey...

[unusual_suspect]

Excellent post!!! I thinks it's more "when" than "if" on the electric grid. Best bet is get your group together now! When TSHTF, the thugs will be well organized, but they will avoid well organized neighborhoods and look for easier prey...

Can I please ask you opinion Jonas? I live in a rural area where people know each other anyway and traditionally life has been quite tough here, it is not a particularly affluent area and I have already started to trade vegetable plants with one neighbour. I live in a hamlet so it is just a row of houses along a road.

What to you think life will be like in places like this when tshtf?

[margaretr]

What to you think life will be like in places like this when tshtf?

Plan to be invaded by tent city on your doorstep, and your veg plot harvested without your consent.

[unusual_suspect]

Plan to be invaded by tent city on your doorstep, and your veg plot harvested without your consent.

Shit, I don't really know what to do about that. I moved to the country in March as I was worried about TSHTF, I figured we would be safer away from Towns and cities.

A majority of people locally seem to grow their own veg in their gardens and many have their own chickens.

Do you think we will be invaded by city folk :(

[margaretr]

Shit, I don't really know what to do about that. I moved to the country in March as I was worried about TSHTF, I figured we would be safer away from Towns and cities.

A majority of people locally seem to grow their own veg in their gardens and many have their own chickens.

Do you think we will be invaded by city folk :(

When the cities have no power supply, that means no water and food distribution, so people will migrate to where they think there might be some.

[unusual_suspect]

When the cities have no power supply, that means no water and food distribution, so people will migrate to where they think there might be some.

Hmm, not sure what to do now, any suggestions?

[margaretr]

Hmm, not sure what to do now, any suggestions?
Stockpile tinned and dried food
Decide which stream will be near enough to get water from when you have to access it on foot - obtain water purification drops and a water carrier.
Devise a defence plan to protect yourself eg axe, billhook, shotgun, barracade.
I live on the edge of a small town and have already begun planning- my earlier posts in this thread show how much

[unusual_suspect]

Stockpile tinned and dried food
Decide which stream will be near enough to get water from when you have to access it on foot - obtain water purification drops and a water carrier.
Devise a defence plan to protect yourself eg axe, billhook, shotgun, barracade.
I live on the edge of a small town and have already begun planning- my earlier posts in this thread show how much

It is all going pretty well, I just hadn't thought much about the defence side of things. Shotguns are a little difficult to come by in the UK, although I would like to be able to hunt animals f need be. Anyone got any advice on this?

Thanks margaretr, I will read back through this thread again for info.

[tom bombadil]

It is all going pretty well, I just hadn't thought much about the defence side of things. Shotguns are a little difficult to come by in the UK, although I would like to be able to hunt animals f need be. Anyone got any advice on this?

Thanks margaretr, I will read back through this thread again for info.

Dont give-up on the shotgun front. Join a club for info, Buy a gun, store it at home. You are quite legaly able to do that. Start by buying a gun magazine.

The requirements are that you need too store the gun away from the shot.
Nelly.

[margaretr]

Dont give-up on the shotgun front. Join a club for info, Buy a gun, store it at home. You are quite legaly able to do that. Start by buying a gun magazine.

The requirements are that you need too store the gun away from the shot.
Nelly.

It isn't quite that easy in UK. You have to apply to the police for a licence and there are strict rules on how you store it in your home.
My son happens to have a shotgun which he inherited from his dad. He had to go through the licence procedures then - that was 25 years ago before gun crime became rife. I think it will be harder to get a licence now.

[waylander]

It isn't quite that easy in UK. You have to apply to the police for a licence and there are strict rules on how you store it in your home.
My son happens to have a shotgun which he inherited from his dad. He had to go through the licence procedures then - that was 25 years ago before gun crime became rife. I think it will be harder to get a licence now.

It's a piece of piss. It's no harder to get a shotgun license than it is to get a driving license.

Its no harder now that 25 years ago. Fact.

Waylander:cool:

[margaretr]

It's a piece of piss. It's no harder to get a shotgun license than it is to get a driving license.

Its no harder now that 25 years ago. Fact.

Waylander:cool:

My 2nd husband was refused a licence application in 1979 and no reason was given, and we lived in a very rural location at the time.

[tom bombadil]

Try this

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=59342

Read though. Apply.


Nelly :)

[waylander]

My 2nd husband was refused a licence application in 1979 and no reason was given, and we lived in a very rural location at the time.

They will only refuse a shotgun certificate if for any reason the applicant is considered unsuitable.

Intemerant habits
History of Depression
Criminal record.

By law they have to state why the application is refused, as you have a 21 day peiod in which to appeal.

Waylander:cool:

[margaretr]

They will only refuse a shotgun certificate if for any reason the applicant is considered unsuitable.

Intemerant habits
History of Depression
Criminal record.

By law they have to state why the application is refused, as you have a 21 day peiod in which to appeal.

Waylander:cool:

That makes sense - he(ex) was a lying toadie :)

[waylander]

That makes sense - he(ex) was a lying toadie :)

LOL:)

Waylander:cool:

[lizzy]

Hi All :)

the survival threads are great....these are practical;)

I have ahouse on the market butif it does'nt sell in the next few months I will be doing it here rather than on acerage, we'll see. I have been reading the threads and watching the vids, just not posting....Thanks for vids Nelly :)

I am the Pacific NW , a mid -sized town and the UN's restrictive codes are already happening...

[entrangermercenary]

They will only refuse a shotgun certificate if for any reason the applicant is considered unsuitable.

Intemerant habits
History of Depression
Criminal record.

By law they have to state why the application is refused, as you have a 21 day peiod in which to appeal.

Waylander:cool:

Or goverment intervention :)

[unusual_suspect]

They will only refuse a shotgun certificate if for any reason the applicant is considered unsuitable.

Intemerant habits
History of Depression
Criminal record.

By law they have to state why the application is refused, as you have a 21 day peiod in which to appeal.

Waylander:cool:

I don't think they'll give me one, I used to be a very naughty girl. Maybe I could get my partner to get one instead.

[waylander]

Or goverment intervention :)

In which case I would recommend a good Crossbow.

As used a Delta Farce & Team America.

Waylander:cool:

[entrangermercenary]

In which case I would recommend a good Crossbow.

As used a Delta Farce & Team America.

Waylander:cool:

Delta Farce !!?? Think you will find they have come on a long way since the Iranain hostage fuck up. Spose you would just stroll into that unit tho with ur crossbow ;).

Team America now ur talking:D

[entrangermercenary]

I don't think they'll give me one, I used to be a very naughty girl. Maybe I could get my partner to get one instead.

OHHH !! how naughty :D

[waylander]

I don't think they'll give me one, I used to be a very naughty girl.

I likes naughty girls ;):)

Waylander:cool:

[entrangermercenary]

I likes naughty girls ;):)

Waylander:cool:

And boys apparently :p

[margaretr]

I found excellent advice here - see my earlier posts.
I have added binoculars and a solar light to my list of essentials.

I ask again now about camping stoves.
I will likely be using one in my kitchen and am a little nervous about using flammable liquids indoors.
I have found a stove which uses gel fuel and looks safer.
http://www.readytoleave.com/Eating-and-Drinking/Camping-Stoves/Greenheat-Base-Camp-Cooker/details

Please will you outdoor enthusiasts please give your opinion on this type of stove.

[jonas parker]

Can I please ask you opinion Jonas? I live in a rural area where people know each other anyway and traditionally life has been quite tough here, it is not a particularly affluent area and I have already started to trade vegetable plants with one neighbour. I live in a hamlet so it is just a row of houses along a road.

What to you think life will be like in places like this when tshtf?

Your life will be a whole lot better than in London, New York, or Dallas! If all your neighbors are on the same page, when TSHTF, you could have a community garden, rotating watches to guard the area from intruders, group child care, etc. Eight or ten families don't need eight or ten roto-tillers, just one!

Start making a list of the residents and their skills. For example, the old man four-doors down may be a former Army medic who could teach you all first aid. The lady on the end might be a retired school teacher or nurse. I'm sure you get the idea.

Look into linking the houses "off grid" with some army surplus field telephones and wire or CB radios with batteries. Find out who has computers and make CD data disks on food storage and first aid to share. Look back to WWII when every hamlet had a 24/7 fire watch. Also look into how you could cut the road above and below your hamlet, thus cutting off easy access by thugs on motorcycles in case of an emergency.

Maybe now is a good time for a "hamlet picnic". You supply hot dogs and burgers for the grill (or the UK equivalent thereof) and ask everyone to come and bring a dish to pass. Coordinate your preparations. There is no need for every family to have a complete set of surgical instruments or a pressure canner when one or two of these could serve the whole neighborhood.

Basically, get cohesion in the neighborhood! Don't wait for "George" two doors down to do this, "George" may be waiting for you to start first.

[unusual_suspect]

Your life will be a whole lot better than in London, New York, or Dallas! If all your neighbors are on the same page, when TSHTF, you could have a community garden, rotating watches to guard the area from intruders, group child care, etc. Eight or ten families don't need eight or ten roto-tillers, just one!

Start making a list of the residents and their skills. For example, the old man four-doors down may be a former Army medic who could teach you all first aid. The lady on the end might be a retired school teacher or nurse. I'm sure you get the idea.

Look into linking the houses "off grid" with some army surplus field telephones and wire or CB radios with batteries. Find out who has computers and make CD data disks on food storage and first aid to share. Look back to WWII when every hamlet had a 24/7 fire watch. Also look into how you could cut the road above and below your hamlet, thus cutting off easy access by thugs on motorcycles in case of an emergency.

Maybe now is a good time for a "hamlet picnic". You supply hot dogs and burgers for the grill (or the UK equivalent thereof) and ask everyone to come and bring a dish to pass. Coordinate your preparations. There is no need for every family to have a complete set of surgical instruments or a pressure canner when one or two of these could serve the whole neighborhood.

Basically, get cohesion in the neighborhood! Don't wait for "George" two doors down to do this, "George" may be waiting for you to start first.

Thanks Jonas, good advice there. I'll let you know how it goes. only one thing, I know my parents think I am strange for being worried about tshtf and making preparations, I'm not really sure how to broach the subject with people, but I supose if they think I'm odd not to worry.

[shansuke]

I found excellent advice here - see my earlier posts.
I have added binoculars and a solar light to my list of essentials.

I ask again now about camping stoves.
I will likely be using one in my kitchen and am a little nervous about using flammable liquids indoors.
I have found a stove which uses gel fuel and looks safer.
http://www.readytoleave.com/Eating-and-Drinking/Camping-Stoves/Greenheat-Base-Camp-Cooker/details

Please will you outdoor enthusiasts please give your opinion on this type of stove.

camping stoves are good but realy how long are you gonna get use of them for,would be good for when you cant get a fire going.i would get a stove thet works off of one of the big callor gas bottles,get as many of those big callor gas botttles as you can,you could maybe get a small stove to for use if you have to go somwhere,or how about those ones they put in army rations that run on firelighters,they would also be good for the road if need be.

if i was you i would have a look in to army rations,you may come up with a few ideas their that you havent already thought of.

also all solar and wind up products are good,if i where you i would look in to how to make your own solar and wind up powered things,thers lots of vids on youtube about it,it seems quite easy,they even show you how to store your solar energy for use as and when you need it.

as well as seeds have you thought about differant types of mushroom spores,not only are mushrooms easy to grow(when you know how)but you can turn one spore print in to shitloads of mushrooms,which you can take more prints and turn this in to more again and so on,you would be surprised what things you can use as a substrate to grow mushrooms,some will grow from anything realy,pluss your spent substrates is the perfect fertilizer for your plants,its win win.the tempreture in your house thruout the year would determin what kind you grow,pluss you could also do some outdoor grows to.

if i think of anything more i will let you know.

[jonas parker]

Thanks Jonas, good advice there. I'll let you know how it goes. only one thing, I know my parents think I am strange for being worried about tshtf and making preparations, I'm not really sure how to broach the subject with people, but I supose if they think I'm odd not to worry.

I'm not really sure how you convert your parents. I'm 65 myself, so I'm probably older than they are. What you might do is print out an article on the deterioration of the world financial situation every other day or so and hand it to your father or mother and ask their opinion. You might also ask them "OK. If X happens, what do we do?"

I'm also sure that your grandparents lived through the "Great Depression". Ask your parents what grandma and grandpa did while they were growing up in that time. I'm sure that your parents have heard the family stories and should be glad to pass them on to you. In fact, your neighbors probably have similar stories that they'd be glad to share with you if you asked them.

Finally, if you convert your mother to the cause, your father will come around in short order. Meanwhile, they are blessed to have a child who is aware of things and looks out for the family.

[unusual_suspect]

I'm not really sure how you convert your parents. I'm 65 myself, so I'm probably older than they are. What you might do is print out an article on the deterioration of the world financial situation every other day or so and hand it to your father or mother and ask their opinion. You might also ask them "OK. If X happens, what do we do?"

I'm also sure that your grandparents lived through the "Great Depression". Ask your parents what grandma and grandpa did while they were growing up in that time. I'm sure that your parents have heard the family stories and should be glad to pass them on to you. In fact, your neighbors probably have similar stories that they'd be glad to share with you if you asked them.

Finally, if you convert your mother to the cause, your father will come around in short order. Meanwhile, they are blessed to have a child who is aware of things and looks out for the family.

Sound advice, but my parents really do think I am being paranoid and just totally switch off when I try to talk to them about all this, I am mulling over how best I can persuade them. However, they have paid off the mortgage on their house and are looking for a property in the middle of nowhere in France of all places, they are planning to get somewhere with land and get animals and my Dad is getting a shotgun. So I hope it all goes well for them, and they hoard food anyway, I suppose it is growing up in post war Britain :)

I have resolved to organise a get together for my neighbours, but I have just had an operation and I am still recovering, so this will have to be in a couple of weeks.

Thanks for posting your advice, as it has really got me thinking, especially about blocking road access if need be, you are full of unexpected gems Jonas :)

[sannox]

shit hits the fan and farm animals become fair game thus ruling out the food problem and with places like bnq around building a decent shelter eventualy wouldnt be a problem either .
short term survival techniques would suffice until such times as you could take full advantage of everything .

[unusual_suspect]

Do you think that people have any inbuilt survival instinct anymore or has it been totally bred out of us?

[entrangermercenary]

Do you think that people have any inbuilt survival instinct anymore or has it been totally bred out of us?

Yes people have an inbuilt survival instinct. People will do there best to survive :)

[entrangermercenary]

shit hits the fan and farm animals become fair game thus ruling out the food problem and with places like bnq around building a decent shelter eventualy wouldnt be a problem either .
short term survival techniques would suffice until such times as you could take full advantage of everything .


Correct farm animals will become fair game.Sluuurp.

But what u must remember is that farmers own weapons, they know there land and irrigation ditches. Know what track leads where. Some farmers even have farm labourers working for them who will also be armed with the dreaded shotgun and hunting rifle. They are also a close nit community in any area, so there you already have a militia. They have the means to block the roads with piles of shit/earth from there tractors and jcbs. or even block them with machinery ie combines etc.

So there is another dilemma for you to think about?? :)

Bnq good for nail guns and other such implements. Next time you are in there have a look around at what they have got. REMEMBER THE

http://tbn3.google.com/images?q=tbn:dOH_EqDpAVQrTM:http://www.collider.com/uploads/imageGallery/A_Team/the_a-team_logo.jpg

[rydeon]

Correct farm animals will become fair game.Sluuurp.

But what u must remember is that farmers own weapons, they know there land and irrigation ditches. Know what track leads where. Some farmers even have farm labourers working for them who will also be armed with the dreaded shotgun and hunting rifle. They are also a close nit community in any area, so there you already have a militia. They have the means to block the roads with piles of shit/earth from there tractors and jcbs. or even block them with machinery ie combines etc.

So there is another dilemma for you to think about?? :)


You are spot on the ball with this one Mr Estrange.

Several survivalists I know are already in the network for teaming up with such folk for any unforseen times in the future.

[hunter77]

Correct farm animals will become fair game.Sluuurp.

But what u must remember is that farmers own weapons, they know there land and irrigation ditches. Know what track leads where. Some farmers even have farm labourers working for them who will also be armed with the dreaded shotgun and hunting rifle. They are also a close nit community in any area, so there you already have a militia. They have the means to block the roads with piles of shit/earth from there tractors and jcbs. or even block them with machinery ie combines etc.

So there is another dilemma for you to think about?? :)

Bnq good for nail guns and other such implements. Next time you are in there have a look around at what they have got. REMEMBER THE

http://tbn3.google.com/images?q=tbn:dOH_EqDpAVQrTM:http://www.collider.com/uploads/imageGallery/A_Team/the_a-team_logo.jpg

your right on this one mate,everyone in the country own a shotgun, it like having a tv. and as for ditches i ended up waist deep in a bog when i was shooting the other week and i knew the place well, my mate who owns the farm had to pull me out minus me wellies.:(

[jonas parker]

Sound advice, but my parents really do think I am being paranoid and just totally switch off when I try to talk to them about all this, I am mulling over how best I can persuade them. However, they have paid off the mortgage on their house and are looking for a property in the middle of nowhere in France of all places, they are planning to get somewhere with land and get animals and my Dad is getting a shotgun. So I hope it all goes well for them, and they hoard food anyway, I suppose it is growing up in post war Britain :)

I have resolved to organise a get together for my neighbours, but I have just had an operation and I am still recovering, so this will have to be in a couple of weeks.

Thanks for posting your advice, as it has really got me thinking, especially about blocking road access if need be, you are full of unexpected gems Jonas :)

You know, lots of times parents DO listen to their children, but for some reason (pride? loss of "face"?) refuse to acknowledge it. From what you say, despite what they have been telling you, they've been listening, and most importantly, taking actions. While rural France wouldn't be my first choice (or even my fiftieth choice), it's still going to be one whole helluva lot better than downtown Dallas or downtown London.

The only problem I see with France is getting there. If you and your family don't "bug out" early enough you might be stuck, for better or worse, right where you are. It looks like you're going to have to plan for two possibilities:
1. The family will get to France. But will the locals there resent a family of British "haves" in a country of native "have nots"?
2. The family will not get to France, which means that any preps you have stashed there in France are lost to you and you have to survive "in place".

Your job is to prepare adequately for both scenarios, not an easy task in the best of times, and not easy at all now. You can use your recuperation time to research, download, and burn back-up data disks, so don't wast time counting your sutures... get busy today!

I've sent you a PM with my address, phone number, and email address. Keep in touch! JP

[robindean]

I think for reasons listed in the OP it would be wise to gain some living-with-nature type skills, alot of which i'm trying to attain myself.

RD

[sannox]

Correct farm animals will become fair game.Sluuurp.

But what u must remember is that farmers own weapons, they know there land and irrigation ditches. Know what track leads where. Some farmers even have farm labourers working for them who will also be armed with the dreaded shotgun and hunting rifle. They are also a close nit community in any area, so there you already have a militia. They have the means to block the roads with piles of shit/earth from there tractors and jcbs. or even block them with machinery ie combines etc.

So there is another dilemma for you to think about?? :)

Bnq good for nail guns and other such implements. Next time you are in there have a look around at what they have got. REMEMBER THE

http://tbn3.google.com/images?q=tbn:dOH_EqDpAVQrTM:http://www.collider.com/uploads/imageGallery/A_Team/the_a-team_logo.jpg

:D

farmer man needs to watch every animal i only need to take a couple ;)

[entrangermercenary]

:D

farmer man needs to watch every animal i only need to take a couple ;)


Ive only a few myself, a small flock( Yes ive spelt flock correctly Beldazar no c in it :p) I am sure you are welcome to try. If u can get past my guard dogs ie my 4 starving boys you will be most welcome :D And If you can get a couple of sheep/cows and round them up or drag them out of a field dead. I would surely pay to c this :eek: :cool:

[rydeon]

:D

farmer man needs to watch every animal i only need to take a couple ;)

Indeed, but be aware he'll probably have more than a few watchful eyes keeping tabs on any intruders. Make a wrong move and it might be case of the Estrangers lion having a xbow bolt sticking its arse ;)

[entrangermercenary]

Indeed, but be aware he'll probably have more than a few watchful eyes keeping tabs on any intruders. Make a wrong move and it might be case of the Estrangers lion having a xbow bolt sticking its arse ;)

Nothing to say about plastic explosives I c :D Trouble is with a xbow you would have to get v close . Now obviously you aint used to that . This is more your stylem , the old Ballista :D

http://tbn2.google.com/images?q=tbn:lWgKBSCYHOaiEM:http://roberts-model-ships-and-boats.com/jpg/Ballista.jpg

[rydeon]

Nothing to say about plastic explosives I c :D Trouble is with a xbow you would have to get v close . Now obviously you aint used to that . This is more your stylem , the old Ballista :D

http://tbn2.google.com/images?q=tbn:lWgKBSCYHOaiEM:http://roberts-model-ships-and-boats.com/jpg/Ballista.jpg

LMAO!

I guess you must be in some niave world of a pistol crossbow and not one that sends a bolt through things at 80 - 100 metres :) Is that too close for you ;)

Live and learn, keep your tail clear now! :D

[entrangermercenary]

LMAO!

I guess you must be in some niave world of a pistol crossbow and not one that sends a bolt through things at 80 - 100 metres :) Is that too close for you ;)

Live and learn, keep your tail clear now! :D


So seeing as obviously you are an expert what about these quotes then from the below site

http://www.geocities.com/gunversation/bowsversuscrossbows/bowsversuscrossbows.htm#1)%20Crossbows%20are%20too %20powerful%20and%20therefore%20an%20unfair%20adva ntage%20when%20hunting.

vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv vvvvvvvvvvvvvvv



1.Two other serious considerations to be taken into account is that the crossbow makes more noise when fired and follow up shots are slower. But, the crossbow can be bench-rested on any handy tree or blind while the shooter takes as long as he needs to make the shot.

2. Crossbows have far greater range than a bow. If we allow them to be used during archery season, the game would be harvested at dangerous levels.

There was a very brief period of time that I actually began to believe this (for lack of my own research.)

3.As it turned out I was shooting beside a sponsored shooter who made his living with a bow. He found my Barnett RC-150 crossbow interesting and even commented that they had carried an almost identical crossbow at Air America back in the 60's. It was at that point that he explained to me in a most grandfatherly way that even the best crossbow on the market would shoot accurately out to about 80 yards (in the hands of a pro) but that for hunting purposes my maximum effective range was more like 45 yards. What surprised me was that he admitted that despite his skill with the bow, he himself would rarely take a shot beyond the 45 yard mark because too much energy was bled off the arrow past that point.

And Mr Ryedon u can shoot that accurately ie 80-100m =90-110yds. That is double and nearly triple what is being said !! Are you a

http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:hvkQrUiEz1cQhM:http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n172/hunterpig/browninja06.jpg


4.For those of you who watched The Wild Geese and came away believing that a 200 yard head-shot (in the dark, no less) was within the capabilities of your average, off-the-shelf crossbow. However, a more accurate depiction of the crossbow in a wartime application can be seen in the movie Green Berets. There you will see sentries being dispatched at 10 to 15 yards. The only archery devices that get 200 yards are pneumatically powered. Don't believe that Hollywood BS

AND more !!
vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv vvvvvvvvvvvvvvv

http://www.crossbow.com/frequentlyaskedquestions : From the crossbow manufacturers themselves !!

5.Q. What is the best way to quiet my crossbow?
A. The best way to quiet your crossbow is to reduce vibration on all dynamic components. The new line of SoundStoppers™ from Horton have proven to be very effective. Using Horton's SoundStopper™ Noise Killer kit will greatly quiet any crossbow.

6.Q. What is the maximum effective range of a crossbow?
A. The maximum effective range of a crossbow in a hunting situation is 40 yards.



U still maintaining as well that plastic explosives can be detonated by a bullet?? :D

[rydeon]

So seeing as obviously you are an expert what about these quotes then from the below site

http://www.geocities.com/gunversation/bowsversuscrossbows/bowsversuscrossbows.htm#1)%20Crossbows%20are%20too %20powerful%20and%20therefore%20an%20unfair%20adva ntage%20when%20hunting.

vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv vvvvvvvvvvvvvvv



1.Two other serious considerations to be taken into account is that the crossbow makes more noise when fired and follow up shots are slower. But, the crossbow can be bench-rested on any handy tree or blind while the shooter takes as long as he needs to make the shot.

2. Crossbows have far greater range than a bow. If we allow them to be used during archery season, the game would be harvested at dangerous levels.

There was a very brief period of time that I actually began to believe this (for lack of my own research.)

3.As it turned out I was shooting beside a sponsored shooter who made his living with a bow. He found my Barnett RC-150 crossbow interesting and even commented that they had carried an almost identical crossbow at Air America back in the 60's. It was at that point that he explained to me in a most grandfatherly way that even the best crossbow on the market would shoot accurately out to about 80 yards (in the hands of a pro) but that for hunting purposes my maximum effective range was more like 45 yards. What surprised me was that he admitted that despite his skill with the bow, he himself would rarely take a shot beyond the 45 yard mark because too much energy was bled off the arrow past that point.

And Mr Ryedon u can shoot that accurately ie 80-100m =90-110yds. That is double and nearly triple what is being said !! Are you a

http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:hvkQrUiEz1cQhM:http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n172/hunterpig/browninja06.jpg


4.For those of you who watched The Wild Geese and came away believing that a 200 yard head-shot (in the dark, no less) was within the capabilities of your average, off-the-shelf crossbow. However, a more accurate depiction of the crossbow in a wartime application can be seen in the movie Green Berets. There you will see sentries being dispatched at 10 to 15 yards. The only archery devices that get 200 yards are pneumatically powered. Don't believe that Hollywood BS

AND more !!
vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv vvvvvvvvvvvvvvv

http://www.crossbow.com/frequentlyaskedquestions : From the crossbow manufacturers themselves !!

5.Q. What is the best way to quiet my crossbow?
A. The best way to quiet your crossbow is to reduce vibration on all dynamic components. The new line of SoundStoppers™ from Horton have proven to be very effective. Using Horton's SoundStopper™ Noise Killer kit will greatly quiet any crossbow.

6.Q. What is the maximum effective range of a crossbow?
A. The maximum effective range of a crossbow in a hunting situation is 40 yards.



U still maintaining as well that plastic explosives can be detonated by a bullet?? :D

I'm obviously speaking to a bow fanboy who fancies himself as:

http://www.orionfoundation.org/uploaded_images/of_bow_post_rambo-733806.jpg

Are you aware how much power is even in a crossbow.
Here's one of examples:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJokpxvMmvA

So yeah, I think 80 to 100 metres is doable. :D

This is 180 lbs to 200 lbs+ draw strength.

I'm sure you'll now counter this with some fanboy palaver. But no worry you're just another biased fool on his way to the blocked users list :)

[entrangermercenary]

I'm obviously speaking to a bow fanboy who fancies himself as:

http://www.orionfoundation.org/uploaded_images/of_bow_post_rambo-733806.jpg

Are you aware how much power is even in a crossbow.
Here's one of examples:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJokpxvMmvA

So yeah, I think 80 to 100 metres is doable. :D

This is 180 lbs to 200 lbs+ draw strength.

I'm sure you'll now counter this with some fanboy palaver. But no worry you're just another biased fool on his way to the blocked users list :)


Oh please dont block me mr Ryedon im having so much fun with you :D

Well 1st things 1st shooting a 40 yr old plus elephant well thats fucking clever aint it??

Here is some fanboy palave for you if u insist!!

The debate isnt about the power of a crossbow but we can do that if u like its about accuracy over distance and its killing ability against other dare I say it firearms. ARGGGH Better say weapons :p

Of course a xbow will go over a 100meters, as with most firearms the round will travel a distance but it has a accurate killing range!! Lets take the FAMAS for instance bullet of the 5.56mm round will travel well over a mile but the ACURATE killing range is about 3oom.

Now as examples go that was great did you actually watch it :D If xbows are that great a weapon why is every 1 but the shooter carrying elephant rifles for protection.??? I would of thought the whole team should b carrying them!!!!

After the elephant is shot does it drop to the floor instantly and die. No it runs off into the bush.Does he get a second shot off as well, lol no he doesnt. So now we have a wounded dangerous animal on the loose and they dont look 2 keen on going after it . Eventually the word comes back the poor beast has died. A suspect death as well imo as there isnt much blood around, personal I think they finished it off with a rifle, but even if they didnt, the point is it did not drop dead after the initial shot

Now we get to the best bit MR Ryedon :D . On the video YOU have given as an example at 1.21 - 1.25 mins on it the guide says PMSL nice shot FROM 15-18 YARDS Holy shit even Stevie wounder could have hit such a large beast from that distance !!

I have no truck with the Bow v crossbow issue, this isnt the issue:) The original question is below vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv
Crossbows are not a good weapon if you have other choices of firearms. Granted they are better than nothing. If you think you are going to fire one off and kill somebody instantly forget it !! If you think they are silent and there is no noise , there is noise. Then there is the pissing about reloading it while matey is closing on you frothing at the mouth screaming his head off because u just shot him with a crossbow. Dont think you will be shooting at 200ms either unless you are William tell Ive used them, they dont work as a reliable killing weapon with one bolt !!Ive Nicked this from another site below

Mr Ryedon the clue was in the original post, ill give it you again, maybe the penny will drop, but I doubt it :D
vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv vvvvvvvvvvvvvv
vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv vvvvvvvvvvvvvv

The French Foreign legion also have played around with crossbows. At least during the 1980's. There's a photo from that period of one legionnaire with green beret aiming a crossbow in the book on the Foreign legion by Canadian John Robert Young. The bowpiece of the weapon appears to be made of blackened steel.
Pic appears to have been taken at a "commando course" run in the Pyrenees.
As for the weapon itself, with what percentage of possibility can one produce a head shot at distances of 4 meters, 10 meters and 20 meters?
Can effects of dart/bolt be enhanced with poison?
One disadvantage with crossbows not mentioned so far is reload time.
If target consists of more than one person in close proximity of each other, I thus guess a silenced smg, carabine or pistol would work better?

While YOU are on a roll ANYTHING ELSE TO SAY ABOUT BULLETS DETONATING PLASTIC EXPOSIVES :D

[hunter77]

crossbows are an ok weapon in if you dont own a firearm. but are inferior to a shot gun or rifle imo. a rifle is good and accurate to a few hundred yards in the right hands( depending on the caliber). a shot gun is the perfect weapon for moving targets , because thats what its designed for even a pcp air rifle offers multi shots and is for more accurate for hunting small quarry.
so in my oppinion a crossbow has its place but i would rather be shot at by one of them than a berretta 303

[entrangermercenary]

Mr Ryedon get your ass back here bitch. I love the drivel u post keeps me entertained :p :p

[hunter77]

Mr Ryedon get your ass back here bitch. I love the drivel u post keeps me entertained :p :p

can you set off c4 with a cattapult:rolleyes::D

[clachan]

If you,re gonna get prepared then do it. I live in rural france, no probs with food or water here and im only 3hrs south of cherbourg.Much better chance here but still not 100% certain, any thing could happen and i dont have a bunker!! I am building a "strong room ". Good luck wherever you are., England is a death trap!

[raven200]

I have read nearly all the posts in this thread, normally something I don't do.

I have a few question for people here, and I hope you can answer them as honestly as you have answered others in this thread.

1. If and when this SHTF what do you think the goverments will do about it, in relation to government intervention on society?

2. Say that there is no government any longer or army to provide the resources how long do you people think this thing will last and also what will be the main cause?

3. Do you really believe a mayan calendar is correct and if so then what solid evidence do you have.

4. A lot of old people here above 60 who have already lived majority of there lives but they seem more concerned than younger people, do you actually think society will completely break down and small communities will have to converge?

Finally?

5. Advising people to kill each other and get weapons is that really a good idea? I mean building a sense of danger that does'nt exist is that correct. For all you know you maybe inciting murder to some people who don't have the capability of differentiating realistic threats?

Look forward to responses from all. :)

[izzy]

I'd get myself a good dog.

With it I could hunt.

Waylander:p

http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/8471/june2009538.th.jpg (http://img524.imageshack.us/my.php?image=june2009538.jpg)


you d like my dog she is a greyhound .. originally from ireland .. and she is always catching rabbits and bringing them too me .. it really upsets me

[margaretr]

1. If and when this SHTF what do you think the goverments will do about it, in relation to government intervention on society?
Anarchy will be the result - the law enforcers will realise that they need to ensure their own survival, so won't report for duty.
Power generation, water supplies, food distribution and media broadcasts will also fail for the same reason.
All workers will have the survival of themselves and their families foremost, so will not turn up to maintain the infrastructure which supports society.

2. Say that there is no government any longer or army to provide the resources how long do you people think this thing will last and also what will be the main cause?
It will be a 'dog eat dog' situation - many will die in fights over food supplies.
Neighbours who trust each other, defend their group, and share resources will stand a better chance of survival.
It will last as long as it takes until the local resources meet a match with what the reduced population needs.

3. Do you really believe a mayan calendar is correct and if so then what solid evidence do you have.
I believe it - I have watched the video lectures by Ian X Lungold and read the book by Carl Johan Calleman.
I have studied ancient history for many years, and am convinced that the Earth will renew itself in 2012.
BUT -The 'hitting the fan' situation will happen before that enddate as more people become aware of the fact that they have been manipulated, misled and lied to, and that the earth upheaval is imminent.

4. A lot of old people here above 60 who have already lived majority of there lives but they seem more concerned than younger people, do you actually think society will completely break down and small communities will have to converge?
People who are nearing the end of their lives (like myself), realise that they have been cheated for a lifetime, and resent the fact that their grandchildren have no future other than to be replacement slaves to the system. We know what it was to be part of a close knit local community and see that as a survival essential.
For the few survivors, society will revert to the old style clan system, dependant upon local resources.

5. Advising people to kill each other and get weapons is that really a good idea? I mean building a sense of danger that does'nt exist is that correct. For all you know you maybe inciting murder to some people who don't have the capability of differentiating realistic threats?
There will be many armed and seeking food. It is a matter of survival to arm yourself to defend what few supplies you have. That is what realistically happens when a society, which has been indoctrinated with selfishness, is short of resources.

[clachan]

Sound advice, but my parents really do think I am being paranoid and just totally switch off when I try to talk to them about all this, I am mulling over how best I can persuade them. However, they have paid off the mortgage on their house and are looking for a property in the middle of nowhere in France of all places, they are planning to get somewhere with land and get animals and my Dad is getting a shotgun. So I hope it all goes well for them, and they hoard food anyway, I suppose it is growing up in post war Britain :)

I have resolved to organise a get together for my neighbours, but I have just had an operation and I am still recovering, so this will have to be in a couple of weeks.

Thanks for posting your advice, as it has really got me thinking, especially about blocking road access if need be, you are full of unexpected gems Jonas :)

I, ve got a faemhouse in france with 5 acres of good land for sale.

[jonas parker]

I've got a farmhouse in France with 5 acres of good land for sale.

And exactly how will France be safer? And how will someone get to France from the UK after the collapse of social order?

Your best chance IMHO is to either be where you want to be when everything collapses (timing IS everything), or have a 30' or larger sloop rigged, stocked, and ready to go.

My family and our neighbors are set where we are, and I really believe the people with like-minded neighbors will survive, both in Texas and the UK! God help the folks in the big cities...

[hunter77]

http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/8471/june2009538.th.jpg (http://img524.imageshack.us/my.php?image=june2009538.jpg)


you d like my dog she is a greyhound .. originally from ireland .. and she is always catching rabbits and bringing them too me .. it really upsets me

thats what greyhounds were bred for;) you should really have a go at eating them, or at least prepare them for your dog as they love rabbit:)

[clachan]

[QUOTE=jonas parker;1061694]And exactly how will France be safer? And how will someone get to France from the UK after the collapse of social order?

Your best chance IMHO is to either be where you want to be when everything collapses (timing IS everything), or have a 30' or larger sloop rigged, stocked, and ready to go.

Ofcourse France will be safer and the uk is the last place you want to be.A small island in chaos, mainland europe is by far the better option, most of france is rural, large forest areas dotted with tiny villages. From where i live i could walk the 400kms to spain without seeing a soul, does that answer you question ?
Oh yes, nearly forgot, where did i say anything about making a financial transaction and moving house and country during social chaos ??Any idiot would know you couldn,t do that ! Right now we are not in chaos and no body knows IF or when that may happen.
You didn,t read my post in context.

[grannymoose]

Lets just blow this survival myth out the water a bit. The country side in the UK is pretty shit for food ie meat. Lets rephrase that its ok for a few hunters with air rifles or other light weapons as the countryside is Now.
So when the shit goes down where are all the city dwellers likely to look for safe haven or to get out of the towns " the countryside "
So now we have to look at forested areas with a sustainable food chain deer, wild boar ,squirrels, bunnies or basically any thing that moves. Then when we bang a few million people into these areas u ain't going for a shit unless its on someones head :eek: A few million would imo be a conservative estimate because huge amounts of the population in various cities would be on the move out of them. AHH but what about the mountains, moors or plains :rolleyes: Well I don't know how many on here have actually tried to survive in these places for a few weeks as it is now without people every where it isn't like the films !!
Then the weather ffs.What a shitter that is, wet day after wet day , no where to dry your clothes but by lying on them.Where does the Fuel for fires or cooking come from?? unless you want to eat cold food for weeks on end. That's just the fucking summer :D

Then the winter comes, been lucky in the Uk for quite a few years, been pretty mild :) but always a rogue winter around the corner ie last year.
That just amplifies everything. Igloos :eek: yep warmer than the minus 20 outside and sheltered from the wind but still freezing. A tip never share an igloo with some prick that smokes if you dont smoke, it ain't good.
Me I live in the country side 9 miles from the nearest town on a msr. What would I do if the shit hit the fan.... Pray :cool:

Discuss :)

Thank you Thank you
That was the highlight of today i,ve laughed and giggled for 20 minutes couldn't speak at one point lol.

I have pondered this over and over again.
I,ve got a country house in the lake district, beautifull, quite rural where if you forget something from the shop it's a long 40 minute drive back to the sop again.
We got every thing there, i,ve learned what can be eaten in plant life and all the best places for my 2.2 rifle and the local rabbets. But.... as stated above this place won't be much fun when the crap hit's the fan and my home grown produce and little warren spot becomes swamped with refugees from the cites.

[grannymoose]

Ofcourse France will be safer and the uk is the last place you want to be.A small island in chaos, mainland europe is by far the better option, most of france is rural, large forest areas dotted with tiny villages. From where i live i could walk the 400kms to spain without seeing a soul, does that answer you question ?
Oh yes, nearly forgot, where did i say anything about making a financial transaction and moving house and country during social chaos ??Any idiot would know you couldn,t do that ! Right now we are not in chaos and no body knows IF or when that may happen.
You didn,t read my post in context. ..

"i,ve seen how the french protest"... now imagine uncontroled protesting like starving marvins with not even a frog leg insight oy oy it's easy to have paradise no matter how empty it is in the country side, but it will soon become swamped with people on the rampage. I for one will know about country folk and the first port of call for me for food WILL be those quite little spots in the middle of nowhere to check if they have food!

[clachan]

"i,ve seen how the french protest"... now imagine uncontroled protesting like starving marvins with not even a frog leg insight oy oy it's easy to have paradise no matter how empty it is in the country side, but it will soon become swamped with people on the rampage. I for one will know about country folk and the first port of call for me for food WILL be those quite little spots in the middle of nowhere to check if they have food!

France is the biggest country in europe, the nearest biggest place from me is poitiers[not big] and thats 95kms north.What im saying is simply this......mainland europe IS better than being trapped on an overpopulated island. Yes or no ? Th e country side here is huge......swamped,impossible.As well as that all these small hamlets are inhabited by what you might call peasants,ALL OF THEM have gardens,poultry,rabbits,pigs,goats, its the way they have lived for generations,my point being that when hungry lions attack a herd of 20,000 wilderbeast the chances of tou being the victim is 1 in 20,000

[void]

Lets just blow this survival myth out the water a bit. The country side in the UK.......etc

More than anything i think you're getting into imagining what a survival life would be like in comparison to our cushy lives now, and getting down about the realitys of it. Not pointing out crippling obstacles to survival in the UK.

Sure, unique challenges to face, but not enough to make survival null and void. Believing survival in the UK to be a myth is detrimental before you even begin, in my view, because survival is 80% mental and 20% practical as I'm sure you've heard. It would be damn tough and uncomfortable, but that goes with the territory. Yeah, we wouldn't be able to wash clothes much, so we'd have to accept that we'd stink more often than not. We'd adapt, as people around the world even do today. Tibetans monks stank, because bathing was almost a half a yearly thing, due to the cold. Apart from the essential areas to keep clean, bathing is not an essential concern for existing really.

We've just become so used to being 'scentless' due to cushy lives. Nor is meat, essential. Better, in survival sitations and exposed conditions. But not essential. Let the habituated masses fight over the very obvious cows and other stock while we concentrate on the other sources of food that are largely hidden from people who don't have the eyes to see them right there.

Over the years i've been in some pretty sticky situations in dodgy areas of the world in which I discovered that if there is any serious obstacle, it is more often than not the doubter inside our heads that will cook up any excuse to quit, or tell us our body cannot take it anymore, or endless reasons to flop down and accept we're all doomed. Yes, life on this island in the event of a 'sudden dramatic collapse', would be harder in many ways compared to the continent,I agree. But I can't see millions of people in UK moving out into the forests or moors or even coast immediately even in the event of sudden collapse.

If there one thing about human behaviour, it is that it will cling to the familiar until the reality hits. It lives in denial until the discomfort becomes too great.

Most people are more likely to fearfully remain exactly where they are for as long as possible, until they find it absolutely nescessary to move. It would take a long time for most to accept the life they've known, really is over.

And even once that occurs, I believe the majority will still loiter in urban areas not just out fear of leaving comfort zones, but because quite frankly there are a tremendous amount of resources from our old life style that can be used to prepare for any future more remoter living. We have warehouses of harsh weather clothing, boots, stoves, you name it, people would be spending a lot of time trying to loot and horde that sort of stuff while gobbling up cans and cans of food and bottles of liquid in their own homes in the hope that all this will pass like it's london in the blitz. We'd do well to set about learning (as I'm doing) the various skills needed, and what we can eat on this island in terms of forest areas and coasts so that we can get out there very early on and start living the life that would become inevitable.

At the moment we've got a "slow but sure crumbling" situation going on here, rather than the far more complex challenges that would come from a "sudden and dramatic collapse" scenario. That gives us time, and time best used to clue up on what we 'can' do on this island, rather than what we couldn't.

[clachan]

If anyone is thinking about tne west coast of Scotland, what ever you do DONT forget the midges ! They are hell on earth and will drive you nuts.Also bere in mind that if the gulf steam stops then the uk is ice.

[entrangermercenary]

More than anything i think you're getting into imagining what a survival life would be like in comparison to our cushy lives now, and getting down about the realitys of it. Not pointing out crippling obstacles to survival in the UK.

Sure, unique challenges to face, but not enough to make survival null and void. Believing survival in the UK to be a myth is detrimental before you even begin, in my view, because survival is 80% mental and 20% practical as I'm sure you've heard. It would be damn tough and uncomfortable, but that goes with the territory. Yeah, we wouldn't be able to wash clothes much, so we'd have to accept that we'd stink more often than not. We'd adapt, as people around the world even do today. Tibetans monks stank, because bathing was almost a half a yearly thing, due to the cold. Apart from the essential areas to keep clean, bathing is not an essential concern for existing really.

We've just become so used to being 'scentless' due to cushy lives. Nor is meat, essential. Better, in survival sitations and exposed conditions. But not essential. Let the habituated masses fight over the very obvious cows and other stock while we concentrate on the other sources of food that are largely hidden from people who don't have the eyes to see them right there.

Over the years i've been in some pretty sticky situations in dodgy areas of the world in which I discovered that if there is any serious obstacle, it is more often than not the doubter inside our heads that will cook up any excuse to quit, or tell us our body cannot take it anymore, or endless reasons to flop down and accept we're all doomed. Yes, life on this island in the event of a 'sudden dramatic collapse', would be harder in many ways compared to the continent,I agree. But I can't see millions of people in UK moving out into the forests or moors or even coast immediately even in the event of sudden collapse.

If there one thing about human behaviour, it is that it will cling to the familiar until the reality hits. It lives in denial until the discomfort becomes too great.

Most people are more likely to fearfully remain exactly where they are for as long as possible, until they find it absolutely nescessary to move. It would take a long time for most to accept the life they've known, really is over.

And even once that occurs, I believe the majority will still loiter in urban areas not just out fear of leaving comfort zones, but because quite frankly there are a tremendous amount of resources from our old life style that can be used to prepare for any future more remoter living. We have warehouses of harsh weather clothing, boots, stoves, you name it, people would be spending a lot of time trying to loot and horde that sort of stuff while gobbling up cans and cans of food and bottles of liquid in their own homes in the hope that all this will pass like it's london in the blitz. We'd do well to set about learning (as I'm doing) the various skills needed, and what we can eat on this island in terms of forest areas and coasts so that we can get out there very early on and start living the life that would become inevitable.

At the moment we've got a "slow but sure crumbling" situation going on here, rather than the far more complex challenges that would come from a "sudden and dramatic collapse" scenario. That gives us time, and time best used to clue up on what we 'can' do on this island, rather than what we couldn't.


1st of all answer me this did u actually read any of the posts ?? You mention mental strength I wrote

....." Hopefully it will never come to that but if it does a major part of survival is your mental strength. "



So survival in the uk eh!! Well normally when a war occurs the population will come from the countryside into the cities. Now imo if we are talking upheaval ie by the government or a major worldwide natural disaster why wont it go the other way?? IT would only take a very small percentage from each city to head from the countryside to get large numbers getting into it.

In reality its a hypothetical question with no definitive answer as the scenarios are massively different. Whats good for one may not be good for another. Ive said before if you think that people are going to be alone or very few out there hunting for food in the countryside you are much mistaken.

Have u looked at the amount of true forest areas in the uk that sustain a deer population, wild boar and other food ??

You can do all the courses you like, but the main concept of survival is doing what you need to survive and ALL THAT IT ENTAILS
Seems to me a lot of people do not want to do that, but imo will change there mind if/when a crisis of these proportions arrives. So yes be prepared, it wont be easy but usually there are survivors.

Would be interested to know your sticky situations and how you got out of them ?? :)

[kodiak]

Posted on Rawles' survivalblog on Wed 22nd July re NW SCOTLAND as best retreat terrain within the UK:

Although I very much agree that UK residents should, if possible, move overseas, I nonetheless believe that due to financial, residency requirements and other reasons, not everyone will be able to leave the UK to relocate in America, NZ or elsewhere. For those people, there remains the option of what I believe is one of the best retreat locations within the European Union: north of the Great Glen in Scotland. Specifically, I view the lower lying (farmable) terrain along the west coast and islands as being best suited to this purpose.

The benefits are, from my various sorties to study the region:

1. One of lowest population densities in western Europe.

2. Both distance (by UK standards!) and formidable mountainous barriers between the region and the large urban centers of Glasgow, Edinburgh and the east coast. Its isolation reduces its allure as a target for roaming urbanite gangs, a point even more applicable to the likes of [The Isle of] Skye which, during the days of the conflicts between the Lords of the Isles and the Stewarts, was so shielded by the Highlands wilderness that the king had to send his fleet from the east coast around the north of Scotland to attack them by sea. Even on the Great Britain mainland, the Knoydart region has no road access from the rest of Scotland; it can only be reached by 2 day hike or by sea. Something to bear in mind in a modern grid down scenario.

3. A largely conservative indigenous population, quietly distrustful of modern ways.

4. There are numerous small semi self-reliant communities dotted throughout the region, many of which are used to taking in idealist outsiders seeking refuge from the madding crowds.

5. Whereas the interior of the Highlands can have very severe winters with prolonged periods of heavy snow and sub-zero temperatures, the lower portions of the west coast are relieved by mild Atlantic currents providing a lenient maritime microclimate.

6. A hunting and outdoors culture. There are so many red deer in the region now that some locals are calling for the wolf to be reintroduced to reduce their numbers.

On the down side:

1. Isolation comes at a price; in good weather, it can take the best part of two hours to get to Inverness or Fort William from the west coast or [from the Isle of] Skye. In winter, you may have to wait longer until a storm ends or a snow plow comes along. Bad news if you need urgent medical treatment which, for now, can be circumvented by emergency helicopter missions undertaken by the military.

2. Strict Reformed Christians, who are considerable in number in the region, frown upon many activities that outsiders take for granted; for instance, their observance of the Sunday Sabbath in some cases compels them to pull a chair from the table rather than push it away, as the former mode is seen as less like work than the latter. So digging your garden or hanging clothes on a line on a Sunday would be a good way to alienate them. On the other hand, their lax attitude towards alcohol consumption will surprise teetotaling Christians from outside.

3. There is an undercurrent of lingering resentment towards the English who are still blamed for the infamous Highland Clearances. There is perhaps an outside chance of the odd Englishman becoming the local "expendable gringo" come TEOTWAWKI.

4. The quality of the soil is generally not great, although it is nonetheless possible with assistance from compost to grow a considerable amount of vegetables. Sturdy stock fencing is a must, due to the deer menace. Also, I am told that eagles account for high losses in spring lambs.

5. Self sufficient farming comes under a lot of petty scrutiny from over eager bureaucrats; for instance, it is illegal to help someone else butcher livestock on their holding; you can only do it to your own cattle on your own land.

6. And of course, like the rest of the UK, gun ownership is insanely regulated.

7. Scottish law and conveyancing practices are alien to those in the rest of the UK. Also, property prices tend to be very high, as are property taxes. I know someone who left the Highland to live in France because he couldn't bear the property taxes.

8. Summertime sees the area swamped with hillwalkers and tourists from all over Europe, many of whom are drawn to the quaint coastal communities and who may note ongoing self-sufficiency preparations for later reference.

Overall then, it's very far from perfect but nevertheless presents perhaps an emergency, last minute kind of option for those who don't think they have the wherewithal to make a bigger jump.

[hunter77]

Posted on Rawles' survivalblog on Wed 22nd July re NW SCOTLAND as best retreat terrain within the UK:

Although I very much agree that UK residents should, if possible, move overseas, I nonetheless believe that due to financial, residency requirements and other reasons, not everyone will be able to leave the UK to relocate in America, NZ or elsewhere. For those people, there remains the option of what I believe is one of the best retreat locations within the European Union: north of the Great Glen in Scotland. Specifically, I view the lower lying (farmable) terrain along the west coast and islands as being best suited to this purpose.

The benefits are, from my various sorties to study the region:

1. One of lowest population densities in western Europe.

2. Both distance (by UK standards!) and formidable mountainous barriers between the region and the large urban centers of Glasgow, Edinburgh and the east coast. Its isolation reduces its allure as a target for roaming urbanite gangs, a point even more applicable to the likes of [The Isle of] Skye which, during the days of the conflicts between the Lords of the Isles and the Stewarts, was so shielded by the Highlands wilderness that the king had to send his fleet from the east coast around the north of Scotland to attack them by sea. Even on the Great Britain mainland, the Knoydart region has no road access from the rest of Scotland; it can only be reached by 2 day hike or by sea. Something to bear in mind in a modern grid down scenario.

3. A largely conservative indigenous population, quietly distrustful of modern ways.

4. There are numerous small semi self-reliant communities dotted throughout the region, many of which are used to taking in idealist outsiders seeking refuge from the madding crowds.

5. Whereas the interior of the Highlands can have very severe winters with prolonged periods of heavy snow and sub-zero temperatures, the lower portions of the west coast are relieved by mild Atlantic currents providing a lenient maritime microclimate.

6. A hunting and outdoors culture. There are so many red deer in the region now that some locals are calling for the wolf to be reintroduced to reduce their numbers.

On the down side:

1. Isolation comes at a price; in good weather, it can take the best part of two hours to get to Inverness or Fort William from the west coast or [from the Isle of] Skye. In winter, you may have to wait longer until a storm ends or a snow plow comes along. Bad news if you need urgent medical treatment which, for now, can be circumvented by emergency helicopter missions undertaken by the military.

2. Strict Reformed Christians, who are considerable in number in the region, frown upon many activities that outsiders take for granted; for instance, their observance of the Sunday Sabbath in some cases compels them to pull a chair from the table rather than push it away, as the former mode is seen as less like work than the latter. So digging your garden or hanging clothes on a line on a Sunday would be a good way to alienate them. On the other hand, their lax attitude towards alcohol consumption will surprise teetotaling Christians from outside.

3. There is an undercurrent of lingering resentment towards the English who are still blamed for the infamous Highland Clearances. There is perhaps an outside chance of the odd Englishman becoming the local "expendable gringo" come TEOTWAWKI.

4. The quality of the soil is generally not great, although it is nonetheless possible with assistance from compost to grow a considerable amount of vegetables. Sturdy stock fencing is a must, due to the deer menace. Also, I am told that eagles account for high losses in spring lambs.

5. Self sufficient farming comes under a lot of petty scrutiny from over eager bureaucrats; for instance, it is illegal to help someone else butcher livestock on their holding; you can only do it to your own cattle on your own land.

6. And of course, like the rest of the UK, gun ownership is insanely regulated.

7. Scottish law and conveyancing practices are alien to those in the rest of the UK. Also, property prices tend to be very high, as are property taxes. I know someone who left the Highland to live in France because he couldn't bear the property taxes.

8. Summertime sees the area swamped with hillwalkers and tourists from all over Europe, many of whom are drawn to the quaint coastal communities and who may note ongoing self-sufficiency preparations for later reference.

Overall then, it's very far from perfect but nevertheless presents perhaps an emergency, last minute kind of option for those who don't think they have the wherewithal to make a bigger jump.

ive allways fancied a go at being a crofter in the nw of scotland.
you can alo more than feed yourself from the beaches all year round:)

[ulaw]

Interesting thread, However i believe the shit will not really hit the fan, like the way we have seen portrayed in the movies.
Problem reaction solution is the MO of the NWO.

In order to survive folks need to band together in decentralised communities.
This is very easy to do in the urban areas,shelter and food is widely available.
I guess weapons are also needed to protect against other scavangers/the status quo. Its interesting that the status quo are still working on getting arms out of the hands of the public, for what reason.
It is criminal to not let people defend themselves.

There is also info on the net about how to make free energy devices should gas and electricity be out. As for water and food. Well the shops will have them stocked, i guess that will be simply be a case of help yourself.
Many people the surplus will simply panic and want to be lead, i guess its simply a case of banding together with like minded other.

[kodiak]

What's coming just won't be about surviving collapse, or martial law. It will be about surviving the roundup after the next "deep event" which will be pinned on people who oppose the NWO. People like us, perhaps.

[lynfowars]

Provided I don't insist on lrge Cod or Pollack every cast, I can pretty much guarantee I will come home from a sea shore fishing trip with enough fish to feed a family - 365 days come sun or snow.

My secret - a beachcaster rod that cast 8 ounces (for stormy, windy days) and enough skill in casting 100yd plus. Lots of supplies of line & hooks -bait is available 365 days a year (crabs, mussels, lugwoms) or feathered hooks.

In the Summer, I often go home after just 10 minutes with too much fish to carry! like 20-30 large mackerel (2.5 - 3.5 Lbs in weight). I smoke them and they last for ages. Salt them and they last almost for ever. Even in the depths of winter, I cannot avoid catching coalfish - tasty as heck and great for fishcakes.

Of course, the REAL big secret is knowing where to fish - but that must remain a secret to those who find these places.

Learn to shore-beachcast and fish - it is the only guaranteed way of fish 365 days. Rivers and inshore ponds are too low stocked and can be enforced. The shoreline cannnot -especially at night -when fishing there is best anyway.

Just for info if you are keen. I also rate an air-rifle as 'must have'.

[rowantk]

Im gonna make camp in a tin mine. Sometimes coming up to hunt local rabbit, fish and forage.............Well thats me sorted

[kodiak]

It's what you're going to do to survive the martial law lockdown, travel restriction, compulsory implants, food controls, summary "justice", etc that matters now. I'd put surviving a grid down crash way down the list of priorities at this stage.

[entrangermercenary]

Im gonna make camp in a tin mine. Sometimes coming up to hunt local rabbit, fish and forage.............Well thats me sorted


Well I was going to use tin mines to dump bodies in and rubbish. Also as a safe place to take a shit :D Nothing like having a dump in peace without having to worry about the enemy coming around the corner :eek: :D (only joking m8) :)

[stickwhistler]

Well I was going to use tin mines to dump bodies in and rubbish....

At 600,000 Calories per body! :eek:

Get yer Hannibal Cookbook out.

"Nice leg of councillor, only 5 spuds a kilo!
Get yer shoulder of copper, 5 onions a Kilo!
Nice bit-o-rump. Slice it thin madam?
That's 1 dozen eggs please.
Finger lickin' snacks for the kids sir?
Ere! Suck on this miss!" :D

[hunter77]

Provided I don't insist on lrge Cod or Pollack every cast, I can pretty much guarantee I will come home from a sea shore fishing trip with enough fish to feed a family - 365 days come sun or snow.

My secret - a beachcaster rod that cast 8 ounces (for stormy, windy days) and enough skill in casting 100yd plus. Lots of supplies of line & hooks -bait is available 365 days a year (crabs, mussels, lugwoms) or feathered hooks.

In the Summer, I often go home after just 10 minutes with too much fish to carry! like 20-30 large mackerel (2.5 - 3.5 Lbs in weight). I smoke them and they last for ages. Salt them and they last almost for ever. Even in the depths of winter, I cannot avoid catching coalfish - tasty as heck and great for fishcakes.

Of course, the REAL big secret is knowing where to fish - but that must remain a secret to those who find these places.

Learn to shore-beachcast and fish - it is the only guaranteed way of fish 365 days. Rivers and inshore ponds are too low stocked and can be enforced. The shoreline cannnot -especially at night -when fishing there is best anyway.

Just for info if you are keen. I also rate an air-rifle as 'must have'.

as a very keen angler myself i know what you mean, and knowing a good mark is a must. having said that some of the food found on the sea sure , what we would call bait ( mussels, prawns, peelers ect) is t as tasty and nutricious:)

[jakemaverick]

surviving in the uk is overrated....pls kill me!!!

[margaretr]

I have bought 3 books about edible wild plants in UK. I took a 20 minute stroll down a dirt track near my home and found 4 of them

[ronny]

Lets just blow this survival myth out the water a bit. The country side in the UK is pretty shit for food ie meat. Lets rephrase that its ok for a few hunters with air rifles or other light weapons as the countryside is Now.
So when the shit goes down where are all the city dwellers likely to look for safe haven or to get out of the towns " the countryside "
So now we have to look at forested areas with a sustainable food chain deer, wild boar ,squirrels, bunnies or basically any thing that moves. Then when we bang a few million people into these areas u ain't going for a shit unless its on someones head :eek: A few million would imo be a conservative estimate because huge amounts of the population in various cities would be on the move out of them. AHH but what about the mountains, moors or plains :rolleyes: Well I don't know how many on here have actually tried to survive in these places for a few weeks as it is now without people every where it isn't like the films !!
Then the weather ffs.What a shitter that is, wet day after wet day , no where to dry your clothes but by lying on them.Where does the Fuel for fires or cooking come from?? unless you want to eat cold food for weeks on end. That's just the fucking summer :D

Then the winter comes, been lucky in the Uk for quite a few years, been pretty mild :) but always a rogue winter around the corner ie last year.
That just amplifies everything. Igloos :eek: yep warmer than the minus 20 outside and sheltered from the wind but still freezing. A tip never share an igloo with some prick that smokes if you dont smoke, it ain't good.
Me I live in the country side 9 miles from the nearest town on a msr. What would I do if the shit hit the fan.... Pray :cool:

Discuss :)
Start a New Life
Move to Bulgaria have a new house built. :)

Contact John Mitchell:

http://www.remax.bg/1stchoiceforhomes

http://alexood.services.officelive.com/ECOHouses.aspx

:)