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For the first time in my life as a parent I find myself in a very hard place and I really need advice and guidance...
As my Beloved Son is turning 16 in a couple of months i have received the dreaded letter from the Inland Revenue with regard to issuing him with a National Insurance Number Card :(
On reading this letter I see nowhere does it state that I am bound by Law to fill it out....But......you just know there's going to be trouble if I don't.....what makes me think this? I don't know I guess its just that inbreed fear of the boss.
I discussed this with my very free minded Son and his opinion is "Dont fill it in!" But i don't want to cause him trouble in getting work that he wants to do when he finishes college.
In short I'm torn between doing what's right for my Son and ...doing what's right for my Son! :confused:
The letter is a very loose invitation to supply them with the correct names to put on his card and says that if i delay in returning this they may not be able to give "childs name in block capitals" a national insurance number card or send one at the right time.
Here is a photograph on the letter with the personal information covered but i can tell you my Son's name shows twice in block capitals but as you can see i'm asked to supply his name in the space provided. Also i noticed it doesn't state that i have to supply it in capitals...
Top half
http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m131/LAD_VXL/Other%20Stuff/DSC01269.jpg
Bottom half
http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m131/LAD_VXL/Other%20Stuff/DSC01270.jpg
yozhik
14-05-2009, 02:06 PM
Don't do it.
No hurry.
If it becomes unbearable, this additional enslavement device can be applied for at ANY stage and at any age.
Seriously ... there is no hurry.
Why not wait until your son is of a mind and age to make this leap himself :)
Don't do it.
No hurry.
If it becomes unbearable, this additional enslavement device can be applied for at ANY stage and at any age.
Seriously ... there is no hurry.
Why not wait until your son is of a mind and age to make this leap himself :)
Thank you for replying yozhik :)
In my gut i totally agree with you and actually the wording on the letter helps to make me feel calmer about ignoring it....to a degree.
What is the procedure when applying for a job if you don't know your NI number?
I do think my Son should make up his own mind about this and I think that is why its the last thing a parent is asked to do as we naturally want to make sure our children have all they need to start their life after school, and this ensures they get their number.
tom bombadil
14-05-2009, 04:05 PM
For what it is worth Lozz here is my oppinion.
I had the very same letter for my son this year.
I went through the same turmoil as you. 'Dammed' if you do 'dammed' if you dont. What to do?
I did this. First I thought that I (and you) are in a position of flux. We came in on the 'action' after we had recived our own N.I. numbers and were only now learning to come to terms with the lies.
Our ma and Pa's had no idea. If they had, they would have thought about it all before even thinking about having kids. The same as you and I probably. So in a nutshell, I had to chose not between N.I. or not, but between hardship (or percived hardship) for my son or not. He was dragged up by the schools beliving all the crap that we were, so is in true belief that when he leaves school he will need to find a job or stay on at school or face the dole. All three are options that hold stability (of sorts). To take all three away from him would force him into possibly thinking that there is no hope (indoctrination is rife and hard, HARD to break).
I remembered that I am now moving out of it all and am quite happy to do so because (for me) I am quite lucky to have a good job that would only leave pensions and medical (paid in before now) and PAYE (getting my tax back each year) to worry over. On top of that I am a wiser soul at my age.
I decided to let him have it. To go for it untill, like you and me, he is ready. It will be simpler for him to allow him to sit on the fence for now.
He will soon, I hope, see how we are enjoying all the freedom that it will give and just opt out himself. Simples!!:)
Hope this helps. It helped me take a lot off of my mind.
Tom.
Thank you so much for that Tom ;)
It sounds like you totally understand my feels at the moment and what you say feels right.
The most important thing for me is that I'm not forcing any system on my Son as I want him to grow with a free mind and not look back and feel I'd let him down.
I hear what your saying Tom about our folks and the lack of knowledge and understanding of how this systems/deception works makes a big difference in how i view their decisions.
As I said earlier my Son is a young free thinker and I hope I've done a good job of bringing him up to question for himself and at the very least he is aware of the whole deception so that gives him a head start on us :)
I think the best thing to do is talk to him more about it so at least we make the choice together and he starts off with his feet firmly on the ground with his eyes open. Then hopefully rather than live to work (for the system) he can use the system to enjoy his experience. :)
tom bombadil
14-05-2009, 05:13 PM
No problem Lozz (new mate :) )
I think that as his name was used to get funds by the gov. then you could use those funds to keep him for a while longer.
Tom.
wakeupworld
14-05-2009, 05:24 PM
Don`t do it, we become slaves to the system unbeknown to us or our parents. Now we know what`s going on and to become (voluntarily) a slave to the system is much worse.
john white
14-05-2009, 05:39 PM
How about "I'm willing to fill it in but can you send me a copy of the policy my son will be insured for first, so I can understand how I will be contracting him by using my parental authority"
We'd all love to know! :)
Ian2day
14-05-2009, 08:23 PM
I expect that he can always hand it back when he reaches 18. I read in another post that someone else used their NI number as proof of car/vehicle insurance in a court case about driving/controlling a vehicle/car on the public highway/tracks and byways. If unsure stick with the contract of NI offered by the government. Also something to consider is that benefits may not be around in 50 plus years time. So even a basic pension as offered under NI even if unemployed at any point is a benefit not to be lost. Remember that plenty of people have lost their pensions in the latest shambles. Of course you could purcashe some gold each week and stash it away hoping that no one finds it. I seem to recall that in the past governments have seized gold in hard times.
disorder2k8
14-05-2009, 08:28 PM
Even if your son cant get work in this time, he can still claim as a 2nd person on anothers benefit and will get a NI card issued automatically after i think 6 months anyway
my Ex was a german national with no ID, she came over here and I put in a joint claim, down the line she seemed to get a national ID anyway which allowed her to get a job
I think they are issued as soon as any tax calculation is involved on any of your income
No problem Lozz (new mate :) )
:D
Don`t do it, we become slaves to the system unbeknown to us or our parents. Now we know what`s going on and to become (voluntarily) a slave to the system is much worse.
And i think the fact that we can go into their system with full knowledge of it gives us an advantage.....maybe we should us the softly softly approach back at them and now use them for our own gains :)
How about "I'm willing to fill it in but can you send me a copy of the policy my son will be insured for first, so I can understand how I will be contracting him by using my parental authority"
We'd all love to know! :)
Honestly if i was a single person with no children I would be a free woman on the land believe me http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m131/LAD_VXL/nodder.gif but i dont feel right about dragging my husband along or lanching my son onto that platform at such a young age :)
Of course you could purcashe some gold each week and stash it away hoping that no one finds it. I seem to recall that in the past governments have seized gold in hard times.
:eek: so my options are pay them every month peacefully or squirrel it and have it forcibly taken! http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m131/LAD_VXL/laugh.gif
Even if your son cant get work in this time, he can still claim as a 2nd person on anothers benefit and will get a NI card issued automatically after i think 6 months anyway
Hopefully he won't need to apply for any benefits(remember he's only 16 so will find work far quicker than us older ones) my main concern was that an employer would not want him without an NI number. Even for weekend work or college breaks.
Do you not have to provide proof of the second person on the claim then??
disorder2k8
15-05-2009, 03:09 PM
Do you not have to provide proof of the second person on the claim then??
Its a bit of a vicious circle and this was several years ago anyway, so I really cant tell you what the situation with everything is now