Freemasonry in Nazi Germany

[catfood]

Found this wile on the on a forum debating freemasonry in Nazi Germany, havent had time to look into it. What do you lot thing about this?

Himmler stated that Freemasonry was "based on the ideas of liberty, equality and fraternity, the rights of man and humanistic ideas. But this is a mere smoke-screen to capture the masses and operate on their minds, or at least centralize them. It is a diabolically ingenious plot whose idea is to bring under masonic influence all worthy and respectable men, particularly those in public office, in the liberal professions and executive posts in finance and industry. These poor deceived men believe they serve a great humanitarian ideal but the masons of the highest degree are identified with the members of the inner circle of the Elders of Sion, the Jews who manipulate the world using Freemasonry as a disguise for their international power."


One must also take issue with the description of the SS as being "pseudo-religious". The Nazi aim was "the Greater Germanic Reich". This was a Nordic-racial and agricultural-pagan concept based on the pre-Bronze Age Aryan ancestors and the worship of the two suns, of which the swastika was the ancestral symbol (Prof. Heinar Schilling, "Germanisches Leben", Koehler & Amarung, Leipzig 1936).


The underlying religion, as expressed by Hitler in his table-talks, was twofold: (1) "Everything is God", this being not only a Hindu-Aryan principle, but also the foundation of the Jewish Qabala, the emanation of the Cosmos from the En Sof: and (2) the basis of human existence is Reincarnation, i.e. all humans, including Jews and other despised races, return to the Source at death and are eventually reborn. Thus the Nazis did not condemn the spirit of a person, only the physical race: if what they considered to be the "inferior races" could be destroyed, all souls would eventually be reborn into a "superior" race.


Reincarnation (or rebirth) is the underlying principle of the major religions of Hinduism and Buddhism and many esoteric cults. Hitler stated that he was determined to destroy Christianity at root. This was necessary because the Christian idea of heaven was a fiction, Jesus Christ was not divine, and the assurance that whoever believed in him would be saved was a fairy story. Whilst mankind held the belief that Jesus Christ would be there waiting for Everyman at the pearly gates at his or her death, there could be no way forward, no hope of spiritual advancement for humanity.

[luciferhorus]

The Frederick the Great Association and German Freemasonry under the Nazis


By Watchy of www.freemasonrywatch.org

http://www.freemasonrywatch.org/P2.html

One of the more twisted myths being propagated by 'Regular' Anglo-American Freemasonry of late is that the Nazi's persecuted 'regular' Freemasonry in Germany during it's reign.

'Regular' Freemasonry plays the recognition game if it wants to deny that a particular infamous individual was a Freemason. Usually this is carried out in regard to Grand Orient Freemasons, which it does not recognize as being legitimate Masons because it has it's own operation called 'Grand Lodges' set up in their countries, France being the largest instance.

In Germany at the time the Nazi's came to power(with the aid of numerous Freemason High Financiers like Henry Ford) there existed nine Grand Lodges and Orients.

Three Grand Lodges were were known as 'Old Prussian Grand Lodges', which were large, well organized, and contained the bulk of all Freemasons in Germany. Six were called 'Modern Grand Lodges', which were small, isolated, with only a few thousand members each.

One of the groupings had always banned Jews from joining and was fiercely nationalistic and reactionary in it's politics. One of the groupings had always allowed Jews to join and was international and liberal in it's politics.

It was the 'Old Prussian Grand Lodges', which contained the High Command Officers, Industrialists, and Royal Houses who had always banned Jews from joining and which was fiercely nationalistic and reactionary in it's politics that the American and British Grand Lodges recognized as being 'regular'.

The 'Moderns', the ones that allowed Jews to join? 'Regular' Freemasonry said they were 'irregular' and 'clandestine'. In other words they did not recognize the Grand Lodges that allowed Jews to join as being Freemasons or Freemasonry what so ever.

'Regular' Freemasonry is trying to hoodwink their recognition of the anti-semitic National Grand Lodges and their non recognition of the non anti-semitic International Grand Lodges.

The Nazi's shut down the 'Modern' Grand Lodges whose membership was heavily jewish, liberal, and 'international', but allowed the 'national'

Old Prussian Grand Lodges to carry on after their Grand Master's sent formal written oaths of alliegence to 'Mein Furher', changed their name to 'The Frederick the Great Association'(Frederick the Great being German 'Regular' Freemasonry's founder and principal patron.), and removed any obvious Hebraic wording from it's rituals.

When the war was over 'regular' Freemasonry operating under the guise of 'The Frederick the Great Association' changed their name back to what it was before Crystal Nacht. You won't see any of this mentioned on any of those 'Is it true what they say about Freemasonry?' or 'Difficult Questions about Freemasonry' web sites that 'regular' Freemasonry has mirrored all over the net.

The Scottish Rite had its beginning in France, when in 1754, the Chevalier de Bonneville established in Paris, a chapter of twenty-five so-called High Degrees which, including the three symbolic Degrees, these High Degrees were called the Rite of Perfection. In 1758 these Degrees were taken to Berlin and placed under a body called the Council of Emperors of the East and West, and in 1762 Frederick the Great of Prussia became the head of the Rite and promulgated what is known as the Constitution of 1762. In 1786 a reorganization took place in which eight Degrees were added to the twenty-five, and the name changed to the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry. By this Constitution, Frederick resigned his authority as Grand Commander and provided that the government of the new system of Degrees should rest with a Council of each Nation, to be composed of nine Sovereign Grand Inspectors General of the Thirty-Third and last Degree of Freemasonry. Source: AASR, Orient of Texas.

There was absolutely no persecution of 'regular' Freemasonry in Germany. How could there have been? The Old Prussian 'regular' National Grand Lodges were filled with Officers of the High Command, Captains of Industry, Commerce, Finance, Leading Citizens, and Royalty, most of whom were loyal Nazi Party members themselves. The very men who brought Hitler to power. All with the knowledge of American and British 'regular' Grand Lodge Freemasonry and it's hereditary pro-nazi Grand Master the Duke of Kent.

__________________________

The previous Duke of Kent (the current Duke who is the current Grand Master of Enlgish Masonry) - George Edward Alexander Edmund was installed as Grand Master by King George VI in 1939.

Historians tell us that the late Grand Master was Pro Nazi and travelled the Fatherland in order to better educate the King about National Socialism

http://www.returnofthenephilim.com/FreemasonryFirstDegree-2.html

____________________

[catfood]

Thank you for that. Very interesting

[luciferhorus]

Thank you for that. Very interesting

Well it also relates to the current debate on this forum between two factions of Masonry represented by 'Thelonious' and the 'Grand Secretary.' If I understand the debate correctly, the Grand Secretary, does not represent 'regular' Freemasonry and considers his religious cult of assorted Capitalists and anti-Communists to be more ancient in origin, and he is apparently considered a 'heretic' by the majority of Masons (despite obviously being very good terms with some of them), while Thelonious appears to represent the majority of Masonic cultists who are also devotees of the god of Capital and similarly an assortment of anti-Communist dross.

It is very much like the debate between Catholic and evangelical Christians as far as I am concerned, since I find all parties to the evangelical Chrsitian / Catholic Christian and the Masonic faction debate to be the assortment of 'useless eaters' and economic parasites who represent the priesthood of the god of Capital.


Regularity

Main article: Regular Masonic jurisdictions
Regularity is a constitutional mechanism whereby Grand Lodges or Grand Orients give one another mutual recognition. This recognition allows formal interaction at the Grand Lodge level, and gives individual Freemasons the opportunity to attend Lodge meetings in other recognised jurisdictions. Conversely, regularity proscribes interaction with Lodges that are irregular. A Mason who visits an irregular Lodge may have his membership suspended for a time, or he may be expelled. For this reason, all Grand Lodges maintain lists of other jurisdictions and lodges they consider regular.[14]

Grand Lodges and Grand Orients that afford mutual recognition and allow intervisitation are said to be in amity. As far as the UGLE is concerned, regularity is predicated upon a number of landmarks, set down in the UGLE Constitution and the Constitutions of those Grand Lodges with which they are in amity. Even within this definition there are some variations with the quantity and content of the Landmarks from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. Other Masonic groups organise differently.[15]

Each of the two major branches of Freemasonry considers the Lodges within its branch to be "regular" and those in the other branch to be "irregular". As the UGLE branch is significantly larger, however, the various Grand Lodges and Grand Orients in amity with UGLE are commonly referred to as being "regular" (or "Mainstream") Masonry, while those Grand Lodges and Grand Orients in amity with GOdF are commonly referred to "liberal" or "irregular" Masonry. (The issue is complicated by the fact that the usage of "Lodge" versus "Orient" alone is not an indicator of which branch a body belongs to, and thus not an indication of regularity). The term "irregular" is also universally applied to various self created bodies that call themselves "Masonic" but are not recognised by either of the main branches.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freemasons

Just so that we understand the current debate.

The United Grand Lodge of England constitutes the majority of Masons in England whose German counterparts were Nazi collaborators, and are defined as 'regular' Freemasons, and whose puppet Grand Master is the Duke of Kent, the cousin of the current Capitalist tyrant and the definition of 'religious hypocrisy;' the current representative of the Jesus on earth to the Anglicans, Elizabeth Windsor.

http://www.englishmonarchs.co.uk/images/various/kent.jpg

To simplify this further, the various regular cults associated with regular Masonry who in England rever the Grand Master, the Duke of Kent whose father, the former Grand Master was a Nazi sympathiser, and whose German affiiliations were Nazi collaborators, are part of 'regular Masonry, whose most prominent defender here appears to be Theolonoius; whereas Grand Secretary is part of a different group of cults who were entirely banned by the Nazis.

I hope this similifies matters, assuming I understand the matter of correctly regarding the dispute between these two anti-Communist cultists.


Addendum.

To confuse matters further, Theolonious who appears to represent a cult recognised by the economic and religious establishment over here in Britian, openly admits to being a Kabbalist (as am I), a thelemite (as am I) and considers Crowley to one of the most prominent mentors of New Aeon spirituality (as do I, without suspending criticism); and thus I find him completely at odds with my understanding of the person of his Field Marshall, Grand Master, the Duke of Windsor and his current Capitalist imperialist war which is generally supported by the British aristocracy and by Masons in general, including my Masonic father; further I find Thelonious to hold rather anti-Nazi views and to be somewhat guardedly critical of the current Capitalist establishment, despite being a cultist whose General Master is clearly an aristocratic, militant, anti-Communist, Monarchist and neo-Nazi (by my definition) whose father was a Nazi sympathiser???

Lux

Ordo ab chaos; lux e tenebris

[mike martin]

To confuse matters further, Theolonious who appears to represent a cult recognised by the economic and religious establishment over here in Britian, openly admits to being a Kabbalist (as am I), a thelemite (as am I) and considers Crowley to one of the most prominent mentors of New Aeon spirituality (as do I, without suspending criticism); and thus I find him completely at odds with my understanding of the person of his Field Marshall, Grand Master, the Duke of Windsor and his current Capitalist imperialist war which is generally supported by the British aristocracy and by Masons in general, including my Masonic father; further I find Thelonious to hold rather anti-Nazi views and to be someaht guardedly critical of the current Capitalist establsihment, despite being a cultist whose General Master is clearly an aristocratic, militant, anti-Communist, Monarchist and neo-Nazi (by my defintion) whose father was a Nazi sympathiser???

Herein lies the rub. You fail (in common with many Masonic detractors) to understand or recognise that Freemasonry is not a cult, it is the world's oldest and arguably biggest Fraternity.

There is no "cultist" mind-control and no dogma either political or religious that it members must follow. We all hold our own opinions and belief on any subject you wish to mention.

It is a Fraternity, merely offering its members a very tradional form of fellowship. If you could get your head around that you would understand why you get diufferent opinions from different Masons.

BTW the stuff you posted about Nazi Germany was wack. Hitler (along with all his bum-boys especially Luddendorf) believed that Freemasonry was an element of the "Judeo-Bolshevick plot against his Aryan (which ironically means midlle eastern peoples) "master race". The Grand Lodges you tried to claim were recognised were in fact the Nazi version of the Catholic's Knights of Columbus, set up as the normal recognised Freemasons were shipped off to the concentration camps.

Mike

[watson_k]

The Scottish Rite had its beginning in France, when in 1754, the Chevalier de Bonneville established in Paris, a chapter of twenty-five so-called High Degrees which, including the three symbolic Degrees, these High Degrees were called the Rite of Perfection. In 1758 these Degrees were taken to Berlin and placed under a body called the Council of Emperors of the East and West, and in 1762 Frederick the Great of Prussia became the head of the Rite and promulgated what is known as the Constitution of 1762. In 1786 a reorganization took place in which eight Degrees were added to the twenty-five, and the name changed to the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry. By this Constitution, Frederick resigned his authority as Grand Commander and provided that the government of the new system of Degrees should rest with a Council of each Nation, to be composed of nine Sovereign Grand Inspectors General of the Thirty-Third and last Degree of Freemasonry. Source: AASR, Orient of Texas.

Umm...

There are records of lodges conferring the degree of "Scots Master" or "Scotch Master" as early as 1733. A lodge at Temple Bar in London is the earliest such lodge on record. Other lodges include a lodge at Bath in 1735, and the French lodge, St. George de l'Observance No. 49 at Covent Garden in 1736. The references to these few occasions indicate that these were special meetings held for the purpose of performing unusual ceremonies, probably by visiting Freemasons.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Rite

Why would the Scottish rite have it's beginnings in France and not Scotland? Or at least on the British Isles if it's called Scottish Rite?

Unless you mean "Morin's Rite" which is supposedly the precursor to the Scottish?

[thelonious]

It should be noted that the Christian Society of Frederick the Great was composed of ex-Masons who had turned against Freemasonry once they became Nazis. But even then, they were all eventually expelled from the Nazi Party after the decree was issued that no Nazi could ever have been a Freemason.

Himmler's words on Freemasonry are interesting, and it is a pleasure being singled out as an enemy by such a scumbag.

Somewhere around 800,000 Freemasons were arrested by the Gestapo due to their Masonic affiliations. One of these (perhaps of interest to Luciferhorus) was Brother Karl Germer, who was also Grand Master for the German branch of the O.T.O.

Germer served time in several concentration camps. He made it through the suffering by reciting the Holy Books of Thelema from memory. He was liberated by the Allies soon after D-Day, and he and many other Freemasons immigrated to the United States. Aleister Crowley personally named him Grand Secretary Geberal of the O.T.O. after he was freed.

[luciferhorus]

Herein lies the rub. You fail (in common with many Masonic detractors) to understand or recognise that Freemasonry is not a cult, it is the world's oldest and arguably biggest Fraternity.

There are so many points to respond to on this thread regarding Masonry and the Nazis but since I am busy with other matters this morning, let me first deal with the term 'cult.'

A Religious / Ritualistic Cult Fraternity (ritual from 'ritua' meaning blood; Cult: from L. 'cultus:' to worship; Fraternity from L. 'frater:' brother)

I think it might be helpful here to examine what is a 'cult (a group of worshippers') and what is not a cult.

If we examine the behaviour of anti-cultists we can compare them to cultists.

Temples

Anti-cultists generally do not build Solomonic Temples, nor do the have strange religious rituals, nor would they refer to a cult Master anyone as 'worshipful.'


http://www.officialbhuldahcompany.com/RASING%20THE%20MASTER%20MASON.jpg

http://www.cremationofcare.com/images/symbols/cable_tow/mason_noose.jpg

An anti-cultist or non cultist is unlikely to dress up in strange constumes and and swear oaths on the Bible.

I think that the list could be added to, but I wish to simply make a few points.

Certainly Masonry is a cult of slaves and masters, and to refer to a person as 'Worshipful Master' is certainly the language of a cultist, not one who is free.

http://www.phoenixmasonry.org/masonicmuseum/images/leo_taxil_illustration_1.jpg


A non cultist probably would not be willing to part with money in order to perform a ceremony where one can purchase pompous esoteric and military titles

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/image.php?u=13577&dateline=1229178219

And further consider the 'fancy dress' of the above cultist who claims not to be a cultist.

http://www.euclidlodge.com/images/Img_2733.jpg

Umm...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Rite

Why would the Scottish rite have it's beginnings in France and not Scotland? Or at least on the British Isles if it's called Scottish Rite?

Unless you mean "Morin's Rite" which is supposedly the precursor to the Scottish?


Well I cannot speak for the Masonic cultists, since I am not of them and am entirely opposed to them, however as I understand matters from reading the works of Masons, the Scottish rite cultists generally buy into the legend that the Templars fled France to Scotland in the late 13th century, since in common with the Templars, the Scottish King Robert the Bruce was also excommunicated by the Pope and at war with the English monarch who was on good terms with of the Pope; the alliance between Robert and the Templars allegedly allowed Robert to defeat the English. According to the Scottish legend, the English allegedly fled the field at Bannockburn when they caught sight of the Templars, though this 'legend' is shrouded in myth and is disputed. Further the founder of the Scottish rite in France was a Scottish aristocrat and their were other Scottish expatriots in France who were drawn into the cult.

Lux

[abcnick]

BTW the stuff you posted about Nazi Germany was wack. Hitler (along with all his bum-boys especially Luddendorf) believed that Freemasonry was an element of the "Judeo-Bolshevick plot against his Aryan (which ironically means midlle eastern peoples) "master race". The Grand Lodges you tried to claim were recognised were in fact the Nazi version of the Catholic's Knights of Columbus, set up as the normal recognised Freemasons were shipped off to the concentration camps.

I just cannot reconcile this version of Nazi-Germany's history with the fact that financing came from the US, and I believe, even Britain. It just doesn't add up.

It's probably the same as with the jews - they "sacrificed" lower-ranking "scum" that they didn't care about anyway so they could say that they were persecuted after the war... When higher ranking members actually participated in the financing of Hitler.

[mike martin]

I just cannot reconcile this version of Nazi-Germany's history with the fact that financing came from the US, and I believe, even Britain. It just doesn't add up.
Hitler penned his opinion of Freemasonry (in Mein Kampf) whilst languishing in prison after the failed Beer Hall Putsh of 1923. A decade before he came to power and while he was still dreaming up his revenge against the Marxist/Bolsheviks who he blaimed for Germany's loss of the first World War.

He considered Freemasonry to be the tool of these people as it did not instill "nationalism" within its members and welcomed men of any background, religion etc. I suggest a read of Mein Kampf if you have any doubts about what I'm writing.

Mike

[mike martin]

let me first deal with the term 'cult.'

A Religious / Ritualistic Cult Fraternity (ritual from 'ritua' meaning blood; Cult: from L. 'cultus:' to worship; Fraternity from L. 'frater:' brother)

Well let's cut through the bollox and pretty pictures shall we. I think it's safe for you to assume that you are mainly discussing with people over the age of 12 around here.

According to the Wordsmyth Dictionary of Etemology. In the beginning of its use, Cult meant:
1617, "worship," also "a particular form of worship," from Fr. culte, from L. cultus "care, cultivation, worship," originally "tended, cultivated," pp. of colere "to till" (see colony). Rare after 17c.; revived mid-19c. with reference to ancient or primitive rituals. Meaning "devotion to a person or thing" is from 1829.

Nowadays, its meaning is generally:
▸ noun: a system of religious beliefs and rituals
▸ noun: adherents of an exclusive system of religious beliefs and practices
▸ noun: an interest followed with exaggerated zeal


Fraternity:

• noun (pl. fraternities) 1 a group of people sharing a common profession or interests. 2 N. Amer. a male students’ society in a university or college. 3 a religious or masonic society or guild. 4 friendship and mutual support within a group.

Ritual:
▸ noun: stereotyped behavior
▸ noun: any customary observance or practice
▸ noun: the prescribed procedure for conducting religious ceremonies
▸ adjective: of or relating to or employed in social rites or rituals ("A ritual dance of Haiti")
▸ adjective: of or relating to or characteristic of religious rituals

Why not stop making up your own definitions of words.

Mike

[catfood]

I have a copy of mein kampf. I shall move it up my list of books to read.

[catfood]

Not meaning to form an Abusive analogy. But interestingly at a glance Mien Kampf would suggest that by switching Jew with Illuminati, Hitler would hold the exact same philosophy towards freemasonry and the press (media) as many on this forum.

[mike martin]

I have a copy of mein kampf. I shall move it up my list of books to read.

Chapter 11 "Race and People" is where to look.

Also Gen. Erich Ludendorff (another German hero from WWI) published "The Destruction of Freemasonry through the Revelation of its Secrets” in 1924

Mike

[catfood]

Chapter 11 "Race and People" is where to look.

Also Gen. Erich Ludendorff (another German hero from WWI) published "The Destruction of Freemasonry through the Revelation of its Secrets” in 1924

Mike

Have you read the book, to what secrets was he referring?
More then just tokens and signs of membership. Would you be willing to give some examples from the book?

[mike martin]

Have you read the book, to what secrets was he referring?
More then just tokens and signs of membership. Would you be willing to give some examples from the book?

No whenever I find copies of the 1977 translation, it is more than I want to pay. He was not a major influence on what occured during the 1930s as he had fallen out with Hitler by the late 1920s.

However, from the excerpts that I have read the "secrets" he was talking about consist of Freemasonry encouraging the Marxist Revolution (quite funny since the Bolsheviks banned Freemasonry in Russia) and that the Grand Lodge of New York (all by itself) brought the US into the First War thereby securing Germany's defeat

Mike

[luciferhorus]

Well let's cut through the bollox and pretty pictures shall we. I think it's safe for you to assume that you are mainly discussing with people over the age of 12 around here.

According to the Wordsmyth Dictionary of Etemology. In the beginning of its use, Cult meant:
1617, "worship," also "a particular form of worship," from Fr. culte, from L. cultus "care, cultivation, worship," originally "tended, cultivated," pp. of colere "to till" (see colony). Rare after 17c.; revived mid-19c. with reference to ancient or primitive rituals. Meaning "devotion to a person or thing" is from 1829.



Thank you for your etemology of 'cult,' Mike, but I rather prefer to point to a personification of the term 'cult' rather than merely a definition in language.

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/image.php?u=13577&dateline=1229178219

A picture tells a 100 words.


Nowadays, its meaning is generally:
▸ noun: a system of religious beliefs and rituals
▸ noun: adherents of an exclusive system of religious beliefs and practices
▸ noun: an interest followed with exaggerated zeal


http://www.davidicke.com/forum/image.php?u=13577&dateline=1229178219


Ditto

Fraternity:

• noun (pl. fraternities) 1 a group of people sharing a common profession or interests. 2 N. Amer. a male students’ society in a university or college. 3 a religious or masonic society or guild. 4 friendship and mutual support within a group.

Ritual:
▸ noun: stereotyped behavior
▸ noun: any customary observance or practice
▸ noun: the prescribed procedure for conducting religious ceremonies
▸ adjective: of or relating to or employed in social rites or rituals ("A ritual dance of Haiti")
▸ adjective: of or relating to or characteristic of religious rituals


OK would 'religious cult fraternity' suit you?


http://www.davidicke.com/forum/image.php?u=13577&dateline=1229178219


Why not stop making up your own definitions of words.

Mike


No, I come fully equipped with a vast understanding of linguistics. When I say 'fraternity of religious cultists' I speak publicly on a public discussion group, in the common language of the proletariat; whereas when you imply that you and your Grand Master are not a 'fraternity of religious cultists,' you are speaking 'insider language;' you can redefine langauge to suit yourself when speaking between yourselves, but I must correct your language on this public forum, since we address the proletariat.


http://www.davidicke.com/forum/image.php?u=13577&dateline=1229178219

When higher ranking members actually participated in the financing of Hitler.

(and)

the Grand Lodge of New York (all by itself) brought the US into the First War



I think that I shall remain relatively silent for a while and allow your sentances above to sink in to the minds of this fraternity here.

Thank goodness that Masonic cultists do not involve themselves in politics:-)

BTW the stuff you posted about Nazi Germany was wack. Hitler (along with all his bum-boys especially Luddendorf)



You belong to a male cult; you take your clothes off in front of other men in order to perform strange rites and rituals dressed in what I can only describe as medieval fetish gear; you worship a male diety; you do not allow women to join your cult, and you describe Hilter's confidante's as 'bum boys?' Frankly your homophobia is as entirely unconvincing as your statements that Masons do not get involved in politics and economics????

I tend to think that heterosexual or bisexual Pagans (I include myself in the latter category) would involve women in their rituals, but your cult appears to be exclusively homosexual.

People who are not homosexual do not behave as you and your cultists do; they tend to want to hang out with women; I do not wish to this to be taken as an expression of homophobia, by the way; I am merely rather describing your male fraternity and your male god(s).

http://images.quizilla.com/V/VixenB24/1085707470_267_raaaa2.jpg

http://www.pheos-online.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2006/08/stoness.jpg

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/image.php?u=13577&dateline=1229178219


http://www.cremationofcare.com/images/symbols/cable_tow/mason_noose.jpg

http://www.grailcode.net/freemason.jpg

Frankly I don't find all this fetish gear to be that sexy; the thought of the rivers of blood of the previous and current wars tends to give me a 'soft-on' and I think of rushing headlong into some cult of women to seek salvation.

Oh worshipful Diana, Artemis, Isis, save us from this cult of men; hear my solemn prayer and please inspire human will to cull these chaff from the face of the earth and from under the earth.

Lux

http://www.linsdomain.com/gods&goddesses/pictures/Artemis.jpg

[boots]

Herein lies the rub. You fail (in common with many Masonic detractors) to understand or recognise that Freemasonry is not a cult, it is the world's oldest and arguably biggest Fraternity.

There is no "cultist" mind-control and no dogma either political or religious that it members must follow. We all hold our own opinions and belief on any subject you wish to mention.

It is a Fraternity, merely offering its members a very tradional form of fellowship. If you could get your head around that you would understand why you get diufferent opinions from different Masons.

BTW the stuff you posted about Nazi Germany was wack. Hitler (along with all his bum-boys especially Luddendorf) believed that Freemasonry was an element of the "Judeo-Bolshevick plot against his Aryan (which ironically means midlle eastern peoples) "master race". The Grand Lodges you tried to claim were recognised were in fact the Nazi version of the Catholic's Knights of Columbus, set up as the normal recognised Freemasons were shipped off to the concentration camps.

Mike

Whats the matter mikey boy? Take one paragraph out of the post and focus on that, because the rest of it you cannot refute???

:rolleyes:

Weak!

All the supposed abominations, the skeletons and death's head, the coffins and the mysteries, are mere bogeys for children. But there is one dangerous element and that is the element I have copied from them. They form a sort of priestly nobility. They have developed and esoteric doctrine more merely formulated, but imparted through the symbols and mysteries in degrees of initiation. The hierarchical organization and the initiation through symbolic rites, that is to say, without bothering the brain by working on the imagination through magic and the symbols of a cult, all this has a dangerous element, and the element I have taken over. Don't you see that our party must be of this character...? An Order, the hierarchial Order of a secular priesthood."

-Adolf Hitler praising Freemasonry

"Hitler did make one exception, however; his 1942 law banning secret societies and confiscating their assets specifically exempted the "old Prussian" Freemason lodges. This group followed the Nazi racial purity ideal far more closely than the "humanitarian Freemasonry" (as the Angeberts distinguish the different streams) and shared Hitler's disdain for the other branches of Freemasons, not to mention for the Jews as well. (p.157)"

- Hannah Newman
'The Rainbow Swastika'


Answer to ALL of the points in a post Martin, instead of trying to turn it around into a opinion based one, where the thread just turns into dribble.

[luciferhorus]

It should be noted that the Christian Society of Frederick the Great was composed of ex-Masons who had turned against Freemasonry once they became Nazis.

These so called ex-Masons are simply ex-Masons by your own private and personal defintion; as I understand the situation, their cult was considered 'regular Masonry' and recognised by the United Grand Lodge of England (UGLE), whose Grand Master, the late Duke of Kent was a known Nazi sympathiser. The majority of the Masons persecuted in Germany appear to have been non-regular Masons and were of a similar ilk to the Grand Secretary's cult which is also not recognised by UGLE, despite apparently being on good terms with UGLE cultists, not that such differences matter very much to me since they are both Capitalist cults and cults of Capitalists, state terrorist collaborators and the like.

Lux

[boots]

http://www.freemasonrywatch.org/pics/DukeofKent_secrethandshake.jpg The Dukes of Kent

The Grand Master of the United Grand Lodge of England, the Most Worshipful, His Royal Highness, Prince Edward George Nicholas Paul Patrick 33°, Duke of Kent, Knight of the Garter, Field Marshall, GCMC, GCVO, ADC, Hereditary Grand Master of Anglo-American Freemasonry.
The previous Duke of Kent - George Edward Alexander Edmund was installed as Grand Master by King George VI in 1939. He died three years later in 1942 in a mysterious plane crash in Scotland, six months after it was alleged he and the Duke of Hamilton had kept a moonlight appointment with ReichFuerher Rudolf Hess on the Caledonian Moor.
Historians tell us that the late Grand Master was Pro Nazi and travelled the Fatherland (http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/imt/document/003-ps.htm) in order to better educate the King about National Socialism, so as to allow the Empire to "come to an understanding" (http://www.bigelowconsulting.com/CRAweb/essay13.htm) with The New World Order, European Occultist's latest 'Great Work'. Go figure.

[luciferhorus]

Historians tell us that the late Grand Master was Pro Nazi and travelled the Fatherland in order to better educate the King about National Socialism,

Yes you have a pro-Nazi Grand Master in England who recognised the pro-Nazi regular lodges in Germany which did not have a Jewish membership but not the 'non-regular' lodges which did have a Jewish membership. So when Theolonious refers to the German regular lodge members as ex-Masons, he is entirely contradicting the position taken by the Grand Master of English Freemasonry of that age.

Lux

[boots]

Yes you have a pro-Nazi Grand Master in England who recognised the pro-Nazi regular lodges in Germany which did not have a Jewish membership but not the 'non-regular' lodges which did have a Jewish membership. So when Theolonious refers to the German regular lodge members as ex-Masons, he is entirely contradicting the position taken by the Grand Master of English Freemasonry of that age.

Lux


Its not a good position for thelonious to be in, is it?

Thats what can happen with those that follow blindly the ideals of masonry, with out seeing the hidden agenda that flows though all of them.

[luciferhorus]

Its not a good position for thelonious to be in, is it?

Thats what can happen with those that follow blindly the ideals of masonry, with out seeing the hidden agenda that flows though all of them.

I think that in the age of the Internet, mass education and mass literacy that there can be few Masons who are unaware of the committment of their masters to militant, evangelical World Capitalist Revolution, a global police state and the economic enslavement of humanity under Capital.

If you bow down and worship the masonic masters, you may receive the freedom of the kingdoms of the world which wealth brings you in return for your soul; Capital is the key to the Devil's bribery.

However, Boots, I see no point in simply showering our Masonic bretheren with abuse and prefer to offer them the respect that two opposing philosophers give each other in a debate; it is entirely fair to attack them and their cult, but merely showering them with ad hominems does not constitute an intelligent argument and it rather 'brings down' the discussion; they are after all rather educated and intelligent and at least willing to engage their opponents.

LL

Lux

[boots]

I think that in the age of the Internet, mass education and mass literacy that there can be few Masons who are unaware of the committment of their masters to militant, evangelical World Capitalist Revolution, a global police state and the economic enslavement of humanity under Capital.

If you bow down and worship the masonic masters, you may receive the freedom of the kingdoms of the world which wealth brings you in return for your soul; Capital is the key to the Devil's bribery.

However, Boots, I see no point in simply showering our Masonic bretheren with abuse and prefer to offer them the respect that two opposing philosophers give each other in a debate; it is entirely fair to attack them and their cult, but merely showering them with ad hominems does not constitute an intelligent argument and it rather 'brings down' the discussion; they are after all rather educated and intelligent and at least willing to engage their opponents.

LL

Lux

Yeah i get your point Lux,

But when does banging your head against a brick wall begin to hurt?

And when does intelligent debate, ultimately become a battle of will's?? That leads to nowhere?

I applaud you for following your own brand of philosophy, regarding ":capitalism" and "communism" but for me it's both sides of a coin. All I see it as is a learning experience to infinite consciousness or a realization of oneness.

.

[luciferhorus]

Yeah i get your point Lux,

But when does banging your head against a brick wall begin to hurt?

And when does intelligent debate, ultimately become a battle of will's??

.

When these debates end and apocalyptic war begins.

.
That leads to nowhere?

I applaud you for following your own brand of philosophy, regarding ":capitalism" and "communism" but for me it's both sides of a coin. All I see it as is a learning experience to infinite consciousness or a realization of oneness.

.

If an economic slave is 'spiritually aware' and educated, they are still a slave; humanity has a choice of Non-Capitalism or Capitalism; with Capitalism there will always be economic slaves and masters.

LL

Lux

[mike martin]

Whats the matter mikey boy? Take one paragraph out of the post and focus on that, because the rest of it you cannot refute???
Actually having an IQ higher than 80 I get V. bored with his cartoons.

:rolleyes:

Weak!
I couldn't find the smiley I wanted to use for you.

[/B][/SIZE][/FONT][/B]"Hitler did make one exception, however; his 1942 law banning secret societies and confiscating their assets specifically exempted the "old Prussian" Freemason lodges. This group followed the Nazi racial purity ideal far more closely than the "humanitarian Freemasonry" (as the Angeberts distinguish the different streams) and shared Hitler's disdain for the other branches of Freemasons, not to mention for the Jews as well. (p.157)"

- Hannah Newman
'The Rainbow Swastika'
Excellent Ms Newman's source is?

A fantastic statement as here http://www.freemasonrywatch.org/attitude.html it clearlys states that:

The three Old Prussian Grand Lodges - or German-Christian Orders - were compelled to dissolve, July 16th, 1935. The Dresden and Leipzig Grand Lodges after having also adopted German Christian Orders' names, had to do the same, August 10th, 1935 (Neuberger, vol. II, pp. 101).

I take it that whoever puts the page together doesn't actually read the content, how else can there be such a glaring conflict of information on the same page?

Mike

[mike martin]

These so called ex-Masons are simply ex-Masons by your own private and personal defintion;
I have to agree.
as I understand the situation, their cult was considered 'regular Masonry' and recognised by the United Grand Lodge of England (UGLE),
You misunderstand, the "alliance" of German Grand Lodges (it included the 3 Old Prussian ones) was recognised as a whole and had been since 1872. However, when war broke out, relations were suspended with all of the German Grand Lodges.

whose Grand Master, the late Duke of Kent was a known Nazi sympathiser.
Can't get away from that! What a good job that Freemasonry doesn't push politics amongst its members. Just think if he actually could have done, we would probably all be living under the jack boot today.

The majority of the Masons persecuted in Germany appear to have been non-regular Masons
No they were the specifically non-Christian, non-nationalist Grand Lodges that operated under the "alliance" until the "Prussians" withdrew from it in 1922.

and were of a similar ilk to the Grand Secretary's cult which is also not recognised by UGLE,
Hopefully reading the above will help you to see the difference.

Mike

[watson_k]

I applaud you for following your own brand of philosophy, regarding ":capitalism" and "communism" but for me it's both sides of a coin. All I see it as is a learning experience to infinite consciousness or a realization of oneness.


Please don't take this the wrong way boots. I never expected you to say something so enlightening. That really is a very wise point you made there.

[eternal_spirit]

Looks like a Freemason's site read the rest here


http://www.themasonictrowel.com/books/the_hidden_powe_behind_freemasonry/files/chapter_18.htmIt appears as though we have strayed a bit "a field" in our major purpose of showing the "hidden power" behind Freemasonry. Here are a few more facts which you may find interesting and of importance in understanding the problems we face.
1.- The masonic coat-of-arms which is still used by the Grand Orient Lodges of England and Europe was Jewish designed.
2.- Some of the most important legends of Freemasonry come from Jewish sources. The legend of Hiram Abiff, for instance, on which Freemasonry is founded and on which many of its rites are based, is of Jewish origin.
3.- The technical language, symbolism and rites of Freemasonry are full of Jewish ideas and terms. In the Scottish Rite, the dates of all official documents are given according to the Hebrew months and the Jewish era: and use is often made of the older Hebrew alphabet. (See the JEWISH ENCYCLOPEDIA, under "Freemasonry," Vol. 5, p.503.
It may be of interest to note that it was Jews who introduced Freemasonry to the United States and who became a powerful force in American Freemasonry, (See Joudin, "Les Fideles De La Centre-Eglkise Macons, "pp. 37-45. Full documentation is given here).
The Masonic rite of MIZRAIN, with at least 90 degrees, is perhaps the most esoteric and elaborate rite in all of Masonry. It was founded by Jews, as was the order of B'nai B'rith (Sons of the Alliance), which is an all-Jewish Lodge and the father of the infamous Anti-Defamation League.
The order of MIZRAIN is found mainly among the European Lodges, some of which are exclusively Jewish. The B'nai B'rith is mainly an American Jewish Lodge, although some do not formally recognize it as being Masonic. But its organization, intimate alliance with, and its intimate objects are the same as in Masonry. In the German Masonic Review LATONIA, Feb. 28, 1928, the lodges of B'nai B'rith were explicitly referred to as being Masonic, in fact they were recognized as being the controlling Masonic power in Germany.
In the JEWISH CHRONICLE, Oct. 19, 1889, you can find these remarks on pp. 77, 78: "Masonry tolerates everything except a clericalism (Catholicism) and it possesses a special attraction for Jews. Clericalism has always persecuted Masonry everywhere. There exists between Jews and Freemasons an invisible but potent natural alliance against a common enemy... Together they fight ... against religious fanaticism and racial antipathies."
Much of the present day liberalism in politics, which encourages interracial marriages; laws which discriminate against whites in employment, etc., are promulgated by legislators who are Freemasons. It is all part of their heritage as Lodge members. It might be of further interest to note, that the International Bankers who dominate international finance and who were responsible for the Federal Reserve Act of 1913, which now controls American economics, were Jewish Masons.
In a remarkable study, done over a hundred years ago, a French writer, Gougenot de Mousseauz, collected large numbers of documents which proved beyond the shadow of a doubt, that Jews ran the inner circles of Freemasonry in Europe. On pg. 340 of his book LEJUIF, LAJUDAISME. el la Judaisarion des Peoyles Chretiens, published in Paris in 1869, he said: "The real chiefs of this immense association (Freemasonry) are mostly Jews, and live in close and intimate relationship with the militant members of Judaism, those namely, who are leaders of the Cabalist section. This is known to only an intimate few in Masonry."
M. Daniel, another Frenchwriter, quotes from Mons Barbier's INFILTRATIONS MACONIQUES, p.99: "I have often heard French Masons lament the dominance of Jews... Ever since the revolution, Jews have taken possession of Masonic rites. The Cabala rules its mistress in the inner-circle of the Lodge and the Jewish spirit dominates the lower grades... In the mind of Satan, the synagogue has an all-important part to play... The greatest enemy counts on the Jews to control Masonry, as he counts on Masonry to destroy the Christian faith."
So, as you can see, the infiltration of Masonry by Judaists, is not something which has happened just recently. The professed aims of the UNIVERSAL ISRAELITE ALLIANCE, founded in 1860, with its headquarters in Paris, runs parallel to the professed aims of Freemasonry and its founder, the Jew Adolf Cremeieux. For years he was the Grand Master of the Supreme Council of the Ancient Scottish Rite of Freemasonry. (For a list of the governing committees of this Jewish Alliance, see THE JEWISH WHO's WHO, published in New York City)
In France, the Jews were refranchised in 1790, under the influence of the Jacobins, who were the most AGGRESSIVE AND MILITANT OF THE ANTI-CHRIST FORCES which plagued France at this time. Since then, with the possible exception of the early Napoleonic era, Masonic Jews and Masonic societies have dominated the public and political life of France. Today, Christian Countries such as Canada, Germany, England, the United States, Australia, Sweden, Norway, etc., have fallen under an almost complete Judeo-Masonic yoke.
While most Masons will aggressively deny this, the anti-Christian character of Freemasonry is kept in the dark, and the inner circles of the Lodge are defended with fanaticism.

[eternal_spirit]

Looks like a Freemason's site read the rest here (well you could have done lastnight, wish I had of now! but the page has gone and there is no archive/index) A cover up?

[thelonious]

So when Theolonious refers to the German regular lodge members as ex-Masons, he is entirely contradicting the position taken by the Grand Master of English Freemasonry of that age.



You are now simply repeating the erroneous information given by the Jesuits on their "Freemasonry Watch" website. The Grand Lodge of England began recognizing Jews as Masons since Anderson's Constitutions of 1724, and the regular continental lodges followed suit.

[catfood]

Interesting documentary on the occult side of the Nazi movement.

Persecution of Freemasonry. second half 10,23 in.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4360800110742625275&ei=qTgdSr_VBNaF-Abq4ayJAg&q=Nazis%3A+The+Occult+Conspiracy+

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3797889292300937848&ei=qTgdSr_VBNaF-Abq4ayJAg&q=Nazis%3A+The+Occult+Conspiracy+

[watson_k]

You are now simply repeating the erroneous information given by the Jesuits on their "Freemasonry Watch" website. The Grand Lodge of England began recognizing Jews as Masons since Anderson's Constitutions of 1724, and the regular continental lodges followed suit.

I find that funny. They recognized Jews as Masons before Lionel Rothschild became the first Jew to join the House of Lords.

[luciferhorus]

Interesting documentary on the occult side of the Nazi movement.

Persecution of Freemasonry. second half 10,23 in.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4360800110742625275&ei=qTgdSr_VBNaF-Abq4ayJAg&q=Nazis%3A+The+Occult+Conspiracy+

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3797889292300937848&ei=qTgdSr_VBNaF-Abq4ayJAg&q=Nazis%3A+The+Occult+Conspiracy+


Yes they are excellent videos which I watched some years ago; Nazism is essentially a syncretism of the best and the worst aspects of traditional Germanic spirituality with Neo-Hinduism; the Nazis are mostly marginalised now in Europe but in India Hinduism remains supreme, though much resisted by the Indian Communists, humanists and Buddhists, yet like Nazism it remains a religous justification for racism, classism and in previous ages for human sacrifice cultism; however this Germanic / Aryan racist philosophy has always been an undercurrent within European and American Christianity, which bears fruit in economic imperialism and the continued belief in the racial superiority of Europeans over the enslaved masses.


LL

Lux

[diamond dogs]

I didn't rate the vids too much uncanny resemblance to the guy in the vid and Von Braun in later life .. I know someone that died recently and it was mentioned at his funeral that he worked with Von Braun on the V2 project and he was a Freemason in Germany before moving to England after the war.

I could never find out what he did for a living but never short of money..


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/54/19700202-wernher-von-braun-nasa.jpg

Hhmmm

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/65/Bundesarchiv_Bild_146-1978-Anh.024-03%2C_Peenem%C3%BCnde%2C_Dornberger%2C_Olbricht%2C _Leeb%2C_v._Braun.jpg

[sofa king]

Why would the Scottish rite have it's beginnings in France and not Scotland? Or at least on the British Isles if it's called Scottish Rite?



aside from any Templar mythos, the connection is the Scottish Stuarts that fled when the Hanoverian monarchs took hold of England.

The Stuarts were friends and benefactors to the Freemasons and vice versa.

The Stuarts took Freemasonry with them to France.

Also keep in mind that Scotland and France have tremendous social, political and cultural ties going back many centuries. Mutual dislike of England will do that.

[dawnismygoddess]

...Freemasonry is not a cult...

I suppose Mormonism isn't a cult either, right?

[lightindarkness]

I suppose Mormonism isn't a cult either, right?

Nope, not a cult. Mormonism is a religion.

Freemasonry is a fraternity.

Conspiracy theorist's love throwing around 'cult' as a adjective for anything they don't care to research, but using the term really just shows their own ignorance.

A cult is a religious belief system centered around a charismatic leader. The dogma is tied to the life of the leader - when the leader goes away, the cult perishes. Let us observe the differences, shall we?

The People's Temple was a cult. The entire thing revolved around a belief system centered on Jim Jones. When Jim Jones died and killed many other followers with him, the movement vanished.

Christianity was a cult when Jesus was alive and a religion when it continued to operate after his death. Mormonism was a cult when Joseph Smith was alive and a religion when it continued to operate after his death.

Freemasonry, having no charismatic leader no religious belief system, fits neither the definition of cult nor a religion.

These are the facts. This is the truth. And no amount of conspiracy propaganda by those who so desperately need to lie about freemasonry will change these facts.

[luciferhorus]

You are now simply repeating the erroneous information given by the Jesuits on their "Freemasonry Watch" website. The Grand Lodge of England began recognizing Jews as Masons since Anderson's Constitutions of 1724, and the regular continental lodges followed suit.


The "late" Grand Master of English Masonry was a known Nazi sympathiser; certainly the "Freemasonry Watch" is run by a known collaborator with the Roman cult (who were themselves Nazi collaborators); however this does not change the facts. In order to dispute the facts, you would have to offer historical evidence that the "late" Duke of Kent, the former cult leader and Grand Master of the English Masonic cult was "not" a Nazi sympathiser.

LL

Lux

[decim]

Papist masons? More B.S. from the man from DFS, (Hurry sale ends May 1st 2017)

A Jacobite Gazetteer - The Vatican

Tomb of the Stuart Kings (http://www.jacobite.ca/gazetteer/Vatican/Stuart_tomb.htm)


In 1766 the body of King James III and VIII was laid to rest in the crypt of St. Peter's Basilica. On July 16, 1807, the bodies of King Henry IX and I and King Charles III were laid beside it, that of Charles III having been brought from Frascati where it had reposed since 1788. Three separate tombstones were erected on the site.

Until 1938 the bodies of the three Stuart kings were buried where the tomb of Pope Pius XI now stands. This is on the left side of the crypt towards the front; it is immediately to the right as one enters from the stairwell leading down from the basilica.



aside from any Templar mythos, the connection is the Scottish Stuarts that fled when the Hanoverian monarchs took hold of England.

The Stuarts were friends and benefactors to the Freemasons and vice versa.

The Stuarts took Freemasonry with them to France.

Also keep in mind that Scotland and France have tremendous social, political and cultural ties going back many centuries. Mutual dislike of England will do that.