Britain's Estates 'Social Concentration Camps'

[nofuture]

Millions of people have been condemned to live under "social apartheid" by 30 years of poor housing policies, a damning report on council estates will say this week.


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/britains-estates-are-social-concentration-camps-1678127.html

[grannymoose]

I'll agree to this.
Just a 30 minute drive around this city and you can see this.
Run down areas where crime is high along side teenage pregnancy and unemployment rockets, then across the road there's the better off people, better houses it's like they have more space to live in, schools are good and the streets are quite.
When your in these areas you know straight away that it's not a nice place to be.
The tram runs straight through them also, you can get on at the start and see the type of people getting on them to a point where you sure notice not only through the windows where you are but the difference in people getting on at these stops.

[unusual_suspect]

I'll agree to this.
Just a 30 minute drive around this city and you can see this.
Run down areas where crime is high along side teenage pregnancy and unemployment rockets, then across the road there's the better off people, better houses it's like they have more space to live in, schools are good and the streets are quite.
When your in these areas you know straight away that it's not a nice place to be.
The tram runs straight through them also, you can get on at the start and see the type of people getting on them to a point where you sure notice not only through the windows where you are but the difference in people getting on at these stops.

I agree with this totally, I've moved to the country now, but in the town I just moved from some areas were like ghettos.

It's awful that people can't get jobs because they are discriminated against because of where they live, I didn't know that even happened. Maybe I have lived a sheltered life. I don't think social mobility is in the interests of tptb, it never was. It is interesting that the Fabian society are mentioning this article, I always suspected they were the people behind the likes of Common Purpose.

[armoured_amazon]

Choice. People have a choice. Our family didn't stay on the council estate, we moved out.

[unusual_suspect]

Choice. People have a choice. Our family didn't stay on the council estate, we moved out.

You are right, when I had my son I was a single mum, claiming benefits and living in a council flat in a tower block. I went back to Uni, got a job, I now work at home and live in a beautiful forest.

Many people don't escape the trap though, it takes a lot of focus and hard work to get out.

[armoured_amazon]

You are right, when I had my son I was a single mum, claiming benefits and living in a council flat in a tower block. I went back to Uni, got a job, I now work at home and live in a beautiful forest.

Many people don't escape the trap though, it takes a lot of focus and hard work to get out.

Totally. It's like that comfy chair in Monty Python - people become comfortable with their situation, however difficult it is, and thus, remain. My mum was a single parent, working as a nurse and attending night school to get qualifications, so we could move and I could get a decent education. :)

[lynfowars]

Choice. People have a choice. Our family didn't stay on the council estate, we moved out.

Okay, humour me.

Without money -how do they 'move out'?

[armoured_amazon]

Okay, humour me.

Without money -how do they 'move out'?

Like I said, we did it on a single parent income, three kids, living in a rented flat. I have neither time nor inclination to convince you of something that we, and others, made possible.

[unusual_suspect]

Okay, humour me.

Without money -how do they 'move out'?

Well I managed it too, it is possible to get a job and save money even when you are a single parent and don't have much spare.

Also the housing charity Shelter and local councils also run a deposit scheme so that families on benefits or low incomes can choose somewhere to rent privately.

armoured amazon is right when she says that people get comfortable in difficult situations. Idk, maybe some people also lack the confidence or motivation to change their situation. Maybe some people accept their situation as their lot in life so that's all they will get.

[nofuture]

I'm not sure if everyone who wanted to could get out if they so desired.

Smacks of social engineering to me.

But feel free to kick those already in the gutter.

[white horse]

Choice. People have a choice. Our family didn't stay on the council estate, we moved out.

You are right, but most people don't actually realise they do have a choice; they have been conditioned to accept certain thngs as immutable (like low social class/poverty) and exist in a prison of their own making, that is reinforced by constant 'programming'.

[disorder2k8]

some people are just lazy, the 'I cant be bovvered' generation

[unusual_suspect]

I'm not sure if everyone who wanted to could get out if they so desired.

Smacks of social engineering to me.

But feel free to kick those already in the gutter.

Who's kicking anyone? We are just talking from our personal experiences of this social engineering and discussing why some people stay stuck in this trap and why some people don't.

I didn't stay where I was, but that is only because of the choices I made. I could just as easily have made other choices and still be stuck in the same shitty tower block with the scag heads and care in the community cases (there were also nice people too), I could have had more children and carried on living on benefits.

Some people I know who lived there are still there. I do agree with you though, I don't think it is possible for everyone to get out.

[bobhodge]

poor people deserve this because they are smelly and gross. they should go one step further and ban them from leaving their 'camps'.

[kerbnix]

Unusual_suspect and armoured amazon - Fuck you two.

Pat on the back for getting off the estates and all that, but fuck you for condeming everyone with lazyness. You ever thought that maybe people arent/weren't in the same situations as you?

How do you make choices when your situation doesnt allow you? I got off the estate 3 years ago after about 17 years there. I watched my friends fall all around me during that time, for various reasons. I stayed on MY right path and got off the estate, but still go there all the time running youth groups for the kids and practising sports.

It's probably a good thing you guys got off the estates, you obviously dont belong there and your attitudes wouldnt be tolerated for a second.

[unusual_suspect]

poor people deserve this because they are smelly and gross. they should go one step further and ban them from leaving their 'camps'.

Well unfortunately there are plenty of fuckwitts in the UK who share that sentiment and I hope they loose their homes and all their money to the crunchy credit and have to shop at nettos. I hope the blokes have to either take a minimum wage job, or try to take care of their family on the benefits they recieve. I hope the women have to go without getting their nails done, wear ill fitting polyester clothes they have bought off the market and get fat from watching day time tv and eating nettos biscuits all day.

I hope their kids end up being disruptive at scool and that they get really embarrassed, ha ha, it would serv them right the stuck up bastards, then they might see that no one is any better than anyone else...we all piss the same way :p

Only joking!

[disorder2k8]

when moving on a lot of people seem to just turn their backs on these people, except for certain individuals

[unusual_suspect]

Unusual_suspect and armoured amazon - Fuck you two.

Pat on the back for getting off the estates and all that, but fuck you for condeming everyone with lazyness. You ever thought that maybe people arent/weren't in the same situations as you?

How do you make choices when your situation doesnt allow you? I got off the estate 3 years ago after about 17 years there. I watched my friends fall all around me during that time, for various reasons. I stayed on MY right path and got off the estate, but still go there all the time running youth groups for the kids and practising sports.

It's probably a good thing you guys got off the estates, you obviously dont belong there and your attitudes wouldnt be tolerated for a second.

Well fuck you too you ignorant shit. If you bothered reading my posts or armoured amazons you would see that no one called anyone lazy.

[armoured_amazon]

Unusual_suspect and armoured amazon - Fuck you two.

Pat on the back for getting off the estates and all that, but fuck you for condeming everyone with lazyness. You ever thought that maybe people arent/weren't in the same situations as you?

How do you make choices when your situation doesnt allow you? I got off the estate 3 years ago after about 17 years there. I watched my friends fall all around me during that time, for various reasons. I stayed on MY right path and got off the estate, but still go there all the time running youth groups for the kids and practising sports.

It's probably a good thing you guys got off the estates, you obviously dont belong there and your attitudes wouldnt be tolerated for a second.

Bwahaha, is that chip heavy on your shoulder?

[brassneck69]

Unusual_suspect and armoured amazon - Fuck you two.

Pat on the back for getting off the estates and all that, but fuck you for condeming everyone with lazyness. You ever thought that maybe people arent/weren't in the same situations as you?

How do you make choices when your situation doesnt allow you? I got off the estate 3 years ago after about 17 years there. I watched my friends fall all around me during that time, for various reasons. I stayed on MY right path and got off the estate, but still go there all the time running youth groups for the kids and practising sports.

It's probably a good thing you guys got off the estates, you obviously dont belong there and your attitudes wouldnt be tolerated for a second.

Its called work, simple.

I grew up on 2 estates with a single mother, 2 sisters (older) and fuck all. Both the estates were at one time or another voted most crime ridden etc etc etc. (Ford and Noctorum if anyone knows them).

My 3 close friends turned out to be a drug dealer, a mass rapist and (aged 11) a murderer. Ive seen things i wouldnt wish on my enemies go on in dark places on these estates.
And the bottom line is i wanted out.

So i worked, pure and simple.
I dont care WHAT or WHO you are, work. Get off your fat lazy ass and work. I never had a serious relationship until i was 25, im not some college or uni educated guy either, i was begging for food from 12 to 15 till i got my first job working nights, cash in hand, whilst still attending school in the day. I just threw myself into it, i had to. Then suddenly i hit 25, think fuck me wheres that gone, but hang on i can do this now, so i did. I moved into a private bungalow in a private lane (rented) and then decided to work a bit harder to gain more.

Thats the choice EVERYONE has, regardless of background, disability etc etc etc. its a CHOICE.

But the problem stems from 2 things:

1. poxy do-gooders telling people they can claim for this, "entitled" to that and they should be getting this as well. So the incentive has gone to actually drag their fat sorry arses away from the telly and achieve something for themselves and their family.

2. Lazy, same reason as above.

Why work hard when they can sit round, drinking cheap beer, fucking each others girlfriend?

I have friends whose only ambition in life is to get "their own" council house on the same street as their family. Then they think they've cracked life.

I still dont have many qualifications, im 40, and ive pretty much made my own living for the last 25 years, i still work for myself.

And fuck me what a cushy life i now have, so much so all those years of not pissing up the wall on a fri/sat night has put me in a little comfort zone now where i can sit back and slow down, yet mates of mine are still drinking the cheap beer etc etc etc.

Work. Choice. Simple.

[brainfreeze]

Its called work, simple.

I grew up on 2 estates with a single mother, 2 sisters (older) and fuck all. Both the estates were at one time or another voted most crime ridden etc etc etc. (Ford and Noctorum if anyone knows them).

My 3 close friends turned out to be a drug dealer, a mass rapist and (aged 11) a murderer. Ive seen things i wouldnt wish on my enemies go on in dark places on these estates.
And the bottom line is i wanted out.

So i worked, pure and simple.
I dont care WHAT or WHO you are, work. Get off your fat lazy ass and work. I never had a serious relationship until i was 25, im not some college or uni educated guy either, i was begging for food from 12 to 15 till i got my first job working nights, cash in hand, whilst still attending school in the day. I just threw myself into it, i had to. Then suddenly i hit 25, think fuck me wheres that gone, but hang on i can do this now, so i did. I moved into a private bungalow in a private lane (rented) and then decided to work a bit harder to gain more.

Thats the choice EVERYONE has, regardless of background, disability etc etc etc. its a CHOICE.

But the problem stems from 2 things:

1. poxy do-gooders telling people they can claim for this, "entitled" to that and they should be getting this as well. So the incentive has gone to actually drag their fat sorry arses away from the telly and achieve something for themselves and their family.

2. Lazy, same reason as above.

Why work hard when they can sit round, drinking cheap beer, fucking each others girlfriend?

I have friends whose only ambition in life is to get "their own" council house on the same street as their family. Then they think they've cracked life.

I still dont have many qualifications, im 40, and ive pretty much made my own living for the last 25 years, i still work for myself.

And fuck me what a cushy life i now have, so much so all those years of not pissing up the wall on a fri/sat night has put me in a little comfort zone now where i can sit back and slow down, yet mates of mine are still drinking the cheap beer etc etc etc.

Work. Choice. Simple.

Boo is that you?

My boyfriend is a bit of East End rough done very well for himself. Not bad for a lad who left school to pump gas to help his mum out.

He gave a talk last week where he was asked what motivated him.

His answer?

POVERTY.

You'd think that enough to motivate anybody. But apparently not. I don't get that mindset.

[armoured_amazon]

Its called work, simple.

I grew up on 2 estates with a single mother, 2 sisters (older) and fuck all. Both the estates were at one time or another voted most crime ridden etc etc etc. (Ford and Noctorum if anyone knows them).

My 3 close friends turned out to be a drug dealer, a mass rapist and (aged 11) a murderer. Ive seen things i wouldnt wish on my enemies go on in dark places on these estates.
And the bottom line is i wanted out.

So i worked, pure and simple.
I dont care WHAT or WHO you are, work. Get off your fat lazy ass and work. I never had a serious relationship until i was 25, im not some college or uni educated guy either, i was begging for food from 12 to 15 till i got my first job working nights, cash in hand, whilst still attending school in the day. I just threw myself into it, i had to. Then suddenly i hit 25, think fuck me wheres that gone, but hang on i can do this now, so i did. I moved into a private bungalow in a private lane (rented) and then decided to work a bit harder to gain more.

Thats the choice EVERYONE has, regardless of background, disability etc etc etc. its a CHOICE.

But the problem stems from 2 things:

1. poxy do-gooders telling people they can claim for this, "entitled" to that and they should be getting this as well. So the incentive has gone to actually drag their fat sorry arses away from the telly and achieve something for themselves and their family.

2. Lazy, same reason as above.

Why work hard when they can sit round, drinking cheap beer, fucking each others girlfriend?

I have friends whose only ambition in life is to get "their own" council house on the same street as their family. Then they think they've cracked life.

I still dont have many qualifications, im 40, and ive pretty much made my own living for the last 25 years, i still work for myself.

And fuck me what a cushy life i now have, so much so all those years of not pissing up the wall on a fri/sat night has put me in a little comfort zone now where i can sit back and slow down, yet mates of mine are still drinking the cheap beer etc etc etc.

Work. Choice. Simple.

Amen, brah. Ford and Noctorum, know 'em well (I'm in Liverpool, lived in Wirral for a while, too). ;)

[lynfowars]

I'm not sure if everyone who wanted to could get out if they so desired.

Smacks of social engineering to me.

But feel free to kick those already in the gutter.

Yes, ther are f.o.s.

They claim they worked a miracle, yet "..don't have the time or inclination.." to say how.

Such selfishness, glad you're not my neighbours...

[nofuture]

People who can work and don't, no problem with clamping down on them.

But the people in poverty can be there for a variety of reasons, we're talking about the mentally ill, people of low intelligence, social misfits etc etc, those people shouldn't be lumped in with the work-shy.

[armoured_amazon]

Yes, ther are f.o.s.

They claim they worked a miracle, yet "..don't have the time or inclination.." to say how.

Such selfishness, glad you're not my neighbours...

Hardly a miracle, merely a choice and hard work on my mother's part. A bitter attitude doesn't suit, btw.

[monkeyboy]

so are you you saying the only way forward in a broken system like ours is to join it? it didn`t do my family any good they have all worked for Generations and my grandfather took great pride in being the only one in his family to buy his house.which they had to sell in the eightys as they were retired. with a private pension to live on.inflation sharp took care of that. i myself started work at 13 and left school at 15 i am now 37 I.T Technician i have a car,flat,the usual bollocks but when i take stock am i any better off? i have just been made unemployed and i have noticed a improvement in my life i now spend a lot more time with family and friends and making new ones like you guy`s n girl`s. it has also given me a lot of perspective on life. so to sum up maybe those people on council estates me being one of them may just have a different point of view as to what life is all about.:p

[armoured_amazon]

so are you you saying the only way forward in a broken system like ours is to join it? it didn`t do my family any good they have all worked for Generations and my grandfather took great pride in being the only one in his family to buy his house.which they had to sell in the eightys as they were retired. with a private pension to live on.inflation sharp took care of that. i myself started work at 13 and left school at 15 i am now 37 I.T Technician i have a car,flat,the usual bollocks but when i take stock am i any better off? i have just been made unemployed and i have noticed a improvement in my life i now spend a lot more time with family and friends and making new ones like you guy`s n girl`s. it has also given me a lot of perspective on life. so to sum up maybe those people on council estates me being one of them may just have a different point of view as to what life is all about.:p

Each to their own. For me, moving out enabled me to pursue my musical interests, go to a good school and mix in varied circles. I wouldn't have been able to do that outside the catchment area. Every single person I still know from the old days still lives in the area, has a couple of kids and a crappy job they hate, listens to the same music, has the same routine, and is a creature of habit in a community where everyone knows everyone's business. That life would drive me crazy.

I can speak of the estate I grew up on and none can change my opinion.

But like I said, each to their own.

[monkeyboy]

Each to their own. For me, moving out enabled me to pursue my musical interests, go to a good school and mix in varied circles. I wouldn't have been able to do that outside the catchment area. Every single person I still know from the old days still lives in the area, has a couple of kids and a crappy job they hate, listens to the same music, has the same routine, and is a creature of habit in a community where everyone knows everyone's business. That life would drive me crazy.

I can speak of the estate I grew up on and none can change my opinion.

But like I said, each to their own.

i agree to a point.
but you didn`t answer my first question. so are you you saying the only way forward in a broken system like ours is to join it?
and also why should you have to move to do the things you enjoy? "pursue my musical interests, go to a good school and mix in varied circles"
i`m not picking at nits just interested to hear your oppinion.:)

[jiffy]

This thread is yet another sad indictment as to where society has gone.

I love the American dream physiology, I did it with ALL MY HARD WORK....SO CAN ANYONE!

No luck involved what so ever, you weren't gifted with the ability and drive to succeed.
One can't help but wonder if things go wrong for you, you are as quick to blame yourself, or was it "hard" luck and things out of your control.

Nothing like people that need to measure their success in life by having to compare themselves with others!! (Funny how they always look down) :rolleyes:

Life's journey has nothing to do with property, careers, or materialistic value, sadly some only realize this when death is either imminent or cast a very dark shadow.

You keeping patting yourselves on the back, on how well you are doing.:rolleyes:

While the more enlightened amongst us continue on our "Personal" journey of wisdom, love and spirituality;)

[brainfreeze]

This thread is yet another sad indictment as to where society has gone.

I love the American dream physiology, I did it with ALL MY HARD WORK....SO CAN ANYONE!

No luck involved what so ever, you weren't gifted with the ability and drive to succeed.
One can't help but wonder if things go wrong for you, you are as quick to blame yourself, or was it "hard" luck and things out of your control.

Nothing like people that need to measure their success in life by having to compare themselves with others!! (Funny how they always look down) :rolleyes:

Life's journey has nothing to do with property, careers, or materialistic value, sadly some only realize this when death is either imminent or cast a very dark shadow.

You keeping patting yourselves on the back, on how well you are doing.:rolleyes:

While the more enlightened amongst us continue on our "Personal" journey of wisdom, love and spirituality;)

Are you saying that those who have property, careers and materialistic luxury are spiritually stunted?

Does one have to be materialiscly poor, like Mother Therasa for spiritual growth?

Is that what you mean by this post?

[kerbnix]

Why work hard when they can sit round, drinking cheap beer, fucking each others girlfriend?

Ah the good old days.


For me, moving out enabled me to pursue my musical interests, go to a good school and mix in varied circles.

Suppose it takes a special sort of person such as myself to stay on an estate and do all that. Oh wait, no it doesnt. My parents have lived on estates their whole lives, I've had a normal life, I have a proper career and I dont feel the need to brag about it, or spout retarded opinions about it to others.

Thats the choice EVERYONE has, regardless of background, disability etc etc etc. its a CHOICE.

Sure, because my 8 year old friend could make the choice to move away from his addict mother. Did he have a choice when she dragged him out of school at 10 to do the housework and shopping whilst she smoked drugs. Was he able to make a rational-adult decision when he quit school at 13 to sell drugs to keep a roof over his and his mothers head?

Here's a real simple solution to this flame thread: Dont assume that everyone has the same mindset as yourself. The only person that thinks like you, is YOU. Dont worry about other peoples shit, especially when your worrying comes from (or may come from) speculation, embellishment and conjecture.

I think a lot of you could do with a good read of some ingo swann especially about reality boxes.

[armoured_amazon]

i agree to a point.
but you didn`t answer my first question. so are you you saying the only way forward in a broken system like ours is to join it?
and also why should you have to move to do the things you enjoy? "pursue my musical interests, go to a good school and mix in varied circles"
i`m not picking at nits just interested to hear your oppinion.:)

The school I went to, that was heavily invested in music, was in a different area, and only accepted pupils in the neighbourhood catchment area. When I was off playing with different orchestras, old friends on the estate and neighbouring estates were huffing aerosols and sniffing glue (one died, age 11). If I had not had my extra-curricular activities nurtured, I could have gone down the same route. My interests in the arts was ridiculed by those in my old neighbourhood who deemed it 'uncool'. I imagine some people - particularly living in that environment for an extended period - would accept the social bars put around them and cave in to peer pressure. A common problem in the UK is people don't like to see other people succeed.

[armoured_amazon]

Ah the good old days.



Suppose it takes a special sort of person such as myself to stay on an estate and do all that. Oh wait, no it doesnt. My parents have lived on estates their whole lives, I've had a normal life, I have a proper career and I dont feel the need to brag about it, or spout retarded opinions about it to others.



Sure, because my 8 year old friend could make the choice to move away from his addict mother. Did he have a choice when she dragged him out of school at 10 to do the housework and shopping whilst she smoked drugs. Was he able to make a rational-adult decision when he quit school at 13 to sell drugs to keep a roof over his and his mothers head?

Here's a real simple solution to this flame thread: Dont assume that everyone has the same mindset as yourself. The only person that thinks like you, is YOU. Dont worry about other peoples shit, especially when your worrying comes from (or may come from) speculation, embellishment and conjecture.

I think a lot of you could do with a good read of some ingo swann especially about reality boxes.

What did your friend do when he reached adulthood?

[kweli]

This thread is yet another sad indictment as to where society has gone.

I love the American dream physiology, I did it with ALL MY HARD WORK....SO CAN ANYONE!

No luck involved what so ever, you weren't gifted with the ability and drive to succeed.
One can't help but wonder if things go wrong for you, you are as quick to blame yourself, or was it "hard" luck and things out of your control.

Nothing like people that need to measure their success in life by having to compare themselves with others!! (Funny how they always look down) :rolleyes:

Life's journey has nothing to do with property, careers, or materialistic value, sadly some only realize this when death is either imminent or cast a very dark shadow.

You keeping patting yourselves on the back, on how well you are doing.:rolleyes:

While the more enlightened amongst us continue on our "Personal" journey of wisdom, love and spirituality;)

Thanks, i totally agree.

Wow! at the snobbery, ignorance & arrogance of some posters on this thread.
it's pretty obvious you follow the msm 'shameless' portrayal of council estates. Not all council estates are 'sink estates' i know of several very well kempt and respectable neighbourhoods, i also have many family members living on such estates - all wonderful, hard grafting, respectable people.

They want rid of these neighbourhoods because the community spirit and bonds are so much stronger than other areas; generations of families & neighbours sticking together through thick & thin is not what they want.

[jiffy]

Are you saying that those who have property, careers and materialistic luxury are spiritually stunted?

Does one have to be materialiscly poor, like Mother Therasa for spiritual growth?

Is that what you mean by this post?

To some extent, stunted yes. live in poverty no..

I have a very comfortable life....BUT..... a very big BUT.... the single most important part of this "perceived" success has been luck.

Yes I have work hard (no longer) as a have realized that there are far more greater treasures in life.

For vast swathes of people they measure there life's success on meaningless valueless nonsense.......

Trust me....when death comes a-calling, whats on your mind want be how hard you worked for that car or house....it will be.... I wished I spent more time with my loved ones!!!!

[pandamania]

Okay, humour me.

Without money -how do they 'move out'?

It is not easy but it possible. I grew up on a terrible high-rise council estate.

Being creative helps. I played music, got into bands, met other people from outside and ended up with better expectations in life.

[pandamania]

Are you saying that those who have property, careers and materialistic luxury are spiritually stunted?

Does one have to be materialiscly poor, like Mother Therasa for spiritual growth?

Is that what you mean by this post?

You are the biggest shit stirrer on this group! Always looking for confrontations. Never missing an oppertunity to pollute threads.

Mods: can you ban this troll, all it does is look for flamewars.

[brainfreeze]

You are the biggest shit stirrer on this group! Always looking for confrontations. Never missing an oppertunity to pollute threads.

Mods: can you ban this troll, all it does is look for flamewars.


Excuse you!

My questions where valid.

Just as your over inflated opinion of self is valid to you. WTF?!

[whiterain]

Like I said, we did it on a single parent income, three kids, living in a rented flat. I have neither time nor inclination to convince you of something that we, and others, made possible.

of course its possible for some but the issue is that its by no means at all possible for everyone. i noticed this when i moved to manchester. side by side there would be neighbourhoods that on the outside should have been very similar, but it seemed that one side was almost built to drive peoples spirits down. you could see how someone growing up in such a neglected area would have the knock on affect of neglecting themselves. its just simple things like space and greenery that make such a massive difference but it seemed that only the areas with the big town houses were the ones that were allowed to have lots of trees planted around, and a little more room to swing their (probly siamese) cats. i took a job as a meter reader to get to know the city, and you could be working one week on a great area and have a great week only to be put 2 streets down the next week and have an absolute shitter mostly because of the surroundings and the way the seem to affect the people living their

[monkeyboy]

maybe they are right and we should all be living like this :rolleyes:


http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/1681/povertyg.jpg

[bones]

should come were i live,

we havnt had any funding for imrovments since it was all built in the 60s

and i mean no funding!!!

oh wait we have had some for the cctv round the shops......



silly me...

[whiterain]

maybe they are right and we should all be living like this :rolleyes:


http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/1681/povertyg.jpg

great pic. i have no idea how the people looking out of their ivory tower could live with themselves

[Ian2day]

Estates are the way they are by design. All policy has stated and unstated aims and objectives. Tptb plays everyone like musical instruments. They program us all with generational downpression and exploitation. We all have a story to tell about how this world has treated us. They see opportunity in everything. They view us as nothing more than a commondity to be traded on the international bond market. They couldn't give a shit about how shit our life is. In fact they like it like that as our struggle, our very existence is entertainment and a business opportunity to them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tz5E3El4KEI&feature=related

[lizzy]

^^^ yes, Ian2day......exactly right. Those who had the willpower / smarts / "opportunities" to get out , need to 'look back in anger' not smugness.....

[ap12345]

People need to be more realistic, if someone doesn't work or lives in subsidized housing, they can't expect to have the same standard housing as someone who creates their own wealth.

Otherwise, what would be the point in anyone working, or taking out a morgage to buy your own home? there wouldnt be.

Its the equivalent of someone paying for Easyjet tickets and expecting to ride in British Airways first class. But then its to be expected because a huge proportion of the public don't understand work is required to bring things into existence, they think the government has a endless pot of money which just appears from no-where.

How about we raise the minimum wage and personal tax free allowance to 15,000 instead of taxing people to give to people who can't find jobs which pay enough to live on spend on "education".:rolleyes:

At the end of the day it comes down to a lack of people taking responsibility for their own lives, they want government to sort out all of their problems...then when they take that resposibility (and power) and start becoming tyrannical...they complain that we are living in a police state....:rolleyes:

[armoured_amazon]

^^^ yes, Ian2day......exactly right. Those who had the willpower / smarts / "opportunities" to get out , need to 'look back in anger' not smugness.....

Wtf ever. You see smugness, I see people with a jealous chip on their shoulder. I'm not smug, I'm thankful. And I've always had dreams, dreams that don't allow me to drown. People who choose to drown shouldn't be shitty with those who swim.

[lizzy]

Wtf ever. You see smugness, I see people with a jealous chip on their shoulder. I'm not smug, I'm thankful. And I've always had dreams, dreams that don't allow me to drown. People who choose to drown shouldn't be shitty with those who swim.But not all, infact most AA don't have your "drive".....;)

Yes, I agree........and there is lazyness, but that sometimes masks hopelessness and an intentional dependance on the system.....if TPTB had wanted decent housing and jobs for the last 2 generations to would have been created....It was'nt..

The plan was always to take down the west......move all manufacturing East and plunder the resources that should have gone into healthy estates, not drug infested wastelands.

[killmicrosoft]

get real you think you actually own your house look at the deeds ,
you do not .
you are in a worse situation than those on these council estates you just dont know it yet but mark my words you will find out soon enough.
You are owned no mater where you live and weather you work or not .
Stop being sheep realize what you are and work together we are al in the same boat

[armoured_amazon]

get real you think you actually own your house look at the deeds ,
you do not .
you are in a worse situation than those on these council estates you just dont know it yet but mark my words you will find out soon enough.
You are owned no mater where you live and weather you work or not .
Stop being sheep realize what you are and work together we are al in the same boat

I prefer this boat, thanks. I was ostracized in my old neighbourhood for being different. Now I mix with people who see no weakness in exploring different paths.

[killmicrosoft]

i prefer this boat, thanks. I was ostracized in my old neighbourhood for being different. Now i mix with people who see no weakness in exploring different paths.

all i can say is arrogance and ignorance are not attractive traits

“Arrogance diminishes wisdom”

“The world is burning in the fire of desire, in greed, arrogance and excessive ego.”

“The offspring of riches: Pride, vanity, ostentation, arrogance, tyranny”

“If you think education is expensive, try ignorance”

“Being ignorant is not so much a shame, as being unwilling to learn.”

“He must be very ignorant for he answers every question he is asked”

“Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance.”

[Ian2day]

Your only allowed to escape sink estates if you're of no use to them stuck where you're.

[armoured_amazon]

all i can say is arrogance and ignorance are not attractive traits

Ah, gtfo.

[paradise_1000]

Not all Estates are bad yes there are some shit holes but not all of them.

[kerbnix]

Wtf ever. You see smugness, I see people with a jealous chip on their shoulder. I'm not smug, I'm thankful. And I've always had dreams, dreams that don't allow me to drown. People who choose to drown shouldn't be shitty with those who swim.


I thought that may be the case.

[omnit]

This forum is nuts! I mean you guys are supposed to be awake or at least waking up?

I just read the whole thread, and youare all very much asleep if this topic is anything to go by!

Why cant you all see that the system is all by design?

This is the reason people like David are trying to wake people up, The system in place has the wool well and truly over the eyes of 99% of population!

I really dont have the energy to go deep into this at the moment, but please wake up people, you are were you are by design, and were some say you have a choice, this is true, but only for a very small minority as the system needs all levels of class from upper to the very lowest of the low to function!

Wake up, please! for your own sakes!

[Ian2day]

This forum is nuts! I mean you guys are supposed to be awake or at least waking up?

I just read the whole thread, and youare all very much asleep if this topic is anything to go by!

Why cant you all see that the system is all by design?

This is the reason people like David are trying to wake people up, The system in place has the wool well and truly over the eyes of 99% of population!

I really dont have the energy to go deep into this at the moment, but please wake up people, you are were you are by design, and were some say you have a choice, this is true, but only for a very small minority as the system needs all levels of class from upper to the very lowest of the low to function!

Wake up, please! for your own sakes!

Theres many disinfo shills on these boards. You see them all repeating the same shit. Trying to engineer our attitudes.

[jiffy]

Theres many disinfo shills on these boards. You see them all repeating the same shit. Trying to engineer our attitudes.

Not sure about that. I just think they are that programmed.

They can't see past "THEIR" own little world:rolleyes:

Omnit
Wise words:D

[guuna]

Actually the UK's social housing programme is very obviously the envy of the world.

It was a remarkable achievement, sadly it has been open to some abuse and areas of it have been left neglected, and little thought was given to how these communities would develope in future generations.

some will claim this as an achievement of the Fabians, but lets remember they are the ones that advocate the mass culling of the 'excess population', so anything they say isn't worth spit.

It's sometimes easy to fall into the trap of being judmental towards others in 'lower' social groupings, but we've got to remember that's all part of the ptb's divide and rule policy.

[armoured_amazon]

I thought that may be the case.

At the end of the day, you're a dickhead. In my neighbourhood, I was subject to racial abuse out of school, and bullying in school, because I always got top marks. My cousin was beaten up repeatedly for being mixed race. The boy in the next road from him got murdered a couple of years ago with an ice pick through the head for having a white girlfriend. So don't fucking tell ME I should have stayed there or want to put anything back into that community.

[ap12345]

sadly it has been open to some abuse and areas of it have been left neglected, and little thought was given to how these communities would develope in future generations.

Tell me, how much investment has been made in private housing??

I just don't understand, if studying the NWO should teach us anything its that when you give power to the government to run your life, you create tyranny.

Yet some of you seem to still be calling for more government intervention in areas of life they shouldn't be involved in.

I live on an estate with both private and social housing, the social housing buildings are all run down with smashed windows and kicked in fences and doors. They were all identical when they were built ten years ago...

Why is it these places are run down and private houses are not? because the people in public housing don't look after them, why? because its not their house and they think its the council (governments) job to fix it, when something goes wrong. If you treat people like children they will act like them.

Consequently the NWO wants people like this because guess what, they rely on them to be looked after.

[jimmi]

I grew up on a council estate, my parents were given the opportunity to rent a council house after their cottage was compulsorily purchased. Cutting a long story, I was able to buy the house for my mother and after she died I have lived there since. Where I live was once the largest council estate in Europe with a reputation for its 'roughness' that stretched even further! Times changed and because the opportunities were there most of the houses were bought by their tennants and the whole area was lifted from its depressive roots. The new 'social housing' developments in my area are small and so the problem neighbours are restricted to their little enclaves and more of a problem to themselves. Some posts on this thread talk about escaping while others will read it as bottling it , where can we escape to ? I only see quieter parts of the same cage.

[unusual_suspect]

This thread is yet another sad indictment as to where society has gone.

I love the American dream physiology, I did it with ALL MY HARD WORK....SO CAN ANYONE!

No luck involved what so ever, you weren't gifted with the ability and drive to succeed.
One can't help but wonder if things go wrong for you, you are as quick to blame yourself, or was it "hard" luck and things out of your control.

Nothing like people that need to measure their success in life by having to compare themselves with others!! (Funny how they always look down) :rolleyes:

Life's journey has nothing to do with property, careers, or materialistic value, sadly some only realize this when death is either imminent or cast a very dark shadow.

You keeping patting yourselves on the back, on how well you are doing.:rolleyes:

While the more enlightened amongst us continue on our "Personal" journey of wisdom, love and spirituality;)

Maybe if you ended up in such a situation you could go running to mummy and daddy for a hand out?

Sorry, but what planet are you on mate? The reason I went to uni, worked part time during that and got out of the high rise I was in was because I didn't want to bring my son up some where where there was dirty needles on the floor. There was a group of pikeys who were on the brown stuff who got a council flat there and they were knocking on peoples doors every day trying to sell stolen shampoo from the local Nettos. If you opened the door you could see they were trying to check out your stuff to see if you had anything worth robbing.

Some guy started on me one day in front of my son and threatened to give me a "f**ckin hiding* because he thought I was giving him attitude, I wasn't I was just scared because he was wasted and shouting like some sort of nutter. When I burst in to tears he said sorry. There were 3 fires in flats below me in the space of 8 months. People got beaten up, mugged and flats were broken in to, loads of people living there were smack and crack heads. I had mates who were too scared to visit me at my home.

I was on my own ffs with a small child and I didn't feel safe. Since when is it materialistic or stuck up in any way to want a home somewhere where you don't live in constant fear of having your place broken in to? Yes, I must be well stuck up for wanting me and my son out of there!

So I worked part time, got my HND in graphic design, worked my ass off, moved out of there and eventually got a job working flexible hours and from home managing websites and moved to the country.

I don't look down on or condemn anyone. I think alot of the people replying to this thread or who seem outraged at peoples attitudes are missing the point. It's not nice being on some social housing estates and on benefits. It's easy to fall in to the poverty trap, but with a lot of hard work it is possible to get out.

[twistedconcept]

The vast majority of the inhabitants aren't bad people. It's only 10% or so that commit the crime and are involved in drugs.

Many of them feel that they haven't been given a chance in life. They feel like they're seen as scum by the vast majority.

They need to be given a chance. Unfortunately, the system itself is corrupt and doesn't encourage success for the people who are seen as the misfits of society. There is a lot of wasted talent.

It is by no means possible for all of them to suddenly become what would be 'deemed' a success. They need encouragement.

[armoured_amazon]

Oh, poor helpless people! :rolleyes: I wonder how many of these charidee people in this thread have (a) lived on an estate and (b) still remain there. How much of a chance did Anthony Walker have? My mum was an auxiliary nurse, not a millionaire.

CHOICE.

[cruise4]

Social Engineering, largely allowed to occur because of the slaves, sorry, workers (the lazy bastards who can't think past the end of their greedy selfishness), and who continue to serve the agenda to ensure the majority in this world remain poor and exploited. Those too lazy to take the time to understand 'THEIR' actions are causing the continuation of all this tradgedy... and they have the audacity to ATTACK those on estates? You are all effin crazy and have STILL learnt nothing. To lazy to get out the slave money system. Well done. I'm sure all the downtrodden are lining up to 'thank' you idiot workers. We ALL work. But we don't all work to enrich ourselves at the expense of others. A few aren't that lazy and a few aren't so morrally corrupt as to then preach about the joys of slavery. Cretins!

[kallista]

Work. You people make me laugh. You sound like M. Thatcher.

[unusual_suspect]

Social Engineering, largely allowed to occur because of the slaves, sorry, workers (the lazy bastards who can't think past the end of their greedy selfishness), and who continue to serve the agenda to ensure the majority in this world remain poor and exploited. Those too lazy to take the time to understand 'THEIR' actions are causing the continuation of all this tradgedy... and they have the audacity to ATTACK those on estates? You are all effin crazy and have STILL learnt nothing. To lazy to get out the slave money system. Well done. I'm sure all the downtrodden are lining up to 'thank' you idiot workers. We ALL work. But we don't all work to enrich ourselves at the expense of others. A few aren't that lazy and a few aren't so morrally corrupt as to then preach about the joys of slavery. Cretins!

We are all slaves to some extent, but since when is it wrong to work. I had the choice of popping out more sprogs and staying on benefits in my crappy council flat and I didn't want to do that. Why are you slating people who didn't want to sit back and accept the status quo.

Maybe you were fortunate enough to have been brought up in a relatively affluent family, I do not know. But unless you have been in a situation where you have had to claw your way out of the shite to have any sort of decent standard of life, I really don't think you are in a position to go around slating those who have.

I wonder how many people replying to this thread have never had to want for anthying and have enjoyed a nice affluent middle class lifestyle all their lives :rolleyes:

[cruise4]

I have full experience of the lower levels of life, far more than most. I also have experience of mixing with some upper echelons as they are termed, (in reality anything but).

Most jobs are created posts. In other words... NOT a real job and not real work unless you count contributions towards the endless wars, endless created disease, poisoned food, corrupt politics, human trafficking, slavery a worthwhile pursuit. Do you?

I suggest you think hard about why your reply went from talking about work... to instantly talking about benefits.

"Why are you slating people who didn't want to sit back and accept the status quo."

I am not slating those people. Those people aren't posting trash on this thread. I'm slating those who SUPPORT the status quo and then have the cheek to either pretend they aren't, or are too stupid to realise what their actions result in. Because they are the ones bringing about death and destruction on us all in their ignorance of how societies ills are manufactured using the proceeds from their, mostly fictitious, work!

WE would ALL be better off if no-one went to work. But shortsightedness and self interest remains the dominant thought.

Work... Benefits... how much difference is there these days... really? I'll tell you, virtually none except those on the dole are more intuitive about their REAL situation. You are all on job creation schemes designed to feed their parasitical structures whilst entrapping you in occult mind control about 'work ethic' and 'breadwinners', leading you into dependancy and at the same time parotting their socially manufactured nonsense.

[nofuture]

A lot of the bimbos I went to school with seem to have got a lot out of life, just on how they look.

Life's so fair isn't it.:D

[cruise4]

Yeah... that's because fake is glorified and worth is discarded... until the scaffolding gets taken down.

[unusual_suspect]

I have full experience of the lower levels of life, far more than most. I also have experience of mixing with some upper echelons as they are termed, (in reality anything but).

Most jobs are created posts. In other words... NOT a real job and not real work unless you count contributions towards the endless wars, endless created disease, poisoned food, corrupt politics, human trafficking, slavery a worthwhile pursuit. Do you?

I suggest you think hard about why your reply went from talking about work... to instantly talking about benefits.

"Why are you slating people who didn't want to sit back and accept the status quo."

I am not slating those people. Those people aren't posting trash on this thread. I'm slating those who SUPPORT the status quo and then have the cheek to either pretend they aren't, or are too stupid to realise what their actions result in. Because they are the ones bringing about death and destruction on us all in their ignorance of how societies ills are manufactured using the proceeds from their, mostly fictitious, work!

WE would ALL be better off if no-one went to work. But shortsightedness and self interest remains the dominant thought.

Work... Benefits... how much difference is there these days... really? I'll tell you, virtually none except those on the dole are more intuitive about their REAL situation. You are all on job creation schemes designed to feed their parasitical structures whilst entrapping you in occult mind control about 'work ethic' and 'breadwinners', leading you into dependancy and at the same time parotting their socially manufactured nonsense.

I can see what you are saying, I would love to jack my job in, and once I have had my operation next week and have fully recovered I will be looking in to working for myself. However, it will still be work and I will probably still get the hump with it :rolleyes:

However, unfortunately there really isn't much coice in the matter, I would rather be working than on benefits, as the money I would get on benefits is less than I get working and I don't like the way you are treated by the system when you are on benefits.

What I think is sad is the fact that most people I know would prefer to have those less fortunate than themselves left to rot in horrible housing estates so they are not living near them.

So many people these days seem to genuinely lack any sort of compassion and empathy towards their fellow man. What many don't realised is that we are going through a financial collapse brought about by design and once they have suceeded in sneaking socialism through the back door we will all be povs!

[mightiswrong]

Actually the UK's social housing programme is very obviously the envy of the world.

It was a remarkable achievement


I don't see how blocks of flats with no gardens can be described as an acheivment.

[nofuture]

All this is nothing new. There was a notorious estate in Manchester called the Hulme Estate where the authorities dumped all society's rejects. It was actually demolished within twenty years of being built it was so bad.
http://aycu32.webshots.com/image/9511/2001972004625406167_rs.jpg
http://aycu15.webshots.com/image/11254/2001940415182906927_rs.jpg
http://aycu28.webshots.com/image/10667/2001226607811086627_rs.jpg
http://aycu36.webshots.com/image/7555/2005422281711799746_rs.jpg

[nofuture]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSReSn1WLV0

[nirvana]

I'm not sure if everyone who wanted to could get out if they so desired.

Smacks of social engineering to me.

But feel free to kick those already in the gutter.


Yes agree not everyone can get out of the situation they live in. This could be down to poor social skills mental or physical illness etc. Good luck to the ones that do manage to get of these council estates. But alot of people do get trapped within these communities.



Peace:)

[jammasterj13]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSReSn1WLV0
Yep, I remember 'good old Hulme'. The place in the video looked and felt like a Nazi concentration camp and most definitely was a social experiment gone terribly wrong.
Chilling

[nirvana]

This forum is nuts! I mean you guys are supposed to be awake or at least waking up?

I just read the whole thread, and youare all very much asleep if this topic is anything to go by!

Why cant you all see that the system is all by design?

This is the reason people like David are trying to wake people up, The system in place has the wool well and truly over the eyes of 99% of population!

I really dont have the energy to go deep into this at the moment, but please wake up people, you are were you are by design, and were some say you have a choice, this is true, but only for a very small minority as the system needs all levels of class from upper to the very lowest of the low to function!

Wake up, please! for your own sakes!

Most people dont want to wake up .The house ive worked for my money in the bank has got to be real . Also if people woke up up it would hurt the ego too much. The ego allways wants recognition and higher status.

[ging]

Haul yourself out of one system, you're straight into another.

I managed to get myself out of the benefits/council house trap, now I'm stuck in the mortgage/work/tax trap.

I prefer the latter, but I'm no freer than I was on benefit.

[armoured_amazon]

*whine* *waaaaah* *whine*

CHOICE.

Do you think everyone on a housing estate behaves like an asshole? NO.

People who steal and mug and generally do everything to bring the neighbourhood down, THEY MAKE A CHOICE TO DO SO and as such I owe them nothing.

People choose to have children that they can't support. I would have loved to have had kids, but I refuse to place a financial burden on society or bring a life into the NWO.

CHOICE.

CHOICE makes people behave negatively.

A person could have NOTHING and still conduct their life with respect. I know a guy on the streets who sleeps out back at one of the pubs I play at. He doesn't behave like an asshole and he has NO fracken home.

So all that bullshit about social engineering giving people free rein to behave like animals, wtf ever. :rolleyes:

[Ian2day]

*whine* *waaaaah* *whine*

CHOICE.

Do you think everyone on a housing estate behaves like an asshole? NO.

People who steal and mug and generally do everything to bring the neighbourhood down, THEY MAKE A CHOICE TO DO SO and as such I owe them nothing.

People choose to have children that they can't support. I would have loved to have had kids, but I refuse to place a financial burden on society or bring a life into the NWO.

CHOICE.

CHOICE makes people behave negatively.

A person could have NOTHING and still conduct their life with respect. I know a guy on the streets who sleeps out back at one of the pubs I play at. He doesn't behave like an asshole and he has NO fracken home.

So all that bullshit about social engineering giving people free rein to behave like animals, wtf ever. :rolleyes:

You seem to think that everyone is a clone of you. Has had the exact same socialisation. Although people are very similer we're all so very different. Everyone responds differently to external stimuli due to a whole plethoral of contributory factors. If you fail to understand this then perhaps you need to see beyond the mindset that nothing external to you is exerting any influence on your environment etc.

[ap12345]

You people miss the point these places were nice when they were built. Its the people that make a place. Fine there are some nice people that live in social housing I am sure, But, there are also a lot of seriously unpleasant ones, who are in there because they are alcoholics or drug addicts, or just thieves or both and as a result are on incapacity benefit.

For all of you out there who say oh its alright not working because working is slavery, well in that case i suggest you go out into the middle of nowhere sit on your arse and expect things to get delivered to you with no effort and see how far it gets you.

Stop living in dreamland, everything YOU use is the result of someone elses labour, your food, your computer your heating your house. Those who refuse to work and contribute something to the society in which they live are exactly the same as the elite, they dont work either and expect someone else to do everything else for them. The royal family has people who wipe their own arses for them!!

People living on benefits complaining because they have to live around other people on benefits!?! Simple cure to that one isn't there!:rolleyes:I love the fact that the people who got out of these places are hated on by those still in them because they did it through working, which is a revolutionary idea in most of these places.

Listen, you don't get to complain about where you are living when you aren't paying for it, and if you work then its your choice to leave. You are LUCKY you live in a country where there is social housing and welfare at all, in most countries you would be out on the street!

I accept that at the moment there probably is no way out because there are no jobs with the recession, BUT, we just went through 10 years of boom when there were so many jobs we had people from all over the world immigrating en mass to work.

Tell me if there were no jobs, back then and (no way out), how did the millions of immigrants find them? Because they come from countries where everything isn't handed to people on a plate thats why. So many jobs yet through the whole decade we still had 3 million people claiming benefits, The people who wanted to work and get out got out.

Work. You people make me laugh. You sound like M. Thatcher.

I rest my case!

[armoured_amazon]

You seem to think that everyone is a clone of you. Has had the exact same socialisation. Although people are very similer we're all so very different. Everyone responds differently to external stimuli due to a whole plethoral of contributory factors. If you fail to understand this then perhaps you need to see beyond the mindset that nothing external to you is exerting any influence on your environment etc.

And you seem to think people don't have free will, that external forces are the only means of control and choice. If you fail to understand that, that's sad for you.

[Ian2day]

And you seem to think people don't have free will, that external forces are the only means of control and choice. If you fail to understand that, that's sad for you.

I use to think that everyone had the opportunity to be all they wanted and that it was just them holding themselves back. Then I woke up to the depth and level of deception and downpression that takes place in the world.

[armoured_amazon]

I use to think that everyone had the opportunity to be all they wanted and that it was just them holding themselves back. Then I woke up to the depth and level of deception and downpression that takes place in the world.

'Woke up'. Lmfao.

"Don't hate 'cause I trash my neighbourhood, steal, terrorize and generally behave like an asshole. I can't help it, it's external factors."

Ha!

[cruise4]

"However, unfortunately there really isn't much choice in the matter"

There is though, there REALLY is. IF you see through a lot of the social conditioning it becomes apparent how people constantly turn to fear based reasoning for why they cannot attempt other routes. I need my job, the kids need feeding, we'll starve, where will I live, oh... I couldn't do that, etc. etc. It's like seeing the glass half full or half empty... and all short termism and all perpetuating the problem, instead of resolving it with short term and termporary unconfortableness. Fear, Fear, Fear... I'm convinced many aren't understanding how fear is ruling everything they do, and think.

Change is usually good, but only in hindsight. We MUST embrace change whether we like it or not. I repeat... it's temporary and then things get 1000% better for everyone almost straight away. You will have NO CHOICE in the matter soon.

[Ian2day]

'Woke up'. Lmfao.

"Don't hate 'cause I trash my neighbourhood, steal, terrorize and generally behave like an asshole. I can't help it, it's external factors."

Ha!

I'll say it again that you are applying the broad brush of your own existence onto all the other beings in the world. Not everyone is you or has had the same life as you. If you fail to grasp this simple concept then there is no more point to this communication taking place. I'll leave you to troll away:rolleyes:

[armoured_amazon]

I'll say it again that you are applying the broad brush of your own existence onto all the other beings in the world. Not everyone is you or has had the same life as you. If you fail to grasp this simple concept then there is no more point to this communication taking place. I'll leave you to troll away:rolleyes:

Troll troll troll troll

If YOU fail to grasp that people can live in a hovel and still conduct themselves with grace, then YOU have a lot to learn.

[anthony65]

I wonder what background most of the people on this forum have?

How many are just a generation or two away from very poor working class?

I was born in 1965. My perception of the older generations I knew as a child was that most of them had experienced severe poverty in the 20's and 30's, but they were honest, proud people who valued the education that they received and sought to improve their own lives and the lives of their children.

This sense of working to improve the lives of your children was very common in people who had so little and suffered great hardship.

This thread starts off with a quote about social housing being a 30 year problem. That would take us back to 1979... :eek:

What about the crap they built in the 50's and 60's?

What about the slums and tenements of the 20's and 30's

What about the slums before then.

There was always lots of crap housing in Britain.

And some nice stuff too, but it is impossible for me to believe that in recent decades they didn't know how to build the kind of houses that people enjoy living in and keep them sane.

Britain's housing is truly awful!

I live in Germany, and there is some bad stuff here, but generally the housing is much better. I can't believe the mini cardboard houses that have been built in the UK for the past couple of decades... :eek:

The people at the top want the proles to be unhappy. They try to keep them down, to create the underclass described by George Orwell, for example.

Escaping has got harder I reckon, because so many children are being born to parents who were also born to kids who had no goals in life other than drinking and partying.

Poverty can be escaped. :)

Igorance is the true prison. :(

[unusual_suspect]

'Woke up'. Lmfao.

"Don't hate 'cause I trash my neighbourhood, steal, terrorize and generally behave like an asshole. I can't help it, it's external factors."

Ha!

The system and society as a whole has encouraged us to be a nation of external blamers. I can't help behaving the way I do cause I'm poor, it's not my fault I'm like I am, my parents got divorced. I behave like this because I was sexually abused, my mum was depressed, my dad was an alcoholic, my boyfriend beat me up.....winge winge winge a lot of people with a bad case of the poor me's.

Well, if you don't want to grow up and accept responsibility for your own life and your own destiny that's fine, continue to blame externally, that way you will never have to deal with the situation and put in the hard graft of moving on in your life.

We all have our scars and our crosses to bear, but at some point surely it's time to embrace adulthood and take responsiblity for you actions and for steering you own course in life. Only loosers blame others and their circumstances, the way to freedom is to accept things as they are and instead of heaping the blame on to others, ask yourself what you can do to change and improve things.

[armoured_amazon]

I was born in 1965. My perception of the older generations I knew as a child was that most of them had experienced severe poverty in the 20's and 30's, but they were honest, proud people who valued the education that they received and sought to improve their own lives and the lives of their children.

...

Escaping has got harder I reckon, because so many children are being born to parents who were also born to kids who had no goals in life other than drinking and partying.

And that, I think, is the main problem.

Although, my mum was a young mum and educated her kids to strive for better circumstances, so again, it comes down to personal choice.

The system and society as a whole has encouraged us to be a nation of external blamers. I can't help behaving the way I do cause I'm poor, it's not my fault I'm like I am, my parents got divorced. I behave like this because I was sexually abused, my mum was depressed, my dad was an alcoholic, my boyfriend beat me up.....winge winge winge a lot of people with a bad case of the poor me's.

Well, if you don't want to grow up and accept responsibility for your own life and your own destiny that's fine, continue to blame externally, that way you will never have to deal with the situation and put in the hard graft of moving on in your life.

We all have our scars and our crosses to bear, but at some point surely it's time to emrace adulthood and take responsiblity for you actions and for steering you own course in life. Only loosers blame others and their circumstances, the way to freedom is to accept things as they are and instead of heaping the blame on to others, ask yourself what you can do to change and improve things.

Indeed! :)

[Ian2day]

Troll troll troll troll

If YOU fail to grasp that people can live in a hovel and still conduct themselves with grace, then YOU have a lot to learn.

Your losing and clutching at straws. Throwing out emotive arguments focussed on just one facet of the topic. Twisting the subject and words to suit your own narrow conditioned views and responses.

[armoured_amazon]

Your losing and clutching at straws. Throwing out emotive arguments focussed on just one facet of the topic. Twisting the subject and words to suit your own narrow conditioned views and responses.

Ah, whatever. We're never going to agree. I believe people should take responsibility for their own actions and choices, and you just look for a scapegoat. Victim mentality is not the truth, only a truth perceived by those looking for someone else to blame.

Whatever. Suck it up.

[decode reality]

I'm pretty much in agreement with Armoured Amazon and Unusual Suspect's posts here. It brings up a lot of the things raised on the Caine thread.

I live on an estate, a 'project'.

I briefly did a bit of work as a supply teacher at the turn of the millenium. Some of the children who were focused and willing to learn have grown up to be drug dealers who still live on the estate. They buy into that media ghetto stereotype and there's peer pressure.

I'm slowly but surely working to get out of that area. There are nice families here but I don't want to stay here. Now, if someone CHOOSES to step outside of the ghetto programme, through study, a job or self employment, then that isn't putting others down who are still in the 'hood. But unless you have some serious mental/physical condition that prevents you from creating a good life, a home/money to feed yourself etc, why then would you put down people who don't want to live in a cesspit?

There is social engineering to the degree that e.g, we aren't taught at school to create jobs, we're taught to go find them- or sign on.

Of course, many 9-5s are mind numbing and if you want more (emotionally/financially), you should do something else. But there is nothing spiritual about being poor, on the dole on the estate either. This is a distorted view of spirituality. When the bills drop and you're poor, can't feed yourself and the power gets cut, what does that say? Unless you're able to nourish yourself on air, then ain't a thing spiritual about not being able to feed and house yourself.

It's strange when people imply that if you do well financially that you're selling out or propping up a corrupt system. Come on.:rolleyes: You still pay tax contributions to fund elite plans when you're on the dole too!

[Ian2day]

Ah, whatever. We're never going to agree. I believe people should take responsibility for their own actions and choices, and you just look for a scapegoat. Whatever. Suck it up.

Its got nothing to do with looking for a scapegoat. But, everything to do with realising that our life is not the same as everyone elses. That we can't expect others to be a facsimile of us, even if they experience the exact same life as us, they will be different. Control is exerted on us from before we're even born. We are allowed by tptb to escape from sink estates only if we serve no purpose staying there.

Most responders seem to be focussed on the micro level and have yet to consider the mezzo or macro influence which is exerted on our lives.

[ging]

Ah, whatever. We're never going to agree. I believe people should take responsibility for their own actions and choices, and you just look for a scapegoat. Victim mentality is not the truth, only a truth perceived by those looking for someone else to blame.

Whatever. Suck it up.

Easy to say.

I worked in a children's home for teenage girls. These girls' lives had been so unbelievably fucked up by 'external factors.' I can't imagine even one of them leading a 'normal' life. They don't know how. They can't trust, have no self-esteem, have no aspirations. The list goes on and on.

Due to 'external factors' they piss the bed at age 15, have no desire to wash and have no interest in anything apart from getting as out of it as they can.

There's no scapegoat there.

[cruise4]

"Only loosers blame others and their circumstances, the way to freedom is to accept things as they are"

That is a ridiculous statement. Did haemophiliacs ask to be given AIDS (ignoring the controversy for examples sake). There is no level playing field, the game is rigged, there is a great deal of deliberate harm being done to ignorant people who can't understand. Abortion.. there's a 1001 examples where anyone can point out 'OTHERS' engaged in unacceptable behaviour... and pointing it out to those blinded by occult practise is a requisite in changing the situation.

You're right...
"it's time to emrace adulthood and take responsiblity"

for OUR inaction.

[nofuture]

No winners without losers?

[armoured_amazon]

Easy to say.

I worked in a children's home for teenage girls. These girls' lives had been so unbelievably fucked up by 'external factors.' I can't imagine even one of them leading a 'normal' life. They don't know how. They can't trust, have no self-esteem, have no aspirations. The list goes on and on.

Due to 'external factors' they piss the bed at age 15, have no desire to wash and have no interest in anything apart from getting as out of it as they can.

There's no scapegoat there.

And my friend who was sexually abused by her dad and her uncle from the age of four has grown into a strong, independent woman, who runs her own business, has a good marriage and dealt with her problems from childhood through therapy.

Your point?

Go and read Dave Pelzer's book about his childhood. And see if his external factors were anything to write home about. He took charge of his own life.

It sounds like staff at your children's home are failing these kids before they even have the opportunity to figure there's a way out.

[ap12345]

The first thing we need to change is the fact that you get twice the Dole money if you are on drugs or an alcoholic than if you are just unemployed...Thats social conditioning to keep people in these situation, BUT, that doesn't mean the person who falls in to the NWO drug trap can claim they are not responsible. We all have free will in this world.

[decode reality]

I'd like to say this as a comment on some of the thread and in general:

Sometimes I think we can ascribe so much power to TPTB that we lose sight of OUR OWN POWER. As an analogy: Immortal Technique sees that the mainstream music industry is bogus, so he creates his own platform- using his power. He could quite easily have said "I can't get my music out there, the corporate companies won't give me a deal"...I don't know Immortal T's in-depth biog, but seems to me that he was someone who manifested his own vision....when we blame the elite for just about eveything, I think we turn them into GOD!

[Ian2day]

Now, if someone CHOOSES to step outside of the ghetto programme, through study, a job or self employment,

I made all those choices and what a mistake it was. The system owes me big time.

[meksar]

People have no idea to the extent which society is being manipulated, most of these knife murders have been a result of MK-Ultra and trauma based mind control. Operation Trident which "fights" gun crime in black communities is a masonic farce, notice how gun crime has increased since it started. Just like terrorism, street crime is a useful tool for justifying the police state and the conditions are created and manipulated for it to move forward.

[ging]

Dave Pelzer?? No thanks.

Armoured Amazon, I see your point. But to expect that everybody has the mental capability or WILL to take control of their life and change it is too much.

I've seen enough empty souls in my life to realise that some people are too far gone to claw their way back.

Sometimes a can of Special Brew and a spliff is the answer, and if that's the life path they choose it's up to them.

[unusual_suspect]

"Only loosers blame others and their circumstances, the way to freedom is to accept things as they are"

That is a ridiculous statement. Did haemophiliacs ask to be given AIDS (ignoring the controversy for examples sake). There is no level playing field, the game is rigged, there is a great deal of deliberate harm being done to ignorant people who can't understand. Abortion.. there's a 1001 examples where anyone can point out 'OTHERS' engaged in unacceptable behaviour... and pointing it out to those blinded by occult practise is a requisite in changing the situation.

You're right...
"it's time to emrace adulthood and take responsiblity"

for OUR inaction.

I disagree, there are people who have been through and are going through all sorts of heavy shit in their lives. The loosers blame their circumstances, thus giving away their personal power and any chance of ever improving their situation. Other people think "well this is shit, but maybe if I start looking for those golden nuggets of sweetcorn it might not be so bad", they are inevitably going to end up with much happier fullfilled lives that those who allow themselves to become bitter and who just blame externally.

So, I think you are missing the point I am making, happiness is state of mind and it is also a choice.

I used to be friends with a girl who ended up hitting on my boyfriend, she blamed it on having been sexually abused....when she was 15! She hit on my boyfriend when she was 32. This is the sort of attitude I can't stand, after all that time it is well within her means to not behave like a complete shit because of something that happened to her in her teens. I'm afraid that some people are lazy and just love an excuse to behave badly!

[Ian2day]

I'd like to say this as a comment on some of the thread and in general:

Sometimes I think we can ascribe so much power to TPTB that we lose sight of OUR OWN POWER. As an analogy: Immortal Technique sees that the mainstream music industry is bogus, so he creates his own platform- using his power. He could quite easily have said "I can't get my music out there, the corporate companies won't give me a deal"...I don't know Immortal T's in-depth biog, but seems to me that he was someone who manifested his own vision....when we blame the elite for just about eveything, I think we turn them into GOD!

Its not his own vision, far from it.

[decode reality]

I made all those choices and what a mistake it was. The system owes me big time.

Why was it a mistake, Ian?

[ap12345]

People have no idea to the extent which society is being manipulated, most of these knife murders have been a result of MK-Ultra and trauma based mind control. Operation Trident which "fights" gun crime in black communities is a masonic farce, notice how gun crime has increased since it started. Just like terrorism, street crime is a useful tool for justifying the police state and the conditions are created and manipulated for it to move forward.

Give me a break, the NWO are not Satan FFS they do not control every evil thing which happens on this planet. This is just an example of blaming an external factor on all your problems. There are bad people out there, not all of them are part of the Illuminati...:rolleyes:

[Ian2day]

I disagree, there are people who have been through and are going through all sorts of heavy shit in their lives. The loosers blame their circumstances, thus giving away their personal power and any chance of ever improving their situation. Other people think "well this is shit, but maybe if I start looking for those golden nuggets of sweetcorn it might not be so bad", they are inevitably going to end up with much happier fullfilled lives that those who allow themselves to become bitter and who just blame externally.

So, I think you are missing the point I am making, happiness is state of mind and it is also a choice.

I used to be friends with a girl who ended up hitting on my boyfriend, she blamed it on having been sexually abused....when she was 15! She hit on my boyfriend when she was 32. This is the sort of attitude I can't stand, after all that time it is well within her means to not behave like a complete shit because of something that happened to her in her teens. I'm afraid that some people are lazy and just love an excuse to behave badly!

Look up self actualising tendency and realise that some people never reach that stage of personal development.

[unusual_suspect]

Look up self actualising tendency and realise that some people never reach that stage of personal development.

Well that's fair enough.

[Ian2day]

Why was it a mistake, Ian?

That is a question that would take a long time to answer. Too many contributory factors to say why.

[mightiswrong]

Ofcourse if you are in a ditch the best thing to do is climb out of it but that is not to say that these tower blocks are the fault of the people who live in them. You have to go back centuries to when the people were thrown off the land to get to the heart of the matter. It might not be fair that some people have a harder place to start from then others but I think that together we can help each other all get a proper home so that in future children get a good start in life. This is why I support the petition in my signature.

[killmicrosoft]

----
http://www.marxists.org/history/england/general-strike/pics/boss-attack.jpg

[jiffy]

actualising tendency

This is why I never bothered replying, people making sweeping i'll informed opinions on matters they have no knowledge of.

It is fine posting as to why you left your estate and how you did it, but to state or imply that those that don't are in some way "losers" that have chosen there paths. Shows little to no understand of even basic Psychology:rolleyes:

[paradise_1000]

At the end of the day, you're a dickhead. In my neighbourhood, I was subject to racial abuse out of school, and bullying in school, because I always got top marks. My cousin was beaten up repeatedly for being mixed race. The boy in the next road from him got murdered a couple of years ago with an ice pick through the head for having a white girlfriend. So don't fucking tell ME I should have stayed there or want to put anything back into that community.


damm girl my hearts going out to you


x.

[unusual_suspect]

This is why I never bothered replying, people making sweeping i'll informed opinions on matters they have no knowledge of.

It is fine posting as to why you left your estate and how you did it, but to state or imply that those that don't are in some way "losers" that have chosen there paths. Shows little to no understand of even basic Psychology:rolleyes:

Hmm, I may be a little blunt in my opinions, but I stand by what I say, loosers are people who blame others and their circumstances because it is a convenient way of avoiding responsibility for their own lives and actions.

Now that is not specifically aimed at people who don't leave social housing estates, but it is aimed at a specific type of person. I knew a person who earned a 6 figure salary who was one of the biggest loosers I have ever met, he really was a complete tool. I also know some very sound people who are on benefits.

I was just making the point that by blaming your situation, you are giving your power away, sorry, but that makes someone a looser in my book.

[wise haven]

Hmm, I may be a little blunt in my opinions, but I stand by what I say, loosers are people who blame others and their circumstances because it is a convenient way of avoiding responsibility for their own lives and actions.

Now that is not specifically aimed at people who don't leave social housing estates, but it is aimed at a specific type of person. I knew a person who earned a 6 figure salary who was one of the biggest loosers I have ever met, he really was a complete tool. I also know some very sound people who are on benefits.

I was just making the point that by blaming your situation, you are giving your power away, sorry, but that makes someone a looser in my book.

Good post US - I agree

I came from a tough area - Divorced mother, no financial support from my father and living on a tough Northern estate. My education was totally screwed up by moving from school to school - even though I worked hard to try and get qualifications - which is tough to do when shit dominates your life.
But I was lucky to have the determination to change my situation and not sit back and blame others or let my circumstances dictate the rest of my life. I made it out that hole and on the rare occasions when I have gone back, the same old faces are there - going nowhere and the majority having done Jail time and still moaning about the bad cards they were dealt.

Being a loser is a lifestyle choice - sounds a tough attitude hey? But I know that is the truth because if I had given in and accepted my lot I would be there with the rest of them.......moaning.

The best advice I got was from my Grandfather - You haven't lost until you stop getting up.

Plus, I never stood on anyone on the way up - and I will always give someone a hand up......but giving a hand out only creates slaves and keeps people as children of the state.

Time to grow up, wake up and take personal responsibility........no matter how tough that may be.

At least you will have your human dignity ;)............and that is worth more than Gold!

[armoured_amazon]

Good post US - I agree

I came from a tough area - Divorced mother, no financial support from my father and living on a tough Northern estate. My education was totally screwed up by moving from school to school - even though I worked hard to try and get qualifications - which is tough to do when shit dominates your life.
But I was lucky to have the determination to change my situation and not sit back and blame others or let my circumstances dictate the rest of my life. I made it out that hole and on the rare occasions when I have gone back, the same old faces are there - going nowhere and the majority having done Jail time and still moaning about the bad cards they were dealt.

Being a loser is a lifestyle choice - sounds a tough attitude hey? But I know that is the truth because if I had given in and accepted my lot I would be there with the rest of them.......moaning.

The best advice I got was from my Grandfather - You haven't lost until you stop getting up.

Plus, I never stood on anyone on the way up - and I will always give someone a hand up......but giving a hand out only creates slaves and keeps people as children of the state.

Time to grow up, wake up and take personal responsibility........no matter how tough that may be.

At least you will have your human dignity ;)............and that is worth more than Gold!

*claps* Wise, indeed. :)

[wise haven]

Thanks AA - Reading your earlier posts I know you had a tough start to deal with too.

You made it through too, and didn't give in......All respect to you for that :)

[kweli]

FFS! Such snobbery. It doesn't matter where you live; it matters what kind of person you are - simple!

[unusual_suspect]

Good post US - I agree

I came from a tough area - Divorced mother, no financial support from my father and living on a tough Northern estate. My education was totally screwed up by moving from school to school - even though I worked hard to try and get qualifications - which is tough to do when shit dominates your life.
But I was lucky to have the determination to change my situation and not sit back and blame others or let my circumstances dictate the rest of my life. I made it out that hole and on the rare occasions when I have gone back, the same old faces are there - going nowhere and the majority having done Jail time and still moaning about the bad cards they were dealt.

Being a loser is a lifestyle choice - sounds a tough attitude hey? But I know that is the truth because if I had given in and accepted my lot I would be there with the rest of them.......moaning.

The best advice I got was from my Grandfather - You haven't lost until you stop getting up.

Plus, I never stood on anyone on the way up - and I will always give someone a hand up......but giving a hand out only creates slaves and keeps people as children of the state.

Time to grow up, wake up and take personal responsibility........no matter how tough that may be.

At least you will have your human dignity ;)............and that is worth more than Gold!

Indeed, failure isn't getting knocked down, failure is not getting back up.

When you let go of blaming externally and start making steps on your own path you start giving yourself options, if you don't you have no options.

They way I look at it is some option is always better than no option, but I have always been of a kill or cure philosophy.

[decim]

The Whole of Britain is Concentration Camp!

Can you leave the place without the correct papers?

[wise haven]

Indeed, failure isn't getting knocked down, failure is not getting back up.

When you let go of blaming externally and start making steps on your own path you start giving yourself options, if you don't you have no options.

They way I look at it is some option is always better than no option, but I have always been of a kill or cure philosophy.

Yep, true - we can all create our options - some of those options will be tough ones, some will be easy options - but my experience is that the toughest options yield the greatest rewards.

It's all about decisions - and the worst possible thing in life is not to make them.....unless you make a decision you cannot fail and, more importantly, you cannot succeed.
Both failing and succeeding after making a decision are positive moves in life because they teach a lesson.
Not making a decision keeps you where you are - nothing ventured, nothing gained.

Kill or cure- is allways a step forward :D:D

[mightiswrong]

I'm pretty much in agreement with Armoured Amazon and Unusual Suspect's posts here. It brings up a lot of the things raised on the Caine thread.

I live on an estate, a 'project'.

I briefly did a bit of work as a supply teacher at the turn of the millenium. Some of the children who were focused and willing to learn have grown up to be drug dealers who still live on the estate. They buy into that media ghetto stereotype and there's peer pressure.

I'm slowly but surely working to get out of that area. There are nice families here but I don't want to stay here. Now, if someone CHOOSES to step outside of the ghetto programme, through study, a job or self employment, then that isn't putting others down who are still in the 'hood. But unless you have some serious mental/physical condition that prevents you from creating a good life, a home/money to feed yourself etc, why then would you put down people who don't want to live in a cesspit?

There is social engineering to the degree that e.g, we aren't taught at school to create jobs, we're taught to go find them- or sign on.

Of course, many 9-5s are mind numbing and if you want more (emotionally/financially), you should do something else. But there is nothing spiritual about being poor, on the dole on the estate either. This is a distorted view of spirituality. When the bills drop and you're poor, can't feed yourself and the power gets cut, what does that say? Unless you're able to nourish yourself on air, then ain't a thing spiritual about not being able to feed and house yourself.

It's strange when people imply that if you do well financially that you're selling out or propping up a corrupt system. Come on.:rolleyes: You still pay tax contributions to fund elite plans when you're on the dole too!

Family food gardens allow one to be 'self-sufficient' without propping up a corrupt system. Everyone should have the opportunity to have their own garden without paying a mortgage for 30 years.


kweli FFS! Such snobbery. It doesn't matter where you live; it matters what kind of person you are - simple!

It is very difficult to be the person you are while surviving on toxic waste from tescos and summerfield when those lands can and are being turned over to family food gardens.

[armoured_amazon]

damm girl my hearts going out to you


x.

Thanks :)

[wise haven]

The Whole of Britain is Concentration Camp!

Can you leave the place without the correct papers?

It doesn't have to be that way you know.

In life we always have the option to agree (consent), protest (duress) or acquiesce (neither agree or protest) and the default for acquiescence is that you have agreed.

We, you, us - are sovereign beings..... which means we have the right to say no. If you do not say no = it means you agree.

We can all say no - and the good thing is that the majority are realising this and starting to say no "I do not consent" powerful stuff.....and the more of us that realise that; the greater the power we will have.

It just takes a little time and determination.........:D

[duckandcover]

FFS! Such snobbery. It doesn't matter where you live; it matters what kind of person you are - simple!

Spot on. IMO The only reason people feel the need to move is a lack of self esteem and looking down on others will make them feel better. Personally i dont get sucked in by the class system and judge people by their actions not by the car they drive or the house they live in. Carry on striving for a `better life` , im sure the government would pat you on the back for your contributions ! slaves! :p:D

[armoured_amazon]

Spot on. IMO The only reason people feel the need to move is a lack of self esteem and looking down on others will make them feel better. Personally i dont get sucked in by the class system and judge people by their actions not by the car they drive or the house they live in. Carry on striving for a `better life` , im sure the government would pat you on the back for your contributions ! slaves! :p:D

Bwahahaha

[wise haven]

damm girl my hearts going out to you


x.

Yup, Ditto:)

[wise haven]

Spot on. IMO The only reason people feel the need to move is a lack of self esteem and looking down on others will make them feel better. Personally i dont get sucked in by the class system and judge people by their actions not by the car they drive or the house they live in. Carry on striving for a `better life` , im sure the government would pat you on the back for your contributions ! slaves! :p:D

I am confused - sorry if I have taken the wrong track on your post but I do not see the problem moving out of a bad situation.
You seem to imply that moving away is some sort of judgement call on those that stay behind....please correct me if I am wrong.

My move away was one that was striving to move on from one that created a slave mentality for those in the same situation that I was in. They, the ones that remained were the ones that had been conditioned to be happy with "their lot" in life.

I do not believe in the class system (aristocrats and peasants alike have enslaved themselves by conforming to this crap)

I don't strive for a better life - only one which puts the government firmly in it;s place......and that is one which the government is the servant of us, the people, to serve our needs and aspirations and not one where it dictates to us some form of social pecking order. That is what we all pay our taxes for. The one and only reason that I, and you all should pay taxes for is for yours and my benefit. To pay tax for any other reason is total and absolute nonesense. Why would anyone give away their hard earned "sweat equity" for?. Every single tax we pay should be and has to be for our benefit. It is the way to share the cost of providing us all with what we want to make our lives easier. It is not a fine.....some form of punishement.....FFS why would you give away your hard earned cash to someone or something for any other reason than it being to your benefit. This is not a maffia state (I hope) we pay taxes purely to benefit ourselves ....surely?

Only when government is put in its place will we all be able to find and establish the place we want to be in society.....one where we all feel comfortable in our own skin and do not feel compelled to either aspire or un aspire to.

[armoured_amazon]

Yup, Ditto:)

Now for my next move! :)

[wise haven]

Now for my next move! :)

I'm intrigued - what is your next move?? :confused:

[decim]

It doesn't have to be that way you know.

In life we always have the option to agree (consent), protest (duress) or acquiesce (neither agree or protest) and the default for acquiescence is that you have agreed.

We, you, us - are sovereign beings..... which means we have the right to say no. If you do not say no = it means you agree.

We can all say no - and the good thing is that the majority are realising this and starting to say no "I do not consent" powerful stuff.....and the more of us that realise that; the greater the power we will have.

It just takes a little time and determination.........:D

Yes & No pretty often here...determination I have, it has taken me 37 years to get round to typing this reply...don't rush me..

Strange though we British can move around the EU as Itinerant peg sellers if we wish to, yet if WE wish to move to a "Commonwealth" country ie. Canada, Australia, Gibraltar, New Zealand or any of the other outposts of H.M Empire there are strenuous procedures to vet you.

[mightiswrong]

Comment I posted to the independent:

Housing is infact not the issue. Anyone without a proper garden is condemned to eating toxic waste from the supermarkets. The economics are such that those on the lowest incomes have little choice but to eat from the truff of the pharmaceutical racket destroying their health, mental capacity and leading to an early death. People are infact quite capable of surviving the harsh British climate outdoors if necessary provided they have a healthy diet, they can also get together to build well insulated homes out of clay and straw in the time honoured tradition. All that is infact necessary is to make those lands available to the people that they belong to.

[wise haven]

Family food gardens allow one to be 'self-sufficient' without propping up a corrupt system. Everyone should have the opportunity to have their own garden without paying a mortgage for 30 years.



It is very difficult to be the person you are while surviving on toxic waste from tescos and summerfield when those lands can and are being turned over to family food gardens.

What you have pointed out is the fundamental problem with the societies we live in.

We have all been forced, coerced, tricked and fooled into moving off the land, which sustains us, and moved into cities and suburbs which deprive us of the means to support ourselves in the most basic of methods, namely the means to grown our own food.
We have been conned into relying on their corporate food retailing monopoly and that is one in which we can never prosper.

It is time to take back our inheritance....

[duckandcover]

I am confused - sorry if I have taken the wrong track on your post but I do not see the problem moving out of a bad situation.
You seem to imply that moving away is some sort of judgement call on those that stay behind....please correct me if I am wrong.
**In my experience this is the case, a desire to `better` themselves**
My move away was one that was striving to move on from one that created a slave mentality for those in the same situation that I was in. They, the ones that remained were the ones that had been conditioned to be happy with "their lot" in life.
**Im not sure they are happy with their lot, the amount of drugs,alcoholism,gambling,depression etc on estates are the actions of happy people?**
I do not believe in the class system (aristocrats and peasants alike have enslaved themselves by conforming to this crap)

I don't strive for a better life - only one which puts the government firmly in it;s place......and that is one which the government is the servant of us, the people, to serve our needs and aspirations and not one where it dictates to us some form of social pecking order. That is what we all pay our taxes for. The one and only reason that I, and you all should pay taxes for is for yours and my benefit. To pay tax for any other reason is total and absolute nonesense. Why would anyone give away their hard earned "sweat equity" for?. Every single tax we pay should be and has to be for our benefit. It is the way to share the cost of providing us all with what we want to make our lives easier. It is not a fine.....some form of punishement.....FFS why would you give away your hard earned cash to someone or something for any other reason than it being to your benefit. This is not a maffia state (I hope) we pay taxes purely to benefit ourselves ....surely?
**I would be more than happy if the majority of the money paid in was for the benefit of ourselves, but all i see is mp pisstaking , illegal wars and waste of time projects, fucked if im paying for them!**
Only when government is put in its place will we all be able to find and establish the place we want to be in society.....one where we all feel comfortable in our own skin and do not feel compelled to either aspire or un aspire to.
**I agree, governments should be servants of the people, not rulers.**

[wise haven]

Yes & No pretty often here...determination I have, it has taken me 37 years to get round to typing this reply...don't rush me..

Strange though we British can move around the EU as Itinerant peg sellers if we wish to, yet if WE wish to move to a "Commonwealth" country ie. Canada, Australia, Gibraltar, New Zealand or any of the other outposts of H.M Empire there are strenuous procedures to vet you.

I know what you mean decim_ my personal aim has been to move to NZ - but the reality is that the clampdown on human sovereignty is taking place all over the world and moving to somewhere else will only be a brief time before it affects us wherever we go.
There are massive populations, from Africa, S. America and the Islamic countries trying to migrate to the "promised lands" of Europe, UK, Australasia, Candada and the US. This will only be a temporary solution to the problem we all need to address: That problem is: World government is trying to divide, destroy and homogenise the human population into a state where it cannot withstand or fight back the last controls that are being implememented.
Wherever we are; we must stay and resist what is being implemented in the next 3 to 5 years....running away is not an option. If you run from tyranny it will always chase you biting your arse and just when you think it is safe it will bite your head off.
It's too big now; wherever we go, the globalist will be there to enslave us.
We have to stay where we are and face the beast - We live on a big, big planet with loads of space and enough room for every single human being to live and feed itself - without impacting on the wildlife and flora and fauna....all in harmony. The only thing destroying harmony on this planet are the ones who would enslave us all to provide them with control, power and more wealth than Solomon could wish for:
Power, Control and Money is destroying the world - something only 3% of the world want to acquire.
The remaining 97% of the worlds population could easily and happily co-exist with its fellow man, animal and plant for the benefit of all - and the detriment to none........

[armoured_amazon]

I'm intrigued - what is your next move?? :confused:

Nothing major; just hoping to change my career, so I can leave the UK. :)

[meksar]

Does anyone remember the 3 shootings in a fortnight of teenagers in South London at the start of 2007, you see this was a classic example of MK-Ultra that most "awake" people cant see. These were shocking murders which Scotland Yard (Scottish Rite Freemasonry) used to justify more stop and search and more armed patrol police. One of these shootings took place at a birthday party at Streatham ice rink, to me this was a MK-Ultra victim let on the loose by some wicked psychiatrist. Mock what i have to say if you will, but when its okay to execute deprived teenagers resisting the n.w.o under E.U law, then you might think twice about it.

If these people can manipulate and cover up events which lead to 52 people being blown to pieces, would it really be that hard for them to brainwash kids from time to time to carry out murders. Once you have created the fear more kids will carry knives, and when previously a fist fight would have solved a dispute, a knife blade to the chest and guts will do. And remember that Blair as a high ranking Freemason knows how to play the charm and pretend to be compassionate, whilst laughing his sick ass off behind closed doors.

[meksar]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/6363713.stm

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2007/feb/16/ukguns.news

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2007/apr/12/ukcrime.race

Masonic propaganda as usual particularly at 0:46

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26IoHZCUeEk

[Ian2day]

This thread shows that people can fail to grasp what someone else is saying for a number of reasons such as personal development. It also reinforces my original point. I see a number of strawman type responses from the disinfo agents. Who choose to skirt round things which challenge the stance they are tasked with taking whenever someone questions the paradigm. They use the reply with quote option and seek to attach arguments and replys to my username answering questions or points or using my replys in support of some different view.

[armoured_amazon]

This thread shows that people can fail to grasp what someone else is saying for a number of reasons such as personal development. It also reinforces my original point. I see a number of strawman type responses from the disinfo agents. Who choose to skirt round things which challenge the stance they are tasked with taking whenever someone questions the paradigm. They use the reply with quote option and seek to attach arguments and replys to my username answering questions or points or using my replys in support of some different view.

Wow, you're so much wiser than the rest of us. However shall we reach your level of understanding?

:rolleyes:

[scooby doo]

Boo is that you?

My boyfriend is a bit of East End rough done very well for himself. Not bad for a lad who left school to pump gas to help his mum out.

He gave a talk last week where he was asked what motivated him.

His answer?

POVERTY.

You'd think that enough to motivate anybody. But apparently not. I don't get that mindset.

I'll take that with a pinch of salt. No offence to you but I can't understand a mentaly that would do anything for money. Takes all kinds really. Money is not the be all and end all of this life dispite what you might think.

[Ian2day]

Wow, you're so much wiser than the rest of us. However shall we reach your level of understanding?

:rolleyes:

I don't think I am very wise, far from it as it goes.

[kanz]

I grew up on a council estate, my parents were given the opportunity to rent a council house after their cottage was compulsorily purchased. Cutting a long story, I was able to buy the house for my mother and after she died I have lived there since. Where I live was once the largest council estate in Europe with a reputation for its 'roughness' that stretched even further! Times changed and because the opportunities were there most of the houses were bought by their tennants and the whole area was lifted from its depressive roots. The new 'social housing' developments in my area are small and so the problem neighbours are restricted to their little enclaves and more of a problem to themselves. Some posts on this thread talk about escaping while others will read it as bottling it , where can we escape to ? I only see quieter parts of the same cage.

Just out of curioisity , do you mean c-milk?

[unusual_suspect]

Spot on. IMO The only reason people feel the need to move is a lack of self esteem and looking down on others will make them feel better. Personally i dont get sucked in by the class system and judge people by their actions not by the car they drive or the house they live in. Carry on striving for a `better life` , im sure the government would pat you on the back for your contributions ! slaves! :p:D

I think you are missing the point somewhat. A major factor in moving out of the council flat that I had in the high rise was because I didn't feel safe. Someone tried to break in to my flat, I was a young single mum with a young child to look after. After that I slept with a bit of 2x4 next to my bed!

Have you ever been in a situation like that? There is nothing wrong with not wanting to live somewhere where unpleasant people are constantly terrorising the community.

Shouldn't people have the right to live somewhere where they feel safe? I think so, and that's why I moved.

[runlikehell]

Its called work, simple.

I grew up on 2 estates with a single mother, 2 sisters (older) and fuck all. Both the estates were at one time or another voted most crime ridden etc etc etc. (Ford and Noctorum if anyone knows them).

My 3 close friends turned out to be a drug dealer, a murderer. Ive seen things i wouldnt wish on my enemies go on in dark places on these estates.
And the bottom line is i wanted out.

Im sure there are lots of us.

When i was a youngster, i grew up on some of the most notorious housing estaes in Scotland (Edinburgh and Glasgow) by a single mother and seen the whole F****ing Lot!

Stabings, lost fiends, our house broken into, the list goes on, and on, and F****en on!

Got the scars physically and mentally, but do the best i can.

One little B****** i new very well, even tryed to mug my mother (When she was here) someone who she had know for years!

I think you are missing the point somewhat. A major factor in moving out of the council flat that I had in the high rise was because I didn't feel safe. Someone tried to break in to my flat, I was a young single mum with a young child to look after. After that I slept with a bit of 2x4 next to my bed!

Have you ever been in a situation like that? There is nothing wrong with not wanting to live somewhere where unpleasant people are constantly terrorising the community.

Shouldn't people have the right to live somewhere where they feel safe? I think so, and that's why I moved.

Excuse me unusual_suspect (F****en! thieving B*****s! :mad::mad:) That's better :o

You to, i still sleep with a large, sharp, metal object at the side of my bed! all these years later!

These high rise flats are Crazy! they are like a world within a world. People can stay in their for months (If they wanted) sending people to the shops to get them things, and just going from one floor to the other seeing, and doing various dealings with others.

I know somone who went down the stairs to the shop (right at the bottom and across the road) gone 5.mins came back broken into!

Tv, Video, (at the time) jewlery, kids PS I (all the games) ransacked, no one heard or seen a thing.

One teenage girl was in a flat with some people and she fell asleep drunk or somthing, they took her house keys out of her pocket, screwed her flat, and put the keys back in her pocket. when she eventully woke up, went home and found her house screwed, she told them about it and, they acted as if they knew nothing about it.

Like myself if you managed to get out without robbing some old woman, breaking into houses or becoming a scumy F***!
and can walk down the street with a bit of self respect, that some good (YOU!) lives on, out the bad!

Then well done to you, i hope your livin a better life now, anyone who manages to get out F***en deserves it!

[cruise4]

"For all of you out there who say oh its alright not working because working is slavery"

No-one is saying that. It's the system that is a slave system. Working in, or for such a system means you accept slavery. I don't work, I don't claim dole. But I still work, because I want to, need to. I need nothing off any government or institution. What's interesting is how many times people fail to even perceive such a situation exists... yet it's the state we should all be in.

Everyone can escape poverty in this system... it shows such a ludicrous misunderstanding and ignorance of the economy and social structure, it's frightening, on a supposed truth site.

Ho hum. Plenty of work to do still. It's like one step forwards and three back again.

[runlikehell]

The school I went to, that was heavily invested in music, was in a different area, and only accepted pupils in the neighbourhood catchment area. When I was off playing with different orchestras.

:eek: I know a girl who plays classical music! And always sing :eek::

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1aKAH_t0aXA&feature=related

It drives her Nuts! Must be a musio thing! :p :D

[runlikehell]

As long as People are fighting with each other wherever they came from, wherever they are, whatever they are doing, we're losing and TPTB are wining!

[evillive]

Its all about ur choises, u gotta create ur luck in this shitty world...and if u fail u can always say "at least i tryed..and did my best".
Lazyness is the real sickness in this world.

[tyler]

I wonder what background most of the people on this forum have?

How many are just a generation or two away from very poor working class?

I was born in 1965. My perception of the older generations I knew as a child was that most of them had experienced severe poverty in the 20's and 30's, but they were honest, proud people who valued the education that they received and sought to improve their own lives and the lives of their children.

This sense of working to improve the lives of your children was very common in people who had so little and suffered great hardship.

This thread starts off with a quote about social housing being a 30 year problem. That would take us back to 1979... :eek:

What about the crap they built in the 50's and 60's?

What about the slums and tenements of the 20's and 30's

What about the slums before then.

There was always lots of crap housing in Britain.

And some nice stuff too, but it is impossible for me to believe that in recent decades they didn't know how to build the kind of houses that people enjoy living in and keep them sane.

Britain's housing is truly awful!

I live in Germany, and there is some bad stuff here, but generally the housing is much better. I can't believe the mini cardboard houses that have been built in the UK for the past couple of decades... :eek:

The people at the top want the proles to be unhappy. They try to keep them down, to create the underclass described by George Orwell, for example.

Escaping has got harder I reckon, because so many children are being born to parents who were also born to kids who had no goals in life other than drinking and partying.

Poverty can be escaped. :)

Igorance is the true prison. :(

This is the best post here!

[tyler]

Boo is that you?

My boyfriend is a bit of East End rough done very well for himself. Not bad for a lad who left school to pump gas to help his mum out.

He gave a talk last week where he was asked what motivated him.

His answer?

POVERTY.

You'd think that enough to motivate anybody. But apparently not. I don't get that mindset.

Excuse me but where does a young lad "pump gas" in England?

Where do you hail from? Israel? New York?

Did your boyfriend go on to dig ditches and work as a busboy, move out of the projects and make it big on Wall Street?
Hot diggety!

[Ian2day]

Excuse me but where does a young lad "pump gas" in England?

Where do you hail from? Israel? New York?

Did your boyfriend go on to dig ditches and work as a busboy, move out of the projects and make it big on Wall Street?
Hot diggety!
lol

[brainfreeze]

Excuse me but where does a young lad "pump gas" in England?

Where do you hail from? Israel? New York?

Did your boyfriend go on to dig ditches and work as a busboy, move out of the projects and make it big on Wall Street?
Hot diggety!


He pumped gas at a garage in Ilford back in the very late 70s.

Why the need to sneer mate?

You're almost right, he made it off a council estate to a lifestyle most of us would dream about. Some people do make it you know - And yeah, yeah, I understand there are those who choose poverty on their path to attain spiritual growth but some of us reckon we can have enlightenment and wealth. Each to their own.

I say well done to the BF, the boy done good. Too bad if there are haters who don't like his success. He can be proud of himself :)

[mightiswrong]

So what do you think about family gardens BrainFreeze? Does that fit in with your version of success?

[brainfreeze]

So what do you think about family gardens BrainFreeze? Does that fit in with your version of success?

I'm not sure what you're on about.

[mightiswrong]

I'm not sure what you're on about.

Didn't think so. Gotcha. :D

[brainfreeze]

Didn't think so. Gotcha. :D

O...k...... :confused:

As long as it made sense to you dude. Remember, your reality is on your side of the keyboard, mine is this side of mine. If you've proved some sort of point by asking a question of which I haven't got a clue to what you are refering and this proves you right, hey mate, it's all in your head. :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=voHt52tsT1U

[lozz]

some people are just lazy, the 'I cant be bovvered' generation

And some people think they are better than others.

In my opinion it doesn't matter where you live or how much you earn or how "educated" you think you are. We are all the same.

I grew up on the biggest council estate in England brought up by my single Mother. I brought up my Son on my own for several years and eventually bought my Mums council house and am about to see my son start college in a coupe of months. Does this make me better than anyone? No of course not.

If someone decides for them selves that they dont want to serve the system and work for 65 years so they can be allowed just a few years of freedom then i for one will never call them lazy.

[armoured_amazon]

:eek: I know a girl who plays classical music! And always sing :eek::

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1aKAH_t0aXA&feature=related

It drives her Nuts! Must be a musio thing! :p :D

Woohoo! *turns speakers up* :D

[brainfreeze]

I am baffled as to how a grown woman could not understand the meaning of the phrase family gardens and is unwilling or unable to comment on their relation to the word success. All these words are quite commonly used in the English language. Given that I have commented on this topic several times on this thread as well as hundreds of others that brainfreeze as read and that my agenda is very transparent I raise my suspicions about the agenda of brainfreeze which appears to be anything but transparent.


What agenda mate?

You're the one with an agenda by the looks of it. I'm sorry I don't understand you and no, I don't read every post you make, and wont be reading you again after this little stunt you're pulling.

How fucking weird!

[armoured_amazon]

I fricken hate dickheads who ask questions, KNOWING the recipient won't understand, so they can puff up and say "See? I'm so clever, I knew he/she wouldn't get that."

Wtf has a family garden got to do with anything? Speaking as an English person, I fail to see the relevance, and never hear it as a frequent part of the language - you made it up. A garden is a garden. :mad:

[gilly]

Please can we steer clear of personal attacks on this thread!

[mightiswrong]

I don't know. I am confused with what is going on in this thread. There is an agenda I am sure. I removed that comment before you replied.

[brainfreeze]

I fricken hate dickheads who ask questions, KNOWING the recipient won't understand, so they can puff up and say "See? I'm so clever, I knew he/she wouldn't get that."

Wtf has a family garden got to do with anything? Speaking as an English person, I fail to see the relevance, and never hear it as a frequent part of the language - you made it up. A garden is a garden. :mad:

Eeek...for a moment there I thought it was just me.

Thanks for jumping in, even though you got a telling off for it.

[mightiswrong]

I fricken hate dickheads who ask questions, KNOWING the recipient won't understand, so they can puff up and say "See? I'm so clever, I knew he/she wouldn't get that."

Wtf has a family garden got to do with anything? Speaking as an English person, I fail to see the relevance, and never hear it as a frequent part of the language - you made it up. A garden is a garden. :mad:


You just ignore people and continue on with your agenda. There are a whole bunch of people on this thread. If I could see your faces I would know what was going on. It is like you are not interested in anything but keeping the rat race. I thought this forum was for finding solutions to the rat race not promoting it.

[mightiswrong]

edit. armoured_amazon removed comment about me having an agenda.
--

Yup see my signature and please sign.

[anthony65]

Getting back to the title of the thread...

"Concentration camps".... :eek:

Hardly!

Shit housing?

Yes.

This seems to be an effort to create a ghetto mentality. An effort that has been going on for many generations.

Snobbery is a curse.

But so is reverse snobbery.

Both are characterized by ignorance.

The concentration camps are currently only in people's minds.

[armoured_amazon]

Yup see my signature and please sign.

Yeah, 'cause you really know the way to win people to your cause. Come into a thread and mock the language a user uses, and accuse them of having a dark agenda.

I hope you never have to save lives!!!

[brainfreeze]

Yup see my signature and please sign.

But for the way you presented it I for one may have supported your agenda. But instead your comments leave me with the "I'm alright Jack" emotions high at the fore. Maybe sometime later when I've calmed down, or when someone nicer than you presents it again I'll read it properly, but for now, I don't care.

[Ian2day]

You're a dick, and if anyone's got an agenda, it's you. How's about you stfu.

I do tend to agree with mightiswrong on this one. That solutions to the currect paradigm fo control is what the ethos of this kind of forum is about. It shouldn't mean that we can't discuss other subject matter though. Although people acting as if those who do their own thing in an act of either choosen defianace or as a consequence of the way that tptb have stacked society against them are the ones who are the problem are very wrong. If this is your belief or mindset then tptb still have you defending and maintaining the invisable sheep pen.

[mightiswrong]

Fair enough. We just have to try and learn from the experience. I will have to give it some thought and step back and let you guys work things out for yourself. I don't want to cause any harm but I do not believe for a second you have not read any of my posts. Most of you just ignore me and I must be getting demoralised and making mistakes. It is only coz of the urgency I sense. I should be sorting other things out instead of being insulted by people who don't want to fix anything.

[anthony65]

Fair enough. We just have to try and learn from the experience. I will have to give it some thought and step back and let you guys work things out for yourself. I don't want to cause any harm but I do not believe for a second you have not read any of my posts. Most of you just ignore me and I must be getting demoralised and making mistakes. It is only coz of the urgency I sense. I should be sorting other things out instead of being insulted by people who don't want to fix anything.

I didn't follow what went on in the thread, but was it really about you posting the gardening related stuff?

If yes, then forget it and carry on promoting gardening, organic gardeing, permaculture etc....

And if you get demoralized, do some weeding or digging! :)

[rich157]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/ae/Gatefold_4th_album_from_Led_Zeppelin.jpg

I live here...

Wiki tells me it's a pretty crap area to live in... me personally though, I think it's great.
I could have got out of the area years ago, I still can, I just don't want to.

I don't really think it matters where you live tbh.
What may seem like a concentration camp to somebody else, feels great to me.

If the SHTF then this is the area & these are the people I want to be around. :)

Or is that classed as being too comfortable ? :rolleyes:

[unusual_suspect]

Getting back to the title of the thread...

"Concentration camps".... :eek:

Hardly!

Shit housing?

Yes.

This seems to be an effort to create a ghetto mentality. An effort that has been going on for many generations.

Snobbery is a curse.

But so is reverse snobbery.

Both are characterized by ignorance.

The concentration camps are currently only in people's minds.

I like the cut of your jib there anthony and I agree with you, you have all sorts of cross sections of society indoctrinated with their own little prejudices looking down on one another.

All part of the divide and rule thing that we have going on these days.

[anthony65]

I like the cut of your jib there anthony and I agree with you, you have all sorts of cross sections of society indoctrinated with their own little prejudices looking down on one another.

All part of the divide and rule thing that we have going on these days.

Thank you! :)

I'm rather proud of my jib... :o

[darkovic]

Britain's schools could double as actual camps. Have you seen the wire fences around modern schools? They mostly have large fields too and quite often a furnace.

Dual usage perhaps. They admit sports stadiums will be used (like in the wake of hurricane Katrina) so fenced off areas will also have been earmarked for other purposes. Pretty obvious like.

12 foot wire mesh fences and cameras, to "protect da kids from da pedos" or something else?

[unusual_suspect]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/ae/Gatefold_4th_album_from_Led_Zeppelin.jpg

I live here...

Wiki tells me it's a pretty crap area to live in... me personally though, I think it's great.
I could have got out of the area years ago, I still can, I just don't want to.

I don't really think it matters where you live tbh.
What may seem like a concentration camp to somebody else, feels great to me.

If the SHTF then this is the area & these are the people I want to be around. :)

Or is that classed as being too comfortable ? :rolleyes:

Look, if you are happy there that's all that matters man, that's what it's all about, quality of life, not whether you live in social housing or private - that's immaterial if you feel ok with your life.

when I moved out of the tower block I was in because it was because I didn't like it there, simple as. Now I live in a forest and I am very happy here. If you are lucky enough to be happy where you are all power to you :)

Edit, did you take that photo? If so you are a dammned good photographer!

Thank you! :)

I'm rather proud of my jib... :o

And a fine jib it is! :D:p

Britain's schools could double as actual camps. Have you seen the wire fences around modern schools? They mostly have large fields too and quite often a furnace.

Dual usage perhaps. They admit sports stadiums will be used (like in the wake of hurricane Katrina) so fenced off areas will also have been earmarked for other purposes. Pretty obvious like.

12 foot wire mesh fences and cameras, to "protect da kids from da pedos" or something else?

Tell me about it, it's sinister :(

[mightiswrong]

Wtf has a family garden got to do with anything? Speaking as an English person, I fail to see the relevance, and never hear it as a frequent part of the language - you made it up. A garden is a garden. :mad:

Even a single mother and a child constitutes a family. A garden is a space filled with plants forming a home. A family garden is a garden belonging to a family that can provide fresh, loving food for the family. Fresh loving food is important to health and well being. It is relevent because council flats have devrived faimiles of a family garden. Private housing means mortgages and the payment of 3 times the value of the home which is the agenda of the fabians. A very grotesque level of slavery and hours worked plus the additional hours for the low quality food products they insist upon. All of this on lands that belong to the people.

Plants cultivated from seeds germinated and planted in this manner and eaten by the person who has grown them is capable of curing him of “any diseases of the flesh whatsoever but also of significantly retarding the aging process, rescuing him from harmful habits, tremendously increasing his mental abilities and giving him a sense of inner peace.”
http://anastasiasgarden.com/library/healinggardens/

[armoured_amazon]

I'm single, no kids and I live in an apartment.

But for the way you presented it I for one may have supported your agenda. But instead your comments leave me with the "I'm alright Jack" emotions high at the fore. Maybe sometime later when I've calmed down, or when someone nicer than you presents it again I'll read it properly, but for now, I don't care.

+1

[cruise4]

"I'm single, no kids and I live in an apartment."

Sound like Al-Queda to me...

"Or is that classed as being too comfortable ?"

Blatent Homegrown terrorism...

[armoured_amazon]

"I'm single, no kids and I live in an apartment."

Sound like Al-Queda to me...

"Or is that classed as being too comfortable ?"

Blatent Homegrown terrorism...

Excuse me?

Should I grab a man and bust some kids out to fit an acceptable profile for you? :rolleyes:

wtf, fa

[mightiswrong]

+1

Passed thru the orwellian translation facility I get the reading:
WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH.

[mightiswrong]

"Don't you see that the whole aim of Newspeak is to narrow the range of thoght? In the end we shall make thoughtcrime literally impossible, because there will be no words in which to express it."
1984

Here is some new speak to replace the aformentioned 'incomprehensible' term family gardens. Replace with Kin's domains or for short kindoms. I'm sure the party will love these terms. How about this one: A space of love (http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=29488&highlight=space+love). :p

[decode reality]

Striving to get out of the ghetto can be a matter of protecting yourself from immediate danger or theft.

It can mean that you want to be able to make enough money to feed yourself, clothe yourself, maybe even save up the arm and a leg to buy a ticket to hear David Icke or someone talk...;):D(oh oh, now let's not get into a discussion about "truthers getting paid", eh?)...

you might want to be a writer, a musician, set up whatever kind of business, and you need of an environment that's safe to do those things.

Now, what's wrong with those goals? If you want to stay in the estate and you're happy, then that's cool and I can understand that too.

but if you think it's somehow "wrong" to want something else, please give me the alternatives. No-one's saying that having more money= freedom. But to say that if you're living virtually under siege on the estate, (and you strive for more) that you're selling your soul to the New World Order, well that's almost comical.

[mightiswrong]

It would depend what kind of music, what kind of writing and what kind of business. Creative or destructive?

Then if these actions result in taxation how can you be sure that the money is spent creatively?

But to say that if you strive for more that you're selling your sold to the New World Order, well....(shakes head in disbelief)

Strives for more what?
Soul or sold?

[decode reality]

It would depend what kind of music, what kind of writing and what kind of business. Creative or destructive?

Then if these actions result in taxation how can you be sure that the money is spent creatively?



Strives for more what?
Sole or sold?


Edited my message again- please re-read.

More money so that they can get the hell out of immediate danger!

[anthony65]

It would depend what kind of music, what kind of writing and what kind of business. Creative or destructive?

Then if these actions result in taxation how can you be sure that the money is spent creatively?



Strives for more what?
Sole or sold?

Don't be so petty...

FFS.... :confused:

What is it about this thread?

[decode reality]

Edited my message again- please re-read.

More money so that they can get the hell out of immediate danger!

Also, they might prefer not to have to see dealers and prostitutes doing their thing 24/7- people who could have much better lives but have gone down a destructive path. That'what I mean by 'more'....now, if wanting to be out of that equates to you (i.e MightIsWrong)'selling out' there's really little point in us continuing to talk on this issue.

[decode reality]

Also, they might prefer not to have to see dealers and prostitutes doing their thing 24/7- people who could have much better lives but have gone down a destructive path. That'what I mean by 'more'....now, if wanting to be out of that equates to you (i.e mightIsWrong0 'selling out' there's really little point in us continuing to talk on this issue.:rolleyes:

[anthony65]

Striving to get out of the ghetto can be a matter of protecting yourself from immediate danger or theft.

It can mean that you want to be able to make enough money to feed yourself, clothe yourself, maybe even save up the arm and a leg to buy a ticket to hear David Icke or someone talk...;):D(oh oh, now let's not get into a discussion about "truthers getting paid", eh?)...

you might want to be a writer, a musician, set up whatever kind of business, and you need of an environment that's safe to do those things.

Now, what's wrong with those goals? If you want to stay in the estate and you're happy, then that's cool and I can understand that too.

but if you think it's somehow "wrong" to want something else, please give me the alternatives. No-one's saying that having more money= freedom. But to say that if you're living virtually under siege on the estate, (and you strive for more) that you're selling your soul to the New World Order, well that's almost comical.

Thank God we still have the right to move around and choose where to live!

I know what you mean Decode!

There are so many reasons for moving away from somewhere.

Do we have to justify them to the thought police?

Not yet.

Sometimes, just going somewhere new is enough!

[mightiswrong]

Yeah I would definately get out of immediate danger and get more money. What's petty about clarifying a fundamental distinction. Music can do great harm as well as great good.

[anthony65]

Yeah I would definately get out of immediate danger and get more money. What's petty about clarifying a fundamental distinction. Music can do great harm as well as great good.

I thought you were just picking on a typo...

This thread is so bizarre that I thought you were being ultra petty...

If you weren't, sorry! :)

I just exchanges PMs with decode.

This is one of the most bizarre threads I've ever read on the forum.

We are taking about people living in shit housing.

And the fact that some people want to get out of there.

What could be more natural than that?

Why is a modern society seemingly incapable of building decent housing?

I don't accept that this is necessary.

There are hundreds of alternatives to house people in ways that are far, far better for them...

I feel that shit housing is part of the agenda for keeping people down, economically and escpecially spiritually.

Some of these places are literally soul destroying.

Especially for the more sensitive souls.

I'm happy for anyone who escapes a place that they find soul destroying.

And I know that everyone could be housed in good homes.

If the people at the top wanted it that way...

[mightiswrong]

Also, they might prefer not to have to see dealers and prostitutes doing their thing 24/7- people who could have much better lives but have gone down a destructive path. That'what I mean by 'more'....now, if wanting to be out of that equates to you (i.e MightIsWrong)'selling out' there's really little point in us continuing to talk on this issue.

Na you are misinterpreting me. I fully support making as much money as possible and useing it to the maximum creative extent possible. Same with music. Become the worlds number 1 musician. Do it. Give people healing music. If you have to pay taxes in the process I suppose the good would outway any negatives. If the work is destructive then the net impact would be negative to all and it would be better for everyone if such a person stayed poor.

[mightiswrong]

I thought you were just picking on a typo...



Na I just thought it might be a freudian slip.

[anthony65]

Na I just thought it was a freudian slip.

aahh freudian slips.... :)

They're alright...

But picking on typos! :mad:

Grrr mek ma blod bloi!

[Ian2day]

This is a very strange and bizarre thread. With loads of strawman techniques being employed.

[unusual_suspect]

Striving to get out of the ghetto can be a matter of protecting yourself from immediate danger or theft.

It can mean that you want to be able to make enough money to feed yourself, clothe yourself, maybe even save up the arm and a leg to buy a ticket to hear David Icke or someone talk...;):D(oh oh, now let's not get into a discussion about "truthers getting paid", eh?)...

you might want to be a writer, a musician, set up whatever kind of business, and you need of an environment that's safe to do those things.

Now, what's wrong with those goals? If you want to stay in the estate and you're happy, then that's cool and I can understand that too.

but if you think it's somehow "wrong" to want something else, please give me the alternatives. No-one's saying that having more money= freedom. But to say that if you're living virtually under siege on the estate, (and you strive for more) that you're selling your soul to the New World Order, well that's almost comical.

I honestly don't understand how NOT wanting to live somewhere is wrong :confused: Especially as you say, if you are not safe there, this thread is doing my head in now....it's twisting my mellons man!

I thought you were just picking on a typo...

This thread is so bizarre that I thought you were being ultra petty...

If you weren't, sorry! :)

I just exchanges PMs with decode.

This is one of the most bizarre threads I've ever read on the forum.

We are taking about people living in shit housing.

And the fact that some people want to get out of there.

What could be more natural than that?

Why is a modern society seemingly incapable of building decent housing?

I don't accept that this is necessary.

There are hundreds of alternatives to house people in ways that are far, far better for them...

I feel that shit housing is part of the agenda for keeping people down, economically and escpecially spiritually.

Some of these places are literally soul destroying.

Especially for the more sensitive souls.

I'm happy for anyone who escapes a place that they find soul destroying.

And I know that everyone could be housed in good homes.

If the people at the top wanted it that way...

I know, what's wrong with not wanting to live in a sh1t-hole and bring up your child around druggies, tea leafs and alcoholics. I used to live in a place where hall way floor and lifts were splattered with blood most weekends from all the fighting - may be I'm just a snob :rolleyes:

A very bizzare thread indeed!

[mightiswrong]

It's all about turning a negative into a positive. That's what pisses the dark forces off the most. When things backfire on them. I can feel the energy.

Oh yeah kindoms. space of love their most cherished words. LA LA LA . :D

[Ian2day]

I think that it has gone off in several different directions. With some answering the posts of one user while quoting anothers point. Made it go a bit off tac.

[unusual_suspect]

I think that it has gone off in several different directions. With some answering the posts of one user while quoting anothers point. Made it go a bit off tac.

Branching logic :o

[nirvana]

I don't know. I am confused with what is going on in this thread. There is an agenda I am sure. I removed that comment before you replied.


I think the message from this thread is every man for himself . Maybe this is what the real awakening means ,knowing that there is no justice and you either swim or sink.

[nirvana]

You just ignore people and continue on with your agenda. There are a whole bunch of people on this thread. If I could see your faces I would know what was going on. It is like you are not interested in anything but keeping the rat race. I thought this forum was for finding solutions to the rat race not promoting it.

This system is too strong and too many so called awakend people have too much invested in this system. So most so called truthers will make money exposing the system while at the same time solidating their position in the system.

[mightiswrong]

"You are insane if you believe a house is worth more than a garden."
"If you want a vision for the future it is a world where the garden stretches as far as the eye can see and beyond"
from 4891 by george orwell.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZD2N5SEAvs

[nirvana]

Its not wrong to want to get away from bad area's. I left a bad area a couple of years ago .Could not park my car there too much vandalism. I got out by giving my flat up and playing on my old mental health issues. I went into emergency accomadation and now have a really nice flat in a really nice area.
I think we do what we do to survive. At the end of the day its us that have got to walk our own path there is no great awakening movement that is going too save us ,we have to accept responsibility for ourselves.

I know some people on bad estates who are so mentally damaged they can never break free. Its not their fault they were born into a unfair world where only the strong survive.

Do what ever helps you to survive .

[meksar]

I will say this, if you do not understand the scale and complicity to which society is being manipulated then there is a lot of learning to do. The wife of a mass murderer was allowed to hold commissions on youth violence, that is just sick and vulgar irony. Of course if some well to do kids were gunned down at a posh school, people on here would scream MK-Ultra, but when i point out "ghetto" killings that are very bizarre have more to them, they don't want to hear that.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2008/jul/01/cherieblair.justice?gusrc=rss&feed=uknews

http://www.channel4.com/news/microsites/D/disarming_britain/

[darkovic]

I will say this, if you do not understand the scale and complicity to which society is being manipulated then there is a lot of learning to do. The wife of a mass murderer was allowed to hold commissions on youth violence, that is just sick and vulgar irony. Of course if some well to do kids were gunned down at a posh school, people on here would scream MK-Ultra, but when i point out "ghetto" killings that are very bizarre have more to them, they don't want to hear that.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2008/jul/01/cherieblair.justice?gusrc=rss&feed=uknews

http://www.channel4.com/news/microsites/D/disarming_britain/

I think most violence stems from fear. For most kids who stab people, they're terrified of appearing weak for fear of being seen as such and treated as such, which would be very bad for them, what with everyone behaving the same way in their lives, running on the same fear thinking.

The only way things will stop is for kids to join gangs that do not use violence and actively help people. They'll take casualties of course but in the end most of the madness will stop.

[armoured_amazon]

I think most violence stems from fear. For most kids who stab people, they're terrified of appearing weak for fear of being seen as such and treated as such, which would be very bad for them, what with everyone behaving the same way in their lives, running on the same fear thinking.

The only way things will stop is for kids to join gangs that do not use violence and actively help people. They'll take casualties of course but in the end most of the madness will stop.

Which is weakness in itself. And yet, many here seem to think that those of us glad to have moved on have ideas above our station. :rolleyes:

[darkovic]

Which is weakness in itself. And yet, many here seem to think that those of us glad to have moved on have ideas above our station. :rolleyes:

Of course stabbing someone because you're scared it'll happen to you is weak, but how many people are strong enough at 13-14 to resist peer pressure never mind the fear of being knifed up if they resist?

Have you ever been to a city?

[armoured_amazon]

Of course stabbing someone because you're scared it'll happen to you is weak, but how many people are strong enough at 13-14 to resist peer pressure never mind the fear of being knifed up if they resist?

Have you ever been to a city?

I have lived in a city all my life.

edit: Two cities (Liverpool and London)

[duckandcover]

Im lucky enough to live on an estate with at least some community spirit, if the shit ever hits the fan be it economic colapse, war , severe climate change , we will all pull together.The `upper classes` have mainly lost this ability, caught up in their material worlds,not used to hardship or surviving and would be first to perish/submit. They have been conditioned to be 100% reliant on the system. :rolleyes:

[ex sheep]

Im lucky enough to live on an estate with at least some community spirit, if the shit ever hits the fan be it economic colapse, war , severe climate change , we will all pull together.The `upper classes` have mainly lost this ability, caught up in their material worlds,not used to hardship or surviving and would be first to perish/submit. They have been conditioned to be 100% reliant on the system. :rolleyes:

Now this is what's needed, you have got it, it was the same as 50 years ago, everyone stuck together as a community, help each other out, sociable, leave your front door open, now what happened, yes we all know there has been manipulation, the good trusting people slowly got manipulated, and then TV fucked everything up good style.:mad:

[decim]

Te Levi Sion

The Babel box in the corner.

[decode reality]

Na you are misinterpreting me. I fully support making as much money as possible and useing it to the maximum creative extent possible. Same with music. Become the worlds number 1 musician. Do it. Give people healing music. If you have to pay taxes in the process I suppose the good would outway any negatives. If the work is destructive then the net impact would be negative to all and it would be better for everyone if such a person stayed poor.


Ok sorry....Misunderstanding cleared up, no probs.:) And thanks for this post which I would say is a good strategy for any of us in any field.

[runlikehell]

Woohoo! *turns speakers up* :D

da dada da daa, DA DADA DA DAA, DA! DADA! DA! DAA! da dada da daaaaa!

LMAO! Orchestras, Classical Muso's Rock! :D:D:D

[runlikehell]

Please can we steer clear of personal attacks on this thread!

How about though out the whole forum?

[scatlond]

This says it all, for me. i grew up in a Beasley St.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37QUUwp9xIs

[armoured_amazon]

da dada da daa, DA DADA DA DAA, DA! DADA! DA! DAA! da dada da daaaaa!

LMAO! Orchestras, Classical Muso's Rock! :D:D:D

:D

eta: By 12sec, I'm getting heartache. Every time. There's magic in this piece.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbsvPMbC55A

[duckandcover]

Te Levi Sion

The Babel box in the corner.

lol , tele - to project . vision- as in theirs !!:D

[decode reality]

I thought you were just picking on a typo...

This thread is so bizarre that I thought you were being ultra petty...

If you weren't, sorry! :)

I just exchanges PMs with decode.

This is one of the most bizarre threads I've ever read on the forum.

We are taking about people living in shit housing.

And the fact that some people want to get out of there.

What could be more natural than that?
Why is a modern society seemingly incapable of building decent housing?

I don't accept that this is necessary.

There are hundreds of alternatives to house people in ways that are far, far better for them...

I feel that shit housing is part of the agenda for keeping people down, economically and escpecially spiritually.

Some of these places are literally soul destroying.

Especially for the more sensitive souls.

I'm happy for anyone who escapes a place that they find soul destroying.

And I know that everyone could be housed in good homes.

If the people at the top wanted it that way...

Hearing you loud and clear there, Anthony.

Another thing:

All those descriptions such as 'disadvantaged', 'oppressed' 'marginalised' that are often applied to estate folks- those are LIMITING terms because people take them as being their identity, their nature. And if you believe you're disadvantaged, that is the way you're gonna live your life, that will be your expectation.

The truth is they're just conditions/condtitionings and they don't represent who you are...There's always choice. You can still maintain a sense of self and evolve as a person and accumulate wealth.

[darkovic]

I have lived in a city all my life.

edit: Two cities (Liverpool and London)

Then you know it's not that easy for kids to be strong.

I'm from Liverpool too by the way.

I always tried to stay out of trouble as a kid but, it just doesn't work like that.

Personal choices I made did influence others not to do things like robberies, just by me walking away, but kids today are much more hard-line with each other. We had it easy compared to them.

We had Amiga's they don't know a world without execution footage on tap and "hardcore" fucked up porn everywhere. Different worlds.

[armoured_amazon]

Then you know it's not that easy for kids to be strong.

I'm from Liverpool too by the way.

I always tried to stay out of trouble as a kid but, it just doesn't work like that.

Personal choices I made did influence others not to do things like robberies, just by me walking away, but kids today are much more hard-line with each other. We had it easy compared to them.

We had Amiga's they don't know a world without execution footage on tap and "hardcore" fucked up porn everywhere. Different worlds.

I know none of my kids at school need to be hardasses, neither do any younger family members.

It's not about different worlds, it's about lax parenting (to an extent) and personal choice. I feel no need to watch hardcore fucked up pon or snuff films; never did.

All children are exposed to such stuff nowadays, some choose to behave in a different manner to others.

[darkovic]

I know none of my kids at school need to be hardasses, neither do any younger family members.

It's not about different worlds, it's about lax parenting (to an extent) and personal choice. I feel no need to watch hardcore fucked up pon or snuff films; never did.

All children are exposed to such stuff nowadays, some choose to behave in a different manner to others.

Now you sound like your avatar. Stuck up a bit to be honest.

Blame what you want, but kids will watch anything they can with their mates, just out of shock factor and curiosity. I don't watch executions but I bet your kids have seen 2 girls 1 cup.

[armoured_amazon]

Now you sound like your avatar. Stuck up a bit to be honest.

Blame what you want, but kids will watch anything they can with their mates, just out of shock factor and curiosity. I don't watch executions but I bet your kids have seen 2 girls 1 cup.

If it sounds stuck up, I apologise; I was multi-tasking on the phone, helping my sister fix her computer. What part do you disagree with?

I remember as a child, choosing when to be part of what my friends did, and when not to be, because of the good parenting my mother did.

As for 2 girls 1 cup, I would have opted not to watch that as a kid, and I have faith that even today, children are able to manage themselves appropriately. Perhaps your social circles were not the same as mine.

Going on into adulthood, I had many opportunities to make lots of money dealing, pimping girls etc etc. I chose not to. Again, CHOICE.

Don't hate on people who make better choices.

If that's stuck up, then I guess I'm happy to be stuck up. At least I own my actions and behaviours, instead of looking for external excuses.

[darkovic]

If it sounds stuck up, I apologise; I was multi-tasking on the phone, helping my sister fix her computer. What part do you disagree with?

I remember as a child, choosing when to be part of what my friends did, and when not to be, because of the good parenting my mother did.

As for 2 girls 1 cup, I would have opted not to watch that as a kid, and I have faith that even today, children are able to manage themselves appropriately. Perhaps your social circles were not the same as mine.

Going on into adulthood, I had many opportunities to make lots of money dealing, pimping girls etc etc. I chose not to. Again, CHOICE.

Don't hate on people who make better choices.

If that's stuck up, then I guess I'm happy to be stuck up. At least I own my actions and behaviours, instead of looking for external excuses.

I don't make excuses for anything. You blaming peoples parents is exactly that though.

"Perhaps your social circles were not the same as mine." yeah you sound like you went to a school where everyone wasn't stoned all the time. I did. Not fun. I bet most teenagers have seen 2 girls 1 cup and the beheading vids from Iraq at very formative years in their lives. We just didn't have exposure to that level of graphic violence and sickening depravity. Kids today take it in their stride and that's not healthy however you look at it.

There's even text speak for 2 girls 1 cup, 2G1C

I know kids of all ages mate and they see all kinds online they aren't meant to. My little nephew saw a Humvee being torn apart by an IED and he's 2. He now sees stuff on TV and goes "BOOOM!!!" growling at the TV. His uncle was a Royal Marine in Afgahnistan too and his sister just from the TV news used to draw pictures of upside down humvees with puddles of blood underneath and she`s 9.

There's a whole generation of kids who don';t know a world without the internet and that means a whole generation of people who have become numbed to extreme violence, real violence, beheadings, rape and murder, armed robberies gone "wrong" and all kinds of war footage, dead kids, Tsunami victims... mate we didn't see any of that shit. I didn't anyway, did you?

It's affected them badly... I know kids I think are actually gone already and are actually psychotic.

[armoured_amazon]

I don't make excuses for anything. You blaming peoples parents is exactly that though.

"Perhaps your social circles were not the same as mine." yeah you sound like you went to a school where everyone wasn't stoned all the time. I did. Not fun. I bet most teenagers have seen 2 girls 1 cup and the beheading vids from Iraq at very formative years in their lives. We just didn't have exposure to that level of graphic violence and sickening depravity. Kids today take it in their stride and that's not healthy however you look at it.

There's even text speak for 2 girls 1 cup, 2G1C

I know kids of all ages mate and they see all kinds online they aren't meant to. My little nephew saw a Humvee being torn apart by an IED and he's 2. He now sees stuff on TV and goes "BOOOM!!!" growling at the TV. His uncle was a Royal Marine in Afgahnistan too and his sister just from the TV news used to draw pictures of upside down humvees with puddles of blood underneath and she`s 9.

There's a whole generation of kids who don';t know a world without the internet and that means a whole generation of people who have become numbed to extreme violence, real violence, beheadings, rape and murder, armed robberies gone "wrong" and all kinds of war footage, dead kids, Tsunami victims... mate we didn't see any of that shit. I didn't anyway, did you?

It's affected them badly... I know kids I think are actually gone already and are actually psychotic.

And who is supervising their internet usage? The parents? Kids shouldn't have computers in their rooms, and all accessible OSs should have filters on them.

At the end of the day, you'll defend what you hold dear, and that's fine. Just don't expect everyone to think it's acceptable. Perhaps people need to stop breeding like rats if they can't raise them properly. People don't have to be 'posh' to parent properly. There are families all across the social spectrum that need to sort themselves out.

[wildhorse]

whew whatta thread!!! my heads all over so bear with me on my post...

Slaves come in many forms, whether work horses for the masses, or the masses who are work shy, - you get your money, its deducted, you pay grossly over inflated prices on all esentials, and whether you rent or 'buy', the end result is the same.

Ever wondered why the push to buy houses? ...well...you pay twice what you would do renting, for same property, the banks then get a large slice of that already inflated price, then when you get old, you are forced to sell to pay for your "care". If you die within the week of moving into the care home (where you are likely to degenerate at the speed of light once in one), guess who gets the money from the sale of 'your' house...yep...the government. I will not save up and do without just to get on the artificially price hiked market, to buy an average two up two down house, pay through the nose for it both in mortgage and in interest, only then to give it to the government when I die.

I wish people would stop falling for this shit. Programs telling us we MUST buy... no...we must do what we can afford within our present circumstances. Thats not settling, not if you continue to strive for other acomplishments, like doing things like hobbies that make you happy.

Council housing an experiment? Hmmmm I dare say so...but every estate is just as bad. Take them new houses that spring up on the edge of upper suburbia. Any greenery that lined the estate to fool you that you were moving to a pleasant semi rural 'villagey' idyll, has been obscured by the way the houses face each other, infact you could be anywhere. Its all the same, the main focal point the tv corner, and the main window view looking onto a neighbours heavily financed car and into their window into their house with their 52" HD plasma etc, trying to create envy and therefore feed capitalsim, whilst making it near impossible to try and branch out and be energy and food self sufficient. If anything, just as capitalism really started to bite in the 70s, the Beeb made self sufficency a focus of ridicule with the comedy sitcom The Good Life. These houses are just as souless as the post war era social housing that shot up, they are just tarted up abit better, but the people who live there are loosing their beliefs and hopes and morals and self preservation, along with the Joe Dole Wallers. And even the so called 'priviliged' kids are rude, nasty and ignorant. Little ferral bastards are not the select of the 'Shameless' estate.

There are council estates and there are sink estates. For me, from personal experience, I have been in places where it felt bloody awful, and that was due more to the vibes and attitudes from the peeps living there, than the ugliness of the estate themselves, as some families did go to work, and therefore bought and did up their houses and so smartened the place up, and had a diff outlook on life. Ok the PC crew can say "but these misunderstood chavs had problems growing up, and no strong structure to change" GUESS WHAT...SO HAD THE REST OF US...but we take responsability for our actions, albiet eventually ;) Its called life, and you kinda have to grow into it!

Some people I used to know on a council estate or in the run down inner cities, just had no intention of working, whether saying they can't get a job, or exaggerating a mental illness. No work, ever. Now I have had depression and anxiety but I always wanted to get better and do something with my life. It makes it harder but it can be done eventually, if only in small steps, which is what I am doing setting up my own biz at mo. I am getting there put it that way.

I am also a spiritual gal, and I do not need 24/7 of never ever working to maintain my spirituality, that is just a cop out, and those who say that know that deep down. Call it for what it is, you dont see why you should work all them hours for the same amount of money, which is a valid point. End of. Don't blame it on your guru zen schedule.

I think what really got me on this thread, was peoples projections towards those that decided to move to a nicer area. Every person has the right to chose their environment, but not everybody had the opportunity. Just because you don't have the opportunity (just yet), don't get on at someone because they are clearly happier for where they live now. It has took me five long freakin' years to move from a tiny flat (made almost bearable with a nice view) in a city, to my dream area of the moors. I am not rich, but what helped me was this fact: If all of the money in the world was put in one pot, but divided equally to all of us, we would each have FOUR BILLION DOLLARS. It helped me with positive thinking, knowing that this place is full of abundence, and I did deserve my own bit of heaven on earth, I just gotta ask for it to come my way. I have had a very tough few years, but I refuse to surrender to my not so great thoughts and feelings. I get them, but I strive for something better. I insist on it.

Infact, I was also thinking bout going back to nursing, but knowing now what I do about the NHS disease promoters, I have now applied to be a home help carer part time instead. The strange bit is that I am more than satisfied with my lil house where I am, even my lil old car, but I have seen my dream house with the national trust, in the middle of nowhere, with its own spring and big veg garden, and doing this work would help me afford the work that needs doing on it and the higher council tax. I am not trying to be smug, how can I?, I have not been accepted for it yet, but just for the opportunity has really blown me away, that if you really visualise it and go all out for it, YOU CAN and YOU WILL get something better, if you want it. If someone is happy where they are, then all the more kudos, but I know I can feel bliss not just satisfaction, and we all deserve to feel that wherever we live or what vocation we do, spesh seeing as we have all been robbed by our G'ments time and time again.


Yes TPTB are keeping us in lower mentality, at least trying to, because we ourselves, are the ultimate power that be, and ever will be. :p

[armoured_amazon]

^^^ Good post. :)

I'll not buy a house in this country.

[wildhorse]

Thank you Amazon :D

But alas, the topic of what kids see has surfaced...I must get to bed, so will touch only briefly on it...

Since when was it ok to train girls that female empowerment comes from being sexually objectified? To add insult, such images are in music vids, where some 'hot babe' wearing less than a hanky for modesty, dances suggestively like some new age blow up doll on heat, around some guy, fully clothed, doing nothing to warrant her attention, other than hes just lounging watching her perform to his fantasy. Stepford Wife, just turned into Stepford Whore.

Since when was it ok to make light entertainment of sick murders, otherwise known as horror films? Somebody's child/partner/sibling/parent has died in similar circumstances somewhere in the world thanks to some nut being 'influenced' by such films. At the very least, this is someones daily reality, I am sure they will thank the directors of such films for making their misery a box office hit.

If porn was just harmless fun, then why do marriages fail because of it? and why are teenagers developing an unhealthy distorted view of true sexuality? Just ask any teenage lad about his view on pubic hair, it will start with Ewwww and end in Gross. Then ask any girl about her experience with a teenage lad, it usually constructs of a variety of positions and the lad coming on their face. She will then go on to tell you she wants a boob job. Shes already caked in fake bake and has hair extentions, yet still feels the need to wear more eye make up than Lily Savage.

Sex is good, feeling sexy and loving your body is good....debasing it and turning it into something sleazy and disrespectful is unhealthy for future relationships, with ourselves, and with others. I just get a bad bad feeling about all of todays cultures.

Honestly, the Victorians were all about suppression, and now this day and age have swung in the other extreme. Hmmmm swinging....now theres a topic ;)

The variety of media these days makes it near impossible to keep tabs on everything...I keep to my guns regarding what my son watches, then he goes over and stays with his cousins, and my arsehole bro lets them play on Grand Theft Auto on PS3. Says it all really. All one can do is just keep up with the consistency of not allowing it, and explaining why not and hopefully when hormones have calmed down, my son might have taken on board some well adjusted view points.

I really do feel concerned over this generations media - its way over anything I watched and I would nick off school to watch Chubby Brown at my friends house...and thats saying something!! ;)

[runlikehell]

I bet most teenagers have seen 2 girls 1 cup

There's even text speak for 2 girls 1 cup, 2G1C

:confused: Never heard of it? :rolleyes: Sounds Dodgy though!

[brainfreeze]

Thank you Amazon :D

But alas, the topic of what kids see has surfaced...I must get to bed, so will touch only briefly on it...

Since when was it ok to train girls that female empowerment comes from being sexually objectified? To add insult, such images are in music vids, where some 'hot babe' wearing less than a hanky for modesty, dances suggestively like some new age blow up doll on heat, around some guy, fully clothed, doing nothing to warrant her attention, other than hes just lounging watching her perform to his fantasy. Stepford Wife, just turned into Stepford Whore.

Since when was it ok to make light entertainment of sick murders, otherwise known as horror films? Somebody's child/partner/sibling/parent has died in similar circumstances somewhere in the world thanks to some nut being 'influenced' by such films. At the very least, this is someones daily reality, I am sure they will thank the directors of such films for making their misery a box office hit.

If porn was just harmless fun, then why do marriages fail because of it? and why are teenagers developing an unhealthy distorted view of true sexuality? Just ask any teenage lad about his view on pubic hair, it will start with Ewwww and end in Gross. Then ask any girl about her experience with a teenage lad, it usually constructs of a variety of positions and the lad coming on their face. She will then go on to tell you she wants a boob job. Shes already caked in fake bake and has hair extentions, yet still feels the need to wear more eye make up than Lily Savage.

Sex is good, feeling sexy and loving your body is good....debasing it and turning it into something sleazy and disrespectful is unhealthy for future relationships, with ourselves, and with others. I just get a bad bad feeling about all of todays cultures.

Honestly, the Victorians were all about suppression, and now this day and age have swung in the other extreme. Hmmmm swinging....now theres a topic ;)

The variety of media these days makes it near impossible to keep tabs on everything...I keep to my guns regarding what my son watches, then he goes over and stays with his cousins, and my arsehole bro lets them play on Grand Theft Auto on PS3. Says it all really. All one can do is just keep up with the consistency of not allowing it, and explaining why not and hopefully when hormones have calmed down, my son might have taken on board some well adjusted view points.

I really do feel concerned over this generations media - its way over anything I watched and I would nick off school to watch Chubby Brown at my friends house...and thats saying something!! ;)

My kids squealed with laughter at this clip, I can't bear to watch or listen to it for the fear in that childs voice.

We monitor what they watch on tv and the sites they visit on the net but stuff still slips past us, we're not infalible as parents.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQ3YVEDQJgg

PS: I enjoyed your previous post. Good luck with the vision and the house.

[darkovic]

And who is supervising their internet usage? The parents? Kids shouldn't have computers in their rooms, and all accessible OSs should have filters on them.

At the end of the day, you'll defend what you hold dear, and that's fine. Just don't expect everyone to think it's acceptable. Perhaps people need to stop breeding like rats if they can't raise them properly. People don't have to be 'posh' to parent properly. There are families all across the social spectrum that need to sort themselves out.

All you say is how good of a parent you are. How old are your kids?

Wait there, what I hold dear? I'm not defending anything, you are. You're saying your kids are special and you think you have control over what they see LOL riiiiight...

[darkovic]

:confused: Never heard of it? :rolleyes: Sounds Dodgy though!

People being uninformed isn't my concern.

[armoured_amazon]

All you say is how good of a parent you are. How old are your kids?

Wait there, what I hold dear? Talking shat now lad. I'm not defending anything, you are. You're saying your kids are special and you think you have control over what they see LOL riiiiight...

I'm talking about the kids in our school and I didn't say anything about controlling anyone.

I choose not to breed, because I could not look at myself in the mirror if I brought an innocent into THIS society.

[ging]

I'm talking about the kids in our school and I didn't say anything about controlling anyone.

I choose not to breed, because I could not look at myself in the mirror if I brought an innocent into THIS society.


Am I allowed to look in the mirror for bringing an innocent into THIS society that you speak of?

Self-righteous, much.

[armoured_amazon]

Am I allowed to look in the mirror for bringing an innocent into THIS society that you speak of?

Self-righteous, much.

Why should our choices be the same?

Don't feel bad about it. I don't.

[gilly]

Nobody is being self-righteous for excercising their freedom of choice, as to whether or not they think this society is fit for bringing a child into, now are they?!?

Yes Ging, go and have a baby if you want to.

Can't a subject be debated without trying to create personal scuffles?

[armoured_amazon]

Nobody is being self-righteous for excercising their freedom of choice, as to whether or not they think this society is fit for bringing a child into, now are they?!?

Yes Ging, go and have a baby if you want to.

Can't a subject be debated without trying to create personal scuffles?

I choose what to do with my body and expressed my reasons for doing so. I was talking about ME, not others.

[ging]

I choose what to do with my body and expressed my reasons for doing so. I was talking about ME, not others.

Please continue. It will certainly aid the depopulation agenda discussed at length on these forums.

[gilly]

I choose what to do with my body and expressed my reasons for doing so. I was talking about ME, not others.

You've misunderstood my post Armoured Amazon - repeat - noone is being self-righteous for excercising their freedom of choice - i.e., I was defending your previous post! You posted the above at the same time I was posting mine.

[armoured_amazon]

You've misunderstood my post Armoured Amazon - repeat - noone is being self-righteous for excercising their freedom of choice - i.e., I was defending your previous post! You posted the above at the same time I was posting mine.

Sorry :)

@ Ging - Mmkay.

[gilly]

Sorry :)

@ Ging - Mmkay.

No problem. :)

[wildhorse]

Please continue. It will certainly aid the depopulation agenda discussed at length on these forums.

if only more people thought about what kind of world they were bringing a child into.....

unfortunately, most people just think of their own happiness a child could bring them (at its best)

depopulation is indeed a crime when it is inflicted by governments. However, it is an issue that we should think long and hard about, for the kind of world we bring children into, and not "I want three kids so I will have 3 kids" I understand birth and babies and all the wonder they bring is something that is, well, beautiful, but some just have them to make up for all they lack.

1 billion people populated this earth in 1850. It took 150,000 years of modern homo sapiens to get there, yet in the last 150 years, that figure has shot up to nearly 7 billion. That rate of population growth is frightening. I am not suggesting culling like the Newbies would love, but each and every one of us should take it upon ourselves to look at the bigger picture - carry on the way we are going and every bit of land will be houses, or more likely turned into flats, no countryside or private space or free space. Think of your local retail park on Bank Holiday, it would be like that but 10 x worse all of the time. Why...cos you wanted all the kids you could pop out with no thought to the kids they would pop out or the kids they popped out.

Quality of life not quantity :)

I had two gorg babes 10 years apart...thats my lot....I care about what they inherit as adults. Thats all. But if I did not have them...I would wait til Big Bruv was overturned cos most of all I wold want my children to grow in freedom, not in the unseen chains we are living in.

Think thats as extreme as I get ;)

[ging]

But if we all shared your view, where would that leave us?

And if you hadn't already had children, would you be so sure that your view would be the same?

I already have a son, nearly grown up. I feel utterly depressed at the concept of never having a child with my (long term) partner who has no children of his own.

It is an inherent need, desire, RIGHT that I am not letting those fuckers take away from me.

Believe me, I've thought long and hard about the ramifications. Is it selfish? Is it fair? What if? What if? What if?

Anyway, it's all meaningless at the moment. I'm in no position to have a child at the moment anyway.

AND this has gone waaaaaaaaay off topic!

:)

[wildhorse]

But if we all shared your view, where would that leave us?

And if you hadn't already had children, would you be so sure that your view would be the same?

I already have a son, nearly grown up. I feel utterly depressed at the concept of never having a child with my (long term) partner who has no children of his own.

It is an inherent need, desire, RIGHT that I am not letting those fuckers take away from me.

Believe me, I've thought long and hard about the ramifications. Is it selfish? Is it fair? What if? What if? What if?

Anyway, it's all meaningless at the moment. I'm in no position to have a child at the moment anyway.

AND this has gone waaaaaaaaay off topic!

:)

I don't state it is easy but just the fact that you have thought about the what ifs - is all I intended to go with this, as I just wished MORE people REALLY thought like you. I wasnt challenging you to having kids, personally, but just that we all, and certainly the knuckle draggers on J.K should take a big hard look at the whole having a baby thing. It also digs up our choice of partners, as we decide to have children with them. I can see the point some people make about "a child is a blessing not a right"... I myself think that statement is heavy handed, but actually while no, its not a 'right' and it is a 'blessing' but it is something that God gave us in love, and we should honor it carefully as it is sacred. And that includes really knowing who is the potential father of the child we bring into this world. I thought I had a great steady guy, and he turned out to be a narcissist. I was getting married and wanted his babies, was it right in the bigger picture? Did that entiltle me to? No, it was a disaster. Wont make that mistake again...

I am damn sure my view would be the same if I didnt have child. I guess this will be a rabbit hole that could go endless in discussion. The only resolution would be to say "REALLY think about children when you have come to the right place" Easier said than done. I know that 1...jeez...it sounds so simple and easy but it is fundamentally true.

I did not state that TPTB should take that away from you, I am not endorsing that, just that people should really put more thought into having children that grow into adults, and not just having 'babies'. The other side of the coin is to accept when it is our time to go. Yet another rabbit hole.

I do believe tho, that all will be ok. All will be in balance.

[runlikehell]

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