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gripit
02-05-2009, 06:43 AM
from MSN Finance, lol.

http://img79.imageshack.us/img79/1549/emotmarijoint.gif (http://img79.imageshack.us/my.php?image=emotmarijoint.gif)

A cure for the U.S.: Marijuana taxes (http://finance.sympatico.msn.ca/investing/insight/article.aspx?cp-documentid=19494327)



In the desperate U.S. economy, some argue that legalizing and taxing marijuana could plug multibillion-dollar holes in U.S. government coffers.
By John Dyer
May 01, 2009

Daniel Stein says the salvation of U.S. taxpayers could be marijuana.

As Washington breaks the bank on Wall Street bailouts, President Barack Obama's stimulus package and other spend-now, pay-later measures, most observers agree that politicians will eventually need to increase revenue or cut spending to cover the federal government's debts.

Stein believes Washington could begin to balance its books now if politicians would take a serious look at his industry. The owner of two retail outlets that he claims generate $1 million in revenue annually, Stein says he pays around $80,000 a year in sales taxes to the state of California. But the federal government, which does not acknowledge Stein's sales as legitimate commerce, gets nothing from his business.

Sound odd? Not if you know that Stein sells marijuana.

* Video: See inside a cannabis dispensary

In fact, because U.S. federal authorities have spent time trying to close his and other medical-marijuana clubs, Washington is losing money on him.

Imagine how much the feds would save if they stopped cracking down on sellers, Stein says.

"Cannabis is good for the economy," he said. "It's been here the whole time, but it's had a bad rap the entire time."

As more people begin to see the merits in Stein's logic, that bad rap is changing. While legalization, decriminalization and the medical use of marijuana continue to be debated in terms of public health, lawmakers and policy analysts are increasingly touting the economic benefits of regulating and taxing weed, which the Office of National Drug Control Policy says is the most popular illegal drug in the U.S.

Critics of legalizing marijuana say the potential economic benefits of regulating and taxing the drug would obscure the less-tangible, long-term downsides of making it more prevalent in society.

"The argument wholly ignores the issue of the connection between marijuana and criminal activity and also the larger picture of substance abuse," said David Capeless, the district attorney of Berkshire County in Massachusetts and the president of the state's district attorneys association. "It simply sends a bad message to kids about substance abuse in general, which is a wrong message, that it's not a big deal."

A 2004 report by the drug policy office said drugs cost Americans more than $180 billion related to health care, lost productivity and crime in 2002. That study lumped the effects of marijuana in with more-dangerous drugs, such as cocaine and heroin.

But marijuana advocates say history is on their side. They muster arguments similar to those that led to repealing Prohibition during the Great Depression.

"In the early 1930s, one of the reasons that alcohol was brought back was because government revenue was plummeting," Harvard economist Jeff Miron said. "There are some parallels to that now."

Definitive figures on the size of the untapped marijuana market don't exist. It's a gray market, after all. But there are plenty of studies indicating we are not talking about chump change.

In a 2007 study, Jon Gettman, a senior fellow at George Mason University's School of Public Policy, valued the American marijuana trade at $113 billion annually. Between drug enforcement and potential taxes, the federal government and the states were losing almost $42 billion a year by keeping marijuana illegal, the study indicated. Gettman is a former staff member of NORML, the National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws, a U.S. non-profit that lobbies on Capitol Hill for marijuana legalization.

"It's a very large, significant economic phenomenon, and it is diverting an incredible amount of money from the taxable economy," Gettman said.

* Video: Why U.S. should legalize pot: lawyer

Miron says he is interested in the topic as a libertarian who believes the government shouldn't ban any drugs. He offers more-conservative numbers, estimating that federal and state treasuries would gain more than $6 billion annually if marijuana were taxed like alcohol or tobacco. At the same time, relaxing laws against use of marijuana would save nearly $8 billion in legal costs, he says.

The Obama administration seems to be inching toward a more permissive stance on marijuana. Last month, U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder announced he would end raids on clubs like Stein's, fulfilling a pledge Obama had made on the campaign trail.

"It's a major break from the 'just say no' mentality," said Allen St. Pierre, the executive director of NORML, referring to Holder's announcement.

Stein is somewhat relieved. The raids had been wreaking havoc on California's budding marijuana industry, he says. Two years ago he was forced to move one of his clubs, The Higher Path, to a new location on Sunset Boulevard in Los Angeles, after the Drug Enforcement Administration sent his landlord a letter saying agents could seize the building.

"Medical marijuana is very, very satisfying, but it's very nerve-racking and dangerous," Stein said.

St. Pierre says 13 states have adopted laws to allow medical marijuana, while an additional handful have decriminalized possession, meaning the penalties associated with marijuana are negligible.

Of course, critics of decriminalization are also vocal. Calvina Fay, the executive director of the Drug Free America Foundation, says Gettman, Miron and others fail to account for marijuana's adverse side effects, from lethargy to impaired driving to tendencies among weed smokers to try more-serious drugs. "Those who are using drugs are less productive than those who aren't," Fay said.

A spokesman for the drug policy office declined to comment, saying the office wanted to wait until the Senate has confirmed Obama's drug czar nominee, Seattle Police Chief Gil Kerlikowske.

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But according to the FBI's most recent data, approximately 870,000 people in the U.S. were arrested on marijuana violations in 2007. Nearly 15 million Americans use marijuana on a monthly basis, according to the latest National Survey on Drug Use and Health. The same study found that more than 100 million Americans had tried marijuana at least once in their lives. Advocates of decriminalization say those statistics argue against the vision of mass lassitude put forward by their opponents.

"Most people either did the drug themselves or their friends did," Miron said. "They know those extremes are not right."

California has come closest to outright legalization of the marijuana industry. Sacramento already collects around $18 million in sales taxes a year from $200 million worth of medical-marijuana purchases, according to data supplied by California's State Board of Equalization. Now Assemblyman Tom Ammiano, a San Francisco Democrat, is sponsoring new legislation that would legalize marijuana completely -- and tax it. The state estimates the proposal could generate $1.3 billion a year.

"The war on drugs has failed," Ammiano said. "It seems to me there is across both aisles that assessment, and California is in an egregious economic abyss. The economic situation makes (legalization) viable."

The pro-marijuana lobby argues that U.S. agriculture could expand significantly if farmers were allowed to openly cultivate weed. In a 2006 study, Gettman calculated that marijuana was one of the biggest cash crops in the U.S., with 56 million plants worth almost $36 million.

In the United Kingdom, where restrictions on marijuana research are less onerous than in the U.S., companies such as GW Pharmaceuticals are moving quickly to develop other drugs from the plant. In the company's 2008 annual report, GW executives said they had received approval to market Sativex, a cannabis-derived painkiller, in Canada. The report said the company is seeking approval of the drug from European regulators and is working with the U.S. Food and Drug Administration as well.

A spokesman for the company, John Dineen of the London public-relations firm Financial Dynamics, says executives would prefer not to be quoted in a story about the economic consequences of marijuana legalization.

David Goldman, a patron of the Green Cross, a medical-marijuana dispensary in San Francisco, had no such compunctions. To Goldman, medical marijuana looks like a godsend that should be studied and expanded. After groin surgery a few years ago, he found he had troubling reactions to other painkillers, and he turned to marijuana.

"The constant pain is something I need to accept and is something for which cannabis has been invaluable," he said. "Why should we cede medical cannabis research to the U.K. when some of the best minds in medicine are in this country?"

crystal_ascension
02-05-2009, 06:57 AM
Maybe weed will save us all! Imagine the illuminati smoked pot and started laughing thier asses off at themselves for being such dipsh*t's! World peace right there! Lol, then we could sneak around outside their Bilderberg meeting and make weird noises to make them paranoid! We could bribe them to destroy all their weapons and declare world peace with candy!:D

lordzoma
02-05-2009, 07:24 AM
The illuminati does smoke pot. And as they do it they laugh about all the human breeders.

They're not human, remember.

mightiswrong
02-05-2009, 09:18 AM
I find the idea of taxing weed insulting and disrespectful of the herb. Turning the herb into a source of funding for the war on terra is a joke. This story is a whitewash.

norton
02-05-2009, 11:30 AM
i had the very same idea! and i've emailed the home office (uk) to suggest they do it.


fingers crossed!!

It worked in holland!

mightiswrong
02-05-2009, 12:27 PM
The dutch are total crooks taxing the herb. I would rather it stayed illegal than see the herb funding the NWO in an overt way.

norton
02-05-2009, 12:37 PM
The dutch are total crooks taxing the herb. I would rather it stayed illegal than see the herb funding the NWO in an overt way.

but if you get searched and have bit of weed on you, if the copper is in a mood they can have you arrested. it's such a waste of everyones time. considering the benefits of the actual plant as well, it makes sense to legalise it

mightiswrong
02-05-2009, 12:54 PM
Yeah there are some statutes I believe but under common law marijuana can't be illegal.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bE8rfefPQ24

It may make sense to decriminalise it but no civilised nation would even dream of taxing foods or herbs.

drhemp
02-05-2009, 12:55 PM
The dutch are total crooks taxing the herb. I would rather it stayed illegal than see the herb funding the NWO in an overt way.

The illegal drugs trade funds the NWO, corrupt government agencies and security services facilitate and run the trade and the proceeds are used to fund illegal government black-ops and supplement their incomes. How do you think they funded 9/11? Why do you think there is more heroin coming out of Afghanistan since the invasion?

Cannabis users should not be criminalised and potentially imprisoned for using a herb that is less dangerous and less addictive than legally available alcohol and tobacco.

norton
02-05-2009, 12:58 PM
It may make sense to decriminalise it but no civilised nation would even dream of taxing foods or herbs.


dream of taxing food or herbs? erm.....

mightiswrong
02-05-2009, 01:10 PM
The illegal drugs trade funds the NWO, corrupt government agencies and security services facilitate and run the trade and the proceeds are used to fund illegal government black-ops and supplement their incomes. How do you think they funded 9/11? Why do you think there is more heroin coming out of Afghanistan since the invasion?

Cannabis users should not be criminalised and potentially imprisoned for using a herb that is less dangerous and less addictive than legally available alcohol and tobacco.

I'm all for decriminalisation but do not support taxation full stop. Any kind of taxation (since it is theft) but especially taxation on food and herbs (herbs are food). Only barbaric nations allow the taxation of foods and herbs.

whiterain
02-05-2009, 02:28 PM
it would be so fcking funny if they legalised it and tried to tax it. ok they may make a bit of cash cos not everyone wants to grow, but it essentially lets people know that its ok to grow it. try controlling it then and theyd be fcked. as others have said tho its not even properly illegal now tho

ps nice pic MIW

terryemm
02-05-2009, 02:42 PM
So they're literally going to deal drugs to cover their own fuck up?...

batou
02-05-2009, 02:43 PM
I pay tax on my food :/

I'd love to be able to go down to the store and get a quarter oz of good stuff, but I can do the same thing right now except it's some dudes house.
I don't know.. tax it don't tax it.. I don't care, just dont make it expensive and keep it pure. Fuck, just let us grow our own in peace.

flickflack
02-05-2009, 02:51 PM
It may make sense to decriminalise it but no civilised nation would even dream of taxing foods or herbs.

I believe taxing food is quite common here in Europe. It's possible that I'm wrong though, but I doubt it.

darketernal
02-05-2009, 02:55 PM
The illuminati does smoke pot. And as they do it they laugh about all the human breeders.

They're not human, remember.

Yes members of the brotherhood do smoke pot, and I've smoked with a few of them in my past.

The illegal drugs trade funds the NWO, corrupt government agencies and security services facilitate and run the trade and the proceeds are used to fund illegal government black-ops and supplement their incomes. How do you think they funded 9/11? Why do you think there is more heroin coming out of Afghanistan since the invasion?

Cannabis users should not be criminalised and potentially imprisoned for using a herb that is less dangerous and less addictive than legally available alcohol and tobacco.

And Dr. Hemp hit the nail right on the head. It will not be legalized because the money they make off the illegal trade of drugs is more valuable than tax $ due to lack of public oversight. A billion dollars off the books is x5 as valuable as a billion dollars you must account for on paper to the people.

darketernal
02-05-2009, 02:56 PM
So they're literally going to deal drugs to cover their own fuck up?...

See my previous statement.

gilly
02-05-2009, 02:58 PM
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/mar/30/peter-preston-food-vat

Exerpt here.

... Meanwhile, join me on a little voyage around the taxes we already have - VAT on food.

It's difficult, turning over 17 pages of officialdom's finest detail, to fight back a grin. "Starch is zero-rated: but this does not apply to starch for stiffening shirt collars"; "Exotic meat - horse, ostrich, crocodile, kangaroo etc - zero-rated; but Live Horses, not a recognised food species, see Notice 701/15". It's also quite possible to see some general reasons behind HM Revenue and Customs' rhymes. Snacks - whether crisps, nuts, ice creams or sweets - are mostly out of luck, and carrying an extra 15% until 1 January 2010, when 17.5% returns. But then, in a potty, piecemeal way, everything goes to podge.

Take cakes and biscuits, for instance. If they're "wholly or partly covered in chocolate or some product similar in taste or appearance", then they're 15%. But millionaire's shortcake, with a shortcake base, a layer of caramel and usually one of chocolate, too? That's zero. Fruitcakes, meringues, flapjack, marshmallows, teacakes? Zero again. Florentines? Full wack. Chocolate chip biscuits? Plus 15% (like "gingerbread men decorated with chocolate unless this amounts to no more than a couple of dots for the eyes"). But bourbon biscuits stuffed with chocolate, and Jaffa cakes, waddle home free - just like rum babas

mightiswrong
02-05-2009, 03:24 PM
It's difficult to find this information but I was able to find the following VAT on food table:
http://www.hotelleriesuisse.ch/doc/doc_download.cfm?uuid=1A56B7861143DAD1545520ADFA36 5D6A&&IRACER_AUTOLINK&&

gripit
02-05-2009, 05:09 PM
The big problem with legalization I see, at least in Canada...is that they'll make growing laws similar to the draconian American laws...and they'll take down all the compassion clubs that we buy from (if you have a medical marijuana license) to force you to buy from them. The American laws are insane, so is the price of good weed down there, ridiculous.

drhemp
02-05-2009, 05:21 PM
The UK Government are acting illegally by classifying cannabis as a Class B drug, as the Misuse of Drugs acts states that classification should be based on evidence.

Please listen to the interview on the front page of this web site with Ed Stratton who is refusing a caution for his medicinal use of cannabis and seeking a Judicial Review of the law to stop this Government's abuse of power http://www.drugequality.org/ - his arguments which came from Casey Hardision (hhttp://www.freecasey.org/) who is serving 20 years for producing LSD (the longest sentence ever handed out in the UK for this).

gripit
02-05-2009, 05:27 PM
who is serving 20 years for producing LSD (the longest sentence ever handed out in the UK for this).

20 YEARS??????!!!!!!!!!!! OMFG http://img391.imageshack.us/img391/5429/emotmad.gif (http://img391.imageshack.us/my.php?image=emotmad.gif)

romas
02-05-2009, 08:10 PM
lol they don't even give that much to some murderers, my personal opinion LSD opens peoples eyes, hence harder to controll that's the only reason they put such rediculous laws.

romas
02-05-2009, 09:12 PM
The illegal drugs trade funds the NWO, corrupt government agencies and security services facilitate and run the trade and the proceeds are used to fund illegal government black-ops and supplement their incomes. How do you think they funded 9/11? Why do you think there is more heroin coming out of Afghanistan since the invasion?

Cannabis users should not be criminalised and potentially imprisoned for using a herb that is less dangerous and less addictive than legally available alcohol and tobacco.



Spot on, thanks for bringing back some logic to this forum from time to time ;)