God is not religious! [Archive] - David Icke's Official Forums

amethyst

27-04-2009, 08:04 PM

God is not religious?

[QUOTE]The definition of religion is a good one, size-of-light. It says, "orgainized approach to spirituality".. often called a path. Seems to me, God does sanction religion through his representatives here on Earth, such as Jesus, Buddha,, or one of their ordained followers.

I will suggest that Jesus never came to start any sort of religion whatsoever. I can surmise that Buddha didn't either.

He (Jesus) did however discuss in great detail how one can have a relationship with God thorough His Spirit.

Man started the "religion" of Christianity (a "false" representation of God) we commonly know of today. It's all based on the outward performance and rituals. The trappings of religion have the "appearance" of wisdom, but it is illusionary and false.

God's kingdom can be found within.

For example, amethyst, you say "it's about relationship with God". That may well be, but how does one establish a relationship with God if not through a religion?

A relationship with God does not come from "religion".

It comes from the "Spirit" of God who teaches all things.

How do I find relationship with God, if I'm ignorant, sick, hopelessly gone astray?

By simply "asking" God. A lot don't realise that you can ask, invite God to have a "relationship" with you. It happens when your spirit is touched and transformed by God's Spirit.

And , it could be delusional for a person to believe they have a perfect relationship with God, no matter how enlightened you may be.. This is where religion comes in. Sort of a guidepost along THE WAY.

Religion is a substitute for a genuine relationship with God.

Find a religion that suits you. Follow the teachings, and find a teacher you trust to help you over the mountains and to see the many pit-falls. For one to depend on ones your own judgement in these matters could be foolishness.

I say, develope a "relationship" with the Spirit of God, not a person or a religion.

I know if I didn't have scripture and authority to guide me, I would be quite lost. Maybe you are different. Could be you are. But to say that God doesn't sanction religion practice?

The comprehension and understanding of scripture becomes enlightened when the Spirit teaches one the meaning of those scriptures.

Without the Spirit of God breathing on those scriptures and illuminating them to one's mind, there is little understanding or comprehension of them.

amethyst

27-04-2009, 08:11 PM

You should read A Course In Miracles.
God knows only love, so anything that is not love, he does not know. He has no preference for ANYTHING. He loves everyone equally forever no matter what. He will never prefer one thing to another.

True. I believe God does not favor one individual over another. God is love and God loves everyone equally.

But everyone does not believe nor accept's God's love for whatever reason.

It's up to the individual wether they want or desire a relationship with God.

Some are not ready. Some do not understand. Some think God's hates them. But this is contrary to what the Spirit who is from God, teaches.

size_of_light

27-04-2009, 08:15 PM

I've looked at a little bit of all the major religious texts to know that they all contain tremendous amounts of soaring spiritual insight, poetry and wisdom and if you make a real heart connection with any of them I think you should back yourself and strive to embody those things that uplift and free your spirit with every fibre of your being.

The key is to realise that you have to become those things you find spiritually noble and purify yourself to the point where there's no difference between you and the living examples that have gone before you as guides.

It's easy to fall victim to laziness though, and lose that heart connection and just rely on the dogma that can be found in some spiritual texts and mistake robotic adherence to certain 'laws' and rituals for real spiritual practice.

Trying to please some exotic force that is outside of you and bigger than you is a major pitfall because the motivation becomes a very self-serving one although it's so subtle that it's often difficult to detect that motive within yourself.

When you're guided by the idea that there's this big almighty thing out there and you, being a tiny, little insignificant thing, can gain protection and favours by being meek and pitiful and offering blind obedience and praise to this big powerful thing, then I think you're limiting your own potential.

amethyst

27-04-2009, 08:21 PM

When you're guided by the idea that there's this big almighty thing out there and you, being a tiny, little insignificant little thing, can gain protection and favours by being meek and pitiful and offering blind obedience and praise to this big powerful thing, then I think you're limiting your own potential.

But the "all that is" is pretty big, don't you think?

I feel we recieve truth from the Spirit of the "all that is" in chunks, in little pieces, because we can't handle the whole unverse in our little selves all at once.

The universe is too big. We, in our finite beings (while here on earth) would cease to exist.

Trying to please some exotic force that is outside of you and bigger than you is a major pitfall because the motivation becomes a very self-serving one although it's so subtle that it's often difficult to detect that motive within yourself.

The Spirit (from the "all-that-is") can help you detect your motives within yourself. That way it's not self serving.

size_of_light

27-04-2009, 08:40 PM

But the "all that is" is pretty big, don't you think?

I feel we recieve truth from the Spirit of the "all that is" in chunks, in little pieces, because we can't handle the whole unverse in our little selves all at once.

The universe is too big. We, in our finite beings (while here on earth) would cease to exist.

The Spirit (from the "all-that-is") can help you detect your motives within yourself. That way it's not self serving.

Whatever works for you, but I know from my own experiences with Buddhism that even though the teachings are at pains to point out that there's no external deity, no saviour, and that the master and the disciple are completely inseparable - the master isn't superior to the student in any way, shape or form but just acts as a perfect mirror of the students own potential - subtle divisions can creep in and you have to constantly correct yourself so you're not expressing devotion to something imaginary outside of yourself that you consider more powerful.

Whenever I do that, my practice starts to become really hollow, depressing and dead, and fear about repercussions and all sorts of neurotic forms of guilt start to manifest and completely throw me off track.

It's a bit like learning to ride a bike where at the start you throw your energy too far in one direction and it doesn't work, then you toss yourself back the other way and it still doesn't work, and eventually you get your own sense of balance and see how you can move forward in the right direction in a very natural way.

dedicate

27-04-2009, 09:06 PM

Seems to me, if there was a Jesus who didn't want people to follow a religion,, then he wouldn't go to temple to make the point but he did go to temple. And he did practice a religion (Passover, washing feet, Sabbath etc..). And I wouldn't be saying things like, "Religion was made for people,, not people for religion".

If he was not into people having religion.. he wouldn't go to temple and teach scripture. And he would say things like, "Religion is of no purpose".

Buddha and Buddhism does not like to use the term Religion,, because it is a Western Term and does not fit with their believes. But still.. JUAN and Dharma are imporant factors in Buddhism and could be translated as "religion". Dharma,, i.e. religion,,, is something the Buddha often talks on.

size_of_light

27-04-2009, 09:10 PM

Buddha and Buddhism does not like to use the term Religion,

True. Buddhism also doesn't use the term 'Buddhism'.

You don't have to be a 'Buddhist' to be a 'Buddhist'.

More Western terms. :p

hellosatellites

27-04-2009, 09:20 PM

phildee3

27-04-2009, 09:22 PM

God is not religious!

Of course not.
Religion is an attempt to bring one closer to God!

Neither does "God" advocate following any sort of "religion'

God doesn't advocate anything.
God IS; period.

It is about 'relationship" with God....not religion

What is?

Religion = separation/division

Wrong.
re = again.
ligio = to join
religion = a way to join again with our divine source.

Relationship = union/completion

Wrong.
Enemies have a relationship - one of enmity.
A relationship requires no more than some form of interaction.

phildee3

27-04-2009, 09:23 PM

number_6

27-04-2009, 10:46 PM

He loves everyone equally forever no matter what.

Is this the same god that supposedly killed everybody (except for his favoured few) in the great flood?

adimon

27-04-2009, 11:04 PM

Not sure who 'God' is, but if he doesn't like it, he can fuck off, since a consistent, systematic approach to spirituality, like any other task, is more likely to yield the most efficient and effective results.

Amen.

This thread may as well be called "Intercourse is not sexual"

If one claims to know the mind of 'god' then they are religious. Disagreeing with a whole host of other believers as to his thoughts, motivations and rules doesn't make them any less religious, it makes them solipsistic.

EDIT: I must say that the Xtians on this forum create a vast number of threads on the topic of god...doesnt fit for me with their claims they aren't trying to convince anyone. Just a thought ;)

phildee3

27-04-2009, 11:22 PM

Is this the same god that supposedly killed everybody (except for his favoured few) in the great flood?

No, that was YHVH.

There have been several who have loved everybody unconditionally,
but the almighty, omnipresent, all-that-is doesn't love (vb.) -

S/he is love (n.).

amethyst

28-04-2009, 01:57 AM

[QUOTE=dedicate;956211]Seems to me, if there was a Jesus who didn't want people to follow a religion,, then he wouldn't go to temple to make the point but he did go to temple. And he did practice a religion (Passover, washing feet, Sabbath etc..). And I wouldn't be saying things like, "Religion was made for people,, not people for religion".

If he was not into people having religion.. he wouldn't go to temple and teach scripture. And he would say things like, "Religion is of no purpose".

Christ superceeds religion.

While he walked on the earth yes, he partook of passover, but in His death He became the passover lamb himself. He fulfilled the all righteous requirements of religion and the jewish law, in His death and resurrection.

amethyst

28-04-2009, 02:01 AM

[QUOTE=phildee3;956255]Of course not.
Religion is an attempt to bring one closer to God!

Then why hasn't religion brought most closer to God? Would you agree that religion as practiced by man and made up by man, divides?

God doesn't advocate anything.
God IS; period.

Yes, I agree. God is.

miracles

28-04-2009, 02:13 AM

According to my Bible (Wikipedia :D ), 'Religion' is defined as such:

A religion is an organized approach to human spirituality which usually encompasses a set of narratives, symbols, beliefs and practices, often with a supernatural or transcendent quality, that give meaning to the practitioner's experiences of life through reference to a higher power or truth.[1] It may be expressed through prayer, ritual, meditation, music and art, among other things. It may focus on specific supernatural, metaphysical, and moral claims about reality (the cosmos and human nature) which may yield a set of religious laws, ethics, and a particular lifestyle. Religion also encompasses ancestral or cultural traditions, writings, history, and mythology, as well as personal faith and religious experience.

I've never liked the word 'religion' because of all the crazy connotations, and I've never looked at a definition of the word until now, but the one above seems perfectly fine and acceptable to me.

Not sure who 'God' is, but if he doesn't like it, he can fuck off, since a consistent, systematic approach to spirituality, like any other task, is more likely to yield the most efficient and effective results.

I'm not sure if it's a scientific possibility for something omnipresent to "Fuck off" as you put it. :D I reckon everyone is religious.

amethyst

28-04-2009, 02:20 AM

Always a hugely valid point, imo - the aim of buddhas teachings was to help people become buddhas, not to make buddhists.

And in the same vein, the aim of jesus christ was to help people become christs, not christians.

High ideals on both counts :)

I agree. Jesus Christ wanted to help people to become christs (becoming like the master) not christians. As we know "chistianity" today, most christians are not even taught that they can have a relationship with Christ themselves.

They leave it up to the priests and the preachers to tell them what's acceptable or not and who knows if the priest even has a relationship with the Spirit of God.

If you know them by their fruits as Christ said, you would conclude that they don't even know God because so many are sexually abusing the parishioners, begging for money or guilt tripping their flocks with condemnation. "Do as I say and not as I do" is their motto.

Christians are taught to become political. Christians are taught to follow rules. Christians are taught to be passive. They are taught to follow the pastor or the priest, who is a man and not God. They are taught to practice a religion rather than having a relationship with Christ themselves through the Spirit of God joining with their spirit.

miracles

28-04-2009, 02:40 AM

[QUOTE]

Then why hasn't religion brought most closer to God? Would you agree that religion as practiced by man and made up by man, divides?

Yes, I agree. God is.

Religion is practised legalistically or is practised spiritually. Religion in and off itself is not a dirty word.

James 1:26 If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.

(I guess that cancels me out, ooops :D)

James 1:27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, [and] to keep himself unspotted from the world.

Religion is an action program, it's not a talk fest. I've become very spotted by the world on these threads, shame on me.

amethyst

28-04-2009, 02:53 AM

Amen.

This thread may as well be called "Intercourse is not sexual"

If one claims to know the mind of 'god' then they are religious. Disagreeing with a whole host of other believers as to his thoughts, motivations and rules doesn't make them any less religious, it makes them solipsistic.

EDIT: I must say that the Xtians on this forum create a vast number of threads on the topic of god...doesnt fit for me with their claims they aren't trying to convince anyone. Just a thought ;)

This thread may as well be called "Intercourse is not sexual"

Intercourse can be sexual as well as spiritual when there is a oneness of mind, body and spirit engaged in the act.

Then there's the fast food version.

If one claims to know the mind of 'god' then they are religious. Disagreeing with a whole host of other believers as to his thoughts, motivations and rules doesn't make them any less religious, it makes them solipsistic.

My whole point of the thread is religion doesn't = relationship with God.

Religion is religion.

God is God.

Religion= outward.

Relationship = inward
(because it takes place within a person connecting with the Spirit of God)

You can't have a relationship with religion. But you can have a relationship with God.

amethyst

28-04-2009, 03:04 AM

James 1:27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, [and] to keep himself unspotted from the world.

Religion is an action program, it's not a talk fest. I've become very spotted by the world on these threads, shame on me.

Maybe the translators used the word "religion" in this context, but I wouldn't call it religion.

I would call it the outworking of kindness that comes from a relationship with the "all-that-is" God, that goes on inside a person when someone is prompted by the Spirit to go and do a good deed- NOT because someone else tells them to, but the Spirit is placing it on their heart to do so.

Sort of like knowing intuitively that your heart is prompting you to do something....and the prompting comes from the "all-that-is".

miracles

28-04-2009, 03:55 AM

Maybe the translators used the word "religion" in this context, but I wouldn't call it religion.

I would call it the outworking of kindness that comes from a relationship with the "all-that-is" God, that goes on inside a person when someone is prompted by the Spirit to go and do a good deed- NOT because someone else tells them to, but the Spirit is placing it on their heart to do so.

Sort of like knowing intuitively that your heart is prompting you to do something....and the prompting comes from the "all-that-is".

it's translated from the greek word threskeia which means ceremonial observence in worship, pious.

So to be religious is to be worshipping God with actions of worship and living a life of piety.

Relationship is not only inward, it is outward aswell demonstating and showing of acts of love. Love is a verb etc, religion is actions. Your right you dont have to be in Relationship with God to be religeous. But in the Christian context true religion is acts of love and service to those who are in the greatest need of it. So in essence, God is religeous.

amethyst

28-04-2009, 04:13 AM

it's translated from the greek word threskeia which means ceremonial observence in worship, pious.

So to be religious is to be worshipping God with actions of worship and living a life of piety.

Relationship is not only inward, it is outward aswell demonstating and showing of acts of love. Love is a verb etc, religion is actions. Your right you dont have to be in Relationship with God to be religeous. But in the Christian context true religion is acts of love and service to those who are in the greatest need of it. So in essence, God is religeous.

But my point was, the outward is a manifestation of the inward workings of the Spirit of God inside a person. What comes out, came from within first. When you are listening and in agreement with the Spirit, the desire to want to do good things comes out of that. It's not a religious "work" for religions sake. It's a manifestation of your relationship with the Spirit of God inside of you.

miracles

28-04-2009, 04:44 AM

But my point was, the outward is a manifestation of the inward workings of the Spirit of God inside a person. What comes out, came from within first. When you are listening and in agreement with the Spirit, the desire to want to do good things comes out of that. It's not a religious "work" for religions sake. It's a manifestation of your relationship with the Spirit of God inside of you.

I agree :)

amethyst

28-04-2009, 05:19 AM

I agree :)

Did you ever consider that it was the 'religious' elite of that time that had Christ crucified? The "religious" hated him because He threatened the status quo. He was doing all sorts of miracles and healing people, and doing it in God's name. That threatened them because they themselves weren't healing people. They could care less about the people (the sheeple) "beneath" them. All they cared about was looking 'holy" to the masses,and having the best tables in Jerusalem's dining hot spots.

miracles

28-04-2009, 05:23 AM

Did you ever consider that it was the 'religious' elite of that time that had Christ crucified? The "religious" hated him because He threatened the status quo. He was doing all sorts of miracles and healing people, and doing it in God's name. That threatened them because they themselves weren't healing people. They could care less about the people (the sheeple) "beneath" them. All they cared about was looking 'holy" to the masses,and having the best tables in Jerusalem's dining hot spots.

Yes I am aware of the religious Pharasees of course. I just think words get a bad rap, people dont know what words really mean. They just assume negative connotations and assume thats what they mean for example

religion
Dogma
Fundemental
christianity
God
Jesus Christ
The Holy Bible

These are not bad words or dirty words, but people assume that they are based on feeling and emotions and ignorance.

Thats my point. Thats all.

amethyst

28-04-2009, 05:29 AM

Yes I am aware of the religious Pharasees of course. I just think words get a bad rap, people dont know what words really mean. They just assume negative connotations and assume thats what they mean for example

religion
Dogma
Fundemental
christianity
God
Jesus Christ
The Holy Bible

These are not bad words or dirty words, but people assume that they are based on feeling and emotions and ignorance.

Thats my point. Thats all.

O.K., I understand your point.

ex_anser_ovo

28-04-2009, 06:42 AM

This is a good topic amethyst.

I think a lot of bad reps are induced from long stints of miscommunication, and over extension of authority.

Sometimes I think many religious beliefs are tuning into some very important things, but somewhere down the line certain facets of the institution become private interest groups.
And the repercussions of that, are that those who don't belong to the religion just tune the whole thing out because of how the self interest groups make the whole appear.

It is kinda like governments. People believe the government is evil and has a massive dark agenda.
The government as a whole is trying its best, but is really a giant version of the Brady Bunch kids.
Because they don't have an Alice to smack them around and tell them what to do, they are often very polarized and disjointed which causes many groups within the government to separately seek aid from private interest groups...which becomes a total mess of lies and avoiding being blamed when it fails.

thetonic

28-04-2009, 07:23 AM

[QUOTE=dedicate;955995]God is not religious?

I will suggest that Jesus never came to start any sort of religion whatsoever. I can surmise that Buddha didn't either.

He (Jesus) did however discuss in great detail how one can have a relationship with God thorough His Spirit.

Man started the "religion" of Christianity (a "false" representation of God) we commonly know of today. It's all based on the outward performance and rituals. The trappings of religion have the "appearance" of wisdom, but it is illusionary and false.

God's kingdom can be found within.

A relationship with God does not come from "religion".

It comes from the "Spirit" of God who teaches all things.

By simply "asking" God. A lot don't realise that you can ask, invite God to have a "relationship" with you. It happens when your spirit is touched and transformed by God's Spirit.

Religion is a substitute for a genuine relationship with God.

I say, develope a "relationship" with the Spirit of God, not a person or a religion.

The comprehension and understanding of scripture becomes enlightened when the Spirit teaches one the meaning of those scriptures.

Without the Spirit of God breathing on those scriptures and illuminating them to one's mind, there is little understanding or comprehension of them.

good stuff amethyst!

illuminati downfall

28-04-2009, 08:46 AM

I agree that God is not religious. In fact I have so often thought that when God sees religion today he, (and I only say he because I need some easy way to refer to him and "he" is the simplest way. I think best would be he/she/it) is to say the least disgusted by the whole idea. I just can't wrap my mind around how he could be happy to see his own people, and of course we are all God's people no matter what call ourselves, fight and kill each other in his name. I can't imagine what kind of god would really be pleased to hear his own children all claim to be "right" and all the rest "wrong" or "deceived." IMO most of humanity, myself included, is not real able to fully understand the idea of what god or a creator type force is. Maybe many could once, but then it was somehow corrupted, I don;t know. But it seems impossible to do so now. To put it in a simple way, we are all here and we know we are alive and that we came to be so in this life, because our parents created us in physical form. Yet few people recall actually being born. So then, I think it's likely that in much the same way, we simply can't recall being created by god. We have our parents here to help us learn, thus we grew up knowing what we are on a human level. God however does not walk among us, and so we never know him the same way. It all remains such a mystery. People, it seems, need to find ways to explain things we cannot comprehend, hence the concept of religion. So many people want to understand god and every one of them seems to think they are the ones to get it right. (Human ego at work here.) Religion sadly seems to have become so much about fear and control and not even about god anymore. God never wanted us to fear him and I think now and many people do. People can easily see him as a being of anger and rage, and a being who really has true favorites among his children. I'm sure those associations are not what he would have wanted from us. :(

That being said, I don't feel that religion itself is a bad thing. I am very interested in religions and I think they all have a good degree of positivity within them. I myself am just another simple human being seeking to know who or what god is and is not. Any path one may take is a good thing as it leads to potential enlightenment and higher understanding. however when it becomes a cause to hurt others in any way, I can't see god being happy with it.

phildee3

28-04-2009, 08:46 AM

Then why hasn't religion brought most closer to God?

Because it's been hijacked by elites with a political agenda - to divide and conquor.
The reason it (religion) has been so intently targeted by them is that, in it's pure form, it unites.

Would you agree that religion as practiced by man and made up by man, divides?

Politics divides.
Religion is used to divide, by corrupting it.

phildee3

28-04-2009, 08:49 AM

My whole point of the thread is religion doesn't = relationship with God.

Practiced properly, it does.

tusme

28-04-2009, 10:43 AM

Hi Illuminati downfall

I think best would be he/she/it) is to say the least disgusted by the whole idea.
Disgusted, imho, only because of mankind's choice, through religion, attempting to express Truth...hmm, personally, not sure it did, tbh!!

I just can't wrap my mind around how he could be happy to see his own people, and of course we are all God's people no matter what call ourselves, fight and kill each other in his name.
Through our choices, including religion, if we end up killing each other as a result, then, even GOD cannot interfere in the process of Truth, expressing itself...as that result.

Btw, it's very likely, GOD (Truth), wasn't happy with us (mankind) choosing religion in the first place...but, as we did, even then, Truth still had to express itself as Truth...without bias, emotion or preference...etc, etc

I can't imagine what kind of god would really be pleased to hear his own children all claim to be "right" and all the rest "wrong" or "deceived."
GOD is only pleased, if and when Truth is expressed...regardless of who is right/wrong/decieved...

IMO most of humanity, myself included, is not real able to fully understand the idea of what god or a creator type force is. Maybe many could once, but then it was somehow corrupted, I don;t know. But it seems impossible to do so now.
Through our Spirit, Truth (GOD) is fully understandable...nurture your Spirit, and soon you will know...Truth!!

To put it in a simple way, we are all here and we know we are alive and that we came to be so in this life, because our parents created us in physical form. Yet few people recall actually being born. So then, I think it's likely that in much the same way, we simply can't recall being created by god. We have our parents here to help us learn, thus we grew up knowing what we are on a human level.
Through our Spirit, we are all Truth...without it, it would not be possible for you, I and indeed, our parents and their's, to have entered this physical realm...

Our parent's significance is "superficial" (better not let my parent's hear this :)...otherwise, it's what I teach my kids, too) re, our creation...at death, that creation is nothing...

As physical beings, neither we, nor our parents can create the Spirit...

Thus, our only purpose, on both a Human & Spirit level, is Truth...

God however does not walk among us, and so we never know him the same way. It all remains such a mystery.
"Walking", is a physical realm vibrational frequency...in other words, a very limited (weak) form of communication...GOD (Truth) is infinite...the Spirit (Truth) is infinite...it is virtually beyond comprehension, the communication GOD has with us...

Only, through one's Spirit, is it possible to understand the Truth of such Truth...

People, it seems, need to find ways to explain things we cannot comprehend, hence the concept of religion. So many people want to understand god and every one of them seems to think they are the ones to get it right. (Human ego at work here.)
Without Truth, it is impossible to understand GOD...

Religion sadly seems to have become so much about fear and control and not even about god anymore. God never wanted us to fear him and I think now and many people do.
"Fear", is basically, the absence of Truth...

Why would GOD gift us a Spirit, and then, expect us to exist in fear...it's not possible anyway...GOD cannot be fearful of itself...similarly, Truth cannot be fearful of itself...

People can easily see him as a being of anger and rage, and a being who really has true favorites among his children. I'm sure those associations are not what he would have wanted from us. :(
Only as Truth, in this Physical realm, can one expect to be GOD's "favourite"...otherwise, GOD (Truth) would be in breach of it's own principles...

That being said, I don't feel that religion itself is a bad thing.
If the objective of religion (throughout it's existence), was to express Truth...then, imho, it would be a very good thing...!!

I am very interested in religions and I think they all have a good degree of positivity within them. I myself am just another simple human being seeking to know who or what god is and is not. Any path one may take is a good thing as it leads to potential enlightenment and higher understanding. however when it becomes a cause to hurt others in any way, I can't see god being happy with it.
GOD is Truth...thus, cannot ever be anything else...!!

As a human, there is no "higher understanding" than the Spirit (Truth energy)...!! You were born with it...through meditation (stillness), you can experience and know it...!!

Good Luck!! ;)

miracles

28-04-2009, 10:56 AM

Hi Illuminati downfall

Disgusted, imho, only because of mankind's choice, through religion, attempting to express Truth...hmm, personally, not sure it did, tbh!!

Through our choices, including religion, if we end up killing each other as a result, then, even GOD cannot interfere in the process of Truth, expressing itself...as that result.

Btw, it's very likely, GOD (Truth), wasn't happy with us (mankind) choosing religion in the first place...but, as we did, even then, Truth still had to express itself as Truth...without bias, emotion or preference...etc, etc

GOD is only pleased, if and when Truth is expressed...regardless of who is right/wrong/decieved...

Through our Spirit, Truth (GOD) is fully understandable...nurture your Spirit, and soon you will know...Truth!!

Through our Spirit, we are all Truth...without it, it would not be possible for you, I and indeed, our parents and their's, to have entered this physical realm...

Our parent's significance is "superficial" (better not let my parent's hear this :)...otherwise, it's what I teach my kids, too) re, our creation...at death, that creation is nothing...

As physical beings, neither we, nor our parents can create the Spirit...

Thus, our only purpose, on both a Human & Spirit level, is Truth...

"Walking", is a physical realm vibrational frequency...in other words, a very limited (weak) form of communication...GOD (Truth) is infinite...the Spirit (Truth) is infinite...it is virtually beyond comprehension, the communication GOD has with us...

Only, through one's Spirit, is it possible to understand the Truth of such Truth...

Without Truth, it is impossible to understand GOD...

"Fear", is basically, the absence of Truth...

Why would GOD gift us a Spirit, and then, expect us to exist in fear...it's not possible anyway...GOD cannot be fearful of itself...similarly, Truth cannot be fearful of itself...

Only as Truth, in this Physical realm, can one expect to be GOD's "favourite"...otherwise, GOD (Truth) would be in breach of it's own principles...

If the objective of religion (throughout it's existence), was to express Truth...then, imho, it would be a very good thing...!!

GOD is Truth...thus, cannot ever be anything else...!!

As a human, there is no "higher understanding" than the Spirit (Truth energy)...!! You were born with it...through meditation (stillness), you can experience and know it...!!

Good Luck!! ;)

Gidday me old mate tsume, read the CD malarky, what a load of...:D.

Now tell me, how would "truth' be demonstrated or demonstrate itself in action, also how does truth manifest itself in order for us to know what it is? (and "you know because your spirit tells you" is not a satisfactory answer, Im looking for more than that from you this time please. What does truth look like?

tusme

28-04-2009, 11:42 AM

Gidday me old mate tsume, read the CD malarky, what a load of...:D.

Now tell me, how would "truth' be demonstrated or demonstrate itself in action, also how does truth manifest itself in order for us to know what it is? (and "you know what it is in your spirit" is not a satisfactory answer, Im looking for more than that from you this time please. What does truth look like?
G'day Miracles!! ;)

Hmm, not sure what you're on about, re, "the CD malarky...", perhaps if I knew, I'd probably agree... :D

As for a "demonstration of Truth"...? Well, touch your head...?

If you've thought about it and actually touched your head, then, you've just completed a full demonstration of Truth...

If however, you thought about it but didn't touch your head, yet told me or yourself that you did...then, that would not be a demonstration of Truth..

You see, Miracles, we cannot lie to ourselves...why? because of our Spirit...

Lets say, for instance, you did not touch your head, yet, for some reason, told me you did...physically, I may not know whether you did or not, but you, your Physical & Spirit beings, Truth (GOD)...and everyone else's Spirit know's that you did not tell the Truth...

The Spirit (Truth) knows all Truth (past, present & future) perfectly...thus, imho, we should be in a relationship with Spirit (Truth)...and the way to do that, is through being still (meditation)...some call it prayer...

And, to put it simpler, imagine your Physical & Spirit beings were a railtrack...always running parallel to each other...but, because the Spirit is infinite, meaning, in existence looooong before our Physical beings, it's only logical that the Spirit (Truth) being is allowed to take the lead...No!?

Otherwise, we ignore Spirit Truth at our peril...

Truth, in it's "truest form" as Spirit, is energy...how would you like to see it...?

As you display your love for you wife and son, you're expressing it...!!

Now, tell me, what does Truth, in the form of love for your wife and son, look like...? :D

You've been expressing it throughout your existence, mate...you're just not trusting enough of your own Spirit...only you, I suppose can answer the reason why...!? :)

hellosatellites

28-04-2009, 12:12 PM

I agree. Jesus Christ wanted to help people to become christs (becoming like the master) not christians. As we know "chistianity" today, most christians are not even taught that they can have a relationship with Christ themselves.

They leave it up to the priests and the preachers to tell them what's acceptable or not and who knows if the priest even has a relationship with the Spirit of God.

If you know them by their fruits as Christ said, you would conclude that they don't even know God because so many are sexually abusing the parishioners, begging for money or guilt tripping their flocks with condemnation. "Do as I say and not as I do" is their motto.

Christians are taught to become political. Christians are taught to follow rules. Christians are taught to be passive. They are taught to follow the pastor or the priest, who is a man and not God. They are taught to practice a religion rather than having a relationship with Christ themselves through the Spirit of God joining with their spirit.

I agree with you on many of the things you adress here. I always find it so sad when teachings that was ment to uplift us and be moral guidelines for how to act in a community, is used to exploit and stiffle others. And terrifying how blind faith can leave us vulnerable to be exploited by those we trust to have our best interests and highest aspirations at heart. It's just all sorts of wrong :(

I don't believe in heaven/hell as after-life constructs, but in my more sinister moments i like to think that there is a hell and in it, a special place reserved for those who abuse and take advantage of trusting peoples genuine spiritual yearnings. It will be packed with priests, popes, gurus, mullahs and rabbis...*sigh*

Anyway, it's uplifting to read your thoughts on 'faith' and see that you are making a personal spiritual connection :)

miracles

28-04-2009, 12:22 PM

G'day Miracles!! ;)

Hmm, not sure what you're on about, re, "the CD malarky...", perhaps if I knew, I'd probably agree... :D

As for a "demonstration of Truth"...? Well, touch your head...?

If you've thought about it and actually touched your head, then, you've just completed a full demonstration of Truth...

If however, you thought about it but didn't touch your head, yet told me or yourself that you did...then, that would not be a demonstration of Truth..

You see, Miracles, we cannot lie to ourselves...why? because of our Spirit...

Lets say, for instance, you did not touch your head, yet, for some reason, told me you did...physically, I may not know whether you did or not, but you, your Physical & Spirit beings, Truth (GOD)...and everyone else's Spirit know's that you did not tell the Truth...

The Spirit (Truth) knows all Truth (past, present & present) perfectly...thus, imho, we should be in a relationship with Spirit (Truth)...and the way to do that, is through being still (meditation)...some call it prayer...

And, to put it simpler, imagine your Physical & Spirit beings were a railtrack...always running parallel to each other...but, because the Spirit is infinite, meaning, in existence looooong before our Physical beings, it's only logical that the Spirit (Truth) being is allowed to take the lead...No!?

Otherwise, we ignore Spirit Truth at our peril...

Truth, in it's "truest form" as Spirit, is energy...how would you like to see it...?

As you display your love for you wife and son, you're expressing it...!!

Now, tell me, what does Truth, in the form of love for your wife and son, look like...? :D

You've been expressing it throughout your existence, mate...you're just not trusting enough of your own Spirit...only you, I suppose can answer the reason why...!? :)

Cognitive Dissonance. :D So Truth is Love? And Truth is God?

tusme

28-04-2009, 01:02 PM

Cognitive Dissonance. :D So Truth is Love? And Truth is God?
"Cognative Dissonance", is only possible in this (physical) realm, due to our life's teacher's shaping our reality...and our need to defend that reality...

The Spirit (Truth) know's only Truth...thus, is merely an expression of itself...

More to the point, there is nothing our Physical being can teach the Spirit being...it (Spirit) know's everything (past, Now & future) perfectly...!!

Love is a very powerful expression of Truth...!! ;)

GOD is Truth, Truth is GOD.

miracles

28-04-2009, 03:26 PM

"Cognative Dissonance", is only possible in this (physical) realm, due to our life's teacher's shaping our reality...and our need to defend that reality...

The Spirit (Truth) know's only Truth...thus, is merely an expression of itself...

More to the point, there is nothing our Physical being can teach the Spirit being...it (Spirit) know's everything (past, Now & future) perfectly...!!

Love is a very powerful expression of Truth...!! ;)

GOD is Truth, Truth is GOD.

No I was telling you I read the thing you sent me about Cognitive Dissonence. I have commented on it if you'd like to read it? But you wont like what I've said about it. :D

Okay lets get this sideways. God is truth? But love isn't truth? Which would mean truth isn't love and Truth is your God? Which is what I said eons ago.
Your a Truth worshipper. Truth is your God. What's the bible then? is that truth?, You've completely gone to seed on this word truth and what it means to you. You appear to have created a religion out of it. That's no mean feat. Congratulations. :):D

tusme

28-04-2009, 04:48 PM

No I was telling you I read the thing you sent me about Cognitive Dissonence. I have commented on it if you'd like to read it? But you wont like what I've said about it. :D

Okay lets get this sideways. God is truth? But love isn't truth? Which would mean truth isn't love and Truth is your God? Which is what I said eons ago.
Your a Truth worshipper. Truth is your God. What's the bible then? is that truth?, You've completely gone to seed on this word truth and what it means to you. You appear to have created a religion out of it. That's no mean feat. Congratulations. :):D
:D Yep, I knew that was what you meant, re, "cognative dissonance"...

How do you know, I "won't like what you've said"...? ...got a link, I'd like to have a read, if you don't mind...? ;) :)

"Love isn't Truth" are your words, not mine...

The reason I chose rather to say, "Love is a very powerful Truth", is because, it's possible to manipulate love...also, those who seek to control and enslave us, they too, understand love but who do you think that love is directed at...definitely not you & me...!?

Now, in the case of Truth...manipulation of any kind, is impossible...!!

Thus, GOD (Truth) is the same yesterday, today and forever...!!

Truth, as a vibration frequency, is uncorruptable...whereas Love...hmm, well, wonderful World of love we live in, isn't it...!? :D

Truth cannot be worshipped, only experienced & expressed...and shared...!!

GOD (Truth) does not need worshipping, if it does, it is in breach of it's own principles...imho, it is mankind's choice, to worship GOD...why? ...to gain GOD's "favour", I suspect...or, for tptb, to manipulate such (worshipping) energy...

If it were possible at all, to gain GOD's "favour", would it not make sense, that Truth be the standard for such an understanding...? Well then, that is exactly what our Spirit is made of...infinitely!!

Religion requires for something to be believed in...in the case of Truth, no belief is required, only experience & expression...through one's Spirit.

When you leave this realm (as we all will) oneday, you will know immediately, Truth is what's keeping this Physical realm together, not religion...

mindrevolution

28-04-2009, 04:57 PM

God is not religious?

The definition of religion is a good one, size-of-light. It says, "orgainized approach to spirituality".. often called a path. Seems to me, God does sanction religion through his representatives here on Earth, such as Jesus, Buddha,, or one of their ordained followers. And through scripture,,, often called "Word of God" by Christians.

For example, amethyst, you say "it's about realtionship with God". That may well be, but how does one establish a relationship with God if not through a religion? How do I find relationship with God, if I'm ignorant, sick, hopelessly gone astray?

And , it could be delusional for a person to believe they have a perfect relationship with God, no matter how enlightened you may be.. This is where religion comes in. Sort of a guidepost along THE WAY.

Find a religion that suits you. Follow the teachings, and find a teacher you trust to help you over the mountains and to see the many pit-falls. For one to depend on ones your own judgement in these matters could be foolishness. And, even with a good teacher and all the scripture study in the world,, you still may fail. Remember that!

I know if I didn't have scripture and authority to guide me, I would be quite lost. Maybe you are different. Could be you are. But to say that God doesn't sanction religion practice?

I feel this person is so wrong. A blind prisoner obeying the guards for absolutely no reason. Why do some people not want freedom? why do they gladly put their lives in the hands of others?

Hopefully this kind of mindset is on its way out.

amethyst

28-04-2009, 05:44 PM

Practiced properly, it does.

phildee, why don't you share what you believe "practicing religion properly" is?

The problem with religion as I see it is, whereas, one person is may be feeling prompted by the Spirit to do one thing in their desire to know/experience God, another person may feel they are prompted by the Spirit to do another thing- which will be a valid thing for both of them, if it is a prompting from the Spirit and not something done just from obligation or habit.

So, if a "religion' is dictating that everyone all do the same thing, then that to me, is a violation of the individual's own prompting, and wil be wrong for them and even go against what they feel the Spirit is prompting them individually to do.

I have been to certain church services before, where the pastor is telling everyone that they must all do the same thing ie; some outward ritual such as stand up, sit down, kneel etc. Then one is subjected to hearing a lengthy, and often times boring sermon that may or may not apply to one's own life. That to me is not having a relationship with the Spirit of God. That to me is following the dictates of another individual, and is in fact "ritual' because it is not coming from the person's heart connecting with the Spirit of God.

And, on top of that, the one's who are controling the service condemn (subtlly or not so subtly) someone for not choosing to participate in this said ritual. That to me is what "religion' does. It trie's to impose a set of behaviors on individuals, and if these individuals do not conform to the specific rituals that they establish, you are treated with condemnation and are looked down upon. And religion's use this mentality to justify hatred, killing, etc. etc.

Just look at history and it is obvious to see with the Spanish inquisition, what is going on over in Israel right now etc. etc.That to me, is not the Spirit of God who is love.

I think the idea of joining together, shareing in the bond of fellowshipping over a meal in the Spirit is a much more relaxed type of approach where everyone is able to share and participate and join together and accept where each individual is coming from.

If scripture is an example, the first chapters of Acts talks about the people were in one accord and shared with one another as there was need and the Spirit was present, bringing joy, peace and gladness in the hearts of those joined together.

This is completely different with what we see today in the vast majority of "religions'.

amethyst

28-04-2009, 05:51 PM

I always find it so sad when teachings that was ment to uplift us and be moral guidelines for how to act in a community, is used to exploit and stiffle others. And terrifying how blind faith can leave us vulnerable to be exploited by those we trust to have our best interests and highest aspirations at heart. It's just all sorts of wrong

I find it sad too, I agree.

Hey, good thoughts everyone!

size_of_light

28-04-2009, 06:00 PM

I feel this person is so wrong. A blind prisoner obeying the guards for absolutely no reason. Why do some people not want freedom? why do they gladly put their lives in the hands of others?

Hopefully this kind of mindset is on its way out.

What guards?

phildee3

28-04-2009, 06:22 PM

why don't you share what you believe "practicing religion properly" is?

It's whatever brings you closer to rejoining with source - and our true spiritual nature.

snoopsnuffleopagus

29-04-2009, 12:17 AM

hi Amethyst: :)

whaddayathinkofthis?

'
soul concerned with spirit rather than the 'material'

focus on the 'Common Good'

one for all, all for one.

Mashiyach is a Government, not a religion. One way to understand perfect Government is to contemplate the beauty of life itself. To the degree that we can appreciate the beauty and intricacy of the natural world we can also understand the perfection of Mashiyach's Government. Those things in this life that provide us the greatest satisfaction point to the spiritual elements that hold life together as they relate to time and our purpose and existence on earth. Mashiyach is the basis of life and the Government that holds life together through Justice, Peace, Righteousness and Love.

Contrary to popular opinion Mashiyach wasn't a Christian, neither is he responsible for the fabrication of the Roman Catholic religion or the myriads of Christian denominations. In reality Mashiyach's Government is not accepted by the vast majority of Christianity today; rather, the Christian world interprets Mashiyach by their own Gnostic, political, material and egotistical traditions in antipathy to Mashiyach. The Faith of the Shlichim (Sent Ones or Apostles) was and is labelled as Netzarim Judaism, but it became an obscure underground community by the Fourth Century simply because people refused to emulate the Righteous Torah observant lifestyle of Mashiyach and his original followers. The post-apostolic Greek founders of Western Christianity sought to avoid anything that appeared "Jewish" or "Old Testament" and this theme bore anti-Torah sentiments that has progressively worsened within modern churches. However, those who follow Mashiyach enter into his Government as a Faith that is not based on cerebral theology but on a way of living and being, whether a person is Jewish by birth or otherwise.

http://www.mashiyach.com/netzari.htm

sn:):)ps

miracles

29-04-2009, 04:31 AM

:D Yep, I knew that was what you meant, re, "cognative dissonance"...

How do you know, I "won't like what you've said"...? ...got a link, I'd like to have a read, if you don't mind...? ;) :)

"Love isn't Truth" are your words, not mine...

The reason I chose rather to say, "Love is a very powerful Truth", is because, it's possible to manipulate love...also, those who seek to control and enslave us, they too, understand love but who do you think that love is directed at...definitely not you & me...!?

Now, in the case of Truth...manipulation of any kind, is impossible...!!

Thus, GOD (Truth) is the same yesterday, today and forever...!!

Truth, as a vibration frequency, is uncorruptable...whereas Love...hmm, well, wonderful World of love we live in, isn't it...!? :D

Truth cannot be worshipped, only experienced & expressed...and shared...!!

GOD (Truth) does not need worshipping, if it does, it is in breach of it's own principles...imho, it is mankind's choice, to worship GOD...why? ...to gain GOD's "favour", I suspect...or, for tptb, to manipulate such (worshipping) energy...

If it were possible at all, to gain GOD's "favour", would it not make sense, that Truth be the standard for such an understanding...? Well then, that is exactly what our Spirit is made of...infinitely!!

Religion requires for something to be believed in...in the case of Truth, no belief is required, only experience & expression...through one's Spirit.

When you leave this realm (as we all will) oneday, you will know immediately, Truth is what's keeping this Physical realm together, not religion...

Love is a very powerful expression of Truth

Your words, not mine.

Love being an expression of truth, or a by product/fruit of truth, is quite part from love being truth. So I put it to you, that whilst you may not have meant it, this is what your quote means.
Further more, your fuller explaination above only enhances that you believe that love is not truth.

You say love can be manipulated, but truth cant. Sorry but this equals the fact that they arent the same thing.IE Love is not Truth. Your arguement fails the acid test.

Bro you believe in truth, you can't say it doesnt need to be believed in. Be realistic. - truth has to be experienced demonstrated and applied it is not an etheral thing. In my opinion, you have made truth your God, not that is a reaaaaaaaaallly bad thing or anything, its just that your doctrin is a bit hard to grasp. It doesnt make sense to me.

tusme

29-04-2009, 08:24 AM

G'day Miracles...!! ;)

Your words, not mine.

Love being an expression of truth, or a by product/fruit of truth, is quite part from love being truth. So I put it to you, that whilst you may not have meant it, this is what your quote means.
Further more, your fuller explaination above only enhances that you believe that love is not truth.
Hmm, well, there ain't much I can do if, after I've explained the reason for saying, "Love is a very powerful Truth", you choose instead to use your imagination loosely...rather than using it to understand why, I said what I did, and then comparing it with Truth... How could you ever hope to overcome those who seek to control & enslave us all...!? :confused:

So, because you're trying to "prove me wrong", you'd rather see Truth and Love in a negative light...yet, what you're actually doing is, opposing your very nature...!!

Cognative Dissonance, at it's best...!! :D

In my "fuller explanation of Truth", I was merely trying to demonstrate, Truth in it's most basic form, and how it works within the Physical & Spirit realms...only once Truth is established, does emotions such as "Love" play a role...otherwise, if GOD loved all of mankind, then why has GOD, for example, allowed for all the wars, mass murders to take place...?

Mate...look at the state the World is in today...? Do you not realise that there are people trying to control and enslave, not only you and I, but also our entire future generations...!? Where's the love in that...? :confused:

Love, unfortunately, in this case, does not add up to what is happening in the World today...!!

Now, consider Truth, and everything makes sense...and whats more, Truth allows for us to see the "Big Picture", with so much more clarity...and a solution...by using Love, we'll only get more BS from those who seek to control and enslave us...!!

You say love can be manipulated, but truth cant. Sorry but this equals the fact that they arent the same thing.IE Love is not Truth. Your arguement fails the acid test.
:D...you trying to be funny or what...? Why is it so difficult for you to understand that, "love can be manipulated, but truth can't"? :confused:

Hmm, seems you're trying to make some logic between the relationship of Love & Truth...of-course there's a relationship, however, remove Truth, what remains of Love, then...?

Bro you believe in truth, you can't say it doesnt need to be believed in. Be realistic. God is there wether we belive it or not - truth isnt there wether we beleive ot or not, truth has to be experienced demonstrated and applied it is not an etheral thing.
Imho, you're still using the "thought processes", which your "life's teachers" have shaped...try using your Spirit Truth to observe your life's experiences, the worst that can happen is total (Truth) expression... ;)

Mate, what you're doing, by trying to prove me wrong, (without even realising it) you're also attempting to deny yourself...!? :confused: All our Spirit (Truth) energy is one with the Whole...

In my opinion, you have made truth your God. In New Zealand the Truth is a Newspaper, full of sleazey sex adverts. .
Well, there ain't much I can do if you're convinced that, "I've made Truth my GOD"...what you're really doing is, being negative in your observations of a fellow human being...that in itself will never prove a Truth...so, you're on the "wrong" journey my friend...!!

As for that NZ newspaper, named Truth...hmm, just what has that got to do with the Truth which resides inside of you and me...?

Mate, your judgement, re, Truth, is abit cock-eyed...unfortunately!! :)

Truth has been in existence since the "beginning"...rather than focussing your energies on a dodgy NZ newspaper, focus it on the fact your Spirit possesses the same energy which existed at the "beginning"...and is infinite...!! ;)

miracles

29-04-2009, 09:11 AM

G'day Miracles...!! ;)

Hmm, well, there ain't much I can do if, after I've explained the reason for saying, "Love is a very powerful Truth", you choose instead to use your imagination loosely...rather than using it to understand why, I said what I did, and then comparing it with Truth... How could you ever hope to overcome those who seek to control & enslave us all...!? :confused:

So, because you're trying to "prove me wrong", you'd rather see Truth and Love in a negative light...yet, what you're actually doing is, opposing your very nature...!!

Cognative Dissonance, at it's best...!! :D

In my "fuller explanation of Truth", I was merely trying to demonstrate, Truth in it's most basic form, and how it works within the Physical & Spirit realms...only once Truth is established, does emotions such as "Love" play a role...otherwise, if GOD loved all of mankind, then why has GOD, for example, allowed for all the wars, mass murders to take place...?

Mate...look at the state the World is in today...? Do you not realise that there are people trying to control and enslave, not only you and I, but also our entire future generations...!? Where's the love in that...? :confused:

Love, unfortunately, in this case, does not add up to what is happening in the World today...!!

Now, consider Truth, and everything makes sense...and whats more, Truth allows for us to see the "Big Picture", with so much more clarity...and a solution...by using Love, we'll only get more BS from those who seek to control and enslave us...!!

:D...you trying to be funny or what...? Why is it so difficult for you to understand that, "love can be manipulated, but truth can't"? :confused:

Hmm, seems you're trying to make some logic between the relationship of Love & Truth...of-course there's a relationship, however, remove Truth, what remains of Love, then...?

Imho, you're still using the "thought processes", which your "life's teachers" have shaped...try using your Spirit Truth to observe your life's experiences, the worst that can happen is total (Truth) expression... ;)

Mate, what you're doing, by trying to prove me wrong, (without even realising it) you're also attempting to deny yourself...!? :confused: All our Spirit (Truth) energy is one with the Whole...

Well, there ain't much I can do if you're convinced that, "I've made Truth my GOD"...what you're really doing is, being negative in your observations of a fellow human being...that in itself will never prove a Truth...so, you're on the "wrong" journey my friend...!!

As for that NZ newspaper, named Truth...hmm, just what has that got to do with the Truth which resides inside of you and me...?

Mate, your judgement, re, Truth, is abit cock-eyed...unfortunately!! :)

Truth has been in existence since the "beginning"...rather than focussing your energies on a dodgy NZ newspaper, focus it on the fact your Spirit possesses the same energy which existed at the "beginning"...and is infinite...!! ;)

Well, no, Im not being negative, simply getting intrenched into the ramifications and meaning of your thought processes, which to me are flawed.

The truth is, crap is going on in the world right? That doesn't mean there is no truth in the crap that's goin down. The truth is, its happening, right?

Your giving far much more credence and meaning to the word truth and in my opinion stretching it to mean something that it doesnt mean. What you are actually doing without realising it, is deifying a word,

The word Love is secondary to the subject of the discussion to the word truth. I know what love is, I know what my concept of God is, and I know what my concept of truth is. And I know the dictionary meanings of these words aswell.

What im trying to figure out is (not prove you wrong, no way) what your concept of truth is? And Im sorry old chap, you are contradicting yourself rather a lot, which makes it even more difficult to understand.

Perhaps you are battling with a bit of Cognitive Dissonace as I point these things out to you?

tusme

29-04-2009, 12:30 PM

Well, no, Im not being negative, simply getting intrenched into the ramifications and meaning of your thought processes, which to me are flawed.
Well, I think you're being "negative", co's I'm merely trying to express the Truth, which is being experienced...and sharing it...without any need for reward/acclaim...

You're getting "intrenched into the ramification and meaning of my thought processes", only because of your need to prove me wrong...no wonder your thought processes are abit "cock-eyed"...as I have said before, a negetive can never prove a Truth...if you opened yourself to your Spirit, Truth will open itself to you too...!! Hmm, but you see, you're instead looking for it in (the flaws of the physical) me...ie, my choice of words or posts...!?

The truth is, crap is going on in the world right? That doesn't mean there is no truth in the crap that's goin down. The truth is, its happening, right?
Indeed, Truth is, it's happening...!! But, thats only acknowledging half the Truth, though...!! Why? Co's, Truth (GOD), even at the "beginning" knew that that "crap" would happen and even knows how it will be resolved...or not!!

Now, only as (Spirit) Truth, can we (mankind) make the right decisions to express the solution to rid ourselves of this "crap"...!!

Anything else, other than Truth, would bring about a solution which could allow for us or them (the crap) to succeed...in which case, GOD (Truth) would have known that that would be the outcome too...!!

I hope that made sense to you...? Co's, what I've just explained, is a very important principle of Truth...!!

Your giving far much more credence and meaning to the word truth and in my opinion stretching it to mean something that it doesnt mean. What you are actually doing without realising it, is deifying a word,
You don't seem to realise, language, ie, words (even the term "Truth"), is simply a vibrational frequency used to communicate...

Truth, in it's truest form, is pure energy...no words are required to express such energy...how do plants communicate...? Ain't they also using Truth to express their existence/beauty...Truth?

Again, your focus is mis-directed...unfortunately!! My usage of the word Truth does not exist within you...but the same energy, which makes up our Spirit does...now, indulge your thought processes on that...!? :)

The word Love is secondary to the subject of the discussion to the word truth. I know what love is, I know what my concept of God is, and I know what my concept of truth is. And I know the dictionary meanings of these words aswell.
Well, if Love in this case, is "secondary to the subject of the discussion of the word Truth", then why do you have a problem when my original explanation said exactly that...?

Again, ignore the word Truth...and instead, focus your attention on the energy, of which is Truth...

Btw, the dictionary's meaning of Truth means very little...in fact, I once edited the "Wikipedia webpage", re, Truth...after a few days, it was promtly deleted... :eek: :D

What im trying to figure out is (not prove you wrong, no way) what your concept of truth is? And Im sorry old chap, you are contradicting yourself rather a lot, which makes it even more difficult to understand.
Well, if you are actually "trying to figure out Truth"...then, may I suggest, the best place to start, is one's Spirit...it know's only the Truth...!!

What you're doing is, observing the Truth, which I am experiencing and expressing...and comparing it to your understanding of Truth...no wonder you're not even able to see, that you're trying to "prove me wrong"...why? co's you're fearful of the fact, I might be right and you may be wrong...not just now, but, throughout your entire life, it's possible that you may have been wrong...!! Exactly what Cognative Dissonance is all about...!! :)

Perhaps you are battling with a bit of Cognitive Dissonace as I point these things out to you?
Hmm...mate, this existence (my life) has always been a problem for me to understand...none of my life's teachers, parents, religion and all of educational teachers couldn't tell me what my life is really about...

Until I met my Spirit...!! And as they say..."the rest is history...!!"

So, for me, cognative dissonance was actually a blessing...!! :D ...co's it proved, I was right all along...and my Life's teachers, are all still stuck in the "matrix"...bless em!! :)

Again...our purpose in this Physical & Spirit realm, is Truth...!!

And, FYI, is the Kingdom, which is mentioned in the Holy Bible..."seek ye first the Kingdom of GOD, and everything shall be given unto you..."

Otherwise, you're not "pointing out" anything to me...on the contrary, Truth will oneday, point itself out to you...!! ;) :)

miracles

29-04-2009, 12:54 PM

Well, I think you're being "negative", co's I'm merely trying to express the Truth, which is being experienced...and sharing it...without any need for reward/acclaim...

You're getting "intrenched into the ramification and meaning of my thought processes", only because of your need to prove me wrong...no wonder your thought processes are abit "cock-eyed"...as I have said before, a negetive can never prove a Truth...if you opened yourself to your Spirit, Truth will open itself to you too...!! Hmm, but you see, you're instead looking for it in (the flaws of the physical) me...ie, my choice of words or posts...!?

Indeed, Truth is, it's happening...!! But, thats only acknowledging half the Truth, though...!! Why? Co's, Truth (GOD), even at the "beginning" knew that that "crap" would happen and even knows how it will be resolved...or not!!

Now, only as (Spirit) Truth, can we (mankind) make the right decisions to express the solution to rid ourselves of this "crap"...!!

Anything else, other than Truth, would bring about a solution which could allow for us or them (the crap) to succeed...in which case, GOD (Truth) would have known that that would be the outcome too...!!

I hope that made sense to you...? Co's, what I've just explained, is a very important principle of Truth...!!

You don't seem to realise, language, ie, words (even the term "Truth"), is simply a vibrational frequency used to communicate...

Truth, in it's truest form, is pure energy...no words are required to express such energy...how do plants communicate...? Ain't they also using Truth to express their existence/beauty...Truth?

Again, your focus is mis-directed...unfortunately!! My usage of the word Truth does not exist within you...but the same energy, which makes up our Spirit does...now, indulge your thought processes on that...!? :)

Well, if Love in this case, is "secondary to the subject of the discussion of the word Truth", then why do you have a problem when my original explanation said exactly that...?

Again, ignore the word Truth...and instead, focus your attention on the energy, of which is Truth...

Btw, the dictionary's meaning of Truth means very little...in fact, I once edited the "Wikipedia webpage", re, Truth...after a few days, it was promtly deleted... :eek: :D

Well, if you are actually "trying to figure out Truth"...then, may I suggest, the best place to start, is one's Spirit...it know's only the Truth...!!

What you're doing is, observing the Truth, which I am experiencing and expressing...and comparing it to your understanding of Truth...no wonder you're not even able to see, that you're trying to "prove me wrong"...why? co's you're fearful of the fact, I might be right and you may be wrong...not just now, but, throughout your entire life, it's possible that you may have been wrong...!! Exactly what Cognative Dissonance is all about...!! :)

Hmm...mate, this existence (my life) has always been a problem for me to understand...none of my life's teachers, parents, religion and all of educational teachers couldn't tell me what my life is really about...

Until I met my Spirit...!! And as they say..."the rest is history...!!"

So, for me, cognative dissonance was actually a blessing...!! :D ...co's it proved, I was right all along...and my Life's teachers, are all still stuck in the "matrix"...bless em!! :)

Again...our purpose in this Physical & Spirit realm, is Truth...!!

And, FYI, is the Kingdom, which is mentioned in the Holy Bible..."seek ye first the Kingdom of GOD, and everything shall be given unto you..."

Otherwise, you're not "pointing out" anything to me...on the contrary, Truth will oneday, point itself out to you...!! ;) :)

mmm, a rather defensive response, never mind.

When you insert the word truth in brackets after the word God I fully understand where your coming from. Again I wasnt trying to prove you wrong or be negative, intelligent people ask a lot of questions in pursuit of understanding. I understand where your at now. Thanks for that.

Cheers ears. :)

tusme

29-04-2009, 01:12 PM

mmm, a rather defensive response, never mind.

When you insert the word truth in brackets after the word God I fully understand where your coming from. Again I wasnt trying to prove you wrong or be negative, intelligent people ask a lot of questions in pursuit of understanding. I understand where your at now. Thanks for that.

Cheers ears. :)
Well, you made some "unjustified" claims, that required defending... :D

Intelligent people ask lots of questions, for their own purposes...!?

I appreciate, saying, you understand me...but, I'd rather you understand the Truth, which is being communicated to you, by your Spirit...by doing that, even in this Physical realm, you and I become one with with the Whole (GOD)...and when that happens, we have the potential to affect the entire Universe (and beyond), let alone the "crap" that is going on here, on Earth...!! :D

And, tptb know this...hence, their fear...!! ;)

Thankyou too, Miracles!! ;) http://www.davidicke.com/forum/images/icons/icon14.gif

miracles

29-04-2009, 01:21 PM

Well, you made some "unjustified" claims, that required defending... :D

Intelligent people ask lots of questions, for their own purposes...!?

I appreciate, saying, you understand me...but, I'd rather you understand the Truth, which is being communicated to you, by your Spirit...by doing that, even in this Physical realm, you and I become one with with the Whole (GOD)...and when that happens, we have the potential to affect the entire Universe (and beyond), let alone the "crap" that is going on here, on Earth...!! :D

And, tptb know this...hence, their fear...!! ;)

Thankyou too, Miracles!! ;) http://www.davidicke.com/forum/images/icons/icon14.gif

Well I'd rather you become born again of the spirit through Christ then we could become brothers for all eternity. TPTB stands for The Powerless That Be. Everythings going to be okay.

tusme

29-04-2009, 01:38 PM

Well I'd rather you become born again of the spirit through Christ then we could become brothers for all eternity. TPTB stands for The Powerless That Be. Everythings going to be okay.
Well, whatever it, TPTB, means or stands for...it is well and truly in control of all Religions...including Christianity...even satanism!!

I dunno how Christianity intends un-doing itself from this "scourge", but I know for sure, being born-again won't do it...only Truth!!

But then, in that case, why not simply stick with Truth...ain't that the message that Jesus Christ brought for us all...!?

"Born-again", imho means, having found GOD's Kindgom, which is Truth...!! And how does one find the Truth (GOD's Kindgom)...!? ...through being and knowing one's Spirit, the (Truth) energy within us, which existed at the beginning and is infinite...!!

As for being "born again through Christ"...again, imho, it's the desire to generate the Truth energy, which Christ exemplified/expressed during His existence...or, as his message/purpose...!!

Otherwise, the type of "born-again" you expect of me, would be like, a person "going back to sleep", after awakening to all the "crap" going on in this World...I'm not sure that is possible, but I sure ain't gonna try doing it...!! :D

amethyst

29-04-2009, 06:01 PM

hi Amethyst: :)

whaddayathinkofthis?

'
soul concerned with spirit rather than the 'material'

focus on the 'Common Good'

one for all, all for one.

http://www.mashiyach.com/netzari.htm

sn:):)ps

Hi Sir Snoops,

If you are asking what do I think of the quote you posted, I would pretty much agree. In particular this:

Contrary to popular opinion Mashiyach wasn't a Christian, neither is he responsible for the fabrication of the Roman Catholic religion or the myriads of Christian denominations. In reality Mashiyach's Government is not accepted by the vast majority of Christianity today

I agree. Yeshua, more commonly known as Jesus, wasn't a Christian. He was Yeshua the Messiah, or Yeshua the Christ. He never came to start a religion. He came to point the way to the Most High, the Father, by teaching people to become like Christ or Christ-like.

And yes, I agree, the vast of majority of Christianity does not know nor does not want to become more Christ-like because they would rather accept man made teachings rather than letting the Spirit of God teach them Himself.

I think it's "safer" in many regards for many to trust in a "religion" because you do not have to think for yourself. It's all done for you. Man made RELIGION just says, "here, do this" and you will be fine. It's someone else telling you how to live and how to behave. It's a passive way to live, to let someone else do your thinking for you. That's why I think a lot just "settle' for religion, rather than having an individual relationship with the Most High God.

But when the Spirit teaches you yourself, you will have an assurance, peace and confidence that the knowledge and truth you are recieving is from the Spirit of God, who is all perfection. But it is a process. Revelation and understanding from the Spirit doesn't come all at once. And because so many are all at different levels, what may be truth for someone at their stage, may not be truth for someone else who is at a different stage in becoming Christ like.

But, the Spirit reveals the truth for that individual at the stage that they are at. That's why Yeshua Christ told us to "bear with one another" in all things for that very reason.
Because we are not all at the same stage of understanding, we don't understand the work that the Spirit is doing in someone else's life. That is, if that person is allowing the Spirit of the Most High to teach them. Not everyone is. But that's a whole other topic ;)

amethyst

29-04-2009, 06:22 PM

As for being "born again through Christ"...again, imho, it's the desire to generate the Truth energy, which Christ exemplified/expressed during His existence...or, as his message/purpose...!!

I think that's one way of percieving it. Yes, I would say it is "truth energy" Pure Truth energy.

Being "born again" through Christ is allowing the Spirit of the Most High to regenerate your own spirit anew with His spiritual power, wisdom and insight.

Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." (John 3:3)

What this means is, this spiritual regeneration process that you allow the Spirit of the Most High to do in your life, allows you to have "spiritual perception" to "see' the "kingdom of God'. Without this "spiritual perception" from the Most High, you can't "see' so clearly. That's why Christ said that some "think" they are "seeing" the truth, when in essence, they really were not. He directed his comments to the RELIGIOUS LEADERS of His day who proported to know God, but by their actions, they denied the Spirit of God.

"Do not marvel that I said to you, 'You must be born again.' The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit." (John 3:7-8)

phildee3

29-04-2009, 06:44 PM

Being "born again" through Christ is allowing the Spirit of the Most High to regenerate your own spirit anew with His spiritual power, wisdom and insight.

some "think" they are "seeing" the truth, when in essence, they really were not.

yep!

Before you can be born again, you must die.
You must loose your house, your job, your family, your status, your identity...
You must start anew, in every way.

Many "pentecostals" are letting in spirits other than the Holy Spirit while being totally convinced otherwise.

amethyst

29-04-2009, 06:54 PM

yep!

[QUOTE]Before you can be born again, you must die.
You must loose your house, your job, your family, your status, your identity...
You must start anew, in every way.

Isn't what you're saying is you lose your identification (you lose the value or importance of) with some things that you previously valued as important, when they really weren't? IE:that you realise they are illusionary, and temporal rather than eternal?

Many "pentecostals" are letting in spirits other than the Holy Spirit while being totally convinced otherwise.

What's the definition of a "pentecostal'?

watson_k

29-04-2009, 07:00 PM

[QUOTE=phildee3;959876]

Isn't what you're saying is you lose your identification (you lose the value or importance of) with some things that you previously valued as important, when they really weren't? IE:that you realise they are illusionary, and temporal rather than eternal?

According to Hermetics, You never lose your 'Ego' / Personality. When you 'die' you only lose your physical body and physical possessions.

(From Wiki)
Pentecostalism is a renewalist religious movement within Christianity, that places special emphasis on a direct personal experience of God through the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

phildee3

29-04-2009, 07:05 PM

Isn't what you're saying is you lose your identification (you lose the value or importance of) with some things that you previously valued as important, when they really weren't? IE:that you realise they are illusionary, and temporal rather than eternal?

No.
I'm saying that one must actually lose it all.

What's the definition of a "pentecostal'?

You ought to know.
If not, I recommend that you read up on it.

There are other fundies who are not formally considered "pentecostals" who also invoke the Holy Spirit to come into them (and unwittingly let in others), but pentecostals have this as their core practice.
They take the name from the Pentecost, when the apostles were filled with the Holy Ghost,
but they had already given up their old lives and been "born again" into completely new ones.

To invoke the Holy Spirit is dangerous, imo.
It is a blessing which is poured out, into those who are ready,
but you must have already scrapped your old life and begun a new one
otherwise, you are open to all kinds coming in!

phildee3

29-04-2009, 07:07 PM

According to Hermetics, You never lose your 'Ego' / Personality. When you 'die' you only lose your physical body and physical possessions.

The hermeticists are right about this.

watson_k

29-04-2009, 07:09 PM

No.
I'm saying that one must actually lose it all.
.

What exactly is your belief system if you don't mind me asking? So I can get a grasp of where your point of view is coming from.

amethyst

29-04-2009, 07:10 PM

[QUOTE=amethyst;959891]

According to Hermetics, You never lose your 'Ego' / Personality. When you 'die' you only lose your physical body and physical possessions.

(From Wiki)

the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

According to scripture, Christ had the baptism of the Holy Spirit:

"When all the people were baptized, it came to pass that Jesus also was baptized; and while He prayed, the heaven was opened.

And the Holy Spirit descended in bodily form like a dove upon Him, and a voice came from heaven which said, "You are My beloved Son; in You I am well pleased." (luke 3:21-22)

watson_k

29-04-2009, 07:13 PM

What exactly is The Holy Spirit?

amethyst

29-04-2009, 07:17 PM

No.
I'm saying that one must actually lose it all.

You ought to know.
If not, I reccommend that you read up on it.

There are other fundies who are not formally considered "pentecostals" who also invoke the Holy Spirit to come into them (and unwittingly let in others), but pentecostals have this as their core practice.

Well I know what "pentecost" means- the Spirit being poured out upon the people listening at that time (it's described in the book of Acts chapter 2), but I just wanted to hear your definition of "pentacostal", that's why I asked

amethyst

29-04-2009, 07:19 PM

What exactly is The Holy Spirit?

The Holy Spirit of the Most High God.

phildee3

29-04-2009, 07:27 PM

Well I know what "pentecost" means- the Spirit being poured out upon the people listening at that time

No. It means "the fiftieth day" (after the resurrection).

What happened on that day is that the Holy Spirit was poured out only, and specifically, on the apostles -
who had abandoned and buried their old lives completely.

amethyst

29-04-2009, 07:35 PM

No.
It was only received by the apostles -
who had abandoned and buried their old lives completely.

Anyone can recieve the gift of the Holy Spirit, who brings understanding of the scriptures.

According to scripture, Peter said to the people:

"Then Peter said to them, "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. (Acts: 2:38)

"every one" is every one phildee. I don't think God plays favorites.

tusme

29-04-2009, 09:59 PM

I think that's one way of percieving it. Yes, I would say it is "truth energy" Pure Truth energy.

Being "born again" through Christ is allowing the Spirit of the Most High to regenerate your own spirit anew with His spiritual power, wisdom and insight.

Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." (John 3:3)

What this means is, this spiritual regeneration process that you allow the Spirit of the Most High to do in your life, allows you to have "spiritual perception" to "see' the "kingdom of God'. Without this "spiritual perception" from the Most High, you can't "see' so clearly. That's why Christ said that some "think" they are "seeing" the truth, when in essence, they really were not. He directed his comments to the RELIGIOUS LEADERS of His day who proported to know God, but by their actions, they denied the Spirit of God.

"Do not marvel that I said to you, 'You must be born again.' The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit." (John 3:7-8)
Thanks Amethyst, for helping me out with Biblical scripture...again!! ;) :)

Only other problem I have with being "born again" is, those who seek to control and enslave us, have "installed their puppets" as Religious Leaders...and these "puppet leaders", who are now calling/insisting that people be "born again"...!? :eek: :)

How does one deal with a situation such as this...!? :confused: When an institution (Religion, in this case) appears to be offering Truth, but those doing the offering, are "rotten" to the core...? :confused:

Otherwise, yes, I agree...anyone can claim to know GOD/Truth, however, it is by their fruits (actions), that they shall be known... ;) :)

phildee3

30-04-2009, 12:38 AM

"Then Peter said to them, "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. (Acts: 2:38)

That's right.
It doesn't say, "You shall receive the Holy Spirit," does it?
It says, "You shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."
...and what is this gift?
It is the remission of sins, for those who repent.

A gift is something that is given, by somebody who posesses it, to someone else.
Peter did not have authority over the Holy Spirit so that he could give it to others!!

I don't think God plays favorites.

I know he doesn't.
In fact, he doesn't play!

amethyst

30-04-2009, 12:54 AM

Thanks Amethyst, for helping me out with Biblical scripture...again!! ;) :)

Only other problem I have with being "born again" is, those who seek to control and enslave us, have "installed their puppets" as Religious Leaders...and these "puppet leaders", who are now calling/insisting that people be "born again"...!? :eek: :)

How does one deal with a situation such as this...!? :confused: When an institution (Religion, in this case) appears to be offering Truth, but those doing the offering, are "rotten" to the core...? :confused:

Otherwise, yes, I agree...anyone can claim to know GOD/Truth, however, it is by their fruits (actions), that they shall be known... ;) :)

Hi tusme :)

Puppet Religious leaders: Using "God"/Christ, for their own ends, their own gain.

Not sure what you are asking but I agree that a great many of denominations have their puppet religious leaders- particularly the ones' you see on TV who are always begging for money.....what do they need that for? To build more tv studios? Bigger houses for themselves? Bigger jets? Seems "elitist' to me, and probably a "smoke screen' for the elite to confuse people all the more, that "they" are the ones that have a corner on the "truth".

To be "born again" of the Holy Spirit, is God's invitiation to the individual. It's all about the individual having a relationship with God through His Spirit, and then one can sharing truth you have recieved from the Spirit, who gladly gives all good spiritual things to us. He's not stingy.

It just starts simply with "asking" God.

Christ said "Ask, and you shall receive". "So I say to you, ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you.(Luke 11:9)

It's certainly shouldn't be forced on anyone, and any leader who does that just might have a coercive agenda behind them ie; getting more money from you / your loyalty? etc. etc?

amethyst

30-04-2009, 01:08 AM

[QUOTE=phildee3;960699]That's right.
It doesn't say, "You shall receive the Holy Spirit," does it?
It says, "You shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."
...and what is this gift?

It is the remission of sins, for those who repent.

You are incorrect. The gift is the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Scripture says it in that same book of Acts, phildee:

"Now when the apostles who were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them,

who, when they had come down, prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit.

For as yet He had fallen upon none of them. They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Then they laid hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit."

(Acts: 8:14-17)

Peter did not have authority over the Holy Spirit so that he could give it to others!!

Read the above passage. It says "Peter and John".

You seem to want to say it is only for a chosen few and it's not. That mentality is kinda elitist IMO. The Spirit is for everyone who wants it.

God gives the Holy Spirit to anyone who wants Him.

amethyst

30-04-2009, 01:16 AM

I know he doesn't.
In fact, he doesn't play!

Phildee, you enjoy doing word "twists' don't you?

phildee3

30-04-2009, 01:22 AM

You are incorrect. The gift is the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Scripture says it in that same book of Acts, phildee:

"Now when the apostles who were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them,

who, when they had come down, prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit.

For as yet He had fallen upon none of them. They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Then they laid hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit."

(Acts: 8:14-17)

God gives the Holy Spirit to anyone who wants Him.

"God" does not give the Holy Spirit.
The Holy Spirit is God!!!

and it's not "for everyone who wants it":

Acts 8:18 And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,
19 Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost.
20 But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money.

...and what makes you think that those Samarians, who received the Holy Spirit, were not born again?
They had been baptised so I would think they probably were since worldly renunciation seems to have been the norm back then.

You seem to want to say it is only for a chosen few and it's not. That mentality is kinda elitist IMO. The Spirit is for everyone who wants it.

I do not want to say that since God does not choose, we do.
(The "chosen ones" is an OT, Yahwist idea).

Yes, the H.S. is for everyone who wants it
but they can only receive it if they give up their old lives.
Simon found that out!

phildee3

30-04-2009, 01:43 AM

Phildee, you enjoy doing word "twists' don't you?

I have not twisted your words here,
in fact I have untwisted them!

amethyst

30-04-2009, 01:44 AM

The Holy Spirit is God!!!

"If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him!" -Jesus Yeshua the Christ (Luke 11:13)

"Then they laid hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit." (Acts 8:17)

"There are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit." (1st Corinthians 12:4)

Yes, the Holy Spirit is a manifestation of the Godhead, and God gives the Holy Spirit to indivdual people, which can manifest in various gifts: wisdom, knowledge, healing, power, etc.

Gifts: greek word "charisma" which means:

"grace or gifts denoting extraordinary powers, distinguishing certain Christians and enabling them to serve the church of Christ, the reception of which is due to the power of divine grace operating on their souls by the Holy Spirit"

miracles

30-04-2009, 02:35 AM

Phildee, you enjoy doing word "twists' don't you?

I concure :o

novymir

30-04-2009, 03:53 AM

What exactly is The Holy Spirit?

It's religion-speak.

IT is the TRUE SELF.

The spirit of the Creator resides within all Life, at all times( but not everything we percieve as Life is!). There's no magical "spirit" that "descends" or "enters", except the COUNTERFEIT.
We are all of the spirit of the Creator---- it is what we are, why we are, who we are. It's always there. We just are benumbed to it, distracted from it, attacked because of it... to destroy our identity with IT, to fool us into thinking we've been abandoned by it, and get us to accept a lie about what we are. To be used and tricked into self-destruction, to feed energy into Error, with it's sick denial of TRUTH, and it's pitiful delusion of separation and superiority. It is an accident, a mistake, denial compounded into insanity.
There is only One True response to it.

And it does everything it does to provoke that which conflicts with that response.

What is TRUTH?
Answer: that which does not conflict with the Creative Spirit of LOVE-LIFE-FORGIVENESS=TRUTH. Within. Without.
I am,,, Creative Energy Being,,, I am, of THAT.

tusme

30-04-2009, 08:25 AM

Hi tusme :)

Puppet Religious leaders: Using "God"/Christ, for their own ends, their own gain.

Not sure what you are asking but I agree that a great many of denominations have their puppet religious leaders- particularly the ones' you see on TV who are always begging for money.....what do they need that for? To build more tv studios? Bigger houses for themselves? Bigger jets? Seems "elitist' to me, and probably a "smoke screen' for the elite to confuse people all the more, that "they" are the ones that have a corner on the "truth".

To be "born again" of the Holy Spirit, is God's invitiation to the individual. It's all about the individual having a relationship with God through His Spirit, and then one can sharing truth you have recieved from the Spirit, who gladly gives all good spiritual things to us. He's not stingy.

It just starts simply with "asking" God.

Christ said "Ask, and you shall receive". "So I say to you, ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you.(Luke 11:9)

It's certainly shouldn't be forced on anyone, and any leader who does that just might have a coercive agenda behind them ie; getting more money from you / your loyalty? etc. etc?
Hmm, Yep, "Thieving Bast..ds!!" :D

Intent on stealing all our energy...!! Hence, Religion (Christianity, in my case) has never made sense to me...!! And I always had a problem with "tithing"...of any kind...!? :eek: :D I bet they wouldn't be interested in my offering of Truth, now...would they!? :D

These puppets, have been installed intentionally, to keep the masses dumbed down, obedient & submissive...through fear...of GOD (Truth)!!

Religion, all of it, have lost it's Spirit...the Truth, which it was borne out of...!!

Tbh, it's Religion itself, that needs to be "born again"...hmm, how would you suggest that be done...!? :confused:

tusme

30-04-2009, 08:34 AM

God gives the Holy Spirit to anyone who wants Him.
We enter this Physical realm (at birth), already "given" the Holy Spirit...it's our Life's teachers, who, for some reason or other, haven't related this to us...!!

So, when we eventually (oneday) acknowledge our Spirit (Truth), we basically, open the door (for ourselves) for the Holy Spirit to flow through ourselves (Spirit) again...!!

So, the Holy Spirit has always been present...just not us, being awake to this fact/Truth... ;) :)

miracles

30-04-2009, 09:27 AM

We enter this Physical realm (at birth), already "given" the Holy Spirit...it's our Life's teachers, who, for some reason or other, haven't related this to us...!!

So, when we eventually (oneday) acknowledge our Spirit (Truth), we basically, open the door (for ourselves) for the Holy Spirit to flow through ourselves (Spirit) again...!!

So, the Holy Spirit has always been present...just not us, being awake to this fact/Truth... ;) :)

What a load of untruth!

Right lets get to the strong meat and off mothers tit. What exactly was it that you discovered that you didnt know before when you all of sudden miraculously became awakened by the spirit of truth that was apparently lying dormant with in you since you entered the physical realm and what exactly was it that awakened the sleeping spirit of truth? Because if you want us all to unite and become a power house of unity in order to defeat the evil new world order, your going to have to do a darn site better than this to explain what it is you are rambling on about. At the moment your philosophy appears to be an extremly subjective nebulous concept, and if you think I am being negative and trying to prove you wrong, dont! because none of what your are saying is cabable of being proved wrong, because there is nothing of any substance to hang a hat on let alone prove wrong. It's meaningless and certainly not truth. Nothing personal. Im just tired of listening to your groundless unsubstantiated nebulous philosphy. With a wave of your hand you have discounted the validity of all religion including Christianity and the bible and replaced it with what? NOTHING! MUST DO BETTER. YOUR NOT MAKING ANY SENSE

PS. When I started tithing, I went from making 50,ooo a year to 150,000 a year in very short period of time. It's the principle of including God in all of our affairs, he gives us 100 percent and asks for 10, and when we trust him with 10 he repays it back ten fold on top of of that again. You can't out give God. It's a law, an established law in the universe, if you give, it will be given back ten fold. Even un believers can and do benifit from this law.

Luk 6:38 Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.

You' ve never understood it because you never experienced the TRUTH of it. Your offering of truth has no value, because it isn't true.

element

30-04-2009, 10:04 AM

phildee3

30-04-2009, 10:14 AM

"If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him!" (Luke 11:13)

Well done!
You have found one scripture that supports your position.
(the ones from Acts and Corinthians, in this sme post, do not).
However much this flies in the face of a whole soup of information to the contrary, it needs to be dealt with.
Is it a mistranslation?
I don't think so.
More likely to have been added at some point.
I'll look into it.
The whole of the first two thirds (approx.) of this chapter seems suspect - quite foreign.

Please post any other scriptures that are as clear as this one to support your position.
It will help me test my null hypothesis.

tusme

30-04-2009, 11:09 AM

:D Hey Miracles!!

What a load of untruth!
Hmm, seems, you have a serious problem with Truth, ain't it...!? :D

Right lets get to the strong meat and off mothers tit. What exactly was it that you discovered that you didnt know before when you all of sudden miraculously became awakened by the spirit of truth that was apparently lying dormant with in you since you entered the physical realm and what exactly was it that awakened the sleeping spirit of truth?
Well, my life, in comparison to the "big picture-life", I was lead to believe (by my life's teachers), has always been a problem for me to understand...I was always being "ranked/boxed/standardized" by society (including my life's teachers & Religion)...and it bothered me, to no end...!!

Until oneday, something very personal happened to me...if I can find the post, somewhere in the "Have a Laugh" section, then I'll insert the link over here...http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showpost.php?p=449416&postcount=4982

Anyway, in a nutshell, to realise the Spirit Truth within oneself...a conscious decision needs to be taken...firstly, that the Physical and the Spirit beings (in this realm), is in an "unbreakable" relationship...that the Spirit (Truth) is in existence since the "beginning", and the physical, of-course, only since birth...

The next level of understanding, re, this relationship is, that the Spirit (Truth) is always the guide (leader/decision maker/creator), meaning, whether for us or against us, Truth needs to exist in exactly that form...otherwise, Truth (GOD) cannot set us free...!!

From this point, all it takes, is to constantly observe how Truth is presented to/expressed through oneself...even in the minutest form...remember, the demonstration the other day...? Well, thats a perfect example...!!

Also, the manner in which, I started learning to know it (Spirit Truth) was, every morning as travelled to work, I would "greet" everyone I passed, without actually indicating to them physically that I was greeting them...I would simply look everywhere I could, and in my mind, project the (Truth) energy of greeting absolutely everyone I could see...even those I couldn't see...!!

After that, it simply progressed (through meditation/stillness) to what it is at present...being and knowing Truth...and sharing it!!

Most importantly, however, simply co's we "possess" the Spirit (Truth) within ourselves, doesn't mean we can go around claiming to be GOD...that would be absolute delusion!! Why? co's that would mean, the person is placing the Physical (Truth) before the Spirit (Truth) :eek:...and that, ain't gonna work...impossible!! Truth cannot be tricked...remember, it knows the "past, Now & future", perfectly...!!

So, anyone going round doing so, will soon enough be exposed for what they are...a FAKE!!

Because if you want us all to unite and become a power house of unity in order to defeat the evil new world order, your going to have to do a darn site better than this to explain what it is you are rambling on about.
Through my Spirit (Truth), I am expressing Truth...

GOD (Truth) has it's own Perfect Purpose and Timing...for when we (individually) choose to unite our own Physical (Truth) & Spirit (Truth) beings and then progress onto uniting it with everyone else's exact same choice, en-masse (all of us then, becoming One with the Whole)...only then, will it be possible to drive-out the "crap" that is going on, on the Earth...for good!! ...and for Truth to prevail...so we can all live in Love, Peace, Freedom & Harmony...in a life without fear, wars, hatred and all other types of negativity...!! Why? co's where there is Truth, fear (war, hatred & all negativity) is non-existent...!!

At the moment your philosophy appears to be an extremly subjective nebulous concept, and if you think I am being negative and trying to prove you wrong, dont!
It matters not what I think or say...Truth is perfect...regardless of mankind's decisions (in this realm), it WILL prevail...!!

because none of what your are saying is cabable of being proved wrong, because there is nothing of any substance to hang a hat on let alone prove wrong.
Hmm, aint (GOD's) Truth just perfect...!? :D

It's meaningless and certainly not truth. Nothing personal.
Sometimes, if one is looking for it (Truth) in the "wrong places", it does indeed, seem like Truth is meaningless...hmm, and not even appearing as Truth...!! :D

Don't worry, I know you're not being personal...I know, I can tell, you've got an amazing Spirit...the Truth, just bursting to experience/express itself...!! :D

Im just tired of listening to your groundless unsubstantiated nebulous philosphy.
Well, it's called free-will...no-one's forcing you to listen to me, nor Truth...!!

Oneday, no-doubt, you WILL awaken to your Spirit...and you'll see how silly your words have been...!!

With a wave of your hand you have discounted the validity of all religion including Christianity and the bible and replaced it with what? NOTHING! MUST DO BETTER. YOUR NOT MAKING ANY SENSE
I've had no choice in Religion's origins, but it was imposed on me...and made me feel inferior throughout my life...

Now, with the Spirit, that has never been the case...!!

Btw, I don't have a problem with Religion, certainly not with Christianity...and I'm pretty sure GOD ain't either...co's if that were true, GOD would have ended it long ago...!!

What I am merely trying to do is, express Truth...and help people (of all Religions & otherwise) to have a better understanding of GOD (Truth) and their Religion...co's, what is Religion without Truth, anway...? Nothing, right!?

Well then, wouldn't it make sense, to first know Truth and then, incorporate Religion into one's reality...if that is one's choice...!?

Most people (you included, unfortunately) have it the other way round...!! No wonder the World is in such a mess...!!

Anyway, I hope all this made sense...?

tusme

30-04-2009, 11:13 AM

Very true. No one can even exist if they would be disconnected to God. Everyone's Self is always is connection to the whole, but to know this consciously it takes Self awareness. Most of us, if not all of us, are sleeping giants.
Exactly!! ;) http://www.davidicke.com/forum/images/icons/icon14.gif

The World has become what it is, because of tptb's determination to keep us away from this knowledge...Truth...and we let them...!?

They (tptb) alone, wants to be the "giants"...!! :D

phildee3

30-04-2009, 12:10 PM

IT is the TRUE SELF.

There's no magical "spirit" that "descends" or "enters", except the COUNTERFEIT.

We enter this Physical realm (at birth), already "given" the Holy Spirit...

So, when we eventually (oneday) acknowledge our Spirit (Truth), we basically, open the door (for ourselves) for the Holy Spirit to flow through ourselves (Spirit) again...!!

So, the Holy Spirit has always been present...just not us, being awake to this fact/Truth... ;) :)

Very well said, both of you!

If we were sinless, in a world without sin (sin = error, disharmony) than the H.S. would be in and around us all the time.
As it is, we block it out.
When the old, "sinful" self "dies," and we start a completely new life, we restore that condition.

phildee3

30-04-2009, 12:30 PM

What exactly is your belief system if you don't mind me asking? So I can get a grasp of where your point of view is coming from.

Apols. for delay in responding...

I don't adhere to any one "belief system."
I go on understanding, not belief,
but I do consider all belief systems (including atheism and agnosticism) and take from them those things which are consistant with each other.

The "belief system" that comes closest to what my spiritual path (and religious practice) is, would be early Christianity in Britain (ie. Celtic Christianity), but since it was viritually obliterated by the RC's, I suppose you could call me a "Celtic Christian Reconstuctionist," but please don't pin that label on me too firmly (ouch!). ;)

Through ordination (up to, and including, the order of Acolyte), I am carrying Old Catholic, Orthodox, Coptic, Anglican and Roman Catholic lines of apostolic succession, among others. I am also an initiate of the Druidic tradition as a bard.
I am a member of no sect or earthly organisation.

I am also an avid reader and practitioner of anthroposophy.

miracles

30-04-2009, 12:40 PM

:D Hey Miracles!!

Hmm, seems, you have a serious problem with Truth, ain't it...!? :D

Well, my life, in comparison to the "big picture-life" I was lead to believe (by my life's teachers) has always been a problem for me to understand...I was always being "ranked/boxed/standardized" by society (including my life's teachers)...and it bothered me, to no end...!!

Until oneday, something very personal happened to me...if I can find the post, somewhere in the "Have a Laugh" section, then I'll insert the link over here...http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showpost.php?p=449416&postcount=4982

Anyway, in a nutshell, to realise the Spirit Truth within oneself...a conscious decision needs to be taken...firstly, that the Physical and the Spirit beings (in this realm), is in an "unbreakable" relationship...that the Spirit (Truth) is in existence since the "beginning", and the physical, of-course, only since birth...

The next level of understanding, re, this relationship is, that the Spirit (Truth) is always the guide (leader/decision maker), meaning, whether for us or against us, the Truth needs to exist in exactly that form...otherwise, Truth (GOD) cannot set us free...!!

From this point, all it takes, is to constantly observe how Truth is presented to/expressed through oneself...even in the minutest form...remember, the demonstration the other day...? Well, thats a perfect example...

Also, the manner in which, I started learning to know it (Spirit Truth) was, every morning as travelled to work, I would "greet" everyone I passed, without actually indicating to them physically that I was greeting them...I would simply look everywhere I could, and in my mind, project the energy of greeting absolutely everyone I could see...even those I couldn't see...!!

After that, it simply progressed (through meditation-stillness) to what it is at present...being and knowing Truth...!!

Most importantly, however, simply co's we "possess" the Spirit (Truth) within ourselves, doesn't mean we can go around claiming to be GOD...that would be absolute delusion!! And, anyone going around doing so, will soon enough be exposed for what they are...a FAKE!!

Through my Spirit (Truth), I am expressing Truth...

GOD (Truth) has it's own Perfect Purpose and Timing...for when we (individually) will unite our own Physical (Truth) & Spirit (Truth) beings and then progress onto uniting it with everyone else's, en-masse (all of us then, becoming One with the Whole)...to drive-out the "crap" that is going on, on the Earth...for good!! ...and for Truth to prevail...so we can all live in Love, Peace, Freedom & Harmony...in a life without fear, wars, hatred and all sorts of other negativity...!!

It matters not what I think or say...Truth is perfect...it WILL prevail...!!

Hmm, aint (GOD's) Truth perfect...!? :D

Sometimes, if one is looking for it (Truth) in the "wrong places", it does indeed, seem like Truth is meaningless...hmm, and not even appearing as Truth...!! :D

Don't worry, I know you're not being personal...I know, I can see in your Spirit, you've got an amazing Truth...just bursting to experience/express itself...!! :D

Well, it's called free-will...no-one's forcing you to listen to me, nor Truth...!!

Oneday, no-doubt, you WILL awaken to your Spirit...and you'll see how silly your words have been...!!

I've had no choice in Religion's origins, but it was imposed on me...and made me feel inferior throughout my life...

Now, with the Spirit, that has never been the case...!!

Btw, I don't have a problem with Religion, certainly not with Christianity...and I'm pretty sure GOD ain't either...co's if that were true, GOD would have ended it long ago...!!

What I am merely trying to do is, express Truth...and help people (of all Religions) to have a better understanding of GOD (Truth) and their Religion...co's, what is Religion without Truth, anway...? Nothing, right!?

Well then, wouldn't it make sense, to first know Truth and then, incorporate Religion into one's reality...?

Most people (you included, unfortunately) have it the other way round...!! No wonder the World is in such a mess...!!

Anyway, I hope all this made sense...?

No I dont have a problem with truth, I have a problem with nebulous concepts mascarading as truth, but at least you have gone someway to put a bit of meat on the bones of what you believe and clarified your views on religion etc and I thank you for the effort and the kind words.
Perhaps one day I will awake to find out I have been foolish and when I do I will be the first to admit it.

Until then, what do you mean about "the other day"

Also one doesnt need to make a conscious decison about being alive IE body and spirit, it is self evident,I think therefore I am, and all that hoo haa.

Also what did greeting everybody in your mind acheive (im not knocking it, but again, what where the fruits) Meditation and relaxation techniques etc, result in certain benefits to any who practise these things, it's not a great awakening of epic proportion persay. I've felt like I was enveloped by the love of God at times whilst in meditation, it was an extremly real powerful, powerful sensation of wave after waves of love light and beauty. Still my awakening came at the moment of my salvation, This is when the scales where lifted from my eyes, and I could see who was really ruling over this world and it is a very great evil that prevades all of society, the truth is it's satanic, this is the power that rules, the prince of the pwoer of the air and Christ is the only way truth and life to get out of it.

Your still nebulising about some great day of awakening in my future without explaining what it is or what its supposed to be, how to get there and what it's going to look like.

Men/flesh are not in controll of what's going on in the world, they are puppets of the puppet master. One day I hope you will be awakend to this truth. This is not a competition to win an arguement, this is a struggle for truth, because it is battle over the hearts and minds and the very eternal souls of all mankind.

tusme

30-04-2009, 01:25 PM

Very well said, both of you!

If we were sinless, in a world without sin (sin = error, disharmony) than the H.S. would be in and around us all the time.
As it is, we block it out.
When the old, "sinful" self "dies," and we start a completely new life, we restore that condition.
Thanks Phildee3...!!

Imho, when we let the Physical being take the lead (experiences/expression of our reality/life), then it's more than likely, we will move away from our Spirit being...co's, the Spirit being simply continues it's Truth journey (which is constant), regardless of our Physical being's reality...

So, while the Physical being has moved away from the Spirit being, a void is created...and this void, is then filled with an imposter (negative energy) spirit...it is exactly this area (of our beings), that tptb exploit...through religions, education, the media, etc, etc...simply to keep us away from knowing our Spirit Truth, which will let us know exactly what this (their) game is about...!!

Now, when we get back to knowing and being our Spirit (Truth), it'll be at this point, that the "re-birth/born-again/re-born" stage begins...

So you see, Religion has very little to do with re-membering with one's Spirit (Truth), it can be done at exactly the moment one becomes "awakened" to it...!!

Again...Truth has it's own Perfect, Purpose and Timing...!! ;) :)

tusme

30-04-2009, 02:31 PM

No I dont have a problem with truth, I have a problem with nebulous concepts mascarading as truth, but at least you have gone someway to put a bit of meat on the bones of what you believe and clarified your views on religion etc and I thank you for the effort and the kind words.
Apologies, for being "nebulous"...I really am trying my best to bring you to the point of knowing and being, Truth...the rest is up to you...!!

Otherwise, you're welcome...!! Truth is kind, in any form of energy... ;) http://www.davidicke.com/forum/images/icons/icon14.gif

Perhaps one day I will awake to find out I have been foolish and when I do I will be the first to admit it.
Well, I know of some people who have never "awakened"...but I know, when they left this realm, to once again be exclusively Spirit energy again...they immediately became One with the Whole...thus, awakened to the Truth!!

Until then, what do you mean about "the other day"
Sorry, I meant, regarding the demonstration I offered you the other day, re, "touching your head"...

Also one doesnt need to make a conscious decison about being alive IE body and spirit, it is self evident,I think therefore I am, and all that hoo haa.
Of-course it is self-evident...why then, do you continue denying your Spirit (Truth)...!?

Many people will accept, their Spirit is self-evident...yet, you watch their decision making...they will lie without even blinking...accept a bribe, without even bothering to think, that the Spirit (Truth) knows everything...!!

Also what did greeting everybody in your mind acheive (im not knocking it, but again, what where the fruits) Meditation and relaxation techniques etc, result in certain benefits to any who practise these things, it's not a great awakening of epic proportion persay.
Good question...!!

My "greeting people", to me anyway, proved my trustworthiness to GOD (Truth) & my Spirit...even while I am sitting here at my PC, I'm still greeting people...!!

Meditation, is the Physical beings way of letting the Spirit being know, it is "following"...thus, the Spirit being, because only It exists in the Spirit (GOD/Truth) realm, will allow for our Physical being to be "energised accordingly"...!! And, the more you do it, the more, one becomes a master over the Physical being or whatever the Physical realm is trying to project at/towards us...

Furthermore, GOD can only be GOD, and Truth can only be Truth...OK!?

Now, if we, lead by our Spirit (Truth) being, exists as being and knowing Truth (in this Physical realm), then, we are actually ensuring GOD will have no other choice but to consider our (Truth)thoughts/actions...as a matter of priority!! Why? co's GOD cannot be anything else but GOD...and Truth cannot be anything other than Truth...!! If this doesn't make sense, then simply look at it as a "strict observation of principle"...hopefully, it will make sense to you in that way...?

I've felt like I was enveloped by the love of God at times whilst in meditation, it was an extremly real powerful, powerful sensation of wave after waves of love light and beauty.
Indeed, meditation is an extremely real powerful experience...!! Now why are you displaying all this doubt, re, Truth, in your Life...!? :confused: :D

Still my awakening came at the moment of my salvation, This is when the scales where lifted from my eyes, and I could see who was really ruling over this world and it is a very great evil that prevades all of society, the truth is it's satanic, this is the power that rules, the prince of the pwoer of the air and Christ is the only way truth and life to get out of it.
Salvation, is a Physical realm condition/limitation...!!

As a Spirit (Truth) being, you are One with the Whole...!! Salvation, as in the kind that your life's teachers have created in your mind, is holding you back...and preventing you from realising the "Infinite Possibilities", which your Spirit (Truth) gifts you when simply being and knowing it...!!

Your still nebulising about some great day of awakening in my future without explaining what it is or what its supposed to be, how to get there and what it's going to look like.
Hmm, you really do love these words, "nebulous/nebulising", don't you...!?

Mate, I can only help you as far as I can...the rest of your "awakening" can only be done by you...alone!!

Men/flesh are not in controll of what's going on in the world, they are puppets of the puppet master.
Thats true...!! But, that doesn't mean that there aren't people who understand these "principles of Truth", and who also, in this realm anway, prefer using that knowledge to further their own selfish & evil objectives...ie, to control and enslave mankind...!?

One day I hope you will be awakend to this truth.
Mate, I am ready for to move on from this existence...I can do more for mankind, being on the otherside...!! ;) :D As exclusively Truth energy...again!!

This is not a competition to win an arguement, this is a struggle for truth, because it is battle over the hearts and minds and the very eternal souls of all mankind.
Truth is perfect...!! If you and I, both at the same time, realise that our Spirit Truth is one and the same with the Whole (GOD), then, any form of competition is non-existent...nevermind useless...& selfish!!

Also, Truth is never a struggle...it ain't Truth, if it is...!!

The "battle over hearts & mind", as you say, only exists in the Physical realm...otherwise, in the Spirit realm, our Spirit being (energy) is perfectly in unison with the Whole (GOD)...!!

Whoever it is, "trying to win the hearts & souls of mankind"...is trying to keep you away from your Spirit Truth...ie, maintaining the "void" between our Physical & Spirit beings...in other words, using that "imposter (negative) energy", to keep us controlled and enslaved...!!

Ps, I've edited my previous post, direct to you...perhaps you might want to re-read it...!?

Thanks Miracles!!

miracles

01-05-2009, 06:25 AM

[QUOTE=tusme;961700]Apologies, for being "nebulous"...I really am trying my best to bring you to the point of knowing and being, Truth...the rest is up to you...!!

Firstly thank you for all your effort in the response..

The thing is you aren’t bringing anything out regarding knowing and being. The rest is up to me you say? To build a house you need a hammer. You arent giving me a hammer mate.

. Well, I know of some people who have never "awakened"...but I know, when they left this realm, to once again be exclusively Spirit energy again...they immediately became One with the Whole...thus, awakened to the Truth!!

Yes and I know some of them are in for a very rude awakening. Truth is truth, and sometimes the truth is people are very unkind. “forms of energy” ? Again very nebulous, energy can be negative as you said yourself on many occasions

You still haven’t explained what “awakened” means or what it means to be awakened other than being struck by a bolt of lightening at your computer, which could be interpreted to mean all manner of things. You can’t base a believe system on a personal experience and or attack another believe system on the basis of personal experience. Well, I suppose you can but it don’t hold water.

Of-course it is self-evident...why then, do you continue denying your Spirit (Truth)...!?

You say I’m denying it, but I am not. I’m rejecting your notion that to “make a decision to connect ones conscious mind to ones spirit” is how one becomes awakened. Because there is no truth to it, we don’t need to make a conscious decision, but the fact of the matter is, it is a reality. Other than, off course to meditate which I concure, is beneficial for connecting with ones innerself/spirit.

Many people will accept, their Spirit is self-evident...yet, you watch their decision making...they will lie without even blinking...accept a bribe, without even bothering to think, that the Spirit (Truth) knows everything...!!

I see this is the fallen human condition, the very reason Christ had to die to save us all and awakne our spirits and reconnect us with God. Mans spirit is fallen from birth, which is why a human being can do all manner of things that are evil in the sight of almighty God, and further proof that the spirit of truth IE the holy spirit is not in him. As you know I see the bible as the truth, if you are stating things that are contradictory to that, I can do nothing less than conclude that you are speaking untruth! If you conclude from this that I am undercontroll from the powres that be, again, to me this is not truth.

My "greeting people", to me anyway, proved my trustworthiness to GOD (Truth) & my Spirit...even while I am sitting here at my PC, I'm still greeting people..]

Well great, nothing wrong with that, thinking good thoughts is advised.

Meditation, is the Physical beings way of letting the Spirit being know, it is "following"...thus, the Spirit being, because only It exists in the Spirit (GOD/Truth) realm, will allow for our Physical being to be "energised accordingly"...!! And, the more you do it, the more, one becomes a master over the Physical being or whatever the Physical realm is trying to project at/towards us...

I have attempted to show you that meditation does not tie in with what you are talking about, which is why I raised it in the first place? Are you saying through meditation on is awakened? Or that one is in touch with ones spirit and God, because I believe that?

Furthermore, GOD can only be GOD, and Truth can only be Truth...OK!?

No argument there and God can never lie, and?

Now, if we, lead by our Spirit (Truth) being, exists as being and knowing Truth (in this Physical realm), then, we are actually ensuring GOD will have no other choice but to consider our (Truth)thoughts/actions...as a matter of priority!! Why? co's GOD cannot be anything else but GOD...and Truth cannot be anything other than Truth...!! If this doesn't make sense, then simply look at it as a "strict observation of principle"...hopefully, it will make sense to you in that way...?

Our spirit is lead by the choices we make based upon truth, our spirit is not necessarily truth, which is why as you pointed out humans can and do lie etc. If on the other hand ones spirit yields to the truth of God and chooses God’s will over ones own will, then this will manifest as the fruits of righteousness in the physical realm. But we have to be lead by the spirit of God, not by our own corrupted spirit. What you appear to be saying is that mans spirit is inherently holy from birth, which I’m sorry to say, is lie straight out of the pit of hell and couldn’t be further from the truth.

meditation is an extremely real powerful experience...!! Now why are you displaying all this doubt, re, Truth, in your Life...!?

Umm, I’m not! I am displaying a huge amount of doubt in the validity of your concept of truth. Because I feel within my spirit that it is far from the truth.

Salvation is a Physical realm condition/limitation...!!

Totally untrue, salvation is an entirely spiritual transaction between us and God. To which the fruits of said transaction will manifest into the physical provided one continues to yield to the spirit of God’s will,

As a Spirit (Truth) being, you are One with the Whole...!! Salvation, as in the kind that your life's teachers have created in your mind, is holding you back...and preventing you from realising the "Infinite Possibilities", which your Spirit (Truth) gifts you when simply being and knowing it...!!

No one is a spirit truth being. We are beings with a spirit, as a Christian, I believe we are born spiritually dead until we are born again in the spirit. The bible teaches me assisted by the Holy Spirit and the bible is the irrefutable word of God, and it has not held me back in the slightest it has raised me up out of the muck and mire and prospered me in ways I could never have imagined in my wildest dreams.

Hmm, you really do love these words, "nebulous/nebulising", don't you...!?

Only because your ideas are nebulous to me IE Nebulous
1. hazy, vague, indistinct, or confused: a nebulous recollection of the meeting; a nebulous distinction between pride and conceit.
2. cloudy or cloudlike.

Mate, I can only help you as far as I can...the rest of your "awakening" can only be done by you...alone!!

I find this statement interesting in a number of ways because I can be taken in a number of ways. A) that you are being patronizing condescending and view me as un-awakened individual B) that you are making a genuine attempt to awaken me.

I’ll go with b) for now. However let me assure you, I believe myself to be equally if not more awakened as you believe yourself to be.

Mate, I am ready for to move on from this existence...I can do more for mankind,
being on the otherside...!! As exclusively Truth energy...again!!

WHAT? Don’t go whack job on me now fella, and top yourself or anything daft!!

Truth is perfect...!! If you and I, both at the same time, realise that our Spirit Truth is one and the same with the Whole (GOD), then, any form of competition is non-existent...never mind useless...& selfish!!

Unless two are agreed, unfortunately they can not walk together. Yes undoubtedly we can walk together live in harmony together enjoy each others company live peaceably together, and may that be the case, however our application of the beautiful TRUTH, appears to be somewhat diametrically opposed at this present juncture.

Also, Truth is never a struggle...it ain't Truth, if it is...!!

Truth is truth as you rightly say, however there can be, and are, major struggles when conflicting views of what absolute truth is.

The "battle over hearts & mind", as you say, only exists in the Physical realm...otherwise, in the Spirit realm, our Spirit being (energy) is perfectly in unison with the Whole (GOD)...!!

The spirit is internal as is the heart as is the mind and these elements are bombarded constantly from the physical.

Whoever it is, "trying to win the hearts & souls of mankind"...is trying to keep you away from your Spirit Truth...ie, maintaining the "void" between our Physical & Spirit beings...in other words, using that "imposter (negative) energy", to keep us controlled and enslaved...!!

Rubbish, I am free my good man, I am free. I have no fear of what any man may do to me. The Spirit of the living God resides within me. Halleluiah! What a saviour!

phildee3

01-05-2009, 11:29 AM

Thanks Phildee3...!!

Imho, when we let the Physical being take the lead (experiences/expression of our reality/life), then it's more than likely, we will move away from our Spirit being...co's, the Spirit being simply continues it's Truth journey (which is constant), regardless of our Physical being's reality...

So, while the Physical being has moved away from the Spirit being, a void is created...and this void, is then filled with an imposter (negative energy) spirit...it is exactly this area (of our beings), that tptb exploit...through religions, education, the media, etc, etc...simply to keep us away from knowing our Spirit Truth, which will let us know exactly what this (their) game is about...!!

Now, when we get back to knowing and being our Spirit (Truth), it'll be at this point, that the "re-birth/born-again/re-born" stage begins...

So you see, Religion has very little to do with re-membering with one's Spirit (Truth), it can be done at exactly the moment one becomes "awakened" to it...!!

Again...Truth has it's own Perfect, Purpose and Timing...!! ;) :)

I pretty much agree with you,
and it is in line with the teachings of the Master,
but I would like to add that after dying to the old self, and being reborn to a new life, it is possible for the new "you" to be drawn into worldly things again. To avoid this "backsliding," it is good to have religious discipline.
It could be practicing strict monogamy within the sacrament of Holy Matrimony, or getting up early to say Prime every morning, or attending mass regularly, or turning towards Mecca at the prescribed times, prayer and fasting, bridling one's tongue, stilling the mind through meditation/contemplation, purposeful avoidance of certain worldy things (TV on top of the list!!!), etc. etc. etc.

tusme

01-05-2009, 11:44 AM

Firstly thank you for all your effort in the response..
No worries mate...!!

The thing is you aren’t bringing anything out regarding knowing and being. The rest is up to me you say? To build a house you need a hammer. You arent giving me a hammer mate.
Forget the hammer...I've given you the toolbox...the masonry...the archetectural plans...and the foundation...!!

Hmm, lemme know, when you'd like me to start building...!? :D

You still haven’t explained what “awakened” means or what it means to be awakened other than being struck by a bolt of lightening at your computer, which could be interpreted to mean all manner of things. You can’t base a believe system on a personal experience and or attack another believe system on the basis of personal experience. Well, I suppose you can but it don’t hold water.
"Awakened" means, the Physical being truly awakening to our Spirit (Truth), the part of us that is permenently connected to GOD (Truth)...and it's relationship with everything else that EXIST/IS...ie, Truth!! ...in this Physical realm and the Spirit realm.

Not, the kind of "awakening" that is insisted upon us, through fear, by our religious leaders/teachers...!?

Indeed, a "bolt of lightning can mean all manner of things"...but, if one considers what I was going through at the time...that to me, anyway, represented GOD's way of letting me know..."how dare I question GOD's Power/Truth?" And as I said, everything about my life, simply became more and more clear, after that...!!

Anyway, it's up to you, what all manner of things would represent for your understanding... Perhaps, that is the reason I know Truth and you're still "seeking it"...!?

You say I’m denying it, but I am not. I’m rejecting your notion that to “make a decision to connect ones conscious mind to ones spirit” is how one becomes awakened. Because there is no truth to it, we don’t need to make a conscious decision, but the fact of the matter is, it is a reality. In other words you’re talking utter nonsense man.
Well, if you're not denying it...then why do you still require a "hammer"...!?

And, if you think there is "no Truth in it"...then, you're also justifying the "un-truth" that the "born-again/re-born" Christian idea is all about...!? :confused:

And in that case, it is you who's doing all the "utter nonesense" talking...

Mate, besides the fact you will cease to exist without the Holy Bible...it seems to me, you've compartmentalised all your (mind's) knowledge, re, your Physical being, Spiritual being, it's relationship with the Universe and of-course, with GOD...!? And now, seem to struggle connecting the dots...ie, connecting all the different compartments...!?

Hmm, the "pyramid" (inside your mind) is crumbling my friend...!!

I have attempted to show you that meditation does not tie in with what you are talking about, which is why I raised it in the first place? Are you saying through meditation on is awakened? Or that one is in touch with ones spirit and God, because I believe that?
Mate, neither you nor I (or anyone past, Now or future) will ever know exactly what happens to the Spirit (Truth) during meditation...so whatever you're trying to give us, is indeed, utter nonesense...what the Physical realm knows of the Spirit realm, does not even represent a fraction of what there IS about the Spirit realm...!!

Engaging in mediation, means, one's awakening is at an advanced stage...would you start praying, if you didn't know the Holy Bible...? Well then...!?

No argument there and God can never lie, and?
...and, if you could merely observe the principle of your words, re "GOD can never lie"...then you would immediately know Truth (GOD)...!!

Our spirit is lead by the choices we make based upon truth, our spirit is not necessarily truth, which is why as you pointed out humans can and do lie etc.
No! That is what your life's teachers have taught you to believe...and the reason it makes "sense" to you, is because you're using the "imposter (negative) energy" to dis-credit the Spirit (Truth), that, with which you have been born with...!!

Also, to me anyway, a clear indication of just how far-away from Truth, you are...

If on the other hand ones spirit yields to the truth of God and chooses God’s will over ones own will, then this will manifest as the fruits of righteousness in the physical realm.
The entire Spirit (Truth) is made up of, exclusively GOD (Truth) energy...so how could the same energy yield to itself...eh!? :confused:

Truth begets Truth...!! Righteousness, imho, besides being an attempt (by tptb) to limit GOD (Truth), is rendered useless by Truth energy...!!

But we have to be lead by the spirit of God, not by our own corrupted spirit. What you appear to be saying is that mans spirit is inherently holy from birth, which I’m sorry to say, is lie straight out of the pit of hell and couldn’t be further from the truth.
Again, the entire Spirit (Truth) is made up GOD (Truth energy), which we refer to as the Holy Spirit or Spirit of GOD, ...so, how does one differentiate between the "2" energy's...it can't be done, it's impossible...not in this realm it can't be done, anyway...!!

Of-course, "man's Spirit is inherently holy from birth"...!! Otherwise, are you saying GOD (Truth) is a failure...!? If you asked me, GOD probably knew there'd be people who said "His/Her" creation was flawed...however, if one considers the Spirit (Truth), it is perfect...!! The Physical being might be "flawed"...but the Spirit...!? No-way...Jose!!

Mate, the "oneness" connection between Spirit (Truth energy) and GOD (Truth energy) is Infinite...!!

Umm, I’m not! I am displaying a huge amount of doubt in the validity of your concept of truth. Because I feel within my spirit that it is far from the truth.
Hmm, typical Cognative Dissonance...!! :D ...it seems, you know very little about your Spirit (Truth)...unfortunately...perhaps it's not your time to know it yet...!? You sure, you not having any sleepless nights, denying your Spirit (Truth) like this...!? :D

]Totally untrue, salvation is an entirely spiritual transaction between us and God. To which the fruits of said transaction will manifest into the physical provided one continues to yield to the spirit of God’s will,
You're quite fond of word analysis, aren't you? ...interesting that the word, "Salvation" seemed to have escaped such "treatment"...?

Again, "salvation" is a Physical realm reality...meaning, could only have come from mankind's understanding...otherwise, if it were from GOD, it would mean, the principles of Truth have been breached...and as you already have agreed, GOD cannot lie...!! ;) ...need anymore proof/evidence...!?

No one is a spirit truth being.
As I've chosen to follow my Spirit (Truth), I am Truth being...!!

We are beings with a spirit, as a Christian, I believe we are born spiritually dead until we are born again in the spirit.
Our only purpose is to be Truth, the Spirit already IS...now, if only the Physical being would awaken to it's Truth, then it can be said, we're One with the Whole...!!

Christianity, btw, was chosen for you by your ancestry...not GOD!! Step out of your box and witness for yourself, all of GOD's wonderful (Truth) creations...without any need to be categorised!!

The bible teaches me assisted by the Holy Spirit and the bible is the irrefutable word of God, and it has not held me back in the slightest it has raised me up out of the muck and mire and prospered me in ways I could never have imagined in my wildest dreams.
Well, I've had an entirely different experience...should I deny, the Holy Bible and the Holy Spirit...? Well, thats what you've been doing all this time...!?

Hmm, it might have kept you out of the muck & mire, but you're certainly still quite "blinkered"...I'm sad to say...!!

Only because your ideas are nebulous to me IE Nebulous
1. hazy, vague, indistinct, or confused: a nebulous recollection of the meeting; a nebulous distinction between pride and conceit.
2. cloudy or cloudlike.
Again you're trying to equate Truth to mere words...even the entire dictionaries of the World could never represent Spirit Truth...it's only a book with words...as you often say...isn't it? :D

I find this statement interesting in a number of ways because I can be taken in a number of ways. A) that you are being patronizing condescending and view me as un-awakened individual B) that you are making a genuine attempt to awaken me.

I’ll go with b) for now. However let me assure you, I believe myself to be equally if not more awakened as you believe yourself to be.

You owe me nothing & I owe you nothing - thats a Truth ...thus there is no need/cause for me to be partronising towards you...!!

However, I appreciate the fact, you've chosen (B)...co's it tells me, you're genuinely attempting to "awaken" beyond the Physical realms limitations/restrictions...!! http://www.davidicke.com/forum/images/icons/icon14.gif

WHAT? Don’t go whack job on me now fella, and top yourself or anything daft!!
...daft indeed!! :D Spirit (Truth) is infinite...whether in this or the SPirit realm...!!

Unless two are agreed, unfortunately they can not walk together. Yes undoubtedly we can walk together live in harmony together enjoy each others company live peaceably together, and may that be the case, however our application of the beautiful TRUTH, appears to be somewhat diametrically opposed at this present juncture.
Thats your free-will...my Spirit (Truth) is one with your Spirit (Truth) energy, whether you choose to know it or not...!!

Truth is truth as you rightly say, however there can be, and are, major struggles when conflicting views of what absolute truth is.
Thats if your observations is focussed only at the Physical (Truth) level (frequency)...choose to observe it at the Spirit (Truth) level (frequency), then it all becomes clear...where's there's Truth (GOD), there is no struggle...!!

The spirit is internal as is the heart as is the mind and these elements are bombarded constantly from the physical.
No, the Spirit is NOT limited by Physical realm conditions/states...it is Infinite!!

The "heart and mind" are physical realm Truth's...at least the heart knows more Truth than the mind...why? co's it does exactly what it is meant to do...in other words, theres a very good Truth relationship going between the Heart and (Spirit) Truth!! As for the mind, however...hmm, who knows? :D

Rubbish, I am free my good man, I am free. I have no fear of what any man may do to me. The Spirit of the living God resides within me. Halleluiah! What a saviour!
If a man knows Spirit Truth and for some (unfortunate) reason finds himself imprisoned...at the rate you're going, such a man will know more "freedom" than you will over know...unfortunately!!

Good Luck to you mate...!!

miracles

01-05-2009, 12:15 PM

No worries mate...!!

Forget the hammer...I've given you the toolbox...the masonry...the archetectural plans...and the foundation...!!

Hmm, lemme know, when you'd like me to start building...!? :D

"Awakened" means, the Physical being truly awakening to our Spirit (Truth), the part of us that is permenently connected to GOD (Truth)...and it's relationship with everything else that EXIST/IS...ie, Truth!! ...in this Physical realm and the Spirit realm.

Not, the kind of "awakening" that is insisted upon us, through fear, by our religious leaders/teachers...!?

Indeed, a "bolt of lightning can mean all manner of things"...but, if one considers what I was going through at the time...that to me, anyway, represented GOD's way of letting me know..."how dare I question GOD's Power/Truth?" And as I said, everything about my life, simply became more and more clear, after that...!!

Anyway, it's up to you, what all manner of things would represent for your understanding... Perhaps, that is the reason I know Truth and you're still "seeking it"...!?

Well, if you're not denying it...then why do you still require a "hammer"...!?

And, if you think there is "no Truth in it"...then, you're also justifying the "un-truth" that the "born-again/re-born" Christian idea is all about...!? :confused:

And in that case, it is you who's doing all the "utter nonesense" talking...

Mate, besides the fact you will cease to exist without the Holy Bible...it seems to me, you've compartmentalised all your (mind's) knowledge, re, your Physical being, Spiritual being, it's relationship with the Universe and of-course, with GOD...!? And now, seem to struggle connecting the dots...ie, connecting all the different compartments...!?

Hmm, the "pyramid" (inside your mind) is crumbling my friend...!!

Mate, neither you nor I (or anyone past, Now or future) will ever know exactly what happens to the Spirit (Truth) during meditation...so whatever you're trying to give us, is indeed, utter nonesense...what the Physical realm knows of the Spirit realm, does not even represent a fraction of what there IS about the Spirit realm...!!

Engaging in mediation, means, one's awakening is at an advanced stage...would you start praying, if you didn't know the Holy Bible...? Well then...!?

...and, if you could merely observe the principle of your words, re "GOD can never lie"...then you would immediately know Truth (GOD)...!!

No! That is what your life's teachers have taught you to believe...and the reason it makes "sense" to you, is because you're using the "imposter (negative) energy" to dis-credit the Spirit (Truth), that, with which you have been born with...!!

Also, to me anyway, a clear indication of just how far-away from Truth, you are...

The entire Spirit (Truth) is made up of, exclusively GOD (Truth) energy...so how could the same energy yield to itself...eh!? :confused:

Truth begets Truth...!! Righteousness, imho, besides being an attempt (by tptb) to limit GOD (Truth), is rendered useless by Truth energy...!!

Again, the entire Spirit (Truth) is made up GOD (Truth energy), which we refer to as the Holy Spirit or Spirit of GOD, ...so, how does one differentiate between the "2" energy's...it can't be done, it's impossible...not in this realm it can't be done, anyway...!!

Of-course, "man's Spirit is inherently holy from birth"...!! Otherwise, are you saying GOD (Truth) is a failure...!? If you asked me, GOD probably knew there'd be people who said "His/Her" creation was flawed...however, if one considers the Spirit (Truth), it is perfect...!! The Physical being might be "flawed"...but the Spirit...!? No-way...Jose!!

Mate, the "oneness" connection between Spirit (Truth energy) and GOD (Truth energy) is Infinite...!!

Hmm, typical Cognative Dissonance...!! :D ...it seems, you know very little about your Spirit (Truth)...unfortunately...perhaps it's not your time to know it yet...!? You sure, you not having any sleepless nights, denying your Spirit (Truth) like this...!? :D

You're quite fond of word analysis, aren't you? ...interesting that the word, "Salvation" seemed to have escaped such "treatment"...?

Again, "salvation" is a Physical realm reality...meaning, could only have come from mankind's understanding...otherwise, if it were from GOD, it would mean, the principles of Truth have been breached...and as you already have agreed, GOD cannot lie...!! ;) ...need anymore proof/evidence...!?

As I've chosen to follow my Spirit (Truth), I am Truth being...!!

Our only purpose is to be Truth, the Spirit already IS...now, if only the Physical being would awaken to it's Truth, then it can be said, we're One with the Whole...!!

Christianity, btw, was chosen for you by your ancestry...not GOD!! Step out of your box and witness for yourself, all of GOD's wonderful (Truth) creations...without any need to be categorised!!

Well, I've had an entirely different experience...should I deny, the Holy Bible and the Holy Spirit...? Well, thats what you've been doing all this time...!?

Hmm, it might have kept you out of the muck & mire, but you're certainly still quite "blinkered"...I'm sad to say...!!

Again you're trying to equate Truth to mere words...even the entire dictionaries of the World could never represent Spirit Truth...it's only a book with words...as you often say...isn't it? :D

You owe me nothing & I owe you nothing - thats a Truth ...thus there is no need/cause for me to be partronising towards you...!!

However, I appreciate the fact, you've chosen (B)...co's it tells me, you're genuinely attempting to "awaken" beyond the Physical realms limitations/restrictions...!! http://www.davidicke.com/forum/images/icons/icon14.gif

...daft indeed!! :D Spirit (Truth) is infinite...whether in this or the SPirit realm...!!

Thats your free-will...my Spirit (Truth) is one with your Spirit (Truth) energy, whether you choose to know it or not...!!

Thats if your observations is focussed only at the Physical (Truth) level (frequency)...choose to observe it at the Spirit (Truth) level (frequency), then it all becomes clear...where's there's Truth (GOD), there is no struggle...!!

No, the Spirit is NOT limited by Physical realm conditions/states...it is Infinite!!

The "heart and mind" are physical realm Truth's...at least the heart knows more Truth than the mind...why? co's it does exactly what it is meant to do...in other words, theres a very good Truth relationship going between the Heart and (Spirit) Truth!! As for the mind, however...hmm, who knows? :D

If a man knows Spirit Truth and for some (unfortunate) reason finds himself imprisoned...at the rate you're going, such a man will know more "freedom" than you will over know...unfortunately!!

Good Luck to you mate...!!
Im off to sleep like a baby ( I wake up every two hours screaming for food). Lol.

No problems sleeping here matey potatey. No Cognitive disintry either. I note you have twisted many of the things Ive said and spun it like a true disinf merchant. As a result I wont pursue the discussion further. Suffice it to say, your truth, is not my truth. And I find it incredibly presumptious of you, out of order in fact, for you to use the word truth the way you use it. Your plagurisig a word and twisting it to mean something that it doesnt mean, which sadly, makes it a lie.

Good luck to you too mate, your gonna need it.

tusme

01-05-2009, 01:16 PM

Im off to sleep like a baby ( I wake up every two hours screaming for food). Lol.

Good luck to you too mate, your gonna need it.
:D...well, you have a restful sleep, mate...!!

No problems sleeping here matey potatey. No Cognitive disintry either. I note you have twisted many of the things Ive said and spun it like a true disinf merchant.
Truth cannot be spun...it's "been around the block too many times"...certainly more times than you or I have...!!

You've asked for a "hammer"...I gave you everything, apart from the "completed bulding"...yet now, I'm the disinf merchant...!? :confused:

Tbh with you Miracles, I'm not sure you will ever know Truth...!? I mean, you're finding it hard even to grasp it's principles...!?

As a result I wont pursue the discussion further.
Well, that's a pity...all this wasted energy...!! :D

Suffice it to say, your truth, is not my truth.
Well, it's not the first time you've said it...btw, our Spirit (Truth), is made of the same energy...and also, it has "no beginning/ending"...thus, neither you nor I have a choice in the matter...from that perspective, we (including you & I) are One with the Whole...!!

And I find it incredibly presumptious of you, out of order in fact, for you to use the word truth the way you use it. Your plagurisig a word and twisting it to mean something that it doesnt mean, which sadly, makes it a lie.
Hmm, I rest my case...!! ;) :D

Take it easy mate...!!

miracles

01-05-2009, 01:46 PM

:D...well, you have a restful sleep, mate...!!

Truth cannot be spun...it's "been around the block too many times"...certainly more times than you or I have...!!

You've asked for a "hammer"...I gave you everything, apart from the "completed bulding"...yet now, I'm the disinf merchant...!? :confused:

Tbh with you Miracles, I'm not sure you will ever know Truth...!? I mean, you're finding it hard even to grasp it's principles...!?

Well, that's a pity...all this wasted energy...!! :D

Well, it's not the first time you've said it...btw, our Spirit (Truth), is made of the same energy...and also, it has "no beginning/ending"...thus, neither you nor I have a choice in the matter...from that perspective, we (including you & I) are One with the Whole...!!

Hmm, I rest my case...!! ;) :D

Take it easy mate...!!

you too mate. When I'm lookin to build a house of cards, I'll give you a bell. :D

phildee3

01-05-2009, 01:55 PM

When I'm lookin to build a house of cards, I'll give you a bell. :D

What, another one??

miracles

01-05-2009, 01:59 PM

What, another one??

Yeah, I'll give you a call to help me too. Your great at it. The best I've seen :D

phildee3

01-05-2009, 02:16 PM

Saw it - wanted it- threw a tantrum - got it!

miracles' signature -
derision of one of the Master's most important instructions:
thou shalt not covet!

Say's it all, doesnt it?

miracles

01-05-2009, 02:33 PM

miracles' signature -
derision of one of the Master's most important instructions:
thou shalt not covet!

Say's it all, doesnt it?

Yeah, that I have a sense of Humor.

How many points do you get for that one Phildee?

he who is without sin cast the first stone - I think the master may have said that one too, or have I got the meaning of that wrong and out of context becuase it was really yah -hudi -men- uin the famous master violinist that said it and not THE master. Anyway the master YAHWEH carved the ten comandments. Whom you evidently dont rate very highly. Or was it Elohiem, or YHV, I forget. Who is your master by the way?

Im giving myself the maximum ten points for that one!. Plus 50, yes 50 bonus points, which takes my score to 311987766 and yours to umm 9.

tusme

01-05-2009, 02:38 PM

you too mate. When I'm lookin to build a house of cards, I'll give you a bell. :D
Hmm, now why do I think you're telling the Truth, there...!? :D

miracles

01-05-2009, 02:55 PM

Hmm, now why do I think you're telling the Truth, there...!? :D

May be your spirit truth being is in telepathic communion with my spirit truth being whilst simultaneously at the same time connecting with the great whole in the ozone layer? :D

tusme

01-05-2009, 02:58 PM

May be your spirit truth being is in telepathic communion with my spirit truth being connecting with the great whole in the ozone layer? :D
Well, now, you're certainly NOT...telling the Truth!! :D

amethyst

01-05-2009, 06:37 PM

Originally Posted by amethyst:

"If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him!" (Luke 11:13)

QUOTE=phildee3:
"Well done!
You have found one scripture that supports your position.
(the ones from Acts and Corinthians, in this sme post, do not).
However much this flies in the face of a whole soup of information to the contrary, it needs to be dealt with.
Is it a mistranslation?
I don't think so.
More likely to have been added at some point.
I'll look into it.
The whole of the first two thirds (approx.) of this chapter seems suspect - quite foreign.

Please post any other scriptures that are as clear as this one to support your position.
It will help me test my null hypothesis.

Phildee,

For some reason, you seem to want to overlook (ignore?) those scriptures that don't "fit' with what you believe.

There's plenty other scriptures that talk about the gift of the Holy Spirit, and also individual's being given the Holy Spirit.

Acts 10:44:"While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word.

Acts 10:45: And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also."

Acts 11:15: "And as I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell upon them, as upon us at the beginning.

Act 11:16: Then I remembered the word of the Lord, how He said, 'John indeed baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit.'

Act 11:17: If therefore God gave them the same gift as He gave us when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could withstand God?"

Act 15:8: "So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us"

Act 19:2: "he said to them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" So they said to him, "We have not so much as heard whether there is a Holy Spirit."

Act 19:3: And he said to them, "Into what then were you baptized?" So they said, "Into John's baptism."

Act 19:4: Then Paul said, "John indeed baptized with a baptism of repentance, saying to the people that they should believe on Him who would come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus."

Act 19:5: When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Act 19:6: And when Paul had laid hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke with tongues and prophesied."

Phildee,

Normally, a gift is something that is given no?

So you see, the Holy Spirit is a gift for all who will recieve Him.

According to scripture, it's not just for a special few, but for everyone who believes.

Why make it so exclusive?