Forcing spiritual renunciation

[chris]

Is it okay to force spiritual renunciation upon a people?

Let's say a guy wants to make money, wear well made clothes, drive a nice car and live in a nice home. According to a lot of people on this forum, this man is evil.

"For the good of the collective and for his own spiritual wellbeing, force that man to renunciate his justly aquired riches and if he doesn't want to, steal them and put him in a concrete cubical with metalic bars and no daylight. We are so spiritual and evolved we can judge what's best for him and the collective. Let him learn that money is not everything."

Personally I do not think this will create a society that is very spiritual. Nor do I think it will do much for that man who is forced out of his material life.

A better chance for this man to be free to learn from his own errors and mistakes to start to realise that materialism is not everything.

[bowtiedaddy]

Is it okay to force spiritual renunciation upon a people?

Let's say a guy wants to make money, wear well made clothes, drive a nice car and live in a nice home. According to a lot of people on this forum, this man is evil.



Personally I do not think this will create a society that is very spiritual. Nor do I think it will do much for that man who is forced out of his material life.

A better chance for this man to be free to learn from his own errors and mistakes to start to realise that materialism is not everything.

First off, I'm not naturally a money obsessed person. I'd much rather live a life worth willing than even make a cent, if it were possible to do so.

With that said: What's wrong with wanting to do any of that? I wouldn't mind living in a great house with lots of antiques around, and drive an awesome car. I would never do it at the expense of other people, or via deceit... but if someone wants to earn that sort of lifestyle, what's wrong with that?

Screw the collectavist idiots milling around here. They're either very misguided, or cointelpro.

The only answer to fulfilment is for the norm to be... individual liberty for every human. In a system such as that, anyone wanting to live in a collectivist society, can form their own, and more power to them. Everyone should have the freedom to live their life as they wish, as long as they don't violate the common law). You cannot force collectivly anything that will benefit humanity, because there is no one answer for the whole of "the herd". The best system is to allow for maximum individuality, while keeping basic order, and making sure corruption doesn't reign.

[hellosatellites]

When we have gotten used to *stuff* it sometimes takes losing that stuff to realise that *stuff* is not what we are all about.
A positive side effect of the financial crisis is that a lot of people have not only spend less, they have also realised they can easily live without most of the material exccesses that we have come to take for granted. And more importantly people have started to questoion what is of real worth, before they fork out money. People are beginning to actually THINK and evaluating before mindlessly buying...a good thing, imo.

Other than that, i don't think genuine spiritual insight can be forced :)

[arty2000]

1 rule to live by my friends,allow yourself to do what it is you want to do and allow others to do the same as long as you do not impose your will on anyone ...we are all bros and sisters.....all negativity stems from fear and fear is simply the absence of truth.....see the truth ,love and humor in all things,it is ego perception that is the source of all misery....just be my friends....trust in the universe and that be all folks ...have a joyous and beautiful day.

[creamspyder]

The love of money, is the root of 'all evil'?

[michael christopher]

No one should be forced to do anything, except for people who are violent - they should be kept away from everyone else.

[hellosatellites]

No one should be forced to do anything, except for people who are violent - they should be kept away from everyone else.

Short and sweet :)

Well said

[pepsirat]

I agree with most of this. But i think its good to incurage people to do the right thing with out judgement.

P.S. sorry if my spellings realy bad.


Is it okay to force spiritual renunciation upon a people?

Let's say a guy wants to make money, wear well made clothes, drive a nice car and live in a nice home. According to a lot of people on this forum, this man is evil.



Personally I do not think this will create a society that is very spiritual. Nor do I think it will do much for that man who is forced out of his material life.

A better chance for this man to be free to learn from his own errors and mistakes to start to realise that materialism is not everything.

[zero1]

Is it okay to force spiritual renunciation upon a people?

Let's say a guy wants to make money, wear well made clothes, drive a nice car and live in a nice home. According to a lot of people on this forum, this man is evil.

"For the good of the collective and for his own spiritual wellbeing, force that man to renunciate his justly aquired riches and if he doesn't want to, steal them and put him in a concrete cubical with metalic bars and no daylight. We are so spiritual and evolved we can judge what's best for him and the collective. Let him learn that money is not everything."


Personally I do not think this will create a society that is very spiritual. Nor do I think it will do much for that man who is forced out of his material life.

A better chance for this man to be free to learn from his own errors and mistakes to start to realise that materialism is not everything.

To whom is the emboldened quote to be attributed? Sounds like a hard-core Communist for real.

[romas]

No one should be forced to do anything, except for people who are violent - they should be kept away from everyone else.



And here we are all put on earth and kept away from the rest of non violent universe ;)

In all seriousness best teacher is experience though. The only thing you can teach people by putting them in a cage is just that - how it feels to be put away and imprisoned.

[michael christopher]

And here we are all put on earth and kept away from the rest of non violent universe ;)

In all seriousness best teacher is experience though. The only thing you can teach people by putting them in a cage is just that - how it feels to be put away and imprisoned.

And that is the answer to the famous questions "What is the meaning of life and why is there suffering?"

[watson_k]

And that is the answer to the famous questions "What is the meaning of life and why is there suffering?"

You can answer that. What is the root of suffering?

Look at your world now, isn't suffering unless naturally afflicted, caused by other humans out of disregard for their fellow human brothers and sisters.

What makes it worse is even if it was naturally afflicted, very few deep in their hearts really give a damn if it's not happening to themselves. (Physically I mean)

So, from this stand point seeing as 'suffering' apparently comes from ourselves out of utter disregard for our fellow human beings, what can be done to alleviate the problem? - You could perhaps start there for what is the meaning of life.

[michael christopher]

You can answer that. What is the root of suffering?

Look at your world now, isn't suffering unless naturally afflicted, caused by other humans out of disregard for their fellow human brothers and sisters.

What makes it worse is even if it was naturally afflicted, very few deep in their hearts really give a damn if it's not happening to themselves. (Physically I mean)

So, from this stand point seeing as 'suffering' apparently comes from ourselves out of utter disregard for our fellow human beings, what can be done to alleviate the problem? - You could perhaps start there for what is the meaning of life.

Suffering is the result of the interaction of individuals. There are two interactions necessary to cause suffering:

1) The intent to dominate
2) The intent to be dominated

It takes the will of both oppressor and oppressed to create suffering.

That might sound cold/cruel to some, but it is entirely true. If we didn't fear death or pain, we wouldn't worry about others trying to dominate us because it would never happen. We would simply stand up and take what was ours. Fear is precisely what allows for suffering, and it takes consent to fear something.