On Capitalist Jesus. The Evil of Christianity.

[luciferhorus]

On a Justification for Armed revolution. On a Theology of Liberation. On the Revolutionary Jesus. An Anarchist perspective

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By Lucifer
Day of Judgement 2008
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Fire, plague and poisoned waters.

_____________________

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A Christian is allegedly a 'Christ-like' person who looks to the Jesus of history as a mentor and who claims to believe in his teachings as ‘the word of God.’

‘And every one that hears these sayings of mine, and does them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, who built his house upon the sand’ (Mt. 7)


Consider that the historical Jesus appears to have been a person who fits the following description.

Tenets of the Historical Jesus.

1: Anti-Monetarism / Anti-Capitalism

He did not believe in any form of monetarism (do not carry money.... do not receive money, only food); he was a homeless (he had nowhere to lay his head), unemployed ( he called upon those with him to give up their professions), anti-propertyist who propagated not monetarism but proto-Communism (Fr. Communare: to share. Communism: to share all property in common)
.
‘Carry neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses, neither two robes, neither shoes, nor yet a staff. Mt 10’

It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.- Matthew 19:24


And the question needs to raised as to how a person who carries no money could pay taxes; one of the alleged reasons for his arrest.


Then the whole assembly rose and led him off to Pilate. And they began to accuse him, saying, “We have found this man subverting our nation. He opposes payment of taxes to Caesar and claims to be a king.” (Luke 23:1-4)

Do not worship mammon (Aramaic: Material possessions / clothing / money). Consider Solomon in all his glory?

Lay not up for yourself treasures upon the earth...
- Matthew 6:19

2: No Swearing of Oaths.

..and of course without the swearing of oaths and contracts, Capitalism would cease to exist, and ‘I pledge allegiance to the flag…’ would be a violation of the words and edicts of Jesus, as would American Presidents swearing on stacks of Bibles, and Christians swearing oaths in courts or military oaths to fight the enemies of Capitalism.

But I say unto you, swear not at all; neither by heaven... nor by
earth.- Matthew 5:34-35



3: He cried out against the rich and the religious hypocrites.

Woe to you brood of vipers… hypocrites…serpents.. in the name of the prophets you would have stoned the prophets, etc., etc.
Today it is the Christian state terrorists who have a long history of torturing and murdering Communists, particularly in the post war history of Latin America with their Palace revolutions and miltary coups.


4: He did not sell salvation for Capitalist coin.

He did not ask for tithes or offerings; he fed the poor and freely cared for the sick.

5: He told the rich to devote their wealth to the poor.

Sell all that you have and give to the poor... Luke 12:33

6: No Priesthood.

He was clearly ‘against' the priesthood of his age, and indeed against any form of priesthood.


‘Be not called Rabbi (teacher)… and call no man your father upon the earth…neither be called masters……and whoever exalts himself shall be abased. (Mt.38)’

7: Anti-Capitalist Martyrdom and Rebellion

This is the true meaning of 'take up your cross;' this was a common punishment for anti-Roman terrorists.

He was tortured and executed for his rebellion against the religious establishment, at their request, and allegedly as a political criminal; he did not support the corrupt government and the Solomonic priesthood (the Sadducees).

8: Non-Idolatry

He was not an idolater, he never referred to himself as the Creator; he may have invoked the Messianic prophecies but he clearly was not so arrogant as to consider himself to be the Creator; indeed he cried out to the Creator at times and referred constantly to the Creator in the Third person. Christians today worship him as an object of idolatry and propagate the Captialist anti-thesis of his teachings.

9: No Public Praying. No Praying in Temples.

He told his followers, 'Do not pray in public in the streets and the Temples.'


And when you pray, you must not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the temples and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. I say to you, they have their reward. But you, when thou pray, enter into your room, and when you have shut the door, pray in secret; and your God which hears in secret shall answer you. And when you pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. (Mt. 6)

In other words, a true Christ-like person would never pray in public or in a church, nor would they construct any form of Temple.

10: The revolutionary militant (terrorist) Jesus: Armed Revolution.

"Do not suppose that I come to bring peace to the earth: I
did not come to bring peace but a sword..........I have come to cast fire onto the earth; would that it be already kindled"


Consider that at one point he asks his followers to sell their robes if they have to and buy swords. There are two interpretations of the answer, one being 'we have two swords,' and another being 'we have two swords each.' The Judean siccari (Swordsmen or 'terrorists’ to the Romans) commonly carried two swords, as opposed to the sword and shield of the Romans.

'Cohort' (L. a tenth of a Legion).

It clearly states that a cohort (L. a 10th of a legion) of Romans arrested Jesus. A legion was a minimum of 5000 men plus cavalry. Thus a minimum of 500 armed soldiers (plus the Temple guard, who were also armed) arrested Jesus in Gethsemane where an armed fight broke out; outnumbered his followers fled. This begs the question of why 500 armed soldiers would attempt to arrest a group of unarmed pacifists. It simply does not make sense.

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Now compare this man to modern day Christians in general. Are they really Christ-like? Do they really believe in all of the above?

Indeed today it is only the Communists who represent his legacy; the Christian Capitalists represent all that he despised.

Two types of Christians; the hypnotists of the 'Jesus Business' and the hypnotised innocents.

I do not believe that the hypnotists of the Jesus business who claim to be 'experts' on the sayings of Jesus can possibly justify their business by the teachings of Jesus. I consider them to be universally corrupt and pied pipers; those who have vested interests in 'Capital' and earn a living from the Jesus business cannot be expected to agree with the tenets above. If they are offended; so too it must be stated that they ‘give offence’ to the students of the historical Jesus and to all liberation theologians and Christian Anarchists.

Consider also that the two major state terrorist countries in the world have Christian heads of state (Obama and Elizabeth Windsor) and that they are totally committed to militant world Capitalist revolution, the holocaust of all militant enemies and the economic enslavement of humanity.

The hypnotised innocents; the proletariat.

Clearly many Christians are simply hypnotised, and it is they who need to be woken up; that simply requires education.


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Above: State terrorist collaborator, evangelical Capitalist and religious hypocrite, Pat Robertson'


Shame on Christendom

Though the teachings of Jesus are clearly offensive to the Christian Capitalists, it is quite fair to judge the Christians by the teachings of the person whom they claim to represent. If they do not wish to be so judged, they should not claim to represent Jesus; it would be more honest if they sold their slavation for coin in the name of Adam Smith, Ayn Rand or some other Capitalist .

Jesus was a very offensive person; he ranted and raged at the injustices of his society and cried out 'Woe to you hypocrites,' to the proponents of organised religion and Capital. If he had been diplomatic and had not given offence, it is unlikely that the priesthood would have placed a reward for his arrest. The prophets have always been very extreme and outspoken people

Today in the name of Jesus, all manner of religious hypocrisy is propagated in his name, Capitalist Revolution, the selling of salvation for coin, the construction of elaborate Temples while billions suffer in dire poverty, and 900 million people, mostly women and children are close to starvation.

Shame.

Woe to the Capitalist hypnotists of Christianity, in the name of the prophets they would have persecuted and rejected the prophets.

Great and terrible and dreadful and wrathful shall be the Day of Judgement.

They wheat shall be separated from the chaff (the Capitalists and the hypocrites of religion) and the chaff cast into the fire.

The Final Holocaust shall be worse than any other that has come before.

Lucifer

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For Anarchism. For Communism. Lux. For War, Revolution, anything good but strong.

For armed violent apocalyptic revolution in all the world on a day and an hour.

No mercy or quarter on they who deserve none.

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"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it."............" "Many will say to Me on that day, `Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' "And then I will declare to them, `I never knew you; depart from me you workers of iniquity.' "Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them, may be compared to a wise man who built his house on the rock. "And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and yet it did not fall, for it had been founded on the rock.

Matthew 7:13-27

[metacomet]

This thread speaks the truth.

Most sects in modern Christianity (especially Catholicism via the Vatican) are Satanist inventions.

They do a superb job of defying Christ and his original philosophy. I think idolizing Christ and glorifying his execution was the main point of propaganda. My own mother and many people who are good at heart have accepted this as valid.

Terribly ironic. Frighteningly.

Not to mention the fact that G.W. Bush was elected because he told Right-Wing America that he was Christian.

Meanwhile he is one of the most notorious Satanists this planet has ever seen. Don't get me started on the big O.

[luciferhorus]

They do a superb job of defying Christ and his original philosophy. I think idolizing Christ and glorifying his execution was the main point of propaganda. My own mother and many people who are good at heart have accepted this as valid.

Terribly ironic. Frighteningly.


Beyond the irony the frightening reality is that indoctrinated beliefs go deep into the subconsious and affect behaviour; a person encouraged by mass hypnotists (the priesthood) can then commit evil believing such evil to be good.

How to be Saved.

1: Take one Israelite anti-Capitalist.

2: Torture him him slowly by removing much of the skin from his body (Flaggelation).

3: Give him a slow painful public death to show others the penalty for such rebellion.

Excommunicate the saviours of the poor and the sick. Praise for the devils.

Recently the Catholic Church excommunicated two medical doctors in Latin America who gave an abortion to a young rape victim. Many Latin American Marxist preists have been excommunicated and threatened with excommunication; others have simply resigned.

Salvation for Pinochet.

Meanwhile in Chile, General Pinochet, a lifetime Christian still attends Mass in a Catholic Church. Pinochet was responsible for a CIA backed military coup against the elected pro-Cuban Socialist President of Chile, Salvador Allende. Pinochet's troops then rounded up 30,000 political Left activists; many of whom were raped and brutally tortured, 10,000 never to be seen again.

The mass torture, murder and rape of Communists is apparently not enough to get one excommunicated from the world's most powerful Christian church, but giving an abortion is.

Ritual Cannibalism

If it is not enough to glorify his death in the name of their demonic god; the Christian is persuaded to eat the flesh and drink the blood of the martyr.

Who else but devil would use a Communist to propagate anti-Communism;

Hypnosis for Slaves

Christianity is simply a form of mass hypnosis; it is the definition of what Nietzsche defined as 'slave morality.'

This mockery will go on until the last priest is buried with the last tyrant....

Any person who has respect for Jesus, would be an opponent of Christianity, organised religion, Capitalism and all forms of tyranny.

LL

Lux

A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything.
Friedrich Nietzsche

[metacomet]

Ritual Cannibalism

If it is not enough to glorify his death in the name of their demonic god; the Christian is persuaded to eat the flesh and drink the blood of the martyr.


Yes. This is the most blatant Satanic aspect that Christians have overlooked.

The glorious thing is (not that I would glorify Lucifer...)

Christ told us: Lucifer is under your nose. He will always be right under your nose. But Christians skip off to church convinced there is no Satan there. Then they ritualistically devour the body of their savior without a hint of irony.

Also:

Churches have the worst spiritual atmosphere at night. They are infested with lower dimensionals ... I feel the rituals allow this.

Also, the fact that people built physical buildings to pray in public is so backwards from Christ's own lessons that it cannot be anything other than Satanically inspired. More proof that Lucifer is, as Christ said: right under their noses.

[luciferhorus]

Christ told us: Lucifer is under your nose. He will always be right under your nose. But Christians skip off to church convinced there is no Satan there. Then they ritualistically devour the body of their savior without a hint of irony..............Also, the fact that people built physical buildings to pray in public is so backwards from Christ's own lessons that it cannot be anything other than Satanically inspired. More proof that Lucifer is, as Christ said: right under their noses.
.



I seem to be repeating myself on this forum regarding 'Lucifer (Bearer of Light, associated with Venus and the Sun)' and Satan (Bearer of Darkness, Set, Saturn).

On Lucifer and the Final Rebellion of the Angels.


Lucifer
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Morning Star.
Aeon of Light 2009
For World Communist Revolution and the 1000 Year Agricultural Revolution.
The Final Revolutionary War of Economic Salvation and the non-miracle of the feeding of the 6 billion.


Set and Horus

The Hebrew Satan is most probably derived from the Egyptian god of the night and of the 'dark', 'Set.'

Set in the Egyptian faith was the enemy of the god of Light and Star of the Day, the Sun, referred to as Horus.

Vulgar

The term Lucifer does not appear anywhere in the Biblical texts; it only appeared with Jerome's Latin translation (the Vulgate; the Roman 'vulgar' as opposed to the original Hebrew and Greek).

Venus, goddess of Love; enemy of the paternalistic Christian god

Venus represents feminine strength, beauty, sexuality, motherhood and security; her planetary symbol is rightly and correctly widely used by international feminist groups and also by Lesbians.

Since the Biblical god is a racist, homophobic, misogynistic (female/feminist hating), genocidal, proto-fascist god, it is only right that the devotees of the Biblical god identify the archetypal Venus as their adversary. It is the Christian god who represents Saturn and the 'sin of restriction' and Venus who represents Love and Light.

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Son of the Morning.

Jesus was most likely speaking in the local dialect of Aramaic entwined with words from the Hebrew. It is unlikely that he would ever have used the name 'Lucifer' since Lucifer was a Roman deity, associated with Venus, the planet of love, the Star of the Morning, the Day Star, etc., a planet so bright that it was referred to as a star.

Animism, the Divine Hermaphrodite and Saturn

As with the Greek, Hindu and the gods and planetary deities of so many other cultures, all Roman male deities had female counterparts. Venus (Aphrodite to the Greeks) had a lover who was Lucifer.

In many animist cultures they worshipped the Sun as the most benevolent planet. All astrologers are animists who like myself believe that all matter has within itself a spiritual essence; in astrology Saturn (or Satan's planet) is the most malevolent planet; it is the planet of restriction; Saturn is often depicted as the Grim Reaper with a scythe and the planet of death.

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Dii Consentes

The Roman Pantheon contained 12 major gods. These were Jupiter, Juno, Minerva, Vesta, Ceres, Diana, Venus, Mars, Mercurius, Neptunus, Volcanus, and Apollo. 6 were male and 6 were female. Apollo was the Sun god.

Lucifer (Venus' lover, or 'male other half') was a relatively minor deity; a god of love; protector of Venus.

The Syncretism of the Languages of the Mediterranean

If the Israelites were familiar with Roman deities, they would probably have been mostly aware of Apollo, the major deity and the Sun god, and perhaps also 'Mars' the major god of the Roman army and certainly Saturn, god of death, suffering and restriction.

Saturn in the Latin and Satan in the Hebrew are similar names which are likely to have had common origins in the Egyptian Pantheon.

The Romans were very familiar with Egyptian culture and at times were either trading with the Egyptians or were the total masters of Egypt.

The Israelites whose language is allegedly the language of Egyptian slaves also contains Egyptian words and roots of words.

The planetary and deity association with the Hebrew Satan is thus clearly the Roman Saturn, not Venus. All else is myth and confusion.

The Myth of the Angelic Rebellion

The Christian myth of the rebellion of Lucifer and the angels may just be a myth, but one that I seek in part to evoke (call upon) and invoke (bring to life; personify) none the less. Angels do not rebel against Love but against all evil. Demons submit to evil and rebel against love. An Angel is a guide, a protector of humanity; the god of the Christian Capitalists is a worthless tyrannical slavemaster; rebellion against him is mandatory; death and hell awaits all who collaborate with him and his tyrants and priests.

Myth and the martyr Prometheus who stole fire from the gods to share it with humanity

The alleged sin of Prometheus, another archetypal Luciferian figure whom Christians so despise, was his love for humanity and his hatred of unjust gods.

Those who seek to enlighten and liberate humanity from bondage, always face the anger of the Archons, who prefer their slaves to be ignorant, submissive and in darkness; a slavemaster or a priest never wants 'rebellion,' and defines it as a cardinal sin; obedience to tyranny and the sin of restriction is what is required.

It is no surprise that the Christians consider Prometheus to be Saturn, for Christianity has for long represented ignorance, enslavement and global Capitalist imperialism.

Christian Capitalist imperialism has for long enslaved humanity economically.

God of the Slavemasters; God of Capital.

The Christians are the slavemasters; the 5 billion impoverished proletariat of the world are their economic slaves who make their clothes, grow their food, fill their shopping malls with the abundance of mammon, while the dictators of the Third World diminish their nation's resources to service debt to loan sharks of the richest nations (i.e., Christendom).

Of course the Christians do not want revolution; if their slaves rebelled, who would build fill their shopping malls with worthless trinkets? The Christians would no longer be able to have 100 pairs of shoes made by impoverished slaves in the Third World.

They who are poor now shall later have in abundance, and they who are rich now shall later be eradicated from the face of the earth and from under the earth.

Freemasons as Luciferians

Some may claim to be and others may say they are not; their language it matters not; the language of their lie is irrelevant; it is by their behaviour they shall be judged. They are vermin; they are the untermensche (morally worthless inferior creatures) who shall be cast out of the earth along with the Christians; Death and hell shall be their only reward.

Both the Masons and the Christians serve my father (the Devil); that is their true god irrespective of whatever name they give him; they have nothing to do with me; if they did they would be anti-Capitalists, anti-cultists and anti-statists; they would be Anarchist Communists; they would be the enemies of the Christians and Freemasons, but they are not; on the contrary they are not of me; it is they I seek to cast out of the earth.

Many shall claim to represent Lucifer and I shall say 'I do not know you; depart from me into the realms prepared for the Christians, the Freemasons and the rabble of the worthless god of Capital.'

Adversary

I was created by Love and Light; I am just a manifestation of love's true will.

I am involved in a magickal working to cast the Devils (Fr. De Ville; of the town or city) of Capitalism and Christianity out of the earth; they represent the malevolent side of Saturn (Death reversed) and the proponents of the sin of restriction and slavery as far as I am concerned and their Capitalist god is my adversary.

In the end Love and Light shall prevail over hatred, slavery and ignorance, and 'hatred, slavery and ignorance' is all that Christianity and masonry represent; and it matters not how many times they use the word 'love,' and light to hypnotise innocents in the belief that the god of Capital is the god of love and light. Language is the tool of mass hypnosis. Words are psychological weapons.

Rebellion

If the Christians think 'Lucifer' to be in rebellion against their Capitalist god, it is certainly so; the Christians give offence to all the gods and goddesses (ancestral sprits) of Heaven; their god is not the creator of love and I bear that devil no allegiance, only opposition; in time he shall be cast down, his temples shall turn to dust, his priesthood buried in the ashes of Armageddon, and the future children of the New Aeon beyond the forthcoming apocalyptic war shall remember him and those who revered him only with mockery and scorn .

The Christians are quite correct in thinking that they are the enemies of Lucifer, enemies of all Love and Light, and enemies of all the gods of heaven; but their father is the devil of Capitalism; they are the Satanists, slaves to the sin of restriction; death and hell shall be their only reward.

You who serve the fascist god of Christianity and Capital, be forewarned of the dreadful fate that awaits you for your spreading of hypocrisy, lies and ignorance; you have every reason to hate me; I care not for you but for your billions of slaves and the victims and the victims of your drug wars and oil wars. Long have I cried out against you and called to heaven and earth to rid this world of you; those are my demands; that is my sacred will; and my will shall in time be done.

Great and mighty and arrogant are the armies and tyrants of Christendom; their kingdoms shall fall; their waters poisoned, their fields barren, their cities desolate; they shall be despised upon the face of the earth and below the earth. They shall have uranium for breath and their children for food; all their evil shall come back on then 7 times 77

Woe to Christendom; you all enrage all the gods of Heaven; cry out to your devil of a Capitalist Christ and to his priests who offer you eternal salvation for the mockery of the living and the dead it; will do you no good.

The manifestation on earth of the angelic rebellion shall be your total eradication.

Long have I cried out to you in warning from the sky, as the lightening flashes from the east to the west, of the fate that awaits you.

Your Day of Judgement shall be great and wrathful and terrible and dreadful.

I am not for the masters who shall be cast out of the earth, but for the enslaved who shall inherit the earth.


LL

Lux
http://www.luciferia.tv/animation/A.gif
Light of the World

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[stewart edwards]

Luciferhorus

I would imagine that your posts have you flagged as a potential terrorist by some security agencies. Why because you do seem to me to be inciting terror. Surely that is a tool of darkness?


Anyhow a couple of points that you made interest me and I hope that you can expand upon themBoth the Masons and the Christians serve my father (the Devil);So your father is the Devil. Do you mean figuratively or literally?

it is they I seek to cast out of the earth.Are the you the fabled messiah that conspiracy theorists talk about?

I am involved in a magickal working to cast the Devils (Fr. De Ville; of the town or city) of Capitalism and Christianity out of the earth; How is that going?

[1977]

If you're going to keep posting this stuff, could you at least update your image macros to the current administration?

[luciferhorus]

Luciferhorus

I would imagine that your posts have you flagged as a potential terrorist by some security agencies. Why because you do seem to me to be inciting terror. Surely that is a tool of darkness??

I am well known to the intelligence services. I ran as an independent Communist parliamentary candidate in the Brixton / Lambeth area in 2001; that is where the Intelligence services H.Q. is. I blanketed the area around their H.Q on the South bank with 1000's of posters accusing them of state terrorism, narco-terrorism, etc; all the usual Communist propaganda; they would have to be blind not to notice me and my millions of Usenet and discussion posts on their favorite forums with their favorite Echelon keywords.

I have been on the Internet almost since it began and have littered the sky with propaganda to all peoples and nations, exposing them for years.

A particular American phoned the British miltary intelligence about me and posted the response on a Masonic debating forum a few years ago. I wish I'd kept a copy of it; he was told that they know me well and that they would have a problem prosecuting me, since I am essentially attacking state terrorism (I paraphrase) and that many of the facts I speak of regarding Anglo-US narco-terrorism and so forth are true; further Europe is full of millions of Communists.

I have had the police at my door and on my phone.

Essentiallty Europe is full of Communists who seek to incite revolution and live to create those conditions. Shall they arrest all of us?

Similarly the Internet is full of Capitalist activists and military personell on miltary forums who also inctie violence against the enemies of Capitalism; are they going to arrest them too?

And then there are the neo-Nazis in Europe and the police is full of them; are they going to arrest them also?

It goes on and on

And then there is the issue of political freedom, freedom of speech, freedom of the press. Do only Capitalists have the right to incite violence against the enemies of Capitalism? If the mass media uses freedom of the press to incite war against Islam, what about luciferia.tv?

This forum is also probably is under the observation of the state terrorists; they are the defintion of terrorism, and with them we know they have weapons of mass destruction and that they use them.

Then there are the Christians such as Billy Graham's son Franklin 'nuke Iraq' Graham and Pat 'kill Chavez' Robertson? Are they going to arrest the owners of Christian sattelite TV who broadcast such incitements to violence? I think not.

And on and on and on...

And then I have a very good Jewish lawyer who defends many of the anti-Capitalist political activists over here.

Their best bet is just to shoot me; fortunately I have a martyr complex and long ago overcame the fear of death.

Anyhow a couple of points that you made interest me and I hope that you can expand upon themSo your father is the Devil. Do you mean figuratively or literally?

My father is a Scottish Freemason who also supports the current Capitalist wars and revolutions. I commonly refer to him as my 'father the Devil;' his defintion of God is my definition of the Devil


Are the you the fabled messiah that conspiracy theorists talk about?

How is that going?

My ISP has banned me twice and I now use the same ISP as Hammas, but everything is going just fine, thank you very much.

It is a magickal working; an invocation. It has to do with the Holy Guardian Angel invocation and years of personal psychoactive abuse.

Inciting Armageddon against the Capitalists and their global holocaust is a tough job but someone has to do it.

Bear in Mind that the Masonic cultists who control the City of London over here also have their own Capitalist verion of the Messiah; their Grand Master of Masters; I am just his anti-thesis, the Great King of Terror; I am very much a creation and invocation of their own worst nightmares and myths.

Essentially I am merely the judge of the living and the dead; I won't be nuking anyone personally.

After me the deluge; the executioners of judgement shall be for obvious reasons an invisible hand; I am just the prophet of what is to come.

Read your Bible; the Capitalists get defeated in the end in apocalyptic war; the Bible is also a very violent piece of work with a nasty genocidal god which incites violence; but I don't think the British police are going to shut down the printing presses of the Church of England just yet.

LL

Lux

[thirdwave]

Luciferhorus

I would imagine that your posts have you flagged as a potential terrorist by some security agencies. Why because you do seem to me to be inciting terror. Surely that is a tool of darkness?

Was he?, I missed that bit, could you highlight it


Anyhow a couple of points that you made interest me and I hope that you can expand upon themSo your father is the Devil. Do you mean figuratively or literally?
For anyone to answer that, it might be needed to know what you think the "devil" is.. and who taught you about it.

[runciter]

the devil is the entity that spoke to abraham and moses.

[thirdwave]

the devil is the entity that spoke to abraham and moses.

I would not dream of asking you what it is!

LOL

[runciter]

I would not dream of asking you what it is!

LOL

the voice in your head that tells you "kill, kill, kill..."

schizophrenia, dissociative identity disorder, mpd, "possession".

[thirdwave]

the voice in your head that tells you "kill, kill, kill..."

schizophrenia, dissociative identity disorder, mpd, "possession".

Do you not think I already know that's what you think it is?, hence why I did not forward the question to you?

[runciter]

Do you not think I already know that's what you think it is?, hence why I did not forward the question to you?

the old testament is an ancient, long-term, genocidal mind control project.

[stewart edwards]

Luciferhorus

Thank you, your explanations have helped me understand your posts a bit better. Much appreciated.they would have to be blind not to notice me and my millions of Usenet and discussion posts on their favorite forums with their favorite Echelon keywords.I can understand that. Some years back someone was following me in cars, my phone clicked when I mentioned "ufo" {why ufo?}, I wondered why someone was spending time on me when I didnt really do much of anything, that I just started saying "ufo" on the phone etc just for the fun of it. I just got a bit annoyed when they could have come and talked to me. I mean if someone is going to visibly monitor you it is not exactly undercover secret stuff. I guess that they now just ask me on forums what I think. There must be a lot of people who do this sort of thing.


And then there is the issue of political freedom, freedom of speech, freedom of the press.This I support wholeheartedly. Clearly there has to be some boundaries for common decency etc, but free speech is vitally important to the health of a nation.

This forum is also probably is under the observationI agree which is why I find it comical that people think that they can hide behind screen names.



Their best bet is just to shoot me; fortunately I have a martyr complex and long ago overcame the fear of death.Do you think that you are able to choose your moment of death?


My father is a Scottish FreemasonI have Scots Freemasons in my family, and I know that I would say this, but they really are salt of the Earth types.

It is a magickal working; an invocation. It has to do with the Holy Guardian Angel invocation and years of personal psychoactive abuse.Sorry to hear of the abuse luciferhorus.

As you may have guessed I am not and have never been involved with any sort of ritual ceremonial magic, so I am coming at all of this from a different background to you, so please fogive my innocence here. But a lot of what you write, appears to me to be summonsing the power of darkness to fight darkness. Surely that is simply fuelling the fire? I have always found that touching hearts, and helping people see pathways to a better future, helping them over their ego obstacles and fears etc to be a better approach for balancing darkness and returning light. By way of background I do have some experience of Guardian Angels and imposters thereof.

Inciting Armageddon against the Capitalists and their global holocaust is a tough job but someone has to do it.To answer thirdwave this is the sort of post that I mean. Why does armageddon need to happen? Suyrely your magical knowledge tells you that our nature balance is extremely fragile just now and an armageddon scenario could easily reset this planet again. Unless that is what you are trying to achieve - the eradication of the human race paving the way for a new species to thrive?


Bear in Mind that the Masonic cultists who control the City of London over here also have their own Capitalist verion of the Messiah;Any idea who it is?

their Grand Master of Masters;That could turn out to be me you know.

I am just his anti-thesis, the Great King of Terror; I am very much a creation and invocation of their own worst nightmares and myths.Well if the above were me, I would sit down with you (and/or people like you) and try to understand your position and see if common solutions could be found, working from the basics upwards. When you get to the basics, a villager in remotest Africa has the same life issues as a multimillionaire, it is just the backdrop that differs. But when you can reach to the core, to the heart of the matter, we are all on the same journey. And it is at that core that planetary solutions come from.

Essentially I am merely the judge of the living and the dead;I was recently judged in the Hall of Judgement Luciferhorus, and I dont remember seeing you there. Why do you believe that you have this power?

I am just the prophet of what is to come.As someone who has been often called a false phrophet (mind you no one has said this for a few years now) by people who seemed to know me better than I knew myself and who seemed to fear me, (at a time when I didnt really know what a phrophet was), I can only imagine what life must be like for someone who actually calls themselve a phrophet. What sort of feedback do you get for this?

Read your Bible;I am, for the first time in decades. I am working through a Catholic study edition. Though the Gospel of Thomas is my favourite Gospel, and I am rather fond of what is known today as the Egyptian Book of the Dead.

You are a facinating character LuciferHorus.

[luciferhorus]

the voice in your head that tells you "kill, kill, kill..."

schizophrenia, dissociative identity disorder, mpd, "possession".

The Devil and the Pagans.

The languages of the Europeans are syncretic and numerous terms in English are often French, Latin Greek and even Hebrew .

The Devil is probably derived from the French De and Ville. 'De' is the French possessive and a Ville is a town or a City.

Cities have often been rather nasty places full of loan sharks and the 'townies' have often been considered the 'evil ones' and the seat of the economic masters by the townspeople; even here deep in the heart of the English countryside, when the farming types refer to the 'townie,' this is the French equivalent of a De Ville.

Even in the children's story of 101 Dalmation's the female demon is named Cruella DeVille (Cruel Devil or Cruel of the Town / City).

Generally countryside people (In the Latin, the Pagans) even today still believe that people in the towns and cities are the exploiters of their labour and the 'useless eaters' who sit in offices and profit from 'money-lending' and various other exploitative professions.

The origin of this view is perhaps also linked to the fact that many land owners would live in large houses in town, while the tenant farmers were poor, hardworking and lived on the land surrounding the towns.

Even Jesus did not speak the language of the townie elites (he slagged them off), but the language of the agriculturalists and the rural poor which was the mass majority of the people.

So now we have established who the devils are.

I think if we need to ask, does the god of the townspeople (i.e., the economic masters and their collaborators) actually exist, or is he merely the product of schizophrenia (From the Greek schizo: shattered and phrenic: mind)?

For example consider George 'God told me to invade Iraq' Bush's God. Were these merely voices in the head of a shattered mind, or does this demon actually exist?

Whatever conclusion a person reaches cannot be proven empirically since we are speaking of the subjective consciousness of George Bush.

Anthromorphism 101. Feurbachian projection.

It is clear that Bush's god is the god of the Capitalists, state terrorists, narco-terrorists; the god of the economic elites of Christendom. It does not follow that we are speaking of the Creator (i.e., the God of physics); She is anyway a militant black lesbian Communist anyway. What we are speaking of is the projection of Bush's mind. Obviously Bush would not worship a Communist god which seeks revolution against his father's kingdom.

Afterlife-ism.

Most of our ancestors believed in an ancestral realm; that upon death the soul passes over into an eternal realm of Light; this is what our pre-Christian European ancestors believed along with much of the rest of the world. Herein lies somewhere according to legend, the Grand Master of Hell.

Psychology (the study of the mind) and Psycho-babble.

Psycho-babble is a branch of linguistics and not a science; my cousin is a professional psychologist and having learned her new language, I am fully able to converse in this language; generally it involves learning many new words to describe the human mind; much of it is generalisations in not so secret academic language; however among the proponents of this new language are many who are like Freud are atheists, and others like Jung who have retained a belief in forms of demonic possession; however the Freudians seem to have the upper hand at the moment, and psycho-analysis is multi-billion dollar business. 60% of adult Americans allegedly suffer from depression (unhappiness in non psycho-babble) and the cure for unhappiness (often Valium) is also a multi billion dollar business which pays commissions on drugs prescribed by the proponents of psycho-babble.

It really depends upon what you believe as your metaphysical starting point which will determine whether or not Bush's God is a demon or merely the product of the shattered mind of a cocaine abuser and alcoholic whose father was once the head of the CIA; the world's leading proponents of torture, murder, narco-terrorism and Capitalist revolution at any cost .

Unfortunately neither the psycho-babble or spiritualist position can be proven or disproven.

Most of the kings and tyrants of human history have claimed to represent God or the gods, including our current head of state in the UK, Elizabeth Windsor. The mental hospitals are full of people who hear voices from god, but many non-believers also have shattered minds (in simple language they are fucked up in the head).



LL

Light.

[thelonious]

the devil is the entity that spoke to abraham and moses.

The devil is just Pan, God of Nature.

[luciferhorus]

Luciferhorus


To answer thirdwave this is the sort of post that I mean. Why does armageddon need to happen? Suyrely your magical knowledge tells you that our nature balance is extremely fragile just now and an armageddon scenario could easily reset this planet again. Unless that is what you are trying to achieve - the eradication of the human race paving the way for a new species to thrive?



Well Stuart, my apologies but I am too busy this morning with work to answer your response in full; however essentially the current destruction of the Mother Earth is not my doing; neither are the existence of 20,000 nuclear weapons.

Unfortunately the Capitalists are willing to use such weapons, they have used such weapons and are using such weapons to expand their Capitalist Revolutions.

As Guevara stated (I parphrase), "if we refuse to use the same weapons as our enemies, we shall be defeated before the revolution begins."

In the real Art of War, the weapons are generally chosen by the initiator of a duel.

If your enemy comes at you with a sword, you cannot fight him with a stick; if your enemy comes at you with a machine gun, you cannot fight him with a sword, and so forth.

Unfortunately the weapons of the Final War have already been chosen by the Christian State terrorists and the proponents of World Capitalist Revolution; the matter is out of my hands; it is not of my doing.

The Devils will not simply surrender, disarm and give up without a fight.

I did not start this war; the preparations for Final War began before I was born; I merely offer a Final Solution and an adequate military strategy for the defeat of the Christian State Terrorists (i.e., the Capitalists); the only other option that can be considered is submission and defeat, and that is not one I and many others like me who are the militant enemies of Capital are willing to consider.

The armies of Heaven and Hell gather for Final War; unfortunately rivers of blood shall flow; pacifism is no solution to this; my robes are already dipped in blood and I have long since chosen my 'side.'

If there were a peaceful solution to this I would welcome it, but unfortunately the Capitalists show no sign of surrendering, disarming and dimantling Capitalism in response to peaceful methods.

Later...


LL

Lux

[runciter]

The devil is just Pan, God of Nature.

pan doesn't exist, mental disfunctions are real.

[thirdwave]

pan doesn't exist, mental disfunctions are real.

but..eeerrr, they are down to the "devil" which eerrr does exists?

lol.

[runciter]

but..eeerrr, they are down to the "devil" which eerrr does exists?

lol.

it exists in people's minds.

[luciferhorus]

it exists in people's minds.

This will have to be my final response until later, but I can assure you that De Villes (townspeople) do objectively exist; I lived in cities for much of my life, just outside of New York for about 5 years and London for 18 years.

I can assure you that the Capitalist devils of Wall Street and the City of London 'do' have an objective existence which can be proven; I have known many such De Villes personally, and have at least a year of personal experience working with London's financial underground of macro-loan sharking and drug money laundering.

With regards to my father the Devil, he exists also and lives in St Andrews in Scotland.

These devils are all very real.

With regards to the Capitalist god of the Christian and Masonic Devils, the Grand Master of Hell, his metaphysical existence in the afterlife cannot be proven nor disproven objectively; his rule is exercised from the subjective realm so in this respect it is true that he exists only in people's minds and cannot be perceived with the 5 senses.

LL

Lux

[thelonious]

"The devil" is just Pan, God of the Fields and Forests.

The Christians, in their absurd fear of sex and death, have made a demon of him.

Their loss.

[luciferhorus]

"The devil" is just Pan, God of the Fields and Forests.

The Christians, in their absurd fear of sex and death, have made a demon of him.

Their loss.

How true.

Pan is awoken from history's grave and shall live forever, reborn in the flesh of the children of the New Aeon.

The disease of Christendom is on it's death throes and shall be purged.

Hymn of Pan

FROM the forests and highlands
We come, we come;
From the river-girt islands,
Where loud waves are dumb,
Listening to my sweet pipings.
The wind in the reeds and the rushes,
The bees on the bells of thyme,
The birds on the myrtle bushes,
The cicale above in the lime,
And the lizards below in the grass,
Were as silent as ever old Tmolus was,
Listening to my sweet pipings.

Liquid Peneus was flowing,
And all dark Tempe lay
In Pelion's shadow, outgrowing
The light of the dying day,
Speeded by my sweet pipings.
The Sileni and Sylvans and Fauns,
And the Nymphs of the woods and waves,
To the edge of the moist river-lawns,
And the brink of the dewy caves,
And all that did then attend and follow,
Were silent with love, as you now, Apollo,
With envy of my sweet pipings.

I sang of the dancing stars,
I sang of the dædal earth,
And of heaven, and the giant wars,
And love, and death, and birth.
And then I changed my pipings—
Singing how down the vale of Mænalus
I pursued a maiden, and clasp'd a reed:
Gods and men, we are all deluded thus!
It breaks in our bosom, and then we bleed.
All wept—as I think both ye now would,
If envy or age had not frozen your blood—
At the sorrow of my sweet pipings.

Percy Bysshe Shelley.

[runciter]

"The devil" is just Pan, God of the Fields and Forests.

The Christians, in their absurd fear of sex and death, have made a demon of him.

Their loss.

he was also the god of rape and demented violence, how convenient to omit this.

[thelonious]

he was also the god of rape and demented violence, how convenient to omit this.

This is untrue. Pan was god of the shepherds of Arcadia, and his name derived from the Greek word "paen", meaning "to pasture".

[runciter]

This is untrue. Pan was god of the shepherds of Arcadia, and his name derived from the Greek word "paen", meaning "to pasture".

i can hear the arcadian birds chirping in your head.

[thirdwave]

it exists in people's minds.

thelonious was correct.

[runciter]

thelonious was correct.

i think the cathars were correct.

[thirdwave]

he was also the god of rape and demented violence, how convenient to omit this.

no no, that's what Christians made of him... if you only want to look through a Christian perspective then why even bother with this discussion?

[runciter]

no no, that's what Christians made of him... if you only want to look through a Christian perspective then why even bother with this discussion?

through a human perspective.

[thirdwave]

through a human perspective.

good one!

[luciferhorus]

i think the cathars were correct.

Correct about what?

The Cathars were proto-Communists and therefore heretics to the Christian devotees of the 'one true faith' of the god of Capital.

Their 'dangerous Communist heresy' brought about their genocide at the hands of the Inquisition.

The Christian devils who tortured and murdered them were objectively real.

So too were the Christian state terrorist devils who have been torturing and murdering their way through the Communist population of Latin America since the end of WW2.

LL

Lux
http://www.luciferia.tv/animation/A.gif

[runciter]

good one!

thanks.

the half-beast god doesn't inspire much humanity.

how did he satisfy his sexual impulses? how was he able to induce panic terror?

[runciter]

Correct about what?


the identification of the old testament's god with "satan".

[thirdwave]

thanks.

the half-beast god doesn't inspire much humanity.

how did he satisfy his sexual impulses?
by fucking, rampant..

how was he able to induce panic terror?


by reminding Christians about fucking..

:)

[runciter]

consensual?

[1977]

Pan is the sensory World, with all of its deranged and deceitful appearances. But Cosmos is also the revealed Son of God.

[thirdwave]

consensual?

of course... he was a hansom fellow!..

have you got any records of him raping anything?... forward them on..

or..errr just talk some more crap.

[runciter]

of course... he was a hansom fellow!..

have you got any records of him raping anything?... forward them on..

or..errr just talk some more crap.

he was an ugly half-beast, he could only molest nymphs and handsome shepherds.

how ancient was greece's pederastic tradition?

[luciferhorus]

the identification of the old testament's god with "satan".


http://www.luciferia.tv/animation/bible-verses.gif

On the one hand Moses was allegedly a liberater of African slaves whose god despised the Egyptian slavemasters and their priesthood, executing all who were of their ilk among the army of liberated slaves; and yet on the other had the Old Testament god is certainly a paternalistic, misogynistic , genocidal, infanticidal, homophobic, proto-fascist, blood sacrifice cultist tyrant who propagated the sin of restriction (the 613 laws) and who was certainly a defintion of Saturn (restriction, death).

On one hand we have prophets crying out against the hypocrisy and evil of tyrants and priests; on the other hand we find a justification for tyranny and the priesthood of blood.

Frankly we are dealing with various anthromorphic projections of our ancient ancestors; this cannot be anything other than a confusion.

Fortunately I have come to humanity to clarify such issues and to explain the nature of the One True militant Black Jewish Lesbian Communist God.


LL

Lux
http://www.luciferia.tv/animation/A.gif

[thirdwave]

he was an ugly half-beast, he could only molest nymphs and handsome shepherds.

how ancient was greece's pederastic tradition?

how do you think he managed to become half goat?? lol ...

and was that before or after he was a serpent?? lol

[luciferhorus]

how ancient was greece's pederastic tradition?

Pederastry

Well runciter consider ancient Sparta.

This was a proto-Communist miltiary state with a dictator who was expected to fight alongside his soldiers in battle, which is almost almost unheard of in human history for a king; imagine those Christian cowards George Bush, Obama and the Windsor family actually risking their lives on the front line of their wars?

There was no question of peadophilia in Sparta; I think it would have been entirely unknown and considered an outrage, but having reached sexual maturity (puberty) all Spartan males were shipped off to the army where homosexuality was compulsory.

Only much later did they take a wife and bear children.

Sparta was a society where exclusive homosexuality and exclusive heterosexuality were simply not part of their culture. Love between men was simply considered normal, whereas in Christendom hatred, social chaos, internal violence and hompobia thrives; I am not surprised at all.

Personally I think this Spartan sexual politics to be a wonderful alternative to homophobic Christendom which is a culture of Capitalist selfishness whose tyrants and economic elites send others to fight on their behalf and where their hooligans just want to fight each other; not their true enemies.



Originally Posted by runciter

he was an ugly half-beast, he could only molest nymphs and handsome shepherds.




I love nymphs and handsome shephards, but I have never molested anyone; fortunately I have been created in the divine image and I tend to be the object of other's lust; that is why I don't need to hide my true identity here like many of the Christian half beasts do.

I cannot speak in defence of the Athenians, but with regards to what Athenian men would do to young boys, in a land much like modern Capitalism where everything was for sale, it was much like Christendom today and a paedophilic culture thrived, but bear in mind it is Athenian Capitalism which is revered today in Christendom, and Sparta which is reviled by the Christians and praised by the Communists; go figure.

Hail Sparta.

LL

Lux

[runciter]

There was no question of peadophilia in Sparta;


sure, if you say so.


all Spartan males were shipped off to the army where homosexuality was compulsory.


domination, like among dogs.


I love nymphs and handsome shephards, but I have never molested anyone;

you aren't an imaginary creature called pan.

[luciferhorus]

domination, like among dogs.



Well dogs are not the only creatures who have such tendencies; almost all of the higher animals are bisexual, non-monogamous, follow their own nature, and have no understanding of the sin of restriction; they have no priests indoctrinating them with the morality of a slave.

The experience of domination and submission are important aspects of sex magick and indeed of the natural human experience, without which we become rather subhuman and generally miserable creatures.


you aren't an imaginary creature called pan.

Pan is an archetype, a god of music and nature and of paganism (naturism, countryside-ism); he is not a de-ville (a city god); he represents the opposite of that; his archetype is that of numerous gods (ancestral spirits) in the afterlife.

I am not imaginary creature however, but I am a god of nature and of music.

http://luciferia.tv/images/images new studio/studio13a.jpg

That which we love and evoke (call upon), there is a tendency for us to tend to invoke (personify).

http://luciferia.tv/images/demon.gif

You seem to prefer the de-ville to Pan, but the de-ville is not a very nice god; I have met so many of his slaves, lost in Plato's cave, stumbling in darkness; the de-ville is the god of restriction, tyranny and money; Saturn always devours his chilren in the end; Pan's realm is full of music, nature, love, freedom; everything that the de-villes hate and despise so much.

The house-slave who is in bondage generally considers the free spirit to be a demon; that is what his master has conditioned him to believe.

LL

Lux

http://luciferia.tv/images/images studio/images/astudio1d.jpg

[runciter]

The experience of domination and submission are important aspects of sex magick and indeed of the natural human experience, without which we become rather subhuman and generally miserable creatures.


you underwent submission experiences, i suppose, and look what you've become.

i'm not talking about your physical body.

[thirdwave]

you underwent submission experiences, i suppose, and look what you've become.

i'm not talking about your physical body.

dear oh dear....
:rolleyes:

[luciferhorus]

you underwent submission experiences, i suppose, and look what you've become.



And you did not and when I consider what you have become, I feel sorry for such a lost soul. You are trapped in Plato's cave; you consider Light to be darkness, love to be hate and hate to be love, the demonic to be angelic and the angelic demonic.

You poor wretched creature stumbling in the dark.

LL

Lux

[runciter]

dear oh dear....
:rolleyes:

any non submitted person can see that there's something odd about his views.

he has some interesting ideas, but everything smells of death.

[runciter]

And you did not and when I consider what you have become, I feel sorry for such a lost soul. You are trapped in Plato's cave; you consider Light to be darkness, love to be hate and hate to be love, the demonic to be angelic and the angelic demonic.

You poor wretched creature stumbling in the dark.

LL

Lux

forced homosexuality doesn't correspond to my idea of love, i must admit.

[thirdwave]

any non submitted person can see that there's something odd about his views.

he has some interesting ideas, but everything smells of death.


Im just happy I don't have your nose.

[thirdwave]

forced homosexuality doesn't correspond to my idea of love, i must admit.

well you are the one who brought it up... so it must be on your mind.

[runciter]

Im just happy I don't have your nose.

thou shalt not be aware.

[runciter]

well you are the one who brought it up... so it must be on your mind.

are you even unable to read luciferhorus' posts?

good for you that you don't have my eyes, you would see a lot of bizarre things.

[eternal_spirit]

Quote:
Originally Posted by runciter http://www.davidicke.com/forum/images/buttons_green/viewpost.gif (http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?p=948043#post948043)
any non submitted person can see that there's something odd about his views.

he has some interesting ideas, but everything smells of death.

quote thirdwave
Im just happy I don't have your nose. Oh lol
You're loosing your sense of smell. You know they say you get immuned to smells when you've been around them along time. Advice take some fresh air.

[thirdwave]

thou shalt not be aware.

thout shall not see ice cream and smell shit.

[thirdwave]

Quote:
Originally Posted by runciter http://www.davidicke.com/forum/images/buttons_green/viewpost.gif (http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?p=948043#post948043)
any non submitted person can see that there's something odd about his views.

he has some interesting ideas, but everything smells of death.

Oh lol
You're loosing your sense of smell. You know they say you get immuned to smells when you've been around them along time. Advice take some fresh air.

the relevance is how you perceive the smell in the first place... I like LH makes allot of sense and refreshing to see someone with some knowledge of the subject.... if you truly want to learn about the Kabbalah and about Lucifer... then I would advice you get into a intellectual discussion with him.

[thirdwave]

are you even unable to read luciferhorus' posts?

good for you that you don't have my eyes, you would see a lot of bizarre things.

I have read them and most of what he is saying I think is spot on.

listening to you babble on in-between his posts just shows how clueless you really are offering nothing other than vage aloof comments and opinions on another beliefs... and I think this thread exposes that.

[runciter]

thout shall not see ice cream and smell shit.

you see ice cream when someone praises the virtues of forced homosexuality.

interesting.

[runciter]

I have read them and most of what he is saying I think is spot on.

listening to you babble on in-between his posts just shows how clueless you really are offering nothing other than vage aloof comments and opinions on another beliefs... and I think this thread exposes that.

no need to read between the lines, with lucifer.

[thirdwave]

you see ice cream when someone praises the virtues of forced homosexuality.

interesting.

I'm not interested in your lies and attempts to provoke with false accusations ... those are your issues.

[thirdwave]

no need to read between the lines, with lucifer.


I like Lucifer, I much prefer him to the God you worship...

[runciter]

I'm not interested in your lies and attempts to provoke with false accusations ... those are your issues.

lies and false accusations, yes.. :)

didn't you read lucifer's post about sparta?

[runciter]

I like Lucifer, I much prefer him to the God you worship...

there's no need to worship anything, from my point of view.

[thirdwave]

there's no need to worship anything, from my point of view.

lies..

[luciferhorus]

lies and false accusations, yes.. :)

didn't you read lucifer's post about sparta?

With regards to my comments on sexuality in Sparta and Athens and your various responses.

The Sin of Restriction and the Morality of a Slave.

Sparta and Athens

I should point out that in Sparta (the Communist model) there was really no such a thing as exclusive homosexuality; it was a universally bisexual culture; similarly in Athens (the Capitalist model), exclusively homosexual culture was probably virtually non-existant; these were openly bisexual cultures; men were expected to marry and bear children.


Plato

During the trial of Oscar Wilde prior to being sentenced to hard labour for homosexuality, he quoted Plato's words on the love between men being deeper than that between men and women; Plato never mentions his wife, but he often spoke of his love for men; and yet it is Plato's philosophy whom the public schoolboys of the elites of Christendom are indoctrinated with; indeed even the term 'fag' originally refers to a young public schoolboy who is assigned to be the servant of an older boy; the male elties of Christendom were often introduced to the experience of sex by their male elders; it is no secret; and from the stories I have heard, it was often not consensual. I am not justifying non-consensual sex; on the contrary I dissaprove of it entirely and I consider it to be 'rape;' but that is the reality of Christendom.

Islam

Mohammed, like Moses, was openly homophobic, yet Mohammad had several wives, once of whom was a prepubescent; he kept numerous female sex slaves and his profession was as a slave trader; sex with a slave I would define as rape. I think if the Creator was going to send a 'Last Prophet' that She could do a lot better than a homophobic (man hating) misogyinistic (woman hating) slave trader.

And yet...

I was out in Morocco before Christmas and similarly in Morocco exclusive homosexuality is unhead of among native Moroccans and it is also a criminal offense; yet Morocco is probably the most bisexual culture on the face of the earth.

It is a well known fact that the current king Mohammed VI, when he was a student in Belgium regularly frequented the gay bars and saunas; the evidence is all over the Internet; even today he still has an American boyfriend, yet he is married with children.

Many Moroccan men are just like their king, and having travelled in many Muslim countries I can assure you that it is the same everywhere, though less overt.

Moroccan men walk down the streets holding hands and they kiss each other upon greeting; they are full of affection and love.

If you are a girly looking guy born with an overdose of female hormones (like myself) walking around the streets of Morocco, it is much like being a pretty woman walking around the streets of Rome and being constantly harrassed by Italian men.

You can try to legislate human nature, and make laws to forbid the various types of love and lust, but human nature always prevails.

Christian Homophobia (Homo=man Phobia=fear; i.e., the fear of, or hatred of men)

On the other hand in Christendom, we have a homophobic history where gays and lesbians have been persecuted, imprisioned and considered somehow 'Satanic' by the Church; a Church which is full of gay priests; (in fact I once had fantanstic sex with a young Anglican priest) and yet which currently considers homosexuality to be a sin.

Hate in the name of love

The hypocritical morals of the paternalistic, misogynistic (woman hating), and indeed man hating priesthood of the god of Capital have been imposed on the masses and they have ended up in an often loveless, often arrainged (forced marraige / forced rape), monogamous state of misery.

David Icke

It is the 21st century and I do understand the power of the hypnosis of the priesthood of Capital and their propagation of the sin of restriction, but here on the David Icke forum I would expect most of you to be somewhat enlightened about such matters and to see through all this; David himself certainly does as, is apparent by his stated position on human sexuality; he is certainly not homophobic; I think him to be a very loving person, albeit an exclusive heterosexual.

Elizabeth Windsor, the 'temporal' head of the Church

Our head of state here in the UK is also the head of the Church, a church which considers love between men to be sin (i.e., evil) and yet one of her sons (Andrew) is exclusively gay and another of her sons, the heir to the throne, is bisexual (Charles).

Jesus, the alleged 'eternal' head of the Church

This all leads to the discussion of the sexuality of Jesus, but I shall create a separate thread on this subject, since it cannot be dealt with briefly.

LL

Lux
http://www.luciferia.tv/animation/A.gif

'This is my commandment, that you love each other as I have love you.'

[zero1]

Luciferhorus,

Does the God of Capital have a specific name?

Does he incarnate here on Earth?

[luciferhorus]

Luciferhorus,

Does the God of Capital have a specific name?




Yes of course he does; according to the theology of the priesthood of Capital, his name is Jesus; they worship him as an object of idolatry and propagate the anti-thesis (opposite idea) of his anti-Capitalist teachings; he is one of the three gods in their tri-theistic, mono-theistic faith, but the issue of polytheistic monotheism is beneath my intelligence and so you would have to ask a Christian to confuse and hypnotise you about such nonsense.

The other names are 'Father' and 'Holy Spirit' but these are not really 'names;' they are more of a description, and they don't seem to speak very much and are silent partners so we have to go with the words of the Communist Jesus and if you are looking for a name rather than a description, there is only 'Jesus.'


Does he incarnate here on Earth?

As I understand it Elizabeth Windsor is his highest representative on earth to the Anglicans, and the ex-Hitler youth anti-Communist Pope Ratzinger to the Catholics. Other cults have their own representatives.

I don't think the word 'incarnate' is appropriate however since the Anglicans and Catholics do not believe in reincarnation; Windsor and Ratzinger are merely his representatives and only Ratzinger speaks infallibly on his behalf, while Windsor is just another sinner (i.e., a demon; an evil person) whose priests sell salvation in his name for capitalist coin and bury the dead of their narco-terrorist mercenaries promising them Capitalist heaven.

One of George Bush's famous statements however is that 'God told me to invade Iraq', and since Bush is also an Anglican (Episcopalian in the U.S.) apparently God (Jesus to the Anglicans) speaks directly to him, and on his last visit to the UK (I was at the demonstration outside Buckingham Palace with the Anarchists) Elizabeth did not excommunicate him and instead laid on a multi million pound banquet for him; the 'multi-million pound' figure includes the millions spent on policing the anti-Capitalists who wanted to kill the bastard and his English/German girlfriend, our monarch and Jesus's representative on earth.

I hope that answers your questions and clarifies the name of the god in whom Capitalist state terrorist, narco-terrorist, imperialism, torture and murder is justified by the Capitalist elites and the hypocrites of religion .

Much love to you

Lux

http://www.luciferia.tv/animation/A.gif

[zero1]

Yes of course he does; according to the theology of the priesthood of Capital, his name is Jesus; they worship him as an object of idolatry and propagate the anti-thesis (opposite idea) of his anti-Capitalist teachings; he is one of the three gods in their tri-theistic, mono-theistic faith, but the issue of polytheistic monotheism is beneath my intelligence and so you would have to ask a Christian to confuse and hypnotise you about such nonsense.

The other names are 'Father' and 'Holy Spirit' but they don't seem to speak very much and are silent partners so we have to go with the words of teh Communist Jesus.



As I understand it Elizabeth Windsor is his highest representative on earth to the Anglicans, and the ex-Hitler youth anti-Communist Pope Ratzinger to the Catholics. Other cults have their own representatives.

I don't think the word 'incarnate' is appropriate however since the Anglicans and Catholics do not believe in reincarnation; Windsor and Ratzinger are merely his representatives and only Ratzinger speaks infallibly on his behalf, while Windsor is just another sinner (i.e., a demon; an evil person) whose priests sell salvation in his name for capitalist coin and bury the dead of their narco-terrorist mercenaries promising them Capitalist heave.

One of George Bush's famous statements however is that 'God told me to invade Iraq', and since Bush is also an Anglican (Episcopalian in the U.S.) apparently God (Jesus to the Anglicans) speaks directly to him, and on his last visit to the UK (I was at the demonstration outside Buckingham Palace with the Anarchists) Elizabeth did not excommunicate him and instead laid on a multi million pound banquet with him (if you include the millions spent on policing the anti-Capitalists who wanted to kill the bastard and his English/German girlfriend, our monarch and Jesus's representative on earth).


I hope that answers your questions.


Much love to you

Lux

http://www.luciferia.tv/animation/A.gif

Partly it does answer, thanks.

I was wondering if you considered this God of Capital to be a metaphysical entity, an existing supernatural spirit or being such as "God" is held to be by theists, or just an idea worked into myth to legitimize Capitalism and give it the highest authority (in the Capitalist worshippers estimation, that is)?

[luciferhorus]

Partly it does answer, thanks.

I was wondering if you considered this God of Capital to be a metaphysical entity, an existing supernatural spirit or being such as "God" is held to be by theists, or just an idea worked into myth to legitimize Capitalism and give it the highest authority (in the Capitalist worshippers estimation, that is)?

Well Zero1, I was reading your 'Yahweh and Jesus' thread and it seems that we concur on the Christ demon being the son of Zeus and a product of mythology; I assume that you are familiar with David Icke and Jordan Maxwell's view of this; it is Maxwell's voice on the intro to Zeitgeist, but I presuppose you are quite enlightened on all this.

To give you a straight answer, yes I believe that there is a Grand Master of Hell (i.e., the Christian god) who is a demon; it is not 'only' an anthromorphic projection of the Bush. Windsor clan etc.

With regards to YHVH, see my thread 'The Kabbalah Simplified;' with regards to Jesus see my threads 'Capitalist Jesus' and 'Gay Jesus;' otherwise I will just be repeating myself.

Love and Light to you.

Lux

[thirdwave]

Hay LH

just kind of pulling things to the side slightly... what are your views on Ickes reptilian research?

[zero1]

Well Zero1, I was reading your 'Yahweh and Jesus' thread and it seems that we concur on the Christ demon being the son of Zeus and a product of mythology; I assume that you are familiar with David Icke and Jordan Maxwell's view of this; it is Maxwell's voice on the intro to Zeitgeist, but I presuppose you are quite enlightened on all this.

To give you a straight answer, yes I believe that there is a Grand Master of Hell (i.e., the Christian god) who is a demon; it is not 'only' an anthromorphic projection of the Bush. Windsor clan etc.

With regards to YHVH, see my thread 'The Kabbalah Simplified;' with regards to Jesus see my threads 'Capitalist Jesus' and 'Gay Jesus;' otherwise I will just be repeating myself.

Love and Light to you.

Lux


Yes, thanks again LH,

I've enjoyed your Kaballah thread too, and I'd like to return the compliment - I look forward to reading more of your insights on here.

Love & Light to you also,
Z1

[luciferhorus]

Hay LH

just kind of pulling things to the side slightly... what are your views on Ickes reptilian research?


I don't accept Icke's views on this.

Arizona Wilder was allegedly a sex slave of the elites. Some doubt her, some believe her.

However we know for a 'fact,' with absolute certainty that the military and economic elites (the Anglo-American Christian narco-terrorists) have a long history of kidnapping people and experimenting on them in missions such as MK-ULTRA where they plied victims with psychotropic drugs (at doseage levels of the equivalent of up to 1000 tabs of acid); we need not 'believe' or 'doubt' this since the evidence shows this to be factual.

Fortunately I come fully equipped with an advanced knowledge of organic chemistry and have used my own consiousness as an experiment for the effects of LSD, marijuana, opium, psilocybe, cocaine, DMT and other substances for shamanic and also commercial purposes (earning a living); I have also been prosecuted for this (120 skunk plants) and have a criminal record which prohibits me progressing in this field of psychological reseach, since I have no particular desire to end my life behind bars as the wife of some gangster.

Reptiles?

Of course. Read the trip reports on http://www.erowid.org

These are subjective experiences.

The world is ruled by Capitalist demons; Mao (who was not an atheist) understood this; he believed that he had to wage war against some Capitalist demon; his remarks to this effect have been interpreted psychologically, but I get the same shamanic experience as Mao.

But shape-shifting reptiles? No, sorry.

I have had countless similar experiences myself since my teens when I would sell and use LSD; more recently I ran a commerical psilocybe lab when it was legal over here (UK) and have had unlimited access to abundant quantities of the most powerful psychoactives known to humanity and I can tell you that it 'does' give you such experiences which could be interpreted as Arizona Wilder claims, but that they are totally subjective.

There are no shape-shifting reptiles, only Capitalist demons; I refer to Mao not Wilder.

Icke is simply wrong; but having said that I concur with most of his analysis of Capitalism and Religious cultism; to be wrong about something is often just a simple misunderstanding; it is not a moral (good / evil) judgement, since I consider Icke to be a great soul, albeit very confused about the 'reptile' issue.

The Freemasons are not shape-shifting reptiles; but Capitalist demons, certainly I have not an iota of doubt.

LL

Lux

[thirdwave]

I don't accept Icke's views on this.

Arizona Wilder was allegedly a sex slave of the elites. Some doubt her, some believe her.

However we know for a 'fact,' with absolute certainty that the military and economic elites (the Anglo-American Christian narco-terrorists) have a long history of kidnapping people and experimenting on them in missions such as MK-ULTRA where they plied victims with psychotropic drugs (at doseage levels of the equivalent of up to 1000 tabs of acid); we need not 'believe' or 'doubt' this since the evidence shows this to be factual.

Fortunately I come fully equipped with an advanced knowledge of organic chemistry and have used my own consiousness as an experiment for the effects of LSD, marijuana, opium, psilocybe, cocaine, DMT and other substances for shamanic and also commercial purposes (earning a living); I have also been prosecuted for this (120 skunk plants) and have a criminal record which prohibits me progressing in this field of psychological reseach, since I have no particular desire to end my life behind bars as the wife of some gangster.

Reptiles?

Of course. Read the trip reports on http://www.erowid.org

These are subjective experiences.

The world is ruled by Capitalist demons; Mao (who was not an atheist) understood this; he believed that he had to wage war against some Capitalist demon; his remarks to this effect have been interpreted psychologically, but I get the same shamanic experience as Mao.

But shape-shifting reptiles? No, sorry.

I have had countless similar experiences myself since my teens when I would sell and use LSD; more recently I ran a commerical psilocybe lab when it was legal over here (UK) and have had unlimited access to abundant quantities of the most powerful psychoactives known to humanity and I can tell you that it 'does' give you such experiences which could be interpreted as Arizona Wilder claims, but that they are totally subjective.

There are no shape-shifting reptiles, only Capitalist demons; I refer to Mao not Wilder.

Icke is simply wrong; but having said that I concur with most of his analysis of Capitalism and Religious cultism; to be wrong about something is often just a simple misunderstanding; it is not a moral (good / evil) judgement, since I consider Icke to be a great soul, albeit very confused about the 'reptile' issue.

The Freemasons are not shape-shifting reptiles; but Capitalist demons, certainly I have not an iota of doubt.

LL

Lux

thanks.. I my self feel some of the research (Arazona) is not really strong enough for the reasons you have put across..

though I feel the amount of Historical Reptilian stuff ..gods... so on... and the fact we know such beings can exist... I cant see why there could not be some reptilian type entities leaching off us on another plane.. you only need to look at Lam from Crowley to see there are some pretty odd things out there..

but yeah, saying the Queen is a shape shifter who almost double in size Im not so sure... thought the fact she came to Icke with this story is interesting in its self...

Graham Hancock and Daniel Pinchbeck have interesting books on how shamans have interacted with reptilian type beings..

[runciter]

Plato

During the trial of Oscar Wilde prior to being sentenced to hard labour for homosexuality, he quoted Plato's words on the love between men being deeper than that between men and women; Plato never mentions his wife, but he often spoke of his love for men; and yet it is Plato's philosophy whom the public schoolboys of the elites of Christendom are indoctrinated with; indeed even the term 'fag' originally refers to a young public schoolboy who is assigned to be the servant of an older boy; the male elties of Christendom were often introduced to the experience of sex by their male elders; it is no secret; and from the stories I have heard, it was often not consensual. I am not justifying non-consensual sex; on the contrary I dissaprove of it entirely and I consider it to be 'rape;' but that is the reality of Christendom.


Using the concepts of Platonism to analyse Israeli policies based on 'Jewish ideology' should not seem strange. It was noticed by several scholars, of whom the most important was Moses Hadas, who claimed that the foundations of 'classical Judaism', that is, of Judaism as it was established by talmudic sages, are based on Platonic influences and especially on the image of Sparta as it appears in Plato. According to Hadas, a crucial feature of the Platonic political system, adopted by Judaism as early as the Maccabean period (142-63 BC), was 'that every phase of human conduct be subject to religious sanctions which are in fact to be manipulated by the ruler'. There can be no better definition of 'classical Judaism' and of the ways in which the rabbis manipulated it than this Platonic definition. In particular, Hadas claims that Judaism adopted what 'Plato himself summarized [as] the objectives of his program', in the following well-known passage:

"The principle thing is that no one, man or woman, should ever be without an officer set over him, and that none should get the mental habit of taking any step, whether in earnest or in jest, on his individual responsibility. In peace as in war he must live always with his eyes on his superior officer... In a word, we must train the mind not to even consider acting as an invidual or know how to do it." (Laws, 942ab)

If the word 'rabbi' is substituted for 'an officer' we will have a perfect image of classical Judaism. The latter is still deeply influencing Israeli-Jewish society and determing to a large extent the Israeli policies.

http://www.radioislam.org/historia/shahak/english.htm

[luciferhorus]

thanks.. I my self feel some of the research (Arazona) is not really strong enough for the reasons you have put across..

though I feel the amount of Historical Reptilian stuff ..gods... so on... and the fact we know such beings can exist... I cant see why there could not be some reptilian type entities leaching off us on another plane.. you only need to look at Lam from Crowley to see there are some pretty odd things out there..

but yeah, saying the Queen is a shape shifter who almost double in size Im not so sure... thought the fact she came to Icke with this story is interesting in its self...

Graham Hancock and Daniel Pinchbeck have interesting books on how shamans have interacted with reptilian type beings..
On Necromancy

One of the secrets of 'Scientology' which you have to pay vast sums of money for explains this quite simply.

Frankly I despise Scientology and L. Ron, never the less it is important to study such cults; L.Ron and Jack Parsons were 'O.T.O.' cultists and L.Ron I believe adapted and imported much of this knowledge into Scientology to which he added a lot of incredulous nonsense and then 'sold' his system to his cultists.

L. Ron's essential Cosmology (his view of the spiritual and physical realms) to which he added some bizarre legends, was I believe gleaned from the O.T.O and is at the core of necromantic magick.

Simply put we live in a universe of billions of solar systems which is billions of years old. Intelligent life did not and has not only developed on earth; the universe contains numerous planets where intelligent life has developed in the past and present. Other forms of intelligent life are not necessarily 'homo-sapiens' but they are similar intelligent creatures never the less. At the point of death they pass over to the afterlife (the ancestral realms), where they are free to roam the universe. They can see us and hear us and they watch us just like we watch a reality TV show like big brother. They cannot interfere with us but they can influence us spiritually; they live in another very real realm of light which is parallel to ours. This is the origin of 'fairies,' sprites, angels and numerous other terms that we use to describe different types of spirits; it is very much a 'Lord of the Rings' type view with numerous different 'types; of intelligent creatures both in our universe 'and' in the ancestral realms.

Essentially if I state this in a derogatory manner, Scientologists pay thousands of dollars to be told that they are surrounded by the ancestral spirits of 'space aliens.'

Incredible though it may seem, this belief is at the core of necromantic magick and frankly it is my own view based upon my own shamanic experiences.

Yes there are other malevolent and benevolent spiritual beings which surround and influence us. Can a person be possessed by a malevolent spirit? Yes, that is what I believe. But shape-shifting reptiles as a 'physical' phenomenon? No I don't believe that.


For example one of reasons I refer to my Masonic father as 'The Devil' is that during an L.S.D. period of my teens, he did actually 'transform' before my eyes into 'The Devil' as one would expect from a painting by Dante, and this experience came 'after' I had other demonic and angelic 'spiritual / shamanic' experiences, so I was aware at the time that was purely a subjective experience; however I do believe that I simply saw his 'spiritual state,' and that it was not simply my 'imagination.' Further I had even in my teens deeply delved into occult studies so I interpreted this all shamanically; whereas Arizona Wilder appears to have had similar experiences, but she reaches different conclusions.

Frankly Icke's acceptance of Wilder's view is in my opinion, the central problem with his works, which are otherwise an insightful analysis of the world of Capital and Religion.

One can barely speak of Icke on anti-Capitalist forums without being ridiculed and the 'reptile' issue being raised, which is a shame since it is my view that many (though not all) Communists and Anarchists fail to understand the relationship between esoteric cultism and Capital, which is something which Icke clearly understands.

Having said all this there is clear scientific evidence in the archaeological record of different types of similar beings to us such as homo erectus and there are also cases of 'giantism' and so forth. Bear in mind that if you research this, some of the images of the skeletal remains of such giants on google images are fakes; however there is clear evidence of this. With regards to intelligent beings who have a 'similar' appearance to reptiles, it is certainly possible, but I find no clear evidence of this on earth, which is not to say that they do not and have not existed; never the less the idea of Bush and Windsor physically transforming into reptiles is an idea which I find too incredulous to accept.

Bear in mind also that since Wilder is widely labelled as a classic schizophrenic (gr. Shattered mind), if Wilder's tale of her abduction and abuse is true, to be fair to her I think that if she had undergone such trauma, schizophrenia would be perfectly normal in such circumstances. Further if she was being given psychotropic substances, we have no idea of the dosage; for example, personally I doubt if anyone could ever recover psychologically from the alleged 1000 tabs of acid (the equivalent) which they were using in the MK-Ultra experiments; I would expect that the victim would be so desperate to end the experience that they may have become suicidal (which is also reported).

Having said all this, I did at one point listen to her testimony for many hours on video.google and I find that she simply has too much knowledge of occultism to dismiss her, and although she could have gleaned all this from occult literature, we would have to then reach the conclusion that she is a fantasist and a rather intelligent compulsive liar. Frankly I find her believable despite her 'reptilian' experiences and her obvious and understandable schizophrenia and the appearance of paranoia. Paranoia is defined as a 'false fear,' but if her tale has any basis in reality which I suspect it does, I can understand why she comes across that way since the American state terrorists do have an empirically provable history of kidnapping, torture, assassination etc; in order to resist evil, it is firstly necessary to overcome the fear of death; with Arizona I sense a very real ‘fear;’ which could be confused with paranoia; I think that is one of Icke’s admirable qualities which I intuitively recognise; he seems to have overcome the fear of his very powerful, very militant and very real enemies.
Death is inevitable anyway.

LL

Lux

[thirdwave]

On Necromancy

One of the secrets of 'Scientology' which you have to pay vast sums of money for explains this quite simply.

Frankly I despise Scientology and L. Ron, never the less it is important to study such cults; L.Ron and Jack Parsons were 'O.T.O.' cultists and L.Ron I believe adapted and imported much of this knowledge into Scientology to which he added a lot of incredulous nonsense and then 'sold' his system to his cultists.

L. Ron's essential Cosmology (his view of the spiritual and physical realms) to which he added some bizarre legends, was I believe gleaned from the O.T.O and is at the core of necromantic magick.

Simply put we live in a universe of billions of solar systems which is billions of years old. Intelligent life did not and has not only developed on earth; the universe contains numerous planets where intelligent life has developed in the past and present. Other forms of intelligent life are not necessarily 'homo-sapiens' but they are similar intelligent creatures never the less. At the point of death they pass over to the afterlife (the ancestral realms), where they are free to roam the universe. They can see us and hear us and they watch us just like we watch a reality TV show like big brother. They cannot interfere with us but they can influence us spiritually; they live in another very real realm of light which is parallel to ours. This is the origin of 'fairies,' sprites, angels and numerous other terms that we use to describe different types of spirits; it is very much a 'Lord of the Rings' type view with numerous different 'types; of intelligent creatures both in our universe 'and' in the ancestral realms.

Essentially if I state this in a derogatory manner, Scientologists pay thousands of dollars to be told that they are surrounded by the ancestral spirits of 'space aliens.'

Incredible though it may seem, this belief is at the core of necromantic magick and frankly it is my own view based upon my own shamanic experiences.

Yes there are other malevolent and benevolent spiritual beings which surround and influence us. Can a person be possessed by a malevolent spirit? Yes, that is what I believe. But shape-shifting reptiles as a 'physical' phenomenon? No I don't believe that.


For example one of reasons I refer to my Masonic father as 'The Devil' is that during an L.S.D. period of my teens, he did actually 'transform' before my eyes into 'The Devil' as one would expect from a painting by Dante, and this experience came 'after' I had other demonic and angelic 'spiritual / shamanic' experiences, so I was aware at the time that was purely a subjective experience; however I do believe that I simply saw his 'spiritual state,' and that it was not simply my 'imagination.' Further I had even in my teens deeply delved into occult studies so I interpreted this all shamanically; whereas Arizona Wilder appears to have had similar experiences, but she reaches different conclusions.

Frankly Icke's acceptance of Wilder's view is in my opinion, the central problem with his works, which are otherwise an insightful analysis of the world of Capital and Religion.

One can barely speak of Icke on anti-Capitalist forums without being ridiculed and the 'reptile' issue being raised, which is a shame since it is my view that many (though not all) Communists and Anarchists fail to understand the relationship between esoteric cultism and Capital, which is something which Icke clearly understands.

Having said all this there is clear scientific evidence in the archaeological record of different types of similar beings to us such as homo erectus and there are also cases of 'giantism' and so forth. Bear in mind that if you research this, some of the images of the skeletal remains of such giants on google images are fakes; however there is clear evidence of this. With regards to intelligent beings who have a 'similar' appearance to reptiles, it is certainly possible, but I find no clear evidence of this on earth, which is not to say that they do not and have not existed; never the less the idea of Bush and Windsor physically transforming into reptiles is an idea which I find too incredulous to accept.

Bear in mind also that since Wilder is widely labelled as a classic schizophrenic (gr. Shattered mind), if Wilder's tale of her abduction and abuse is true, to be fair to her I think that if she had undergone such trauma, schizophrenia would be perfectly normal in such circumstances. Further if she was being given psychotropic substances, we have no idea of the dosage; for example, personally I doubt if anyone could ever recover psychologically from the alleged 1000 tabs of acid (the equivalent) which they were using in the MK-Ultra experiments; I would expect that the victim would be so desperate to end the experience that they may have become suicidal (which is also reported).

Having said all this, I did at one point listen to her testimony for many hours on video.google and I find that she simply has too much knowledge of occultism to dismiss her, and although she could have gleaned all this from occult literature, we would have to then reach the conclusion that she is a fantasist and a rather intelligent compulsive liar. Frankly I find her believable despite her 'reptilian' experiences and her obvious and understandable schizophrenia and the appearance of paranoia. Paranoia is defined as a 'false fear,' but if her tale has any basis in reality which I suspect it does, I can understand why she comes across that way since the American state terrorists do have an empirically provable history of kidnapping, torture, assassination etc; in order to resist evil, it is firstly necessary to overcome the fear of death; with Arizona I sense a very real ‘fear;’ which could be confused with paranoia; I think that is one of Icke’s admirable qualities which I intuitively recognise; he seems to have overcome the fear of his very powerful, very militant and very real enemies.
Death is inevitable anyway.

LL

Lux



I pretty much see it as you do mate... though Im not sure Icke actually see's it as Arizona does... I always felt he sometimes did not really clarify him self here as he also did always go into the nature of perception and how things are all a vibration that our brain perceive... so on..

I have a conversation with him in Avebury by the stone circles and he was a really nice guy, I asked him about this and he compared the "shape shift" to a TV that suddenly had a bad reception or "like those poor quality videos".. and made the point that it was not as simple as our 3D bodies moving shape ... but it is the perception which shifts...

He has since gone into it a bit in his Video casts.... but at times has not really emphasised this view which has lead a few people not really being able to get there heads around how peoples skin and bones and moved into something different... which of course has no scientific explanation and no sense to it at all...

[luciferhorus]

I pretty much see it as you do mate... though Im not sure Icke actually see's it as Arizona does... I always felt he sometimes did not really clarify him self here as he also did always go into the nature of perception and how things are all a vibration that our brain perceive... so on..

I have a conversation with him in Avebury by the stone circles and he was a really nice guy, I asked him about this and he compared the "shape shift" to a TV that suddenly had a bad reception or "like those poor quality videos".. and made the point that it was not as simple as our 3D bodies moving shape ... but it is the perception which shifts...

He has since gone into it a bit in his Video casts.... but at times has not really emphasised this view which has lead a few people not really being able to get there heads around how peoples skin and bones and moved into something different... which of course has no scientific explanation and no sense to it at all...


I am go to Avebury at least once a month with the Druids, Witches and assorted Satanists for the ritual and the ale drinking and conversation in the pub; sorry to have missed you and David, but when you are next in the Glastonbury area, send me a PTM (personal text message) and I'll be sure to drown you in some Somerset ale :-).

Love to you

Lux.

[eternal_spirit]

Yes of course he does; according to the theology of the priesthood of Capital, his name is Jesus; they worship him as an object of idolatry and propagate the anti-thesis (opposite idea) of his anti-Capitalist teachings; he is one of the three gods in their tri-theistic, mono-theistic faith, but the issue of polytheistic monotheism is beneath my intelligence and so you would have to ask a Christian to confuse and hypnotise you about such nonsense.All you have to go on is storys from the Bible (like Jesus overturned the tables of the money lenders in the Temples, if the storys are true then yes seems Jesus was against the Jewish system of "usury", which is the roots of the modren day banking system (loans/interest) he was also against other Jewish teachings (The Pharisees - the priesthood ) which probably comes from the word Pharoae. The word "Cohen" relates to "coin"

Only problem is like any other interpretation of who and what Jesus was, did and believed, you can only have a finite amount of versions of this, hence divisions in Christian denominations. So you're basing what you believe Jesus to be ob something you read in the Bible. Which is based on faith (and believing what the priesthood's wrote)

Many religions including Christianity have trinities which are sort of mistaken as mono theistic. The mother, father and son (child) Also, they have their arch Angels, Demons, Martyrs, Saints. Ancient and more modern religions also have a head God and or Goddess. (so all are in a sense mono-theistic)

The other names are 'Father' and 'Holy Spirit' but these are not really 'names;' they are more of a description, and they don't seem to speak very much and are silent partners so we have to go with the words of the Communist Jesus and if you are looking for a name rather than a description, there is only 'Jesus.'


Not everyone agrees with who or what he was.

[watson_k]

Not everyone agrees with who or what he was.

Or even if he ever existed :(

[eternal_spirit]

[QUOTE]As I understand it Elizabeth Windsor is his highest representative on earth to the Anglicans, and the ex-Hitler youth anti-Communist Pope Ratzinger to the Catholics. Other cults have their own representatives.

There is mounting evidence that the three major recent leaders of the Catholic church are ALL Jewish. Pope John Paul II had a Jewish mother and a Jewish grandmother. The present Pope, former Cardinal Ratzinger, may well be a German Jew (Ratzinger is a Jewish name), and the “Black Pope”, Jesuit General Peter-Hans Kolvenbach, could not look more Jewish. View his picture and you decide.

I don't think the word 'incarnate' is appropriate however since the Anglicans and Catholics do not believe in reincarnation; Windsor and Ratzinger are merely his representatives and only Ratzinger speaks infallibly on his behalf, while Windsor is just another sinner (i.e., a demon; an evil person) whose priests sell salvation in his name for capitalist coin and bury the dead of their narco-terrorist mercenaries promising them Capitalist heaven.

Quote:
'United Press International
October 10, 1986
MOSLEMS IN BUCKINGHAM PALACE


Mixed in with Queen Elizabeth's blue blood is the blood of the Moslem prophet Mohammed, according to Burke's Peerage, the geneological guide to royalty. The relation came out when Harold B. Brooks-Baker, publishing director of Burke's, wrote Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher to ask for better security for the royal family. ''The royal family's direct descent from the prophet Mohammed cannot be relied upon to protect the royal family forever from Moslem terrorists,'' he said. Probably realizing the connection would be a surprise to many, he added, ''It is little known by the British people that the blood of Mohammed flows in the veins of the queen. However, all Moslem religious leaders are proud of this fact.''

Brooks-Baker said the British royal family is descended from Mohammed through the Arab kings of Seville, who once ruled Spain. By marriage, their blood passed to the European kings of Portugal and Castille, and through them to England's 15th century King Edward IV. '
Informative Link


Could explain why Princess Diana was going to marry Dodi, keep the Mohammed bloodlines interbreeding programme going. There's rumors she was pregnant when she died. Also said that Rotshchild bloodlines are in the British royals.

So all this infighting with religions is a farce if they're all related.

One of George Bush's famous statements however is that 'God told me to invade Iraq', and since Bush is also an Anglican (Episcopalian in the U.S.) apparently God (Jesus to the Anglicans) speaks directly to him, and on his last visit to the UK (I was at the demonstration outside Buckingham Palace with the Anarchists) Elizabeth did not excommunicate him and instead laid on a multi million pound banquet for him; the 'multi-million pound' figure includes the millions spent on policing the anti-Capitalists who wanted to kill the bastard and his English/German girlfriend, our monarch and Jesus's representative on earth.




George W. Bush, Zionist Double Agent, American Traitor


"A man is considered an anti-Semite if he calls a Jew a Jew."


"Then...when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you."
—John 20:19

It was in 1990 that I first met the remarkable and brilliant Boris Lunachev. Aged, bent over slightly by repeated attacks of osteoporosis, Lunachev had asked to see me privately. He had, I understood, once been a most distinguished professor of Marxist doctrine at the prestigious Lenin Institute. He was a rising star on the Soviet political and educational scene. But in the late 70s, Lunachev was abruptly and unceremoniously ousted from his post and exiled to the West.

Shaking the wisened old man's hand and seeking to inject a friendly tone into our conversation, I smiled and said, "So, you are a Russian, Dr. Lunachev?"

"Yes, I am a Russian," he answered.

"But please, my dear friend," he continued. "Always remember, there are Russians and then there are Russians. And some who are Russian are not Russian."

Confusing language, I thought, if intriguing. I made a mental note to later inquire further into the nature of Lunachev's puzzling words. However, I soon discovered that follow up was not at all necessary. The good Professor Lunachev more than answered my curiosity with what he had to say.

A Stellar Career Until...

Lunachev recounted his stellar career, beginning as a leader of the Communist Youth, his earning of high-level doctorate degrees, and his academic career, during which he was lauded and commended on a regular basis. Apparently, Lunachev was poised for further advancement; he was even being considered for a top political position in the Kremlin as a Marxist theoretician and was well rewarded economically by the elite intelligencia. Until...until he said something very, very vital—and very, very sensitive—to the wrong person.

It seems that a high-ranking Commissar had come from Moscow to the Institute to interview Lunachev for the Kremlin post.

The Commissar, who was very pleased with Lunachev's deportment and his responses to standard questions, finally stated: "Professor Lunachev, is there any area of research or study that you have conducted that is unique or unusual?"

"Yes," Lunachev replied. "I have recently been studying the field of race and biology. I have discovered that the great Karl Marx was a Jew and so was Comrade Lenin." "Comrade Stalin was an avid reader of the Jewish Talmud, and Comrade Khruschev's real surname was Perlmutter. He, too, was a Jew."

"I believe these facts of racial history need to be reported to the Soviet people and to the world," said Lunachev, "so everyone will recognize that the government of the USSR is not, as some have alleged, anti-Semitic."

"Thank you for your time." retorted the now sober-faced and ashen Commissar. "You are dismissed."

His Unpardonable Crime

That very evening, Boris Lunachev was accosted on his way home by Soviet secret police. He was taken promptly to a waiting aircraft and flown to Rome, Italy, where he was told by Soviet Embassy officials he would forever be persona non grata (unwelcome) in his native Russia. He had become an outcast.

What was Lunachev's horrible crime, his unacceptable transgression against his Communist overseers?

"My unpardonable crime," Lunachev said to me, "was to call a Jew a Jew."

Professor Lunachev, however, considered himself fortunate, indeed. "In 1917 in Soviet Russia," he explained, "one of the first laws passed by Lenin and the Bolsheviks was a law making anti-Semitism a crime punishable by death. In Rome, the KGB bluntly told me that to call a Jew a Jew, and especially to make public the name of a crypto-Jew, one who was hiding under an assumed Russian name, was clearly an act of anti-Semitism."

And so it was that Lunachev, by no means an anti-Semite in the real meaning of the term, a man who simply wanted to give Communism's founders and pioneers their due by recognizing their racial ancestry, became a feared and marked outlaw, a dangerous subversive to be banished and persecuted.


Lenin and his cohorts were satanic Jews who put 66 million to death in the indescribable Red Terror. Yet, it was a capital crime ("anti-semitism") to reveal their Jewish ethnic identity. Pictured above are four Soviet gulag camp commandants, all Jews. They are giving a Masonic hand sign

Below: Many Communist gulag prisoners died of malnutrition. Their meager daily diet consisted of a filthy, rat feces-infested bowl of gruel and occasionally a tiny bit of black bread.


Understanding Lunachev's Predicament

I vaguely understand Lunachev's predicament. I was the first to publish the true facts regarding Hillary Rodham Clinton's Jewish ancestry. I also exposed "Irish" Senator John Kerry's true race—yep, he's a crypto-Jew. And for good measure, I threw in revelations that former Secretary of State, Comrade Madeleine Albright, and General Wesley Clark are also Jews. Reluctantly and angrily, Hillary, Kerry, Clark and Albright subsequently came out of the closet and owned up to their Jewish heritage, though they have all refused to explain why they had hidden it all these many years.

What a buzzsaw and furor I had ignited! The hounds out of Jerusalem's darkest cemeteries came at me with fangs bared, blood dripping from the corners of their gaping jaws. I discovered, as did Lunachev, that it is forbidden to call a Jew a Jew.

That was when I, too, realized, that I had unwittingly became a vile and evil "anti-Semite," targeted for destruction by the denizens of the emerging Jewish World State.

However, unlike in Soviet Russia, in America the midnight cowboys who reside in the cesspool of Soviet Washington, D.C. have so far been unable to banish Texe Marrs or to oust me from my independent perch as president of Power of Prophecy Ministries. Oh, how they have tried, but I am still here, toiling away, exercising my First Amendment rights, much to their chagrin and annoyance.



In this photo from a radical Jewish Lubavitcher web site, President Bush waves on the way to his Jewish Talmud class. He was accompanied by former White House spokesman and recently ordained Rabbi, Ari Fleischer. Sources confirm that the President is a Jewish religious fanatic but understands he must keep his beliefs under cover.


And Now, Yet Another Revelation

And now, dear friends, I have decided to reveal to you the name of yet another crypto-Jew. This time, the culprit is a man who is only the latest in a series of dynastic leaders, all of whom were and are Jews and all of whom have carefully and watchfully guarded this Great Secret. I hereby stamp myself—according to the reigning criteria or rules promulgated by the Illuminati elite—as a bonafide anti-Semite merely by once again calling a Jew a Jew. Fact: GEORGE W. BUSH, President of the United States of America, is a Jew.

Absurd? Preposterous, you say? Well, I have carefully traced the history of the Bush Dynasty, including the Rothschild faction, and without hesitation I declare to you that, yes, indeed, George W. Bush is a Jew: A Jew by race, a Jew by religious choice. Hidden from public view.

What the media dare not tell you is that, as President, George W. Bush appointed as his first official White House spokesman, a Jew—in fact, a Jewish rabbi—Ari Fleischer. He retained a Jewish banker, Alan Greenspan, as Chairman of the Federal Reserve. He made a Jewish Rabbi, Dov Zackheim, the Comptroller (money man!) of the Pentagon, and he placed a Jewish ideologue and Christian hater, Michael Chertoff, in the scary position of being head of FEMA and Homeland Security. Yes, Chertoff, an ADL fiend whose father is a Jewish rabbi, is now America's Gulag Commandant, our American version of Himmler.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y53/one4one/jewish_calendar.jpg
This publication of the National Jewish Welfare Board lists a Major George Bush, Major Louis Bush, and Major Solomon Bush, as Jews participating in the American Revolutionary War against the British. It also reveals the money connection of Rothschild agent, Haym Salomon, to what it describes as the "weak U.S. government."

My investigation of the Bush-Jewish connection has been in progress for six years now. One thing I discovered is that George W. Bush is a devoted student of the Jewish Talmud, just as were Marx, Lenin, Trotsky, and Stalin. He is also, I am persuaded, a dedicated agent of Zionist Israel, which makes him double agent and traitor to the United States of America.

Bush has adopted the same techniques of torture, political deceit, perpetual war, and pure hatred of perceived enemies, as has the notorious Israeli spy agency, Mossad. The Mossad's motto is "By Way of Deception Make War." This, not coincidentally, is also George W. Bush's motto. How very Talmudic. How very Satanic.

"Christians Who Are Not Christians"

But, isn't Bush supposed to be a Christian? How, then can he be a religious Jew? Ah, perhaps those who ask this question should read books like Colonel Donn de Grand Pré's insightful Barbarians Inside the Gates: Book Three, the Rattler's Revenge. As my friend, the good Colonel de Grand Pré, notes so wisely in his excellently documented volume, we are confronted today by Leviathan, a two-headed monster, "one head comprised of Jews who are not Jews and the other, Christians who are not Christians."



This official photo shows First Lady Laura Bush, December 6, 2005, "kosherizing" the White House kitchen. Present is the Bush family rabbi along with two other rabbis, approved Jewish chefs, and assistants. (whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005)

Which leads me back to Professor Boris Lunachev and our informative and rewarding meeting. As we departed, I again took his hand in mine and I asked him. "Dr. Lunachev, is there anything you'd like to say to me, perhaps to capitalize or to emphasize the importance of what we have discussed?"

"Yes," Lunachev answered, his probing brown eyes peering deep into mine. "I beg you to never forget, there are Americans and then there are Americans. And some who are American are not American."

"We are one nation. We are neither American Jews nor Soviet Jews, but only Jews!"

-Theodore Herzl
Founder of Modern Zionism

http://www.goyimpride.org/2008/07/george-w.html

[eternal_spirit]

Communism and Capitalism some say will be moulded into one system and that's what the NWO one World system will be based on the third way, that's the synthesis of the two so called opposites (Communism and Capitalism) coming together as one system.

Both social experiments, two different systems/societies (created by the one Elite) Communism was said to suit the Elite's agenda of a One world Order/Government as a better means of controlling people in a Slaves Master system. Meaning - The new system/Society will be based more on a Communistic one rather than Capitalistic.

[newspaceman]

[QUOTE=luciferhorus;950861]I don't accept Icke's views on this.


Fortunately I come fully equipped with an advanced knowledge of organic chemistry and have used my own consiousness as an experiment for the effects of LSD, marijuana, opium, psilocybe, cocaine, DMT and other substances for shamanic and also commercial purposes (earning a living); I have also been prosecuted for this (120 skunk plants) and have a criminal record which prohibits me progressing in this field of psychological reseach, since I have no particular desire to end my life behind bars as the wife of some gangster.

Hiya, I am interested in this, given your stance as a communist. Surely the minimum you would harvest from each plant would be an oscar (1oz) and each oscar would retail at say 140 (in Scotland anyway), maybe more - it is a score for 3 grams of wet stuff I believe (although I get by) totalling 140 wet. Thus you would surely be making, I assume you dry it given your morals, say 13k each harvest and surely 6 harvests a year, minimum. Thus 78k a year , or was it a one off to brag about.

I doubt the logic of your fear of further psychological research - doing a stretch because of the "record" - surely you could grow one plant, or get someone to do it for you in their house, grow a bit one- longer flowering - 6 oz, should do you both for a bit. Could not pick natural drugs, magical mushrooms for example, which you could consume as found as thus continue the experiments on your consiousness (sic)

I await your reply

ciaq xx

[luciferhorus]

[QUOTE=luciferhorus;950861]I don't accept Icke's views on this.


Hiya, I am interested in this, given your stance as a communist. Surely the minimum you would harvest from each plant would be an oscar (1oz)



If you want me to be specific in my flowering room I had 10 skunk plants which I was harvesting to about 3-6 feet high; the 'skunk number 1's' are an amazing plant and I had to keep cutting off the tops to avoid them hitting the lamps, but I also had AK47 which doesn't grow very high.

Then in my cuttings room for my guerilla (outdoor) project, and for transferring to my flowering room, I had about 110 plants at various stages of vegetative growth, some were just small cuttings and some were about two months old and 2-3 feet.

and each oscar would retail at say 140 (in Scotland anyway), maybe more - it is a score for 3 grams of wet stuff I believe (although I get by) totalling 140 wet. Thus you would surely be making, I assume you dry it given your morals, say 13k each harvest and surely 6 harvests a year, minimum. Thus 78k a year , or was it a one off to brag about.

No thing like that; frankly my business revolved around supplying psilocybe to shops in London; the skunk was just to keep my friends and I constantly stoned; I never sold a single ounce; I didn't need the money anyway.

A tray of shrooms cost me less than a £1 to grow and package; the shops sold them for £20 and gave me a £10; it was a fantastic business, but I am now considering Slavia since it is legal.


I doubt the logic of your fear of further psychological research - doing a stretch because of the "record" - surely you could grow one plant, or get someone to do it for you in their house, grow a bit one- longer flowering - 6 oz, should do you both for a bit. Could not pick natural drugs, magical mushrooms for example, which you could consume as found as thus continue the experiments on your consiousness

My psychological research continues, but in order to stay out of prison I am now a customer and unfortunately I have to purchase supplies, though I do have a large allotment and I am considering perhaps growing salvia and other legal psychoactives, but I am just digging it up at the moment

LL

Lux

[newspaceman]

[QUOTE=newspaceman;953878]

If you want me to be specific in my flowering room I had 10 skunk plants which I was harvesting to about 3-6 feet high; the 'skunk number 1's' are an amazing plant and I had to keep cutting off the tops to avoid them hitting the lamps, but I also had AK47 which doesn't grow very high.

Then in my cuttings room for my guerilla (outdoor) project, and for transferring to my flowering room, I had about 110 plants at various stages of vegetative growth, some were just small cuttings and some were about two months old and 2-3 feet.

No thing like that; frankly my business revolved around supplying psilocybe to shops in London; the skunk was just to keep my friends and I constantly stoned; I never sold a single ounce; I didn't need the money anyway.

A tray of shrooms cost me less than a £1 to grow and package; the shops sold them for £20 and gave me a £10; it was a fantastic business, but I am now considering Slavia since it is legal.

My psychological research continues, but in order to stay out of prison I am now a customer and unfortunately I have to purchase supplies, though I do have a large allotment and I am considering perhaps growing salvia and other legal psychoactives, but I am just digging it up at the moment

LL

Hiya LL,

Lux

Hiya LL, cool, I was just wondering. You live in London ? and you consider guerilla planting, yet you had no knowledge of, for example, weighting the tops down with clothes pegs to avoid plant stress through cutting tops off and and/or hiding the tops in the slender green areas in your locality

I also note you state lamps, lets say 2 x 400, the minimum. You have cuttings at all stages thus you have the next set of plants ready for flowering. So you must be getting at least 12oz each six weeks.
If not, pm me, you are jailbaiting yourself for no reason.

There are ways to train a planrt to grow - like humans.

You should have dug your allotment last October- added manure - and let the frost do the work.
cheers

[luciferhorus]

Hiya LL, cool, I was just wondering. You live in London ? and you consider guerilla planting, yet you had no knowledge of, for example, weighting the tops down with clothes pegs to avoid plant stress through cutting tops off and and/or hiding the tops in the slender green areas in your locality


I lived in London for 18 years, and I was prosecuted about three years ago; I'm now living near Glastonbury, but like yourself I am Scottish..

With regards to guerilla farming, we had plants in a one particular outdoor location but it was unsuccessful; I think we put them out before they were well established though, they really need to have a good root system before you plant them outside; Scotland is probably a much better location for this since most of Scotland is totally unpopulated. I may return there in the next year or so to work on a (legal) project and I'll probably be up in St. Andrews this week.

I also note you state lamps, lets say 2 x 400, the minimum. You have cuttings at all stages thus you have the next set of plants ready for flowering. So you must be getting at least 12oz each six weeks.
If not, pm me, you are jailbaiting yourself for no reason.

I am not growing now and I have already been prosecuted, but if your are worried for yourself pm me; it is quite legal to discuss growing; there are numerous Interet discussion boards on this subject. I had 2*600 watt lamps in the flower room on a 12 hour timer and in the vegetative room I simply had cheap flourescent lights on 24 hours a day, though 18 hrs is recommended. I was also at times moving one of the 600 watt lamps into the vegetative room during the 12 hours of darkness in the flowering room; this was to boost the vegetative growth.

Frankly I think that approximately an ounce or less is quite practical per plant if you use skunk # 1 since it grows very fast, and less on AK-47 which is a slow grower; it really depends on how long you vegetate them for; the Dutch use a sea of green method with very small plants but this is very dangerous over here since if you get prosecuted with 120 small flowering plants or 120 giants, it makes very little difference, though fortunately for me, they did not seem to make an issue of my cuttings and I was very luck to get away with 150 hours community service.

Mose people seem to grow the cuttings for a month and then flower them for two months; I was vegetating them for about 8 weeks and then 8 weeks of flowering which is why they were almost hitting the lamps.

Frankly if you are like me and you can easily smoke an ounce or more a week, even if you have large 10-12 large plants and the contents of a cuttings room to replace them, this is quite a lot of plants to have, just to feed your own habit, but if you are thinking of doing it commercially, you really need a lot of plants and the risks increase if you get caught; I have not been successful with guerilla farming, but in theory it is very low risk, and all you need is some flourescent lights, a cuttings tray and some tiny rooted plants for planting out; when growing outdoors however instead of a 4-8 week vegetative phase, this goes on for months so you end up with giant plants; I am not sure if they would flower well outside in Scotland though since when the longer nights of autum descend in Scotland, which is required for flowering, it can get very cold and with gloomy days. However based upon the Californian model of this method, you can safely have an amost unlimited number of plants in numerous locations and if you are caught, which is unlikely, it would be impossible to prove whether you planted them or just accidentally stumbled accross them, unless of course they found your cuttings. Further you since you can place them in numerous locations, you would most likely be found in the presence of only one plant or so and the rest would be hidden. Ideally you need a small GPS (global sattelite positioning device) in order to remember the lattitude and longitude of your plants, but of course if you are caught with those co-ordinates on you, you are fucked.

Frankly I never weighed my crop; since I was pinching off buds and microwaving them all the time.


There are ways to train a planrt to grow - like humans.

You should have dug your allotment last October- added manure - and let the frost do the work.
cheers

Yes, well this will be my first year with the allotment.

This thread is on 'Captialist Jesus' and frankly the issue of narcotics and illegal psychoactives is relevant to this.

I was out in Afghanistan in on the 'hippy trial' 1979 just before the Soviet's invaded; it was hashish heaven and a friendly country with friendly people. By the time the Taliban got hold of Afghanistan, although they like Muslims liked to smoke, they are quite anti-opium, so they forbade the growing of opium; I think that was their biggest mistake and one of the main reasons the Christian narco-terrorists invaded; now that the Christians run Afghanistan, it alegedly produced more that 90% of the world's heroin, and I can assure you it is not coming in in suitcases, but in military aircraft; the British and the Americans have a long history of this; I have heard that many more banks would go bust if this business stopped; that is why the Christians keep all this stuff illegal, since it pushes the price through the roof; heroin in Afghanistan is allegedly on $400 a kilo; that is Christianity for you.

LL

Lux

[newspaceman]

I lived in London for 18 years, and I was prosecuted about three years ago; I'm now living near Glastonbury, but like yourself I am Scottish..

We had plants in a one particular location but it was unsuccessful; I think we put them out before they were well established though, they really need to have a good root system before you plant them outside; Scotland is probably a much better location for this since most of Scotland is totally unpopulated. I may return there in the next year or so to work on a (legal) project and I'll probably be up in St. Andrews this week.





am not growing now and I have already been prosecuted, but if your are worreid for yourself pm me; it is quite legal to discuss growing; there are numerous Interet discussion baords on this subject. I had 2*600 watt lamps in the flower room on a 12 hour timer and in the vegetative room I simply had cheap flourescent lights on 24 hours a day, though 18 hrs is recommended.

Frankly I think that approximately an ounce or less is quite practical per plant if you use skunk # 1 since it grows very fast and less on AK-47 which is a slow grower; it really depends on how long you vegetate them for; the Dutch use a sea of green method with very small plants but this is very dangerous over here since if you get proscuted with 120 small flowering plants or 120 giants, it makes very little difference, though fortunately for me, they did not seem to make an issue of my cuttings.

Mose people seem to grow the cuttings for a month and then flower them for two months; I was vegetating them for about 8 weeks and then 8 weeks of flowering which is why they were almost hitting the lamps.

Frankly if you are like me and you can easily smoke an ounce or more a week, even if you have large 10-12 plants and the contents of a cuttings room, this is quite a lot of plants to have just to feed your own habit, but if you are thinking of doing it commercially, you really need a lot of plants and the risks increase if you get caught; I have not been successful with guerilla farming, but in theory it is very low risk, and all you need some flourescent lights, a cuttings tray and some tiny rooted plants.


Yes, well this will be my first year with the allotment.

This thread is on 'Captialist Jesus' and frankly the issue of narcotics and illegal psychoactives is relevant to this.

I was out in Afghanistan in on the 'hippy trial' 1979 just before the Soviet's invaded; it was hashish heaven and a friendly country with friendly people. By the time the Taliban got hold of Afghanistan, although they like Muslims liked to smoke, they are quite anti-opium, so they forbade the growing of opium; I think that was their biggest mistake and one of the main reasons the Christian narco-terrorists invaded; now that the Christians run Afghanistan, it alegedly produced more that 90% of the world's heroin, and I can assure you it is not coming in in suitcases, but in military aircraft; the British and the Americans have a long history of this; I have heard that many more banks would go bust if this business stopped; that is why the Christians keep all this stuff illegal, since it pushes the price through the roof; heroin in Afghanistan is allegedly on $400 a kilo; that is Christianity for you.

LL

Lux[/QUOTE]

mmm. you show yourself upin your own "light" lucifer. First, when were caught with the plants ?

Your root theory is just that. A wrong theory. No chance Scotland is better than down your way. "I simply had cheap flourescent lights on 24 hours a day, though 18 hrs is recommended. " again mmm. you obsiously dont have too much of a clue here, 24 hrs to root clones, 18 hrs, veg. Dif subjects, dif outcome, dif conditions.

Yeah, your basic requirements for G planting sound cool, but where in London ?


Frankly I never weighed my crop; since I was pinching off buds and microwaving them all the time.

Thus u r an idiot ? I am sure you will agree. The THC only becomes active once dry. The smoke is determined by the drying process.

You said:

This thread is on 'Captialist Jesus' and frankly the issue of narcotics and illegal psychoactives is relevant to this.

You brought it up, I take it you mean irrelevant. Freudian?

I grow vegetables now, perhaps you want to consider Jesus more .

cheers

[luciferhorus]

Communism and Capitalism some say will be moulded into one system and that's what the NWO one World system will be based on the third way, that's the synthesis of the two so called opposites (Communism and Capitalism) coming together as one system.

Both social experiments, two different systems/societies (created by the one Elite) Communism was said to suit the Elite's agenda of a One world Order/Government as a better means of controlling people in a Slaves Master system. Meaning - The new system/Society will be based more on a Communistic one rather than Capitalistic.

It seems to me that all the evidence points to a global capitalist police state where everyone is microchipped, as the agenda of the elites; this would be a Capitalist system.

A Communist system would be one without government or Capital; it is only the pseudo (false) Communists (the Marxists) who want an allegedly temporary 'proletarian dictatorship,' but the real Communists (the Anarchists) don't consider Marxists to be Communists, but rather 'State Capitalists' which frankly is the system suggested by David Icke, where only the government can issue money, not private banks; this would just be a 'palace revolution (a 'shuffling of power' from one group of Archons to another)' where the police state has the financial power as opposed to the private bankers; of course any head of state who tried to introduce this, would I believe meet with some accident or assassination, as has happened in the past.

The ruling elites are not Communists; they are evangelical, militant Capitalists; without the power of Capital and their puppet governments, their kingdom would fall.

Since this is the secret society forum, you have to also bear in mind that if there has been massive infiltration into the police, government and army; you may have a state terrorist collaborator who has sworn oaths to the Monarch on one hand, but to the hierarchy of the Masonic Grand Master on the other hand; simply 'shuffling' around and modifying the Capitalist system would not necessarily change this.

Ll

Lux

[thirdwave]

I am go to Avebury at least once a month with the Druids, Witches and assorted Satanists for the ritual and the ale drinking and conversation in the pub; sorry to have missed you and David, but when you are next in the Glastonbury area, send me a PTM (personal text message) and I'll be sure to drown you in some Somerset ale :-).

Love to you

Lux.

sounds cool! .. I actually have a few Avebury trips planned this summer (check meet ups thread) although not got any plans for a Glastonbury trip as yet... but if you are around Avebury then would be good to have a chat... and im always up for an Ale or two and I dig the subjects you have brought up... :)

[luciferhorus]

Your root theory is just that. A wrong theory. No chance Scotland is better than down your way. "I simply had cheap flourescent lights on 24 hours a day, though 18 hrs is recommended. " again mmm. you obsiously dont have too much of a clue here, 24 hrs to root clones, 18 hrs, veg. Dif subjects, dif outcome, dif conditions.


I didn't have a timer in my veg and clone room I just kept the lights on 24 / 7 and it turned out fine; you can take all the advice from experts in books but there is more than one way to skin a cat.

Yeah, your basic requirements for G planting sound cool, but where in London ?

This was about three years ago in Streatham. I would not have been caught, but my wife was so pissed off about my infidelities that she ratted on me to the big time drug dealers (i.e., the police).


Frankly I never weighed my crop; since I was pinching off buds and microwaving them all the time.

Thus u r an idiot ? I am sure you will agree. The THC only becomes active once dry. The smoke is determined by the drying process. .

I'm not really going to exchange abuse with you brother; I am just having a freindly chat about a common area of interest; personally I found that whether I dried the buds slowly or blasted them dry in a microwave it was still good bud; it is a commonly used method of drying though, it is not considered kosher by the 'experts,' but as I have said, there is more than one way to skin a cat.


You said:

This thread is on 'Captialist Jesus' and frankly the issue of narcotics and illegal psychoactives is relevant to this.

You brought it up, I take it you mean irrelevant. Freudian?

No I mean 'relevant' for a couple of reasons

1: The Anglo-American Christians narco-terrorists are the world's leading drug dealers; that is how the Christians finance their black military budgets, and that is, in my opinion, why such substances are kept illegal, since they don't want competition from us; during the prohibition of alchohol in the US, the mafia were very happy about that, but when it was legalised they were not at all happy; that is why I believe the legalisation of such substances will not occur.

2: There is along history of shamans using psychoactives; the story of the Devil appearing to Jesus smacks of the use of psychoactives. 'Manna' in the Torah also is described as a 'small white round substance which grew out of the morning dew and which went off quickly' and we all know what that it, and then there is the legendary 'soma' which is also a fungi.

Such substances can open a door of perception to another dimension, which of course is exactly what our economic and religious masters do not want; they want slaves trapped in the realm of the 5 senses.


I grow vegetables now, perhaps you want to consider Jesus more .

cheers

Yes I am also growing vegetables. There was once an emperor (I forget his name) who abdicated and retired to his country estate and remarked that he would rather grow cabbages than be the emperor of the world. I would rather grow weed and produce psychoactives, but as long as I remain in the UK, I think it to be too much of a risk...later.

LL

Lux

[luciferhorus]

"We are one nation. We are neither American Jews nor Soviet Jews, but only Jews!"

-Theodore Herzl
Founder of Modern Zionism



See my essay 'Is David Icke an anti-Semite?' on the history of the Israelites.

Essentially Herzl's god is an estate agent. Most of the current Israeli population of Israel are the descendents of Europeans (including Eastern Europe); they are not Semites, and with the exception of the political left, most of them are anti-Semites (i.e., the despise the Arabs, who 'are' Semites); if they wish to return to their ancestors 'homeland' it is certainly not Israel.

The current Prime Minister of Israel has blond hair for example and European features; if you look at the paintings depicting the slaves in Egypt on google images, you will not find any blond haired slaves; indeed many of them were 'Nubians' who were 'balck.'

The Hertzl brand of Zionism is a very recent invention and is based upon an historical fallacy; there is simply no such thing as a Jewish race; it is cultural tradition based upon an ancient and outdated religion.

Anyone who was actually a genetic descendent of the slaves liberated in the alleged African slave revolution would 'not' have European features and would most likely experience racial descrimination in Israel, just as the Ethiopian Jews (who have dark skin and are Semites) have experienced; indeed Ethiopia has a history of Israelite kings from Solomon's son Menelik (circa 900BC) to Selassie, and yet among the descendents of European Jews who were recent converts there were those who did not consider the Semitic Ethiopian Jews to be truly Jewish.

This situation is very much like the Chrsitian problem where the Christian Capitalist state terrorists claim to represent the alleged anti-capitalist, Jesus; similarly with Zionism; it is new political movement of those who were allegedly the inheritors of the tradition of Moses and the prophets, but frankly 'African slave revolution' and the tradition of prophets crying out against tyrant oppressors has nothing to do with Hertzl's brand of Zionism; on the contrary; it represents the anti-thesis of that.

LL


Lux

[lightgiver]

See my essay 'Is David Icke an anti-Semite?' on the history of the Israelites.

Essentially Herzl's god is an estate agent. Most of the current Israeli population of Israel are the descendents of Europeans (including Eastern Europe); they are not Semites, and with the exception of the political left, most of them are anti-Semites (i.e., the despise the Arabs, who 'are' Semites); if they wish to return to their ancestors 'homeland' it is certainly not Israel.

The current Prime Minister of Israel has blond hair for example and European features; if you look at the paintings depicting the slaves in Egypt on google images, you will not find any blond haired slaves; indeed many of them were 'Nubians' who were 'balck.'

The Hertzl brand of Zionism is a very recent invention and is based upon an historical fallacy; there is simply no such thing as a Jewish race; it is cultural tradition based upon an ancient and outdated religion.

Anyone who was actually a genetic descendent of the slaves liberated in the alleged African slave revolution would 'not' have European features and would most likely experience racial descrimination in Israel, just as the Ethiopian Jews (who have dark skin and are Semites) have experienced; indeed Ethiopia has a history of Israelite kings from Solomon's son Menelik (circa 900BC) to Selassie, and yet among the descendents of European Jews who were recent converts there were those who did not consider the Semitic Ethiopian Jews to be truly Jewish.

This situation is very much like the Chrsitian problem where the Christian Capitalist state terrorists claim to represent the alleged anti-capitalist, Jesus; similarly with Zionism; it is new political movement of those who were allegedly the inheritors of the tradition of Moses and the prophets, but frankly 'African slave revolution' and the tradition of prophets crying out against tyrant oppressors has nothing to do with Hertzl's brand of Zionism; on the contrary; it represents the anti-thesis of that.

LL


Lux

There is no Christian,Islam or any other religion problem,there is a hatred problem.

You cannot blame a label for the evil of people.

There are many good religious followers from all walks of faith.

You cannot blame the majority for the acts of the minority.

Its time for people to grow up and mature.

[thirdwave]

There is no Christian,Islam or any other religion problem.


lol!!!

classic.

[luciferhorus]

There is no Christian,Islam or any other religion problem,there is a hatred problem.

You cannot blame a label for the evil of people.


There are many good religious followers from all walks of faith.


.


When you say a 'good' religious follower, you are making a moral (a discernment of good and evil) judgement just as I do when I judge Christianity as generally a phenomenon of evil.

I have pointed out that there are Anarchist Christians, Marxist Christians and various flavours of Liberation Theologians (Communist Christians), however in the 'Capitalist First World' this is very much a minority position and thus when I refer to Christianity as a whole this is generally a Capitalist faith, and thus since I consider Capitalism to be the problem in the world I cannot define such individuals as 'good,' since in the moral sense and from an anti-Capitalist persepctive there is no such a thing as a 'good Capitalist' only an effective Capitalist (like an effective murderer, etc).

Hypnotised and Indoctrinated.

I am sure that we would all symathise with the children who grew up in the orphanages of Nazi Germany and who were raised to consider Hitler their father, we could really consider them to be the victims of hypnosis and indoctrination who probably genuinely believed that Hitler was 'good;' never the less we must judge tham as 'evil' if we are coming from an anti-Nazi position.

Similarly with the Christian Capitalists; many of them are simply the victims of religious hypnosis, but we cannot suspend judgement on them just because of that.

Generally I try to use the term Christian Capitalism instead of Christianity, which encompasses a wide variety of flavours.

By 'Christian Capitalists' I do not refer simply to those who live in Capitalism, since we all live in Capitalism, but to those who by their ideology represent the anti-thesis of the anti-Capitalist Jesus and who are not anti-Capitalist activists.





There are many good religious followers from all walks of faith.


Generally the Anarchist position is that all forms of organised religion are malevolent; I cannot think of a single organised religion which I would consider 'good' by anti-Capitalist, anti-statist definition.


You cannot blame the majority for the acts of the minority.


Well take Hinduism for example; there are a billion of them who have hypnotised and indoctrinated to believe in a racist, human sacrifice cultist faith which justifies the existence of economic elties; there are more than a billion Musilims which is the religion of a slave trader and is a misogynistic (woman hating) Capitalist faith. We have alread discussed the billion Christians; we simply do not need these religions; their effect on humanity is detrimental; by no means whatsoever are the 'majority' anti-Capitalists, anti-statists, anti-religionists etc; on the contrary. This is the problem with mass hypnosis (organised religion), it affects the 'majority,' which is why it is called 'mass hypnosis' and not minority hypnosis; only if the majority of Christians were anti-Capitalists, anti-statists and anti-religionists (i.e., 'good') could I agree with you, but it is simply not the case.



Its time for people to grow up and mature.


For a person to become a free and progressive thinker and to be considered 'mature' the person has to throw off the slave morality of organised religion.

I tend to be rather judgemental in my debates with the Christian Capitalists, but frankly I am concerned for them; I do conisder most of them to be victims of hypnosis and I seek to awaken them and I cannot do that by flattering them and agreeing with them; on the contrary.


LL

Lux


_____________



Hypnosis 101. For Children

On Religion as Mass Hypnosis. How hypnosis works. On dehypnosis.


On de-hypnosis using the hypnotic words ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’

By Lucifer
For Revolution in all the World.

http://www.luciferia.tv/animation/A.gif

Dear children of the world.

When we can control the education of the children, we can control the destiny of the nation ...Hitler.


Language, Organised Religion and Hypnosis

Love and Lust.

A man who wishes to seduce a woman who is seeking ’Love’ will often use hypnotic keywords related to ’Love’ and to the woman’s natural emotional desires to be in a relationship, to be loved, to be worshiped, etc. However his feelings may not be genuine; he may simply be attempting to hypnotise the woman.

Similarly with organised religion. Few hypnotists (priests) would ever claim to be ’evil’ and to offer ’eternal hell’ in return for devotion; their strategy is that of hypnosis, by using ’hypnotic keywords’ relating to the victims desire to reject ’evil (by the definition of the priest) and to attain ’Heaven’ in the afterlife.

So it was with the ’Serpent (a metaphor for the Egyptian priesthood)’in Eden; he did not hypnotise Eve by seducing her with ’evil, ’ but rather with ’enlightenment;’ similarly all religionists seduce their victims with the mantras of ’good, ’ ’love, ’ heaven, ’ ’enlightenment, ’ etc.

Particularly with children and the psychologically vulnerable, being constantly exposed to religious sophistry (the lie of language) they can become convinced that a priest represents ’goodness, ’ ’heaven, ’ ’love, ’ etc., just as it is with the example of the man who uses the language of seduction on a woman.

Let us consider the example of hypnotised Christians.

The ‘born again’ experience is common in many faiths and is a common experience which most users of psychoactives would be familiar with.
From a general spiritualist point of view, this could be interpreted as ‘communion with the gods (ancestors), ’ however if this is the case with ‘born again Christians’ it is clearly not Jesus whom they are communing with, since if they were, they would end up as anti-Capitalists, whereas born again Christians seem in general to be evangelical Capitalists; many even consider George Bush (who has very little in common with the historical Jesus) to be a ‘man of God’

At some point these slaves of hypnosis have been subjected to the repetitive use of hypnotic key words.

Let us say that there is a professional hypnotist (i.e., a member of the clergy) who has absolutely nothing in common with the historical Jesus.
Let us say that this person is a Capitalist and a religious hypocrite and during a sermon in a hypnotic temple (church), the hypnotist repeats over and over, the following keywords.

‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ Let me just say that again: ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’
‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’<img

Now the victims of hypnosis (the congregation) associate the Capitalist religious hypocrite with a first century Iasraelite Communist / anti-propertyist and yet the victim now judges the world through the eyes of the Capitalist hypnotist.

If the hypnotist is a Capitalist and a religious hypocrite, an anti-Communist and a supporter of militant evangelical world Capitalist revolution, but uses the mantra of ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven, ’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’, he should be able to attract other Capitalists and religious hypocrites to his cult and to make them pay for the hypnosis. Eventually the victims may even come to believe that they will go to ‘Heaven’ in the afterlife with other Capitalists and religious hypocrites and that the economic victims of the Capitalists (the poor) are unsaved individuals who will end up in hell, since they were not able to be hypnotised by a Capitalist religious hypocrite.

Beware of the mantra of ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’

Say these words many times today.

Teach them to your children that they may never be hypnotised by a Christian.

Dehypnosis through hypnotic keywords

The dehypnotist will ideally to be able to use the same terms ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven, ’ as expertly as the victim’s hypnotist.

‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’Now if I do this every day. Soon when I speak, some of you might even associate me with

‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’


The Art of Propaganda is the first stage of war.

None are free till all are free.

By Lucifer
For Anarchist Communism.

http://www.luciferia.tv/animation/A.gif

[luciferhorus]

sounds cool! .. I actually have a few Avebury trips planned this summer (check meet ups thread) .......but if you are around Avebury then would be good to have a chat... and im always up for an Ale or two and I dig the subjects you have brought up... :)

Yes I see that there is another Avebury meetup in June, which is not too far away.

I do intend to be there. Avesbury's one and only pub however is generally full of bikers and pagans at the weekends; how all those people are going to fit in one pub I have no idea.

Generally the pub is also used for Pagan Federation moots and Druid ale drinking sessions after their rituals; my girlfriend goes for all many the Druid rites; but frankly I prefer socialising and conversing in the pub.

I have read Icke's books over the years and watched almost all his videos and am very familiar with his positions, so I am really more interested in putting names to faces on the forum.

I have a tendency to be rather brutal in my debates, since I am used to debating my ideological enemies and with allies with whom I have a similar worldview there is not much to debate really, but I am gentle soul really :-).

LL

Lux

[thirdwave]

Yes I see that there is another Avebury meetup in June, which is not too far away.

I do intend to be there. Avesbury's one and only pub however is generally full of bikers and pagans at the weekends; how all those people are going to fit in one pub I have no idea.

Generally the pub is also used for Pagan Federation moots and Druid ale drinking sessions after their rituals; my girlfriend goes for all many the Druid rites; but frankly I prefer socialising and conversing in the pub.

I have read Icke's books over the years and watched almost all his videos and am very familiar with his positions, so I am really more interested in putting names to faces on the forum.

I have a tendency to be rather brutal in my debates, since I am used to debating my ideological enemies and with allies with whom I have a similar worldview there is not much to debate really, but I am gentle soul really :-).

LL

Lux

nothing wrong with passion... I don't really have many rules to my outlooks.. as long as decent and logical ethics are a key factor then its all good with me.

I will droip you a PM when I know I will be about..

[newspaceman]

LL, sorry about the "idiot" quote, I just feel that if you take the trouble to grow a plant for say 10 weeks, you are better waiting another week for it to dry properly. Microwaving is not the best way although it works, obviously. The smoke is no where as near as good therefore: not such a cool J LL
I wont get bogged down on growing plants, your philosophies interest me although I am not in agreement with them, the new world order (for want of a better phrase) is communist based but with the usual Animal Farm logic of some being more equal than others.

Anyway, I'm going back to the cabbages.

cheers, no offences meant.

brian

[eternal_spirit]

See my essay 'Is David Icke an anti-Semite?' on the history of the Israelites.

Essentially Herzl's god is an estate agent. Most of the current Israeli population of Israel are the descendents of Europeans (including Eastern Europe); they are not Semites, and with the exception of the political left, most of them are anti-Semites (i.e., the despise the Arabs, who 'are' Semites); if they wish to return to their ancestors 'homeland' it is certainly not Israel.

The current Prime Minister of Israel has blond hair for example and European features; if you look at the paintings depicting the slaves in Egypt on google images, you will not find any blond haired slaves; indeed many of them were 'Nubians' who were 'balck.'

It's a mix of peoples.
You appear to be re-using the old argument about the European people - European Jews are descended from the ancient Jews of Palestine - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khazars#DNA_Evidence

And

The following is a list of ancient Semitic peoples.
Akkadians — appear 4th millennium BC and amalgamate with non-Semitic Mesopotamian (Sumerian) populations into the Assyrians and Babylonians of the late Bronze Age[1][2]
Assyrians (Aššūrāyu) — 27th century BC[3]
Babylonians — 18th century BC[citation needed]
Chaldeans (Kaldu) — 8th to 6th c. BC[4][5]
Eblaites — 23rd century BC
Akhlames 14th century[6]
Aramaeans — 16th to 8th century BC[7][8]
Ugarites, 14th to 12th centuries BC
Canaanite language speaking nations of the early Iron Age:
Amorites
Ammonites
Edomites
Hebrews — founded the kingdom of Israel and Judah, the remnants of which became the Jews
Moabites
Phoenicians — founded Mediterranean colonies including Carthage
Old South Arabian speaking peoples
Sabaeans of Yemen — 9th to 1st c. BC
Aksumites — 4th c. BC to 7th c. AD
Arabs, Old North Arabian speaking Bedouins
Lihyanites — 6th to 1st c. BC
Thamud people — 2nd to 5th c. AD
Ghassanids — 3rd to 7th c. AD
Nabataeans — adopted Arabic in the 4th century AD
The Hertzl brand of Zionism is a very recent invention and is based upon an historical fallacy; there is simply no such thing as a Jewish race; it is cultural tradition based upon an ancient and outdated religion.
Herzl was merely the modern incarnation of Zionism.
Judaism is a religion true, but some say there is a "Elite racial element" at the top. And many Jews do think they are superior. I could pull out endless quotes to show this.

Isaiah 2.2, 3b:
"And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it...For out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem."

Isaiah 34.8:
"For it is the day of the LORD's vengeance, and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion."
Zionism goes back for thousands of years, as the quotes from Isaiah prove.

Anyone who was actually a genetic descendent of the slaves liberated in the alleged African slave revolution would 'not' have European features and would most likely experience racial descrimination in Israel, just as the Ethiopian Jews (who have dark skin and are Semites) have experienced; indeed Ethiopia has a history of Israelite kings from Solomon's son Menelik (circa 900BC) to Selassie, and yet among the descendents of European Jews who were recent converts there were those who did not consider the Semitic Ethiopian Jews to be truly Jewish.

This situation is very much like the Chrsitian problem where the Christian Capitalist state terrorists claim to represent the alleged anti-capitalist, Jesus; similarly with Zionism; it is new political movement of those who were allegedly the inheritors of the tradition of Moses and the prophets, but frankly 'African slave revolution' and the tradition of prophets crying out against tyrant oppressors has nothing to do with Hertzl's brand of Zionism; on the contrary; it represents the anti-thesis of that.

LL


Lux

I have read these theories before. Some black Africans claim they are of the true Tribes of Israel, but so do so many other people's, who want to claim they are Biblical descendants of some royal holy bloodlines. (David Solomon etc) Many now agree these characters where/are all "fictional."

I'm almost certain Selassie was believed to be Christ reincarnated by his followers - Rastafarianism is basically an other branch/interpretation of Judaic Christianity (Circumcision make a Covenant with their God same as the other Jews and Muslims Yahweh aka Jehova/Yehovah aka Allah.

Like other Jews they also believe they where exiled and kept in Slavery, Babylonian exile (the Biblical story)

Although they still refer to the present Elite and the system as Babylonian, bit like Icke calls part of the Elite "Babylonian Brotherhood"

Gotta like their interpretation of some Biblical texts :D


Ganja
Cannabis For many Rastas, smoking cannabis (known as ganja, marijuana, herb, kali, or lamb's bread) is a spiritual act, often accompanied by Bible study; they consider it a sacrament that cleans the body and mind, exalts the consciousness, facilitates peacefulness, and brings them closer to Jah. The burning of the herb is often said to be essential "for it will sting in the hearts of those that promote and perform evil and wrongs." Many believe that cannabis originated in Africa, and that it is a part of their African culture that they are reclaiming. It is sometimes also referred to as "the healing of the nation", a phraseology adapted from Revelation 22:2.
They are not surprised that it is illegal, seeing it as a powerful substance that opens people's minds to the truth — something the Babylon system, they reason, clearly does not want. They contrast their herb to liquor, which they feel makes people stupid, and is not a part of African culture. While there is a clear belief in the beneficial qualities of cannabis, it is not compulsory to use it, and there are Rastas who do not do so. Dreadlocked mystics, often ascetic, known as the sadhus, fhave smoked cannabis in India for centuries. According to many Rastas, the illegality of cannabis in many nations is evidence that the Persecution of Rastafari is a reality. The migration of many thousands of Indian Hindus to the Caribbean in the 20th century may have brought this culture to Jamaica.

They believe that the smoking of cannabis enjoys Biblical sanction and is an aid to meditation and religious observance.
Among Biblical verses Rastas believe justify the use of cannabis:
Genesis 1:11 "And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so."
Genesis 3:18 "... thou shalt eat the herb of the field."
Proverbs 15:17 "Better is a dinner of herbs where love is, than a stalled ox and hatred therewith."
Psalms 104:14 "He causeth the grass to grow for the cattle, and herb for the service of man."

According to Rastafarian and other scholars, the etymology of the word "cannabis" and similar terms in all the languages of the Near East may be traced to the Hebrew qaneh bosm קנה-בשם that is one of the herbs God commands Moses to include in his preparation of sacred anointing perfume in Exodus 30:23; the Hebrew term also appears in Isaiah 43:24; Jeremiah 6:20; Ezekiel 27:19; and Song of Songs 4:14. Deuterocanonical and canonical references to the patriarchs Adam, Noah, Abraham and Moses "burning incense before the Lord" are also applied, and many Rastas today refer to cannabis by the term ishence — a slightly changed form of the English word "incense". It is also said that cannabis was the first plant to grow on King Solomon's grave.

In 1998, then-Attorney General of the United States Janet Reno, though not a judge, opined that Rastafari do not have the religious right to smoke ganja in violation of the United States' drug laws. The position is the same in the United Kingdom, where, in the Court of Appeal case of R. v. Taylor [2002] 1 Cr. App. R. 37, it was held that the UK's prohibition on cannabis use did not contravene the right to freedom of religion conferred under the Convention for the Protection of Human Rights and Fundamental Freedoms.

http://houseofjahrisingsun.com

[eternal_spirit]

As William Guy Carr points out in Pawns in the Game, both Oliver Cromwell and William of Orange were funded by Jewish bankers. The English Revolution (1649) was the first in a series of revolutions designed to give them world hegemony. The establishment of the Bank of England by William in 1694 was the next crucial step. Behind the facade, England has been a "Jewish" state for over 300 years. (pp.20-24)

The Jewish banking families made it a practice to marry their female offspring to spendthrift European aristocrats. In Jewish law, the mixed offspring of a Jewish mother is Jewish. (The male heirs marry Jews although the Victor and Jacob Rothschild are exceptions .)

For example, in 1878 Hannah Rothschild married Lord Rosebery. who later became Prime Minister. In 1922 Louis Mountbatten, the uncle of Prince Philip and cousin of the Queen married the granddaughter of Jewish banker Ernest Cassel, one of the wealthiest men in the world. Winston Churchill's mother, Jenny (Jacobson) Jerome, was Jewish. By the beginning of the 1900s, there were very few English aristocrat families left that hadn't intermarried with Jews.

It was said that, when they visited the Continent, Europeans were surprised to see Jewish looking persons with English titles and accents.

According to L.G. Pine, the Editor of Burke's Peerage , Jews "have made themselves so closely connected with the British peerage that the two classes are unlikely to suffer loss which is not mutual. So closely linked are the Jews and the lords that a blow against the Jews in this country would not be possible without injuring the aristocracy also." (Tales of the British Aristocracy1957, p.219.)

If they aren't Jewish by intermarriage, many European aristocrats consider themselves descendents of Biblical Hebrews. The Hapsburgs are related by marriage to the Merovingians who claim to be descendents of the Tribe of Benjamin.

[luciferhorus]

It's a mix of peoples.
You appear to be re-using the old argument about the European people - European Jews are descended from the ancient Jews of Palestine - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khazars#DNA_Evidence



I have heard this DNA argument so many times before and it is simply 'not' a scientific argument for the following reasons.

1: If we go back 2000 years, for example there was an Israelite diaspora throughout the medditeranean which was 'not' inclusive but rather evangelical and which sought to convert the Romans, Greeks etc; once these converts became 'Israelites' they would often intermarry with those of Israelite descent (who were never a singular race, never exclusively dscendents of Abraham, but African slaves from various parts of North Africa and what we would now call the Middle East).

2: Abraham was anyway allegedly 'not' the forefather of a race; his homeland was allegedly Ur near the site of Ancient Babylon (i.e., he was an Iraqi), where his father was an idol maker, and we do not know the racial background of his wife Sarah and her female slave with whom he allegedly had children; however there is nothing to suggest that he was racially unique among all Iraqis. Never the less if you were to suggest to a modern Jew that the 'Iraqis' are the master race, they would not accept this, since they do not consider themselves the descendent of an Iraqi, but of some kind of new mythical race created by their racist god; it is simply an ahistorical non-scientific belief.

3: If you consider most African Americans or Jamaicans, very few of them bear resemblance to native Africans; this is mostly because many of the female slaves were raped and used as 'harems' by their white slavemasters whose forfathers were from numerous parts of Europe; i.e., they are not a well defined 'race' but rather the product of interbreeding; similarly with the Israelites who were African slaves and and not a 'unique' race.

4: In the Article you have cited above it is clear that the Khazars were racially mixed, with light and dark skinned Khazars; when you have an entire nation of racially mixed people which converts to the Israelite faith, and then later in history to define them as a singular race is simply Anachronistic (out of historical context).

5: Linguistically to refer to the Jews as a 'race' is simply the redefined private langauge of 'Orwellian Newspeak' since there are Jews of African, Semitic and European appearance.

6: The evidence of numerous depictions of African slaves in the artwork of ancient Egypt shows that the slaves were not of a singular and clearly defined race.

7: The vast majority of European Jews are for obvious reasons of European appearance, some with blond hair; that there has been some interbreeding in the past within their community with individuals whose ancestors were from the Middle East is highly likely, however this is also true for many citizens of France, Italy, Spanish and other areas of the Northern mediteranean and is thought to originate from a number of causes including the invasion of the Moors (who were dark skinned Africans) and the fact of ancient trade relationships with North Africans such as the Egyptians, Moroccans, etc.

8: Slavery: slavery being common in the ancient world, if one were a freed slave from Africa or the Middle East in Rome or Greece for example, it is quite natural to expect their genes to permeate Europeans.

In general the Mediteranean had numerous ports for trading; all the nations around the Mediteranean show evidence of interbreeding between the nations.

One race, the human race.

Frankly I find all these 'master race' and 'chosen people' arguments offensive; anyone who considers their 'race (genetics / appearance) to be superior and people of other races / appearance to be inferior is not worthy of life in my judgement.'


Herzl was merely the modern incarnation of Zionism.
Judaism is a religion true, but some say there is a "Elite racial element" at the top. And many Jews do think they are superior. I could pull out endless quotes to show this.

Zion was the 'promised land where liberated slaves of the African slave revolution could be free;' that is not the agenda of either Christendom nor modern Judaism; on the contrary they seek the economic exploitation of Africa; with regards to the belief that the Jews are a superior race, of course this is the case for many, but it is a non historical myth based upon a lie.

I'm almost certain Selassie was believed to be Christ reincarnated by his followers - Rastafarianism is basically an other branch/interpretation of Judaic Christianity (Circumcision make a Covenant with their God same as the other Jews and Muslims Yahweh aka Jehova/Yehovah aka Allah.

Like other Jews they also believe they where exiled and kept in Slavery, Babylonian exile (the Biblical story)

Although they still refer to the present Elite and the system as Babylonian, bit like Icke calls part of the Elite "Babylonian Brotherhood"

Yes I have been hanging out in London with the Rasta's for years; I am quite well aware of their beliefs; frankly Sellasie is the incarnation of God as far as they are concerned, but despite such a ridiculous belief their perspective on the world is very similar to Icke's; in fact it was a Rastafaraian who first lent my one of Icke's books many years ago; they are probably among David Icke's biggest fans.


With regards to you comments on ganja, you are entirely correct in my view and I have little to add. It is a 'gnostic' sacrament (from sacre and mentis; i.e., sacred mind) which is exactly what our economic masters do not want in their slaves; though frankly many Masons consider themselves 'gnostics' despite representing the anti-thesis of Gnosticism; they are 'Capitalists' and their god the god of Capital, not gnosis (knowledge, but 'inner spiritual shamanic' knowledge).

LL

Lux

[luciferhorus]

LL, sorry about the "idiot" quote, I just feel that if you take the trouble to grow a plant for say 10 weeks, you are better waiting another week for it to dry properly. Microwaving is not the best way although it works, obviously. The smoke is no where as near as good therefore: not such a cool J LL


Yes no problem; but if you don't have any weed to smoke and you have a plant, you can either microwave it in mnutes or wait a week for it to dry; you must a very patient person, whereas I am very much a stoner.


I wont get bogged down on growing plants, your philosophies interest me although I am not in agreement with them, the new world order (for want of a better phrase) is communist based but with the usual Animal Farm logic of some being more equal than others.


Yes I have heard this argument so many times before; Orwell was a Communist who fought with the Communists as a volunteer in the Spanish Civil War against the Franco's Christian fascism; he was also a member of the Independent Labour Party (I.L.P) which was run by a late relative of mine who was probably Scotland's most famous Communist, James Maxton.

'Animal Farm (a critique of Stalinism) and '1984 (the future of Capitalism)' were both written by a Communist (Orwell) and are not anti-Communist tales.

The 'New World Order' agenda is for a global police state, one world bank and government and a world where everyone is microchipped; it is a Capitalist agenda, not a Communist agenda.

The Communist agenda seeks a world of universal economic equality, the eradication of government, all forms of Capital and private property (as in a 'communue' where evrything is shared) and all forms of organised religion; the exception to this is the Marxists (who are pseudo-Communists; i.e., 'false' or rather non-Communists) who wish for state Capitalism and a police state; thus the Communist agenda represents the exact opposite of the agenda of the NWO and the Masonic and Christian Capitalists / propertyists /statists.

I have deal with the issue of state terrorist infiltration in Communist organsations and states in the essay below.

LL

Lux

________________


Dear Alex Jones. On Christian Capitalism: Critique and Counterproposal.
____________________


Lucifer


Aeon of Lucifer 2007. The 1000 Year revolution of Light.
For Anarchist Commmunism (stateless kibbutzism / collectivism).

______________________


Dear Alex

I was watching your show last week where you stated that when you see someone with a Communist flag that you want to beat them up. I’d also like to respond to your allegations that the state terrorists infiltrate and utilise Anarchist groups in order to initiate violence.

Firstly it is without a doubt that the state terrorists infiltrate political organisations; the Anarchist group ‘Class War’ in the UK, for example recently admitted that one of their members had been working for the military intelligence. This is the problem with ‘any’ political organisation and it is certainly not exclusive to the political Left.

The commonality of the critique against Capitalist state terrorism and the precedent of pre-Nazi Germany.

If you consider the ‘critiques’ of the current state terrorist elites, there is a general commonality among Leftists, Muslims, and even those of the political right such as yourself, Ron Paul and the various flavours of Capitalist Christians against the New World Order. We all consider the same evidence and the same empirical history of Anglo-American-Israeli state terrorism and thus our common ‘critique is essentially the same. If we consider Germany in the 1920’s you may notice that the critiques of the German economic elites by the Nazis and the various sects of Communists were also quite similar; both the radical Left and Right held that the country was being held to ransom by a small group of ‘banksters,’ both the radical left and the right sought in initiate a revolution against them, both claimed that they sought to better the lives of the working people; however the Left and Right had a variety of counterproposals.

The counterproposal. The importance of political correctness (correct politics).

If we do not have a counterproposal which represents correct politics, then even were there to be a revolution tomorrow, the resulting regime may lead to even greater suffering and carnage. If you are overcome with violent thoughts when you see someone with a Communist flag, then might I assume that should a person such as yourself or your admirers ever gain political power, the consequences for Cuba, Venezuela and Columbia, all of which have experienced a sharp turn to the Left would not be promising.

Pseudo Anti-Capitalism.

The problem with many alleged Marxists is that they are simply not anti-Capitalist, but rather state Capitalist; Marx suggested the closure of all banks and the introduction of a temporary system of rationing’ via labour vouchers (i.e., one hours labour = one labour voucher), whereas in the first ‘Marxist’ revolution, Lenin, funded by international bankers, merely continued to issue money, albeit via the state bank; this is simply not Marxism and it is not anti-Capitalism (anti-monetarism / anti-propertyism).

Christianity.

I do note that that you often refer to yourself as a Christian on the one hand, and yet on the other hand, you are an evangelical Capitalist, committed not to the eradication of Capital, but merely its reformation. This is quite simply hypocritical. I notice that the David Rothschild recently accused you having shares in oil companies; that is a trivial matter in my mind; even those committed to the eradication of Capital, must live in a Capitalist world and we must generate wealth that can be used in the creation of conditions for revolution; however the ‘Jesus’ issue is far from trivial, since it is a matter of mass hypnosis. To the Anarchist Christians (I am an evangelical anti-Christian by the way), Jesus is a figure, whom stripped of the mythology, miracles and astro-theology, still leaves an historical archetype who cried out against the rich, the religious establishment, the lawyers and tax collectors of his age and who stated ‘Carry neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses, neither two robes, neither shoes, nor yet a staff. Mt 10’ and 'And every one that hears these sayings of mine, and does them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, who built his house upon the sand’ (Mt. 7) Since ‘carry no money’ is clearly an anti-capitalist (non-monetarist) position and you are an evangelical Capitalist, might I suggest that you cease and desist from claiming to be a follower of Jesus since it not only gives offence to the memory of the dead (i.e., Jesus) and other anti-Capitalist historical archetypes of his ilk, Anarchist Christians and liberation theologians, and instead you could perhaps offer eternal salvation in the name of Adam Smith or some other Capitalist like yourself; it would at least be honest.

The biblical prophecies of Judgement Day and Armageddon.

What is prophesied is an age where the revolutionary vanguard (the righteous of Israel) and the armies of 200 million shall bring about a Day of Judgement where the wheat will be separated from the chaff (i.e., the rich and the religious hypocrites / idolaters etc), and the chaff will be cast into the fires of the Final Holocaust (i.e., they shall be burnt), and that this wil lbe part of the end result of a global war in which most of the world’s population will die, where the armies of the Messiah will in an apocalyptic military struggle defeat the armies of the anti-Messiah, who is described as a person of great wealth with great and mighty armies. After this there will allegedly be a 1000 year agricultural revolution (swords to ploughshares) and the creation of the City of Light (the New Jerusalem) where there shall be no Temples (churches, mosques, synagogues etc) and no poverty, and where all past the idolatry (such as Christianity) and the worship of mammon (Capitalism) shall cease to exist.

City of Light.

When you fly over Holland at night, it looks like the City of Light; one sees miles of greenhouses lit up at night by artificial sunlight. You will see this also in the Kibbutz farms in the deserts of Israel and in the deserts of Saudi Arabia; this is modern agricultural revolution; this is what we can do; with poly-house farming, hydroponics and aeroponics, we could feed the world from a tiny corner of the Sahara the size of Texas with four harvests a year and up to 10 tons of crop per acre instead of two. The technology for the non-miracle of the feeding of the 6 billion is with us; the problem is Capitalism and statism.

The financing of Communist and Capitalist revolutions. Comparisons between Statist Communism and Christianity.

While I concede that international Capital has often been behind both forms of revolution, particularly in the case of Lenin and Hitler, if you conclude from this that all Communists are simply tools of international Capital, this argument could just as easily be taken with regards to Capitalist revolution. In Russia, the Bolsheviks were only one group of Communists among many, however it was they who managed to raise millions of dollars from American Capitalists in order to finance their revolution; much to the detriment of other Communist groups in Russia. Just as you utilise the memory of the anti-Capitalist Jesus in order to propagate Capitalism, so too did the Bolsheviks use the slogans of Communism to propagate state Capitalism.

Non-monetarist, non statist collectivism (i.e., Anarcho-Communism or ‘Kibbutzism’) is not a political party; it is an idea which could never be successfully utilised by a state since it demands non-statism, nor could it be successfully utilised by Capitalists since it demands non-monetarism and non-propertyism (i.e., collectivism). There are of course a tiny minority among Anarchists who are Anarcho-Capitalists, whose ideology is little more than a defintion of ‘organised crime’ without government intervention and with a private police force to protect the criminals (the Capitalists), however that is a counterproposal to Capitalist state terrorism that would be little different to living under the rule of the mafia in Russia.

Capitalism cannot be reformed; it must be abolished.

As long as Capital exists, there will be corruption and there will be bribery and there will be an economic and military elite; some will have an abundance and others will starve. That hardly accords with the words of your anti-monetarist saviour Jesus. Allegedly Jesus held that the rich and the religious hypocrites will be tortured by demons in hell; that what we bind on earth, we bind in eternity. Since you seem to devote most of your time, and I assume a great deal of financial resources, to attacking the state terrorists, I don’t have a problem with you owning shares in oil companies or amassing wealth, since you clearly use your wealth to attack the enemies of the world’s proletariat, but religious hypocrisy is another matter, since your counterproposal to Capitalism (reformed Capitalism) is simply not anti-Capitalism or non-Capitalism, which was the position taken by the anti-Capitalist Israelite whom many Americans seem to worship as an object of idolatry and then propagate the anti-thesis of his teachings. Shame.

Regards

Lucifer

On Internet psy-op sites and the infiltration of anti-Capitalist organisations by the Intelligence agencies.

________________

A number of facts.
Just to cite one example, Andy Bryant of the London based Anarchist 'Class War' was an MI6 agent; 'Class War investigated and eventually admitted this to be true (http://www.bluegreenearth.us/archive/article/2005/booth-1-2005.html)

To cite another example, a British television documentary a few years back proved beyond all reasonable doubt that the Socialist Worker's Party (SWP), Britain's largest Marxist political party was run for many years by an individual who was on the payroll of MI6. According to David Shayler there are still SWP activists who are on the payroll of MI6 and further Shayler alleges that there are numerous journalists in the mass media who are on the MI5 payroll.

According to MI6 officer Richard Tomlinson, the military intelligence services devotes considerable resources to lobbying its position in Whitehall, and has a specialised department whose role is to spin-doctor the media by wining and dining favoured journalists and editors.
(see http://www.variant.randomstate.org/7texts/Robin_Ramsay.html)

The view that Anglo-American state terrorist intelligence services have numerous paid employees within the mass media is so well testified to that I think it needs to be considered to be a fact.

There are many suspicious anti-Capitalist sites which are generally 'anti' the 911 truth movement (such as , and http://paulstott.typepad.com/911cultwatch/ and http://www.borderland.co.uk/, all run by the same person. Se allso even the UK Anarchist Federation's position on 911 which is a defense of the government's position (see http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=22315714&blogID=186135645&MyToken=eddd892b-c305-4753-8a0d-e5219b894e78

I am totally convinced by the argument and evidence that the view that New York 911, London 7/7, and even many of the so called British IRA bombings (google 'operation Gladio’) were black ops by the military, however there are elements within the Anarchist movement who consider this to be a conspiracy theory and spend a great deal of energy slagging off anyone who challenges the 'official' position as a conspiracy theorist.

The favourite targets of abuse among 911 activists admittedly appear to be individuals such as Alex Jones (a libertarian Christian), David Shayler (whose remarks on Israeli state terrorism have been falsely translated as 'anti-Semitism) and David Icke (who believes that the world is run by reptiles); however whether these people are Anarchists or not is irrelevant to the argument and evidence concerning the history of state terrorist black operations against their own people.
Why those of the Anarchist Left would be highly critical of the evidence presented by 911 7/7 researchers is quite beyond me.
________________
Based on my own sources in London as to how the intelligence services recruit, their strategy is to find people who are already in positions of influence and to put them on their payroll. Such individuals are not career military officers but simply the 'bribed.'
Are there Internet Sites run by Anglo-American psy-ops? Of course there are. Billions are spent on propaganda and misinformation.
I think that any Internet Site or publication where there is 'editorial control (i.e., a tyrant)' is suspect. Sites such as Indymedia on the other hand, where journalists are unpaid and independent offers a more 'Anarchist' model, but to be frank any large organisation can be infiltrated (bribed


______________________________

Lucifer


An open letter to the media
cc: 911 activist sites.

A personal reference for Larry O'Hara and Paul Stott of http://www.911cultwatch.org.uk/ (http://www.911cultwatch.org.uk)

The site operators of the above a '911 was not a black op' psyop site clearly have set up this 'pseudo-Left' site to gain media attention for the cause of their state terrorist masters.

They claim to be ‘experts’ who can debate the issues and plead on their site to be given the opportunity in the media to 'counter' any '911 experts' who allege that 911 and London 7/7 were black operations by the Anglo American state terrorist police / military.

As can be seen from their form of 'debating the issue' on for example [url]http://paulstott.typepad.com/911cultwatch/2006/11/anarchist_feder.html#comment-25898971
they are clearly incapable of debate and quickly report to abuse, contradiction, straw man arguments, changing the subject and other methods of sophistry to avoid defending any of the claims made on their psy-op site.

I thus have no hesitation in recommending these defenders of state terrorism as being typical of the mentality of your police state masters and I fully encourage you to give these morons an opportunity to debate with those who have examined the evidence and argument that Sept 11th and London 7/7 were black operations by your state terrorist masters.

Kind regards

Lucifer
Great and terrible and dreadful shall be the Aeon of Judgement.


An extensive list of possible psyop Internet sites defending Anglo_American state terrorist black operations on:

<a href="http://www.911cultwatch.org.uk/911cult_011.htm">http://www.911cultwatch.org.uk/911cult_011.htm</a> (http://www.911cultwatch.org.uk/911cult_011.htm)

Psy-op: a practical definition:

(a) disinfo operation designed to attract young political dissidents, draw them into the community, document their beliefs, and moderate their opinions
Those without an education in the matter may wonder aloud how a website that provides “dissident” material could possibly be an agent of the state that it allegedly opposes;

…..in George Orwell’s magnus opus 1984, there are two notable parties seemingly at war with each other: the tyrannical state, which controls all of the mainstream media in a very obvious, overbearing way, and the “Brotherhood,” a band of anti-government rebels who subvert the state through open resistance and an underground literature trade. By the end of the book, it’s revealed that both the state and the Brotherhood are controlled by the same interests,
By creating an anti-government resistance movement, the government of 1984 – the original “Big Brother” – ensures its own complete control of its populace, for even those opposing it are simultaneously fighting for it, albeit unknowingly. Such is the case propaganda, .... it works because we are unaware that we are even exposed to it.
....Taking into account things like Operation Mockingbird – which turned over 400 domestic American journalists into CIA assets by the late 1960’s –
.... Thus are born the popular leftist “gate-keepers” of conspiracy lore; intelligence-connected institutions like the aforementioned Ford Foundation funnel money to moderate-left media establishments .... in the interests of drowning out radical or revolutionary thought and legitimizing moderate beliefs and opinions. The term “gate-keepers” refers to the power that moderate leftists ....can thus receive, as they are able to essentially decide what is or is not appropriate for discussion among contemporary leftists, and will thus essentially set the agenda for many in their audience.


Lucifer
For Anarchist Communism

[stewart edwards]

frankly many Masons consider themselves 'gnostics' despite representing the anti-thesis of Gnosticism; they are 'Capitalists' and their god the god of Capital, not gnosis (knowledge, but 'inner spiritual shamanic' knowledge).How do you account for different farternities, eg those where money does seem to rule overtly, and those which do appear at least to very gnostic, into self-knowledge etc? I realise that this is a bit of a simplification and individua lodges can have their own culture re these things, but as a general point.

[luciferhorus]

How do you account for different farternities, eg those where money does seem to rule overtly, and those which do appear at least to very gnostic, into self-knowledge etc? I realise that this is a bit of a simplification and individua lodges can have their own culture re these things, but as a general point.

Gnosis may mean 'knowledge; but there are many Greek words for knowledge, and by 'gnosis' we refer not to the accumulation of academic knowledge but that of an inner shamanic experience generally understood by those who use psychotropic substances, of which their is an ancient legacy .

Could you give me a list of these Gnostic Masonic lodges which are known for their use of psychoactives (marijuana, psilocybe, DMT, etc.), in conjunction with sex magick, necromancy, etc, or indeed any of the known shamanic methods.

As stated in a previous response, I consider Timothy Leary to have been a Gnostic, but not a person who simply reads books, and certainly not any Freemason whose works I have ever read or whom I have ever met or debated with on the Internet; perhaps you could provide some named examples of such Masonic gnostics who reject the god of Capital (i.e., the Masonic/Christian god).

Personally I would consider Masons in general to be anti-Gnostics, the anti-thesis of Gnosticism, the enemies of Gnosticism,etc. In fact the the Anglo-American Christian / Masonic narco-terrorist military, police and establishment in general are generally associated with the heroin / cocaine trade, but even here that does not mean that they use such substances, merely that they profit by them and utilise them to fund their banks and their black military budgets, etc.

LL

Lux

[stewart edwards]

but that of an inner shamanic experience generally understood by those who use psychotropic substances, of which their is an ancient legacy .Which is also available to those who have done sufficient inner work on themselves, without needing drugs.

Could you give me a list of these Gnostic Masonic lodges which are known for their use of psychoactives (marijuana, psilocybe, DMT, etc.), in conjunction with sex magick, necromancy, etc, or indeed any of the known shamanic methods.No, for I dont know any that do this.

[luciferhorus]

Which is also available to those who have done sufficient inner work on themselves, without needing drugs.


Could you expand and unpack the meaning of 'inner work' with regards to what this entails (since I imagine that most slaves of the Masonic god of Capital would allege this)?

LL

Lux

[stewart edwards]

Could you expand and unpack the meaning of 'inner work' with regards to what this entails (since I imagine that most slaves of the Masonic god of Capital would allege this)?

LL

LuxI can only say what I have done personally. Things like:-

1. Looking at my bad points and trying to turn them into neutral points.
2. Working out why I have done things, what has motivated me to make certain decisions.
3. Reflecting hard on my life - in much detail - up to several hours a day over a period of many years.
4. Finding ways to ensure that I make better decisions in the future.
5. Finding the inner courage to face my fears and master myself.

A decade ago it would be fair to say that I was a lost broken man in the depths of darkness. I have come a long way since then.

[luciferhorus]

I can only say what I have done personally. Things like:-

1. Looking at my bad points and trying to turn them into neutral points.
2. Working out why I have done things, what has motivated me to make certain decisions.
3. Reflecting hard on my life - in much detail - up to several hours a day over a period of many years.
4. Finding ways to ensure that I make better decisions in the future.
5. Finding the inner courage to face my fears and master myself.

A decade ago it would be fair to say that I was a lost broken man in the depths of darkness. I have come a long way since then.

It think that much of the above would be a universally recommended strategy by almost all proponents of pop-psychology.

There is a general tendency among those who speak the language of Mason-babble to redefine good as evil, a society of slaves and masters as 'a society of equals,' their cult religion of Temple ritualists as a non-religion, a secret society as a society of secrets, state terrorist, narco-terrorist and Capitalsit imperialist collaboration as 'True Christianity,' and anti-gnosis as gnosis, etc..

Really this is just the semantics of Orwellian Newspeak, which is of course not a new language, but rather the English language, but all words are redefined.

You can define black as white, up as down, war as peace, freedom as slavery, etc., in a private language and others who speak Mason-babble and the language of the cultists of the god of Capital may understand your definitions of 'insider-language,' however this is a public forum and I refer to public definitions of language.

LL

Lux


http://www.redmolotov.com/images/designs/1984warispeace_design.jpg

[lightgiver]

lol!!!

classic.

explain yourself then:confused: seeing its a classic,I just love the 1 line answers with no feasible explanation.:rolleyes:

[lightgiver]

When you say a 'good' religious follower, you are making a moral (a discernment of good and evil) judgement just as I do when I judge Christianity as generally a phenomenon of evil.

I have pointed out that there are Anarchist Christians, Marxist Christians and various flavours of Liberation Theologians (Communist Christians), however in the 'Capitalist First World' this is very much a minority position and thus when I refer to Christianity as a whole this is generally a Capitalist faith, and thus since I consider Capitalism to be the problem in the world I cannot define such individuals as 'good,' since in the moral sense and from an anti-Capitalist persepctive there is no such a thing as a 'good Capitalist' only an effective Capitalist (like an effective murderer, etc).

Hypnotised and Indoctrinated.

I am sure that we would all symathise with the children who grew up in the orphanages of Nazi Germany and who were raised to consider Hitler their father, we could really consider them to be the victims of hypnosis and indoctrination who probably genuinely believed that Hitler was 'good;' never the less we must judge tham as 'evil' if we are coming from an anti-Nazi position.

Similarly with the Christian Capitalists; many of them are simply the victims of religious hypnosis, but we cannot suspend judgement on them just because of that.

Generally I try to use the term Christian Capitalism instead of Christianity, which encompasses a wide variety of flavours.

By 'Christian Capitalists' I do not refer simply to those who live in Capitalism, since we all live in Capitalism, but to those who by their ideology represent the anti-thesis of the anti-Capitalist Jesus and who are not anti-Capitalist activists.





Generally the Anarchist position is that all forms of organised religion are malevolent; I cannot think of a single organised religion which I would consider 'good' by anti-Capitalist, anti-statist definition.



Well take Hinduism for example; there are a billion of them who have hypnotised and indoctrinated to believe in a racist, human sacrifice cultist faith which justifies the existence of economic elties; there are more than a billion Musilims which is the religion of a slave trader and is a misogynistic (woman hating) Capitalist faith. We have alread discussed the billion Christians; we simply do not need these religions; their effect on humanity is detrimental; by no means whatsoever are the 'majority' anti-Capitalists, anti-statists, anti-religionists etc; on the contrary. This is the problem with mass hypnosis (organised religion), it affects the 'majority,' which is why it is called 'mass hypnosis' and not minority hypnosis; only if the majority of Christians were anti-Capitalists, anti-statists and anti-religionists (i.e., 'good') could I agree with you, but it is simply not the case.




For a person to become a free and progressive thinker and to be considered 'mature' the person has to throw off the slave morality of organised religion.

I tend to be rather judgemental in my debates with the Christian Capitalists, but frankly I am concerned for them; I do conisder most of them to be victims of hypnosis and I seek to awaken them and I cannot do that by flattering them and agreeing with them; on the contrary.


LL

Lux


_____________



Hypnosis 101. For Children

On Religion as Mass Hypnosis. How hypnosis works. On dehypnosis.


On de-hypnosis using the hypnotic words ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’

By Lucifer
For Revolution in all the World.

http://www.luciferia.tv/animation/A.gif

Dear children of the world.

When we can control the education of the children, we can control the destiny of the nation ...Hitler.


Language, Organised Religion and Hypnosis

Love and Lust.

A man who wishes to seduce a woman who is seeking ’Love’ will often use hypnotic keywords related to ’Love’ and to the woman’s natural emotional desires to be in a relationship, to be loved, to be worshiped, etc. However his feelings may not be genuine; he may simply be attempting to hypnotise the woman.

Similarly with organised religion. Few hypnotists (priests) would ever claim to be ’evil’ and to offer ’eternal hell’ in return for devotion; their strategy is that of hypnosis, by using ’hypnotic keywords’ relating to the victims desire to reject ’evil (by the definition of the priest) and to attain ’Heaven’ in the afterlife.

So it was with the ’Serpent (a metaphor for the Egyptian priesthood)’in Eden; he did not hypnotise Eve by seducing her with ’evil, ’ but rather with ’enlightenment;’ similarly all religionists seduce their victims with the mantras of ’good, ’ ’love, ’ heaven, ’ ’enlightenment, ’ etc.

Particularly with children and the psychologically vulnerable, being constantly exposed to religious sophistry (the lie of language) they can become convinced that a priest represents ’goodness, ’ ’heaven, ’ ’love, ’ etc., just as it is with the example of the man who uses the language of seduction on a woman.

Let us consider the example of hypnotised Christians.

The ‘born again’ experience is common in many faiths and is a common experience which most users of psychoactives would be familiar with.
From a general spiritualist point of view, this could be interpreted as ‘communion with the gods (ancestors), ’ however if this is the case with ‘born again Christians’ it is clearly not Jesus whom they are communing with, since if they were, they would end up as anti-Capitalists, whereas born again Christians seem in general to be evangelical Capitalists; many even consider George Bush (who has very little in common with the historical Jesus) to be a ‘man of God’

At some point these slaves of hypnosis have been subjected to the repetitive use of hypnotic key words.

Let us say that there is a professional hypnotist (i.e., a member of the clergy) who has absolutely nothing in common with the historical Jesus.
Let us say that this person is a Capitalist and a religious hypocrite and during a sermon in a hypnotic temple (church), the hypnotist repeats over and over, the following keywords.

‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ Let me just say that again: ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’
‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’<img

Now the victims of hypnosis (the congregation) associate the Capitalist religious hypocrite with a first century Iasraelite Communist / anti-propertyist and yet the victim now judges the world through the eyes of the Capitalist hypnotist.

If the hypnotist is a Capitalist and a religious hypocrite, an anti-Communist and a supporter of militant evangelical world Capitalist revolution, but uses the mantra of ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven, ’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’, he should be able to attract other Capitalists and religious hypocrites to his cult and to make them pay for the hypnosis. Eventually the victims may even come to believe that they will go to ‘Heaven’ in the afterlife with other Capitalists and religious hypocrites and that the economic victims of the Capitalists (the poor) are unsaved individuals who will end up in hell, since they were not able to be hypnotised by a Capitalist religious hypocrite.

Beware of the mantra of ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’

Say these words many times today.

Teach them to your children that they may never be hypnotised by a Christian.

Dehypnosis through hypnotic keywords

The dehypnotist will ideally to be able to use the same terms ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven, ’ as expertly as the victim’s hypnotist.

‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’Now if I do this every day. Soon when I speak, some of you might even associate me with

‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’ ‘Love, ’ ‘God, ’ ‘Jesus’ and ‘Heaven.’


The Art of Propaganda is the first stage of war.

None are free till all are free.

By Lucifer
For Anarchist Communism.

http://www.luciferia.tv/animation/A.gif

another long winded meaningless statement,it appears you just like the look of your posts.

You are far from free matey Lucifer,in fact you are the most enslaved I have come across.

everything is just a label including anarchist communism,another entrapment whatever anarchist communism is,I suppose you will be the leader in the house of the rising sun of that one:rolleyes:

You pay taxes so you are hypocritical and far from being anti capitalist,you need to practise what you preach,and you are hypnotised from your own beliefs also,if people follow things blindly, that's their fault not the religions fault.

You will get old sick and die,and then what will your beliefs and labels do for you then?no one escapes samsara LH, including you.

[thirdwave]

explain yourself then:confused: seeing its a classic,I just love the 1 line answers with no feasible explanation.:rolleyes:

the short response was supposed to indicate that I did not agree that religion was not a problem, I think it is and always has been.... Don't need to explain my self.

your view is just because there are some decent people who are religious that there is no problem.. I think that's bullshit.

I think the vast majority of religious people are simply being brainwashed... much of what LH has brought up I agree with...

and you do not need religion to practice spirituality or ethics.

[lightgiver]

the short response was supposed to indicate that I did not agree that religion was not a problem, I think it is and always has been.... Don't need to explain my self.

your view is just because there are some decent people who are religious that there is no problem.. I think that's bullshit.

I think the vast majority of religious people are simply being brainwashed... much of what LH has brought up I agree with...

and you do not need religion to practice spirituality or ethics.

Thats your View but to me you sound like the judge.

People are free to practise what they want are they not, whether its spirituality, ethics, religion are whatever label one wants to give it,if makes them happy so be it.

maybe you are brainwashed also,you impute yourselves onto labels and that is as brainwashed as anyone.

So maybe you and LH should leave people to practise what they want.

Do you even know what religion means?By the sounds of it you do not,because you appear to be practising it also.

[thirdwave]

Thats your View but to me you sound like the judge.

People are free to practise what they want are they not, whether its spirituality, ethics, religion are whatever label one wants to give it,if makes them happy so be it.

You seem to have over looked the general point being disused here... which is staggering when you look at the great detail of the subject being brought up...

the point being is that with most religions they judge others.. and decide who is and is not going to heaven based on their judgement..


maybe you are brainwashed also,you impute yourselves onto labels and that is as brainwashed as anyone.

I am certain I am also brainwashed .. as you don't have to be religious to be brainwashed by its powerful institutions... our ancestors have been abused by religions for generations.. the difference is one of the first steps to creating your own program is by seeing the programs you don't like...

So maybe you and LH should leave people to practise what they want.

If people are unable to get on with their religion because of others who are condemned by it and are choosing to expose its flaws... then it cant be that much of a powerful religion...

Do you even know what religion means?By the sounds of it you do not,because you appear to be practising it also.

Yes I do and I am not apart of any organised religion of occult group.. as yet... I think you are focusing on your preferred outlook than what is actually being discussed here.

[lightgiver]

You seem to have over looked the general point being disused here... which is staggering when you look at the great detail of the subject being brought up...

the point being is that with most religions they judge others.. and decide who is and is not going to heaven based on their judgement..



I am certain I am also brainwashed .. as you don't have to be religious to be brainwashed by its powerful institutions... our ancestors have been abused by religions for generations.. the difference is one of the first steps to creating your own program is by seeing the programs you don't like...



If people are unable to get on with their religion because of others who are condemned by it and are choosing to expose its flaws... then it cant be that much of a powerful religion...



Yes I do and I am not apart of any organised religion of occult group.. as yet... I think you are focusing on your preferred outlook than what is actually being discussed here.

LH is following a religion but condemning others,now that is quite staggering.

Religions do not judge others ,people do;)

It is you and LH doing the condemning,but praising yourselves.

People allow themselves to be abused,religions do not abuse,people do.

You and LH appear not to be letting others get on with their religion,check out your posts.

I am not focusing on anything I am replying to your LOL classic post and your other comments,and I thought you and LH practised kabbala(religion)?

This is what religion means,

A religion is an organized approach to human spirituality which usually encompasses a set of narratives, symbols, beliefs and practices, often with a supernatural or transcendent quality, that give meaning to the practitioner's experiences of life through reference to a higher power or truth.

Now let people get on with their practise.

Peace LG:)

[thirdwave]

LH is following a religion but condemning others,now that is quite staggering.

I have seen he is involved in magic and he opposes certain political views .. that create the environment we live in... But I would not be able to tell you what religion he has personally..

Religions do not judge others ,people do;)

Well you say it with a smile which is good.. but it does not make it any more true..

Mark
16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

John
15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.


Romans
1:31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:

1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

you see, I know people make evil... and people are to blame..

Its Just I believe people created the bible.


It is you and LH doing the condemning,but praising yourselves.

is one not aloud to defend them self?

People allow themselves to be abused,religions do not abuse,people do.
I think religions do abuse people...

You and LH appear not to be letting others get on with their religion,check out your posts.
maybe the David Icke forum (a person who has many times written in his books that religion is a thorn in the side of spirituality) is not the best place for religious people to come and prey?


I am not focusing on anything I am replying to your LOL classic post and your other comments,and I thought you and LH practised kabbala(religion)?


Kabbalah is not a religion, and I am not one.. LH lis into it... I have researched it and found it to resonate with my outlook on the universe.

This is what religion means,

A religion is an organized approach to human spirituality which usually encompasses a set of narratives, symbols, beliefs and practices, often with a supernatural or transcendent quality, that give meaning to the practitioner's experiences of life through reference to a higher power or truth.

Well a simple flick through wiki could have sorted us out there... I know what it means..
You seem to be really hung up on that word?, need you be?... its quite clear the institutions and historical texts that are being pointed out... any religion where the practician is its creator is fine by me.


Now let people get on with their practise.
I was n ot aware there had been any chains put in place... if my perception and outlook is a burden to your faith then I can only say hard luck mate.


I think Jesus has said some wise words and at times sounds like a worth while person... but the way he is depicted is way to vague for me to really have a genuine opinion of.... I can say that the only character I do understand and respect is the serpent in the garden of Eden that urged Adam and Eve to enlightenment.

I have no superstitions or feelings towards Christianity... its not really in my world.... if others want it in theirs its their choice... but while they attack others as Christ enemy... then they are going to have to deal with people attacking Christ....

[luciferhorus]

another long winded meaningless statement,it appears you just like the look of your posts.

.

I have been studying hypnosis and the effects of hypnosis for many years; to sum religious hypnosis up in a very short one page essay is my form of berevity; I am quite fluent in psycho-babble and academiia-babble, but like to speak very plainly and simply in language that children can understand.

I do realise however that many people in the modern world are barely literate and have a very short attention span, and that even if I express myself simply that it is simply too much for many to bear, but there is nothing I can do about that.

If the effects and power of religious hypnosis are meaningless to you; an 'argument (as opposed to mere contradiction and abuse) would explain why you think so and offer a defense of religous hypnosis.


You are far from free matey Lucifer,in fact you are the most enslaved I have come across.
.

This forum and indeed the internet is full of people who confuse ASC (Abuse, Sophistry and Contradiction); I have explained the meaning of on a number of occasions on this forum; you are not a child and you far from lacking in intelligence and are thus without excuse; I am not going to exchange contradiction and abuse with you; an argument would state 'why' you consider me to be a slave, who or what I am enslaved to and who is my alleged master.



everything is just a label including anarchist communism,another entrapment whatever anarchist communism is,I suppose you will be the leader in the house of the rising sun of that one:rolleyes:

My strategy is simply 'directionism;' it has nothing to do with leaders of followers; I belong to no political party or organised religion; I have no leaders and no followers; only my brothers and sisters.

With regards to whatever 'Anarchist Communism is' I refer you to my very simple essay 'What is Anarchism?' on this forum. As far as I am concerned it represents the highest truth in terms of political philosophy; I am quite happy to debate the issue with you but to restate I have no intention of playing a game of the exchange of abuse and contradition; if you have no understanding of Anarchist Communism I would suggest that you refrain from commenting upon it until you do.


You pay taxes so you are hypocritical and far from being anti capitalist,you need to practise what you preach,

We all live in Capitalism; we all have earn an income in order to eat and survive; irrespective of our political philosophy; I have no interest in the accumulation of mammon; muich of my life's fortune has been spent on my numerous forms of political activism in the past, and I am without shame.


and you are hypnotised from your own beliefs also,

Well an argument would state in what way I have been hypnotised and by whom. I am simply a person who has debated political philosophy for decades and have come to my own conclusions through the dialectical process of study, debate and the testing of ideas.


if people follow things blindly, that's their fault not the religions fault.

It is much easier to hypnotise someone who is a child, or who is illiterate or who is uneducated; a third of global population are just children under 16; half are women, for whom most of them have been deprived of education; billions are impoverished; the victims of religious hypnosis are victims; the propagators of religious hypnosis (the preisthood) are the perpetrators of evil; they are far from innocent.

You will get old sick and die,and then what will your beliefs and labels do for you then?no one escapes samsara LH, including you.

Anarchist Communism may be jsut a label to you for myself and others like me it is a political philosophy; a Final Economic solution to the world of Capital and tyranny. Since it is objectionable to you, might I ask you what you consider to be the solution to the current Capitalist world?

We all die, and it is my view that we all pass over into another realm of Lightbut with regards to 'Samsara' it is a Hindu Idea; I am not a Hindu but an anti-Hindu, as are all Indian Communists; hinduism is a racist, idolatrous, worhless human sacrifice cultist religion and which justifies the rule of kings, priests and racial masters; it is a curse on the Indian proletariat; and I do not believe in reincarnation.

Since you appear to be a defender of religion, what then is your objection to the religion of Freemasonry, and what is your own religion?

LL

Lux
The End of Religion.

The criticism of religion is the prerequisite of all criticism......The foundation of irreligious criticism is this: Man makes religion, religion does not make man.

Religion is indeed man's self-consciousness and self-awareness so long as he has not found himself ....

This state and this society produce religion, which is an inverted consciousness of the world,

Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people.


The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is the demand for their real happiness. To call on them to give up their illusions about their condition is to call on them to give up a condition that requires illusions.

"The first requisite for the happiness of the people is the abolition of religion."


Karl Marx

"So long as the priest, that professional negator, slanderer and poisoner of life, is regarded as a superior type of human being, there cannot be any answer to the question: What is Truth?"
Friedrich Nietzsche, The Antichrist / 1888


________________



Addendum


________________



The Socratic Dialectic (Gr. Argument) 101

or:


‘Abuse, sophisty and contradiction (ASC) : the last cries of the desparate.’


What is ‘argument?

By Lucifer
http://www.luciferia.tv/animation/A.gif

For Anarchist Communism.

______________________________________

There are numerous groups on the Internet where debate is confused with 'exchanges' of abuse.

I was did not always think as I do, and in the future I expect my positions to modify as a consequence of study, debate, life experience etc.

Debate and discussion is always a good thing.

Our political and metaphysical beliefs must go through a dialectical testing process.

When tested, if they fail or are destroyed by superior arguments; the person who is intellectually honest should concede and modify his position.

That is how adults 'develop' intellectually, morally (the discernment of good and evil), spiritually, whatever.

Children just slag each other off.

______________



Thesis (idea), anti-thesis (opposing idea) and synthesis (a combination of two ideas).

An argument in the English language can mean a fight between two football hooligans but this has nothing to do with the Greek meaning of ‘dialectic, ’ with regards to the teaching and debating method Socrates. In Internet debates over the years I have often made many ‘arguments’ against the ‘ideas’ of other people who misunderstand the meaning of the term ‘dialectic, ’ and to simplify I have written the following explanation which I often post in response to my essays.


_____________________________________________

Abuse and contradiction are common and can be had from imbecile, football hooligan or a drunk at a bus stop and do not constitute argument.
Responses should follow certain standards or they may be responded to with ‘abuse, ’ but probably I will just ignore you.
_________________________________
Argument (Gr. dialectic) according to Socrates and John Cleese.


3 universally accepted ground rules of debating

1: Abuse.

Abuse does not constitute an argument.

2: Contradiction.

Contradiction is not an argument. ’I don’t agree with you’ is not an
argument. An Argument would state ‘why’ you disagree.

3: Sophistry (sophist: ’sophisticated / educated).

A Sophist generally avoids the question and rambles on about something else, often avoiding the argument made by the opponent and often utilising straw man arguments (attacking arguments and positions which the opponent does not hold) and creates confusion with language.

The use of the combination of 1, 2 and 3 is generally defined as ’arrogance’ and ‘avoidance of debate, ’ and by default ‘conceding the point to the opponent’

For those who do not understand the meaning of the term ‘argument, ’ for further information watch the 3 min video on the ground rules of debate on:

http://www.youtube.com/v/kQFKtI6gn9Y&hl=en&fs=1

(Monty Python Argument Sketch)

Note that this only covers abuse and contradiction.

If you cannot understand this, I suggest the removal of your brain.

See

http://www.youtube.com/v/IIlKiRPSNGA&hl=en&fs=1

(Monty Python: ’My Brian Hurts)

’An argument is not contradiction (or abuse); it is a series of connected statements which establish a proposition; a debate is a dialectical intellectual process’

__________


The Socratic and Sophist method of education

Socrates: intellectual and spiritual development through a dialectical process.

Socrates would encourage his students to ‘argue’ with him, but to restate, since the term ‘argue’ has a number of meanings in the English, we are speaking of a Socratic ‘dialectical’ process, not a punch up, nor the showering of abuse; we are speaking of challenging an idea (thesis) with another idea (anti-thesis) and in this way the ideas and debating skills of both parties evolve and develop.

This process is intended to produce an intellectually evolved and intellectually honest person who can admit points to the opponent when the opponent’s position seems to be better and who can also stand up for their own ideas when challenged by an authority whom they disagree with. This is how we evolve intellectually and spiritually; whereas an ‘arrogant; person engages in an argument (debate) in the same way that a boxer fights (to win). The purpose of dialectical argument is not to win even if one is shown to be errant, but to test and evolve (develop) ones’ ideas. This sometimes can involve using the ‘Devil’s advocate’ form of argument where one attacks the arguments of those one essentially agrees with in order to test them.

The Sophists: Intellectual fascism (Gr. Sophist: a sophisticated, educated, arrogant pseudo-intellectual).

The Sophist method of educating students, which has been taken up by the Catholic Church throughout it’s history, was to lecture them for hours, and if challenged by a student, the student might be told that they are arrogant, told off or burned at the state, tortured by the Inquisition’ or simply ‘murdered ’ and branded a heretic who dared to challenge authority. The Sophist method defines the term ‘arrogance. An arrogant person thinks that they are always correct, and even when shown to be incorrect, they will still hold fast to their position, since their purpose is to ‘win’ an argument by all means necessary. The Sophists of course despised Socrates as much as he despised them (he considered them to be educated fools) and like so many others who challenge existing authority, Socrates was martyred.

Lucifer

http://www.luciferia.tv/animation/A.gif

Light of the World.
Aeon of Lucifer 2008


http://www.youtube.com/v/X3Hg-Y7MugU&hl=en&fs=1

Chritopher Hitchens. On argument.


"My predecessors have invariably said, 'My belief is right and yours is wrong; my customs are worthy, yours are ignoble; my dress is decent, yours is not; think as I think, talk as I talk, do as I do, or you will be wretched, poor, sick, disgraced and dammed; besides which, I shall cut your head off, burn you alive, starve you, imprison you, ostracize you and otherwise make you sorry you did not agree to be a good boy.' The essence of every missionary message has been to assimilate the taught to the teacher; and it has always been accompanied by bribes and threats. My message is exactly opposed to any of this. I say to each man and woman, 'You are unique and sovereign, the centre of an universe........... My mission is, in short, to bring everyone to the realization and enjoyment of his own kingship."

Aleister Crowley. Confessions.

[lightgiver]

I have seen he is involved in magic and he opposes certain political views .. that create the environment we live in... But I would not be able to tell you what religion he has personally..



Well you say it with a smile which is good.. but it does not make it any more true..






you see, I know people make evil... and people are to blame..

Its Just I believe people created the bible.



is one not aloud to defend them self?


I think religions do abuse people...


maybe the David Icke forum (a person who has many times written in his books that religion is a thorn in the side of spirituality) is not the best place for religious people to come and prey?



Kabbalah is not a religion, and I am not one.. LH lis into it.


Well a simple flick through wiki could have sorted us out there... I know what it means..
You seem to be really hung up on that word?, need you be?... its quite clear the institutions and historical texts that are being pointed out... any religion where the practician is its creator is fine by me.


I was n ot aware there had been any chains put in place... if my perception and outlook is a burden to your faith then I can only say hard luck mate.


I think Jesus has said some wise words and at times sounds like a worth while person... but the way he is depicted is way to vague for me to really have a genuine opinion of.... I can say that the only character I do understand and respect is the serpent in the garden of Eden that urged Adam and Eve to enlightenment.

I have no superstitions or feelings towards Christianity... its not really in my world.... if others want it in theirs its their choice... but while they attack others as Christ enemy... then they are going to have to deal with people attacking Christ....

I feel you have inherited an oppressive and argumentative mind set.

and kabbalah is a religion.

[lightgiver]

I have been studying hypnosis and the effects of hypnosis for many years; to sum religious hypnosis up in a very short one page essay is my form of berevity; I am quite fluent in psycho-babble and academiia-babble, but like to speak very plainly and simply in language that children can understand.

I do realise however that many people in the modern world are barely literate and have a very short attention span, and that even if I express myself simply that it is simply too much for many to bear, but there is nothing I can do about that.

If the effects and power of religious hypnosis are meaningless to you; an 'argument (as opposed to mere contradiction and abuse) would explain why you think so and offer a defense of religous hypnosis.



This forum and indeed the internet is full of people who confuse ASC (Abuse, Sophistry and Contradiction); I have explained the meaning of on a number of occasions on this forum; you are not a child and you far from lacking in intelligence and are thus without excuse; I am not going to exchange contradiction and abuse with you; an argument would state 'why' you consider me to be a slave, who or what I am enslaved to and who is my alleged master.





My strategy is simply 'directionism;' it has nothing to do with leaders of followers; I belong to no political party or organised religion; I have no leaders and no followers; only my brothers and sisters.

With regards to whatever 'Anarchist Communism is' I refer you to my very simple essay 'What is Anarchism?' on this forum. As far as I am concerned it represents the highest truth in terms of political philosophy; I am quite happy to debate the issue with you but to restate I have no intention of playing a game of the exchange of abuse and contradition; if you have no understanding of Anarchist Communism I would suggest that you refrain from commenting upon it until you do.




We all live in Capitalism; we all have earn an income in order to eat and survive; irrespective of our political philosophy; I have no interest in the accumulation of mammon; muich of my life's fortune has been spent on my numerous forms of political activism in the past, and I am without shame.




Well an argument would state in what way I have been hypnotised and by whom. I am simply a person who has debated political philosophy for decades and have come to my own conclusions through the dialectical process of study, debate and the testing of ideas.




It is much easier to hypnotise someone who is a child, or who is illiterate or who is uneducated; a third of global population are just children under 16; half are women, for whom most of them have been deprived of education; billions are impoverished; the victims of religious hypnosis are victims; the propagators of religious hypnosis (the preisthood) are the perpetrators of evil; they are far from innocent.



Anarchist Communism may be jsut a label to you for myself and others like me it is a political philosophy; a Final Economic solution to the world of Capital and tyranny. Since it is objectionable to you, might I ask you what you consider to be the solution to the current Capitalist world?

We all die, and it is my view that we all pass over into another realm of Lightbut with regards to 'Samsara' it is a Hindu Idea; I am not a Hindu but an anti-Hindu, as are all Indian Communists; hinduism is a racist, idolatrous, worhless human sacrifice cultist religion and which justifies the rule of kings, priests and racial masters; it is a curse on the Indian proletariat; and I do not believe in reincarnation.

Since you appear to be a defender of religion, what then is your objection to the religion of Freemasonry, and what is your own religion?

LL

Lux
The End of Religion.

The criticism of religion is the prerequisite of all criticism......The foundation of irreligious criticism is this: Man makes religion, religion does not make man.

Religion is indeed man's self-consciousness and self-awareness so long as he has not found himself ....

This state and this society produce religion, which is an inverted consciousness of the world,

Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people.


The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is the demand for their real happiness. To call on them to give up their illusions about their condition is to call on them to give up a condition that requires illusions.

"The first requisite for the happiness of the people is the abolition of religion."


Karl Marx

"So long as the priest, that professional negator, slanderer and poisoner of life, is regarded as a superior type of human being, there cannot be any answer to the question: What is Truth?"
Friedrich Nietzsche, The Antichrist / 1888

You are following religion,full stop.

Who are you to decide what people should and should not do,and who are you to decide what makes others happy,you sound like a benevolent communist dictator.

Powerful man walk on crooked legs.;)

I have no objection to freemasonry,I have an objection to secret control and tyranny.

I spoke openly to the world; and in secret have I said nothing.

BTW religion is just a label,and you appear to be attached to many.

You cannot preach about anti capitalism when you live in capitalism and live by its fruits.

I agree a lot of priests are bad,but a lot of priests are good also.

You are hypnotised by your fanatical beliefs,check your posts.

and you think Hinduism created samsara,I would check again if I was you.

and yes the world wide education system is miserable.

[thirdwave]

I feel you have inherited an oppressive and argumentative mind set.



if what I think oppresses you, then you maybe have other things to address..

[luciferhorus]

You are following religion,full stop.

.......

BTW religion is just a label,and you appear to be attached to many.

This is just contradiction, an argument would show what religion I belong to; it would provide some evidence; you are simply ignoring my criticisms and question and continuing with contradiction and abuse.

I am quite happy to engage in intelligent debate and discussion, but have no interest in wasting my time with such childish exchanges.

Might I suggest that you take yourself to a school playground or find some football holligans to debate with; perhaps they would be more on your 'level.'


Lux.

[lightgiver]

if what I think oppresses you, then you maybe have other things to address..

yes you are argumentative when people do not agree with you,I have experienced your long winded arguments on many posts on here and they end up with you insulting.

You should leave people to practise what they want,you would also make a good dictator,god help us all if you and LH run things,it would be a damn site worse than it is now.

[lightgiver]

This is just contradiction, an argument would show what religion I belong to; it would provide some evidence; you are simply ignoring my criticisms and question and continuing with contradiction and abuse.

I am quite happy to engage in intelligent debate and discussion, but have no interest in wasting my time with such childish exchanges.

Might I suggest that you take yourself to a school playground or find some football holligans to debate with; perhaps they would be more on your 'level.'


Lux.


Everything is a label at the end of the day,nothing contradictory about that.

I am far from childish because I do not agree with you,your posts are all the same thing.

anti something are the other but yet you live by the fruits of your anti thought's.

Sorry not fond of football or hooligans or play grounds,yes cheap insults are always the last resort.

LH how can someone debate with you, you have made your mind up already a lot like TW.

Your posts repeat the same thing,well most of them.

all I can say is good luck with your agenda,but it is unlikely to happen,maybe for you but you cannot Impose your views on others.

and kabbala is a religion all the same.


Leading the way out of the past

Yesterday hangs around our necks like a noose; paralysing us, inhibiting us, blocking the path to the future. By holding onto history we repeat the same mistakes over and over again, always stepping into the footprints of our past.

Here we ask - let go of what was, let go of your fear, let go of your anger - accept your place in existence. We are our own creators. Making this world into our image of what life should be. Then why not make it one of mutual respect, of hard work, of integrity, of love. But, most of all make it one that always steps proudly into the future.

[metacomet]

I am far from childish because I do not agree with you,your posts are all the same thing.

anti something are the other

I totally agree.

Handful of members on this forum are on about one thing only : hatred for religion.

It's their only topic of discussion.

Not judging... just stating a fact.

[lightgiver]

I totally agree.

Handful of members on this forum are on about one thing only : hatred for religion.

It's their only topic of discussion.

Not judging... just stating a fact.

Yes I agree,

but the ones condemning it, practise it, such is the irony of it;)

Often referred to as the "soul" of the Torah, the Kabbala is an ancient Jewish tradition which teaches the deepest insights into the essence of God, His interaction with the world, and the purpose of Creation. Kabbala teaches the essential Jewish cosmology, integral to all other Torah disciplines.

and god is the main one in it or the light one should say,

when Kabbalists refer to God, they often speak not of a human form or an entity of any kind. Instead, they refer to the Light which emanates from the Creator. Kabbalah teaches that this Light has always existed, even before the universe itself came into being. As it is written in the Book of Proverbs,


Before the mountains were settled,
Before the hills, I was brought forth;
While as yet He had not made the earth, nor the fields,
Nor the beginning of the dust of the world.
When He established the heavens,
I was there.

http://www.kabbalah.com/k/index.php/p=life/religion, oh look religion.

and on that note ,GOD night to you all :)

[luciferhorus]

What is argument? More on Abuse, Sophistry and Contradiction. Some Practical Examples.

Lucifer.

Some examples from Lightgiver here on this forum.

Sophistry

Consider:

“Religions do not judge others ,people do.”



Why is Lightgiver's statement sophistry? Well the sentence is both false and also meaningless.

To say that ‘religions do not judge others’, people do,' implies that religion is a something quite separate from people.

This begs the question of who writes religious texts?

It is certainly the case that religions are creations of people.

If there were no people in the world, there would be no religion; animals and plants certainly do not start religious cults or espouse theology.

This is thus a good example of sophistry; it is simply meaningless linguistic confusion; mumbo-jumbo in simple terms.

Frankly I doubt very much if LH understands what he is saying himself; but neither would anyone else be able to understand this.

I know of no religious texts that were not written by religious 'people,' and further it is certainly the case that the authors of the major religions of the world certainly all discerned good and evil (i.e., a judgement) in different ways; take the 613 laws of Moses, for example, or the numerous Hindu or Islamic laws.

Frankly I am unable to think of a single major text of any organised religion which does not judge good and evil.

I am reminded of Plato’s ‘Wise man speaks because he has something to say; fool speaks because he has to say something.

It seems to me that LH just likes to argue for the sake of it, and if he has nothing meaningful to say, he just says ‘something,' anything which sounds argumentative.

Consider:


“People allow themselves to be abused, religions do not abuse, people do.”


Again this is classic sophistry; meaningless mumbo jumbo and linguistic confusion.

Consider ‘Religions do not abuse, people do’; here again we have the separation of ‘religion’ from religious people, as if religion were not a creation of people and had nothing to do with people.

Again this begs the question of what this ‘religion’ is which totally separate from the religious people who run religions (the priesthood, masters, etc) and who have written the religious texts and those person's religious beliefs?

It is quite simply a totally meaningless statement.

Again this is just arguing for the sake of it; saying something meaningless since I must suppose he has nothing meaningful to say.


Consider further (in response to thirdwave):



“LH: you are argumentative when people do not agree with you”



An argument, in terms of a debate is an interaction between people who generally have differing points of view; a person who is truly a free thinker cannot be expected to just agree with his opponent; in fact this is the problem with religious cultism and with tyranny; the slave is simply meant to agree; this is not quite the same as arguing for the sake of it and practicing contradiction and abuse which is Lightgiver's chosen method.




Everything is a label at the end of the day, nothing contradictory about that.


A label is a description, just as a food label in a supermarket describes the contents.

Language is a describing process.

Verbs and nouns in language are describing words; I suppose that we could also call them ‘’labels’ in LG’s language; however if we did not use verbs and nouns we would find it impossible to describe anything. Further I notice LG's responses to be full of nouns and adjectives (i.e., labels, describing words).

For example if I say that the Jesus of the Gospels was an militant anti-Capitalist, the term Anti-Capitalist is a noun and the term militant is an adjective; in LG’s language it appears that the use of nouns and adjectives are all ‘labels (which they certainly are) which we are not supposed to use; this simply ridiculous and constitutes sophistry.

I have stated that I use the ‘description’ of ‘Anarchist Communist’ since it describes my political philosophy and saves me having to explain it all the time. I have pointed to my essay ‘What is Anarchism?’ which simply and clearly unpacks this description. If I did not describe myself as an Anarchist Communist, I would have to explain my political philosophy each time I debate politics, and unfortunately I would still be unable to do so without utilising nouns and adjectives (i.e. labels); however but this simply meets with L.G's contempt for 'Labels (descriptions) in human language.

Again:

maybe you are brainwashed also, you impute yourselves onto labels and that is as brainwashed as anyone.

And on and on…


Religionists doing whatever they want and Self-Contradiction.

Consider:

You should leave people to practise what they want,


And:


People are free to practise what they want are they not, whether its spirituality, ethics, religion are whatever label one wants to give it, if makes them happy so be it.


And:


So maybe you and LH should leave people to practise what they want.


And


Now let people get on with their practise


And

Who are you to decide what people should and should not do


And

You are hypnotised by your fanatical beliefs,


LB appears here to be a champion for religionists who should just be able to do whatever they want. This should not be confused however with Thelema, since that involves the non-interference with the will of others.

We should perhaps be silent and not object to human sacrifice cultism, religious hypnosis, religiously justified racism, nationalism, homophobia misogyny, genocide, infanticide, executions for violations of religious law, etc, etc., all of which religion has in plentiful supply and perhaps especially Masonry and their current World Capitalist Revolution, money lending, state terrorism, narco-terrorism, genocide etc.

That would be the effect if we took LG's position that people should free to practise what they want and let them get on with it; which of course is not the Anarchist position at all, and indeed if we consider LG's attacks on the Masons on this forum it does not appear to be his position either, which is entirely self-contradictory.


Judgment and Moral Philosophy

Consider

Thats your View but to me you sound like the judge.


And:

It is you and LH doing the condemning, but praising yourselves.


And:

LH is following a religion but condemning others,now that is quite staggering.


A Judgement is a subjective discernment of good and evil; it is what moral philosophers do, it is what we all do. I do it all the time and so does LG but he apparently objects to anyone else doing it

Moral philosophy essentially asks the question what is good and evil, and this is question is not exclusive to religious people; an atheist Communist for example may consider the current Christian state terrorist Capitalist imperialism to be morally evil.

Since this thread is on the anti-Capitalist positions of Jesus, it is clear for example that he judged the Capitalists and religious hypocrites of his age to be evil.

and top it all off:

I feel you have inherited an oppressive and argumentative mind set.

And

yes cheap insults are always the last resort.


In fact I do not find any insults being thrown at LG, it is he who is throwing insults; it is a common malaise for a fool to accuse others of precisely what they are guilty of themselves.

Physics and Metaphysics


kabbalah is a religion

And

BTW religion is just a label,and you appear to be attached to many.


And

and kabbala is a religion all the same.


Organised religion is the death of spirituality and the anti-thesis of spirituality

Since this is the David Icke forum I think that David might be a good example of a person who, like numerous philosophers in human history, has numerous metaphysical beliefs, but who belongs to no form of organised religion; this is very common among New Agers.

If we were to accuse David of belonging to a religion, it would only be fair to have some type of evidence to this extent, but frankly none is forthcoming and it seems to me that he considers organised religion as malevolent and unnecessary, much as Nietzsche considered religious morality the morality of a slave, and as totally unnecessary for the free thinker; indeed while David's works are full of his personal metaphysical beliefs, he appears to be entirely hostile to organised religion, and I think that he would not take kindly to being referred to as a religous person, nor do I, since I am evangelically anti-religious.

I have a graduate degree in 'Theological and Religious studies.' In this academic area we tend to study Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, New Religious Movements, etc.

Frankly about 50% of the academics at the institute where I studied (Roehampton in London) were evangelically anti-religious; they similarly despised organised religion, but it does not follow that, as with David, they were devoid of metaphysical beliefs.

Certainly there are numerous Kabbalistic cults (religions), but the Kabbalah is simply a system of metaphysics and I by no means agree with all that has ever been written about it; on the contrary I find a great deal of non-sense written; never the less I belong to no religion and not cult, and I have no cult, and like Ike and numerous other New Agers, I simply have my own personal metaphysics.

This explanation however does not suffice for LG, but since he has been unable to offer any evidence of any religion which I am associated with, true to form, he simply responds with contradiction, abuse and Sophistry, speaking in his own contradictory private language which I doubt if he even understands himself.

In summary, LG's debating strategy is simply a mixture of Sophistry (linguistic confusion), Contradiction and Abuse; he avoids questions, ignores responses, he is unable to form arguments and to engage in debate, and generally I must conclude that he is simply a waste of time and is here to waste his own time and that of others.

LL


Lux

'It take a fool to debate with a fool'

Better to remain silent and to be thought possibly a fool, than to open one's mouth and to leave no doubt in anyone's mind'

_____________________

To Restate:

Failure to follow these very simple guidlines (below) generally constitutes the three major reasons why threads descend into exchanges which are more typical of a football hooligan or a child in a playground; the matters we speak of here are very serious issues; excuse me if I choose not to waste my time engaging in this sort of non-sense and consider it beneath my intelligence and beneath the intelligence of many others here on this forum.

Further since this is the 'David Icke' forum I should point out that I consider such exchanges to be certainly unworthy of him and beneath him also.


_____________________________________________


Abuse and contradiction are common and can be had from imbecile, football hooligan or a drunk at a bus stop and do not constitute argument.
Responses should follow certain standards or they may be responded to with ‘abuse, ’ but probably I will just ignore you.
_________________________________
Argument (Gr. dialectic) according to Socrates and John Cleese.


3 universally accepted ground rules of debating

1: Abuse.

Abuse does not constitute an argument.

2: Contradiction.

Contradiction is not an argument. ’I don’t agree with you’ is not an
argument. An Argument would state ‘why’ you disagree.

3: Sophistry (sophist: ’sophisticated / educated).

A Sophist generally avoids the question and rambles on about something else, often avoiding the argument made by the opponent and often utilising straw man arguments (attacking arguments and positions which the opponent does not hold) and creates confusion with language.

The use of the combination of 1, 2 and 3 is generally defined as ’arrogance’ and ‘avoidance of debate, ’ and by default ‘conceding the point to the opponent’

For those who do not understand the meaning of the term ‘argument, ’ for further information watch the 3 min video on the ground rules of debate on:

http://www.youtube.com/v/kQFKtI6gn9Y&hl=en&fs=1

(Monty Python Argument Sketch)

Note that this only covers abuse and contradiction.

If you cannot understand this, I suggest the removal of your brain.

See

http://www.youtube.com/v/IIlKiRPSNGA&hl=en&fs=1

(Monty Python: ’My Brian Hurts)

’An argument is not contradiction (or abuse); it is a series of connected statements which establish a proposition; a debate is a dialectical intellectual process’

__________

[luciferhorus]

I totally agree.

Handful of members on this forum are on about one thing only : hatred for religion.


Back to Capitalist Christianity: In Conclusion

The subject of this thread is the evil (my Judgement) religion of Christianity which is used as a hypnotic tool to propagate Capitalism, Capitalist state terrorism, narco-terrorism; a religion based upon the words and edicts of an alleged first century Israelite anti-Capitalist, anti-propertyist.

These are very serious issues which affect future humanity and in the present, the billions of our brothers and sisters who are suffering here under the yoke of militant Christian Capitalism and Imperialism.

Thus far no real arguments have been made against my position apart from L.G’s ‘Religious people should be free do what they want (I paraphrase)’ and ‘I am judging (of course I am) and the general ‘this thread is about hating religion (I paraphrase),’ the latter being entirely correct with regards to my judgement on organised religion and in particular, Capitalist Christianity or ‘anti- or non-Communist Christianity,’ which is the subject deal with in the initial essay on this thread.

Frankly you will have to do a lot better than that to counter the arguments made in the essay.

More on my hatred of religion here: http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?p=957003&posted=1#post957003, and further on 'why' such hatred is necessary; goodness hates evil and seeks to eradicate it; evil submits to evil and seeks to protect evil from the judgement of the righteous.

LL

Lux.
http://www.luciferia.tv/animation/A.gif
The End of Religion

[thirdwave]

yes you are argumentative when people do not agree with you,

You need to take note of the thread subjects.... and that you do not have to all agree to be of value to a thread...

One of the reasons I have spent allot of time chatting on this forum is because it allows a place for people to converse about alternative study which goes unnoticed... and Religion is a huge part of this.. and one of the things that attracted me to Ickes works....

it would not be a very good forum if it was full of people like your self that promote past and present Dogmas... and there was no one to be argumentative with you.


I have experienced your long winded arguments on many posts on here and they end up with you insulting.

perhaps your own methods of debate are not working for you..


You should leave people to practise what they want,you would also make a good dictator,god help us all if you and LH run things,it would be a damn site worse than it is now.

Now it sounds like you are repeating your self... and considering what has been discussed here and how LH has made the point that there should be no dictatorship, period. It proves that you are simply ignoring every point and outlook here and are just focused of defending your own religion blindly and passionatly when its clear that what is being said is very much based on freedom and liberty for ALL... your religion makes others out to be evil that are not so.... how on earth you have the cheek to expect that they should not have the right to defend their name is simply fascism.

I have allready pointed out to you that your religion does not suport the freedom being talked about and If you like I can provide you with more texts that show this...

Yes this is be being argumentative... But it was you that created this confrontation, as the thread will show... and again I point out that you are in a forum created by a person that has no support for organised religion... so if these threads upset you then maybe you need to reassess your choice in forums.

and you can call the Kabbalah a religion if you like... but note that a Muslim...Christian...Jew..... and anyone else can also be a kabbalist.

[thirdwave]

I totally agree.

Handful of members on this forum are on about one thing only : hatred for religion.

It's their only topic of discussion.

Not judging... just stating a fact.



Ok.

So we have a set of religions that in most cases have controlled and dictated society over the years.... upheld by the ruling bodies.

You have some people who have adopted a spiritual perspective and have been enlightened in their own way.... like many people on this forum and many people in general.. all experiencing different things relating to there own individual conciousness... this is the true religion, because its natural... any form of this is good and healthy and should not be oppressed... its not about Jesus... not about Allah... Christ.... who ever else... its about Us.... and the individual... now, If that person wants to invent or adopt a set of symbols and practices to assist them in the journey then that is great and very advisable.... this is how it should be... that is if you have a philosophy that is based on freedom... there is no argument here, if you do not share that outlook then it pretty much means that you promote dictatorship... and that we as humans are not free and do not have that right.... Its really very very simple... and one of the reasons I go on about it as it almost frightens me how some cant see this.

But here we have have many organised religions (some which still dictate countries) that want to take control of this, and to dictate and manipulate this movement... where people like LH and even my self are viewed as evil ..mislead... or following the path of Satan.... In the past have been killed because of it.

here we are on a thread created for these very alternate and enlightening subjects... and you have a problem with people banging on about religion?

have you any idea how much religion has effected our world?

You get some come here because they them selves have managed to find a happy corner in it, but wish to smear any criticism of religion and make out that its all wonderful because some people think its ok.... they will even defend their religion and brush off all the "corrupt" stuff like its nothing to do with them..... they are so focused on defending there toy that they wont even share the passion for how the "corrupt side" has raped man kind... Does this not seem odd???... If they really cared would they not be the ones going on about the corruption in religion more than anyone?? ...should they not be the ones challenging the false words.... the false Dogmas ??.. or should we all just keep quite about them?

Have you ever called or viewed someone as a Satanist.... and if so why? .. and what did that mean to you?

[lightgiver]

More long winded nonsense from LH and TW,talk about egotistic and aggrandizement.

That must have took ages to write those long atrabillious posts

Anti capitalist my bottom,you live of the fruits of capitalism.

Only one abuser and accuser here LH its you ,you must think grandiose words makes you appear more intellectual but you lack wisdom,and resorting to insulting others proves this,and this is why your philosophy will never work or even come about.

Kabbalah is a religion no matter how you try and distort it and to state it is not,and your lack of respect for others and their faiths shows your lack of knowledge of other ways of life and cultures.

Your posts may sound good,but lack any substance,and third wave just enjoys arguing and putting others down to make himself appear superior a bit like you LH.

Just my opinion.

BTW religion will be around a lot longer after you both have departed from this earth.

A religion is an organized approach to human spirituality which usually encompasses a set of narratives, symbols, beliefs and practices, often with a supernatural or transcendent quality, that give meaning to the practitioner's experiences of life through reference to a higher power or truth.

Also LH save your unsophisticated insults for the likes of the football thugs,and I have ignored nothing,I am just not wasting my time replying to such narrow-mindedness and shallow insults,maybe you take to many drugs and they are giving you a distorted view of things

You already know my views and opinions,but you appear to avoid these and make things up.

Leading the way out of the past

Yesterday hangs around our necks like a noose; paralysing us, inhibiting us, blocking the path to the future. By holding onto history we repeat the same mistakes over and over again, always stepping into the footprints of our past.

Here we ask - let go of what was, let go of your fear, let go of your anger - accept your place in existence. We are our own creators. Making this world into our image of what life should be. Then why not make it one of mutual respect, of hard work, of integrity, of love. But, most of all make it one that always steps proudly into the future.

Debating is impossible with the likes of you and TW.

[lightgiver]

if what I think oppresses you, then you maybe have other things to address..


BTW TW no one is forced to follow religion its their choice,it appears you are the ones forcing your views on others.

Yes you do oppress and argue,I have experienced you on other posts and how you are with others also who do not go along with you agenda.

Maybe you need more worldly experience.

BTW you do not even know what path I follow,you assume you do,but your assumptions are wrong.


You can reply but I am done here,because it will end up in circles per usual.

[armoured_amazon]

I follow Yeshua, and I agree with the OP

[lightgiver]

[QUOTE=luciferhorus;956940]What is argument? More on Abuse, Sophistry and Contradiction. Some Practical Examples.

Lucifer.

Some examples from Lightgiver here on this forum.

Sophistry

Consider:



Why is Lightgiver's statement sophistry? Well the sentence is both false and also meaningless.

Really,

Religion does not mean just precepts, a temple, monastery, or other external signs,
for these as well as hearing and thinking are subsidiary factors in taming the mind.
When the mind becomes the practices, one is a practitioner of religion,
and when the mind does not become the practices one is not.

People abuse and kill,not religion.

Nothing false and meaningless about that.

and true Christianity as been tainted by others,anti religion people,and sometimes they are the very ones who head these organisations,but killing and destruction will not solve the problem.

The pen is mightier than the sword.

I suppose you LH will be the one leading the revolutionaries,have you ever served in war.?

http://www.strike-the-root.com/62/goslin/goslin1.html

There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil to one who is striking at the root.

and to all you so called anti capitalists,you are benefiting from the fruits of capitalism and live by their fruits.

Otherwise you would not even be on this forum,you may be living in communist china,where your freedom of speech and expression is brutally repressed.

[stewart edwards]

have you ever served in war.?I havent but I have seen several people return form Iraq/Afgan. You can see it in their faces, changed men. War is a tool of darkness pure and simple. A good man may use reasonable force to defend himself, but bullying/warmongering is a very clear sign of darkness ruling. You would have thought that by the twenty first century the human race would have evolved suffiently to respect differences and live together as one people, sharing one planet.

Ask the French Foreign Legion to guard our planet. Many nations working as one.

[lightgiver]

I havent but I have seen several people return form Iraq/Afgan. You can see it in their faces, changed men. War is a tool of darkness pure and simple. A good man may use reasonable force to defend himself, but bullying/warmongering is a very clear sign of darkness ruling. You would have thought that by the twenty first century the human race would have evolved suffiently to respect differences and live together as one people, sharing one planet.

We are aware war is dark,but the person who started this thread is advocating armed revolution,and it strikes me he will not be at the front leading the communist anarchists killing all the religious people.

Why did you not mention any more of the post I typed:confused:

[stewart edwards]

Why did you not mention any more of the post I typed:confused:It wasnt relevant to my point.

Also where possible I try to keep posts short as long posts put me off reading them.

[lightgiver]

It wasnt relevant to my point.

Also where possible I try to keep posts short as long posts put me off reading them.

I agree they put me off from reading them also,but the post I did was not that long;)

I was stating you cannot be against something if you live by its fruits.

and to all you so called anti capitalists,you are benefiting from the fruits of capitalism and live by their fruits.

[thirdwave]

BTW TW no one is forced to follow religion its their choice,it appears you are the ones forcing your views on others.


Then it appears you disagree with many on this thread as others believe they ARE forced to believe in a religion and the methods have been made very very clear.. not all people but a huge amount.... and the religions would not be here today if they were not forced on people..

If you are to arrogant enough to except these alternative views then you only expose again why these dogmas are so poison.


Yes you do oppress and argue,I have experienced you on other posts and how you are with others also who do not go along with you agenda.
I cant be arsed to argue with you about how I argue with people which seems to be the road you want to go down...... I could not care less of what you think of my debating skills .. how about we discuss what's being debated rather than how its done?.. might be less stressful for you.

Maybe you need more worldly experience.
"Maybe" being the right word for you to use seeing as you have no idea what my experience is...

BTW you do not even know what path I follow,you assume you do,but your assumptions are wrong.
I dont care what path you follow.. I am going by what is being discussed on the thread.


You can reply but I am done here,because it will end up in circles per usual.

I take it you have that problem allot then...

have a nice day.

[lightgiver]

LHs thread starter,

On Capitalist Jesus. The Evil of Christianity.
On a Justification for Armed revolution. On a Theology of Liberation. On the Revolutionary Jesus. An Anarchist perspective,

http://www.strike-the-root.com/62/goslin/goslin1.html

and seeing you quote icke,here you go,

If you're fighting the system, you're still in it! - David Icke

Also from a external source,

Religion does not mean just precepts, a temple, monastery, or other external signs,
for these as well as hearing and thinking are subsidiary factors in taming the mind.
When the mind becomes the practices, one is a practitioner of religion,
and when the mind does not become the practices one is not.

[luciferhorus]

Despite being corrected on this matter LG continues to defend his meaningless drivel. The topic of this thread has been effectively changed to 'LG's contradiction, self contradiction, abuse and sophistry (linguistic confusion).'


“Religions do not judge others ,people do.”


and


People abuse and kill,not religion.



The implication here is that religion is a separate phenomenon to 'people;' this is simply not true; there are only religious people; there are no religious texts which have not been written by a religious person, no religious beliefs which are not a person's beliefs, no temple which has not been built by a person; to hold up 'religion' as something 'good' or 'innocent' which is totally unrelated to and independent of religious persons is simply a non-sense.

I should point out that the original essay on this thread argues that the words and behaviour of the Jesus of the Gospels clearly shows him to be an anti-Capitalist / anti-propertyist and an opponent of the organised religion and of the religious establishment of his age; he clearly did not start an organised religion, nor build temples (churches) nor solicit money from the poor, nor sell salvation for Capitalist coin, nor pray in public, nor perform public rites / rituals (bloods), nor set up a priesthood, nor develop a grand system of systematic theology; all this has been done in his name by the proponets of organised religion (i.e., the priesthood of Capital), persons whom I judge as malevolent.

Christianity is a a creation of persons devoted to the god of Capital; such persons whom I judge to be morally worthless (i.e., evil); it is rather in the alleged words of the anti-Capitalist martyr (i.e., the person, Jesus) in which I find some virtue); this is of course the opposite view to LG's, which is that 'religion (a creation of persons)' is somehow good, and entirely unrelated to the evil of religious persons.

To restate.

With regards to LG's numerous defences of 'religion' as some kind of innocent phenomenon which is totally unrelated to 'people,'
religion rather has no 'separate' existence to the phenomemon of human existence and is a creation, created by religious people, thus 'People abuse and kill,not religion,' , is simply a meaningless expression of non-sense.

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd234/last_day_living/jesus_evil_dead.jpg

The religion, for example, of George 'God told me to me invade Iraq' Bush for example cannot be separated from the person of George Bush himself; the religion of the genocidal, infanticidal, homophobic, paternalistic, misogynistic, state terrorist, narco-terrorist, Capitalist God cannot be separated from the persons who are themselves genocidal, infanticidal, homophobic, paternalistic, misogynistic, state terrorist, narco-terrorist, Capitalists

I refer to Marx.


"The criticism of religion has been essentially completed, and the criticism of religion is the prerequisite of all criticism....

Man, who has found only the reflection of himself in the fantastic reality of heaven, where he sought a superman, will no longer feel disposed to find the mere appearance of himself, the non-man [Unmensch], where he seeks and must seek his true reality.

The foundation of irreligious criticism is: Man makes religion, religion does not make man. Religion is, indeed, the self-consciousness and self-esteem of man who has either not yet won through to himself, or has already lost himself again.

But man is no abstract being squatting outside the world. Man is the world of man – state, society. This state and this society produce religion, which is an inverted consciousness of the world, because they are an inverted world.

Religion is the general theory of this world, its encyclopaedic compendium, its logic in popular form, its spiritual point d’honneur, its enthusiasm, its moral sanction, its solemn complement, and its universal basis of consolation and justification. It is the fantastic realization of the human essence since the human essence has not acquired any true reality. The struggle against religion is, therefore, indirectly the struggle against that world whose spiritual aroma is religion.

Religious suffering is, at one and the same time, the expression of real suffering and a protest against real suffering. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people.

The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is the demand for their real happiness. To call on them to give up their illusions about their condition is to call on them to give up a condition that requires illusions. The criticism of religion is, therefore, in embryo, the criticism of that vale of tears of which religion is the halo.

Criticism has plucked the imaginary flowers on the chain not in order that man shall continue to bear that chain without fantasy or consolation, but so that he shall throw off the chain and pluck the living flower. The criticism of religion disillusions man, so that he will think, act, and fashion his reality like a man who has discarded his illusions and regained his senses, so that he will move around himself as his own true Sun. Religion is only the illusory Sun which revolves around man as long as he does not revolve around himself.

It is, therefore, the task of history, once the other-world of truth has vanished, to establish the truth of this world. It is the immediate task of philosophy, which is in the service of history, to unmask self-estrangement in its unholy forms once the holy form of human self-estrangement has been unmasked. Thus, the criticism of Heaven turns into the criticism of Earth, the criticism of religion into the criticism of law, and the criticism of theology into the criticism of politics."

Karl Marx (1843) "A Contribution to the Critique of Hegel’s Philosophy of Right"

[lightgiver]

More wind:p

save your breath for the football hooligans.

Like I say you live on the fruits of capitalism and practise religion,I do not need long winded posts to get this across,seeing you have degree in theology it as not got you far.

I suppose you will at the front leading the troops eh,more like at the back.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njG7p6CSbCU

As soon as you're born they make you feel small
By giving you no time instead of it all
Till the pain is so big you feel nothing at all

A working class hero is something to be
A working class hero is something to be

They hurt you at home and they hit you at school
They hate you if you're clever and they despise a fool
Till you're so fucking crazy you can't follow their rules

A working class hero is something to be
A working class hero is something to be

When they've tortured and scared you for twenty odd years
Then they expect you to pick a career
When you can't really function you're so full of fear

A working class hero is something to be
A working class hero is something to be

Keep you doped with religion and sex and TV
And you think you're so clever and class less and free
But you're still fucking peasants as far as I can see

A working class hero is something to be
A working class hero is something to be

There's room at the top they are telling you still
But first you must learn how to smile as you kill
If you want to be like the folks on the hill

A working class hero is something to be
A working class hero is something to be

If you want to be a hero well just follow me
If you want to be a hero well just follow me

BTW I am defending Peoples freedoms,whatever label it may be.

If you lived in Communist China do you think you would be on here giving an opinion.

Save your commie ideology's for the oppressors.

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?p=929368&posted=1#post929368

True Anarchy stays well clear of violence.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkwNFPJBFLo

Hey what's up doc.

The process of labelling by the Feeling Aggregate usually only takes a fraction of a second. After applying the label, we tend to create a static opinion and image of the object in our mind. At this stage, the seed for prejudice is usually planted. Once we have established the opinion that something is pleasant or unpleasant, we often need a large amount of evidence before we are willing to change our mind - that is, if we are prepared to change our mind at all.
Once we labelled an object unpleasant or bad, it appears as if the object is all bad by itself, as if badness is an inherent quality. We may label a person "bad", but the friends of this person would certainly not agree!
Therefore, we need to realise that "good" and "bad" are merely subjective opinions of our mind, and the opinion is often founded on nothing more than a first glance and an almost automatic label. Things and people change quicker than our labels! Everyone tends to prejudice. Labelling is a convenient way to quickly make some sense of our surrounding world by categorising things in being "good" or "bad" to us. The main problem is that we tend to react to the world merely via these (over) simplified labels.

Maybe George and Tony were using god as an excuse,ever thought of that,a good way to turn people off god and religion,and introduce your ideology's.

great plan of the Illuminati,and to bring in the doctrine of Lucifer,another form of religion.

[lightgiver]

Now Lucifer Quotes Marx,Karl Marx (1843) "A Contribution to the Critique of Hegel’s Philosophy of Right"

now why as Marx got his hand in his jacket?

http://img117.imageshack.us/img117/8369/karlmarxmed.jpg (http://img117.imageshack.us/my.php?image=karlmarxmed.jpg)

and Lucifer claims to be anti mason:confused: Double speak.

http://www.whale.to/b/33.html scroll down on link,

Initial List of 33rd Degree Masons,and Marx is on it,along with pike,

Karl Marx
(Baron) Yves Marsaudon
Joseph Mazzini
Lord Alfred Milner
Francoir Mitterand
Henry Morgenthau
G. Bromley Oxnam
Henry Palmerston
Albert Pike

Communist Goal

The ultimate goal of the Communists and their creator, the Illuminati, is to dissolve the American Republic. They were to destroy every nation and religion on earth, and crush the American dream so that we will be merged into a faceless numbering system for international control in a world government. To achieve their goal, they [liberals] have to attack religious orthodoxy and American nationalism in the schoolrooms across America.

http://www.angelfire.com/music2/fullcircle/mas2.html

Communism has been the main instrument of the Illuminati. (The Communist anniversary May 1st refers to the date the Illuminati was founded in 1776.) The Protocols of the Elders of Zion was probably an Illuminati document disguised as a Jewish one. Certainly, Jews like Karl Marx and Leon Trotsky dominated Communism but they were Freemasons first. They did not represent the Jewish people.

http://100777.com/node/85

[luciferhorus]

On Strength. On the Art of War and the Art of Debate (The dialectic).

http://supertarot.co.uk/image/lust.jpg

Dear L.G / Lucifer (to bring forth Light/Fire)

Please allow me to assist you in your Rage against me.

The great warrior not only understands his (or her) own strengths and weaknesses, but also that of his (or her) enemies.

Plase read http://flag.blackened.net/daver/anarchism/kropotkin/anmoral.html

and

http://flag.blackened.net/daver/anarchism/kropotkin/atty.html

and

http://flag.blackened.net/daver/anarchism/kropotkin/defanarchy.html

and:

http://flag.blackened.net/daver/anarchism/kropotkin/index.html

And other articles and essays on this subject.

Please familiarise yoursellf with

http://www.infoshop.org/faq/index.html (http://www.infoshop.org/faq/index.html)


And then when mutual criticism breaks out between us, you will at least understand better the ideology of your Anarchist adversary; but at the moment, you are punching a straw man.

I would prefer your attacks to be against me, rather than simply punching at some figment of your imagination; which is currently the case

If you are unfamiliar with the term 'straw man' term, please read:

Read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

To restate: The great warrior not only understands himself (or herself), but also fully understands the ideology (the ideas) of his (or her) enemies.

I often quote Marx, George Bush, Icke, Mao, Hilter, Ho Chi, Pol Pot, Lenin, Trotsky, Che, Fidel, Dawkins, my father (etc., etc) and the words of those whom I am not in total agreement with, but if you assume that I have suspended all criticism of them, this constitutes a 'straw man' argument and you are attacking them and not me, and thus you are defeated in argument before you write a single word.

I would rather have an intelligent, educated, and informed enemy to debate with than a 'fool,' punching at a 'straw man,' for the Internet is full of the latter; while the former is very rare.

I am merley assisting you in your 'Rage' against me; that you will be a better and more informed adversary; I have little time to debate with fools.

Some time ago I sent you my personal details (my phone number etc.); don't take this as flattery; I tend to do this with both my allies and enemies.

I am not 'Anonymous;' on the contrary; for example I ran as an independent Communist in the 2001 parliamentary election in Lambeth / Brixton; I have no covert disguise here; I am not 'covert' and 'Anonymous' as many here are; I am overt.

Anonymous exists for the many victims of religious cultism who are afraid of reprisals from their wealthier and more powerful enemies; I on the other hand am overt and fearless and known to the police and the assortment of Masonic cultists, state terrorist collaboraters and to the devotees of the god of Capital (i.e., the Christians); my allies and my enemies all know who I am; I have never been very far from the military bases of the state terrorists, and my enemies and allies are already without a single doubt as to my true identity.

Speak to me any time you wish. I am always here for you.

LL


Lux

http://www.luciferia.tv/animation/A.gif


http://www.luciferia.tv/1ChildrenOftheSlaves/anarchism2sm.jpg

[lightgiver]

I have no rage against anyone,just stating my opinion,that's what freedom and liberty is,you would not be allowed to state an opinion in China.

Did yeshua not state to love thy enemies.

"'Righteous hatred' is in the same category as 'righteous cancer 'righteous tuberculosis'. All of them are absurd concepts."

On one occasion, the Buddha was invited by the Brahmin Bharadvaja for alms to his house. As invited, the Buddha visited the house of the Brahmin. Instead of entertaining Him, the Brahmin poured forth a torrent of abuse with the filthiest of words. The Buddha politely inquired:

"Do visitors come to your house, good Brahmin?"
"Yes," he replied.
"What do you do when they come?"
"Oh, we prepare a sumptuous feast."
"What do you if they refuse to receive the meal?"
"Why, we gladly partake of them ourselves."
"Well, good Brahmin, you have invited me for alms and entertained me with abuse which I decline to accept. So now it belongs to you."
From the Akkosa Sutta

The Buddha did not retaliate but politely gave back what the Brahmin had given Him. Retaliate not, the Buddha advised. "Hatred does not cease through hatred but through love alone they cease."

[luciferhorus]

Did yeshua not state to love thy enemies.

"'Righteous hatred' is in the same category as 'righteous cancer 'righteous tuberculosis'. All of them are absurd concepts."


I have responded to you on this matter already in the 'What is Anarchism?' thread and my 'Capitalist Jesus' thread on liberation theology further deals with this.

Further bear in mind that I am an overtly stated evangelical anti-Christian; I am not a follower of Jesus or indeed of anyone; I consider Jesus to be an anti-Capitalist, anti-religionist primitivist Communist martyr and an ancestor; I do not consider Jesus to be an intellectual authority on modern Anarchism; some of his stated positions I accept and others I do not; further being homeless and having only one robe is an expression of Communist primitivism; Israeli Communism is today a long way from such primitivism of 2000 years ago and represents a 'technological / scientific,' and 'agriculturally collectivist' form of Communism.

To restate:

Cherry Picking and the Final Holocaust.

It is common for Christians to 'cherry pick' the New Testament, quoting only what they agree with, and commonly ignoring the anti-capitalism and militancy of Jesus; my essay on Jesus and Liberation theology on this forum deals with this; Jesus and his companions were clearly armed and militant; further if one is committed to the separation of the wheat (the anti-capitalists) from the chaff (the capitalists) and the casting of the Capitalists into the fire; this requires a genocidal militancy; further the depiction of the Final War of Armageddon in the Book of Revelation is hardly an encouragement for pacifism; on the contrary; only a militant and genocidal strategy could rid the world of the Capitalists in the way depicted; revolutionary war by the sword, fire, plague and poisoned waters; only in the aftermath of revolutionary war, beyond the Final Holocaust, the destruction of the kingdom of Capital and the total defeat of the armies of the god of Capital is peace predicted.

LL

Lux

[lightgiver]

I have responded to you on this matter already in the 'What is Anarchism?' thread and my 'Capitalist Jesus' thread on liberation theology further deals with this.

Further bear in mind that I am an overtly stated evangelical anti-Christian; I am not a follower of Jesus or indeed of anyone; I consider Jesus to be an anti-Capitalist, anti-religionist primitivist Communist martyr and an ancestor; I do not consider Jesus to be an intellectual authority on modern Anarchism; some of his stated positions I accept and others I do not; further being homeless and having only one robe is an expression of Communist primitivism; Israeli Communism is today a long way from such primitivism of 2000 years ago and represents a 'technological / scientific,' and 'agriculturally collectivist' form of Communism.

To restate:

Cherry Picking and the Final Holocaust.

It is common for Christians to 'cherry pick' the New Testament, quoting only what they agree with, and commonly ignoring the anti-capitalism and militancy of Jesus; my essay on Jesus and Liberation theology on this forum deals with this; Jesus and his companions were clearly armed and militant; further if one is committed to the separation of the wheat (the anti-capitalists) from the chaff (the capitalists) and the casting of the Capitalists into the fire; this requires a genocidal militancy; further the depiction of the Final War of Armageddon in the Book of Revelation is hardly an encouragement for pacifism; on the contrary; only a militant and genocidal strategy could rid the world of the Capitalists in the way depicted; revolutionary war by the sword, fire, plague and poisoned waters; only in the aftermath of revolutionary war, beyond the Final Holocaust, the destruction of the kingdom of Capital and the total defeat of the armies of the god of Capital is peace predicted.

LL

Lux

Well if you are a follower of no one,do not expect many to follow you:)

LG

[luciferhorus]

Well if you are a follower of no one,do not expect many to follow you:)

LG


I seek no followers (sheep) who suspend all critical thinking; I to prefer to fratenalise with free thinkers. Anarchism is a political philosophy not a cult religion, nor a political party, nor a cult of personality.

LL

Lux

'Neither slaves nor masters be'

[lightgiver]

I seek no followers (sheep) who suspend all critical thinking; I to prefer to fratenalise with free thinkers. Anarchism is a political philosophy not a cult religion, nor a political party, nor a cult of personality.

LL

Lux

'Neither slaves nor masters be'

So how is this war of yours going to unfold then?

I will receive your answer later,off to bed.

God Night:)

[luciferhorus]

So how is this war of yours going to unfold then?


The Revelation of John: an Israeli Communist perspective.
Lucifer
Aeon of Lucifer 2009
Morning Star.


John’s revelation would be quite familiar to those who have had experiences with shamanic substances which induce visions; you will find numerous shamanic trip reports on erowid.org.

Although such visions are common and there is often a message in such visions; it is much like a 'lucid dream' which should be not be taken too literally.

If we have a dream where for example, we are fighting a 7 headed beast, this dream may have an important message for us; but if we expect to see a 7 headed beast in real life, we will be disappointed and will probably lose the real 'meaning of the dream.



The point of prophecy is not to predict the future, but to change the future.

I often speak in a prophetical manner of the wars and revolutions to come in the future; I am not merely 'predicting' such things; I am seeking to evoke such prophecies to life.


The Anti-Messiah
There is an Anti-Messiah who seeks total financial control over the world (that none may buy or sell without his permission or mark). He has the power to cast fire down from the sky.

Militant Resistance; the armies of heaven; the righteous of Israel.

This constitutes

1: The Seven Angels (servants) of the Apocalypse; these would be the initiators of apocalyptic guerrila war.
2: The 144,000 righteous of Israel; the Revolutionary Vanguard. In a population of 6 billion, this would amount to no more than about 30,000 Israeli Communists.
3: The armies of the 200 million; these we must expect to be the masses who have been among the victimised by the devotees of the god of Capital and who are committed to armed violent revolution in all the world. In the aftermath of Armageddon, when Capital becomes worthless and the supermarkets of Capitalism empty, we should expect that many will rise in revolution.

Nuclear War. The total nuclear destruction of Rome

The attacks of the 7 angels could 'only' be carried out using non-conventional weapons. The king of Capitalism has built his kingdom surrounded by giant weapons dumps (nuclear power stations); these are the Achilles' Heel of the Capitalists; once these are detonated in the forthcoming nuclear guerrilla war; the economic command and control centres of the capitalists shall be no more; Capitalism shall implode on itself; currencies will collapse, economies will collapse; the old shall eat their young; their kings will crawl into their caves and beg their Capitalist god for death.

Frankly the only way to defeat the Capitalists is by nuclear guerrilla war. The idea of 7 people bringing down Capitalism could only be achieved in such a manner. To destroy Rome and Vatican City in the blink of an eye as depicted by John is now possible.


The defeat of the Anti-Messiah

Eventually with his kingdom in ruins, he and his armies are ultimately defeated and the birds of the air eat their flesh; he is captured and burnt.

Day of Judgement.

There is of course a holocaust of the enemies of the Communists; the wheat (the anti-Capitalists) are separated from the chaff and the chaff cast into the fire.


New Jerusalem .City of Light. Zion. 'Lebensraum' for the liberated slaves.

The New Jerusalem is described as a giant 'square' city whose city walls run for about 1200 miles; one side of the wall alone would be the distance between Glasgow and London; thus it is more what we would refer to as a 'nation' than a city.

It will be an illuminated transparent City where there is no Temple, no night or day, where nothing is bought or sold and where sickness and human suffering have passed away. This will of course require electricity and advanced medical technology; this is all quite possible.

A City without a Temple where nothing is bought or sold is the Communist agenda; 'not' the agenda of Capitalist Christians.

The 1000 Year Agricultural Revolution.

Weapons are melted down and turned into agricultural implements.

Then shall begin the 1000 Year agricultural revolution. There shall be peace for a 1000 years.

All this is the agenda of modern Israeli Communism; it is we who are the vanguard of Revolution; Christian Capitalism is simply a mockery of the anti-Capitalist teachings of Jesus.

Long have the Vanguard of Revolution been speaking to all peoples and nations from the sky, judging the living and the dead; forewarning of the apocalypse to come.

Great and Terrible and Dreadful and Wrathful shall be the day of Judgement.

Like a thief in the night, on the clouds of heaven, in a moment when expected least, Capitalism's kingdom shall turn to dust. It will not be a miracle.

Propaganda is the First Stage of War.
Physics is War.

Love and Light

Lux
Babylon shall Fall.
The 1000 Year Revolution of Light.
Fire, plague and poisoned waters.
No mercy on they who deserve none.


To be GOVERNED is to be watched, inspected, spied upon, directed, law-driven, numbered, regulated, enrolled, indoctrinated, preached at, controlled, checked, estimated, valued, censured, commanded, by creatures who have neither the right nor the wisdom nor the virtue to do so. To be GOVERNED is to be at every operation, at every transaction noted, registered, counted, taxed, stamped, measured, numbered, assessed, licensed, authorized, admonished, prevented, forbidden, reformed, corrected, punished. It is, under pretext of public utility, and in the name of the general interest, to be place[d] under contribution, drilled, fleeced, exploited, monopolized, extorted from, squeezed, hoaxed, robbed; then, at the slightest resistance, the first word of complaint, to be repressed, fined, vilified, harassed, hunted down, abused, clubbed, disarmed, bound, choked, imprisoned, judged, condemned, shot, deported, sacrificed, sold, betrayed; and to crown all, mocked, ridiculed, derided, outraged, dishonoured. That is government; that is its justice; that is its morality. P.-J. Proudhon, General Idea of the Revolution in the Nineteenth Century

[zero1]

The Revelation of John: an Israeli Communist perspective.
Lucifer
Aeon of Lucifer 2009
Morning Star.


John’s revelation would be quite familiar to those who have had experiences with shamanic substances which induce visions; you will find numerous shamanic trip reports on erowid.org.

Although such visions are common and there is often a message in such visions; it is much like a 'lucid dream' which should be not be taken too literally.

If we have a dream where for example, we are fighting a 7 headed beast, this dream may have an important message for us; but if we expect to see a 7 headed beast in real life, we will be disappointed and will probably lose the real 'meaning of the dream.



The point of prophecy is not to predict the future, but to change the future.

I often speak in a prophetical manner of the wars and revolutions to come in the future; I am not merely 'predicting' such things; I am seeking to evoke such prophecies to life.


The Anti-Messiah
There is an Anti-Messiah who seeks total financial control over the world (that none may buy or sell without his permission or mark). He has the power to cast fire down from the sky.

Militant Resistance; the armies of heaven; the righteous of Israel.

This constitutes

1: The Seven Angels (servants) of the Apocalypse; these would be the initiators of apocalyptic guerrila war.
2: The 144,000 righteous of Israel; the Revolutionary Vanguard. In a population of 6 billion, this would amount to no more than about 30,000 Israeli Communists.
3: The armies of the 200 million; these we must expect to be the masses who have been among the victimised by the devotees of the god of Capital and who are committed to armed violent revolution in all the world. In the aftermath of Armageddon, when Capital becomes worthless and the supermarkets of Capitalism empty, we should expect that many will rise in revolution.

Nuclear War. The total nuclear destruction of Rome

The attacks of the 7 angels could 'only' be carried out using non-conventional weapons. The king of Capitalism has built his kingdom surrounded by giant weapons dumps (nuclear power stations); these are the Achilles' Heel of the Capitalists; once these are detonated in the forthcoming nuclear guerrilla war; the economic command and control centres of the capitalists shall be no more; Capitalism shall implode on itself; currencies will collapse, economies will collapse; the old shall eat their young; their kings will crawl into their caves and beg their Capitalist god for death.

Frankly the only way to defeat the Capitalists is by nuclear guerrilla war. The idea of 7 people bringing down Capitalism could only be achieved in such a manner. To destroy Rome and Vatican City in the blink of an eye as depicted by John is now possible.


The defeat of the Anti-Messiah

Eventually with his kingdom in ruins, he and his armies are ultimately defeated and the birds of the air eat their flesh; he is captured and burnt.

Day of Judgement.

There is of course a holocaust of the enemies of the Communists; the wheat (the anti-Capitalists) are separated from the chaff and the chaff cast into the fire.


New Jerusalem .City of Light. Zion. 'Lebensraum' for the liberated slaves.

The New Jerusalem is described as a giant 'square' city whose city walls run for about 1200 miles; one side of the wall alone would be the distance between Glasgow and London; thus it is more what we would refer to as a 'nation' than a city.

It will be an illuminated transparent City where there is no Temple, no night or day, where nothing is bought or sold and where sickness and human suffering have passed away. This will of course require electricity and advanced medical technology; this is all quite possible.

A City without a Temple where nothing is bought or sold is the Communist agenda; 'not' the agenda of Capitalist Christians.

The 1000 Year Agricultural Revolution.

Weapons are melted down and turned into agricultural implements.

Then shall begin the 1000 Year agricultural revolution. There shall be peace for a 1000 years.

All this is the agenda of modern Israeli Communism; it is we who are the vanguard of Revolution; Christian Capitalism is simply a mockery of the anti-Capitalist teachings of Jesus.

Long have the Vanguard of Revolution been speaking to all peoples and nations from the sky, judging the living and the dead; forewarning of the apocalypse to come.

Great and Terrible and Dreadful and Wrathful shall be the day of Judgement.

Like a thief in the night, on the clouds of heaven, in a moment when expected least, Capitalism's kingdom shall turn to dust. It will not be a miracle.

Propaganda is the First Stage of War.
Physics is War.

Love and Light

Lux
Babylon shall Fall.
The 1000 Year Revolution of Light.
Fire, plague and poisoned waters.
No mercy on they who deserve none.


To be GOVERNED is to be watched, inspected, spied upon, directed, law-driven, numbered, regulated, enrolled, indoctrinated, preached at, controlled, checked, estimated, valued, censured, commanded, by creatures who have neither the right nor the wisdom nor the virtue to do so. To be GOVERNED is to be at every operation, at every transaction noted, registered, counted, taxed, stamped, measured, numbered, assessed, licensed, authorized, admonished, prevented, forbidden, reformed, corrected, punished. It is, under pretext of public utility, and in the name of the general interest, to be place[d] under contribution, drilled, fleeced, exploited, monopolized, extorted from, squeezed, hoaxed, robbed; then, at the slightest resistance, the first word of complaint, to be repressed, fined, vilified, harassed, hunted down, abused, clubbed, disarmed, bound, choked, imprisoned, judged, condemned, shot, deported, sacrificed, sold, betrayed; and to crown all, mocked, ridiculed, derided, outraged, dishonoured. That is government; that is its justice; that is its morality. P.-J. Proudhon, General Idea of the Revolution in the Nineteenth Century

Great post.

[grandsecretary]

Grate post.

[lightgiver]

Grate post.

very grated post.

and superfluous supercilious as usual.

explain zero why its so great or grated which ever you choose.

Did you know LH lives off the fruits of capitalism and quote the likes of Marx ,a Freemason,yet pours scorn on masons.

oh and practises religion also.

are you going to join his bloody revolution?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEKhl1-G7Jo

You say you want a revolution
Well, you know
We all want to change the world
You tell me that it's evolution
Well, you know
We all want to change the world
But when you talk about destruction
Don't you know that you can count me out?

You say you've got a real solution
Well, you know
We'd all love to see the plan
You ask me for a contribution
Well, you know
We are doing what we can
But if you want money for people with minds that hate
All I can tell is, brother, you'll have to wait

You say you'll change the constitution
Well, you know
We all want to change your head
You tell me it's the institution
Well, you know
You'd better free your mind instead
But if you go carrying pictures of Chairman Mao
You ain't gonna make it with anyone anyhow

I prefer to Quote Lennon.

Christian capitalism,I have never in all my life heard such nonsense.

[zero1]

Explain zero why its so great or grated which ever you choose.

It's great because of the Bakunin quote, and LuciferHorus' interpretation of the Book of Revelation is the closest I've seen to what I believe to be the absolute truth of Christian eschatology.

Did you know LH lives off the fruits of capitalism and quote the likes of Marx, a Freemason, yet pours scorn on masons. Oh and practises religion also. Are you going to join his bloody revolution?

We have no choice but to compete in the capitalist society @ present because that is the dominant paradigm at the moment. Ppl who are against Capitalism still have to practice it to subsist, unfortunately. What would u have them do, commit suicide or starve to death to make a point?

A quote can be meaningful independent of the beliefs of its author.

LuciferHorus' religious beliefs are his own, but he has also condemned religion here, and seems to identify mostly as an ideologue (anarcho-communalism).

Either way, if his bloody revolution comes to fruition, I am ready to do my part.

Christian capitalism,I have never in all my life heard such nonsense.

Well that's the point, it is nonsense - one cannot be a real Christian and be a Capitalist as well without being mainly a Hypocrite.

[lightgiver]

It's great because of the Bakunin quote, and LuciferHorus' interpretation of the Book of Revelation is the closest I've seen to what I believe to be the absolute truth of Christian eschatology.



We have no choice but to compete in the capitalist society @ present because that is the dominant paradigm at the moment. Ppl who are against Capitalism still have to practice it to subsist, unfortunately. What would u have them do, commit suicide or starve to death to make a point?

A quote can be meaningful independent of the beliefs of its author.

LuciferHorus' religious beliefs are his own, but he has also condemned religion here, and seems to identify mostly as an ideologue (anarcho-communalism).

Either way, if his bloody revolution comes to fruition, I am ready to do my part.



Well that's the point, it is nonsense - one cannot be a real Christian and be a Capitalist as well without being mainly a Hypocrite.

Absolute bunkum.

How can you sit there you and him spout off anti capitalism ,and be on here the net which is here because of capitalism and all the comfortable life's you lead and preach bloody revolutions.

If you are all so passionate get off the net and start being a real revolutionary,and follow the likes of che,you haven't got the bottle.

yeah I bet you will be at the front with LH leading the mad hatters into even more death and destruction,I have never read so much nonsense in my life.

More like armchair warriors.:rolleyes:

You lot will believe any old tripe.

You just sound like the persecutors of old,throw the Christians to the lions, you have gone down in my estimations,I thought you had more gumption about you,obviously I was wrong.

You don't know you are born,compared to a lot who live in oppressive communist backward dictatorships.

BTW give us the low down on how LHs interpretation of the book of revelation is correct?

If you are unsure on the word apocalypse,it just means lifting of the veil and has been misinterpreted by those who hide falsely behind the true teachings of Christ (the Anti Christ's.)but no one can get this and continually blame Christianity for the worlds ills,and if its not Christianity its Muslims or some other label.

You really need to wake up,you are all falling right into the hands of the Illuminati or Moriah conquering wind whatever label is given to those who run things behind the scenes.

[luciferhorus]

If you are unsure on the word apocalypse,it just means lifting of the veil and has been misinterpreted by those who hide falsely behind the true teachings of Christ

Well the original essay on this thread does attempt to deal with the 'true teachings' of the anti-Capitalist, anti-propertyist, revolutionary martyr, Jesus.

Clearly you are coming from an anti-Communist perspective; thus I must ask you, what do you 'consider to be the true teachings of Christ?'

Generally you tend to practice contradiction, but I must point out, that 'I don't agree with that' is not an argument; an argument would state 'I don't agree with that because X, Y Z.'

I am assuming, if I understand you correctly, that you believe that Jesus was an anti-Communist and a Capitalist like yourself, but you need to offer some evidence and argument to that extent.

LL

Lux

[lightgiver]

Well the original essay on this thread does attempt to deal with the 'true teachings' of the anti-Capitalist, anti-propertyist, revolutionary martyr, Jesus.

Clearly you are coming from an anti-Communist perspective; thus I must ask you, what do you 'consider to be the true teachings of Christ?'

Generally you tend to practice contradiction, but I must point out, that 'I don't agree with that' is not an argument; an argument would state 'I don't agree with that because X, Y Z.'

I am assuming, if I understand you correctly, that you believe that Jesus was an anti-Communist and a Capitalist like yourself, but you need to offer some evidence and argument to that extent.

LL

Lux

You are an hypocrite,

why do you not just get off your butt and do something about it then like CHE instead of ranting on here.

You just use a lot of confusion and double speak and yet you constantly contradict.

You live off the fruits of what you preach against,you need to lay off the drugs.

I bet you live in a property,it was not long back you were showing off your handy work in your HOUSE :rolleyes:

go and live in a caravan,you would last 2 minutes.

I will show you the true teachings of Christ when the time is ready,but if you read my posts you would already know this.:)

I am anti nothing.BTW.

[lightgiver]

Master Jesus was a fallen bodhisattva who upraised himself again with supreme sacrifices. Since many spiritualist devotees do not know what a fallen bodhisattva is, here we give the following explanation.

The Innermost has two twin souls, the Divine and the Human. The bodhisattva is the Human Soul. Thus, when a Master (the Innermost) wants to reincarnate, he sends ahead of him his Human Soul (or bodhisattva) to reincarnate. Then his Human Soul enters the maternal womb and is born like any ordinary child; nonetheless, we understand that such a child is a bodhisattva (Human Soul) of a Master. If these bodhisattvas want to incarnate their Innermost (Divine Master) within themselves, then they have to prepare themselves in order to achieve it.

The Inner Master is a perfect amalgamation of the Innermost with the Divine Soul; these are already integrally fused within him. The Innermost is masculine and his Divine Soul (the consciousness) is feminine. The outcome of this mixture is a perfect divine hermaphrodite; this perfect hermaphrodite-spirit is the internal Master; this is the Master who sends ahead his Human Soul to reincarnate and prepare. Thus, when the bodhisattva is prepared, the Inner-Master enters into him; when this happens, we state that the Master has been born.

Therefore, when we state that Jesus was born in a manger, we are esoterically affirming the spiritual birth of Jesus. The manger of Bethlehem is only a symbol. The spirit of wisdom (Ruach Chokmah-El = Christ) always reincarnates in this manger of the world in order to save the wretched, suffering humanity from the animals of the manger: the human passions.

Often, it happens that when the bodhisattva (Human Soul) of any given Master falls, then such a Master cannot reincarnate.

The Master never falls; yet his bodhisattva is human and can fall (sin). So, when a bodhisattva allows himself to fall, he as a fallen bodhisattva is then sent to reincarnate again in a new body in order to pay his debts; however, if he does not successfully upraise himself again, he is then sent to reincarnate again and again, each time in increasingly difficult conditions. When he finally upraises himself again, then the Inner Master enters within him in order to fulfill a great work.

Understand that Jesus is the bodhisattva of a Master, who was born in a temple. Jesus was a fallen bodhisattva, yet he upraised himself again with supreme efforts and sacrifices.

Thus, the birth of Jesus relates to his spiritual birth, which is the birth of “The sons of God... which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.” - John 1:12, 13


BTW LH, we all have Christ spirit or Christ consciousnesses, you should know this,one as to tap into it to understand it.

Just because a few TPTB claim to be Christians this does not mean they are practising the true teachings of Christ.

They are more than likely practising the teachings of Lucifer.

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=63784

and you very well know it.

4th Century.
The Legend says, The Book is still worshipped today in high circles within the
Papacy of Rome.
The Legend says, The Book was first seen by common men after a copy was taken
during the sacking of Rome by the Vandals.
The Legend says, The Book was worshipped throughout the Ages by many Secret
Societies, such as The Templars and the Priory De Sion.
The Legend says, The Book gives great power to its disciples, and men such as
Copernicus, Galileo, Nostradamus and Isaac Newton have worshipped it.
The Legend says, you must create a copy of The Book with your own blood, when
you are elected as a leader in one of these Secret Societies that still worship The
Book today.
The Legend says, that if you add even one word to this book, you shall be cursed
by all the powers of Lucifer mentioned within…

Page 18
XIII
Mandoto Luciferius
Commands of Lucifer
Homicidium facies adulterabis facies furtum falsum testimonium dices
Thou shalt murder, commit adultery, steal, bear false witness

[luciferhorus]

Master Jesus was a fallen bodhisattva who upraised himself again with supreme sacrifices. Since many spiritualist devotees do not know what a fallen bodhisattva is, here we give the following explanation.

The Innermost has two twin souls, the Divine and the Human. The bodhisattva is the Human Soul. Thus, when a Master (the Innermost) wants to reincarnate, he sends ahead of him his Human Soul (or bodhisattva) to reincarnate. Then his Human Soul enters the maternal womb and is born like any ordinary child; nonetheless, we understand that such a child is a bodhisattva (Human Soul) of a Master. If these bodhisattvas want to incarnate their Innermost (Divine Master) within themselves, then they have to prepare themselves in order to achieve it.

The Inner Master is a perfect amalgamation of the Innermost with the Divine Soul; these are already integrally fused within him. The Innermost is masculine and his Divine Soul (the consciousness) is feminine. The outcome of this mixture is a perfect divine hermaphrodite; this perfect hermaphrodite-spirit is the internal Master; this is the Master who sends ahead his Human Soul to reincarnate and prepare. Thus, when the bodhisattva is prepared, the Inner-Master enters into him; when this happens, we state that the Master has been born.

Therefore, when we state that Jesus was born in a manger, we are esoterically affirming the spiritual birth of Jesus. The manger of Bethlehem is only a symbol. The spirit of wisdom (Ruach Chokmah-El = Christ) always reincarnates in this manger of the world in order to save the wretched, suffering humanity from the animals of the manger: the human passions.

Often, it happens that when the bodhisattva (Human Soul) of any given Master falls, then such a Master cannot reincarnate.

The Master never falls; yet his bodhisattva is human and can fall (sin). So, when a bodhisattva allows himself to fall, he as a fallen bodhisattva is then sent to reincarnate again in a new body in order to pay his debts; however, if he does not successfully upraise himself again, he is then sent to reincarnate again and again, each time in increasingly difficult conditions. When he finally upraises himself again, then the Inner Master enters within him in order to fulfill a great work.

Understand that Jesus is the bodhisattva of a Master, who was born in a temple. Jesus was a fallen bodhisattva, yet he upraised himself again with supreme efforts and sacrifices.

Thus, the birth of Jesus relates to his spiritual birth, which is the birth of “The sons of God... which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.” - John 1:12, 13


BTW LH, we all have Christ spirit or Christ consciousnesses, you should know this,one as to tap into it to understand it.

Just because a few TPTB claim to be Christians this does not mean they are practising the true teachings of Christ.

They are more than likely practising the teachings of Lucifer.

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=63784

and you very well know it.

4th Century.
The Legend says, The Book is still worshipped today in high circles within the
Papacy of Rome.
The Legend says, The Book was first seen by common men after a copy was taken
during the sacking of Rome by the Vandals.
The Legend says, The Book was worshipped throughout the Ages by many Secret
Societies, such as The Templars and the Priory De Sion.
The Legend says, The Book gives great power to its disciples, and men such as
Copernicus, Galileo, Nostradamus and Isaac Newton have worshipped it.
The Legend says, you must create a copy of The Book with your own blood, when
you are elected as a leader in one of these Secret Societies that still worship The
Book today.
The Legend says, that if you add even one word to this book, you shall be cursed
by all the powers of Lucifer mentioned within…

Page 18
XIII
Mandoto Luciferius
Commands of Lucifer
Homicidium facies adulterabis facies furtum falsum testimonium dices
Thou shalt murder, commit adultery, steal, bear false witness

Frankly this is all sophistry. It is a depoliticalisation of the teachings of Jesus and has nothing to do with him.

Lux
http://www.luciferia.tv/animation/A.gif

[lightgiver]

Frankly this is all sophistry. It is a depoliticalisation of the teachings of Jesus and has nothing to do with him.

Lux
http://www.luciferia.tv/animation/A.gif

Well it would be,

According to the Book of Lucifer,when it suits.

God Night:) for now.

[1977]

BTW LH, we all have Christ spirit or Christ consciousnesses, you should know this,one as to tap into it to understand it.

Page 18
XIII
Mandoto Luciferius
Commands of Lucifer
Homicidium facies adulterabis facies furtum falsum testimonium dices
Thou shalt murder, commit adultery, steal, bear false witness
lucifer h is kind of annoying but you realize this book is a joke, right? most of the quotes are straight from the bible.

[lightgiver]

lucifer h is kind of annoying but you realize this book is a joke, right? most of the quotes are straight from the bible.

Did you do any research on the book,yes I am aware some of the quotes are from the bible.:)

http://www.lulu.com/content/2730188

Ketab-e-siyah

http://books.google.fr/books?id=4WW6Pw_uOr8C&pg=PA391&lpg=PA391&dq=Ben+Shakur&source=bl&ots=OQUF4Qy-d5&sig=Nu-5p3o5091i7eI8x6t2igstm9c&hl=en&ei=PaP8ScaUFMLLjAf19pmiAw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5#PPA395,M1

[lightgiver]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aR_TI0ZY-_Q

Incarnation of Awakened Wisdom.

Light and Darkness, life and death, right and left, are brothers of one another. They are inseparable. Because of this neither are the good good, nor evil evil, nor is life life, nor death death. For this reason each one will dissolve into its earliest origin. But those who are exalted above the world are indissoluble, eternal.

[1977]

Did you do any research on the book,yes I am aware some of the quotes are from the bible.:)

Did you? http://spiritualsatanist.blogspot.com/2008/12/review-book-of-lucifer.html

The original edition of Livri Luciferi is a 'translated' version by a person named "Sollog Immanuel Adonai Adonai [PDF]" who runs a 'prophecy website', and he has undoubtedly gotten much attention for releasing this book on the internet.

Supposedly this document was created by a Jewish man named Ben Shakur, and translated into the Vulgate version, which is available in English. The Livri Luciferi [or Livri Luciferius, The Book of Lucifer] is an internet document that was "originally written on the parchment of human skin in human blood" and worse yet, according to the author's warning there is a 'Curse of Lucifer' in the book.

I researched the name "Ben Shakur" It is not a Jewish name, it is Arabian. the alternate form is Shakir and translated it means "Grateful, or Thankful". I seriously doubt the claims of the author at that point.

The author claims that the oldest version of this book is from the 4th century, a translation created by Pope Sylvester. Through comparisons of the verses in this document, I was able to find that the Latin text of the Livri Luciferi matches, word for word, the Stuttgart edition of the Biblia Sacra Vulgata [the Latin vulgar edition], first printed in 1969. At this point I was convinced that this document was created in modern times, by a singular author.


The whole subject is ludicrous. Apparently there are a few Internet "Satanists" who actually take it seriously—but there are a lot of stupid people on the Internet.

And your "Ketab-e-Siyah" is some Internet plagiarist's attempt to throw all of the Satanic copypasta he could find into a PDF:

http://www.lulu.com/content/135572
It looks like the author actually just pulled these texts from the internet and put them right in his books with not even any commentary on them. I guess it took about 20 minutes to make the book.

http://www.the600club.com/topic9218-1.html
i remember tsirk susej...jesus krist... from the ol days on alt.satanism. nice enough fellow, but very into titles and plagiarism, like the majority of online satanizers.

[lightgiver]

Did you? http://spiritualsatanist.blogspot.com/2008/12/review-book-of-lucifer.html



The whole subject is ludicrous. Apparently there are a few Internet "Satanists" who actually take it seriously—but there are a lot of stupid people on the Internet.

And your "Ketab-e-Siyah" is some Internet plagiarist's attempt to throw all of the Satanic copypasta he could find into a PDF:

http://www.lulu.com/content/135572

http://www.the600club.com/topic9218-1.html

Just goes to show what one can pick up on the Internet:D

The Satanic Bible was written by Anton LaVey in 1969. It is a collection of essays, observations and basic Satanic rituals, and outlines LaVey's Satanic ideology. The author claims the influence of Ragnar Redbeard and Ayn Rand among others.

The book contains the core principles of Satanism and is considered the foundation of the philosophy and dogma that constitute Satanism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanic_Bible

[luciferhorus]

Just goes to show what one can pick up on the Internet:D

The Satanic Bible was written by Anton LaVey in 1969. It is a collection of essays, observations and basic Satanic rituals, and outlines LaVey's Satanic ideology. The author claims the influence of Ragnar Redbeard and Ayn Rand among others.

The book contains the core principles of Satanism and is considered the foundation of the philosophy and dogma that constitute Satanism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanic_Bible

On Satanism


Anton La Vey was an atheist, who believed neither in the existence of the Christian God nor his alleged adversary, and despite many agreements I have with Anton; he did not and does not speak for all Satanists.

Satanism is approximately divided between the spiritual Satanists, the 'realists' (who believe that the enemy of the evil Christian god is an actual ancestral spirit whom they revere) and the atheistic Satanists, the anti-realists who reduce all matters of spirituality to psychology.

By 'Satanism' this term should not be confused with 'evil-ism.'

http://www.johnnyleeclary.com/mansonrippingupbible.jpg
(above Marylin Manson ripping up the Bible)

For example Marylin Manson certainly considers La Vey to be a mentor and was formerly a member of his Church.

Christians generally consider Manson to be a 'Satanist,' however for example Manson despised George Bush, he did not support the Christian's war in Iraq, he is very much a religious Anarchist (against the priesthood) and a sexual Anarchist (i.e., against the 'sin of restriction' and the numerous sexual laws of the priesthood).

http://sleevage.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/03.jpg

This begs the question: 'If Manson is so evil why does he not support the Christian's genocide of the Iraqi and Afghan people? Why does he not love the evil god of the Bible?'

http://www.luciferia.tv/1ChildrenOftheSlaves/lucifer_paradise_lost2.jpg

Most of the those whom the devotees of the god of Capital (i.e., the Christians) define as Satanists are just thelemites or fans of heavy metal / goth music, or neo-Pagans, wiccanists, druids, etc., and who seek revolution against the tyranny of the evil priesthood of Christianity.

Since I have also been defined by Christians as a Satanist, I must point out that I consider their god to be evil, and as for my own concept of god, I consider Her to be a militant, black, lesbian, Communist Jew (i.e., a good person).

The god of Capital (i.e., the Christian god) is a morally worthless deity; the god of tyrants and priests; thus to take up an adversarial position against this Capitalist devil is what defines 'goodness.'

LL

Lux

http://www.luciferia.tv/1ChildrenOftheSlaves/Godisablacklesbian.jpg

[zero1]

Satanism is approximately divided between the spiritual Satanists, the 'realists' (who believe that the enemy of the evil Christian god is an actual ancestral spirit whom they revere) and the atheistic Satanists, the anti-realists who reduce all matters of spirituality to psychology.

Most of the those whom the devotees of the god of Capital (i.e., the Christians) define as Satanists are just thelemites or fans of heavy metal / goth music, or neo-Pagans, wiccanists, druids, etc., and who seek revolution against the tyranny of the evil priesthood of Christianity.

That's a very concise summation of the real situation re; "Satanism".

Since I have also been defined by Christians as a Satanist, I must point out that I consider their god to be evil, and as for my own concept of god, I consider Her to be a militant, black, lesbian, Communist Jew (i.e., a good person).

I laughed, I did. Classic. :cool:

I would worship such a God; and that is a big statement coming from me, as I worship none, and do not treat of such matters lightly.

The god of Capital (i.e., the Christian god) is a morally worthless deity; the god of tyrants and priests; thus to take up an adversarial position against this Capitalist devil is what defines 'goodness.'

Yes.

[lightgiver]

Well either a commie or capitalist,

On Capitalist Jesus.
On Communist Jesus.

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=63676

maybe you just have a Jesus agenda of some sorts,good luck.:D

Oh I nearly forgot this one,

biblical contradictions 101,

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=62061

I am sure there are quite a few contradictions flowing around in some other circles.

[luciferhorus]

I laughed, I did. Classic. :cool:

I would worship such a God; and that is a big statement coming from me, as I worship none, and do not treat of such matters lightly.



'Pearls before Swine'

I little 'tip' from an old propagandist.

I also find that much of what occurs on this forum is as you have suggested on your 'Pearls before Swine' thread, but then again I think that for many it is also 'preaching to the converted,' but then again, for example try searching for subjects such as 'Communist Jesus' on the google.com or even google images and for the titles of many of the essays here; you will find for example links to 'Communist Jesus' on the David Icke discussion forum on the very first page of your search; and this is only one of myriads of discussion boards, but it is why with only a relative handful of people debating, that essays posted here can get 1000's of hits; similarly with Usenet, similarly with the over 500 myspace discussion groups I am subscribed to and other independent discussion groups I have been debating on since the early 90's.

We are up against an army of religious propagandists, a professional priesthood and professional bloggers employed by the Christian state terrorists. They are losing the battle and they have been slowly losing since the beginnings of the printing press and 'especially' since the beginnings of the Internet; those who are the enemies of the god of Capital and his priesthood and collaborators have a world of 6 billion souls to win, but unfortunately, speaking from past experience, it shall probably be the case that 'one shall be taken and one shall be left behind;' not all can be awoken from their hypnosis, and some are not under the spell of hypnosis (the innocents) but are the hypnotists themselves (the guilty) who are under their own spell of arrogance and are well aware of the evil and confusion they perpetrate, some out of foolishness and egotism, others for Capitalist coin.

Debating on discussion boards is not merely a matter of speaking to the 'already converted' and the few Capitalist and Religionist 'swine;' it is how we speak to all peoples and nations from the sky as the lightening flashes from the east to the west and sit in judgement on the living and the dead.

If I was just debating with the few anti-Communist morons here, I wouldn't waste my time; this is how the vanguard of revolution speaks to humanity, and humanity is, for the most part, far from being mostly 'swine,' they are just the masses seeking enlightenment, liberation and revolution, and even many of the alleged 'swine' are just innocents who are victims of the hypnosis of the priesthood of the god of Capital, and they just need a little education to awaken them; a third of global population are after all just children under 16, which is why I don't teach in schools, I have too many other children to educate.

As Icke says (I paraphrase), speak to one you speak to a 1000 and the 1000 to 10,000 and to the myraids.

Here on the Internet we speak to all peoples and nations.

And also here those who are here to make a fool of themselves, do so before the myraids.

It is not a trivial matter.

Revolutionary Propaganda (education) is the first stage of Revolutionary War.

Light you

Much love to you Comandante Zero.

LL

Lux


http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/para/images/upf-pic1.jpg

You are the light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hidden. Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. In the same way, let your light shine before men..

[zero1]

'Pearls before Swine'

I little 'tip' from an old propagandist.

I also find that much of what occurs on this forum is as you have suggested on your 'Pearls before Swine' thread, but then again I think that for many it is also 'preaching to the converted,' but then again, for example try searching for subjects such as 'Communist Jesus' on the google.com or even google images and for the titles of many of the essays here; you will find for example links to 'Communist Jesus' on the David Icke discussion forum on the very first page of your search; and this is only one of myriads of discussion boards, but it is why with only a relative handful of people debating, that essays posted here can get 1000's of hits; similarly with Usenet, similarly with the over 500 myspace discussion groups I am subscribed to and other independent discussion groups I have been debating on since the early 90's.

We are up against an army of religious propagandists, a professional priesthood and professional bloggers employed by the Christian state terrorists. They are losing the battle and they have been slowly losing since the beginnings of the printing press and 'especially' since the beginnings of the Internet; those who are the enemies of the god of Capital and his priesthood and collaborators have a world of 6 billion souls to win, but unfortunately, speaking from past experience, it shall probably be the case that 'one shall be taken and one shall be left behind;' not all can be awoken from their hypnosis, and some are not under the spell of hypnosis (the innocents) but are the hypnotists themselves (the guilty) who are under their own spell of arrogance and are well aware of the evil and confusion they perpetrate, some out of foolishness and egotism, others for Capitalist coin.

Debating on discussion boards is not merely a matter of speaking to the 'already converted' and the few Capitalist and Religionist 'swine;' it is how we speak to all peoples and nations from the sky as the lightening flashes from the east to the west and sit in judgement on the living and the dead.

If I was just debating with the few anti-Communist morons here, I wouldn't waste my time; this is how the vanguard of revolution speaks to humanity, and humanity is, for the most part, far from being mostly 'swine,' they are just the masses seeking enlightenment, liberation and revolution, and even many of the alleged 'swine' are just innocents who are victims of the hypnosis of the priesthood of the god of Capital, and they just need a little education to awaken them; a third of global population are after all just children under 16, which is why I don't teach in schools, I have too many other children to educate.

As Icke says (I paraphrase), speak to one you speak to a 1000 and the 1000 to 10,000 and to the myraids.

Here on the Internet we speak to all peoples and nations.

And also here those who are here to make a fool of themselves, do so before the myraids.

It is not a trivial matter.

Revolutionary Propaganda (education) is the first stage of Revolutionary War.

Light you

Much love to you Comandante Zero.

LL

Lux


http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/para/images/upf-pic1.jpg

You are the light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hidden. Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. In the same way, let your light shine before men..

Thank you, LH. :) I'm humbled by your wisdom and breadth of experience.

We will win in the end, as always. It cannot come too soon.

Much love to you, commandante Lucifer.

gesundheit,
Z1

[eternal_spirit]

Joe Leiberman tossed off a couple of lines about God in a speech the other day. He said that the framers guaranteed freedom of religion, not freedom from religion. Seems true enough, but from the press fallout, you'd think he'd called for a new Inquisition. Yes, after more than 100 million deaths by government in our own century, after Hitler and Stalin, we are still to be constantly worried about events Pope Sixtus IV authorized many centuries ago that killed several thousand over centuries.

This is one of a thousand examples of the wholly unjustified anti-religious bias of our time. The assumption of most intellectuals and their media echo chamber is that believers, particularly Christians, are a danger to society and to liberty. Sure, people should have freedom of religion, so long as their religion is private, invisible, politically ineffectual, and culturally irrelevant. The Church is to be hounded as a menace, and the State heralded as liberator of mankind.

Do believers represent a danger to society? Are they the would-be oppressors of our time, to be constantly watched and thwarted? Are they perpetrators of violence? Look at the sweep of the century and you see that Christians, particularly Catholics, have in fact been the main victims of state violence in our century. For full documentation of these claims, I commend to you Robert Royal's remarkable new book, The Catholic Martyrs of the Twentieth Century: A Comprehensive World History (New York: Crossroad Publishing, 2000).

"In absolute numbers, the century's martyrs far surpass those of any previous century," he writes. And why? Royal blames "the appearance of virulent anti-Christian ideologies and brutally repressive regimes seeking to impose them, which led directly to the widespread suffering and slaughter of religious believers."

"In a century that rightly prided itself on its scientific and technological advances on the one hand and its commitment to human rights on the other, refined methods of torture and control, physical and mental, also emerged with a vengeance all around the globe. As one of the deepest sources of opposition to oppressive tendencies, religion was a logical target for tyrants. The twentieth century, by any measure, presents a brutal spectacle that may be remembered historically as one of the darkest periods of martyrdom."

When Royal refers to martyrs, he is speaking not just of people who have been killed, but people killed specifically for their faith. The main victims fell to Communism, which was called "godless Communism" in the West for good reason. It was the most virulently anti-Christian political ideology ever invented. Royal reminds us of Vladimir Bukovsky's observation that Communism typically killed as many people in a day as the Inquisition killed in all the centuries of its existence. Most of its victims were believers.

The Royal book begins with a detailed study of the Mexican socialist revolution of 1917-the first in the history of the world, predating the Bolshevik revolution, but forgotten today. "Churches were destroyed, desecrated, confiscated, and turned into army barracks; religious items were profaned by soldiers drinking from chalices, chopping up statues for firewood, and using religious art for target practice; orders of priests and nuns were outlawed, and teaching about religion prohibited; religious buildings or private homes where religious activities occurred might be subject for forfeit." Priests had to seek government licenses.

The governor of the Mexican territory Tabasco named his children Lenin, Lucifer, and Satan, expelled any priest who would not marry, and set out to destroy all churches. And today, is there any sensitivity in Mexico about attacking Christians? Any warnings that anti-Catholicism might open old wounds? Actually, it's the reverse: the Western press warned of a new intolerance when the new president-elect was filmed receiving communion.

And the Soviet Union? What can we say? Here was a regime that attempted to stamp out all religion through an incredible wave of violence though this thoroughly religious society. Schools were shut, priests were murdered, and Bishops jailed and tortured. Churches were surrounded by troops and the priests taken to Moscow to be killed.

The institution of the family was targeted mainly because it was here, Soviet authorities were convinced, that faith was taught. How many martyrs? Royal says we can't know for sure. But millions were slaughtered.

The chapter on the Ukrainian liquidation of believers makes for very difficult reading. Imagine this: the Ukrainian Catholic Church had 2,772 parishes, 8 bishops, 4,119 churches and chapels, 142 monasteries and convents, 2,628 priests, 164 monks, 773 nuns, and 4 million laypeople. By the end of the largest suppression of believers in world history, the entire apparatus was reduced to: zero.

The list goes on: the mountains of carnage in France, Albania, Lithuania, Vietnam, Poland, Germany, Latin America, Romania, Korea, Africa, Spain (at the end of the Spanish Civil War, lasting three years, seven thousand names of martyrs for the faith were turned over to the Holy See). And only most recently, the murderous Indonesian regime killed dozens of priests and nuns in East Timor. These were all deaths by government, and the governments doing the killing were mostly states that professed hatred of Christianity.

Much of Royal's research is new. The project began with a sentence in one of John Paul II's encyclicals. He said that the martyrs of our century "should not be forgotten." A group of parishioners at Saint Aloysius Parish in New Canaan, Connecticut, took the words seriously, and began to accumulate materials. The word spread and materials started coming in from around the world. What began as a simple list became an amazing archive. With the help of his brother who is a priest, Royal began the work of putting the results in book form.

Royal has done a masterful job, not only of documenting hundreds of examples along with the stories of some of the most heroic; he has also given us an account of why martyrdom should matter to us. Royal reminds us that Christianity is a faith in which martyrdom, not conquest, is the driving theme. All the Apostles except possibly one (John the Evangelist) died violent deaths.

St. Paul was beheaded, but likely expected it: just as in Israel of old, he wrote in Galatians, "he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born of the Spirit, even so it is now."

St. Peter was crucified upside down and set on fire, and foreshadowed his suffering by writing in his Epistle: "Beloved, do not be startled at the trial by fire now taking place among you...but rejoice, in so far as you are partakers of the sufferings of Christ."

http://www.lewrockwell.com/rockwell/martyrs.html

[luciferhorus]

Well either a commie or capitalist,

On Capitalist Jesus.
On Communist Jesus.

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=63676

maybe you just have a Jesus agenda of some sorts,good luck.:D

.

Yes I seek to dehypnotise the billions Christians and take them through the intellectual conversion to anti-Capitalism via the words and edicts of the proto-Communist Jesus.

Capitalist forms of Christianity are simply blasphemies and heresies and misrepresntations of the Communist Jesus, whereas the 'Communist Jesus' is entirely based on his anti-Capitalist teachings; since the words of the Communist Jesus are allegedly, to the Christians the infallible words and edicts of God Herself, I think that if the allegedly unchanging all-powerful, all knowing, Communist Jesus had wanted to justify Capitalism and Christian state terrorism, that he would have made himself quite clear on the matter.

Lux

[lightgiver]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwgD6iNbO4M

This clip describes the Conspiracy of the Freemasonic order The Great East of Peoples of Russia or The Grand Orient of Russias People of their anti-Tsarist coup that lead to the Socialist Revolution in Russia. It also speculates that Lenin and Trotsky were freemasons.
Another Source claims that: the Grand Orient of France in Russia nor the Grand Orient of Russias People are recognized as regular Freemasonry
http://freemasonry.bcy.ca/texts/russi...

A Short Bio on Head of the Suprem Council Alexander Kerensky:
Rosencrucian (head of Russian Rosencrucian was Grand Duke Alexandre Mikhailovich Romanov). Lawyer. Legal advisor of the German firm "Span &sons" in Russia. According police informers he had a huge sums from abroad sources for organization of revolutionary movement in the boundaries of Russian Empire. Initiated in 1912 in La Petite Ourse(Ursa Minor) lodge in St.-Petersburg. General Secretary of the Supreme Council of the Great East of Russias Peoples in 1915 - 1916. KEY FIGURE OF SUPREME COUNCIL OF THE GREAT EAST OF RUSSIA"S PEOPLE Officer of the Supreme Council (Shadow Cabinet of Russia) supporting contacts with radicals and socialists. Member of "Rose"Llodge ("Masons" Grouping" in IV State Duma). Chairman of Trudovik (Labourist Party) faction in State Duma. Chairman of the IV State Duma. Member, deputy of the chairman of the Executive Committee of the Petrograd (St.-Petersburg) Council Socialist-Revolutionaries" Party (from 1917). Member of the Provisional committee of the State Duma. Minister of the Provisional Government - of Justice (March - May 1917), Military and Marine ( May - Sept. 1917), Premier-Minister of the Provisional Government (since July), head of the Directory (September), chairman of the 3rd Coalition Government (October). Commander-in-Chief of Russian Army since 30 August (12Sept.) 1917. Organized rebel of general P.N. Krasnov against bolsheviks. Emigrated in 1918. When in emigration was insulted by not being included in the International Masonic Supreme Council and by not being awarded a degree of "Venerable Master" of the French rite Masonry. Since 1940 lived in U.S.

[thelonious]

Joe Leiberman tossed off a couple of lines about God in a speech the other day. He said that the framers guaranteed freedom of religion, not freedom from religion.

If I had any lingering doubts that Lieberman was a complete moron, you just cleared that up for me once and for all.

If there is freedom *of* religion, then freedom *from* religion follows by default. If I have the right to be whatever religion I want, then obviously I have the right to reject religion as well.

Lieberman is obviously just playing up to his newfound supporters on the right.

[foobar]

Fortunately I have come to humanity to clarify such issues and to explain the nature of the One True militant Black Jewish Lesbian Communist God.


This is a spectacularly good troll-job you've got going on these people. I tip my hat.

[thirdwave]

This is a spectacularly good troll-job you've got going on these people. I tip my hat.

are you sure its not just the fact you cant really grasp what's being said?

[luciferhorus]

I am simply resurrecting this thread as I am being accused by Lightbearer on the "Satanic nonsense" thread of misinterpreting Buddha and Jesus.

LL

Lux

[lightgiver]

I am simply resurrecting this thread as I am being accused by Lightbearer on the "Satanic nonsense" thread of misinterpreting Buddha and Jesus.

LL

Lux

You have all got the wrong interpretation,you are all projecting different thoughts onto the same objects,the objects that have no existence from their own side.

they are all empty of inherent existence .

Let it go.:)

I do like this video bushdoctor posted,may give you a idea.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LN5YMQ507A

[luciferhorus]

You have all got the wrong interpretation,you are all projecting different thoughts onto the same objects,the objects that have no existence from their own side.



Again I must point out that contradiction is a poor substitute for argument; for example a contradiction would be "You have the wrong interpretation;" whereas an argument would show how the interpretation is incorrect and explain what the correct interpretation would be; for example one could state that "the anti-Capitalist" interpretation of the Jesus of the Gospels is incorrect since he was clearly an evangelical Capitalist, he cursed the poor to Hell and believed that the rich would enter heaven, etc., etc.

Lux

[lightgiver]

Again I must point out that contradiction is a poor substitute for argument; for example a contradiction would be "You have the wrong interpretation;" whereas an argument would show how the interpretation is incorrect and explain what the correct interpretation would be; for example one could state that "the anti-Capitalist" interpretation of the Jesus of the Gospels is incorrect since he was clearly an evangelical Capitalist, he cursed the poor to Hell and believed that the rich would enter heaven, etc., etc.

Lux

To many contradictions in your post :confused::D

According to the Jewish Torah and the Christian Bible (Ex 22:25)[2], and the Muslim Koran (2:275)[3], charging interest (usury) on a loan is strictly forbidden by God. In the New Testament of the Bible, Christians are specifically instructed to "lend, expecting nothing in return" (Luke 6:34-35). Thus, in Christian doctrine, it is right lend money to those in need but wrong for the lender to seek profit from the loan.

[edelweiss pirate]

Great information about Jesus, totally agree.

However I'm pretty sure this has got nothing to do with Christianity.

In case you didn't notice the rulers of the world are Satanists.

Nothing has changed since the days of Jesus, the same band of hypocrites and liars are in charge, the synagogue of satan: The Illuminati.

Attacking Christianity LH, is like picking on the little kid at school.

He has no power and is no threat to you, yet you pick on him because it makes you feel stronger than someone.

I suggest you look into freemasonry and the Illuminati, Christianity was long ago hijacked by these interests.

You're attacking the wooden puppets rather than the puppet master.

[armoured_amazon]

In case you didn't notice the rulers of the world are Satanists.

Nothing has changed since the days of Jesus, the same band of hypocrites and liars are in charge, the synagogue of satan: The Illuminati...I suggest you look into freemasonry and the Illuminati, Christianity was long ago hijacked by these interests.

Quoted for truth. It's their regular MO.

[luciferhorus]

To many contradictions in your post :confused::D.

Form and content

It is interesting to note that while both you and Grand Secretary "appear" to be on differing sides of the ideological divide, that you both utilise a very similar strategy on this forum; you are both constantly using contradiction and ridicule and neither of you is cable of being corrected on this.

To state thatthere are contradictions in my post is simply "contradiction;" an "argument" on the other hand would state what those contradictions are.

.
According to the Jewish Torah and the Christian Bible (Ex 22:25)[2], and the Muslim Koran (2:275)[3], charging interest (usury) on a loan is strictly forbidden by God. In the New Testament of the Bible, Christians are specifically instructed to "lend, expecting nothing in return" (Luke 6:34-35). Thus, in Christian doctrine, it is right lend money to those in need but wrong for the lender to seek profit from the loan.

Again this is a form of "straw man" argument; you are arguing against a position which I do not hold; you are well aware that I am an anti-monetarist and that I am citing the anti-monetarist positions of Jesus; with regards to quotes from the Bible outlawing Usury (money lending), I frankly don't see how this is an argument against the "anti-monetarist" positions of Jesus; though I should point out that anti-monetarism and anti-propertyism is far more radical than merely anti-usury.

Lucifer

The Socratic Dialectic (Gr. Argument) 101

or:


‘Abuse, sophisty and contradiction (ASC) : the last cries of the desparate.’


What is ‘argument?
By Lucifer
For Anarchist Communism.

______________________________________

There are numerous groups on the Internet where debate is confused with 'exchanges' of abuse.

I was did not always think as I do, and in the future I expect my positions to modify as a consequence of study, debate, life experience etc.

Debate and discussion is always a good thing.

Our political and metaphysical beliefs must go through a dialectical testing process.

When tested, if they fail or are destroyed by superior arguments; the person who is intellectually honest should concede and modify his position.

That is how adults 'develop' intellectually, morally (the discernment of good and evil), spiritually, whatever.

Children just slag each other off.

______________

http://sorinplaton.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/skinheads.jpg

Thesis (idea), anti-thesis (opposing idea) and synthesis (a combination of two ideas).

An argument in the English language can mean a fight between two football hooligans but this has nothing to do with the Greek meaning of ‘dialectic, ’ with regards to the teaching and debating method Socrates. In Internet debates over the years I have often made many ‘arguments’ against the ‘ideas’ of other people who misunderstand the meaning of the term ‘dialectic, ’ and to simplify I have written the following explanation which I often post in response to my essays.


_____________________________________________

Abuse and contradiction are common and can be had from imbecile, football hooligan or a drunk at a bus stop and do not constitute argument.

Responses should follow certain standards or I will probably ignore you.
_________________________________

Argument (Gr. dialectic) according to Socrates, Hegel and John Cleese.


3 universally accepted ground rules of debating

1: Abuse.
Abuse does not constitute an argument.

2: Contradiction.
Contradiction is not an argument. ’I don’t agree with you’ is not an
argument. An Argument would state ‘why’ you disagree.

3: Sophistry (sophist: ’sophisticated / educated).

A Sophist generally avoids the question and rambles on about something else, often avoiding the argument made by the opponent and often utilising straw man arguments (attacking arguments and positions which the opponent does not hold) and creates confusion with language.

The use of the combination of 1, 2 and 3 is generally defined as ’arrogance’ and ‘avoidance of debate, ’ and by default ‘conceding the point to the opponent’

For those who do not understand the meaning of the term ‘argument, ’ for further information watch the 6 minute video on the ground rules of debate on:

http://www.scottberkun.com/wp-content/themes/scottberkun/images/40-1.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/v/kQFKtI6gn9Y&hl=en&fs=1

(Monty Python Argument Sketch)

Note that this only covers abuse and contradiction.

If you cannot understand this, I suggest the removal of your brain.

See

http://www.physd.amu.edu.pl/~magik/pics/gumby1.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIlKiRPSNGA

(Monty Python: ’My Brian Hurts)

’An argument is not contradiction (or abuse); it is a series of connected statements which establish a proposition; a debate is a dialectical intellectual process’

__________


The Socratic and Sophist method of education

Socrates: intellectual and spiritual development through a dialectical process.

Socrates would encourage his students to ‘argue’ with him, but to restate, since the term ‘argue’ has a number of meanings in the English, we are speaking of a Socratic ‘dialectical’ process, not a punch up, nor the showering of abuse; we are speaking of challenging an idea (thesis) with another idea (anti-thesis) and in this way the ideas and debating skills of both parties evolve and develop.

This process is intended to produce an intellectually evolved and intellectually honest person who can admit points to the opponent when the opponent’s position seems to be better and who can also stand up for their own ideas when challenged by an authority whom they disagree with. This is how we evolve intellectually and spiritually; whereas an ‘arrogant; person engages in an argument (debate) in the same way that a boxer fights (to win). The purpose of dialectical argument is not to win even if one is shown to be errant, but to test and evolve (develop) ones’ ideas. This sometimes can involve using the ‘Devil’s advocate’ form of argument where one attacks the arguments of those one essentially agrees with in order to test them.

The Sophists: Intellectual fascism (Gr. Sophist: a sophisticated, educated, arrogant pseudo-intellectual).

The Sophist method of educating students, which has been taken up by the Catholic Church throughout it’s history, was to lecture them for hours, and if challenged by a student, the student might be told that they are arrogant, told off or burned at the state, tortured by the Inquisition’ or simply ‘murdered ’ and branded a heretic who dared to challenge authority. The Sophist method defines the term ‘arrogance. An arrogant person thinks that they are always correct, and even when shown to be incorrect, they will still hold fast to their position, since their purpose is to ‘win’ an argument by all means necessary. The Sophists of course despised Socrates as much as he despised them (he considered them to be educated fools) and like so many others who challenge existing authority, Socrates was martyred.

Lucifer
http://www.luciferia.tv/animation/A.gif
Light of the World.
Aeon of Lucifer 2008
_____________________________




Attacking Christianity LH, is like picking on the little kid at school.

He has no power and is no threat to you, yet you pick on him because it makes you feel stronger than someone.

The long history of Christianity, their crusades, inquisitions, tyrannies, slave trading and holy wars which today bear fruit in Anglo-American Christian state terrorism and Christian Capitalism in general would seem to indicate to me that they have generally been the "bullies" of this world; a position still held today; they are clearly armed to the teeth with weapons of mass destruction and are intent on the economic enslavement of humanity; that is hardly the "little kid at school" that I am picking on; on the contrary they are the bullies of the world; as my essay suggests, the economic imperialism of the Christian Capitalists seems to me to have very little to do with the anti-monetarism and anti-propertyism of the Jesus of the Gospels; rather he is just an icon of mass hypnosis in whose name the Christian Capitalists sell slavation to the gullible; never the less that is what defines Christianity; it is simply a hypocritical and morally worthless religion which represents the anti-thesis of the Israeli Communist whom they worship as an object of idolatry.


Lucifer

[armoured_amazon]

2 Tim. 4:3-4
For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths.

Colossians 2:8
See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ.

[edelweiss pirate]

The long history of Christianity, their crusades, inquisitions, tyrannies, slave trading and holy wars which today bear fruit in Anglo-American Christian state terrorism and Christian Capitalism in general would seem to indicate to me that they have generally been the "bullies" of this world; a position still held today; they are clearly armed to the teeth with weapons of mass destruction and are intent on the economic enslavement of humanity; that is hardly the "little kid at school" that I am picking on; on the contrary they are the bullies of the world; as my essay suggests, the economic imperialism of the Christian Capitalists seems to me to have very little to do with the anti-monetarism and anti-propertyism of the Jesus of the Gospels; rather he is just an icon of mass hypnosis in whose name the Christian Capitalists sell slavation to the gullible; never the less that is what defines Christianity; it is simply a hypocritical and morally worthless religion which represents the anti-thesis of the Israeli Communist whom they worship as an object of idolatry.


Lucifer


Dude. Capitalism predates Christianity by a long way.


When I see you I see a man trapped in the past and under some heavy spell of delusion.

The evil things you mention also predate Christianity.

What about the Romans? Shall we start chasing them because they owned slaves, curcified people and practiced genocide.

I'm not being funny but you seem like a cartoon character. Get with it mate, these are no times for the confused and deluded to start shouting the odds.

What you hate is 'evil' itself, at least I assume so. Well done! It's the same thing I hate.

And one thing's for sure, evil will always exist on earth as long as men are men who allow darkness and the agents of evil into their hearts.

See the bigger picture for once. You need to realise that there are much bigger forces at work in this rather than mere 'isms'.


Anyway, while you're here, as a communist, are you willing to explain the 100 million odd people killed in its name?


That's a bigger body count than the Christians could muster..... Maybe you're the real danger here....

[rodin]

Maybe some of you will fine this line of inquiry interesting

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=88058&page=12

[luciferhorus]

2 Tim. 4:3-4
For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths.

Colossians 2:8
See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ.


Well these two quotations describe exactly what Paul did with the teachings of Jesus; he subverted them to his own beliefs and interpretations and this is exactly what has occurred ever since with the phenomenon of Capitalist Christianity; and that is what is occurring on this forum with Masons such as "Scorpio" and "Grand Secretary" who despite being Christian cultists appear also to be evangelical Capitalists; it is their own personal beliefs which appear to take precedence over the anti-Capitalist, anti-propertyist martyr whom they both claim to misrepresent and whom they both make a mockery of.

Lux

[thirdwave]

2 Tim. 4:3-4
For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths.

you see, Christians often say "you must feel the holy sprit to "get" these words... and so on..

I will tell you my take on that quote from Tim

"For the time is coming when people will no longer feel the religions of the world are speaking the whole truth, but will have urges to seek the answers to more questions and take inspiration from other teachers alive in the world they live in that relate to them and their passions. They will no longer be brainwashed by texts which have been violently implanted in society's mind. They will wonder off free no longer tricked my mythological religions."

I would also add to that, "This will cause Chaos, as to be expected, but will eventually find its self... its true self. The "Devil" will try to create a New World out of this chaos... anticipating it, and awaiting it, confusing it more and more... and will try to own the new human. though he will fail, even if it means the planet earth its self wiping the slate clean."

Colossians 2:8
See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ.

Shit that's terrible!, don't remember reading that one... shiiit..

"See that you do not listen to anyone who speaks sense and offers real education, based on human nature, based on discoveries and laws of the universe, and who does not simply teach that Jesus is the messiah."

I don't even really need to translate, it speaks for its self... the level of mind control is shocking.... although I guess you have to also say pretty genius.

There is no doubt that who ever wrote the bible had a record label :)

[luciferhorus]

I don't even really need to translate, it speaks for its self... the level of mind control is shocking.... although I guess you have to also say pretty genius.



Well since this the Secret Societies forum, I would say that the "mind control" and hypnosis which is used by the Christian Capitalists when they claim to represent Jesus appears to be that which is used by Masons and indeed also Masons on this particular forum.

With regards to the "genius" of this particular kind of mind control and hypnosis, I should point out that most of our Christian ancestors were rather illiterate and uneducated, through no fault of their own. The more illiterate and uneducated a person is, the easier it is to hypnotise them with religious sophistry.

Since The Enlightenment, human beings have begun the process of slowly waking up. All educated and literate people today can read the 4 Gospels for themselves and compare the teachings and lifestyle of Jesus to the Christian Capitalist hypocrites (I include the Masons in this definition) who claim to represent Jesus.

Frankly I don't consider it really to be a work of genius to hypnotise a poor uneducated, barely literate person. The "genius" of this type of hypnosis anyway simply does not work as effectively on most people who have an educated, rational and critical mind, which is why the more educated a person is, the less likely they are to descend into religious fanaticism and succumb to religious hypnosis.

This process of Enlightenment which has been occuring since the 17th century, but I predict it will eventually sweep through the world and brign about the death of organised religion.

I think also for many of the less well educated Capitalist Christians, Christianity is also a form of "self hypnosis" where they convince themselves that despite having absolutely nothing to do with the teachings and philosophy of Jesus, that they will enter Communist heaven in the afterlife; however for the Freemasons on this forum, they simply have no excuse to compare the teachings of Jesus to themselves and their cult, and I suspect that rather than self hypnosis, that their Christianity is a rather feeble attempt to convince others of their "goodness," despite the fact that they represent the anti-thesis of Jesus.

Evil often hides behind the mask of goodness and often any old martyr whom those of their ilk persecuted and murdered will do.

Lux

[luciferhorus]

Anyway, while you're here, as a communist, are you willing to explain the 100 million odd people killed in its name?


That's a bigger body count than the Christians could muster..... Maybe you're the real danger here....

Revolution by all means necessary.

I cannot justify all of the alleged victims of Communism; some of those victims were due to the outrages of Stalin which are universally condemned by almost all modern Communists; however many of the victims of Communism were due to wars against the Capitalists, Castro's campaigns in Angola against the South Africans, the victims of the Spanish civil war, the Cuban revolution, the Bolshevik's civil war against the Russian Tsarists, Mao's campaigns against the Japanese and the Chinese Nationalists, failed agricultural collectivisation experiments etc.

I should point out that in Capitalist revolution the point is to eradicate (kill) all militant opposition, economically enslave the population and exploit all resources, just as it has been on many occasions throughout the last 16 centuries of Christian imperialism, genocides, crusades etc.

War is War. The point is to kill all militant enemies. The future world will be Communist and I expect that the death toll from the Final Revolutionary War of Economic salvation shall make the "100 million myth" seem like an insignificant detail of history in comparison. Future wars will take place using nuclear and non convertional weapons which will be what the gattling gun was to the bow and arrow, and will by necessity be far more genocidal in nature than any previous wars in human history. One simply cannot wage war against the Capitalists, who are themselves genocidal and utilising non conventional weaponry unless one is similarly willing to be genocidal and utilise the same weaponry; DEW (non projectile) direct energy weapons are currently being developed by many nations such as China and Cuba which will make current weaponry entirely obselete and will give absolutely no advantage to an army of imperialist occupation; on the contrary the advantage will be entirely in the hands of the guerrilla, and one single guerrilla from anonimity will be able to wage war against 10,000 and a 100,000 etc; it will bring about the eventual demise of Capitalism. All nations and governments shall fall.

Lux

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