Land for a 432hz festival in Scotland

[shenery]

Im looking for a farmer or land owner that would be willing to let me use a feild to have a festival raising awareness about 432hz.

It is a free festival and none of the organisers are making any profit from it.

We already have a lineup of up and coming bands confirmed, but the interest that has come from the whole thing has forced us to look for a bigger space and also the space we had originally wasnt our land and therfore would have been illegal.

We had a fundraiser event on Thursday to raise funds for the festival which went really well, and all the bands played in 432hz.

Any way any help appreciated.
Steven

[captaincaper]

Good luck, music sounds far better @ 432 compared to 440.

Do u know of any pc progs for simpletons that will convert to 432 @ the press of a button?

[shenery]

not at the press of a button but audacity does it.
Although theres been debate on whether it is at all possible to covert music from 440 432.
But ive used it and it definately makes a difference.

Heres how i do it.

1-open song in Audacity
2-edit-select-all
3-effect-change pitch
4-where it says Frequency(hz) from-put(440)
5-where it says Frequency(hz to -put(432)

and thats it.

[jojo]

Im looking for a farmer or land owner that would be willing to let me use a feild to have a festival raising awareness about 432hz.

It is a free festival and none of the organisers are making any profit from it.

We already have a lineup of up and coming bands confirmed, but the interest that has come from the whole thing has forced us to look for a bigger space and also the space we had originally wasnt our land and therfore would have been illegal.

We had a fundraiser event on Thursday to raise funds for the festival which went really well, and all the bands played in 432hz.

Any way any help appreciated.
Steven

I went to a few open air dance parties at a place called palgowan in dumfrise and galloway. Very close to glen trool (spelling, sorry) anyway, the farmers name was "David" and he had 20,000 beautiful acres out in the middle of nowhere. and he was very cool dude. But if you look for farms in Palgowan or (pallgowan) there wont be many as its a small hamlet.

[jojo]

http://www.palgowan.com/

and

http://www.murraysfordesign.co.uk/palgowan/home.aspx

[bagatell]

Good luck with the festival but I think this 432Hz thing has been way over simplified. Just lowering the pitch misses out on all the other aspects of tuning, which is what I think this and the Solfegio and 528Hz debates are about. If you really want to tune your music (and yourself), you to have to take harmonics into account.

I´m getting to like the way John Harrison´s 1775 temperament sounds with C=256hz ;)

[nirvana]

When is this gig planned in scotland ? sounds great. Im across the boarder in Cumbria so would love to come.


Peace:)

[les_paul_robot]

Good luck with the festival but I think this 432Hz thing has been way over simplified. Just lowering the pitch misses out on all the other aspects of tuning, which is what I think this and the Solfegio and 528Hz debates are about. If you really want to tune your music (and yourself), you to have to take harmonics into account.
Can you explain that more?

[shenery]

Well nirvana thats the reason why we need a new location.
The location we have can only hold around 200 people and thats just about covers the bands we have confirmed.
so we can just advertise it anywhere.

When we get a bigger location confirmed, then i can start telling people where to come and what date.
Im just hoping we can, because i think it could be massive.

[tien an]

Can you explain that more?

Um...I'll try and explain it without getting too technical:

Imagine a (closed) oriental fan.
Using it in this state to fan your face is next to useless.
If you open it halfway, the results will be better.
If you open it all the way, the results are optimal.

The half-open fan can be used to represent the sound-spectrum of an instrument tuned at A=440Hz.

The vanes (rigid parts) of the fan can represent the notes (frequencies) of the range of the instrument, and the stretched membrane between, the available / possible 'tone-colours' produced by the instrument.

Now, if we open the fan completely, this can represent the instrument tuned at A=432Hz.

I hope it is obvious that the available tone-colours in this second instrument will be more abundant.

What is achieved by tuning an instrument to A=432Hz is a broadening of the sound spectrum produced by that instrument.
More of the possible tone colours are available for the musician; the sound is 'warmer', more 'colourful'.
By the same token, the vanes, or ribs of the fan, representing the notes, are spaced further apart, meaning for the musician the notes are not so restrictive, ie they can be pulled sharper or flatter with much more ease...the instrument is much more flexible.
They are not as easy to play in tune (for the beginner), but are a boon for the competent musician.
Not only that, the harmonics of each note stand out more easily, making each note richer.
Sympathetic vibrations: In the example of the piano, when the forte (right) pedal is depressed and one note played, other strings (in particular the fifth and the octave), start vibrating 'in sympathy', giving a wonderfully rich sound, full of overtones.

In short:
A=440Hz = Nazi regime: Restrictive, shrill, lacking in depth.
A=432Hz = Every musicians dream: Flexibility, richness of tone, warmth.

I hope that helps.
This is a very complicated subject, as bagatell pointed out, but since music is the universal language, you only have to listen to two recordings of a good guitarist, playing the same piece of music, one at A=440Hz and the other at A=432Hz, for the phenomenon to become immediately apparent.

Don't worry if you don't have a musical ear: Your heart will hear it for you.

Another, not-so-accurate analogy:
Think of two voices, one high-pitched, the other deep.
The first will be difficult to listen to, in comparison to the second and the vibrations produced by the sound waves in the deep voice will penetrate your being much more deeply than the first.

Heavenly Peace,
with all my love (yes; really)
tien an.

PS Although it was Goebbels who pushed for a worldwide standard of A=440Hz, it was the American market that forced it (commercially, as always) upon the world market.

Sound familiar?

[bagatell]

In short:
A=440Hz = Nazi regime: Restrictive, shrill, lacking in depth.
A=432Hz = Every musicians dream: Flexibility, richness of tone, warmth.

PS Although it was Goebbels who pushed for a worldwide standard of A=440Hz, it was the American market that forced it (commercially, as always) upon the world market.




"In 1939, an international conference recommended that the A above middle C be tuned to 440 Hz, now known as concert pitch. This standard was taken up by the International Organization for Standardization in 1955 (and was reaffirmed by them in 1975) as ISO 16. The difference between this and the diapason normal is due to confusion over which temperature the French standard should be measured at. The initial standard was A = 439 Hz , but this was superseded by A = 440 Hz after complaints that 439 Hz was difficult to reproduce in a laboratory owing to 439 being a prime number.[9]"

Concert pitch - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

None of which addresses my point that choosing your tonic note is only one part of tuning an instrument. How you divide the octave (just intonation, Equal Temperament etc.) is just as, if not more important.

[les_paul_robot]

Thanks Tien An, that helped.
(But really... all your love? :o There won't be any left for other forum members...)

...choosing your tonic note is only one part of tuning an instrument. How you divide the octave (just intonation, Equal Temperament etc.) is just as, if not more important.
Hmmm, I think I get it this... you mean that, even with A=432Hz, the way we have 12 notes in an octave is not quite correct? And that really one might need to, say, have completely different fret spacings on a guitar?

[tien an]

Thanks Tien An, that helped.
(But really... all your love? :o There won't be any left for other forum members...)

Ah, sorry; I meant all my love to the subject, not you. (we hardly know each other, after all...what kind of guy do you think I am?;)) I'm an instrument-maker...by trade.



Hmmm, I think I get it this... you mean that, even with A=432Hz, the way we have 12 notes in an octave is not quite correct? And that really one might need to, say, have completely different fret spacings on a guitar?

12 'notes'? Careful with your terminology...I think you mean 12 semitones.
And yes, you've hit it right on the button; the frets on your guitar would have to be more widely spaced apart. The same being true for the holes in a flute, clarinet, saxophone etc. (Well done!)

[bagatell]

Hmmm, I think I get it this... you mean that, even with A=432Hz, the way we have 12 notes in an octave is not quite correct? And that really one might need to, say, have completely different fret spacings on a guitar?

Exactly. Take a look at THE LOST MUSIC OF THE SPHERES (http://www.harmonics.com/lucy/lsd/chap1.html)? It deals specifically with tuning guitars, though I don´t think it mentions Les Pauls ;)

[tien an]

"In 1939, an international conference recommended that the A above middle C be tuned to 440 Hz, now known as concert pitch. This standard was taken up by the International Organization for Standardization in 1955 (and was reaffirmed by them in 1975) as ISO 16. The difference between this and the diapason normal is due to confusion over which temperature the French standard should be measured at. The initial standard was A = 439 Hz , but this was superseded by A = 440 Hz after complaints that 439 Hz was difficult to reproduce in a laboratory owing to 439 being a prime number.[9]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concert_pitch

None of which addresses my point that choosing your tonic note is only one part of tuning an instrument. How you divide the octave (just intonation, Equal Temperament etc.) is just as, if not more important.

I, too, could easily have given a link to Wikipedia or Arthur Benade's "Fundamentals of Musical Acoustics" (my reference book), but I was trying to express it in layman's terms.
(Who was it that said, "If you can't explain it to a six-year-old, you don't understand it yourself."?)
I thought my explanation appropriate, under the circumstances.

It is my understanding that Goebbels was very active in pushing for a raising of the pitch. (Perhaps I'm wrong.)
It is also perhaps not a coincidence that the greatest number of instrument makers and factories are in the very countries that continually push for a change in Concert Pitch. (Germany, USA, China).

So let's address your point that choosing your tuning note (the tonic is the basis / starting-note of a chord or scale), is only one aspect of tuning the instrument:
Only instruments such as fretless stringed instruments (violin, viola, 'cello, etc. including modern fretless bass guitar), piano, timpani and all slide trombones and the voice are capable of being tuned to A=432/435/440/445 etc. at will. This is because they are not inhibited by fixed entities, such as frets, holes, keys and valves.
Other instruments, such as fretted strings, woodwind, brass instruments (not slide trombone), are restricted in that the length of string/resonance chamber (tube of a wind instrument) is divided by the above-mentioned frets, holes, keys and valves.
(I'm really pleased that les_paul_robot 'got it'.)
These other instruments can't be tuned flatter or sharper to any great degree without affecting (most of) the notes to their detriment.
As a rule of thumb; the closer to the tone generator (plucked string, mouthpiece, reed), the more these notes will be affected.
That is, unless extensive (and expensive) work is done to the instrument.

It is true that "A=440Hz" for example, is only naming one note, but as I've just explained above, for most instruments, the other notes are 'fixed' relative to each other.
"A=?" is used instead of naming every semitone and its pitch.

(Fretless) stringed instruments (including the piano) can be 'tuned' so that any note can have a desired frequency; the former by the musician and the latter by a competent piano-tuner.
(A piano-tuner friend of mine can elicit squeals of ecstasy from his (professional) clients by tuning their piano exactly as they would like it, usually sharper at the top end of the instrument and flatter at the bottom).

Just intonation is, as you point out, extremely important.
In fact it's the sign of a good musician to be able to distinguish the correct intonation of a note, depending on its position in the scale.
One particular note, being the fifth in one scale, is different to that same note where it is the leading note (penultimate) in another scale.

The correct way of tuning a wind instrument, for example (within itself), is to play two or three notes near the bottom of the instrument, overblow (force the harmonics to sound) these notes and compare the notes that come out with the 'real', fingered note.
For example: Saxophone ~ Play lowest 'C'. force the next harmonic (C an octave above) and compare it with the first. Using the same fingering as for the first C, force the next harmonic (G one twelfth or, an octave + a fifth above) and compare it with the actual fingered G and so on... the higher the better...
Do this for C, D and E and the instrument will literally 'sing' as soon as you play it. It really does 'come alive'.
As an aside, with the instrument in this state, it is possible to sing into the instrument and play chords!

Good God...I could go on for hours, but I don't want to bore you...

I hope that addresses your point.

Heavenly Peace.
tien an.

PS Further listening:
Rascher saxophone quartet, Prince (squirm in discomfort as you hear quarter-tones!).
Roland Kirk, Jethro Tull (the flute) are good examples of multiphonics and chords being played on wind instruments.

[tien an]

Exactly. Take a look at THE LOST MUSIC OF THE SPHERES (http://www.harmonics.com/lucy/lsd/chap1.html)? It deals specifically with tuning guitars, though I don´t think it mentions Les Pauls ;)

Oh yes; nice article!

When we consider that all instruments (except where the sound is produced electronically) are a compromise, it is not surprising that certain notes / chords will not 'sing'.

I can make every note on a saxophone 'sing' (for a price, of course), but it will not be equally tempered / tuned. If my customer is satisfied, they can pass it to another saxophonist, who will undoubtedly complain that 'this' or 'that' note is (now) out of tune. (and they will be correct).
I also know a guitar-maker/repairer in Germany who would rectify the problem mentioned in the article (certain notes being 'dead', or unsatisfactory) within the hour...depending on the note, he shaves some of the wood off the back of the guitar neck.
(Don't ask me to explain further...I deal with wind instruments).

regards,
tien an.

PS I only read some of the article: the above is the remedy for another problem.
That is one great article. (thank you!)
PPS Harrison (bless him), although he provided our Navy with the means of literally sailing rings around its contemporaries (Cook vs LaPerouse, for example) and maintaining Britannia's 'rule' of the waves for over a century, was never paid the £20,000 promised (several million pounds today).
TPTB, eh?

[tien an]

PPS Harrison (bless him), although he provided our Navy with the means of literally sailing rings around its contemporaries (Cook vs LaPerouse, for example) and maintaining Britannia's 'rule' of the waves for over a century, was never paid the £20,000 promised (several million pounds today).
TPTB, eh?

And since Harrison was of Scottish descent, that brings me nicely back on topic...

Does anyone know where the festival is being held yet?

[beldazar]

Thats fantastic shenery, I wish all bands would follow suit.

I much prefer 432hz to 440hz. there is a difference to the 'feel' of it, its swofter, more melodious.

I spent ages turing my sons music to 432hz. It doesnt seem to transfer onto an MP3 player very well.

so when are you coming to Cornwall? ;)

[shenery]

Were in the process of trying to get a bigger bit of land to host the festival, because the one we had planned was just too small for the amount of interest in it.
So ill tell you all when and where, when i find out where its going to be.

Steven

[astrochicken]

Were in the process of trying to get a bigger bit of land to host the festival, because the one we had planned was just too small for the amount of interest in it.
So ill tell you all when and where, when i find out where its going to be.

Steven


Steven,

you need another performer?

Just myself, my voice and my guitar.. kinda ragtimey-hawaiian-tulsa-sounding..
and tuned down for well over a year.

[father ted]

Thanks Tien An, that helped.
(But really... all your love? :o There won't be any left for other forum members...)


Hmmm, I think I get it this... you mean that, even with A=432Hz, the way we have 12 notes in an octave is not quite correct? And that really one might need to, say, have completely different fret spacings on a guitar?

Forgive my lack of understanding in all this, but does that mean that with A=432Hz, if the frets weren't spaced accordingly, you would have 13 different notes instead? (although maybe sounding out of tune?) - since they overlap areas where the frets should be.

[astrochicken]

Forgive my lack of understanding in all this, but does that mean that with A=432Hz, if the frets weren't spaced accordingly, you would have 13 different notes instead? (although maybe sounding out of tune?) - since they overlap areas where the frets should be.

No.

If you spaced the frets accordingly you could have as many notes as you wanted regardless of how you tuned your "A". ie you could have 15 notes with your "A" being 447Hz or 11 notes with your "A" being 437Hz etc.etc.

Watch this video on Cymatics (Cymatics is the field established by the ex-Steiners school teacher Prof.Dr. Hans Jenny in the 1950's) to see the point behind it.
YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.


The fact is that an "A" @ 432Hz will *geometrically* give you a wonderful pattern (i'm pretty sure it was a perfect circle with a dot in the middle) which will resonate harmonically with you and the cosmos, whereas 440Hz will create a pattern of interference ie. the *mess* between any of the notes producing harmonic resonance (and a beautiful pattern).

Considering that you are over 70% water (which retains a memory) and also basically just a mass of bio-magnetic fields resulting in neurons being fired to and forth which, at the right frequency, vibrate harmonically OR by changing the frequency you hear and feel (ie. to 440Hz = ISO #16) what you have is a swirling disjointed mess which followed through to it's logical conclusion could result in your head doing a "slim whitman" :p

Indian Love Call in Mars Attacks! - YouTube

[tien an]

Forgive my lack of understanding in all this, but does that mean that with A=432Hz, if the frets weren't spaced accordingly, you would have 13 different notes instead? (although maybe sounding out of tune?) - since they overlap areas where the frets should be.

Hi father ted.

I've just had a very long conversation about this with a guitarist friend of mine.

It seems that you guitarists are very lucky indeed, in that you can tune down approximately a 4th, or up a 3rd and, depending on the quality of the instrument, with no discernible errors in intonation ('wrong' fret-spacing).

The answer to your question is therefore 'no'.
If I've given the impression that your intonation would suffer due to the frets being in the wrong positions for A=432Hz, then I stand corrected.

If you tried this on a wind instrument (apart from the trombone), you would very quickly notice that the intonation in the higher register would go very awry.

The only things that inhibit you, it seems, is that at some point you will tune so low that your strings will start 'buzzing' on the frets or you will tune so high that your strings will begin to snap.

The same friend reminded me of the time we had a Hammond Organ in the band (those were the days), to which we all had to tune 'down'.
It wasn't as far as A=432Hz, but it was low enough to 'feel' it.
It was great.

I really like your post, astrochicken.
I'd be interested to see/hear if any wind instruments are to be used at the festival, and what kind.

[brian t collins]

Good luck with the festival but I think this 432Hz thing has been way over simplified.

I´m getting to like the way John Harrison´s 1775 temperament sounds with C=256hz ;)


C=256Hz is in the A=432 harmonic overtone series

Great work