voyage to hollow earth cancelled - leader dies

[everything]

http://www.voyagehollowearth.com/
impeccable timing?

[herebynightfall]

that's a shame really.
he was onto something big.
do you know how he died?
was there an investigation?

good topic. hollow earth.
lots to be learned. and "discovered"

love always.

[tickles]

I thought the trip was still going ahead?

[devyn]

I heard the trip was still on, now it is gonna be sometime in the fall of '07.

Brooks Agnew is the new leader of the trip.

[synergy777]

hollow earth? its a bit too far fetched to me.is this the theory thats theer another sun/world beneath the surface, where reptiles/bi peds live. could this be platos cave, or hell?

[david ickes bike]

Hollow Earth is a crock.

[indigo]

Has anyone looked at google earth? And seen the 'poles'. They clearly should have been called 'holes'. Perhaps they were called holes once.

[david ickes bike]

So you have spotted the holes then. A thousand miles across some say. Ct's have always told me you cant see them from satellite pics because they are all strictly controlled.

So dont keep it to yourself what the coordinates?

[reptilianshapeshifter]

So you have spotted the holes then. A thousand miles across some say. Ct's have always told me you cant see them from satellite pics because they are all strictly controlled.

So dont keep it to yourself what the coordinates?

when they can't be seen from aerial views they often lay under ice too :D

[david ickes bike]

Can someone please explain the orbit of the Moon from the point of view that the Earth is hollow?

[hagbard_celine]

I heard the trip was still on, now it is gonna be sometime in the fall of '07.

Brooks Agnew is the new leader of the trip.

It was supposed to be in late summer last year. Then the website went down for no apparent reason. If I'd had the money I'd have liked to have gone along; but seeing as each ticket was $40,000 it was a bit beyond my price range.

Still, what were they planning to do? Come back and announce the the media that the Earth is hollow? They'd be laughed into the middle of next week!

But would they be allowed to come back? Maybe the powers-that-be don't want to take the risk of anyone taking the expedition's claims seriously and send a submarine to torpedo them just as they emerge from the polar orifice.

[misscpb]

http://www.voyagehollowearth.com/
impeccable timing?


Now thats very strange, or should I say unfortunately to be expected when someone is going to highlight something that others do not want us to know about.

[david ickes bike]

The moment of inertia of a spheroid of non-uniform density depends on knowing how density varies with depth, or radius. The devastating tsunamis in southeast Asia displaced enough mass to alter Earth's rotation, computably so. Computing how much the rotation was slowed depends on knowing accurate the Earth's moment of inertia. And the computed slowing in the rotation is empirically verifiable according to astronomical sidereal measurement. If the Earth were hollow, its moment of inertia would not be the same as is now understood.

[reptilianshapeshifter]

I don't know how that information affects the plausibility study some south african guy did on the hollow earth but he said it was plausible that the core of the earth was hollow. He didn't say whether or not there were holes in the poles but from what i understood of his presentation the hollow part is not as large as other diagrams I had seen. He also makes no claimes to inner suns or lost civiliasations, only if the math works out or not.

http://www.v-j-enterprises.com/janhol.html

[fuknut]

Can someone please explain the orbit of the Moon from the point of view that the Earth is hollow?

The moon is hollow too .........

http://www.hollowplanets.com/

:D

[hagbard_celine]

The moon is hollow too .........

http://www.hollowplanets.com/

:D

The orbit of the moon doesn't make any difference. It only would if the Earth's gravitational field were different. It's not.

[david ickes bike]

Lol

You are joking right?

[david ickes bike]

The orbit of the moon doesn't make any difference. It only would if the Earth's gravitational field were different. It's not.

So the mass of the two bodies wouldn't make a difference then is that what you are saying?

[hagbard_celine]

Lol

You are joking right?


Not at all. Why would the Earth being hollow make any difference to the moon?

[hagbard_celine]

So the mass of the two bodies wouldn't make a difference then is that what you are saying?

Of course it would, but what does an object's mass have to do with its shape or volume?

[david ickes bike]

The orbit of the Moon is reliant on the mass of the Earth being what it is. If the Earth was hollow the moons orbit would be different. The Moons orbit supports the fact that the Earth is not hollow.

You understand mass changes gravity fields yes? If so they you have answered your own question.

[hagbard_celine]

http://http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=3728146539169815187&q=hollow+earth&total=280&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=5

This is an illustrated episode of a C2C radio show.

Brooks Agnew is the new leader of the supposed Hollow Earth expedition, following the death of Steve Currey. If you recall I've mentioned this expedition before. A year ago I listened to Rodney Clough saying exactly the same thing on George Noory's show!

Then came rumours that this ship had broken down and had to return to port, but the website was taken down with no further explanation. how many $40,000 ticket holders lost their money?

[hagbard_celine]

The orbit of the Moon is reliant on the mass of the Earth being what it is. If the Earth was hollow the moons orbit would be different. The Moons orbit supports the fact that the Earth is not hollow.

You understand mass changes gravity fields yes? If so they you have answered your own question.

We know what the mass of the Earth is, but is it the mass of a solid Earth or a hollow Earth? If it's the mass of the Earth as it is: hollow; then what exactly are you saying?

Are you saying that if the Earth were hollow then it's mass would be hypotheitcally less? But to say this you have to take it for granted that the Earth is a solid sphere to begin with. The only variable in this issue is the density of the planet's rock. If the Earth is hollow then its density must be far higher than that postulated by the Solid Sphere model. It's a bit like misjudging how dense chocolate is by hefting an Easter Egg in your hand... unaware that Easter Eggs are in in fact hollow inside and not solid chocolate all the way through to the core (A discovery which disappointed me a child!:D)

[david ickes bike]

If you know the mass,speed of rotation and distance apart etc of 2 objects you can predict the orbit they will follow. We know these parameters for the Earth and Moon and they follow the orbit predicted. If you suddenly hollowed out one or both the orbits would change.

[hagbard_celine]

If you know the mass,speed of rotation and distance apart etc of 2 objects you can predict the orbit they will follow. We know these parameters for the Earth and Moon and they follow the orbit predicted. If you suddenly hollowed out one or both the orbits would change.

But nothing has been "suddenly hollowed out". The mass and gravity of the planets is what it is; the Earth and moon are the way they are whether they happen to be hollow or solid. There are five parameters here: The Earth and moon's mass, gravity, volume, shape and density. The first two are not in question; we know what they are! What is in question is simply the volume, density and shape of the two bodies.

You can't disprove the hollow Earth theory by your arguments. It would be like trying to prove that Easter eggs are solid by saying: "If this egg was hollow it would weight a lot less" while you unknowingly hold up one in your hand that you think is solid when it already is hollow.

[herebynightfall]

i was basically about to post that same thing hagbart

[david ickes bike]

Bang head on wall nobody said it had suddenly been hollowed out.

Would changing the mass of the Earth change the orbit of the Moon?

Yes it would.

We have formulas to work out the orbit of planets. These formulas agree with the orbit as we observe it for an Earth thats not hollow numbers in the formula. If we changed one of the numbers IE mass of the Earth the orbit of the moon would change.

OK lets put it another way if the Earth was hollow the orbit of the moon would be different. It isn't its exacly as the calculations would predicts for a none hollow Earth.

[reptilianshapeshifter]

ok I am not even familar earth densities but going by the logic of the flow of this conversation I have to say that hagbard_celine is right.

He is saying that the mass of the earth is the same regardless of if the earth has a hollow core or not because it is not proven beyond all doubt that more "stuff" i.e. density is not packed into a smaller area thus giving the same mass. Which by my logic is correct.

Of course, that neither proves or disproves that the earth is hollow.

The feasbility study takes this into account (that book i mentioned above). I think it's worth a look if only to see what the guy is saying and from the video i saw he seemed to come at it with a critical view and wasn't going to prove or disprove it, only see if the mathematics were feasible. Considering there are variables that are taken for granted in calculating the earths density I think the video i saw made interesting and valid points but i cannot confirm or disprove any of the mathematics involved in it.

[herebynightfall]

http://www.promedia.net/users/vtown/map.gif

[reptilianshapeshifter]

how do people manage down there in constant sunlight? :D

[david ickes bike]

Why dosent it fly apart?

[reptilianshapeshifter]

sellotape

[david ickes bike]

sellotape

:D

Jack white (HB pro) claims that the Apollo CM's were held together with sellotape.

[cleopatraxxx]

Can someone please explain the orbit of the Moon from the point of view that the Earth is hollow?

i dont want to contradict anyone,
but....hehehehe,
and what if the MOON is not the natural sattelite we we taught to think it is;)??? some say it is also hollow...besides the fact humans not ever being able to see it's "dark" side...(:confused:)

LOL

COOL TOPIC

CLeoXXX

[hagbard_celine]

Would changing the mass of the Earth change the orbit of the Moon?

Yes it would.

We have formulas to work out the orbit of planets. These formulas agree with the orbit as we observe it for an Earth thats not hollow numbers in the formula. If we changed one of the numbers IE mass of the Earth the orbit of the moon would change.



The formulas only relate to a planets gravitational field. Gravitational fields are not proportional to a planet's shape and density; they are proportional to its mass. You can't decide that a planet is solid simply by measuring its mass and gravity. Unless you know the density of the entire planet, which we don't in the case of any plaet, including Earth.

I don't think you understand my point, Dave. Can anyone else explain it beter?

[hagbard_celine]

how do people manage down there in constant sunlight? :D


Life there has evolved that way. The Inner Earthers might just as easily ask: "How do they manage up there with the sun shining only half the time?" Most stars are binaries or consist of more than two stars, especially as you get closer to the Milky Way's hub, so it's likely that most planets are constantly in sunlight, or are for the majority of the time. The Earth is in an unusual position: orbiting a single star isolated from others by great distance. Night may well be a rare thing in the universe.

Isaac Asimov wrote a great story about this called "Nightfall" which he later novelized with Robert Silverberg. It's about a planet that never knows night because it's in the heart of a multiple-star solar system. The nearest they get to night is when only one of the stars is shining. But unknown to the beings who live on the planet, there's moon with an eccentric orbit that ecclipses that single star every thousand years or so when it is alone in the sky, creating a brief nightfall. The result is planetary upheaval with the intelligent creatures who live there going mad and destroying their civilization, vegetation dies and animals become extinct.

[hagbard_celine]

sellotape

:D:D:cool:

It's possible that gravity doesn't work quite the way we think it does, but that's a long story. Sorry, Mr Newton!

We've worked out what gravity is and how it works from observing how objects are attracted to eachother on the Earth and in space, but we don't know for sure that the same forces are at work under our feet. It's an extrapolation from the outer onto the inner.

[reptilianshapeshifter]

The formulas only relate to a planets gravitational field. Gravitational fields are not proportional to a planet's shape and density; they are proportional to its mass. You can't decide that a planet is solid simply by measuring its mass and gravity. Unless you know the density of the entire planet, which we don't in the case of any plaet, including Earth.

I don't think you understand my point, Dave. Can anyone else explain it beter?

i've already explained your point on the previous page.

If the earth is hollow and has two points of entry at the top and bottom why would the earth split apart? If you drill a hole through a tennis ball and spin it around it wouldn't fly off in pieces.

[hagbard_celine]

i've already explained your point on the previous page.

If the earth is hollow and has two points of entry at the top and bottom why would the earth split apart? If you drill a hole through a tennis ball and spin it around it wouldn't fly off in pieces.


Yes, you put it better than I did. Thanks. :)

[david ickes bike]

i've already explained your point on the previous page.

If the earth is hollow and has two points of entry at the top and bottom why would the earth split apart? If you drill a hole through a tennis ball and spin it around it wouldn't fly off in pieces.


The orbit of the Moon is what is forecast by the calculations based on the Earth not being hollow. If you do the same calculations working on the fact the Earth is Hollow you would get a different shaped orbit for the the moon. We observe the first not the latter.


Its not the holes that might make it fly apart its the crust thickness.

[hagbard_celine]

The orbit of the Moon is what is forecast by the calculations based on the Earth not being hollow. If you do the same calculations working on the fact the Earth is Hollow you would get a different shaped orbit for the the moon. We observe the first not the latter..


Why? How does the Earth's shape change the orbit when its gravitational field remains the same?

[reptilianshapeshifter]

The orbit of the Moon is what is forecast by the calculations based on the Earth not being hollow. If you do the same calculations working on the fact the Earth is Hollow you would get a different shaped orbit for the the moon. We observe the first not the latter.


Its not the holes that might make it fly apart its the crust thickness.

Surely the moon's orbit is calculated by the mass of the earth so whether or not the earth is hollow doesn't matter. if the same amount of density is packed into a smaller space then it will have the same mass. We take it for granted that the amount of stuff in the earth weighs whatever it weighs because we assume the earth is solid. If the earth is hollow it means the same amount of stuff is packed between in the inner and outer crust, thus the density and weight would be the same.

I am not saying that i believe the earth is hollow (it might well be) but I do think your logic is not correct in disproving that the earth is hollow by the moon/mass argument.

[david ickes bike]

Who said anything about the Eath changing shap?


If your working out the orbit of the Moon you need to include the mass of the Earth into the equation. Lets say for a hollow earth the mass is 1 for a solid earth the mass is 2. Now by using the different numbers obviously you will get a different answer. When we observe the orbit of the moon it is what would be expected from a solid Earth. In other words the observation matches the calculation if you use 2 but wouldn't if you use 1.

As for not knowing the density:

The density of the Earth is higher than that of any other planet in our solar system. Sources vary when it comes to the density of the Earth. All the numbers that were provided are so close to each other, however, that they can each be considered valid. Some assorted numbers given would be: 5.5, 5.52, and 5.15 g/cm3 .

Mass of the Earth 5.979 × 1024 kg
Radius of the Earth 6.3713 × 103 km


They divide the mass of the Earth by the volume, which gives the average density of the material in the earth as 3.2 ounces per cubic inch (5.5 g/cm3).

Mean Density: (water = 1) 5.52.

The average density of the planet [Earth] is 5.52

Mean density (g/cm3) 5.515

[reptilianshapeshifter]

yeah but you can't say "let's say the mass is 1 for a hollow earth and the mass is 2 for a solid earth". The mass is the same for either situation because there is no way to prove beyond all doubt that the core is solid. the fact the earth is solid is an assumption. if the earth is hollow it means the mass is more densley packed into a small area.

"Earth's inner core is solid iron, its outer core is liquid iron mixed with other components, and its mantle is dense rock"

All those components have different densities and mass^ and those assumptions are how the overal mass is calculated.

"What we do know about the core -- that there is a solid inner core of pure iron the size of the Moon, an outer liquid core rich in iron the size of Mars, and an irregular boundary between the liquid core and the bottom of the rocky mantle -- comes mostly from studying how seismic waves travel through the earth."

In the video with Jan he shows an alternative system to explain the seismic wave results and how they could be valid for an earth with a hollow core.

I'd like to get hold of the book and read it thoroughly. Of course, it could be all mumbo jumbo but one should study the facts.