Final warning: legal action. Best way to respond?

[darryl84]

I received this letter today, i dont have a scanner on me, so ive typed out the letter and made a screenshot, the letter was addressed to me as MR, the first letter of my first name in capitals, and then my surname all in capitals.

When it states to recover debt we may apply to the court to take funds direct from my wages, can that be done without my consent?

Also what do you think the best way of replying is?

Im trying to write something up that i can send back tomorrow, they sent it just before a four day holiday break with a ten days deadline ending next thursday, cheeky fucks! they also changed the end of the name of my town to dimsham, as if thats some kind of typing error, yeh right. haha

Here's the letter:

http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/9418/legalletterscreenshota.jpg (http://img17.imageshack.us/my.php?image=legalletterscreenshota.jpg)

[comma berenices]

Do you mind me asking a couple of questions?

[darryl84]

Yeh fire away mate.

[grannymoose]

thats a standard scare letter dude, i got lots of them :D

[comma berenices]

Is the debt secured on your property.

And how old is the debt,if it's over 6yrs old and you have had no contact with any collection agency it's statute barred.legal route.

You can write to them informing them you have no contract with them,that would be the freeman route.

The best place to find advice on the freeman route is on the tpuc site.

I'll have a route about and see what i can find for you.

[darryl84]

Yeh i understand that, but i have read on the forum that if i do not reply with a letter i will be commiting "dishonour", which i think is legal language terminology for subjecting to the what the letter requests or something, im not certain though.

I was thinking of replying and including wording like below, which i have seen posted around the forum, i have no idea if it would be applicable or not though, any ideas?

Verification of Debt by requesting Proof of Claim:

"I accept your request for payment upon proof of claim of the debt as stated. Please provide me with the following;
1. Verification of debt, including full bookkeeping records.
2. A contract between you and me, establishing a debt, signed by both parties.
3. A bill signed by you, under full commercial liability of perjury."

[darryl84]

Is the debt secured on your property.

And how old is the debt,if it's over 6yrs old and you have had no contact with any collection agency it's statute barred.legal route.

You can write to them informing them you have no contract with them,that would be the freeman route.

The best place to find advice on the freeman route is on the tpuc site.

I'll have a route about and see what i can find for you.

I dont have a property, so thats not a problem.

The debt ratcheted up late last year when Barclays started reserve charging me when i was over my £1000 overdraft by about £30, they kept adding the charges to it reached about £1379, even though i went it to the bank and asked them to freeze the charges, i then went into barclays again later and spoke to the manager eventually they froze, i also spoke to two people on the phone, wrote barclays two letters and an income and expenditure form. So basically i went by the legal rules, but they continue to fuck me up the arse, so i want to see if i can get this debt wiped for them being such smart arses with me when i played so nice by the legal rules for so bloody long.

The letter came from Barclays PLC, Collections and Recoveries.

Any tips would be grateful, im going to give this a good go and see if i can get this debt cleared, if i can, which im sure lots have? Then why not many others!

[comma berenices]

Grannymouse is correct about the content of the letter trying to scare you.

It's how they play nowadays,frighten you into replying.

One good point to remember is never to phone these people.

Some questions to put in your letter.

1 Prove the debt-eg Show you the actual accounting and ledger entries.

2 Ask for a signed invoice for the money they lent you.

3 Ask for a copy of the contract with the signitures of you and the lender.

They can't answer these questions because they did'nt actually loan you any money.

[comma berenices]

I dont have a property, so thats not a problem.

The debt ratcheted up late last year when Barclays started reserve charging me when i was over my £1000 overdraft by about £30, they kept adding the charges to it reached about £1379, even though i went it to the bank and asked them to freeze the charges, i then went into barclays again later and spoke to the manager eventually they froze, i also spoke to two people on the phone, wrote barclays two letters and an income and expenditure form. So basically i went by the legal rules, but they continue to fuck me up the arse, so i want to see if i can get this debt wiped for them being such smart arses with me when i played so nice by the legal rules for so bloody long.

The letter came from Barclays PLC, Collections and Recoveries.

Any tips would be grateful, im going to give this a good go and see if i can get this debt cleared, if i can, which im sure lots have? Then why not many others!


They are more afraid than you are,they are becoming very aware that people are beginning to see through their system,thats why the letters are so threatening.

So it seems that a large amount of the debt are charges.

many people are intimitdated by the letters and get themselves in a terrible state over them.

most people are not aware of the system,even though they claim their charges back from the banks.

My husband has had a problem with barclays we just ignored the letters eventually they sent a baliff round but i would'nt let them in.

I sent a letter asking the 3 questions and we've not heard anything for the last 6 months.

[call2571]

Screw the Bailiff have some good advice

http://criminal-bailiffs.angelfire.com/index.htm

[comma berenices]

Screw the Bailiff have some good advice

http://criminal-bailiffs.angelfire.com/index.htm

Brilliant site,i learnt alot from them.

Another good site www.fmotl.com

[comma berenices]

Yeh i understand that, but i have read on the forum that if i do not reply with a letter i will be commiting "dishonour", which i think is legal language terminology for subjecting to the what the letter requests or something, im not certain though.

I was thinking of replying and including wording like below, which i have seen posted around the forum, i have no idea if it would be applicable or not though, any ideas?

Yep this is the one,I don't know how i managed to miss this post sorry:o

Good luck

cb

[darryl84]

Im trying to find templates to write this letter to barclays, i've seen them around this forum before, and ive just looked through all 21 pages and couldnt find one suitable! Typical can never find something when you want it! :p

[darryl84]

Ok, i found a template that was just posted within the last several hours on the fmotl website! lol

Here it is:

see below

[darryl84]

see below


I've updated the letter, and im wondering if i should sign it? And also if it matters if i write without ill will, vexation or frivolity after sincerely?

I have added 3 more proofs of claim to the list; 1. Upon proof of claim of the verification of debt, including full bookkeeping records.

2. Upon proof of claim of a contract between you and me, establishing a debt, signed by both parties.

3. Upon proof of claim of a bill signed by you, under full commercial liability of perjury.

Do they flow with the original list?

Ive got to send this off within minutes, so quick replies would be fantastic! :)

[darryl84]

In care of:
[censored address]
Near: [censored postcode]


Date: April 14th, 2009

Re: [censored]
Demand date: 16th April 2009
Barclays Account Number: [censored] Sort Code: [censored]

Notice of Discharge of Outstanding Demand and Request for Clarification.

Barclays Bank PLC,
Collections and Recoveries,



Dear Sirs,

Please read the following notice thoroughly and carefully before responding. It is a notice. It informs you. It means what it says.

The reason why you need to read carefully is simple. I am offering conditional agreement. This removes controversy, and means that you no longer have any ultimate recourse to a court of law in this matter, because there is no controversy upon which it could adjudicate. You always have the option of dragging these conditions into a court of law only to be told that they are, indeed, perfectly lawful. That is, of course, always your prerogative should you decide to waste your time.

For this reason it is important that you consider and respond to the offer in substance. The 'nearest official form' will not suffice, and consequently is likely to be ignored by myself without any dishonour on my part.

On the other hand there is a time-limit on the agreement being offered. It is reasonable, and if it runs out then you and all associated parties are in default, removing any and all lawful excuse on your part for proceeding in this matter.
For these reasons it is recommended that you carefully consider this notice and respond in substance, which means actually addressing the points raised herein.

You have apparently made demands upon me.

I do not understand those apparent demands and therefore cannot lawfully fulfil them. I seek clarification of your document so that I may act according to the law and maintain my entire body of inalienable Natural Rights.

You have ten days from the date of this letter to clarify completely and accept in good faith this offer.

I conditionally accept your offer to agree that I am legal fiction MR [censored] and that I owe £1379.73 for services rendered by your company, upon proof of claim of all of the following:

1. Upon proof of claim that the debt has been verified, this includes full bookkeeping records.

2. Upon proof of claim that a contract exists between you and me, establishing a debt, signed by both parties.

3. Upon proof of claim that a bill has been signed by you, under full commercial liability of perjury.

4. Upon proof of claim that I am a person, and not a human being.

5. Upon proof of claim that you know what a 'person' actually is, in legal terms.

6. Upon proof of claim that you know the difference between a 'human being' and a 'person', legally speaking.

7. Upon proof of claim that you know the difference between 'legal' and a 'lawful'.

8. Upon proof of claim that I am legal fiction 'person' MR [censored], being the entity to which your paperwork was addressed, and not [censored] of the [censored] family, as commonly called.

9. Upon proof of claim that the charge was the result of a lawful investigation unmarred by prejudice.

10. Upon proof of claim that I am a member of the society whose statutes and subsisting regulations you are enforcing.

11. Upon proof of claim that I showed you some sort of identification.

12. Upon proof of claim that there is a nameable society that I belong to and that the laws covered within any alleged transgressions state that they apply to me within that named society.

Sincerely and without ill will, vexation or frivolity

[censored] of the [censored] family
WITHOUT PREJUDICE, i.e. all Natural Inalienable Rights Reserved
Please address all future correspondence in the matter to a direct Human Self, namely [censored] of the [censored] family, as commonly called.


I missed the last post so im going to send the letter first class recorded delivery on tuesday afternoon to arrive the next day. So any ideas people can give that can improve this document and make it more likely to achieve a successful outcome for me the better! If not, i will send it as above.

I also want the letter to go as high up as possible, im going to address it to C.E.O, and then the normal address hoping it will go higher up, but dont know if it will, any ideas who specifically to address this too from the Barclays PLC Collection and Recoveries team?

Cheers! :)

[comma berenices]

I missed the last post so im going to send the letter first class recorded delivery on tuesday afternoon to arrive the next day. So any ideas people can give that can improve this document and make it more likely to achieve a successful outcome for me the better! If not, i will send it as above.

I also want the letter to go as high up as possible, im going to address it to C.E.O, and then the normal address hoping it will go higher up, but dont know if it will, any ideas who specifically to address this too from the Barclays PLC Collection and Recoveries team?

Cheers! :)

The letter is perfect,when you put your family name it must be in capitols your legal fiction.

I would'nt sign it,they can use your signiture.It makes them alot of money.

You could try looking online for barclays head office,address it to the C.E.O by all means, it's doubtfull he'll even get to read it.

[alternative_answer]

Brilliant site,i learnt alot from them.

Another good site www.fmotl.com

Fanatstic website and info, so easy to understand and digest, makes soooooooooo much sense. I am going to devote time to understanding this information. In order to change the system we need to know it, understand it and be equal to it. That way it has no power over us.

[comma berenices]

Fanatstic website and info, so easy to understand and digest, makes soooooooooo much sense. I am going to devote time to understanding this information. In order to change the system we need to know it, understand it and be equal to it. That way it has no power over us.

It opened my eye's,i like the layout too,no frills.
We regain the power from them.I feel very different since i discovered this knowledge.I feel empowered and motivated, something i probably never felt before.

[alternative_answer]

It opened my eye's,i like the layout too,no frills.
We regain the power from them.I feel very different since i discovered this knowledge.I feel empowered and motivated, something i probably never felt before.

Me to, I no longer police officers not as my adversaries or any other agent of the PTB. My suggestion is that we learn our rights, we realise that we have rights and we maintain our rights at all times when confronted by anyone who believes that they have power and authority over us. We don't need to fight, we merely need to become equal to it.

[spoonogsback]

The letter is perfect,when you put your family name it must be in capitols your legal fiction.

I would'nt sign it,they can use your signiture.It makes them alot of money.

You could try looking online for barclays head office,address it to the C.E.O by all means, it's doubtfull he'll even get to read it.

Hi guys. Signing is not a problem once you attach a condition to your signature then it cannot be used to hypothecate a bill of exchange or any other security instrument for that matter. there are differrent ways of doing so. So for ex. you could write " By:ABCD of clan ABCD. or you could put on behalf of ABCD of ABCD. Whatever you do do not give a bare naked signature.....
Oh on your future notices perhaps you would put With God as my witness. If you don't believe in God or a god what have you got to lose? but remember they take an oath before God so as far as they are concerned you have a witness......Lets see them call him to the Stand...LOL

Peace.

[merlincove]

just found the thread - great letter, man.

and thanks for the links

good luck

[number_6]

Barclays normally will not take you to Court for this amount, but will probably sell the debt on to a DCA who will. Surely when setting up the OD facility you signed an agreement?

[comma berenices]

Hi guys. Signing is not a problem once you attach a condition to your signature then it cannot be used to hypothecate a bill of exchange or any other security instrument for that matter. there are differrent ways of doing so. So for ex. you could write " By:ABCD of clan ABCD. or you could put on behalf of ABCD of ABCD. Whatever you do do not give a bare naked signature.....
Oh on your future notices perhaps you would put With God as my witness. If you don't believe in God or a god what have you got to lose? but remember they take an oath before God so as far as they are concerned you have a witness......Lets see them call him to the Stand...LOL

Peace.

Thank you,another little knowledge iv'e learnt.:D

[broccoligarden]

Hello, thought i would add this link http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/

I found it very helpful. I compiled a 'conditional acceptance upon proof of claim' letter and then also used some info i received from the link here.

So far DCA have ignored my requests for proof of debt, Halifax replied to a letter i sent to their DCA Albion Collections and said that under UK law they "believed"!!! they were not obliged to provide debt verification???

Anyway hope the link helps too.
Float on summer days eh :)

[bsmurph83]

Barclays normally will not take you to Court for this amount, but will probably sell the debt on to a DCA who will. Surely when setting up the OD facility you signed an agreement?

Unless the 'agreement' was a legally binding contract then it doesn't matter. It's irrelevant. Where is the contract featuring signatures of both parties? Where is proof of the due consideration? Where is it evidenced that the rest of the requirements for a legally binding contract were fulfilled?

The essential elements are:

1. The intention of the parties to create a legal relationship.

2. An offer by one party and its acceptance by the other.

3. Valuable consideration or execution under seal or (in some instances) valuable consideration plus some written record.

4. Legal capacity of the parties to act.

5. A genuine consent by the parties.

6. Legality of the objects of the agreement.

7. Certainty of agreed conditions.

8. Full disclosure

If they can't provide this then you owe them nothing. Simple.

[mark will i am]

Yes then they're in dishonour

[yozhik]

So far DCA have ignored my requests for proof of debt, Halifax replied to a letter i sent to their DCA Albion Collections and said that under UK law they "believed"!!! they were not obliged to provide debt verification???


As ridiculous as the claims of Halifax may sound; it would not surprise me if true ... at least, under statute.

However, unless the premise or foundation can be proven (there is a debt), then there would not appear to be a case nor grounds for finding/requiring judgement

[bsmurph83]

well unless they sign an affidavit in support of their (absurd?) beliefs, then your own unrebutted affidavits would be the judgement in the matter, just ask yozhik hehehe

[girlgye]

Grannymouse is correct about the content of the letter trying to scare you.

It's how they play nowadays,frighten you into replying.

One good point to remember is never to phone these people.

Some questions to put in your letter.

1 Prove the debt-eg Show you the actual accounting and ledger entries.

2 Ask for a signed invoice for the money they lent you.

3 Ask for a copy of the contract with the signitures of you and the lender.

They can't answer these questions because they did'nt actually loan you any money.

What do you do when they send you the agreement with your signature on and a member of staffs signature?
What is this contract really supposed to imply?

[comma berenices]

What do you do when they send you the agreement with your signature on and a member of staffs signature?
What is this contract really supposed to imply?

The agreement (contract)implie's that you have contracted with them, debt collection agencies are third party and there is no contract with them.

You can still send a letter asking for validation of the debt, a sworn affidavit,
and actual accounting.They cannot fulfill these obligations because they will commit fraud,There was no debt in the first instance,they make their money on what you pay them back plus the interest.I'm with the assumption the agreement is with a bank?.

How did you come to have an agreement with two sigs is it a recent one?.

My hubby has an agreement with two sigs on it,for car finance but he won't let me challenge it,he thinks he's free:rolleyes:

Have a look at the websites posted in this thread to find a good template. letter,i would post one but i'm not techy and have'nt been using a pc for very long and i'm not familiar with with how to put one up.

[darryl84]

I missed the last post so im going to send the letter first class recorded delivery on tuesday afternoon to arrive the next day. So any ideas people can give that can improve this document and make it more likely to achieve a successful outcome for me the better! If not, i will send it as above.

I also want the letter to go as high up as possible, im going to address it to C.E.O, and then the normal address hoping it will go higher up, but dont know if it will, any ideas who specifically to address this too from the Barclays PLC Collection and Recoveries team?

Cheers! :)


Ok, i received bank statements back from them, can this be considered bookkeeping records? They also gave me 8 weeks to reply, so in response i will be giving them 8 weeks to reply to my next letter, because i have a feeling that if you do not reciprocate communication opportunities you come into 'dishonour', feel free to tell me otherwise if you believe that to be incorrect interpretation. :)

[darryl84]

Still can someone confirm whether bookkeeping records are bank statements?

And i received a letter through from Barclays before the 8 weeks i was given to respond stating to me that, "We will no longer accept any further communication from you." My immediate thought was that Barclays were now in 'dishonour', can someone explain if that is the case, and if so why?

Im writing a letter back to barclays now, pretty much asking for the clarification of what wasn't clarified from just bank statements (even if bank statements are bookkeeping records, there is still a lot left on the list of clarification points that they didn't address), and stating they are in dishonour for giving me 8 weeks to reply and then passing my account onto Cedit Solutions LTD before the deadline was up. If this is dishonour commited by barclays, what does that make legally of their claims against me, does it nullify them, can i legally tell them they are 'in dishonour and have thus nullified their claim against me', or something similar? I really need a bit more help from people a bit wiser than myself in freeman, legalese matters! Cheers! :D :)

[darryl84]

This is basically a rough draft i have come up with, please tell me where you think i have gone right or wrong, legally speaking. Cheers! :)


Notice of Discharge of Outstanding Demand, Request for Clarification, and Illumination of Barclays Dishonour.

Barclays Bank PLC,
Retail Banking Customer Relations,
Leicester,
LE87 2BB


Dear Sirs,

Please read the following notice thoroughly and carefully before responding. It is an illumination of Barclays dishonour. It is a notice. It informs you. It means what it says.

The reason why you need to read carefully is simple. Barclays have committed dishonour against my person after I conditionally agreed to a settlement. My person MR [censored] was given 8 weeks to reply; this notice was received in writing, and is stored in records for any future need. The letter was dated as 22nd April 2009, which means those 8 weeks were due to expire on 17th June 2009, however a letter was sent to my person MR [censored], stating quote ‘We [Barclays Bank PLC] will no longer accept any further communication from you’. The claim against my person because of this dishonour by Barlcays PLC now nullifies the agreement and forfeits the charges and demands against my person MR [censored].




Not only did Barclays commit dishonour against my person MR [censored], they also did not clarify the ‘proof of claims’ against my person MR [censored] [that are listed] below that were part of the conditional agreement accepted, even though in the previous correspondence it was stated that the “'nearest official form' will not suffice, and consequently is likely to be ignored by myself without any dishonour on my part”, and “For these reasons it is recommended that you carefully consider this notice and respond in substance, which means actually addressing the points raised herein.”.


1. Upon proof of claim that the debt has been verified, this includes full bookkeeping records.

2. Upon proof of claim that a contract exists between you and me, establishing a debt, signed by both parties.

3. Upon proof of claim that a bill has been signed by you, under full commercial liability of perjury.

4. Upon proof of claim that I am a person, and not a human being.

5. Upon proof of claim that you know what a 'person' actually is, in legal terms.

6. Upon proof of claim that you know the difference between a 'human being' and a 'person', legally speaking.

7. Upon proof of claim that you know the difference between 'legal' and a 'lawful'.

8. Upon proof of claim that I am legal fiction 'person' MR [censored], being the entity to which your paperwork was addressed, and not [censored] of the [censored] family, as commonly called.

9. Upon proof of claim that the charge was the result of a lawful investigation unmarred by prejudice.

10. Upon proof of claim that I am a member of the society whose statutes and subsisting regulations you are enforcing.

11. Upon proof of claim that I showed you some sort of identification.

12. Upon proof of claim that there is a nameable society that I belong to and that the laws covered within any alleged transgressions state that they apply to me within that named society.

Sincerely and without ill will, vexation or frivolity

[censored] of the [censored] family
WITHOUT PREJUDICE, i.e. all Natural Inalienable Rights Reserved
Please address all future correspondence in the matter to a direct Human Self, namely [censored] of the [censored] family, as commonly called.


Basically, if i sent the letter off like this, how would it be responded to? Im pretty sure it needs some legal tweaking, need someone with more expertised knowledge of legalese to add a comment of advice or two! cheers! :D :)

[injustice]

I received this letter today, i dont have a scanner on me, so ive typed out the letter and made a screenshot, the letter was addressed to me as MR, the first letter of my first name in capitals, and then my surname all in capitals.

When it states to recover debt we may apply to the court to take funds direct from my wages, can that be done without my consent?

Also what do you think the best way of replying is?

Im trying to write something up that i can send back tomorrow, they sent it just before a four day holiday break with a ten days deadline ending next thursday, cheeky fucks! they also changed the end of the name of my town to dimsham, as if thats some kind of typing error, yeh right. haha

Here's the letter:

Have they allowed the appropriate time to rectify the default? They must give you 14 days from reciept, ie aprox 16 days from the date of the letter.

[dharmic one]

10/10 for effort my friend!! As long as you keep them in negotiation it removes any need for adjudication over the matter to be exercised by a judge...

If your asking questions and genuinely attempting to clarify the issue you can be quite confident I think in seeing them as the party with which the burden of proof lies. In reading the maxims I think that it is not up to you to prove anything...always remain in that position with respect, humility and honour and you can beat them at their own game......you have nothing to hide dishonourably in many of these matters....

I have found that keeping your cards close to your chest in your correspondence with them is also important, don't give up too much of what you know...does that make sense to you? remember that they know much more about this process than most and they are experts at this fraud that is not as yet viewed by the masses as a crime.......

but I keep things short where I can....my GF has written some letters to these guys ( barclays) and not paid her loan for 2 months now. Be prepared if they have your number to be pestered maybe twice a day by 1 agent after the next, all of whom know nothing of this stuff...why would they? its all done on a need to know basis, the poor souls i have talked to just don't know where to put themselves! Almost all refuse to directly identify themselves or the nature of their call so when they ask " can I speak to..
Mr / miss fiction" both I or my GF ask "am I obliged to answer your question?" this stops the entire conversation as neither of us even have an obligation to answer any of their questions. Tell them to have a nice day too!! They love it! confused by your blatant but polite non-cooperation, they view you as a threat but this dissappears when you respond with empathy to their situation...all of these procedures are crafted above their heads by ingenious yet seemingly inherently corrupted individuals, but they are human beings too...

but you are definitely on the right track I think....

God loves a trier!!

Peace and love to ya...

All the best!!

[darryl84]

Have they allowed the appropriate time to rectify the default? They must give you 14 days from reciept, ie aprox 16 days from the date of the letter.

I wrote them a letter back, and they gave me 8 weeks to respond, and before the 8 weeks was up they passed me onto credit solutions ltd, and said they would no longer accept any further communication from me.

[darryl84]

10/10 for effort my friend!! As long as you keep them in negotiation it removes any need for adjudication over the matter to be exercised by a judge...

If your asking questions and genuinely attempting to clarify the issue you can be quite confident I think in seeing them as the party with which the burden of proof lies. In reading the maxims I think that it is not up to you to prove anything...always remain in that position with respect, humility and honour and you can beat them at their own game......you have nothing to hide dishonourably in many of these matters....

I have found that keeping your cards close to your chest in your correspondence with them is also important, don't give up too much of what you know...does that make sense to you? remember that they know much more about this process than most and they are experts at this fraud that is not as yet viewed by the masses as a crime.......

but I keep things short where I can....my GF has written some letters to these guys ( barclays) and not paid her loan for 2 months now. Be prepared if they have your number to be pestered maybe twice a day by 1 agent after the next, all of whom know nothing of this stuff...why would they? its all done on a need to know basis, the poor souls i have talked to just don't know where to put themselves! Almost all refuse to directly identify themselves or the nature of their call so when they ask " can I speak to..
Mr / miss fiction" both I or my GF ask "am I obliged to answer your question?" this stops the entire conversation as neither of us even have an obligation to answer any of their questions. Tell them to have a nice day too!! They love it! confused by your blatant but polite non-cooperation, they view you as a threat but this dissappears when you respond with empathy to their situation...all of these procedures are crafted above their heads by ingenious yet seemingly inherently corrupted individuals, but they are human beings too...

but you are definitely on the right track I think....

God loves a trier!!

Peace and love to ya...

All the best!!


Thanks for the information and the kind thoughts! :)

[darryl84]

Im wondering by not obeying their own time limit they have commited dishonour?

Legal definition of dishonour:

To refuse to accept or pay a draft or to pay a promissory note when duly presented. An instrument is dishonored when a necessary or optional presentment is made and due acceptance or payment is refused, or cannot be obtained within the prescribed time, or in case of bank collections, the instrument is seasonably returned by the midnight deadline; or presentment is excused and the instrument is not duly accepted or paid. Includes the insurer of a letter of credit refusing to pay or accept a draft or demand for payment.

Thus, it seems that dishonour only applies when payment is not met, so is there must be a different term it appears that applies when a time limit given is disobeyed by the time limit giver, but can anyone help me find out what that legality is? and what that could mean to the agreement made to pay a bill outlined in the supra letter?

Time is of the essence because of a deadline, so any help is requested soon. Cheers! :)

[darryl84]

Includes the insurer of a letter of credit refusing to accept a draft or demand for payment.

Ah, the last part of the dishonour definition might indicate that the time limit given and then disobeyed might actually be dishonour, can someone give that definition their own interpretation, and tell me if it differs, or is the same? cheers! :)

[oghene]

Ah, the last part of the dishonour definition might indicate that the time limit given and then disobeyed might actually be dishonour, can someone give that definition their own interpretation, and tell me if it differs, or is the same? cheers! :)

Honour and dishonour relate to Bills of Exchange - Cheques, promissory notes.

In my opinion you have not been estopped, as the prescribed time given to respond is still in operation. Therefore if they gave you 8 weeks and you accepted it as condition of your negotiation, then they are operating fradulently by applying charges or refusing communication with you before 8 weeks.

They tricked you.

One thing to note, nothing can happen to you the human being. Just your credit score. Your person. Do you actually need a credit rating?

[darryl84]

Honour and dishonour relate to Bills of Exchange - Cheques, promissory notes.

In my opinion you have not been estopped, as the prescribed time given to respond is still in operation. Therefore if they gave you 8 weeks and you accepted it as condition of your negotiation, then they are operating fradulently by applying charges or refusing communication with you before 8 weeks.

They tricked you.

One thing to note, nothing can happen to you the human being. Just your credit score. Your person. Do you actually need a credit rating?


Im not worried about the credit rating, does the fraudulent action void the claim or demands against me or damage their legal standing in anyway?

It seems telling them they were in dishonour would be incorrect, so what can i tell them legally they have committed, and what legal punishment, if any, would fraudulent action against me result in?

[darryl84]

Ok this is what i have now, i have stated i may 'petition', can i do that?

Notice of Discharge of Outstanding Demand, Request for Clarification, and Illumination of Barclays Fraud.

Barclays Bank PLC,
Retail Banking Customer Relations,
Leicester,
LE87 2BB


Dear Sirs,

Please read the following notice thoroughly and carefully before responding. It is an illumination of Barclays fraud. It is a notice. It informs you. It means what it says.

The reason why you need to read carefully is simple. Barclays have committed a fraudulent action against my person MR [censored] after I conditionally agreed to a settlement. My person MR [censored] was given 8 weeks to reply; this notice was received in writing, and is stored in records for any future need. The letter was dated as 22nd April 2009, which means those 8 weeks were due to expire on 17th June 2009, however a letter was sent to my person MR [censored], stating quote ‘We [Barclays Bank PLC] will no longer accept any further communication from you’. I may now petition that the claim against my person MR [censored], because of this fraudulent action by Barlcays PLC, nullify the agreement and forfeit the charges and demands against my person MR [censored].


Not only did Barclays commit a fraudulent action against my person MR [censored], they also did not clarify the ‘proof of claims’ against my person MR [censored] [that are listed] below that were part of the conditional agreement accepted, even though in the previous correspondence it was stated that the “'nearest official form' will not suffice, and consequently is likely to be ignored by myself without any dishonour on my part”, and “For these reasons it is recommended that you carefully consider this notice and respond in substance, which means actually addressing the points raised herein.”.

1. Upon proof of claim that the debt has been verified, this includes full bookkeeping records.

2. Upon proof of claim that a contract exists between you and me, establishing a debt, signed by both parties.

3. Upon proof of claim that a bill has been signed by you, under full commercial liability of perjury.

4. Upon proof of claim that I am a person, and not a human being.

5. Upon proof of claim that you know what a 'person' actually is, in legal terms.

6. Upon proof of claim that you know the difference between a 'human being' and a 'person', legally speaking.

7. Upon proof of claim that you know the difference between 'legal' and a 'lawful'.

8. Upon proof of claim that I am legal fiction 'person' MR [censored], being the entity to which your paperwork was addressed, and not [censored] of the [censored] family, as commonly called.

9. Upon proof of claim that the charge was the result of a lawful investigation unmarred by prejudice.

10. Upon proof of claim that I am a member of the society whose statutes and subsisting regulations you are enforcing.

11. Upon proof of claim that I showed you some sort of identification.

12. Upon proof of claim that there is a nameable society that I belong to and that the laws covered within any alleged transgressions state that they apply to me within that named society.

Sincerely and without ill will, vexation or frivolity

[censored] of the [censored] family
WITHOUT PREJUDICE, i.e. all Natural Inalienable Rights Reserved
Please address all future correspondence in the matter to a direct Human Self, namely [censored] of the [censored] family, as commonly called.

[sindakit]

hey darryl,
Your notice looks good. Just a note to say you have titled your letter as "Notice of Discharge of Outstanding Demand, Request for Clarification, and Illumination of Barclays Fraud"

You have placed your request of clarification by asking for proof of claims and you ahve highlighted the fraud due to the time period they gave then refuse to adhere but you haven't told them to discharge the debt because their failure to act and their fraud commited.

If its in the title of the notice, add a small part about the debt being discharged or considered discharged if no proof is recieved.


Another thing:
You asked earlier if 3 months statement records were bookkeeping. Answer is: NO!
The statements of account are statements of account. They are the numbers as they have appeared on your account, NOT on THEIR books which is what you asked for. A devious plot to trick you!
Where do YOUR statements show THEIR bank has made a loss!? They don't.

Keep on it :)

[darryl84]

hey darryl,
Your notice looks good. Just a note to say you have titled your letter as "Notice of Discharge of Outstanding Demand, Request for Clarification, and Illumination of Barclays Fraud"

You have placed your request of clarification by asking for proof of claims and you ahve highlighted the fraud due to the time period they gave then refuse to adhere but you haven't told them to discharge the debt because their failure to act and their fraud commited.

If its in the title of the notice, add a small part about the debt being discharged or considered discharged if no proof is recieved.


Another thing:
You asked earlier if 3 months statement records were bookkeeping. Answer is: NO!
The statements of account are statements of account. They are the numbers as they have appeared on your account, NOT on THEIR books which is what you asked for. A devious plot to trick you!
Where do YOUR statements show THEIR bank has made a loss!? They don't.

Keep on it :)


Thank you very much for the comments, i already sent off that letter by recorded delivery before you mentioned the supra, ahhh! Can it still be perceived in the way i want it to be as highlighted above? :confused: :)

[girlgye]

Still can someone confirm whether bookkeeping records are bank statements?

And i received a letter through from Barclays before the 8 weeks i was given to respond stating to me that, "We will no longer accept any further communication from you." My immediate thought was that Barclays were now in 'dishonour', can someone explain if that is the case, and if so why?

Im writing a letter back to barclays now, pretty much asking for the clarification of what wasn't clarified from just bank statements (even if bank statements are bookkeeping records, there is still a lot left on the list of clarification points that they didn't address), and stating they are in dishonour for giving me 8 weeks to reply and then passing my account onto Cedit Solutions LTD before the deadline was up. If this is dishonour commited by barclays, what does that make legally of their claims against me, does it nullify them, can i legally tell them they are 'in dishonour and have thus nullified their claim against me', or something similar? I really need a bit more help from people a bit wiser than myself in freeman, legalese matters! Cheers! :D :)


I think you will find that this dishonour thing is a load of ol tut when push comes to shove.

[girlgye]

10/10 for effort my friend!! As long as you keep them in negotiation it removes any need for adjudication over the matter to be exercised by a judge...


Peace and love to ya...

All the best!!

This point just simply isn't true.

[dharmic one]

This point just simply isn't true.

Why so girlgye?

[girlgye]

Because I sent them a notice of clarification saying I was in negotion with them and there was no need for arbitration. They sent a note from a court manager saying court is not arbitration! I cannot bring in cameras this is against the law and ignored the rest. Including my negotiations. They found my strawman guilty its absense and said they proved the case. In short they ignored it. I have sent a letter back now asking for the details of the judge, the oath and asking whether they are prepared to standby what they found and to put a signature to it. Haven't heard anything but DVLA have expired my license as of yesterday.

[dharmic one]

Because I sent them a notice of clarification saying I was in negotion with them and there was no need for arbitration. They sent a note from a court manager saying court is not arbitration! I cannot bring in cameras this is against the law and ignored the rest. Including my negotiations. They found my strawman guilty its absense and said they proved the case. In short they ignored it. I have sent a letter back now asking for the details of the judge, the oath and asking whether they are prepared to standby what they found and to put a signature to it. Haven't heard anything but DVLA have expired my license as of yesterday.

I agree that it seems to be true in your case that you describe. But in my experience clarity and prompt reply with understandings based on indisputable maxims seems to work in maintaining honour. I think we all have to take info from other people and think before we act on it,

Another maxim...."when in doubt, do not act"

[darryl84]

Because I sent them a notice of clarification saying I was in negotion with them and there was no need for arbitration. They sent a note from a court manager saying court is not arbitration! I cannot bring in cameras this is against the law and ignored the rest. Including my negotiations. They found my strawman guilty its absense and said they proved the case. In short they ignored it. I have sent a letter back now asking for the details of the judge, the oath and asking whether they are prepared to standby what they found and to put a signature to it. Haven't heard anything but DVLA have expired my license as of yesterday.

You got that reply because you used the wrong wording in legalese, arbitration is NOT court, arbitration is a voluntary act (unless you contracted to arbitration), that occurs outside of court to resolve matters, via an arbitrator appointed by both concerned parties.

Arbitration is a well-established and widely used means to end disputes. It is one of several kinds of Alternative Dispute Resolution, which provide parties to a controversy with a choice other than litigation. Unlike litigation, arbitration takes place out of court: the two sides select an impartial third party, known as an arbitrator; agree in advance to comply with the arbitrator's award; and then participate in a hearing at which both sides can present evidence and testimony. The arbitrator's decision is usually final, and courts rarely reexamine it.

[girlgye]

You got that reply because you used the wrong wording in legalese, arbitration is NOT court, arbitration is a voluntary act (unless you contracted to arbitration), that occurs outside of court to resolve matters, via an arbitrator appointed by both concerned parties.

ok thanx hun.

[girlgye]

I agree that it seems to be true in your case that you describe. But in my experience clarity and prompt reply with understandings based on indisputable maxims seems to work in maintaining honour. I think we all have to take info from other people and think before we act on it,

Another maxim...."when in doubt, do not act"

yeah I've taken that route. At first I was panicking and desperate. Already I sent my notice off for my conveyance and I can think of two other things that need to go in it. ie no crushing