Houseing market Crash bigger than you realise

[dlb2007]

I couldnt figure out how the housing prices were not falling as dramatically as i thought they would. its took me a while to figure it out but here is the jist.

The price of a house has not fallen as far as i would have expected but, quantitive easing (printing money) has meant that the money itself is of less value.

For example before the crash we will say a certain house costs £100,000
now that same house would have cost say 150,000 euros. now the weak pound has made us almost level with the euro (even though the euro has weakend also.... against what?... Gold) so now in the early stages of the depression the same house costs say

£80,000 - a drop of £20,000

but it also costs

80,000 euro a drop of 70,000 euros

so just on that alone we can see a dramatic drop in the value of the house, however most people gauge value linked to gold

The price of Gold in 2006 before the credit crunch was $540 an ounce in 2009 it has been fluctuating around the $950 an ounce mark.

in 2006 you were getting $1.96 nearly $2 for £1.00 so the price of Gold in £ was roughly £270 an ounce in 2006 - in 2009 the your getting around $1.40 for £1.00 so the price of Gold in £'s is near to £650

so in 2006 your £100,000 house was valued at roughly 370 ounces of Gold
In 2009 your £100,000 house which is now £80,000 is valued at roughly 123 ounces of Gold, now that is a whopping drop in value of your house.

in actuallity your £100,000 house is only worth in comparison to 2006 markets £33,210

what is the real bugger is that the more your house cost the more you have lost.

[batou]

That's great thinking, especially comparing it to oz of gold. I've always been a financial dumbass, so thanks for explaining this. The value lost is staggering.. But people, like me, too stupid with their money wouldn't realize. I'm going to make a point to explain this to others too.
Two thumbs up man!

[jakeee 2008]

great that figures so i am actually paying my 110000 mort-gauge for the next 30 yrs for my 40000 house

[mightiswrong]

Value depends on the size of the garden and materials used in the construction of the houses but let us take a standard example of a 3 bedroom semi detached house with a small garden made of bricks and concrete with poor insulation and lots of harmful materials.

The value is -3.
It is built with harmful concrete for profit and is not built with love. -2
The garden is too small forcing the owner to buy harmful food products from supermarkets. -1.
-2+-1=-3

On the other hand a kin's domain build with love using natural materials is worth +3.

It is built with love and natural materials +2
It has plenty of space for fresh/ loving food to grow. +1
2+1=3

I could actually go further to include other values such as benefits of reduced noise pollution, air pollution, quality water, reduced danger of war, benefits to decendents (gigantic), benefits to nature, increased life expectancy, safety of children, benefits to relationships and a whole host of knock on benefits so that we could calculate much higher positive values of kins domains vs much higher negative values for inner city council flats etc.

[dlb2007]

I am a financial dumbass too, its took me a long time to figure out how it works out.

but get this

If you had sold your £100,000 house in 2006 and bought Gold, lived in rented accomodation for 3 years. your £100,000 today would be able to buy 3 houses of same value.

if gerald celente is right and gold is going to peak at $2000 an ounce in this depression, then your £100,000 house is going to be worth a measly £15,000 - however if your into taking the risk of following probably the best trends forcaster and are lucky enough to be able to sell your £100,000 house for £80,000 and buy Gold then when it peaks your £80,000 will be more than doubled... it is a risk tho.

[mightiswrong]

If you had sold your £100,000 house in 2006 and bought Gold, lived in rented accomodation for 3 years. your £100,000 today would be able to buy 3 houses of same value.

In that case you would have increased your negative equity to -9.

[batou]

This seems like some kind of secret, you know - hush hush don't let them in on our deal. Its really hidden in plain sight.

Someone gets rich, someone else gets poor.. right?

[dlb2007]

(1/2) Gerald Celente: $2000 Gold and the Break up of the US - YouTube

[danster82]

Yeah so you have realised its got nothing to do with assets and everything do to do with currency manipulation and pricing.

It would seem they have been in the process of levelling the playing field around the world in terms of currency values all currency's are hitting a parity and no country will be richer than another if this was to continue so that when they announce a one world agenda and one world currency there will be little resistance to it, because it was obvious they could never announce a one world currency if say the UK had a stronger currency which is likley the initial reason we resisted the euro.

In my opinion the pound will collapse very soon then we will jump over to the euro and just a matter of a time till theres a world currency.

Its true we have lost a large amount of value on property in terms of currency valuation about 30-40% then a further 20% in actual value depreciation so a total of 60% but we only notice the 20% however house price drops havent even started they will start collapsing very soon because the only factor that matter with regards to property is price to wage ratio and with so many out of work and so many empty new homes the price will collapse at least 50% in real value terms from current prices I would look for 70,000 average but if theres a total economic collapse then anything can happen its hard to say.

[mightiswrong]

The thing about gold is that the IMF has more than half of all the mined gold available. There is also a lot of gold unaccounted for following ww2 so gold really is a dangerous thing to put value on (unless you hold a lot of it :rolleyes:). The other thing about gold is that it does not yield anything. Zero, zilch, nothing.

On the other hand kin's domains seem to be where the value lies:

"Holzer no longer has to do anything, and the income from the domain will grow spontaneously, because nature is generous. The value of each plant planted ten years ago has grown a hundred-fold (and sometimes a thousand-fold), once, moreover, it has reproduced itself many times without the help of man, augmenting his passive income yearly in increasing progression.......

"I cannot parade the amount of his annual income without his consent, but, believe me, it is impressive, as is the general value of his entire domain. He lives off the sale of saplings, plant seeds, fish, crawfish, mushrooms, nuts, fruits, berries, and vegetables, and now seminars as well. What's more he does not trouble himself with gathering the harvest. On the other hand, there are enough people willing to gather wholesome, ecologically pure crops, and in doing so to pay 18 to 20 times more for the products than in the usual commercial network."
http://www.krameterhof.at/en/index.php?id=rueckblick

[dlb2007]

Yeah so you have realised its got nothing to do with assets and everything do to do with currency manipulation and pricing.

It would seem they have been in the process of levelling the playing field around the world in terms of currency values all currency's are hitting a parity and no country will be richer than another if this was to continue so that when they announce a one world agenda and one world currency there will be little resistance to it, because it was obvious they could never announce a one world currency if say the UK had a stronger currency which is likley the initial reason we resisted the euro.

In my opinion the pound will collapse very soon then we will jump over to the euro and just a matter of a time till theres a world currency.

Its true we have lost a large amount of value on property in terms of currency valuation about 30-40% then a further 20% in actual value depreciation so a total of 60% but we only notice the 20% however house price drops havent even started they will start collapsing very soon because the only factor that matter with regards to property is price to wage ratio and with so many out of work and so many empty new homes the price will collapse at least 50% in real value terms from current prices I would look for 70,000 average but if theres a total economic collapse then anything can happen its hard to say.

I Agree......to a point.... the world currency already exists, national currencies are worthless, we could see the price of houses (and everything else) sky rocket if national currencies are no longer of any real value

[cleopatraxxx]

I Agree......to a point.... the world currency already exists, national currencies are worthless, we could see the price of houses (and everything else) sky rocket if national currencies are no longer of any real value

i was actually thinking about this one world currency:
African countries, UNDEVELOPED: their currency is worth NOTHING.
how will it ever work that they might have the same currency lets say as Europe???????? NEVER... on the other hand yesterdays new was that teh world bank is giving millions into the countries for tourism investment! also they talk about agriculture. this later one only makes sense because the seeds available are GM ones and can only give the plant one growth. the natural regrwoth will not be available as the GM seeds are excatly programmed for that: grow once and that's it. this makes the farmers dependent exclusively on the seed provider. guess what? VITAMINS in GM foods have been supressed too. diseases will grow higher. depopulation this way will be easier! those bastrads don't think about anything else, than benefitting themselves. They will forever keep the the poor african nations in more and more debt. and investing money into tourism is exactly to make the country DEPEND -not grow- in any other way than through the money of the white tourists!
a coleague of mine who lived in Southern Africa was frightened after an evening he had with two UN high representatives. this colleague of mine was actually a photojournalist, but mainly a cameraman. he was many times sent on UN missions to make reports on live occurences all over Africa, specially war zones.
that evening during this supper, both UN gentleman warned him of the macabre plan of the UN for Souther African Region: "you are white, get out of there while there is time, the plan is to make the country totally dependable on tourism and more into debt than ever" "DEPOPULATION IS THE ULTIMAtE GOAL", "pack your things, go back to europe with your kids, the shit is soon going to hit the fan".
he was also an openminded person and was a lot into investigating the pharmaceutical poisoning of the masses via flu medications that never work, etc and was warning everyone on the dangers of aspartame-phenilalanine it's medical denomination.
you know what? when he saw the change in racism against the white increase in Southern Africa, and more, he packed his bags and left. and the shit is now hitting the fan as warned by the two UN gentleman...
this is a true story folks...

so, back to the currency: how will it work for African countires who's money are worth nothing?! will the EILITE send a terrible depopulating virus ontp the continent? not to mention AIDS continues wiping out the race partially for many years. Although that said, MALARIA kills more than AIDS. and i wonder WHY IS IT THAT THE CLINTON FAMILY around 2005 SENT LOADS OF MONEY INTO MALARIA PRoJECTS IN MOAZMBIQUE, for example?!?! new laboratories for testing new vaccines is their EXCUSE! ultimate goal is definetely not that one.

...

[airkraft]

But something is only of value to the person that has it, or what somebody else is willing to pay for it.
If nobody has got £80,000 to buy you depreciated value house, then its not worth £80,000....its only worth what they are willing to pay.

Estate agents and surveyors only go by smilar houses sold in your area, so if a sale is agreed for a similar house, because of desperation, for a ridicularly low price, then your property value also drops.

[sukyspook]

I watched this brilliant video this morning, explaining how 'they' crashed the world....I highly recommend it:

Bill Moyers i/v Wm Black on how they did it…

THE BEST WAY TO ROB A BANK – OWN ONE!

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/04032009/watch.html

[1694]

I watched this brilliant video this morning, explaining how 'they' crashed the world....I highly recommend it:

Bill Moyers i/v Wm Black on how they did it…

THE BEST WAY TO ROB A BANK – OWN ONE!

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/04032009/watch.html

They didnt crash the market we just ran out of consumer demand for credit (money).

[batou]

They didnt crash the market we just ran out of consumer demand for credit (money). I don't know, this guy on the video makes a good case for it being their fault.


BILL MOYERS: I was taken with your candor at the conference here in New York to hear you say that this crisis we're going through, this economic and financial meltdown is driven by fraud. What's your definition of fraud?
WILLIAM K. BLACK: Fraud is deceit. And the essence of fraud is, "I create trust in you, and then I betray that trust, and get you to give me something of value." And as a result, there's no more effective acid against trust than fraud, especially fraud by top elites, and that's what we have.



....


BILL MOYERS: How did they do it? What do you mean?
WILLIAM K. BLACK: Well, the way that you do it is to make really bad loans, because they pay better. Then you grow extremely rapidly, in other words, you're a Ponzi-like scheme. And the third thing you do is we call it leverage. That just means borrowing a lot of money, and the combination creates a situation where you have guaranteed record profits in the early years. That makes you rich, through the bonuses that modern executive compensation has produced. It also makes it inevitable that there's going to be a disaster down the road.
BILL MOYERS: So you're suggesting, saying that CEOs of some of these banks and mortgage firms in order to increase their own personal income, deliberately set out to make bad loans?
WILLIAM K. BLACK: Yes.




I'm just listening to it as I type and c&p the transcript snippet I thought might whet your appetite if you didnt view it.


Nice Vid Suky!!

[danster82]

They didnt crash the market we just ran out of consumer demand for credit (money).

This is what happened, they say the banks are not lending but thats not true they are lending and you can prove this by getting yourself a loan as long as you have the right income and assets behind you like a property just as before you get a loan. But whats happend is people are tapped out they cant borrow anymore because they have already borrowed(toxic assets) or already in debt and trying to get more debt which they(individuals, business's, governments) cant so no new money can be created by fractional reserve banking.(credit crunch)

However it could be argued that those in control of this system always knew that was ultimately going to happen and so in that sense it was crashed by design and maybe they had all their plans for one world government and banking prepared and ready for this time which they knew would inevitable come...

[1694]

This is what happened, they say the banks are not lending but thats not true they are lending and you can prove this by getting yourself a loan as long as you have the right income and assets behind you like a property just as before you get a loan. But whats happend is people are tapped out they cant borrow anymore because they have already borrowed(toxic assets) or already in debt and trying to get more debt which they(individuals, business's, governments) cant so no new money can be created by fractional reserve banking.(credit crunch)

However it could be argued that those in control of this system always knew that was ultimately going to happen and so in that sense it was crashed by design and maybe they had all their plans for one world government and banking prepared and ready for this time which they knew would inevitable come...

Some one on here, I foreget who, but their posts were always clever and insightful said something like:

"Whilst I don't know if the crash has been planned, it has certainly been planned for"

[Ian2day]

The sooner you can buy a home for next to nothing the better. I think that it is totally wrong for profit to be made from the speculative housing market while some go without a home to live in. Raise the prices to the floor ASAP! If this society was instead creating wealth from the production and creative process of individuals then maybe I would think that a housing market crash was a negative thing. It will help so many people to be able to get a home for next to nothing.

[1694]

The sooner you can buy a home for next to nothing the better. I think that it is totally wrong for profit to be made from the speculative housing market while some go without a home to live in. Raise the prices to the floor ASAP! If this society was instead creating wealth from the production and creative process of individuals then maybe I would think that a housing market crash was a negative thing. It will help so many people to be able to get a home for next to nothing.

You have failed to grasp the economics of the situation.

If house prices fall to £10 each, you will be paid 0.0000001p per day.

House prices are a function of availbility of money/credit, just like wages.

[mightiswrong]

Not really. They are a function of perceived value. In real terms these boxes are worth less than zero since it will cost money to pull them down to make room for proper sized family food gardens.

[Ian2day]

Nah thats because people have been socialised to believe that property has to cost so much. Take away the belief that making profit from housing is an option and then they will fall in price with wages staying up. A national house building program would create training and work for the unemployed and also provice them with homes to live in. Or just give people some frigging land and let them get on and build a home from renewable sources. The mindset that proprty has to be expensive is a fallacy perpetuated by the global elite so that they can maintain control and force people into jobs they dislike away from their loved ones. In fact without conflict and strife the system of capitalism would fail. Democracy is not synouminous with capitalism. Anyway I have gove past that viewpoint I once held that a socialist democray is the way forward. I have reverted to the small anarchistic communities bartering produce with each other. Who knows maybe I will end up growing oranges and transporting them by a sail boat up the Florida coast one day. All the while fighting off the Pirates!

[1694]

Its about Net Present Value, market price is just the units of measure.

Property being worth less than zero....property that produces food???

A piece of land is worth the same as it ever was, unless it falls into the sea, or gets irradiated.

Wheter land/property is an assett or a liability depends on what you use it for, does it generate a return greater than it costs.

[mightiswrong]

The bricks and mortar are not where the value is. The garden is where the value is. You can see the evidence. House prices are collapsing. Ecologically sound food products are rocketing and the trend will only excellerate. People are wakeing up. Call me crazy but I would rather have an open field with a tent in the middle of it than a river view luxury apartment. ;)

[sukyspook]

I don't know, this guy on the video makes a good case for it being their fault.




I'm just listening to it as I type and c&p the transcript snippet I thought might whet your appetite if you didnt view it.


Nice Vid Suky!!

Agreed batou - it's a VERY honest assessment of just what happened imo - and 1694 - with a name like that you obviously know that that was the year the "Bank of England" was created - A PRIVATE CONCERN of the Rothschilds, followed in 1913 by the Federal Reserve.....Rothschild cohorts Rockefeller; Morgan; Warburg - you know the culprets - see Secrets of the Federal Reserve video:

http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=secrets+of+the+federal+reserve&emb=0&aq=0&oq=Secrets+of+the+Fede#

(I haven't seen this particular version - hope it's ok).

I beg to differ with you regarding the actual method of the 'crash' 1694 - they simply turned off the credit, having promoted credit and 'overborrowing' by design under Brown's watch - all as planned - along with the artificial house price 'boom'....presumably via the masonic gov/estate agent/bankster network??

The current 'crunch' could be turned around within weeks imo if the credit was just switched back on - only now, the people realise they were tricked into over-borrowing and so hopefully won't get fooled again.

And of course, as in the vid - we know who the culprets are - all we need are lawyers, solicitors, police, politicians and military to find their balls and do the will of the vast majority of humanity to recognise this criminal and ongoing coup and proceed with arrests and collection of the bankster cabals ill gotten gains and war profits, which are drenched in the blood of millions over centuries sadly.

[1694]

Agreed batou - it's a VERY honest assessment of just what happened imo - and 1694 - with a name like that you obviously know that that was the year the "Bank of England" was created - A PRIVATE CONCERN of the Rothschilds, followed in 1913 by the Federal Reserve.....Rothschild cohorts Rockefeller; Morgan; Warburg - you know the culprets - see Secrets of the Federal Reserve video:

http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=secrets+of+the+federal+reserve&emb=0&aq=0&oq=Secrets+of+the+Fede#

(I haven't seen this particular version - hope it's ok).

I beg to differ with you regarding the actual method of the 'crash' 1694 - they simply turned off the credit, having promoted credit and 'overborrowing' by design under Brown's watch - all as planned - along with the artificial house price 'boom'....presumably via the masonic gov/estate agent/bankster network??

The current 'crunch' could be turned around within weeks imo if the credit was just switched back on - only now, the people realise they were tricked into over-borrowing and so hopefully won't get fooled again.

And of course, as in the vid - we know who the culprets are - all we need are lawyers, solicitors, police, politicians and military to find their balls and do the will of the vast majority of humanity to recognise this criminal and ongoing coup and proceed with arrests and collection of the bankster cabals ill gotten gains and war profits, which are drenched in the blood of millions over centuries sadly.

Over borrowed? Please, if we stopped borrowing more and more at any time inth last 60 years the crash would have happened then. If the banks didnt lend to the poor, then the middle classes would never be able to repay the interest on their borrowing, if the banks handn't lent to the middle class the rich wuoldnt be able to repay their borrowing, and so if we dont have borrowing we live in the now, back to the middle ages, an honest sustainable existence....but dont blame the banks for lending to poor families in the US for you having to take a 10% drop in living standard.


Credit is "On" there just isnt enough new borrowers borrowing more new money. The banks that arent lending arent lending because they can't borrow more from eachother, or depositers (who are actually lenders) to finance more lending. The whole system is just a web of borrowing form the future, and once the future is empty it implodes.

The money could never be repaid. Im afriad you dont understand our monetary system very well.

[sukyspook]

Over borrowed? Please, if we stopped borrowing more and more at any time inth last 60 years the crash would have happened then. If the banks didnt lend to the poor, then the middle classes would never be able to repay the interest on their borrowing, if the banks handn't lent to the middle class the rich wuoldnt be able to repay their borrowing, and so if we dont have borrowing we live in the now, back to the middle ages, an honest sustainable existence....but dont blame the banks for lending to poor families in the US for you having to take a 10% drop in living standard.


Credit is "On" there just isnt enough new borrowers borrowing more new money. The banks that arent lending arent lending because they can't borrow more from eachother, or depositers (who are actually lenders) to finance more lending. The whole system is just a web of borrowing form the future, and once the future is empty it implodes.

The money could never be repaid. Im afriad you dont understand our monetary system very well.

No offence 1694 - are you a freemason?

[1694]

No offence 1694 - are you a freemason?

No.

(Not a freemason, jew, reptilian or alien hybrid.)

[curtaincat]

the money being borrowed isnt real, but they have to pay back in real money, anyone can see that, or should know by now.

[1694]

the money being borrowed isnt real, but they have to pay back in real money, anyone can see that, or should know by now.

All money (as good as) was borrowed into existence. All you do is pack back your borrowed money with someone eleses borrowed money (which you had to earn by providing a good or service to the other borrower.)

Oh and interest has to be repaid on all the money too.

[curtaincat]

thats where u went wrong
all money ( as good as)


they lend money out of thin air

it is not 'as good as'
then they want it back in real money, that is the difference.

It is pretty simple, as you know.

are you pretending to be from "the city" ?

I dont believe you

[1694]

thats where u went wrong
all money ( as good as)


they lend money out of thin air

it is not 'as good as'
then they want it back in real money, that is the difference.

It is pretty simple, as you know.

are you pretending to be from "the city" ?

I dont believe you

"As good as" as in 99.999999% of todays money is credit created from nothing.

There is however a 0.000001% capstone of that invterted pyramid that was oringal money, gold and silver coins, it was just to be techincally accurate, but makes no real difference.

What they want back isnt real money either, it is just money you gathered from someone else, that was also borrowed into existence in the same manner.

[curtaincat]

The people that have to pay bills etc, still have to pay them, dont they? Otherwise they will have their electric cut off or whatever.
However, whoever lent them 'fake money' in the first place , dont care because they will get it back in real 'fake money'.

Sure, it is all fake, but the people still have to pay it back. You know that, we all know that.

The people have to work their guts out to pay back the fake money.

If they dont , they are stuffed.

That is the system.

Why do you have an avatar of "the city" , that is really evil, ....

Are you trying to show how uncaring you are, or are you showing how evil the city is?

Everyone knows that the system of money is completely wrong.

It hurts the whole world.

Do you even care about that?

Maybe you need a hug?

[sukyspook]

"As good as" as in 99.999999% of todays money is credit created from nothing.

There is however a 0.000001% capstone of that invterted pyramid that was oringal money, gold and silver coins, it was just to be techincally accurate, but makes no real difference.

What they want back isnt real money either, it is just money you gathered from someone else, that was also borrowed into existence in the same manner.

Ahhhhh, the all important 'capstone'....

However 'they' have/are doing it 1694 - 'they' are doing it.....as planned.

This is a global coup for control of the entire planet and all the strawmen 'persons' upon it.

[1694]

The people that have to pay bills etc, still have to pay them, dont they? Otherwise they will have their electric cut off or whatever.
However, whoever lent them 'fake money' in the first place , dont care because they will get it back in real 'fake money'.

Sure, it is all fake, but the people still have to pay it back. You know that, we all know that.

The people have to work their guts out to pay back the fake money.

If they dont , they are stuffed.

That is the system.

Why do you have an avatar of "the city" , that is really evil, ....

Are you trying to show how uncaring you are, or are you showing how evil the city is?

Everyone knows that the system of money is completely wrong.

It hurts the whole world.

Do you even care about that?

Maybe you need a hug?

Im good for hugs.

The fact is we have legal tender laws, that deem that only the bill collectorts will take a specific token, a legal tender token that can only exist when a bank creates it on the demand of a borrower.

It doesnt matter how many fields you till, fish you catch, minerals you mine or timber you chop, to pay your taxes, and any other bills we have we need good old "legal tender" which has to be borroed and repaid plus interest.

However it was only because our forefathers started demanding credit. Once they started on that band wagon it was unstoppable without the crash that sucked back all that was borrowed.

If you borrow from the future, what are you going to live on when you get to the future? Only the futre of that monent, etc etc.

Banks haven't stoped lendig by design, but by default. Its just how the ride ends, everyone enjoys it till it stops, and you have to get off.

[1694]

Ahhhhh, the all important 'capstone'....

However 'they' have/are doing it 1694 - 'they' are doing it.....as planned.

This is a global coup for control of the entire planet and all the strawmen 'persons' upon it.

Sorry dude, that is drivel.

Destrution wasnt planned, the top benefits from the produce of the bottom, crushing the bottom is only done when the bottom is no longer producing for the top. That is not to say it hasnt been planned for, those at the top knew that the pymramid scheme would end, although they ry to keep it running as pyramid schemes only pay the originators when they are running, a collapse doesnt help anyone.

The strawman BS is exactly that a strawman, the idea that you arent a person, but you have a person is correct, but the resulting arguments are strawmen in themselves.

Humans under the age of 16 weeks of conception are not persons, after 16 weeks they are.

[curtaincat]

It is not by default

that is just their excuse

However, whatever you think will become real.

I believe i must go to bed now.

Catch up tomorrow if I even remember what forum I am on.

Cheers me dears

and hugs to the crazy city and hope the city will ever get better. Curses to the romans, haha!

Bless Bodiciea

lol , I cant spell

[sukyspook]

Sorry dude, that is drivel.

Destrution wasnt planned, the top benefits from the produce of the bottom, crushing the bottom is only done when the bottom is no longer producing for the top. That is not to say it hasnt been planned for, those at the top knew that the pymramid scheme would end, although they ry to keep it running as pyramid schemes only pay the originators when they are running, a collapse doesnt help anyone.

The strawman BS is exactly that a strawman, the idea that you arent a person, but you have a person is correct, but the resulting arguments are strawmen in themselves.

Humans under the age of 16 weeks of conception are not persons, after 16 weeks they are.

Our children have a 'person' when we are tricked into handing them over to 'the state' when we register them for a birth certificate.....as I understand it....

We'll have to agree to disagree in that I believe this whole scam was, indeed planned and is leading to a one world, fascist global dictatorship - if we allow it that is....

[lizzy]

Our children have a 'person' when we are tricked into handing them over to 'the state' when we register them for a birth certificate.....as I understand it....

We'll have to agree to disagree in that I believe this whole scam was, indeed planned and is leading to a one world, fascist global dictatorship - if we allow it that is....

Your right suky.....

this was a good piece that says it all today

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=60482

[gilly]

great that figures so i am actually paying my 110000 mort-gauge for the next 30 yrs for my 40000 house

Does that 110,000 figure include x yrs @ y % interest on top? The profits they make are astronomical when you get your calculator out

[sukyspook]

Sorry dude, that is drivel.

Destrution wasnt planned, the top benefits from the produce of the bottom, crushing the bottom is only done when the bottom is no longer producing for the top. That is not to say it hasnt been planned for, those at the top knew that the pymramid scheme would end, although they ry to keep it running as pyramid schemes only pay the originators when they are running, a collapse doesnt help anyone.

The strawman BS is exactly that a strawman, the idea that you arent a person, but you have a person is correct, but the resulting arguments are strawmen in themselves.

Humans under the age of 16 weeks of conception are not persons, after 16 weeks they are.

In black and white from The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion:

WE CAUSE DEPRESSIONS

snip

20. Economic crises have been produced by us for the GOYIM by no other means than the withdrawal of money from circulation. Huge capitals have stagnated, withdrawing money from States, which were constantly obliged to apply to those same stagnant capitals for loans. These loans burdened the finances of the State with the payment of interest and made them the bond slaves of these capitals .... The concentration of industry in the hands of capitalists out of the hands of small masters has drained away all the juices of the peoples and with them also the States .... (Now we know the purpose of the Federal Reserve Bank Corporation!!)

21. The present issue of money in general does not correspond with the requirements per head, and cannot therefore satisfy all the needs of the workers. The issue of money ought to correspond with the growth of population and thereby children also must absolutely be reckoned as consumers of currency from the day of their birth. The revision of issue is a material question for the whole world.

snip

rest at:

http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/przion6.htm#PROTOCOL%20No.%2020

[the nine]

Im good for hugs.

The fact is we have legal tender laws, that deem that only the bill collectorts will take a specific token, a legal tender token that can only exist when a bank creates it on the demand of a borrower.

It doesnt matter how many fields you till, fish you catch, minerals you mine or timber you chop, to pay your taxes, and any other bills we have we need good old "legal tender" which has to be borroed and repaid plus interest.

However it was only because our forefathers started demanding credit. Once they started on that band wagon it was unstoppable without the crash that sucked back all that was borrowed.

If you borrow from the future, what are you going to live on when you get to the future? Only the futre of that monent, etc etc.

Banks haven't stoped lendig by design, but by default. Its just how the ride ends, everyone enjoys it till it stops, and you have to get off.

unless governments started printing their own, debt free money, which would counter the production of the debt money.
this revenue could be used to pay taxes and goods and services, and should not be for investment or saving in banks..

[1694]

Our children have a 'person' when we are tricked into handing them over to 'the state' when we register them for a birth certificate.....as I understand it....

We'll have to agree to disagree in that I believe this whole scam was, indeed planned and is leading to a one world, fascist global dictatorship - if we allow it that is....

Look it up in the law books.

(UK Law) Human becomes a person at 16 weeks form conception, before 16 weeks they are not a person, they are the property of their mother. That is why abortion is abortion and not murder (in legal terms the moraliity is a different matter).

So up to 16 weeks non person, no legal rights (not even common law murder protection), property of the mother. After 16 weeks, have their own legal personality, are a person, seperate from the mother, protected by common law, statute, whatever else.

Birthcertificate is nothing to do with your legal personality. Whether (and if so how) it is used as a security so that the government can borrow today to repay later iwth your future tax revenue is something I am still investigating.

[1694]

unless governments started printing their own, debt free money, which would counter the production of the debt money.
this revenue could be used to pay taxes and goods and services, and should not be for investment or saving in banks..

Tally sticks :D

Many have tried, many have died. :(

[sukyspook]

Look it up in the law books.

(UK Law) Human becomes a person at 16 weeks form conception, before 16 weeks they are not a person, they are the property of their mother. That is why abortion is abortion and not murder (in legal terms the moraliity is a different matter).

So up to 16 weeks non person, no legal rights (not even common law murder protection), property of the mother. After 16 weeks, have their own legal personality, are a person, seperate from the mother, protected by common law, statute, whatever else.

Birthcertificate is nothing to do with your legal personality. Whether (and if so how) it is used as a security so that the government can borrow today to repay later iwth your future tax revenue is something I am still investigating.

Don't understand your arguments and quite frankly, I'm not up for fighting amongst ourselves - we face a common enemy which loves us to waste our time bickering.

A foetus is a foetus, once delivered, the birth cert registers the person as you rightly say which becomes 'chattel' property for raising dosh for our despotic and totally undemocratic "government" aka City lackies.

Woteva from there. "So long and thanks for all the fish" as the saying goes - I'm in need of some sleep as sleuthing until 3.30 this morning.

All the best

Suke

[the nine]

Tally sticks :D

Many have tried, many have died. :(

yeah, Lincoln, Kennedy...:(

[batou]

I think it was on this site I read this...
for example SUKYSPOOK = property, and Sukyspook = just yourself, a human being. Thats why they make you write in capital letters on forms etc.

I don't know, maybe I'm wrong.

[the nine]

Look it up in the law books.

(UK Law) Human becomes a person at 16 weeks form conception, before 16 weeks they are not a person, they are the property of their mother. That is why abortion is abortion and not murder (in legal terms the moraliity is a different matter).



are you sure about this 1694?

so if a mother murders her baby at 12 weeks, then no crime has been committed?

[1694]

are you sure about this 1694?

so if a mother murders her baby at 12 weeks, then no crime has been committed?

16 weeks after conception not birth dude.

Abortion laws hinge on when a human foetus becomes a person, before that date its abortion, legal, after that date its murder, illegal. (without cloudy side issues)

[the nine]

16 weeks after conception not birth dude.

Abortion laws hinge on when a human foetus becomes a person, before that date its abortion, legal, after that date its murder, illegal. (without cloudy side issues)

sorry, my bad, I miss read your post:o

on a side note, dont want to hijack the thread though..
a fetus develops the perineal gland at about day 49, this is also the same time the baby develops its sex.. this coincides with the old Buddhist teaching that that the soul enters the body on day 49.. this would suggest that termination is murder after day 49..just thought I would post this..

back to topic..