Shotgun ownership in the UK

[waylander]

How many people own a shotgun.

Its a top tool for providing cheep free range food.

Pigeon meat is delicious and free range. Their is also Rabbit, Hare, Pheasant and Duck to name a few.

Shotgun ownership in the UK is surprisingly simple:)

Waylander:cool:

[alzee]

I'm about to apply for my license, although I'm thinking of going for the Firearms license instead so I can own a rifle or two, too. The only downside with that of course as that I have to stay a member of a rifle club. Either that or show I have a good reason for keeping one, i.e.: shooting vermin as a farmer, pest control.

I've been looking at second hand shotguns and theyre suprisingly cheap :)

[waylander]

I'm about to apply for my license, although I'm thinking of going for the Firearms license instead so I can own a rifle or two, too. The only downside with that of course as that I have to stay a member of a rifle club. Either that or show I have a good reason for keeping one, i.e.: shooting vermin as a farmer, pest control.

I've been looking at second hand shotguns and theyre suprisingly cheap :)

I have fac too.

For shotgun you don't need permission or club membership;)

Shotguns are very cheep, I've seen single barrelled shotguns for as little as £15:eek:

Waylander:cool:

[alzee]

any tips for filling out the form? I don't want to go to all the expense then get refused!

[waylander]

any tips for filling out the form? I don't want to go to all the expense then get refused!

If you have no criminal record or history of mental illness you cannot be refused, for shotgun.

For FAC you have to show good reason, as you have already stated.

Waylander:cool:

[rydeon]

Don't you need to own land for a Shotgun?

For a rifle you need to be in a club. But also I think you have to leave the weapon in the clubs armoury.

So folk living in cities and towns, unless they have a large property are forbidden, right?

Whats the black and white of owning one?

[duckandcover]

Don't you need to own land for a Shotgun?

For a rifle you need to be in a club. But also I think you have to leave the weapon in the clubs armoury.

So folk living in cities and towns, unless they have a large property are forbidden, right?

Whats the black and white of owning one?

You dont need to own land to get a shotgun, just somewhere to use it , clay pigeon club or helping a farmer with pest control, and a secure cabinet. Rifles also can be kept at home but the law is alot stricter as to where they will be used and storage. Unless you have a `history` you cant be refused for a shotgun certificate :)
(ps just to clarify im refering to uk law)

[rydeon]

Well said!

Good to hear that is the case. :)

[the itinerant shrubber]

Im starting a deer stalking course in October and I'll be working towards an open firearms licence which means I can shoot anywhere with permision although you need to show experience which is where the course comes in.
I already have permision on land to do pretty much as I please for control of rabbits and I reckon he'll be only too pleased to have the Muntjac controled too eventually so I wont need to be a member of a club.
You're going to have a hard time getting a full firearms licence living in the city and you cant have any history of mental illness,depression etc.

[tom bombadil]

Im starting a deer stalking course in October

Good luck with that. I wish you the best.

A guy at my place of employ recently became a deer stalker. He did a ton of reading so I dont envy the 'workload' but I suppose that if you enjoy doing it then it will be a breaze :)

He is now selling the 'surplus' stuff to us guys LOL. I envy you both ;)




Tom.

[marpat]

I have heard it is far easier to get a shotgun license than a firearms license, although I thought they would be the same thing.

I just use an air rifle myself. The only hard part is getting close, within 30m, but that is where the skill, or patience to hide, comes in. Less lead to pick out of them too.

[rydeon]

Im starting a deer stalking course in October and I'll be working towards an open firearms licence which means I can shoot anywhere with permision although you need to show experience which is where the course comes in.
I already have permision on land to do pretty much as I please for control of rabbits and I reckon he'll be only too pleased to have the Muntjac controled too eventually so I wont need to be a member of a club.
You're going to have a hard time getting a full firearms licence living in the city and you cant have any history of mental illness,depression etc.


Interesting, is this actually in the UK that you're doing the course and applying for it?

[waylander]

Don't you need to own land for a Shotgun?

No land required !

For a rifle you need to be in a club. But also I think you have to leave the weapon in the clubs armoury. No you don't. You keep it at home. In an approved Gun Cabinet.

So folk living in cities and towns, unless they have a large property are forbidden, right?Not at all, most cities have target clubs.

Whats the black and white of owning one?

You dont need to own land to get a shotgun, just somewhere to use it. Not correct. You do not have to show good reason as you do with a firearm.

Interesting, is this actually in the UK that you're doing the course and applying for it?

Their are two levels of training for Deer stalking DMQ1 & DMQ2.

DMQ 1 is more about species recognition, safe practice and firearms handling, including a shooting test.

DMQ2 is more about meat handling and food hygene, so you can put you venison into the food chain.

Firearms legislation in ths country requires that to hold a Rifle you demonstrate good reason to the police. This includes, target shooting, vermin control on land (rabbits etc) and or Deer stalking. Without showing good reason the police will refuse you a lisence.

Shotguns are different, you are entitled to own a shotgun, unless the police can show good reason for you not to. Such as a violent criminal past or mentally unstable.

Waylander:cool:

[the itinerant shrubber]

Interesting, is this actually in the UK that you're doing the course and applying for it?

http://www.bds.org.uk/deer_stalking_certificate_level_1.html

[jonas parker]

I'm curious about ammunition. Can you all buy 00 buckshot or are you limited to bird loads?

[waylander]

I'm curious about ammunition. Can you all buy 00 buckshot or are you limited to bird loads?

Hi Jonas :)

With a shotgun certificate we can up to SG (8.4mm) not sure if that is same as you Buckshot ??

However we are not allowed to use shotgun on deer,(except on an injured deer) so really the largest shot I use is AAA (5.2mm) for fox control.
I prefer to use my centerfire rifles (I have a Cooper Model 21 & Remmy 700:cool:)

We can still use lead shot, for game shooting, except wildfowling which has to be lead free.

With a firearms certificate (not a shotgun certificate) if you have a condition added you can but solid slug for shotgun.

We can have semi auto & pump action shotguns restricted to a 3 shot capacity, as well as OU and SBS shotguns, on a shotgun certificate.

Waylander:cool:

[the itinerant shrubber]

Hi Jonas :)

With a shotgun certificate we can up to SG (8.4mm) not sure if that is same as you Buckshot ??

However we are not allowed to use shotgun on deer,(except on an injured deer) so really the largest shot I use is AAA (5.2mm) for fox control.
I prefer to use my centerfire rifles (I have a Cooper Model 21 & Remmy 700:cool:)

We can still use lead shot, for game shooting, except wildfowling which has to be lead free.

With a firearms certificate (not a shotgun certificate) if you have a condition added you can but solid slug for shotgun.

We can have semi auto & pump action shotguns restricted to a 3 shot capacity, as well as OU and SBS shotguns, on a shotgun certificate.

Waylander:cool:

Dont kill the foxes man! Get your man to buy some proper fencing and let the fox take care of the rabbits.

[waylander]

Dont kill the foxes man! Get your man to buy some proper fencing and let the fox take care of the rabbits.

I eat the Rabbits, My dogs eat the Rabbits & my ferrets eat the Rabbits:cool:

Foxy tends to enjoy eating the lambs tongues, so farmers say shoot them.

Waylander:cool:

[jonas parker]

You all might look into "reloading" some shells with heavier shot (ball bearings maybe?) in case you need some heavier stopping power. There should be some reloading sites on the web for the "how to" information. I'm sorry I can't give any detailed info here, but my next door neighbor is the reloader, I'm just the local medic!

[waylander]

You all might look into "reloading" some shells with heavier shot (ball bearings maybe?) in case you need some heavier stopping power. There should be some reloading sites on the web for the "how to" information. I'm sorry I can't give any detailed info here, but my next door neighbor is the reloader, I'm just the local medic!

I do reload for my Centrefire.:) 6mmPPC & .243

But its actually deerer to reload shotgun cartridges than buy factory, in the UK:(

Waylander:cool:

[skunksmash]

can i buy a shotgun from the states if i hold a ''shotgun certificate''..??






:)SK

[waylander]

can i buy a shotgun from the states if i hold a ''shotgun certificate''..??






:)SK

I doubt a US gunshop would recognise the UK certificate:confused:

Waylander:cool:

[skunksmash]

I doubt a US gunshop would recognise the UK certificate:confused:

Waylander:cool:

ok......im about to apply, i live right out in the Norfolk countryside & know a few farm owners.....

where will be the best place to find the shotgun & ammunition over here..??

cheers......



:)SK

[waylander]

where will be the best place to find the shotgun & ammunition over here..??

cheers......



:)SK

In a Gunshop.

Waylander:cool:

[alzee]

can i buy a shotgun from the states if i hold a ''shotgun certificate''..??






:)SK

I don't think you can buy a gun in the US unless you're a citizen, however, when I looked into this a while back I found that I could get a friend to buy one for me. That leaves you with a gun that you can't import; for this you need a dealer in the UK who'll charge a handling fee to import it for you.

You'll find a list of dealers here (http://www.rfdnetwork.co.uk/).

[hunter77]

ok......im about to apply, i live right out in the Norfolk countryside & know a few farm owners.....

where will be the best place to find the shotgun & ammunition over here..??

cheers......



:)SK

gun shops are good, but you can get some cracking deals at the big game fairs:)

[hunter77]

I don't think you can buy a gun in the US unless you're a citizen, however, when I looked into this a while back I found that I could get a friend to buy one for me. That leaves you with a gun that you can't import; for this you need a dealer in the UK who'll charge a handling fee to import it for you.

You'll find a list of dealers here (http://www.rfdnetwork.co.uk/).

probably cost more and you are limited to the type, i.e the maximun rounds allowed in a uk shotgun is three.:)

[alzee]

probably cost more and you are limited to the type, i.e the maximun rounds allowed in a uk shotgun is three.:)

Yup, 3 shots is the max. I'm sure the shotguns I was looking at were cheaper over there though. When new of course.

[skunksmash]

cheers, hunter77 & alzee..


i found a few places over here.... ''the gun cabinet'' ''Avalon guns'', there's probably loads dotted about where i live, but its not something ive ever kept my eye out for...

whats the best caliber in terms of available ammo..??, i don't want to use any of that ''wad'' crap ..:p




:)SK

[hunter77]

Yup, 3 shots is the max. I'm sure the shotguns I was looking at were cheaper over there though. When new of course.

yep they will be cheaper, but i imagine( not totally 100% sure about this) buy the time the duty and all the other bollocks has been put on it will cost more:) you can buy really good second hand gunsat gundealers for decent money . most people trade in when they upgrade, i picked up a berrata 3 shot semi auto for 250 quid:)

[alzee]

yep they will be cheaper, but i imagine( not totally 100% sure about this) buy the time the duty and all the other bollocks has been put on it will cost more:) you can buy really good second hand gunsat gundealers for decent money . most people trade in when they upgrade, i picked up a berrata 3 shot semi auto for 250 quid:)

I didnt dig into it enough to really find out, to be honest. After more digging in the UK I found websites offering buttloads of cheap second-hand shotguns.

Where'd you pick up the beretta?

[waylander]

whats the best caliber in terms of available ammo..??, i don't want to use any of that ''wad'' crap ..:p

12g is most common,, not too sure what you mean by wad crap:confused:

most people trade in when they upgrade, i picked up a berrata 3 shot semi auto for 250 quid:)

301 or 303 semi Both nice guns :) Good build quality.

Waylander:cool:

[hunter77]

cheers, hunter77 & alzee..


i found a few places over here.... ''the gun cabinet'' ''Avalon guns'', there's probably loads dotted about where i live, but its not something ive ever kept my eye out for...

whats the best caliber in terms of available ammo..??, i don't want to use any of that ''wad'' crap ..:p




:)SK

depends what you want to shoot, for practice clay shooting alot of places demand you use felt wads.
if you are shooting over water( for ducks ,fowl ect) it is best to use steel shot cartridges.
as for the size and pattern it depends on what you aim to shoot. a good gun shop will help you with this or will have an idea what your gun likes:)

[hunter77]

12g is most common,, not too sure what you mean by wad crap:confused:



301 or 303 semi Both nice guns :) Good build quality.

Waylander:cool:

i have a303:cool::D

[waylander]

i have a303:cool::D

Very good tool, the new hatsan/escort shotguns are a carbon copy, but not engineered to the same degree.I had a 301 a couple of years ago.

Presently using a wesley richards sbs made in the 1930's. Can only use 2.5" cartridges,but it is nice to shoot.

Next aquistion will be a pump action for wildfowling, if I get permission of "the boss":)

Waylander:cool:

[hunter77]

I didnt dig into it enough to really find out, to be honest. After more digging in the UK I found websites offering buttloads of cheap second-hand shotguns.

Where'd you pick up the beretta?

weston park game fair,nr wolerhampton.
but if you join a local gun club or know someone who shoots they can usually put you in touch with someone who's selling one( blokes with guns usually upgrade the alot ,think it makes them shoot better):D

clay shoot are also a good place, to practice your skills any try out other peoples guns to see what fits you well. if i can help you any way pm me, happy to help a fellow shooter ,anytime:)

[hunter77]

Very good tool, the new hatsan/escort shotguns are a carbon copy, but not engineered to the same degree.I had a 301 a couple of years ago.

Presently using a wesley richards sbs made in the 1930's. Can only use 2.5" cartridges,but it is nice to shoot.

Next aquistion will be a pump action for wildfowling, if I get permission of "the boss":)

Waylander:cool:

my boss is pretty cool:D, she wont eat farmed meat anymore or netted fish so i get plenty of time to partake in my hobbies( fuck did i say hobies i meant feeding the family):D

[jojo]

my boss is pretty cool:D, she wont eat farmed meat anymore or netted fish so i get plenty of time to partake in my hobbies( fuck did i say hobies i meant feeding the family):D

Ewe knows it! :cool:

[the itinerant shrubber]

I eat the Rabbits, My dogs eat the Rabbits & my ferrets eat the Rabbits:cool:

Foxy tends to enjoy eating the lambs tongues, so farmers say shoot them.

Waylander:cool:

What dogs do you have? I'm interested in getting a lurcher to go with my psychotic Parsons.

Do you pack the ferreting in during the summer? I've gradually gone from ferreter to the sole rabbit controller on my permission and I'm wondering about the pros and cons of summer ferreting. Im thinking trying an old method of using natural twine as a muzzle so if they get lost or whatever,the muzzle will quicly degrade and the ferret can feed itself. Got any advice?
I'm starting on a patch that is near houses and footpaths so I've got to be careful about lamping and snaring. I've got deer-stop snares so the local tabby wont get cought but as soon as the "locals" find out (people moved from the towns and cities) its likely they'll end up sabotaged.
The farmer I work for was reported to the police the other week for riding a quad bike on his own land. Those are the kind of arsholes we have to put up with now the countryside has been invaded by the middle classes.:mad:

[waylander]

What dogs do you have? I'm interested in getting a lurcher to go with my psychotic Parsons.
GSD and GSD/Golden Retriever cross. I do take the cross with when I'm out, he a clever mutt ;)

Do you pack the ferreting in during the summer?
I don't actually ferret with my ferret, its a pet:o A shooting buddy was gonna put it down as it was old, so I took it as a pet 8 months ago.
The farmer I work for was reported to the police the other week for riding a quad bike on his own land. Those are the kind of arsholes we have to put up with now the countryside has been invaded by the middle classes.:mad:
Yep I know what your up against. One of my farmers had a complaint against him because his dairy farm smelt of cow poo:eek:

Waylander:cool:

[jonas parker]

can i buy a shotgun from the states if i hold a ''shotgun certificate''..??
:)SK

Actually, in a private person-to-person sale, you can legally buy any firearm that is legal to be sold in the US - rifle (even a semi-automatic .30 cal with a sniper scope and a 50 round magazine), pistol, and shotgun, with or without a "shotgun certificate", birth certificate, passport, driver's license, or a note from your mother. Your problem will be in getting the firearm back into the UK. :p

[rydeon]

I don't think you can buy a gun in the US unless you're a citizen, however, when I looked into this a while back I found that I could get a friend to buy one for me. That leaves you with a gun that you can't import; for this you need a dealer in the UK who'll charge a handling fee to import it for you.

You'll find a list of dealers here (http://www.rfdnetwork.co.uk/).

You can buy a gun in the US as a Brit, but it depends on what state you are in and what visa you have.

http://www.vrolyk.org/guns/alien-laws.html

:)

[rydeon]

weston park game fair,nr wolerhampton.


If you're being serious / telling the truth you've got some balls admitting to owning a firearm, a burst firing one at that!
Did you get it prior to the Dunblaine killings?

[hunter77]

If you're being serious / telling the truth you've got some balls admitting to owning a firearm, a burst firing one at that!
Did you get it prior to the Dunblaine killings?

its a berretta 303, completely legal, you are aloud up to a 3 shot shotgun on a normal uk license. it is not a hand gun( which are banned but can be aquired under special licenses.)
the 303 is a single barreld twelve boar that is semi auto as a say completey legal under the uk firearms act. iam shore somene who also knows what theyre on about will back me up on this.

[waylander]

its a berretta 303, completely legal, you are aloud up to a 3 shot shotgun on a normal uk license. it is not a hand gun( which are banned but can be aquired under special licenses.)
the 303 is a single barreld twelve boar that is semi auto as a say completey legal under the uk firearms act. iam shore somene who also knows what theyre on about will back me up on this.

100% correct :)

Waylander:cool:

[rydeon]

its a berretta 303, completely legal, you are aloud up to a 3 shot shotgun on a normal uk license. it is not a hand gun( which are banned but can be aquired under special licenses.)
the 303 is a single barreld twelve boar that is semi auto as a say completey legal under the uk firearms act. iam shore somene who also knows what theyre on about will back me up on this.

Cool, when you said berretta I thought you meant the handgun made famous in the Die Hard movies :)

[hunter77]

Cool, when you said berretta I thought you meant the handgun made famous in the Die Hard movies :)

that woul be cool;):)

[hunter77]

Actually, in a private person-to-person sale, you can legally buy any firearm that is legal to be sold in the US - rifle (even a semi-automatic .30 cal with a sniper scope and a 50 round magazine), pistol, and shotgun, with or without a "shotgun certificate", birth certificate, passport, driver's license, or a note from your mother. Your problem will be in getting the firearm back into the UK. :p

you guys got it good:)

[googly]

Hmm...

Shotguns in the woods, now that takes me back when it was legal to buy cartridges over the counter and borrow your mates gun. Then blast your mates hat to bits in the woods, it was bloody loud and fun! How the UK has changed, especially shotgun ownership expense!

[boots]

its a berretta 303, completely legal, you are aloud up to a 3 shot shotgun on a normal uk license. it is not a hand gun( which are banned but can be aquired under special licenses.)
the 303 is a single barreld twelve boar that is semi auto as a say completey legal under the uk firearms act. iam shore somene who also knows what theyre on about will back me up on this.


You guy's have got it good in the UK. Here in Australia you can't own a semi auto, anything or a high powered rifle without a special permit. Plus you have to have a good reason to own a gun. Like have 100 acres:rolleyes: or be part of a gun club.

Ever since the Port Arther massacre ( which was staged by special Op's) they have cracked down big time.

[jonas parker]

From what I understand from my Aussie friends, a whole bunch of high-powered bolt-action rifles with scopes and ammo are cached "off the books".

[boots]

From what I understand from my Aussie friends, a whole bunch of high-powered bolt-action rifles with scopes and ammo are cached "off the books".

Yep, There is still the black market.;)

[thelyran]

From what I understand from my Aussie friends, a whole bunch of high-powered bolt-action rifles with scopes and ammo are cached "off the books".

...and a whole lot more than that,M-16s,magnum revolvers,explosives...
you'd be surprised,where they are,like this 1963 Pontiac,grass growing around it,hiding a small arms cache,that rivals a dozen police precincts...

...what disgusts me,is we gave them up,with very little uproar,over a false flag operation,The Port Arthur Massacre...back in the 80's,I could buy SKS's
from K-Mart,as I kept alot of air-rifles back then.

[ownoiz]

Yep there are guns everywhere in Oz, the banning of guns from law abiding citizens just made sure those who are willing to break the laws have them.

Black market as boots said.

Only 10% of shipping containers are x-rayed or inspected.

Then you hav private boats and yachts cruising into places like sydney harbour, some of them come and go from overseas unnoticed.

Then you have the backyard lathe operations, making replicas of guns from scratch by copying other guns.

I remember one in particular not far from where i was living, was turning out glock replica handguns with imported parts + lathe work to make the rest, i could get one for 2K in a carry case with ammo, too many heard about that one and was shut down but there are plenty more.

Some of the people i have seen with handguns are nuts, yet they still have them.

I imagine things will be even more difficult to police in the UK given the geography and close proximity to Europe and USA east coast.
.
__________________
"Mall people they come and go, small people they just dont know" - Anna Faris

[thelyran]

Yep there are guns everywhere in Oz, the banning of guns from law abiding citizens just made sure those who are willing to break the laws have them.

Black market as boots said.

Only 10% of shipping containers are x-rayed or inspected.

Then you hav private boats and yachts cruising into places like sydney harbour, some of them come and go from overseas unnoticed.

Then you have the backyard lathe operations, making replicas of guns from scratch by copying other guns.

I remember one in particular not far from where i was living, was turning out glock replica handguns with imported parts + lathe work to make the rest, i could get one for 2K in a carry case with ammo, too many heard about that one and was shut down but there are plenty more.

Some of the people i have seen with handguns are nuts, yet they still have them.

I imagine things will be even more difficult to police in the UK given the geography and close proximity to Europe and USA east coast.
.
__________________
"Mall people they come and go, small people they just dont know" - Anna Faris

...unfortunately,they're a necesary evil Ownoiz,I don't like rednecks owning them,but an evil corrupt government,or dictatorship is much worse.

[ownoiz]

I know...i have two here...shotgun and rifle...legally...something about what boots said, so im allowed :)

But only allowed 2 shot and bolt action.

I say its for hunting, but i dont shoot animals, its for the protection...

I think its 5 years in the can in Mike Rann land for having a semi auto piece...so i opt out for now...they are looking for an excuse and i am not unknown to them as person of interest for the company i have kept in the past...but i have no record whatsoever :p other than speeding fines...
im sure they would throw max sentence at me even for first offence as they have at others i know if i gave them half a chance...

They will let you have a gun easier if you have land and tell them you need to shoot vermin and kangaroos...so stupid...like landholders cant go nuts like Martin Bryant too...ah but there was no Martin Bryant...at least one that can shoot straight like a trained assasin...so TPTB arent afraid one bit and let a few of us have some...but not enough to overthrow a crooked government incase people wake up, or invading forces, in urban guerrilla warfare...thats why they disarm as as im sure you know...just repeating incase new readers dont and they can make up their own mind...

Bikies, another group that know...and arm themselves...TPTB are busy nationwide attempting to take care of that right now...
.
__________________
"Mall people they come and go, small people they just dont know" - Anna Faris

[boots]

If we can get into the freeman technology and make a standing with the criminal governments, then owning a gun becomes a god given right. FFS no one what's to go around shooting people because you have a grip.

Anyway they can't stop us in the end.

[thelyran]

I know...i have two here...shotgun and rifle...legally...something about what boots said, so im allowed :)

But only allowed 2 shot and bolt action.

I say its for hunting, but i dont shoot animals, its for the protection...

I think its 5 years in the can in Mike Rann land for having a semi auto piece...so i opt out for now...they are looking for an excuse and i am not unknown to them as person of interest for the company i have kept in the past...but i have no record whatsoever :p other than speeding fines...
im sure they would throw max sentence at me even for first offence as they have at others i know if i gave them half a chance...

They will let you have a gun easier if you have land and tell them you need to shoot vermin and kangaroos...so stupid...like landholders cant go nuts like Martin Bryant too...ah but there was no Martin Bryant...at least one that can shoot straight like a trained assasin...so TPTB arent afraid one bit and let a few of us have some...but not enough to overthrow a crooked government incase people wake up, or invading forces, in urban guerrilla warfare...thats why they disarm as as im sure you know...just repeating incase new readers dont and they can make up their own mind...

Bikies, another group that know...and arm themselves...TPTB are busy nationwide attempting to take care of that right now...
.
__________________
"Mall people they come and go, small people they just dont know" - Anna Faris

No,I'm glad you repeated the info,but I know there was no accident,Dunblane
,Port Arthur and Colombine all happened relatively close.
Same in any coming dictatorship,dis-arm the population,even slaves in Ancient Rome could'nt have knives,obvious,as they out numbered everyone 50 to one.
Boots,is way up on the Freeman stuff,I have no idea,I kind of disregard the law anyway,but don't hurt anybody or living creature.Of course that would change,if someone threatens my family,or reptiles attempt an overt take over
...look at my avatar,it's no mistake.I'm military trained and disciplined,excellent cracking shot and weapons of choice,is a SLR L1A1
Assault rifle,or close combat,.357 auto-mag,which,can be purchased,with 500 rounds of ammo for $3000,expensive,but guaranteed pristine in condition,don't want blowback taking your head-off.I nearly got enough grades,in the military,to be considered a marksman,only the use of The Browning automatic,let me down.You aim on the 25m 1 foot above the head
of the target down range and I'm hitting it waist-high or in the knees..
I swear,throwing your ration pack biscuits,would be more effective,in causing
damage:D
11 years,straight in the can,for owning fire-arms,of any kind,with-out a licence,here in NSW...how fascist,is that?So,if you get pulled up by police,
you're forced to shoot out for your freedom.Back in 1987,I got caught,by police,with unregistered fire-arms in the boot of my old HR,lucky,I was in uniform,Army Reserves,I got let off,with a speeding ticket and told to change my attitude...cause I was telling them to go fuck themselves,I just got a new cam and was running it in....I did'nt know how to fake being a Freemason then,but do now.hahahahaha.

You mentioned the bikers,now this is interesting,7 years ago,a head biker was
going to spill the beans about police and organised child prostitution,he was promptly shot and this was in South australia...do you remember that...the
only person,I actually tried to assassinate,was John Howard,when he visited
Maitland.This is no shit.And,he visited,with a bullet proof vest.I made small talk with owners of shops in High Street,finding out,in my underhanded fashion
...if they're roof was being used on a particular day.Come JH visit,you could'nt get 4-500meters...And I was writing about this years ago,I've come along way,from being a lone-nut whack-job...Hmmm,maybe use sorcery instead,:D kidding.Regards Jason.

[ownoiz]

So true about the freeman stuff Boots. I look into it and read whenever i have spare time...and try and plant the seed where i can on others regarding their legal entity and so forth to get the ball rolling - send them on the start of their journey.

I like Jasons idea of faking the mason though, would get some of the more aware cops to back off somewhat if you know how to pull it off...or scare them with the freeman stuff...

Cant remember that specific incident but bikies often disappear in SA, and i suspect its not always other bikies doing it, but those higher up.
.
__________________
"Mall people they come and go, small people they just dont know" - Anna Faris

[thelyran]

So true about the freeman stuff Boots. I look into it and read whenever i have spare time...and try and plant the seed where i can on others regarding their legal entity and so forth to get the ball rolling - send them on the start of their journey.

I like Jasons idea of faking the mason though, would get some of the more aware cops to back off somewhat if you know how to pull it off...or scare them with the freeman stuff...

Cant remember that specific incident but bikies often disappear in SA, and i suspect its not always other bikies doing it, but those higher up.
.
__________________
"Mall people they come and go, small people they just dont know" - Anna Faris

...No,that was my old red-neck dickhead self.What is needed is,to get educated.Don't know much about being a "Freeman On The Land",but will have to start reading it.I realise my ways will just get you killed.So Boots is clever.Faking being a Freemason,is easy.Since I got the rings and cufflinks,the lingo and mystique.Why faking works in Australia,because 85% of NSW cops are Freemason,unlike the USA or UK,where you're looking at much lower percentages.Even my father was a Freemason,being a gaol warden and of course,his father.I never got sponsored and was too weird and
placid,in my early years.
....It is Injustice that drives me.I would'nt fit in,because I hate group minds,but can fake it so well.
...Yeah,Ownoiz,you know South Australia is ridled with organised peadophile rings,same here in NSW...I actually tried to expose it,failed,then went to war,
failed again.But that really happened,in SA.This biker leader was going to come clean,on the ABC...then Boom.

...I like having guns,because,if the people with numbers,in times of corrupt governments,the people can force the cops and army,to fight with us,to oust
the corrupt forces...and take care of business,once and for all.That's just my view.Standing there with a flower against a tank,is just ridiculous,given the mentality of the forces and their training.But a well armed,well-informed population,can change that.Education is the key,so,I might visit the Freeman thread,just read,no comments,because I don't know anything.Regards Jason.