does every masonic lodge have their own coins

[shansuke]

and what are they for,im just wondering cause my nephew,who i babysit sometimes came home yesterday from school with a coin belonging to the local lodge,i cant post a pic cause he wont give me it(he thinks its worth £1000.000,lol).
i think on one side it says"and every man was given a penny" with a triangle in the centre and letters round about it that dont seem to spell anything.

on the other side it has the name of the local lodge with arches in the centre looking kind of like a mcdonalds m with a g in the verry centre,a hammer under it,with a square under that.

i think it has a couple of other symboles on it but he would only let me look at his £1000.000 coin for a couple of seconds so i cant remember exactly what was on it.

just wondering what these are for and does all lodges have them.

[speculative]

Im assuming you mean something like this?

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3456/3347381806_00dea06fb4.jpg

No it is not a "standard" thing.
Some lodges will have a type of coin that is given out to new initiates but not that many. the usual reason for this is to commemmorate a lodge reaching a mile stone, 50, 100, 200 years, or its foundation etc, and then the Brethren of that lodge will receive one.

you can find them on ebay and all sorts of places :) so although not massively secret or expensive (about £2-£10 on ebay), they can hold a sentimental value to the Brother who is given one :)

HTH

[thelonious]

i think on one side it says"and every man was given a penny" with a triangle in the centre and letters round about it that dont seem to spell anything.

just wondering what these are for and does all lodges have them.

The letters on the penny are HTWSTKS. The penny itself is used for ceremonial purposes in the degree of Mark Master. In the United States and Canada, Lodges of Mark Masters are held under warrant from Chapters of Royal Arch Masons. The degree is not conferred in Blue Lodges.

Each Mark Masters Lodge have their own pennies. In the USA, the pennies usually have a picture of the Keystone on the front with the letters mentioned above. On the back is the name, number, and location of the Royal Arch Chapter.

[shansuke]

ahh cheers,yes its got those 2 symboles that that one has at either side,i thaught they where candles.
i told him to give it back to whatever kid gave him it but hes adement its worth a million and wont part with it,lol.
obviously some kids took it from their dads room or something and may get in to trouble for taking it but hes having none of it and wants to cash in.
or maybe hes just a little mason in the making,lol.

cheers for the reply.

[shansuke]

yes it says royal arch on it to,btw are you allowed to say what the "and every man was given a penny" means.

[thelonious]

yes it says royal arch on it to,btw are you allowed to say what the "and every man was given a penny" means.

It comes from a passage in the Gospel of Matthew, Chapter 20, vs. 1-16:

For the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which went out early in the morning to hire labourers into his vineyard.

And when he had agreed with the labourers for a penny a day, he sent them into his vineyard.

And he went out about the third hour, and saw others standing idle in the marketplace,

And said unto them; Go ye also into the vineyard, and whatsoever is right I will give you. And they went their way.

Again he went out about the sixth and ninth hour, and did likewise.

And about the eleventh hour he went out, and found others standing idle, and saith unto them, Why stand ye here all the day idle?

They say unto him, Because no man hath hired us. He saith unto them, Go ye also into the vineyard; and whatsoever is right, that shall ye receive.

So when even was come, the lord of the vineyard saith unto his steward, Call the labourers, and give them their hire, beginning from the last unto the first.

And when they came that were hired about the eleventh hour, they received every man a penny.

But when the first came, they supposed that they should have received more; and they likewise received every man a penny.

And when they had received it, they murmured against the goodman of the house,

Saying, These last have wrought but one hour, and thou hast made them equal unto us, which have borne the burden and heat of the day.

But he answered one of them, and said, Friend, I do thee no wrong: didst not thou agree with me for a penny?

Take that thine is, and go thy way: I will give unto this last, even as unto thee.

Is it not lawful for me to do what I will with mine own? Is thine eye evil, because I am good?

So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.

This passage of Scripture is read in the initiation ritual of that degree, and the candidates receive the Chapter pennies as keepsakes.

[speculative]

Now this is where it could get a bit complicated!

:D

depending on where you are in the world, the degrees are issued by different bodies (typical huh?!)

The "letters" may well be those of Mark Masonry, but the Royal Arch is a different degree, now in England and Wales, the Mark degree is given under the Mark Grand Lodge, where as in scotland it can be given either in the Craft lodge (what the americans call the blue lodge) OR in the Chapter (Royal arch), this may be where the confusion comes in!

The Mark Mason degree is an extension of the 2nd degree of Craft Masonry, though you can not request it until a Master Mason in England (scotland does the same but its usually automatic after the MM degree unless the candidate wants to do it in chapter later!)

The 2nd degree is that of a fellowcraft and part of that is that they received their wages in the middle chamber of King solomons temple.

This may be why its a Mark coin, from the Royal Arch Chapter as it may have been obtained ooop north, are you anywhere near the border?

[shansuke]

It comes from a passage in the Gospel of Matthew, Chapter 20, vs. 1-16:

For the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which went out early in the morning to hire labourers into his vineyard.

And when he had agreed with the labourers for a penny a day, he sent them into his vineyard.

And he went out about the third hour, and saw others standing idle in the marketplace,

And said unto them; Go ye also into the vineyard, and whatsoever is right I will give you. And they went their way.

Again he went out about the sixth and ninth hour, and did likewise.

And about the eleventh hour he went out, and found others standing idle, and saith unto them, Why stand ye here all the day idle?

They say unto him, Because no man hath hired us. He saith unto them, Go ye also into the vineyard; and whatsoever is right, that shall ye receive.

So when even was come, the lord of the vineyard saith unto his steward, Call the labourers, and give them their hire, beginning from the last unto the first.

And when they came that were hired about the eleventh hour, they received every man a penny.

But when the first came, they supposed that they should have received more; and they likewise received every man a penny.

And when they had received it, they murmured against the goodman of the house,

Saying, These last have wrought but one hour, and thou hast made them equal unto us, which have borne the burden and heat of the day.

But he answered one of them, and said, Friend, I do thee no wrong: didst not thou agree with me for a penny?

Take that thine is, and go thy way: I will give unto this last, even as unto thee.

Is it not lawful for me to do what I will with mine own? Is thine eye evil, because I am good?

So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.

This passage of Scripture is read in the initiation ritual of that degree, and the candidates receive the Chapter pennies as keepsakes.

so if im im getting it right its about fairness to everyone.and if thats right then the degree it deals with then is also about being fair and treating everyone the same,or am i not picking it up right(all that yah and nae patter is a bit hard to read).
and yes it was every man recieves a penny and not every man was given a penny it said.

didnt get the bit about the evil eye tho.
cheers for the replys.

[shansuke]

Now this is where it could get a bit complicated!

:D

depending on where you are in the world, the degrees are issued by different bodies (typical huh?!)

The "letters" may well be those of Mark Masonry, but the Royal Arch is a different degree, now in England and Wales, the Mark degree is given under the Mark Grand Lodge, where as in scotland it can be given either in the Craft lodge (what the americans call the blue lodge) OR in the Chapter (Royal arch), this may be where the confusion comes in!

The Mark Mason degree is an extension of the 2nd degree of Craft Masonry, though you can not request it until a Master Mason in England (scotland does the same but its usually automatic after the MM degree unless the candidate wants to do it in chapter later!)

The 2nd degree is that of a fellowcraft and part of that is that they received their wages in the middle chamber of King solomons temple.

This may be why its a Mark coin, from the Royal Arch Chapter as it may have been obtained ooop north, are you anywhere near the border?

scotland

[speculative]

didnt get the bit about the evil eye tho.
cheers for the replys.

The evil eye (as i understand it! and am willing to be corrected here!) was refering to the looks that the workers gave the owner after paying the chaps that did less work the same as those who were toiling all day.

the promised pay was a penny, and those that worked all day received it, but so did those hired much later on.

the first group of workers were upset as they felt they deserved more, even though that was what they agreed to work for, and the owner was just being generous.

therefore in modern day language i read it as "are you giving me an evil look because you feel hard done by mate? arent i free to give my money how i want? after all i was fair and paid you what we agreed on before"

[speculative]

scotland

That would be it then, this coin was issued under Chapter, hence the "Royal Arch" on the back and the Mark details on the front.

[shansuke]

a bit of course here but i get confused with all the differant forms of masonry ive read about,and apart from being a bit of a conspiricy thoerest i was actualy wanting to find out a bit about the old famous kilwinning lodge as thats the one my grandfather was a member of.
i never realy knew the guy and wanted to find out what he was all about so asked the grand lodge of scotland or whatever it was called,but all i got was an aplication form to join which im not intreasted in,that just fulled my concpiricy brain again that you dont get told nothing unless you join.
but seriously cheers for the replys,its good to know some of you are willing to talk about things.

[speculative]

i was actualy wanting to find out a bit about the old famous kilwinning lodge as thats the one my grandfather was a member of.
i

http://www.mk0.com/

Knock yourself out mate :)

Mother Kilwinning is a bit of a special case, they have traced her back to the 1100's (operative rather than speculative masons - Actual stone masons ass opposed to FREEMasons)

and so she has a rather unique number of 0 to signify that she is older than the Grand Lodge, (though when in her histroy she changed from a lodge of stonemasons to a lodge of Freemasons i think is a little unclear, you could speak to some of the scottish brethren that are around and they will give you a much better idea as to her origins than a southern englishman! lol)

Just an addition here, - Where i said that she is older than GL, and Lodges around at the forming of a GL are older than it, but i THINK MK was not present when the GL was formed and so could not get a number based on her age and so when she came under the Banner of the GL she was issued the number 0 to represent that she was the oldest. but again that could be wrong! any scottish brethren around?! :D

[thelonious]

so if im im getting it right its about fairness to everyone.and if thats right then the degree it deals with then is also about being fair and treating everyone the same,or am i not picking it up right(all that yah and nae patter is a bit hard to read).

I think that's a pretty good interpretation of that portion of the degree. On a deeper level, Jesus was talking about the fact that God is willing to forgive a life long sinner just as quick as he will forgive a life long saint, and I think that applies as well.

[speculative]

Jesus was talking about the fact that God is willing to forgive a life long sinner just as quick as he will forgive a life long saint, and I think that applies as well.

You know that had never occured to me before :D I always assumed it was a scripture showing the virtues of generosity and fairness, thank you, you learn something new everyday!

[shansuke]

thanks for the link speculative,ive saved it to my favourets.
i have to go out but will sure have a good read over that site in the next day or two.
i wonder if i will be able to get a list of its previous members,it would be intresting to see how far back any of members have ben part of it.

[speculative]

unknown! its unlikely they will give you a list of the members as its not exactly fair to give out peoples personal details, however if you know the family members names, and the years they were members then they may be able to tell you some info if they have it.

[shansuke]

I think that's a pretty good interpretation of that portion of the degree. On a deeper level, Jesus was talking about the fact that God is willing to forgive a life long sinner just as quick as he will forgive a life long saint, and I think that applies as well.


ahh i get it,so the person taking the degree is basicly saying by being fair to all they are carrying on gods will,as he would see everyone as equal.
if this is the case i think it could raise a few questions,but thats probably just my conspiricy head doing overtime.

thanks again,good replys,and paints a better picture than the one i previously had.

[thelonious]

ahh i get it,so the person taking the degree is basicly saying by being fair to all they are carrying on gods will,as he would see everyone as equal.


Sort of. Since it's part of the actual initiation ceremony, it is technically "secret", so I'm limited to what I can say. But the moral of the basic story in that degree is to only take wages that we know we've earned honestly.

[eastbeast]

A very interesting and informative thread thanks chaps.

I have also heard that some lodges give these tokens to initiates to mark their initiation into Freemasonry, but not many these days carry this on.

As stated before in the thread, there are plenty for sale on ebay ranging from 'proper' Masonic tokens to actual coinage that have been stamped with some mark or other.