random drug tests for those on benefits/welfare

[clozaril]

another of those proposals when you read them you think WTF


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090326/ap_on_bi_ge/states_welfare_with_strings

[brainfreeze]

I agree 100% with this. How many companies randomly drug test their employees? Yes, people who contribute to the dole are subjected to these tests, so why not those who want to benefit from it, is my view.

[batou]

Disagree with this and any drug testing.

The problem and solutions are deeper than calling someone an addict and denying them help/enabling them.

If someone takes drugs, so what?
If they come to work fucked up, fire them. If not, what does it matter what they do in their free time? You are not the police.

So why should ppl on welfare have to be subjected to analysis also?

Ridiculous! Expensive, intrusive and another way to control you.

[dreamweaver]

I agree 100% with this. How many companies randomly drug test their employees? Yes, people who contribute to the dole are subjected to these tests, so why not those who want to benefit from it, is my view.

Some of those people may be on the dole precisely because of those employer drug tests...

[shansuke]

I agree 100% with this. How many companies randomly drug test their employees? Yes, people who contribute to the dole are subjected to these tests, so why not those who want to benefit from it, is my view.


you what,no one should be drug tested,its your body and you can do what you like with it.
whats happening to these forums,people siding with tptb to help control us.
wether theirs drugs in my body or not i would never alow someone to have my urine so it can help them to keep us all in check.

its like i dont have a tv,but i still refuse the tv licence people entry to my home as it my choice and no one elses.

[whizzer]

YOU HAVE GOT TO BE F8CKING KIDDING ME!!! You think it is a good thing, if this happens then you will see riots!!
Brainfreeze you have no idea why people are on the dole but more often than not it ain't their fault! and you would deny someone a little comfort from having a joint or something just because they are unemployed... think about it for god sake , what next are we going to say that your not allowed luxuries such as coffee or chocolate if you're unemployed? not everyone on the dole are wasters. we all need some sort of comfort in life and don't think that I condone people on the dole through their own choice just to get wasted every day 'cause i don't but that is an image TPTB would like us all to believe but it aint so!
JESUS H. CHRIST PEOPLE!!!!

[steevo]

I agree 100% with this. How many companies randomly drug test their employees? Yes, people who contribute to the dole are subjected to these tests, so why not those who want to benefit from it, is my view.

Those who want to be tested should have the option to be tested, and those who dont want to be tested, should NOT be tested.
Brainfreeze I agree with you that YOU have the right to be tested if you want, that is YOUR perogative. Everyone else has their perogative too.

[brainfreeze]

*Ducks from the stoners stoning her*


This is your captain speaking. I've had 12 valuim, 2 joints and have been up snorting coke all night. Enjoy your flight. Putting drugs in my body is my right.

Yeah, you guys make perfect sense, not!

[steevo]

*Ducks from the stoners stoning her*


This is your captain speaking. I've had 12 valuim, 2 joints and have been up snorting coke all night. Enjoy your flight. Putting drugs in my body is my right.

Yeah, you guys make perfect sense, not!

Who is providing these drugs ?

[brainfreeze]

Who is providing these drugs ?


If your point is that it's "them" selling the drug then drug users are supporting "them" by buying their drugs, no?

Or is this condemnation only appropriate for those who "support" the system when paying tax - which I've been accused of on here before.

[bobhodge]

people being filing for unemployment benefit are not doing it because they do not want to work. they are doing it because economic conditions are so poor that they have to eek to the government for state benefits. i am surprised that people cannot see that the UK is nearly a totalitarian fascist regime. how did the sex pistols get it so right? a 21 year old john lyndon really made up those lyrics im betting. :rolleyes:

[steevo]

If your point is that it's "them" selling the drug then drug users are supporting "them" by buying their drugs, no?

Or is this this condemnation only appropriate for those who "support" the system by paying tax - which I've been accused of on here before.

The very people who SUPPLY these illegal drugs want to test you to make sure that you are not using them. (btw I am against all these illuminati supplied drugs whether legal or not).

[gilly]

Well I've even objected in the past at being asked in job interviews whether I'm a smoker. I've always said, "Not in company time", with a sweet smile on my face, but if they pushed it, the answer is, if it's not in company time, it's none of your flaming business.

It's not their business if someone takes drugs, smokes, or tapdances naked under a full moon. They need to fuck right off!

[brainfreeze]

If Gordon Brown turned out to be a smackhead, is that ok too? In his free time of course.

[gilly]

If Gordon Brown turned out to be a smackhead, is that ok too? In his free time of course.

It would only be his hypocricy in the matter that would be damning imo. And it's not as evil as what he really is during office hours.

[brainfreeze]

It would only be his hypocricy in the matter that would be damning imo. And it's not as evil as what he really is during office hours.


Ok, so legalise drugs, elect a new PM. It's ok for him to be a smackhead in his own time, right?

[gilly]

Ok, so legalise drugs, get a new PM. It's ok for him to be a smackhead in his own time, right?

I don't care one way or the other whether they legalise drugs. It's not the issue. The issue is the bully boy tactics used to infringe on people's privacy once again.

They're my slaves because I employ them, so I'll make them take tests. They're the state's slaves because we pay them benefits, so we'll make them take tests whether they like it or not.

What's next - enforced drug tests at random in the street?

[brainfreeze]

I don't care one way or the other whether they legalise drugs. It's not the issue. The issue is the bully boy tactics used to infringe on people's privacy once again.

They're my slaves because I employ them, so I'll make them take tests. They're the state's slaves because we pay them benefits, so we'll make them take tests whether they like it or not.

What's next - enforced drug tests at random in the street?

I use to run my own business in South Africa. I'd rather have someone who has their witts about them earning their crust than to take on a druggy who may fuck up regularly, costing ME money in the long run. It's as simple as that. I come from the wrong side of the tracks. I don't blame anyone for my failures, I don't accredit them with my successes either. I knew if I wanted to claw my way out of the gutter I would need to stay drug free and work fucking hard to achieve.

[mistress_medusa]

If Gordon Brown turned out to be a smackhead, is that ok too? In his free time of course.


It'd explain a few things like! :D

[brainfreeze]

It'd explain a few things like! :D

:p:D

[gilly]

I use to run my own business in South Africa. I'd rather have someone who has their witts about them earning their crust than to take on a druggy who may fuck up regularly, costing ME money in the long run. It's as simple as that. I come from the wrong side of the tracks. I don't blame anyone for my failures, I don't accredit them with my successes either.

But as previously stated, if someone doesn't do the job right, you show them the door - that's your right. I don't want anyone taking my urine samples, just in case I don't do a good job.

[lewi]

Goverment should not be in the business of telling people what they can and cannot put into there own bodys they are there to serve us not dictate.

[2013]

How long after drug testing becomes the norm do they then test for herbal remedies or vitamin supplements . Organic food as opposed to Frankenstein foods they are attempting to introduce .What if they detect you have never been vaccinated will they then pump you full of mercury etc .
There may be something to be said for not going to work stoned or drunk ,
Many major works of art literature and music have come about because of people on drugs primarily and maybe because of alcohol use as well .
but how does that apply to benefits .Will they introduce vouchers so you can only trade them for food or essentials .
The next step is sterilizing people with mental health problems , or developing mind reading machinery if not already available to them , so they can filter out our thoughts :rolleyes:
Please dont tell us what to say and do government that takes away all the fun of us being able to do it to others .
The opening lines say it all really .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lIgIk9BTa0

[shansuke]

so what if a member of the public refuses to take a drug test brainfreeze,what do you suggest we do then,put them in jail for refusing it,or hold them down and do it against their will.
can you not see where all this is leading.

[yozhik]

The way I see it, there is no such thing as a free lunch.

If you willingly and knowingly demand benefits and privileges, then you have to be prepared to surrender liberties and rights ... quid pro quo.

You don't want to give up rights?
Then don't agree to being a citizen and sealing a contract that states your rights can be assigned to you.
Citizens have rights assigned ... men and women have unalienable rights.

You don't want to be subjected to their rules?
Then don't expect benefits and privileges from the Nanny State.
Quid pro quo ... if you "take" then you know there is a "give" - to think otherwise is absurd and ridiculously naive.

Want to claim the rights of an adult?
Then stop acting like a spoilt child, arms out, expecting and demanding your pocket money.
Take responsibility and reclaim control and authority.

[brainfreeze]

The way I see it, there is no such thing as a free lunch.

If you willingly and knowingly demand benefits and privileges, then you have to be prepared to surrender liberties and rights ... quid pro quo.

You don't want to give up rights?
Then don't agree to being a citizen and sealing a contract that states your rights can be assigned to you.
Citizens have rights assigned ... men and women have unalienable rights.

You don't want to be subjected to their rules?
Then don't expect benefits and privileges from the Nanny State.
Quid pro quo ... if you "take" then you know there is a "give" - to think otherwise is absurd and ridiculously naive.

Want to claim the rights of an adult?
Then stop acting like a spoilt child, arms out, expecting and demanding your pocket money.
Take responsibility and reclaim control and authority.

You're so much more elequant than me. :)

[shansuke]

oh and brainfreeze,if you run a company and want to test your own workers then thats fine,its your company,if they dont like it then they can find another one to work for,but drug testing folk who out of work or sick,why would you want this.

[shansuke]

The way I see it, there is no such thing as a free lunch.

If you willingly and knowingly demand benefits and privileges, then you have to be prepared to surrender liberties and rights ... quid pro quo.

You don't want to give up rights?
Then don't agree to being a citizen and sealing a contract that states your rights can be assigned to you.
Citizens have rights assigned ... men and women have unalienable rights.

You don't want to be subjected to their rules?
Then don't expect benefits and privileges from the Nanny State.
Quid pro quo ... if you "take" then you know there is a "give" - to think otherwise is absurd and ridiculously naive.

Want to claim the rights of an adult?
Then stop acting like a spoilt child, arms out, expecting and demanding your pocket money.
Take responsibility and reclaim control and authority.

so someone works and pays tax for 30 years,takes a year out with a bad hip or something and is refused the benefits they have helped pay for all because they refuse to take a drugs test.

[gilly]

The way I see it, there is no such thing as a free lunch.

If you willingly and knowingly demand benefits and privileges, then you have to be prepared to surrender liberties and rights ... quid pro quo.

You don't want to give up rights?
Then don't agree to being a citizen and sealing a contract that states your rights can be assigned to you.
Citizens have rights assigned ... men and women have unalienable rights.

You don't want to be subjected to their rules?
Then don't expect benefits and privileges from the Nanny State.
Quid pro quo ... if you "take" then you know there is a "give" - to think otherwise is absurd and ridiculously naive.

Want to claim the rights of an adult?
Then stop acting like a spoilt child, arms out, expecting and demanding your pocket money.
Take responsibility and reclaim control and authority.

But that's an altoghether different argument. So people who are on sickness benefits for example, according to you should pull their socks up and take responsibility for themselves. Don't forget btw, it's tax from others, not the government who support them financially. By your argument, if they can't look out for themselves, they should not expect to be treated with dignity?

Who's side are you on?

[deca]

wait until you have to deal with the "thought police" examine your memories

If you don`t have a right to put drugs in your body with your own consent? how can somebody have a right to stop you doing it?

also fair enough if you are taken dole money and not even bothering to find a job and getting high ? then maybe you have a point? but isent there % of the population that just not employable any way weather they are smacked up or not? Theres no fuck jobs anyway? is there a clever way to create some? and fine and get some dole money back to the tax man?
I think its been said before theres more money cheated out of the tax man by the filthy rich than these stoned unemployed , What about the ones that grow there own pot? and have joint before going to bed?

What if you get done by this? will it not stop you getting a job? have you ever failed a drug test?
Arnt most junkies alright when they are high, its when they have no drugs or money then they are problem?

[gilly]

What about the ones that grow there own pot? and have joint before going to bed?

We'd better have random, doorstep, bedtime drug tests just in case any of them slip throught the net, eh? :mad:

[yozhik]

so someone works and pays tax for 30 years,takes a year out with a bad hip or something and is refused the benefits they have helped pay for all because they refuse to take a drugs test.

Please ... reread you post with open eyes.
Your rationale is straight out of their prayer book.

Before you use "paying tax" as a foundation of argument; why not ask whether paying tax is lawful?

If an argument is based on a false premise, then the argument itself becomes a false argument.

[yozhik]

But that's an altoghether different argument. So people who are on sickness benefits for example, according to you should pull their socks up and take responsibility for themselves. Don't forget btw, it's tax from others, not the government who support them financially. By your argument, if they can't look out for themselves, they should not expect to be treated with dignity?

Who's side are you on?

At what stage of my post did I say there should be no dignity?

Side? Who's side am I on?
Firstly, before asking me which side I am on, could you help me by naming the two sides and the captains of the teams? The use of the word "who's" implies leadership or ownership. If I have to make a choice, then I need to comprehend my choices.

Also, be aware that as a responsible adult, willing and able to decide for myself, that I may choose to not "play" your hypothetical game and either watch from the sideline, or go and start another game with different rules. That is my unalienable right, as a sentient man, aware of who I am and answerable to no master.

[bobhodge]

We'd better have random, doorstep, bedtime drug tests just in case any of them slip throught the net, eh? :mad:

eventually every home will be bugged with cameras and microphones.

[deca]

why is it that people that taken so called illegal drugs or have done are more mellow ?

taking magic mushrooms is probably as natural as eaten a potato ?
Would people ban potatoes?

eh the keep saying TV,internet,violent video games "persuade" people to act violent

how many pot smokers or people on mushy s act violent?

are they going to Breathalyzer you for booze?

[2013]

What about the many people who use "herbal " drugs for pain relief rather than chemical versions that cause more harm in side effects? What constitues a drug or illegal one ? something that they cant tax ?

[whizzer]

The way I see it, there is no such thing as a free lunch.

If you willingly and knowingly demand benefits and privileges, then you have to be prepared to surrender liberties and rights ... quid pro quo.

You don't want to give up rights?
Then don't agree to being a citizen and sealing a contract that states your rights can be assigned to you.
Citizens have rights assigned ... men and women have unalienable rights.

You don't want to be subjected to their rules?
Then don't expect benefits and privileges from the Nanny State.
Quid pro quo ... if you "take" then you know there is a "give" - to think otherwise is absurd and ridiculously naive.

Want to claim the rights of an adult?
Then stop acting like a spoilt child, arms out, expecting and demanding your pocket money.
Take responsibility and reclaim control and authority.

BENEFITS AND PRIVILEGES! what? if i went on the dole tomorrow i wouldn't be asking for BENEFITS OR PRIVILEGES! I would be asking for payments from the money I payed into the pot back, privileges phh!
A lot of people do a hard days work and come home to a nice cup of tea and a spliff just as you probably have a glass of wine or a brandy to unwind but you probably think "so! alcohol isn't illegal!" says who ? the government? the self same people who took us into an illegal war, the same people who constantly lie cheat and deceive us on a daily basis!
Brainfreeze who mentioned crack? sounds like you think that everyone who gets high is a crack head or some sorta out of control air head, I suggest you educate yourself a little. I also run a business (two in fact) and I would rather have someone who gets high on weed in their own time and come in fresh for work than have someone who comes in after a night on the booze, still under the effects of being drunk or hungover, eyes like piss holes in the snow and jittery.
I could go on but I will see what other nonsense is said on the subject .

[yozhik]

But that's an altoghether different argument. So people who are on sickness benefits for example, according to you should pull their socks up and take responsibility for themselves. Don't forget btw, it's tax from others, not the government who support them financially. By your argument, if they can't look out for themselves, they should not expect to be treated with dignity?

Who's side are you on?

Look at your "taxes" as insurance premiums.
Look at benefits as "insurance payouts".
Look at the "State" as the insurance company.
Look at your "Citizenship" as the insurance contract. (including small print)


By agreeing to becoming a citizen and accepting its rules and regulations, in return you were offered some "security" and peace of mind.

Pay your premiums and you will be covered for any unforeseen incident.

Included in the policy small print, there were clauses regarding the conditions of the policy. In other words, you accepted that there could be changes to the policy; legislation and statutes that altered the rules of the State to which you were a content and happy citizen. Politicians govern, legal statutes masquerade as law, policy enforcers hand out punishment for non-compliance, etc.

This is the system.
They even TELL you this is the system ... part of it is called National INSURANCE! What do you think that implies? Your insurance premium is taxed, your policy is for some policy payout at a certain age. Insurance.

Any insurer is entitled to alter the conditions of the policy, as long as it is reasonable and can be justified by events of the time. So, for the insurer to insist on drugs tests, is not going to be deemed "unreasonable". You may argue that it is in direct contradiction of your Human Rights ... but you have not read the small print of the contract you have entered and you have not fully comprehended the quid pro quo nature of citzenship and the benefit/privilege relationship.

I "hear" and agree with your frustration, but your issue is not with me.
It's with the one who signed a contract without reading and agreeing to all of its conditions.

[deca]

British soldiers on LSD
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NK3xFYjM1Cg

[gilly]

At what stage of my post did I say there should be no dignity?

Side? Who's side am I on?
Firstly, before asking me which side I am on, could you help me by naming the two sides and the captains of the teams? The use of the word "who's" implies leadership or ownership. If I have to make a choice, then I need to comprehend my choices.

Also, be aware that as a responsible adult, willing and able to decide for myself, that I may choose to not "play" your hypothetical game and either watch from the sideline, or go and start another game with different rules. That is my unalienable right, as a sentient man, aware of who I am and answerable to no master.

It is not a hypothetical game, though is it - it's people being shat on from a great height as alway. And as for your not comprehending the two sides, yes you do, or you wouldn't have gone down the freeman road anyway, so please don't try to play word games with me.

You're sitting there smugly because presumably you're a freeman. Most people have absolutely no idea whatsoever about this, or the trickery with which they've been duped into becoming an entity owned by the system.

So while you're sanctimoniously preaching about people not acting like children with their arms out, you're implying that it's their own fault.

And you were clearly saying that if they don't take responsibility for themselves they can't expect anything other than to be subjected to whatever indignities the state chooses to inflict.

Well I've paid taxes most of my adult life, as does my husband, and it's not clever for you to come along and imply that we're stupid for having done so. And part of that tax we've paid, so far as I'm concerned, is to support people who can't support themselves. I don't want them to have a drug test to decide if we're going to feed them or not, and don't consider that insistance on this is treating people with due dignity.

Your comments and attitude disgust me.

[whiterain]

great post gilly. brainfreeze answer me this. why should someone who takes drugs not be eligable for state support?

there are not enough jobs for everyone and those of you with the attitude that everyone on the dole is doing so through laziness or a lack of responsibility have read the daily mail far too often. drug testing at work is even a step too far for me. what business is it of my employers what i do at home. ok jobs that require attention like pilots fine, but ive done target related jobs for months and years on end, performing better than most co workers, and for the majority of the time being a 'stoned druggy'. yes i include during work time but if i can do the job then so what?

[shansuke]

i would love to know what people who are all for this think it will acheive.

[steevo]

great post gilly. brainfreeze answer me this. why should someone who takes drugs not be eligable for state support?


Cos people are brainwashed into believing that that is the way it should be. Conform or else.

[yozhik]

It is not a hypothetical game, though is it - it's people being shat on from a great height as alway. And as for your not comprehending the two sides, yes you do, or you wouldn't have gone down the freeman road anyway, so please don't try to play word games with me.

You're sitting there smugly because presumably you're a freeman. Most people have absolutely no idea whatsoever about this, or the trickery with which they've been duped into becoming an entity owned by the system.

So while you're sanctimoniously preaching about people not acting like children with their arms out, you're implying that it's their own fault.

And you were clearly saying that if they don't take responsibility for themselves they can't expect anything other than to be subjected to whatever indignities the state chooses to inflict.

Well I've paid taxes most of my adult life, as does my husband, and it's not clever for you to come along and imply that we're stupid for having done so. And part of that tax we've paid, so far as I'm concerned, is to support people who can't support themselves. I don't want them to have a drug test to decide if we're going to feed them or not, and don't consider that insistance on this is treating people with due dignity.

Your comments and attitude disgust me.

Your disgust is meaningless and ill directed.

I have never said it is anyone's fault, nor have I even used the word fault.
The word I have used and will continue to use is responsibility.
You also imply that by exploring the Freeman concept, I am or have not been in the same position.

You are dead wrong.

I have paid taxes all my working life.
Similarly, I did not comprehend the small print pertaining to being a citizen.
To use YOUR word; I am as much to "blame" as anyone else and it was my "fault".

However, I have also taken a personal decision to step up and take responsibility for my actions and my decisions.

You're sitting there smugly because presumably you're a freeman. Most people have absolutely no idea whatsoever about this, or the trickery with which they've been duped into becoming an entity owned by the system.

1. There is no smugness associated with trying to unwind this nefarious system and striving to comprehend what has been done, when it was done and how it can be undone.

2. If most people have no idea about this, then "most people" have the ability to explore it for themselves.

3. We have ALL been duped ... every single one of us.

Well I've paid taxes most of my adult life, as does my husband,
So have I.

and it's not clever for you to come along and imply that we're stupid for having done so.
"Stupid" is your word; not mine.

And part of that tax we've paid, so far as I'm concerned, is to support people who can't support themselves.
That is part of your interpretation of the social contract and I have never commented either for or against this notion.

I don't want them to have a drug test to decide if we're going to feed them or not, and don't consider that insistance on this is treating people with due dignity.
Is that a condition of the contract you have as a "citizen"?
Or is this your moral judgement and is a dispute with the party to whom you have contracted with?

As I have stated, but will state again.
I understand and agree with your frustrations.
However, no matter how much you would like to demonize me and direct your angst towards me and my beliefs; while you do so, the system to which you have made reference, still remains.

[gilly]

Your disgust is meaningless and ill directed.

I have never said it is anyone's fault, nor have I even used the word fault.
The word I have used and will continue to use is responsibility.
You also imply that by exploring the Freeman concept, I am or have not been in the same position.

You are dead wrong.

I have paid taxes all my working life.
Similarly, I did not comprehend the small print pertaining to being a citizen.
To use YOUR word; I am as much to "blame" as anyone else and it was my "fault".

However, I have also taken a personal decision to step up and take responsibility for my actions and my decisions.



1. There is no smugness associated with trying to unwind this nefarious system and striving to comprehend what has been done, when it was done and how it can be undone.

2. If most people have no idea about this, then "most people" have the ability to explore it for themselves.

3. We have ALL been duped ... every single one of us.

So have I.


"Stupid" is your word; not mine.


That is part of your interpretation of the social contract and I have never commented either for or against this notion.


Is that a condition of the contract you have as a "citizen"?
Or is this your moral judgement and is a dispute with the party to whom you have contracted with?

As I have stated, but will state again.
I understand and agree with your frustrations.
However, no matter how much you would like to demonize me and direct your angst towards me and my beliefs; while you do so, the system to which you have made reference, still remains.

A big round of applause to you for "stepping up " & taking responsibility.

Contrary to your assertion, not one thing I said implied that you were or had been in the same position, so I don't know where you're getting that from.

My disgust in you "is meaningless" because nothing will errode your own self satisfied smugness, despite your claims.

I don't care about you, or anyone with your outlook, because to say that anybody can explore how to become a freeman, does not give you the right to look down on those who don't (which you are doing with your, "arms held out like a child", spiel) - how would you expect the majority to explore something that they are completely ignorant of the existence of?

This thread isn't about how very wise & responsible you are, it's about the further infringement of the vulnerable, which is a spreading cancer.

And when you've finished patting yourself on the back, and saying "I'm alright, Jack", why don't you consider this...

If / when it comes to the jackbooted thugs pulling people from their beds for culling or serfdom, do you really believe that when they get to your house, they'll say, "Ooh, we'd better leave this one in his bed - he's a freeman"?

[yozhik]

A big round of applause to you for "stepping up " & taking responsibility.

Contrary to your assertion, not one thing I said implied that you were or had been in the same position, so I don't know where you're getting that from.

My disgust in you "is meaningless" because nothing will errode your own self satisfied smugness, despite your claims.

I don't care about you, or anyone with your outlook, because to say that anybody can explore how to become a freeman, does not give you the right to look down on those who don't (which you are doing with your, "arms held out like a child", spiel) - how would you expect the majority to explore something that they are completely ignorant of the existence of?

This thread isn't about how very wise & responsible you are, it's about the further infringement of the vulnerable, which is a spreading cancer.

And when you've finished patting yourself on the back, and saying "I'm alright, Jack", why don't you consider this...

If / when it comes to the jackbooted thugs pulling people from their beds for culling or serfdom, do you really believe that when they get to your house, they'll say, "Ooh, we'd better leave this one in his bed - he's a freeman"?

As I have said; your "beef" is not with me.
It's with the system.

I don't "look down" on anyone who doesn't explore ALL options (not just Freeman based concepts). However, I do believe that if you don't like a system, then you owe it to yourself to either change it or get out of it.

As for implying "I'm alright Jack" ... I'm also stuck in the system and have been for all of my working life.

You don't care about me or any others with my outlook ... fine. Your choice.

Re: your inference that the jackbooted thugs will leave me alone; that's ridiculous. They won't. I'll be just as vulnerable (if not more) than anyone else caught in this trap. I simply choose not to lie back and think of England as they shaft me.

Nothing smug in that.
It's ****ing frightening, to be perfectly honest.
I'm not going to pretend that it isn't.

If you're comfortable with your lot and feel the best place to fight the system is from within it, then I respect that.

My choice is otherwise.
I'm not going to hold you out as a demon, or stupid or evil or uncaring.
From your posts, none of these apply.
All I am expressing is a personal belief that the system is doing exactly what it was designed to do; tighten the noose around those that do not see the shackles they are restricted by, with double speak, nefarious use of benefits/privileges to erode away rights that have been assigned and can therefore me removed.
Yes - its repugnant.
Yes - it flies in the face of all that we believe and old dear.

We can agree on all of these issues.
However, there are obvious differences in how it is fought ... but at least we also agree that it has to be fought.

[gilly]

As I have said; your "beef" is not with me.
It's with the system.

I don't "look down" on anyone who doesn't explore ALL options (not just Freeman based concepts). However, I do believe that if you don't like a system, then you owe it to yourself to either change it or get out of it.

As for implying "I'm alright Jack" ... I'm also stuck in the system and have been for all of my working life.

You don't care about me or any others with my outlook ... fine. Your choice.

Re: your inference that the jackbooted thugs will leave me alone; that's ridiculous. They won't. I'll be just as vulnerable (if not more) than anyone else caught in this trap. I simply choose not to lie back and think of England as they shaft me.

Nothing smug in that.
It's ****ing frightening, to be perfectly honest.
I'm not going to pretend that it isn't.

If you're comfortable with your lot and feel the best place to fight the system is from within it, then I respect that.

My choice is otherwise.
I'm not going to hold you out as a demon, or stupid or evil or uncaring.
From your posts, none of these apply.
All I am expressing is a personal belief that the system is doing exactly what it was designed to do; tighten the noose around those that do not see the shackles they are restricted by, with double speak, nefarious use of benefits/privileges to erode away rights that have been assigned and can therefore me removed.
Yes - its repugnant.
Yes - it flies in the face of all that we believe and old dear.

We can agree on all of these issues.
However, there are obvious differences in how it is fought ... but at least we also agree that it has to be fought.

Good, I'm glad we agree on some things!

[drhemp]

That's shocking. However, piss tests are easy to cheat and I'm sure the guys at places like www.testclear.com will love these proposals.

[jahzel]

Random drugs tests are not FREEDOM.

And I'm pretty sure this is a violation of the 4th Amendment

[nectars]

Nice way to *pop* another little bit of Freedom. Little by little goes a long way in the end. Next they'll be randomly testing anyone for no apparent reason.

[jahzel]

Imagine what the news headlines are like in the future:

http://www.acc-tv.com/images/globalnews/generic_breakingnews.jpg

SLAVE'S BLOOD CONTAINED MARIJUANA

God help us.

[omnit]

I agree 100% with this. How many companies randomly drug test their employees? Yes, people who contribute to the dole are subjected to these tests, so why not those who want to benefit from it, is my view.

WHAT !!!???

are you serious? you want them to have MORE control over us?

Thats just wierd to hear on this site!

To me we should be free to take and try WHATEVER WE WANT TO!

Really shocked at your view on this!

[brainfreeze]

great post gilly. brainfreeze answer me this. why should someone who takes drugs not be eligable for state support?

there are not enough jobs for everyone and those of you with the attitude that everyone on the dole is doing so through laziness or a lack of responsibility have read the daily mail far too often. drug testing at work is even a step too far for me. what business is it of my employers what i do at home. ok jobs that require attention like pilots fine, but ive done target related jobs for months and years on end, performing better than most co workers, and for the majority of the time being a 'stoned druggy'. yes i include during work time but if i can do the job then so what?


Why should those who don't take drugs have to be drug tested in order to pay toward the keep of those who don't work and do drugs?

[deca]

whats next ? they should only eat own brand beans and not Heinz!!!!

look if they are on the dole and and entitled to dole money far as I am concerned they can spend it own what they like, but don`t come running to me a say your skint and hungry because you spent it on booze and drugs

Also There is varying different types of drugs and life styles , you would be surprised how many folk enjoy a joint know and then.

Its a problem when all you have is drugs and scoring drugs , that's like an alcoholic waking up and cracking a beer you need help.

there's a lot of drugs that used correctly can give you a cheap safe time.

Its the media ,government and the junkies that give it a bad name.
Alot of people would be sniffing glue achoul god knows what else anyway.

[21_12_2012]

British soldiers on LSD
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NK3xFYjM1Cg

haha classic clip...not seen that for a few years...thanks for reminding me
how funny it is.

"one man climbed a tree to feed the birds"

haa

[beegee]

Brainfreeze

The problem is not with the users, it's the dealers. That's why your thinking is dangerous. If you run up the chain to the drug cartel you'll expose the real problem and I bet it involves Government's to some extent and then the Elitist who profit in one way or another.

Another problem is what drugs do you test for, only illegal narcotics? Legal meds can be abused too..even caffiene. They'll also probably require a list or proof of prescription meds from your Dr. or pharmacy.

So you cut off their benefits, they are kicked out in the street, do they report to the nearest camp like CA set up? HMMM!! Cut em off, kick em out, round em up...most of us can look back to Stalin to know what happens next.

After it's all over they'll say Obama or whoever's in charge was paranoid and even with watchdog groups, we didn't see it coming. Because the watchdog groups are part of the plan, not the solution.

[leviathanstaar]

Anyone who thinks I should suffer a single consequence outside of of personal experience for smoking a little pot is :

A) A stupid person. Someone who latches on to an idea because the outer crust sounds ok, and hey, they have to believe in something right?

B) A communist/authoritarian of sorts. Whats good for you is good for me because you or some hat thinks so. Because your will is right and mine wrong you have a duty to impose your will uopn me until I see the light.

[the watcher]

I wonder how a Senior Poster could be so naive, especially after posting this.

Heed my warning.

They held me for 8 hours when I reported a suspect bag. That's how badly they want the publics help. They don't. They want your DNA on their illegal database, is what they want!

They get two ex users to say that the all sell their food stamps to get drugs and lend a bit of credibility to build the story.

Cook county trying to introduce fingerprinting to sell a house. Don't you get the picture.


When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.

Then they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews,
I did not speak out;
I was not a Jew.

When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out for me.


Here have a loan of my glasses :cool:

[the watcher]

P.S.

You all let me know if you still think it's a good idea when they get around to
chipping you.

No Chip, ACCESS DENIED.

[brainfreeze]

Make poverty history, cheaper drugs now!

[gutcassidy]

I use to run my own business in South Africa. I'd rather have someone who has their witts about them earning their crust than to take on a druggy who may fuck up regularly, costing ME money in the long run. It's as simple as that. I come from the wrong side of the tracks. I don't blame anyone for my failures, I don't accredit them with my successes either. I knew if I wanted to claw my way out of the gutter I would need to stay drug free and work fucking hard to achieve.

You don't need people to submit to drug tests to find out they've been fucking up regularly. If they're costing you money, fire them.

If you lay-off employees according to positive drug tests, you might be surprised how many good workers you lose.

[gilly]

Why should those who don't take drugs have to be drug tested in order to pay toward the keep of those who don't work and do drugs?

That argument doesn't make sense at all, Brainfreeze.

How will they determine who those that don't take drugs are, unless they drug test them?

[brainfreeze]

That argument doesn't make sense at all, Brainfreeze.

How will they determine who those that don't take drugs are, unless they drug test them?

My point being, certain companies already randomly drug test. These employees may or may not take drugs but they are tested randomly anyway. Refuse and you don't have a job. These people pay part of their hard earned toward social security.

Yet, you're free to collect that social security without a drugs test. You've not earned it. You claim you're owed it.

Mmmmm....kinda imbalanced, don't you think?

I'm sick of the "it's your right, life owes you". Life owes you sweet fuck all when you cop out. Just my view of course.

[gilly]

My point being, certain companies already randomly drug test. These employees may or may not take drugs but they are tested randomly anyway. Refuse and you don't have a job. These people pay part of their hard earned toward social security.

Yet, you're free to collect that social security without a drugs test. You've not earned it. You claim you're owed it.

Mmmmm....kinda imbalanced, don't you think?

I'm sick of the "it's your right, life owes you". Life owes you sweet fuck all when you cop out. Just my view of course.

I doubt I'll post on this thread again after this, because we've reached the stage of arguing round in circles.

To my mind, there shouldn't be drug tests in the work place, at all! It's wrong. Using the fact that they are conducted by some companies (though I've had a heck of a lot of jobs in my life, & have never been asked to take a drug test) is no justification for a further wrong - i.e. drug testing those on benefits. Two 'wrongs' have never yet made a 'right'.

[oneofthemasses]

I'm a lurker, but I had to step in. I can see both sides to this situation. However, I have to say that I agree that *generally* speaking, drug testing people on welfare should not be a problem for most people. Unless most people on here are unemployed drug users, most people should agree.

Here's why:

1.) Big picture: There is a real problem with the welfare system. We are not talking about those who are disabled, just laid off temporarily, etc. We are talking about people who have lived for YEARS on welfare, had children on welfare, their children have raised children on welfare, and all of these generations keep fueling the cycle. Entire families are living off of other's tax dollars as their 'right'. Who in their right mind would be OK with this?

2.) Welfare money was meant to keep people alive until they went back to work. In this case, not only do you have entire families living off of welfare as a job, instead of buying food, they are buying Nikes, weed, crack, and handguns. I'm sorry, but if you are a lifelong welfare recipient who has never paid taxes and you use tax dollars to buy weed or crack instead of food for you or your kid, you should not be getting money. Test away. It won't solve all of society's ills, but it's a start.

3.) Instead of smoking weed or crack all day, or spending the day looking for drugs, the idea is that these people could at least be *trying* to go back to school or look for a job. There's little incentive for these people if they are already living the 'high life'.

Perhaps my reasoning doesn't sound as objective as it could be, but the end result is the same.

If you are using a temporary relief system designed to give you money for FOOD and have some sort of roof over your head, you should NOT be spending your time and that money on drugs. Drugs (generally speaking) are not conducive to society at large for most people. For every 1 person who is a genius and comes up with an amazing album or painting while high, there are 99 more who are sitting on their couch with their hands in their pants watching Maury while their 5 low IQ kids run around dirty and hungry in the background. The cycle repeats itself in public housing complexes everywhere....

Dumb and doped. Yes, that's what the enlightened want.

Unfortunately, there is no way to sort out the honest laid off guy having a stress relieving toke from the hardcore user who has no intentions of ever getting a job. So sadly those who paid into the system will have to take the hit (pun not intended). ;)

I can definitely understand how many people can be upset by this, but that's just reality.

P.S. It is NOT your right to use a mind altering substance whenever you want. The pilot example is a good one. You are not in this world alone. Unless your job has absolutely no impact on anyone but you (I.e. you make beaded necklaces freelance in the desert and you pay your income tax on time), then you can't do whatever you want. People with certain medical conditions that can impact others (I.e. those prone to seizures or those with certain mental illness) can't join the military, drive school buses, or be pilots. Same principle. That's just reality, whether people like it or not...

Also, it is a company's right to make sure that you don't use drugs if you are working for them. It's not your company. Maybe they don't want someone tripping out while dealing with a client. Maybe they don't want someone coming to work high and giving a patient the wrong injection and killing them. Maybe they don't want someone being less productive because they're high on company time. Maybe they don't want to pay for higher insurance costs for those who develop health issues due to their drug habits....

Rules are in place for a reason. Unless you start your own company, then you really can't complain....

[nofuture]

I'm OK with it, as long as they also drug test major decision making people like politicians, cops, and business leaders.

[brainfreeze]

I'm a lurker, but I had to step in. I can see both sides to this situation. However, I have to say that I agree that *generally* speaking, drug testing people on welfare should not be a problem for most people. Unless most people on here are unemployed drug users, most people should agree.

Here's why:

1.) Big picture: There is a real problem with the welfare system. We are not talking about those who are disabled, just laid off temporarily, etc. We are talking about people who have lived for YEARS on welfare, had children on welfare, their children have raised children on welfare, and all of these generations keep fueling the cycle. Entire families are living off of other's tax dollars as their 'right'. Who in their right mind would be OK with this?

2.) Welfare money was meant to keep people alive until they went back to work. In this case, not only do you have entire families living off of welfare as a job, instead of buying food, they are buying Nikes, weed, crack, and handguns. I'm sorry, but if you are a lifelong welfare recipient who has never paid taxes and you use tax dollars to buy weed or crack instead of food for you or your kid, you should not be getting money. Test away. It won't solve all of society's ills, but it's a start.

3.) Instead of smoking weed or crack all day, or spending the day looking for drugs, the idea is that these people could at least be *trying* to go back to school or look for a job. There's little incentive for these people if they are already living the 'high life'.

Perhaps my reasoning doesn't sound as objective as it could be, but the end result is the same.

If you are using a temporary relief system designed to give you money for FOOD and have some sort of roof over your head, you should NOT be spending your time and that money on drugs. Drugs (generally speaking) are not conducive to society at large for most people. For every 1 person who is a genius and comes up with an amazing album or painting while high, there are 99 more who are sitting on their couch with their hands in their pants watching Maury while their 5 low IQ kids run around dirty and hungry in the background. The cycle repeats itself in public housing complexes everywhere....

Dumb and doped. Yes, that's what the enlightened want.

Unfortunately, there is no way to sort out the honest laid off guy having a stress relieving toke from the hardcore user who has no intentions of ever getting a job. So sadly those who paid into the system will have to take the hit (pun not intended). ;)

I can definitely understand how many people can be upset by this, but that's just reality.

P.S. It is NOT your right to use a mind altering substance whenever you want. The pilot example is a good one. You are not in this world alone. Unless your job has absolutely no impact on anyone but you (I.e. you make beaded necklaces freelance in the desert and you pay your income tax on time), then you can't do whatever you want. People with certain medical conditions that can impact others (I.e. those prone to seizures or those with certain mental illness) can't join the military, drive school buses, or be pilots. Same principle. That's just reality, whether people like it or not...

Also, it is a company's right to make sure that you don't use drugs if you are working for them. It's not your company. Maybe they don't want someone tripping out while dealing with a client. Maybe they don't want someone coming to work high and giving a patient the wrong injection and killing them. Maybe they don't want someone being less productive because they're high on company time. Maybe they don't want to pay for higher insurance costs for those who develop health issues due to their drug habits....

Rules are in place for a reason. Unless you start your own company, then you really can't complain....

Very well constructed post. I like :)

[itsallundercontrol]

I doubt I'll post on this thread again after this, because we've reached the stage of arguing round in circles.

To my mind, there shouldn't be drug tests in the work place, at all! It's wrong. Using the fact that they are conducted by some companies (though I've had a heck of a lot of jobs in my life, & have never been asked to take a drug test) is no justification for a further wrong - i.e. drug testing those on benefits. Two 'wrongs' have never yet made a 'right'.

Glad to see someone on this thread can see through this trash
Whats next food stamps and pointy hats with the word scum written on it
unemployment and taxation levels have nothing in common with each other tax will always increase/stay the same whatever the number of people on benefits.

I think if people started looking at themselves a bit more instead of just stereotyping and judging others they would start to realise "the great british public" is being wound up like a ferocious beast ready to take out its anger on anyone be it muslims,benefit claimants or asylum seekers just as long as its not the people who are really behind all this crap why not start to take out your anger and indignation on them instead of tearing some poor bastards stuck in a trap to shreds

[deca]

Hey lets live in the real world not some "utopia" state wares theres and job for every one.

Theres 2 million unemployed , plus many more unemployed but on other benifits so called training etc.....

Also I totally believe that there will be a certain amount of people that there their ability and The social environment, upbringing etc just will not be employedable period. These benifits were supposed for people who fall through the system and help them survive.
There is a believe that people chose to be unemployed as if so easy life?
have you tried to live on £60 odd pound a week true you do get housing benefit etc also the area were there is high unemployment and social problem probably doesn't attract employers or if it does they are normal minimal wage were alot of times where you are not much better off working time you calculate housing benefit etc plus a lot of jobs these days a temperay or thou agency`s .

Also you mention about training and educating well a lot of these are more to do with getting the long term unemployed off the "unemployed figure " for a few months than providing them with real educating them for some job that may or may not exist in the area.

What about mining Towns that will built around "mining" or some other core industry how many of these have diapered living towns to turn into "ghost towns" what impact does that do on the local population and not just the financial aspect ?

also think what the industrial revolution has done and the impact on social change
The most far-reaching, influential transformation of human culture since the advent of agriculture eight or ten thousand years ago, was the industrial revolution of eighteenth century Europe. The consequences of this revolution would change irrevocably human labor, consumption, family structure, social structure, and even the very soul and thoughts of the individual. This revolution involved more than technology; to be sure, there had been industrial "revolutions" throughout European history and non-European history. In Europe, for instance, the twelfth and thirteenth centuries saw an explosion of technological knowledge and a consequent change in production and labor. However, the industrial revolution was more than technology—impressive as this technology was. What drove the industrial revolution were profound social changes, as Europe moved from a primarily agricultural and rural economy to a capitalist and urban economy, from a household, family-based economy to an industry-based economy. This required rethinking social obligations and the structure of the family; the abandonment of the family economy, for instance, was the most dramatic change to the structure of the family that Europe had ever undergone—and we're still struggling with these changes.

There were a lot of good employers who invested in the work force and built not only descent social housing for the work force but schools ,parks library's, and culture centers There was a real connection.
What has happened when the industrial age is in decline were these most of the time family run firms have been bought out by pressure of profit for share holders these "industrial centers" have moved to Asia and other job work labor areas is there any wounder that there is social decline and unemployment?
Maybe if people had pride and opportunity then the number of these so called "layabouts" and junkies would not be so much of a problem (hype media to push blame on the poor and vulnerable ) or be tolerated , Look at or towns and citys there are some parts were good hard working folk a almost prisnors in thier home street gangs etc is it any wound with this culture these people don`t want to work and turn to drugs? Yes lets blame them and point the finger then we can feel good about ourselves how we are not like that.
Don`t get me wrong there has been a lot of change when local people in this housing estates have reclaimed there estates got to get to know local people and tried to include them in society not just call them scum.


Also can you blame people chosen as you claim to be on benefits over employment ? surly its the system is wrong? Yet again you are fallen for the hype and making scape goats and people to blame based on behavior etc....
Its quite easy in theses days to see that the unemployed and immigrants are going to be the new "Jews" did not Hitler not convince the Germans that it was Jews stealing their jobs and blaming them for Germans financial problems
who's next think how much of "your" Tax could save by bumping of the mental ill and the disabled
Don`t blame the people who engineered this made a fortune an avoid paying tax no, find some escape goat to blame and punch.

[deca]

hmm also they are try to push the we need to cut the population by 50% in order to save the planet:rolleyes: as the rescission kicks in and peoples feel the financial pressure its not hard how these ideas will seem attractive no carry on because you will thinks its a Good idea to cull these "scroungers" and people who don`t care about the "environment".Hey round them up now and gas em.Think about all that dole money we could save and give to the bankers!!!!!!

[whizzer]

I'm OK with it, as long as they also drug test major decision making people like politicians, cops, and business leaders.

YIP! test the guys who are running the country and we will soon see whats what.

[free_soul]

Honestly what can they do?

As soon as its in your system its part of your body so fuck all can come of it.
The same reason they cant arest you for a test

[shansuke]

i want to laugh at some of the comments made on this thread,but its realy not funny,its f**king frightining to know theirs so called truth seekers here that are just as bad as the ptb,your not even taking things in to consideration like,folk who are sick and simply cant work,or the fact that if every availible job in the uk was taken their would still be lots on benefits with no hope of a job,or the fact that folk can grow their own drugs and dont have to pay a penny from their dole cheques,or what about the fact that most folk on sickness benefits actualy paid taxes for years in the hope that if anything ever did hapen to them then they would be looked after for the time they are sick(and not told what to do with the money that they had created.

brainfreeze and a few others on here have verry narrow minds,and dont stop to think for a minute about peoples rights or what each and every little bit of control leads to,its all just another brick in the wall thats being built all around us.

i think brainfreeze and a few others on here see most folk on benefits as junkie vampires sucking the life out of them while they stubbornly get up for work every morning,(like its the ones on the dole thats making the rules).
have any of you stoped to think for a minute how all these folk ended up in the position they are in in the first place,ok theirs the odd few who actuly choose that life,but come on,do you think most folk in that position want to be like that.
unemployment is just a nasty side effect of what this country has become,lots and lots of folk live in fear and depression with no hope of a way out and you want to take away any small comforts they may have and drive them further in to depression because you have to to take a drug test and its not fair,(dummy tit gets thrown out the pram).

[deca]

I don`t think some of you see what impact and that we are on the crossroads, The change from the Industrial age to the information age and what that is going to mean for humanity. As technology merge and also the line between man and machine blurs , Things link the "hive mind" Transhumanism and human 2 start to be a reality , also the total awareness system goes fully functionally.Then you soon realize that maybe they don`t need so many humans ???? then industrial age they need man power the workers to drive it and had to attract people into the towns and into the work force.

Some of you don`t realize the stakes here, while some of the population is getting demonized others are getting an "utopia" dream offered life extension.mental and physical improvements etc.

Do you really think if people are deemed to be "guilty" there "fault" "unwanted" not needed and a Problem for the human 2 to move on that you are going to get in our way? we have all the "toys" and the Tech.

[deca]

this testing and also the new Behaviorism sciences is just another way to "grade" humans and turn them in to products , Looks like the standards are going to pretty high as the need 50% rejects so do you think it will stop with drug test? smokers of fags ? euthanasia? etc
hmm computer logic can be so cold and inhuman on/off live/die:eek:


Remember whats happened to me has made me think about this, a great deal. I don`t know how long this phase transformation will take!!! it seems most of you are just starting to think about this ,Thinking you can just say no to a implant/chip a few years down the road.

http://static-p3.fotolia.com/jpg/00/03/21/78/400_F_3217878_Z5umeAgZ5SyqjbcUW2PQRxLqNOuHIJ.jpg

don`t they

[deca]

gees a job

http://www.thegamereviews.com/userfiles/image/shaun_of_the_dead_zombies.gif

This is ether going to be horrific or psychopathic dream:eek:

[change]

It is a absolute joke , just more control .

[whizzer]

Shansuke I fear you are wasting your breath, some are never gonna see the point!

"i think brainfreeze and a few others on here see most folk on benefits as junkie vampires"

Of course they do and that is just because they think that they are somehow superior to people who have fallen on hard times, I have met their sort many times and there is only one way they are going to waken up and that is when, through no fault of their own, they may find themselves on the dole. ( and Brainfreeze before you kick off by saying you will NEVER be on the dole remember that was probably how most people presently claiming unemployment thought).
And if that day comes for you Brainfreeze ( and I hope it doesn't) then I wonder how you would feel if they said you have to take tests to see if you have been drinking, after all if dole money shouldn't be used for recreational drugs it shouldn't be used for alcohol either...right?
I would like to say to those of you who are so narrow minded to actually agree with this idea of drug testing and FURTHER erosion of human rights that the government has NO RIGHT to issue conditions of this sort to claimants, and before everyone starts quoting laws and statutes I say this, laws and statutes are why all those bankers are now living off ultra pensions after bringing the country to its knees..with no charges being brought against them ..this isn't about what is lawful or legal..this is about what is RIGHT.
Laws and statutes are being manipulated constantly by TPTB to cover their own asses and to gently coax the public deeper into slavery. It is THEIR fault that most of these people are on the dole and now they want to dictate how these people choose to live!
if we are to be looking into ANYONES lifestyle we should be looking at the MPs that claim expenses for second homes in the city or MPs that claim their £800 travel expenses every time they attend meeting in Brussels even though they only pay £45 on cheap flights from London OR ..well I could go on.

[deca]

maybe some of you alternative life style rs and survivalist should look at for some place area these globalist/nwo are not bothered about, Maybe buy greenland:D and cut a deal.

When you realize what the future has to offer you we realize thay arnt going to fuck around.You ether with it or against it.

think about this meat eaters against vegetarians theirs only ever go to be one winner there Spears and weapons ageist baskets and flowers

[brainfreeze]

Shansuke I fear you are wasting your breath, some are never gonna see the point!

"i think brainfreeze and a few others on here see most folk on benefits as junkie vampires"

Of course they do and that is just because they think that they are somehow superior to people who have fallen on hard times, I have met their sort many times and there is only one way they are going to waken up and that is when, through no fault of their own, they may find themselves on the dole. ( and Brainfreeze before you kick off by saying you will NEVER be on the dole remember that was probably how most people presently claiming unemployment thought).
And if that day comes for you Brainfreeze ( and I hope it doesn't) then I wonder how you would feel if they said you have to take tests to see if you have been drinking, after all if dole money shouldn't be used for recreational drugs it shouldn't be used for alcohol either...right?
I would like to say to those of you who are so narrow minded to actually agree with this idea of drug testing and FURTHER erosion of human rights that the government has NO RIGHT to issue conditions of this sort to claimants, and before everyone starts quoting laws and statutes I say this, laws and statutes are why all those bankers are now living off ultra pensions after bringing the country to its knees..with no charges being brought against them ..this isn't about what is lawful or legal..this is about what is RIGHT.
Laws and statutes are being manipulated constantly by TPTB to cover their own asses and to gently coax the public deeper into slavery. It is THEIR fault that most of these people are on the dole and now they want to dictate how these people choose to live!
if we are to be looking into ANYONES lifestyle we should be looking at the MPs that claim expenses for second homes in the city or MPs that claim their £800 travel expenses every time they attend meeting in Brussels even though they only pay £45 on cheap flights from London OR ..well I could go on.

Excuse me?

You don't know me. You and your sort! Pha! You're not even worth a response more than this.

Have a good joint, I mean day

[gilly]

How long before they're sterilising people and checking up who you associate with?

[deca]

I think the people at to top and the bottom sort know were this is going, Its the people in the middle with a picket fence sense of denial around there life,with it won`t effect me attitude.These new spy laws are there to protect me ,they want spy on me, if they spy on others that are fly tipping then that's ok , They wan`t test me, but if they test people on the doles its ok i won`t be on the dole.

Just because you arn`t doing anything wrong does that mean they won`t spy on you? how do they know?

What will be "acceptable" or not were will the line be drawn ????

How long before they're sterilising people and checking up who you associate with?

do you know somebody on the dole ? yes/no

if Yes please explain what your relationship is? and do you know if the smoke blow?
Remember any thing you say that later maybe false you will receive disciplinary actions.

[shansuke]

Excuse me?

You don't know me. You and your sort! Pha! You're not even worth a response more than this.

Have a good joint, I mean day

he or she is sticking up for what they believe,who said they smoke joints,i suggest you have a good think about what you have said on this thread,and about the biger picture of the whole thing.

[brainfreeze]

he or she is sticking up for what they believe,who said they smoke joints,i suggest you have a good think about what you have said on this thread,and about the biger picture of the whole thing.

He made an assumption about me which is totally off the mark. I think those who cop out and collect the dole, yet can afford to smoke dope and surf the Icke forum all day should look at the bigger picture.

Of course they're defending their corner.

[gilly]

He made an assumption about me which is totally off the mark. I think those who cop out and collect the dole, yet can afford to smoke dope and surf the Icke forum all day should look at the bigger picture.

Of course they're defending their corner.

Before you type another word, I'd lilke to point out that I'm not on the dole, and I don't take drugs - so I hope you're not assuming that those of us who are against the statement in the OP are "standing our corner". If that is what you think, you're mistaken. But who the blazes are you to dictate that someone on the dole can't have a joint if they want one?

[brainfreeze]

Before you type another word, I'd lilke to point out that I'm not on the dole, and I don't take drugs - so I hope you're not assuming that those of us who are against the statement in the OP are "standing our corner". If that is what you think, you're mistaken. But who the blazes are you to dictate that someone on the dole can't have a joint if they want one?

Dictate?

An opinion is dictating now? FFS!

I come from the wrong side of the track, so I'm speaking from a place I know, ok?

Fucking layabouts. not all dole users no, but MOST

I guess I live in comfort now because I'm part of the agenda?

You guys!


The government is not at blame for my failures, nor is it a credit to my successes.

Some people need an excuse for their failures/short coming/reason to cop out.

[gilly]

Dictate?

An opinion is dictating now? FFS!

I come from the wrong side of the track, so I'm speaking from a place I know, ok?

Fucking layabouts. not all dole users no, but MOST

I knew it!

It's not really the drug test thing you're on this thread for at all. It's that you're bitter about there being a dole system. Stuff you, you bitter cow!!!

[brainfreeze]

I knew it!

It's not really the drug test thing you're on this thread for at all. It's that you're bitter about there being a dole system. Stuff you, you bitter cow!!!

What?!

Oh stuff you and your irrational mind

[shodan]

Dictate?

An opinion is dictating now? FFS!

I come from the wrong side of the track, so I'm speaking from a place I know, ok?

Fucking layabouts. not all dole users no, but MOST

I guess I live in comfort now because I'm part of the agenda?

You guys!


The government is not at blame for my failures, nor is a credit to my successes.

could you go and say that to the millions of men and women who have worked all their lives who are now having to sign on the dole because of an egineered credit crunch in the UK? They have every right to have a joint or drink or whatever they choose, especially with what they are going through now.

There's some points need making about this issue.

- When did we give away our rights to somone to come and extract urine from fellow human beings to test what they've been up to in their spare time? Only eugenicists could come up with somehting like this.

- It automatically assumes that people who take drugs perform their job badly. If someone is not doing their job, sack them. you'll find its a mix of drug users and non drug users.

- Management and above in firms tend not to be tested, and this is where the cocaine culture thrives, because they can afford it.

- people on the dole are not inferior to people who work.

nobody has the right to do this to anyone else but they are. so under these circumstances here's my proposal:

Every morning, members of the public get to test (in public) Policemen, Politicians, management, councillors etc as well as the people on the dole. All people who are found positive are sacked and replaced by people on the dole.

[brainfreeze]

could you go and say that to the millions of men and women who have worked all their lives who are now having to sign on the dole because of an egineered credit crunch in the UK? They have every right to have a joint or drink or whatever they choose, especially with what they are going through now.

There's some points need making about this issue.

- When did we give away our rights to somone to come and extract urine from fellow human beings to test what they've been up to in their spare time? Only eugenicists could come up with somehting like this.

- It automatically assumes that people who take drugs perform their job badly. If someone is not doing their job, sack them. you'll find its a mix of drug users and non drug users.

- Management and above in firms tend not to be tested, and this is where the cocaine culture thrives, because they can afford it.

- people on the dole are not inferior to people who work.

nobody has the right to do this to anyone else but they are. so under these circumstances here's my proposal:

Every morning, members of the public get to test (in public) Policemen, Politicians, management, councillors etc as well as the people on the dole. All people who are found positive are sacked and replaced by people on the dole.

Ummm....I'm refering to careeer dole'ers, ta.

The credit crunch had nothing to do with them being unemployed, did it? They've been poncing for years. If you can't afford to feed your family you can't afford a drug habit.

[shodan]

Ummm....I'm refering to careeer dole'ers, ta.

The credit crunch had nothing to do with them being unemployed, did it?

your referring to most dole users, which is an absurdity

not all dole users no, but MOST

[brainfreeze]

your referring to most dole users, which is an absurdity

Yeah, most dolers have been on it for years. Only the credit crunch gives the figure a bit of an imbalance now. But hey, we're all entitled to free cash, right? Spark a joint mate, let's celebrate and blame the governement because the money doesn't cover food and drugs.

Like I said, make poverty history, cheaper drugs now. Thanks Frank

[deca]

Ummm....I'm refering to careeer dole'ers, ta.

The credit crunch had nothing to do with them being unemployed, did it? They've been poncing for years. If you can't afford to feed your family you can't afford a drug habit.

how many career doles are their?

The government would love you to believe that people are not on dole because of the credit crunch,social/economic decline,failing education system no they chose it?

Should you not be ask why these people choose to be on the dole and take/turn to drugs?
their is line between recontianal drugs use and drug addiction there is a danger that recondnattnal can turn into drug addiction that normal about the user and there personal situation and what drugs etc there have access to etc.

Arnt they more teenagers get up the duff to get benefit and cancel house ? or is that another stereotype to dump on economic problems on?
why not test dolies being pregnant or make sure they are on the pill or using johnnys so they don`t have any sprogs that "YOU" have to pay for.

eh will have to make sure they don`t have unprotected sex "they will breed like rabbits" these carer dollies !!!!!!!

[shodan]

Yeah, most dolers have been on it for years. Only the credit crunch gives the figure a bit of an imbalance now. But hey, we're all entitled to free cash, right? Spark a joint mate, let's celebrate and blame the governement because the money doesn't cover food and drugs.

Like I said, make poverty history, cheaper drugs now. Thanks Frank

I work if thats a direct dig.

Its not free cash, for example I'm in my 30's and have paid 10's of thousands into this system, so when I find myself in between jobs, I'm quite happy to claw a fraction of it back. I'm the norm in this respect.

Like I said, make poverty history, cheaper drugs now. Thanks Frank

Instead of incorrectly tarring everyone with the same brush, we could talk like adults instead of throwing insults.

Only the credit crunch gives the figure a bit of an imbalance now

you call it a bit of an imbalance, I call it total economic meltdown with millions joining the dole queues. In America its Tent cities.

there's no doubt there's people on the dole that shouldn't be, but it isn't anywhere near the scale you've been led to believe, and I think your days of gloating won't last long as this is going to affect every last person, unless you are a multi-trillionaire

[brainfreeze]

how many career doles are their?

The government would love you to believe that people are not on dole because of the credit crunch,social/economic decline,failing education system no they chose it?

Should you not be ask why these people choose to be on the dole and take/turn to drugs?
their is line between recontianal drugs use and drug addiction there is a danger that recondnattnal can turn into drug addiction that normal about the user and there personal situation and what drugs etc there have access to etc.

Arnt they more teenagers get up the duff to get benefit and cancel house ? or is that another stereotype to dump on economic problems on?
why not test dolies being pregnant or make sure they are on the pill or using johnnys so they don`t have any sprogs that "YOU" have to pay for.

I use to live amidst the dolers love. This is where I formed my opinions from. My sister lived on the worse council estate in Scotland, Tory. I'm not speaking from the outside looking in. I have heard the blame game over and over and over.

When looking for a hand-out do you not think you owe some sort of a commitment too? Or are hand outs ones rights?

[brainfreeze]

I work if thats a direct dig.

Its not free cash, for example I'm in my 30's and have paid 10's of thousands into this system, so when I find myself in between jobs, I'm quite happy to claw a fraction of it back. I'm the norm in this respect.

Did you miss my career dole'er comment? Selective reading?


Instead of incorrectly tarring everyone with the same brush, we could talk like adults instead of throwing insults.

Ok, but that does seem to be the council estate mantra brought to you by Frank Gallagher, wondeer where the producers got the idea for that show? Oh yes "them"


you call it a bit of an imbalance, I call it total economic meltdown with millions joining the dole queues. In America its Tent cities.

Ok

there's no doubt there's people on the dole that shouldn't be, but it isn't anywhere near the scale you've been led to believe, and I think your days of gloating won't last long as this is going to affect every last person, unless you are a multi-trillionaire

I must have imagined all those unemployed I lived amongst. Maybe I am mind controlled. I like to think I'm not. I simply have a good work ethic.

[deca]

When looking for a hand-out do you not think you owe some sort of a commitment too? Or are hand outs ones rights?

to be honest , there apart of society that is basically caught it this "hand out" live off the sate and there are benefit cheats etc. There are also others that are paid a lot ,more and cheat the system.

I agree these people should not give up or accept this. I could go on about this.

but you don`t know how degrading it is signing on. I have for sort periods.
even what I go throw I have two jobs so I don`t have much sympathy for the people that don`t even try to get a job, fuck em.

But to paint ever one on the dole as this is wrong

I can`t afford to be on the dole, it does not pay my mortgage,bills debt ect...

But I can see me having to walk in one day sign on , be look apoun as scum useless ask aload of questions then prove who I am what I said as if I am some fraudster then the to add insulate to injury ask to pee in a bottle to check weather or not I am some junkie or not.

is it worth it , think about it Time you get your dole , direct debits etc have been throw your account and you occurred bank charges ,interest late fees ect.....been there ......

[brainfreeze]

to be honest , there apart of society that is basically caught it this "hand out" live off the sate and there are benefit cheats etc. There are also others that are paid a lot ,more and cheat the system.

I agree these people should not give up or accept this. I could go on about this.

but you don`t know how degrading it is signing on. I have for sort periods.
even what I go throw I have two jobs so I don`t have much sympathy for the people that don`t even try to get a job, fuck em.

But to paint ever one on the dole as this is wrong

I can`t afford to be on the dole, it does not pay my mortgage,bills debt ect...

But I can see me having to walk in one day sign on , be look apoun as scum useless ask aload of questions then prove who I am what I said as if I am some fraudster then the to add insulate to injury ask to pee in a bottle to check weather or not I am some junkie or not.

is it worth it , think about it Time you get your dole , direct debits etc have been throw your account has occurred bank charges ,interest late fees ect.....been there ......

How do we stop these career dole'ers other than drug testing them if they want their hand out?

Any suggestions?

Right now there are genuine people in need of the service, but it's bowing at the weight.

[gilly]

Ummm....I'm refering to careeer dole'ers, ta.

The credit crunch had nothing to do with them being unemployed, did it? They've been poncing for years. If you can't afford to feed your family you can't afford a drug habit.

No, you've specifically said "not all on dole but MOST of them" - you can't back-track now that you've shown your true colours.

You're the one with an irrational mind.

Or would you like to differentiate between which "dolies" get tested & which don't?

Yeh, because some people are scum, eh? Let's treat them as less than human. Forget the fact that the system has nurtured this culture for years, making it unworthwhile financially for some to go to work. Now they're whipping up hatred for these folk, with people like you taking the bait. It's called PROBLEM - REACTION - SOLUTION. Yeh, they've managed to avoid the rat race, so don't let them have a joint, or a tipple or any bloody thing other than bread & water, aye? Because it might make sour people like yourself angry. Dispicable!

[brainfreeze]

No, you've specifically said "not all on dole but MOST of them" - you can't back-track now that you've shown your true colours.

Back track, or correct myself?

You're the one with an irrational mind.

Or would you like to differentiate between which "dolies" get tested & which don't?

No, mandatory. When given a handout because you can't afford to support yourself then yu can't afford dope either.

Yeh, because some people are scum, eh? Let's treat them as less than human.

Those are your words darling

Forget the fact that the system has nurtured this culture for years, making it unworthwhile financially for some to go to work. Now they're whipping up hatred for these folk, with people like you taking the bait. It's called PROBLEM - REACTION - SOLUTION. Yeh, they've managed to avoid the rat race, so don't let them have a joint, or a tipple or any bloody thing other than bread & water, aye? Because it might make sour people like yourself angry. Dispicable!

Don't lay your hang ups on me precious.

[gilly]

Don't lay your hang ups on me precious.

No 'darlin', you've shown yourself up for what you are are, and that's full of bitterness and resentment.

[whizzer]

Excuse me?

You don't know me. You and your sort! Pha! You're not even worth a response more than this.

Have a good joint, I mean day

My sort!!! You have Really shown your true colours on this thread, i would advice you to simmer down!

[thelyran]

...Brainfreeze,please get the Money Masters videos,part 1+2,Monopoly Men
Money Banking and the federal reserve,you'll find very quickly,that no one cent of peoples income tax pay for social security or civil services,but goes towards the interest of the Federal reserve,having the "Right" to print money.
Until,everyone understands the principles in these documentaries,no-one can say they understand anything with money.You're not under mind-control,but your view,unfortunately is corrpted by official lines and sources...
Sorry.

[brainfreeze]

My sort!!! You have Really shown your true colours on this thread, i would advice you to simmer down!

I made that comment because YOU mentioned my sort lol What the hell!

[deca]

How do we stop these career dole'ers other than drug testing them if they want their hand out?

first of all are they such a problem?
I work in the hotel and catering business? they work in an operating fuger 20-30% of stock going to waste or staff theft etc if they can do it why can`t the government? or is it an easy thing to highlight when the profits are down.

Yes you can try and discourage this and better manage it.
But is getting people peeing in a bottle and accusing them of taken drugs going to solve it.How much is the testing going to cost ? what will it achieve?
will it not be more of a pr campaign and demonize people on the dole ?
I can`t wait for all the three page spreads of the one or two dale cheats that get caught with this so they can hype it up.
No this is to do more with demonizing the unemployed as the unemployed figures are going to rise, an some who spin it to people in work that so how they have a freeloader life style and they will agree to cut and stop peoples benefit.
This will do nothing to stop the Dole cheats,Just manipulate the mind of others.

[thelyran]

Aaron Russo's "Freedom to Fascism"...need that too...very interesting,you
don't have to pay

tax

It's illegal to do so...

[brainfreeze]

No 'darlin', you've shown yourself up for what you are are, and that's full of bitterness and resentment.

Who is bitter darling?

I think you are, what with your over use of the word.

No matter how many time you tell me I am does not make your silly statement true. Geddit? I have an opposing opinion to you, is all.

[brainfreeze]

...Brainfreeze,please get the Money Masters videos,part 1+2,Monopoly Men
Money Banking and the federal reserve,you'll find very quickly,that no one cent of peoples income tax pay for social security or civil services,but goes towards the interest of the Federal reserve,having the "Right" to print money.
Until,everyone understands the principles in these documentaries,no-one can say they understand anything with money.You're not under mind-control,but your view,unfortunately is corrpted by official lines and sources...
Sorry.

Cheer hun


My boyfriend is an economist, I'll get him to explain it to me.

[gilly]

Who is bitter darling?

I think you are, what with your over use of the word.

No matter how many time you tell me I am does not make your silly statement true. Geddit?

Get a grip, would you. You're the one who's spouting venom about "the fucking layabouts" and applauding the introduction of drugs testing.

[brainfreeze]

Get a grip, would you. You're the one who's spouting venom about "the fucking layabouts" and applauding the introduction of drugs testing.

Yes, I am in support of the drug testing. True. And no, I can't abide fucking layabouts. What a waste of life. I'm not about to encourage it.

Now you get a grip of your emotions darl, you're splitting at the seams.

[deca]

Do people on the dole spend there money in this country and pay tax,NI VAT ?
or do they invest offshore? live in a TAX haven? employ clever accounts? get bonness on unrelated to work performance?

[brainfreeze]

Do people on the dole spend there money in this country and pay tax,NI VAT ?
or do they invest offshore? live in a TAX haven? employ clever accounts? get bonness on unrelated to work performance?

Erm, no. They spend OTHER PEOPLES MONEY which they themselves haven't earned. Those who have earned it are sick of supporting them hence seeking a tax haven. Why should they work to support lazy asses? What's good for the goose is good for the gander. Or is it only the dole'ers who are allowed to work the system and TAKE?

[kanz]

Ok, so legalise drugs, elect a new PM. It's ok for him to be a smackhead in his own time, right?

Yes indeed , as long as he does a good job he could stick plastic ducks up his arse for all i care. Ofc if he was a smack head he would most likely get the sack because of not showing up for work etc, tho I doubt it would be much worse if he was a smack head, i mean he's hardly doing a good job the now. People go on about drugs but isnt there like 10 bars in parliment and there all tax free.

I hate smack as it destroy's people , but keeping drugs illegal isnt helping this problem in anyway . Keeping it illegal just put's a high price on a substance that is highly addictive, and put's it in the hands of people who arn't going to check purity levels or ask for ID, surely anyone can see thats a problem.

The point im makeing is dont' judge an individual because they do drugs , judge him by what they do. Half the parliment are probably rubbered when the debate , but no one bats an eye lid about the drug called booze.

[deca]

Erm, no. They spend OTHER PEOPLES MONEY which they themselves haven't earned. Those who have earned it are sick of supporting them hence seeking a tax haven. Why should they work to support lazy asses? What's good for the goose is good for the gander. Or is it only the dole'ers who are allowed to work the system and TAKE?


They spend OTHER PEOPLES MONEY which they themselves haven't earned.

Hmm what do bankers do ? why should my tax bail them out?

[thelyran]

Gilly and brainfreeze,
Let's forget this...it's close to 6pm in the UK,no...?
It's not worth this,I would like everyone to apologise and realise,sometimes,people print mistakes,many,instead of a simple "Excuse Me"
I erred...they defend their belief to the death...end up in skirmishes,then,soon as the personal insults rise...bang,good people get points or banned....The worst nights on these threads,is tonight and tomorrow,full-moons...Usually,UK time...
This forum,nice place to be,if you want it that way.I like the both of you...
be a shame,to loose one or more.Subtley,I implore all,just let it slide...:)

[brainfreeze]

Hmm what do bankers do ? why should my tax bail them out?

No we shouldn't have to bail them out. But not all those who seek tax haven's are bankers, right? Why should those who have worked hard and made something of themselves look after the layabout who don't give a damn and refuse to work.

"Oh there's no work" (pre-credit crunch)

"We have a position for cabbage picking"

"I'M NOT DOING THAT!"

[belial]

That argument doesn't make sense at all, Brainfreeze.

How will they determine who those that don't take drugs are, unless they drug test them?

There's nothing wrong with taking drugs.

Alchohol, Smokes, Heroin, etc.

When you harm others by stealing, stabbing, hurting other people, flaming people on forums (like you)... then that's ***HURT*** and what you said ***MAKES NO SENSE AT ALL***.

Wake up.

[brainfreeze]

This should be interesting. What is the board opinion on making dole'ers do volentary work?

For one, a lot of doctors will suddenly be signing an awful lot of sick notes!

[brainfreeze]

Yes indeed , as long as he does a good job he could stick plastic ducks up his arse for all i care. Ofc if he was a smack head he would most likely get the sack because of not showing up for work etc, tho I doubt it would be much worse if he was a smack head, i mean he's hardly doing a good job the now. People go on about drugs but isnt there like 10 bars in parliment and there all tax free.

I hate smack as it destroy's people , but keeping drugs illegal isnt helping this problem in anyway . Keeping it illegal just put's a high price on a substance that is highly addictive, and put's it in the hands of people who arn't going to check purity levels or ask for ID, surely anyone can see thats a problem.

The point im makeing is dont' judge an individual because they do drugs , judge him by what they do. Half the parliment are probably rubbered when the debate , but no one bats an eye lid about the drug called booze.

I'm all for legalising drugs. My point is, if you can't aford to look after yourself and your family, you can't afford to do drugs, and why should the state sponsor you're addiction while you stay home getting stoned - not you per se, understand?

[gilly]

There's nothing wrong with taking drugs.

Alchohol, Smokes, Heroin, etc.

When you harm others by stealing, stabbing, hurting other people, flaming people on forums (like you)... then that's ***HURT*** and what you said ***MAKES NO SENSE AT ALL***.

Wake up.

Yes, ,that's accurate, Belial, I'm well known for flaming people - not!

But I do respond when people are behaving as the puppet masters have engineered them to, by spewing forth hatred and callousness to a large portion of the society. Is that ok with you?

[brainfreeze]

Gilly and brainfreeze,
Let's forget this...it's close to 6pm in the UK,no...?
It's not worth this,I would like everyone to apologise and realise,sometimes,people print mistakes,many,instead of a simple "Excuse Me"
I erred...they defend their belief to the death...end up in skirmishes,then,soon as the personal insults rise...bang,good people get points or banned....The worst nights on these threads,is tonight and tomorrow,full-moons...Usually,UK time...
This forum,nice place to be,if you want it that way.I like the both of you...
be a shame,to loose one or more.Subtley,I implore all,just let it slide...:)

I've nothing against Gilly, she seems to have a problem with me. No problem. Me? I'm cool.

[kanz]

i would love to know what people who are all for this think it will acheive.

IMO all it will acheive is makieng some people go to desprate mesures to get some money since there benefits have been cut. Well I dunno about you , but I wouldn't give them a drug test , and I wouldn't sit there and starve to death , so you fill in the blank's.

[thelyran]

I've nothing against Gilly, she seems to have a problem with me. No problem. Me? I'm cool.

Are you "waiting for the man"...sorry about the pun,it's a drug song...I mean
your man?...if you're home alone,just go to the kitchen,scream,spit,cry...come back.Works for me.Love your avatar.I missed seeing a real picture of you,you'll have to show me privately one day...take care,my dear.

[brainfreeze]

Are you "waiting for the man"...sorry about the pun,it's a drug song...I mean
your man?...if you're home alone,just go to the kitchen,scream,spit,cry...come back.Works for me.Love your avatar.I missed seeing a real picture of you,you'll have to show me privately one day...take care,my dear.

No. My man is away, I have no passport so couldn't go with :( Am busy in the kitchen, cottage pie for the kiddies, raw dinner for me. I've texted BF to send me his fav pic of me. Will show you when he mails it. Ya godda love Blackburry, wont be too long. ;)

[thelyran]

No. My man is away, I have no passport so couldn't go with :( Am busy in the kitchen, cottage pie for the kiddies, raw dinner for me. I've texted BF to send me his fav pic of me. Will show you when he mails it. Ya godda love Blackburry, wont be too long. ;)

That's what I thought...cottage pie?...is that shephards pie with potato on top,mashed and baked crispy brown...and raw Blackberry for you...:D
Thinking the kids have it good tonight.No,don't rush for me,keep it to Monday if you like...Those videos,i told you about,are available as torrents and really worth getting into,I was bored for the first ten minutes...but after that,it gets
interesting,then the penny drops,and you get really mad...after a few thousand hours of viewing,took,5 years...but I can control it now,somewhat.

...It's like you finally realise,we are still slaves...you just end up a smarter one.:D...but if enough people know,critical point is reached.Revolution...
and hopefully bloodless.

[sedate_solution]

Look at your "taxes" as insurance premiums.
Look at benefits as "insurance payouts".
Look at the "State" as the insurance company.
Look at your "Citizenship" as the insurance contract. (including small print)


By agreeing to becoming a citizen and accepting its rules and regulations, in return you were offered some "security" and peace of mind.

Pay your premiums and you will be covered for any unforeseen incident.

Included in the policy small print, there were clauses regarding the conditions of the policy. In other words, you accepted that there could be changes to the policy; legislation and statutes that altered the rules of the State to which you were a content and happy citizen. Politicians govern, legal statutes masquerade as law, policy enforcers hand out punishment for non-compliance, etc.

This is the system.
They even TELL you this is the system ... part of it is called National INSURANCE! What do you think that implies? Your insurance premium is taxed, your policy is for some policy payout at a certain age. Insurance.

Any insurer is entitled to alter the conditions of the policy, as long as it is reasonable and can be justified by events of the time. So, for the insurer to insist on drugs tests, is not going to be deemed "unreasonable". You may argue that it is in direct contradiction of your Human Rights ... but you have not read the small print of the contract you have entered and you have not fully comprehended the quid pro quo nature of citzenship and the benefit/privilege relationship.

I "hear" and agree with your frustration, but your issue is not with me.
It's with the one who signed a contract without reading and agreeing to all of its conditions.


I don't remember agreeing to be part of this system, I was born into slavery like most of us here !

[sedate_solution]

It is not a hypothetical game, though is it - it's people being shat on from a great height as alway. And as for your not comprehending the two sides, yes you do, or you wouldn't have gone down the freeman road anyway, so please don't try to play word games with me.

You're sitting there smugly because presumably you're a freeman. Most people have absolutely no idea whatsoever about this, or the trickery with which they've been duped into becoming an entity owned by the system.

So while you're sanctimoniously preaching about people not acting like children with their arms out, you're implying that it's their own fault.

And you were clearly saying that if they don't take responsibility for themselves they can't expect anything other than to be subjected to whatever indignities the state chooses to inflict.

Well I've paid taxes most of my adult life, as does my husband, and it's not clever for you to come along and imply that we're stupid for having done so. And part of that tax we've paid, so far as I'm concerned, is to support people who can't support themselves. I don't want them to have a drug test to decide if we're going to feed them or not, and don't consider that insistance on this is treating people with due dignity.

Your comments and attitude disgust me.

Maybe a twatman, he has no humanity or understanding of humanity's plight !

[kanz]

maybe some of you alternative life style rs and survivalist should look at for some place area these globalist/nwo are not bothered about, Maybe buy greenland:D and cut a deal.

When you realize what the future has to offer you we realize thay arnt going to fuck around.You ether with it or against it.

think about this meat eaters against vegetarians theirs only ever go to be one winner there Spears and weapons ageist baskets and flowers

I resent your comment about the veggie's I for one wouldn't show up with some flowers :p

[kanz]

I'm all for legalising drugs. My point is, if you can't aford to look after yourself and your family, you can't afford to do drugs, and why should the state sponsor you're addiction while you stay home getting stoned - not you per se, understand?

Fair point.

[sedate_solution]

Why should those who don't take drugs have to be drug tested in order to pay toward the keep of those who don't work and do drugs?

Why is this even an issue, compared to EVERYTHING else the benefits comitment in the UK is SO SO SO FUCKING SMALL.

[wakeupworld]

...Brainfreeze,please get the Money Masters videos,part 1+2,Monopoly Men
Money Banking and the federal reserve,you'll find very quickly,that no one cent of peoples income tax pay for social security or civil services,but goes towards the interest of the Federal reserve,having the "Right" to print money.
Until,everyone understands the principles in these documentaries,no-one can say they understand anything with money.You're not under mind-control,but your view,unfortunately is corrpted by official lines and sources...
Sorry.

Spot on. Are there similar videos please that you know of with reference to UK Income Tax?

[thelyran]

Spot on. Are there similar videos please that you know of with reference to UK Income Tax?


I will quickly check for you now,the answer is yes...BBBBUUUTT,the English system,I think was covered on an Alex Jones TV show I have,just going to make sure,now...Honestly,I have about 3 Terabyte of documentaries,ebooks
spoken word,...and hardly read or seen them all.Including 3 Icke Books,yet to read...give me a couple of minutes...please:)


got it...Phenomenon-The lost archives,it's brilliant too,covers the Rothchilds
Waterloo and napoleon,WW1+2...and I just quickly browsed for it,
google this : 10 DVD conspiracy Torrent...this is the largest single collection on the net,thankyou for interest sir,regards Jason.

[chris_com283]

The way I see it, there is no such thing as a free lunch.

If you willingly and knowingly demand benefits and privileges, then you have to be prepared to surrender liberties and rights ... quid pro quo.

You don't want to give up rights?
Then don't agree to being a citizen and sealing a contract that states your rights can be assigned to you.
Citizens have rights assigned ... men and women have unalienable rights.

You don't want to be subjected to their rules?
Then don't expect benefits and privileges from the Nanny State.
Quid pro quo ... if you "take" then you know there is a "give" - to think otherwise is absurd and ridiculously naive.

Want to claim the rights of an adult?
Then stop acting like a spoilt child, arms out, expecting and demanding your pocket money.
Take responsibility and reclaim control and authority.
A lot of people on benefits have no choice, but not to work. They're not children and certaintly would take offense to such a term. To call them children and their beneifts that they use to LIVE on is really demeaning. Plus, some use cannabis to relieve their pain and suffering. I think I'm done with this thread.:rolleyes:

[wakeupworld]

I will quickly check for you now,the answer is yes...BBBBUUUTT,the English system,I think was covered on an Alex Jones TV show I have,just going to make sure,now...Honestly,I have about 3 Terabyte of documentaries,ebooks
spoken word,...and hardly read or seen them all.Including 3 Icke Books,yet to read...give me a couple of minutes...please:)


got it...Phenomenon-The lost archives,it's brilliant too,covers the Rothchilds
Waterloo and napoleon,WW1+2...and I just quickly browsed for it,
google this : 10 DVD conspiracy Torrent...this is the largest single collection on the net,thankyou for interest sir,regards Jason.

THANKS SO MUCH

I will follow this up, a great help. Cheers

[octopusrex]

Great!

More dealers on the streets!

[shodan]

Originally Posted by shodan http://www.davidicke.com/forum/images/buttons_green/viewpost.gif (http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?p=889367#post889367)
I work if thats a direct dig.

Its not free cash, for example I'm in my 30's and have paid 10's of thousands into this system, so when I find myself in between jobs, I'm quite happy to claw a fraction of it back. I'm the norm in this respect.

Did you miss my career dole'er comment? Selective reading?


Instead of incorrectly tarring everyone with the same brush, we could talk like adults instead of throwing insults.

Ok, but that does seem to be the council estate mantra brought to you by Frank Gallagher, wondeer where the producers got the idea for that show? Oh yes "them"


you call it a bit of an imbalance, I call it total economic meltdown with millions joining the dole queues. In America its Tent cities.

Ok

there's no doubt there's people on the dole that shouldn't be, but it isn't anywhere near the scale you've been led to believe, and I think your days of gloating won't last long as this is going to affect every last person, unless you are a multi-trillionaire
I must have imagined all those unemployed I lived amongst. Maybe I am mind controlled. I like to think I'm not. I simply have a good work ethic.

Did you miss my career dole'er comment? Selective reading?no, I saw your generalisation about MOST people on the dole

Ok, but that does seem to be the council estate mantra brought to you by Frank Gallagher, wondeer where the producers got the idea for that show? Oh yes "them"I just googled Frank Gallagher (I have no TV feed and dont watch it). My comment was about your condemnation of a huge section of society. I can't comment on FRANK/shameless, other than from what I've seen it seems to be glorifying alcaholsim. Either way its irrelevant to this conversation.

I must have imagined all those unemployed I lived amongst. Maybe I am mind controlled. I like to think I'm not. I simply have a good work ethic.
I ferry 'job seekers' about every day. I meet hundreds of them and know a substantial number of them well. The majority would love to be earning a wage. a tiny fraction are so far gone they are as you describe them, they still need help and understanding though, not piss tests.
Did you talk to the unemployed you lived amongst? find out how they ended up their current situation? did you feel any understanding or compassion or was it contempt?

the media and government have steadily brainwashed (some, not all) people into believing most people on the dole are worthless junkies. Preposterous!

I don't think your mind controlled, I think you have an inbuilt snobbery similar to one I used to have (and still rears its ugly head from time to tme, the conditioning is deep).
This snobbery was drilled into me by friends/TV and a very privelledged elitist education I had as a teenager. I don't know if you can relate to that?

[brainfreeze]

no, I saw your generalisation about MOST people on the dole

I just googled Frank Gallagher (I have no TV feed and dont watch it). My comment was about your condemnation of a huge section of society. I can't comment on FRANK/shameless, other than from what I've seen it seems to be glorifying alcaholsim. Either way its irrelevant to this conversation.

I ferry 'job seekers' about every day. I meet hundreds of them and know a substantial number of them well. The majority would love to be earning a wage. a tiny fraction are so far gone they are as you describe them, they still need help and understanding though, not piss tests.
Did you talk to the unemployed you lived amongst? find out how they ended up their current situation? did you feel any understanding or compassion or was it contempt?

the media and government have steadily brainwashed (some, not all) people into believing most people on the dole are worthless junkies. Preposterous!

I don't think your mind controlled, I think you have an inbuilt snobbery similar to one I used to have (and still rears its ugly head from time to tme, the conditioning is deep).
This snobbery was drilled into me by friends/TV and a very privelledged elitist education I had as a teenager. I don't know if you can relate to that?

Snobbery?

I guess you missed the part where I said I'm from the wrong side of the tracks. Raised in a children's home until I was old enough for my father to fuck, that's when I was given back to him. I got the hell out at 16. I have worked hard all my adult life, and when things got really bad, instead of coping out I whored myself out so as not to be another council estate statistic. If that's what you call snobbery, then that's me!

[shodan]

Snobbery?

I guess you missed the part where I said I'm from the wrong side of the tracks. Raised in a children's home until I was old enough for my father to fuck, that's when I was given back to him. I got the hell out at 16. I have worked hard all my adult life, and when things got really bad, instead of coping out I whored myself out so as not to be another council estate statistic. If that's what you call snobbery, then that's me!

Sorry - yes I have read your history on other threads, I was trying to help. I do see snobbery towards people on the dole in your posts, a snobbery I'm familiar with, I was trying to empathise and reason it out with you.

[rhydra]

They are really working on alienating people as much as possible...

From the original link.

Drug testing is not the only restriction envisioned for people receiving public assistance: a bill in the Tennessee Legislature would cap lottery winnings for recipients at $600.

I'm glad I'm not living in the US, it seems that only those with a good disposable income and are in work are treated as citizens. American Citizen? Not if you are unemployed. Who would want to be a citizen of a country which treated people like that? Getting a bit like that here, there needs to be an easy way of officially ditching your citizenship and renouncing your loyalty.

[brainfreeze]

Sorry - yes I have read your history on other threads, I was trying to help. I do see snobbery towards people on the dole in your posts, a snobbery I'm familiar with, I was trying to empathise and reason it out with you.

I don't see it as snobbery, but I don't sympathise. Life is hard. No one owes us anything.

[shodan]

I don't see it as snobbery, but I don't sympathise. Life is hard. No one owes us anything.

LIfe is hard because a lot of tax and planning goes towards war and making life as hard as possible for as many people as possible. nobody's asking for sympathy, just less contempt which solves nothing. And our money back now that we've found out what the people in power are really all about.

[thelyran]

LIfe is hard because a lot of tax and planning goes towards war and making life as hard as possible for as many people as possible. nobody's asking for sympathy, just less contempt which solves nothing. And our money back now that we've found out what the people in power are really all about.

Excellent point...all that money on defence...could've irrigated deserts and wastelands,providing abundance...beat those rifles into plough-shares.The common people don't want to fight and kill,war,is the only thing that makes me quake in the boots,nothing else is more grizzly,mentally and soul destructive,than that final act...rather than upset my view of the creator...
I'll take the white feather or be killed.Some views are so hard to change Shodan,because after great trauma,one clings to tiny fragments of reality,just to maintain some semblance of sanity.When the healing comes for those who need it,old views will fall away,hopefully,look back and think,"Oh,Silly me"...at the moment,that will be hard to achieve...Great you over came your privilidges back ground,you would've been the kind to spit on me...while I laughed at you killing yourself over interest rates...hahahaha:D
Take care sir...regards Jason.

[shodan]

Excellent point...all that money on defence...could've irrigated deserts and wastelands,providing abundance...beat those rifles into plough-shares.The common people don't want to fight and kill,war,is the only thing that makes me quake in the boots,nothing else is more grizzly,mentally and soul destructive,than that final act...rather than upset my view of the creator...

indeed, and protecting the rain forests.

and the ultimate kick in the teeth - the architects of war send everybody elses children instead of their own to be killed, dismembered and driven insane.

take care dude :)

Ok, here's the threads original post and link to article to get things back on topic - the compulsory drug testing of people out of work

another of those proposals when you read them you think WTF


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090326/...e_with_strings (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090326/ap_on_bi_ge/states_welfare_with_strings)

[thelyran]

indeed, and protecting the rain forests.

and the ultimate kick in the teeth - the architects of war send everybody elses children instead of their own to be killed, dismembered and driven insane.

take care dude :)

Ok, here's the threads original post and link to article to get things back on topic - the compulsory drug testing of people out of work

...only one exception,Stalin,but he upheld the protocols of his version of communism higher than the life of his own son.

...can understand drug testing in the work place,only,when it involves issues
of safety,or the safety and lives of other people.

Drug testing the unemployed is ridiculous,a waste of public money,time and infrastructure.Causes higher states of mistrust,between people and officials
...just not on generally.Thanyou again Shodan,good debating.:)

[steppewar]

Are the government going to test you if you are a lazy fucker that hasn't worked for 15 years and just sit's on his arse drinking cheap homebrew watching the TV all day and night?

No.

Ah, that's a relief, feet up, back to the Jeremy Kyle show and sip some cheap home made wine then.

[gilly]

Are the government going to test you if you are a lazy fucker that hasn't worked for 15 years and just sit's on his arse drinking cheap homebrew watching the TV all day and night?

No.

Ah, that's a relief, feet up, back to the Jeremy Kyle show and sip some cheap home made wine then.

Well frankly Stepp, if that's meant to rile anone up, it doesn't work with me. I see nothing wrong with stepping out of the rat race and enjoying simple pleasures (not quite as simple as Jeremy Kyle though, in an ideal world :D) if you're able to.

[steppewar]

Well frankly Stepp, if that's meant to rile anone up, it doesn't work with me. I see nothing wrong with stepping out of the rat race and enjoying simple pleasures (not quite as simple as Jeremy Kyle though, in an ideal world :D) if you're able to.

To be honest I only watch the Jeremy Kyle show when I'm too pissed to concentrate to watch one of my pre recorded TV programs, on either one of my 2 top range state funded Panasonic DVD HDD Freeview recorders.

[tien an]

British soldiers on LSD
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NK3xFYjM1Cg

Oh thanks for that; I needed a laugh...'kin hilarious!

[tien an]

I remember a time (in the distant past) when I realized I'd never been unemployed...ever, and was proud of the fact.
Then I became unemployed (so degrading at the Jobcentre, no matter which country - I've claimed in three in Europe), and was thankful that I'd only been unemployed for six months...and resolved to keep it that way.

Cutting a long story short, I am now missing about 25% of the necessary contributions to receive a 'full' pension (as if that will materialize!), although I'm only 66% through my working life.
At one stage I was unemployed for over a year.
I have an HND.
I speak four languages, three of them fluently.
I have two forklift licences.
I have a driving licence.

...but it's difficult competing with an influx of Eastern European workers that defies logic and very deifinitely had / is having an effect on the chances of a British person finding employment.

I've even tried commuting 45mins each way to a job (just to stay away from the jobcentre), that brought in, after fuel costs, a little over £100 / week.
I'm still paying for that folly.

What if, during this time, the proposed tests had been mandatory?
What if, during this time, a friend, knowing that I was a bit depressed, invited me over for dinner, which included a spliff or two afterward...(it doesn't matter if it's that or alcohol ~ they can easily add that drug to the test too), would it then be justified (proponents of this idea), to cut or stop my benefits?
(Benefits, I hasten to add, that I have paid for in advance...it doesn't matter if the govt. don't actually spend your tax on benefits...they let you believe it's what you pay them for.)


I too come from a rather smelly part of town, and have moved out (very far away in fact) and have witnessed those who make a living from benefits.
They are very, very much in the minority.
In fact most working-class people I know have a very good work ethic (they detest going to work, but are too proud to not go...).

I understand the frustrations of those who are in favour of testing, but there has to be another way of stopping them than this.
This idea is inhuman.
It's the wrong solution to a relatively small problem.

[gilly]

Just posting so I can get on back page - I want to know if this ia April Fool, or bloody Worm.

[eternal_spirit]

Just posting so I can get on back page - I want to know if this ia April Fool, or bloody Worm.
Start a thread asking what happened?

What will happen to true addicts who can't stop taking drugs? Will they be forced into a re hab programme?

No way will they let them roam the streets in search of food from litter bins (fighting with pidgeons for a piece of Bic Mac) The mugging people for cash for their next fix!

[brainfreeze]

I asked about volentary work in exchange for the dole, but that was ignored. :confused:

But, pretty much what I expected.

[eternal_spirit]

I asked about volentary work in exchange for the dole, but that was ignored. :confused:

But, pretty much what I expected.

They used to promote voluntary work a few years ago and training schemes. Kind of leaflets you'd get handed at a Job centre interview, or asked - "Have you considered voluntary work or a training scheme?"

Answer to unemployment and how to boost the economy? It's easy! Grow 1000's of acres of hemp aka cannabis. (like they used to many moons ago in England and America)

Cannabis has 100's of different uses including alternative environmentaly friendly uses.

This would give some of the addicts a job, all those lazy dope smokers would jump at the chance to work on a cannabis farm.

It's the only answer!

[brainfreeze]

They used to promote voluntary work a few years ago and training schemes. Kind of leaflets you'd get handed at a Job centre interview, or asked - "Have you considered voluntary work or a training scheme?"

Answer to unemployment and how to boost the economy? It's easy! Grow 1000's of acres of hemp aka cannabis. (like they used to many moons ago in England and America)

Cannabis has 100's of different uses including alternative environmentaly friendly uses.

This would give some of the addicts a job, all those lazy dope smokers would jump at the chance to work on a cannabis farm.

It's the only answer!


This I agree with. Unfortunately too few who own far too much have too much to lose if this was permitted.

Globalisation is here to stay unfortunately, I don't see a world wide revolution over turning it any time soon either. Remember Banksy's "pledging allegences to the Tesco flag"? It's still on the pharmacy wall, though Tescos tried painting their bag from it. We're pushing the small businesses out and cutting our own throats.

Then there is the other side of the coin. Who wants to pick cabbages at minimum wage, or pick cockles even?

[brainfreeze]

what?

No takers for cabbage picking? :eek:

Fuck the credit crunch over already? Or just not that bad yet?

[cleopatraxxx]

I use to run my own business in South Africa. I'd rather have someone who has their witts about them earning their crust than to take on a druggy who may fuck up regularly, costing ME money in the long run. It's as simple as that. I come from the wrong side of the tracks. I don't blame anyone for my failures, I don't accredit them with my successes either. I knew if I wanted to claw my way out of the gutter I would need to stay drug free and work fucking hard to achieve.


I agree that our body is ours, but excess of drugs we know very well where it leads somebody: trash way. just smoking weed can be the begining of later stages of cocaine sniffing AND SIMILAR, SO I DON'T AGREE WITH USE OF DRUGS TO GET HIGH. one can get HIGH from ENJOYING GOOD MUSIC WITHOUT MUSHROOMS in the BODY> one needs to learn how to get high by inhaling fresh air in the woods and appreciate a good tasty natural fruit juice!!!!!! and one can meditate and "talk to animals" and feel their emotions and enjoy life by helping animals out. Nothing better than that as a life experience.

Drugs fuck up your brain. make you hallucinate and that is GOOD????
stuff it, and yes

at work we need people who are able to enjoy life without being stressed that they didn;t smoke that joint in the morning and bring bad moods in the working area plus cost the employer money and time by being useless.

The mind degrades with time, depends on the chemical of the joint or cocaine, alcohol in excess too! so the bad moods kick in making the brain ask for more dependency. IS THAT LIFE???!!!! what was the brain given to the body for? to function fully. and we know it doesn't already without the drugs! on top of that, drugs make us react similar to machines who depend on batteries. when the batteries are gone the machine struggles and then stops working completely.

everybody i met who smoked little or almost no weed are now dependent, have no work, have no life and are lost. they can't feed their kids, have no love life and feel miserable. who is to blame? the guy who came to sell it to you??? i don't think so. you must have to have your own head to think and decide.

it is a choice: you either want to live or you don't. and i am not about just money, but simply help others. don't live ONLY TO/FOR YOURSELF. MAKE SOME ONE'S LIFE BETTER!!!!!! the big part of the "evolved" countries populations forgot about living for others. they only live for themselves, and that is why we are all in this mess right now.

SELFISH PEOPLE TO BLAME.

the system pushes also their own agenda and drug consumption is not excluded, but i keep seeing empty heads watching "big brother" and empty of intelligent content soap operas and stupid manipulating TV! it is a choice to sit and watch crap or get out, move your ass and make something good with your family, kids, neighbours and ANIMALS! so many need shelter, happy homes. can a junkie have a dog or cat living a healthy life with them????!!!! that is how I got my cat: some junkie wanted to drown the kittens! please give me an example of drug addicts who can maintain another living being... they can’t do it to themselves for long...can they?


THNX

[mikethepunk]

I agree 100% with this. How many companies randomly drug test their employees? Yes, people who contribute to the dole are subjected to these tests, so why not those who want to benefit from it, is my view.

Your view is wrong!
Testing people for drugs because they are poor is no reason at all to test them. It would also cost about 100 dollars per test and that is without the govt mark up.

I bet you are also one of those people that believe in the drug war and pot prohibition.

Some jobs should be tested for drugs when their is heavy machinery or people's lives at stake. If you have your panties in a wad over drug testing at your work, then dont work there. I refuse to work anywhere that drug tests. Your view is so flawed and closed minded. Closed minds have no place in the truth movement.

[mikethepunk]

I agree that our body is ours, but excess of drugs we know very well where it leads somebody: trash way. just smoking weed can be the begining of later stages of cocaine sniffing AND SIMILAR, SO I DON'T AGREE WITH USE OF DRUGS TO GET HIGH. one can get HIGH from ENJOYING GOOD MUSIC WITHOUT MUSHROOMS in the BODY> one needs to learn how to get high by inhaling fresh air in the woods and appreciate a good tasty natural fruit juice!!!!!! and one can meditate and "talk to animals" and feel their emotions and enjoy life by helping animals out. Nothing better than that as a life experience.

Drugs fuck up your brain. make you hallucinate and that is GOOD????
stuff it, and yes

at work we need people who are able to enjoy life without being stressed that they didn;t smoke that joint in the morning and bring bad moods in the working area plus cost the employer money and time by being useless.

The mind degrades with time, depends on the chemical of the joint or cocaine, alcohol in excess too! so the bad moods kick in making the brain ask for more dependency. IS THAT LIFE???!!!! what was the brain given to the body for? to function fully. and we know it doesn't already without the drugs! on top of that, drugs make us react similar to machines who depend on batteries. when the batteries are gone the machine struggles and then stops working completely.

everybody i met who smoked little or almost no weed are now dependent, have no work, have no life and are lost. they can't feed their kids, have no love life and feel miserable. who is to blame? the guy who came to sell it to you??? i don't think so. you must have to have your own head to think and decide.

it is a choice: you either want to live or you don't. and i am not about just money, but simply help others. don't live ONLY TO/FOR YOURSELF. MAKE SOME ONE'S LIFE BETTER!!!!!! the big part of the "evolved" countries populations forgot about living for others. they only live for themselves, and that is why we are all in this mess right now.

SELFISH PEOPLE TO BLAME.

the system pushes also their own agenda and drug consumption is not excluded, but i keep seeing empty heads watching "big brother" and empty of intelligent content soap operas and stupid manipulating TV! it is a choice to sit and watch crap or get out, move your ass and make something good with your family, kids, neighbours and ANIMALS! so many need shelter, happy homes. can a junkie have a dog or cat living a healthy life with them????!!!! that is how I got my cat: some junkie wanted to drown the kittens! please give me an example of drug addicts who can maintain another living being... they can’t do it to themselves for long...can they?


THNX

Oh but you would rather tell people what to do with their bodies then right? Fascist. That is fascism. You and Brainfreeze can start your own little anti-drug nazi group.


Both of you need to re-evaluate your thinking. You are miles away from self-realization. Fascists like you might as well just stop even pretending you are part of the truth movement, you are too filled with your own self importance and ego. Anyone that cannot see through the lies of the drug war and considers themselves a part of the truth movement is a POSER of the worst kind. As a matter of fact both of sound like you are part of the elite pretending to be truthers to make yourself feel better about your fascist views.

[batou]

please give me an example of drug addicts who can maintain another living being... they can’t do it to themselves for long...can they?


THNX


Being addicted to drugs and using drugs are two different thing

If you have a drug problem you need to sort yourself out.

Not everyone who plays the lottery is a gambling addict now are they?
Same with drugs.. any drug. Moderation is the key. It's ok to get blitzed every now and again, but don't do it every day, you have to try to do other things.

In my opinion the only people who should get drug tested are the ones calling for it, and the pigs.

[cleopatraxxx]

Oh but you would rather tell people what to do with their bodies then right? Fascist. That is fascism. You and Brainfreeze can start your own little anti-drug nazi group.


Both of you need to re-evaluate your thinking. You are miles away from self-realization. Fascists like you might as well just stop even pretending you are part of the truth movement, you are too filled with your own self importance and ego. Anyone that cannot see through the lies of the drug war and considers themselves a part of the truth movement is a POSER of the worst kind. As a matter of fact both of sound like you are part of the elite pretending to be truthers to make yourself feel better about your fascist views.

LOL, LOL
Since when loving nature, enjoying it and helping others is being a fascist? are you mad?
LOL
part of the ELITE? LOL, LOL.....hahahahahahaha...
mate you need to reread the post, think before stating stupid sentences.
SINCE WHEN HELPING OTHER PEOPLE AND ANIMALS IS FASCIST???
are you on mushrooms?

poor ignorant...

[cleopatraxxx]

Being addicted to drugs and using drugs are two different thing

If you have a drug problem you need to sort yourself out.

Not everyone who plays the lottery is a gambling addict now are they?
Same with drugs.. any drug. Moderation is the key. It's ok to get blitzed every now and again, but don't do it every day, you have to try to do other things.

In my opinion the only people who should get drug tested are the ones calling for it, and the pigs.

drugs in many countries are illegal. is that for no reason?

i agree that moderation is a way to go in life.
But to enjoy life YOU DON'T NEED DRUGS.
we were born without the need for them. and the only reason why we might go for them is the will to escape from daily routine or some sad reality. but it is in the end a selfish solution/approach. Do you SOLVE any problem by feeling high for half an hour? or excess drinking? the opposite. it can all go wrong, due to lack of rationality under the effect of drug/alcohol. sleeping is a good technique to recover your mental and physical strenght for example. the healthiest way! and to fall asleep under valium effect s not natural and in excess makes you damage your nervous system even more...
man's mind without the effect of additional crap is capable of many wonderful things. MAN hasn't got there yet. but promoting drugs and saying it is good for you.. sorry. you have kids? why don't you then give them a joint to smoke at the age of 5? if it is so good, do it! aaah... thought so.. you wouldn't! why? it is not natural and there is no need for that.

[captaincaper]

LOL, LOL
Since when loving nature, enjoying it and helping others is being a fascist? are you mad?
LOL
part of the ELITE? LOL, LOL.....hahahahahahaha...
mate you need to reread the post, think before stating stupid sentences.
SINCE WHEN HELPING OTHER PEOPLE AND ANIMALS IS FASCIST???
are you on mushrooms?

poor ignorant...


Got to be the dumbest post ive read all week, what do you think cannabis and mushrooms are if not nature being loved and enjoyed and even.......YES helping ppl..........

THICK AS SHIT

[captaincaper]

Also the ones TELLING you that this handfull of drugs are illigal.....but all these are fine (some are pure poison btw) are the same ones destroying the very nature on this planet you love so much but you lap up every word they spew out and end up condeming parts of the nature you love :confused:

[batou]

They're only drugs because someone calls them that, like the poster above said, pot grows in nature.. its a plant. They want to call some vitamin a drug!

To tell people what they can and cannot put into their body is ridiculous. I understand not being stoned when you're a crane operator, but what he does in his off time is his own business. As long as it not interfering or endangering people.

The only problem I have with drugs is the government and police make money off it. Gangs and drugs is another problem. But all that would go away if people didn't control what others put into them self.

Imagine bags of weed on the shelf next to jack daniels. People used to get killed or put in jail over whiskey too, not so long ago.

[captaincaper]

http://www.tpuc.org/content/marijuana-conspiracy

[cleopatraxxx]

Got to be the dumbest post ive read all week, what do you think cannabis and mushrooms are if not nature being loved and enjoyed and even.......YES helping ppl..........

THICK AS SHIT

yes, mushrooms are natural but so are many plants that can simply poison you to death. hallucinogenic material is not healthy is it? what for does one want to hallucinate? once may be? by accident? on purpose-what for? how mentally healthy one keeps themselves if dependent on the natural chemicals that make your mind hallucinate?

sorry, but you think your way, i think mine.
fact that i don't agree with drug intake that alters the mind with no beneficial in the end purpose for the body and spirit is my right to do so.
you can poison yourself , go on. why don't you do it to your kids? would you?

[cleopatraxxx]

They're only drugs because someone calls them that, like the poster above said, pot grows in nature.. its a plant. They want to call some vitamin a drug!

To tell people what they can and cannot put into their body is ridiculous. I understand not being stoned when you're a crane operator, but what he does in his off time is his own business. As long as it not interfering or endangering people.

The only problem I have with drugs is the government and police make money off it. Gangs and drugs is another problem. But all that would go away if people didn't control what others put into them self.

Imagine bags of weed on the shelf next to jack daniels. People used to get killed or put in jail over whiskey too, not so long ago.

well, drinks are officially available. AND how many accidents happen with people who are drunk? WHY DOES A KID OR INNOCENT PERSON HAVE TO DIE BECAUSE SOMEONE WAS IRRESPONSIBLE TO THE POINT OF DRIVING DRUNK? OR UNDER THE EFFECT OF MUSHROOM?????? WHY?
AND THAT IS WHY , IF ANYTHING IT MAYBE PERSCRIBED AS A MEDICINE????? I KNOW SOME PATIENTS TAKE CANNABIS PERSCRIBED BY DOCTORS. THAT IS DIFFERENT. some patients have to have their pressure kept up and sometimes alcohol is also a medicine.

Dumb selfish people who only live for their own benefit and do not consider that their inconsequent actions are dangerous to innocent people and even themselves is absolutely ridiculous. that is why we live in a violent society. more and more young people who are under the influence of drugs coomit suicides, crimes and murder. so should we encourage that drug intake as something good????

[brainfreeze]

Your view is wrong!
Testing people for drugs because they are poor is no reason at all to test them. It would also cost about 100 dollars per test and that is without the govt mark up.

I bet you are also one of those people that believe in the drug war and pot prohibition.

Some jobs should be tested for drugs when their is heavy machinery or people's lives at stake. If you have your panties in a wad over drug testing at your work, then dont work there. I refuse to work anywhere that drug tests. Your view is so flawed and closed minded. Closed minds have no place in the truth movement.


Pfttt...you can't even be arsed to read my views so I can't be arsed to communicate any further with you.

[brainfreeze]

Oh but you would rather tell people what to do with their bodies then right? Fascist. That is fascism. You and Brainfreeze can start your own little anti-drug nazi group.


Both of you need to re-evaluate your thinking. You are miles away from self-realization. Fascists like you might as well just stop even pretending you are part of the truth movement, you are too filled with your own self importance and ego. Anyone that cannot see through the lies of the drug war and considers themselves a part of the truth movement is a POSER of the worst kind. As a matter of fact both of sound like you are part of the elite pretending to be truthers to make yourself feel better about your fascist views.


Ummm...the truth movement as you call it is pretty darn laughable to me, just look around this site, see those on drugs and anti depressents, if by this you mean I'm not clued in like they are, then you're right, I'm not.

Zieg Heil!

[thelyran]

Ummm...the truth movement as you call it is pretty darn laughable to me, just look around this site, see those on drugs and anti depressents, if by this you mean I'm not clued in like they are, then you're right, I'm not.

Zieg Heil!

...I did'nt think you were anti-drug,BF,Mike's usually a good guy,did I miss a post,because I'm sure you were all for Marijuana legalisation,especially with the application of dope with industry.

But you certainly are right...about the anti-depressant use,even on this forum.I know alot of people here,who are not coping to well,but not at liberty to name them,as they spoke with me in confidence and will not betray their trust....I can even tell by their posting styles,when they're having an off day
and hope Mods notice that,because,well banning without understanding why.

Lonliness is a major issue here to...breaks your heart when you find out.

Mike,I think you might be wrong with BF here,I'm sure she advocated legalisation,but if I'm wrong,I'll slink back in the corner now...:(...so sad am I.
Regards Jason.

Ps,Brainfreeze,I think this is your largest thread dear,with a star rating,Ok,because of the issues raised here,and some of the information posted,whether opposing or not,I'll give it 4 star rating.:)

[sedate_solution]

well, drinks are officially available. AND how many accidents happen with people who are drunk? WHY DOES A KID OR INNOCENT PERSON HAVE TO DIE BECAUSE SOMEONE WAS IRRESPONSIBLE TO THE POINT OF DRIVING DRUNK? OR UNDER THE EFFECT OF MUSHROOM?????? WHY?
AND THAT IS WHY , IF ANYTHING IT MAYBE PERSCRIBED AS A MEDICINE????? I KNOW SOME PATIENTS TAKE CANNABIS PERSCRIBED BY DOCTORS. THAT IS DIFFERENT. some patients have to have their pressure kept up and sometimes alcohol is also a medicine.

Dumb selfish people who only live for their own benefit and do not consider that their inconsequent actions are dangerous to innocent people and even themselves is absolutely ridiculous. that is why we live in a violent society. more and more young people who are under the influence of drugs coomit suicides, crimes and murder. so should we encourage that drug intake as something good????

So it's ok if someone else with a peice of paper 'Doctorate' tell you wat to take, but if you make that decision yourself your wrong ? ! ? ! ?

Hmmm

I have smoked pot on and off for around five years, in that time i've never had the urge to go out and give someone a good beating !

Yet, here we are with alcohol being legal and most voilence in towns 'n' cities occur due to peeps being under the influence of tis substance !

[thelyran]

So it's ok if someone else with a peice of paper 'Doctorate' tell you wat to take, but if you make that decision yourself your wrong ? ! ? ! ?

Hmmm

I have smoked pot on and off for around five years, in that time i've never had the urge to go out and give someone a good beating !

Yet, here we are with alcohol being legal and most voilence in towns 'n' cities occur due to peeps being under the influence of tis substance !

...I agree with every point you made here.But,I think,when people loose a loved one,or someone close is adversely affected,people tend to lump them in one category,drugs of all kinds,that is.

...Maybe,that is what CleopatraXXX is saying,without admitting it.I just read between the lines,and noticed this pattern before.Regards J.

[sedate_solution]

...I agree with every point you made here.But,I think,when people loose a loved one,or someone close is adversely affected,people tend to lump them in one category,drugs of all kinds,that is.

...Maybe,that is what CleopatraXXX is saying,without admitting it.I just read between the lines,and noticed this pattern before.Regards J.

Alot of peeps have been duped into thinking the MEDICINE is their saviour, you have your high preists of medicine preaching what is good for you and what is not. I see so many similiarities with organised religion that I now count MEDICINE as a religion !

You walk into a church and hand over responsibility for your life to a guy up in the clouds, you do the very same thing with your life when you walk into a GP's place of work !

[sedate_solution]

MEDICINE, is only concerned with treating the symptoms and in doin' so creates more health problems.

Why hand resposibility for your life over to another as with what happens when you walk into a General Practice, notice that word 'practice', they havn't a clue really !

[thelyran]

Alot of peeps have been duped into thinking the MEDICINE is their saviour, you have your high preists of medicine preaching what is good for you and what is not. I see so many similiarities with organised religion that I now count MEDICINE as a religion !

You walk into a church and hand over responsibility for your life to a guy up in the clouds, you do the very same thing with your life when you walk into a GP's place of work !

...Quite true,I suffered bad pains for years,only codeine helps,but the quacks
are unsympathetic,always nurturing the virtues of Ibuprufen or paracetemol
that's insoluable and blocks up your Liver and Kidneys.Where,codeine passes
straight through,after giving me a cozy brown high for 16 hours.

I have to travel 300kms,to see a junkie doctor,who caters for the needs of
said population,in Mayfield,Newcastle NSW,even though I collect a pension,for a series of ailments.

I asked to be prescribed medical marijuana,which the federal government,is flirting with the uses of in industry and medical treatment now...but no,the
local quacks are under the belief,that it contributes to schizophrenia,even
though,the last state premiere,Bob Carr,nearly legalized dope,to treat mental
dis-orders,including schizophrenia.

...Does the medical industry,even consider,that mental health problems were
already existant in the patient,before the marijuana,no...what I hate about
the medical industry,is the propaganda associated with it...Jase.:)

[hawk]

I know a gilr right now who lives next dorr to me,she has done drugs all her life.Now she is on welfare, thank god there are no children because she knows shes so fucked up she can't even take care of herself. I think they should drug test her. She's already on probation and her probation officer just told me yesterday that she just did a piss test on Friday.She thinks she's beating the system becuz she has a prescription for those marijuana pills from one a of her many doctors that she constantly sees. I say test her, What she doesn't realize is that she is already fucked and its just a matter of time before she winds back up in prison again, possible doing a year or more. I say its her own damn fault and personally she brought it on herself.

[sedate_solution]

...Quite true,I suffered bad pains for years,only codeine helps,but the quacks
are unsympathetic,always nurturing the virtues of Ibuprufen or paracetemol
that's insoluable and blocks up your Liver and Kidneys.Where,codeine passes
straight through,after giving me a cozy brown high for 16 hours.

I have to travel 300kms,to see a junkie doctor,who caters for the needs of
said population,in Mayfield,Newcastle NSW,even though I collect a pension,for a series of ailments.

I asked to be prescribed medical marijuana,which the federal government,is flirting with the uses of in industry and medical treatment now...but no,the
local quacks are under the belief,that it contributes to schizophrenia,even
though,the last state premiere,Bob Carr,nearly legalized dope,to treat mental
dis-orders,including schizophrenia.

...Does the medical industry,even consider,that mental health problems were
already existant in the patient,before the marijuana,no...what I hate about
the medical industry,is the propaganda associated with it...Jase.:)

Aye, I had a breakdown many moons ago and I never touch any 'illegal substance'. Since then I have tried a few and I feel much better for it, yet when you mention this to a quack as you so elligantly put it, they take it as the cause of your problems.

Hold on a minute, my problems began before I ever touched such substances. It's classic TWATISM that is pervasive throughout our society right this moment !

[sedate_solution]

I know a gilr right now who lives next dorr to me,she has done drugs all her life.Now she is on welfare, thank god there are no children because she knows shes so fucked up she can't even take care of herself. I think they should drug test her. She's already on probation and her probation officer just told me yesterday that she just did a piss test on Friday.She thinks she's beating the system becuz she has a prescription for those marijuana pills from one a of her many doctors that she constantly sees. I say test her, What she doesn't realize is that she is already fucked and its just a matter of time before she winds back up in prison again, possible doing a year or more. I say its her own damn fault and personally she brought it on herself.

I think that if you looked at her life problems as a WHOLE, you will find it's not the substances she's abusing but a much more deeper seated problem within her !

Her substance abuse is a symptom !

[thelyran]

Aye, I had a breakdown many moons ago and I never touch any 'illegal substance'. Since then I have tried a few and I feel much better for it, yet when you mention this to a quack as you so elligantly put it, they take it as the cause of your problems.

Hold on a minute, my problems began before I ever touched such substances. It's classic TWATISM that is pervasive throughout our society right this moment !

hahahahahahaha....you got it.Twatism,should become recognised by the oxford dictionary:D

[thelyran]

I think that if you looked at her life problems as a WHOLE, you will find it's not the substances she's abusing but a much more deeper seated problem within her !

Her substance abuse is a symptom !

Damn,I was going to say that,well put.May I add for example,say daddies drunken late night visits,when she was a girl,under his roof.Usually,with 8/10
of females,this is the the origin,the cause and the affect.

[hawk]

Her drug problem she could get help with,but she refuses to,and in this state you can be involuntarily committed if you are proven to be a danger to yourself or others around you. This girl's family had been into drugs all of them. I have no sympathy for her becuz she did this to herself. She does not want to get help. If she did get help, they could not detox her for the simple fact that she has so many health problems now that in detox it could actually kill her while she is detoxing. She is diabetic, she has heart problems an d she is disabled due to being shot in her left shoulder.
And all this is a result of her lifestyle.
Sorry, but I but I don't condone it and i still feel as though she brought this on herself due to the way she lives.
And she is only 43 yrs old.

[sedate_solution]

Her drug problem she could get help with,but she refuses to,and in this state you can be involuntarily committed if you are proven to be a danger to yourself or others around you. This girl's family had been into drugs all of them. I have no sympathy for her becuz she did this to herself. She does not want to get help. If she did get help, they could not detox her for the simple fact that she has so many health problems now that in detox it could actually kill her while she is detoxing. She is diabetic, she has heart problems an d she is disabled due to being shot in her left shoulder.
And all this is a result of her lifestyle.
Sorry, but I but I don't condone it and i still feel as though she brought this on herself due to the way she lives.
And she is only 43 yrs old.


If you get run over by a bus later on today, I have no sympathy for you or your family because you chose to cross the road !

[hawk]

If I get run over by a bus, its my own damn fault.

[thelyran]

Her drug problem she could get help with,but she refuses to,and in this state you can be involuntarily committed if you are proven to be a danger to yourself or others around you. This girl's family had been into drugs all of them. I have no sympathy for her becuz she did this to herself. She does not want to get help. If she did get help, they could not detox her for the simple fact that she has so many health problems now that in detox it could actually kill her while she is detoxing. She is diabetic, she has heart problems an d she is disabled due to being shot in her left shoulder.
And all this is a result of her lifestyle.
Sorry, but I but I don't condone it and i still feel as though she brought this on herself due to the way she lives.
And she is only 43 yrs old.

...shit,she's not Australian and her name is Sandra?...I know her,once a very
attractive brunette,now died blonde,from the Central Coast NSW?...shot
making a get away on a motor cycle?...hmmm,if so,small world

[sedate_solution]

If I get run over by a bus, its my own damn fault.

So on that point, if a child gets abducted from it's local place of play. It's the childs fault for being there in the first place !

[hawk]

Don't give me that play of words.That's different and you know it.
A child is a different matter, an adult is responsible for themselves. Its the price we pay for being called an adult.
If you want o be treated like an adult, then start acting like one, if not then act like a child,and you will be treated as such.
People are responsible for themselves becuz in the long run, we know we cannot all save the entire planet.It takes more than one person.I cannot help her becuz she refuses to get help,and believe me, I've tried but the state does not care.They are all just waiting for her to drop into a diabetic coma one day and never wake up.
So don't give me your save her and get her help bullshit becuz its not her fault. It's her fault when she puts those pills in her mouth every single day. Nobody forces her to do it, she does it on her own. And frankly,I'm tired of trying to help her, so I just quit and gave up.She wore me down. She's a scam artist and she knows it and the local welfare offices know it too.The law knows it,but nobody cares becuz she is so far gone its just a matter of time before somebody finds her dead.

[sedate_solution]

Don't give me that play of words.That's different and you know it.
A child is a different matter, an adult is responsible for themselves. Its the price we pay for being called an adult.
If you want o be treated like an adult, then start acting like one, if not then act like a child,and you will be treated as such.
People are responsible for themselves becuz in the long run, we know we cannot all save the entire planet.It takes more than one person.I cannot help her becuz she refuses to get help,and believe me, I've tried but the state does not care.They are all just waiting for her to drop into a diabetic coma one day and never wake up.
So don't give me your save her and get her help bullshit becuz its not her fault. It's her fault when she puts those pills in her mouth every single day. Nobody forces her to do it, she does it on her own. And frankly,I'm tired of trying to help her, so I just quit and gave up.She wore me down. She's a scam artist and she knows it and the local welfare offices know it too.The law knows it,but nobody cares becuz she is so far gone its just a matter of time before somebody finds her dead.

Classic case of division, It's all the same. Shit happens, it's how you deal with it that matters !

I notice that you have not said one good thing about this woman, where is your humanity.

Perhaps your perception of this woman has a part to play in all this !

[thelyran]

Classic case of division, It's all the same. Shit happens, it's how you deal with it that matters !

I notice that you have not said one good thing about this woman, where is your humanity.

Perhaps your perception of this woman has a part to play in all this !

...the birdy flew away,come back another day:D

[sedate_solution]

...the birdy flew away,come back another day:d

hehehe

[thelyran]

hehehe

you know,people who concentrate on others they don't like,really have little
to get on by themselves.To me they are the rumour mongers,my most dreaded type of neighbour.I have'nt spoke to any of my new neighbours,in a year and a half,so they make up stories,to satisfy their curiosity...what fucks them,is my kids are angelic,beautiful and loving.Have good reputations at
school,without the aid of the moronic community.
...People should mind their own business and concentrate on their own glass
houses...they might not like what they see about themselves...
But still,glad you liked my joke...ta!:D

[bulletproofheart]

The best way to do drugs is in a glamouous way,unless you have rich friends who can get you stuff don't bother!

Kate Moss had the right idea,and she always looked great while doing it.

[hawk]

People make choices in their lives so don't give me the bullshit that you're not responsible for your problems. I don't live my life just to please others, and if this girl has a problem, then its her own fault, I have tried and tried to get her help but it falls on deaf ears. Nobody cares, so I just look at it this way. She's killing herself and one day it's going to catch up to her. But the point is this. Should she be made to be responsible for her own actions? yes!
And if you have a problem with that, then fine, tell it to somebody who cares. I'm outta here.