Christ, Simon Magus, True Secret Doctrine

[lightgiver]

According to the latest research being conducted by certain New Testament scholars, Jesus Christ and his consort Mary Magdalene had been practicing sex magick, or sacred sexuality rituals. It is believed that Mary herself had initiated Christ into a sex magick order. The book The Templar Revelation by Lynn Pickett and Clive Prince meticulously goes over the latest findings to make a very good case for this theory. It is well known in most occult circles that the archetype of Jesus Christ - the dead and risen God - is the same archetype as Osiris from Egypt.

Every culture has a mythological figure that represents the dying of the worldly ego and the rebirth of a higher stage of consciousness. Christ was well aware of this. Having spent much time in Alexandria he was extremely aware of the myth of Osiris. It is believed that Christ went out of his way to emulate the Egyptian God Osiris, to the extent of actually having himself crucified so that he could experience a near- physical death and live out the myth of the dead and risen God. What is left out of the Bible is that Christ needed a female consort to complete the myth. Osiris had his Isis, Shiva had his Shakti, and Christ had his Magdalene.

In the myth of Osiris, the God is cut to pieces by Set. Yet, Isis manages to scrape up all of his parts and glue them back together, except for his penis, which in some versions of the story has been eaten by a fish. Nevertheless, magickally, Isis is able to impregnate herself with this emasculated corpse, and gives birth to their son, the "Crowned and Conquering Child" Horus, who eventually avenges his fathers death. The key to this birth or rebirth is sex! It is believed that in Egypt sex had been used as a sacrament and a religious rite for centuries.

Picknett and Prince write:

“Some of the most sacred ancient Egyptian rites were sexual - for example, a daily religious observance on the part of the Pharaoh and his consort that involved him being masturbated by her. This was a symbolic re-enactment of the god Ptah’s creation of the universe, which he effected by similar means. Religious imagery in palaces and temples unequivocally depicted this act…”

A contemporary of Jesus Christ was Simon Magus. Simon had been accused of holding blasphemous sexual rites and practicing sorcery. As Osiris had his Isis and Jesus his Mary, Simon had Helen. Simon Magus had been known as a sorcerer and a sex magician, and was seen as representing the satanic opposite of Christ.

But according to Picknett and Prince:

“Simon Magus and Jesus were, as far as the early Church was concerned, dangerously alike in their teaching, which is why Simon was accused of having tried to steal the Christians’ knowledge. This is tacit admission that his own teaching was, in fact, compatible with that of Jesus-even that he was part of the same movement.

The implications of this are disturbing. Were the sexual rites of Simon and Helen for example, also practiced by Jesus and Mary Magdalene? According to Epiphanius, the Gnostics had a book called the Great Questions of Mary, which purported to be the inner secrets of the Jesus movement and which took the form of ‘obscene’ ceremonies.”

As contemporaries and as rival cult leaders, I think it’s pretty obvious that what one man knew, so did the other! This is the secret doctrine that was passed onto what later became the Knights Templar, then the Rosicrucians, the Freemasons, and later the O.T.O."

Crowley has hinted in many of his publications that he held the real secrets of Christ. The pre-Church Gnostics were revered by Crowley as carriers of the true secrets of Jesus Christ. In one of Crowley’s most important publications, The Equinox of the Gods he writes:

“Refuse the Law, you put yourself beyond its pale. It is the Law that Jesus Christ, or rather the Gnostic tradition of which the Christ-legend is a degradation, attempted to teach; but nearly every word he said was misinterpreted and garbled by his enemies, particularly by those who called themselves his disciples.”

But Crowley knew the real Law of Christ. The Templars knew, the Masons knew and the Rosicrucians knew. The way to true enlightenment was also the way to life. Sex is the basis of all things. The uniting of opposites is the secret of the world: God and Beast, Lingam and Yoni, Good and Evil, Creation and Destruction.

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/cienciareal/cienciareal16.htm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0usNNDsQsI

[1977]

This is true, but even though the page you linked mentions it, you didn't actually say what the big friggin' sex magic secret is!

Thankfully, this page goes over it: http://cannonfire.blogspot.com/2008/03/sex-magick-of-jesus-christ.html

The Greater Questions portrays Jesus as taking Mary up to "the mountain." Jesus prays with her.

Then he reaches into his side and disgorges a full-grown woman. Just like that.

Then he begins to "mingle fluids" with the woman. That means fucking.

Oh, but it gets worse...

After Jesus ejaculates into the woman, he sucks out the semen -- now thoroughly admixed with the vaginal fluids -- and consumes the concoction. Then he turns to Mary and says the only logical thing to say:

"We must act thus, so that we might live."

Now Mary (according to longstanding report) is a girl who has been around. Not easily shocked, or so you would think.

However, this tableau stuns her so much that she faints dead away.

Jesus awakens her, raises her up, and announces: "O person of little faith, why did you doubt?"

I'm not sure that doubt is what made her pass out, but the text reads the way the text reads and I cannot change it. I have no idea as to what happened to Jesus' sex partner; presumably, she disappears into a wormhole in space.

Note that our beloved Magdalene plays only an observational role in all of this. We have no indication that she and JC went on to "act thus."

Epiphanius says that the Greater Questions was a text used within a certain notorious Christian cult of his day, whose female members had several times tried to seduce him into undergoing an, er, initiation. Fortunately, the sage of Salamis resisted those hussies.

"Take, eat..."

And that, folks, is the Big Damn Secret: Felching.

And it can be confirmed that Simon Magus and his followers did do such things. For in Epiphanius, we likewise read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simonians
Epiphanius also accuses the Simonians of having "enjoined mysteries of obscenity and—to set it forth more seriously—of the sheddings of bodies, emissionum virorom, feminarum menstruorum, and that they should be gathered up for mysteries in a most filthy collection; that these were the mysteries of life, and of the most perfect gnosis."
"Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you."

[1977]

This, however, is only one sort of sex-magickal rite practiced by the various Gnostic sects. In reading the myth of Osiris it must be understood that Set was portrayed as a homosexual deity.

And in connection with this, we find that Set was actually just as instrumental as Isis in the rebirth, or "illumination" of Horus:
We surmise that it can be said that the finger of Seth lights up the eye of Horus, because it is the phallus of Seth that is thought of. Seth's phallus emits fire.

At the same time, it must be admitted that this attack on the part of Seth ultimately led to the appearance of the eye of Horus. Thus one can say: the finger or the phallus causes the eye to see or illuminates it. The familiar hieroglyph of the w431 might be an eye overflowing with moisture or light.
...
"Osiris NN, take for thee the finger of Seth, that causes the clear eye of Horus to see. Osiris NN, take for thee the clear eye of Horus, that is lighted by the tip of Seth's finger.''

Thus it can perhaps be surmised that for the Egyptians, the key to the rebirth of Horus was not simply "sex," but homosexual sex. And in the Christian Mystery-Myth, the "Kiss" of Judas is perhaps none other than a euphemism for the penetration by the phallus of Set.

And we also find these overtones in the Secret Gospel of Mark (http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/secretmark.html). Clement of Alexandria claims that this was used by the Carpocratians (possibly from "Harpocratians," "Followers of Horus"), who added explicit passages about "naked man with naked man":
But the youth, looking upon him, loved him and began to beseech him that he might be with him. And going out of the tomb, they came into the house of the youth, for he was rich. And after six days Jesus told him what to do, and in the evening the youth comes to him, wearing a linen cloth over his naked body. And he remained with him that night, for Jesus taught him the mystery of the Kingdom of God.
But the authenticity of this passage has been heavily disputed. However, there are other indicators of these practices as well, not only in the very name of one of the earliest Gnostic sects, the Sethians, but also in this highly telling passage from Hippolytus' Philosophumena (http://sacred-texts.com/gno/th1/th110.htm):
H. And they say that this theory is supported not simply by [the myth] of Rhea, but also, to put it briefly, by universal creation.

Nay, they make out that this is [even] what was said by the Word (Logos): 2
[...]
C. —“and likewise also their males, leaving the natural use of the female, burned in their lust for one another, males with males working unseemliness 3—

H. And “unseemliness,” according to them, is the First and Blessed Formless Essence, the Cause of all forms for things enformed. 4

C. —“and receiving in themselves the recompense of their Error which was meet.”

H. For in these words which Paul spake is contained, they say, the whole of their hidden and ineffable Mystery of the Blessed Bliss.

For what is promised by the [rite of the] bath 5 is nothing else, according to them, than the introduction into Unfading Bliss of him who, according to them, is washed with Living Water, and anointed with the Chrism that no tongue can declare. 6

And they say that not only the Mysteries of the Assyrians and Phrygians substantiate this teaching (logos) concerning the Blessed Nature, which is at once hidden and manifest [but also those of the Egyptians 1].

So there you have it. The Mysteries of the Kingdom of God are:

Felching
Buttsex

[thelonious]

This is the secret doctrine that was passed onto what later became the Knights Templar, then the Rosicrucians, the Freemasons, and later the O.T.O."

Crowley has hinted in many of his publications that he held the real secrets of Christ. The pre-Church Gnostics were revered by Crowley as carriers of the true secrets of Jesus Christ.

According to Crowley, he discovered it by accident. He wrote a new ritual called the Star Sapphire, that was just supposed to be a new Thelemic version of the Golden Dawn's Lesser Ritual of the Hexagram. After it was published, Theodore Reuss, founder and head of the O.T.O., showed up at Crowley's doorstep, angrily accusing him of revealing Order secrets.

Crowley replied that he had no idea what Reuss was talking about. When Reuss showed him the Star Sapphire ritual, it dawned on him.

Reuss immediately administered the IX° oath of O.T.O. on Crowley so he'd keep his mouth shut about it. Crowley, of course, wasn't really able to do this, and his writings are filled with easily interpreted hints. Further, after Crowley became the O.T.O. head, he would give the highest degrees of that Order to anyone who could guess the secret.

Both Crowley and Reuss considered this to be the true secret of Freemasonry, with all other Masonic secrets being artificial, created for the purpose of fooling the more dense among Masons.

Here is Crowley's Star Sapphire:

Let the Adept be armed with his Magick Rood [and provided with his mystic rose].

In the centre, let him give the L.V.X. signs; or if he know them, if he will and dare do them, and can keep silent about them, the signs of N.O.X. being the signs of Puer, Vir, Puella, Mulier. Omit the sign. I.R.

Then let him advance to the East and make the Holy Hexagram, saying: Pater et Mater unus deus Ararita.

Let him go round to the South, make the Holy Hexagram and say: Mater et Filius unus deus Ararita.

Let him go round to the North, make the Holy Hexagram and then say: Filia et Pater unus deus Ararita.

Let him then return to the Centre, and so to The Centre of All (making the Rosy Cross as he may know how) saying Ararita Ararita Ararita (In this the Signs shall be those of Set Triumphant and of Baphomet. Also shall Set appear in the Circle. Let him drink of the Sacrament and let him communicate the same.) Then let him say: Omnia in Duos: Duo in Unum: Unus in Nihil: Haec nec Quatuor nec Omnia nec Duo nec Unus nec Nihil Sunt.

Gloria Patri et Matri et Filio et Filiae et Spiritui Sancto externo et Spiritui Sancto interno ut erat est erit in saecula Saeculorum sex in uno per nomen Septem in uno Ararita.

Let him then repeat the signs of L.V.X. but not the signs of N.O.X.: for it is not he that shall arise in the Sign of Isis Rejoicing.


In Chapter 69 of "The Book of Lies", Crowley gives the following:

THE WAY TO SUCCEED—AND THE WAY TO
SUCK EGGS!

This is the Holy Hexagram.
Plunge from the height, O God, and interlock with
Man!

Plunge from the height, O Man, and interlock with
Beast!

The Red Triangle is the desceding tongue of grace;
the Blue Triangle is the ascending tongue of
prayer.

This Interchange, the Double Gift of Tongues, the
Word of Double Power—ABRAHADABRA!—is
the sign of the GREAT WORK, for the GREAT
WORK is accomplished in Silence.

And behold is
not that Word equal to Cheth, that is Cancer,
whose Sigil is d?

This Work also eats up itself, accomplishes its own
end, nourishes the worker, leaves no seed, is
perfect in itself.

Little children, love one another!

He then comments that the way to really understand this chapter is to meditate on the meaning of the chapter's number.....which is 69.

[lightgiver]

Cheers for the info peeps,i do enjoy getting the truth;):D

There appears more to A crowley than meets the eye.

Most people enjoy sex,so tantra is obviously obvious,a way to enlightenment.

One thing is for sure,i prefer women over men,so no butt sex for me,not even with a woman.:D:D

[marpat]

I watched a documentary on Sky TV that talked about the Gospel of Judas. One of the things mentioned is that rather than being a traitor Judas is singled out by christ in order to help him fulfil his mission by deliberately betraying him. In order to fulfil this mission Christ invites Judas to share his bed in order to be initiated. I thought it was an interesting theme.

In regard to sex magic also note that some people believe the title christ to mean 'smeared with semen'. Semen obviously being the male creative force and considered by some to be the embodiement of the logos.

I read in one of Crowleys sex magic articles that research carried out by French occultists had come to the conclusion that christ was actually practising semen eating. If people think that semen is the physical medium of the logos then I guess it could be seen why he may have done such things. Who knows for sure!!

[lightgiver]

Hi marpat,:)

yes i to saw the same one,yes who knows for sure indeed.

The Gospel of Judas is a Gnostic gospel purported to document conversations between the apostle Judas Iscariot and Jesus Christ. The document is not claimed to have been written by Judas himself, but rather by Gnostic followers of Jesus. It exists in an early fourth-century Coptic text, though it has been proposed, but not proven, that the text is a translation of an earlier Greek version. The Gospel of Judas is probably from no earlier than the second century, since it contains theology that is not represented before the second half of the second century, and since its introduction and epilogue assume the reader is familiar with the canonical Gospels. The original Coptic document has been carbon dated to AD 280, plus or minus 50 years.

According to the canonical Gospels of the New Testament, (Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John), Judas betrayed Jesus to Jerusalem's Temple authorities, which handed Jesus over to the prefect Pontius Pilate, representative of the occupying Roman Empire, for crucifixion. The Gospel of Judas, on the other hand, portrays Judas in a very different perspective than do the Gospels of the New Testament, according to a preliminary translation made in early 2006 by the National Geographic Society: the Gospel of Judas appears to interpret Judas's act not as betrayal, but rather as an act of obedience to the instructions of Jesus. This assumption is taken on the basis that Jesus required a second agent to set in motion a course of events which he had planned. In that sense Judas acted as a catalyst. The action of Judas, then, was a pivotal point which interconnected a series of simultaneous pre-orchestrated events.

This portrayal seems to conform to a notion current in some forms of Gnosticism, that the human form is a spiritual prison, and that Judas thus served Christ by helping to release Christ's spirit from its physical constraints. The action of Judas allowed him to do that which he could not do directly. The Gospel of Judas does not claim that the other disciples knew gnostic teachings. On the contrary, it asserts that the disciples had not learned the true Gospel, which Jesus taught only to Judas Iscariot.

I think the semen eating is misinterpreted,maybe more something with control of the semen to open up the chakras and so forth.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-L7cQ3BrD5U

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vw2b8wo02k

and its obvious TPTB have omitted and hidden lots of info from people.

[lightgiver]

First Man

The Nassenes imagined two elements of creation:

* The First Man (Protanthropos, Adam); the fundamental being before its differentiation into individuals (cf. Adam Kadmon).
* The Son of Man; the same being after it has been individualized into existing things and thus sunk into matter.

"The beginning of Perfection," they declared, is "the gnosis of Man, but the gnosis of God is perfected Perfection."
Three natures

All things have three natures, just as there are three churches:[8]

* Spiritual (the Elect)
* Psychic (the Called)
* Material (the Bound)

These three natures found themselves in perfection in Jesus, who spoke to each as they were able to hear.

Creation

Adam was brought forth by the Earth spontaneously; but he lay without breath, without motion, without stirring, like a statue; being made after the image of the First Man, through the agency of several Archons. In order for them to seize hold of the First Man, there was given unto Adam a soul, that through this soul the image of the First Man above might suffer and be chastened in bondage. The soul exists as both threefold, and in a unity: the spirit (or mind) of man is imprisoned in the soul (the principle of desire), and the soul in the body. All things in nature have souls, even stones, for they possess the faculty of growth, and this faculty cannot exist without a soul.

The First Man is androgynous, and devoid of sex; to enter the Kingdom of Heaven, one must "make the male and the female one and the same, so that the male not be male nor the female female."

Generation

The Nassenes strictly forbade sexual intercourse between men and women, and a lengthy text is included that seems to be related to the subject of sexual transmutation. The doctrine goes somewhat as follows:

The Mysteries of the ancient world all pertained to generation. The Lesser Mysteries pertained to the carnal, and the Greater dealt with the spiritual. The seed—sperma—contains within it the Mystery of the Logos, as it is the original cause of all things that exist. This is as Jesus spoke in the Gospel of Thomas:

He that seeketh shall find me amongst children from seven years downwards, for in the fourteenth generation, being hidden, I will manifest myself.

When the River of the Jordan—the Living Water—is made to flow downwards, be getting carnal generation, it is the way of death. When that Jordan is made to flow upwards (this is what Jesus and Joshua both facilitated), be getting spiritual rebirth, it is the way of eternal life. This is the divine bliss—hidden, and yet revealed—of that which was, is, and will be—the Kingdom of Heaven to be sought for within.

Hippolytus declares that the verses of Paul in Romans 1:27 contain the key to their whole system, which he alludes to with a great deal of innuendo:

And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet.

This "unseemly" being their Mystery of divine bliss, he states; "that heavenly, sublime, felicity, that absence of all form which is the real source of every form." And baptism applied to none save the man who was introduced into this divine bliss, being washed with the Living Water, and "anointed with the Ineffable Chrism from the Horn, like David [was], not from the flask of clay, like Saul, who was fellow citizen with an evil daemon of fleshly desire."

It is certainly possible that the Naassenes viewed homosexuality as exemplifying their concept of androgyny. Carl Jung remarked, "such a disposition should not be adjudged negative in all circumstances, in so far as it preserves the archetype of the Original Man, which a one-sided sexual being has, up to a point, lost." But as to evidence of any "unseemly" acts, Hippolytus can find none, and laments that in every way, "they are not emasculated, and yet they act as though they were."

Serpent

The serpent was honoured by the Nassenes as "the Moist Essence, and naught at all of existing things, immortal or mortal, animate or inanimate, can hold together without Him." Because, after all, "all things are subject to Him, and He is Good, and has all things in Him ... so that He distributes beauty and bloom to all that exist according to each one's nature and peculiarity, as though permeating all." G.R.S. Mead has suggested that this is in reference to the Kundalini, the "serpentine force in man."

[1977]

Haha, I actually wrote most of that Wikipedia page (admittedly, it's mostly incoherent; there was nothing there before). I mentioned in the "Emerald Tablet" thread a little while ago that this site (http://www.thealchemycode.org) does by far the best job of elucidating the system described by the Naassenes (at least, as far as I can tell). As Marpat says, it is basically premised on the idea that semen is the Logos-made-flesh.
Cheers for the info peeps,i do enjoy getting the truth;):D

There appears more to A crowley than meets the eye.

Most people enjoy sex,so tantra is obviously obvious,a way to enlightenment.

One thing is for sure,i prefer women over men,so no butt sex for me,not even with a woman.:D:D
I just get really pissed off when these pseudo-researchers and people like Dan Brown completely misrepresent Gnosticism as being some hippy drum circle shit (I have even been guilty of this sometimes). The Gnostics, and by extension the writers of the New Testament, were totally fuckin' crazy. But how do you tell someone that their saviour is really a Bukkake party?

[thelonious]

One thing is for sure,i prefer women over men,so no butt sex for me,not even with a woman.:D:D

Obviously, it is not strictly necessary to practice anal sex if one doesn't like it. Crowley himself was probably more than gay than straight, so that was just his own personal nature.

It should also be noted that Crowley and O.T.O.-type sex magicians do not consider the Elixir of Life to be just materialistic sexual fluids. They magically transmute this substance before consuming it, in much the same fashion as a priest in the Roman Church transmutes physical bread and wine into the Body and Blood of Christ. In fact, many Gnostic sex magicians believe that the sexual mass is the original one, with the bread and wine mass being a symbolic one.

Regardless, Crowley himself does not appear to have practiced sex magick until he was made a member of the O.T.O. Before that, his magical practices were based on the Adeptus Minor curriculum of the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn, which was quite frankly pretty puritanistic and Christian-based. One can appreciate Crowley without copying his personal practices, although those who wish to do so can find excellent instructions on Crowleyan sex magick in "Modern Magick" and "Modern Sex Magick" by Donald Michael Kraig.

[lightgiver]

Obviously, it is not strictly necessary to practice anal sex if one doesn't like it. Crowley himself was probably more than gay than straight, so that was just his own personal nature.

It should also be noted that Crowley and O.T.O.-type sex magicians do not consider the Elixir of Life to be just materialistic sexual fluids. They magically transmute this substance before consuming it, in much the same fashion as a priest in the Roman Church transmutes physical bread and wine into the Body and Blood of Christ. In fact, many Gnostic sex magicians believe that the sexual mass is the original one, with the bread and wine mass being a symbolic one.

Regardless, Crowley himself does not appear to have practiced sex magick until he was made a member of the O.T.O. Before that, his magical practices were based on the Adeptus Minor curriculum of the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn, which was quite frankly pretty puritanistic and Christian-based. One can appreciate Crowley without copying his personal practices, although those who wish to do so can find excellent instructions on Crowleyan sex magick in "Modern Magick" and "Modern Sex Magick" by Donald Michael Kraig.

Yes i am aware of tantra;)

http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/6928/herukaur3.jpg (http://img4.imageshack.us/my.php?image=herukaur3.jpg)

I have been trying to practice it for many years,in bewtween building houses,sometimes i feel like Milarepa.:D

I prefer Guide to Dakini land, a pure method from a pure Lineage.

The winds and drops are dissolved into the central channel and when this is achieved, one Meditates on emptiness to realise the clear light of bliss.

But prelims are needed first to gain a better understanding IE sutra.

It can be achieved quicker with a consort,but it is not necessary.:)

Faith and imagination go a long way.:)

[lightgiver]

Haha, I actually wrote most of that Wikipedia page (admittedly, it's mostly incoherent; there was nothing there before). I mentioned in the "Emerald Tablet" thread a little while ago that this site (http://www.thealchemycode.org) does by far the best job of elucidating the system described by the Naassenes (at least, as far as I can tell). As Marpat says, it is basically premised on the idea that semen is the Logos-made-flesh.

I just get really pissed off when these pseudo-researchers and people like Dan Brown completely misrepresent Gnosticism as being some hippy drum circle shit (I have even been guilty of this sometimes). The Gnostics, and by extension the writers of the New Testament, were totally fuckin' crazy. But how do you tell someone that their saviour is really a Bukkake party?

That is good info.:)

I like Gnosticism.;)

[thelonious]

Yes i am aware of tantra;)

The O.T.O. methods are not entirely Tantric though. In Tantra, the focus is normally on using sexual energy to activate the Chakras. While many O.T.O. types practice Tantra, the actual O.T.O. methods themselves consist in alchemical transsubstantiation of the sexual fluids themselves, which are then used to either charge Talismans in Ceremonial Magick, or are consumed in a magickal eucharist.

To make the whole thing even more confusing than it already is, there are actual several different groups in existence who call themselves "O.T.O.", and who use different techniques. For example, Kenneth Grant's O.T.O., which is called "Typhonian", place great emphasis on the magickal qualities of menstrual blood, whereas the mainstream "Caliphate" O.T.O. isn't interested in menstruation in the least.

[lightgiver]

The O.T.O. methods are not entirely Tantric though. In Tantra, the focus is normally on using sexual energy to activate the Chakras. While many O.T.O. types practice Tantra, the actual O.T.O. methods themselves consist in alchemical transsubstantiation of the sexual fluids themselves, which are then used to either charge Talismans in Ceremonial Magick, or are consumed in a magickal eucharist.

To make the whole thing even more confusing than it already is, there are actual several different groups in existence who call themselves "O.T.O.", and who use different techniques. For example, Kenneth Grant's O.T.O., which is called "Typhonian", place great emphasis on the magickal qualities of menstrual blood, whereas the mainstream "Caliphate" O.T.O. isn't interested in menstruation in the least.

Yes it can make things confusing.

I feel its better to stick with the pure methods as it is for the benefit of all,when people start adding and taking things away,the very essence is then being missed,but thanks for the info.:)

But each to their own,what ever turns one on.

I think all these occultism places got their knowledge from the pure lineages in the 1st place;)

[lightgiver]

TBH i tread with caution with all esoteric teachings,I for one do not fancy being led up the garden path so to speak from any demonic influences.

I prefer to try and live a godly life or good life and keep things simple:)

Satan works in many devious ways.

[1977]

Both Crowley and Reuss considered this to be the true secret of Freemasonry, with all other Masonic secrets being artificial, created for the purpose of fooling the more dense among Masons.
From what I can understand, between what you and certain other Fellows of the Craft here have said (with varying levels of obscurity) you seem more than willing to have us believe that the Masons are little more than a lot of very dirty old men. I am not quite sure what to make of that, but rest assured that not everyone here has idly overlooked these statements.

[thelonious]

From what I can understand, between what you and certain other Fellows of the Craft here have said (with varying levels of obscurity) you seem more than willing to have us believe that the Masons are little more than a lot of very dirty old men. I am not quite sure what to make of that, but rest assured that not everyone here has idly overlooked these statements.

I realize all this is confusing for non-Masons, since it's pretty damn confusing for Masons too, so I'll try to summarize it in a nutshell.

As I mentioned, Crowley and Reuss believed that the sexual eucharist was the true secret of Freemasonry. However, neither one of them believed that Masons knew anything about it. According to their theory, the secret is hidden in symbols, which leads to another confusing item:

Freemasonry doesn't teach "openly". In other words, when you become a Mason, nobody sits you down and says "OK, here's the secrets...." Instead, Freemasonry teaches through a series of archaic initiation ceremoies, where various groups of symbols are shown to the candidate in a particular order. The Mason then must interpret it all himself.

Now according to Crowley, the biggest problem with Freemasonry is that there aren't any Masons who know or understand the secret. They are just a club performing rituals once in a while that none of them understand. This was one of the reasons that Crowley decided to devote his time and efforts to the O.T.O. instead: he thought Masonry was hopeless.

Regardless, I also want to comment on your "dirty old man" statement. For the Sexual Gnostics, sex is holy, not "dirty". In the sex act, according to their theology, one participates in the mysterious forces of creation, which were unleashed at the moment of the Big Bang, when Nothing became Something.

[1977]

...
Now according to Crowley, the biggest problem with Freemasonry is that there aren't any Masons who know or understand the secret. They are just a club performing rituals once in a while that none of them understand. This was one of the reasons that Crowley decided to devote his time and efforts to the O.T.O. instead: he thought Masonry was hopeless.
Yes, I was being a bit facetious. Some might be very thankful that it is lost. I sometimes wonder if you are alluding to things that you are not officially allowed to disclose. (That's a loaded question you don't have to answer!) And how else am I to take a post like this (http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=51288) by Grandsecretary?
Regardless, I also want to comment on your "dirty old man" statement. For the Sexual Gnostics, sex is holy, not "dirty". In the sex act, according to their theology, one participates in the mysterious forces of creation, which were unleashed at the moment of the Big Bang, when Nothing became Something.
Well, that isn't quite right. The Gnostics knew that the universe is in fact Nothing, created erroneously by the Archon in a fit of masturbation. (And perhaps therein lies the symbolism behind the "lame" demiurge in Greco-Egyptian mythology--and Parsifal.)

[thelonious]

Yes, I was being a bit facetious. Some might be very, very thankful that it is lost. I simply wonder if you are alluding to things that you are not officially allowed to disclose.

I sort of agree with Crowley when he said "Mystery is the enemy of truth". The time when it was necessary to hide all the occult secrets in secret societies is long past.

As one who has been initiated, passed, and raised in Masonry, I naturally swore that I would not reveal the Masonic secrets. But on the other hand, the secrets are technically nothing more than the so-called "signs of recognition", and parts of the initiation rituals themselves. There isn't any actual doctrine in Masonry that's considered secret, and it all can be read in Masonic books.


And how else am I to take a post like this (http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=51288) by Grandsecretary?

GS's posts can be confusing because he presents himself as a Mason. However, his group, called "The Grand Lodge of All England", was actually formed by him and a friend of his just a few years ago. They have no ties or connections to legitimate Freemasonry, and not being an orthodox Mason himself, naturally he cannot speak for the fraternity.

The legitimate Masonic organization in England is the United Grand Lodge of England, and their website is http://www.ugle.org.uk/



Well, that isn't quite right. The Gnostics knew that the universe is in fact Nothing, created erroneously by the Archon in a fit of masturbation. (And perhaps therein lies the symbolism behind the "lame" demiurge in Greco-Egyptian mythology--and Parsifal.)

Ah....but how did the Archon exist if there was Nothing? :D

[1977]

I sort of agree with Crowley when he said "Mystery is the enemy of truth". The time when it was necessary to hide all the occult secrets in secret societies is long past. I agree.
GS's posts can be confusing because he presents himself as a Mason. However, his group, called "The Grand Lodge of All England", was actually formed by him and a friend of his just a few years ago. They have no ties or connections to legitimate Freemasonry, and not being an orthodox Mason himself, naturally he cannot speak for the fraternity.

The legitimate Masonic organization in England is the United Grand Lodge of England, and their website is http://www.ugle.org.uk/
Thank you for clarifying that; I wasn't aware of the situation there.

Ah....but how did the Archon exist if there was Nothing? :D
Well, see, first Sophia considered masturbating and had a naughty thought, and well, it all went downhill from there...

[lightgiver]

That is nonsense about UGLE IMHO.

A failure of transparency

We have met many men who are officers of the UGLE and they generally prove to be very good men indeed. They have been given grandiose titles (usually entirely honorary) but have little or no say in the running of the organisation. None of them have any idea of how they came to be appointed to these grand positions.

Once a Freemason has served as Master of his lodge he is eligible to be chosen to become an officer of his local Provincial Grand Lodge. Such preferment is almost inevitable and it is the speed at which it occurs and the status of the rank that is indicates how well the individual's face fits. Only a very few are ever invited to join the hallowed ranks of the United Grand Lodge of England – and none of them will know why they have suddenly received a ‘tap on the shoulder’. One Grand Lodge officer told us 'It’s a complete mystery to me why I was chosen'.

On the other hand, others will know that they will never be amongst the chosen ones. When our first book came out in 1996 we received many invitations to speak to individual lodges. Suddenly, several of them were cancelled without explanation. Then several Worshipful Masters told us that they had been told that it was in their best interests to cancel our talk, as failure to do so would result in their ‘Masonic career’ being very limited. The ones that told us were men, strong enough to ignore such blackmail.

Worship us

UGLE has a different attitude to its own status compared to all other Grand Lodges. In Scotland for instance, the Grand Lodge exists to service the network of lodges across that country, but under the English Constitution it is the ordinary Freemason who is required to serve his 'rulers' in the Craft.

In Scotland all Freemasons are referred to as ‘Brother’ when addressing them by name, no matter how exalted their rank. In England it is the person not the rank that is honoured with these mysteriously promoted individuals styled with titles such as ‘Very Worshipful Brother’ or ‘Most Worshipful Brother’.

Despite the fact that all of the Freemasons who founded the first Grand Lodge in London in 1717 were ntitled men, it is now essential that the Craft in England is led by an aristocrat. The rules of UGLE state: ‘The Grand Master, if a Prince of the Blood Royal, may appoint a Pro Grand Master, who must be a Peer of the Realm’.

In an age where the country is run by the House of Commons it is surely unacceptable to have an unelected body ruling Freemasonry by dictate. Even Great Britain’s second chamber, the House of Lords is being reformed to become more democratic.


You will find Thelonious has a bee in his bonnet about GS,and will post any old stuff without back up as usual or some long winded multi quote,to try and prove he has some type of intelligence.


Or is it he just loves that old dead devil pikey.

[marpat]

I sort of agree with Crowley when he said "Mystery is the enemy of truth". The time when it was necessary to hide all the occult secrets in secret societies is long past.

As one who has been initiated, passed, and raised in Masonry, I naturally swore that I would not reveal the Masonic secrets. But on the other hand, the secrets are technically nothing more than the so-called "signs of recognition", and parts of the initiation rituals themselves. There isn't any actual doctrine in Masonry that's considered secret, and it all can be read in Masonic books.


The legitimate Masonic organization in England is the United Grand Lodge of England, and their website is http://www.ugle.org.uk/


Ah....but how did the Archon exist if there was Nothing? :D

This is exactly the same for OTO initiations. You can read the entire rituals from books that are available. Its like being sworn to keep the alphabet secret when you know for a fact it is common knowledge!!

The true secret is only found by inner experience. It is secret because words are often incapable of description.

[thelonious]

That is nonsense about UGLE IMHO.

First, let it be noted that I'm not *defending* the UGLE here, in any actions they may or may not have taken. I'm just saying that they are legitimate, traditional Freemasonry.

If one is an English Mason and has a beef with the UGLE, he should just resign and get on with his life. Making up new organizations and pretending they're ancient is just sort of silly.


UGLE has a different attitude to its own status compared to all other Grand Lodges. In Scotland for instance, the Grand Lodge exists to service the network of lodges across that country, but under the English Constitution it is the ordinary Freemason who is required to serve his 'rulers' in the Craft.

In Scotland all Freemasons are referred to as ‘Brother’ when addressing them by name, no matter how exalted their rank. In England it is the person not the rank that is honoured with these mysteriously promoted individuals styled with titles such as ‘Very Worshipful Brother’ or ‘Most Worshipful Brother’.

This may or may not be the case; I've never been to England, so I don't know. In the USA, everybody's a "brother", with the titles above being honorary for current or past officers.

For example, if you had served your Lodge as Master and I was introducing you in open Lodge, I would refer to you as "Worshipful Brother Lightbringer". If you had served as Past Grand Master, I would refer to you as "Most Worshipful Brother". If you had never served the fraternity in office, I would refer to you as "Brother".

This has nothing to do with rank, but is simply using on honorific title to thank you for having served the fraternity with your time and talents.



In an age where the country is run by the House of Commons it is surely unacceptable to have an unelected body ruling Freemasonry by dictate. Even Great Britain’s second chamber, the House of Lords is being reformed to become more democratic.

In the USA, Grand Lodges are democratic. Grand Masters are elected by the majority vote of the membership, and serve one year terms.


You will find Thelonious has a bee in his bonnet about GS,and will post any old stuff without back up as usual or some long winded multi quote,to try and prove he has some type of intelligence.

I don't have a "bee in my bonnet" about that guy. I simply point out that he's not a Mason. Again, if he doesn't like the UGLE, why would he form an organizations pretending to be Masonry? Why not just form a fraternity that has nothing to do with Masonry?


Or is it he just loves that old dead devil pikey.

One of your main problems, Lightgiver, is that you are far too judgemental, and on things you lack serious knowledge on. That is *not* a pathway to enlightenment. Even if Pike *was* a devil (which he certainly wasn't), one who is in harmony with the Tao would look for his good qualities and emphasize those. And I'm not attacking you here, I'm just providing you some counsel, and hope you consider it.

If you want to study Pike, and then condemn him for what he believed, did, and taught, be my guest. As long as you're honest about what you're condemning, you're free to believe and think anything you want without any flack from me. But at least have the integrity to be honest in your research, as one who follows the Way will also double-check his or her sources to make sure they are not accidentally falsely slandering anyone.

[lightgiver]

First, let it be noted that I'm not *defending* the UGLE here, in any actions they may or may not have taken. I'm just saying that they are legitimate, traditional Freemasonry.

If one is an English Mason and has a beef with the UGLE, he should just resign and get on with his life. Making up new organizations and pretending they're ancient is just sort of silly.




This may or may not be the case; I've never been to England, so I don't know. In the USA, everybody's a "brother", with the titles above being honorary for current or past officers.

For example, if you had served your Lodge as Master and I was introducing you in open Lodge, I would refer to you as "Worshipful Brother Lightbringer". If you had served as Past Grand Master, I would refer to you as "Most Worshipful Brother". If you had never served the fraternity in office, I would refer to you as "Brother".

This has nothing to do with rank, but is simply using on honorific title to thank you for having served the fraternity with your time and talents.



In the USA, Grand Lodges are democratic. Grand Masters are elected by the majority vote of the membership, and serve one year terms.




I don't have a "bee in my bonnet" about that guy. I simply point out that he's not a Mason. Again, if he doesn't like the UGLE, why would he form an organizations pretending to be Masonry? Why not just form a fraternity that has nothing to do with Masonry?




One of your main problems, Lightgiver, is that you are far too judgemental, and on things you lack serious knowledge on. That is *not* a pathway to enlightenment. Even if Pike *was* a devil (which he certainly wasn't), one who is in harmony with the Tao would look for his good qualities and emphasize those. And I'm not attacking you here, I'm just providing you some counsel, and hope you consider it.

If you want to study Pike, and then condemn him for what he believed, did, and taught, be my guest. As long as you're honest about what you're condemning, you're free to believe and think anything you want without any flack from me. But at least have the integrity to be honest in your research, as one who follows the Way will also double-check his or her sources to make sure they are not accidentally falsely slandering anyone.

No you are too judgemental and live in denial land.

like you are doing now, judging me:p

Pike is not my cup of tea,and he was a agent of deception,did you know what he wrote about lower masons,maybe you have not been reading right.

and yes you are correct about free to believe what I want,how long will it last one wonders?

Keep trying,there is a thread on pike so put your views on him there,you are unhealthily obsessed with him,

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=53729&page=10 here is the link for your obsessive love.

[thelonious]

Pike is not my cup of tea,and he was a agent of deception,


Ok, if what you say is true, then *how* was he "an agent of deception"? What did he do that was deceptive, when in his books, he's always championing the cause of truth? If you can explain this to me, I'd really appreciate it.

did you know what he wrote about lower masons,maybe you have not been reading right.

I know what Pike wrote, and I think, for the most part, he was correct.


Keep trying,there is a thread on pike so put your views on him there,you are unhealthily obsessed with him,


Really? I'm not the one who brings him up in every thread. ;)

[lightgiver]

Ok, if what you say is true, then *how* was he "an agent of deception"? What did he do that was deceptive, when in his books, he's always championing the cause of truth? If you can explain this to me, I'd really appreciate it.



I know what Pike wrote, and I think, for the most part, he was correct.



Really? I'm not the one who brings him up in every thread. ;)

Making things up again i see,how do I bring him up in every thread:confused:

You are the one still harping on about it.

[thelonious]

Making things up again i see,how do I bring him up in every thread:confused:

You are the one still harping on about it.

Nope. You brought it up once again, and still didn't follow through with it.

I suggest more time in the meditation hall. ;)

[lightgiver]

Nope. You brought it up once again, and still didn't follow through with it.

I suggest more time in the meditation hall. ;)

I suggest you read this and stop your stalking and advice.

Albert Pike explained in Morals & Dogma how the true nature of Freemasonry is kept a secret from Masons of lower degrees:

"The Blue Degrees are but the outer court or portico of the Temple. Part of the symbols are displayed there to the Initiate, but he is intentionally misled by false interpretations. It is not intended that he shall understand them; but it is intended that he shall imagine he understands them. Their true explication is reserved for the Adepts, the Princes of Masonry. The whole body of the Royal and Sacerdotal Art was hidden so carefully, centuries since, in the High Degrees, as that it is even yet impossible to solve many of the enigmas which they contain. It is well enough for the mass of those called Masons, to imagine that all is contained in the Blue Degrees; and whoso attempts to undeceive them will labour in vain, and without any true reward violate his obligations as an Adept. Masonry is the veritable Sphinx, buried to the head in the sands heaped round it by the ages.

[marpat]

I suggest you read this and stop your stalking and advice.

Albert Pike explained in Morals & Dogma how the true nature of Freemasonry is kept a secret from Masons of lower degrees:

"The Blue Degrees are but the outer court or portico of the Temple. Part of the symbols are displayed there to the Initiate, but he is intentionally misled by false interpretations. It is not intended that he shall understand them; but it is intended that he shall imagine he understands them. Their true explication is reserved for the Adepts, the Princes of Masonry. The whole body of the Royal and Sacerdotal Art was hidden so carefully, centuries since, in the High Degrees, as that it is even yet impossible to solve many of the enigmas which they contain. It is well enough for the mass of those called Masons, to imagine that all is contained in the Blue Degrees; and whoso attempts to undeceive them will labour in vain, and without any true reward violate his obligations as an Adept. Masonry is the veritable Sphinx, buried to the head in the sands heaped round it by the ages.

Wasnt this written before he became a freemason? what I dont get is why a freemason would write a book that anybody can read which actually claims that people joining freemasonry are mislead. This would seem like an own goal to me and the very thing that would reduce membership.

If he wrote it before he became a freemason then that would explain something. People loyalties change and maybe his did when he became one of them.

Do you have any information as to when he joined the freemasons and when this book was published?

[1977]

Pike was indeed a Freemason. You are thinking of Manly P. Hall.

He had in the interim joined a Masonic lodge and become extremely active in the affairs of the organization, being elected Sovereign Grand Commander of the Scottish Rite's Southern Jurisdiction in 1859.[citation needed] He remained Sovereign Grand Commander for the remainder of his life (a total of thirty-two years), devoting a large amount of his time to developing the rituals of the order.[citation needed] Notably, he published a book called Morals and Dogma of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry in 1871, of which there were several subsequent editions.


But to return to our original subject: Ecstasy through Tantra by Dr. Jonn Mumford p61 (http://www.whale.to/b/sodomy_q.html)

Anal intercourse is the Tantric equivalent of such Hatha Yoga practices as Mulabandha (anal sphincter lock), and Asvini Mudra alternating relaxation and contraction of the anus).

The secret tradition of magical Tantra teaches that the anus is an ultrasensitive erogenic and psychic zone directly linked the Muladhara, the basal Chakra. Hidden within Muladhara, Boiled and compressed like a spring, lies the primal power of the nervous system manifest as the Snake Goddess, Kundalini.

The terminus for the "pipe of flesh" is the anus, composed of an internal anal external sphincter, rings of muscle surrounding a body orifice. The word "sphincter" means a "knot" or a "band" and is derived from the same Greek base as "Sphinx," the mythological beast epitomizing occult mysteries. The master of Tantric sex magic opens the anal sphincters of his Shakti, thus solving the riddle of the Sphinx.

Anal intercourse is a specific Kundalini arousal method. Reference to Gray's Anatomy reveals the existance of an irregular, oval-shaped gland between the rectal wall and the tip of the tailbone, or coccyx, called the "coccygeal body.'' Although the function of this gland is unknown to
Western physiologists, it is established in Tantra as the "Kundalini gland." Yoga has devised a wide variety of techniques to irritate and awaken this gland into activity, including Mula Bandha, Asvini Mudra, Tada Mudra (knocking the buttocks upon the ground, sending rhythmic shock waves rippling up the spine), and rolling on a cotton ball placed under the tip of the tailbone.

Tantric activation of the gland is direct and swift through the dilation of the anal sphincters, with a consequent reflex effect upon the two branches of the autonomic nervous system. These two branches, terminating in the anus and rectum, are the parasympathetic (Ida, or braking influence) and the sympathetic (Pingala, or accelerating influence). As well as altering the state of the involuntary nervous system, anal intercourse, according to traditional belief, results in the ejaculation of semen into the rectum, which nourishes the "Kundalini gland" much as the white of an egg feeds the fertilized yolk or embryo. The Tantrist, sustain ing his Shakti or Goddess with anal intercourse, facilitates the arousal of her internal fire.

The Occidental mentality is conditioned to look upon the anus as unclean. The Hindu, on the other hand, is scrupulous in hygiene at both ends of the "pipe of flesh," having a firm tradition of rinsing the anus after bowel activity, using copious quantities of water and the left hand (the right hand being reserved for handling food when eat ing!). Certain schools of Hatha Yoga consider washing the bowel daily with water through a system of natural enemas (Basti) as much a necessity as cleaning the mouth and teeth. Tantric practices may be viewed by some as "pervert" or "deviate," and in terms of the inner meaning of words, they are. "Pervert" means "to overthrow," "to turn around," while "deviate" (de and via, the way or path) suggests "off the road," "out of the way."

[marpat]

ah

[marpat]

Pike was indeed a Freemason. You are thinking of Manly P. Hall.



But to return to our original subject: Ecstasy through Tantra by Dr. Jonn Mumford p61 (http://www.whale.to/b/sodomy_q.html)

Good book that, bought it years ago.

[thelonious]

I suggest you read this and stop your stalking and advice.

Albert Pike explained in Morals & Dogma how the true nature of Freemasonry is kept a secret from Masons of lower degrees:

Do you not just realize how you contradicted yourself? On one hand, you're saying that the true nature of Freemasonry is kept a secret, but on the other hand, you say that Pike explains it all in a book.

So which is it?

"The Blue Degrees are but the outer court or portico of the Temple. Part of the symbols are displayed there to the Initiate, but he is intentionally misled by false interpretations. It is not intended that he shall understand them; but it is intended that he shall imagine he understands them. Their true explication is reserved for the Adepts, the Princes of Masonry. The whole body of the Royal and Sacerdotal Art was hidden so carefully, centuries since, in the High Degrees, as that it is even yet impossible to solve many of the enigmas which they contain. It is well enough for the mass of those called Masons, to imagine that all is contained in the Blue Degrees; and whoso attempts to undeceive them will labour in vain, and without any true reward violate his obligations as an Adept. Masonry is the veritable Sphinx, buried to the head in the sands heaped round it by the ages.

This is taken from Chapter 30 of Morals and Dogma. Have you read that chapter, and do you know what he's talking about?

[marpat]

Do you not just realize how you contradicted yourself? On one hand, you're saying that the true nature of Freemasonry is kept a secret, but on the other hand, you say that Pike explains it all in a book.

So which is it?



This is taken from Chapter 30 of Morals and Dogma. Have you read that chapter, and do you know what he's talking about?

Can you offer any insight as to why he would claim they are miseld? I am not anti-mason or anything but it seems a bit unusual. I could take it in the sense that as people learn and develop they will change their ideas, which then also evolve, meaning there is no absolute meaning to the symbols. In the mystery traditions all things end in the root of being, a state in which rational thinking does not exist, so it is no suprise that all the secrets cannot be understood, being above the rational mind. Nor sure if Im getting my point across.

[thelonious]

Can you offer any insight as to why he would claim they are miseld? I am not anti-mason or anything but it seems a bit unusual. I could take it in the sense that as people learn and develop they will change their ideas, which then also evolve, meaning there is no absolute meaning to the symbols.

That particular Pike quote comes from Chapter 30 of Morals and Dogma, which is the lecture for the 30th Degree, called Knight Kadosh, a degree of Templary.

At the time Pike wrote that, he was under the belief that the masons actually came from the Knights Templar through direct historical lineage. In the Blue Degrees, nothing is said about the Knights Templar, with Templary being stuff introduced in the higher degrees. Thus, Pike believed at the time of writing that Blue Degree candidates were given false histories of the Order, while in the higher degrees the Mason learned the true history.

The problem with Pike's idea here is that it was completely false. After Gould published his seven volume "History of Freemasonry", Pike acknowledged his error, as Gould proved conclusively that Freemasonry is derived from the medieval stonemason guilds, and not from orders of chivalry.

Therefore, lightgiver's argument in this effect is pretty weak. He tries to use Pike's words against him, even though I'm fairly certain that he (lightgiver) had no idea what Pike was talking about, much less being aware of the fact that Pike retracted the statement on historical grounds, and eliminated it from subsequent lectures.

[lightgiver]

Do you not just realize how you contradicted yourself? On one hand, you're saying that the true nature of Freemasonry is kept a secret, but on the other hand, you say that Pike explains it all in a book.

So which is it?



This is taken from Chapter 30 of Morals and Dogma. Have you read that chapter, and do you know what he's talking about?

TBH I do not care what he speaks or writes,I follow my own path,pike did not attain any enlightenment no matter how many words he wrote or degrees he got.

I have seen enough of him and read enough about him ,enough is enough.

Goodness you must really love him.:D and you are always contradicting.

You need to follow something else,because you do not appear comfortable,you are always bringing me into your posts??

Pike was a mason and is for some masons,and I am not one,so I will print what I need to,because the guy as no relevance at all as far as I am concerned.

What is so good about him?BTW I have no arguments maybe you do,but I do not.

Morals and Dogma of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Masonry. Published in 1871 (no ISBN), this massive volume consists of 861 pages and 32 Chapters, covering each of the 32 Degrees of Freemasonry. While many consider it to be a Mason's guide for daily living, the truth is that not many Masons have even read the book, on account of it being somewhat difficult to understand.

Maybe you do not understand it.

More than 75% of the book consists of historical records of ancient civilisations (inc. Egypt, Greece, China, India, Persia) and their superstitions and religious observances. At first reading Pike creates the impression of being well-read and extremely knowledgeable on his topic, until you take the time to read the preface. It accuses Pike of plagiarism throughout, stating that “he has extracted quite half its contents from the works of the best writers and most philosophic or eloquent thinkers”.

Copied off others,and the same goes for most.

Plagiarism is the use or close imitation of the language and ideas of another author and representation of them as one's own original work.

Do you attend the Lodge of Perfection Thelonious?,there is only one perfection and that is the Perfection of Wisdom Sutras.

If you are happy following him,than that's your prerogative,but that does not mean everyone else needs to,be happy and move on.

You must think I have something against him,you are wrong,it does not even cross my mind only when I come on here and you bring him up nearly on every thread I do.

Give me a break eh.Ha Ha.

The citizens copy after the State, and regard wealth, pomp, and luxury as the great goods of life. Such a nation creates wealth rapidly, and distributes it badly. Thence the two extremes, of monstrous opulence and monstrous misery; all the enjoyment to a few, all the privations to the rest, that is to say, to the people; Privilege, Exception, Monopoly, Feudality, springing up from Labour itself: a false and dangerous situation, which, making Labour a blinded and chained Cyclops, in the mine, at the forge, in the workshop, at the loom, in the field, over poisonous fumes, in miasmatic cells, in unventilated factories, founds public power upon private misery, and plants the greatness of the State in the suffering of the individual. It is a greatness ill constituted, in which all the material elements are combined, and into which no moral element enters. If a people, like a star, has the right of eclipse, the light ought to return. The eclipse should not degenerate into night.

[thelonious]

You need to follow something else,because you do not appear comfortable,you are always bringing me into your posts??



You're the one who lied about Pike above, so you brought yourself into it.

So get over it, and spare us the tears.

[lightgiver]

See i told you I have nothing against him,just not for me.


⊕∴ God is the Eternal, Omnipotent, Immutable WISDOM and Supreme INTELLIGENCE and Exhaustless LOVE.
Thou shalt adore, revere, and love Him!
Thou shalt honor Him by practising the virtues!

II.


○∴ Thy religion shall be, to do good because it is a pleasure to thee, and not merely because it is a duty.
That thou mayest become the friend of the wise man, thou shalt obey his precepts!
Thy soul is immortal! Thou shalt do nothing to degrade it!

III.


⊕∴ Thou shalt unceasingly war against vice!
Thou shalt not do unto others that which thou wouldst not wish them to do unto thee!
Thou shalt be submissive to thy fortunes, and keep burning the light of wisdom!

IV.


○∴ Thou shalt honor thy parents!
Thou shalt pay respect and homage to the aged!
Thou shalt instruct the young!
Thou shalt protect and defend infancy and innocence!

V.


⊕∴ Thou shalt cherish thy wife and thy children!
Thou shalt love thy country, and obey its laws! p. 18

VI.


○∴ Thy friend shall be to thee a second self!
Misfortune shall not estrange thee from him!
Thou shalt do for his memory whatever thou wouldst do for him, if he were living!

VII.


⊕∴ Thou shalt avoid and flee from insincere friendships!
Thou shalt in everything refrain from excess.
Thou shalt fear to be the cause of a stain on thy memory!

VIII.


○∴ Thou shalt allow no passions to become thy master!
Thou shalt make the passions of others profitable lessons to thyself!
Thou shalt be indulgent to error!

IX.


⊕∴ Thou shalt hear much: Thou shalt speak little: Thou shalt act well!
Thou shalt forget injuries!
Thou shalt render good for evil!
Thou shalt not misuse either thy strength or thy superiority!

X.


○∴ Thou shalt study to know men; that thereby thou mayest learn to know thyself!
Thou shalt ever seek after virtue!
Thou shalt be just!
Thou shalt avoid idleness!

[lightgiver]

You're the one who lied about Pike above, so you brought yourself into it.

So get over it, and spare us the tears.

Rubbish,are you for real spare the tears,get a life ya sad git,how could I have lied when its off the net ya plonker.

and on kadosh,

WE often profit more by our enemies than by our friends. "We support ourselves only on that which resists," and owe our success to opposition. The best friends of Masonry in America were the Anti-Masons of 1826, and at the same time they were its worst enemies. Men are but the automata of Providence, and it uses the demagogue, the fanatic, and the knave, a common trinity in Republics, as its tools and instruments to effect that of which they do not dream, and which they imagine themselves commissioned to prevent.

[It is absurd to suppose that men of intellect adored a monstrous idol called Baphomet, or recognized Mahomet as an inspired prophet. Their symbolism, invented ages before, to conceal what it was dangerous to avow, was of course misunderstood by those who were not adepts, and to their enemies seemed to be pantheistic. The calf of gold, made by Aaron for the Israelites, was but one of the oxen under the laver of bronze, and the Karobim on the Propitiatory, misunderstood. The symbols of the wise always become the idols of the ignorant multitude. What the Chiefs of the Order really believed and taught, is indicated to the Adepts by the hints contained in the high Degrees of Free-Masonry, and by the symbols which only the Adepts understand.

[marpat]

That particular Pike quote comes from Chapter 30 of Morals and Dogma, which is the lecture for the 30th Degree, called Knight Kadosh, a degree of Templary.

At the time Pike wrote that, he was under the belief that the masons actually came from the Knights Templar through direct historical lineage. In the Blue Degrees, nothing is said about the Knights Templar, with Templary being stuff introduced in the higher degrees. Thus, Pike believed at the time of writing that Blue Degree candidates were given false histories of the Order, while in the higher degrees the Mason learned the true history.

The problem with Pike's idea here is that it was completely false. After Gould published his seven volume "History of Freemasonry", Pike acknowledged his error, as Gould proved conclusively that Freemasonry is derived from the medieval stonemason guilds, and not from orders of chivalry.

Therefore, lightgiver's argument in this effect is pretty weak. He tries to use Pike's words against him, even though I'm fairly certain that he (lightgiver) had no idea what Pike was talking about, much less being aware of the fact that Pike retracted the statement on historical grounds, and eliminated it from subsequent lectures.

Thanks for that. It does seem that once people have stated something they are held to that whether they change their minds or not. Same with many of Crowleys quotes even though many of his views changed with time.

[lightgiver]

Et in arcadia ego