im questioning national insurance

[bones]

i know i have to start small as i have to show ive considered all avenues to travel first.



Dear sir/madam,

Hello and good morning to you, I am self employed and currently pay class 2 and 4 national insurance contributions.
I have been researching statute law and I’m unable to find the statute that compels me to pay national insurance contributions.

All I find is if I don’t pay my entitlement to benefits may be affected, now this has given me the understanding that it’s a choice? And not law!!

On further investigation the only benefits available to me is a pension which on my last phone call you couldn’t confirm that there will be a pension when I retire, and the other is bereavement benefit.

If you could send me the information in relation the above matter that would be great.

On a final note could you tell me why you are on the Dunn and Bradstreet listings registered as a company?

Kind regards

[yozhik]

i know i have to start small as i have to show ive considered all avenues to travel first.



Dear sir/madam,

Hello and good morning to you, I am self employed and currently pay class 2 and 4 national insurance contributions.
I have been researching statute law and I’m unable to find the statute that compels me to pay national insurance contributions.

All I find is if I don’t pay my entitlement to benefits may be affected, now this has given me the understanding that it’s a choice? And not law!!

On further investigation the only benefits available to me is a pension which on my last phone call you couldn’t confirm that there will be a pension when I retire, and the other is bereavement benefit.

If you could send me the information in relation the above matter that would be great.

On a final note could you tell me why you are on the Dunn and Bradstreet listings registered as a company?

Kind regards

nice one bones. :)

Why not follow it up with something like ...

This is obviously an insurance policy, as is fully implied by the name in addition to the fact I am asked to pay premium contributions.
Based on this understanding, could you please provide me with the following;
1. a copy of the insurance policy terms and conditions
2. the named benefactor on the policy
3. the name and contact details of the policy underwriter
4. the surrender value
5. the term of the policy
6. a list of all interested parties, as detailed on the policy itself
7. the policy number
8. details of any connected life policy

Thanks in advance.

That should create some interest :)

[number_6]

National Insurance Act (1948)

[bones]

nice one bones. :)

Why not follow it up with something like ...

This is obviously an insurance policy, as is fully implied by the name in addition to the fact I am asked to pay premium contributions.
Based on this understanding, could you please provide me with the following;
1. a copy of the insurance policy terms and conditions
2. the named benefactor on the policy
3. the name and contact details of the policy underwriter
4. the surrender value
5. the term of the policy
6. a list of all interested parties, as detailed on the policy itself
7. the policy number
8. details of any connected life policy

Thanks in advance.

That should create some interest :)

add it to my letter or just wait for reply?

[Ian2day]

Its a monopoly just like BT use to be.

[yozhik]

National Insurance Act (1948)

I've searched for this ... can't locate it

[chesterd]

Here you go it's the original from 1913.....hmmmmm 1913 same year as the fed reserve act.
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/RevisedStatutes/Acts/ukpga/1913/cukpga_19130037_en_1

Peace Chester

[the worm that turned]

Here you go it's the original from 1913.....hmmmmm 1913 same year as the fed reserve act.
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/RevisedStatutes/Acts/ukpga/1913/cukpga_19130037_en_1

Peace Chester

Not much there!! So where is the 1911 act?

[yozhik]

Not much there!! So where is the 1911 act?

Yeah ... came across the same dilemma.
Refers to an Act that can't be found.
Funny that ...

[chesterd]

Just so happens that some Acts are not available online.Hmmmmm lol

[chesterd]

This is the earliest full version i could find.
http://www.statutelaw.gov.uk/legResults.aspx?LegType=All+Legislation&title=national+insurance&searchEnacted=0&extentMatchOnly=0&confersPower=0&blanketAmendment=0&TYPE=QS&NavFrom=0&activeTextDocId=1181590&PageNumber=1&SortAlpha=0
Peace Chester

[yozhik]

This is the earliest full version i could find.
http://www.statutelaw.gov.uk/legResults.aspx?LegType=All+Legislation&title=national+insurance&searchEnacted=0&extentMatchOnly=0&confersPower=0&blanketAmendment=0&TYPE=QS&NavFrom=0&activeTextDocId=1181590&PageNumber=1&SortAlpha=0
Peace Chester

He he he he ... another example of "hide and seek". :rolleyes:
Have you noticed how much of their deception is based on nothing more than making the information nigh on impossible to find?
One statute is broken up into hundreds of amendments and repeals, scattered in a myriad of other pieces of indecipherable and incomplete legislation, whether they be Acts, Measures or Statutory Instruments.
Its a farce; a complete farce.

[chesterd]

Yep a puzzle wrapped in an enigma tied up with confusion and then buried in a huge pile of horse shyte.:D
Peace Chester

[bones]

well ive sent off the final letter with tthe amended information yoznik provided(many thx for that).
ive give em 14 days if i dont recieve any onfo in that time ill send a notice of intent to stop payments untill they provide what i want.

that should get there fannys wet!

ill keep ya all posted...

[kajun666]

ill keep ya all posted...

Please do m8, as this is gonna be interesting.

[bones]

well its been 14 days today and ive had no reply at all.

so ive drafted this , see what ya think! ive kept it sweet as i want to stay in honor.

Thursday 9th April 2009

NOTICE OF INTENDED ACTION

Hello, 14 days ago I sent you a letter in relation to national insurance contributions dated 26th march 09.
I clearly asked for information to which you have failed to submit to me.
I am upon the impression you couldn’t give the information in the time frame allocated so I’m happy to allocate an extra 10 days from the date upon this letter.
You are required to submit the following immediately, as failure to do so will lead to the cancellation of my direct debit.


As this is obviously an insurance policy, as is fully implied by the name in addition to the fact I am asked to pay premium contributions.
Based on this understanding, could you please provide me with the following;
1. A copy of the insurance policy terms and conditions
2. The named benefactor on the policy
3. The name and contact details of the policy underwriter
4. The surrender value
5. The term of the policy
6. A list of all interested parties, as detailed on the policy itself
7. The policy number
8. Details of any connected life policy

Now if you cannot provide the information for me then I require a contact address so that I may take this further.

Upon further investigation ide like for you to explain why you are listed on the Dunn and Bradstreet listings as a private company, with share holders?

This is very disturbing as it would put me as an employee for that corporation hence the use of a national insurance number.

I thank you for your time in this matter…

[wakeupworld]

Good luck Bones, there is still a debate re: Dunne & Bradstreet entries, whether they are companies or not as many listed there are NOT registered at Companies House.
Anyway very interesting developement into our freeman rights.

[pleasuredome]

you're doing it the best way, bones. continue paying and ask questions. when you get no response, step it up by noticing them and say that if they dont respond appropriately and duly, then they agree that it is all well and good to stop paying. :cool:

[entheogen]

Good luck Bones, there is still a debate re: Dunne & Bradstreet entries, whether they are companies or not as many listed there are NOT registered at Companies House.
Anyway very interesting developement into our freeman rights.

There is a reason for that

Check the web address - companieshouse.gov:rolleyes:

[wakeupworld]

There is a reason for that

Check the web address - companieshouse.gov:rolleyes:


Yes good point. Suppose to be law (whatever that is:confused:) to be registered with Companies House if a limited company is formed.

[Ian2day]

Yes good point. Suppose to be law (whatever that is:confused:) to be registered with Companies House if a limited company is formed.


Not if that company was formulated by decree of Royal Charter... Has anyone connected the dots yet? Before I am taken out that is.

[wakeupworld]

Don`t have enough dots to connect just yet :(

[Ian2day]

Don`t have enough dots to connect just yet :(
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=61117

[bones]

got a reply today over a week after late.

http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/194/nationalinsurancereply1.jpg (http://img25.imageshack.us/my.php?image=nationalinsurancereply1.jpg)

[1694]

Interesting read on the Amish and Social Security in the USA:

http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=367718&highlight=amish

[yozhik]

got a reply today over a week after late.

http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/194/nationalinsurancereply1.jpg (http://img25.imageshack.us/my.php?image=nationalinsurancereply1.jpg)

bones, am I missing something? Or did they totally ignore your questions?

[merlincove]

Doesn't Ni contributions go toward national health service too?

i feel as a freeman on the land we'd have a bupa or similar contribution set up as we wont have a contract any more with the NHS?

[pirateben]

this is the link to the Social Security Contributions and Benefits Act 1992 (c. 4)

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/ACTS/acts1992/ukpga_19920004_en_1

it is very very long to read and honestly i found it too complicated to make much sense of it at the moment, but i am trying to read more and more in pursuit of becomming a free-man

it is very annoying that almost every letter i see in reply to someones questioning skims right past the questions asked and tells you basically nothing, except for the fact that they wont awnser direct questions about this sort of thing

[yozhik]

it is very annoying that almost every letter i see in reply to someones questioning skims right past the questions asked and tells you basically nothing, except for the fact that they wont awnser direct questions about this sort of thing

... and what does that tell us? :rolleyes:

[tjohn]

Its a monopoly just like BT use to be.Using fake money too.

[bones]

bones, am I missing something? Or did they totally ignore your questions?


hi ive just got back from a long weekend holiday and yes they have ignored all of the questions pointed out.

ill be drafting one tomorrow...

[Ian2day]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_sBOsh-vyI

[yozhik]

hi ive just got back from a long weekend holiday and yes they have ignored all of the questions pointed out.

ill be drafting one tomorrow...

I've drafted the same ... will be posted this week. :rolleyes:

It's so obvious, we've never noticed it.
It's called insurance ... we pay contributions/premiums ... and yet we've never bothered to ask for a copy of the policy and asked for details.

How ridiculous is that?
There is absolutely no way we'd pay for house insurance or car insurance; without knowing the details of what we were paying or and ensuring we had full knowledge of the benefits and conditions.

... and yet we just accept N.I at face value.

Sometimes we can be incredibly docile.
It's moments like these I am almost too embarrassed to look in the mirror. :cool:

[bones]

well here is a draft any ideas, i think its simple but effective...

Friday 24th April 2009

NOTICE OF CLARIFCATION

Dear Mr. R DODDS,
I thank you for your reply to my letter dated 26th march 2009, I have since sent another which was sent out before your letter which was received on the 15th April 2009 please disregard that one as it has now become irrelevant in parts.

This notice however is relevant!
Your reply was pointing me to an act of parliament (statute).

The definition of a statute is “a legislated rule of a society that has been given the force of law by the consent of the governed”. “Legalese”

Now in order for me to accept your claim that I have to pay national insurance contributions can you define “person” for me in legal terms.
Also Mr. dodds you didn’t send any information I requested in relation to national insurance payments please send the following information within 10 days, if 10 days isn’t long enough then you can apply for more time if needed.

As it is obviously an insurance policy, as is fully implied by the name in addition to the fact I am asked to pay premium contributions.
Based on this understanding, could you please provide me with the following;
1. A copy of the insurance policy terms and conditions
2. The named benefactor on the policy
3. The name and contact details of the policy underwriter
4. The surrender value
5. The term of the policy
6. A list of all interested parties, as detailed on the policy itself
7. The policy number
8. Details of any connected life policy

Now if you cannot provide the information for me then I require a contact address or telephone number so that I may take this further.

Upon further investigation ide like for you to explain why you are listed on the Dunn and Bradstreet listings as a private company, with share holders?



Also Mr. Dodds you referred to me as Mr. In your response, this suggests status and I’m a man and hence have no status, finally you attached a national insurance number to your reply and this also puts me as a subject (employee) to which I am not.
Please refrain from either using Mr. and address me as alan in lower case.

As a matter of education are you aware of article 61 of the English Magna Carta?



I thank you for your time in this matter…

alan of the redgrift family.

[pdcdp]

It's so obvious, we've never noticed it.
It's called insurance ... we pay contributions/premiums ... and yet we've never bothered to ask for a copy of the policy and asked for details.


it's called national insurance.

my home insurance indemnifies my home, my car insurance (used to) insure my car, my life insurance insures my life, my national insurance......

remember we're dealing privately in commerce, probably nobody but top level bankers really understand this stuff...

is your NI number the ultimate source?

[pdcdp]

don't forget...
NI is a tax... taxes are one of the many 'benefits' and 'privileges' of the public contract... you can waive your benefits and privileges.....

bones, dude... maybe just clarify that you are acting in the private rather than making them prove things which don't really need proving? perhaps allow them to misidentify you so you can correct them in your own words? if youre acting as agent for the capsname that is...
make sure you bind them in not responding otherwise theres no reason for them to, and don't forget the guy simply might not know what you're on about.

state your claims, don't waste their time or you just waste your own, take control, don't allow the impression that you don't wholly believe that you have the right and they have the duty! BE NICE!!!

if you want a result that is, if youre looking for validation you probably won't get it this way...

in my opinion anyway, i haven't really been following this thread... :o

[pdcdp]

it is very annoying that almost every letter i see in reply to someones questioning skims right past the questions asked and tells you basically nothing, except for the fact that they wont awnser direct questions about this sort of thing

there's your answer!

only ask the questions you know they won't answer, do so in a way that benefits your case or weakens their defence. stay in honour. know thyself. don't piss about. know the final result before you raise the issue.

:cool:

[merlincove]

Bouvier's Law Dictionary

http://www.constitution.org/bouv/bouvier_n.htm

NATIONAL or PUBLIC DOMAIN. All the property which belongs to the state is comprehended under the name of national or public domain.

2. Care must be taken not to confound the public or national domain, with the national finances, or the public revenue, as taxes, imposts, contributions, duties, and the like, which are not considered as property, and are essentially attached to the sovereignty. Vide Domain; Eminent Domain.


Not sure if this pertains to NI, as posted on another thread, but.... NI would fall under 'national finances'?

[bones]

well guys its been 3 weeks since i got any reply to my last notice and they have totally ignored everything...
note!!! if im wrong why have they ignored me?


so this is my reply, any comments will be greatly recieved ...

Alan of the redgrift family
*******
*********
Grimsby



19th may 2009

NOTICE OF DISHONOUR


Mr. Dodd’s,
On the 26th day of April 2009 I sent you a notice for clarification in relation to the letter you sent me dated 15th of April 2009.
I clearly asked you for information in relation to national insurance contributions and you have dishonored HMRC by not responding to due process.

I have been very patient with you to send me what I’ve asked for and I’m now at the conclusion you cannot/wont provide the documentation I’ve requested, so I herby serve you this notice that in 10 days (29th may 2009) I will stop all direct debits from my account until I receive a satisfactory response from you.

Let me state that this is not the route I was planning on and I’m more than willing to restart any financial obligation that I may have as soon as you send me the correspondence.

A copy of the insurance policy terms and conditions
The named benefactor on the policy
The name and contact details of the policy underwriter
The surrender value
The term of the policy
A list of all interested parties, as detailed on the policy itself
The policy number
Details of any connected life policy




Thank you for noticing my notice
Without malice, ill will, vexation or frivolity

Alan of the redgrift family

[dondaz]

Great thread Bones. I have a sneaky suspicion National Insurance pays for the medical bills and the various benefits. They just make a caim off the NI number via a few different departments/corporations.

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=52461

Looking forward to your next letters mate.:)

[merlincove]

nice one bones

i'll be sending a notice of clarification of to mr dodds in the next few days too, maybe if he gets a few of these he might start to take it a little more sreiously?

best of luck mate

[angelx777]

good thread, keep going, i bet that guy at the other end w/bones has no idea what he is paying his NI for or what it is himself

[bones]

ive amended my notice to look more effective.

this will be sent tuesday morning...

Alan of the redgrift family
++++++
++++++
Grimsby



24th may 2009

NOTICE OF DISHONOUR AND ACTION


Mr. Dodd’s,
In relation to my last notice sent to you on the 26th of April 2009 it appears that your reply hasn’t been delivered; now if you haven’t replied at all it could be that to reply you would put HMRC in a compromising position?
Now as HMRC is a public body and servant to the people it is your legal requirement to respond to any questions put towards you and to answer them in complete honesty.
Failure to reply puts HMRC in dishonor and is not very professional, now I’m happy to offer you remedy by conditionally accepting that I have to pay national insurance payments upon proof of the set questions below, and as I’m an honest man on the land who doesn’t do fraud in any of my dealings I have maintained my dignity and honor throughout.


I have been very patient man with you to send me what I’ve requested for and I’m now reaching the conclusion you won’t provide the documentation I’ve requested, so I herby serve you this notice that in 10 days( from the date headed I will stop all direct debits from my account until I receive a satisfactory response from you.

Let me state that this is not the route I was planning on and I’m more than willing to restart any financial obligation that I may have as soon as you send me the correspondence for the legal fiction named ALAN LEE REDGRIFT with pass through account number ** ** ** ** *

A copy of the insurance policy terms and conditions
The named benefactor on the policy
The name and contact details of the policy underwriter
The surrender value
The term of the policy
A list of all interested parties, as detailed on the policy itself
The policy number
Details of any connected life policy

I request the legal definition of the word person and earner as I don’t understand the term stated in the social security and benefits act 1992.

It’s my understanding that equality under law is paramount and mandatory “legal maxim” do you deny this?








Thank you for noticing my notice
Without malice, ill will, vexation or frivolity

Alan of the redgrift family