More tazsers for humberside

[darkman]

BREAKING NEWS: Police to get more Tasers
Thursday, March 19, 2009, 18:00

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HUNDREDS of Tasers are going to be given to police officers in Humberside and Lincolnshire.

The weapons are being rolled out to specially trained officers – which until now have only been used by dedicated firearms officers.

Since they were introduced in North East Lincolnshire in 2005, they have been used 16 times – but only fired on five of those occasions.

Humberside Police will receive 100 extra Tasers, with Lincolnshire Police being provided with 300.

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[joe911]

its awfull i know,,but if we dont riot they cant use them,,can they? :confused:
As long as we keep whatever we do within the law then they cant touch us

[beldazar]

BBC news 24 says 6000!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7952817.stm

Police to get 6,000 extra Tasers

The guns deliver a 50,000-volt shock
An extra 6,000 Taser stun guns are to be used by police in England and Wales at a cost of £8m, the Home Office says.

The funding follows a 12-month trial in 10 forces to extend their use to trained frontline officers.

There are already 6,700 firearms officers able to use the weapons, which can temporarily disable a suspect.

Home Secretary Jacqui Smith says they are safer for the police and public but human rights body Amnesty International has called them "potentially lethal".

The guns fire needle-tipped darts up to 21ft (6m) to deliver a disabling, 50,000-volt shock.

'Extremely disappointing'

Ms Smith said: "I am proud that we have one of the few police services around the world that does not regularly carry firearms and I want to keep it that way.

"Everyday the police put themselves in danger to protect us, the public... I want to give the police the tools they tell me they need to confront dangerous people."

The Home Office also announced an additional £2.3m to pay for the cartridges. TOP FIVE TASER-USING FORCES
West Midlands Police: 600
British Transport Police: 400
Merseyside Police: 365
West Yorkshire Police: 327
Devon & Cornwall Constabulary: 325
Source: Home Office

When extra funding was made available, police forces submitted bids to the Home Office for the number of Tasers they required, and each was given its total.

Paul McKeever, of the Police Federation of England and Wales, said: "The investment rightly reflects the professionalism of police officers nationwide and recognises the vital role Taser plays in the fight against crime."

But he said it was "extremely disappointing" the Metropolitan Police had failed to "take advantage" of the funding.

The force has chosen not to sanction extending their use in London because of fears they could "damage public confidence".

Mr McKeever said Tasers provide a less lethal alternative to firearms and gives officers confidence and reassurance when confronted with volatile situations.

A Metropolitan Police Authority spokesman said while the guns add useful flexibility to police armoury, there is a responsibility to reinforce public confidence in the force.

"This could be affected by an uncalled for increase in the deployment of Tasers, which are still widely perceived as oppressive," he said.

He added that a decision on extending the use of Tasers would not be made until the results of a full report into the pilot scheme in May.

Derek Talbot, from the Association of Chief Police Officers (Acpo), said he welcomed the roll out following the "successful" 12 month trial.

In 85% of the 661 incidents involving Tasers during the trial, the situation was resolved without the weapon being fired, he said.

The Home Office says this shows they act as a powerful deterrent in preventing any escalation in violence.

[beldazar]

its awfull i know,,but if we dont riot they cant use them,,can they? :confused:
As long as we keep whatever we do within the law then they cant touch us

Joe, its not that simple. Ive seen video's of people drunk getting tasered when the normal restraint would have been more than enough. Sometimes a person is tasered for simply arguing :mad:

[gilly]

Is that right - a 50,000 volt shock? I thought your household mains supply was only 240 volts, & that's ample to kill you?

Oh, how I'd love to use J. Smith for target practice.

[simplysimon]

IN THE LEFT HAND

Home Secretary Jacqui Smith says they are safer for the police and public but human rights body Amnesty International has called them "potentially lethal".

Ms Smith said: "I am proud that we have one of the few police services around the world that does not regularly carry firearms and I want to keep it that way. "

AND IN THE RIGHT HAND


"An extra 6,000 Taser stun guns are to be used by police in England and Wales at a cost of £8m, the Home Office says."

So we know what you REALLY want then, don't we!

[dreamweaver]

"specially trained"

By that I presume they mean they're shown which end they're supposed to be pointing at the public. :mad:

[grenadene]

That's my neck of the woods but I can't think what trouble they might be expecting/provoking up here? Unless they expect the guys at Immingham refinery to start protesting again.

Also I'm a bit worried that the term 'protesting' has recently become interchangeable with 'rioting' ?, Maybe they want us to think they are prepared for us if we take to the streets (holding hands of course :D) when in fact they are shitting themselves. Hmmm double bluff or not?

[darkman]

instead now we not sheep in a pen
as they will use these as cattle prods for the masses

[simplysimon]

Hmm, just had a thought, I wonder what the effect of a tazer is when people are holding hands? Wouldn't the shock be dissipated across multiple people at reduced voltage?

[beldazar]

Hmm, just had a thought, I wonder what the effect of a tazer is when people are holding hands? Wouldn't the shock be dissipated across multiple people at reduced voltage?


Good question! We will have to keep one finger on the cop then :cool:

[simplysimon]

Good question! We will have to keep one finger on the cop then :cool:

Just found this on t'interweb (http://heavens-defense.blogspot.com/2004/12/taser-story.html) :(

Right at the bottom

[beldazar]

Just found this on t'interweb (http://heavens-defense.blogspot.com/2004/12/taser-story.html) :(

Right at the bottom


Ah shit, Simplysimon, I nearly didnt read all of that, I started to feel very sick

This is full-on torture they are using, no other word for it, not forgetting it can kill too!

So it does work if you touch someone, what happens if you are holding a baby or are touching someone that is?

This needs to get circulated, and quick!

[naturalcanvas]

Here is a film of a lady being taserd for a traffic violation. Please don't watch if your easily upset. It makes me feel totally sick.

Police Taser a woman for a traffic violation - YouTube

[clozaril]

adding this the police chief who volunterred to be tasered to show they are 'ok' committed suicide althought there was plenty of other incidents to be bumped off


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/4650645.stm


http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21875

[tjohn]

Hmm, just had a thought, I wonder what the effect of a tazer is when people are holding hands? Wouldn't the shock be dissipated across multiple people at reduced voltage?Nope. The 50,000 voltage is across two needle sharp points which are in the flesh and are only a few inches apart, so the voltage would not be spread by people holding hands - anyway, the person would be in such pain that he (or she) would not be holding hands.

BTW, if people wore a layer of aluminium foil in their clothing the voltage would be shorted out and the Tazer would be practically useless. What would the justification be for wearing foil? Tazers can cause more pain than can be imagined and are potentially lethal.

Facts:
The skin can be a fairly good insulator unless wet or a voltage high. If we stuck two needles through the skin and into the flesh (where the nerve endings are) and applied 5 volts we would feel it and at just 50 volts, it would be enough to make anyone shout out in pain.

If 50,000 volts were applied across the spinal chord, it would certainly cripple a person for life. If 50,000 volts were applied across the brain a person would be rendered brain dead. If say, just 100 volts were put across the heart it could stop the heart. Then what are they thinking of with using up to 50,000 volts???

Tazers are torture weapons that can and have killed (murdered) many people so far.

[dreamweaver]

Foil doesn't work, tjohn, it's been tested and actually makes the taser work more efficiently. Will have to find the link for you.

The only thing that has been proven to protect against tasers so far is Thor Shield fabric:

Thor Shield Anti-Taser/Anti-Microwave - YouTube

Unfortunately, the manufacturers will only supply to police and military organisations. But I'm sure this stuff will find its way on to the black market and someone will start copying it.

People will no doubt also start obtaining tasers themselves and turning them on the policy officers.

[tjohn]

Foil doesn't work, tjohn, it's been tested and actually makes the taser work more efficiently. Will have to find the link for you. Please do, because (after over 30 years of experience in electronics and electrics) I know that as long as the current (not the voltage and there is a big difference) is not high enough to melt or vaporise the foil, the foil would short out (bypass) the Tazer and render it much less effective or practically useless. The only thing that has been proven to protect against tasers so far is Thor Shield fabric:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y__ZmYhtbzoUnfortunately, the manufacturers will only supply to police and military organisations. But I'm sure this stuff will find its way on to the black market and someone will start copying it. http://www.thorshield.com/ ... and they are trying to sell something.
People will no doubt also start obtaining tasers themselves and turning them on the policy officers.Possibly... but the police and military would be protected by the 'Thor Shield fabric' or something similar...

[dreamweaver]

Please do, because (after over 30 years of experience in electronics and electrics) I know that as long as the current (not the voltage and there is a big difference) is not high enough to melt or vaporise the foil, the foil would short out (bypass) the Tazer and render it much less effective or practically useless.

http://www.halfbakery.com/idea/Tasers
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080709212255AAjT1kV

You do know that those barbs can penetrate up to two inches of clothing, don't you? They can even go through kevlar, allegedly. Good luck with your tinfoil, I'd love to see you putting it to the test. I'm sure it can be arranged with a police force somewhere in the UK. Let's do it and put it on YouTube.

And yes, of course the makers of ThorShield are selling something. Successfully. And to the police and military only. Now are you up for this test of your tinfoil theory?

[tjohn]

http://www.halfbakery.com/idea/Tasers
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080709212255AAjT1kV

You do know that those barbs can penetrate up to two inches of clothing, don't you? Yes I do know they penetrate the skin to the flesh below - but with the barbs shorted out beforehand, the Tazer is rendered ineffective.
Tasers

Neutralise the effect of tasers
(0) [vote for (http://www.halfbakery.com/idea/Tasers?op=aye),
against (http://www.halfbakery.com/idea/Tasers?op=nay)]
Am I being really stupid, or is it incredibly easy to counteract tasers with something you would find in your kitchen....conductive foil? Would wrapping yourself in this simply cause a short circuit taking all the current away from your body? If this is the case, then an item of clothing which has interwoven low-resistance material would be a valuable black market edition.

[dreamweaver]

Yes I do know they penetrate the skin to the flesh below - but with the barbs shorted out beforehand, the Tazer is rendered ineffective.

Can you guarantee that something as flimsy as foil wouldn't pull away from the needles under the force of the impact? I certainly wouldn't put my trust in it - and neither would you, it seems, since you've ignored the challenge.

Perhaps the best discussion of this is at http://www.newscientist.com/blog/lastword/2007/06/counter-taserism.html

[darkman]

im richard by the way as sudaname of course

#
hundreds of tasers to be given to humberside / lincolnshire police,DO WE HAVE HUNDREDS OF OFFICERS. ??
rob, grimsby
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commented on 21-Mar-2009 06:08
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VERY WELL SAID MIKE, GY. I personally would give EVERY Police Officer a taser gun. (Crikey that'll give the do-good whingers something to have a go at me for.) ROY.... it's the old fashioned approach that has got our crime statistics rocketing. The Police need REAL power to be able to stop a criminal (or victim as some idiot called them). We live in a virtually lawless society. MORE TASERS FOR THE POLICE! The Police will not use the taser on anyone who does not run from them. If you run you've obviously got something to hide & fully deserve 26 volts & more!!
Monkey, Up a Tree
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commented on 20-Mar-2009 16:52
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Richard and Roy, I would like to see you handle a dirty chav high on crack who thinks he can take on the world with his screwdriver using "old fashioned" or a softly softly approach. Get real you fools, this country is run by these thugs who have no fear for the consequences of their actions
mike, gy
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commented on 20-Mar-2009 09:32
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Excellent idea giving the police tasers. Police are not shown enough respect and seeing a chav get took down by the taser would be great......see if they think twice in the future! The only people who should be against this are those who have something to worry about when it comes to up - keeping the law.
Freddie, Grimsby
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commented on 20-Mar-2009 08:32
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Roy, Would your "old fashioned" methods involve things like being able to give them a quick clip round the back of the head, or a short sharp trip down the cell stairs? Personally I think that anything that's going to make the gobby little yobs running riot in the streets think twice is a good thing.
Paul, Grimsby
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commented on 20-Mar-2009 08:04
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Old fashionded policing included giving the yobs a "clip around the ear-'ole" before dragging them home for another from their parents. Can't happen - on either point. The police have slowly had their authority eroded by do-gooders and an ineffectual justice system - about time they were given more muscle.
Annie, Cleethorpes
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commented on 20-Mar-2009 08:03
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well said roy .
sharron, ere
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commented on 20-Mar-2009 07:52
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Excellent - might make some little Chav think twice before gobbing off and acting in a threatening way towards others if he thinks he is going to get a quick jolt up his jaxey.
Marcus, Grimsby
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commented on 20-Mar-2009 07:23
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From what I have seen personally they do not need any more weapons, they already act like Hitlers storm troopers. They do not need any more encouragement. They really need training in the old fashioned policing methods that really worked. That way they could maybe regain the respect of the public.
Roy, Immingham, UK
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commented on 20-Mar-2009 07:01
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well thats it folks our civil liberties gone to those in power
we have never needed taser and why do we need them now
are these officer gonig to be trained in fire arms ... couse that was it is really
and will it be used willy nilly just to get there guy down
as a gun ho attitude will stem with officers so lazy to give chase and cathc there vicitm . i should hope there will public out cry if some 1 is tazerd with 20,000 volts up there behind for no apprent reason
other than the cops want to use them , QUESTIONS ON A POST CARD
richard, grim
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commented on 19-Mar-2009 20:29
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At least the police gun men won't kill eveyone they shoot with a taser
nigel, town
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commented on 19-Mar-2009 20:07


i live in a town full of sheeple willing to have these tasers i did write more comments but the papaer would,nt print them or edit them

[dreamweaver]

Darkman, unfortunately these people are constantly fed images of 'chavs' getting away with crimes because our poor police and courts too tied up with red tape and pesky human rights lawyers.

So inevitably they think these tasers are only going to be used on these "other people". It hasn't occurred to them that they are the very people who are going to be on the receiving end of these torture instruments when TSHTF.

Remember out there in the dreamworld, most people still think the economy will "bounce back" like it did after the 80s and 90s recessions. It hasn't quite sunk in what lies ahead yet...

[darkman]

Darkman, unfortunately these people are constantly fed images of 'chavs' getting away with crimes because our poor police and courts too tied up with red tape and pesky human rights lawyers.

So inevitably they think these tasers are only going to be used on these "other people". It hasn't occurred to them that they are the very people who are going to be on the receiving end of these torture instruments when TSHTF.

Remember out there in the dreamworld, most people still think the economy will "bounce back" like it did after the 80s and 90s recessions. It hasn't quite sunk in what lies ahead yet...

to true dreamweaver
once they get out of there ivory towers and see we are all the same on the street when their shit hits the fan later this year . thing is tho who will survive it them or us, i know where will be , healing them wounds when they find out

[tjohn]

Good question! We will have to keep one finger on the cop then :cool:That would accuse us of assault!

[tjohn]

Can you guarantee that something as flimsy as foil wouldn't pull away from the needles under the force of the impact? I certainly wouldn't put my trust in it - and neither would you, it seems, since you've ignored the challenge.

Perhaps the best discussion of this is at http://www.newscientist.com/blog/lastword/2007/06/counter-taserism.htmlSigh...
1) I wouldn't want those needles in me with or without the 50,000 volts.
2) The electric current needs a return path for it to be an electric current and that's why there are two wires with the Tazer - both of which when going through the foil would be shorted out - i.e. the electricity would go through the foil between those two points, instead of going through the person. Any gap around the holes would limit the voltage to a much lower level.
3) Tell me how the foil will pull away?

[gilly]

Ahh, bless 'em - they're frightened we'll take their tasers off 'em & give 'em a taste of their own medicine...

(From Sprartan Cops - aiming to help cops, website)

http://www.spartancops.com/defeating-taser-combat/


Defeating the Taser in Combat
by Matt on March 2, 2009

I want to preface this article by acknowledging that I am uncomfortable in discussing the following tactics in an open forum, where potential criminals can access them. Realizing that criminals are already sharing their own tactics for defeating the Taser, I decided to go ahead and publish this article. I hope you find it helpful.

With Taser’s being sold to civilians and the potential of an officer having his Taser taken from him, it is only a matter of time before an officer is assaulted by a suspect with a Taser. Having taken a hit, I would feel completely justified in drawing my weapon and shooting a suspect threatening me with a Taser, but my first priority must be avoiding getting hit by the Taser while drawing my gun. Taser’s are extremely effective and can cause complete incapacitation, so what if anything can an officer do to fight back?

A moving target is hard to hit. Moving straight towards or away from the threat gives the appearance that you are standing still and makes you relatively easy to hit. If you can move laterally from the threat, you will be much harder to hit.
Know the effective range of the weapon. The law enforcement model, Taser X-26, has a maximum effective range of 25 feet and fires a 5-second cycle, while the civilian model, Taser C2, has a maximum effective range of 15 feet and fires a 30-second cycle. If you can position yourself outside the effective range of the weapon, you can avoid being hit.
Full incapacitation versus localized pain. If you are ambushed by a suspect armed with a Taser at close range and you do not have time to move far enough back to avoid the reach of the weapon, remember that the smaller the spread of the two prongs, the fewer muscle groups are disrupted. As a last option, you can move quickly towards the threat to limit the spread of the prongs. You must be prepared to control the suspect’s Taser to prevent a drive stun, while you neutralize the threat.
Face the threat. If you are hit, you need to concentrate on breaking the wires or removing a probe with your hand before you fall to the ground. You will have limited ability to move your arms, so focus on making a sweeping motion with your lower arm and rip the wires away from your body. This would be extremely hard to do if you are shot in the back by the probes. National Geographic has an excellent series called “Fight Science”. A recent episode featured former Navy Seal, Chris Caracci, attempting to defeat the Taser. Caracci had previously been exposed to the Taser, so he knew exactly what to expect. In this experiment, Caracci takes a few minutes to mentally prepare himself before taking the hit. In real life, you are going to be pumped full of adrenaline and you will not need to get psyched up. Watch the video here
Ride the lightning in a training environment. If you have never taken a voluntary exposure with the Taser, then good luck. As you try to deal with this new sensation, your OODA loop is going to be violently disrupted. While having been exposed before is no guarantee of success, it does give you a better understanding of what to expect and can give you a slight edge. Surviving an ambush situation is all about playing the odds and setting them in your favor as much as possible. If you know what to expect, you will be better prepared mentally to deal with the situation.
Above all else, adopt a survival mindset. Know that you will not die and refuse to lose the engagement. Even if you are incapacitated by the Taser, be prepared to continue fighting as soon as you regain the physical ability to do it.