True Christianity is the only Obstacle to the NWO

[titurel]

From the very well thought out article below:

"Christians, specifically, are cited as the main obstacle hindering the success of this New Age-New World Order."

---

The "new" world order or occult secret destiny?

The New Age Movement and Service to The Plan
Illuminati Conspiracy Archive
by Terry Melanson

Last updated: 2nd May 2005, ©2001

The New World Order as envisioned by the Elite is hardly a recent undertaking. Theirs is a philosophy rooted in ancient occult traditions. Success is near, and the infiltration of society by New Age occultism is the reason for this success. The New World Order has never been solely about world government, rather, from the beginning its proponents have been privy to secret doctrines and it is a spiritual plan more than anything.

If one failed to take into account the occult nature of the New World Order, they would be remiss. The UN and the New Age have been bed-fellows since the beginning. America's secret destiny is the product of Rosicrucian and Freemason forefathers. The New Atlantis as proposed in Francis Bacon's work is almost at hand. The Ancient Mysteries are being studied for illumination and enlightenment by the New World Order's elite. Not to mention the New Age gurus — dutifully recruiting on behalf of the Secret Brotherhood.

In 1980, Marylin Ferguson compiled and espoused a synthesis involving the theories of transformation and the secret plan of the Aquarian Age. In her studies of the scientific advancements of this age involving entropy and syntropy, holism, holographs, paradigm shifts, the uncertainty principle and evolution, she discovered that, "for the first time an American renaissance is taking place in all disciplines, breaking the boundaries between them, transforming them at their farthest reaches—where they all converge." (The Aquarian Conspiracy, p.12)

Speaking of the networks and web of influence, Ferguson proclaimed: "There are legions of conspirators... in corporations, universities, hospitals, on the faculties of public schools, in factories, in doctors' offices, in state and federal agencies, on city councils and the White House staff, in state organizations, in virtually all arenas of policy making in the country [U.S.]...[including] at the cabinet level of the United States Government." (ibid. p.24) However, other New Age proponents said that this is innacurate, in that she had understated the influence of the New Age worldwide, especially in the UN and the EEC.

It is no coincidence that America has become the center of New Age and New World Order conspiracies. The Theosophical and Rosicrucian traditions hold that every nation has a spiritual destiny guided by a hierarchy of beings using all ethical (or un-ethical) means of manifesting the "divine plan" through the will of the nation's leaders.

A proponent of the New Age and the Secret Brotherhood's plan for a New World Order is Robert Hieronimus. In his book "America's Secret Destiny", he traced the spiritual vision of America's founding fathers and the plan's eventual fruition in what we call the New World Order and the New Age Movement (both of which are synonymous). He stresses that the founding fathers of America had the equivalent of "Masters" and were pupils in a sense, much like today's powerful Elite have Masters and Gurus, following the teachings of the Great Plan.

According to Rosicrucians and Theosophists, supporting the divine plan are great beings refered to as masters of the physical and spiritual planes. The evolution of America owes much to the seed thoughts of four masters—Kuthumi, El Morya, Rogoczy, and Djwhal Khul. Some of the founders of America may have been consciously or unconsciously students of these teachers, just as some contemporary Americans are pupils of these masters. In fact, the motto of the heirarchy of world teachers is identical with America's destiny—the brotherhood of man and the Fatherhood of God. (p.95)

Another writer, from the opposite camp, confirms the assertions of Heironimus. Willy Peterson writes:

In order to reach their aims of world unity and thus engage the whole world in service to the Plan, "enlightened" Freemasons and New Agers have been pushing for collectivist motifs that promote monistic pantheism and unity. This is why the chief instigators to the globalist League of Nations and the United Nations have been Theosophists, trying to work out the plan. This is why the verbiage and aims at the U.N. is for world peace and brotherhood. It is a spiritual undertaking in a secular world. Lucis Trust has had three think-tanks located at the U.N. Plaza in New York for around fifty years. No wonder the former Assistant Secretary General to the U.N., Robert Muller, is a devoted disciple of Alice Bailey, whose book, A Treatise on White Magic, forms the basis for the Robert Muller schools. (The Leavening)

These people are called the torchbearers or lightbearers of the New World Order. A spiritual plan that has been traced to the time of Nimrod and the Tower of Babel, up through to the Illuminati and onwards. "A loosely-knit world conspiracy," David Allen Lewis writes, "a so called Network of Illuminists." "Whether the Illuminati has one special organization that is its orginal descendant... we can be very sure that its philosophical torchbearers are represented by literally hundreds of organizations and individuals in many diverse realms." (Dark Angels of Light)

A Blueprint For Destiny

Robert Heironomus says that "America's Great Seal may be seen as a blueprint for the elevation of consciousness. It says, in part, that we must transform ourselves before we can change the world, and that it is during the process of self-transformation that we can catch a glimpse of what part we are to play in national and global transformation."

The mandala of the New World Order and Illuminati control. "Annuit Coeptis—He has Blessed our Beginning", "Novus Ordo Seclorum—New Order of the Ages". The All-Seeing Eye of Horus, the resurrected Egyptian Sun God, biblically refered to as Lucifer, the angel of light.

In occult doctrine it is thought that "from the union of spirit and matter (the pyramid is made of stone, rock, and earth—and represents the unconscious. The capstone is made of an immaterial substance—light or spirit—and is conscious), a new being—a transformed being—is created. The seal's reverse depicts a separation state in the separation of the eye the triangle."

"The pyramid exemplifies the initiation stage... it is the house of initiation, in which the candidate confronts the world of darkness and enters the world of spirit. By passing the tests of the elements, the candidate is initiated into the realm of higher consciousness." (Heironimus ibid., p.92) After succesfully completing the initiation process, the candidate is reborn, and joins the single eye in the pyramid.

The New World Order, or rather the philosophy its deliverers hold to be true, is one and the same as the New Age ideal of man's divinity and self-transformation. In order to partake in this gnostic fufillment of "The Great Plan" one must awaken to the original sin of Lucifer, as proposed to Eve in the Garden of Eden, that "we can be as Gods." (Genesis 3:5) So it is not suprising to find that Christians, specifically, are cited as the main obstacle hindering the success of this New Age-New World Order.

The reason for this is the New Age belief in many "saviors" and "enlightened teachers", masters and gurus — its all good and fine when the goal is the false teaching of man's divinity. The New Agers see many ways to salvation; Christians proclaim that there is only one Way - Jesus Christ. "For the gate is small, and narrow that leads to life, and few are those who find it." (Matthew 7:14) The Bible states that this is in reality the "broad way that leads to destruction, and many are those who enter it." (Matthew 7:13) Therefore, the only religion not compatible with The New Age, and hence the coming New World Order, is the belief and strict adherence in the Word of God – with traditional Christianity being looked upon as particularly pernicious.

In Dark Secrets of the New Age, Texe Marrs wrote:

"The New Age is a universal open-arms religion that excludes from its ranks only those who believe in Jesus Christ and a Personal God. Buddhists, Shintoist, Satanists, Secular Humanists, witches, witch doctors and shamans — All who reject Christianity are invited to become trusted members of the New Age family. Worshippers of separate faiths and denominations are to be unified in a common purpose: THE GLORIFICATION OF MAN."

The Guardians of the Mysteries

Freemasonry, by its own accord, practices the ancient mysteries of Egypt, and has as a primary goal, the re-instatement of this mystery religion for the coming World Order.

"The magical mystery religion of Ancient Egypt exercised a great fascination over Renaissance man, which was incorporated into—the newly formed—Lodges at that time. The mysterious heiroglyphs were considered to be symbols of hidden knowledge. Symbols and gestures became a means of conveying secrets and "truths". The cosmos was seen as an organic unity. It was peopled by a hierarchy of spirits which exercised all kinds of influences and sympathies. The practice of magic became a holy quest." (Michael Rogge, "New Age Spirituality, The roots of the New Age Movement", Part I)

Back in 1927, Freemason W.L. Wilmhurst saw the dawning of the Aquarian Age as the fufillment of the "Plan". In "The Meaning of Masonry", p.4, he writes:

"In this new Aquarian age, when many individuals and groups are working in various ways for the eventual restoration of the mysteries, an increasing number of aspirants are beginning to recognize that Freemasonry may well be the vehicle for this achievement."

He would be well proud, I'm sure, of today's mainstream acceptance of those very same occult mysteries. Another passage on page 46-47, proves the teaching of Freemasonry is the same as New Age beliefs:

"He begins his Masonic career as the natural man; he ends it by becoming through its discipline, a regenerated man... This the evolution of man into superman—was always the purpose of the ancient Mysteries, and the real purpose of modern Masonry is, not the social and charitable purposes to which so much attention is paid, but the expediting of the spiritual evolution of those who aspire to perfect their own nature and transform it into a more god-like quality."

"Freemasonry, through its mysteries, will soon usher in a New World Religion for the New World Order. A modern day Tower of Babel and the ultimate unification of the world's religions. The New Age welcomes these goals and looks to the "light" of Masonry as its esoteric basis for occult initiation into the New World Order."

Benjamin Creme writes:

"The New Religion will manifest, for instance, through organizations like Masonry. In Freemasonry is embedded the core or the secret heart of the occult mysteries, wrapped up on number, metaphor and symbol..." ("The Reappearance of the Christ and the Masters of Wisdom", p.87)

Freemason and co-founder of Lucifer Publishing Company (now called Lucis Trust), Foster Bailey, 33rd degree Freemason and wife of Alice Bailey, concured:

"Is it not possible from a contemplation of this side of Masonic teaching that it may provide all that is necessary for the formulation of a universal religion?" ("The Spirit of Masonry", p.113)

Foster Bailey states that Masonry "is the descendant of, or is founded upon, a divinely imparted religion..." This religion he explains, "...was the first United World Religion. Then came the era of separation of many religions and sectarianism. Today we are working again towards a World Universal Religion." (ibid p.31)

To biblical students these are shocking admissions and it adds fuel to the charge of a Masonic Antichrist in our midst. "It is these Mysteries which Christ will restore upon His reapearance," Alice Bailey reveals, "thus reviving the churches in a new form, and restoring the hidden Mystery." ("The Reappearance of the Christ", p. 122)

Bailey was giving these "revelations" by her channeled Master Djwhal Khul — a disembodied "Ascended Master". Her "Christ" is indeed the Antichrist in the strictest sense of the word. Antichrist means substitute for or in place of Christ. She goes on to say:

"These ancient Mysteries were originally given to humanity by the Hierarchy [of which Djwhal Khul is a part of] and contain the entire clue to the evolutionary process, hidden in numbers, in ritual, in words and in symbology; these veil the secret of man's origin and destiny, picturing to him in rite and ritual, the long, long path which he must tread, back into the light." (ibid, p.121-22)

So what do we have here?

* The New Age tells its disciples that they are working for the Hierarchy.

* The teachings of the New Age are giving by the Hierarchy.

* The movement for the installement of the Antichrist is giving the go-ahead by the Hierarchy

* Djwhal Khul's number one message for New Age disciples is "prepare men for the reappearance of the Christ. This is your first duty." (The Externalization of the Hierarchy, p.614)

* The Ancient Mysteries, being practiced by both Freemasonry and the New Age, were giving to humanity by the Hierarchy.

* The real purpose of Masonry — taught to man, from the Hierarchy — is the expediting of the spiritual evolution, to transform their nature into a god-like superman.

* The Serpent caused the Fall in the Garden of Eden by giving Eve this very same message.

"Man is a god in the making. And as the mystic myths of Egypt, on the potter's wheel, he is being molded. When his light shines out to lift and preserve all things, he receives the triple crown of godhood." (Manly P. Hall, The Lost Keys of Freemasonry, p.92)

"European mysticism was not dead at the time the United States of America was founded. The hand of the mysteries controlled in the establishment of the new government for the signature of the mysteries may still be seen on the Great Seal of the United states of America. Careful analysis of the seal discloses a mass of occult and masonic symbols chief among them, the so-called American Eagle. ... the American eagle upon the Great Seal is but a conventionalised phoenix...

"Not only were many of the founders of the United States government Masons, but they received aid from a secret and august body existing in Europe which helped them to establish this country for A PECULIAR AND PARTICULAR PURPOSE known only to the intiated few." (Manly P. Hall, The Secret Teachings of All Ages, pp.40-41)

[john white]

Well thats all great and jim dandy: as long as one's vision believes history started 2000 years ago

The trouble is, it didnt, and Christianity is as occult and as "New Age" as all the rest of them: becuase literally there is no "new age": merely fresh perspectives, or even more accurately the appearance of fresh perspectives on the same universe: it all (the abrahamic knowledge stream of which Judaism, christianity and Islam are all offshoots) goes back to Hermes Trig

I am interested in why "Unity" is such a fearful prospect for adherants of a religion all about love though

[titurel]

Well thats all great and jim dandy: as long as one's vision believes history started 2000 years ago

The trouble is, it didnt, and Christianity is as occult and as "New Age" as all the rest of them: becuase literally there is no "new age": merely fresh perspectives, or even more accurately the appearance of fresh perspectives on the same universe: it all (the abrahamic knowledge stream of which Judaism, christianity and Islam are all offshoots) goes back to Hermes Trig

I am interested in why "Unity" is such a fearful prospect for adherants of a religion all about love though
There cannot be unity in the present Matrix because I will never submit to being ONE with Reptilians and the architects of the political NWO and their admirers and followers! That is why present unity is such a dreadful prospect.

Btw, who said history only started 2000 years ago? I certainly have never said so!

Occult has several meanings. Sure the Bible contains occult knowledge but the occult that's forbidden by the Bible is the term occult when it refers to procedures and the following of beliefs that leads to empowering Reptilian beings, which seems like sensible guidance to me.

The Bible does predict a new age because God foresees and shares with us the knowledge that the Reptilian agenda will fail and Reptilians will no longer have influence over the world. That's the new age God envisages for us. God's new age is the direct opposite of the political new age that Luciferian New Agers are physically trying to bring about because the New Age that Luciferians are trying to achieve will be placed in the lap of the Reptilians who are currently inspiring and guiding our world leaders from behind the scenes!

[bigus_dickus]

Occult has several meanings. Sure the Bible contains occult knowledge

which is?

[titurel]

which is?
Do you have an Oxford English Dictionary or any good dictionary at hand? Could you look up "occult" as it would save me having to type all the definitions for occult they all give. I'm afraid I've been spoilt by being able to copy and paste for so long! LOL!

[bigus_dickus]

Do you have an Oxford English Dictionary or any good dictionary at hand? Could you look up "occult" as it would save me having to type all the definitions for occult they all give. I'm afraid I've been spoilt by being able to copy and paste for so long! LOL!

here you go

occult (http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=occult&searchmode=none)
1533, "secret, not divulged," from L. occultus "hidden, concealed, secret," pp. of occulere "cover over, conceal," from ob "over" + a verb related to celare "to hide," from PIE base *kel- (see cell). Meaning "not apprehended by the mind, beyond the range of understanding" is from 1545. The association with the supernatural sciences (magic, alchemy, astrology, etc.) dates from 1633.

and

cell (http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=cell&searchmode=none)
c.1131, "small room," from L. cella "small room, hut," related to L. celare "to hide, conceal," from PIE base *kel- "conceal" (cf. Skt. cala "hut, house, hall;" Gk. kalia "hut, nest," kalyptein "to cover," koleon "sheath," kelyphos "shell, husk;" L. cella "store room," clam "secret;" O.Ir. cuile "cellar," celim "hide," M.Ir. cul "defense, shelter;" Goth. hulistr "covering," O.E. heolstor "lurking-hole, cave, covering," Goth. huljan "cover over," hulundi "hole," hilms "helmet," halja "hell," O.E. hol "cave," holu "husk, pod"). Earliest sense is for monastic rooms, then prison rooms (1722). Used in biology 17c., but not in modern sense until 1845. Meaning "small group of people working within a larger organization" is from 1925. Cellphone is from 1984.

[titurel]

here you go

occult (http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=occult&searchmode=none)
1533, "secret, not divulged," from L. occultus "hidden, concealed, secret," pp. of occulere "cover over, conceal," from ob "over" + a verb related to celare "to hide," from PIE base *kel- (see cell). Meaning "not apprehended by the mind, beyond the range of understanding" is from 1545. The association with the supernatural sciences (magic, alchemy, astrology, etc.) dates from 1633.

and

cell (http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=cell&searchmode=none)
c.1131, "small room," from L. cella "small room, hut," related to L. celare "to hide, conceal," from PIE base *kel- "conceal" (cf. Skt. cala "hut, house, hall;" Gk. kalia "hut, nest," kalyptein "to cover," koleon "sheath," kelyphos "shell, husk;" L. cella "store room," clam "secret;" O.Ir. cuile "cellar," celim "hide," M.Ir. cul "defense, shelter;" Goth. hulistr "covering," O.E. heolstor "lurking-hole, cave, covering," Goth. huljan "cover over," hulundi "hole," hilms "helmet," halja "hell," O.E. hol "cave," holu "husk, pod"). Earliest sense is for monastic rooms, then prison rooms (1722). Used in biology 17c., but not in modern sense until 1845. Meaning "small group of people working within a larger organization" is from 1925. Cellphone is from 1984.

LOL! Here are some more defintions for occult:

1. Of, relating to, or dealing with supernatural influences, agencies, or phenomena.

2. Beyond the realm of human comprehension; inscrutable.

3. Available only to the initiate; secret: occult lore. See synonyms at mysterious.

4. Hidden from view; concealed.

5. a) Medicine. Detectable only by microscopic examination or chemical analysis, as a minute blood sample.

b) Not accompanied by readily detectable signs or symptoms: occult carcinoma.n.Occult practices or techniques: a student of the occult.

[bigus_dickus]

alright. ;) so...

Sure the Bible contains occult knowledge

which is...?

[titurel]

alright. ;) so...

which is...?
For example, "seek and you shall find!"

Another: In one sense of the meaning of occult, there is a lot of Zodical hidden or occult knowledge in Revelation. But this definition of occult is not the more commonly used definition of occult, which is to do with conjuring up spirits, etc...

[bigus_dickus]

For example, "seek and you shall find!"

LOL!

Another: In one sense of the meaning of occult, there is a lot of Zodical hidden or occult knowledge in Revelation. But this definition of occult is not the more commonly used definition of occult, which is to do with conjuring up spirits, etc...

maybe it's so "occult" that you can't find it :)

[titurel]

LOL!



maybe it's so "occult" that you can't find it :)
That's actually the Catholic view of things because Catholicism is all about keeping up the veil and perpetuating the "inscrutable mystery". I disagree with Catholicism... "Seek and you will find" means that the hidden meanings can be revealed, for "the one that has ears to hear". :)

[bigus_dickus]

That's actually the Catholic view of things because Catholicism is all about keeping up the veil and perpetuating the "inscrutable mystery". I disagree with Catholicism... "Seek and you will find" means that the hidden meanings can be revealed, for "the one that has ears to hear". :)

it can also have another meaning, which is "whatever you seek, you will find".

i am not fond of catholicism either. however these phrases by jesus are not about hidden meanings.. but about human understanding. everyone has ears that hear, but this is a metaphor and what he means is mind, not ears.

[baron von lotsov]

Typical of the nature of such a forum that is actually frequented by a large number of people who are thinking they are awake while furthering the primary strategy to bring about the NWO. They can't even understand a simple word and divert the subject while completely ignoring the wealth of verifiable evidence presented in a first class article. Some of you are in denial!!!

[titurel]

it can also have another meaning, which is "whatever you seek, you will find".

i am not fond of catholicism either. however these phrases by jesus are not about hidden meanings.. but about human understanding. everyone has ears that hear, but this is a metaphor and what he means is mind, not ears.
Of course "to have ears to hear" is a metaphor because we're dealing with concepts!

"Let the one who has an ear hear what the spirit says to the congregations: To him that conquers I will give some of the hidden manna, and I will give him a white pebble, and upon the pebble a new name written which no one knows except the one receiving it." - Revelation 2: 17

[tinmenace]

Do you have an Oxford English Dictionary or any good dictionary at hand? Could you look up "occult" as it would save me having to type all the definitions for occult they all give. I'm afraid I've been spoilt by being able to copy and paste for so long! LOL!

Oh yay, now we're using dictionaries to for definitions. OK!

Re: This thread (http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5802&page=2) and the definition of religion



Merriam-Webster Online (http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/religion)

RELIGION

Main Entry: re·li·gion
Pronunciation: ri-'li-j&n
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English religioun, from Anglo-French religiun, Latin religion-, religio supernatural constraint, sanction, religious practice, perhaps from religare to restrain, tie back -- more at RELY
1 a : the state of a religious <a nun in her 20th year of religion> b (1) : the service and worship of God or the supernatural (2) : commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance
2 : a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices
3 archaic : scrupulous conformity : CONSCIENTIOUSNESS
4 : a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith
- re·li·gion·less adjective

[bigus_dickus]

Of course "to have ears to hear" is a metaphor because we're dealing with concepts!

"Let the one who has an ear hear what the spirit says to the congregations: To him that conquers I will give some of the hidden manna, and I will give him a white pebble, and upon the pebble a new name written which no one knows except the one receiving it." - Revelation 2: 17

this is wrong, where did you find it?

[titurel]

Oh yay, now we're using dictionaries to for definitions. OK!

Re: This thread (http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5802&page=2) and the definition of religion
There's nothing wrong with dictionary defintions and thanks for yours.

However, the Oxford English Dictionary states that football can also be a religion and that religion can also mean something one is passionate about.

I have never denied that some defintions of religion are negative but I wasn't referring to those kinds of religions.

The word "religion", therefore, has many meanings, as we all can see but I'm not religious about knocking any one dictionary defintion of religion out of the window.

[titurel]

this is wrong, where did you find it?
What do you mean? I gave the location where to find it in Revelation... here's the link:

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation%202:17;&version=31;

P.S.: The word "Churches", in the NIV translation, comes from the Greek word Ekklesia which doesn't mean Church, in the sense that is commonly understood of the word. It's a poor translation, the proper translation would be assembly of people.

.

[tinmenace]

There's nothing wrong with dictionary defintions and thanks for yours.

However, the Oxford English Dictionary states that football can also be a religion and that religion can also mean something one is passionate about.

I have never denied that some defintions of religion are negative but I wasn't referring to those kinds of religions.

The word "religion", therefore, has many meanings, as we all can see but I'm not religious about knocking any one dictionary defintion of religion out of the window.

Which is different to true spirituality and infinite love (devoid of religion), but you are trying to tie religion and spirituality together as one thing.

[bigus_dickus]

new international version? god damn it!

here is the original text:

῾Ο ἔχων οὖς ἀκουσάτω τί τὸ Πνεῦμα λέγει ταῖς ἐκκλη σίαις. Τῷ νικῶντι δώσω αὐτῷ φαγεῖν ἐκ τοῦ ξύλου τῆς ζωῆς, ὅ ἐστιν ἐν τῷ παραδείσῳ τοῦ Θεοῦ μου.

translation:

those who have an ear, listen to what the Spirit says to the congregations. to the victorious, i will give to eat from the tree of life, which is in my God's paradise.

[titurel]

new international version? god damn it!

here is the original text:

῾Ο ἔχων οὖς ἀκουσάτω τί τὸ Πνεῦμα λέγει ταῖς ἐκκλη σίαις. Τῷ νικῶντι δώσω αὐτῷ φαγεῖν ἐκ τοῦ ξύλου τῆς ζωῆς, ὅ ἐστιν ἐν τῷ παραδείσῳ τοῦ Θεοῦ μου.

translation:

those who have an ear, listen to what the Spirit says to the congregations. to the victorious, i will give to eat from the tree of life, which is in my God's paradise.
That is very interesting and exciting about the great Tree of Life! However, understanding of the tree of life is not exoteric. We are not born with the knowledge of the tree of life,, we are given it and until we are given it, it is hidden!

[bigus_dickus]

That is very interesting and exciting about the great Tree of Life! However, understanding of the tree of life is not exoteric. We are not born with the knowledge of the tree of life,, we are given it and until we are given it, it is hidden!

he says that the tree of life is in god's heaven, he doesn't say "hidden" or "secret". the tree of knowledge is another one, different from the tree of life. they are not literally trees, the word is "wood" but can only be understood as tree, as there is no wood with no tree..

[titurel]

he says that the tree of life is in god's heaven, he doesn't say "hidden" or "secret". the tree of knowledge is another one, different from the tree of life. they are not literally trees, the word is "wood" but can only be understood as tree, as there is no wood with no tree..
I understand what you're saying but until we are given the knowledge it cannot be known what it is, so it is hidden, but that doesn't mean its intended that it should always be hidden forever or that it shall always be a secret... "Seek and you will find..." If one genuinely seeks, one will be given it. The knowledge isn't given to everyone because not everyone genuinely seeks it. Many have the knowledge... you may have the knowledge but the subject is whether this knowledge is hidden before it's revealed... at which ever point that may be, depending on the individual.

[bigus_dickus]

I understand what you're saying but until we are given the knowledge it cannot be known what it is, so it is hidden, but that doesn't mean its intended that it should always be hidden forever or that it shall always be a secret... "Seek and you will find..." If one genuinely seeks, one will be given it. The knowledge isn't given to everyone because not everyone genuinely seeks it. Many have the knowledge... you may have the knowledge but the subject is whether this knowledge is hidden before it's revealed... at which ever point that may be, depending on the individual.

what is that "hidden" knowledge that you seek?

[titurel]

what is that "hidden" knowledge that you seek?
You ask what is the GRAIL?

That cannot be spoken; but if you yourself are called to its service, the knowledge will be revealed to you. Now look! I think I know you aright; no path leads to it through the land, and nobody finds their way there, unless the Grail itself leads them.

[titurel]

"I have many things yet to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. Although, when he, the Spirit of Truth is come, he will guide you into all truth." (John 16: 12 + 13)

"Nevertheless, I am telling you the truth, it is for your benefit I am going away. For if I do not go away, the helper will by no means come to you; but if I do go my way, I will send him to you. And when that one arrives he will give the world convincing evidence concerning sin and concerning righteousness and concerning judgement; in the first place concerning sin because they are not exercising faith in me; then concerning righteousness, because I am going to the father and you will behold me no longer; then concerning judgement because the ruler of this world has been judged. I have many things yet to say to you, but you are not able to bear them at present. However, when that one arrives, the spirit of truth, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak of his own impulse, but what he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things coming. That one will glorify me, because he will receive from what is mine and will declare it to you." (John 16: 7 - 14)

"But the helper, the holy spirit, which the Father shall send in my name, that one will teach you all things and bring back to your minds all the things I told you." (John 14: 26)

"...Nevertheless, when the Son of Man arrives, will he really find faith on the earth?" (Luke 18: 8)

"And I will request the Father and he will give you another helper to be with you forever." (John 14: 16)

[john white]

Another thing, if Christianity is the only obstical to the NWO, why is it busting to do over Islam? Would it, perchance, be to do with the fact Islam still forbids usery? Moreover, why did the illumies give buddism such a doing over when they sent the Chinese into Tibet?

Remarkable country Tibet. Used to be the most warlike nation in the world 2,500 years ago, with powerful warlords sending cavalry to terrorise all the way into western europe

Then turned its back on war almost overnight in a spiritual revolution and became a bastion of peace, negotiating settlements between all its neighbours

Just why did the NWO experiment called "The Cultural Revolution" (death toll @ 22 million) find this country of spiritual harmony and peace such a threat?

[kasalt]

In order to partake in this gnostic fufillment of "The Great Plan" one must awaken to the original sin of Lucifer, as proposed to Eve in the Garden of Eden, that "we can be as Gods." (Genesis 3:5) So it is not suprising to find that Christians, specifically, are cited as the main obstacle hindering the success of this New Age-New World Order.


If it is true that the "original sin of Lucifer" is that "we can be as gods", then how do you explain the following biblical quotes:

Psalm 82:6
I have said, Ye are gods...

John 10:33-34
The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

.......:confused:


The New Agers see many ways to salvation; Christians proclaim that there is only one Way - Jesus Christ. "For the gate is small, and narrow that leads to life, and few are those who find it." (Matthew 7:14) The Bible states that this is in reality the "broad way that leads to destruction, and many are those who enter it." (Matthew 7:13) Therefore, the only religion not compatible with The New Age, and hence the coming New World Order, is the belief and strict adherence in the Word of God – with traditional Christianity being looked upon as particularly pernicious...In Dark Secrets of the New Age, Texe Marrs wrote:

"The New Age is a universal open-arms religion that excludes from its ranks only those who believe in Jesus Christ...All who reject Christianity are invited to become trusted members of the New Age family. Worshippers of separate faiths and denominations are to be unified in a common purpose: THE GLORIFICATION OF MAN."

These rather fallacious claims completely overlook the fact that most Freemasons are also members in good standing within one denomination or another of "traditional Christianity". It also completely overlooks the existence of the world's approximately 1 billion Muslims, who are actually LESS likely than Christians to participate in some NWO "one-world religion".

I can just imagine hearing the Muslims chanting their Shahadah now, "There is no God but Allah, and Muhammad is his prophet!" --Not exactly a message that fits in with the idea of a "universal open-arms religion" of the "New Age". For that matter, you can add Sikhs and Zoroastrians to that list. And also add fundamentalist Hindus (yes, there is such a thing, they are actually quite common in India).

[seanx]

Who do people keep quoting the Bible?

The Bible has been re-written, re-written, re-written, re-written,
re-written and......RE-WRITTEN...so many times
- by EVERYBODY to suit their own interests ..that it is
meaningless to quote.

Look, here a terrible idea:

Throw it away....along with your Koran and whatever ....
dump the lot.

And then go to a quiet room.

Shut the door....

And go into the deepest silence of your heart and you'll find
all the ideas and guidance you need there.

Yes, it's a scary idea: you have your own internal guidance
system,

You don't need the Bible or the koran - or David Icke's
books.

But such a thing will TERRIFY all the organized religious people.

'No.'

'No.'

We can't do that. We are all uncontrollable,sinful, digusting
animals. We can't be left to our own devices. You're mad. You're
the Devil for saying that.

We need CONTROL, GUIDANCE, stern discipline..and eternal
PUNISHMENT if we don't do what we are told.

Pascal was right: "All of man's miseries derive from him not being able
to sit in a room alone"

[john white]

You don't need the Bible or the koran - or David Icke's
books.

But such a thing will TERRIFY all the organized religious people

Oh come on Seanx, we all know that cripples need crutches

If we believe we are crippled (original sin anyone?) we believe we need crutches

[rossus]

There cannot be unity in the present Matrix because I will never submit to being ONE with Reptilians and the architects of the political NWO and their admirers and followers! That is why present unity is such a dreadful prospect.
All in the world recognize the beautiful as beautiful.
Herein lies ugliness.
All recognize the good as good.
Herein lies evil.

the above is a quote from the Tao Teh Ching.
it explains that when you reject to love someone because he is not a loving person...
then you are doing the same mistake as him.

did jesus not say when someone hits you on the right cheek, give him your left cheek also?

the satanists such as those in the New World Order are not evil.
ofcourse they look evil, because they practice black magic... do other people harm... etcetera.

they are merely lost sheep.
and we should not hate them for being lost.
we should have unconditional love for them.
because in the core they are not evil.
in the core they are pure, just like everything and everyone else.
the whole universe exists from one and the same basic energy.
energy = love = consciousness = god = everything

this does not mean we should let ourselves get assraped by the satanists,
perhaps it's best to just kill them all.
but we should kill them with love in our hearts,

like the owner of a dog that is very violent to other people has to get his dog put to sleep.
he does not hate his dog, he loves the dog... even with his weakness.

evil is a disease... but it is only an illusion.
do not fall for the same illusion as the other illusioned ones have fallen for.

keep it simple and true.
no harm can come from love.
:)

[mk72]

Christianity and the "esoteric Egyptian religion" it the same thing! Christianity was the creation of the NWO so how can it be an obsticacle to it? The tree of life and knowledge are esoteric terms for alchemical transformation in humans fron lead to gold - the transformation of a human into a higher spriritual being, physically changing your blood into the blood (quality) of Christ into a higher state of being - the holy grail.

[baron von lotsov]

Christianity and the "esoteric Egyptian religion" it the same thing! Christianity was the creation of the NWO so how can it be an obsticacle to it? The tree of life and knowledge are esoteric terms for alchemical transformation in humans fron lead to gold - the transformation of a human into a higher spriritual being, physically changing your blood into the blood (quality) of Christ into a higher state of being - the holy grail.


That's the biggest load of bullshit I have heard all day. No reasons, just the standard spiel that you have probably read in the millions of disinfo books.

[titurel]

Oh come on Seanx, we all know that cripples need crutches

If we believe we are crippled (original sin anyone?) we believe we need crutches
You don't need to read this forum either, let alone Icke books or the Bible but if one wants to understand as much as possible of our place in creation, learning how to see the bigger picture and thus avoiding fallacious beliefs and paths..., it's wise to read as much as possible, so I wouldn't obviously promote the non-reading of books or the not gaining of knowledge. It's actually a Catholic instinct to advocate not looking into books. Why do you think they opposed translating texts and later, the printing press? I'm amazed at how many people on this forum rightly criticise organised religions and yet they display the same psychological traits as many Catholics! LOL! The Catholic objection to studying books in order to gain ones own understanding can often be very subtle!

[titurel]

Christianity and the "esoteric Egyptian religion" it the same thing! Christianity was the creation of the NWO so how can it be an obsticacle to it? The tree of life and knowledge are esoteric terms for alchemical transformation in humans fron lead to gold - the transformation of a human into a higher spriritual being, physically changing your blood into the blood (quality) of Christ into a higher state of being - the holy grail.
Orgainised Christianity is not only the old esoteric ancient Egyptian religion but it also the ancient Babylonian! The Bible however exposes this situation. The ancient Babylonian and Egyptian religions, which are based on worshipping the Creation, are opposed to what the Bible is intrinsically about.

[tinmenace]

Could you please answer me a question about the bible?

According to the bible, Adam was created first, then Eve. They had two sons, Cain and Abel. The bible doesn't talk about the creation of any further females in the beginning. How then did these people populate the Earth without corrupting the DNA?

[titurel]

Who do people keep quoting the Bible?

The Bible has been re-written, re-written, re-written, re-written,
re-written and......RE-WRITTEN...so many times
- by EVERYBODY to suit their own interests ..that it is
meaningless to quote.
It used to be said that the Bible couldn't possible accurately transmit its message through time, because of copying errors and scribal political insertions. This was a prevalent academic (i.e. "Bible scholar") belief in the 19th century and early 20th century. Then the dead sea scrolls were discovered, with an entirely intact "Book of Isaiah". (23 foot long leather scroll.) In fact, every book in the OT except the Esther is there in varying degrees of intactness. And guess what. The Qumran Isaiah text was almost identical to the Masoretic texts of the 10th century which map to the OT. The "errors" are primarily either spelling or style, with occasional "lacunae" which are small holes in the leather that obliterate a single letter where they occur. Matching the Qumran Isaiah to the Masoretic text, which is nearly identical, the occasional lacunae caused missing letter could be mapped. In no case -- zero % -- did any of the trivial differences change the message of Isaiah at all. Nada. Zip. A detailed scholarly (and nitpicky) analysis of the Qumran Isaiah can be found here:

http://www.ao.net/~fmoeller/qum-1.htm

Therefore, based on what we know of oral cultures, plus what we now know about the accuracy of written transmission based on comparison to the Qumran texts, it is no longer a valid academic view that we can't know what they originally meant.

God promised to preserve his Word:

"The words of the LORD are pure words,
Like silver tried in a furnace of earth,
Purified seven times.
You shall keep them, O LORD,
You shall preserve them from this generation forever.
The wicked prowl on every side,
When vileness is exalted among the sons of men." - Psalm 12:6-8

Look, here a terrible idea:

Throw it away....along with your Koran and whatever ....
dump the lot.
Throw books away and become uninformed? I don't think that's a good idea because then you have to rely on others opinions are on the books that you've thrown away and how can one check those opinions are correct if one has thrown those books away? Your advice doesn't make sense to me, sorry!

And then go to a quiet room.

Shut the door....

And go into the deepest silence of your heart and you'll find
all the ideas and guidance you need there.

Yes, it's a scary idea: you have your own internal guidance
system,
I agree but one can meditate privatley in the silence of ones heart without throwing books away.

But such a thing will TERRIFY all the organized religious people.
All organised religions are a trap, IMO...

[titurel]

Could you please answer me a question about the bible?

According to the bible, Adam was created first, then Eve. They had two sons, Cain and Abel. The bible doesn't talk about the creation of any further females in the beginning. How then did these people populate the Earth without corrupting the DNA?
Yes, that is the classical question isn't it? I'm one of those people who believes that Adam and Eve were "not" the "first and only people on earth" during that time. Why? Because I think the Bible is about "one man's family". It's not about what was happening with the rest of the globe at that time.

One might interpret that mankind was created on the 6th day, but when Adam is mentioned it is not until after God rested on the 7th day. One might say that Adam was created after the 7th day. (I don't believe these were 24-hour days, but "ages".)

Cain went "east". He took a wife. Where did she come from? And who was Cain worried about that might kill him when he was exiled? Who were the "daughters of men" as distinct from the "sons of God?

Many Christians like to teach that brother married sister, etc., but I don't think so. And when we read Numbers, it's clear that God states that men and women are not supposed to marry within the fourth generation. That incest was an abomination among the heathen and they (God's people) were not to practice it.

Also, the word brother or sister in the Hebrew language doesn't necessarilyy mean "an immediate family member". It can also mean cousin, neighbor, or fellow countryman.

Genesis states: "he (God) made them male and female and called "their" name Adam which suggests it was a whole tribe of people called Adam or "Adamites".

Adam was singled out as special or separate and distinct from the rest. After the birth of Seth, it states "then men began to call upon the name of God". It suggests that only the descendants of Seth did this.
A careful reading of Genesis along with the original Chaldee and Hebrew will reveal some very interesting things.

Also, the word "garden" in the original Hebrew means "walled enclosure" or "walled city". And the "garden" was placed "eastward in Eden", suggesting that Eden was a very large region and the garden was only a small portion of Eden.

[titurel]

All in the world recognize the beautiful as beautiful.

Herein lies ugliness.
All recognize the good as good.
Herein lies evil.

the above is a quote from the Tao Teh Ching.
it explains that when you reject to love someone because he is not a loving person...
then you are doing the same mistake as him.

did jesus not say when someone hits you on the right cheek, give him your left cheek also?
:)
I agree that we should extend love to our enemies also but that doesn't mean I should be ONE with those who follow the Reptilian agenda.

[mk72]

That's the biggest load of bullshit I have heard all day. No reasons, just the standard spiel that you have probably read in the millions of disinfo books.

Could not expect anything less from you. You're usual response when you don't agree with someone's point of view. Thanks for not dissapointing me.;)

[mk72]

Yes, that is the classical question isn't it? I'm one of those people who believes that Adam and Eve were "not" the "first and only people on earth" during that time. Why? Because I think the Bible is about "one man's family". It's not about what was happening with the rest of the globe at that time.

One might interpret that mankind was created on the 6th day, but when Adam is mentioned it is not until after God rested on the 7th day. One might say that Adam was created after the 7th day. (I don't believe these were 24-hour days, but "ages".)

Cain went "east". He took a wife. Where did she come from? And who was Cain worried about that might kill him when he was exiled? Who were the "daughters of men" as distinct from the "sons of God?

Many Christians like to teach that brother married sister, etc., but I don't think so. And when we read Numbers, it's clear that God states that men and women are not supposed to marry within the fourth generation. That incest was an abomination among the heathen and they (God's people) were not to practice it.

Also, the word brother or sister in the Hebrew language doesn't necessarilyy mean "an immediate family member". It can also mean cousin, neighbor, or fellow countryman.

Genesis states: "he (God) made them male and female and called "their" name Adam which suggests it was a whole tribe of people called Adam or "Adamites".

Adam was singled out as special or separate and distinct from the rest. After the birth of Seth, it states "then men began to call upon the name of God". It suggests that only the descendants of Seth did this.
A careful reading of Genesis along with the original Chaldee and Hebrew will reveal some very interesting things.

Also, the word "garden" in the original Hebrew means "walled enclosure" or "walled city". And the "garden" was placed "eastward in Eden", suggesting that Eden was a very large region and the garden was only a small portion of Eden.


I understand your interpretations, and can see that you studied this thoroughly and please don’t think that I’m trying to convince you that you’re believes are wrong – I want to hear your views and interpretations. If Christ is the basis for Christianity than how do you (personally) get around the fact that it is based on a pre-Christian religions ?

[baron von lotsov]

Could not expect anything less from you. You're usual response when you don't agree with someone's point of view. Thanks for not dissapointing me.;)

How can a religion be based on something that one of its most fundamental tenets is completely opposed to, namely worshipping false idols? Either you are that stupid or you are promulgating intentional disinfo. Either way I have zero respect for your kind of moron.

[mk72]

How can a religion be based on something that one of its most fundamental tenets is completely opposed to, namely worshipping false idols? Either you are that stupid or you are promulgating intentional disinfo. Either way I have zero respect for your kind of moron.

The whole point of this religion was to create a believe in something that it's creators not only made up but a mirror image of their secret teachings and therefore opposed to. The true meaning is kept from the masses.

The words of Scottish Rite Freemason Albert Pike make the situation clear:

Masonry, like all the religions, all Mysteries, Hermeticism, and Alchemy, conceals its secrets from all except the Adepts and Sages, or the Elect, and uses false explanations and misinterpretations of its symbols to mislead those who deserve to be mislead; to conceal the Truth, which it calls Light, from them, and to draw them away from it...The Teachers, even of Christianity, are, in general, the most ignorant of the true meaning of that which they teach. There is no book of which so little is known as the Bible...Masonry jealously conceals its secrets, and intentionally leads conceited interpreters astray - Albert Pike (Morals and Dogma, 1871)

[human]

because God foresees and shares with us the knowledge that the Reptilian agenda will fail and Reptilians will no longer have influence over the world.

So I guess there's nothing to worry about then.

"TRUE" christianity is nothing more than astrological theology. Believers in Jesus is not stopping the "Reptillians" as you claim to know that is what the Illuminati are.

Belief in Christianity has helped the N.W.O. weaken the minds of people in to believing anything and become docile and afraid to understand the ancient wisdom of the past which they all call the "Occult" as to mean satanic or evil...LOL. There is a reason why certain teachings were hidden (Occult) from people, that is because if they were pirvy to the teachings they would no they are much, much more than just what the church tells them they are and they would no they never needed a mediator to understand the higher order of this universe. You only help the N.W.O. by telling people "true christianity is the only obstacle", I guess the entire world should become christians and all this will end right?...Lol. Only a christian would post something like this.

[baron von lotsov]

The whole point of this religion was to create a believe in something that it's creators not only made up but a mirror image of their secret teachings and therefore opposed to. The true meaning is kept from the masses.

The words of Scottish Rite Freemason Albert Pike make the situation clear:

Masonry, like all the religions, all Mysteries, Hermeticism, and Alchemy, conceals its secrets from all except the Adepts and Sages, or the Elect, and uses false explanations and misinterpretations of its symbols to mislead those who deserve to be mislead; to conceal the Truth, which it calls Light, from them, and to draw them away from it...The Teachers, even of Christianity, are, in general, the most ignorant of the true meaning of that which they teach. There is no book of which so little is known as the Bible...Masonry jealously conceals its secrets, and intentionally leads conceited interpreters astray - Albert Pike (Morals and Dogma, 1871)


Yes but he was a Satanist and true Christianity is something no Satanist can tolerate. Sure there is corruption in it but anyone with a reasonable amount of intelligence can understand what it is about. It does not weaken, indeed it strengthens a person. If in any doubt ask yourself whom people are more likely to believe. Is it someone who believes in speaking the truth and being moral or someone who believes in controlling others for their own gain? This is why the Illuminati want to phase it out and especially the version they refer to as fundamentalism. What that actually means is one who is true to the religion rather than says the Catholic Church, which departs from certain aspects, especially their wealth and their use as a tool of the state.

[john white]

This is why the Illuminati want to phase it out and especially the version they refer to as fundamentalism

LOL! Baron, I swear your brains wired backwards

Fundamentalism is a scourge on chrisitianity, and a definate source of evil in this world. Its all about hate, condemnation, forced obiediance and egoic boosting. If ever a sect of christianity was the work of satan, its the satanic energy of fundamentalism

No wonder your so loveless and hate women and sensitive men

Satan has you Baron

[mk72]

Yes but he was a Satanist and true Christianity is something no Satanist can tolerate. Sure there is corruption in it but anyone with a reasonable amount of intelligence can understand what it is about. It does not weaken, indeed it strengthens a person. If in any doubt ask yourself whom people are more likely to believe. Is it someone who believes in speaking the truth and being moral or someone who believes in controlling others for their own gain? This is why the Illuminati want to phase it out and especially the version they refer to as fundamentalism. What that actually means is one who is true to the religion rather than says the Catholic Church, which departs from certain aspects, especially their wealth and their use as a tool of the state.


Yes - this satanist is telling you (baron) that they are leading you (conceited interpreters) intentionally astray.

[baron von lotsov]

LOL! Baron, I swear your brains wired backwards

Fundamentalism is a scourge on chrisitianity, and a definate source of evil in this world. Its all about hate, condemnation, forced obiediance and egoic boosting. If ever a sect of christianity was the work of satan, its the satanic energy of fundamentalism

No wonder your so loveless and hate women and sensitive men

Satan has you Baron


Yes and it's all by design to dissuade people from following the Bible as it is written rather than accept some interpretation of it. E.g. homosexuals are definitely out if you follow the Bible, as are women priests. Jesus did not have any women disciples and it says that women are not capable of connecting with God like man is. I think it talks about them of being 'of the flesh' or something of that kind. I'm not a great Bible scholar by any stretch but even I can get a fair picture of what it is about.

It scares the daylights out of demonic entities and when those entities are controlling some person afflicted by the occult it makes them go crazy too. We have had many examples on this forum.

[tinmenace]

Yes, that is the classical question isn't it? I'm one of those people who believes that Adam and Eve were "not" the "first and only people on earth" during that time. Why? Because I think the Bible is about "one man's family". It's not about what was happening with the rest of the globe at that time.

One might interpret that mankind was created on the 6th day, but when Adam is mentioned it is not until after God rested on the 7th day. One might say that Adam was created after the 7th day. (I don't believe these were 24-hour days, but "ages".)

Cain went "east". He took a wife. Where did she come from? And who was Cain worried about that might kill him when he was exiled? Who were the "daughters of men" as distinct from the "sons of God?

Many Christians like to teach that brother married sister, etc., but I don't think so. And when we read Numbers, it's clear that God states that men and women are not supposed to marry within the fourth generation. That incest was an abomination among the heathen and they (God's people) were not to practice it.

Also, the word brother or sister in the Hebrew language doesn't necessarilyy mean "an immediate family member". It can also mean cousin, neighbor, or fellow countryman.

Genesis states: "he (God) made them male and female and called "their" name Adam which suggests it was a whole tribe of people called Adam or "Adamites".

Adam was singled out as special or separate and distinct from the rest. After the birth of Seth, it states "then men began to call upon the name of God". It suggests that only the descendants of Seth did this.
A careful reading of Genesis along with the original Chaldee and Hebrew will reveal some very interesting things.

Also, the word "garden" in the original Hebrew means "walled enclosure" or "walled city". And the "garden" was placed "eastward in Eden", suggesting that Eden was a very large region and the garden was only a small portion of Eden.

I think it's clear from this example that we cannot take anything from the bible as absolute truth because as you can see, it starts off with a story that doesn't add up.

Not a very promising introduction, I'm afraid.

[john white]

Yes

Yes to what part?

Your brains wired backwards?

Fundamentalism is a scourge?

Fundamentalists carry a satanic energy?

and it's all by design to dissuade people from following the Bible as it is written rather than accept some interpretation of it.

I should think clear vision is seeing the bible exactly as it IS written (well... constantly re-written) and percieiving clearly what is from the creator and what is the ego of man

E.g. homosexuals are definitely out if you follow the Bible, as are women priests. Jesus did not have any women disciples and it says that women are not capable of connecting with God like man is. I think it talks about them of being 'of the flesh' or something of that kind. I'm not a great Bible scholar by any stretch but even I can get a fair picture of what it is about.


And you don't have any questions about that Baron? That all seems A-OK to you?

You don't think that a doctrine where Women are an inferior unworthy lesser creation that need to be controlled might not be a bit suspect?

Let alone why should God care if men stick their dicks up each others bottoms?

And what about Lesbians? Pussy licking leads to eternal torment via the God of Love?

Like yourself, I'm not a great Bible scholar by any stretch but even I can get a fair picture of what it is about.

And its about keeping humans in a tiny little box and dividing them against each other based on entirely spurious lines: well the illuminati parts courtesy of the council's of Nicea anyway

And its true Baron: your blind acceptance of the monstrous doctrine that women are spiritually inferior is weak and self serving, and an insult to your own mother, without who's womb you wouldnt be here to profess such ignorance

Here's a hint: Roman male sun worshiping priests needed to break the power of the female religions to achieve their New World Order of the day

You think the very thoughts the Brotherhood created for you to think

[seanx]

John wrote:

And you don't have any questions about that Baron? That all seems A-OK to you?

You don't think that a doctrine where Women are an inferior unworthy lesser creation that need to be controlled might not be a bit suspect?

Let alone why should God care if men stick their dicks up each others bottoms?

And what about Lesbians? Pussy licking leads to eternal torment via the God of Love?

Like yourself, I'm not a great Bible scholar by any stretch but even I can get a fair picture of what it is about.

And its about keeping humans in a tiny little box and dividing them against each other based on entirely spurious lines: well the illuminati parts courtesy of the council's of Nicea anyway

And its true Baron: your blind acceptance of the monstrous doctrine that women are spiritually inferior is weak and self serving, and an insult to your own mother, without who's womb you wouldnt be here to profess such ignorance

Here's a hint: Roman male sun worshiping priests needed to break the power of the female religions to achieve their New World Order of the day

You think the very thoughts the Brotherhood created for you to think

This is disgraceful! Wash your mouth out, Mr. White.

There are good Christian fundamentalists who take the trouble to come
over to this forum to covert us from our ignorance - and you, good sir, are corrupting them!

You're definitely the spawn of the old Devil!!!

[klinker]

John wrote:



This is disgraceful! Wash your mouth out, Mr. White.

There are good Christian fundamentalists who take the trouble to come
over to this forum to covert us from our ignorance - and you, good sir, are corrupting them!

You're definitely the spawn of the old Devil!!!

Haha I was just wondering if, like Graflok, I could go off and do a tinternet search and find a Christian forum with a post suggesting they turn up mob handed to get stuck into the Icke crowd. LoL.

But on a serious note this site is being trolled from various angles and the agenda is always the same imo which is to disrupt peoples progression to an awake state where their conciousness can see for the first time the true light and all the bullshit that surrounds us. We are not allowed to wake up and the fact that we are is the biggest threat of all hence the war for our minds.

Like I said before..............

Jesus saves and Pele puts in the rebound.

:)

[baron von lotsov]

I found this on the web. It looks a little biased but all it really means is the top one. Literal adherence to a set of principles. Now if that is from some occult book the of course that would be satanic but it all depends on what the book is. If the book says that killing someone is fundamentally wrong, as is the case with the Bible then it is clear euthanasia is wrong and that sort of thing. That is not evil, indeed it is the opposite and people who waver from this principle are the ones who are likely to commit evil acts. I think you have had a little too much mainstream brainwashing regarding Muslim fundamentalists setting things on fire and that sort of thing. Yes that is quite evil but you fail to notice why they are doing it. They don't want people to remain fixed to their principles, they have a NWO to construct which requires everyone to worship Lucifer. Get it!


Definitions of Fundamentalism on the Web:

Movement or attitude stressing strict and literal adherence to a set of basic principles.
www.com.washington.edu/Program/news/digijournalism/islam/guide_glossary.html

A belief in the infallibility, and literal interpretation, of a particular religion’s doctrine or holy books. When applied in Abrahamic sects, it can lead to extreme prejudice and violence due to the nature of the Bible. The Crusades, the Inquisition, and witch-burning were due to fundamentalist ideals.
www.reasoned.org/glossary.htm

Fundamentalism is the belief in absolute religious authority and the demand that this religious authority be legally enforced. Often, fundamentalism involves the willingness to do battle for one's faith. Fundamentalists make up only one part of any religion's followers, who usually fall along a wide spectrum of different interpretations, values and beliefs.
www.gsanetwork.org/justiceforall/definitions.htm

A term originally applied to conservative, Bible-centered Protestant Christians (many of whom now prefer to call themselves "evangelicals"), but more recently extended to apply to the religiously authoritarian of all sorts (including classical Christians, Jews, and Muslims) who interpret their scriptures literally and in general favor a strict adherence to certain traditional doctrines and practices.
www.theisraelproject.org/site/apps/nl/content2.asp

a movement that sees itself opposed to Modernism, stressing the infallibility of the Bible in both religious matters and historical accuracy
jmahoney.com/glossary.htm

Commitment to, and belief in, the literal meaning of a scriptual text. Religious fundamentalism, regardless of the religion, refers to the calling for a return to the foundational beliefs, fundamentals of the religion, or a literal interpretation of its scriptures. Often regarded as a static, conservative, retrogressive, or extremist interpretation of religious beliefs. Can be misinterpreted or erroneously equated with religious extremism, fundamentalism, terrorism, and the like.
www.elissetche.org/dico/F.htm

a term to describe the movement of conservative Protestant Christians on the North American continent in the early twentieth century that arose in the wake of the publishing of a series of pamphlets known as "The Fundamentals," edited by RA Torrey. Basically, Fundamentalism was a rejection of the liberal "modernist" trend among mainline Protestant churches that accepted "biblical higher criticism," and doubted the literal supernatural claims of the Bible. ...
members.tripod.com/monsterwax/terms.html

An approach to a belief system that emphasizes following a particular set of basic principles and opinions often called doctrine. The assurance and peace-of-mind that comes with fundamentalist responses to uncertainty attracts many. They seem to cluster in the political and religious arenas to help each other maintain faith in, what they believe is a more consistent and coherent worldview. ...
www.greeleynet.com/~cnotess/gloss.htm

1. An emotional, narrow minded kind of religion that focuses on using good works to please God, rejects rational thinking, unjustly judges others, and tends to blur the distinction between church and state. True fundamentalism has always been the enemy of Christianity, but it is more rare these days than most people think. It is a more serious danger in other times and cultures. It is still around, though, and is strong in some areas. ...
www.geocities.com/Athens/Oracle/4855/jargon.htm

An interpretation of the Bible and Church doctrine in a literal and non-historical manner.
dlibrary.acu.edu.au/research/theology/theo305/glossary.htm

uncritical acceptance of revealed truth and willingness to follow a leader embodying authority
www.naiadonline.ca/book/01Glossary.htm

the interpretation of every word in the sacred texts as literal truth
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

In comparative religion, fundamentalism refers to anti-modernist movements in various religions.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamentalism

[john white]

Movement or attitude stressing strict and literal adherence to a set of basic principles.
http://www.com.washington.edu/Progra..._glossary.html


I'm hardly suprised that the most progressive definition of fundamentalism is the Islamic one. Jesus the prophet in Islam is a far more human figure than Jesus the Sun in Churchianity: as is, of course, Mohammed. It was the illuminati who corrupted Islam by ading a heirachical word-of-God preisthood (shiite) working in close co-operation with the Roman Catholic church: thats why Roman Catholic Temples dedicated to Mary appear near to so many mosques across the middle east

but the issue with fundamentalism is: what do those who believe they are fundamentalists think it means?

And the answer, as far as christian fundamentalistsgoes anyway, is that every word in the bible is literally the word of God and the absolute law of truth

Bing! And thats where those revisionist brotherhood types have them by the balls. The sleep of reason breeds monsters

[baron von lotsov]

I'm hardly suprised that the most progressive definition of fundamentalism is the Islamic one. Jesus the prophet in Islam is a far more human figure than Jesus the Sun in Churchianity: as is, of course, Mohammed. It was the illuminati who corrupted Islam by ading a heirachical word-of-God preisthood (shiite) working in close co-operation with the Roman Catholic church: thats why Roman Catholic Temples dedicated to Mary appear near to so many mosques across the middle east

but the issue with fundamentalism is: what do those who believe they are fundamentalists think it means?

And the answer, as far as christian fundamentalistsgoes anyway, is that every word in the bible is literally the word of God and the absolute law of truth

Bing! And thats where those revisionist brotherhood types have them by the balls. The sleep of reason breeds monsters

No, the bible does not mean the complete abstinence of reason, precisely the opposite in fact. It is a set of moral laws that are fixed. What I'm wondering though is what you substitute for Christian ethics. I don't care what you say about other people, I want to know what you do and how you know something is moral against something that isn't.

[neutron flux]

It is a set of moral laws that are fixed. What I'm wondering though is what you substitute for Christian ethics. I don't care what you say about other people, I want to know what you do and how you know something is moral against something that isn't.

Baron, you reminded me of this:

There is nothing general in the concept of 'morality.' Morality consists of buffers. There is no general morality. What is moral in China is immoral in Europe and what is moral in Europe is immoral in China. What is moral in Petersburg is immoral in the Caucasus. And what is moral in the Caucasus is immoral in Petersburg. What is moral in one class of society is immoral in another and vice versa. Morality is always and everywhere an artificial phenomenon. It consists of various 'taboos,' that is, restrictions, and various demands, sometimes sensible in their
basis and sometimes having lost all meaning or never even having had any meaning, and having been created on a false basis, on a soil of superstition and false fears.

"Morality consists of 'buffers.' And since 'buffers' are of various kinds, and as the conditions of life in different countries and in different ages or among different classes of society vary considerably, so the morality created by them is also very dissimilar and contradictory. A morality common to all does not exist. It is even impossible to say that there exists any general idea of morality, for instance, in Europe. It is said sometimes that the general morality for Europe is 'Christian morality.' But first of all the idea of 'Christian morality' itself admits of very many different interpretations and many different crimes have been justified by 'Christian morality.' And in the second place modern Europe has very little in common with 'Christian morality,' no matter how we understand this morality.

"In any case, if 'Christian morality' brought Europe to the war which is now going on, then it would be as well to be as far as possible from such morality."

"Many people say that they do not understand the moral side of your teaching," said one of us. "And others say that your teaching has no morality at all."

"Of course not," said G. "People are very fond of talking about morality. But morality is merely self-suggestion. What is necessary is conscience. We do not teach morality. We teach how to find conscience. People are not pleased when we say this. They say that we have no love. Simply because we do not encourage weakness and hypocrisy but, on the contrary, take off all masks. He who desires the truth will not speak of love or of Christianity because he knows how far he is from these. Christian teaching is for Christians. And Christians are those who live, that is, who do everything, according to Christ's precepts. Can they who talk of love and morality live according to Christ's precepts? Of course they cannot; but there will always be talk of this kind, there will always be people to whom words are more precious than anything else. But this is a true sign! He who speaks like this is an empty man; it is not worth while wasting time on him.

"Morality and conscience are quite different things. One conscience can never contradict another conscience. One morality can always very easily contradict and completely deny another. A man with 'buffers' may be very moral. And 'buffers' can be very different, that is, two very moral men may consider each other very immoral. As a rule it is almost inevitably so. The more 'moral' a man is, the more 'immoral' does he think other moral people.

[baron von lotsov]

It's just more anti-Christian blar. The main basis of the argument goes something like Christians are hypocritical. Well no they aren't actually and are on the whole genuine and mean to do their best. So the stupidity of the occultists is by use of the argument that if say you only achieve 8/10 then the other 2 makes you a hypocrite which is worse than if you didn't try at all and score 0/10. Another stupid thing is to go into things like the Crusades, as if that was the doing of all Christians. Well you should know, it was the Knights Templar, not the Christians. Anyway despite all of this the same people come out with the same bollox regardless of how many times it has been disproved.

[tinmenace]

It's just more anti-Christian blar. The main basis of the argument goes something like Christians are hypocritical. Well no they aren't actually and are on the whole genuine and mean to do their best. So the stupidity of the occultists is by use of the argument that if say you only achieve 8/10 then the other 2 makes you a hypocrite which is worse than if you didn't try at all and score 0/10. Another stupid thing is to go into things like the Crusades, as if that was the doing of all Christians. Well you should know, it was the Knights Templar, not the Christians. Anyway despite all of this the same people come out with the same bollox regardless of how many times it has been disproved.

I don't think Christians are better people, as a whole, by default, simply because they're Christians.

That's utter nonsense.

In fact I know many many Christians, I live in the "Bible Belt" of the South, and I'd say that only 3 Christians that I know are actually good and decent people filled with spirituality and love. The rest are fakes and posers that hide behind their Christian label.

They're also very blood thirsty and support war and the existence of Israel.

[bigus_dickus]

The rest are fakes and posers that hide behind their Christian label.

They're also very blood thirsty and support war and the existence of Israel.

but, does that mean that christians are to blame, while you are blaming the fake ones? your "war" is against the true ones, you in fact support the fakes by opposing "christianity" as a general concept.

for example, someone bombs a country and kills thousands of people, because of some actions of a small faction of the people of this country. does it ring a bell.

[tinmenace]

but, does that mean that christians are to blame, while you are blaming the fake ones? your "war" is against the true ones, you in fact support the fakes by opposing "christianity" as a general concept.

for example, someone bombs a country and kills thousands of people, because of some actions of a small faction of the people of this country. does it ring a bell.

Would you not agree that most Christians are supportive of the existence of the state of Israel based on their Christian belief system?

[baron von lotsov]

The rest are fakes and posers that hide behind their Christian label.

They're also very blood thirsty and support war and the existence of Israel.


[/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR]

I would not call them Christian.

[bigus_dickus]

Would you not agree that most Christians are supportive of the existence of the state of Israel based on their Christian belief system?

i live in a christian country (over 80%) and people don't have such ideas based on belief. in fact, most people over here, dislike jews and israel, as a mere observation.

[tinmenace]

I would not call them Christian.

They call themselves Christian, they go to church, they pray to God and believe Jesus is their savior...all the usual things that are considered a sure sign of a Christian.

How do you differentiate?

What is your definition of a Christian, and how do you identify them?

[tinmenace]

i live in a christian country (over 80%) and people don't have such ideas based on belief. in fact, most people over here, dislike jews and israel, as a mere observation.

They don't like Jews? Specifically? Why?

[bigus_dickus]

They don't like Jews? Specifically? Why?

i am not sure.. personally i have no bad feelings towards anyone. but observing a nation that is constantly at war and moreover a "holy war" may be a good enough reason.

edit: needless to say that americans fall into the same category.

[bigus_dickus]

[COLOR="Blue"][SIZE="3"][FONT="Century Gothic"]They call themselves Christian, they go to church, they pray to God and believe Jesus is their savior...all the usual things that are considered a sure sign of a Christian.

How do you differentiate?

you said:

The rest are fakes and posers that hide behind their Christian label.

how do you differentiate?

[tinmenace]

I don't think Christians are better people, as a whole, by default, simply because they're Christians.

That's utter nonsense.

In fact I know many many Christians, I live in the "Bible Belt" of the South, and I'd say that only 3 Christians that I know are actually good and decent people filled with spirituality and love. The rest are fakes and posers that hide behind their Christian label.

They're also very blood thirsty and support war and the existence of Israel.






you said:

The rest are fakes and posers that hide behind their Christian label.

how do you differentiate?


Because I've got to know them. They are people I work with, they are my neighbors, they are my customers, my family....

I know them, and I can see how they are living contradictions of their religions and doctrine.

Unlike you, I'm not speaking for 80% of the population, or generalizing. I'm speaking from personal knowledge.

[bigus_dickus]

Unlike you, I'm not speaking for 80% of the population, or generalizing. I'm speaking from personal knowledge.

but, you said:

Would you not agree that most Christians are supportive of the existence of the state of Israel based on their Christian belief system?

how is this not generalizing?

[tinmenace]

i am not sure.. personally i have no bad feelings towards anyone. but observing a nation that is constantly at war and moreover a "holy war" may be a good enough reason.

edit: needless to say that americans fall into the same category.

So, doesn't it bother you that you don't know why? I mean, 8 out of 10 people don't like Jews...that's the vast majority...you must have some idea...No? You're not even slightly curious?

What about you? Are you in support of the existence of Israel?

[tinmenace]

but, you said:

Would you not agree that most Christians are supportive of the existence of the state of Israel based on their Christian belief system?

how is this not generalizing?

Because their bible teaches them that it's the promised land of God's chosen people. So, I'm using their own doctrine to make a general observation.

[baron von lotsov]

They call themselves Christian, they go to church, they pray to God and believe Jesus is their savior...all the usual things that are considered a sure sign of a Christian.

How do you differentiate?

What is your definition of a Christian, and how do you identify them?

That means nothing. It's what you do and your intentions that count. This is why fundamentalism is important. It means sticking to it 100% and not an Illuminati substitute.

[bigus_dickus]

So, doesn't it bother you that you don't know why? I mean, 8 out of 10 people don't like Jews...that's the vast majority...you must have some idea...No? You're not even slightly curious?

What about you? Are you in support of the existence of Israel?

i said that it gets to be observed as a nation driven to war by false beliefs and misguided by people who have their agendas. i can go on, but it is irrelevant, the fact is that christianity has nothing to do with the existence or demise of a nation. we simply don't like watching people killing each other.

as about myself, i have no preference about the existence or not of israel or any other nation.

[bigus_dickus]

Because their bible teaches them that it's the promised land of God's chosen people. So, I'm using their own doctrine to make a general observation.



you're talking about the jews then, not about christians.

[mk72]

They don't like Jews? Specifically? Why?

Tin, this is what the baron doesn't want to tell you - why some Christians support the state of Israel - they want a certain amount of Jews to move to Israel so that the second coming, would be orchestrated and they would be raptured.

Christian Zionism
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
Part of a series of articles on
Christianity

Christian Zionism is a belief among some Christians that the return of the Jews to the Holy Land, and the establishment of the State of Israel in 1948, is in accordance with Biblical prophecy. This belief is primarily, though not exclusively, associated with Christian Dispensationalism, mainly in English-speaking countries outside Europe.

Christian Zionism, as a specifically theological belief, does not necessarily entail sympathy for the Jews as a nation or for Judaism as a religion. Since the biblical text is filled with references to God's chosen people, it is common for Christian Zionists to emphasize the Jewish roots of Christianity, and even to promote Jewish practices and Hebrew terminology as part of their own practice; however, Christian Zionists commonly believe that to fulfill prophecy, a significant number of Jews will accept Jesus as their Messiah, and that in the last days, such Messianic Jews will practice a thoroughly Hebraic form of Christianity.
Christian Zionism
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
Part of a series of articles on
Christianity
Christian Zionism, as a specifically theological belief, does not necessarily entail sympathy for the Jews as a nation or for Judaism as a religion. Since the biblical text is filled with references to God's chosen people, it is common for Christian Zionists to emphasize the Jewish roots of Christianity, and even to promote Jewish practices and Hebrew terminology as part of their own practice; however, Christian Zionists commonly believe that to fulfill prophecy, a significant number of Jews will accept Jesus as their Messiah, and that in the last days, such Messianic Jews will practice a thoroughly Hebraic form of Christianity.

But I think that we have sort of hijacked Titural's thread and I don't think this is his viewpoint, I was interested in his thread and would like to hear more from his side. He's got a lot of interesting stuff to say and face it nobody has so much critisism when a budahist or muslim gives his point of view - if they don't force it down your throat, give them a chance to express themselves. We can learn a lot from each other.

[tinmenace]

you're talking about the jews then, not about christians.

No, I'm talking about the Christians. They support the existence of Israel because their bible teaches them that it is the will of God that his "chosen people" will have a homeland called Israel.

[bigus_dickus]

No, I'm talking about the Christians. They support the existence of Israel because their bible teaches them that it is the will of God that his "chosen people" will have a homeland called Israel.

alright, what do you support or suggest?

[tinmenace]

But I think that we have sort of hijacked Titural's thread and I don't think this is his viewpoint, I was interested in his thread and would like to hear more from his side. He's got a lot of interesting stuff to say and face it nobody has so much critisism when a budahist or muslim gives his point of view - if they don't force it down your throat, give them a chance to express themselves. We can learn a lot from each other.

We're not off topic here. We're still discussing Christianity and the NWO...

[tinmenace]

That means nothing. It's what you do and your intentions that count. This is why fundamentalism is important. It means sticking to it 100% and not an Illuminati substitute.

Very well, it means nothing to you, but you still haven't answered my questions.

How do you differentiate?

What is your definition of a Christian, and how do you identify them?

[tinmenace]

alright, what do you support or suggest?

In reference to what?

[bigus_dickus]

In reference to what?

the existence of Israel? :rolleyes:

[mk72]

We're not off topic here. We're still discussing Christianity and the NWO...

I know but would like to hear Titural's take on it - it's useless to talk to baron. And I am genuinely interrested.

[tinmenace]

I know but would like to hear Titural's take on it - it's useless to talk to baron. And I am genuinely interrested.

Oh, ok, I thought you meant we'd hijacked the thread and gone off topic. :)

[tinmenace]

the existence of Israel? :rolleyes:

The existence of Israel is an ongoing crime and cannot be justified. Do you agree?

[bigus_dickus]

The existence of Israel is an ongoing crime and cannot be justified. Do you agree?

no i don't, i don't judge people, nations, races, beliefs and anything else, i love everyone equally. you can blame me for that if you wish, i still love you.

[tinmenace]

no i don't, i don't judge people, nations, races, beliefs and anything else, i love everyone equally. you can blame me for that if you wish, i still love you.

Yes sweetie, and I love you too, but we're talking about the existence of the state of Israel which has nothing to do with people, not even the Jews.

[bigus_dickus]

Yes sweetie, and I love you too, but we're talking about the existence of the state of Israel which has nothing to do with people, not even the Jews.

it is politics.. i said i have no preference, just love. what else can i do... this is who i am.

[tinmenace]

it is politics.. i said i have no preference, just love. what else can i do... this is who i am.

But they use a religious reason to justify its existence. Are you ok with that?

[bigus_dickus]

But they use a religious reason to justify its existence. Are you ok with that?

no, but i can't blame them for their ignorance you see.. and i certainly have no fear, things always work out. they will, as long as we don't give in to fear.

[tinmenace]

no, but i can't blame them for their ignorance you see.. and i certainly have no fear, things always work out. they will, as long as we don't give in to fear.

It's not ignorance, see. That's the whole thing.

It's a carefully planned agenda by the Zionists. They're the ones doing this, and the "ignorant" ones are the fodder for their wars. They're the ones suffering, while the Global Elite continue to stomp on their heads. All the while, the Christians are justifying this as God's will because the bible says that God's "chosen people" have a right to have this "promised land" called Israel.

They are using religious dogma to manipulate politics and justify massive human slaughter.

[bigus_dickus]

It's not ignorance, see. That's the whole thing.

It's a carefully planned agenda by the Zionists. They're the ones doing this, and the "ignorant" ones are the fodder for their wars. They're the ones suffering, while the Global Elite continue to stomp on their heads. All the while, the Christians are justifying this as God's will because the bible says that God's "chosen people" have a right to have this "promised land" called Israel.

They are using religious dogma to manipulate politics and justify massive human slaughter.



i know this... i was referring to the zionists as the "ignorant" ones. and it's not only them of course.. they have been around since the beginning, they have many faces, they have become leaders of anything (not only religions). i don't like to narrow down the "enemies" to a single sect, it just doesn't work like that, the system has its own defense mechanism, basically using people as instruments.

i know that more than half of the christians of this world are being deceived. if they weren't, i wouldn't be here saying what i am saying. and the rest of the world is being deceived to hate all of the christians and not only them, this goes on in all religions.

we are talking mostly about christianity in this forum (and consequently we have lots of anti-christians), for the simple fact that it is a british based forum.

please take a look at the following animation and notice how inevitable things have been.

http://www.mapsofwar.com/images/Religion.swf

and not to mention the many divisions of christianity and the wars between those divisions, that has separated the "blue" to many more colors.

if it wasn't christianity, it would probably be something else used as provocative for war. these guys who play with people's minds can use anything to provoke fear and anger. if, for example, there was no christianity, we would all be buddhists and maybe this conversation would be about "true and false buddhism" instead.

[mk72]

It is obvious Christians don't want to get into the Israel topic. Why can't peace loving Christians speak out about it?

[tinmenace]

i know this... i was referring to the zionists as the "ignorant" ones. and it's not only them of course.. they have been around since the beginning, they have many faces, they have become leaders of anything (not only religions). i don't like to narrow down the "enemies" to a single sect, it just doesn't work like that, the system has its own defense mechanism, basically using people as instruments.

i know that more than half of the christians of this world are being deceived. if they weren't, i wouldn't be here saying what i am saying. and the rest of the world is being deceived to hate all of the christians and not only them, this goes on in all religions.

we are talking mostly about christianity in this forum (and consequently we have lots of anti-christians), for the simple fact that it is a british based forum.

please take a look at the following animation and notice how inevitable things have been.

http://www.mapsofwar.com/images/Religion.swf

and not to mention the many divisions of christianity and the wars between those divisions, that has separated the "blue" to many more colors.

if it wasn't christianity, it would probably be something else used as provocative for war. these guys who play with people's minds can use anything to provoke fear and anger. if, for example, there was no christianity, we would all be buddhists and maybe this conversation would be about "true and false buddhism" instead.

Right. Christianity is just one part of a large puzzle. For me personally, my issue is with religion in general. It just so happens that a lot of suffering in the world is a direct result of Israel and the Zionist agenda. The Christians are brainwashed into believing it's God's will and therefor support it. The Muslims have their own special brand of mind control, and oppose it, and many are caught in the middle along with Israeli Jews, whom also suffer from a special blend of delusion being told they are "chosen people"...all this from the dogma of religion.

It's mind control. If people weren't under the spell of dogma, they would refuse wars based on religious lies. More than half the world's problems would be instantly solved. We wouldn't have the religious division.

[bigus_dickus]

It's mind control. If people weren't under the spell of dogma, they would refuse wars based on religious lies. More than half the world's problems would be instantly solved. We wouldn't have the religious division.

it's not exactly dogma, it's deception. because any kind of belief, which is what people think as truth, can be described as a dogma. even that the earth is round (or flat) is a dogma regardless of the scientific evidence. scientific 'proof' is another kind of dogma as well.

here is the definition of dogma (greek word it is) as i found it:

dogma
1541 (implied in dogmatist), from L. dogma "philosophical tenet," from Gk. dogma (gen. dogmatos) "opinion, tenet," lit. "that which one thinks is true," from dokein "to seem good, think" (see decent). Treated in 17c.-18c. as Gk., with pl. dogmata.

δόγμα in greek, means 1. "opinion", "something that appears true", from the verb "doko" which means "to think, to contemplate, to believe, to imagine, to suppose" 2. "public opinion", when something is believed as truth, or voted for by a majority of people.

δόξα (doxa, as in ortho-doxy which means the correct thinking) comes from the same word. it means "idea, contemplation, opinion". it also means "glory, elegance, brightness".

orthodox
1581, from L.L. orthodoxus, from Gk. orthodoxos "having the right opinion," from orthos "right, true, straight" + doxa "opinion, praise," from dokein "to seem," from PIE base *dek- "to take, accept" (see decent). As the name of the Eastern Church, first recorded in Eng. 1772; in the sense of branch of Judaism, first recorded 1853.

paradox
1540, from L. paradoxum "paradox, statement seemingly absurd yet really true," from Gk. paradoxon, from neut. of adj. paradoxos "contrary to expectation, incredible," from para- "contrary to" + doxa "opinion."

to expect = pros + doko (pros means something to the future, doko to think, so to expect is to think of something in the future).


see, there can't be a non-dogmatic point of view, because dogma means "point of view"! even an anti-dogma belief, as i demonstrated in another post, is a dogma. because people are ignorant about their own languages.. they literally don't know how to speak.

it's not the dogma, it's the attitude. we will have a dogma, as long as we have a mind, but what matters is our attitude towards our mind. because of our own ignorance, we will believe anyone who appears to be more knowledgeable, but this is not right, because we are letting ourselves be deceived this way. we can only tell what people are from what they do, not from what they say..

if you love truth, be true to yourself.

[tinmenace]

I'm sorry BD, I didn't make myself clear on my definition of dogma. I believe that dogma is a spell. I believe that dark sorcerers keep this spell in place with rituals and symbols, and ultimately it has many people enslaved.

I can't explain in one post how I came up with this idea, but if every you're truly bored, you can go back and read my posts about consciousness, quantum, Freemason sorcerers and the higher witch ... the Pope.

http://www.globalfailure.com/images/popemass.jpg

I fully believe we are the energy cells that power their black magick.

[bigus_dickus]

I'm sorry BD, I didn't make myself clear on my definition of dogma. I believe that dogma is a spell. I believe that dark sorcerers keep this spell in place with rituals and symbols, and ultimately it has many people enslaved.

i have no problem with this idea that dark sorcerers influence people's minds, however spell does not mean dogma and all dogmas are not spells. for example your belief (=dogma) that dogma = spell, means that this too is a spell. unless you are able to distinguish which is a magic spell and which is not. or unless you believe that all beliefs are magic spells, which would even make this belief another magic spell.. can i call it a paradox? :)

I fully believe we are the energy cells that power their black magick.

i don't like this word "magick" coined by a. crowley, however i agree with this notion. lets get our minds straight and set us free of these spells, forever.

is love the way, or is it another dogma? let's try it and see! we've never done it before (as a whole).

[oceanwave]

From the very well thought out article below:

"Christians, specifically, are cited as the main obstacle hindering the success of this New Age-New World Order."...

and now...a new contender *drum rolls*

all new age world odour,..err order...sorry

[titurel]

I understand your interpretations, and can see that you studied this thoroughly and please don’t think that I’m trying to convince you that you’re believes are wrong – I want to hear your views and interpretations. If Christ is the basis for Christianity than how do you (personally) get around the fact that it is based on a pre-Christian religions ?
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. In him was life, and that life was the light of men. The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it." - John 1

John says all things were made through Jesus and that the Word came down into his creation. But his creation did not recognise him (in fact it rejected him!). God isn't one who guesses what will happen in the future because he's outside of time, much like someone in a helicopter above a carnival parade can see the beginning, middle and front of the parade, whereas to someone standing in the middle of it, the front of the parade is the past, the middle the present and the end is the future.

Spiritual traditions (to those who believe in a spiritual reality beneath things), develop when spiritually aware/sensitive/awake people grasp some aspect they see in the spirit and translate it into symbols, words and systems, etc. Some of these may be accurate, some may not but if Jesus was indeed the word of God, the logos incarnate, as Christians believe, then why should it be a surprise that echoes of him and his incarnation into flesh appear all over the place, before his very birth?

Only a limited temporal outlook would discount the possibility that, in the most important aspects, these similarities that exist in other dimensions, i.e. with Jesus, can be found in so-called "Christs" prior to Jesus incarnating on earth, and are reflections of Jesus and not vice-versa, whenever they happened.

[john white]

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. In him was life, and that life was the light of men. The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it." - John 1

John says all things were made through Jesus and that the Word came down into his creation. But his creation did not recognise him (in fact it rejected him!). God isn't one who guesses what will happen in the future because he's outside of time, much like someone in a helicopter above a carnival parade can see the beginning, middle and front of the parade, whereas to someone standing in the middle of it, the front of the parade is the past, the middle the present and the end is the future.

Spiritual traditions (to those who believe in a spiritual reality beneath things), develop when spiritually aware/sensitive/awake people grasp some aspect they see in the spirit and translate it into symbols, words and systems, etc. Some of these may be accurate, some may not but if Jesus was indeed the word of God, the logos incarnate, as Christians believe, then why should it be a surprise that echoes of him and his incarnation into flesh appear all over the place, before his very birth?

Only a limited temporal outlook would discount the possibility that, in the most important aspects, these similarities that exist in other dimensions, i.e. with Jesus, can be found in so-called "Christs" prior to Jesus incarnating on earth, and are reflections of Jesus and not vice-versa, whenever they happened.

An interesting perspective... equally it suggests that "Jesus" is himself a facet, and that ALL prophets are equal... and that all humans are equally potential prophets

[titurel]

The whole point of this religion was to create a believe in something that it's creators not only made up but a mirror image of their secret teachings and therefore opposed to. The true meaning is kept from the masses.
Organised Religions were not made up out of nothing. They are the work of Reptilians who use organised religions to syphon off human energy and to further their agendas. Reptilians, IMO, are real and they not only hate humans, they also hate God. However, they are soon to be bound up and thrown into the abyss at Armageddon.

[titurel]

An interesting perspective... equally it suggests that "Jesus" is himself a facet, and that ALL prophets are equal... and that all humans are equally potential prophets
No, it's not the case that all Pagan Messiahs or prophets are equal with Jesus. The Pagan Christs were inspired by fallen divine beings and it's them that the illuminati revere. The fact that they hate the Jesus Christ speaks bucket loads.

[titurel]

</p>
Would you not agree that most Christians are supportive of the existence of the state of Israel based on their Christian belief system?Most "Christians" have been fooled by wolves in sheeps clothing. Just like most people have been fooled by money, materialism and Mammon, which is destorying the earth.

[titurel]

They call themselves Christian, they go to church, they pray to God and believe Jesus is their savior...all the usual things that are considered a sure sign of a Christian.
You seem to like making wild sweepuing generalisations about people but you'll never learn much using that method. Not all Christians need a Church.

[titurel]

Because their bible teaches them that it's the promised land of God's chosen people. So, I'm using their own doctrine to make a general observation.

No, the Bible does not teach that the promised land is the physical region of Israel.

[seanx]

Right. Christianity is just one part of a large puzzle. For me personally, my issue is with religion in general. It just so happens that a lot of suffering in the world is a direct result of Israel and the Zionist agenda. The Christians are brainwashed into believing it's God's will and therefor support it. The Muslims have their own special brand of mind control, and oppose it, and many are caught in the middle along with Israeli Jews, whom also suffer from a special blend of delusion being told they are "chosen people"...all this from the dogma of religion.

It's mind control. If people weren't under the spell of dogma, they would refuse wars based on religious lies. More than half the world's problems would be instantly solved. We wouldn't have the religious division.

Well said, tinmenace

I don't want always to be attacking Christians on this forum- there are
many genuine Christians on this forum - like Chicken, sorry I can't think
of his end name - who are here to honestly debate and help us
understand their position.......

But there are others who are here just to ran their fundamantalist
views on throats.

We know who they are.

I don't know!

It's now 2' 0clock Irish Time.

Are they still on duty?

Or are they asleep.

Bless them.....!!

Another day tomorrow.

Can you imagine it now.

The Good Old baron, fast asleep now , in his bed....with his teddy
bear, recuping his energy, ready to do battle with the dreaded
enemy tomorrow.

( I'm actually getting to respect the Baron. I don't agree with him - but
he does take the trouble and write very detailed and thought-provoking
posts - pity they are all shit!!. But credit where credit is due.)

Essentially, what tinmenace is pointing out what dave icke has
pointed out in Infinite love..... is that it is all mind -control.

Setting people against people. Ideas against ideas.

An incredible illusion - which is all part of the game.

[john white]

No, it's not the case that all Pagan Messiahs or prophets are equal with Jesus. The Pagan Christs were inspired by fallen divine beings and it's them that the illuminati revere. The fact that they hate the Jesus Christ speaks bucket loads.

What are you on about?

Abraham hates Jesus? Moses hates Jesus? Mohammed hates Jesus? Clearly nonsense

I see no reason why you give Jesus primacy against any other: they ALL have the same message and represent the same God

The only reason for anyone to give any of them primacy is imbalanced cultural prejudice:

THAT will be the reptillian brotherhood dividing and conqouring

Would Jesus approve and condone the invasion of Iraq? Would Mohammed? Would Moses?

And why would Krishna? Or Horus? Or Dionysus?

(Sol Invictus would of course, but you'll have to ask Constantine about that)

Frankly, you seem to be mesmerised by the messenger to the neglect of the message:

Thats hubris, a sin of mans ego

[oceanwave]

From the very well thought out article below:

"Christians, specifically, are cited as the main obstacle hindering the success of this New Age-New World Order."...

and now...a new contender *drum rolls*

all new age world odour,..err order...sorry...*taps mic*

[titurel]

Right. Christianity is just one part of a large puzzle. For me personally, my issue is with religion in general. It just so happens that a lot of suffering in the world is a direct result of Israel and the Zionist agenda. The Christians are brainwashed into believing it's God's will and therefor support it. The Muslims have their own special brand of mind control, and oppose it, and many are caught in the middle along with Israeli Jews, whom also suffer from a special blend of delusion being told they are "chosen people"...all this from the dogma of religion.

It's mind control. If people weren't under the spell of dogma, they would refuse wars based on religious lies. More than half the world's problems would be instantly solved. We wouldn't have the religious division.
Unfortunatley, for as long as you generalise and make no effort in understanding the subtlies of the problem, you're fair game for the illuminati's mind control too. For example, not all people who accept the Bible advocate Zionism or Israel and neither do they not all belong to Christendom or go to any church. The Bible actually says God does not live in a building made by human hands. It's a great shame that so many people who claim to be Christian don't read the book that their understanding is supposed to be based on. Anyhow, that's one very important subtelty that I thought I should bring to the attention.

[titurel]

and now...a new contender *drum rolls*

all new age world odour,..err order...sorry...*taps mic*
Just before Armageddon, which is not that far off now, political states shall turn on all organised religions and destroy what they created in the first place... and they'll do that in order to clear the ground for their NWO Luciferian One World Religion but they won't succeed because God will bind the Reptilians and put them in an abyss. The world is on the brink of some terrible tribulations, due to the activities of the illuminati.

[titurel]

What are you on about?

Abraham hates Jesus? Moses hates Jesus? Mohammed hates Jesus? Clearly nonsense

I see no reason why you give Jesus primacy against any other: they ALL have the same message and represent the same God

The only reason for anyone to give any of them primacy is imbalanced cultural prejudice:

THAT will be the reptillian brotherhood dividing and conqouring

Would Jesus approve and condone the invasion of Iraq? Would Mohammed? Would Moses?

And why would Krishna? Or Horus? Or Dionysus?

(Sol Invictus would of course, but you'll have to ask Constantine about that)

Frankly, you seem to be mesmerised by the messenger to the neglect of the message:

Thats hubris, a sin of mans ego
I never said Moses or Abraham hates Jesus. I said the Pagan Christs are a product of Reptilians with their NWO agenda. And no, Jesus would not approve or condone the invasion of Iraq. Krishna, Mohamed and all the others like Horus, etc., are all the product of the pantheon of the fallen stars. That is my opinion, but you can worship them all if you like, John!

[john white]

I never said Moses or Abraham hates Jesus. I said the Pagan Christs are a product of Reptilians with their NWO agenda. And no, Jesus would not approve or condone the invasion of Iraq. Krishna, Mohamed and all the others like Horus, etc., are all the product of the pantheon of the fallen stars. That is my opinion, but you can worship them all if you like, John!

If Mohamed is a false prophet, so is Jesus

What else did Mohamed do, other than correct the distortions of Rome?

And I worship the creator, and none other

As I said:

you seem to be mesmerised by the messenger to the neglect of the message:

Thats hubris, a sin of mans ego

[john white]

Still, moving on:

What IS "True" Christianity?

How does one discern "True" Christianity from "False" Christianity?

Its something I always like to ask NEW AGE Christians ;)

[soglad]

I think "true" Christians, or "new age" Christians just more people waking up to the illusion, but still find it hard to abandon the God program. Imagine if you will the child who is learning to cycle, "God" is holding them up, making sure they don't fall, as soon as they realize they can cycle by themselves, they are too afraid they'll fall off and lose it all, so they keep "God" pushing them although they try to tell God which way to push them. If you get my drift. :cool:

[titurel]

If Mohamed is a false prophet, so is Jesus
We'll have to disagree on that...


As I said:

you seem to be mesmerised by the messenger to the neglect of the message:

Thats hubris, a sin of mans ego
Part of the message was that we should separate ourselves, through gaining spiritual wisdom, from those who do not wish to follow God. You seem to have bought the belief system of the illuminati system hook line and sinker...

[john white]

I think "true" Christians, or "new age" Christians just more people waking up to the illusion, but still find it hard to abandon the God program. Imagine if you will the child who is learning to cycle, "God" is holding them up, making sure they don't fall, as soon as they realize they can cycle by themselves, they are too afraid they'll fall off and lose it all, so they keep "God" pushing them although they try to tell God which way to push them. If you get my drift. :cool:

I certainly do mate

Its all to obvious

Especially when we are dealing with a body of texts re-written more times than the Windows operating system: the vast majority of which were deliberatley junked!

for example: 14 gospels before Nicea: 4 afterwards!

[john white]

We'll have to disagree on that...



Part of the message was that we should separate ourselves, through gaining spiritual wisdom, from those who do not wish to follow God. You seem to have bought the belief system of the illuminati system hook line and sinker...

And how do you get that?

I worship the creator, you worship a man? Who told you to worship the creator!

So the illuminati want us all to acknowledge the creator then?

But I thought you said they wanted to destroy God?

Seems like its your thoughts that are something of a mess....

Obviously too much of a mess to answer this:

What IS "True" Christianity?

How does one discern "True" Christianity from "False" Christianity?

Either you have the truth, and can answer

Or you don't have the truth: which is why you can't

[titurel]

I think "true" Christians, or "new age" Christians just more people waking up to the illusion, but still find it hard to abandon the God program. Imagine if you will the child who is learning to cycle, "God" is holding them up, making sure they don't fall, as soon as they realize they can cycle by themselves, they are too afraid they'll fall off and lose it all, so they keep "God" pushing them although they try to tell God which way to push them. If you get my drift. :cool:
The reason why the world is careering towards an abyss is because man is increasingly rejecting God. Without God, humanity is doomed because there is no man or group of men strong enough to vanquish the Reptilians.

More and more people are becoming mind control slaves to the atheism program and are unable to abandon it.

Without a leader, man is a mess.

[titurel]

Still, moving on:

What IS "True" Christianity?

How does one discern "True" Christianity from "False" Christianity?

Its something I always like to ask NEW AGE Christians
There isn't any difference between New Age Christians and New Age Pagans if they are both following Luciferian dogma. True Christianity is about paying attention to what the Bible actually says, instead of blindly trusting what others say the Bible says.

[titurel]

And how do you get that?

I worship the creator, you worship a man?
Which creator do you worship? (and no, I do not worship man).

Who told you to worship the creator!
No one!

So the illuminati want us all to acknowledge the creator then?
The illuminati wants everyone to worship themselves and the material world.

But I thought you said they wanted to destroy God?
They would like to erase mankind's memory of God but they can't succeed!

Seems like its your thoughts that are something of a mess....
Looking at you avatar, it's your mind that looks like a mess!

What IS "True" Christianity?

How does one discern "True" Christianity from "False" Christianity?
See the post above...

[tinmenace]

Looking at you avatar, it's your mind that looks like a mess!


See the post above...

http://www.globalfailure.com/images/troll.JPG

[soglad]

The reason why the world is careering towards an abyss is because man is increasingly rejecting God. Without God, humanity is doomed because there is no man or group of men strong enough to vanquish the Reptilians.

More and more people are becoming mind control slaves to the atheism program and are unable to abandon it.

Without a leader, man is a mess.

I think what is REALLY going on here is not the human race killing itself by rejecting God, but rather rejecting God, the false realities dictated through religions, secret societies, governments and ignorance and realizing that WE are truly GOD, each and every one of us capable of preforming miracles, once we reject false beliefs and thought prisons (see film The Matrix).

What you perceive as man killing itself through lack of belief in God, is actually man realizing he is God and the social upheavals and consequences of this knowledge. Of course this will cause chaos, but change can be perceived as beautiful for some and disastrous for those who don't understand it.

You ARE GOD, you may stop looking.

[tinmenace]

I think what is REALLY going on here is not the human race killing itself by rejecting God, but rather rejecting God, the false realities dictated through religions, secret societies, governments and ignorance and realizing that WE are truly GOD, each and every one of us capable of preforming miracles, once we reject false beliefs and thought prisons (see film The Matrix).

What you perceive as man killing itself through lack of belief in God, is actually man realizing he is God and the social upheavals and consequences of this knowledge. Of course this will cause chaos, but change can be perceived as beautiful for some and disastrous for those who don't understand it.

You ARE GOD, you may stop looking.

http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/3/3D_emoticon_S202.gif

[titurel]

http://www.globalfailure.com/images/troll.JPG
So that's what a tin menace looks like! LOL!

[titurel]

WE are truly GOD
Yes, that's exactly what George Bush believes too... but he doesn't look like a god to me!

Only someone who is severely brain washed and deluded would call George Bush GOD!

[tinmenace]

So that's what a tin menace looks like! LOL!

Ah! There you are! Glad to see you've dropped the pretentious nonsense and decided to just be yourself. ;) Now we can see what we're really dealing with :)

[titurel]

I think what is REALLY going on here is not the human race killing itself by rejecting God, but rather rejecting God, the false realities dictated through religions, secret societies, governments and ignorance and realizing that WE are truly GOD, each and every one of us capable of preforming miracles, once we reject false beliefs and thought prisons (see film The Matrix).

What you perceive as man killing itself through lack of belief in God, is actually man realizing he is God and the social upheavals and consequences of this knowledge. Of course this will cause chaos, but change can be perceived as beautiful for some and disastrous for those who don't understand it.

You ARE GOD, you may stop looking.
We are not GODS - that's what vain deluded people believe like George Bush.

Without a leader, man has no compass and without a compass, mankind is lost and that is why the world is heading towards chaos.

[john white]

Very un-impressed with you titural

Just another the-bible-is-the-literal-truth-of-god merchant who utterly ignores history and is lost in delusion:when it comes to real answer: you havn't got any, just reflections of your own mind

You might as well be Billy Graham, and we know what a kiddie fiddling satanist he is!

You sir, are a willing SLAVE to the New World Order, trapped by your own fear to see further than the comfortable cage designed and laid out for you

God made us to stand on our feet, not crawl on our knees: but you cannot help yourself but beg for a Dark Master to lead you: he will be foul, but will appear fair, and he will say the right words to trigger your programme and you will obey

It doesnt have to be that way:

Open your heart to love God and God's Love can reach you:

No worshipping of middlemen to prop up your ego required

This is what every prophet has done their level best to help humanity understand!

----------------------------

I worship the creator, you worship a man? Who told you to worship the creator!

So the illuminati want us all to acknowledge the creator then?

But I thought you said they wanted to destroy God?

Seems like its your thoughts that are something of a mess....

Obviously too much of a mess to answer this:

What IS "True" Christianity?

How does one discern "True" Christianity from "False" Christianity?

Either you have the truth, and can answer

Or you don't have the truth: which is why you can't

-----------------------------------------

If you are trying to tell me that the bible is untouched by "them", you only tell me how little you really understand about scripture and how to understand it

[soglad]

Yes, that's exactly what George Bush believes too... but he doesn't look like a god to me!

Only someone who is severely brain washed and deluded would call George Bush GOD!

No no no no. What you are entailing is an EGO, which can be disastrous. Believing you're God is believing YOU have the ultimate power to project love and CHOSE love, irrelevant of race or creed. It is realizing you are infinite possibility and that the only person who is in control of you are the people who WANT control over you. It is realizing there is more to the self than the physical body, realizing that what we call an external "God" maybe another expression of ourselves!

[titurel]

Ah! There you are! Glad to see you've dropped the pretentious nonsense and decided to just be yourself. ;) Now we can see what we're really dealing with :)
Yes, we're dealing with a tin menace! :) Good to see you've dropped your pretentions too!

[tinmenace]

Yes, we're dealing with a tin menace! :) Good to see you've dropped your pretentions too!

Nah, I'm pretty consistent. ;)

You, on the other hand, tried really hard to come across as a sincere poster, but that snippiness just couldn't stay contained, could it?

http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/8351/rotflmaoke0.gif

[titurel]

No no no no. What you are entailing is an EGO, which can be disastrous. Believing you're God is believing YOU have the ultimate power to project love and CHOSE love, irrelevant of race or creed. It is realizing you are infinite possibility and that the only person who is in control of you are the people who WANT control over you. It is realizing there is more to the self than the physical body, realizing that what we call an external "God" maybe another expression of ourselves!
To say we are GODS is utterly meaningless. We are not GODS but ordinary human beings. It's ego and vanity that wants to look in the mirror of the mind, imaginging that the reflection we see before us is GOD.

We do have infinite potential but if anyone were to come up to me in a pub and tell me they are GOD, I would not take them very seriously. Pompous git would spring to mind...

[john white]

No no no no. What you are entailing is an EGO, which can be disastrous. Believing you're God is believing YOU have the ultimate power to project love and CHOSE love, irrelevant of race or creed. It is realizing you are infinite possibility and that the only person who is in control of you are the people who WANT control over you. It is realizing there is more to the self than the physical body, realizing that what we call an external "God" maybe another expression of ourselves!

It's about realising what "God created us in "his" own image" really means:

It means that we are all vessels for God, if we free will choose to align ourselves with "him":

(Source energy, Christ Consciousness, Infinite Love)

And lost in the dark battling ourselves (ego, Satan) and believing it to be "evil" from outside if we do not

Prophets are there for those so lost as to believe they need them: until they realise they do not, and never did, for God is with them all the time in every sense

Jesus: "The Kingdom of Heaven is within you"

Mohammed: "God is closer to you than your jugular vein"

[titurel]

Nah, I'm pretty consistent. ;)

You, on the other hand, tried really hard to come across as a sincere poster, but that snippiness just couldn't stay contained, could it?
Who said I'm not being sincere? I'm speaking my mind and if that has upset you, it's your problem. It's not my fault you posted a picture of a tin menace! LOL! :)

[tinmenace]

Who said I'm not being sincere? I'm speaking my mind and if that has upset you, it's your problem. It's not my fault you posted a picture of a tin menace! LOL! :)

http://www.globalfailure.com/images/emotes/whine.gif



http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/8351/rotflmaoke0.gif

[soglad]

To say we are GODS is utterly meaningless. We are not GODS but ordinary human beings. It's ego and vanity that wants to look in the mirror of the mind, imaginging that the reflection we see before us is GOD.

We do have infinite potential but if anyone were to come up to me in a pub and tell me they are GOD, I would not take them very seriously. Pompous git would spring to mind...

Ok, whatever you say you are is what you will be. From this time forward you will only be a meaningless human being, I for one am more than a "human being" I am everything all at once all the time.

[tinmenace]

Who said I'm not being sincere? I'm speaking my mind and if that has upset you, it's your problem. It's not my fault you posted a picture of a tin menace! LOL! :)

:) You're still just an apprentice, I see. Let me know when you bring out the real insults. I'm bored with you now...

...toodles :)

[titurel]

It's about realising what "God created us in "his" own image" really means:

It means that we are all vessels for God, if we free will choose to align ourselves with "him":

(Source energy, Christ Consciousness, Infinite Love)
We could argue over the defintion of god all day long, but for me GOD is a supreme being, who created us in his image and not the other way round. We are not creators and no one person is supreme in the sense that GOD is.

[titurel]

:) You're still just an apprentice, I see. Let me know when you bring out the real insults. I'm bored with you now...:)
I am still learning, yes and I have enough humility to admit that, so your attempted insult has missed the mark, yet again. :) I am also bored with you, btw! :)

[tinmenace]

Anybody want to explain the Annunaki 'god' creating man in his own image through genetic engineering?

You're welcome to believe whatever you want Tit. That's your right.

[cheeb]

Who said I'm not being sincere? I'm speaking my mind and if that has upset you, it's your problem. It's not my fault you posted a picture of a tin menace! LOL! :)
Be gentile with this one,
you are dealing with a frightened child,
clinging desparatley to his security blanket,
sometimes it's best to show them a bit of love,
rather than a rebuke.

[titurel]

Ok, whatever you say you are is what you will be. From this time forward you will only be a meaningless human being, I for one am more than a "human being" I am everything all at once all the time.
Why is it meaningless to be human? Your ego seems to have got the better of you!

[titurel]

Anybody want to explain the Annunaki 'god' creating man in his own image through genetic engineering?
I don't believe that the Annunaki God created humanity, so your presumption is flawed, but you can believe what you like!

[soglad]

Why is it meaningless to be human? Your ego seems to have got the better of you!

I thought I left religious circle debates behind me, I suppose it's come back to haunt me.

RIGHT, let's recap.......YOU have said there is a benevolent being we should all praise and should lead us, and that if we were to take control of our own life, the world will end. THAT is why I say you're envision that we should just be "humans" is meaningless and submissive.

If God wants me to be his slave and obey him, he is a fascist or scared of our power.

[soglad]

I don't believe that the Annunaki God created humanity, so your presumption is flawed, but you can believe what you like!

Annunaki creation is based on texts saying so...........Christian creation is based on texts saying so..........if you were thought Annunaki creation in class as a child (or by your family) would you believe it to be true and take the Christian creation and false?

Your beliefs have solid foundations on a piece of writing which has NO author nor factual evidence. Bible says the heavens and earth was created, not very specific. Annunaki give us a list of planet we hadn't even discovered yet. Who do I trust?

[titurel]

I thought I left religious circle debates behind me, I suppose it's come back to haunt me.

RIGHT, let's recap.......YOU have said there is a benevolent being we should all praise and should lead us, and that if we were to take control of our own life, the world will end. THAT is why I say you're envision that we should just be "humans" is meaningless and submissive.

If God wants me to be his slave and obey him, he is a fascist or scared of our power.
I never said you or anyone should praise God. It's up to you what you and every other person how they should live their lives... each has to make his or her own choices and be responsible for them!

I also didn't say that if we take control of our own lives the world will end. You're putting words into my mouth. I said that man is too weak to combat the Reptilians on his own. Only God can remove these supernatural beings from the world scene. Man cannot do that and you haven't addressed that point. Neither do I follow any fascist God that wants us to be his slaves!

[john white]

It's about realising what "God created us in "his" own image" really means:

It means that we are all vessels for God, if we free will choose to align ourselves with "him":

(Source energy, Christ Consciousness, Infinite Love)



We could argue over the defintion of god all day long, but for me GOD is a supreme being, who created us in his image and not the other way round. We are not creators and no one person is supreme in the sense that GOD is.

Just whose post are you replying to?

Not mine. Did mine say "we are creators"? Or "we are God"?

No. It didnt.

It said "we are vessels for God"

What, exactly, do you think the disciples learned when they were filled with the "Holy Spirit"?

Never thought about that?

Sorry mate, but your way out of your depth and having a conversation all of your own with the inside of your own head...

[john white]

So, to summarise, we have leaned that "true" chrsitianity isnt an obstacle to anything, especially the New World Order, except the continued spiritual growth of its adherants, becuase it doesnt even know what it, in itself, is

[john white]

Now "Mystic" Christians like Biggus Diccus, thats the kind of fella I respect and who are making a significant difference to this world

[titurel]

Just whose post are you replying to?

Not mine. Did mine say "we are creators"? Or "we are God"?

No. It didnt.

It said "we are vessels for God"
I'm glad you're saying we are not God, and I also agree that we are vessels for God. I've never said otherwise!

[titurel]

So, to summarise, we have leaned that "true" chrsitianity isnt an obstacle to anything, especially the New World Order, except the continued spiritual growth of its adherants, becuase it doesnt even know what it, in itself, is
Keep sticking your head in the sand! True Christianity is an obstacle for the elite because they are preparing Armageddon and war with God. That is what the current world situation is all about!

[titurel]

Now "Mystic" Christians like Biggus Diccus, thats the kind of fella I respect and who are making a significant difference to this world
That's hardly what I call debate...

[soglad]

Keep sticking your head in the sand! True Christianity is an obstacle for the elite because they are preparing Armageddon and war with God. That is what the current world situation is all about!

Again, I'd say war with US, not God. Governments are more scared of us.

[sweet cheeks]

From the very well thought out article below:

"Christians, specifically, are cited as the main obstacle hindering the success of this New Age-New World Order."

---

The "new" world order or occult secret destiny?

The New Age Movement and Service to The Plan
Illuminati Conspiracy Archive
by Terry Melanson

Last updated: 2nd May 2005, ©2001

The New World Order as envisioned by the Elite is hardly a recent undertaking. Theirs is a philosophy rooted in ancient occult traditions. Success is near, and the infiltration of society by New Age occultism is the reason for this success. The New World Order has never been solely about world government, rather, from the beginning its proponents have been privy to secret doctrines and it is a spiritual plan more than anything.

If one failed to take into account the occult nature of the New World Order, they would be remiss. The UN and the New Age have been bed-fellows since the beginning. America's secret destiny is the product of Rosicrucian and Freemason forefathers. The New Atlantis as proposed in Francis Bacon's work is almost at hand. The Ancient Mysteries are being studied for illumination and enlightenment by the New World Order's elite. Not to mention the New Age gurus — dutifully recruiting on behalf of the Secret Brotherhood.

In 1980, Marylin Ferguson compiled and espoused a synthesis involving the theories of transformation and the secret plan of the Aquarian Age. In her studies of the scientific advancements of this age involving entropy and syntropy, holism, holographs, paradigm shifts, the uncertainty principle and evolution, she discovered that, "for the first time an American renaissance is taking place in all disciplines, breaking the boundaries between them, transforming them at their farthest reaches—where they all converge." (The Aquarian Conspiracy, p.12)

Speaking of the networks and web of influence, Ferguson proclaimed: "There are legions of conspirators... in corporations, universities, hospitals, on the faculties of public schools, in factories, in doctors' offices, in state and federal agencies, on city councils and the White House staff, in state organizations, in virtually all arenas of policy making in the country [U.S.]...[including] at the cabinet level of the United States Government." (ibid. p.24) However, other New Age proponents said that this is innacurate, in that she had understated the influence of the New Age worldwide, especially in the UN and the EEC.

It is no coincidence that America has become the center of New Age and New World Order conspiracies. The Theosophical and Rosicrucian traditions hold that every nation has a spiritual destiny guided by a hierarchy of beings using all ethical (or un-ethical) means of manifesting the "divine plan" through the will of the nation's leaders.

A proponent of the New Age and the Secret Brotherhood's plan for a New World Order is Robert Hieronimus. In his book "America's Secret Destiny", he traced the spiritual vision of America's founding fathers and the plan's eventual fruition in what we call the New World Order and the New Age Movement (both of which are synonymous). He stresses that the founding fathers of America had the equivalent of "Masters" and were pupils in a sense, much like today's powerful Elite have Masters and Gurus, following the teachings of the Great Plan.

According to Rosicrucians and Theosophists, supporting the divine plan are great beings refered to as masters of the physical and spiritual planes. The evolution of America owes much to the seed thoughts of four masters—Kuthumi, El Morya, Rogoczy, and Djwhal Khul. Some of the founders of America may have been consciously or unconsciously students of these teachers, just as some contemporary Americans are pupils of these masters. In fact, the motto of the heirarchy of world teachers is identical with America's destiny—the brotherhood of man and the Fatherhood of God. (p.95)

Another writer, from the opposite camp, confirms the assertions of Heironimus. Willy Peterson writes:

In order to reach their aims of world unity and thus engage the whole world in service to the Plan, "enlightened" Freemasons and New Agers have been pushing for collectivist motifs that promote monistic pantheism and unity. This is why the chief instigators to the globalist League of Nations and the United Nations have been Theosophists, trying to work out the plan. This is why the verbiage and aims at the U.N. is for world peace and brotherhood. It is a spiritual undertaking in a secular world. Lucis Trust has had three think-tanks located at the U.N. Plaza in New York for around fifty years. No wonder the former Assistant Secretary General to the U.N., Robert Muller, is a devoted disciple of Alice Bailey, whose book, A Treatise on White Magic, forms the basis for the Robert Muller schools. (The Leavening)

These people are called the torchbearers or lightbearers of the New World Order. A spiritual plan that has been traced to the time of Nimrod and the Tower of Babel, up through to the Illuminati and onwards. "A loosely-knit world conspiracy," David Allen Lewis writes, "a so called Network of Illuminists." "Whether the Illuminati has one special organization that is its orginal descendant... we can be very sure that its philosophical torchbearers are represented by literally hundreds of organizations and individuals in many diverse realms." (Dark Angels of Light)

A Blueprint For Destiny

Robert Heironomus says that "America's Great Seal may be seen as a blueprint for the elevation of consciousness. It says, in part, that we must transform ourselves before we can change the world, and that it is during the process of self-transformation that we can catch a glimpse of what part we are to play in national and global transformation."

The mandala of the New World Order and Illuminati control. "Annuit Coeptis—He has Blessed our Beginning", "Novus Ordo Seclorum—New Order of the Ages". The All-Seeing Eye of Horus, the resurrected Egyptian Sun God, biblically refered to as Lucifer, the angel of light.

In occult doctrine it is thought that "from the union of spirit and matter (the pyramid is made of stone, rock, and earth—and represents the unconscious. The capstone is made of an immaterial substance—light or spirit—and is conscious), a new being—a transformed being—is created. The seal's reverse depicts a separation state in the separation of the eye the triangle."

"The pyramid exemplifies the initiation stage... it is the house of initiation, in which the candidate confronts the world of darkness and enters the world of spirit. By passing the tests of the elements, the candidate is initiated into the realm of higher consciousness." (Heironimus ibid., p.92) After succesfully completing the initiation process, the candidate is reborn, and joins the single eye in the pyramid.

The New World Order, or rather the philosophy its deliverers hold to be true, is one and the same as the New Age ideal of man's divinity and self-transformation. In order to partake in this gnostic fufillment of "The Great Plan" one must awaken to the original sin of Lucifer, as proposed to Eve in the Garden of Eden, that "we can be as Gods." (Genesis 3:5) So it is not suprising to find that Christians, specifically, are cited as the main obstacle hindering the success of this New Age-New World Order.

The reason for this is the New Age belief in many "saviors" and "enlightened teachers", masters and gurus — its all good and fine when the goal is the false teaching of man's divinity. The New Agers see many ways to salvation; Christians proclaim that there is only one Way - Jesus Christ. "For the gate is small, and narrow that leads to life, and few are those who find it." (Matthew 7:14) The Bible states that this is in reality the "broad way that leads to destruction, and many are those who enter it." (Matthew 7:13) Therefore, the only religion not compatible with The New Age, and hence the coming New World Order, is the belief and strict adherence in the Word of God – with traditional Christianity being looked upon as particularly pernicious.

In Dark Secrets of the New Age, Texe Marrs wrote:

"The New Age is a universal open-arms religion that excludes from its ranks only those who believe in Jesus Christ and a Personal God. Buddhists, Shintoist, Satanists, Secular Humanists, witches, witch doctors and shamans — All who reject Christianity are invited to become trusted members of the New Age family. Worshippers of separate faiths and denominations are to be unified in a common purpose: THE GLORIFICATION OF MAN."

The Guardians of the Mysteries

Freemasonry, by its own accord, practices the ancient mysteries of Egypt, and has as a primary goal, the re-instatement of this mystery religion for the coming World Order.

"The magical mystery religion of Ancient Egypt exercised a great fascination over Renaissance man, which was incorporated into—the newly formed—Lodges at that time. The mysterious heiroglyphs were considered to be symbols of hidden knowledge. Symbols and gestures became a means of conveying secrets and "truths". The cosmos was seen as an organic unity. It was peopled by a hierarchy of spirits which exercised all kinds of influences and sympathies. The practice of magic became a holy quest." (Michael Rogge, "New Age Spirituality, The roots of the New Age Movement", Part I)

Back in 1927, Freemason W.L. Wilmhurst saw the dawning of the Aquarian Age as the fufillment of the "Plan". In "The Meaning of Masonry", p.4, he writes:

"In this new Aquarian age, when many individuals and groups are working in various ways for the eventual restoration of the mysteries, an increasing number of aspirants are beginning to recognize that Freemasonry may well be the vehicle for this achievement."

He would be well proud, I'm sure, of today's mainstream acceptance of those very same occult mysteries. Another passage on page 46-47, proves the teaching of Freemasonry is the same as New Age beliefs:

"He begins his Masonic career as the natural man; he ends it by becoming through its discipline, a regenerated man... This the evolution of man into superman—was always the purpose of the ancient Mysteries, and the real purpose of modern Masonry is, not the social and charitable purposes to which so much attention is paid, but the expediting of the spiritual evolution of those who aspire to perfect their own nature and transform it into a more god-like quality."

"Freemasonry, through its mysteries, will soon usher in a New World Religion for the New World Order. A modern day Tower of Babel and the ultimate unification of the world's religions. The New Age welcomes these goals and looks to the "light" of Masonry as its esoteric basis for occult initiation into the New World Order."

Benjamin Creme writes:

"The New Religion will manifest, for instance, through organizations like Masonry. In Freemasonry is embedded the core or the secret heart of the occult mysteries, wrapped up on number, metaphor and symbol..." ("The Reappearance of the Christ and the Masters of Wisdom", p.87)

Freemason and co-founder of Lucifer Publishing Company (now called Lucis Trust), Foster Bailey, 33rd degree Freemason and wife of Alice Bailey, concured:

"Is it not possible from a contemplation of this side of Masonic teaching that it may provide all that is necessary for the formulation of a universal religion?" ("The Spirit of Masonry", p.113)

Foster Bailey states that Masonry "is the descendant of, or is founded upon, a divinely imparted religion..." This religion he explains, "...was the first United World Religion. Then came the era of separation of many religions and sectarianism. Today we are working again towards a World Universal Religion." (ibid p.31)

To biblical students these are shocking admissions and it adds fuel to the charge of a Masonic Antichrist in our midst. "It is these Mysteries which Christ will restore upon His reapearance," Alice Bailey reveals, "thus reviving the churches in a new form, and restoring the hidden Mystery." ("The Reappearance of the Christ", p. 122)

Bailey was giving these "revelations" by her channeled Master Djwhal Khul — a disembodied "Ascended Master". Her "Christ" is indeed the Antichrist in the strictest sense of the word. Antichrist means substitute for or in place of Christ. She goes on to say:

"These ancient Mysteries were originally given to humanity by the Hierarchy [of which Djwhal Khul is a part of] and contain the entire clue to the evolutionary process, hidden in numbers, in ritual, in words and in symbology; these veil the secret of man's origin and destiny, picturing to him in rite and ritual, the long, long path which he must tread, back into the light." (ibid, p.121-22)

So what do we have here?

* The New Age tells its disciples that they are working for the Hierarchy.

* The teachings of the New Age are giving by the Hierarchy.

* The movement for the installement of the Antichrist is giving the go-ahead by the Hierarchy

* Djwhal Khul's number one message for New Age disciples is "prepare men for the reappearance of the Christ. This is your first duty." (The Externalization of the Hierarchy, p.614)

* The Ancient Mysteries, being practiced by both Freemasonry and the New Age, were giving to humanity by the Hierarchy.

* The real purpose of Masonry — taught to man, from the Hierarchy — is the expediting of the spiritual evolution, to transform their nature into a god-like superman.

* The Serpent caused the Fall in the Garden of Eden by giving Eve this very same message.

"Man is a god in the making. And as the mystic myths of Egypt, on the potter's wheel, he is being molded. When his light shines out to lift and preserve all things, he receives the triple crown of godhood." (Manly P. Hall, The Lost Keys of Freemasonry, p.92)

"European mysticism was not dead at the time the United States of America was founded. The hand of the mysteries controlled in the establishment of the new government for the signature of the mysteries may still be seen on the Great Seal of the United states of America. Careful analysis of the seal discloses a mass of occult and masonic symbols chief among them, the so-called American Eagle. ... the American eagle upon the Great Seal is but a conventionalised phoenix...

"Not only were many of the founders of the United States government Masons, but they received aid from a secret and august body existing in Europe which helped them to establish this country for A PECULIAR AND PARTICULAR PURPOSE known only to the intiated few." (Manly P. Hall, The Secret Teachings of All Ages, pp.40-41)

Uhmm.....no.

There are people with "no beliefs" that would GLADLY pick up a weapon and DEFEND their freedom.

End of.

It's not just the "christians" - they are the easy ones. They've had a game plan for them all along, in fact they are a part of the NWO.

Now if you can think outside the set paradigm....

[titurel]

Again, I'd say war with US, not God. Governments are more scared of us.
We're caught in the middle of a war that is taking place in higher dimensions. Mankind isn't able to defeat an enemy that is other dimensional on his own.

[titurel]

Uhmm.....no.

There are people with "no beliefs" that would GLADLY pick up a weapon and DEFEND their freedom.

End of.

It's not just the "christians" - they are the easy ones. They've had a game plan for them all along, in fact they are a part of the NWO.

Now if you can think outside the set paradigm....
Christians involved in organised religions are mostly unwittingly and unconsciously part of the NWO agenda, but the real problem for the illuminati is God and it's mankind's connection with God that the elite are trying to break.

[cheeb]

I never said you or anyone should praise God. It's up to you what you and every other person how they should live their lives... each has to make his or her own choices and be responsible for them!

I also didn't say that if we take control of our own lives the world will end. You're putting words into my mouth. I said that man is too weak to combat the Reptilians on his own. Only God can remove these supernatural beings from the world scene. Man cannot do that and you haven't addressed that point. Neither do I follow any fascist God that wants us to be his slaves!

The basic tenet of islam is submission to allah,
Christianity was founded on the idea of a suffering servant of God
(Isiah)
If you do not follow a god that wants mankind to do his bidding,
what kind of god do you follow

[john white]

The basic tenet of islam is submission to allah,
Christianity was founded on the idea of a suffering servant of God
(Isiah)
If you do not follow a god that wants mankind to do his bidding,
what kind of god do you follow

Judaism=Obeidiance of God
Christianity= Forgiveness through God
Islam=Submission to God

Truth in all three, exclusive truth in none

And the whole lot has been ported straight from Egypt, and before that Babylon, all the way back to the first prophet, Hermes Trig

Keep sticking your head in the sand! True Christianity is an obstacle for the elite because they are preparing Armageddon and war with God. That is what the current world situation is all about!

That would be a lot more convincing if you could tell me what it is:

The best you can do so far is say "Obey the bible" without any recognition that the illuminati compiled it and largely (repeatedly) re-wrote it: at that point, I know your empty of real understanding

[john white]

There are people with "no beliefs" that would GLADLY pick up a weapon and DEFEND their freedom.

End of.

It's not just the "christians" - they are the easy ones. They've had a game plan for them all along, in fact they are a part of the NWO.

Now if you can think outside the set paradigm....

Spot on Sweet Cheeks

[titurel]

The basic tenet of islam is submission to allah,
Christianity was founded on the idea of a suffering servant of God
(Isiah)
If you do not follow a god that wants mankind to do his bidding,
what kind of god do you follow
The God I follow wants us to be freed from submission to the Reptilains. You're idea that God wants us to be suffering slaves, in submission to him, and doing his bidding, is unfounded, IMO.

[titurel]

Judaism=Obeidiance of God
Christianity= Forgiveness through God
Islam=Submission to God

Truth in all three, exclusive truth in none
There is truth in all religions but I agree no one organised religion has exclusive truth because all organised religions are the product of the illuminati. However, the Bible does portray an accurate picture of world, IMO.

And the whole lot has been ported straight from Egypt, and before that Babylon, all the way back to the first prophet, Hermes Trig
Yes, organised religions have been imported from Babylon and Egypt but not the Bible. The Bible is a thorn in the side of the illuminati because, IMO, it reveals the truth!

The best you can do so far is say "Obey the bible" without any recognition that the illuminati compiled it and largely (repeatedly) re-wrote it: at that point, I know your empty of real understanding
The illuminati didn't write the Bible! The illuminati are Satanists! They hate the Bible and probably wish it had never been written! I see nothing wrong in obeying God if it means being able to live in freedom and bliss on a paradise earth. Man will never be able to achieve that with a man as leader!

[cheeb]

It's not my idea titurel
I'M pretty much a full on aetheist (cover your eyes) these days,
It's just that I pretty much know the scriptures
From a catholic childhood,then born againners, and finally j,w,'s.
Ive made it a Choice to study Islam
Through the quaran and the Haddith(sayings of Mohammid pboh)
And also a basic study of the Torah and the first 5 books of the old testament,
These are the basics of Abrahamic religions,
Where they branched out'
Be it with ishmael/issac
jesus
mohammid
is of no concern to me,
Its not my idea of God,
It's basically a mosiac interpretation

Of a desert demon

I AM WHO I AM

I beleive was how he introduced himself to Moses

You are happy to follow this.

Good luck to you

You will probably need it

[titurel]

It's basically a mosiac interpretation

Of a desert demon
I don't follow a desert demon... you might, but I don't, and you still haven't answered the question of how mortal men, on their own, can overcome demons/Reptlians, who are controlling our world, without assistance from God. You don't seem to have any answers!

[baron von lotsov]

Very well, it means nothing to you, but you still haven't answered my questions.

How do you differentiate?

What is your definition of a Christian, and how do you identify them?


A Christian is someone who practices the teachings of the Bible. You can 'differentiate' in the same way as with anything someone proclaims to be. There are two things to consider as I have already said, the one being intention and the other being action. It takes intelligence and careful observation to figure out what someone's intention is but I think that if you are true to yourself you can pick up a better intuitive perception of truth and falsehood in your surroundings. One of the biggest traps of the occult is an intuitive blinding. If you consider that normally you would feel that doing evil is wrong, well an occultist looses this intuitive feeling, where they are essentially lost. They have rejected the truth and all they then have to choose from is one set of lies or another.

This is quite overwhelmingly evident on this forum. Most threads are slow moving but this has already run into 17 pages. I sense that a lot of people on here are very confused and they have probably tried all manner of different belief systems and each time not found any satisfaction in them and have had to go from one to the next after finding each one is false. This is quite tormenting and as the Bible has said all along that those who reject the truth will be committed to a life of hell.

Now hell is not a physical place as such, it is intense and unrelenting mental unrest coupled with fear and generally a cold heart. There are different levels of this but the occult is a trap and once entered into it, as with many types of trap, it draws you further and further in. The ultimate end to this path is death. Very sad but true and I can recall countless occultists who have died. Some of the deaths I have seen locally are as follows. Suicide, shootings, cancer & brain tumours, car accidents. There are probably some others as well and some have been put down to bad luck like someone I knew who had a girlfriend who was 21 when she died of cancer. That's almost unheard of but she was a witch. Not one death in all the time I have lived here has been to a Christian, except for old age of course. That's a fact, take it as you please.

[kasalt]

I have already posted this on the third page of this thread, but I see it got overlooked, so I will repeat it and this time I will address it specifically to titurel and request a reply:


In order to partake in this gnostic fufillment of "The Great Plan" one must awaken to the original sin of Lucifer, as proposed to Eve in the Garden of Eden, that "we can be as Gods." (Genesis 3:5)


If the "original sin of Lucifer" is that "we can be as gods", then how do you explain the following:

Psalm 82:6
I have said, Ye are gods...

John 10:33-34
The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

[baron von lotsov]

Yes there are contradictions in the Bible but remember it has been translated over and over again and is a very old book. What most Christians find is that their own experiences verify what it talks about. The main point is that man is not god, only occultists believe this. One of the most famous proponents of this idea was Nietzsche and his concept of the superman in books like 'Thus Spake Zarathustra' which I actually have a copy of.

[king]

From the very well thought out article below:

"Christians, specifically, are cited as the main obstacle hindering the success of this New Age-New World Order."

---

The "new" world order or occult secret destiny?

The New Age Movement and Service to The Plan
Illuminati Conspiracy Archive
by Terry Melanson

Last updated: 2nd May 2005, ©2001

The New World Order as envisioned by the Elite is hardly a recent undertaking. Theirs is a philosophy rooted in ancient occult traditions. Success is near, and the infiltration of society by New Age occultism is the reason for this success. The New World Order has never been solely about world government, rather, from the beginning its proponents have been privy to secret doctrines and it is a spiritual plan more than anything.

If one failed to take into account the occult nature of the New World Order, they would be remiss. The UN and the New Age have been bed-fellows since the beginning. America's secret destiny is the product of Rosicrucian and Freemason forefathers. The New Atlantis as proposed in Francis Bacon's work is almost at hand. The Ancient Mysteries are being studied for illumination and enlightenment by the New World Order's elite. Not to mention the New Age gurus — dutifully recruiting on behalf of the Secret Brotherhood.

In 1980, Marylin Ferguson compiled and espoused a synthesis involving the theories of transformation and the secret plan of the Aquarian Age. In her studies of the scientific advancements of this age involving entropy and syntropy, holism, holographs, paradigm shifts, the uncertainty principle and evolution, she discovered that, "for the first time an American renaissance is taking place in all disciplines, breaking the boundaries between them, transforming them at their farthest reaches—where they all converge." (The Aquarian Conspiracy, p.12)

Speaking of the networks and web of influence, Ferguson proclaimed: "There are legions of conspirators... in corporations, universities, hospitals, on the faculties of public schools, in factories, in doctors' offices, in state and federal agencies, on city councils and the White House staff, in state organizations, in virtually all arenas of policy making in the country [U.S.]...[including] at the cabinet level of the United States Government." (ibid. p.24) However, other New Age proponents said that this is innacurate, in that she had understated the influence of the New Age worldwide, especially in the UN and the EEC.

It is no coincidence that America has become the center of New Age and New World Order conspiracies. The Theosophical and Rosicrucian traditions hold that every nation has a spiritual destiny guided by a hierarchy of beings using all ethical (or un-ethical) means of manifesting the "divine plan" through the will of the nation's leaders.

A proponent of the New Age and the Secret Brotherhood's plan for a New World Order is Robert Hieronimus. In his book "America's Secret Destiny", he traced the spiritual vision of America's founding fathers and the plan's eventual fruition in what we call the New World Order and the New Age Movement (both of which are synonymous). He stresses that the founding fathers of America had the equivalent of "Masters" and were pupils in a sense, much like today's powerful Elite have Masters and Gurus, following the teachings of the Great Plan.

According to Rosicrucians and Theosophists, supporting the divine plan are great beings refered to as masters of the physical and spiritual planes. The evolution of America owes much to the seed thoughts of four masters—Kuthumi, El Morya, Rogoczy, and Djwhal Khul. Some of the founders of America may have been consciously or unconsciously students of these teachers, just as some contemporary Americans are pupils of these masters. In fact, the motto of the heirarchy of world teachers is identical with America's destiny—the brotherhood of man and the Fatherhood of God. (p.95)

Another writer, from the opposite camp, confirms the assertions of Heironimus. Willy Peterson writes:

In order to reach their aims of world unity and thus engage the whole world in service to the Plan, "enlightened" Freemasons and New Agers have been pushing for collectivist motifs that promote monistic pantheism and unity. This is why the chief instigators to the globalist League of Nations and the United Nations have been Theosophists, trying to work out the plan. This is why the verbiage and aims at the U.N. is for world peace and brotherhood. It is a spiritual undertaking in a secular world. Lucis Trust has had three think-tanks located at the U.N. Plaza in New York for around fifty years. No wonder the former Assistant Secretary General to the U.N., Robert Muller, is a devoted disciple of Alice Bailey, whose book, A Treatise on White Magic, forms the basis for the Robert Muller schools. (The Leavening)

These people are called the torchbearers or lightbearers of the New World Order. A spiritual plan that has been traced to the time of Nimrod and the Tower of Babel, up through to the Illuminati and onwards. "A loosely-knit world conspiracy," David Allen Lewis writes, "a so called Network of Illuminists." "Whether the Illuminati has one special organization that is its orginal descendant... we can be very sure that its philosophical torchbearers are represented by literally hundreds of organizations and individuals in many diverse realms." (Dark Angels of Light)

A Blueprint For Destiny

Robert Heironomus says that "America's Great Seal may be seen as a blueprint for the elevation of consciousness. It says, in part, that we must transform ourselves before we can change the world, and that it is during the process of self-transformation that we can catch a glimpse of what part we are to play in national and global transformation."

The mandala of the New World Order and Illuminati control. "Annuit Coeptis—He has Blessed our Beginning", "Novus Ordo Seclorum—New Order of the Ages". The All-Seeing Eye of Horus, the resurrected Egyptian Sun God, biblically refered to as Lucifer, the angel of light.

In occult doctrine it is thought that "from the union of spirit and matter (the pyramid is made of stone, rock, and earth—and represents the unconscious. The capstone is made of an immaterial substance—light or spirit—and is conscious), a new being—a transformed being—is created. The seal's reverse depicts a separation state in the separation of the eye the triangle."

"The pyramid exemplifies the initiation stage... it is the house of initiation, in which the candidate confronts the world of darkness and enters the world of spirit. By passing the tests of the elements, the candidate is initiated into the realm of higher consciousness." (Heironimus ibid., p.92) After succesfully completing the initiation process, the candidate is reborn, and joins the single eye in the pyramid.

The New World Order, or rather the philosophy its deliverers hold to be true, is one and the same as the New Age ideal of man's divinity and self-transformation. In order to partake in this gnostic fufillment of "The Great Plan" one must awaken to the original sin of Lucifer, as proposed to Eve in the Garden of Eden, that "we can be as Gods." (Genesis 3:5) So it is not suprising to find that Christians, specifically, are cited as the main obstacle hindering the success of this New Age-New World Order.

The reason for this is the New Age belief in many "saviors" and "enlightened teachers", masters and gurus — its all good and fine when the goal is the false teaching of man's divinity. The New Agers see many ways to salvation; Christians proclaim that there is only one Way - Jesus Christ. "For the gate is small, and narrow that leads to life, and few are those who find it." (Matthew 7:14) The Bible states that this is in reality the "broad way that leads to destruction, and many are those who enter it." (Matthew 7:13) Therefore, the only religion not compatible with The New Age, and hence the coming New World Order, is the belief and strict adherence in the Word of God – with traditional Christianity being looked upon as particularly pernicious.

In Dark Secrets of the New Age, Texe Marrs wrote:

"The New Age is a universal open-arms religion that excludes from its ranks only those who believe in Jesus Christ and a Personal God. Buddhists, Shintoist, Satanists, Secular Humanists, witches, witch doctors and shamans — All who reject Christianity are invited to become trusted members of the New Age family. Worshippers of separate faiths and denominations are to be unified in a common purpose: THE GLORIFICATION OF MAN."

The Guardians of the Mysteries

Freemasonry, by its own accord, practices the ancient mysteries of Egypt, and has as a primary goal, the re-instatement of this mystery religion for the coming World Order.

"The magical mystery religion of Ancient Egypt exercised a great fascination over Renaissance man, which was incorporated into—the newly formed—Lodges at that time. The mysterious heiroglyphs were considered to be symbols of hidden knowledge. Symbols and gestures became a means of conveying secrets and "truths". The cosmos was seen as an organic unity. It was peopled by a hierarchy of spirits which exercised all kinds of influences and sympathies. The practice of magic became a holy quest." (Michael Rogge, "New Age Spirituality, The roots of the New Age Movement", Part I)

Back in 1927, Freemason W.L. Wilmhurst saw the dawning of the Aquarian Age as the fufillment of the "Plan". In "The Meaning of Masonry", p.4, he writes:

"In this new Aquarian age, when many individuals and groups are working in various ways for the eventual restoration of the mysteries, an increasing number of aspirants are beginning to recognize that Freemasonry may well be the vehicle for this achievement."

He would be well proud, I'm sure, of today's mainstream acceptance of those very same occult mysteries. Another passage on page 46-47, proves the teaching of Freemasonry is the same as New Age beliefs:

"He begins his Masonic career as the natural man; he ends it by becoming through its discipline, a regenerated man... This the evolution of man into superman—was always the purpose of the ancient Mysteries, and the real purpose of modern Masonry is, not the social and charitable purposes to which so much attention is paid, but the expediting of the spiritual evolution of those who aspire to perfect their own nature and transform it into a more god-like quality."

"Freemasonry, through its mysteries, will soon usher in a New World Religion for the New World Order. A modern day Tower of Babel and the ultimate unification of the world's religions. The New Age welcomes these goals and looks to the "light" of Masonry as its esoteric basis for occult initiation into the New World Order."

Benjamin Creme writes:

"The New Religion will manifest, for instance, through organizations like Masonry. In Freemasonry is embedded the core or the secret heart of the occult mysteries, wrapped up on number, metaphor and symbol..." ("The Reappearance of the Christ and the Masters of Wisdom", p.87)

Freemason and co-founder of Lucifer Publishing Company (now called Lucis Trust), Foster Bailey, 33rd degree Freemason and wife of Alice Bailey, concured:

"Is it not possible from a contemplation of this side of Masonic teaching that it may provide all that is necessary for the formulation of a universal religion?" ("The Spirit of Masonry", p.113)

Foster Bailey states that Masonry "is the descendant of, or is founded upon, a divinely imparted religion..." This religion he explains, "...was the first United World Religion. Then came the era of separation of many religions and sectarianism. Today we are working again towards a World Universal Religion." (ibid p.31)

To biblical students these are shocking admissions and it adds fuel to the charge of a Masonic Antichrist in our midst. "It is these Mysteries which Christ will restore upon His reapearance," Alice Bailey reveals, "thus reviving the churches in a new form, and restoring the hidden Mystery." ("The Reappearance of the Christ", p. 122)

Bailey was giving these "revelations" by her channeled Master Djwhal Khul — a disembodied "Ascended Master". Her "Christ" is indeed the Antichrist in the strictest sense of the word. Antichrist means substitute for or in place of Christ. She goes on to say:

"These ancient Mysteries were originally given to humanity by the Hierarchy [of which Djwhal Khul is a part of] and contain the entire clue to the evolutionary process, hidden in numbers, in ritual, in words and in symbology; these veil the secret of man's origin and destiny, picturing to him in rite and ritual, the long, long path which he must tread, back into the light." (ibid, p.121-22)

So what do we have here?

* The New Age tells its disciples that they are working for the Hierarchy.

* The teachings of the New Age are giving by the Hierarchy.

* The movement for the installement of the Antichrist is giving the go-ahead by the Hierarchy

* Djwhal Khul's number one message for New Age disciples is "prepare men for the reappearance of the Christ. This is your first duty." (The Externalization of the Hierarchy, p.614)

* The Ancient Mysteries, being practiced by both Freemasonry and the New Age, were giving to humanity by the Hierarchy.

* The real purpose of Masonry — taught to man, from the Hierarchy — is the expediting of the spiritual evolution, to transform their nature into a god-like superman.

* The Serpent caused the Fall in the Garden of Eden by giving Eve this very same message.

"Man is a god in the making. And as the mystic myths of Egypt, on the potter's wheel, he is being molded. When his light shines out to lift and preserve all things, he receives the triple crown of godhood." (Manly P. Hall, The Lost Keys of Freemasonry, p.92)

"European mysticism was not dead at the time the United States of America was founded. The hand of the mysteries controlled in the establishment of the new government for the signature of the mysteries may still be seen on the Great Seal of the United states of America. Careful analysis of the seal discloses a mass of occult and masonic symbols chief among them, the so-called American Eagle. ... the American eagle upon the Great Seal is but a conventionalised phoenix...

"Not only were many of the founders of the United States government Masons, but they received aid from a secret and august body existing in Europe which helped them to establish this country for A PECULIAR AND PARTICULAR PURPOSE known only to the intiated few." (Manly P. Hall, The Secret Teachings of All Ages, pp.40-41)

that was a very interesting article that makes really good sense.
here is why:

even without my special "they live" sunglasses I noticed that many are trying to destroy Christianity.
I mean, why put soooooo much effort in a "dying religion" as many proclaim, when true nemesis is what I like to call ‘Black Science’ that is destroying more lives than all religions together?!
And by 'Black Science' I mean the conditioning of the populace to accept
Scientific Facts" as the word of God, not to mention nefarious use of such science. For those who are still working at I486 speeds I will say this:
Modern day Science = Religion #1!

From genocide via vaccinations, deadly poisons that are put in foods. water and air -- Science has killed, dumbed down, maimed and destroyed more life on earth in one century than all religions in last 2000 years.
Not to mention scientifically designed DU weapons, nukes, ELF, HAARP and conventional killing power.
So, why is our main nemesis the religion, and that is primarily Christianity for Westerners?

at least that is what is pushed on people day after day.
yes, organized religion sux, but why other things are not shoved on populace, things like wars, use of science to kill or maim or dumb down?

the only logical conclusion is for whatever reason Christianity is the obstacle to NWO plans and if you do not believe that -- just look at propaganda and conditioning behind it.
For example, "left behind" series is portraying Christians as the last bastion of resistance towards NWO takeover.
but, the guy who wrote the book is not a Christian, he is an illumi cunt
pretending to be a Christian. Same for G.W.B.

conveniently, all of those Christians who watch ‘the left behind’ movies or read the books of same sort will have their beliefs reinforced beyond reason, that is, that they will be persecuted and they will end up in concentration camps. Looks like predictive programming to me.

yes, meanwhile Masonic-created sects of ‘everything goes’ New Agers will proclaim "oneness" thing it the only answer.

now, let me tell you why ‘oneness’ is bad.
‘oneness’ would not be bad at all if we all were nice, honest, peace loving people who like Freeman would allow synchronicity to feed our belly and take care of basic needs.
I would love that. hey, where do I sign up?
but, with evil controllers still in the power – ‘oneness’ will be used against us
kind of like luring all sheep in a sheeppen and then do something nefarious to the sheep.
with ‘oneness’, the way controllers envision it -- we all would be the same kind of totally brainless sheep, all while thinking "we are way cool".
that is why we must preserve our individuality, our beliefs (no matter what they are) and as long as some of us disagree and we retain our own individuality -- we, the humanity will survive.
don’t believe me?
well, start with you then – would you like to agree with what everyone who posts here?
don’t you love to be different, to have your own mind, your own point of view?
If creative force made you that way – an individual – why would you accept illumi idea to become “one” just like the rest?
imagine the world if there was nothing to talk about because we all had the same perspectives?
yikes!

"for legs better than two"
baaaa


historically, it was always that through individuality humans had survived, especially when odds were against them.
you know, that one “different” human who did not take advice/order/suggestion and did his on thing, therefore he saved his ass, and/or his family.
like the guy who did not listen to clueless 9/11 emergency worker who told him to wait, instead he ran for the exit listening to his instinct therefore he is still alive


rest assured, if we have ‘oneness’ implemented -- we will be like a giant ship with no safety compartments, one hole in the ship's belly will sink us all.

with all due respect – I do not like to be like anyone else, but I want to stay as an independently thinking human, with his own feelings, his own view of the world, otherwise I will be just a mass produced operating system that would be easily controlled. and, that is the idea -- reduce humans to a very few archetypes and then control them easily

to be a human is to be an individual, to think independently, to love or hate, to like or dislike, to perceive the world in a manner that can only come from having the free will. So, why would you want to give away your free will ?

putting all humans in the same basket and making them think, feel and express the same feelings would be robotic, not to mention that this is what must transpire if NWO is to take over the world.

that is why I appreciate Christians, Hindus, Jews, Moslems and all other religious people.
Their religions, customs and views are simply amazing, not to mention what can you learn from them when you have a nice conversation.
What you can learn is enormous – that is how similar we are.
And you can learn about your self a lot, how little you understand religions, customs and people.

So, I’d say as long as those religious people are not buying this Illuminati shit – we are safe.
To put it another way – once all religions buy Masonic New Age crap – we are fucked.

please explain to me why are some of you people afraid of Christians sooo much?
why aren’t you afraid of HAARP, chemtrails and other weapons of mass destruction that can fuck with your minds, that can make you sick or give you diseases?
Why Christians? Why are Westerners so shiftlessly afraid of Bible Believers?
that is mystery to me, so please help me here.
I begin to think it is trauma induced by snapping out of being a programmed religious follower.
Since I was not born on the West -- I cannot understand this.
No other people are afraid of Christianity as Westerners.
I hope someone can shed the light on this.
I would be very thankful if someone explained this to me.

[john white]

Yes there are contradictions in the Bible but remember it has been translated over and over again and is a very old book. What most Christians find is that their own experiences verify what it talks about. The main point is that man is not god, only occultists believe this. One of the most famous proponents of this idea was Nietzsche and his concept of the superman in books like 'Thus Spake Zarathustra' which I actually have a copy of.

Ah, so when it suits you, you recognise the bible as unreliable: but when it does'nt suit you, you do not!

NEW AGE OCCULTIST!

PICK AND CHOOSE CULTIST!

(LOL)

[john white]

please explain to me why are some of you people afraid of Christians sooo much?

Its not fear, its pity: pity to see someone partially free but unaware they are still stuck

why aren’t you afraid of HAARP, chemtrails and other weapons of mass destruction that can fuck with your minds, that can make you sick or give you diseases?


Why are you afraid of them? What does your fear acheive, other than to weaken you?

now, let me tell you why ‘oneness’ is bad.
‘oneness’ would not be bad at all if we all were nice, honest, peace loving people who like Freeman would allow synchronicity to feed our belly and take care of basic needs.
I would love that. hey, where do I sign up?
but, with evil controllers still in the power – ‘oneness’ will be used against us
kind of like luring all sheep in a sheeppen and then do something nefarious to the sheep.
with ‘oneness’, the way controllers envision it -- we all would be the same kind of totally brainless sheep, all while thinking "we are way cool".


This is some familiar ground

The controls want to create a unity of robots: the unity of conformity

But this, like all their other distortions, is a lie

The true Oneness is unity in diversity, and it is divine, and 100% what the creator has always manifestly intended for us

[baron von lotsov]

John

When will you ever realise the error of your ways? You are defending the indefensible despite the mountains of proof a few of us have produced. You are like the Illuminati spokesperson number one around here. I often wonder about you and who you really are and how you became what you are now. You give very little information about yourself although you are a prolific poster in all other respects but you only post on threads to counter Christian opposition to the occult. I have very rarely seen you post on anything else. If there is indeed any other topic you have posted on then remind me because offhand I can't think of a single one.

[john white]

John

When will you ever realise the error of your ways? You are defending the indefensible despite the mountains of proof a few of us have produced. You are like the Illuminati spokesperson number one around here. I often wonder about you and who you really are and how you became what you are now. You give very little information about yourself although you are a prolific poster in all other respects but you only post on threads to counter Christian opposition to the occult. I have very rarely seen you post on anything else. If there is indeed any other topic you have posted on then remind me because offhand I can't think of a single one.

Baron I don't care what your paranoid mind concocts about me, or what your blinkered vision lets you see. I post what I like where I like in the spirit of helpfullness

As for "who I am", I'm pretty much the most open person going on any of these forums. I post with my real name and give real opinions based on real experiances and with real facts. Clearly you also arnt aware that I've just made a film of a recent talk I gave open for all to see, and have personally met many people from the various forums

Have you?

Who are YOU?: for you are certainly NOT the spirit of openness

Ah, so when it suits you, you recognise the bible as unreliable: but when it does'nt suit you, you do not!

NEW AGE OCCULTIST!

PICK AND CHOOSE CULTIST!

(LOL)

You don't like this? Well I can't blame you, its written to sting at least a little, like cold water to wake you from a recurring dream

Its not my fault its true:

And its not my fault if, at least on some levels, that makes you thoroughly inconsistant, if not potentially a hypocrite

[baron von lotsov]

So you have never posted anything to expose the NWO apart from your insults and ramblings about Christianity? I thought as much.

[kasalt]

When will you ever realize the error of your ways? You are defending the indefensible despite the mountains of proof a few of us have produced.

Please link me to this "mountain of proof" you have produced. My apologies, but I've only been a regular member here for less than a month, so it must have slipped by me unbeknownst.

I know that there are some well-meaning Christians out there who are to some degree aware of what we have come to call the "matrix". Some of them are active on this forum. They are doing the best they can with the level of awareness they achieved. However, it has become quite obvious to others of us that Christianity itself is also a significant part of this matrix, and that's what we are trying to help these good souls realize. I am prepared to prove this point, and I can do it simply by quoting from the Bible itself, but I would like to wait until I have seen the "mountains of proof" you have produced before I will do so.

[john white]

So you have never posted anything to expose the NWO apart from your insults and ramblings about Christianity? I thought as much.

Site's got a search function Baron, go find out. don't forget the 8000 posts at harris's, the 3000 posts at illusions 1 and 2, the 2000 posts at nineleven.co.uk (Raging clue: not about Christianity!), the 750 posts at Malvern Messages (again, not a peep about christianity!) the posts at NO2ID (that didnt get deleted by your agenda protecting pals) and so on.

Yeah, I only post about christianity! LOL

"Arghh that john White is a scary person working for them who wants my Soul!"

Please!

I know your especially frightened at the moment, but try and find some backbone Lotsov

Ah, so when it suits you, you recognise the bible as unreliable: but when it does'nt suit you, you do not!

NEW AGE OCCULTIST!

PICK AND CHOOSE CULTIST!

(LOL)

Again, run from truth if you like Baron, its all I expect from you as its all you've ever shown on anything that isnt a five-sense issue, but its not my fault it's True!

And fearing me doesnt help you with that: why don't you break your programming and get with the facts?

[baron von lotsov]

Over 6000 posts by me for starters. I know some might be viewed as a little irate but some people have very thick skulls on here.

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/search.php?searchid=108573

http://illusionsforum.jconserv.net/search.php?search_author=Baron+von+Lotsov

http://www.davidickeforum.com/forum/search.php?search_author=Baron+von+Lotsov

[john white]

And BTW Baron, if anyone is a NWO serving fake round here, It is YOU, with you cosying up to Knights of Malta, your obsequious fawning over anything with blue blood in it, and your total ignorance of Icke being as you have never read a single word! (Your own admission not more than four months ago: despite posting on Icke forums since August 05!)

But that’s cool, I don't mind, and certainly don't fear you for it

It’s just an ongoing cosmic joke with your pompously trying to tell us what's what when your don't know your arse from your elbow even with an easy to follow diagram

[john white]

Over 6000 posts by me for starters. I know some might be viewed as a little irate but some people have very thick skulls on here.

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/search.php?searchid=108573

http://illusionsforum.jconserv.net/search.php?search_author=Baron+von+Lotsov

http://www.davidickeforum.com/forum/search.php?search_author=Baron+von+Lotsov

Baron, I don't give a rats arse, its only an issue in YOUR mind

[john white]

Please link me to this "mountain of proof" you have produced. My apologies, but I've only been a regular member here for less than a month, so it must have slipped by me unbeknownst.

I know that there are some well-meaning Christians out there who are to some degree aware of what we have come to call the "matrix". Some of them are active on this forum. They are doing the best they can with the level of awareness they achieved. However, it has become quite obvious to others of us that Christianity itself is also a significant part of this matrix, and that's what we are trying to help these good souls realize. I am prepared to prove this point, and I can do it simply by quoting from the Bible itself, but I would like to wait until I have seen the "mountains of proof" you have produced before I will do so.

It seems to me that the majority of "Christians" attracted to conspiracy Forums are, regetably, the paranoid-certainity-covering-their-inner-complete-insecurity types, baring a few notable exceptions: Biggus Diccus here, Beardo at Illusions and so on: those guys are a pleasure, becuase they are fellow warriors of the heart, usually not griped by a lust for Armeggedon so Big Daddy in the sky can tell them they are good boys

For real conversations with real christians who are really living the message of the Christ, I tend to go to theology forums. I've had the most wonderful heartening conversations with priests, who have no ego problems accepting that the New Testament has been massively altered over time but have faith anyway becuase they actually know God, not Dogma!

[baron von lotsov]

"paranoid-certainity-covering-their-inner-complete-insecurity types"

Do they know they are this?

What do you think they are scared of?

[john white]

"paranoid-certainity-covering-their-inner-complete-insecurity types"

Do they know they are this?

What do you think they are scared of?

Well Baron, I go on the evidence of their posting, and their own shadow :)

[kasalt]

Yes there are contradictions in the Bible but remember it has been translated over and over again and is a very old book.

Translation and age are certainly two good excuses for the many blatant contradictions contained in the Bible, but there is also another possibility for the contradictions contained in it, and that is that it presents a history of events that is at least partially fraudulent. (More on that later.)

We have all come across brazen liars at some point in our lives, and one reason why they become so easy to spot is that they eventually trip themselves up by telling lies that contradict one another. Such is the very nature of lying! Here are a few examples of blatant contradictions that cannot possibly be explained away as "errors of translation":

Who says we are gods?

The serpent says we are gods:
And the serpent said unto the woman...ye shall be as gods... (Genesis 3:4-5)

Jehovah says we are gods:
I have said, Ye are gods... (Psalm 82:6)
and,
Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? (John 10:34)

Who is prowling around like a lion looking for someone to devour?

The devil:
Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour. (I Peter 5:8)

Jehovah:
I will be like a lion to Ephraim, like a great lion to Judah. I will tear them to pieces and go away; I will carry them off, with no one to rescue them. (Hosea 5:14)

Who shoots "flaming arrows" at us?

The "evil one" shoots flaming arrows at us:
In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. (Ephesians 6:16)

Jehovah shoots flaiming arrows at us:
He has prepared his deadly weapons; he makes ready his flaming arrows... "I will heap calamities upon them and spend my arrows against them." (Psalm 7:13; Deuteronomy 32:23)

Who is the dragon?

Satan is the dragon:
He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. (Revelation 20:2)

God is the dragon:
I called upon the LORD, and cried unto my God: he heard my voice out of his temple, and my cry came before him, even into his ears. Smoke rose from his nostrils; consuming fire came from his mouth, burning coals blazed out of it. He parted the heavens and came down; dark clouds were under his feet. He mounted the cherubim and flew; he soared on the wings of the wind. He made darkness his covering, his canopy around him— the dark rain clouds of the sky. Out of the brightness of his presence clouds advanced, with hailstones and bolts of lightning. The LORD thundered from heaven; the voice of the Most High resounded. He shot his arrows and scattered the enemies, great bolts of lightning and routed them. The valleys of the sea were exposed and the foundations of the earth laid bare at your rebuke, O LORD, at the blast of breath from your nostrils. (Psalm 18:8-15)

[baron von lotsov]

Blar blar the Bible is a fraud...

Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna, Hare Hare
Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare


Are you a Hare Krishna by any chance?

[titurel]

I have already posted this on the third page of this thread, but I see it got overlooked, so I will repeat it and this time I will address it specifically to titurel and request a reply:




If the "original sin of Lucifer" is that "we can be as gods", then how do you explain the following:

Psalm 82:6
I have said, Ye are gods...

John 10:33-34
The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
"For it was Jesus himself who said 'ye are all gods' "

This is a quote from John 10:34, which says:

"Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?" (KJV)

Jesus was quoting Psalm 82:6, which reads:
"I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High." (KJV)

The expresion "Ye are gods", in this context, is often misunderstood. The expression is not the same claim the Serpent spoke to Eve at Genesis 3:5. In Psalm 82:6 God is not addressing humans but the angels who are members of the Divne Council. He called them "gods" because he had invested them with responsibility of presiding over the nations:

"When the Most High gave the nations their inheritance, when he divided all mankind, he set up boundaries for the peoples according to the number of the sons of God." - Deuteronomy 32:8

God wasn't serious in calling these angels "gods" either. He was mocking them with irony because in the previous verses he had just been bitterly berating them for showing partiality to the wicked and for judging unjustly:

"God has taken his place in the divine council; in the midst of the gods he holds judgment: 'How long will you judge unjustly and show partiality to the wicked? [Selah] Give justice to the weak and the fatherless; maintain the right of the afflicted and the destitute. Rescue the weak and the needy; deliver them from the hand of the wicked.' They have neither knowledge nor understanding, they walk about in darkness; all the foundations of the earth are shaken. I say, 'You are gods, sons of the Most High, all of you; nevertheless, you shall die like men, and fall like any prince.' Arise, O God, judge the earth; for to thee belong all the nations!" - Psalm 82

In other words, in John 10:34, Jesus was accusing the Jews of judging him unjustly... just as the judges of the nations were judging unjustly, whom God mockingly called "gods".

Psalm 82:6 says: "I said, 'You are "gods"; you are all sons of the Most High.' "

But the next verse says: "But you will die like mere men; you will fall like every other ruler." - Psalm 82:7

Context is the key here. Jesus was liking the Jews, who were assailing him with false accusations, with the 'sons of the Most High', in Psalm 82 whom God said would "fall like every other ruler".

[kasalt]

Are you a Hare Krishna by any chance?



No but I do chant Hare Krishna from time to time.

Don't bother telling me about the problems of ISKON, I know all about it. I am not a member but I admire many of their beliefs, such as chanting the Maha Mantra and practicing vegetarianism.

[tinmenace]

We're caught in the middle of a war that is taking place in higher dimensions. Mankind isn't able to defeat an enemy that is other dimensional on his own.

Good Morning Titurel :) How do you know that mankind is not able to defeat something on a different dimension? Is it your belief that there is not many dimensions? Or, is it that mankind is weak? Is it not your belief that God is on another dimension? There are other dimensions, higher and lower, and entities on the lower dimensions are no match to consciousness and quantum thinking of our kind. What we need to do to win this thing, is to get the consciousness of everyone raised and united, because consciousness is the most powerful thing there is. Truth!

The God I follow wants us to be freed from submission to the Reptilains. You're idea that God wants us to be suffering slaves, in submission to him, and doing his bidding, is unfounded, IMO.

So you do believe in reptilians then? Did the bible teach you this? Or, is this something that further research has helped you to establish?

[kasalt]

Psalm 82:6 says: "I said, 'You are "gods"; you are all sons of the Most High.' "

But the next verse says: "But you will die like mere men; you will fall like every other ruler." - Psalm 82:7

Context is the key here. Jesus was liking the Jews, who were assailing him with false accusations, with the 'sons of the Most High', in Psalm 82 whom God said would "fall like every other ruler".

If context is key, titurel, then why don't you quote the passage from John in context?

John 10:30-36

30 I and my Father are one.

31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.

32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?

33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

There was no sarcasm intended as you suggest. Jesus clearly meant what he said.

[titurel]

Who says we are gods?

The serpent says we are gods:
And the serpent said unto the woman...ye shall be as gods... (Genesis 3:4-5)

Jehovah says we are gods:
I have said, Ye are gods... (Psalm 82:6)
and,
Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? (John 10:34)
See the post above that illustrates that God was mocking when he said, "Ye are gods"...

Who is prowling around like a lion looking for someone to devour?

The devil:
Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour. (I Peter 5:8)

Jehovah:
I will be like a lion to Ephraim, like a great lion to Judah. I will tear them to pieces and go away; I will carry them off, with no one to rescue them. (Hosea 5:14)
This is simple to explain. Use of the lion is a metaphor and the meaning of the metaphor depends on the context. Above, you have quoted two different unrelated references to the lion. In the first instance, it refers to the Devil and in the second, it's referring to God. A lion has the attributes of strength. Both God and the Devil are strong but God is stronger. It's a simple analogy. I could call a hero a lion and people would not automatically associate the lion with the devil. It depends on context and the context of the above passages you quoted are self evident!!!

Who shoots "flaming arrows" at us?

The "evil one" shoots flaming arrows at us:
In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. (Ephesians 6:16)

Jehovah shoots flaiming arrows at us:
He has prepared his deadly weapons; he makes ready his flaming arrows... "I will heap calamities upon them and spend my arrows against them." (Psalm 7:13; Deuteronomy 32:23)
In the above passages, we have a similar scenario to the situation above. I could say you are shooting arrows, kasalt but it doesn't automatically follow that I'm accusing you of being God or the Devil, kasalt. Do you see the point?

Who is the dragon?

Satan is the dragon:
He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. (Revelation 20:2)

God is the dragon:
I called upon the LORD, and cried unto my God: he heard my voice out of his temple, and my cry came before him, even into his ears. Smoke rose from his nostrils; consuming fire came from his mouth, burning coals blazed out of it. He parted the heavens and came down; dark clouds were under his feet. He mounted the cherubim and flew; he soared on the wings of the wind. He made darkness his covering, his canopy around him— the dark rain clouds of the sky. Out of the brightness of his presence clouds advanced, with hailstones and bolts of lightning. The LORD thundered from heaven; the voice of the Most High resounded. He shot his arrows and scattered the enemies, great bolts of lightning and routed them. The valleys of the sea were exposed and the foundations of the earth laid bare at your rebuke, O LORD, at the blast of breath from your nostrils. (Psalm 18:8-15)
Psalm 18 does not say God is a Dragon! Once again, I could describe you, kasalt, as breathing smoke from your nostrils at the idea that some have different opinions to yourself, but it's just metaphor. Likewise, I could describe smoke coming out of the nostrils of a good hero who was angry with the rapist. It's just a metaphor!

[titurel]

How do you know that mankind is not able to defeat something on a different dimension? ...

What we need to do to win this thing, is to get the consciousness of everyone raised and united, because consciousness is the most powerful thing there is. Truth!
But the vast majority of people are not waking up. The elite are increasing in strength and power. How are you going to wake everyone up? Also, you have to factor in that most people do not want to wake up. The elite for example, are Satanists. How are you going to fight them because they are not going to suddenly give you a hug...

So you do believe in reptilians then? Did the bible teach you this? Or, is this something that further research has helped you to establish?
If there were only a handful of eye witnesses with conflicting accounts, like you, I would doubt the veracity, but the accounts come from all round the world, from all walks of life, and from people who don't know each other. Many people have had experiences without even having previously heard of the phenomenon. The fact there are so many of these accounts and the fact that ancient texts from all round the world speak of a time when beings from another dimension came to our planet, and the fact that the generational inter-related elite bloodlines all have associations with secretive societies that revere reptiles, the case is far from closed!

[tinmenace]

This is simple to explain. Use of the lion is a metaphor and the meaning of the metaphor depends on the context. Above, you have quoted two different unrelated references to the lion. In the first instance, it refers to the Devil and in the second, it's referring to God. A lion has the attributes of strength. Both God and the Devil are strong but God is stronger. It's a simple analogy. I could call a hero a lion and people would not automatically associate the lion with the devil. It depends on context and the context of the above passages you quoted are self evident!!!

So basically the bible is subject to interpretation and cannot be taken literally.

[kasalt]

Originally Posted by kasalt
Blar blar the Bible is a fraud...

Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna, Hare Hare
Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare


Are you a Hare Krishna by any chance?

Don't try to sidestep baron. I gave you a substantive post and I would like substance in return from you if you please.

[titurel]

If context is key, titurel, then why don't you quote the passage from John in context?

John 10:30-36

30 I and my Father are one.

31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.

32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?

33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

There was no sarcasm intended as you suggest. Jesus clearly meant what he said.
Jesus was quoting from Psalm and God's mocking of the fallen gods. Psalm is the basis for the line that Jesus was using against the religious leaders. There was sarcasm in Psalm and there is also sarcasm in Jesus' words. Note that Jesus said, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

Jesus was referring to their law and not the law of the OT because no where in the NT does it say that we are gods.

[titurel]

So basically the bible is subject to interpretation and cannot be taken literally.
You have to look at context and make up your own mind.

[kasalt]

Psalm 18 does not say God is a Dragon! Once again, I could describe you, kasalt, as breathing smoke from your nostrils at the idea that some have different opinions to yourself, but it's just metaphor. Likewise, I could describe smoke coming out of the nostrils of a good hero who was angry with the rapist. It's just a metaphor!

Allow me to draw the bottom line for you, titurel. I had hoped you would be keen enough to see it for yourself, what with all the examples I gave you....:rolleyes:

The idea that Satan and God are two separate beings is a biblical illusion presented to the masses, while the elite of Christianity and of this world are secretly initiated into the satanic doctrine that God and Satan are "alter egos" of one being. This is why we find evidence of Satanism being practiced in high places, both in Christian Churches and in secular society.

But in reality, it is not such a great secret after all. The Bible itself spills the beans:

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil:
I the LORD do all these things. (Isaiah 45:7)

[titurel]

The idea that Satan and God are two separate beings is an illusion presented to the masses, while the elite of Christianity and of this world are secretly initiated into the satanic doctrine that God and Satan are "alter egos" of one being. This is why we find evidence of Satanism being practiced in high places, both in Christian Churches and in secular society.
Yes and the Bible exposes what you wrote above! I disagree that Satan and God are the same. Freeemason Albert Pike interestingly believed the same thing as you!

But in reality, it is not such a great secret after all. The Bible itself spills the beans:

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. (Isaiah 45:7)
Isaiah 45:7 and Amos 3:6 (http://www.carm.org/diff/Isa_45_7.htm)
(Isaiah 45:7, KJV) - "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things."

(Amos 3:6) - "Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?"
Is God really the one who created evil? To answer the question we must first look at how the word for evil "rah" is used in the Bible, examine the context of the Isaiah 45:7 passage, and look at other passages on the same subject.

First of all, the Hebrew word for evil "rah" is used in many different ways in the Bible. In the KJV Bible, it occurs 663 times. 431 times it is translated as "evil." The other 232 times it is translated as "wicked", "bad", "hurt", "harm", "ill", "sorrow", "mischief", "displeased", "adversity", "affliction", "trouble", "calamity", "grievous", "misery", and "trouble." So we can see that the word does not require that it be translated as "evil." This is why different Bibles translate this verse differently. It is translated as "calamity" by the NASB and NKJV; "disaster" by the NIV; and "woe" by the RSV.

Second, the context of the verse is speaking of natural phenomena.
"I am the Lord, and there is no other; Besides Me there is no God. I will gird you, though you have not known Me; That men may know from the rising to the setting of the sun That there is no one besides Me. I am the Lord, and there is no other, The One forming light and creating darkness, Causing well-being and creating calamity; I am the Lord who does all these." (Isaiah 45:5-7).

Notice that the context of the verse is dealing with who God is, that it is God who speaks of natural phenomena (sun, light, dark), and it is God who is able to cause "well-being" as well as "calamity." Contextually, this verse is dealing with natural disasters, and human comfort issues. It is not speaking of moral evil; rather, it is dealing with calamity, distress, etc. This is consistent with other scriptures. For example:

"And the Lord said to him, "Who has made man’s mouth? Or who makes him dumb or deaf, or seeing or blind? Is it not I, the Lord?" (Exodus 4:11).
"Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?" (Amos 3:6).
From the above two verses we can see that the Lord is involved in calamity and problems in the earthly realm. Exodus 4:11 is speaking of human frailty and Amos 3:6 is speaking of woes in a city. It is not a moral evil that God brings, but calamity.

Third, there are other verses that clearly show that God is pure and that He cannot approve of evil.

"The Rock! His work is perfect, For all His ways are just; a God of faithfulness and without injustice, righteous and upright is He." (Deut. 32:4).

"Thine eyes are too pure to approve evil, and Thou canst not look on wickedness with favor." (Hab. 1:13).

We can see that the Bible teaches that God is pure and does not approve of evil, that the word "rah" (evil) in Hebrew can mean many things, and that contextually, the verse is speaking calamity and distress. Therefore, God does not create evil in the moral sense, but in the sense of disaster, of calamity.

[tinmenace]

I don't believe that the Annunaki God created humanity, so your presumption is flawed, but you can believe what you like!


This is the dogma I was talking about BD. Despite actual evidence of alien intervention, people still reject this information in favor of a book whose authors are unknown and writings are open to interpretation depending on how you read it.

It is the power of this spell that is our biggest obstacle in winning this 'war'.

Consciousness collapses the wave function, which is what this spell is built on.

Deny people ascension of consciousness, and you have your agenda safely in place along with a compliant and obedient slave.

[titurel]

This is the dogma I was talking about BD. Despite actual evidence of alien intervention, people still reject this information in favor of a book whose authors are unknown and writings are open to interpretation depending on how you read it.
The 'alien invasion' were the fallen divine beings that produced the Nephilim, and I don't just rely on the Bible but a myriad of books to back up that there is a Satanic conspiracy.

It is the power of this spell that is our biggest obstacle in winning this 'war'.

Consciousness collapses the wave function, which is what this spell is built on.
Well share you beliefs instead of negatively trying to destroy others beliefs. So what do you believe in? And how will that defeat the alien invasion?

Deny people ascension of consciousness, and you have your agenda safely in place along with a compliant and obedient slave.
The Bible does not deny anyone the ascension of consciousness. In fact, it encourages and promotes it.

[baron von lotsov]

No but I do chant Hare Krishna from time to time.

Don't bother telling me about the problems of ISKON, I know all about it. I am not a member but I admire many of their beliefs, such as chanting the Maha Mantra and practicing vegetarianism.

Why do you practice vegetarianism and more generally what do you get out of being a Hare Krishna? You think the Bible is a fraud but I'm curious about why you choose this instead of it. Have you ever been a Christian yourself?

[kasalt]

I am in awe of your ability to dance with logic, titurel. Perhaps you can explain these biblical contradictions for me:

Who was Joseph's father?

Matthew 1:16 - "And Jacob [was the father of] Joseph."

vs.

Luke 3:23 - "Joseph...was the son of Heli."


Did Michal have children?

II Samuel 6:23 - "Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no child unto the day of her death."

vs.

II Samuel 21:8 - "But the king took...the five sons of Michal the daughter of Saul..."


Are we punished for our parents' sins?

Exodus 20:5 "For I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation." (Repeated in Deuteronomy 5:9)

Exodus 34:6-7 " . . . The Lord God, merciful and gracious, . . . that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation."

vs.

Ezekiel 18:20 "The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father."

Deuteronomy 24:16 "The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin."


Who was Joseph's father?

Matthew 1:16 - "And Jacob [was the father of] Joseph."

vs.

Luke 3:23 - "Joseph...was the son of Heli."


Did Michal have children?

II Samuel 6:23 - "Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no child unto the day of her death."

vs.

II Samuel 21:8 - "But the king took...the five sons of Michal the daughter of Saul..."


Are we punished for our parents' sins?

Exodus 20:5 "For I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation." (Repeated in Deuteronomy 5:9)

Exodus 34:6-7 " . . . The Lord God, merciful and gracious, . . . that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation."

vs.

Ezekiel 18:20 "The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father."

Deuteronomy 24:16 "The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin."

[baron von lotsov]

Yes and the Bible exposes what you wrote above! I disagree that Satan and God are the same. Freeemason Albert Pike interestingly believed the same thing as you!


Isaiah 45:7 and Amos 3:6 (http://www.carm.org/diff/Isa_45_7.htm)
(Isaiah 45:7, KJV) - "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things."

(Amos 3:6) - "Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?"
Is God really the one who created evil? To answer the question we must first look at how the word for evil "rah" is used in the Bible, examine the context of the Isaiah 45:7 passage, and look at other passages on the same subject.

First of all, the Hebrew word for evil "rah" is used in many different ways in the Bible. In the KJV Bible, it occurs 663 times. 431 times it is translated as "evil." The other 232 times it is translated as "wicked", "bad", "hurt", "harm", "ill", "sorrow", "mischief", "displeased", "adversity", "affliction", "trouble", "calamity", "grievous", "misery", and "trouble." So we can see that the word does not require that it be translated as "evil." This is why different Bibles translate this verse differently. It is translated as "calamity" by the NASB and NKJV; "disaster" by the NIV; and "woe" by the RSV.

Second, the context of the verse is speaking of natural phenomena.
"I am the Lord, and there is no other; Besides Me there is no God. I will gird you, though you have not known Me; That men may know from the rising to the setting of the sun That there is no one besides Me. I am the Lord, and there is no other, The One forming light and creating darkness, Causing well-being and creating calamity; I am the Lord who does all these." (Isaiah 45:5-7).

Notice that the context of the verse is dealing with who God is, that it is God who speaks of natural phenomena (sun, light, dark), and it is God who is able to cause "well-being" as well as "calamity." Contextually, this verse is dealing with natural disasters, and human comfort issues. It is not speaking of moral evil; rather, it is dealing with calamity, distress, etc. This is consistent with other scriptures. For example:

"And the Lord said to him, "Who has made man’s mouth? Or who makes him dumb or deaf, or seeing or blind? Is it not I, the Lord?" (Exodus 4:11).
"Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?" (Amos 3:6).
From the above two verses we can see that the Lord is involved in calamity and problems in the earthly realm. Exodus 4:11 is speaking of human frailty and Amos 3:6 is speaking of woes in a city. It is not a moral evil that God brings, but calamity.

Third, there are other verses that clearly show that God is pure and that He cannot approve of evil.

"The Rock! His work is perfect, For all His ways are just; a God of faithfulness and without injustice, righteous and upright is He." (Deut. 32:4).

"Thine eyes are too pure to approve evil, and Thou canst not look on wickedness with favor." (Hab. 1:13).

We can see that the Bible teaches that God is pure and does not approve of evil, that the word "rah" (evil) in Hebrew can mean many things, and that contextually, the verse is speaking calamity and distress. Therefore, God does not create evil in the moral sense, but in the sense of disaster, of calamity.


Well done for putting people right on that. It just goes to show how deceptive some anti-Christian websites can be when they mess about with translations. More fool that person in his use of copy & paste 'wisdom'.

[tinmenace]

Well share you beliefs instead of negatively trying to destroy others beliefs. So what do you believe in? And how will that defeat the alien invasion?

I'm not trying to destroy anything. I'm simply pointing out truth, and what I posted about the wave function is not negative. How do you perceive that to be negative?

It's about quantum, and the very structure of our illusion that some think is reality.

If you haven't already seen it, watch this short video (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1005391949403496551&q=dr+quantum&total=240&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=1) about the wave function, and 'observers'.


Also, if you have not read David's book Infinite Love is the Only Truth, Everything Else is Illusion (http://www.davidickebooks.co.uk/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=2), I HIGHLY recommend it. Then you will understand where I'm coming from, and that my intent in these discussions with you is a positive and loving one...not negative and malicious.

If you really really want to understand my angle, if that's even important to you, then take up my challenge...if not then this is clearly not a debate.

[yinon]

The Bible does not deny anyone the ascension of consciousness. In fact, it encourages and promotes it.

There is no ascension possible when you polarize beings and things between light and darkness

The bible promotes polarity. It's conditional love. Unconditional lover can see behind the front. Wars are the first consequence

The darker ones are often the more courageous

The light bearer is sold to their agenda. He is the greatest warrior on earth. He supports separation and intellectualize all. He cannot love only shine

[titurel]

I'm not trying to destroy anything. I'm simply pointing out truth, .
Well i just happen to disagree with your "truth"... what you believe is no different to what Freemason Albert Pike believed. I think David Icke has done a great service in helping to expose the Satanic conspiracy but I do not think he's had much impact on the world. It's true that more people people are waking up but as we can see, even on this forum, people are still more divided than ever, just like Babel. Man cannot sort out global problems on his own and that's what I don't think you are addressing.

[tinmenace]

Well i just happen to disagree with your "truth"... what you believe is no different to what Freemason Albert Pike believed.

So, you're saying that Pike had an understanding of Quantum Mechanics?

[titurel]

I am in awe of your ability to dance with logic, titurel. Perhaps you can explain these biblical contradictions for me:

Who was Joseph's father?

Matthew 1:16 - "And Jacob [was the father of] Joseph."

vs.

Luke 3:23 - "Joseph...was the son of Heli."


Did Michal have children?

II Samuel 6:23 - "Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no child unto the day of her death."

vs.

II Samuel 21:8 - "But the king took...the five sons of Michal the daughter of Saul..."


Are we punished for our parents' sins?

Exodus 20:5 "For I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation." (Repeated in Deuteronomy 5:9)

Exodus 34:6-7 " . . . The Lord God, merciful and gracious, . . . that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation."

vs.

Ezekiel 18:20 "The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father."

Deuteronomy 24:16 "The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin."


Who was Joseph's father?

Matthew 1:16 - "And Jacob [was the father of] Joseph."

vs.

Luke 3:23 - "Joseph...was the son of Heli."


Did Michal have children?

II Samuel 6:23 - "Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no child unto the day of her death."

vs.

II Samuel 21:8 - "But the king took...the five sons of Michal the daughter of Saul..."


Are we punished for our parents' sins?

Exodus 20:5 "For I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation." (Repeated in Deuteronomy 5:9)

Exodus 34:6-7 " . . . The Lord God, merciful and gracious, . . . that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation."

vs.

Ezekiel 18:20 "The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father."

Deuteronomy 24:16 "The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin."
The examples you've given above are very old news. You'll find that all the alleged contradictions have been cleared up. Check out this site:

http://www.thebereans.net/contra-i01.shtml

[titurel]

So, you're saying that Pike had an understanding of Quantum Mechanics?
I was getting you mixed up with kasalt. It was kasalt who said Satan and God are the same. Apolgies for that. However, my main point still remains... where I wrote, I think David Icke has done a great service in helping to expose the Satanic conspiracy but I do not think he's had much impact on the world. It's true that more people people are waking up but as we can see, even on this forum, people are still more divided than ever, just like Babel. Man cannot sort out global problems on his own and that's what I don't think you are addressing.

[titurel]

The bible promotes polarity.
Actually, the Bible does not promote polarity. In the last book of the Bible, Revelation, Jesus Christ teaches, at great length and in very proound detail, how to overcome polarity, namely in the seven letters.

[tinmenace]

Man cannot sort out global problems on his own and that's what I don't think you are addressing.



I'm not trying to destroy anything. I'm simply pointing out truth, and what I posted about the wave function is not negative. How do you perceive that to be negative?

It's about quantum, and the very structure of our illusion that some think is reality.

If you haven't already seen it, watch this short video (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1005391949403496551&q=dr+quantum&total=240&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=1) about the wave function, and 'observers'.


Also, if you have not read David's book Infinite Love is the Only Truth, Everything Else is Illusion (http://www.davidickebooks.co.uk/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=2), I HIGHLY recommend it. Then you will understand where I'm coming from, and that my intent in these discussions with you is a positive and loving one...not negative and malicious.

If you really really want to understand my angle, if that's even important to you, then take up my challenge...if not then this is clearly not a debate.




That is exactly what I'm addressing, but from an angle that you have perhaps not yet explored. Would you watch the short 5 minute video clip, and tell me your thoughts on it?

[kasalt]

Why do you practice vegetarianism and more generally what do you get out of being a Hare Krishna? You think the Bible is a fraud but I'm curious about why you choose this instead of it. Have you ever been a Christian yourself?

As long as there are sufficient vegetarian foods available, the killing of hapless animals is not only unnecessary, it is satanic. Satanists get a kick out of animal sacrifice. (Why did the "god" of the Bible demand animal sacrifice? Hmm, I wonder...)

I was raised Catholic. I converted to evangelical Protestant after accepting Jesus as Savior at 13. After learning about the Franklin Cover-up and coming across David Icke's lectures on Google video nearly a year ago, and then about the many undeniable contradictions there are in the Bible, here I am. Why am I a Hare Krishna? I am not a member. I have only visited ISKCON temples on a few occasions to attend their worship services and their vegetarian feasts (free to the public on Sundays at your nearest ISKCON temple, I highly recommend everyone attend). I have read some of their scriptures, and I consider them to be sublime among all of the scriptures of the world's religions that I have come across.

[titurel]

That is exactly what I'm addressing, but from an angle that you have perhaps not yet explored. Would you watch the short 5 minute video clip, and tell me your thoughts on it?
I have seen that video a few months ago on another forum and I don't disagree with it but you haven't addressed the issue that even here on this forum, people are divided. The world is more divided than ever with each being an expert in his or own ideas. If people cannot unite, there is no hope that the alien invasion and the NWO agenda can be averted because they thrive and flourish through division. I therefore do not see how men are going to defeat the NWO agenda on their own. That is the issue...

[kasalt]

I was getting you mixed up with kasalt. It was kasalt who said Satan and God are the same.

CORRECTION!

titurel, I do not say that Satan and God are the same! I am exposing the secret doctrine of the elite, which says that Satan and God are the same. BIG difference!

Truth is, Satan does not exist, except in the psyches of mentally ill people.

[tinmenace]

I have seen that video a few months ago on another forum and I don't disagree with it but you haven't addressed the issue that even here on this forum, people are divided. The world is more divided than ever with each being an expert in his or own ideas. If people cannot unite, there is no hope that the alien invasion and the NWO agenda can be averted because they thrive and flourish through division. I therefore do not see how men are going to defeat the NWO agenda on their own. That is the issue...

The very thing, that I call a spell, that keeps people from seeing this evidence and not accepting it is what keeps us from moving forward and upward. It's the thing that keeps us divided. If people were able to look at truth and let go of obsolete thinking we would unite consciously and overthrow the evil that has us in a stranglehold. But, the spell is so strong and people are too tied up with their 3D delusion to transcend it into quantum thinking.

Consciousness is more powerful than people know, it's capable of miracles, and if we unite our consciousness in a common goal founded on Infinite Love, the evil entities have no chance with us because they will no longer have the tools to DIVIDE and CONQUER us.

But, as long was we buy into their manufactured belief systems, such as religion, it will be a much harder job for the conscious beings to pull this off by themselves.

[titurel]

The link you sent me to said absolutely nothing about the contradictions I listed. I'll try again:

Who was Joseph's father?

Matthew 1:16 - &quot;And Jacob [was the father of] Joseph.&quot;

vs.

Luke 3:23 - &quot;Joseph...was the son of Heli.&quot;
Let's take your first example first... The NT gives the genealogy for Jesus descending from David through both his mother and father, namely Mary and Joseph. By blood, Jesus was descended from David, through his mother, Mary... whilst on the other side, Jesus' genealogy through his father, Joseph, establishes his legal right to David's throne. Luke lists the maternal genealogy of Jesus going right back to Adam. There is no contradiction.

[kasalt]

OK, I'm willing to accept that one, how about the one on Micael's children/no children?

[titurel]

The very thing, that I call a spell, that keeps people from seeing this evidence and not accepting it is what keeps us from moving forward and upward. It's the thing that keeps us divided. If people were able to look at truth and let go of obsolete thinking we would unite consciously and overthrow the evil that has us in a stranglehold. But, the spell is so strong and people are too tied up with their 3D delusion to transcend it into quantum thinking.

Consciousness is more powerful than people know, it's capable of miracles, and if we unite our consciousness in a common goal founded on Infinite Love, the evil entities have no chance with us because they will no longer have the tools to DIVIDE and CONQUER us.

But, as long was we buy into their manufactured belief systems, such as religion, it will be a much harder job for the conscious beings to pull this off by themselves.
I agree that consciousness is more powerful than most people know and it's very true that if people were able to look at truth and let go of obsolete thinking we would unite consciously and overthrow the evil that has us in a stranglehold. But, everyone has different ideas of what truth is, which is why, even on this forum, there is very little agreement. There is no sign that people are coming together despite what you've written above because the more men find out, the more division there is. So youstill haven't ecplained how the Reptilian problem can be overcome except to express your worthy wishes but people have had this wish for ages and still there is more division than ever.

[bigus_dickus]

guys, taking phrases out of context doesn't help to understand anything, it only confuses both the "believer" and the "unbeliever". so it would be better that everyone expands their ideas and perceptions from reading the actual text and not one-liners taken out of context and combined.

if you have any objections to this, i can do some work for you and 'prove' that David Icke is a satanic reptilian. (of course he isn't, but you know what i mean)

to clear some misunderstandings, if i can. please read carefully and you will understand. first the original, then the translation by yours truly:

psalm 82:

1 Ψαλμὸς τῷ Ασαφ. Ὁ θεὸς ἔστη ἐν συναγωγῇ θεῶν, ἐν μέσῳ δὲ θεοὺς διακρίνει

psalm of asaph. God, is in assembly of gods, among gods he discerns

2 Ἕως πότε κρίνετε ἀδικίαν καὶ πρόσωπα ἁμαρτωλῶν λαμβάνετε; διάψαλμα.

for how long are you going to judge injustice and keep sinners' faces to yourselves? pause

3 κρίνατε ὀρφανὸν καὶ πτωχόν, ταπεινὸν καὶ πένητα δικαιώσατε·

but judge the orphan and the poor, the humble and the weak you should justify

4 ἐξέλεσθε πένητα καὶ πτωχόν, ἐκ χειρὸς ἁμαρτωλοῦ ῥύσασθε

free the weak and poor and save them from the sinners' hand

5 οὐκ ἔγνωσαν οὐδὲ συνῆκαν, ἐν σκότει διαπορεύονται· σαλευθήσονται πάντα τὰ θεμέλια τῆς γῆς.

they do not know, neither do they understand (that), as they walk in darkness, everything inside earth move

6 ἐγὼ εἶπα Θεοί ἐστε καὶ υἱοὶ ὑψίστου πάντες·

i have said that Gods you are and sons of the most highest, everyone

7 ὑμεῖς δὲ ὡς ἄνθρωποι ἀποθνῄσκετε καὶ ὡς εἷς τῶν ἀρχόντων πίπτετε.

but you as humans die and as humans you fall for the archons

8 ἀνάστα, ὁ θεός, κρῖνον τὴν γῆν, ὅτι σὺ κατακληρονομήσεις ἐν πᾶσιν τοῖς ἔθνεσιν.

resurrect, God, judging the earth, that you will inherit everything in all nations


what does it mean:

the psalm says that when you judge the sinners, you become one of them and thus you keep the "wheel of sin" turning.

but, instead of fighting the evil, you should praise the weak and the poor and those who need and do justice to them, who have been perpetrated by the sinning ones.

then it says: you are all sons of the highest god, but as humans you die, because you are fallen into the archons' realm.


now, about jesus' words. he is being kind of ironic, because people call him a blasphemer for saying "i am the son of God" and want to stone him because of saying that and not because of his deeds. so he says:

isn't it written in your law (the OT), that "you are gods"?

(jesus, as we can see, is not fond of the law of the OT, but he knows that people of that time have the OT as the book of their law, thus they kill the "blasphemers" who dare to talk against it. refer to the link that i have posted before "the 10 commandmens condemned" to get a clue of what i am saying here)

if he called them Gods, those to whom his words came and if the scripture is indisputable (he means, if you think that your book is legit), to the one (jesus) that he blessed and sent to the world, you call him a blasphemer because he said "i am the son of God"?

(he points out the contradiction in their thinking, which is based on their book as you see!)

if i am not doing the deeds of my father, then don't believe me. but what if i do them and you don't believe me? from what i do, believe me, so that you will understand that always my father is inside me and i am inside my father.

(he is very clear.. that if you judge someone from his words, according to a book, you are a false judge. you can only judge someone from his actions, because his actions are the effect of who he is. words can be misleading.

in other words, if you think that GW Bush is doing the "work of God", as he says he does, by killing millions of people, then you are certainly a false judge, because you would judge what he does from what he says, you would believe him and not your own self, your intuition that says that he is lying, because of his actions. this, is the nature of "lies", because a lie would not be a lie, if it wasn't presented as truth, it would defeat its purpose. therefore someone who says "i am the son of God", or "i am christian", could be telling the truth, or lying (satanists and atheists have no problem with that). how would you know? you already do.)

[titurel]

OK, I'm willing to accept that one, how about the one on Micael's children/no children?
There is still no contradiction...

Did Michal Have Children?

by Caleb Colley, B.A., B.S.

Michal enjoyed the delicacies, privileges, and riches of the king’s palace, but she was never blessed with children. Or was she? The passage in 2 Samuel 6:23 reads, “Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no children to the day of her death,” yet 2 Samuel 21:8 reads, “So the king took Armoni and Mephibosheth, the two sons of Rizpah the daughter of Aiah, whom she bore to Saul, and the five sons of Michal the daughter of Saul, whom she brought up for Adriel the son of Barzillai the Meholathite” (emp. added).

Michal was the younger daughter of the first king of Israel, Saul (1 Samuel 14:49), and she married the successor to the throne, David (1 Samuel 18:27). Because Saul wanted to kill David, David had to flee, leaving his bride behind (1 Samuel 19:11-12). When David returned some years later, Saul had cancelled the marriage, and Michal was married to Phalti (1 Samuel 25:44). David reclaimed her, but both Michal and David were very different people by this time, and a sharp disagreement drove them apart (2 Samuel 6:12-23). It is in the context of the disturbance of Michal’s marriage to David that the Bible reveals she had no children until the day of her death. If Michal indeed had no children, it might seem that the Bible has contradicted itself in this instance.

Before believing that the inspired writer got “mixed up,” consider the following: Michal’s sister, Merab, married Adriel the Meholathite (1 Samuel 18:19), and it was Adriel’s children that, according to 2 Samuel 21:8, belonged to Michal and were “brought up” by Michal. The Hebrew word translated “brought up” could mean that Michal actually gave birth to the children, but it also could mean that Michal acted as a midwife when the children were born, or that she reared the children. It is altogether possible that Merab died, and Michal, having the resources to provide for a family, and being childless herself, “adopted” Merab’s children (Coffman, 1992, p. 297). In that case, it would be perfectly reasonable to assume that the children, for all practical purposes, belonged to Michal, and that Michal “brought them up.”

Another possibility is that a copyist of the Hebrew Old Testament made a mistake. Since it is clear that Michal was married to David and not Adriel, and that Michal had no offspring, some have suggested that a copyist of long ago simply got the two sisters confused (Clarke, n.d., p. 367). There are manuscripts, including the Kennicott and Chaldee, that use the name of Merab in the place of Michal in 2 Samuel 21:8 (p. 367). Some translations, including the New American Standard Bible, the New International Version, and the English Standard Version, also render 2 Samuel 21:8 with the name of Merab rather than Michal.

We know that Michal had no children, but we will probably always be uncertain of what role (if any) Michal played in the rearing of the children of Adriel. With the two possible explanations given, we can see that a contradiction does not exist in this case.

REFERENCES

Clarke, Adam (no date), Clarke’s Commentary: Joshua-Esther (Nashville, TN: Abingdon).
Coffman, James Burton (1992), Commentary on Second Samuel (Abilene, TX: ACU Press).

[titurel]

the psalm says that when you judge the sinners, you become one of them and thus you keep the "wheel of sin" turning.
I disagree that Psalm says that when you judge the sinners, you become one of them and thus you keep the "wheel of sin" turning.

How did you arrive at that bizzarre interpretation? You didn't clearly explain...

[bigus_dickus]

I disagree that Psalm says that when you judge the sinners, you become one of them and thus you keep the "wheel of sin" turning.

How did you arrive at that bizzarre interpretation? You didn't clearly explain...

well that's what the quotations are for.. i meant what you fight, you eventually become.

if you don't believe that, try it.

[titurel]

well that's what the quotations are for.. i meant what you fight, you eventually become.

if you don't believe that, try it.
You're shifting the goal posts now and introducing a wider problem. I disgree that it's always the case that you become what you fight. Many people fought racism and didn't become racists, for example. Thanks to the fighting spirit of those people, we now have laws that make showing racism illegal in many respects, and by fighting, I don't mean phusical fighting but rather through debate.

[tinmenace]

I agree that consciousness is more powerful than most people know and it's very true that if people were able to look at truth and let go of obsolete thinking we would unite consciously and overthrow the evil that has us in a stranglehold. But, everyone has different ideas of what truth is, which is why, even on this forum, there is very little agreement. There is no sign that people are coming together despite what you've written above because the more men find out, the more division there is. So youstill haven't ecplained how the Reptilian problem can be overcome except to express your worthy wishes but people have had this wish for ages and still there is more division than ever.

How do we overcome it? With quantum thinking which is what I've been trying to explain to you...

[john white]

You're shifting the goal posts now and introducing a wider problem. I disgree that it's always the case that you become what you fight. Many people fought racism and didn't become racists, for example. Thanks to the fighting spirit of those people, we now have laws that make showing racism illegal in many respects, and by fighting, I don't mean phusical fighting but rather through debate.

You need a LAW to stop you being Racist? Hah! Laws are simply excuses for stagnated development and the furtherance of the status quo. each man is responsible for his own actions and laws are merely sops to his ego when he knows what is right if he just has the courage for it

"Judge not lest you be judged": remember that one?

Who did more to demonstrate to the world the iniquity of racism, those who started wars against those who they saw as oppressing them, or those who led by example by demonstrating humanity and brotherly Love?

Have no doubt about it, Martin Luther King understood the need to be the example of what is right even though it was neither wise or politic or safe to do so. He paid for it with his life, but he did not fight anyone

Wherever there is conflict, humanity loses and the illuminati win

[tinmenace]

Titurel, you're not getting one more ounce of energy out of me. I'm done with you. I believe you are an energy vampire, and I've given enough to you. If you still don't get it now, then I am not the one to help you further.

Good luck to ya.

[titurel]

Titurel, you're not getting one more ounce of energy out of me. I'm done with you. I believe you are an energy vampire, and I've given enough to you. If you still don't get it now, then I am not the one to help you further.

Good luck to ya.
Thank goodness for that. You run away from the debate because you cannot face the truth. You accuse others of being energy vampires when all you can do is act like a troll and thow mud. You're a hypocritand I've had enough of you too, so the feeling is mutual.

Good luck to ya too!

[titurel]

You need a LAW to stop you being Racist? Hah! Laws are simply excuses for stagnated development and the furtherance of the status quo. each man is responsible for his own actions and laws are merely sops to his ego when he knows what is right if he just has the courage for it
You have a habit of twisting what people say. I never said that law is necessary to stop myself from being racist. My point was that racism has been greatly reduced because certain people fought for black rights. They did not become racist and that undermines the argument that you become what you fight, so you need to get real...

"Judge not lest you be judged": remember that one?
And you ought toake note of that too when you judge others of harbouring fear, otherwise you're a hypocrit!

Who did more to demonstrate to the world the iniquity of racism, those who started wars against those who they saw as oppressing them, or those who led by example by demonstrating humanity and brotherly Love?

Have no doubt about it, Martin Luther King understood the need to be the example of what is right even though it was neither wise or politic or safe to do so. He paid for it with his life, but he did not fight anyone
Luther King is a fine example of someone who fought and did not become what he fought. Thanks for proving my point further!

Wherever there is conflict, humanity loses and the illuminati win
Very true, but the illuminat will loose anyway because only God has the power to defeat beings that inhabit a different dimension to our own.

[heretic]

I wish Jesus would come down and take away all his followers, I really do. That would be a great revelation. But no, we still have to suffer all your bullshit.

[baron von lotsov]

As long as there are sufficient vegetarian foods available, the killing of hapless animals is not only unnecessary, it is satanic. Satanists get a kick out of animal sacrifice. (Why did the "god" of the Bible demand animal sacrifice? Hmm, I wonder...)

I was raised Catholic. I converted to evangelical Protestant after accepting Jesus as Savior at 13. After learning about the Franklin Cover-up and coming across David Icke's lectures on Google video nearly a year ago, and then about the many undeniable contradictions there are in the Bible, here I am. Why am I a Hare Krishna? I am not a member. I have only visited ISKCON temples on a few occasions to attend their worship services and their vegetarian feasts (free to the public on Sundays at your nearest ISKCON temple, I highly recommend everyone attend). I have read some of their scriptures, and I consider them to be sublime among all of the scriptures of the world's religions that I have come across.

Yes, we have a group of Hare Krishnas in our town. Now before that I used to see them at festivals and thought they were ok, although I didn't know them. On one occasion I sampled their food and thought it quite generous of them. Now the ones in my town turned up to this music event and they were very weird indeed. This was the first time I had experienced an evening with them and on reflection I can say with certainty that they were brainwashed to the extreme. I think even you would agree. I don't mean in what they were saying, I mean that they were all in a complete trance the entire evening. That really did shock me to see people reduced to that helpless state.

Also another thing is we need meat. Our bodies are adapted for it and if we don't eat it we suffer and one of the things that gets under nourished is the brain. It takes 1/7 of the energy of the body for starters and it is important to have sufficient protein. All the government studies are bogus on this as vegetarianism is part of their agenda.

Finally I had a feeling you might have been in a Christian environment during your up bringing. Often people who have had strict Christian morals drummed into them in an excessive and uncaring way grow to despise the religion. You are by far not the only one on here who has your kind of background. I personally think some of the Christian teaching in America falls far short of what it is supposed to be about. If there is no love or conditional love then it is bogus.

[john white]

You have a habit of twisting what people say. I never said that law is necessary to stop myself from being racist. My point was that racism has been greatly reduced because certain people fought for black rights. They did not become racist and that undermines the argument that you become what you fight, so you need to get real...


LOL! oh no it doesnt! Its those who don't fight but provide the better example who bring about change: its those who riot and destroy who re-inforce the sterotypes and prevent change. And you don't find Martin Luther King fighting anyone: he simply stated his principles and lived by them

Let me ask you a question:

Lets imagine that you have all the members of the illuminati captured and under arrest, and its your call as to what should be done with them

What would you do?

[baron von lotsov]

LOL! oh no it doesnt!

~~~twist~~twist~~~~~~twist~~~


Every reply you have ever given me when you disagree with something uses the same twistedness.

[john white]

Every reply you have ever given me when you disagree with something uses the same twistedness.

It only appears "twisty" to you Baron becuase your mind runs on rails and you can't imagine the freedom of any other way: in fact, your variously mortified of the very idea

Some call it "being multidimensional"

Look again: its really not that hard to understand



1) Its those who don't fight but provide the better example who bring about change:

2) Its those who riot and destroy who re-inforce the sterotypes and prevent change.

3) And you don't find Martin Luther King fighting anyone: he simply stated his principles and lived by them


What, exactly, do you disgree with? Point 1? Point 2? Point3? or a combination thereof?

Or is it simply that I said it and i'm not under your control? (and thus, neither is the debate...)

[tinmenace]

Every reply you have ever given me when you disagree with something uses the same twistedness.

Just because you don't comprehend it at this time, doesn't mean it's twisted.

[john white]

Let me ask you a question:

Lets imagine that you have all the members of the illuminati captured and under arrest, and its your call as to what should be done with them

What would you do?

Question for titurel still stands

[baron von lotsov]

I'd force them into jobs like cleaning toilets for the rest of their lives and helping people for just basic subsistence pay and force them to live in squalid high-rise blocks of flats. If they failed once in their duties I'd do what the judge did to Paris Hilton.

[auron]

Let me ask you a question:

Lets imagine that you have all the members of the illuminati captured and under arrest, and its your call as to what should be done with them

What would you do?

Sit down with them and introduce them to the wonderful world of psilocybin mushrooms.

http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/1741/shroompotgw4.gif

[titurel]

LOL! oh no it doesnt! Its those who don't fight but provide the better example who bring about change: its those who riot and destroy who re-inforce the sterotypes and prevent change. And you don't find Martin Luther King fighting anyone: he simply stated his principles and lived by them

Let me ask you a question:

Lets imagine that you have all the members of the illuminati captured and under arrest, and its your call as to what should be done with them

What would you do?
Actually, in a previous post I wrote that physical fighting is not the answer... debate is.

In reply to your question about the illuminati,,, the greatest problem is not men in the illuminati but the otther dimensional beings that control and inspire them and only God can deal with those.

[mk72]

I was getting you mixed up with kasalt. It was kasalt who said Satan and God are the same. Apolgies for that. However, my main point still remains... where I wrote, I think David Icke has done a great service in helping to expose the Satanic conspiracy but I do not think he's had much impact on the world. It's true that more people people are waking up but as we can see, even on this forum, people are still more divided than ever, just like Babel. Man cannot sort out global problems on his own and that's what I don't think you are addressing.

Tirurel are you aware that David Icke believes that Jesus was a figment of someone's imagination, have you read any of his books and what do you think about it? Also in you personal believe how do you explain the dead sea scrolls (much older and authentic) contradicting the Bible? Do you think the Is-rael-lites where from Israel or from Egypt? Remember the historian Josephus never recorded any of these places in the bible but meticioulisly records all other events. By the way Satanism and Luciferism is not the same thing: Satanism is the believe in the Christian created Satan, Luciferism is the believe in the "bearer of Light" the Egyptian sungod religion or Atonism - following Akhenaton or Aton.

[john white]

LOL! oh no it doesnt! Its those who don't fight but provide the better example who bring about change: its those who riot and destroy who re-inforce the sterotypes and prevent change. And you don't find Martin Luther King fighting anyone: he simply stated his principles and lived by them

Let me ask you a question:

Lets imagine that you have all the members of the illuminati captured and under arrest, and its your call as to what should be done with them

What would you do?

Actually, in a previous post I wrote that physical fighting is not the answer... debate is.

In reply to your question about the illuminati,,, the greatest problem is not men in the illuminati but the otther dimensional beings that control and inspire them and only God can deal with those.

Ok so you'd debate them instead of fight them... and you'd also say that in some way they are not responsible, becuase they are being inter dimensionally manipulated...

So why is there an issue in recognising fighting is not a solution? If fighting solved anything, surely it would be the answer? But if fighting makes one as bad as what one fights... "what one fights one becomes".. well clearly then fighting is not the answer, becuase it perpetuates the division and sows Chaos. Yet you say fighting is not the answer, but you reject the reason WHY fighting is not the answer...

Or do you have another reason why fighting is not the answer? Becuase God is going to sort it out for us? How can "he", when he gifted us with free will? Again, the subversion of free will is what Satan/Lucifer stands for, not God, is it not? How then is God going to sort it out for us if we cannot/willnot/(hide behind excuses why we) arn't sorting it out for ourselves? All God has ever desired is for us to choose to Love Him: and He Loves us enough to never force us to

Don't you think that if there had been an easy answer, there would be no problem by now?

To answer my own question about "what if" regarding the illuminati, I would give them all life sentances in reasonable conditions and ensure that each one of them recieved ongoing counciling from the foremost minds on the planet to give them every opportunity to bring themselves into balance. And then, after the end of their natural spans, it becomes an "upstairs" problem

[titurel]

Tirurel are you aware that David Icke believes that Jesus was a figment of someone's imagination, have you read any of his books and what do you think about it?
Whilst I like David Icke and believe he's done a great deal of good in exposing the conspiracy, I also feel he's thrown the baby out with the bath water.

Also in you personal believe how do you explain the dead sea scrolls (much older and authentic) contradicting the Bible?
Explain,... what contradiction?

Do you think the Is-rael-lites where from Israel or from Egypt? Remember the historian Josephus never recorded any of these places in the bible but meticioulisly records all other events.
Like I said above, I'm not a one book person, but rather glean info from 1000's of books and sources about the Satanic conspiracy.

By the way Satanism and Luciferism is not the same thing: Satanism is the believe in the Christian created Satan, Luciferism is the believe in the "bearer of Light" the Egyptian sungod religion or Atonism - following Akhenaton or Aton.
I agree that there is difference but Luciferianism is merely the outer portico of Satanism. Madam Blavatsky and Freemason Albert Pike were Luciferians...

"Lucifer, the Light-bearer! Strange and mysterious name to give to the Spirit of Darkness! Lucifer, the Son of the Morning!" - Freemason Albert Pike

[seanx]

Tirurel are you aware that David Icke believes that Jesus was a figment of someone's imagination, have you read any of his books and what do you think about it? Also in you personal believe how do you explain the dead sea scrolls (much older and authentic) contradicting the Bible?

None of these people have EVER read a dave icke book.

They are part of the far-right Christian fundamentalists - here
to drive home their idealogy.

it is pointless arguing with them.

They are literally sucking/vampiring your energy..dragging it back
down into matrix.

They're on duty ...over here...soon they'll be gone ...once they get their
orders...and told where else to go.

But it has been beneficial getting another insight in to the minds
of these mind-controlled Christians.

And it's scary.

If I was their religious leader- I could literallly get these people to do
anything.

Anything.

Once the core implants of the 'God Program' are in place...and
in the baron and titurel's case ..they definitely are...to trigger any
further action would simply involve a simple manipulation of that
program.

These implants are not just verbal implants but deep psychic
implants that probably span many layers of the Matrix.

Many people would have these implants from many lives --and from many different dimensions of the matrix.

For example, when we die...we will gravitate to the dimension
that matches our core beliefs and feelings.

Thus 'Christians' will find themselves in the environment they believe in.

They will think this place is 'heaven' as it will be structured and
created along Christians beliefs.

Likewise Muslims will find themselves in their self-created
environment.

All these realities are similar to this reality only vibrating at a
much 'faster ' level.

So in a way, reality can be whatever you want it to be.

When we die, we'll see this much clearer - as reality almost
instantly changes to match our changing belief patterns.

Click your fingers ..and your're in a different reality. A lot of people
on this forum will have memories of that.

In the ultimate sense, all these different realites are not real -
it only appears so - so that we can play this game.

One film screen can show thousands of different films - it lets these
films 'live' - but it is not in any way affected by them.

So let them have their beliefs.... that's the movie they are creating for themselves.

[tinmenace]

Well said!

[titurel]

Ok so you'd debate them instead of fight them... and you'd also say that in some way they are not responsible, becuase they are being inter dimensionally manipulated...
You always twist what posters say... you just like an argument. I did not say I would debate with the illuminati and I did not say they are not responsible because of their manipulation. Please read what I write!

So why is there an issue in recognising fighting is not a solution?
I didn't realise there was an issue. I've never said physical fighting is the way!

Yet you say fighting is not the answer, but you reject the reason WHY fighting is not the answer...
What reason?

Or do you have another reason why fighting is not the answer? Becuase God is going to sort it out for us? How can "he", when he gifted us with free will?
God only gave us free will up to a point!

To answer my own question about "what if" regarding the illuminati, I would give them all life sentances in reasonable conditions and ensure that each one of them recieved ongoing counciling from the foremost minds on the planet to give them every opportunity to bring themselves into balance. And then, after the end of their natural spans, it becomes an "upstairs" problem
Fantasy land... of course!

[titurel]

None of these people have EVER read a dave icke book.
Speak for yourself. I've been studying Icke's material since he first started publishing it, and have been studying the subject long before he had his epiphany!

They are part of the far-right Christian fundamentalists - here to drive home their idealogy.
Slanderer! All organised religions - fundamental or otherwise - are Babylon the Great... the Harlot.[/quote]

[john white]

Ha! your a proper joker Titurel. The exploration of the issues on the thread gets to big for you and then its "what issues on this thread?"

Well, the issue you'd claimed here to have addressed of course...

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?p=72466#post72466

The point is that one does not always become what one fights and I think that has been satisfactorily proved to be the case with the racism example I introduced.

Now I don't want to shock you, but yes, "what if" questions are the contemplation of "fantasy", or as some people call it, imagination

Very useful skill! You should work on it

[john white]

Slanderer! All organised religions - fundamental or otherwise - are Babylon the Great... the Harlot.

Oh! Now thats interesting! ALL organised religions are the work of the Harlot of Babylon, but the Bible is completely true, and the problem is people not understanding this properly.. whilst presumably, all other scripture is toilet paper to you becuase ROME (Hint! Babylon! Spot the Nimrod Hat!) didn't sanction them?

Thought that was going to leak out of your psyche sooner or later...

Now I could forgive the Council's of Nicea a lot if they left out the bad mushroom trip known as "The Book of Revelations", and it very nearly did, it only just scraped through on the college votes... Christianity would be a far more sane Religion if only they had...

[bigus_dickus]

You're shifting the goal posts now and introducing a wider problem. I disgree that it's always the case that you become what you fight. Many people fought racism and didn't become racists, for example. Thanks to the fighting spirit of those people, we now have laws that make showing racism illegal in many respects, and by fighting, I don't mean phusical fighting but rather through debate.

then, you disagree with the message of christ, who said "love your enemies" and "forgive them father, for they don't know what they are doing" and "love each other as you love yourself" and "when someone hurts you, don't take revenge, be kind (turn the other cheek)"..

if racism is "illegal" as you say, this means that the problem of racism is still a problem, not eliminated, but condemned. it makes people racists against racists. as i said, if you don't believe, try it yourself (hint: you are already doing it perhaps)

[titurel]

Oh! Now thats interesting! ALL organised religions are the work of the Harlot of Babylon, but the Bible is completely true
That's my opinion, yes...

Now I could forgive the Council's of Nicea a lot if they left out the bad mushroom trip known as "The Book of Revelations", and it very nearly did, it only just scraped through on the college votes... Christianity would be a far more sane Religion if only they had...
You seem to hate Revelation as much as Catholic theologians! LOL!

[titurel]

then, you disagree with the message of christ, who said "love your enemies" and "forgive them father, for they don't know what they are doing" and "love each other as you love yourself" and "when someone hurts you, don't take revenge, be kind (turn the other cheek)"..
No, I don't disagree with the things Christ said that you quoted above.

if racism is "illegal" as you say, this means that the problem of racism is still a problem, not eliminated, but condemned. it makes people racists against racists. as i said, if you don't believe, try it yourself (hint: you are already doing it perhaps)
Yes racism is still a problem... I never said it wasn't!

[john white]

That's my opinion, yes...


You seem to hate Revelation as much as Catholic theologians! LOL!

I'm not impressed by it, no, becuase its led to 2000 years of people wasting their lives in false beliefs that they are "living in the end times" when they never were, and it is a myth that serves the brotherhood very well to this very day. How many people do you think have cursed their foolishness to have spent themselves needlesly believing folly on their deathbeds? Countless millions! Its dis-information, pure and simple

But stop ducking the issues, becuase this is very important, and I guarentee you will make or break your standing on this forum

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Oh! Now thats interesting! ALL organised religions are the work of the Harlot of Babylon, but the Bible is completely true, and the problem is people not understanding this properly.. whilst presumably, all other scripture is toilet paper to you becuase ROME (Hint! Babylon! Spot the Nimrod Hat!) didn't sanction them?

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Now come on: how do you square your statement that all organised religion is the work of the brotherhood but accept the brotherhood doctored text without question? Do you pretend the councils of Nicea didnt happen? what about the butchery of meaning in the King James Version? Let alone the travesty of political correctness that is the New International blandness version

At least start by telling us: which bible do you read? And why?

[titurel]

I'm not impressed by it, no?
It's pretty obvious to me you have no understanding of Revelation. You also seem to refuse to accept we're living at the end of a cycle which is coinciding with the culmination of the NWO agenda.

Which is going to succeed?

The Luciferian NWO of Reptilians and the illuminati?

Or the NWO of the natural order of the universe that is maintained by od?

[john white]

It's pretty obvious to me you have no understanding of Revelation. You also seem to refuse to accept we're living at the end of a cycle which is coinciding with the culmination of the NWO agenda.

Which is going to succeed?

The Luciferian NWO of Reptilians and the illuminati?

Or the NWO of the natural order of the universe that is maintained by od?

Lets try it again...

...Stop ducking the issues, becuase this is very important, and I guarentee you will make or break your standing on this forum

---------------------

Oh! Now thats interesting! ALL organised religions are the work of the Harlot of Babylon, but the Bible is completely true, and the problem is people not understanding this properly.. whilst presumably, all other scripture is toilet paper to you becuase ROME (Hint! Babylon! Spot the Nimrod Hat!) didn't sanction them?

--------------------

Now come on: how do you square your statement that all organised religion is the work of the brotherhood but accept the brotherhood doctored text without question? Do you pretend the councils of Nicea didnt happen? what about the butchery of meaning in the King James Version? Let alone the travesty of political correctness that is the New International blandness version

At least start by telling us: which bible do you read? And why?

[tinmenace]

John, this person is a troll. Prolly paid to take up your time and energy. When someone contradicts themselves that many times, and leads you round and round in circles...he/she's a certified troll.

Save your energy bud. This is not someone searching for truth, and clearly doesn't have anything substantial to share with us. Nope, just just his/her own delusion.

I think anyone with even a sleeping soul would have stirred a little bit from the info offered on this thread but, this person(s) is not here to learn. Just trolling for low vibrational energy...

[john white]

It's pretty obvious to me you have no understanding of Revelation. You also seem to refuse to accept we're living at the end of a cycle which is coinciding with the culmination of the NWO agenda.

Well you can think that if you like... and obviously its easy for you to do so. Just as its easy for you NOT to think of the millions of people throughout history who have held a false belief and wasted their lives with a false understanding becuase of it. If you really want to understand revelations, then you have to understand it as a metaphor for an inner battle

Now i'll answer your question:

Which is going to succeed?

The Luciferian NWO of Reptilians and the illuminati?

Or the NWO of the natural order of the universe that is maintained by God?

The universe is fine. This planet is already paradise. Its simply that humanity has to complete its development and awaken into harmony with it

There are no "end of Ages" save what we choose to percieve: the constellations themselves on which the "Ages" are based are in themselves merely arbitary perceptions only relevant from a vantage here on earth

The is only one "agenda": the human agenda of Loving growth with God

John, this person is a troll. Prolly paid to take up your time and energy. When someone contradicts themselves that many times, and leads you round and round in circles...he/she's a certified troll.

Save your energy bud. This is not someone searching for truth, and clearly doesn't have anything substantial to share with us. Nope, just just his/her own delusion.

I think anyone with even a sleeping soul would have stirred a little bit from the info offered on this thread but, this person(s) is not here to learn. Just trolling for low vibrational energy...

Hey, its my Sunday. I like to debate these things out, I learn things and observe things I would'nt learn or observe otherwise. Having said that, I've got a mate come round now, so this will have to wait until later

Answer the Q titurel!;)

[mk72]

Whilst I like David Icke and believe he's done a great deal of good in exposing the conspiracy, I also feel he's thrown the baby out with the bath water.

I agree we should all decide our own truths. I think that before Christianity was hijacked, when it was still a mysticism can teach us a lot (dead sea scrolls), I do enjoy Gregg Braden’s book based on a lot of this mysticism it has a clear message for us now. Have you read it? But forget about the End of times, apocalypse it was invented in written in the bible by the Illuminati as a planned timeline just like they wrote the Protocols of Zion, and the new American century.

Explain,... what contradiction?

The Dead Sea Scrolls made no mention of Jesus Christ or the early Christian church. At the time of their discovery…It has long been known that there was information in the Dead Sea Scrolls damning to Christian beliefs and the church’s high-level involvement with interpreting the Scrolls fostered a grave element of suspicion. Since the Scrolls were found some six decades ago, close associates of the Vatican were placed in dominant positions in every phase of the investigation and translations of the Scrolls. The priests regulated the flow of information and controlled its release - Tony Bushby (The Bible Fraud)


Like I said above, I'm not a one book person, but rather glean info from 1000's of books and sources about the Satanic conspiracy.

As you can see I quote from a few sources so I too have read a lot of books on the subject including the few released Dead Sea Scrolls, the Nag Hamadi, the Coptic Gospels of Judas, and The Book of the Secrets of Enoch EST. And of course the bible.

I agree that there is difference but Luciferianism is merely the outer portico of Satanism. Madam Blavatsky and Freemason Albert Pike were Luciferians...

"Lucifer, the Light-bearer! Strange and mysterious name to give to the Spirit of Darkness! Lucifer, the Son of the Morning!" - Freemason Albert Pike

I think it is much older than that – this is a religion that has it’s foundations before Egypt, and the Bible might be an initiation book for this religion, this is only one of a wealth of many sources on this. The light refer to the sun worship of Atonism.
Yahweh placed his Hand on me; then I looked and saw a great Spirit from the north; a great cloud surrounded by Light and flashing Fire...I was what looked like Fire - a radiant disc of Light - (Ezekiel 1:3-28)
For all who fear My Name, the Sun of Righteousness shall shine with healing in its rays - (Malachi 4:2)
In Thy Light we see the Light - (Psalms 36:9)
God is Light - (1 John 1:5)
Send forth Thy Light and Thy Truth to be my guide - (Psalms 43:3)
He makes the breath His messenger and flames of fire his ministers - (Psalms 104:4)
The people who walked in darkness have seen a great Light - (Isaiah 9:2)
Be ready to receive the rewards of My Kingdom; the perpetual Light which will shine in you for ever and ever - (2 Esdras or 4 Ezra 2:35)
In fact show me one symbol of Christianity that does not belong to another older religion. Also the Roman Catholic Church wrote the first bibles and yet the word Vatican – Vaticum – means place of divinity (sorcery) does not sound like a Christian believes system.

Egyptian historian and High Priest, Manetho (ca. 300 B.C.), states that Moses had received much of his education in the Brotherhood under Akhenaton, the very pharaoh who pioneered monotheism:
Moses, a son of the tribe of Levi [one of the Hebrew tribes], educated in Egypt and initiated at Heliopolis [an Egyptian city], became a High Priest of the Brotherhood under the reign of Pharaoh Amenhotep [Akhenaton]. He was elected by the Hebrews as their chief and he adapted to the ideas of his people the science and philosophy which he had obtained in the Egyptian mysteries; proofs of this are to be found in the symbols, in the Initiations, and in his precepts and commandments. . .. The dogma of an “only God” which he taught was the Egyptian Brotherhood interpretation and teaching of the Pharaoh who established the first monotheistic religion known to man.‘ *

* This passage raises the question of when the Jewish exodus from Egypt had occurred. If Moses was a High Priest of the Brotherhood under Akhenaton, as Manetho states, but did not lead the exodus until the reign of Rameses II, as many historians believe, then Moses must have been an extremely old man at the time of the exodus. (Rameses II did not rule until almost one hundred years after Akhenaton.) The Bible, in Deuteronomy 34:7, states that Moses was 120 years old when he died. Claims of such advanced age may be difficult to accept in our modem day, but if it is true about Moses, then both Manetho and modern scholars would be correct in their datings.
Strong evidence in support of Manetho’s statement is found in the early teachings of Judaism, which were deeply mystical and utilized many Brotherhood symbols. Many of those mystical teachings are still taught today in the Jewish Cabala: a secret religious philosophy of Jewish rabbis. The Cabala continues to utilize a complex array of mystical symbols. Modern Israel’s national logo, the six-pointed Star of David, has been a Brotherhood symbol for thousands of years.