Help and advice on immigration

[john doe]

i have a friend who has outstayed her welcome , so to speak. She has had an invitation to attend a meeting with the local immigration policy officer. I dont know where to start but i suppose what rights does she have is a good place.

We are aware of the person and the immigration act

They have asked if she would go home of her own volition or will they have to deport her.

There is a child involved who is happily settled in the local education centre for kids. The child is thriving and is scoring a's all the way.

Recently social services had the child in custody but was returned to her mother as we later learned due to absolutely no co-operation by the mother. she refused to sign anything!!!

The child now complains of nightmares and is afraid and we would also like to know what can be done to rectify this matter. We feel someone is liable but dont know what to do

Please help with any information you have.

What can immigration do to send her home? if anything? and where would we go to complain about the social services mis handling of a young girl..

we are in Ireland.

[tien an]

Hi john doe,

I have a little experience in this field, but to help you further I need some more information.

1. Where is the mother from? (Obviously outside the EU, but which country? It's important.)
2. Under what circumstances did the mother come to the UK? (Student visa, visitor's visa...?)
3. Why did Social Services take the child into care?
4. Is the father of the child a UK citizen, and crucial point; is his name on the Birth Certificate?


I'm not going to raise your hopes at all at this point; sorry.
Do not be lulled into a false sense of security (for the mother's sake), that the fact that the child is well settled in education in this country will have much influence on the authorities' decision (sounds like you mean the child attends nursery...how old is the child?). I have to warn you that the immigration authorities are cold, bordering on heartless...as I say; I have some experience with them.

I doubt that the Freeman route will be useful for your friend (not at the moment anyway).
That is, unless she has already taken the necessary step of informing the various offices ...

From experience, I would play their rules to the letter.
Please tell your friend that I urge her to leave the country voluntarily: Being deported carries with it an almost certain ban on returning for several years, if not indefinitely.

Depending on your answers to the above questions, I will be putting you in touch with some people who give advice voluntarily and are also 'permitted' to do so.
I will also be pointing you in the direction of certain paragraphs on the government website which will help, or at the very least be informative.

Disclaimer:
I will not be giving you legal advice.
I insist that you and your friend verify everything I tell you by seeking a second opinion and doing some of your own research.

We can communicate by pm if some of the questions are too uncomfortable to answer on this forum, but it would be very useful for others here if they could follow your progress.

All the best,
Tien An.

PS Please ignore, for this thread only, my signature below: This is no laughing matter.

Damn! I've just re-read your post and realize you're in Eire. I hope I can still help you
Come on you Irishmen/women: Get over your hangovers from last night and help out here!

[john doe]

thank you Tien An.

Please find answers to your questions:

1. Where is the mother from? (Obviously outside the EU, but which country? It's important.)

A. she is from usa has a usa passport but was living in costa rica for some years prior to coming to eire

2. Under what circumstances did the mother come to the UK? (Student visa, visitor's visa...?)

A. She came on a visitors visa, she thinks. not sure it was even a visa. her stay was valid for 3 months some time ago. over a year..

3. Why did Social Services take the child into care?

A. Owing to mis understanding the child was found wandering the shopping centre at midday. mother thought she was with me, and i thought she was with mother. so police were called by a well meaning passer by and child was taken into care. stayed in care for some 4 months.

4. Is the father of the child a UK citizen, and crucial point; is his name on the Birth Certificate?

A. The father is costa rican and yes he is on passport.

And the child is now 8 years old.

I hope these answer your questions

John

P.s. It is my understanding you are merely sharing your experiences with me and It is also my understanding you are not offering me legal advice. And I thank you very much indeed for your time and entertaining information.

[tien an]

USofA, eh?

The first question I think you should be finding the answer to is whether Eire is a Common Law jurisdiction.
(Wow, that potentially changes everything!).

FOUR MONTHS?!
How on earth did they justify keeping mother and daughter apart for that long?

Your answer to question 2 is intriguing in the extreme.
Your friend must have some recognizable stamp or visa in her passport?

Try and find out if Costa Rica, too, is a Common Law jurisdiction.

It really is crucial that you find out whether the father's name is on the Birth Certificate, not the Passport. It may be possible to add a child to a Costa Rican passport without a birth certificate.

Is the child American or Costa Rican?

I'm appealing to the Irish here to find out the names of organizations that (voluntarily) provide legal support for foreigners.
They will be students of International / Immigration law, often with origins outside Europe and are usually attached to the government or are linked to the government website.
It's the OISC in the UK. (Office of the Immigration Services Commissioner).

I'm afraid I can't "put you in touch" with anyone in the UK (no jurisdiction) or Eire (don't know), but you have to find the right organization in Eire.

Let's see how far we get with that.

[john doe]

hi again. i found out ireland is common law and costa rica is civil law. she is usa citizen and her child has new us passport. im finding out if father is on the birth cert, to my knowledge i believe he is on the birth cert.

what does ireland being common law mean?

thanks again

John

[tien an]

hi again. i found out ireland is common law and costa rica is civil law. she is usa citizen and her child has new us passport. im finding out if father is on the birth cert, to my knowledge i believe he is on the birth cert.

Good.



what does ireland being common law mean?


How did you find out if Eire was a Common Law jurisdiction without understanding what common law means?
Never mind; here goes with my interpretation:

Common Law is the law of common knowledge, common sense:
Cause no other harm, injury or loss.
Do not defraud or breach the peace.

That basically covers every sort of mischief you might get up to, when you think about it...petty theft, common assault, actual bodily harm, grievous bodily harm, manslaughter, murder, to name but a few.

However, at 80mph when the speed limit is70mph...on the motorway, in good conditions, in light traffc, in a car that's in good condition...is pretty hard to define at common law because...you're not causing harm, injury, loss, fraud or breach of the peace.
What you're doing, according to statute law...
(a Bill passed through some governmental process where there are representatives of the people in various constituencies, or areas, of the country, and then agreed upon by another, superior authority, before being given the force of law)
...is breaking the rules according to (ultimately) the 'Law Society', whom you may or may not have heard.
It's OK...they control your life.
(I mean it; there are literally thousands of statutes, compared to the few common laws.)

Back to the point:
Common Law is based on what I've stated above, and judges' decisions based on the verdict of a dozen (or so) of your peers, or equals, over time.
This concept is also know as Case Law, or Jurisprudence. (Fr> consideration given for the law...my translation)

I think you can see that Common Law is a fair system, whereas Statutes often seem to have a fine attached...had you noticed?
Statutes are a way of getting money into the government's bank account, so that they can pay for things they promised they were going to pay for with other taxes...but that's another topic...

When you say Costa Rica is a civil law jurisdiction, this means that statute law is in force there.

BTW, where do you come from?

Heavenly Peace.

[honey_beez]

Get an immigration lawyer involved.

It's costly but at least you will get adequete advice.

Immigration is not something you play with specially when it comes to those 2 Islands with the names of the UK and Ireland.

People here on DI will not be able to help you sufficiently and your situation is delicate, best to get 'Professional' advice. Just for your safety, the mother and her child.

Also why did she not cross the border back into the UK get a stamp there and then take the Ferry back to Ireland that would have helped her at least get a visitors visa allowing her enough time to settle all formalities? And why do people overstay, I honestly don't get that, obey the law in place and do what have to do but do it with savvy.

http://www.workpermit.com/ireland/ireland.htm

http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/WP07000002

[tien an]

Get an immigration lawyer involved.

It's costly but at least you will get adequete advice.


http://www.workpermit.com/ireland/ireland.htm

http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/WP07000002

There you go, john doe, good advice.

[john doe]

thanks guys. she has been told she has to visit with the police tomorrow, she came in on a visitors visa, 3 months, passport stamped to that effect. google told me ireland was a common law jurisdiction. lol.

i get the gist of the difference between law and acts. thanks to rob menard and you guys on here. Im from ireland. its a fantastic subject and as soon i get mary crofts book i will be learning more about this.

question is is she obliged to attend that nice officers invitation? whats the best approach. she is fundless. or at least not enough to pay a member of the law society their extortionate fees.

all she wants is to stay until her child finishes her academic year and then we both will be in a position to leave.and she feels she needs to see if those lovely people in social services have a case to answer regarding the mis treatment of her precious child. I am in college myself and am tied up that way. but as soon as i can finish we are off. this place is a sinking ship. and i aint swimmin!!

i suppose her best bet for now is to contact another solicitor (the last one would not take her case on) and hope for the best.

shes been through a lot let me tell you. and it aint over yet.

Guys keep any information coming please.

I will update you all for educational purposes of course.

John

[honey_beez]

thanks guys. she has been told she has to visit with the police tomorrow, she came in on a visitors visa, 3 months, passport stamped to that effect. google told me ireland was a common law jurisdiction. lol.

i get the gist of the difference between law and acts. thanks to rob menard and you guys on here. Im from ireland. its a fantastic subject and as soon i get mary crofts book i will be learning more about this.

question is is she obliged to attend that nice officers invitation? whats the best approach. she is fundless. or at least not enough to pay a member of the law society their extortionate fees.

all she wants is to stay until her child finishes her academic year and then we both will be in a position to leave.and she feels she needs to see if those lovely people in social services have a case to answer regarding the mis treatment of her precious child. I am in college myself and am tied up that way. but as soon as i can finish we are off. this place is a sinking ship. and i aint swimmin!!

i suppose her best bet for now is to contact another solicitor (the last one would not take her case on) and hope for the best.

shes been through a lot let me tell you. and it aint over yet.

Guys keep any information coming please.

I will update you all for educational purposes of course.

John

Are you able to sponser her and prove that you can? Because that can work but make sure.

She will have to adhere to the invitation. Best you go with her just incase.

Immigration is not something you take lightly, there is a young soul involved so best play your cards right. Dealing with them is draining.


:) Take care.

[tien an]

Hi John,

Short of going down the Freeman route, I don't think you have much choice.
I repeat that it would be a good idea for your friend to leave the country of her own volition: Having a ban on returning would be difficult, don't you think?

If your friend does go down that route, I fear the authorities will insist that they were dealing with her on the matter before she decided to give them notice of her status via a NOUI & CoR.

There are voluntary organizations that will help. (refer to my previous posts).
Look for them, please.

I'm really surprised only one other interested in the Freeman concept has had anything to say...

Best of Luck.
Tien An.

[john doe]

thanks again guys. We have located a free legal aid center and will contact first thing, at least to see if a lawyer attending with her tomorrow would be of any help.

I see where the freeman route may not be of much benefit in this case.

I cant help wondering tho where is their authority over her? that one gets me. and for the very same reason as the child was returned. THEY HAD NO AUTHORITY over the child.

Heres hoping they will be nice, allow her two months stay and thatll be the end of it.

I too am surprised at the lack of response to these questions.

I am grateful for the responses i did get as they were very helpful in explaining how we could use or not the freeman route.

Keep ya'll posted on developements.

John

[the worm that turned]

thanks again guys. We have located a free legal aid center and will contact first thing, at least to see if a lawyer attending with her tomorrow would be of any help.

I see where the freeman route may not be of much benefit in this case.

I cant help wondering tho where is their authority over her? that one gets me. and for the very same reason as the child was returned. THEY HAD NO AUTHORITY over the child.

Heres hoping they will be nice, allow her two months stay and thatll be the end of it.

I too am surprised at the lack of response to these questions.

I am grateful for the responses i did get as they were very helpful in explaining how we could use or not the freeman route.

Keep ya'll posted on developements.

John

I haven't provided any advice because I really don't want to provide you with incorrect information on such a sensitive matter. I do wish your friend the best of luck though and have been following with interest.

Good luck. - TWTT

[texdallas]

What an interesting little thread this is would merge very nice with this one.

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=73985

From reading this I see she only wanted a couple of months extra stay beyond her entitlement? But you guys are still here!

Tell her pack up John you guys have lost all your doing now is grasping at straws and the child is in the middle.

Shame on both of you.

[Ian2day]

Missed this one before



An Irish passport is one of the most sought-after travel documents in the world.
I have both Irish and English citizenship and have always used the Irish passport in preference.
It's kitschy but true; being Irish is seen as being more, well, likeable or something.
The easiest way to get an Irish passport of course is to be born in Ireland.
But, if you drew the short straw on that one, you're going to need an Irish parent or an Irish grandparent.
If you have an Irish great-grandparent you need to satisfy the following requirements;
There are two circumstances under which a great-grandchild is eligible to apply for Irish citizenship by descent:


If the parent (the grandchild of the Irish born person) registered before the great-grandchild was born; or
If the parent (the grandchild of the Irish born person) registered before the 30th June 1986 and the great-grandchild was born after 17 July 1956.

The Irish Consulate in New York explained that the parent would need to be registered in the "Foreign Birth Register" which is held at the Consulate, effectively a listing of those of Irish citizens born abroad who are entitled to Irish citizenship who have their births "registered."
Meanwhile, Ireland’s Prime Minister Brian Cowen (http://www.irishcentral.com/topics?topic=Brian+Cowen) has indicated that he would favor relaxing naturalization laws and allowing Americans whose nearest Irish relative is a great-grandparent to claim citizenship, provided they have spent some time either working or studying in Ireland. So watch this space.
A practical use of an Irish passport is that you will be entitled to work and travel freely in any of the 27 countries in the European Union (http://www.irishcentral.com/topics?topic=European+Union).
You won’t need a work permit for this – and once you have worked in a European Union (http://www.irishcentral.com/topics?topic=European+Union) county for a certain length of time, you will be entitled to unemployment compensation, health care and pension rights.
How else then can you get an Irish passport? Getting a passport is really the easy part – it’s getting Irish citizenship that takes a little time.
Born in Ireland
To get an Irish passport, you must first become an Irish citizen. Fortunately, Americans can hold dual citizenship, as can Irish, so there’s no conflict there.
Let’s look at the scenarios that allow you to claim Irish citizenship.
Anyone born in Ireland before January 1, 2005 is an Irish citizen. After that date, it is not automatic, and the citizenship and residency history of both parents is taken into account.
Marriage to Irish citizen

You are also entitled to Irish citizenship if you are married to an Irish citizen.
To claim citizenship by marriage, you must meet the following conditions: you must be married to an Irish citizen for at least three years; you must have had one year of "continuous residence" on the island of Ireland immediately before the date of your application; and finally, you must have been living on the island of Ireland for at least two of the four years before that year of continuous residence.

If you were born outside of Ireland and either your mother or father (or both) was an Irish citizen at the time of your birth, then you are entitled to Irish citizenship.
Permanent residency
If you have been a permanent resident in Ireland, you can try to become a citizen through naturalization. You will need to have lived permanently in Ireland for the previous five years, be over 18 and not have a criminal record.
But let’s face it – living in Ireland for five years is a lot of effort just to get that Irish passport. A much better way to get an Irish passport is to have at least one Irish grandparent. And by Irish, we mean an Irish grandparent who was or is an Irish citizen.
Irish grandparents

What to do next?
After getting an Irish grandparent, the next thing to do is to call an Irish consulate and ask them to send you an application form. There are Irish consulates in most of the major U.S (http://www.irishcentral.com/topics?topic=United+States) cities. They should also be able to advise you on getting the right documentation in order for your application.
You’ll need a copy of your grandparent’s birth certificate from Ireland. If you don’t have a copy you can get one from the General Registry Office (http://www.irishcentral.com/topics?topic=General+Registry+Office) in Dublin (http://www.irishcentral.com/topics?topic=Dublin). (Click here (http://www.groireland.ie/)to go to their Web site.)
You will also need: Your grandparent's certificate of marriage; your parents' birth and marriage certificates; and an original death certificate for any of these relatives who have passed away. If the grandparent is deceased, you’ll need to show a certified copy of their death certificate, and if alive, a current official I.D. (such as a driver’s license or passport.)
To access the Irish documents, it will help you to know as much information about where and when your Irish grandparent was born, which may involve some genealogy research.
If one of your parents is Irish, and you would like to get an Irish passport, the process is easier. You need: their marriage certificate; a current official I.D; a copy of their death certificate if your Irish parent has passed away, a full long-form birth certificate of your Irish parent, showing your grandparents’ names, places of birth and ages at birth.
You will also need: your own long-form birth certificate; documentation to show that you have changed your name, such as a marriage certificate, if this has happened; a notarized copy of your current passport, and at least three other notarized copies of proofs of identity, one of which must be a photo I.D; a bank/utility statement with your current address; and two signed passport photos.
Once you have established your Irish citizenship – which can take up to 18 months to process – you can apply for an Irish passport. This can take up to six weeks to process and you can do this through your nearest Irish consulate.


And then, you too can sashay through the EU passport section at Dublin airport after the overnight flight from New York!

http://www.irishcentral.com/news/How-to-get-an-Irish-passport-41823992.html