Ultimate and Absolute Proof Apollo Never Happened.

[endlessvista]

Case Closed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vENebR5hsRs&feature=related

There is no passing through the Van Allen Belt, not now and certainly not in the 1960s and early 70's.

I am not calling all the people in NASA liars and frauds. Indeed it would only be a relatively small number and they could of easily of had death threats on them and their familys to keep quite.

NASA has done some wonderful work over the decades for which I will forever praise them. The interplanetary missions of Voyager and Mariner along with the fantastic Hubble telescope images remain magnificent. Most of the people who work in NASA are decent and honest folk and not scammers.

But there is also a pretty evil side to the organisation which is a den of Freemasons and Nazis who are vile and devious beyond words.

"Explorer I ran into a belt of intense radiation at 600 miles. The satellite carries a Geiger tube to count cosmic rays. At 684 miles the tubes registered 140 counts per second. The Geiger tubes had been knocked out temporarily by radiation too intense for them to handle. The satellites passed through radiation equivalent to 35,000 counts per second. The belt may extend outward for 8,000 miles. Lead shielding would reduce the dose to a supportable level." Time Magazine May 12, 1958

[void]

"It's gotten out of control. It's too big!!" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2rSz6gLPN4)

[ex sheep]

So that rules out aliens ever being here, or ever coming here. :)

[nectars]

"It's gotten out of control. It's too big!!" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2rSz6gLPN4)

lol, nice clip dude :D

[runciter]

i've just unsubscribed from the armstrong thread and you're strarting another one?

so this case is closed, while 9/11 is still open for you, and anyway you don't give a fuck.

[endlessvista]

i've just unsubscribed from the armstrong thread and you're strarting another one?

so this case is closed, while 9/11 is still open for you, and anyway you don't give a fuck.

You have hostility issues dude. Have a cup of tea and chill out and listen to this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxjpYHhfRyI&feature=channel_page


Peace.

[white knight]

Case Closed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vENebR5hsRs&feature=related

There is no passing through the Van Allen Belt, not now and certainly not in the 1960s and early 70's.

I am not calling all the people in NASA liars and frauds. Indeed it would only be a relatively small number and they could of easily of had death threats on them and their familys to keep quite.

NASA has done some wonderful work over the decades for which I will forever praise them. The interplanetary missions of Voyager and Mariner along with the fantastic Hubble telescope images remain magnificent. Most of the people who work in NASA are decent and honest folk and not scammers.

But there is also a pretty evil side to the organisation which is a den of Freemasons and Nazis who are vile and devious beyond words.

The Apollo missions where a fraud.

Apparently, the Russian's and American's jointly went to the Moon in the late 50's and set up bases there. They also set up bases on Mars in the early 70's.

Of course they used alien technology to get there, not the sheet metal cubicals we see in the so-called "moon footage".

Keep this in mind with Government's in general...they think one thing, say another thing and do another thing altogether!

[runciter]

You have hostility issues dude. Have a cup of tea and chill out.

Peace.

are you going to start a new thread for every explosive clip you find?

[dreamweaver]

This thread breaks the Trade Descriptions Act. It is not "ultimate and absolute proof" at all.

How many times do you have to be told that the Van Allen belts are belts of radiation and that trajectories can be plotted to minimise the exposure?

The following is the best analysis of the Van Allen belt question going - all the maths and facts and references are there for all to see and check for themselves. I couldn't let that ridiculous title go unchallenged, although I don't plan on staying around. It has been started in General for trolling purposes and I don't plan to feed it.


Question:

Is it impossible to travel to the Moon, because of the Van Allen Belt?

From: Peter Wingerter
Grade: None given
City: None given State/Prov.: None given Country: None given
Area: Astronomy
Message ID Number: 958408099.As

Is there any truth to the rumor? Is it impossible to travel to the moon, because of the Van Allen Belt?

Peter Wingerter

Answer:

This is an especially interesting question, though maybe more about psychology and epistemology than about astronomy or physics. Nevertheless, the same question comes up again and again, in one form or another, so it really is very important.

It has a number of possible answers:

1. The Apollo spacecraft passed through the Van Allen belt quite quickly, so that in the short time they were exposed, the astronauts did not receive a dose of radiation considered dangerous, at least not compared to the inevitable other risks in the mission.

This is the straightforward, scientific answer. It is correct, to the best of my knowledge and belief.

2. It has to be possible to go to the Moon, because we who are old enough all saw them on TV; a million of us (me included, for Apollo 11) saw the actual launch; a few of us (me included, for Apollo 8) saw the Trans-Lunar Injection burn, from low-Earth orbit to trans-lunar trajectory in the dark sky over Hawaii; and how could anyone fake all that?!

This is a simple common-sense answer. Also correct, I think.

3. There was a monstrous government conspiracy, and the whole thing was faked. I am part of that conspiracy, so you cannot trust my answer.

I know for a fact this one is false -- but how can you know that?!

4. There was a monstrous conspiracy, and the whole thing was faked. I was deceived too, so you cannot trust my answer.

I am as sure as I think one can reasonably be about anything that this one is false, but of course how could I possibly be absolutely certain, in principle?

5. You can't know anything for sure that you have not completely verified yourself, all you can do is take the word of people you trust. So who do you trust?

There is a lot of truth in this one, especially in principle. In practice, we can usually do quite a bit better, especially in the sciences; but the issue is not silly or unimportant, even so. The head of the government of South Africa, for example, is in serious doubt about whether the human immunodeficiency virus, HIV, causes AIDS, because he is (probably sincerely, I guess) in doubt about whom to trust; although there seems to be no serious scientific controversy about the issue. Millions of lives could be at stake as a result.

Now let's take a little more substantial look at my first answer. The idea is to outline the basic facts of the case, and give you the materials you need to verify my statements, to whatever level of detail you wish. This is the traditional scientific way of answering a question. There are three basic issues.

1. What is the actual amount and nature of radiation present in the Van Allen Belts?
2. How long would an astronaut be exposed to that radiation while passing through the belts on a lunar trajectory, and what dose of radiation would he receive?
3. What would be the likely health effects?

Regarding the Van Allen belts, and the nature of the radiation in them, they are doughnut-shaped regions where charged particles, both protons and electrons, are trapped in the Earth's magnetic field. The number of particles encountered (flux is the technical jargon, to impress your friends!) depends on the energy of the particles; in general, the flux of high-energy particles is less, and the flux of low-energy particles is more. Very low energy particles cannot penetrate the skin of a spacecraft, nor even the skin of an astronaut. Very roughly speaking, electrons below about 1 million electron volts (MeV) are unlikely to be dangerous, and protons below 10 MeV are also not sufficiently penetrating to be a concern. The actual fluxes encountered in the Van Allen belts is a matter of great commercial importance, as communications satellites operate in the outer region, and their electronics, and hence lifetimes, are strongly affected by the radiation environment. Thus billions of dollars are at stake, never mind the Moon! The standard database on the fluxes in the belt are the models for the trapped radiation environment, AP8 for protons, and AE8 for electrons, maintained by the National Space Sciences Data Center at NASA's Goddard Spaceflight Center. Barth (1999) gives a summary which indicates that electrons with energies over 1 MeV have a flux above a million per square centimeter per second from 1-6 earth radii (about 6,300 - 38,000 km), and protons over 10 MeV have a flux above one hundred thousand per square centimeter per second from about 1.5-2.5 Earth radii (9,500 km - 16,000 km).

Then what would be the radiation dose due to such fluxes, for the amount of time an astronaut crew would be exposed? This was in fact a serious concern at the time that the Apollo program was first proposed. Unfortunately I have not located quantitative information in the time available, but my recollection is that the dose was roughly 2 rem (= 20 mSv, milli-Sievert).

The time the astronauts would be exposed is fairly easy to calculate from basic orbital mechanics, though probably not something most students below college level could easily verify. You have perhaps heard that to escape from Earth requires a speed of about 7 miles per second, which is about 11.2 km per sec. At that speed, it would require less than an hour to pass outside the main part of the belts at around 38,000 km altitude. However it is a little more complicated than that, because as soon as the rocket motor stops burning, the spacecraft immediately begins to slow down due to the attraction of gravity. At 38,000 km altitude it would actually be moving only about 4.6 km per sec, not 11.2. If we just take the geometric average of these two, 7.2 km per sec, we will not be too far off, and get about 1.5 hours for the time to pass beyond 38,000 km.

Unfortunately calculating the average radiation dose received by an astronaut in the belts is quite intricate in practice, though not too hard in principle. One must add up the effects of all kinds of particles, of all energies. For each kind of particle (electrons and protons in this situation) you have to take account of the shielding due to the Apollo spacecraft and the astronaut space suits. Here are some approximate values for the ranges of protons and electrons in aluminum:

Range in Aluminum [cm] Energy
[MeV] electrons protons
1 0.15 ~ nil
3 0.56 ~ nil
10 1.85 0.06
30 no flux 0.37
100 no flux 3.7

For electrons, the AE8 electron data shows negligible flux (< 1 electron per square cm per sec) over E=7 MeV at any altitude. The AP8 proton compilations indicates peak fluxes outside the spacecraft up to about 20,000 protons per square cm per sec above 100 MeV in a region around 1.7 Earth radii, but because the region is narrow, passage takes only about 5 min. Nevertheless, these appear to be the principal hazard.

These numbers seem generally consistent with the ~2 rem doses I recall. If every gram of a person's body absorbed 600,000 protons with energy 100 MeV, completely stopping them, the dose would be about 50 mSv. Assuming a typical thickness of 10 cm for a human and no shielding by the spacecraft gives a dose of something like 50 mSv in 300 sec due to protons in the most intense part of the belt.

For comparison, the US recommended limit of exposure for radiation workers is 50 mSv per year, based on the danger of causing cancer. The corresponding recommended limits in Britain and Cern are 15 mSv. For acute doses, the whole-body exposure lethal within 30 days to 50% of untreated cases is about 2.5-3.0 Gy (Gray) or 250-300 rad; in such circumstances, 1 rad is equivalent to 1 rem.

So the effect of such a dose, in the end, would not be enough to make the astronauts even noticeably ill. The low-level exposure could possibly cause cancer in the long term. I do not know exactly what the odds on that would be, I believe on the order of 1 in 1000 per astronaut exposed, probably some years after the trip. Of course, with nine trips, and a total of 3 X 9 = 27 astronauts (except for a few, like Jim Lovell, who went more than once) you would expect probably 5 or 10 cancers eventually in any case, even without any exposure, so it is not possible to know which if any might have been caused by the trips.

Much of this material can be found in the 1999 "Review of Particle Properties", (see below) in the sections on "Atomic and nuclear properties of materials", on "Radioactivity and radiation protection", and on "Passage of particles through matter".

By this point I have no doubt told you more than you really wanted to know about the Van Allen belt and the Apollo radiation problem! Nevertheless, I have barely scratched the surface, and waved my hands a bit, to make it seem likely that I'm not full of baloney. But in the end you always have to either do it all yourself, or trust a stranger completely, or try to find some path in between: which means understanding a little science, so you can judge for yourself if my arguments make any sense at all, check a little, think about it, maybe do a bit of research on your own from the references if you are interested. The only alternative is to trust no one and do everything, which is simply impossible for anyone; or really give up all your judgements to other people, who may be saints or crooks, wise or insane. I hope you will try to find the possible but not perfect in-between path by learning some science. It is hard, but it is fun and interesting, and it gives you your own power to think and evaluate for yourself, albeit in a limited and imperfect way.

REFERENCES:

Health Physics Society, professional society concerned with radiation effects and radiation protection.

University of Michigan Radiation and Health Physics page. Good general reference on radiation in the environment, including many links about radiation in space.

"Radiation Hazards to Crews of Interplanetary Missions: Biological Issues and Research Strategies", by the Task Group on the Biological Effects of Space Radiation, Space Studies Board, Commission on Physical Sciences, Mathematics, and Applications of the National Research Council; National Academy Press, 1997. About radiation hazards of possible long-term future missions in space.

"Health Effects of Ionizing Radiation in Manned Space Activities" http://radefx.bcm.tmc.edu/ionizing/publications/space.htm containing an extensive bibliography on the subject.

Standard reference for the Van Allen Belts is AP8 & AE8 Models for the Trapped Radiation Environment, NSSDC, GSFC.

"The Radiation Environment", by Janet Barth of GSFC, 1999; available at http://radhome.gsfc.nasa.gov/radhome/papers/apl_922.pdf.

"An Annotated Bibliography of the Apollo Program" Compiled by Roger D. Launius and J.D. Hunley Published as Monographs in Aerospace History, Number 2, July 1994. http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/History/Apollobib/contents.html

Berry, C.A. "Summary of Medical Experience in the Apollo 7 Through 11 Manned Spaceflights." Aerospace Medicine. 41 (May 1970): 500-19. Described as, "This is a sophisticated scientific paper describing the results of biomedical experiments during the early history of Apollo. It is especially helpful in discussing the problem of radiation and other effect on the astronauts during the missions to the Moon of Apollo 8 and 11."

1999 Edition of the "Review of Particle Properties" compiled by the Particle Data Group at Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory, and collaborators. "http://www-pdg.lbl.gov/1999/contents_sports.html"

Summary of paper AIAA-1969-19, RADIATION PLAN FOR THE APOLLO LUNAR MISSION (1969); complete paper available from the AIAA.

Note: some links and references updated 6/4/2007.

[tampaman]

Case Closed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vENebR5hsRs&feature=related

There is no passing through the Van Allen Belt, not now and certainly not in the 1960s and early 70's.

I am not calling all the people in NASA liars and frauds. Indeed it would only be a relatively small number and they could of easily of had death threats on them and their familys to keep quite.

NASA has done some wonderful work over the decades for which I will forever praise them. The interplanetary missions of Voyager and Mariner along with the fantastic Hubble telescope images remain magnificent. Most of the people who work in NASA are decent and honest folk and not scammers.

But there is also a pretty evil side to the organisation which is a den of Freemasons and Nazis who are vile and devious beyond words.

Its your new found friend Bart Sibrel again. I would watch this friend he has a habit of pissing up peoples backs and telling them it raining.

If you have watched the video i posted of how Sibrel fakes evidence and lies you would have or should have treated this with the upmost speculation.

"The recent Fox TV show, which I saw, is an ingenious and entertaining assemblage of nonsense. The claim that radiation exposure during the Apollo missions would have been fatal to the astronauts is only one example of such nonsense." -- Dr. James Van Allen

What Sibrel is doing here is over playing the situation to people who don't know anything about it. Yes the STS mission did discover that radiation is slightly higher than previously thought. This does not mean its impassable and the resulting action from this discovery was more shielding was fitted in the ISS crew sleeping quarters.

The shooting stars inside your head, some of the Apollo astronauts mentioned them (how could they have known lol). As a side note check out how many former Apollo astronauts have cataracts due to radiation exposure.

The STS and ISS astronauts spend 30 minutes of each 90 minute orbit traveling in the belts (SAMA). Some of the space walks last 8 odd hours. With multiple space walks, flights and long duration stays think about how long some of these people spend in the belts outside the craft let alone inside!

Any talk of lead is bollocks fed to people who don't understand radiation or the shileding of radiation. Lead would be the worst thing to use, check out bremsstrahlung (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bremsstrahlung)

Whats the atomic number of lead lol.

Its quite astonishing that you took the word of Sibrel on a youtube video and an inaccurate newspaper report and claimed case closed.

If it says Bart Sibrel on the tin your garenteeded its bullshit inside.

[debs67gb]

all that really bothered me with the "moon landing" video was who the hell was left behind to film em blasting off and filming it as it went up?

[reptilianshapeshifter]

Its your new found friend Bart Sibrel again..

haha the forums very own authority on the moon landing is back :D

[tampaman]

all that really bothered me with the "moon landing" video was who the hell was left behind to film em blasting off and filming it as it went up?


Remote control from Huston.

[debs67gb]

thanks tampa :)

[endlessvista]

thanks tampa :)

Really? This poster shows up out of the blue and has no other interest in any other subject on this board except NASA moon landings and his entire argument is based on Bart Sibrel and nothing else.

He is utterly obsessed with Bart Sibrel to the point were he is imposing his own obsession on me as if every single shread of evidence against Apollo starts and ends with Bart Sibrel. You do not find this odd?

What next, the shuttle movie of the sparks was CGI was created by Bart Sibrel and they were in fact a packet of extra strong mints the Shuttle astronauts opened and were flying around the cockpit of the shuttle as they celebrated pasing through the Van Allen Belt?

What next? The JFK assination never happened because Kevin Costner is a crap actor?

I had no idea that one person's work being discredited (and I know nothing about Bart Sibrel to say it is or isn't) automatically means everything else is. Isn't this how the anti David Icke's constantly use the Reptilians to discredit the rest of his work and claim it is ALL bullshit?

Classic psy-ops by the way. You see the Global Wamring crowd doing the same. They find one scientists who made a mistake and this means all cynicism towards Global Warming is bullshit.

Again, do you not find it strange that tampaman just suddenly appeared on the Apollo thread out of the blue? You know that paid counter propagandists are hired to work these boards? Al Gore has an army of them working 24 on net message boards, so do Common Purpose, so why not NASA?

They all in every case follow the same modus operandi of tampaman. Come in out of the blue, find one flaw in the theroy and the use it to "prove" every other pice of evidence is bullshit. Demonising the poster who made the original claim without going through all the evidence present is a classic tactic.

The mountain ranges of evidence against the Apollo moonlandings is so vast and from a multitude of sources and exhibits than the only way the Apollogists can try and shut the whole thing down is finding the odd flaw here and there and trying to get people like you to beleive it is the whole story and nothing else.

If anything the sudden arrival of highly specified "debunkers" on any board out of the blue, while targetting a specfic claim screams MOLE to me loud and clear. If it was such "bullshit" they simply wouldn't bother...

[tampaman]

First off let me say that you are the one who posts Sibrels videos not me. "Sibrels" work is mostly based on his predecessors stuff like Kaysing, Percy, Collier and Rene which was all bullshit. So i cant be blamed for discrediting Sibrel if that's the evidence you are posting. Post what you like it will all be discredited.

As for turning up out of the blue well how else do you do it? So far Ive only posted on 1 subject so what? And as for being a paid agent of some kind all i can do is laugh.

You clearly didn't understand my post and for that I'm sorry. Perhaps i could have worded it better. I'm not saying the shooting stars you see with the eyes closed are not real they are , they were reported by Apollo crew members. What that video attempts to do is mislead people into thinking that means the belts cannot be transversed which is crap.

You say I'm picking on the odd flaw here and there but I'm only commenting on what you post so you are doing the picking not me.

So if your willing to leave the personal attacks out then I'm fine to carry on. If you don't want me to reply to posts about Sibrel don't make them.

[debs67gb]

fookin hell dont quote me when yer gonna have an altercation thanks :)

[endlessvista]

First off let me say that you are the one who posts Sibrels videos not me. "Sibrels" work is mostly based on his predecessors stuff like Kaysing, Percy, Collier and Rene which was all bullshit. So i cant be blamed for discrediting Sibrel if that's the evidence you are posting. Post what you like it will all be discredited.

As for turning up out of the blue well how else do you do it? So far Ive only posted on 1 subject so what? And as for being a paid agent of some kind all i can do is laugh.

You clearly didn't understand my post and for that I'm sorry. Perhaps i could have worded it better. I'm not saying the shooting stars you see with the eyes closed are not real they are , they were reported by Apollo crew members. What that video attempts to do is mislead people into thinking that means the belts cannot be transversed which is crap.

You say I'm picking on the odd flaw here and there but I'm only commenting on what you post so you are doing the picking not me.

So if your willing to leave the personal attacks out then I'm fine to carry on. If you don't want me to reply to posts about Sibrel don't make them.

Fair enough. I am currently reading up on the people you mentioned and I will check it out before replying.

To be fair, and I am not just saying this for conspiricy sake but all the "debunking" stuff I have followed back in 90% percent of the examples all goes right back to NASA. Very little if any can be traced to objective people not either citing NASA documents, or paid NASA operatives posing as debunkers.

The issue for me that the NASA apollogists (from my experience) ALWAYS start their debunking with "oh not that retard again!" and so on and this if followed up with NASA documentaiton which is just as likely to be propaganda as fact. When you look at the "retard" in quesiton they are more often than far more technically qualified, or in the case of Dr Brian O'Leary people who worked on the apollo programme itself. Same MO as the Global Warming debunkers.

[hagbard_celine]

The best thing about the Moonhoax theory is not whether it is true or not... it's that it always stimulates such dynamic discourse. Marathon threads just pop out of the vacuum as soon as it's mentioned!:D:cool:

I don't believe the Apollo programme ever landed anyone on the moon, at least not at the time and using the methods and personnel history tells us it did. But I've been through all that so many times i'm just going to lurk until some new information comes up. Enjoy yourselves, guys!:cool:

[tampaman]

Fair enough. I am currently reading up on the people you mentioned and I will check it out before replying.

To be fair, and I am not just saying this for conspiricy sake but all the "debunking" stuff I have followed back in 90% percent of the examples all goes right back to NASA. Very little if any can be traced to objective people not either citing NASA documents, or paid NASA operatives posing as debunkers.

The issue for me that the NASA apollogists (from my experience) ALWAYS start their debunking with "oh not that retard again!" and so on and this if followed up with NASA documentaiton which is just as likely to be propaganda as fact. When you look at the "retard" in quesiton they are more often than far more technically qualified, or in the case of Dr Brian O'Leary people who worked on the apollo programme itself. Same MO as the Global Warming debunkers.

Well if you don't like or trust NASA data check out some Russian stuff.

Brian O'Leary does not think the Apollo missions were a hoax. You can contact him by email drbrianoleary@gmail.com or post P.O.Box 258, Loja, Ecuador and ask him.


Astronaut Brian O'Leary is not entirely convinced that the Apollo program succeeded.

"Somehow I may have given the impression that Apollo may have been hoaxed," says Dr. O'Leary.

O'Leary was initially skeptical when his astronaut friends who continued in the program and flew the lunar landing missions gave abbreviated answers to his questions. But he is quick to add that they may just have been sick of being asked so many questions upon their return.

Brian O'Leary once said he thought NASA might have faked some of the photographs. [David Percy]

Dr. O'Leary gave a hypothetical situation in which he says it might be "remotely possible" that NASA would have used studio photography to fill in for film lost or damaged during a mission. But he does not believe this actually happened.

David Percy says he believes only that the record was falsified, and that astronauts may have in fact landed on the moon. O'Leary's hypothetical scenario is not compatible with Percy's contention. Percy contends that surrogate astronauts we never knew about were sent on missions to the moon, and that the Apollo photographs and video we have today are intentional fabrications describing events that never occurred, and that no public record exists of any actual missions.

O'Leary's hypothetical situation merely provides a possible way for NASA to have recovered from the minor embarrassment of having performed a mission but losing or destroying through carelessness the documentation of that event. The motives are dissimilar enough to discount O'Leary's off-hand remark as support for Percy's hypothesis.

Nowadays O'Leary isn't so speculative. He's convinced the Apollo program landed on the moon as NASA claims. "It was real," he says succinctly. "Apollo happened."

But if an astronaut isn't fully convinced, and he worked right alongside Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin, doesn't that mean there's probably something to the conspiracy theory?

Dr. O'Leary considers his working relationship with the more notable astronauts strong evidence that the landings were not hoaxed. "I knew the astronauts and thought they wouldn't lie, even if there were a conspiracy."

O'Leary's prominence in the space program is a two-edged sword for conspiracists. His work as an astronaut certainly places him at the highest level of knowledge. No matter how few people one believes might have known of a conspiracy, it would have been impossible to fool the astronauts who were to have flown the missions. So on the one hand it gives conspiracists a lot of credibility to be able to interview a real live astronaut. But on the other hand it casts serious doubt on the conspiracy theory. O'Leary doesn't have any first hand knowledge of a conspiracy to falsify the lunar landings. And he believes that if there had been one, he would have known about it. If he hadn't, he believes the other astronauts (who would certainly have known) would have told him.

(Quotations taken from a letter from Brian O'Leary, 29 August 2001, used with his permission.)

As for the money makers being more qualified i disagree. Only Percy who is a pro photographer has any training in what he talks about and he lies like a bastard and that can be proved. Kaysing was a librarian, Rene a builder and Sibrel a documentary film maker who always lies about his credits.

[endlessvista]

Well if you don't like or trust NASA data check out some Russian stuff.

Problem with that is we all know the Cold War was essentially a piece of theater created for the great unwashed to worry about, while the USA and Soviets (both Illuminati) were doing everything from secret meetings to sharing technology. The Russian manned space programme in the early days has now been shown to be a complete disaster which left a trail of dead cosmonauts in its wake before Yuri's success. The USA knew this at the time and never blew the whistle on them. There was a far more symbiotic relationship between the West and Soviets at the highest level and the "Cold War" was a bit of stage craft to fool the masses and keep them controlled.

You are essentially asking me to chose between Moria Hindley and Ian Brady when asking me to chose between US and Soviets for credibility and honesty.

Brian O'Leary does not think the Apollo missions were a hoax. You can contact him by email drbrianoleary@gmail.com or post P.O.Box 258, Loja, Ecuador and ask him.

That's not what I said Brian O'Leary ever stated. He always maintains (in personal e-mails) to this day that he is not 100% sure the Apollo Moon landings ever happened. This is a simply incredible statement from someone who was so close to the Apolo programme and had his name deleted from the astronauts Hall of Fame for mentioning it.

There should be no doubt in his mind.

[jahzel]

Good post. It just backs up my assumption that the Apollo missions were never carried out. If it's too dangerous now to go to the moon then you can bet your ass it was back then. It's also incredibly expensive. I'll bet the taxpayer’s money used for the Apollo moon mission went to covertly fund something else while the whole thing was filmed on Earth in a studio - it's so much easier, safer and cheaper.

...Just judging by the crappy looking equipment used on these missions it juuuust doesn't seem feasible. Eagle 1 looks like the bloody GI Joe toy I used to own more than anything! :p

Sorry NASA, but you are a monumental fraud, and might I add - a money laundering operation.

[endlessvista]

It's also incredibly expensive. I'll bet the taxpayer’s money used for the Apollo moon mission went to covertly fund something else

Yes you are 100% correct.

It went to the REAL space programme...the one we are not allowed to know about.

[jahzel]

Yes you are 100% correct.

It went to the REAL space programme...the one we are not allowed to know about.

Funnily enough that's exactly what I thought. I've heard a lot about the actual trip to the moon which didn't go down to good. The moon is apparently already occupied by beings with hostile intent.

Maybe they DID go to the moon but the actual scenes were replaced over with the studio scenes because the astronauts talked a lot about being watched and stalked by things out there on the moon. (?)

We do have the technology to visit outer space, it's just not available in the public domain.

Look at the Aurora for christ sake! Unbelievable.

[endlessvista]

Look at the Aurora for christ sake! Unbelievable.

and you can bet that's already obsolete compared to what they have now.

[tampaman]

What makes me laugh is there's no evidence of a hoax while there's mountains of evidence Apollo did take place and your willing to take the hoax stuff as fact.

Ive not seen one single shred of evidence that supports the hoax theory not one. If you have some then post it as all this i think this could of happened or maybe they did this is worthless.

[endlessvista]

What makes me laugh is there's no evidence of a hoax while there's mountains of evidence Apollo did take place and your willing to take the hoax stuff as fact.

Ive not seen one single shred of evidence that supports the hoax theory not one. If you have some then post it as all this i think this could of happened or maybe they did this is worthless.


Look harder and without the NASA goggles.

[oiram]

So that rules out aliens ever being here, or ever coming here. :) Good logical thinking!
Love it! Two in one hit great.

And they will run naked on the road!
http://i467.photobucket.com/albums/rr40/413200/11/banannadance.gif

New NASA report ....... Aliens eat radiation for breakfast :D:D

Let there be light!

At least now people will understand how Bankers & Governments get richer & richer & you don't have enough to eat & get kicked out of your house for again a self created crises.

Waking up must be hard! Hah! .... told you so for 30 years now!
You all get what you deserve for all your ignorance.
Do I feel sorry no not at all! Truth always prevails in the end.

Did you know that Aliens speak English or maybe German but Americans don't understand German? :p Or did they use sign languish like this?
http://home.comcast.net/~daschor/clipart/bush_middle_finger.png
Because they told them to never come back! What a load of American bolox.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3d8-9vTAVcY

[tampaman]

Look harder and without the NASA goggles.

Ive looked long and hard at the hoax "evidence" and none of it stands up, not one single piece. Every point you raise ive know about for years and was thrown out with the other trash.

Why not post some of this proof of a hoax that i apparently have overlooked?

[oiram]

Ive looked long and hard at the hoax "evidence" and none of it stands up, not one single piece. Every point you raise ive know about for years and was thrown out with the other trash.

Why not post some of this proof of a hoax that i apparently have overlooked?
The same with the Illuminati which does not exist
The NWO does not exist
Shadow Government does not exist ......etc

http://i467.photobucket.com/albums/rr40/413200/liarliar.gif

I love this one
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Us8xLsQ1MIE

Other prophetic writers claim The Battle of Armageddon to be of spiritual nature rather than physical. The Angels of Light and the Angels of Darkness are to do battle, and in the end, good triumphs over evil. Lucifer/Satan is defeated, he and his “troops” are thrown into the “Lake of Fire”, and good reigns henceforth forever.

The Truth is that there is to be an “end of the age” confrontation between good and evil upon Earth Shan. At this present time Shan is making a great transition from third dimension through fourth and into fifth dimension at her request. Creator God Aton of Light has granted this request. Because no evil is allowed in fifth dimension, all evil must be removed from Earth Shan prior to this transition. Total harmony and balance must be restored to Shan. This is now happening.

The “Battle of Armageddon” is both a physical and a spiritual battle and has been occurring on Shan for thousands of years, now. It is nearly over. The spiritual forces of Darkness have suffered great losses, and the Draconian/Serpent 4D controllers have permanently left Earth Shan. The Forces of Light have placed a protective energy field around Shan to prevent these evil entities from ever returning. On the physical front many evil leaders in positions of authority such as administrators, supervisors, attorneys, bankers, judges, military commanders, doctors, teachers and clergymen have chosen to leave Earth Shan. Look around you and discover for yourself who is “missing”. Many evil people have chosen to stand against God’s Plan 2000 and are losing their battle. Many in various positions of authority have chosen to hinder or try to stop the NESARA Law which brings sweeping changes for good. They have failed and many have been removed to other planets to do environmental improvement work for the remainder of their present lifestream. Others are in the containment areas originally constructed by them in all fifty states of the U.S. and in other countries to hold those of us who refused to cooperate with the New World Order. Readers, the evil New World Order has fallen! Believe it, for it is true! The Khazarian Zionist Bolsheviks (KZB) and their Satan’s Plan 2000” have been defeated. I suspect that the “People of the Lie” do not yet believe this to be true.

Who are the “People of the Lie”? Some are the adherents to the religion of Christianity and the believers in the infallibility of their “holy” book the Bible. They believe the biblical tenents of God Jehovah being Creator God and a just and loving entity. They believe that God Jehovah had a “chosen people” the Jews, and that he gave these “chosen people” a “promised land” where they would live in peace and happiness. From their “promised land” of Palestine and their “new Jerusalem” with their God Jehovah, they would rule the world.

For centuriesChristians the world over have believed this nonsense recorded in their Bible by the KZB, without realizing that they (the Christians) are People of the Lie. They are victims of the KZB joke. Those who wake up to the joke realize that their ‘Holy Bible” is not so holy and that God Jehovah is not Creator God after all.

http://www.fourwinds10.com/siterun_data/bellringers_corner/writings/news.php?q=1195607967

[endlessvista]

Ive looked long and hard at the hoax "evidence" and none of it stands up, not one single piece. Every point you raise ive know about for years and was thrown out with the other trash.

Why not post some of this proof of a hoax that i apparently have overlooked?

What's the point you're mind is made up on the matter. I understand were Hagbard is coming from. The evidence in favour of a hoax is so enormous that it's as clear as day for anyone objectively looking.

You know, for years I was just like you. I thought the moon hoax was stupid or the deluded ravings of some isolated weirdos. But then something happened which changed everything. I saw the original press conference of the first 3 Apollo astronauts back from the moon.

At first I said, "gosh, they are cool and calm?"

After the second viewing I said "OMG the fuckers never went!"

then all the previous "bogus" and "debunked" evidence started to look less "crackpot"...from there it all fell into place.

People like you, and I am not personally attacking you, just using an analogy, are like alcoholics who cannot accept there is a problem to begin with. It is all the other side who are always the morons and liars, it is all the other side who are always sneaky and discredited....

Anyways, many thanks for your sudden and imparital arrivial on this board, I think somebody over at alt.chain-smoking.fethish has just posted that Gus Grissom was murdered. Off you go now...

[reptilianshapeshifter]

The same with the Illuminati which does not exist
The NWO does not exist
Shadow Government does not exist ......etc

http://i467.photobucket.com/albums/rr40/413200/liarliar.gif

I love this one
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Us8xLsQ1MIE

It says at the end "compare with US underwater training" and to my eyes the chinese one looks like its filmed in space whereas the US under water training looks like its filmed under water.

[tampaman]

So apart from the press conference you mentioned its back to hand waving and personal insults agin when asked for evidence lol that speaks mountains.

Claiming i am closeminded is not only untrue its unfair as you don't know me. Its a desperate claim hoping to win support and one i cant possibly prove wrong until and if you come up with this evidence of a hoax you claim to have. You see i don't need to believe i do because the evidence of a hoax ive seen so far is crap. Now if you have something that stands up I'm all ears.

So you saw 3 guys who are not actors or TV personalities a little jaded and tired and probably spooked by the idea that they were now the most famous men on the planet speaking to the world and you think that means it was all a hoax.

I'm not going anywhere friend and i will continue to push for this enormous amount of evidence of a hoax you say you have.

So please leave the personal insults out (asked for a second time) and start posting some facts.

[tampaman]

It says at the end "compare with US underwater training" and to my eyes the chinese one looks like its filmed in space whereas the US under water training looks like its filmed under water.

Its as simple as getting someone who speaks Chinese and seeing if they do say what the Epoch times wants you to think they say about being in water. They don't, the translation is a total lie. This is a hit piece by the Epoch times who have an axe to grind with the Chinese government.

[endlessvista]

It says at the end "compare with US underwater training" and to my eyes the chinese one looks like its filmed in space whereas the US under water training looks like its filmed under water.

Notice how the US media did not blow the bubble, sorry whistle on this one. Same reason why none of them blow the whistle on any of the "other sides" space stuff.

Honour among theives.

[tampaman]

Notice how the US media did not blow the bubble, sorry whistle on this one. Same reason why none of them blow the whistle on any of the "other sides" space stuff.

Honour among theives.

Its as simple as getting someone who speaks Chinese and seeing if they do say what the Epoch times wants you to think they say about being in water. They don't, the translation is a total lie. This is a hit piece by the Epoch times who have an axe to grind with the Chinese government.

You wont except NASA data but you embrace a silly YouTube video that can be discredited with minimal personal effort lol.

[tampaman]

The translation that's fooled some of you actually says "nothing, nothing lets go" and sod all about water.

[endlessvista]

Man you really are getting hysterical!

[tampaman]

Man you really are getting hysterical!

Yeah I'm hysterically laughing at people who fell for that.

[tampaman]

Hey endlessvista will this Ultimate and Absolute Proof Apollo Never Happened. be turning up any time soon?

[endlessvista]

add obsessed to hysterical.

[merlincove]

This thread breaks the Trade Descriptions Act. It is not "ultimate and absolute proof" at all.


1. The Apollo spacecraft passed through the Van Allen belt quite quickly, so that in the short time they were exposed, the astronauts did not receive a dose of radiation considered dangerous, at least not compared to the inevitable other risks in the mission.

This is the straightforward, scientific answer. It is correct, to the best of my knowledge and belief.

2. It has to be possible to go to the Moon, because we who are old enough all saw them on TV; a million of us (me included, for Apollo 11) saw the actual launch; a few of us (me included, for Apollo 8) saw the Trans-Lunar Injection burn, from low-Earth orbit to trans-lunar trajectory in the dark sky over Hawaii; and how could anyone fake all that?!

This is a simple common-sense answer. Also correct, I think.

3. There was a monstrous government conspiracy, and the whole thing was faked. I am part of that conspiracy, so you cannot trust my answer.

I know for a fact this one is false -- but how can you know that?!

4. There was a monstrous conspiracy, and the whole thing was faked. I was deceived too, so you cannot trust my answer.

I am as sure as I think one can reasonably be about anything that this one is false, but of course how could I possibly be absolutely certain, in principle?

5. You can't know anything for sure that you have not completely verified yourself, all you can do is take the word of people you trust. So who do you trust?




Great post dreamweaver :-)

And i love the first line, respect :D

[tampaman]

add obsessed to hysterical.

Back to the name calling i see.

Still no sign of this Ultimate and Absolute Proof Apollo Never Happened. though.

[ytch]

Booooooring.
Put some substance in the subject,
read the three and a half gazillion other threads about it
or get some kind of...life?!

Or please keep on spreading your negative energy
in the rant room, that´s what it´s there for.

Or sing a silly song

And don´t follow any orders, that´s an order, private!

love
ytch;)