About the upside-down cross in Vatican

[kasalt]

According to Catholic tradition, the pope is the successor to St. Peter. Also according to tradition, St. Peter was crucified upside down. This was allegedly done by the Romans at Peter's request, because when they were about to crucify him, he told them that he wasn't worthy to die in the manner in which his Lord was executed. So, the Romans supposedly obliged him by crucifying him upside down. Since the pope is St. Peter's successor, he sits in a chair with an upside-down cross imaged on it, in honor of the memory of the death of St. Peter. This is all according to Catholic teaching. Nothing satanic is intended by it.

[eternal_spirit]

According to Catholic tradition, the pope is the successor to St. Peter. Also according to tradition, St. Peter was crucified upside down. This was allegedly done by the Romans at Peter's request, because when they were about to crucify him, he told them that he wasn't worthy to die in the manner in which his Lord was executed. So, the Romans supposedly obliged him by crucifying him upside down. Since the pope is St. Peter's successor, he sits in a chair with an upside-down cross imaged on it, in honor of the memory of the death of St. Peter. This is all according to Catholic teaching. Nothing satanic is intended by it.


Okay, so why is the head of the Catholic Church based in Rome, when it was the Roman's who crucified Christ?

[graflok]

And, President Bill Clinton said he "did not have sex with that woman." :rolleyes:

[kasalt]

St. Peter, First Pope - Catholic Online
http://www.catholic.org/saints/saint.php?saint_id=5358
"According to rich tradition, Peter was crucified on the Vatican Hill upside down because he declared himself unworthy to die in the same manner as the Lord."

Truth about Catholic Pope under the inverted cross (Peter)
http://bibleprobe.com/forum/messages/776.html
"The inverted cross nearby a Roman Catholic Pope is the sign of the Fisherman, Peter, who was crucified upside down. This use by the Roman Catholic Pope goes back in ancient history to the 1st century. This valid Christian use of the inverted cross, pre-dates contemporary thinking that an upside down cross is always associated with Satanism, similar to a black mass. It is in fact, old Christian symbol for the Martyrdom of St. Peter."


If you have any substantive evidence to the contrary, please post...

[eternal_spirit]

Maybe the Satanist's in the Church wanted to do him upside down. Although the story about Peter seems dodgy. The Roman's killed Jesus so they could well be lying.

[kasalt]

Okay, so why is the head of the Catholic Church based in Rome, when it was the Roman's who crucified Christ?

Actually, if you read the New Testament, the responsibility for the crucifixion of Jesus is placed squarely on the Jews rather than the Romans. The gospels would have us believe, for example, that Pilate's wife told him, "I have suffered much in a dream on this day, have nothing to do with that just man." And Pilate himself supposedly washed his hands before the crowd of Jews who clamored for his crucifixion, declaring, "I am innocent of this man's blood," before turning him over to be crucified out of fear of a Jewish insurrection. And then the gospels tell us bluntly that the Jews cried out, "Let his blood be upon us and upon our children."

The entire course of human history has been dramatically altered by this narrative of events, and to think, they may never actually have even happened to begin with. How tragic.

[kasalt]

The Roman's killed Jesus so they could well be lying.

There is a quote in the New Testament that is only mentioned once and never repeated or directly elaborated on again in the Bible, so most people tend to gloss over it as though it isn't even there, and yet I think it is quite significant. This is Jesus speaking to the Jewish religious leaders of his day:

Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof (Matthew 21:43).

What exactly is this "kingdom of God," and to which nation was it given? Was Jesus referring to the Roman empire, perhaps?

Here is a collection of New Testament quotes dealing with Jewish responsibility for the crucifixion of Jesus, contrasted with the responsibility of the Romans:

From the Gospel of Matthew 27:19-25
When [the Roman governor of Judea, Pontius Pilate] was set down on the judgment seat, his wife sent unto him, saying, Have thou nothing to do with that just man: for I have suffered many things this day in a dream because of him.

But the chief priests and elders persuaded the multitude that they should ask Barabbas, and destroy Jesus.

The governor answered and said unto them, Whether of the twain will ye that I release unto you? They said, Barabbas.

Pilate saith unto them, What shall I do then with Jesus which is called Christ? They all say unto him, Let him be crucified.

And the governor said, Why, what evil hath he done? But they cried out the more, saying, Let him be crucified.

When Pilate saw that he could prevail nothing, but that rather a tumult was made, he took water, and washed his hands before the multitude, saying, I am innocent of the blood of this just person: see ye to it.

Then answered all the people, and said, His blood be on us, and on our children.

From the Gospel of Mark 11:15-18
And they come to Jerusalem: and Jesus went into the temple, and began to cast out them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves;

And would not suffer that any man should carry any vessel through the temple.

And he taught, saying unto them, Is it not written, My house shall be called of all nations the house of prayer? but ye have made it a den of thieves.

And the scribes and chief priests heard it, and sought how they might destroy him: for they feared him, because all the people was astonished at his doctrine.

From the Gospel of Luke 23:13-23
And Pilate, when he had called together the chief priests and the rulers and the people,

Said unto them, Ye have brought this man unto me, as one that perverteth the people: and, behold, I, having examined him before you, have found no fault in this man touching those things whereof ye accuse him:

No, nor yet Herod: for I sent you to him; and, lo, nothing worthy of death is done unto him.

I will therefore chastise him, and release him.

(For of necessity he must release one unto them at the feast.)

And they cried out all at once, saying, Away with this man, and release unto us Barabbas:

(Who for a certain sedition made in the city, and for murder, was cast into prison.)

Pilate therefore, willing to release Jesus, spake again to them.

But they cried, saying, Crucify him, crucify him.

And he said unto them the third time, Why, what evil hath he done? I have found no cause of death in him: I will therefore chastise him, and let him go.

And they were instant with loud voices, requiring that he might be crucified. And the voices of them and of the chief priests prevailed.


From the Gospel of John 5:18
The Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.

John 7:1
After these things Jesus walked in Galilee: for he would not walk in Jewry, because the Jews sought to kill him.

John 10:32-41
Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.

Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?

The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.

But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.

Therefore they sought again to take him: but he escaped out of their hand,

And went away again beyond Jordan into the place where John at first baptized; and there he abode.


John 19:4-12
Pilate therefore went forth again, and saith unto them, Behold, I bring him forth to you, that ye may know that I find no fault in him.

Then came Jesus forth, wearing the crown of thorns, and the purple robe. And Pilate saith unto them, Behold the man!

When the chief priests therefore and officers saw him, they cried out, saying, Crucify him, crucify him. Pilate saith unto them, Take ye him, and crucify him: for I find no fault in him.

The Jews answered him, We have a law, and by our law he ought to die, because he made himself the Son of God.

When Pilate therefore heard that saying, he was the more afraid;

And went again into the judgment hall, and saith unto Jesus, Whence art thou? But Jesus gave him no answer.

Then saith Pilate unto him, Speakest thou not unto me? knowest thou not that I have power to crucify thee, and have power to release thee?

Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin.

And from thenceforth Pilate sought to release him: but the Jews cried out, saying, If thou let this man go, thou art not Caesar's friend: whosoever maketh himself a king speaketh against Caesar.

Acts 3:13-15
The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.

But ye denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you;

And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses.

1 Thessalonians 2:14-16
For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews:

Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men:

Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost.

[phildee3]

Actually, if you read the New Testament, the responsibility for the crucifixion of Jesus is placed squarely on the Jews rather than the Romans. The gospels would have us believe, for example, that Pilate's wife told him, "I have suffered much in a dream on this day, have nothing to do with that just man." And Pilate himself supposedly washed his hands before the crowd of Jews who clamored for his crucifixion, declaring, "I am innocent of this man's blood," before turning him over to be crucified out of fear of a Jewish insurrection.



Turned him over to whom?

Romans!!

Pilate was but one, just man, -
even the Romans have a few of them!

[kasalt]

Turned him over to whom?

Romans!!

Pilate was but one, just man, -
even the Romans have a few of them!

John 19:11 (Jesus speaking)
"...he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin."

[zero1]

It's the sword. The upside down Cross is the inverted T section with a hilt - a sword, you see? Peter drew his sword (in the story...) to use violence in defence of Christ in the Garden of Gethsemene when Judas and the Romans came for Jesus, and Jesus rebukes him; "He who Lives by the sword, shall die by the sword". So it makes sense that Peter, in his martyrdom, is crucified upsidedown on an inverted cross (sword), doesn't it? The meaning of this is that Peter was of the Zealot class of Jews in Jesus' time, and that esoterically the Cross of sacrifice and suffering is also a Sword. Jesus said "I come not to bring peace, but the Sword" in the Gospels. It means God gives the Church the right to spread the word using the Cross (sacrifice) or the Sword (violence) - two different kinds of suffering. And of course, St. Peter holds the Keys to the Kingdom of Heaven and is the, traditionally, thus the "Rock" upon which Christ's Church is built. Does it all make more sense now? :)

[kasalt]

Yes, good info I think, thanks for posting.

[hw spartan]

this might help a little

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=tpKw-M...eature=related

its 3 cities ,not 1:)

[armoured_amazon]

"The inverted cross nearby a Roman Catholic Pope is the sign of the Fisherman, Peter, who was crucified upside down....

Of course it is.

/sarcasm

[hw spartan]

sorry guys link breaks wen direct.
here it works
again, its 3 cities not 1
enjoy

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=36971

:)

[kasalt]

Of course it is.

/sarcasm

If you have any evidence to the contrary, you're welcome to post it.

/not sarcasm

[armoured_amazon]

If you have any evidence to the contrary, you're welcome to post it.

/not sarcasm

My 'evidence' comes from the Holy Spirit.

1 John 4:1

[kasalt]

Your 'sarcasm' comes from the Holy Spirit?

[armoured_amazon]

Your 'sarcasm' comes from the Holy Spirit?

Yours certainly doesn't. I know who you are.

[kasalt]

Yours certainly doesn't. I know who you are.

That's nice.

If you have anything to say that's on topic, please do, otherwise I see no point in derailing this thread any further. It's not about you or me.

[phildee3]

John 19:11 (Jesus speaking)
"...he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin."



I completely agree,
but we're not talking about "who hath the greater sin"
we're talking about who killed him.

When they gave up trying because they realised it was futile, they (the Romans) adopted his cult so that they could more subtly distort his true message.
The greater sin still lies with the Jews for letting them do this to one of their own.

[phildee3]

Since the pope is St. Peter's successor, he sits in a chair with an upside-down cross imaged on it, in honor of the memory of the death of St. Peter. This is all according to Catholic teaching. Nothing satanic is intended by it.



This is correct.
Satan works through the Roman "church" in much more subtle ways!

[rhydra]

As previously mentioned, the inverted cross is a sword, not St Peter's sword but the sword of Mithras to who the Vatican was originally a shrine to.

[phildee3]

As previously mentioned, the inverted cross is a sword, not St Peter's sword but the sword of Mithras to who the Vatican was originally a shrine to.



It's a bit blunt, isn't it?
Not very effective...

[rhydra]

It's a bit blunt, isn't it?
Not very effective...
It just became a symbol, the sword which adorned the robes of Mithraic preists became a cross, it lost it's tip, the new, rebrandad Mythracism is now a religion of peace and not restricted to the warrier class, at least, not the public version anyway. ;)

[kasalt]

I completely agree,
but we're not talking about "who hath the greater sin"
we're talking about who killed him.

When they gave up trying because they realised it was futile, they (the Romans) adopted his cult so that they could more subtly distort his true message.

Matthew 21:43 (Jesus speaking)
"Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof."

Who do you think Jesus was referring to in this quote?

[phildee3]

It just became a symbol, the sword which adorned the robes of Mithraic preists became a cross, it lost it's tip, the new, rebrandad Mythracism is now a religion of peace and not restricted to the warrier class, at least, not the public version anyway. ;)



So it became impotent.
I don't see the Vatican as being impotent!

[phildee3]

Matthew 21:43 (Jesus speaking)
"Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof."

Who do you think Jesus was referring to in this quote?



The church.
The true church.

[kasalt]

The church.
The true church.

What is "the true church"? After all there are so many varieties of Christians, and they all claim to be "true". But Jesus said that there was one particular "nation" to whom the kingdom of God was going to be given.

[phildee3]

What is "the true church"?



It is the collective -
of those souls who are His.



After all there are so many varieties of Christians, and they all claim to be "true".



None of them are, if they are sects.

There is but one church!



But Jesus said that there was one particular "nation" to whom the kingdom of God was going to be given.



If a "kingdom" can be a spiritual one, why not a "nation"?

[bendoon]

Matthew 21:43 (Jesus speaking)
"Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof."

Who do you think Jesus was referring to in this quote?

Britain, thats where the Church went for safety out of the way of the Romans.

[lessgov2007]

I hear Christians and Catholics talk of the Anti-Christ but rarely do they look at the obvious. Let me first state that I'm not a Christian. However, I'll clue something in for everyone who's interested. The Bible tells us there have been many Anti-Christs. In the Book of Daniel we are told the Anti-Christ will speak "Boastfully". Who speaks boastfully?

"We hold upon this Earth the place of Almighty God." -Pope Leo XIII in an Encyclical letter, dated June 20, 1894

That's a pretty boastful statement for anyone to make, is it not?

The Popes official name is VICARIUS FILII DEI, which translates numerically into "666". That's an interesting number for a Pope to have. I also remember the Bible telling us the Anti-Christ would receive a fatal wound. Didn't the Pope get imprisoned at one time in the not so distant history? Has he not made a return gaining a city state and all of the Church's power? Doesn't the Pope wear a miters head? Me thinks so...
What is Cleopatra's Needle doing in the Vatican court yard? I'll tell you it has something to do with the Ptolemy bloodline, the Pharaoh of England, and Jesus himself. Don't confuse the Anti-Christ with the Prince of Darkness.

Who's the Prince of Darkness? Do you know how important the number 33 is? Prince William will be turning 33 on June 21, 2015... Do you know how many bloodlines of some of histories most well know men the Prince has flowing through is veins?

I wonder if some pagans & Christians had been reading that pesky Bible and figured out who the Anti-Christ was... Seems to me the Mother Church would not want people figuring that out, now would they? Inquisitions anyone? Why does she call herself the Mother Church? Is she telling on herself?

Just somethings to think about that I have pondered.

[hw spartan]

sorry guys link breaks wen direct.
here it works
again, its 3 cities not 1
enjoy

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=36971

:)

May i remind you all that its actually a Trio. not 1 place of evil. but Trio

[rhydra]

So it became impotent.
I don't see the Vatican as being impotent!

It's just a symbol, PR, innocent looking and simple.

Of course the worship of Mithra probably didn't stop although it was officially banned along with other non Christian practises some time after Christianity became the official religion of Rome. Christianity is just the façade of the real religion that is hidden deep within.

[phildee3]

Christianity is just the façade [of Roman Catholicism] of the real religion that is hidden deep within.



Which is what, do you think?

[kasalt]

I completely agree,
but we're not talking about "who hath the greater sin"
we're talking about who killed him.

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/2726946/the_jews_killed_jesus/

[phildee3]

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/2726946/the_jews_killed_jesus/



Yes, the Jews killed Jesus in the sense that they were responsible for his death,
but it was Romans that actually nailed him to the cross.

Crucifixion was the Roman method of execution.
The Jews' method was by stoning.

[miracles]

I hear Christians and Catholics talk of the Anti-Christ but rarely do they look at the obvious. Let me first state that I'm not a Christian. However, I'll clue something in for everyone who's interested. The Bible tells us there have been many Anti-Christs. In the Book of Daniel we are told the Anti-Christ will speak "Boastfully". Who speaks boastfully?

"We hold upon this Earth the place of Almighty God." -Pope Leo XIII in an Encyclical letter, dated June 20, 1894

That's a pretty boastful statement for anyone to make, is it not?

The Popes official name is VICARIUS FILII DEI, which translates numerically into "666". That's an interesting number for a Pope to have. I also remember the Bible telling us the Anti-Christ would receive a fatal wound. Didn't the Pope get imprisoned at one time in the not so distant history? Has he not made a return gaining a city state and all of the Church's power? Doesn't the Pope wear a miters head? Me thinks so...
What is Cleopatra's Needle doing in the Vatican court yard? I'll tell you it has something to do with the Ptolemy bloodline, the Pharaoh of England, and Jesus himself. Don't confuse the Anti-Christ with the Prince of Darkness.

Who's the Prince of Darkness? Do you know how important the number 33 is? Prince William will be turning 33 on June 21, 2015... Do you know how many bloodlines of some of histories most well know men the Prince has flowing through is veins?

I wonder if some pagans & Christians had been reading that pesky Bible and figured out who the Anti-Christ was... Seems to me the Mother Church would not want people figuring that out, now would they? Inquisitions anyone? Why does she call herself the Mother Church? Is she telling on herself?

Just somethings to think about that I have pondered.

Most hip hop artists speak boastfully... And Ozzy Osborn is the Prince of Darkness.

I see your getting a lot of info from my pesky bible, I hope you have been reading up on the simple message of salvation too. It's pointless uncovering the problem without delivering the solution. Which is what this whole "Truth Movement" is all about IE awakening to the problem. People are better of staying asleep in that case. Let them have a lie in.

God Bless you.

PS. Kick the pope!

[runciter]

According to Catholic tradition, the pope is the successor to St. Peter. Also according to tradition, St. Peter was crucified upside down. This was allegedly done by the Romans at Peter's request, because when they were about to crucify him, he told them that he wasn't worthy to die in the manner in which his Lord was executed. So, the Romans supposedly obliged him by crucifying him upside down. Since the pope is St. Peter's successor, he sits in a chair with an upside-down cross imaged on it, in honor of the memory of the death of St. Peter. This is all according to Catholic teaching. Nothing satanic is intended by it.

i have to disagree, i think it's no coincidence that it happened in israel with a jewish pope.

the cross of saint peter is not used in christian liturgy, and is a well known satanic symbol.

[thetonic]

i have to disagree, i think it's no coincidence that it happened in israel with a jewish pope.

the cross of saint peter is not used in christian liturgy, and is a well known satanic symbol.

agreed

the cross is an occult / satanic symbol whether inverted or not... Why do you think people are nailed to it?

And turning a cross upside down does very little to the symbol

[dlb2007]

Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof (Matthew 21:43).

Isaiah 22

Beware, the Lord is about to take firm hold of you and hurl you away, O you mighty man. 18 He will roll you up tightly like a ball and throw you into a large country. There you will die and there your splendid chariots will remain-- you disgrace to your master's house! 19 I will depose you from your office, and you will be ousted from your position. 20 "In that day I will summon my servant, Eliakim son of Hilkiah. 21 I will clothe him with your robe and fasten your sash around him and hand your authority over to him. He will be a father to those who live in Jerusalem and to the house of Judah. 22 I will place on his shoulder the key to the house of David; what he opens no one can shut, and what he shuts no one can open.

It is clear that God/Jesus was ushering in the transfer of authority from the Jews to the apostles

[kidsarocker]

Okay, so why is the head of the Catholic Church based in Rome, when it was the Roman's who crucified Christ?

Exactlly -why would an authority/organization promote the teachings of Christ when it was these exact teachings they killed him for?
http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=1038172125692
http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=1038189966138#/video/video.php?v=1038175565778

[phildee3]

Exactlly -why would an authority/organization promote the teachings of Christ when it was these exact teachings they killed him for?



They're not.
They're promoting their version and conning everyone it's the real one so they don't look elsewhere.