Genetic Evidence for the Aryan Invasion of India

[december]

The following article first appeared in Newsday, and then the San Francisco Chronicle in May 1999:

http://www.drue.net/images/sf_chron_logo.gif

San Francisco Chronicle, 26 May 1999

History of Ancient Indian Conquest Told in Modern Genes, Experts Say
Robert Cooke, Newsday

Like an indelible signature enduring through a hundred generations, genes that entered India when conquering hordes swooped down from the north thousands of years ago are still there, and remain entrenched at the top of the caste system, scientists report. Analyses of the male Y chromosome, plus genes hidden in small cellular bodies called mitochondria, show that today's genetic patterns agree with accounts of ancient Indo-European warriors' conquering the Indian subcontinent.

The invaders apparently shoved the local men aside, took their women and set up the rigid caste system that exists today. Their descendants are still the elite within Hindu society.

INVADING CAUCASOIDS

Thus today's genetic patterns, the researchers explained, vividly reflect a historic event, or events, that occurred 3,000 or 4,000 years ago. The gene patterns ``are consistent with a historical scenario in which invading Caucasoids -- primarily males -- established the caste system and occupied the highest positions, placing the indigenous population, who were more similar to Asians, in lower caste positions.''

The researchers, from the University of Utah and Andhra Pradesh University in India, used two sets of genes in their analyses.

One set, from the mitochondria, are only passed maternally and can be used to track female inheritance. The other, on the male-determining Y chromosome, can only be passed along paternally and thus track male inheritance.

The data imply, then, ``that there was a group of males with European affinities who were largely responsible for this invasion 3,000 or 4,000 years ago,'' said geneticist Lynn Jorde of the University of Utah.
If women had accompanied the invaders, he said, the evidence should be seen in the mitochondrial genes, but it is not evident.

According to geneticist Douglas Wallace of Emory University in Atlanta, the work reported by Jorde and his colleagues ``is very interesting, and is certainly worth further study.''

Along with Jorde, the research team included Michael Bamshad, W.S. Watkins and M.E. Dixon from Utah and B.B. Rao, B.V.R. Prasad and J.M. Naidu, from Andhra Pradesh University.

UPWARDLY MOBILE WOMEN

By studying both sets of genetic markers, the research team found clear evidence echoing what is still seen socially, that women can be upwardly mobile, in terms of caste, if they marry higher-caste men. In contrast, men generally do not move higher, because women rarely marry men from lower castes, the researchers said.

``Our expectations in this natural experiment are borne out when we look at the genes,'' said Jorde. ``It's one of the few cases where we know the mating situation in a population for 150 generations. So it's kind of a test for how well the genes reflect a population's history.''

The ancient story holds that invaders known as Indo-Europeans, or true Aryans, came from Eastern Europe or western Asia and conquered the Indian subcontinent. The people they subdued descended from the original inhabitants who had arrived far earlier from Africa and from other parts of Asia.

During the genetic studies, in 1996 and 1997, researchers took blood samples from hundreds of people in southern India. The analyses compared the genes from 316 caste members and 330 members of tribal populations, looking for signs of Asian, European and African ancestry.

http://www.dalitstan.org/holocaust/invasion/histgene.html

[december]

Besides genetic evidence, there is also a cultural evidence as well.

Here's typical Aryan artaffects with swastika. And even the word "swastika" is Russian too:

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f161/11aaabbb11/srubnaya.jpg

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f161/11aaabbb11/srub21.jpg

[december]

The question about SWASTIKA - did this symbol come TO or FROM India?

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f161/11aaabbb11/srub20.jpg

[december]

In Slavic/Russian mythology SWA-STIKA symbolised the hands of the God Swarog.

http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en-commons/thumb/f/fe/150px-Receboga.jpg

Swarog is Sun God.

[archangel]

I've been glancing at your threads but have been very busy with things to read up on everything.

What exactly is there general message of these threads?

I was under the impression you were implying that Nordics/Ayans were a completely different race than Africans. And they were not blacks who moved north and developed white skin due evolution of climate.

I also saw that you said Horus Was a white man. Ive read that the egyptians often named the pharoah princes Horus. This doesn't mean the body found was actually horus (the anunaki god) but does none the less show supportive evidence that the Ancient egyptians were white!!

I'd be interested in hearing the sumarized theory of what you are getting at here.

[december]

I was under the impression you were implying that Nordics/Ayans were a completely different race than Africans. And they were not blacks who moved north and developed white skin due evolution of climate.

Hello, archangel
Well, of course, Africans and Aryans are different races. What's new about that?

http://rf.foto.radikal.ru/0707/e8/32f265a35b9d.jpg

[archangel]

I must have misunderstood. I thought one of your other threads was discussing that whites migrated South from the North. And did not originate out of africa. Meaning they had a different origin that Africans.

Well then what are you trying to get at about with this thread? Nordics invaded India in the past?

I'm not sure the swas. proves these are nordic artifacts. Did not many cultures use this symbol? even Native americans? I thought it was a symbol of the sun.

[tejas]

K so we have genetic proof for what has been in hindu history for millenia, now what?

[december]

I've been glancing at your threads but have been very busy with things to read up on everything.

What exactly is there general message of these threads?

Hello again, archangel.

To find the answer to your question you need to READ the threads and not just glance at them.
If you have a specific question or information which is related to the thread, then feel free to post it here.

I'll be glad to learn something new from you. :)

[december]

SCYTHIAN-STYLE BOWS DISCOVERED IN XINJIANG

http://www.atarn.org/chinese/Urumqi/urum_ill/ltr_no3.jpg

From the photographs and drawings of Stephen Selby.
By Bede Dwyer

Introduction.

This is written to give a historical context to the information that Stephen Selby brought back from the museum in Urumqi on some ancient bows. They have not been widely published in Chinese or English, but they are very significant for the study of archery history. Stephen supplied me with the descriptions, but my imagination supplied the reconstructions. I also redrew his sketches so any errors are mine.

The Location

Shanshan County, to the east of Urumqi, is on the Northern Route of the Silk Road, which splits in two to pass the extremely arid Takla Makan Desert. To the East is the Gobi Desert; to the west is the Tarim Basin, which drains the mountains to the north. Its watercourses eventually evaporate in the Takla Makan. Subeshi (Subeixi) is situated to the east of the famous Silk Road town of Turpan (Turfan). Since early exploitation by foreign archaeologists in the nineteenth and early twentieth century, the area has continued to reveal amazing relicts of the past. Modern Chinese archaeologists have revealed more details of the ancient inhabitants and their ways of life. The unique dry conditions have preserved usually perishable artifacts and even the bodies of some of the people buried there.

What have surprised many in the West were the European features of some of the bodies. However, ancient Chinese historians had recorded the variety of races on their northwestern border as far back as the Han Dynasty. This area was both a trade route and the point of contact many people from different environments and cultures. People farmed and traded in the oases and nomads visited both for trade and warfare.

The Artifacts

Stephen Selby examined several bows in Urumqi that were of various designs and from several periods. One type of great significance to the history of archery was very similar to bows familiar in the West from Greek, Persian and Scythian [i] art. I will discuss why this is not so surprising below, but firstly I will describe one of the bows.

The bow in question possessed a feature that is no longer common in modern composite bows. It was thick and narrow in the cross-section of that part of the limb where it bends. Unlike later bows, with their broad lenticular or rectangular bending sections, this bow had a triangular section with the apex on the belly side of the limb. The back of the bow was slightly convex and formed the base of the triangle. At the centre of the bow, the limbs are 4 cm wide. For a greater part of the limb it had this unusual shape.


Figure 1 Cross-section of centre area of bow.

Another feature that was rare in more recent traditional composite bows was that the tips were smoothly recurved. The recurves had string grooves on their belly sides like modern target recurve bows. The cross-section of the recurve was more like a slightly flattened oval. For part of this there is a groove on one side as just mentioned. This feature is totally unlike the bow tips on later composite bows. The term we use for bow tips, “siyah”, is not really appropriate [ii].



Figure 2 Cross-section of recurve.

In outline, the bow looks like the Classical Cupid’s bow of Greek and Roman art. This is not an accident. Despite being found in the modern confines of China, this bow represents a survival of the ancient Scythian bow, which was used from Italy in the west to the north of China in the east. Roman armies might have carried them even further west. Remains of later Roman archery equipment have been found in Britain, both grip scales and laths for the ears. However, the Scythian bow would leave no telltale laths in the archaeological records. Even in the heartland of the Scythians, modern Russia and the Ukraine, very few identifiable remains of bows remain.



http://www.atarn.org/chinese/scythian_bows.htm

[Anders Lindman]

If I remember correctly, Alan Watt said that the Aryans came from Egypt. That could be interesting to do a research on.

[december]

If I remember correctly, Alan Watt said that the Aryans came from Egypt. That could be interesting to do a research on.

Anders Lindman, I don't know where Alan Watt is getting his info from, but the EVIDENCE shows that with the begining of the Ice Age the true (original) Aryans came from North, from what is today Russia.
Did you read the article?

http://www.white-history.com/hwr5_files/flood4.jpg


Many modern day Whites are either direct or part descendants of a great wave of White peoples who swept into Europe from about 5500 BC till around 500 BC. These peoples, Nordic in terms of the White racial sub-groupings, had their original heartland in the region known today as central and southern Russia.


Leaving the Black Sea Basin, the Nordic Indo-European peoples invaded Europe and Asia. Europe was settled by four main groups: the Celts, the Germans, the Balts and the Slavs. In the south they settled pre-dynastic Egypt and the Middle East, penetrating India (the Indo-Aryans); Afghanistan (the Aryans); and China - see chapter six.

http://www.white-history.com/hwr5.htm

[carlg1212]

The Nephilim's offspring came from the Caucasus mountains. Many cultures support this theory.

[Anders Lindman]

Caucasoids -- primarily males -- established the caste system and occupied the highest positions, placing the indigenous population, who were more similar to Asians, in lower caste positions.''


Sounds like the beginning of the elite! :eek: Even today we have a 'cast' system in the entire world with the banking elite acting above ordinary people (the cannonfodder).

[december]

http://www.drue.net/images/sf_chron_logo.gif

San Francisco Chronicle, 26 May 1999


The ancient story holds that invaders known as Indo-Europeans, or true Aryans, came from Eastern Europe or western Asia and conquered the Indian subcontinent. The people they subdued descended from the original inhabitants who had arrived far earlier from Africa and from other parts of Asia.

During the genetic studies, in 1996 and 1997, researchers took blood samples from hundreds of people in southern India. The analyses compared the genes from 316 caste members and 330 members of tribal populations, looking for signs of Asian, European and African ancestry.

http://www.dalitstan.org/holocaust/invasion/histgene.html



http://rr.foto.radikal.ru/0709/0f/a1ba95753b2d.jpg

http://rr.foto.radikal.ru/0709/20/e68bb94381fc.jpg

http://rr.foto.radikal.ru/0709/40/487606d2532e.jpg

http://rr.foto.radikal.ru/0709/8c/ba5008d6989e.jpg

http://rr.foto.radikal.ru/0709/2b/87fbbf0bc8b0.jpg

[synergy777]

according to asiatic history, an invasion did take place from the region, but it wasn't an aryan invasion, but a barbarian one. as aryan is a culture/religion/language, i'm afraid, you are not the original aryans. if you are, why have you not got sanskrit, vedas, etc and we have. maybe the invasion is true, but the aryan part not? maybe they added the aryan bit on to cover up the barbarian part?

so this way we are both right, we indians are the true aryan, and you the invaders?

[synergy777]

Scientific Verification of Vedic Knowledge
by David Osborn
http://www.archaeologyonline.net/artifacts/scientific-verif-vedas.html

the myth of the aryan invasion
http://www.gosai.com/chaitanya/saranagati/html/vedic-upanisads/aryan-invasion.html


Out of India theory
Out of India theory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[december]

The Nephilim's offspring came from the Caucasus mountains. Many cultures support this theory.

Carlg1212, do you have any quotes and links to support this claim?

[anoninnyc]

The Origins of Aryan People
By: M. Sadeq Nazmi-Afshar


I am Dariush, the great king, the king of kings
The king of many countries and many people
The king of this expansive land,
The son of Wishtaspa of Achaemenid,
Persian, the son of a Persian,
'Aryan', from the Aryan race
"From the Darius the Great's Inscription in Naqshe-e-Rostam"

The above scripture is one of most valid written evidences of the history of the Aryan race, and as can be seen, Darius I (Dariush in persian), the Achaemenian king, in the 5th century BCE, declares himself a Persian and form the Aryan race. Herodotus, the father of history, writes (in his book: "History of Herodotus") at the same times: "In ancient times, the Greeks called Iranians "Kaffe", but they were renowned as Aryans among themselves and their neighbors". In another part of his book, Herodotus writes that the Medians were known as Aryans during a certain period. So in two of the oldest written human documents, the race of the Iranians have been mentioned as Aryan.

On the other hand, in many contemporary books, one reads that the Aryans were not original residents of the land of Iran, and that they migrated to Iran from Central Asia or somewhere in the north of Europe. The point is that if some of the oldest written records of the human history confirm that the residents of the Iranian Plateau were Aryans, why should some claim otherwise?

We will discuss the origins of the Iranian race, and we will try to shed light on some unknown corners of history, which has been mixed with ignorance and lies.

We want to extract the facts out of centuries and millennia and out of paleontological studies, old and new, to prove that Iran is the original land of the Aryan race, that this people has never migrated to any other land, and it has defended its homelands for centuries on end.

There are all numerous reasons that the Aryan race has undergone its evolution from the primitive man to the white man in the Iranian Plateau. These reasons can be categorized as historical, geographical, mythological, anthropological and linguistically.

Against the reasons we will discuss, no valid evidence has been produced to prove that the Aryans migrated from Central Asia or any other place to Iran. What European historians have written in this regard is based on unscientific and unproven hypotheses influenced by anti-Iranian and political ideas.

The reason for the migration of Aryans from Iran to other places of the world should be searched in climatic events. At the end of Ice Age, as a result of excessive rainfall on the Alborz and Zagros Mountains and the melting of the ice accumulated on the mountains, the rivers flowing through the Iranian Plateau were much larger than they are today. Therefore there was a large lake in the place where to day is the Central Desert. One of the most interesting mythological texts says in this regard:

"...In the second phase of the creation of the world, Ahura Mazda created the waters, and the waters flowed towards Farakhekrat Sea which covers one third of the world from the southern outskirts of Alborz." With the continuous warming of the earth and the decrease in rainfall, this lake gradually dried up and the peoples living around it, who had a common language and Aryan culture, was forced to migrate from Iran. The routes of this great migration are an evidence for the central position of Iran, for the Aryan peoples have set Iran as the center and set out on migration in any direction.

As a matter of fact, many Western historians have declined to accept the politicized version of history, admitting that Iran was the origin of the Aryan race.

Hegel writes in his book The Philosophy of history: "The principle of evolution begins with the history of Iran". Another prominent orientologist says that: A large part of our cultural and material legacy was unveiled in southwestern Asia the center of which was Iran." Petri, in a famous speech, said that "When Egypt had only just begun the art of pottery, the people of Susa (in Iran) were painting beautiful pictures on ceramics." this shows that the Iranian civilization was 3,000 years ahead of that of Egypt, dating back at least to 12,000 years ago. In other words, when Central Asia was totally buried under thick layers of ice, Iranians were creating pictures on earthenware, which indicates their art and creativity.

Considering the existence of this 12,000 years-old civilization in Iran, would it not be unlikely that 6,000 years ago, a group of people spontaneously crossed the ice covered Siberian lands, suddenly wiping such a civilization off the earth. The word Aryan has roots in world that Iranians called themselves by Ayria, meaning free, noble and steady. The world Iran is derived from this very root, having been transformed from to Ayran Iran, meaning the land of the Aryans. This is the most ancient term applied to the Iranian Plateau, and such a term has never been detected anywhere else in the world, e.g. Europe or Turkistan.

The myth of Aryan's migration to Iran implies that a people have come to Iran from a remote land, giving their name to an already inhabited land which had no name, and that no trace of their name has been remained in their name has been remained in their original homeland. In historical records, Central Asia has been mentioned as the land of Sakas, Masagets, Touran, Soghd, Kharazm, Khiveh, and Turkistan, none of which words has any relation to the word Aryan.

Paleontology is one of the sciences that confirm the formation of the white race in Ian. The Homo sapiens evolved from its Neanderthal ancestors in a 30,000- year process between 50,000 to 20,000 years ago. In the Hutu and Kamarband caves near Behshahr, Iran, bones of men from different historical periods have been found, showing that a kind of human race has continuously dwelled in this area and evolved, meaning that there has been no migration.

In Babylonian and Assyrian sources, one of the largest ancient Iranian tribes has been mentioned as Kas Su, Kassi and Kashi, which in ancient languages and also in the modern language of the people of Gilan means fair-eyed and fair-faced. The name of central city of Kashan (Kassan) is a relic of this ancient Aryan tribe. Many relics of the Kassi tribe has also been found in the Khorramabad region, including paintings in the cave of Dusheh which date back to 15,000 BC. In these paintings, people can be seen riding horses. This is a very valid evidence against the erroneous theories which say that the Aryans brought the horse form Central Asia to Iran around 4,000 BC. Like its ancient riders, the horse is indigenous to Iran since at least 17,000 years ago.

Geology and meteorology confirm the evolution of man in the Iranian Plateau. The supporters of the theory of the migration of the Aryans from the north to Iran assume that with the fall in the temperature during the ice age, men were forced to migrate from the north (Central Asia) to the south (Iran). But the homo race was formed at the end of the third ice age, i.e. when the weather was gradually warming from the south to the north. Therefore, it would have been natural for people to migrate from south to north, and not the other way round. In fact, Central Asia was not habitable for men for thousands of years after the ice age, it only became so in the historic age as a result of the melting and receding of the arctic ice cap. Later groups of Iranians and Chinese migrated to these areas and formed the Turk race through cross breeding. The Indians are a hybrid of early Dravidians and the white Iranian race, a fact, which is evident from their dark skin.

So why have some European historians said that the origin of the Iranians is Central Asia? Because in 1833, an Oxford University professor used the term Aryan to describe a group of languages with common origins. Although he later admitted that parts of his theory were erroneous, the theory of an Aryan race was used by a group of romanticist writers and western historians in quest for an ancient identity.

The Germans, eyeing vast expanses of land in Central Asia, called themselves Aryans and cried for a return to the homeland. They used the Swastika, which, as a "wheel of Mithra (Sun/Fire)" used to be the arm of the Iranians since ancient times, as a Nazi symbol, to have an alibi to invade Russia.

The French, British, Russians and recently Americans found different reasons to call themselves Aryans.

http://www.iranchamber.com/history/articles/aryan_people_origins.php

[december]

The Origins of Aryan People
By: M. Sadeq Nazmi-Afshar

http://www.iranchamber.com/history/articles/aryan_people_origins.php

We heard this story already...
How about Genetic Evidence for a change?

:)

Many modern day Whites are either direct or part descendants of a great wave of White peoples who swept into Europe from about 5500 BC till around 500 BC. These peoples, Nordic in terms of the White racial sub-groupings, had their original heartland in the region known today as central and southern Russia.


Leaving the Black Sea Basin, the Nordic Indo-European peoples invaded Europe and Asia. Europe was settled by four main groups: the Celts, the Germans, the Balts and the Slavs. In the south they settled pre-dynastic Egypt and the Middle East, penetrating India (the Indo-Aryans); Afghanistan (the Aryans); and China - see chapter six.

http://www.white-history.com/hwr5.htm


SCYTHIAN-STYLE BOWS DISCOVERED IN XINJIANG

http://www.atarn.org/chinese/Urumqi/urum_ill/ltr_no3.jpg

This is not an accident. Despite being found in the modern confines of China, this bow represents a survival of the ancient Scythian bow, which was used from Italy in the west to the north of China in the east. Roman armies might have carried them even further west. Remains of later Roman archery equipment have been found in Britain, both grip scales and laths for the ears. However, the Scythian bow would leave no telltale laths in the archaeological records. Even in the heartland of the Scythians, modern Russia and the Ukraine, very few identifiable remains of bows remain.

http://www.atarn.org/chinese/scythian_bows.htm


Genetic Evidence for the Aryan Invasion of India


The following article first appeared in Newsday, and then the San Francisco Chronicle in May 1999:

http://www.drue.net/images/sf_chron_logo.gif

San Francisco Chronicle, 26 May 1999

History of Ancient Indian Conquest Told in Modern Genes, Experts Say
Robert Cooke, Newsday

Like an indelible signature enduring through a hundred generations, genes that entered India when conquering hordes swooped down from the north thousands of years ago are still there, and remain entrenched at the top of the caste system, scientists report. Analyses of the male Y chromosome, plus genes hidden in small cellular bodies called mitochondria, show that today's genetic patterns agree with accounts of ancient Indo-European warriors' conquering the Indian subcontinent.

The invaders apparently shoved the local men aside, took their women and set up the rigid caste system that exists today. Their descendants are still the elite within Hindu society.

INVADING CAUCASOIDS

Thus today's genetic patterns, the researchers explained, vividly reflect a historic event, or events, that occurred 3,000 or 4,000 years ago. The gene patterns ``are consistent with a historical scenario in which invading Caucasoids -- primarily males -- established the caste system and occupied the highest positions, placing the indigenous population, who were more similar to Asians, in lower caste positions.''

The researchers, from the University of Utah and Andhra Pradesh University in India, used two sets of genes in their analyses.

One set, from the mitochondria, are only passed maternally and can be used to track female inheritance. The other, on the male-determining Y chromosome, can only be passed along paternally and thus track male inheritance.

The data imply, then, ``that there was a group of males with European affinities who were largely responsible for this invasion 3,000 or 4,000 years ago,'' said geneticist Lynn Jorde of the University of Utah.
If women had accompanied the invaders, he said, the evidence should be seen in the mitochondrial genes, but it is not evident.

According to geneticist Douglas Wallace of Emory University in Atlanta, the work reported by Jorde and his colleagues ``is very interesting, and is certainly worth further study.''

Along with Jorde, the research team included Michael Bamshad, W.S. Watkins and M.E. Dixon from Utah and B.B. Rao, B.V.R. Prasad and J.M. Naidu, from Andhra Pradesh University.

UPWARDLY MOBILE WOMEN

By studying both sets of genetic markers, the research team found clear evidence echoing what is still seen socially, that women can be upwardly mobile, in terms of caste, if they marry higher-caste men. In contrast, men generally do not move higher, because women rarely marry men from lower castes, the researchers said.

``Our expectations in this natural experiment are borne out when we look at the genes,'' said Jorde. ``It's one of the few cases where we know the mating situation in a population for 150 generations. So it's kind of a test for how well the genes reflect a population's history.''

The ancient story holds that invaders known as Indo-Europeans, or true Aryans, came from Eastern Europe or western Asia and conquered the Indian subcontinent. The people they subdued descended from the original inhabitants who had arrived far earlier from Africa and from other parts of Asia.

During the genetic studies, in 1996 and 1997, researchers took blood samples from hundreds of people in southern India. The analyses compared the genes from 316 caste members and 330 members of tribal populations, looking for signs of Asian, European and African ancestry.

http://www.dalitstan.org/holocaust/invasion/histgene.html

[synergy777]

Vedik Europe
http://www.salagram.net/VWHEurope.html

Hebrews And Vedic Brahmins
http://www.vnn.org/editorials/ET0307/ET14-8222.html

Vedic Friends Association
http://www.vedicfriends.org/index.htm

the myth of the aryan invasion
http://www.gosai.com/chaitanya/saran...-invasion.html

steven knapp
http://www.stephen-knapp.com/

Scientific Verification of Vedic Knowledge
http://www.archaeologyonline.net/art...rif-vedas.html

Sanskrit and the Technological Age
http://www.gosai.com/science/sanskri...ghtenment.html


Out of India theory
Out of India theory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

also check viewzone

http://www.viewzone.com/VIEW.ZONE.html

any one can see thats those with aryan religion, names, language are the aryans, thats indians.

also why did the max muller aryans go to india? because india is the home of the aryans. see aryan is way of life, hindusim/buddhism/sikhism, vegetarianism, aryu-vedic medicine, yoga, etc, not a racial type. india's racial type is asiatic, from africa. this then migrated north, adapted/changed and gave birth to iranians, etc, who gave birth to medes.

also can any wannabe aryan, or whatever the fad/culture grab is in this decade, tell me about dominant/recessive genes, genetic diversity etc. i mean atlanteans, martians, aryans, israelis, egyptians, etc, talk about mpd, lol.

[synergy777]

http://www.vurdon.it/english.htm

This site is dedicated to the Roma, the Gypsy people.

A note on terminology:

The English version of this site uses the term Roma instead of Gypsies, because it is what many of them call themselves. There are groups of Gypsies who do not call themselves Roma: the Sinti, the Cale, and the Romanichals, for example. However, to keep things simple, in this web page Roma means all Gypsies. The singular is Rom, the plural Roma or Rom. Romani is the language of the Roma. This site also uses Romani as an adjective meaning "of the Roma", as in the phrase "Romani society". Finally, this site sometimes refers to the Gypsies of Italy as "Rom and Sinti", since these are the two main groups living in Italy.

http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/2138/itinerariorf4.jpg

more at the link

[december]

So, syn777, can you explain why are there white kids in India?...

http://rr.foto.radikal.ru/0709/0f/a1ba95753b2d.jpg

http://rr.foto.radikal.ru/0709/20/e68bb94381fc.jpg

http://rr.foto.radikal.ru/0709/40/487606d2532e.jpg

http://rr.foto.radikal.ru/0709/8c/ba5008d6989e.jpg

http://rr.foto.radikal.ru/0709/2b/87fbbf0bc8b0.jpg

[synergy777]

why are there white indians in india, have you been on mars the last two years, lol. they are there because they are indian, its shows what i have trying to inform you, we are all connected. if i said indians are from europeans, i bet you there would be no oppostion. however when you factor in genetics, dominant/recessive, genetic diversity, it becomes a matter of logic. however cultural prejudices are more powerful than logic.

why is it that italians,spanish, portuguese, celts etc acknowledge their origins and you don't. the language ogham, the language that gave birth to gaelic, is from sumer/shinar, thats iran/iraq. hence iran/aryan/arya = arya/eire.

[seanx]

Any chance, lads that you hold your race purity meetings
somwhere else.

Here are two suggestions;

The forum at the BNP site or the KKK Clam site.

Why you want to bore everybody here with your 'who is the best
and most pure race crap is beyond me?

[december]

Any chance, lads that you hold your race purity meetings
somwhere else.

Here are two suggestions;

The forum at the BNP site or the KKK Clam site.

Why you want to bore everybody here with your 'who is the best
and most pure race crap is beyond me?

Dude!
Don't spam this thread if you DON'T UNDERSTAND THE SUBJECT and have nothing to add. OK?

We are discussing scientific facts here. So take your silly stuff somewhere else.

PLEASE...



SCYTHIAN-STYLE BOWS DISCOVERED IN XINJIANG

http://www.atarn.org/chinese/Urumqi/urum_ill/ltr_no3.jpg

From the photographs and drawings of Stephen Selby.
By Bede Dwyer

Introduction.

This is written to give a historical context to the information that Stephen Selby brought back from the museum in Urumqi on some ancient bows. They have not been widely published in Chinese or English, but they are very significant for the study of archery history. Stephen supplied me with the descriptions, but my imagination supplied the reconstructions. I also redrew his sketches so any errors are mine.

The Location

Shanshan County, to the east of Urumqi, is on the Northern Route of the Silk Road, which splits in two to pass the extremely arid Takla Makan Desert. To the East is the Gobi Desert; to the west is the Tarim Basin, which drains the mountains to the north. Its watercourses eventually evaporate in the Takla Makan. Subeshi (Subeixi) is situated to the east of the famous Silk Road town of Turpan (Turfan). Since early exploitation by foreign archaeologists in the nineteenth and early twentieth century, the area has continued to reveal amazing relicts of the past. Modern Chinese archaeologists have revealed more details of the ancient inhabitants and their ways of life. The unique dry conditions have preserved usually perishable artifacts and even the bodies of some of the people buried there.

Remains of later Roman archery equipment have been found in Britain, both grip scales and laths for the ears. However, the Scythian bow would leave no telltale laths in the archaeological records. Even in the heartland of the Scythians, modern Russia and the Ukraine, very few identifiable remains of bows remain.

http://www.atarn.org/chinese/scythian_bows.htm

[seanx]

Have you ever read EVEN one of dave icke's book?

Ever considered the idea of universal consciousness.

The ability to look beyond
form, beyond colur, beyond race, and
beyond differences to the human child smiling there.

How can I put this in simple terms: Fuck off with your race purity
nonsense somwhere else. Quit polluting this forum with this
out-of-date, childish trash.

[december]

Have you ever read EVEN one of dave icke's book?

I did read five Icke books. And I visit his website since 2001.
So, pleeeease, if you have nothing to add to this thread leave us in peace.

[seanx]

Can I suggest you read them again?

[december]

Can I suggest you read them again?

Are you a thought police or a spammer?
Seanx, you actually sound like some Soviet Communist or a Nazi officer who insists on following the party line.

[megafish33]

How can I put this in simple terms: Fuck off with your race purity
nonsense somwhere else. Quit polluting this forum with this
out-of-date, childish trash.

Wow lol... don't hold back, tell them how you really feel! ;)

I agree with everything you said, and there probably isn't a more tactful way to get the "race" idea out of peoples minds, but I don't think anyone said their race was purer than another (if they follow evolution they'll note that there isn't such a thing... who was the purest single celled organism? Who was the purest ray of light? Star dust? lol). Both syn777 and dec have interesting things to post, cool viewpoints/histories, and I, for one, liked reading over it. Of course.... I can see how the subject can get repetitive real fast.

[december]

....but I don't think anyone said their race was purer than another (if they follow evolution they'll note that there isn't such a thing... who was the purest single celled organism?


Gee!!! Can you read English?

We are not even discussing THAT.
Open your eyes, read the posted links and, PLEASE, stop spamming the thread with silly posts.

If you have nothing to say about the subject just don't say anything. Or if you want to learn - ASK A QUESTION.

This is an OFFICIAL David Icke forum, he diged out tons of INFORMATION for people like you.
So be respectful to his works and don't just express your mixed up thoughts.

I have a friend who smokes weed many times a day, he is just like you - he just says things without understanding of what he is actually saying. He just talks....

He is like Zombie...

[cheeb]

You have a friend,
That is amazing,
Is he imaginary,
I'will bet he is called:
Captain Howdy!!

LOL

:D

[seanx]

You don't get it.

Spam some other forum with your race purity nonsense.

It is an INSULT to the ideas that dave icke is trying to explain.

And the stench from these threads is polluting the whole general
page.

I came on this page this eveining - and if I wasn't already a
member, I would have been horrified.

All that I saw was predominantly RACE-HATE threads ( submitted by
the same old faces). ( I counted 5 at 8 O'clock Irish time - evening)

In fact, if I was a moderator, I 'd have your crap assigned to a
new race hate bin thread even before yuo had time to post it.

[seanx]

What is it about you people you can't see beyond a chinese face,
beyond a black face, beyond an arab face, beyond
a jewish face, beyond a Russian face to the SAME human
FACE behind ALL these faces.

A quiet, shy chinese girl.

A quiet, shy English girl.

A quiet, shy African girl.

A quiet, shy arab girl.

A quiet, shy Indian girl.

All about to start school.....


CAN YOU not see the HUMAN BEING behind them all.

You see RACE.

We see CHILDREN.

[anoninnyc]

You don't get it.

Spam some other forum with your race purity nonsense.

It is an INSULT to the ideas that dave icke is trying to explain.

And the stench from these threads is polluting the whole general
page.

I came on this page this eveining - and if I wasn't already a
member, I would have been horrified.

All that I saw was predominantly RACE-HATE threads ( submitted by
the same old faces). ( I counted 5 at 8 O'clock Irish time - evening)

In fact, if I was a moderator, I 'd have your crap assigned to a
new race hate bin thread even before yuo had time to post it.

I get it. And I agree with what you say.

The NWO survives because it divides and conquers.....

[john white]

Don't look at me: I only expose Decembers fucktardness on the occasional thread:

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8958

He breaks out into paranoid hives if I post anywhere near him as it is

PS:

You don't get it.

Spam some other forum with your race purity nonsense.

It is an INSULT to the ideas that dave icke is trying to explain.

And the stench from these threads is polluting the whole general
page.

I came on this page this eveining - and if I wasn't already a
member, I would have been horrified.

All that I saw was predominantly RACE-HATE threads ( submitted by
the same old faces). ( I counted 5 at 8 O'clock Irish time - evening)

In fact, if I was a moderator, I 'd have your crap assigned to a
new race hate bin thread even before you had time to post it.

Damn straight. But then, he is a mind slave

[megafish33]

Gee!!! Can you read English?

We are not even discussing THAT.
Open your eyes, read the posted links and, PLEASE, stop spamming the thread with silly posts.

If you have nothing to say about the subject just don't say anything. Or if you want to learn - ASK A QUESTION.

This is an OFFICIAL David Icke forum, he diged out tons of INFORMATION for people like you.
So be respectful to his works and don't just express your mixed up thoughts.

I have a friend who smokes weed many times a day, he is just like you - he just says things without understanding of what he is actually saying. He just talks....

He is like Zombie...

Hey december,

Yes! I can read English, I use it everyday. :)

I'm fully aware you weren't discussing "THAT" and I never said you were. I was just stating my opinion as to why nothing or nobody is really "pure." Purity comes from the inside, and this was/is what I had to say on the subject. For the record, if you read my whole post, which was written in English BTW, I somewhat defend this threads existence and your dialog with syn777. Maybe I shouldn't have...

I did not disrespect David Icke or his works in anyway so stop saying that I did. I do, in fact, respect David Icke for various reasons not just his digging of information.

My thoughts were not mixed up either. If I feel that I'm not quite sure what to make of a topic I will state so while giving my two cents.

I'm sorry for your friend, but are you at least helping him? Show him another way of life, don't use him to make fun of others online. Get a life.