smoking ban - could your home be next?

[melbo]

Going for smoke: Today's ban is just the start. Could your home be next?
The man behind the ban on smoking in pubs and enclosed public spaces hasn't finished yet. He wants to extend prohibition to private homes. Jonathan Owen reports on a smoking revolution
Published: 01 July 2007
From today, smokers will have to huddle outside in the rain like miserable outcasts because cigarettes have been banned from almost every enclosed public space. But the war is far from over: even in victory the enemies of nicotine intend to show no mercy, fining companies that let their employees drop butts and even hunting down addicts to their own homes.

The Government's top smoking adviser is calling for a new government tobacco task force that can identify anyone who still dares to puff away in apparent privacy and persuade, cajole or bully them into quitting.

Full article here:
http://news.independent.co.uk/health/article2725720.ece

I don't care what your stance on smoking is - but when they start dictating what you can do in your own home, isn't it time to say enough is enough?

[reptilianshapeshifter]

yeah,

The problem with the UK is that you've all gotten yourself into a pickle by being selfish and uneducated. In Sweden its very rare for people to smoke in their own houses and apartments, opting for the door or balcony instead (this doesn't just extend to smoking but other personal hygene effects and basic dieting principles. One reason why most swedes aren't obese or have so many major health issues). Some people smoke under the kitchen fan under the illusion that it actually makes a difference (at least the whole house and furniture doesn't stink of stale tobacco) but at least there's a conscious effort to not let smoking pollute your house hold environment.

The excuse here is "for the kids" and to a point that has to be agreeable. No one would consider that it would be OK for people to smoke other drugs or do whatever they wanted concerning narcotics where children are around. It's only the fact that smoking has been (up to a point) a socially acceptable way of life that it's not been outcast already (same with alcohol).

I don't give a fuck what you do in your own home or in your own personal space. I do feel bad for your kids if you expose them to your habits and it has a knock on effect on their health but that's your responsilibty as a parent, not mine.

I guess what this entails for the UK is regular house inspections from officers coming to check for signs of smoking :D

[parallel]

i smoke and work from my home, am i breaking the law?

[Anders Lindman]

I don't care what your stance on smoking is - but when they start dictating what you can do in your own home, isn't it time to say enough is enough?

Banning smoking in public places has a good purpose, but if they say that it's against the law to smoke in your own home, then that smacks of Orwellian control, or at least something like : "You are too stupid to decide whether to smoke in your own home or not so we the government will decide that for you".

[hagbard_celine]

Banning smoking in public places has a good purpose, but if they say that it's against the law to smoke in your own home, then that smacks of Orwellian control, or at least something like : "You are too stupid to decide whether to smoke in your own home or not so we the government will decide that for you".

Indeed! It's like we're little kids at school who are not mature enough to make informed decisions about our own lifestyle! I say give people the choice; provide smoking areas, isolated to protect non-smokers, but easily accessible to smokers.

Apparently on Guernsey you're allowed to smoke only in your own home! you can't in the garden though because smoking is banned in the open air! It's a joke when you see all these lorries and power stations belching out their noxious pollution.

BTW, I'm a life-long non-smoker.

[newworldorderrebel]

hi new to the david icke forums :

from what some people have told me where i live the local housing association are going to bring in force a no smoking ban in their own properties so could be starting here soon

[i_am]

This is what you can all look forward to::p


Timeline (Queensland)

The new tobacco laws and when they started
1 January 2005
30 September 2005
31 December 2005
1 July 2006

1 January 2005
Non-Residential Building Entrances
No-smoking when standing within 4 metres of an entrance to a non-residential building (eg. bank, shopping centre, office).

Children's Playgrounds
No-smoking within 10 metres of outdoor children's playground equipment, that is ordinarily open to the public.

Major Sports Stadiums
No-smoking in any of the stadiums managed by the Major Sports Facilities Authority including:

Suncorp Stadium
The Gabba
Queensland Sport and Athletics Centre (formerly ANZ Stadium)
Sleeman Centre
Brisbane Entertainment Centre
Dairy Farmers Stadium
Patrolled Beaches
No-smoking between the flags at patrolled beaches.

Artificial Beaches
No-smoking at artificial beaches, including:

South Bank Beach (Brisbane)
Settlement Cove Lagoon (Redcliffe)
Airlie Beach Lagoon
Rockpool (Townsville)
Esplanade Lagoon (Cairns)
Indoor Smoking Bans
At least one third of the whole enclosed area of a liquor licensed premises must be no-smoking.

Poker Machines
At least one third of all poker machines at a liquor licensed premises must be no-smoking.

Cannabis Utensils
A person must not produce, sell or publicly display a cannabis utensil, commonly known as a 'bong.'


30 September 2005
Indoor Smoking Bans
At least two thirds of the whole enclosed area of a liquor licensed premises must be no-smoking.

Poker Machines
At least two thirds of all poker machines at a liquor licensed premises must be no-smoking.


31 December 2005
Tobacco displays in retail outlets
Only one tobacco product display at each retail outlet. The maximum size of this display to be 1 square metre for general retailers and 3 square metres for tobacconists. Cigarette cartons cannot be on display.

Youth smoking
Children must not falsely represent their age for the purpose of being sold cigarettes and other tobacco products.

Tobacco vending machines
Machines must be located in within 1 metre of a poker machine.


1 July 2006
Indoor Smoking Bans
The whole enclosed area of liquor licensed premises must be no-smoking.

Poker Machines
All poker machines at a liquor licensed premises must be no-smoking.

Outdoor Smoking Bans
Non-enclosed eating and drinking areas where food or drink is provided as part of a business, must be no-smoking.

Pubs, clubs and casinos may set aside Designated Outdoor Smoking Areas where only smoking and drinking can occur. These areas must be under the control of a Smoking Management Plan for the venue.


This page last updated: June 2006
Review date: September 2006


I am a non smoker and I must say it is good to be able to go out and not go home stinking of cigarette smoke. I have just been to lunch with a smoker friend and I have no problem sitting outside with her while she has a smoke. I also hate it when the smokers are treated like lepers.

It has been fazed in here over a couple of years and most people are ok with it now.

I must admit that when I was in the UK last year, I really noticed the difference when people were smoking in areas where you ate. Also I nearly choked at Brixton Academy when I walked out into the foyer at breaks :eek: :D

[montag]

I don't give a fuck what you do in your own home or in your own personal space.
Glad to hear it..

[lottie]

I have also heard 'they' are talking about banning smoking in cars too!! so they are going to stop me from smoking in my own property!! :mad: despite the fact that i rarely have any passengers and if i do i am always considerate of them if they are a non-smoker and wont inflict my smoke on them! the annoying thing is being TOLD im not allowed to smoke in my own property....that goes for my house too- we dont smoke indoors we smoke at the back door but we reserve that right to chose to do that- we do not need to be TOLD we cant smoke in our property!!
i have no problem with not smoking in enclosed spaces, thats entirely fair imo- its just a shame we all couldnt come to this conclusion ourselves without a 'law' imposed to tell us to do it!! my friend also made a comment yesterday when he said why dont they just use the tax from cigarrettes and alcohol to go to the NHS!! i thought that was a great idea - he's a non-smoker but like he said as we were sat in the car (stationary)...."its your car if you want to smoke in it im perfectly capable of getting out!!" i said thanks but i got out and smoked my fag!! its just curteous and its nice to smoke in the fresh air...i smoke but i dont necessarily like the smoke that comes off it and it does smell....!! as far as the smoking ban goes- im in agreement- but thats where it stops- if it continues to take away people choices as long as they arnt inflicted on others who dont smoke then im going to dig my heels in.... the orwellian control is already here!

[lightbeing]

I have also heard 'they' are talking about banning smoking in cars too!! so they are going to stop me from smoking in my own property!! :mad: despite the fact that i rarely have any passengers and if i do i am always considerate of them if they are a non-smoker and wont inflict my smoke on them! the annoying thing is being TOLD im not allowed to smoke in my own property....that goes for my house too- we dont smoke indoors we smoke at the back door but we reserve that right to chose to do that- we do not need to be TOLD we cant smoke in our property!!
i have no problem with not smoking in enclosed spaces, thats entirely fair imo- its just a shame we all couldnt come to this conclusion ourselves without a 'law' imposed to tell us to do it!! my friend also made a comment yesterday when he said why dont they just use the tax from cigarrettes and alcohol to go to the NHS!! i thought that was a great idea - he's a non-smoker but like he said as we were sat in the car (stationary)...."its your car if you want to smoke in it im perfectly capable of getting out!!" i said thanks but i got out and smoked my fag!! its just curteous and its nice to smoke in the fresh air...i smoke but i dont necessarily like the smoke that comes off it and it does smell....!! as far as the smoking ban goes- im in agreement- but thats where it stops- if it continues to take away people choices as long as they arnt inflicted on others who dont smoke then im going to dig my heels in.... the orwellian control is already here!

Hi there lotts:)

This whole smoking ban is getting stupid, it would be outrageous if they tried to extend it to your home & cars:mad:, people have the right to do what they want in there own space.
Indeed the police state is here now.................:mad:

[lottie]

thanks LB and that coming from a non-smoker is all the more reassuring!! :)

also- i hasten to add.....while we are all bickering and moaning (me included!!) about the smoking ban.....i wonder how that EU treaty is coming along Mr Brown? great distraction this smoking ban.....:rolleyes:

[lookfar]

thanks LB and that coming from a non-smoker is all the more reassuring!! :)

also- i hasten to add.....while we are all bickering and moaning (me included!!) about the smoking ban.....i wonder how that EU treaty is coming along Mr Brown? great distraction this smoking ban.....:rolleyes:

Hey Lotts honey :)

Yep good point there. This has been a good ploy to get the masses bickering amongst themselves & turning their attention away from the more serious matters taking place, whilst also curbing our freedom & setting people against eachother at the same time!!:mad:

[auron]

http://www.sonofthesouth.net/uncle-sam/images/funny-no-smoking-sign.jpg

[lottie]

i think that should say..... 'I WANT YOU TO BE A ROBOT' :D

[montag]

Smoking Helps Protect Against Lung Cancer

http://www.vialls.com/transpositions/smoking.html

[auron]

Smoking Helps Protect Against Lung Cancer

http://www.vialls.com/transpositions/smoking.html
I read that article yesterday! I think there is definitely some truth to it.

[Anders Lindman]

Governments make laws that act as a broad brush painting the overall regulations for society. In some cases that is a good and effective thing. Banning smoking in public places is imo something that is appropriate. But when they use that same brush to regulate smoking in people's own homes, then that is a big clumsy brush painting sticky paint all over the face of individuals.

[truthsayer]

Actually, many rented accomadations have been no smoking for years. My brother has to go outside to smoke as a result and has a plant pot for his cig. butts, years before the ban came into play.

Also, I have seen many parents puffing smoke into the childrens face and it always irks me to see it.

All that said, I can see both sides here.

I see there needs to be a reasonable ban for the benefit of the non-smoker, long term health and of course the impact on kids, but at the same time, this current governement keeps crossing the line of whats reasonable in terms of allowing us to make choices as individuals; adult choices about our own health even down to whether we take supplements. It really is too close to 1984 for comfort

One day there will be no choices left and what we have now are finite.

[yorkiebe]

HI All

Theres a rabbit away somewhere that were all missing regards this smoking issue, if they are going to make such a big deal about smoking then they really need to shut down all industry out there as thats far more polution we are breathing, Also anything the controls that be focus on to such an extent means something is happening for a reason somewhere or it woudnt get the time of day in publicity and marketing tactics, but stanglely enough nobody mentions that. Whats most interesting to me about the smoking issue is that somebody discovered somewhere that the reps and similar hate smoke as it effects them negativley in some way??? so work that one out then!

regards Julie

[reptilianshapeshifter]

lol, i can just see the big 12 foot reptiles moaning about having to sit in cafes with stuffy smoky atmospheres while on the lookout for virgins to eat:D

[travisbickle]

The smoke ban is nothing but a deprivation of our liberties yet we have all these fucking sheeple falling over themselves to pat the ban architects on the back. Go sit in your car in the garage and attach a hosepipe to the exhaust and the other end to a closed window of the car, you'll be dead in 2 minutes. Go in the garage and chain smoke fifty five thousand cigarettes and I'll bet my house you'll still be alive. Cars are destroying the environment, our towns, our lungs and the juice to power them has started more wars than Ghengis Khan. Twelve thousand people were brutally murdered on UK roads last year too.

fuck you anti smoking motherfuckers, how many of you drive?

[reptilianshapeshifter]

I drive and I'm a fucking nazi, so suck it:D

I bet you smoke and drive. That makes you the worse kind :D

[john white]

Its not about smoking, thats just the excuse: its about getting people in society to police each other and getting authority into any home whenever they feel like it: big brother is giving away faux power in order to seize REAL power

(and arn't the non-smoker robots loving it! "Ohh you should give up you know!" (Inner monologue: NON CONFORMIST NON CONFORMIST WE KNOW WHO YOU ARE then psychological rush for being "Good"))

Yep, pre fascist society conditioning

[travisbickle]

I drive and I'm a fucking nazi, so suck it:D

I bet you smoke and drive. That makes you the worse kind :D

I smoke but don't drive, no license, got a very nice push bike though. I come from a small community of two thousand people and could list you ten people under the age of 45 who have been slaughtered on the roads in the last decade alone. I'm in my thirties and don't know anyone yet who has died of lung cancer. No doubt there are many people out there who could reverse this statistic but that's what I've experienced.

[truthsayer]

I smoke but don't drive, no license, got a very nice push bike though. I come from a small community of two thousand people and could list you ten people under the age of 45 who have been slaughtered on the roads in the last decade alone. I'm in my thirties and don't know anyone yet who has died of lung cancer. No doubt there are many people out there who could reverse this statistic but that's what I've experienced.

I have to concur with this. I live in a large Town and I see/hear of more road accidents/killings then death by cancer and I've lost my own father to it (kidney cancer)

You just know this isn't about our health (although there is no doubt that there are health benefits in giving up smoking) its just part of their agenda.

Its not about smoking, thats just the excuse: its about getting people in society to police each other and getting authority into any home whenever they feel like it: big brother is giving away faux power in order to seize REAL power

(and arn't the non-smoker robots loving it! "Ohh you should give up you know!" (Inner monologue: NON CONFORMIST NON CONFORMIST WE KNOW WHO YOU ARE then psychological rush for being "Good"))

Yep, pre fascist society conditioning

Agreed. There's just too much revenue in people smoking for it not to be about their agenda.

The self policing has already begun look at the recent case in Blackburn. Whats more powerful then people policing people? The fear that drives them to police each other.

[synergy777]

i think one shall buy a pipe like sherlock holmes, get a tweed cap and jacket and buy a jag and drive around, sticking two fingers up to the reserve nazis (public), lol. its all about control, conditioning. its a slippery slope, and we are hurtling down it.

[auron]

http://bureaucrash.com/system/files/images/Smoking+Is+Healthier+Than+Fascism+800+x+600.previe w.gif

http://members.shaw.ca/wenpigsfly/smileys/marsa37.gif

[notaslave]

They cannot possibly police a policy of no-smoking in your own home. They cannot even insist you stop smoking half an hour (or an hour) before a worker visits your council home.

The members of my extended family who have stopped smoking, have suffered poor health since. High blood pressure seems to be a particular side effect. Say what you like but I'm not running the gauntlet of winter flu bugs for anyone lol. In my whole adult life I've had flu once.

They attempt to stop me smoking in the privacy of my home and they can jail me ... where incidentally I will be allowed to smoke as well as get three cooked meals a day and not have to worry about heating bills in winter.

I'm with Vialls on this, there are benefits to smoking and the only real side effect I have noticed (ie passive smoking) is gross intolerance towards smokers.

[synergy777]

you have the viallis article bro, cheers.

[truthsayer]

They cannot possibly police a policy of no-smoking in your own home. They cannot even insist you stop smoking half an hour (or an hour) before a worker visits your council home.

Its more likely they'll get Jo public to police themselves, like they've begun with the -so called- terrorist threat.

The members of my extended family who have stopped smoking, have suffered poor health since. High blood pressure seems to be a particular side effect. Say what you like but I'm not running the gauntlet of winter flu bugs for anyone lol. In my whole adult life I've had flu once.I can't agree with this just from having smokers in my own family, and they have all suffered far more illness then myself. My brother has been ill for months now and is currently been tested for cancer (as well as other things, but I won't go into details to save his pride); he's 30 and a close friend of his has just finished treatment for mouth cancer which was a result of smoking.

I would like to add that regardless of being a non smoker I still believe that people have the right to smoke if they choose. It should be their right to choose whether I agree with smoking or not. As it is my right to choose not to smoke as well as not be subjected to second hand smoke.

They attempt to stop me smoking in the privacy of my home and they can jail me ... where incidentally I will be allowed to smoke as well as get three cooked meals a day and not have to worry about heating bills in winter.I would concur with this, its outlandish to tell anyone what to do in their own home of this nature.

I'm with Vialls on this, there are benefits to smoking and the only real side effect I have noticed (ie passive smoking) is gross intolerance towards smokers.I think your over generlising the public.

Many smokers are very ignorant to non-smokers and that is what creates an intolerance, but not all non-smokers are without empathy (myself included).

You want to smoke; fine you've every right to, but as I said, I have every right to choose not to smoke, and having second hand smoke blown in my face (like when waiting for a bus, for example) is pretty intollerable.

However, as I said, I still feel its your right to choose whether your wish to smoke or not and I do feel this smoking ban has crossed a line of whats reasonable in implementing it. Especially since its not an out-and-out full ban on smoking in relation to it's leaglity; its not ileagal to smoke and the conduct of this Goverment regarding the ban is verging on that.

[truthseeker1980]

I agree with John White, it's to get us used to, other far more draconian laws they have planned for us over the next 5 years.

The no smoking in homes thing though, if it does surface could be the excuse they use to plant CCTV camera's in every council and rented building.

I have thought about this for while, all they need is to create a follow on law, let's say the smoking in cars one, which seems like its going to happen.

But how would they police it?

As they find it hard enough policing driving whilst on the phone. That PROBLEM would then create a REACTION, which could then open up another avenue for enforcement, or another reason for the new satnav tax terminal they want to fit to every car, they may decide that we have to have a smoke detector in there too or even a camera. A few months later after the masses are slowly getting used to it, they could then say it's against the law to smoke at home.

Then the SOLUTION because everyone is so used to having a tracker on their car and having to scan an ID card when they buy anything, in other words so used to being monitored, that the fight for being able to smoke in your home would be over as they could force all smokers to have CCTV installed, as they would know who the smokers are as they know what everyone is buying.

If that didn't work they could spin the global warming crap again and create an energy saving tax, which would entail a CCTV camera in every home to make sure you are saving energy.

The future is bleak the future's BROWN, the heaviest taxes have come from this man, which why i have been pondering the above.

[notaslave]

I don't give a fuck what you do in your own home or in your own personal space. I do feel bad for your kids if you expose them to your habits and it has a knock on effect on their health but that's your responsilibty as a parent, not mine.


What fecking impact on kids health? I think you are listening too much to the propaganda my friend.

I grew up in a smoke filled home. Babies were nurtured there - five to be exact. Grandchildren too until my parents decided to stop smoking. People have smoked for donkeys years.

Passive smoking is a figment of the imagination. Crabbit sods that cant pay for their own cigarettes (which would probably make them less crabbit) so wont let others enjoy theirs.

I'll keep on puffing.

[truthsayer]

Passive smoking is a figment of the imagination.

Try telling that to Roy Castle who died from passive smoking and campaigned for awareness because at the time passive smoking was completely dismissed. Not all information is false information. Some of the health issues raised have some bearing in logic and more importantly; truth.

Simple example, you're caught in a fire, you inhale enough smoke and your likely to die. Add toxins to smoke such as arsenic for example and breath enough in over a period of time it tends to have an impact on your health that includes children exposed to the second hand smoke of their parents.

Not everything is propaganda and manipulation, a lot yes, but not everything.

[notaslave]

I base my finding on what I see around me and you can base yours on whatever you like. So many lies are told in all areas of our lives that I prefer to base my findings on what I have experienced for myself.

Example - I stick my hand on the iron and it burns my hand, therefore I know hot things will hurt.

My family and those of my friends and neighbours who smoked have generally better health than those who have smoked and have stopped. That is my findings and that is what I will base my beliefs upon. You dont have to agree, its not necessary for me to have you share my belief but please dont attempt to tell me my findings are wrong. Cos they bloody well arent.

Here's what I have in my background a husband (now ex) who gave up smoking when he was 34/5 within a year developed high blood pressure. Both my parents developed high blood pressure a year to two years after stopping smoking. I have had low-normal blood pressure all my life (even during two pregnancies). General good health within the extended family aside from my grandson (who I still think is vaccine damaged). 31 yr old daughter stopped smoking over a year ago and has been ill every 6-8 weeks since, stomach bugs mainly. (Even she says she has never been so ill as since she gave up!) My parents catch every cold going.

I grew up in a smoke filled environment caught chickenpox and mumps and had to have my tonsils out other than that I have been fairly healthy. Same with the rest of my family.


As I say I'll keep puffing.

[notaslave]

I can't agree with this just from having smokers in my own family, and they have all suffered far more illness then myself. My brother has been ill for months now and is currently been tested for cancer (as well as other things, but I won't go into details to save his pride); he's 30 and a close friend of his has just finished treatment for mouth cancer which was a result of smoking.

I'm sorry to hear about your family member's ill health.

I'm not being pedantic here but I would ask what employment they are in or have done. I say this because I know semi-conductors are bad for people's health (many cancer related deaths) and I also say this from some background information I got when I worked for welfare rights. We had a man come and give us a talk on how employment screws up the health, ie he called the sewing manufacturing industry the stitch you up trade because it usually b*ggers up the machinists hands (RSI).

The most important thing he taught us was how the G.P's covered up the miner's ill health for many decades. They knew but hid it from the public - probably orders from above - however this man who fought for miners compensation and tunnel workers compo he did not have a high opinion of G.P's at all and had paper evidence of the cover-ups.

From the day we spent with him and ever since I have asked what job someone did when they met a premature end or suffered poor health as I really do believe things on that front are still covered up.

[truthsayer]

I'm sorry to hear about your family member's ill health.

I'm not being pedantic here but I would ask what employment they are in or have done. I say this because I know semi-conductors are bad for people's health (many cancer related deaths) and I also say this from some background information I got when I worked for welfare rights. We had a man come and give us a talk on how employment screws up the health, ie he called the sewing manufacturing industry the stitch you up trade because it usually b*ggers up the machinists hands (RSI).

Various work. One of them works from home as he has his own buisness. Lives in a beautiful house out in the country. Was a chain smoker, but doesn't smoke anymore.

My brother works in retail, also smokes (trying to cut down though because everytime he does smoke he says he feels ten times worse.)

My mum, who has never smoked in her life suffers from hypertension/very high blood pressure, which is a result of the stress she went through from caring for my dad on her own as well as battling the system for support and medicine. My father was home bound with a disablilty before he had cancer. A lorry fell on his back when he was young (through his job) and he was medically reitred by the age of 25.

So you see from my own family and observations of others I only see a pattern of illness in smokers, with non-smokers its circumstances/environmetal or genetic.

In Roy Castles case it was his working environment that killed him. He was a TV presenter firstly and was made famous through this and did a lot of charity work. Spent a lot of his working time in pubs and clubs through his work and of course these were smoke filled. Personally he didn't smoke, but died of lung cancer, but not before campaigning for awareness of the dangers of passive smoking, which at the time was completely dimissed by the very people who've now placed the ban on smokers.

But all that said, there are so many factors in an individual that I don't think smoking can bear the full burden of people getting cancer. There are many other factors to consider, life style, enviornment, family health history/genetics, etc.

The most important thing he taught us was how the G.P's covered up the miner's ill health for many decades. They knew but hid it from the public - probably orders from above - however this man who fought for miners compensation and tunnel workers compo he did not have a high opinion of G.P's at all and had paper evidence of the cover-ups.Well given that our family Doctor told my dad to stop wasting his time and refused to diagnose him all the while having a tumour I have little to no faith in GP's either. It took nine months for my dad to get daignosed (by another doctor from another surgery) and by that time the tumour in his kidney was so large it was touching the top of his back.

The worset part is, at first he was told it was a result of a water born virus, later they went back on that statement because of the obvious implications.

From the day we spent with him and ever since I have asked what job someone did when they met a premature end or suffered poor health as I really do believe things on that front are still covered up.That makes perfect sense. As I said their are many factors to consider, not just smoking.

[eternal_spirit]

HI All

Theres a rabbit away somewhere that were all missing regards this smoking issue, if they are going to make such a big deal about smoking then they really need to shut down all industry out there as thats far more polution we are breathing, Also anything the controls that be focus on to such an extent means something is happening for a reason somewhere or it woudnt get the time of day in publicity and marketing tactics, but stanglely enough nobody mentions that. Whats most interesting to me about the smoking issue is that somebody discovered somewhere that the reps and similar hate smoke as it effects them negativley in some way??? so work that one out then!

regards Julie

I've never seen any pics or storys of reps humans smoking. Only Churchill(possible rep) with his cigar. As most humans know cigars are foul.

[gods sun]

the smoke ban i very hard to inforce its basically impossible one officer said to me, if they catch you smoking on the job if they dont then you get away with it simple as just like a parking ticket if they see you park in the wrong place and see your car if they dont your lucky. there not gonna go round taking swobs in taxis buses etc for nicotine just wastes there time. plus if they inforce it in homes again it would be stupid idea cause it will be impossible to control.

[furi]

As far as I am aware in the UK, if your home is a workplace then you are not technically supposed to smoke in the designated work area. This also applies to Vehicles if you are a driver. Prisoners can smoke in their cells, but prison officers have to leave the premises to smoke.

I smoke, I am not partic bothered about the general workplace ban (The pub ban sucks big time, what was wrong with having physically seperate rooms or selective pubs) but a general home ban well I'll be in the line with a revolutionary fervour (already am, but a one man war is rather crap odds), also if they had ALSO banned it from the Commons bar that would at least remove the resentment a micron.

If they really want to stop it, Ban the import of tobacco and classify it as a Class A drug with a prison sentance for posession. (of course then the state will buy my fags for me to smoke in prison whilst I am weaned off it)

[notaslave]

Objective To measure the relation between environmental tobacco smoke, as estimated by smoking in spouses, and long term mortality from tobacco related disease.

Design Prospective cohort study covering 39 years.

Setting Adult population of California, United States.

Participants 118 094 adults enrolled in late 1959 in the American Cancer Society cancer prevention study (CPS I), who were followed until 1998. Particular focus is on the 35 561 never smokers who had a spouse in the study with known smoking habits.

Main outcome measures Relative risks and 95% confidence intervals for deaths from coronary heart disease, lung cancer, and chronic obstructive pulmonary disease related to smoking in spouses and active cigarette smoking.

Results For participants followed from 1960 until 1998 the age adjusted relative risk (95% confidence interval) for never smokers married to ever smokers compared with never smokers married to never smokers was 0.94 (0.85 to 1.05) for coronary heart disease, 0.75 (0.42 to 1.35) for lung cancer, and 1.27 (0.78 to 2.08) for chronic obstructive pulmonary disease among 9619 men, and 1.01 (0.94 to 1.08), 0.99 (0.72 to 1.37), and 1.13 (0.80 to 1.58), respectively, among 25 942 women. No significant associations were found for current or former exposure to environmental tobacco smoke before or after adjusting for seven confounders and before or after excluding participants with pre-existing disease. No significant associations were found during the shorter follow up periods of 1960-5, 1966-72, 1973-85, and 1973-98.

Conclusions The results do not support a causal relation between environmental tobacco smoke and tobacco related mortality, although they do not rule out a small effect. The association between exposure to environmental tobacco smoke and coronary heart disease and lung cancer may be considerably weaker than generally believed.
http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/326/7398/1057?maxtoshow=&HITS=10&hits=10&RESULTFORMAT=1&author1=Enstrom&searchid=1063319549099_12436&stored_search=&FIRSTINDEX=0&sortspec=relevance&resourcetype=1,2,3,4,10http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/326/7398/1057?maxtoshow=&HITS=10&hits=10&RESULTFORMAT=1&author1=Enstrom&searchid=1063319549099_12436&stored_search=&FIRSTINDEX=0&sortspec=relevance&resourcetype=1,2,3,4,10

[notaslave]

Many years ago I had a "thing" for Pledge furniture polish, and I dusted everything daily with it cos I really liked the smell LOL.

When my children were babies (late 1970's) I stopped using it because I instinctively knew it wasnt good for them .... but I continued puffing around them cos I also instinctively knew I was causing them no harm.

[truthsayer]

Many years ago I had a "thing" for Pledge furniture polish, and I dusted everything daily with it cos I really liked the smell LOL.

When my children were babies (late 1970's) I stopped using it because I instinctively knew it wasnt good for them .... but I continued puffing around them cos I also instinctively knew I was causing them no harm.

I find it interesting that aside from your belief that smoke containg poisions would do no harm that you don't consider smoke on its own a harm. Again, I refer back to the fire and smoke example.

Smoke alone does and can kill even before you had poisons and chemicals.

You give examples of your belief from a Goverment that manipulates and steers the truth to their own ends as your argument that smoking is okay.

I simply can't agree with you, but I respect others choice to smoke as I expect them to respect my choice not to. Thats my only real gripe about smokers, otherwise I have no problem with it.

[reptilianshapeshifter]

I don't draw conclusions about smoking or not smoking either preventing or causing ill health because there are too many variables in play to make a lay-mans educated judgement.

My fathers side of the family generally seem to be healthier then my mothers side of the family and there is a mix or smokers and non smokers alike. Including ex-smokers.

I think genetics plays a role in your health.

I am a non smoker and am always in good health but I am prone to catching colds. I probably get 2 a year. Maybe just 1 in a good year.

When i was unemployed and my kids weren't at day school I never got sick. Ever.

I don't suffer any other health issues at all.

My ex girlfriend's family are all chain smokers and suffer extremely poor health between them. I think other social factors like diet and alcohol have a much bigger part to play in general health.

I like the smoking ban in pubs but was not against smoking rooms inside buildings. We have this policy in sweden and it's fine. Every one is much happier. A lot of places don't have smoking rooms though.

I wouldn't subject or want my kids subjected to fag smoke (i don't smoke). You can't tell me that all the chemicals and crap that go in those things are totally risk free in the long run!?!!

I get the impression certain people on this forum spin and play out the information depending on what suits them at the time. First they don't trust companies selling pharmaceuticals because it's all about money and makes our health worse, than the same big illuminati corporations are actually protecting our health with cigarettes (which are non addictive *cough*) and now don't want us smoking them after all because they made a mistake (while making billions of $$$). Give me a break.

[reptilianshapeshifter]

What fecking impact on kids health? I think you are listening too much to the propaganda my friend.

I grew up in a smoke filled home. Babies were nurtured there - five to be exact. Grandchildren too until my parents decided to stop smoking. People have smoked for donkeys years.

Passive smoking is a figment of the imagination. Crabbit sods that cant pay for their own cigarettes (which would probably make them less crabbit) so wont let others enjoy theirs.

I'll keep on puffing.

Since you are keen to point out that you base your judgements on what you see around you I will also counteract that with the same.

I do not react well to cigarette smoke at all. I get headaches from it and sore eyes and have done since as long as I remember.

When i worked in an office in holland in 2001 people were constantly smoking in that place and I used to come out green and constantly feeling sick. because they had no where to sit me away from the smoke, the banned smoking in the office block where I worked and the problem disappeared.

Obviously not everyone is affected by passive smoking in the same way but it sets of something inside me (and some other people) that is obviously not healthy.

I can smell a smoker as soon as one walks in the room. It's on their clothes, in their hair and their breath usually smells of it too. Most smokers don't notice it. Probably something to do with making your sense of smell less. I certainly wouldn't want my kids walking around like that thanks to me, if i was a smoker. talk about freedom of choice.

[lottie]

I agree we are all entiltled to our opinions etc....but the fact of the matter is- there are thousands of people dying all around the world due to starvation and disease,poverty and all sorts and the government couldnt care less about these people yet they are pushing the fact that smoking is bad and that we should look after our health. its hypocritical, with all the money in the world we could stop this nonsense but if they really cared about 'people' regardless of ethnic origin, they'd sort the starving out first! its a joke as far as im concerned!! they dont care about us- we are cattle- if they did they wouldnt be putting poisons in our foods, water, air, etc etc!! smoking and its related health affects is a drop in the ocean compared to the problems in the world!

[reptilianshapeshifter]

I agree we are all entiltled to our opinions etc....but the fact of the matter is- there are thousands of people dying all around the world due to starvation and disease,poverty and all sorts and the government couldnt care less about these people yet they are pushing the fact that smoking is bad and that we should look after our health. its hypocritical, with all the money in the world we could stop this nonsense but if they really cared about 'people' regardless of ethnic origin, they'd sort the starving out first! its a joke as far as im concerned!! they dont care about us- we are cattle- if they did they wouldnt be putting poisons in our foods, water, air, etc etc!! smoking and its related health affects is a drop in the ocean compared to the problems in the world!

huh? I find that a very trite argument and one that can presented every time we don't like something that the government passes as law.

How pushing a non smoking ban or not helps or doesn't help world problems I don't know. But by very nature countries have their own laws and agenda to sort out their own problems.

While i agree with what you say as a statement of fact I don't think it's a credible argument to throw back in the face of the government. "ooh what about world hunger? why are you worrying about this."

I bet for all the worlds problems you aren't exactly typing your reply from a mud hut in africa while taking a 5 minute well deserverd break from saving starving children.:D

[lottie]

huh? I find that a very trite argument and one that can presented every time we don't like something that the government passes as law.

How pushing a non smoking ban or not helps or doesn't help world problems I don't know. But by very nature countries have their own laws and agenda to sort out their own problems.

While i agree with what you say as a statement of fact I don't think it's a credible argument to throw back in the face of the government. "ooh what about world hunger? why are you worrying about this."

I bet for all the worlds problems you aren't exactly typing your reply from a mud hut in africa while taking a 5 minute well deserverd break from saving starving children.:D

true but if i could change the situation, if i had the power- i would!! other countries have the power to change things but they dont... i think it is a good argument to throw in the face of the government.

anyway- we'll all moan about the smoking ban whilst we stand outside where we're 'supposed to' and do as we are told anyway!! :rolleyes:

[i_am]

anyway- we'll all moan about the smoking ban whilst we stand outside where we're 'supposed to' and do as we are told anyway!! :rolleyes:

Actually the smokers I know think it is pretty cool to have to leave the building for a smoke. It is a real social gathering and they are getting out of work for ten minutes every time they take a smoke break. I do believe that productivity has improved :D

[notaslave]

huh? I find that a very trite argument and one that can presented every time we don't like something that the government passes as law.

How pushing a non smoking ban or not helps or doesn't help world problems I don't know. But by very nature countries have their own laws and agenda to sort out their own problems.

While i agree with what you say as a statement of fact I don't think it's a credible argument to throw back in the face of the government. "ooh what about world hunger? why are you worrying about this."

I bet for all the worlds problems you aren't exactly typing your reply from a mud hut in africa while taking a 5 minute well deserverd break from saving starving children.:D

I dont find that a trite argument at all.

The situation is that most of the western world have/are introducing a smoking ban around the same time. Concern for our health? Pffft rubbish.

Poverty exists in every country that has introduced/ or is about to introduce the smoking ban.

Poverty is a big killer.

You already mentioned that you thought diet played a part, well how about poverty and diet?

You worry about fag smoke lol.

[notaslave]

You give examples of your belief from a Goverment that manipulates and steers the truth to their own ends as your argument that smoking is okay.


The fact is governments do manipulate and steer the truth, but that is not why I think smoking is okay. If I gave you that impression then it was wrong because it most definately isnt what I believe.

They lie, so I go with my own experience of life and from what I see by my own evidence.

[reptilianshapeshifter]

Diet by it's very nature is a personal choice (in the western world). I'm much less affected and find less distate in the waft of a burger from someone's plate than being surrounded several smokers blowing crap around the place.

The point of the matter is, alcohol and cigarettes are merely socially acceptable because it's always been done. Would we be taking the same kind of arguments about people shooting up heroin or smoking other drugs in public had they been part of the establishment for as long as anyone could remember? "OOh i always smoked crack around my kids, never did them any harm!", "You don't have to work in a pub if you don't like picking up dirty needles after people! Stop taking away my freedom of choice".

Farting never killed anyone yet the social outraged (caused by smokers alike) if i let one off in public. How could i do so something so selfish and embarassing???? Causing such an unpleasant smell and all.

Yes people should stop worrying about taxes - there's diet and poverty in the world.

Let's not worry about globalisation when there's diet and poverty to consider.

In fact, I don't see many forums in this place catering for diet and poverty. Why worry about all the other nonsense when there's diet and poverty to consider first!!!

[notaslave]

Diet by it's very nature is a personal choice (in the western world). I'm much less affected and find less distate in the waft of a burger from someone's plate than being surrounded several smokers blowing crap around the place.

Poverty dictates what you can buy - if you dont believe that can I interest you in the sale of the Forth Road Bridge ?- I am selling at a knock-down price.

The point of the matter is, alcohol and cigarettes are merely socially acceptable because it's always been done. Would we be taking the same kind of arguments about people shooting up heroin or smoking other drugs in public had they been part of the establishment for as long as anyone could remember? "OOh i always smoked crack around my kids, never did them any harm!", "You don't have to work in a pub if you don't like picking up dirty needles after people! Stop taking away my freedom of choice".

When you are drawn to equating cigarettes to shooting up heroin your lost

Farting never killed anyone yet the social outraged (caused by smokers alike) if i let one off in public. How could i do so something so selfish and embarassing???? Causing such an unpleasant smell and all.

Yes people should stop worrying about taxes - there's diet and poverty in the world.

Let's not worry about globalisation when there's diet and poverty to consider.

In fact, I don't see many forums in this place catering for diet and poverty. Why worry about all the other nonsense when there's diet and poverty to consider first!!!

No but poverty should be considered first.

[notaslave]

Woman overdoses on a few packets of cigarettes. :p

[reptilianshapeshifter]

Poverty dictates what you can buy - if you dont believe that can I interest you in the sale of the Forth Road Bridge ?- I am selling at a knock-down price.



When you are drawn to equating cigarettes to shooting up heroin your lost



No but poverty should be considered first.

At the end of the day your agenda is that smoking does no harm whatsoever and most smokers are much healthier than non-smoking counterparts, based on your immediate environment. Not a very scientific way to look at things, but there you go. And I'm the one that's "lost" just because I smoking to other forms of body-abuse.

I notice you only actually pick at the things you disagree with and don't actually comment on anything else that I say. Is it by the same nature that if you can discredit one thing I say in the entire post that everything I say must be nonsense?

Maybe a big part of the smoking problem is not that everyone is scared by the health risks (i couldn't give a shit about your health or anyone else's in the grand scheme of things) but the fact that smokers account for less than 35% of the population and a large part of the rest of that population just find it very uncomfortable and not a nice thing to have constantly around in public?

I don't see how implementing a smoking ban affects the problem of poverty. Are you saying then that if we tackled poverty with the same vigour and finance that we would have solved it in the same amount of time it took to implement a smoking ban?:D Don't be so ridiculous.

There are always other problems to solve "in the greater scheme" of things. Doesn't mean we shouldn't solve other problems.

I bet you've spent far more energy whining about a public smoking ban than anything you've done to help solve poverty.

[lottie]

i understand what you are saying- its great to tackle one problem if you can- i am a smoker and im not opposed to the smoking ban in enclosed public spaces but if it goes any further (ie- your own car/home) then i will be opposed!! but i really dont see this ban as a 'health issue' as its being sold as- i think its more to do with control! i would have and often have in the past moved to smoke rather than smoke near a family eating on another table close by so i dont inflict my smoke on their kids- regardless that they are sat there smoking over their own kids- i just think its a shame we had to have a law passed to 'BAN' us from smoking- we should all be able to be considerate of others and out of courtesy not smoke over those who dont like it!

[sidewinder]

I'm happy with the smoking ban, because the smell of cigarettes is just awful and my girlfriend and family can't agree more. I don't care whether or not you smoke at your own place, but when it comes to public places (transport, buildings, etc.), the smoking ban is a good thing. There's little more annoying than someone walking down the street with a cigarette in his/her hand, while leaving a trail of bad smell. Take some other drugs that don't smell if you'd like and go fuck up your body, I couldn't care less, but leave that awful smell at your place, don't take it into my personal space. The're very few things that make me feel uncomfortable, but this one is defintately on the list. What would people say when I'm walking through town with a skunk on my back, leaving trails of bad air? Right, they'd tell me to fuck off. Don't take it personally, I get the same 'reaction' with traffic; walking behind a truck isn't better either. Make some cars that drive on air/water/free energy or whatever, I'll be happy when the smell goes away.

[notaslave]

At the end of the day your agenda is that smoking does no harm whatsoever and most smokers are much healthier than non-smoking counterparts, based on your immediate environment. Not a very scientific way to look at things, but there you go. And I'm the one that's "lost" just because I smoking to other forms of body-abuse.

I notice you only actually pick at the things you disagree with and don't actually comment on anything else that I say. Is it by the same nature that if you can discredit one thing I say in the entire post that everything I say must be nonsense?
You have shifted rather with the ease of a reptilian shape shifter away from the fact that you equated smoking to heroin use. I have watched your tactics throughout this forum and they are consistent. Have you heard of a teenager dying from taking their first "E" (mbassy regal)? I thought not.

The smoking ban, war on smokers is a smoke screen. (pun intended)

You bang on about your rights not to smell of nasty cigarette smoke but of cancer inducing aftershave (probably- and whilst I am it hey people soap and water is enough! get me?) which catches the back of my throat well yes you do have that right. But if the tables were turned and all non-smokers were banned from public buildings, I think you would be rightly annoyed. Enough people DO smoke for there to be freedom of choice. For smoking pubs, for smoke rooms etc., to be staffed by smokers for smokers.

This is imposed restriction on the liberties of a section of society. By cow-towing to the establishment and agreeing with them not only are you proving my earlier point that the only real side effect of passive smoking is gross intolerance towards smokers but also you are assisting in the erosion of liberty.

Maybe a big part of the smoking problem is not that everyone is scared by the health risks (i couldn't give a shit about your health or anyone else's in the grand scheme of things) I dont expect you to give a flying one about my health. But as a member of society I do expect you to do your duty in ensuring our freedoms are not eroded as I have already mentioned that smokers can work in smoking pubs/cafes etc then there is room for this.

but the fact that smokers account for less than 35% of the population and a large part of the rest of that population just find it very uncomfortable and not a nice thing to have constantly around in public? see above.

I don't see how implementing a smoking ban affects the problem of poverty. Are you saying then that if we tackled poverty with the same vigour and finance that we would have solved it in the same amount of time it took to implement a smoking ban?:D Don't be so ridiculous. the governments have brought this ban in on the grounds of protecting passive smokers (see my above link of a 40 years study which proves this to be little mor ethan moral panic). If the governments really cared about health of the citizens then they would tackle poverty.


I bet you've spent far more energy whining about a public smoking ban than anything you've done to help solve poverty. My father always says dont assume anything because it only makes an ASS out of U and ME. In this case he is very right. Most of the time when I am not in paid employment I am working in my local community trying to alleviate poverty. I have done so as a welfare rights worker (voluntary) and currently am doing something about poverty in my local community.

[reptilianshapeshifter]

lol, i didn't assume anything other than the fact you've probably spent more time whining. When did I say you didn't do any charity work :D

[notaslave]

lol, i didn't assume anything other than the fact you've probably spent more time whining. When did I say you didn't do any charity work :D

I didnt mention the word charity but you mentioned that I probably spent more time whining than doing anything about poverty.

It appears to me that I have nothing further to say to you Sir as you are arguing over piffle and it will take this thread to the rant room, which may mean people may not see the link to the study on passive smoking.

[reptilianshapeshifter]

Have you heard of a teenager dying from taking their first "E" (mbassy regal)? I thought not.



Yes, his name was Donald Everard and it was a tragic waste of live :(



But if the tables were turned and all non-smokers were banned from public buildings, I think you would be rightly annoyed.



The tables won't be turned because non-smokers don't provide the same kind of irritation by NOT smoking.


This is imposed restriction on the liberties of a section of society. By cow-towing to the establishment and agreeing with them not only are you proving my earlier point that the only real side effect of passive smoking is gross intolerance towards smokers but also you are assisting in the erosion of liberty.


yes i agree and have alraedy stated that i would ahve been for smoke rooms as we have in Sweden. I don't live in the UK. didn't cause so much anger from you peeps until it kicked in in England did it? What was that poem about "they came for me...."

[shodan]

The Government's top smoking adviser is calling for a new government tobacco task force that can identify anyone who still dares to puff away in apparent privacy and persuade, cajole or bully them into quitting.

This is fucking disgusting, how dare anyone behave like that with fellow human beings. This IS a civil liberties issue.

[notaslave]

In 1974 when I was 16 I remember watching a Panaroma or World in Action documentary about life (at that time) in Russia. It was shocking, in their lack of freedoms, they appeared to have no right of association etc.,

Imagine my horror to watch successive governments here first pass a law where you could be "lifted" too many people gather in one place. Then you needed permission to protest and now you cant even protest outside Downing Street. Now the lack of freedom to associate is accepted, as a recent bike ride through London by an informal group was stopped, but it is the drip, drip way they do it, so that the majority dont even notice.

Kids used to play on the streets unfettered, it is now going down the road where children can only play in designated areas (probably eventually at a fee). Fun is effectively taxed. There was a case recently where kids were playing chalk games on the pavement and the police warned the mother.

They have won the smoking argument too as the non-smokers on the main don't see the tactics. So I will go on to say what is to happen next - which you should be able to see already, they will hound overweight people, they have already started. It will soon be a crime to be a few pounds overweight.

They have us snitching on each other, its encouraged. Well the school I went to you dont snitch, it was seen as wrong (not by the teachers) but by the kids. Many is a day we were kept behind cos the whole class kept quiet on who was behind a particular misbehaviour. I guess these days, they would grass up without so much as a second thought. Wusses.

Society is fucked. Because people dont see the benefit of sticking together, selfish lots of cunts on the main, would sell their granny if the price was right. Your comunities are fucked for the same reason. You dont know how to stcik together for the common good. And if people were a damn sight more forward thinking they would see its all divide and rule and gettign you to snitch on your neighbours. You get the society you deserve.

[harbingers_kiss]

This is just swell. I am allergic to every pain killer they've ever tried me on. I'm in pain 24/7 and other than a nerve suppressant, I get some relief from smoking clove cigarattes. Clove is a natural anesthetic. Because of the ludicrous ban I can no longer go to restaurants..unless I want to keep ducking outside and now many places have banned smoking outside their establishment. Because of my unusual circumstances, I'm an outcast. Not that I really much care anymore. I'm used to being a recluse at this point. have developed sociaphobia big time now largely due to people's judgmental attitudes when they don't consider all the possible circumstances and I'm tired of explaining myself. They always think I'm lying or something. Actually I know another woman who has MS and is also allergic to the meds normally used. She smokes clove too. Her daughter manages a mall in Michigan and that is the only public place she and I can smoke our cloves and only because her daughter is the manager and knows what her mother has been through. Does'nt do me any good now, I live in North dakota.

[sidewinder]

Because of the ludicrous ban I can no longer go to restaurants..unless I want to keep ducking outside and now many places have banned smoking outside their establishment.
So, even if you go to the restaurant, you are in constant pain? By this I mean that when you smoke a cigarette, the pain disappears or lowers at least, but you need a constant fix, is that it? How much time between each cigarette? Is it really that impossible to leave the 'fix' for just an hour?

[notaslave]

So, even if you go to the restaurant, you are in constant pain? By this I mean that when you smoke a cigarette, the pain disappears or lowers at least, but you need a constant fix, is that it? How much time between each cigarette? Is it really that impossible to leave the 'fix' for just an hour?

And what business is it of yours? How would you like a team of folk coming round to investigate your lifestyle to see whether we approved?

[sidewinder]

And what business is it of yours? How would you like a team of folk coming round to investigate your lifestyle to see whether we approved?
I like to eat my meal without the awful smell of cigarettes, thank you. But, you're right, it's none of my business. But then again, you invade my personal space, and if I don't want smokers surronding me, then you just have to deal with it and go somewhere else. Nobody cares about your health really if other folks in the restaurant want to have their meals without the cloud of smoke.

I just have the feeling that you're using your 'handicap' to manipulate other peoples thoughts by having them say "Oh look at that poor guy, he can't live without his cigarette... let 'm have it shall we?". Even though you're using it from a medical standpoint, I for one don't give a damn about someones point of view when there's an awful smoke involved. Use it at your home, go to the restaurant and have your dinner without the 'fix', that can't be too hard, can it? If I were to say to you that I needed to fart once in a while at the dinnertable in the restaurant next to other people, and say "Well, I'm doing it from a medical approved standpoint, it releaves me for a while..." How would other people react? Sure, it's not as 'worldwide' and on-the-front as compared to smoking, but really it's the same type of analogy.

The fact that you're creating sociaphobia is totally up to you, life doesn't end by not smoking at the dinnertable, you won't die, I'm sure. And you have to respect the fact that the majority of the people in some restaurants don't want a smoker next to them. I don't care if the're restaurants where you can smoke, I just won't go there then. But for public places where 99% op the population meets, then I guess you're just gonna have to accept it. Go smoke some other things that don't smell that bad.

[notaslave]

I like to eat my meal without the awful smell of cigarettes, thank you. But, you're right, it's none of my business. But then again, you invade my personal space, and if I don't want smokers surronding me, then you just have to deal with it and go somewhere else. Nobody cares about your health really if other folks in the restaurant want to have their meals without the cloud of smoke.

I just have the feeling that you're using your 'handicap' to manipulate other peoples thoughts by having them say "Oh look at that poor guy, he can't live without his cigarette... let 'm have it shall we?". Even though you're using it from a medical standpoint, I for one don't give a damn if there's an awful smoke involved. Use it at your home, go to the restaurant and have your dinner without the 'fix', that can't be too hard, can it?

There is room for smoking and room for non-smoking establishments. There is less room for government ninnies who fail to see that.

I use it at my home and I use outside and we have had the ban here since last March - I may have infringed it once or twice (then again I may be talking bollocks) but we what dont need is a society who shouts "how high" when the government says "jump". We need people to break rules. Thats a whole different subject but society would stagnate without them.

We need a society who stick together because next they come for the fatties - and I aint in the category but believe me I will shout about that too.

[sidewinder]

Sure, it's not my call whether or not someone smokes or eats fastfood like hell, but if it comes to public spaces, if a person is adding/taking something to/from my atmosphere, it's not up to anyone to decide to continue but me. Off course, I'm not that heroic in real life, this is just my attitude on a forum. I don't argue with people that much irl, because all they do is saying their arguments are true and that's the way it is. I can't even decide whether or not they can do something in my personal space. Then again, cigarette smoke can be smelt from dozens of meters away from you, so there's no real point in talking about 'personal space'. It just annoying no to be able to breath fresh air, and in this case I'm also bashing on traffic, chemtrails, etc.

[truthsayer]

In 1974 when I was 16 I remember watching a Panaroma or World in Action documentary about life (at that time) in Russia. It was shocking, in their lack of freedoms, they appeared to have no right of association etc.,

Imagine my horror to watch successive governments here first pass a law where you could be "lifted" too many people gather in one place. Then you needed permission to protest and now you cant even protest outside Downing Street. Now the lack of freedom to associate is accepted, as a recent bike ride through London by an informal group was stopped, but it is the drip, drip way they do it, so that the majority dont even notice.

Kids used to play on the streets unfettered, it is now going down the road where children can only play in designated areas (probably eventually at a fee). Fun is effectively taxed. There was a case recently where kids were playing chalk games on the pavement and the police warned the mother.

They have won the smoking argument too as the non-smokers on the main don't see the tactics. So I will go on to say what is to happen next - which you should be able to see already, they will hound overweight people, they have already started. It will soon be a crime to be a few pounds overweight.

They have us snitching on each other, its encouraged. Well the school I went to you dont snitch, it was seen as wrong (not by the teachers) but by the kids. Many is a day we were kept behind cos the whole class kept quiet on who was behind a particular misbehaviour. I guess these days, they would grass up without so much as a second thought. Wusses.

Society is fucked. Because people dont see the benefit of sticking together, selfish lots of cunts on the main, would sell their granny if the price was right. Your comunities are fucked for the same reason. You dont know how to stcik together for the common good. And if people were a damn sight more forward thinking they would see its all divide and rule and gettign you to snitch on your neighbours. You get the society you deserve.

Yep, I see all that too and it sickens me so few others do, because they are too busy being part of and creating the nanny state they claim to hate.

They will reap what they sow.

[harbingers_kiss]

Of course you think that. I'm used to it. I can sit here and tell you everything that is flawed about your assumptions, but you will justify it with things you have read and not experienced because you don't want to be wrong. Being wrong would force you to access yourself and would psychologically register with you as an embarrassment although that would not be the truth, the truth would be simply that you have learned something. But in short answer to your question, what I meant by my pain being 24/7 was that it can occur in any part of my body at any time without warning. Clove is the quickest way to take the edge off of it which would either allow me to continue my dinner (depending on the severity) or allow me the time neccesary for whomever I am with to drive me home so I can roll around in pain peacefully.
Oh but I am lying surely right ? I am simply a chain smoker trying to use my illness to vindicate my habit. Hell, I'm probably in no pain at all..not even sick for that matter..it's simply nicotine withdrawl huh ? (slaps forehead)

Regardles of the fact the old smoking sections of restaurants were by law supremely ventilated and sometimes the entire section would be outside...they said "it looked bad and they did not want their children learning it"..but how often have I seen people do everything from drink their coffee (caffeine), to drink their alcohol (IMO the most dangerous drug on the planet and no I do not drink alcohol), to popping their oxycontin at the table ? I don't think I want my kids learning those behaviours either so why don't we just BAN PUBLIC CONSUMPTION OF ANYTHING ?

My god, life is far too precious and short to be wasting our time on every little detail of what our neighbors do. If I ever get so old and bored that I have nothing better to do than dictate my neighbors life based on my own ASSUMPTIONS, I hope somebody shoots me.