Freedom of information request

[comma berenices]

I have sent a freedom of information request to the ministery of defence

today.

I asked who is funding the chemtrails and for what purpose are they spraying us.

I also pointed out that in 2002 the MOD adtmitted to spraying the population of britain but would not confirm what the chemical content was.

If i get a reply i will post it here,they have untill the 6th of april to reply.

Iv'e had enough of watching them blantently spraying our skies and falling ill.:mad:

[echoes_of_a_dream]

Good Job cb,

I recently wrote to my local council and MP. The response I got from the council said that the issue was outside thier remit and they suggested I contact the Civil Aviation Authority "if the aircraft is flying in a dangerous
manner", or the Health and Safety Executive regarding chemical safety. My local councillor did admit herself to noticing a strange film appear in her buckets and grass on occasions.

The reply from my MP basically dismissed what I had presented on the grounds of a lack of "scientific" evidence. I think your mode of action is a better approach, I can see any further enquiry of mine being passed around between various government bodies all touting the same thing, but regardless I am going to contact the Civil Aviation Authority.

[comma berenices]

Hi Echo,
I expect more of the same from the mod.

My mp did'nt reply,norman baker is my next contact he was the mp that
Challenged chemtrails in 2002.

I'm considering the aviation authority.someone has to have some answers
for us.

[echoes_of_a_dream]

Just came across the following advice (here (http://www.checktheevidence.co.uk/cms/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=99&Itemid=50)):

If you want to spend a few minutes advising the CAA and the DfT that you think "something is wrong", please consider using the information given below:

1) Get a digital camera.
2) Set the time and date correctly.
3) Wait for distinct chemtrail patterns (parallel lines, x's grids etc) to appear in a location near you.
4) Note the location of these "items"
5) Use the page below (which has a link to an online request form) to submit a Freedom of Information Request to the CAA like the one I've given below.

Alternatively, use the one I've given below. Forward this to anyone who may share your concern. I am going to do a 3rd press release to include this information. The idea here is to apply gentle and repeated pressure, rather than being done with the expectation of getting any useful answers to the important questions.... (and at least we can say we have been through the formal channels to anyone who asks).

Please be polite etc!!

Thanks

Andrew

CheckTheEvidence.com also has a Report on Illegal Aerosol Spraying Operations (http://www.checktheevidence.co.uk/cms/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=42&Itemid=50).

Also check out this article from AFP (http://209.85.229.132/search?q=cache:E8KAJmJHrpsJ:news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20090128/sc_afp/climatewarminggeo) (original article was deleted)

PARIS (AFP) – Massive, futuristic schemes to spur land and sea into sucking up greenhouse gases may help the fight against global warming but are no substitute for reducing the pollution itself, scientists said Wednesday.

Once dismissed as daft or dangerous, some of these "geo-engineering" projects can be of use in fending off the juggernaut of climate change, but only if they go hand-in-hand with cuts in carbon emissions, they warned.

"Geo-engineering" describes large-scale schemes such as erecting sunshades or mirrors in space, sowing the stratosphere with white particles or whitewashing building roofs to reflect sunlight, or scattering iron filings in the ocean to promote carbon-gobbling algae.

None of these projects has been launched on any significant scale.

Green groups are deeply suspicious of them, saying the most ambitious ventures could wreck ecosystems, carry an astronomical price and postpone tough decisions on reducing emissions of fossil-fuel gases that cause the problem.

But promoters of geo-engineering are now getting a closer hearing as political efforts to resolve climate change remain bogged down.

They argue that geo-engineering, by slightly cooling the planet, would buy time for humans to get their carbon pollution under control.

In a paper published on Wednesday in the journal Atmospheric Chemistry and Physics Discussions, researchers at Britain's University of East Anglia make the first attempt at calculating the effectiveness of these schemes.

They do not analyse environmental impact, nor do they estimate the cost.

"We found that some geo-engineering options could usefully complement mitigation [of emissions], and together they could cool the climate," said Tim Lenton, a professor of environmental sciences. "But geo-engineering alone cannot solve the problem."

The report said:

-- To gain a quick cool by 2050, building a deflector in orbit and sowing the stratosphere with fine sulphur particles are the best bet. But they also carry "a heavy burden of risk." The particles have to be replenished, and the sunshade would need maintenance. Any breakdown would cause temperatures to rise at a stroke.

-- "Fertilising" the ocean to boost plankton growth has chiefly long-term potential, as it would take centuries or millennia to really get up to speed.

-- Over the shorter term, it makes more sense to plant trees to soak up atmospheric carbon dioxide, and to use energy by burning biomass by pyrolysis so that its residues are returned to the soil as charcoal, a form of carbon that remains stable for centuries or millennia.

-- Painting roofs and roads white and other actions to help land surfaces reflect solar rays is of limited and local value. It could cool cities a little, but globally would be of little effect.

-- The benefits of some geo-engineering schemes have been in exaggerated in the past, and calculations about their effectiveness are fraught with errors.

The study comes amid an intensifying debate among climate experts about geo-engineering.

In its landmark report in 2007, the UN's Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) blasted geo-engineering options as "largely speculative and unproven, and with the risk of unknown side-effects."

In the most controversial experiment to date, scientists aboard a German research vessel, the Polarstern, are in the Southern Ocean where they plan to carry out what they describe as a small-scale test in iron fertilisation.

Germany's environment ministry has spoken out against the experiment, but the research ministry has stood by it.

[comma berenices]

Thanks for that echo:)

[comma berenices]

Two more FOI's going off in the morning,i took pictures and logged the the dates but not the time,i have a reasonable idea though.

Sprayed again today:mad:

I'm grateful for your help thank you :D

[echoes_of_a_dream]

Response from CPRE:

I was forwarded your emails regarding the planes on to me as the local CPRE voice in the area -- Fascinating stuff.

It has been suggested to me by another, rather clued up member, that what you have observed could be trials conducted by the Met Office or could be further trials conducted by the MoD.

Classified trials are carried out without public notificiation, and are usually carried out within easy reach of a research centre.

Perhaps you should invest in a good pair of binoculars capable of collecting details of the aircraft type(s) and its (their) registration details. Also monitor/identify the area sprayed so that there is an evidential base to take ground samples to check whether chemical sprays were used.

You could innocently ask the Met Office whether they are doing trials and if they admit to them then ask under which authority the trials are being conducted.

It is possible that the CAA may know what is going on..but it does not mean that they will admit it.

If the Met Office are in denial then you could ask who else might be doing trials etc. If you hit a brick wall try writing to your MP.

Get the dates, time, location and weather before and after spraying, also the temperature (this will affect the aerosol droplet formation characteristics and evaporation)

Hope this helps.

Some contacts:
http://www.weatheronline.co.uk/reports/wxfacts/Cloud-seeding.htm
http://en.wikpedia.org/wiki/Cloud_seeding

[comma berenices]

Wow echo,they know it's going on,it makes me feel better that were not being ignored.

Not heard back from the MOD as yet.

I took alook at defra's website yesterday they are doing nanotechnology trials,monitering the atmosphere.

They have a pdf leaflet on the site but it comes up error 404 when you try to open it.

I typed into my searchbar nanotechnology/chemtrails,everything that came up was linked to the chemtrails and morgellons disease.

I have a feeling defra know more than are letting on so i'm contacting them next.

[marpat]

I have sent a freedom of information request to the ministery of defence

today.

I asked who is funding the chemtrails and for what purpose are they spraying us.

I also pointed out that in 2002 the MOD adtmitted to spraying the population of britain but would not confirm what the chemical content was.

If i get a reply i will post it here,they have untill the 6th of april to reply.

Iv'e had enough of watching them blantently spraying our skies and falling ill.:mad:

Wear a respirator then. Why do me, my family and everybody I see in my area not fall ill? we breathe the same air as everybody else does.

When they sprayed the population are you referring to something that happened during the cold war, when strategies were being tried out to counter possible nuclear, biological and chemical attacks from the Warsaw Pact? If I am wrong then can you give me some information as to when this spraying took place.

[grachtengordel]

Wear a respirator then. Why do me, my family and everybody I see in my area not fall ill? we breathe the same air as everybody else does.

because you are not human?

[comma berenices]

Marpat,no i'm not refering to the cold war.
Iv'e been through this with you before.
I put up links for you to look at did you do any research.
Norman Baker MP for Lewes brought the spraying up in parliment,he got an admission from the MOD that we were being sprayed that was in 2002
The telegraph ran a story on it,so as much as you don't want to beleive were being sprayed,there are many that are aware of the chemtrails and are prepared to ask questions,were i live we are being sprayed on a daily basis now,perhaps were a town of useless eaters and therfore not fit to breathe clean air.
The only evidence i need is to watch the skie's and see many people around me fall ill.
I cannot offer an explaination as to why you and yours are not getting sick or others in your area,perhaps your not being sprayed heavily like we are.
Just think yourself lucky it's not happening to you,as i pointed out to you before a respirator mask will solve nothing,we are fighting nanotechnology here(small fibourous materials under the skin),barium amongst other chemicals,since the spraying got heavier in recent months people here have gotten sicker,were bombarded with this shit everyday.
Ah how sweet they have been spraying all day and now it's dusk we've got pretty pink clouds how bloody thoughtful of them:mad:

[marpat]

because you are not human?

Pathetic

[john connor]

Pathetic

Hi Marpat

Have you ever been on the EU Research Centre web site and looked at some of their projects under framework 6? I'm no chemist or scientist but I can understand enough BIG words to get the gist of what they are researching..

http://www.eurochamp.org/datapool/page/6/associates_list.pdf

http://www.gmes.info/157.0.html

http://www.teladnetgo.eu/index.php?option=com_frontpage&Itemid=1

[nightferry]

Marpat,no i'm not refering to the cold war.
Iv'e been through this with you before.
I put up links for you to look at did you do any research.
Norman Baker MP for Lewes brought the spraying up in parliment,he got an admission from the MOD that we were being sprayed that was in 2002
The telegraph ran a story on it,so as much as you don't want to beleive were being sprayed,there are many that are aware of the chemtrails and are prepared to ask questions,were i live we are being sprayed on a daily basis now,perhaps were a town of useless eaters and therfore not fit to breathe clean air.


Since 1997, I've been campaigning, with some success, for the declassfication (and release into the public domain) of all information relating to the MOD's past spraying activities over populated areas, and I think you'll find that Norman Baker's 2002 inquiries were actually focused purely on getting the MOD to place a copy of their Internal Historical Review of MOD BW public area experiments (Cold War era) in the Library of the House of Commons!

This particular MOD Internal Historical Review was produced as a direct result of campaigning by Dorset residents, who had been angered by the revalation (first published in the Sunday Telegraph by Andrew Gillagan and Rob Evans)that Dorset and the surrounding counties had been repeatedly used by military scientists from Porton Down as the UK's favourite Biological Warfare (BW) testing area.

Unfortunately, Norman Baker never asked the obvious question - will the MOD rule out conducting similar experiments, which expose the public to BW 'simulants (such as E.coli or Bacillus globigii), in the future!

In 1999, I made a few Code of Practice on Access to Government Information requests (a forerunner of the FOI Act) to the Defence Evaluation Research Agency (DERA) who were at the ime responsible for the MOD's Chemical and Biological Warfare research facility at Porton Down, Wiltshire. One of my requests concerned Government policy regarding future BW experiments conducted in populated areas.

DERA replied (see below):


http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n268/gravegigger/UKFieldTrialspolicy.jpg

In the event of a military question arising which could only be answered by conducting open air trials in areas which may involve the general public, Ministers have made it clear that they cannot rule out the need to conduct larger scale trials in the future to try to ensure the protection of the UK from attacks by people of states using biological or chemical weapons....

They added.

...Lord Gilbert, Minister for Defence Procurement, has, however, made it quite clear that should any large scale, open air trials be considered necessary in the future, permission to undertake them would not be given without appropriate consultation and an assessment by independent experts to ensure that public safety was not compromised in any way.

During 2006 I was informed by Dstl Porton Down that this remained official Government policy!

They added that, as they had not felt the need to conduct any BW experiment in public areas, they had not yet bothered to set up any procedure for consultation or assessment by independent experts!

For your information, the MOD have admitted spraying massive aerosols of the following chemical and biological substances over populated areas in the past.

Zinc Cadmium sulphide (ZnCds) - aka Fluorescent Particles (FP)

Phenol

E.coli MRE162 (EC)

Bacillus subtilis - aka Bacillus globigii (BG)

Inactivated Serratia marcescens (ISM)

Killed Klebsiella aerogenes (KA)


In 1998, the MOD commissioned Professor Brian Spratt FRS to conduct an Independent Review of some of their past public area BW experiments. He concluded that exposure to E.coli MRE162 might cause adverse health effects, such as pneumonias or sepsis, to susceptible individuals, e.g. those with an underlying disease. :eek:

In 2007, the National Academy of Sciences Institute of Medicine published a report, entitled: Long-Term Health Effects of Participation in Project
SHAD (Shipboard Hazard and Defense).

It contained the following remarkable statement (page 74):

"Bacillus globigii

Bacillus globigii (BG) has been called B. subtilis var niger, B. licheniformis and, most recently, B. atrophaeus.
It is a Gram-positive, spore-forming, facultative anaerobe commonly found in dust, soil, and water. It is widely used as a biological tracer and has been shown to produce substances that exhibit antimicrobial activity. In Project
SHAD, B.globigii was used to simulate biological warfare agents, because it was then considered a contaminant with little health consequence to humans.

BG is now considered a pathogen for humans. Most infections are associated with the experience of invasive trauma (e.g., catheters, surgery) and/or a debilitated health state; thus it is often encountered as a nosocomial pathogen.

BG is also a well-known cause of food poisoning, resulting in diarrhea and vomiting. Infections are rarely known to be fatal, although fatal food poisoning has been reported. Ocular infections, bacteremia, sepsis/septicemia,
ventriculitis, and peritonitis are the reported types of infection, and they are usually treated with antibiotics.
Cases of long-term persistence or recurrence, or of extended latency, have not been found."
So, contrary to the MOD's repeated assurances, exposure to BG can cause adverse health effects! :eek:

In 2006, Dstl Porton Down confirmed that both E.coli MRE162 and Bacillus subtilis remain on their very small list of 'operational' BW simulants!

Good luck with your FOIA request, berenices - I'd be very interested to see the results.



nightferry

[anthony65]

Wear a respirator then. Why do me, my family and everybody I see in my area not fall ill? we breathe the same air as everybody else does.

When they sprayed the population are you referring to something that happened during the cold war, when strategies were being tried out to counter possible nuclear, biological and chemical attacks from the Warsaw Pact? If I am wrong then can you give me some information as to when this spraying took place.

But Marpat... :eek:

You once wrote that you'd read the Guardian article so many times you didn't want to discuss it any more... :confused:

I know you're a busy man, but surely you remember?

You were rather rude at the time...

Well, you're always rude I suppose...

But you wrote with disgust that you just couldn't bear to read that Guardian article again....

:confused:

[anthony65]

Marpat,no i'm not refering to the cold war.
Iv'e been through this with you before.
I put up links for you to look at did you do any research.
Norman Baker MP for Lewes brought the spraying up in parliment,he got an admission from the MOD that we were being sprayed that was in 2002
The telegraph ran a story on it,so as much as you don't want to beleive were being sprayed,there are many that are aware of the chemtrails and are prepared to ask questions,were i live we are being sprayed on a daily basis now,perhaps were a town of useless eaters and therfore not fit to breathe clean air.
The only evidence i need is to watch the skie's and see many people around me fall ill.
I cannot offer an explaination as to why you and yours are not getting sick or others in your area,perhaps your not being sprayed heavily like we are.
Just think yourself lucky it's not happening to you,as i pointed out to you before a respirator mask will solve nothing,we are fighting nanotechnology here(small fibourous materials under the skin),barium amongst other chemicals,since the spraying got heavier in recent months people here have gotten sicker,were bombarded with this shit everyday.
Ah how sweet they have been spraying all day and now it's dusk we've got pretty pink clouds how bloody thoughtful of them:mad:


Marpat knows exactly what report you are referring to, or and he's already dismissed it several times... :rolleyes:

To quote him:

How many times has that guardian article been covered. I have commented on that before and just have no inclination to do it again.


http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showpost.php?p=677033&postcount=44

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=43430&highlight=guardian

[comma berenices]

Marpat knows exactly what report you are referring to, or and he's already dismissed it several times... :rolleyes:

To quote him:

How many times has that guardian article been covered. I have commented on that before and just have no inclination to do it again.


http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showpost.php?p=677033&postcount=44

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=43430&highlight=guardian

Thank you Anthony,i did'nt want to seem rude to marpet,but i get frustrated when he won't do his own research and see's fit to attack other members who have taken the time to look into this subject.I wonder if he will take the time to read nightferry's post.

[comma berenices]

Since 1997, I've been campaigning, with some success, for the declassfication (and release into the public domain) of all information relating to the MOD's past spraying activities over populated areas, and I think you'll find that Norman Baker's 2002 inquiries were actually focused purely on getting the MOD to place a copy of their Internal Historical Review of MOD BW public area experiments (Cold War era) in the Library of the House of Commons!

This particular MOD Internal Historical Review was produced as a direct result of campaigning by Dorset residents, who had been angered by the revalation (first published in the Sunday Telegraph by Andrew Gillagan and Rob Evans)that Dorset and the surrounding counties had been repeatedly used by military scientists from Porton Down as the UK's favourite Biological Warfare (BW) testing area.

Unfortunately, Norman Baker never asked the obvious question - will the MOD rule out conducting similar experiments, which expose the public to BW 'simulants (such as E.coli or Bacillus globigii), in the future!

In 1999, I made a few Code of Practice on Access to Government Information requests (a forerunner of the FOI Act) to the Defence Evaluation Research Agency (DERA) who were at the ime responsible for the MOD's Chemical and Biological Warfare research facility at Porton Down, Wiltshire. One of my requests concerned Government policy regarding future BW experiments conducted in populated areas.

DERA replied (see below):


http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n268/gravegigger/UKFieldTrialspolicy.jpg

In the event of a military question arising which could only be answered by conducting open air trials in areas which may involve the general public, Ministers have made it clear that they cannot rule out the need to conduct larger scale trials in the future to try to ensure the protection of the UK from attacks by people of states using biological or chemical weapons....

They added.

...Lord Gilbert, Minister for Defence Procurement, has, however, made it quite clear that should any large scale, open air trials be considered necessary in the future, permission to undertake them would not be given without appropriate consultation and an assessment by independent experts to ensure that public safety was not compromised in any way.

During 2006 I was informed by Dstl Porton Down that this remained official Government policy!

They added that, as they had not felt the need to conduct any BW experiment in public areas, they had not yet bothered to set up any procedure for consultation or assessment by independent experts!

For your information, the MOD have admitted spraying massive aerosols of the following chemical and biological substances over populated areas in the past.

Zinc Cadmium sulphide (ZnCds) - aka Fluorescent Particles (FP)

Phenol

E.coli MRE162 (EC)

Bacillus subtilis - aka Bacillus globigii (BG)

Inactivated Serratia marcescens (ISM)

Killed Klebsiella aerogenes (KA)


In 1998, the MOD commissioned Professor Brian Spratt FRS to conduct an Independent Review of some of their past public area BW experiments. He concluded that exposure to E.coli MRE162 might cause adverse health effects, such as pneumonias or sepsis, to susceptible individuals, e.g. those with an underlying disease. :eek:

In 2007, the National Academy of Sciences Institute of Medicine published a report, entitled: Long-Term Health Effects of Participation in Project
SHAD (Shipboard Hazard and Defense).

It contained the following remarkable statement (page 74):

"Bacillus globigii

Bacillus globigii (BG) has been called B. subtilis var niger, B. licheniformis and, most recently, B. atrophaeus.
It is a Gram-positive, spore-forming, facultative anaerobe commonly found in dust, soil, and water. It is widely used as a biological tracer and has been shown to produce substances that exhibit antimicrobial activity. In Project
SHAD, B.globigii was used to simulate biological warfare agents, because it was then considered a contaminant with little health consequence to humans.

BG is now considered a pathogen for humans. Most infections are associated with the experience of invasive trauma (e.g., catheters, surgery) and/or a debilitated health state; thus it is often encountered as a nosocomial pathogen.

BG is also a well-known cause of food poisoning, resulting in diarrhea and vomiting. Infections are rarely known to be fatal, although fatal food poisoning has been reported. Ocular infections, bacteremia, sepsis/septicemia,
ventriculitis, and peritonitis are the reported types of infection, and they are usually treated with antibiotics.
Cases of long-term persistence or recurrence, or of extended latency, have not been found."
So, contrary to the MOD's repeated assurances, exposure to BG can cause adverse health effects! :eek:

In 2006, Dstl Porton Down confirmed that both E.coli MRE162 and Bacillus subtilis remain on their very small list of 'operational' BW simulants!

Good luck with your FOIA request, berenices - I'd be very interested to see the results.



nightferry

I remember reading about Porton Down,we need more people to join your campaign,i would willingly help in any way i can,this has to be brought into the public domain and highlighted again,
now it's happening country wide.
I am still awaiting a response as soon as i hear i will post the reply.
Let me know if i can help in any way, pm me,we owe it to the people of porton down and the future of our children.
Thank you for your good luck wishes.

[anthony65]

Thank you Anthony,i did'nt want to seem rude to marpet,but i get frustrated when he won't do his own research and see's fit to attack other members who have taken the time to look into this subject.I wonder if he will take the time to read nightferry's post.

The marpat seal of disapproval is always a sign that you're on the right track! :D

Marpat is the Devil's advocate and he's very good at what he does.

When you can deal with marpat's nastiness and sarcasm then you've learned a good lesson.

And his ability to twist the truth is legendary.

He's also a living example of Cointelpro in action.

We should be paying him for his contribution here! :D

Look how disunited people usually are on the boards, yet marpat brings us together....

** New Conspiracy Theory **

Marpat is a double agent of the good guys sent here to challenge and educate us in the arts of Cointelpro... :rolleyes:

Three cheers for marpat! :D

[comma berenices]

the marpat seal of disapproval is always a sign that you're on the right track! :d

marpat is the devil's advocate and he's very good at what he does.

When you can deal with marpat's nastiness and sarcasm then you've learned a good lesson.

And his ability to twist the truth is legendary.

He's also a living example of cointelpro in action.

We should be paying him for his contribution here! :d

look how disunited people usually are on the boards, yet marpat brings us together....

** new conspiracy theory **

marpat is a double agent of the good guys sent here to challenge and educate us in the arts of cointelpro... :rolleyes:

Three cheers for marpat! :d

:d:d:d

[nightferry]

comma berenices, many thanks for the support. :D

You've probably already examined some the following links, but if you haven't they're well worth a read. ;)

For those who remain totally unaware of the full extent to which the UK Government permitted it's military scientists to use England and Wales as a giant outdoor Biological Warfare laboratory, click on the following links which each contain a brief description of the various elements of the UK Public Area BW spraying programme (taken from 11 years of exhaustive research) - they're a real eye opener. :eek:

UK Biological Warfare Experiments (http://www.nr23.net/govt/spray.htm)

UK Public Area Biological Warfare Experiments 1949-1975 (http://www.nr23.net/govt/uk_trials.htm)

The Dorset Biological Warfare Experiments 1963-75 (http://www.nr23.net/govt/spray_dorset.htm)


The current definitive list of all Porton Down Biological Warfare experiments, which were conducted in public areas, can be found at the following thread -Chemtrails-UK Public Area Biowarfare Tests 1949-76 (http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=42401&highlight=chemtrails+experiments)


nightferry:D

[comma berenices]

Nightferry,your welcome:D.

Thank you for the info,i have read one of those reports it's saved on my PC.

I'll save the others too,iv'e been looking for something more substancial regarding the 2002 MOD admittance to the spraying's.
I'll keep digging:D
I am trying to get more people to take notice,but when i showed the evidence
i had,they say well it doe'snt mean that were being sprayed now,because the date's are old:rolleyes:.

I have not had my request answered as yet,these people like to keep you waiting don't they:rolleyes:

Peace Comma

[marpat]

comma berenices, many thanks for the support. :D

You've probably already examined some the following links, but if you haven't they're well worth a read. ;)

For those who remain totally unaware of the full extent to which the UK Government permitted it's military scientists to use England and Wales as a giant outdoor Biological Warfare laboratory, click on the following links which each contain a brief description of the various elements of the UK Public Area BW spraying programme (taken from 11 years of exhaustive research) - they're a real eye opener. :eek:

UK Biological Warfare Experiments (http://www.nr23.net/govt/spray.htm)

UK Public Area Biological Warfare Experiments 1949-1975 (http://www.nr23.net/govt/uk_trials.htm)

The Dorset Biological Warfare Experiments 1963-75 (http://www.nr23.net/govt/spray_dorset.htm)


The current definitive list of all Porton Down Biological Warfare experiments, which were conducted in public areas, can be found at the following thread -Chemtrails-UK Public Area Biowarfare Tests 1949-76 (http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=42401&highlight=chemtrails+experiments)


nightferry:D


Come on, what does that prove?

That was the could war period when the risks from the soviets could be nuclear, chemical or biological. Spraying would be an ideal way to try and decontaminate a large area should it be hit. You may ask why the secrecy if it was for the public good but I feel that the answer would be to keep possible countermeasures secret from the enemy. If they found out what decontamination methods would be used then they could perhaps find a way around them. Pretty standard practice really, counter and counter-counter measure, etc.

Although that may be factual this does not mean or prove that there is any spraying going on at the moment does it? the only thing similar would be the method of delivery, if anything is being delivered now.

[nightferry]

Come on, what does that prove?

I would have thought that was self explanatory, marpat. :rolleyes:

It proves HMG will permit military scientists to repeatedly spray massive aerosols across populated areas; in the process, exposing UK residents to the possibility of suffering adverse health effects from the inhalation and digestion of hazardous particulates (both chemical and biological).

The 1999 DERA letter proves that it is current official Government policy to retain the right to repeat this type of experiment (the letter actually mention large scale trials) in the future. :eek:

That was the could war period when the risks from the soviets could be nuclear, chemical or biological. Spraying would be an ideal way to try and decontaminate a large area should it be hit. You may ask why the secrecy if it was for the public good but I feel that the answer would be to keep possible countermeasures secret from the enemy. If they found out what decontamination methods would be used then they could perhaps find a way around them. Pretty standard practice really, counter and counter-counter measure, etc.

marpat, have you even read the material contained in the links?

Let me make it quite clear...

...At no time were any of Porton's public area BW experiments designed for the purpose of large-scale aerial decontamination. To even suggest such an impractical scheme does give an indication of how little you understand these experiments.

Just so you know, the Zinc Cadmium sulphide (FP) large area experiments (1953-64) were conducted in order to investigate the long-distance travel of particulates - in particular BW agent particles. The Norwich Trials, which figure prominently on the NR23 site, were conducted in order to invesigate whether the heat generated by a city at night would enhance the effect of a BW attack.

The Lyme Bay Trials (aka the Dorset Defence Trials 1963-1975) were conducted in order to investigate: the feasibility of small-scale biological warfare (1,000 square mile coverage), and; the development of early-warning/detection equipment.

Decontamination played no part in these any of these public area experiments. ;)

In fact, as the following extract from a declassified Government document shows, defence wasn't always at the forefront of discussions related to Porton's newly discovered Large Area Coverage concept (the LAC was the reason for all of the above experiments being conducted)

"7. On the other hand, if the mechanism of long-distance travel in air of BW agents can be established as practical, it seems from preliminary consideration that the logistics for equal casualties would appoximate for both megaton weapons and BW. Furthermore, there is at least a chance that the attack may be undetected. Dispensing from aircraft, ship or submarine or ballistic missil may be practicable. It appears that against the USSR as a whole aircraft would have to be used. It has not been possible in the present state of knowledge to establish a typical pattern of an operation: Dispensing would probably have to take place below 30,000 feet but not necessarily below 2,000 feet. Present aircraft could therefore be used with a filght plan including some 20 minutes of such operation but to establish reasonably complete coverage of the inhabited areas of the USSR with such a flight plan may involve great risk of detection and thus forfeiture of surprise. A very low-flying aircraft of adequate range which might evade detection would carry us into a new aircraft and development project."

"11. ... we consider that biological warfare would clearly be a useful complement to megaton attack in war, or as a follow-up to increase the chaos and confusion."

Although that may be factual this does not mean or prove that there is any spraying going on at the moment does it? the only thing similar would be the method of delivery, if anything is being delivered now.

Well I would have thought that the fact that HMG refuse to rule out conducting similar experiments is a real cause for concern; especially when one examines the MOD's past record of outright lying to the public.

Given the UK Government's past record of clandestine spraying of hazardous material, how on earth can you so certain that similar spraying isn't currently being carried out over the UK?

marpat, I've produced proof regarding these experiments and their purpose; would you now be good enough to post some proof of your assertion that these experiments were conducted for decontamination research purposes?



nightferry :D

[comma berenices]

Got a reply from the FOI i sent to MOD today.

It's basis is plenty of talk of contrails,they have no info on chemtrails.

I expected something like this,i am going to reply.

Frustrating :mad: