Shares crash as savers raid £8bn from accounts

[killmicrosoft]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/shares-crash-as-savers-raid-1638bn-from-accounts-1635889.html

The pressure of an intensifying recession saw British companies and households launch an £8bn raid on their savings in January, according to the figures from the Bank of England.

As stock markets round the world slumped to record lows yesterday, with the Dow Jones at its lowest since 1997 and the FTSE 100 index touching a six-year nadir, the Bank also revealed that the UK's building societies granted just 2,000 new mortgages in January – a record low, and about one-tenth of their "normal" level. Given that giants such as Nationwide and Britannia are still writing much of the business, it implies that some of the smaller regional societies made few if any home loans in the first weeks of this year.

Altogether, mortgage approvals from banks, building societies and brokers ran to just 21,000 in the first four weeks of 2009. Even on a seasonally adjusted basis, mortgage approvals were still at an astonishingly low pitch – 31,000, against a normal 100,000. Net mortgage lending amounted to £690m in January, down from £1.8bn in December and the £6.9bn net mortgage lending seen in January 2008.

Simon Rubinsohn, chief economist at the Royal Institution of Chartered Surveyors said: "Ominously, this disconnect between buyer enquiries and actual mortgages approved highlights the inability of buyers to access the property market ... because of the substantial deposits being sought by lenders. It demonstrates the need for the Government to make speedy progress with the guarantee scheme for mortgage-backed securities."

However, it is the raid on savings that offers the strongest evidence of financial hardship. Companies and individuals withdrew £8.5bn from bank and building society savings accounts during the first few weeks of the year. To some degree this follows a normal pattern... but the extent of the withdrawals is unusually large: in January 2008 the equivalent figure was £1.3bn. On a seasonally adjusted basis, the flow of savings by households in January was £3.3bn down on the previous month.

Colin Ellis, economist at Daiwa Securities, commented: "Despite households' efforts to increase their savings, short-term factors seem to be hampering them. Some may be emptying savings accounts instead of borrowing from banks that are unwilling or unable to lend, and individuals may be lacking confidence to borrow large sums. Others may be using savings to maintain their standard of living and others may be drawing savings down as they are made redundant.... Many may simply feel that the measly interest rates on offer give them little financial incentive to save."

The Bank said yesterday that average rates of return on savings had collapsed to 1.14 per cent on instant access accounts. The latest figures are especially disturbing because they provide strong evidence that the various Government initiatives to boost credit are having little or no impact. The Department for Business's £10bn loan guarantee scheme, announced by Lord Mandelson in January, has been hit by delays, and the two recapitalisations of the banks by the Bank of England are yet to make their presence felt.

Government pleas for the banks to resume lending to 2007 levels seem to have fallen on deaf ears, as they continue to be consumed by bad loans and write-offs. Yesterday HSBC declared that it would seek a further £12bn from shareholders to cover bad debts.

Banks are concentrating on getting their own houses in order rather than helping business: the Bank of England data shows that the level of unused credit facilities granted by UK banks continues to fall, down 11.2 per cent in the year to January. The monthly drop in credit facilities in January – down £18.4bn, or 6.9 per cent on December – is the second-biggest monthly drop in 20 years. Michael Saunders, Head of European Economics, at Citigroup said: "This is a sign of the extent to which banks are cutting back on new credit supply, hence further pressuring companies to cut back on jobs, investment and inventories."

The Bank of England is expected to cut rates again on Thursday, from 1 to 0.5 per cent, and to announce a programme of "quantitative easing" – injecting cash directly into the economy to boost spending.

*Gordon Brown last night said lawyers were looking at "every possible avenue" to reduce the failed Royal Bank of Scotland boss Sir Fred Goodwin's £693,000-a-year pension. The move came as the City Minister Lord Myners said that he did not "endorse" the pension. He told the House of Lords he did not know the figures, although he was aware that it would be a "large sum".

[anthony65]

What stands out for me here is the following:

Banks are concentrating on getting their own houses in order rather than helping business: the Bank of England data shows that the level of unused credit facilities granted by UK banks continues to fall, down 11.2 per cent in the year to January. The monthly drop in credit facilities in January – down £18.4bn, or 6.9 per cent on December – is the second-biggest monthly drop in 20 years. Michael Saunders, Head of European Economics, at Citigroup said: "This is a sign of the extent to which banks are cutting back on new credit supply, hence further pressuring companies to cut back on jobs, investment and inventories."

This is not just happening in the UK.

Germany has a magnificent small and medium business sector that has contributed massively to the nation's economic strength.

But now they are being hit not only by the fall in exports (Germany's traditional strength), but also by the credit crunch mentioned here.

This crisis is clearly being engineered to destroy free enterprise throughout the western world.

The goal being a state run totalitarian Communist/Fascist global economy.

It's so clear that we're living through the biggest scam in history... :(

[fnulnu]

It's so clear that we're living through the biggest scam in history... :(

Yup,and in a perverse sort of way,I can't stop looking.It's a mesmeric time to be alive.Take notes,mate,like the Samuel Pepys of the future.

[fekdemasons]

Yup,and in a perverse sort of way,I can't stop looking.It's a mesmeric time to be alive.Take notes,mate,like the Samuel Pepys of the future.

Has anyone noticed that they are dangling the evidence in peoples faces.

[always_rebel]

In Poland, JP Morgan is stealing (via PUT i CALL options scam) billions of zlotys (exchanged to other currencies) more than 30 billion last year alone and the shit continues, and shipping it off to America or wherever.

They crashed the Polish currency and from a very stable one it lost about 70% of its worth within weeks last year.

[anthony65]

Another paragraph that stands out...

However, it is the raid on savings that offers the strongest evidence of financial hardship. Companies and individuals withdrew £8.5bn from bank and building society savings accounts during the first few weeks of the year. To some degree this follows a normal pattern... but the extent of the withdrawals is unusually large: in January 2008 the equivalent figure was £1.3bn. On a seasonally adjusted basis, the flow of savings by households in January was £3.3bn down on the previous month.

To some degree this follows the normal pattern they write, but then go on to say that last year the figure was 1.3 bn (this year's was 8.5 bn).

It sounds like a lot of people in the know are getting at least some of their money out in case one day they can't...

*** A personal story ***

About 18 months ago I attended a birthday party. The party was held at a masonic lodge here in Germany! :eek: I'd been there in the past, but had never thought twice about it. 18 months ago I was aware enough to note some of the weird "artwork" that had a very Luciferian flavour to it.

Anyway, I went to the toilet and happened to overhear a conversation from what sounded like 2 or 3 elderly blokes in another part of the building. Somehow the noise was filtered into the toilet!

They were very agitated. They were talking about billions of euros. This was 18 months ago and it sounded as if they were aware of the coming crash, but it was clear that they weren't happy bunnies.

The funny thing was that my brother-in-law happened to be in another cubicle and we saw each other when we can out, both of us open mouthed! These men had been talking about massive amounts of money.

The moral of the story...

1: Many people at higher levels knew what was coming a long time ago.

2 Most freemasons are going to be hit just as badly as everyone else.

[susano]

What stands out for me here is the following:

Banks are concentrating on getting their own houses in order rather than helping business: the Bank of England data shows that the level of unused credit facilities granted by UK banks continues to fall, down 11.2 per cent in the year to January. The monthly drop in credit facilities in January – down £18.4bn, or 6.9 per cent on December – is the second-biggest monthly drop in 20 years. Michael Saunders, Head of European Economics, at Citigroup said: "This is a sign of the extent to which banks are cutting back on new credit supply, hence further pressuring companies to cut back on jobs, investment and inventories."

This is not just happening in the UK.

Germany has a magnificent small and medium business sector that has contributed massively to the nation's economic strength.

But now they are being hit not only by the fall in exports (Germany's traditional strength), but also by the credit crunch mentioned here.

This crisis is clearly being engineered to destroy free enterprise throughout the western world.

The goal being a state run totalitarian Communist/Fascist global economy.

It's so clear that we're living through the biggest scam in history... :(


There is one way to solve this. BARTER. Say FUCK YOU! to the banks and reject their stranglehold.

[anthony65]

There is one way to solve this. BARTER. Say FUCK YOU! to the banks and reject their stranglehold.

Yep!

Something along these lines is the way forward.

Reduce dependency on the state wherever possible and start to work / cooperate at the local wherever possible!

Bartering is one option. Including, for example, bartering for services as they do in Argentina. Local currency initiatives are another possibility.

The only economic problem we have in the world right now is that the fake currency that they've been printing for decades is now being taken out of the hands of private individuals and companies with the goal of creating a globalist totalitarian state.

I read recently that 5 million people in the UK are heading for negative equity on their homes. In the US many millions of homeowners are facing difficulties.

If all these people refuse to leave the homes, then what will the governments do?

This year's big trend?

Digging over lawns for vegetable patches! :D

And my personal dream!

Ban golf courses and turn them into farmland or allotments! :D

How I hate golf!

[arten]

There is one way to solve this. BARTER. Say FUCK YOU! to the banks and reject their stranglehold.

Another way is to go bankrupt and there are record numbers doing that LOL
I am going to do so to fuck the banks I aint paying them back :D

[gilly]

NO matter what people on forum think about freemasons, there are some in my family, and whether you believe it or not, they are dithering old men, who don't know, & don't even want to know about any matters esoteric. They get together to socialise, and that's all. They raise and donate money to charities constantly. That is a FACT.

Once you get to about 30th degree, that's when you start to learn about the stuff we talk about, and that's a very tiny percentage of the men in freemasonary.

The rest are entirely ignorant & innocent of any sinister goings on.

[anthony65]

NO matter what people on forum think about freemasons, there are some in my family, and whether you believe it or not, they are dithering old men, who don't know, & don't even want to know about any matters esoteric. They get together to socialise, and that's all. They raise and donate money to charities constantly. That is a FACT.

Once you get to about 30th degree, that's when you start to learn about the stuff we talk about, and that's a very tiny percentage of the men in freemasonary.

The rest are entirely ignorant & innocent of any sinister goings on.

But even the ignorant contribute as footsoldiers for the evil doings at the top.

[gilly]

Do they though? How?

I think it's just a kind of recruitment thing, where certain individuals who can be useful to the elite are selected & groomed.

Each lodge controls its own finances entirely, and the money they raise is all used for their own social events & charities, so they're not contributing financially.

They don't communicate with the upper echelons in any way.

[anthony65]

Do they though? How?

I think it's just a kind of recruitment thing, where certain individuals who can be useful to the elite are selected & groomed.

Each lodge controls its own finances entirely, and the money they raise is all used for their own social events & charities, so they're not contributing financially.

They don't communicate with the upper echelons in any way.

How?

By being a freemason.

The bad guys at the top of the organization wouldn't be so effective if they didn't have the unwitting support of the ignorant masses at the bottom.

The same applies to many organizations, say Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, Catholics etc. etc. I'm not having a go at the individual masons. That was the point of my original comment. They are just as much victims of the machine as the rest of us.

I agree that certain individuals are probably selected and fast streamed.

Each lodge controls its own finances entirely, and the money they raise is all used for their own social events & charities, so they're not contributing financially.

They don't communicate with the upper echelons in any way.

Some quite bold statements there!

No communication in any way? How do you know?

The money is all used for social events and charities? Again, how do you know?

** I object to the principle of organizations that provide "jobs" and even worse "justice" for the boys or girls involved.

This thread just reminded me to check out Matthew Delooze again!

Energy / Symbols and how they work. Very relevant to the masons and the churches I mentioned above...

[gilly]

How?

By being a freemason.

The bad guys at the top of the organization wouldn't be so effective if they didn't have the unwitting support of the ignorant masses at the bottom.

The same applies to many organizations, say Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, Catholics etc. etc. I'm not having a go at the individual masons. That was the point of my original comment. They are just as much victims of the machine as the rest of us.

I agree that certain individuals are probably selected and fast streamed.

Each lodge controls its own finances entirely, and the money they raise is all used for their own social events & charities, so they're not contributing financially.

They don't communicate with the upper echelons in any way.

Some quite bold statements there!

No communication in any way? How do you know?

The money is all used for social events and charities? Again, how do you know?

** I object to the principle of organizations that provide "jobs" and even worse "justice" for the boys or girls involved.

This thread just reminded me to check out Matthew Delooze again!

Energy / Symbols and how they work. Very relevant to the masons and the churches I mentioned above...

I know because the elderly boys I'm related to got me to help with their book-keeping when in the role of secretary (i.e. I saw all the monies & where they came from & went to).

This assumption that they provide jobs & justice for the boys & girls a complete fallacy from what I've seen with my own eyes.

I don't dispute that other lodges may operate differently (though I doubt it), nor do I doubt for a minute that the higher echelons are exactly as wicked as portrayed in the many books I've read. But the lodge I've seen the workings of, consists of a bunch of peaceful, blissfully ignorant old duffers, and I'm frightened of the level of hostility alot of people (who are equally ignorant) harbour against them.

Because they have no knowledge or interest in the subjects we talk of (the Rosicurcial illuminati), they also have no idea of the hatred they are the subject of.

[fekdemasons]

I know because the elderly boys I'm related to got me to help with their book-keeping when in the role of secretary (i.e. I saw all the monies & where they came from & went to).

This assumption that they provide jobs & justice for the boys & girls a complete fallacy from what I've seen with my own eyes.

I don't dispute that other lodges may operate differently (though I doubt it), nor do I doubt for a minute that the higher echelons are exactly as wicked as portrayed in the many books I've read. But the lodge I've seen the workings of, consists of a bunch of peaceful, blissfully ignorant old duffers, and I'm frightened of the level of hostility alot of people (who are equally ignorant) harbour against them.

Because they have no knowledge or interest in the subjects we talk of (the Rosicurcial illuminati), they also have no idea of the hatred they are the subject of.
..
Get em all to sign up to this forum

[anthony65]

I know because the elderly boys I'm related to got me to help with their book-keeping when in the role of secretary (i.e. I saw all the monies & where they came from & went to).

This assumption that they provide jobs & justice for the boys & girls a complete fallacy from what I've seen with my own eyes.

I don't dispute that other lodges may operate differently (though I doubt it), nor do I doubt for a minute that the higher echelons are exactly as wicked as portrayed in the many books I've read. But the lodge I've seen the workings of, consists of a bunch of peaceful, blissfully ignorant old duffers, and I'm frightened of the level of hostility alot of people (who are equally ignorant) harbour against them.

Because they have no knowledge or interest in the subjects we talk of (the Rosicurcial illuminati), they also have no idea of the hatred they are the subject of.

The following statement raises my eyebrows:

I don't dispute that other lodges may operate differently (though I doubt it),

Aren't there many different lodges operating around the world? Without a lot of research / insider knowledge how could you have any idea how they operate?

I don't know much about the masons and their various lodges, but the following one springs to mind...

Propaganda Due - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

involving...

Roberto Calvi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

and

Licio Gelli - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Masons might argue that this was not an official masonic lodge, and apparently it wasn't, but when you read this story can you be sure that the other lodges around the world are not involved in unsavoury activities?

You wrote:

nor do I doubt for a minute that the higher echelons are exactly as wicked as portrayed in the many books I've read.

By your logic, there would appear to be a 180% turn from purely benevolent, charitable lodges under degree 30 to the wicked degrees above them.

I can't believe that it works like that...

And still, I do not doubt that your eldery gentleman were anything but good (misguided) men.

One of the saddest things is when good men and women are misled into working for evil: Whether military, politicians, police, church or whatever.

I don't hate any of these people. I pity them!

But I do hate what is done by their puppeteers... :(

[gilly]

..
Get em all to sign up to this forum

They're not interested in anything except snooker and beer. That's the extent of their relationships with each other & that's how they want it.

[gilly]

The following statement raises my eyebrows:

I don't dispute that other lodges may operate differently (though I doubt it),

Aren't there many different lodges operating around the world? Without a lot of research / insider knowledge how could you have any idea how they operate?

I don't know much about the masons and their various lodges, but the following one springs to mind...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda_Due

involving...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roberto_Calvi

and

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Licio_Gelli

Masons might argue that this was not an official masonic lodge, and apparently it wasn't, but when you read this story can you be sure that the other lodges around the world are not involved in unsavoury activities?

You wrote:

nor do I doubt for a minute that the higher echelons are exactly as wicked as portrayed in the many books I've read.

By your logic, there would appear to be a 180% turn from purely benevolent, charitable lodges under degree 30 to the wicked degrees above them.

I can't believe that it works like that...

And still, I do not doubt that your eldery gentleman were anything but good (misguided) men.

One of the saddest things is when good men and women are misled into working for evil: Whether military, politicians, police, church or whatever.

I don't hate any of these people. I pity them!

But I do hate what is done by their puppeteers... :(

Within the Masonic Lodge that my uncles are members of, there are about 28 other lodges who also use the premisis. They often interact socialise with each other, and all seem to be on a par.

It seems to me that people want to believe otherwise, but I've seen them. In what way do you think they are manipulated, or servants of the foot soldiers?

I expect that if someone is picked out to progress higher to within the Rosicrucian side, there would be some serious vetting procedure each step of the way, but it's a different world to the one these chaps inhabit, no matter what you think.

You may not hate them Anthony65, but many seem to, and it's seriously misplaced. If I try to talk to them about any of this stuff, you can see the complete incredulity in their eyes, and I know them well enough to know it's not fake. I've even suggested to them that it's their duty to read up, but they just want to go crown green bowling & play snooker over a pint - that's as complicated as they want things to get.

[arten]

But even the ignorant contribute as footsoldiers for the evil doings at the top.

In law ignorance is not an excuse those people are fucking Idiots they are pawns in the game and because of people like that we have this poxy system whereby we spend billions on weaponry and let the poor starve in Africa.:mad:

[anthony65]

Within the Masonic Lodge that my uncles are members of, there are about 28 other lodges who also use the premisis. They often interact socialise with each other, and all seem to be on a par.

It seems to me that people want to believe otherwise, but I've seen them. In what way do you think they are manipulated, or servants of the foot soldiers?

I expect that if someone is picked out to progress higher to within the Rosicrucian side, there would be some serious vetting procedure each step of the way, but it's a different world to the one these chaps inhabit, no matter what you think.

You may not hate them Anthony65, but many seem to, and it's seriously misplaced. If I try to talk to them about any of this stuff, you can see the complete incredulity in their eyes, and I know them well enough to know it's not fake. I've even suggested to them that it's their duty to read up, but they just want to go crown green bowling & play snooker over a pint - that's as complicated as they want things to get.

In what way do you think they are manipulated, or servants of the foot soldiers?

As I wrote earlier, simply by being masons they add to the strength of the organization.

The "good guys" at the bottom and their charitable deeds serve to provide cover for the unsavoury actions at the top of the pyramid.

I'd have to read up more about the masons to make more specific comments, but from what I've read so far, the masons are one component in what I would describe as "The Satanic Agenda" / "NWO Agenda". And by Satanic, I don't merely mean the entity / demon that is "Satan", but the whole "demonic" worship that is apparently at the root of all the main branches of the conspiracy, whether masonic, catholic, zionist, etc.

Traitors to humanity and traitors to themselves... :(

[gilly]

In what way do you think they are manipulated, or servants of the foot soldiers?

As I wrote earlier, simply by being masons they add to the strength of the organization.

The "good guys" at the bottom and their charitable deeds serve to provide cover for the unsavoury actions at the top of the pyramid.I'd have to read up more about the masons to make more specific comments, but from what I've read so far, the masons are one component in what I would describe as "The Satanic Agenda" / "NWO Agenda". And by Satanic, I don't merely mean the entity / demon that is "Satan", but the whole "demonic" worship that is apparently at the root of all the main branches of the conspiracy, whether masonic, catholic, zionist, etc.

Traitors to humanity and traitors to themselves... :(

Well that can't be right, because it isn't only conspiracy theorists who have an irrational distrust and dislike of them.