When a Government is not a Government

[baron von lotsov]

I stuck this on the NO2ID forum. I guess it will be gone by tomorrow so I'll leave it on here.

OK- a problem, and a very big one indeed, that I think the vast majority on here are underestimating.

We live in a political/media-based environment that says that once the government changes, then the country changes. Of particular interest to us is the issue of the database state. It is an apparatus of political control and it is vast. Quangos alone clock up a yearly bill of £167 billion, and it is part of a huge nanny state, of which we complain that the database control system is wrong and should be axed. But will it?

This man predicts that no such thing will happen, and his argument is very convincing. Take a deep breath and have a read, then try and construct an argument that says he is wrong. I think you are going to have a problem doing so.

http://www.seangabb.co.uk/flcomm/flc181.htm

In Nazi Germany, do you think it would have been possible to still have kept the SS while removing their guns? The truth is rather unpalatable because the database state and the nanny state are inseparable. Either they both remain or they both go. To get rid of both is like a declaration of war. (Political reality-not political fiction!)

http://forum.no2id.net/viewtopic.php?t=26636

[baron von lotsov]

?

[baron von lotsov]

You will notice my prediction was correct. The NO2ID group could not answer this question and so they deleted it. This is what a liberal mind is all about, it can't face hard truths. It pretends that the system is only there to do you the best of favours. This is why often you get rank hypocrisy and why you get nothing actually changing. They can't face up to the concept of power and what it actually is. This is about the death of democracy.

[dondaz]

The NO2ID group could not answer this question and so they deleted it.

And them being your mates and all, for years no doubt. You seem to have an unfortunate penchant for learning the hard way!

Keep it up, baron:D

[dreamweaver]

You will notice my prediction was correct. The NO2ID group could not answer this question and so they deleted it. This is what a liberal mind is all about, it can't face hard truths. It pretends that the system is only there to do you the best of favours. This is why often you get rank hypocrisy and why you get nothing actually changing. They can't face up to the concept of power and what it actually is. This is about the death of democracy.

I've tried to discuss the wider issues on the NO2ID board before and they just don't want to know. People I've spoken to at activist level are quite receptive to talking about the bigger picture but the leadership are determined to keep it a narrow single-issue campaign.

I sort of see why they feel the need to do that, but I do think they're wrong. I think it would be a bit harsh to call them "controlled opposition", as many members are sincere and do at least organise demos and hold street stalls etc, which is more than can be said for Shami etc.

[baron von lotsov]

I've tried to discuss the wider issues on the NO2ID board before and they just don't want to know. People I've spoken to at activist level are quite receptive to talking about the bigger picture but the leadership are determined to keep it a narrow single-issue campaign.

I sort of see why they feel the need to do that, but I do think they're wrong. I think it would be a bit harsh to call them "controlled opposition", as many members are sincere and do at least organise demos and hold street stalls etc, which is more than can be said for Shami etc.

Guy Herbert is the one to watch out for. The others are OK but he calls the shots and he is a weird man. A lot of NO2ID members have got a really bad feeling from some of the things he has done and said. If there were such a thing as controlled opposition he'd be your main suspect. Phil though is a really top chap, I have always had a really friendly and positive encounters with him. The others are far more like Phil than Herbert.

[numbersix]

The whole machine of the state in this country has become so large it is unlikely to ever change.
The NHS is the largest employer in Europe... If the freeman threads on here are correct then it is a private corporation and functions for profit which I presume it obtains partly from taxes ,partly from money from drugs companies in promoting new drugs and also from selling our freely donated blood abroad which it apparently does do...
Then you have the police, the government quangos, councils, and a whole list of other so called service sector jobs...
These now account for some 45% of UK jobs.

This whole situation of large corporations monopolising the UK has evolved over time and has gradually destroyed enterprise, and small independant businesses. In addition to the state monopolies you also have food supplier monopolies such as Tesco, petrol monopolies like BP and Shell and a very few companies supplying our utilities

The future isnt bright and the future is certainly not Orange!!!!

[fnulnu]

This is a great thread.Baron.My eyes are really open now.There is nothing true anymore.No establishment "group" with our interests at heart.This is down to us to fix somehow.

Did you catch this new controlled opposition group talking shop at the Modern Liberty Convention?

http://ms.groovygecko.net/groovyg/clients/dowie/modern_liberty_plenary1_700k.wmv

[baron von lotsov]

This is a great thread.Baron.My eyes are really open now.There is nothing true anymore.No establishment "group" with our interests at heart.This is down to us to fix somehow.

Did you catch this new controlled opposition group talking shop at the Modern Liberty Convention?

http://ms.groovygecko.net/groovyg/clients/dowie/modern_liberty_plenary1_700k.wmv


Well you see NO2ID hangs somewhere in the middle of the two; it is neither one nor the other. Naturally I have been there to correct many mistakes that were being made, but I also benefited in learning something myself.

Guy Herbert has never agreed with me, and the only replies he has ever made to any of my points have been to attack them and then be seen in public to loose nearly every argument he has picked with me, until he gives up and deletes the thread. A few months ago he banned me as well! That really got on my nerves, considering the amount of help I had given to the organisation, right from the early days when it was very small indeed.

I still support it though, because it is far more than one person, and I'm committed to winning the battle it fights. Only yesterday I passed on a very useful contact that has been taken up by one of the other people who run it. Mind you, I have to stay anonymous now, no more Baron von Lotsov posts because my user account is inoperable. It makes me laugh though, because I'm really and truly NO2ID now, not even my user name is revealed. Herbert just sees a load of people posting as guests. He has to work out whether a particular post is I or someone else. I think a lot of other people have a bit of a laugh about that, since they know the score.

[mightiswrong]

No2id is controlled opposition in the sense that they are dealing with the symptoms of the disease rather than the cause and are thus not part of the solution. Deleting your thread is a clear indication that all is not what it seems and I have had many threads deleted. The thing is we can fix all of these problems ourselves by starting a new culture and civilization (http://books.google.com/books?id=PEtff6LNp1kC&pg=PA20&lpg=PA20&dq=%22the+first+shoots+of+a+new+and+splendid+futur e+are+to+be+found+in+the+russian+dachniks!%22&source=bl&ots=V0vK4jL4nD&sig=aoBdic43v0uGS7VKDBsnFZ9Chsk&hl=en&ei=Zr2tSc-nIOCGjAfTrJygBg&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=2&ct=result).

[baron von lotsov]

Well they try and be non-party political, which is good to a point, but unfortunately the thing they are fighting over is an invention of the far left, and is entirely socialist. They may well cite the right have also used ID cards but this is usually a reference to the Nazi party who you will notice are socialist as well, I mean their full name in German includes the word 'socialist'.

When they talk about the database state they are, in an oblique way, referring to the nanny state, or at least the control component to it. This is why I think they couldn't cope. I think Herbert is more associated with Libdems from what he has told us and the Libdems are a walking contradiction. They want an EU based socialist state but not the computers that are used to control it. Like I said above, it's like a paramilitary group without guns-entirely useless in fact. It does not add up.

[mightiswrong]

I agree with you Baron Von Lotsov and you know that Guy Herbert uses your IP address to work out who you are.... Why don't you campaign on land reform and the creation of kin's domain? We can completely bypass the technocratic system and guarantee no Id cards, microchips or database state. Worth your consideration?

[baron von lotsov]

I agree with you Baron Von Lotsov and you know that Guy Herbert uses your IP address to work out who you are.... Why don't you campaign on land reform and the creation of kin's domain? We can completely bypass the technocratic system and guarantee no Id cards, microchips or database state. Worth your consideration?



I'm aware he can check the IP address but it appears that is only the case when they think they have a real problem. They don't check all the IP addresses of all the posts, since I have been posting anonymously for sometime. They do tend to filter it out on other criteria and often use the excuse that it is an illegal post if it contains comment from a politician of the wrong party. It's OK to post a Libdem's view on ID cards though. Bending rules the game that is played. Since I have been anonymous I have had equal treatment and so I'm happy about that. Understanding what is going on is a good cure for getting angry and pissed off. I'd rather put my energies into destroying the ID card scheme.

[dreamweaver]

IP addresses are a pretty useless tool of surveillance for such people in this age of 3g mobile connections, free wi-fi in pubs etc.

The police and spooks have access to better tools, of course, but Guy Herbert is unlikely to be high up enough the chain for any of that.

[baron von lotsov]

Yes, you might like to read some of the stuff he writes. He has a really odd way of communicating something. He seems to like to make a simple point sound complex by use of words and his odd phraseology. I suppose a bit like an academic that is trying to impress someone with jargon. It often ends up as very nit-picky rather than something that is more profound. The Guardian seems his natural home and a lot of Guardian stuff is that sort of style. It sounds great but means little. I'm the opposite, I try and simplify something so the reader to gain the most insight with least effort.

[baron von lotsov]

Oh, by the way. One positive thing I did manage at NO2ID was to introduce the word 'Stasi'. I said to Dave Gould that the government were acting like a bunch of Stasi and explained exactly why. Instead of the usual thread deletion I had expected he tried it out on a few press and found that they liked the idea. Now if you read the Daily Mail that concept has been firmly established in the minds of the public. We have all sorts of Stasi now, even the bin Stasi. It's a break from the more usual Nazi description and fits the regime much better.

[young_geecee]

why the hell dont we bombard them as a unit? would do this place wonders for everyone to unite now and then

[mightiswrong]

bombard them with what?

you can keep a message at the top of that forum. you just click the back button after you post and then post again and again. gets borring after a while but people get to read it.

[baron von lotsov]

The thing is that it is not most people at NO2ID. Most people there do a Stirling job. It's just one man and maybe a few people on the periphery that don't show their faces much. So vandalism would result in exactly what they want. The elite want nothing more than for all of our regiments to fight each other rather than to fight them. It's far more productive to let the worms carry on with everyone knowing who they are and so they can watch them very carefully and hopefully pick up a few of their tactics along the way.

Eventually they will find the infiltration counter productive, indeed a classic example was when the BNP had a mole distribute their membership list. It was a complete backfire job. So when you spot someone like that just keep silently watching until you have built up a case without them knowing that you know. Then pass on the information to others. I'm not letting this put me off fighting ID cards in the least; I just work around the man. I think quite a lot of other people do as well.

[baron von lotsov]

No sooner than having said that and a regular NO2IDer remarks:

I'm just wondering why a Mod can lock a topic whilst appearing as a 'guest'...?

Hopefully there will be a reasonable reply!

http://forum.no2id.net/viewtopic.php?t=26692

You see, without even mentioning it on the forum we have many eyes looking out for the probity of NO2ID.