Christ in Egypt: The Horus-Jesus Connection

[vinnyharris]

For those who may be interested in learning more about verifying the Egyptian claims found in the Zeitgeist Movie part 1 - the book, Christ in Egypt: The Horus-Jesus Connection is now available to be studied.
http://www.stellarhousepublishing.com/christinegypt.html

It's around 600 pages, and nearly 2,400 footnote/citations to primary sources and expert commentary on them with over 900 bibliographical references to scholarly journals, books, articles etc and 60+ illustrations.

Christ in Egypt: The Horus-Jesus Connection (http://www.stellarhousepublishing.com/christinegypt.html)

If you checkout the link above it looks like it's going to be fantastic. I trust it will be ... mine is on its way - I had to have it!

[1977]

This does look exhaustively researched. Please post anything interesting that you read in it. :)

[vinnyharris]

This does look exhaustively researched. Please post anything interesting that you read in it. :)

Will do, 1977. I must confess that I am really excited about this book the more I check into it. If you scroll down throughout the page you will see a few links in the table of contents.

Preface
http://stellarhousepublishing.com/ciepreface.html

Luxor Nativity
http://stellarhousepublishing.com/luxor.html

Well Known in Egypt?
http://www.stellarhousepublishing.com/wellknowninegypt.html

Along with some bullet points of what to expect from the book like:

* "Uses thousands of primary source texts such as the Egyptian Book of the Dead, the Pyramid Texts, the Coffin Texts, the Hebrew and Greek Old Testaments, the Greek New Testament, Coptic texts and the writings of the early Church fathers"

* "Includes research in the original languages, such as Egyptian, Greek, Latin and Hebrew"

* "Incorporates modern research in German and French--everything conveniently translated as well for your ease of reference"

and more ... http://www.stellarhousepublishing.com/christinegypt.html

D.M. Murdock aka Acharya S has really worked hard on this book for all of us!

[vinnyharris]

Here's the latest news ... I thought many here would be interested to be made aware of ...

"In this week’s eSkeptic magazine, Tim Callahan wrote a critique of Zeitgeist part 1 —

The Greatest Story Ever Garbled (the link is in the article below)
by Tim Callahan

Acharya has already responded to Callahan's article -

Skeptic Mangles ZEITGEIST
(and Religious History)
http://stellarhousepublishing.com/skeptic-zeitgeist.html

She mops the floor with him demonstrating that when it comes to the facts surrounding Zeitgeist part 1 he doesn't know what he's talking about after all."

[1977]

Here's the latest news ... I thought many here would be interested to be made aware of ...
Good article. I have done a lot of my own research, so when I read the Christ Conspiracy I found a lot of things that seemed like they needed to be better referenced or were only superficially dealt with. It looks like she is really getting her hands dirty with the hardcore scholarship at this point, and I couldn't be happier.

[hirschfelder]

Acharya has already responded to Callahan's article -

Skeptic Mangles ZEITGEIST
(and Religious History)
http://stellarhousepublishing.com/sk...zeitgeist.html

She mops the floor with him demonstrating that when it comes to the facts surrounding Zeitgeist part 1 he doesn't know what he's talking about after all."

Good stuff

So many of these pseudo-skeptics, either on their own websites or on forums like this, simply offer nothing more than shallow, vague objections. This Callahan seems to be cut from the same cloth

It's one thing to get an idea, or be of the opinion, that some theory is wrong; it's another to be able to present a legitimate and coherent critique of that theory

It must be frustrating for the likes of Acharya S to have to go over the same ground to refute fucknuts like this Callahan fella

I can't be bothered with forums anymore because of the sheer number of people devoting huge amounts of time and space to criticising theories and ideas they haven't even bothered to read up on

Time and time again I see threads full of idiots criticising what they think might be written in books they haven't read. I'd have stopped looking on this forum long ago if it wasn't for getting links to thought-provoking stuff such as this

I don't know if Christ existed. I'm not an expert. What's wrong with someone like Callahan admitting that too?

[vinnyharris]

Hey, this just in -

Easter: The Resurrection of Spring
http://www.stellarhousepublishing.com/easter-resurrection.html

;)

[1977]

I don't know if Christ existed. I'm not an expert. What's wrong with someone like Callahan admitting that too?
Actually, I've been reading through Tim Callahan's Secret Origins of the Bible (http://www.amazon.com/Secret-Origins-Bible-Tim-Callahan/dp/0965504786) book and, amazingly, much of it is the same sort of thing that Jordan Maxwell et. al. have been saying for years. He's quite open about the Old Testament being a collection of solar and lunar myths purloined from Babylon--as well as how the New Testament borrowed from the Pagan Mysteries:
This book demonstrates that the stories and themes of the Bible were part of the great mythic systems of the ancient world by using comparative mythology, tell tale verses in the Bible and archaeology. The abstract God of modern monotheistic Judaism, Christianity and Islam is a comparatively recent creation. In later times the myth of a messianic deliverer was combined with that of the pagan god-man who suffered a horrible, excruciating death but was physically resurrected to produce the Christ myth.

So Callahan's own book actually agrees with her about the "Christ Myth," even if he doesn't agree that it means that a historical Jesus did not exist.

[synergy777]

although i don't like to admit it, objective research shows that the bible is a manufactured document.

most of the bible stories are in fact egyptain stories rewritten by the jewish priesthood in capitivity. thus why egypt is so important to the elite/esoetric societies.

the fact is the lack of evidence for many of the great kings of the bible, eg if these kings were so powerful, where are the records, the huge palaces etc in israel/judah. as moses grew up as an egyptain and led the israelites into exodus, thus to me, egypt is the foundation for the biblical history/story we see today.

add esoteric knowledge/symbolism, fertility cults and egyptain/vedic/babylonian wisdom, all this fused together becomes the bible.

[synergy777]

authors like gerald massey, godfrey higgins, piers compton, alexander hislop, clive prince, ralph ellis, lawrence gardiner etc, are spot on.

if you add in blavatsky, bailey, crowley, you begin realise the huge scope of deception involved in organised religion. most organised religion is a dumbed down version of events, fused with esoteric symbolism/metaphor and political/imperial history.

this is why the only doctrines that help any individual to develop himself are in my view the buddhist/esoteric doctrines, they encourage introspection, evaluation, meditation and ultimately compassion to all (people and nature). they also highlight samsara and moksha. etc.

don't get me wrong i believe jesus existed (i hope he existed), i believe that krishna existed also. the fact is alot of the real data we need to get even close to the truth is not in the elite controlled texts.

religous/esoteric texts are the highest form of elite propaganda, thus ultimately mind control/misinformation. to keep us continously searching, going around in circles.

[vinnyharris]

Actually, I've been reading through Tim Callahan's Secret Origins of the Bible book and, amazingly, much of it is the same sort of thing that Jordan Maxwell et. al. have been saying for years. He's quite open about the Old Testament being a collection of solar and lunar myths purloined from Babylon--as well as how the New Testament borrowed from the Pagan Mysteries:

Yep, authors/scholars get ticked-off and write a critique on other scholars works for a variety of reasons. Maybe Callahan was jealous that he didn't get mentioned in Zeitgeist and his "garbled" review was his way of getting some recognition - they do this type of thing often. It is a tactic. It is petty that his own books agree with many of the conclusions that he attacks. There's a more professional way to deal with it - he could've checked some of the sources to see where the info came from first before Callahan launched an attack - it has clearly backfired on him.

[thirdwave]

Most religious people start to feel alone and lost when there religion starts to look less genuine than they had thought...

these people need to learn that the energy they got from that religion is still very much here... this is the issue they don't seem to get past...

if they want to use a being as a focus point of their will and there love, then great, nothing wrong with that's what's so ever...

but it does not mean it has to be held within the boundaries of this universal book we must all see as the words of our god...

you only need to see that new film called "religious" by Bill Maher.... He is a total media puppet IMO (although he did make me laugh in this), and you can see the money put into exposing these religions and in allot of cases really trying to highlight the hassle they are...

Yes the elite are attacking religion, but only because it is simply not as powerful as it used to be, and it is about creating something that towers over us all... not just a certain amount... I believe the key is to understand that religion is not all there is regarding love or god... and most people are good and understand ethics purely from the roots of human nature.

[coco]

Most religious people start to feel alone and lost when there religion starts to look less genuine than they had thought...

these people need to learn that the energy they got from that religion is still very much here... this is the issue they don't seem to get past...

if they want to use a being as a focus point of their will and there love, then great, nothing wrong with that's what's so ever...

but it does not mean it has to be held within the boundaries of this universal book we must all see as the words of our god...

I agree with that. I think God is bigger and broader and deeper than taught in Christian schools and churches. I find churches miss the mark for me leaving me to feel empty. And the shallowness of most parishioners is both sad, because they may not realize it themselves, and frustrating when I see them out on the street behaving just like any other person.

This may be the case for others who do not feel they are getting what they feel they need from the church - any Christian denomination.

[rr_x]

I always found it interesting that the Greeks called Horus 'Harsiesis' (Har son of Isis) and later Jesus 'Iesus'.

[amethyst]

Jesus is not Horus and Jesus never went to Egypt. Sorry to burst your bubble.

[thirdwave]

Jesus is not Horus and Jesus never went to Egypt. Sorry to burst your bubble.

lol

come on now, despite your faith surely you can see you are totally overlooking the point being put forward.

it is not being implied that Jesus went to Egypt.... it is being implied that the story of Jesus never happened as the bible depicted it, and that it was a re creation of a story that was previously told in Ancient Egypt....

another example is the story of Satan/ Lucifer.

Which is a cut out from the Greek story of promethius, Who used to work with God and helped him create Humanity ... But God chose to oppress Man and keep knowledge from them... promethius went against his will and bright man fire (which was the symbol of knowledge) .. for this Zeus punished promethius buy tying him in chains and having a Vulture come every morning and eat his liver and bring him back to life...

Zeus eventually set him free killing the Vulture with an arrow...

Only the bible was very brief with it and left out the part where promethius warns the powerful Zeus that one day Man will stand up to him and become Gods them self and over come him.

the bible leaves that part out.

also the bible makes out that the snake tricked Eve.... which is not really noted.... the snake passes on knowledge... and the snake is also a symbol for the kundalini..

think about it.

It also strikes up on some of Tsarions research where beings with enlightenment came and paid there brothers a visit and inform them that they too can be like the "gods" ... which enraged the "nephilim" "Annunaki" .. "fallen Angels"

[amethyst]

lol

come on now, despite your faith surely you can see you are totally overlooking the point being put forward.

it is not being implied that Jesus went to Egypt.... it is being implied that the story of Jesus never happened as the bible depicted it, and that it was a re creation of a story that was previously told in Ancient Egypt....

another example is the story of Satan/ Lucifer.

Which is a cut out from the Greek story of promethius, Who used to work with God and helped him create Humanity ... But God chose to oppress Man and keep knowledge from them... promethius went against his will and bright man fire (which was the symbol of knowledge) .. for this Zeus punished promethius buy tying him in chains and having a Vulture come every morning and eat his liver and bring him back to life...

Zeus eventually set him free killing the Vulture with an arrow...

Only the bible was very brief with it and left out the part where promethius warns the powerful Zeus that one day Man will stand up to him and become Gods them self and over come him.

the bible leaves that part out.

also the bible makes out that the snake tricked Eve.... which is not really noted.... the snake passes on knowledge... and the snake is also a symbol for the kundalini..

think about it.

It also strikes up on some of Tsarions research where beings with enlightenment came and paid there brothers a visit and inform them that they too can be like the "gods" ... which enraged the "nephilim" "Annunaki" .. "fallen Angels"

That's what you think.

Because you never experienced the power of God, so you wouldn't know.

Yeah, the snake Satan, gave Eve knowledge....but with strings attached. God gives pure knowledge and you don't have to sell your soul to have it either.

[1977]

Jesus is not Horus and Jesus never went to Egypt. Sorry to burst your bubble.
"Out of Egypt have I called my son." :confused:
I always found it interesting that the Greeks called Horus 'Harsiesis' (Har son of Isis) and later Jesus 'Iesus'.
Additionally, Celsus lumps in the Harpocratians (followers of Horus) with the Christians, and says they traced their origins to the disciple Salome (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salome_(disciple)): http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/04165.htm
Celsus knows, moreover, certain Marcellians, so called from Marcellina, and Harpocratians from Salome, and others who derive their name from Mariamme, and others again from Martha.
You think that's weird? http://www.bartleby.com/81/1178.html
The Etruscan Bacchus was called Esar or Nesar; the Umbrian Desar; the Assyrian Issus; the Greek Dion-ysus; the Galatian Nyssus; the Hebrew Nizziz; a Greek form was Iacchus (from Iach, a shout); the Latin Bacchus; other forms of the word are the Norse Eis; the Indian Ies; the Persian Yez; the Gaulish Hes; the German Hist; and the Chinese Jos.
The earliest Christian writings (the Oxyrhynchus papyri) have Jesus' name written as "IES" (ιης).

[amethyst]

"Out of Egypt have I called my son."

That is from the scripture in Matthew 2:14-15:


"When he arose, he took the young child and his mother by night, and departed into Egypt:

"And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son"

It was refering to when Joseph and Mary had to go down into Egypt to escape King Herod and his death squads. King Herod was killing all the first born males in Judea, so Joseph was warned by God in a dream, to hightail it to Egypt along with Mary.

But then, Joseph was told again to go back to Israel because Herod died.

Matthew 2:20-12 "Saying, Arise, and take the young child and his mother, and go into the land of Israel: for they are dead which sought the young child's life.

And he arose, and took the young child and his mother, and came into the land of Israel."

These scriptures have nothing to do with Jesus being Horus.

[1977]

That is from the scripture in Matthew 2:14-15:

"When he arose, he took the young child and his mother by night, and departed into Egypt:

"And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son"

It was refering to when Joseph and Mary had to go down into Egypt to escape King Herod and his death squads. King Herod was killing all the first born males in Judea, so Joseph was warned by God in a dream, to hightail it to Egypt along with Mary who was pregnant.

But then, Joseph was told again to go back to Israel because Herod died.

Matthew 2:20-12 "Saying, Arise, and take the young child and his mother, and go into the land of Israel: for they are dead which sought the young child's life.

And he arose, and took the young child and his mother, and came into the land of Israel."
It clearly says that Jesus was already born. What are you trying to show? :confused:

[marpat]

Jesus is not Horus and Jesus never went to Egypt. Sorry to burst your bubble.


How would you know where he went? there are massive gaps of many years in his story yet you seem certain he never went there?

Many believe he achieved his final initiation in the great pyramid.

Have you ever compared the Mary and infant Jesus statues to those of Isis with Horus. Guess which one came first?

[amethyst]

It clearly says that Jesus was already born. What are you trying to show? :confused:

No. Jeus was born in Bethlehem. That's in Israel.

THEN He went down to Egypt to escape from King Herod. I should have corrected myself because scripture states that Jesus was already born when he went to Egypt with His earthly parents.

Read the scripture that I am refering to and you will see.

* I'm going to correct my previous post.

[marpat]

That's what you think.

Because you never experienced the power of God, so you wouldn't know.

Yeah, the snake Satan, gave Eve knowledge....but with strings attached. God gives pure knowledge and you don't have to sell your soul to have it either.

Did god not attach strings to what Adam and Eve could eat? remember the trees in the garden where trees of knowledge.

That is why the snake is associated with knowledge in some cases as he caused Adam and Eve to become away of good and evil, making them like god!! the bible has a number of references where people are referred to as gods.

[element]

Have you ever compared the Mary and infant Jesus statues to those of Isis with Horus. Guess which one came first?
This is common with many things, simply because people were inspired by antiquity and mixed that with the biblical stories.
For example, if Obama will be worshipped and they make a statue of him (identical like a pharao for example) and people in the year 3000 might think Obama was a pharao...

That said, the 28(?) years of no mention in the bible are very suspicious...must be something the romans didn't really like...

[marpat]

This is common with many things, simply because people were inspired by antiquity and mixed that with the biblical stories.
For example, if Obama will be worshipped and they make a statue of him (identical like a pharao for example) and people in the year 3000 might think Obama was a pharao...

That said, the 28(?) years of no mention in the bible are very suspicious...must be something the romans didn't really like...

Definitely. If the story of his initiation at the great pyramid are true then it could well have occured during this period. Maybe there was a lot of other stuff that the public are not allowed to know. Would be interesting if the vatican had some material in their secret archives for this period.

[amethyst]

Did god not attach strings to what Adam and Eve could eat? remember the trees in the garden where trees of knowledge.

That is why the snake is associated with knowledge in some cases as he caused Adam and Eve to become away of good and evil, making them like god!! the bible has a number of references where people are referred to as gods.

There were lots of trees.

Genesis 2:9: "The tree of life was also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil".

God said don't "eat"(a euphemism to have sexual relations with) from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. You will see that if you do a word study on the orignal meaning.



In other words, don't have sex with that "tree" (Satan), because you will become tainted with his poison.

Yeah, that serpent, which is Satan's correct name according to scripture, was smart. And had a lot of knowledge. Because before he fell, he had a very high position in heaven.

[marpat]

There were lots of trees.

Genesis 2:9: "The tree of life was also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil".

God said don't "eat"(a euphemism to have sexual relations with) from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. You will see that if you do a word study on the orignal meaning.



In other words, don't have sex with that "tree" (Satan), because you will become tainted with his poison.

Yeah, that serpent, which is Satan's correct name according to scripture, was smart. And had a lot of knowledge. Because before he fell, he had a very high position in heaven.

It does not say that the tree will poison you. It was said that it will give you knowledge of good and evil.

The biblical term 'to know' is used in the sexual sense. I have never heard anything about 'to eat' being used in a sexual way.

I thought satan was an angel. If the serpent was satan then why dont they just use that name?

[coco]

"How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the
morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst
weaken the nations!"
Isaiah 14:12, KJV

"And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall
from heaven."
Luke 10:18, KJV

"And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent,
called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole
world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were
cast out with him."
Revelation 12:9, KJV

[amethyst]

Definitely. If the story of his initiation at the great pyramid are true then it could well have occured during this period. Maybe there was a lot of other stuff that the public are not allowed to know. Would be interesting if the vatican had some material in their secret archives for this period.

Nah. He never had an initiation at the great pyramid. Maybe you want him too but it never happened.

He was a little kid at the time staying there till he could return to Israel. He left and went back to his birthplace in Israel, since King Herod was dead, and no one had to worry about their first born son being killed then.

Scripture doesn't say specifically how old Jesus was when He left Egypt, but he was a child because, when He was back in Israel, scripture says he went into the temple at age 12, to discuss scripture with the learned scribes.

Luke 2:42: 'And when he was twelve years old, they went up to Jerusalem after the custom of the feast."

[marpat]

Nah. He never had an initiation at the great pyramid. Maybe you want him too but it never happened.

He was a little kid at the time staying there till he could return to Israel. He left and went back to his birthplace in Israel, since King Herod was dead, and no one had to worry about their first born son being killed then.

Scripture doesn't say specifically how old Jesus was when He left Egypt, but he was a child because, when He was back in Israel, scripture says he went into the temple at age 12, to discuss scripture with the learned scribes.

Luke 2:42: 'And when he was twelve years old, they went up to Jerusalem after the custom of the feast."

How would you know? you have a really closed mind. How do you know what went on in his adult life? you just dont. He could have been initiated as a child in there if that was his role. How would you know for certain that this didnt happen?

The bible has been changed over 40 times in history so how can you possibly know what elements are true?

[amethyst]

It does not say that the tree will poison you. It was said that it will give you knowledge of good and evil.

The biblical term 'to know' is used in the sexual sense. I have never heard anything about 'to eat' being used in a sexual way.

I thought satan was an angel. If the serpent was satan then why dont they just use that name?

If you really want to know, do a study of the orignal hebrew meanings of the words. Then you will see it.

"to know" and "eat" in the context of these scriptures both alude to sexual intercourse with the serpent.

I thought satan was an angel.

He was. The highest ranking angel who fell.

Edit: refer to Coco's post. About Lucifer/satan's fall.

[amethyst]

How would you know? you have a really closed mind. How do you know what went on in his adult life? you just dont. He could have been initiated as a child in there if that was his role. How would you know for certain that this didnt happen?

The bible has been changed over 40 times in history so how can you possibly know what elements are true?

According to scripture dude. That's what is written. If you want to change what it says, that's your perrogitive, but it says what it says...

.....in multiple versions even say the same thing- though many of those versions have been added to and messed with a bit-but that's a whole other topic)

They basically stick to the same points.

[1977]

It does not say that the tree will poison you. It was said that it will give you knowledge of good and evil.

The biblical term 'to know' is used in the sexual sense. I have never heard anything about 'to eat' being used in a sexual way.

I thought satan was an angel. If the serpent was satan then why dont they just use that name?
She is right about the sexual subtext in this case, though. It's what the Neoplatonists would call the fall into "the sphere of generation"; i.e., sexual polarization. The fruit of the Tree of Knowledge is traditionally a fig, symbolic of the Matrix.

[marpat]

She is right about the sexual subtext in this case, though. It's what the Neoplatonists would call the fall into "the sphere of generation"; i.e., sexual polarization. The fruit of the Tree of Knowledge is traditionally a fig, symbolic of the Matrix.

I am aware of what you are saying I have just never heard the term 'to eat' being used in sexual connotations. I know that 'to know' is used in this context though.

[amethyst]

She is right about the sexual subtext in this case, though. It's what the Neoplatonists would call the fall into "the sphere of generation"; i.e., the division of the sexes out of the original unity.

You could sort of say Eve had two lovers....but the Serpent seduced Eve. In other words, he poured on the charm, and made himself very appetizing to look at. Remember, Satan knows how to shape-shift, so is it really that difficult to make yourself look appealing?

That's how those other fallen angels/nephilim probably seduced human women into having sex with them too. They were probably very lizard looking, but shape-shifted into nice looking men.

They got the idea probably from Satan.It worked for him.

[amethyst]

I am aware of what you are saying I have just never heard the term 'to eat' being used in sexual connotations. I know that 'to know' is used in this context though.

Do an original hebrew word study.

Here's a link:

http://menastreesministry.org/studies/ForbiddenFruit.htm

[marpat]

Will have to look another time. Got to travel now!!

[eternal_spirit]

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showpost.php?p=866072&postcount=356

[themime]

The following is the article on The Pagan Christ.

http://hnn.us/articles/6641.html

I can't be sure of the sources impartiality but it includes a more in depth section about the survey of "twenty leading Egyptologists" by Dr. W. Ward Gasque.

[thirdwave]

That's what you think.

Because you never experienced the power of God, so you wouldn't know.

I have experienced the power of god.


Yeah, the snake Satan, gave Eve knowledge....but with strings attached.

Strings attached? .. where did you read that from?

here is the story from Genesis.


3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

3:2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:

3:3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

There was no temptation involved... and there was not conditions involved. it was simply informing them what would happen if they eat the fruit.... and that it was a lie that they would die should they eat or touch it as God had told them.

then we see God question them where Eve says she was beguiled by the serpent...

and god then tells the serpent


3:14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:

You can see here how very week minded and out of control Adam and Eve were.... almost like Gods pets.

the the Adam and Eve story is taken from the Greek Zeus story... but what this Adam and Eve version does not also express is the fact the snake actually had knowledge and was not the bringer of deception but was only pointing out the deception that was already there... I guess its was Lucifer (which means light bringer)

Prometheus when Cast down by God, did go on to say that Man would rise over come him and become Gods them selves...

there was no conditions at all... it was purely an attempt to enlighten them.


God gives pure knowledge and you don't have to sell your soul to have it either. God lied to Adam and Eve that they would die if they eat the fruit... hence god him self broke one of the 10 commandments..

[1977]

The following is the article on The Pagan Christ.

http://hnn.us/articles/6641.html

I can't be sure of the sources impartiality but it includes a more in depth section about the survey of "twenty leading Egyptologists" by Dr. W. Ward Gasque.
Yeah, Alvin Boyd Kuhn is a very interesting writer and I would invite people to read his works (available here: http://members.tripod.com/~pc93/kuhn.htm), but he was in no ways a real scholar; he held a PhD in Theosophy. I would put him more in the same category as Rudolf Steiner.

The real parallels with Osiris are hard to miss, though, and early Egyptologists like Budge were especially struck by them. Tom Hare came to the same conclusions in ReMembering Osiris: Number, Gender, and the Word in Ancient Egyptian Representational Systems (http://www.amazon.com/ReMembering-Osiris-Ancient-Egyptian-Representational/dp/0804731799/) (1999).

This brings us to some of the central issues at stake in a comparison of Osiris with Christ, such a comparison as I argue speaks for a far more important Egyptian legacy in Western thought, specifically in Christianity, than has ever been acknowledged.
So real, solid work on this subject has never really been done.

[themime]

Yeah, Alvin Boyd Kuhn is a very interesting writer and I would invite people to read his works (available here: http://members.tripod.com/~pc93/kuhn.htm ), but he was in no ways a real scholar; he held a PhD in Theosophy. I would put him more in the same category as Rudolf Steiner.


Quite, there's nothing wrong with questioning received wisdom (indeed it is a key component of Theology) as long as the research is sound.

[coco]

Thirdwave, do you think perhaps God was referring to the death of spiritual purity? The loss of constant joy and contentment? The easy life?

When you punish a child you don't throw him out on the streets, you give him a swat or take his favorite toy away or forbid his favorite dessert - for a while until he redeems himself in accordance with your criteria. The child is without that which gives him joy, he is uncontented.

I guess it could be said that Adam and Eve were 'thrown out on the street'. They had to work for everything thereafter but it was still there for them. It just wasn't handed to them on a silver platter anymore. They had to work physically and on their relationship with God.

Maybe that's not a good analogy but I'm interested in your thought.

[mariag]

An interesting video about this issue

http://www.evtv1.com/player.aspx?itemnum=1148

[element]

I think it's all about representing the polarities. Spiritual/material, all the other polarities, our third dimensional world can't exist without. Adam and Eve are one example of the story, also male/female. There is really no reason to think they were real beings, why would anyone care about it? I don't think we should take everything literal. Or we might go on to believe once all animals were herbivore and the earth is 6000 years old...

[1977]

I could also mention that the myth of Osiris is fundamentally the same as the fall of Adam. Set (the Adversary) constructs a form-fitting coffin and tricks Osiris into sitting in it, whereupon he seals it up with lead and throws it into the waters. What could the coffin represent but the human body itself, sealed with the "lead" of matter and thrown into the "waters" of generation?

This is the Cross of the Four Elements, "that is spiritually called Sodom and Egypt, where their Lord was crucified."

[marpat]

Do an original hebrew word study.

Here's a link:

http://menastreesministry.org/studies/ForbiddenFruit.htm

One question. When talking of 'to eat' meaning to have sex is that due to translation of that particular part of the old testament or is it used as a general statement? if it is general then it would be like Christ telling his disciples to have sex with his body, 'eat of my body, etc'

[marpat]

Thirdwave, do you think perhaps God was referring to the death of spiritual purity? The loss of constant joy and contentment? The easy life?

When you punish a child you don't throw him out on the streets, you give him a swat or take his favorite toy away or forbid his favorite dessert - for a while until he redeems himself in accordance with your criteria. The child is without that which gives him joy, he is uncontented.

I guess it could be said that Adam and Eve were 'thrown out on the street'. They had to work for everything thereafter but it was still there for them. It just wasn't handed to them on a silver platter anymore. They had to work physically and on their relationship with God.

Maybe that's not a good analogy but I'm interested in your thought.

In short, ignorance is bliss?!?

Their sin was to know good and evil, as god does and this is why they suffer.
Personally I think it is a story that relates to the development of the conscious mind and splitting of the soul into sexual groups, or something along that line.

[amethyst]

One question. When talking of 'to eat' meaning to have sex is that due to translation of that particular part of the old testament or is it used as a general statement? if it is general then it would be like Christ telling his disciples to have sex with his body, 'eat of my body, etc'

Context, my boy, always "context". It is refering to that bit of text, not the whole or all Bible scriptures. The hebrew word for "eat of it' is # 398 'akal (aw-kal'); meant in one use "to lay with a woman" as in a sexual act.

Another ex: "fruit of the tree" = Hebrew word # 6529 periy- fruit- means: offspring, children, progeny

[thirdwave]

Thirdwave, do you think perhaps God was referring to the death of spiritual purity? The loss of constant joy and contentment? The easy life?
Im sure from Gods perspective this is what he was referring to.. but how can you be pure if you are not concious of all there is?

more ignorant than pure....

if God knows what the other fruit was like then why cant anyone else?... God is pure right?

basically I believe the bibles concept is about worshipping one who did eat the fruit... and not having to eat it your self..

You see, Lucifer/Satan or what ever you want to call it, is not and never was evil... it was just relieving what's there... and removing the boundaries put their by "god"...

for me Christians and other groups need to understand the power they feel when "connecting with god" is power THEY create... and always can create with or without Jesus or the bible..

but for some reason when we learn that WE are in the driving seat all of a sudden its to much and we begin to doubt and not trust our selves... I think the key to our life is trying to over come that... and we are being attacked by people who do not want us to succeed.


When you punish a child you don't throw him out on the streets, you give him a swat or take his favorite toy away or forbid his favorite dessert - for a while until he redeems himself in accordance with your criteria. The child is without that which gives him joy, he is uncontented.
I guess it could be said that Adam and Eve were 'thrown out on the street'. They had to work for everything thereafter but it was still there for them. It just wasn't handed to them on a silver platter anymore. They had to work physically and on their relationship with God.

Maybe that's not a good analogy but I'm interested in your thought.

I see where you are coming from...

the thing is looking at how it panned out in Genesis, it looks like A&E had no option as eating the fruit took them to another place anyway... and although you cant find it in the bible, when looking at the story from other times you see that God was quite worried that his power would be lost over man... and "lucifer" said to him when taken away that Man would over come his oppression.. this worried Zeus ... I would recommend the story of Zeus and Promethius...

so for me Adam and Eve began to evolve to a point where God was no longer sportive of them.. because they where no longer his... they had started to become there own... maybe because of his oppression to start with A&E where not in the best state to go alone and did not become enlightened in best of ways...

like a son who is old enough to out smart his father... the father expects him to have his own place to live.....

[thirdwave]

http://www.authorama.com/old-greek-stories-5.html

“If they only had fire,” said Prometheus to himself, “they could at least warm themselves and cook their food; and after a while they could learn to make tools and build themselves houses. Without fire, they are worse off than the beasts.”

Then he went boldly to Jupiter and begged him to give fire to men, that so they might have a little comfort through the long, dreary months of winter.

“Not a spark will I give,” said Jupiter. “No, indeed! Why, if men had fire they might become strong and wise like ourselves, and after a while they would drive us out of our kingdom. Let them shiver with cold, and let them live like the beasts. It is best for them to be poor and ignorant, that so we Mighty Ones may thrive and be happy.”

[amethyst]

God lied to Adam and Eve that they would die if they eat the fruit... hence god him self broke one of the 10 commandments..

They died a "spiritual" death, not a "physical" death.

They became separated from the light of God. That's why the "all that is", infinite one" God, had to come back to earth again in the form of a man, so that we would be restored back into full relationship with the "all-that-is" infinite one more commonly known as God.

it was God's decision initiated on His own, because He was driven by love for His creation: "us". Love brought Him to earth to become just like us.

[amethyst]

the thing is looking at how it panned out in Genesis, it looks like A&E had no option as eating the fruit took them to another place anyway...

A & E had a choice. God didn't make Eve have sex with Satan the serpent. No one was twisting Eve's arm. She let herself be sweet talked by the reptilian serpent. It was free will all the way. She chose it.

[thirdwave]

They died a "spiritual" death, not a "physical" death.

I'm talking scripture not interpretation.

If it is down to interpretation then I am also right in how I have interpreted it... especially as the story is very much like the older Greek story I have talked about which gives more of an insight into the "serpent"

And how can you die a spiritual death? ... even if you are evil you can still be spiritual....


They became separated from the light of God. That's why the "all that is", infinite one" God, had to come back to earth again in the form of a man, so that we would be restored back into full relationship with the "all-that-is" infinite one more commonly known as God.

Yes of course they were separated from the "light of god".... because the fruit introduced them to their own light of which they were blown away with and could not deal with.... the light was too bright for them, because they had not expainced it before.... They were submissive to Gods lay out and where given barriers on where they could and could not go.

they should never have been forbidden the fruit to start with as it highlights how they were not free and the garden of Eden was not paradise... it was false.



it was God's decision initiated on His own, because He was driven by love for His creation: "us". Love brought Him to earth to become just like us.

He loved control over his creation... but if we were his creation then why did he create the forbidden fruit to start with? ... maybe he had no choice because it was a necessary cage.

he did not want us enlightening our kundalini and seeing more and becoming gods our self... and it seems he done everything he could to stop us from seeing it... that's if you want to believe it is him that is "God".

And if Love brought him down to earth to be like us, only for his example to be highlighted by pure torture and death then Again I would highlight a very irresponsible and deviously manipulating God.

I believe there are a good few wise words from this "jesus" character and there is knowledge rooted their from somewhere. But IMO the over all God the bible depicts is an oppressive dishonest bully...

and to be honest the whole concept of a God above us, is to me is false to start with..... no God wise and strong enough to be such would want to be such and want to be above everything else.... and any true creator would want what it has created to be just as he/she is.



The last link i sent is a link to the story of the old Greek myth Prometheus and Jupiter (Zeus).. if your interesting read it and let me know your thoughts..

[marpat]

Context, my boy, always "context". It is refering to that bit of text, not the whole or all Bible scriptures. The hebrew word for "eat of it' is # 398 'akal (aw-kal'); meant in one use "to lay with a woman" as in a sexual act.

Another ex: "fruit of the tree" = Hebrew word # 6529 periy- fruit- means: offspring, children, progeny

OK, well I can appreciate that but just wanted to clarify it. You do say it is one possible use though, that does not mean that this is the intended use does it.

Can I ask why you say it only applies to that part of the text? in the case of christ telling people to eat of his body, why should it not be applied there also?

[marpat]

A & E had a choice. God didn't make Eve have sex with Satan the serpent. No one was twisting Eve's arm. She let herself be sweet talked by the reptilian serpent. It was free will all the way. She chose it.

But have you even ascertained that satan and the serpent are the same?

Maybe this was actually all part of the plan. What would God prefer, souls that are kept as pets or ones who know good and evil and can make decisions?

Satan was said to be an angel but the serpent is said to be more subtle than all the beasts of the field. Not really compatible are they. One has spiritual origin the other a more animal origin.

[thirdwave]

A & E had a choice. God didn't make Eve have sex with Satan the serpent. No one was twisting Eve's arm. She let herself be sweet talked by the reptilian serpent. It was free will all the way. She chose it.

I mean after they had eaten the fruit they never had a choice of what There relationship with "God" would be..

What do you mean sweet talked?... are you assuming there was words said that Geniuses kept from us??

As you can clearly see this is what the snake says...

here

Ye shall not surely die:

3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

this is the only thing the snake says.... pointing out that she would not die (which was the truth) as Neither there soul of body died as if it did Man kind would not be here today.
now if that was all that needed to be said to sweet talk Eve into losing the light of God, then she was certainly in a fragile state to begin with.
And if you would like to learn more about the snake and its desire to make Eve like a god her self.... then dig back at older myths where you will see the whole story.

If you think that the story of Genesis is a littoral true story, then you are as gullible as Eve was.. and VERY much need to bite the fruit.

Ok, do this, wipe your mind clear and pretend you know nothing.....
If Adam and Eve were safe from evil in the garden of Eve then why did they become victims of a supposed evil? ... We can see that they were not safe.. as they ended up in danger and was meant to have (acourding to the bible) have suffered.

Now, You can see the serpent says that eating the apple would allow them to become god like them sevles and to SEE good AND evil.....
if you wipe your mind from what you have in bedded in it from the bible... what does that story feel like?
does it really feel like God was keeping them Free????

the snake is a symbol for the Kundalini.... which can be extremely enlightening but also dangerous of the person is not very well prepared for it.
I also find it odd how A&E were naked in Gods Garden of Eden (which means enclosed garden) But Christianity has not put much emphasises on this and the human body is very much feared and covered up very much like Adam and Eve had supposedly done when becoming detached from god...

I believe it was the other way around and when they eat the apple they threw their cloths off.

[element]

It is not love of creation that people are born without chances of getting a proper and healthy life etc.
We create our own reality, not a god figure. My take on it.
Taking the bible all literal creates a lot of error.

[amethyst]

[QUOTE=thirdwave;867151]

Yes of course they were separated from the "light of god".... because the fruit introduced them to their own light of which they were blown away with and could not deal with.... the light was too bright for them, because they had not expainced it before.... They were submissive to Gods lay out and where given barriers on where they could and could not go.

they should never have been forbidden the fruit to start with as it highlights how they were not free and the garden of Eden was not paradise... it was false.
He loved control over his creation... but if we were his creation then why did he create the forbidden fruit to start with? ... maybe he had no choice because it was a necessary cage.

Satan the serpent who is a liar, and the father of all lies as scripture states, was the "forbidden fruit". He got kicked out of the third heaven where God resides. He thought he could take God's place and tried to mutiny in heaven. But since he isnt God, he failed. He lost his high position that he had in heaven.

He "fell" to earth and was in the garden of Eden, as was Adam and Eve.

Prior to their "fall" and corruption with the serpent, Adam and Eve would have lived forever in their physical state. They were innocent. But Eve, by being seduced by Satan the serpent, introduced death into the genetic code.

Having relations with Satan the shapeshifting serpent is what did it. Their (Adam and Eve's) physical lifespan was cut short once the serpent corrupted her both physically and spiritually.

The light that they originally had became "darkened". Christ/God restored the light to mankind thru His own body. He gave Himself so mankind would have full and eternal life once again.

The last link i sent is a link to the story of the old Greek myth Prometheus and Jupiter (Zeus).. if your interesting read it and let me know your thoughts..

I didn't get any link from you. Send it anyway if you want.

The mythological "gods" Prometheus and Jupiter, were probably based on the fallen angels/nephilim, who were real.

[amethyst]

OK, well I can appreciate that but just wanted to clarify it. You do say it is one possible use though, that does not mean that this is the intended use does it.

Can I ask why you say it only applies to that part of the text? in the case of christ telling people to eat of his body, why should it not be applied there also?

Do you not know what context means?

Context: "the set of circumstances or facts that surround a particular event, situation, etc."

No, Christ never told anyone to physically "eat" his body. He did however say, "do this in rememberance of me."

Luke 22:19 And he took bread, and gave thanks, and broke it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.

[amethyst]

But have you even ascertained that satan and the serpent are the same?

Maybe this was actually all part of the plan. What would God prefer, souls that are kept as pets or ones who know good and evil and can make decisions?

Satan was said to be an angel but the serpent is said to be more subtle than all the beasts of the field. Not really compatible are they. One has spiritual origin the other a more animal origin.


Revelation 12:9: "And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. "

Different names, same individual.

[marpat]

Do you not know what context means?

Context: "the set of circumstances or facts that surround a particular event, situation, etc."

No, Christ never told anyone to physically "eat" his body. He did however say, "do this in rememberance of me."

Luke 22:19 And he took bread, and gave thanks, and broke it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.

But you are taking one lot of ideas and putting tem into a literal context, namely that of the last supper, then you are taking the ideas of genesis and putting a totally different spin on them, a deeply symbolic view. When you speak of context the genesis theory only exists if you choose to apply certain meaning to words that are not necessarily implied. True there could be a strong sexual link but that does not mean Eve had sex with the serpent.

Can you explain why genesis would put all of this into very deep symbolism but other parts of the bible state that the sons of god came into the daughters of men? why try to completely remove and reference to sex from one place but make it obvious in others?

[marpat]

Revelation 12:9: "And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. "

Different names, same individual.


And that is it? who said the author of the revelations was correct? what if he was just biased?

[amethyst]

And that is it? who said the author of the revelations was correct? what if he was just biased?

Don't have time answer you more throughly......but take time, think on it and take all the scripture that is written on the topic as a "whole", and don't isolate it to one example....if, you are willing to do an indept study on it and not a perusal of it.

Most people don't want to do the indepth study. Perhaps you will?

[thirdwave]

Satan the serpent who is a liar, and the father of all lies as scripture states, was the "forbidden fruit".

wait a sec.... do you take the Genesis story litral?.. if so are we now in the knolwsege that lucifer/satan was a snake?

I am sure the scriptures do state all that but it does not make the scriptures right... the scriptures have not told you .."by the way this story was taken from the Greek myths" ... does it? .. yet it has a striking resemblance...

The truth is Satan did not lie at all.... he told them they would not die... they did not, he told them they would see as God did... and see good and evil... where is the lie the snake told?


He got kicked out of the third heaven where God resides. He thought he could take God's place and tried to mutiny in heaven. but your telling it from the thug gods perspective who was such a power hungry greedy arse hole he did not want Man kind understanding more than he wanted them to, so he could be above them...

Where are the texts that show the serpent wanting to take Gods place!... please forward them.... As far as I could tell the snake made an effort to help adam and eve over come god.... it was nothing to do with what the snake wanted.


But since he isnt God, he failed. He lost his high position that he had in heaven.

Well God clearly does not have as much power than you would like to think if he is so afraid of Lucifer.... I personally think Lucifer kicks gods arse because he knows god is full of shit and any man and woman can over come him and be their own gods.

We are living in the days where God is finaly being seen for the arse hole he has always been... of course when I say god ..i mean "God".

He "fell" to earth and was in the garden of Eden, as was Adam and Eve.

lol... Woooops!, so God must have gone .. "Shit!, fuck me I did not see him fall there!.. fuck, sorry guys!, He was meant to go to hell he must of cliped the side and fell out....

and he has still not got rid of him !

Prior to their "fall" and corruption with the serpent, Adam and Eve would have lived forever in their physical state. They were innocent. But Eve, by being seduced by Satan the serpent, introduced death into the genetic code.

You tell a cool story and good on you, but can you pass on the texts of all this??, as Its better if people take there own views on such texts.... especially texts that are meant to be of such important to their spirit.


Having relations with Satan the shapeshifting serpent is what did it. Their (Adam and Eve's) physical lifespan was cut short once the serpent corrupted her both physically and spiritually.

I am not saying the Serpent was there to give them paradise.... the serpent was there to show them they were not really in paradise and if they wanted to truly be there then it is up to them...not the tricking god there were worshipping and serving.



The light that they originally had became "darkened". Christ/God restored the light to mankind thru His own body. He gave Himself so mankind would have full and eternal life once again.

Through every drop of blood slashed out of his body and with every agonising scream he aired when the nails smashed through his hands.... that's not my language im afraid...

I didn't get any link from you. Send it anyway if you want.

http://www.authorama.com/old-greek-stories-5.html


The mythological "gods" Prometheus and Jupiter, were probably based on the fallen angels/nephilim, who were real.


Im sure all these myths and symbolic stories to an extent.... how far that is, neither You or me know.

And that may well be the case with the Greek myths... but none the less they are still the same symbolic stories and even the astrological stuff is the same.

[thirdwave]

Don't have time answer you more throughly......but take time, think on it and take all the scripture that is written on the topic as a "whole", and don't isolate it to one example....if, you are willing to do an indept study on it and not a perusal of it.

Most people don't want to do the indepth study. Perhaps you will?

LOL... Hu??

I have not only gone through the story in Genesis but I have dug into other smiler stories if that is not in depth then what is??

[marpat]

Don't have time answer you more throughly......but take time, think on it and take all the scripture that is written on the topic as a "whole", and don't isolate it to one example....if, you are willing to do an indept study on it and not a perusal of it.

Most people don't want to do the indepth study. Perhaps you will?

Who said I have not been down that path but just came to a different conclusion? I have not been restricted in my views by some religious background which only permits certain accepted beliefs.

There is a lot more to that story than eve and the serpent you know. Eve was only the second wife according to traditions, created to be subservent to adam as his first wife, Lillith, refused to be dominated by him.

And anyway, dont you feel we are digressing from the thread title? Horus has many similarities to Jesus, both come as redeemers and represent the light, coming with the authority of a heavenly father to claim his throne.

[amethyst]

wait a sec.... do you take the Genesis story litral?.. if so are we now in the knolwsege that lucifer/satan was a snake?

I am sure the scriptures do state all that but it does not make the scriptures right... the scriptures have not told you .."by the way this story was taken from the Greek myths" ... does it? .. yet it has a striking resemblance...

The truth is Satan did not lie at all.... he told them they would not die... they did not, he told them they would see as God did... and see good and evil... where is the lie the snake told?

but your telling it from the thug gods perspective who was such a power hungry greedy arse hole he did not want Man kind understanding more than he wanted them to, so he could be above them...

Where are the texts that show the serpent wanting to take Gods place!... please forward them.... As far as I could tell the snake made an effort to help adam and eve over come god.... it was nothing to do with what the snake wanted.



Well God clearly does not have as much power than you would like to think if he is so afraid of Lucifer.... I personally think Lucifer kicks gods arse because he knows god is full of shit and any man and woman can over come him and be their own gods.

We are living in the days where God is finaly being seen for the arse hole he has always been... of course when I say god ..i mean "God".



lol... Woooops!, so God must have gone .. "Shit!, fuck me I did not see him fall there!.. fuck, sorry guys!, He was meant to go to hell he must of cliped the side and fell out....

and he has still not got rid of him !



You tell a cool story and good on you, but can you pass on the texts of all this??, as Its better if people take there own views on such texts.... especially texts that are meant to be of such important to their spirit.



I am not saying the Serpent was there to give them paradise.... the serpent was there to show them they were not really in paradise and if they wanted to truly be there then it is up to them...not the tricking god there were worshipping and serving.





Through every drop of blood slashed out of his body and with every agonising scream he aired when the nails smashed through his hands.... that's not my language im afraid...



http://www.authorama.com/old-greek-stories-5.html



Im sure all these myths and symbolic stories to an extent.... how far that is, neither You or me know.

And that may well be the case with the Greek myths... but none the less they are still the same symbolic stories and even the astrological stuff is the same.

Don't believe in God then.

No one's twisting your arm.

You do seem to have some sort of God complex to try and prove that you think God doesn't exist.

But there are a lot who have experienced the presence and power of God, and are at various stages of their understanding.

So suit yourself then. Go argue with a tree or something.

[thirdwave]

Revelation 12:9: "And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. "

Different names, same individual.

Ok, so you obviously feel that the book of Revelations is the place to get the run down of God...

So what are your views on these loving words here?

2:20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.
2:21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.
2:22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.
2:23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

and here

17:15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.
17:16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.
17:17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.
17:18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.


Now Im sorry but the guy in that book is an arse hole and he can kiss my arse....

the being that come to Eve behind that thugs back and said...



Snake - Did God say, You must not eat from some of the tree's here in the garden?

Eve - We may eat the fruit from these tree's here but God said we must not eat from those Trees over there, He told us we are not to eat or touch them or we will die.

Snake - You wont Die at all, God knows that should you eat that fruit then your eyes shall be opened and you will become gods your self knowing good and evil.


Deserves a pat on the back!

Thank You Snake!

[thirdwave]

Don't believe in God then.
No one's twisting your arm.

no they are not, not that they would have much joy!

And please understand because one does not believe in the bible .. it does not mean they don't believe in God... I have told you many times I believe God IS.... I don't believe in A GOD...

which means I do believe in God every bit as much as you do... but not in the same way.


You do seem to have some sort of God complex to try and prove that you think God doesn't exist.
No complex what's so ever... I like to research info and not ignore stuff... some stuff in religion is the biggest culprit for lying covering up info, or ignoring info.. I am not trying to prove anything as final, I am simply pointing stuff out.

if you think you god is the real deal then good for you... I am not going around to religious forums attacking them,... its their choice... good luck to them... I am on a David Icke forum discussing oppressed information.

why does that constitute some kind of complex?... where should I go to discuss these things??


But there are a lot who have experienced the presence and power of God, and are at various stages of their understanding.


you are ignoring everything that I have said... Icke has said... Tsarion has said.. and pretty much everyone else that points this kind of info out...

Your experiences are very real... no one is doubting that... however, it does not mean you have been educated about them right.

if you are a god, which I believe you are... then why would you not be able to experience the feelings you have had??


So suit yourself then. Go argue with a tree or something.

well you never know!!.. I might meet that most excellent snake! :)

[1977]

If you read the writings of the Neoplatonists, they explain what the allegories behind the Greek Myths mean. Prometheus is the higher Intellect (he "casts fire in the minds of men," say the Illuminati); the rock to which he is chained is matter (the body). Zosimos the Alchemist also gives a good explanation: http://sacred-texts.com/gno/th3/th342.htm
18. And [it is] the Hebrews alone and the Sacred Books of Hermes [which tell us] these things about the man of light and his Guide the Son of God, and about the earthy Adam and his Guide, the Counterfeit, who doth blasphemously call himself Son of God, for leading men astray. 4

19. But the Greeks call the earthy Adam Epimetheus, who is counselled by his own mind, that is, his brother, not to receive the gifts of Zeus. Nevertheless being both deceived 5 and repenting, 6 and seeking the Blessed Land. . . . 7

But Prometheus, that is the mind, interprets all things and gives good counsel in all things to them who have understanding and hearing. But they who have only fleshly hearing are “processions of Fate.”
Note, also, Zosimos' explicit identification of Prometheus with the "Son of God," and also of the Pagan Antichrist, "who doth blasphemously call himself Son of God."
And that is it? who said the author of the revelations was correct? what if he was just biased?
The "old serpent" is the Egyptian Apep Serpent (conflated with Set in some later literature). The whole chapter is a reference to the myth of Isis (the Woman Clothed with the Sun) and Horus (first noted by Champollion, I believe).
Yet another set of late myths detail the adventures of Isis after the birth of Osiris's posthumous son, Horus. Isis was said to have given birth to Horus at Khemmis, thought to be located on the Nile Delta.[10] Many dangers faced Horus after birth, and Isis fled with the newborn to escape the wrath of Set, the murderer of her husband. In one instance, Isis heals Horus from a lethal scorpion sting; she also performs other miracles in relation to the cippi, or the plaques of Horus. Isis protected and raised Horus until he was old enough to face Set, and subsequently, became the pharaoh of Egypt.

The Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isis) retelling of the story is unsatisfactory and is mixing up several accounts, but it should suffice until I can find a proper reference.

[vinnyharris]

amethyst "These scriptures have nothing to do with Jesus being Horus."

You're completely unaware of the Egyptian religion and its profound influence upon the much later Judaio-Christian religions. You may want to raise that that argument with the early Egyptian Christians, who repeatedly identified both Osiris and Horus with Jesus.

"Over a century ago, renowned British Egyptologist Sir Dr. E.A. Wallis Budge (1857-1934), a Keeper of the Egyptian and Assyrian Antiquities at the British Museum, as well as a confessed Christian, remarked that a study tracing the “influence of ancient Egyptian religious beliefs and mythology on Christianity” would “fill a comparatively large volume."

- "Christ in Egypt" preface

Here is a new youtube video description of the book:

Christ in Egypt: The Horus-Jesus Connection
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_ZmsRUmuWU&feature=channel_page

[vinnyharris]

Here's an article - I think much of it comes from "Christ in Egypt"

Was Horus "Crucified?"
http://www.stellarhousepublishing.com/washoruscrucified.html

I have "Christ in Egypt" - it's a must have.

[mikel84]

christ was born in india and killed herod he then traveled back and was involved in the pandav war in india