Police fear UK 'summer of rage'

[john connor]

From todays Ministry of propoganda site AKA BBC

Police are preparing to face a "summer of rage" in the UK as people join protests over the economic downturn, says a senior Met Police officer.

"Known activists" were likely to foment unrest, with the recession creating more "footsoldiers" to join them, Supt David Hartshorn told the Guardian.

http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7905172.stm

[orderoutofchaos]

I cant wait.!!!

[john connor]

And just to throw fuel onto the fire...another EU fire lighter

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/85845/Invasion-of-1-an-hour-migrants

[omnit]

Its going to get hairy lol!

I just hope its directed in the right direction, I feel the 'middle' class people will be out in force but may become targeted?

concerned is how i would put it!

[knightbk]

What are they going to protest exactly, that the economy sucks? What is the government supposed to do, their continued interference is what fucks it up.

[belial]

The Police will get to try out their new toys... the tazer guns.

Tazer guns don't stop fire bombs though ;)

[john connor]

Do you not think that by stating this there is more likely to be trouble? building it up.

[gilly]

Do you not think that by stating this there is more likely to be trouble? building it up.

Yes they're encouraging it.

That's the predicament - react, & it gives them the excuse they're looking for to bring in a police state - don't react, and it gives the impression that we're all thick, apathetic or spineless sheep. :confused:

[halftheworldaway]

Saturday's protest in Ireland attracted a minimum of 100,000 people. Pro rata wise, a march by 1.5 million Britons would be required to match them, but I don't foresee even 50,000 taking to the streets this Summer because it's so very difficult what with the welter of many great TV programmes to watch with soaps on every day along with celebrity dancing, ice skating, cooking and singing knock-out competitions to enjoy together with many reality shows that are really, really good too.

[cruise4]

Protests are a waste of time. Removal isn't. Trouble is they will all do the former so what's the point? Zero. Police state proper will only arise with outside help, either EU or UN. Prepare for the powers to be 'given away'.

[nirvana]

We can protest and demonstrate this is what the nwo wants ,it gives them an excuse for more control etc.

Or we an do the only thing that has a chance of working and that is creating an alternative way of living.
By this I mean everyone comming together for peace and brotherhood etc. And having a mass no council tax payments, start organising our own organic farms etc. And taking our power back.We can do this instead of fighting a system we do not agree with.
We dont change a system by fighting it .We change the system by changing it and not conforming.


Peace:)

[john connor]

Except if they bring in Codex, Organic will be out the window, be a lot of allotments go...enforced by jobs worth councils

[lynfowars]

So the cops say "banks will be viable targets" [for riots/protests]

That will do no good. Like 911, some rich prick like Silverstein will make money from the insurance, and the ordinary front-desk workers will have no jobs to go to.

Now if there were protest at the helicopter pads in the home addesses of clearly defined members of this ruining elite, that would be a different story altogether...

They want us fighting each other. How novel if for once in recent history, we said "no!", and went round THEIR homes instead with rope...

[belial]

It's saddening how people talk about a peaceful solution to the UK's problems.

It's because of peace that the UK is in such a mess. And by peace, I mean people have just sat on their backsides and done nothing about the issues that are increasingly affecting us. If you wish for peace, then prepare for war. History has proven that violence solves problems: look at the riots in Greece and Iceland for instance.

When dealing with a controlling and corrupt entity like the government you have to realise that they will use extreme violence to enforce their views... 7/7 being a prime example... and now we have 'anti-terror' laws to control us even further. This must be stopped by whatever means necessary. Diplomacy and peaceful solutions don't work, I'm afraid.

The two primary enemies will be the Police and possibly the army. Through strength in numbers, stealth, and organisation we can defeat these scum and then take the country back.

It's no secret that groups like the National Front are waiting for the day to take back this country and are now extremely well prepared for the likes of the Police and the army.

Smashing this oppressive government and it's army will have to be done properly as if they win then they have every excuse to turn the UK into a Police state run by martial law.

My views may seem extreme to some people... well... we are dealing with an extreme enemy: the government. People need to wake up and realise this.

:)

[tusme]

I just hope its directed in the right direction, I feel the 'middle' class people will be out in force but may become targeted?
The "middle class people" are the intended targets...since the day, the NWO plans were agreed upon...!! :eek:

When the "middle class people" are unsettled by chaos...their plans for Martial Law/Police State will fall into place...in exactly the way they wanted it too...!!

[skyfish]

It's saddening how people talk about a peaceful solution to the UK's problems.

It's because of peace that the UK is in such a mess. And by peace, I mean people have just sat on their backsides and done nothing about the issues that are increasingly affecting us. If you wish for peace, then prepare for war. History has proven that violence solves problems: look at the riots in Greece and Iceland for instance.

When dealing with a controlling and corrupt entity like the government you have to realise that they will use extreme violence to enforce their views... 7/7 being a prime example... and now we have 'anti-terror' laws to control us even further. This must be stopped by whatever means necessary. Diplomacy and peaceful solutions don't work, I'm afraid.

The two primary enemies will be the Police and possibly the army. Through strength in numbers, stealth, and organisation we can defeat these scum and then take the country back.

It's no secret that groups like the National Front are waiting for the day to take back this country and are now extremely well prepared for the likes of the Police and the army.

Smashing this oppressive government and it's army will have to be done properly as if they win then they have every excuse to turn the UK into a Police state run by martial law.

My views may seem extreme to some people... well... we are dealing with an extreme enemy: the government. People need to wake up and realise this.

:)


No, I'm sorry, but I believe that you are wrong. "You cannot solve a problem with the same level of consciousness that created it." If you want peace, you have peace. You don't war to get peace. That is oxymoronish crap that the ptb use to justify their crappy wars.

[adzboarder]

MASS non-compliance is what is needed. Rage will achieve nothing!

Clearly POLICE STATE UK is rising.

[rich157]

MASS non-compliance is what is needed. Rage will achieve nothing!

Clearly POLICE STATE UK is rising.

Yep..


Police should 'ground' kids say Tories

Shadow home secretary, Chris Grayling, today called for the police to be given the power to ground young troublemakers in their homes.

Speaking to the Local Government Association(LGA) in his first major address as shadow home secretary, Mr Grayling said he would instruct police to collect persistent young troublemakers and bring them to the station to wait to be picked up.

He said: "Our police should have powers to go straight to a magistrate and get an order against that troublemaker confining them to their homes for up to a month – except for during school hours.

"And if they break that curfew order they should expect to find themselves in the cells.

"I will expect someone who is picked up by police for being drunk and disorderly in the town centre on a Friday night to spend a night in the cells, not a night in the A&E department."

Mr Grayling said that in order to tackle the problem of persistent young offenders, the police and communities would have to demand immediate and strong action.

He said: "We’re not going to deal with the problem of antisocial behaviour with a gradualist strategy.

"It just needs to be stamped out – and we should demand tough action from our police in doing so."

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/14/20090223/tpl-police-should-ground-kids-say-tories-81c5b50.html

[truthseeker1980]

MASS non-compliance is what is needed. Rage will achieve nothing!

Clearly POLICE STATE UK is rising.

Exactly what has a protest ever done other than the protestors being attakced by police and arrested for their views. Over a million people marched on london about the Iraq war back in 2003, did they listen NO, we are still occupying them now FFS. So they didn't listen then and wont now, they want us to protest and riot so they can bring in martial law.

Let's always be one step ahead of them and not fall straight into their trap.

What we need to do and this will hurt them the hardest, is all go on strike, absolutely everyone, bring the economy to it's knees well before their plan to. Scare the shit out of them by showing them we are no longer worried about money and can no longer be a slave to them if we dont care about what is enslaving us.

The only thing is that most people who are going to want to protest dont know as much as we do and wouldn't realise that protesting is playing straight into their plans for martial law.

How many UK people on this forum are employed by a company not of their own, i'd imagine it isn't that high and not high enough to make any diffrence if all of us went on strike.

So we need to start a facebook group or something, there are plenty of pissed off motorists on facebook who are trying to boycott the UK road and fuel tax after the failings of our government in the snow 3 weeks ago, not to mention the free palistien group on there. These two groups would help spread the word about a planned strike, it's just we need to work out what we are going to call this group and what needs to be mentioned, but we have the resources to get the message and idea out there and use a tool which they monitor us with to bring down their plans.

What does everyone else think?

[dreamweaver]

Exactly what has a protest ever done other than the protestors being attakced by police and arrested for their views. Over a million people marched on london about the Iraq war back in 2003, did they listen NO, we are still occupying them now FFS. So they didn't listen then and wont now, they want us to protest and riot so they can bring in martial law.

Let's always be one step ahead of them and not fall straight into their trap.

What we need to do and this will hurt them the hardest, is all go on strike, absolutely everyone, bring the economy to it's knees well before their plan to. Scare the shit out of them by showing them we are no longer worried about money and can no longer be a slave to them if we dont care about what is enslaving us.

The only thing is that most people who are going to want to protest dont know as much as we do and wouldn't realise that protesting is playing straight into their plans for martial law.

How many UK people on this forum are employed by a company not of their own, i'd imagine it isn't that high and not high enough to make any diffrence if all of us went on strike.

So we need to start a facebook group or something, there are plenty of pissed off motorists on facebook who are trying to boycott the UK road and fuel tax after the failings of our government in the snow 3 weeks ago, not to mention the free palistien group on there. These two groups would help spread the word about a planned strike, it's just we need to work out what we are going to call this group and what needs to be mentioned, but we have the resources to get the message and idea out there and use a tool which they monitor us with to bring down their plans.

What does everyone else think?

I agree wholeheartedly, let's have a general strike. And trust NO union leaders or 'revolutrionary parties' trying to take control, we need to organise entirely independently of them.

[yozhik]

Protest can take many forms.

Targeting banks with marches and molotov cocktails, as someone has already pointed out; is futile.

Someone else eluded to 1,5 million protesters are needed to equal the efforts of the Irish. A hard feat to match, if relying on a march.

However, what if the protest from Britons was to take the form of an economic protest?
What if ... instead of protesting with their feet, people protested with their wallets?
You want to hurt the powers that enslave you?
Then starve them of their fuel.
Make a list of targeted, purposefully selected multi-nationals and boycott them. Totally.
Yes - it will take some sacrifice - for example, a coordinated cancelling of Sky subscriptions :eek: ... but until people start putting rights ahead of comforts, freedom ahead of benefits and the future ahead of materialistic trinkets ... then the protestations don't mean enough.

Faux causes fought by aggrieved wannabes.

The sight of 1,5 million people taking to the streets will scare the crap out of some people and provide the "just cause" the muppets in parliament are looking for to introduce the next wave of draconian rules.

Empty streets and empty shops will leave a more lasting and peaceful mark, where it counts ... in their accounts.
Here's a good start with a good reason;

Tesco chief executive Sir Terry Leahy has signalled that the retailer is willing to back genetically modified (GM) foods, saying consumer attitudes have changed and it has a vital part to play.

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=54921

His justification is that "consumer attitudes have changed" ... in other words, GM food is being blamed on us, or rather, we wanted it.
Maybe its time to show Sir Terry Leahy about "changing consumer attitudes".
Or is the thought of having to give up 3.99 chickens for the aggrieved wannabes too much?
Maybe some other faux cause isn't as "uncomfortable" as not complying with Tesco's policies by shopping somewhere else.


.

[yozhik]

I agree wholeheartedly, let's have a general strike. And trust NO union leaders or 'revolutrionary parties' trying to take control, we need to organise entirely independently of them.

Do what the French do ... get a pile of trailered lorries to block all the motorways ... or maybe a inadvertent (and unavoidable) accident which spills tonnes of manure outside the Metropolitan Police station at all entries and exits :D

The possibilities are endless.


.

[resistance]

Yes they're encouraging it.

That's the predicament - react, & it gives them the excuse they're looking for to bring in a police state - don't react, and it gives the impression that we're all thick, apathetic or spineless sheep. :confused:

Gilly i'm afraid that we allready live in a police state and have for some time now.

[truthseeker1980]

The posibilities are endless but we need to start thinking about which one or few methods we are going to use and actually stick by it.

We need some proper organisation and planning for it to work.

Maybe some well designed info starting off with the WAGE freezes that all the big conglomerates have enposed upon us for about 15 years, as it's the WAGE FREEZE which has helped cause us all to live on the never never and have to borrow from the evil controllers of worthless paper, just to survive and also what our government is forever telling us is what the economy needs, more borrowing.:(

How can the fact that most people have to borrow to survive indicate a good ecomomy? It doesn't it just means a good ecomony for the bankers, politicians and illuminatis pockets, not ours.

If someone designed an email which starts off with why we are in this situation and how it's the banks and big businesses who have manufactured the problem by freezing wages for over 10 years which in turn then stops small independent co's from increasing to a fair survivable wage.

Together with videos like Zeitgeist and alike, and then ask the question, why should we bail them out if the money never existed and these banks and big co's which are now failing are the reason we are in this position.

Do it in stages, feed the unawake people this info in small bite size chunks and then once we have sent enough of the basic stuiff like above start to send more info and eventually start the mass strike idea.

Probably going to be on the terrorist list for planning activities against the government now. Oh well, i couldn't give two.

[1971]

Living in a dream world I would like to say that it really should be third summer of love - seeing as things happen in a cycle...1969 - 1988/9 - 2009 :)

[scooby85]

The Police will get to try out their new toys... the tazer guns.

Tazer guns don't stop fire bombs though ;)

dont u just love a brave cyber warrior :)

[nirvana]

It's saddening how people talk about a peaceful solution to the UK's problems.

It's because of peace that the UK is in such a mess. And by peace, I mean people have just sat on their backsides and done nothing about the issues that are increasingly affecting us. If you wish for peace, then prepare for war. History has proven that violence solves problems: look at the riots in Greece and Iceland for instance.

When dealing with a controlling and corrupt entity like the government you have to realise that they will use extreme violence to enforce their views... 7/7 being a prime example... and now we have 'anti-terror' laws to control us even further. This must be stopped by whatever means necessary. Diplomacy and peaceful solutions don't work, I'm afraid.

The two primary enemies will be the Police and possibly the army. Through strength in numbers, stealth, and organisation we can defeat these scum and then take the country back.

It's no secret that groups like the National Front are waiting for the day to take back this country and are now extremely well prepared for the likes of the Police and the army.

Smashing this oppressive government and it's army will have to be done properly as if they win then they have every excuse to turn the UK into a Police state run by martial law.

My views may seem extreme to some people... well... we are dealing with an extreme enemy: the government. People need to wake up and realise this.

:)

The National front waiting for the day to take back the country . These would be part of the problem the same as the bnp or the left wing fascists of the socialist workers party etc.
These are just controlled opposition .

Peace:)

[nirvana]

MASS non-compliance is what is needed. Rage will achieve nothing!

Clearly POLICE STATE UK is rising.


Yes this is the only thing that may just have a chance of working.


Peace:)

[oiram]

So the cops say "banks will be viable targets" [for riots/protests]

That will do no good. Like 911, some rich prick like Silverstein will make money from the insurance, and the ordinary front-desk workers will have no jobs to go to.

Now if there were protest at the helicopter pads in the home addesses of clearly defined members of this ruining elite, that would be a different story altogether...

They want us fighting each other. How novel if for once in recent history, we said "no!", and went round THEIR homes instead with rope...

So the cops say "banks will be viable targets" = That's right & typical ....... who are the Cops working for? That's right! They selected there targets already & who do you think will start the first Fire. A Cop dressed up in Osama bin Laden clothing.

Now you are one of the person with you're mind set I like to sit together in a sniper location!

Every retard you spot which tries to burn public serving usable assets.
Select the target aim; breath out and bullseye one retard which made his own choice less on this nice earth! No harm done!

Now the test will come soon how smart or retarded western people really are.

My respect:
If People all together go for the real source of the problem then they are very smart indeed!
Now if there were protest at the helicopter pads in the home address of clearly defined members of this running elite, that would be a different story altogether...
Also obsolete Bank buildings would make perfect apartments for homeless people.
Or could be converted to a all needed Hospital!

If they destroy assets which are in use by the public & are for the public then these individuals are total retards & should be targeted by the smart public also & should be classified as source problem.

A smart person will evaluate his target not destroy things which are of value to the general life support.

The world does not need retards it needs comm & sense logical humans looking after each other.

Every restrained retard is a good retard.
Don't forget who are the once Voting retards & criminals into power in the first place.

Unless they oppose it, they will be blamed for it. If they defend it, they are part of it!


I seen this shit going down twice in Asia & in a real life situation & the Asians proved to them selfs that they are total retards.

They just followed the Firers which the Army & Police started them self's of cause working for the corrupt Government in the first place.

Problem .... Reaction ..... Solution .... Profit



This of-cause is the one which is the most logical one & can only be achieved with very smart united people!
Do we have enough of them??????? With this solution even your Granny's & you're children can be a part of the Historical party!
MASS non-compliance is what is needed. Rage will achieve nothing!

Clearly POLICE STATE UK is rising.

[rhydra]

It's to pre-empt the possible decision of martial law in the UK, get people used to the possibility of those awful unemployes hooligans on the streets, good excuse to have the army on the streets. Look at how they got it so that they had tanks at Heathrow, "just for our protection," etc.

Remember that bill that was passed some time ago, 2005 or 2006, the Civil Contingencies Bill, the one where they could close down parliament, cancel elections, round up people, move populations from one part of the country to another and shut down any political movement? That's the one.

That was in case of a terrorist attack, we know that terrorism legislation is always used on anyone other than terrorists and they would not have passed the Civil Contingencies Bill had they not intended to use their shiny new toy would they?

[adbasque]

From todays Ministry of propoganda site AKA BBC

Police are preparing to face a "summer of rage" in the UK as people join protests over the economic downturn, says a senior Met Police officer.

"Known activists" were likely to foment unrest, with the recession creating more "footsoldiers" to join them, Supt David Hartshorn told the Guardian.

http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7905172.stm

This was planned about two or three years ago, the civil unrest, they have taken all precautions already, to deploy the necessary police force.

They've been working on it, before the recession hit the news, which proves one thing, the same people who are using the propaganda to prepare us for civil unrest are the same people who orchestrated the economic crisis.

Which means they have more things for us in store, this economic crisis is leading us to worse things, maybe a nuclear war, 90% sure this is what's coming.
amongst other things, most people out there believe it's just a recession and it will be over like the previous ones, wrong!!

it will end yes but with a fascist world government in place and maybe millions and millions dead, the remaining will be starving, it doesn't look good at all.

Unless we do something right now to stop it, we are all doomed, and especially people from working class, and the poor will suffer greatly

[dreamweaver]

This was planned about two or three years ago, the civil unrest, they have taken all precautions already, to deploy the necessary police force.

They've been working on it, before the recession hit the news, which proves one thing, the same people who are using the propaganda to prepare us for civil unrest are the same people who orchestrated the economic crisis.

Indeed, remember Icke was warning in his by-election talk last summer that TPTB were preparing for the civil unrest. He said back then that traffic wardens and other council jobsworths were being given powers to enter homes etc because the real police were going to be deployed to deal with all this unrest.

The government haven't just been "preparing" for the unrest, they are creating it through their undercover agents.

[adbasque]

Protest can take many forms.

Targeting banks with marches and molotov cocktails, as someone has already pointed out; is futile.

Someone else eluded to 1,5 million protesters are needed to equal the efforts of the Irish. A hard feat to match, if relying on a march.

However, what if the protest from Britons was to take the form of an economic protest?
What if ... instead of protesting with their feet, people protested with their wallets?
You want to hurt the powers that enslave you?
Then starve them of their fuel.
Make a list of targeted, purposefully selected multi-nationals and boycott them. Totally.
.

That is exactly what I suggested in my previous posts and comments, we need to boycot the system, starve the banks withdraw our money and change it into valuables and stock away, if just from this forum we organise a day we all do it at the same time, we screw them big time.

what's the point in going and smashing buildings?
they are just going to rebuild them with our money again, do people think that these bastards will take it out of their pockets?

We must starve them and they will be begging people to come back, and once it starts it will be like a snow ball, they will definitely feel the burden, only then they will f** understand who is boss.

The only problem with this action is that people are scared and afraid to take action.

[hunter77]

Saturday's protest in Ireland attracted a minimum of 100,000 people. Pro rata wise, a march by 1.5 million Britons would be required to match them, but I don't foresee even 50,000 taking to the streets this Summer because it's so very difficult what with the welter of many great TV programmes to watch with soaps on every day along with celebrity dancing, ice skating, cooking and singing knock-out competitions to enjoy together with many reality shows that are really, really good too.

there was 400,000 on the pro hunt march, so hopefully thr numbers would be up on this, although i do see your point everyone likes moaning but no one likes doing.:(

[twistedconcept]

If Eastenders is on, don't expect too many to be annoyed.

[adbasque]

If Eastenders is on, don't expect too many to be annoyed.
Unless you cause a blackout no power for a good 45 minutes, and switch it back on after the flipping eastenders is finished.

How stupid is that, people for the last 20 + years watching the same idiotic programmes and they call themselves clever?

there's nothing that controls you more than these soaps, absolutely ridiculous.

If I had the power I promise you I'll cause a blackout everyday for at least a month just before eastenders and corry start.

and switch it back on and I'll be saving energy doing something useful to the nation lol :D
just kidding

[januspolanski]

Protest can take many forms.

Targeting banks with marches and molotov cocktails, as someone has already pointed out; is futile.

Someone else eluded to 1,5 million protesters are needed to equal the efforts of the Irish. A hard feat to match, if relying on a march.

However, what if the protest from Britons was to take the form of an economic protest?
What if ... instead of protesting with their feet, people protested with their wallets?
You want to hurt the powers that enslave you?
Then starve them of their fuel.
Make a list of targeted, purposefully selected multi-nationals and boycott them. Totally.
Yes - it will take some sacrifice - for example, a coordinated cancelling of Sky subscriptions :eek: ... but until people start putting rights ahead of comforts, freedom ahead of benefits and the future ahead of materialistic trinkets ... then the protestations don't mean enough.

Faux causes fought by aggrieved wannabes.

The sight of 1,5 million people taking to the streets will scare the crap out of some people and provide the "just cause" the muppets in parliament are looking for to introduce the next wave of draconian rules.

Empty streets and empty shops will leave a more lasting and peaceful mark, where it counts ... in their accounts.
Here's a good start with a good reason;


His justification is that "consumer attitudes have changed" ... in other words, GM food is being blamed on us, or rather, we wanted it.
Maybe its time to show Sir Terry Leahy about "changing consumer attitudes".
Or is the thought of having to give up 3.99 chickens for the aggrieved wannabes too much?
Maybe some other faux cause isn't as "uncomfortable" as not complying with Tesco's policies by shopping somewhere else.


.

Yes +1

Hit them where it hurts, in their pocket. Not with violence like they ve prepared for.

Take all money out of the banks and put in smaller local banks or under mattress. Dont use big corporation petrol stations. Dont buy offending newspapers or watch propaganda TV then they have no choice but to listen. Dont pay TV Licence en masse or Council tax etc. They have no defense for this.

In 1974 Australia Frank Sinatra called the female journalists of the country a bunch of whores. He was given a black ban which means that any member of a trade union couldnt serve him, hotel staff, airports, taxis. He was stuck until he apologised. This is the action that is required vs Government.

[redhead]

Protest can take many forms.

Targeting banks with marches and molotov cocktails, as someone has already pointed out; is futile.

Someone else eluded to 1,5 million protesters are needed to equal the efforts of the Irish. A hard feat to match, if relying on a march.

However, what if the protest from Britons was to take the form of an economic protest?
What if ... instead of protesting with their feet, people protested with their wallets?
You want to hurt the powers that enslave you?
Then starve them of their fuel.
Make a list of targeted, purposefully selected multi-nationals and boycott them. Totally.
Yes - it will take some sacrifice - for example, a coordinated cancelling of Sky subscriptions :eek: ... but until people start putting rights ahead of comforts, freedom ahead of benefits and the future ahead of materialistic trinkets ... then the protestations don't mean enough.

Faux causes fought by aggrieved wannabes.

The sight of 1,5 million people taking to the streets will scare the crap out of some people and provide the "just cause" the muppets in parliament are looking for to introduce the next wave of draconian rules.

Empty streets and empty shops will leave a more lasting and peaceful mark, where it counts ... in their accounts.
Here's a good start with a good reason;


His justification is that "consumer attitudes have changed" ... in other words, GM food is being blamed on us, or rather, we wanted it.
Maybe its time to show Sir Terry Leahy about "changing consumer attitudes".
Or is the thought of having to give up 3.99 chickens for the aggrieved wannabes too much?
Maybe some other faux cause isn't as "uncomfortable" as not complying with Tesco's policies by shopping somewhere else.


.

Fantastic post, this IS the way forward, all we have to do is leave them as the only inhabitants in there own stinking, corrupt system, after all an eye for an eye only leaves the whole world blind.

[darryl84]

From todays Ministry of propoganda site AKA BBC

Police are preparing to face a "summer of rage" in the UK as people join protests over the economic downturn, says a senior Met Police officer.

"Known activists" were likely to foment unrest, with the recession creating more "footsoldiers" to join them, Supt David Hartshorn told the Guardian.

http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7905172.stm


The powers that be WISH there was trouble, because that would give an excuse for them to increase police powers, that is why an article like this is publicised by mainstream media.

No bad can come if love is spread, thats why fear is driven into people, the idea of violence is publicised to induce a violent response. That is why you do not see mainstream media spreading loving messages every hour, on the hour, imagine if they did, there would be even more love in the world!

[thenymph]

Saturday's protest in Ireland attracted a minimum of 100,000 people. Pro rata wise, a march by 1.5 million Britons would be required to match them, but I don't foresee even 50,000 taking to the streets this Summer because it's so very difficult what with the welter of many great TV programmes to watch with soaps on every day along with celebrity dancing, ice skating, cooking and singing knock-out competitions to enjoy together with many reality shows that are really, really good too.

How very true.

[cruise4]

Tell me which ones of you people calling for non compliance are unilaterally doing it across the board? In a world where the elite can print any amount of money they wish, how does boycotting shops achieve a result we want? Isn't that the situation they intend to ensure occurs? I think you are all losing sight of who needs to go here... the government and it's support structure which is propped up by Taxes... that's what needs boycotting. But few have the bottle so we are probably lost. Who is spending their cards to the hilt and then going to tell them to stuff it? Who has given up their job? Who has slept on the street? What did they do to tax collectors in the Civil War? Who uses their car every day? Who could use a bike but doesn't? Who destroys speed cameras? Who takes out Surveillance? Who has got rid of their TV?

I'll tell you who...next to nobody!

[adbasque]

Yes +1

Hit them where it hurts, in their pocket. Not with violence like they ve prepared for.

Take all money out of the banks and put in smaller local banks or under mattress. Dont use big corporation petrol stations. Dont buy offending newspapers or watch propaganda TV then they have no choice but to listen. Dont pay TV Licence en masse or Council tax etc. They have no defense for this.

In 1974 Australia Frank Sinatra called the female journalists of the country a bunch of whores. He was given a black ban which means that any member of a trade union couldnt serve him, hotel staff, airports, taxis. He was stuck until he apologised. This is the action that is required vs Government.

No no no banks they are all F** sharks, mattresses, or if you have a safe at home put your money there, and the best thing is to exchange the currency into something solid, who knows the pound is maybe on its way out, the way things are looking, it will be obselete very soon.

[adbasque]

Tell me which ones of you people calling for non compliance are unilaterally doing it across the board? In a world where the elite can print any amount of money they wish, how does boycotting shops achieve a result we want? Isn't that the situation they intend to ensure occurs? I think you are all losing sight of who needs to go here... the government and it's support structure which is propped up by Taxes... that's what needs boycotting. But few have the bottle so we are probably lost. Who is spending their cards to the hilt and then going to tell them to stuff it? Who has given up their job? Who has slept on the street? What did they do to tax collectors in the Civil War? Who uses their car every day? Who could use a bike but doesn't? Who destroys speed cameras? Who takes out Surveillance? Who has got rid of their TV?

I'll tell you who...next to nobody!

Yes, for that to happen, we need one thing, is to be organised, to the latest detail, but if we all start taking our money out of the bank accounts without breaking the law, that is a first step, and we have to synchronise our efforts, we MUST do it all at once, otherwise it won't work.

We will not give banks time to recover, and as far as boycotting shops, no in contrary we need to support the little shops, corner shops, farmers etc.. they are part of the community, we need to boycot big bastards, like Tesco, sainsbury, Asda, Waitrose, Morrison, PC world, Currys, Safeway, Lidl, Aldi, building societies, anything that is owned by the big corporations or influenced by them.

Asda = Wal-mart = monsanto
Sainsbury = monsanto
Tesco = monsanto
Safeway = monsanto
They are all part of the same conspiracy, for the moment we can't boycot the ISP because we need the internet to get the message out and to communicate news to each other.

Even the internet has to change hands at some point in the future, if there's a will there's a way.

First we start by starving the banks, I know they are just the small banks, but if we hit hard the tremors will be felt at the top level too.

But we need a lot of people, really we are talking millions at least, and I promise you, if we start it here, the rest of Europe will follow

French
Greeks
Spanish
Germans
Don't expect the Eastern Europeans to be part of it, because they just came out of the Communism, and they think European Union is the most wonderful thing that ever happened to them.

So we can do it without them for start, and we can start it right here from this forum.
What are you afraid of? or are you just enjoying the moaning?

[adbasque]

OK Guys now that we all agreed, when are you ready to strike?

Our efforts have to be co-ordinated in order to have a strong impact.
enough talking, how about bringing everybody on board as a start, and spread the word, then we coordinate our effort and strike at the same time.

We must give them something they've never seen before, WE DO NOT NEED THEIR STINKING SYSTEM TO LIVE OR EXIST, if there is a credit crunch is a wonderful opportunity to all of us to change this stinking system.

THE TIME IS NOW!!

I personally not going to add to this thread, unless I see some movement, tired of blah blah, I want some serious action, NO TO VIOLENCE all in the head

One last thing, why don't we share our services? so we don't have to depend on them

[cruise4]

"we MUST do it all at once"

No... we must all just do it, and do it now. I don't know about others but I'm two years into this and you STILL want to organise? What have you BEEN doing?

Boycott shops and support the small business... yes. But I was pointing out that is but a drop in the ocean and nowhere near the level of non-co-operation necessary. A mild inconveniance is all that is.

Tell me what YOU are doing now adbasque? I suspect my point will be proved. Make me wrong.

[fnulnu]

Yes, for that to happen, we need one thing, is to be organised, to the latest detail, but if we all start taking our money out of the bank accounts without breaking the law, that is a first step, and we have to synchronise our efforts, we MUST do it all at once, otherwise it won't work.

We will not give banks time to recover, and as far as boycotting shops, no in contrary we need to support the little shops, corner shops, farmers etc.. they are part of the community, we need to boycot big bastards, like Tesco, sainsbury, Asda, Waitrose, Morrison, PC world, Currys, Safeway, Lidl, Aldi, building societies, anything that is owned by the big corporations or influenced by them.

Asda = Wal-mart = monsanto
Sainsbury = monsanto
Tesco = monsanto
Safeway = monsanto
They are all part of the same conspiracy, for the moment we can't boycot the ISP because we need the internet to get the message out and to communicate news to each other.

Even the internet has to change hands at some point in the future, if there's a will there's a way.

First we start by starving the banks, I know they are just the small banks, but if we hit hard the tremors will be felt at the top level too.



Great post & many of us are already doing the above.Growing our own produce and trading skills/bartering also.

However,I think it is possible the few farmers we have left in the U.K. will reach a point where they say "f u" to the supermarkets.The reason I say this is because food prices are likely to skyrocket,but I can't see the supermarkets paying their suppliers any more than usual.

Savvy farmers could be part of seizing back the power,if they committed themselves to selling directly to the domestic population,taking a stand against Monsanto & Codex Alimentarius.
Of course,the government will try to impede us at every step with legislation,so we must all be tenacious in the extreme on this one.
Screw paying taxes,mortgages - the whole nine yards.Utter and absolute non-compliance. < this is the bit that needs the whole country to take part.They cannot evict everyone and repossess every home in the country.
I don't know how to make the entire country grow a spine and stick to their guns,but,for sure,sooner or later they will realise something is badly wrong and look to we who have already established alternate communities to lead the way.

[cruise4]

"Screw paying taxes,mortgages - the whole nine yards. Utter and absolute non-compliance."

YES and if we don't do it how on earth can we expect anyone else to do it.

[adbasque]

"we MUST do it all at once"

No... we must all just do it, and do it now. I don't know about others but I'm two years into this and you STILL want to organise? What have you BEEN doing?

Boycott shops and support the small business... yes. But I was pointing out that is but a drop in the ocean and nowhere near the level of non-co-operation necessary. A mild inconveniance is all that is.

Tell me what YOU are doing now adbasque? I suspect my point will be proved. Make me wrong.

What I am doing ok I'll give you just a glance of what I am doing.

First I litterally cut my credit cards almost 2 years now, no more of this crap, they keep sending me letters, I phoned them and told them If I get another letter through the post I will sue you for spamming and junk mail.

Second I went to visit farms near by, I spoke to people at school where my wife works, I even offered free services to people, if they needed to have their pcs repaired, and screw the big guys.

I did offer to build them the computers and they only pay for the parts I didn't charge them for my time at all.

I leave £10 in my account, but as soon as I quit my job, I will close the damn thing, I mean you can't work unless you have a bank account, you should know that.

I made my brother in law quit the police force, I convinced him, he stopped being a cop for almost a year now, I must admit it was hard but now he can see everything I was telling him for the last 6 years or so.

He on the other hand convinced 3 of his colleagues to quit and they did, the last one to quit was in Sep last year.

If you go to my website I have been doing this for quite sometime.
There are other things I am doing but I am not about to disclose them just yet.

Yes I am afraid, in order for it to have a full impact we need to coordinate our strike.
They need to collapse, can't you see?
if we do it one by one or handful here and handful there they will not feel it at all.
yes we keep doing what we are doing individually, but we also need to seriously unite for the final blow.

when I said why don't we offer our services to each other so we don;t have to depend on these bastards.

[fnulnu]

YES and if we don't do it how on earth can we expect anyone else to do it.

Council Tax avoidance - simple for anyone on Income Support who is automatically exempt,it's worth mentioning,because we get screwed big time through council tax.
Income Tax - become a Freeman-On-The-Land,or trade skills/barter,do cash in hand work.Remove yourself from the system as far as possible.

Withholding mortgage repayments - that has to be a largescale movement,it would be more effective,because the objective is to make it technically infeasible to throw everyone onto the streets.
3 members of the David Icke forums may well have the balls to sit tight,film regular updates for the web to publicise their progress etc,but how many others would follow suit once they saw us?

This is the point where you have to start looking-out for your own family's interests.They need you to be there to provide & protect them.If noone else has the guts to take a stand against the system,do you want to martyr yourself for them and for nothing other than your own private sense of doing the right thing?

[fnulnu]

Yes I am afraid, in order for it to have a full impact we need to coordinate our strike.
They need to collapse, can't you see?
if we do it one by one or handful here and handful there they will not feel it at all.
yes we keep doing what we are doing individually, but we also need to seriously unite for the final blow.

when I said why don't we offer our services to each other so we don;t have to depend on these bastards.

Precisely,and there's safety in numbers.
I'd offer you my services,but I see you do exactly what I do :)

[adbasque]

"Screw paying taxes,mortgages - the whole nine yards. Utter and absolute non-compliance."

YES and if we don't do it how on earth can we expect anyone else to do it.

Excuse me, for the taxes and the mortgages, it's a bit too soon, if we do it seperately, they simply come and take our houses, and our belongings.

No, if you refuse to pay any taxes you will end up in jail, we are not ready for this in my opinion, if you end in jail, what good is it going to do you or us?

You know for the mortgages and taxes believe me once the system collapses, you will not have to worry about the taxes, or
Alternatively, we must be millions across the country, and that is why I said we need to coordinate our efforts.

One alone can't do it, don't you remember that pensioner they F** threw her in jail, 79 year old.
These bastards will not hesitate to kill anyone who plays with their "money"

They know without it they no longer exist, they depend on it more than we do.
Think about it, ok?
what is a currency?
a currency is nothing but "an official" piece of paper that puts trust between us.
You supply me with the service, I give that paper in exchange.
we can certainly make a different kind of currency or even print our own.
some communities in the south west I think, started circulating their local currency.

It is not illegal if the community is happy with it.
So printing our own currency, is the way forward, all shops, farmers, businesses must recognise the currency and accept it, if anyone refuses than they'll be out of the community no one will use them or buy from them etc...

So it can be done!!

[adbasque]

Precisely,and there's safety in numbers.
I'd offer you my services,but I see you do exactly what I do :)

I appreciate it :)
Yes but I am sure there are people out there who can offer their services and also this is the way to gain people's trust, and they'll take you seriously, instead of saying oh he is just a nutcase, paranoid sod

They will believe you, if you are prepared to do things for free to help them, they know that you do care about them and humanity.

Doing a good thing and the right thing is never a task

[runlikehell]

From todays Ministry of propoganda site AKA BBC

Police are preparing to face a "summer of rage" in the UK as people join protests over the economic downturn, says a senior Met Police officer.


They already have done! There just making it public! :rolleyes:


Its going to get hairy lol!

Dont worry people! shavers at the ready!

Us :p

Them :eek:

[fnulnu]

I appreciate it :)
Yes but I am sure there are people out there who can offer their services and also this is the way to gain people's trust, and they'll take you seriously, instead of saying oh he is just a nutcase, paranoid sod

They will believe you, if you are prepared to do things for free to help them, they know that you do care about them and humanity.



Hee hee,we'll have to have a good chat about that someday.I really got to see the ugly,ruthless and exploitative nature of people.

Hey,here's more on U.K Tax.If I understand correctly,you do not need to go the whole Freeman-On-The-Land route.There is no "law" that compells us to pay income tax.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrhApYOWgzM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCdsb4mfkKM&feature=channel

[adbasque]

Hee hee,we'll have to have a good chat about that someday.I really got to see the ugly,ruthless and exploitative nature of people.

Hey,here's more on U.K Tax.If I understand correctly,you do not need to go the whole Freeman-On-The-Land route.There is no "law" that compells us to pay income tax.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrhApYOWgzM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCdsb4mfkKM&feature=channel

I know that there is no law, but for some people the income tax is deducted before you get your money, except for the few who work for themselves they have to pay income tax in arrears, before even the money goes into your bank account the income tax is been removed ;)

[cruise4]

"do you want to martyr yourself for them and for nothing other than your own private sense of doing the right thing?"

Scared, Fear

"Council Tax avoidance - simple for anyone on Income Support who is automatically exempt"

Doesn't count at all. These are doing nothing. In fact the opposite they help them.

"Excuse me, for the taxes and the mortgages, it's a bit too soon, if we do it seperately, they simply come and take our houses, and our belongings."

You haven't actually thought about this have you?

I rest my case. None of you have the balls, you are all talk and nothing will happen and yes, I'm quite content to do what I feel is right and won't dance to their tune, nor do I plan on being a matyr.

What is privately right?

[cruise4]

"I know that there is no law, but for some people the income tax is deducted before you get your money, except for the few who work for themselves they have to pay income tax in arrears, before even the money goes into your bank account the income tax is been removed"

Answer... leave you job unless they change the policy. But you won't, no-one else will either, and consequently they will enslave you further.

None of you are biting the bullet. You'd like to, But only if it's 'comfortable'. Well it isn't. And your inaction will haunt you when this shit goes down. At that point you will realise you lost your chance, same as the Germans did.

[mynameis]

Agent's must have infiltrated for them to get this riled.

[cruise4]

Organic and self sufficient will be rounded up alongside the freemen.

They need NO money at this point. It's not me that needs to think about it.

Bend over or stand up, but don't half bend over... it looks ridiculous..

[fnulnu]

"do you want to martyr yourself for them and for nothing other than your own private sense of doing the right thing?"

Scared, Fear

"Council Tax avoidance - simple for anyone on Income Support who is automatically exempt"

Doesn't count at all. These are doing nothing. In fact the opposite they help them.

"Excuse me, for the taxes and the mortgages, it's a bit too soon, if we do it seperately, they simply come and take our houses, and our belongings."

You haven't actually thought about this have you?

I rest my case. None of you have the balls, you are all talk and nothing will happen and yes, I'm quite content to do what I feel is right and won't dance to their tune, nor do I plan on being a matyr.

What is privately right?

You're talking to the wrong lady if you want to use the word fear.I do not post details of my life on public internet forums,nor would I be goaded into it by a keyboard warrior who throws insults at someone they don't know from adam.

"privately right" - the knowledge within your heart that you do the right thing.That is all any of us has.Unless you believe in somesort of divine figure that sits in judgement of us all.

[adbasque]

"do you want to martyr yourself for them and for nothing other than your own private sense of doing the right thing?"

Scared, Fear

"Council Tax avoidance - simple for anyone on Income Support who is automatically exempt"

Doesn't count at all. These are doing nothing. In fact the opposite they help them.

"Excuse me, for the taxes and the mortgages, it's a bit too soon, if we do it seperately, they simply come and take our houses, and our belongings."

You haven't actually thought about this have you?

I rest my case. None of you have the balls, you are all talk and nothing will happen and yes, I'm quite content to do what I feel is right and won't dance to their tune, nor do I plan on being a matyr.

What is privately right?

We are not here to argue, we are here to find a solution, ok lets take your way of thinking, for a minute.

I refuse to pay them taxes, right?
and then they turn up to my house with police and take everything I have "Own" and drag me to jail, are you going to get me out?
are you going to give my family a roof and feed them while I am in prison?

Look carefully, them with all the power they have, the money and they still do things in stealth step by step, but no you want to get up and take the bull by the horn, you will be a loser only you is going to lose.

Did you stop paying your taxes?
Or are you just talk?
see it's easy to pick on others, we are trying to find a solution for everyone.

you can't fight them on their turf, you must be above them, you sound like an angry person who just want to go out there and kick anybody that's in the way.

I am sorry this is not how it should be done, we must be responsible otherwise you will be playing into their hands.

This is not a game, it's serious and in the process some people might lose their lives, I don't want to be a martyr, I am not planning either.

I want to do something and succeed and do it right.

[cruise4]

I am not trying to insult anyone and in relation to that previous remark the fear and scared element is patently there and you can see it as well as I can. In other walks of life I can cheerfully accept the opposite, but you made that statement.

Privately right.... just right really.

I refuse to pay them taxes, right?
and then they turn up to my house with police and take everything I have "Own" and drag me to jail, are you going to get me out?

How long from start to finish does this process take? How many bureaucrats do they have? How much can these people actually process? How effective is starting and stopping claims, benefits and causing bureaucratic nightmares? How many prison places are there? What are they going to do with mass empty housing/land? Have you considered the effect of rotating squats. If they foreclose and you don't go, what happens? Can they cut off your water supply.

Have you considered any of this?

"Look carefully, them with all the power they have, the money and they still do things in stealth step by step, but no you want to get up and take the bull by the horn, you will be a loser only you is going to lose."

We are all going to lose and the speed of what they are doing is increasing rapidly. Time is short and that is but one flaw in your 'organisational' approach.

"Did you stop paying your taxes?"

Yes. I have certain reasons for continuing to pay the odd thing but that's tactical.

"you can't fight them on their turf, you must be above them, you sound like an angry person who just want to go out there and kick anybody that's in the way.

I am sorry this is not how it should be done, we must be responsible otherwise you will be playing into their hands.

This is not a game, it's serious and in the process some people might lose their lives, I don't want to be a martyr, I am not planning either."

above them... I've got to get a ladder have I? Not paying rhetoric, suddenly means kick people??? Of course it's not how it should be done. But there is every chance it's the way it WILL have to be done.

And you are right, it's not a game...

That's why I'm trying to get you to see what needs doing in reality not through rose tinted glasses. I'm not angry but you're like fluffy bunnies. Stand up, make your own decisions on what is right and wrong and live it.

You haven't really decided the core issue. That's what I'm attempting to get you to consider.

[adbasque]

You're talking to the wrong lady if you want to use the word fear.I do not post details of my life on public internet forums,nor would I be goaded into it by a keyboard warrior who throws insults at someone they don't know from adam.

"privately right" - the knowledge within your heart that you do the right thing.That is all any of us has.Unless you believe in somesort of divine figure that sits in judgement of us all.

That's exactly what I said it has nothing to do with fear or being scared, and he sounds angry, frustrated, but I am sure most people here are unhappy and angry, frustrated and so on, but we have to do things the right way.

If we can avoid problems why attract troubles?
We must fight back yes, but the smart way.

The greater the number the better.
I hope he can understand what we are trying to do here.
yes we must act I agree, but we can't suddenly stop everything, unless millions and millions of people decide to do it at the same time, then they can't arrest millions of people, or repossess their homes, belongings

:)
We need to be patient, rmember how many protests came and went did it ever change anything?
of course not, they ended up in riots, that was exactly what they want, so they can deploy and unleash their dogs on us.

They want people to go out and start smashing things and get arrested and the next day as if nothing happened.
No there are better ways, it took them centuries to put us where we are now, and he wants to undo it in few weeks or months.

It will take time

[cruise4]

In no way have I suggested riots or protests. Stop putting your own interpretations on my words. If you had seen how many people post about organising stuff as you are saying here and nothing worth writing home about ever happens... you might be somewhat frustrated as well.

I'm DOING it, it can be done and I haven't got any organisation behind me except my own. You COULD do it to and all we'll see is attempts at organisation.

But have a good time organising gangs. I used to enjoy it as a kid too.

Do you know how many British troops there are? Or Police? Or how easy it would be to take the lot down tomorrow? Every day that goes by they strengthen. It won't take time. It will take action. Action now can be peaceful. Soon that option will be gone. I guess you don't see the train, just empty tracks.

"it took them centuries to put us where we are now, and he wants to undo it in few weeks or months."
"We need to be patient"

I think thousands of years is patience enough... don't you?



Anyway I'll leave you to carry on and don't think I didn't notice that you are doing something. Which is more than most.

[fnulnu]

Do you know how many British troops there are? Or Police? Or how easy it would be to take the lot down tomorrow?

O.K. you got me.I haven't taken down the police and military yet.I'm all ears,what's the plan? I'm not being sarcastic.If you reckon 3 forum readers can do that I'd like to hear how.

[fnulnu]

Also obsolete Bank buildings would make perfect apartments for homeless people.
Or could be converted to a all needed Hospital!

Yeah,precisely what I was thinking about all the empty retail outlets in my town.
It wont be long before this place is a ghost town.Boarded-up premises,easy enough for homeless to take up occupation.The place will be deserted,noone is going to notice or give two hoots even if they do.

[cruise4]

"If you reckon 3 forum readers can do that I'd like to hear how."

I don't. But last time I looked, recent protests comprised a lot more than 3 people. I also wasn't clear... if the majority of the people wished to take out the army and Police it would be an easy task due to overwhelming numbers. A confrontation with the army is also NOT the only way to make them irrelevant. Nor does the entire army lie stationed in the City of London.

You can see a tally of figures here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Army#Statistics

Now remove those on active duty abroad, injured, in training, cooks, logistics etc. and you'll start to see it isn't that many. Does that mean it wouldn't be problematical? No, of course not.

The point I was making is if you see yourselves fighting something, in any way, shape or form shouldn't you have looked at stats such as this?

Fighting the army is not part of my plans because I believe the majority of the British army will side with the people. The police are a different ballgame completely.

Now having said all that, we were talking about peaceful non-compliance and what most people are seeing as non compliance is almost completely ineffectual because they want everything to come out alright with next to no real sacrifice. I see it everywhere. I am almost certain that is not going to happen. I can see whats coming and I'll take action now, not in some fictitous future organisation where everyone feels safe and secure because others are now in the way. You are not going to get millions. It's up to us. At the moment I'm bothering but the longer this all goes on I'm starting to realise it's all a waste of time and effort. People deserve what is coming. It's the only thing that will wake everyone up, really up. In short... get serious!

Just saw a good line by measle weasel...

"its really looking like the public is going to come up a day late and a dollar short"

[fnulnu]

"If you reckon 3 forum readers can do that I'd like to hear how."

I don't. But last time I looked, recent protests comprised a lot more than 3 people. I also wasn't clear... if the majority of the people wished to take out the army and Police it would be an easy task due to overwhelming numbers. A confrontation with the army is also NOT the only way to make them irrelevant.



Oh,I see now.I apologise for my misunderstanding and confusion.Earlier,you were reprimanding adbasque for trying to swell numbers for a united action.
I take it we have your blessing now to "form a gang" (like kids) for a protest?

Can't you see that this is what we've been saying all along? That a groundswell in numbers would really make things happen?

Has the penny dropped yet that we are here because we already do everything possible on our own,but we realise that true and lasting change can only be achieved by a large group of people acting in targeted unison?

[fnulnu]

You can see a tally of figures here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Army#Statistics

The point I was making is if you see yourselves fighting something, in any way, shape or form shouldn't you have looked at stats such as this?



Not really.I have always been about non-cooperation,withholding consent,non compliance and twisting the system in upon itself.

[cruise4]

Oh,I see now.I apologise for my misunderstanding and confusion.Earlier,you were reprimanding adbasque for trying to swell numbers for a united action.

No I was not. I was pointing out you swell numbers by adding to, not talking about.

I take it we have your blessing now to "form a gang" (like kids) for a protest?

You will find you are wasting your time. Protests are a waste of time. Go for your life. You'll achieve nothing.

Can't you see that this is what we've been saying all along? That a groundswell in numbers would really make things happen?

Yes, of course. I'm all for it. But dream on. Can you not see I'm saying we haven't got the time, most haven't got a clue, most won't care anyway and talking organisation is all that ever happens? So something effective needs doing. 3% to 5% is the figure for most revolutions if I remember correctly. Be one of the them, and be one now. Try the 'organisation' approach, you will not get millions. You'll be lucky if you get 5. Your approach is wrong and won't work.

Is the economic system a slave system utilising counterfeiting (fractional reserve banking etc.), and can be summed up as an extortion racket with mob enforcers who utilise bureaucrats to collect from those willingly paying for their own enslavement, foreign and domestic murders and all the other horrors we know about? I think it is, consequently it's immoral to keep paying these bastards and so I won't do it. Others can keep doing it if they like. But don't let's pretend they aren't currently helping the process along if they continue to pay these scum taxes or work for them or take benefits from them.

The decision is a personal one to be made on this basis, I think. Not on how many are there, will I be singled out, what about me, can I wriggle through it, how do I save my goods, my job etc. Do any of these reasons excuse the results to you? Making excuses is how we got here.

And whilst there's 3 of us here talking about this, in general I'm not directing everything personally but at the approach. Many others will read this even if they don't post.

"Not really.I have always been about non-cooperation,withholding consent,non compliance and twisting the system in upon itself. "

That's just missing the point again. You've grabbed something directed at adbasque and twisted the meaning.

[fnulnu]

[COLOR="Teal"]Yes, of course. I'm all for it. But dream on. Can you not see I'm saying we haven't got the time, most haven't got a clue, most won't care anyway and talking organisation is all that ever happens? So something effective needs doing. 3% to 5% is the figure for most revolutions if I remember correctly. Be one of the them, and be one now. Try the 'organisation' approach, you will not get millions. You'll be lucky if you get 5. Your approach is wrong and won't work.


Well,I'm glad you've informed me my approach wont work,since I haven't written one word on what I do :)

Lucky I was here,interacting via web forum software for you to be able to inform me of that,eh?

Good luck with following what is written on your heart.Take care & cheers for now.

[fnulnu]

"Not really.I have always been about non-cooperation,withholding consent,non compliance and twisting the system in upon itself. "

That's just missing the point again. You've grabbed something directed at adbasque and twisted the meaning.

My apologies - use quotes,then I would have realised I was not supposed to comment.There was no way of telling who you were directing that at.

[cruise4]

Others can be the judge. You got involved and I think my comments stand the test of your sarcasm :D

[runlikehell]

"
"Council Tax avoidance - simple for anyone on Income Support who is automatically exempt"

Doesn't count at all. These are doing nothing. In fact the opposite they help them.


Sorry cruise, Do you mean "income support" social security benifits?
People on income support (social security) benifits pay council tax.

My friend just got a letter few days ago, saying she's in "council tax" arrears, and theyre taking, so much off her benifits each week.

[cruise4]

I'm not entirely sure what you are asking runlikehell...

I was responding to a post a few pages back about how people on benefit are exempt. They usually are via Council Tax benefit. However if they have periods where they weren't claiming, for whatever reason, CT can build up as normal and when they re-claim the arrears built up can then be taken away again via small deductions from their benefit, until paid off. Crazy really :D

"Doesn't count at all. These are doing nothing. In fact the opposite they help them."

I said this because claiming council tax benefit doesn't equate with not paying it if required to out of one's own pocket.

If I haven't answered your question please ask again :)

It just occurred to me you might mean the difference between 'Job Seekers' allowance versus 'Income support'. One has some relationship to previous wages doesn't it? If so that might have different rules regarding claiming CT benefit but I'm afraid I don't know. Can't keep up with all their name changing.

[runlikehell]

I'm not entirely sure what you are asking runlikehell...

I was responding to a post a few pages back about how people on benefit are exempt. They usually are via Council Tax benefit. However if they have periods where they weren't claiming, for whatever reason, CT can build up as normal and when they re-claim the arrears built up can then be taken away again via small deductions from their benefit, until paid off. Crazy really :D

"Doesn't count at all. These are doing nothing. In fact the opposite they help them."

I said this because claiming council tax benefit doesn't equate with not paying it if required to out of one's own pocket.

If I haven't answered your question please ask again :)

It just occurred to me you might mean the difference between 'Job Seekers' allowance versus 'Income support'. One has some relationship to previous wages doesn't it? If so that might have different rules regarding claiming CT benefit but I'm afraid I don't know. Can't keep up with all their name changing.

This get's simply more confusing

I thought you were saying that the only way of being exempt from paying council tax, is by being in recept of Income Support benifits.

As fas as i know nobody is exempt from paying CT. Even people on Income support. They do get a reduced rate (Percentage worked out from 100%)

(for example: IF CT for one year is 500 pounds. someone on benifits may get 80% of that paid for them, but do have to pay the, other 20% from the giro they get, (from their own pocket)

CT still is (An ever ticking meter) so if they had to pay 500 pounds a year (but only paid 300 pounds) that would mean they have to pay 200 pounds + 500 for the next year, and so on, and so on. it would be added to the next year.

So basicly people on benifits are always in debt, (How much, or little CT they pay every year depnds on the indeviduals claim, benifits, ect) But like you said, if a person has gaps between claims, or thought F**** im not paying council tax, they eventuly catch up with you and the longer you leave it the bigger the bill is.

Just one more thing, if your in C arears, and need a home, they can refuse to rehouse you till, you either

1). Make an agreement to pay so much of the arears back each week or month

2). Pay the owed amount in full

[fnulnu]

This get's simply more confusing

I thought you were saying that the only way of being exempt from paying council tax, is by being in recept of Income Support benifits.


No,I said that (I did not say the only way of being exempt from paying council tax is by being on income support at all though.No idea where that idea came from),not cruise4.It's confusing because people weren't using the "quote" button :)

I do not pay council tax at all.I am in receipt of income support,and that is the component I thought made people exempt,as I was informed that it was.

Now,I understand from your post that the 100% reduction was due to an assessment.Now I try to remember the process,I would say you're correct.

Anyway,I wasn't intending to get into a debate about the benefits system.My thinking behind mentioning it was more of a subtle way to say "ffs,not everyone is in the same situation.Some people don't have mortgages.Some people do not pay council tax etc".

I was admittedly feeling frustrated that night,and not inclined to explain any of the points I was trying to make.Who doesn't get days like that,eh? :)

[adbasque]

Hi everyone,

Let's just hope we do something in time, before it's too late.

[fnulnu]

Hi everyone,

Let's just hope we do something in time, before it's too late.

Hello,adbasque :)

I was quite amazed to hear a lady in the post office really speaking honestly about the decline of life here and the encroaching big brother state etc.

I use the word "amazed" because this lady is very conventional and not the type of person you'd think would come out and say the things she was saying.
This is revelatory for me,because for years,I have been trying to get the locals involved with various causes...I was beaten in the end by the fact they did not seem to care about anything beyond the inside of their own four walls.

So,I more or less withdrew from society,and pursued projects alone,as it was on my heart,not any of theirs,obviously...

Things are really changing now! There is a shift in attitudes.

This has had the knock-on effect of spurning me into being more proactive where other people are concerned.I have found that I can speak out loud to them at last.

Hope all is well with you :)

[runlikehell]

No,I said that (I did not say the only way of being exempt from paying council tax is by being on income support at all though.No idea where that idea came from),not cruise4.It's confusing because people weren't using the "quote" button :)

I do not pay council tax at all.I am in receipt of income support,and that is the component I thought made people exempt,as I was informed that it was.

Now,I understand from your post that the 100% reduction was due to an assessment.Now I try to remember the process,I would say you're correct.

Anyway,I wasn't intending to get into a debate about the benefits system.My thinking behind mentioning it was more of a subtle way to say "ffs,not everyone is in the same situation.Some people don't have mortgages.Some people do not pay council tax etc".

I was admittedly feeling frustrated that night,and not inclined to explain any of the points I was trying to make.Who doesn't get days like that,eh? :)

SORRY Cruise!, (In Advance) And Finly, My misunderstanding.



From todays Ministry of propoganda site AKA BBC

Police are preparing to face a "summer of rage" in the UK as people join protests over the economic downturn, says a senior Met Police officer.

"Known activists" were likely to foment unrest, with the recession creating more "footsoldiers" to join them, Supt David Hartshorn told the Guardian.

http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7905172.stm

Back on track!

They will have the PCO's (Plastic Cop operatives) with them, to make they're numbers look bigger!

[adbasque]

Hello,adbasque :)

I was quite amazed to hear a lady in the post office really speaking honestly about the decline of life here and the encroaching big brother state etc.

I use the word "amazed" because this lady is very conventional and not the type of person you'd think would come out and say the things she was saying.
This is revelatory for me,because for years,I have been trying to get the locals involved with various causes...I was beaten in the end by the fact they did not seem to care about anything beyond the inside of their own four walls.

So,I more or less withdrew from society,and pursued projects alone,as it was on my heart,not any of theirs,obviously...

Things are really changing now! There is a shift in attitudes.

This has had the knock-on effect of spurning me into being more proactive where other people are concerned.I have found that I can speak out loud to them at last.

Hope all is well with you :)

I totally agree with you, since I was a teenager back in the mid 80s, I have been trying with people around me, and the people of my age forget it, they were only interested in drinking, girls music "walkmans" back then lol

Yes I agree a lot people are starting to "notice" the change in their lives, it finally hit home ;), they had no choice but to wake up.

And also there's a difference between being aware and being aware and do something about it.

Yes I would like to be more optimistic and hope, I use the word "hope" because it's beyond my own control, it depends on a lot of people.

[killmicrosoft]

Why would they fear as most of them will be out of a job

[grachtengordel]

As fas as i know nobody is exempt from paying CT. Even people on Income support. They do get a reduced rate (Percentage worked out from 100%)

people get what is called 'council tax benefit', which is not a reduced rate , it is a 'rebate'. you are still 'charged' the full amount but get a percentage 'rebated', usually before the 'tax' is due. someone on 'jobseekers allowance' will 'qualify' for 'council tax benefit' equal to 100% of the council tax bill.

CT still is (An ever ticking meter) so if they had to pay 500 pounds a year (but only paid 300 pounds) that would mean they have to pay 200 pounds + 500 for the next year, and so on, and so on. it would be added to the next year.

the overwhelming majority of people on 'benefits' get 100% 'council tax benefit' so have to pay absolutely nothing

So basicly people on benifits are always in debt, (How much, or little CT they pay every year depnds on the indeviduals claim, benifits, ect)

effectively we pay nothing and nothing is 'carried over' so there is no 'debt'.

But like you said, if a person has gaps between claims, or thought F**** im not paying council tax, they eventuly catch up with you and the longer you leave it the bigger the bill is.

even if councils cock up the benefit which they do all the time, or claim someone is liable for another person who was on a shared tenancy, (and they do this a lot), they are still very unlikely to 'catch up' with you unless you claim benefit from the same council again. if renting, you don't need to give the council your address. one can use a postal address for council aware business or just make fake ones up for piddly things like library cards.

loads of councils claim I owe them but they will never find me, i just sign on in another area, if i want to live in those counties, I just don't sign on. the local councils DO NOT talk to eachother about this stuff.

Just one more thing, if your in C arears, and need a home, they can refuse to rehouse you

big deal! so move to another county council, an outlaw is an outlaw

[grachtengordel]

Tell me which ones of you people calling for non compliance are unilaterally doing it across the board? In a world where the elite can print any amount of money they wish, how does boycotting shops achieve a result we want? Isn't that the situation they intend to ensure occurs? I think you are all losing sight of who needs to go here... the government and it's support structure which is propped up by Taxes... that's what needs boycotting. But few have the bottle so we are probably lost. Who is spending their cards to the hilt and then going to tell them to stuff it? Who has given up their job? Who has slept on the street? What did they do to tax collectors in the Civil War? Who uses their car every day? Who could use a bike but doesn't? Who destroys speed cameras? Who takes out Surveillance? Who has got rid of their TV?

I'll tell you who...next to nobody!

his name is robert paulson his name is robert paulson his name is robert paulson his name is robert paulson his name is robert paulson his name is robert paulson his name is robert paulson his name is robert paulson his name is robert paulson his name is robert paulson his name is robert paulson his name is robert paulson his name is robert paulson his name is robert paulson his name is robert paulson his name is robert paulson his name is robert paulson his name is robert paulson his name is robert paulson his name is robert paulson his name is robert paulson his name is robert paulson

[runlikehell]

Thought this had been cleard up!

people get what is called 'council tax benefit', which is not a reduced rate , it is a 'rebate'. you are still 'charged' the full amount but get a percentage 'rebated', usually before the 'tax' is due. someone on 'jobseekers allowance' will 'qualify' for 'council tax benefit' equal to 100% of the council tax bill.

If you took the time to read my previous posts, you would have known, ive established that "Council Tax Benifit"

Rebate, reduced rate, it dosent matter what words you use it's the same.


the overwhelming majority of people on 'benefits' get 100% 'council tax benefit' so have to pay absolutely nothing

Think i had already established there are those who dont get 100%, i Suppose that depends on what country you live in, and what part, and your entitlements


effectively we pay nothing and nothing is 'carried over' so there is no 'debt'.

Who is this WE you speak of? you and a few friends?, a movent of people?, anyone who is reciving benifits?

Only if your in recept of 100% benifits, there are Some who do pay as ive already said depends on your indevidual circumstances and the benifits
you recive



they are still very unlikely to 'catch up' with you unless you claim benefit from the same council again.

;)

if renting, you don't need to give the council your address. one can use a postal address for council aware business or just make fake ones up for piddly things like library cards.

How many people do you know are making fake library cards and things?



loads of councils claim I owe them but they will never find me, i just sign on in another area, if i want to live in those counties, I just don't sign on. the local councils DO NOT talk to eachother about this stuff.

:rolleyes:



big deal! so move to another county council, an outlaw is an outlaw

Yeh like everyones going to do that!

See your outlaw, comment is that a personal refrence to your self or just a quote in general? outlaw? as in jesse james? Robbing banks, trains, ect? LOL


YOUR Basicly just screwing the system! Theres nothing outlawish about it!


Just one problem with the moving to another country the majority of people on the dole have never been abroad, dont have a passport, and wouldent put the money they get to getting one!

[fnulnu]

There you go...this thread is like an excursion into why "the people" fail on fundamental levels.Far too concerned with apportioning blame,criticising others,making assumptions,thinking your own way is more worthy that that of others,trying to diminish one another...

I could go on,but what would be the point?

Good luck all.

[fnulnu]

And also there's a difference between being aware and being aware and do something about it.

Yes I would like to be more optimistic and hope, I use the word "hope" because it's beyond my own control, it depends on a lot of people.

Most people are probably tying themselves up in knots trying to define what the singular "something" that can put a stop to all this is.They look at it,see its multi-faceted layers and it all seems insurmountable.

You bind yourself into inactivity inside your own mind.Or you go it alone and do what you can,tangibly,to make someone,somewhere's life a little better.Anyway,it's not my intention to cause the thread to go round in circles,so apologies.

[grachtengordel]

If you took the time to read my previous posts, you would have known, ive established that "Council Tax Benifit"

"established that 'Council Tax Benifit'" what? the sentence does not make sense. do you mean you have established that the 'benefit in question is ' council tax benefit[/I']? or that [I]'council tax benefit is pretty sweet'

Rebate, reduced rate, it dosent matter what words you use it's the same.

actually the "words you use" have different meanings or 'EMPHASIS' so it rather DOES matter which "words you use"

Who is this WE you speak of? you and a few friends?, a movent of people?, anyone who is reciving benifits?

who do you think? it's number C , the "reciving benifits" one innit?

how many people do you know are making fake library cards and things?

i mean a FAKE NAME AND FAKE ADDRESS! are you claiming that you really thought i meant to FORGE an actual physical card? "and things"?
have you never made up a false address? what do you do when you buy a TV or PC and want to avoid paying the bbc £150 per year?
do you actually use your real name and postcode and date of birth when setting up an email account?

Only if your in recept of 100% benifits, there are Some who do pay as ive already said depends on your indevidual circumstances and the benifitsm you recive

what IS "100% benifits"?

YOUR Basicly just screwing the system!

she was asking for it, she begged me to do it, again and again, she is insatiable and anyway she screwed me first and my ancestors, so I am honouring them by screwing the system back, several times

Theres nothing outlawish about it!

I used the word in the broadest literal sense, not the 'comic book'/hollywood interpretation that you subscribe to. look it up, its just a word and its an accurate term to use when referring to one who does not consent to a 'law' or 'decree'. YOU sir are the one who applied that moniker to me and loaded it with emotive implied meanings

big deal! so move to another county council

Just one problem with the moving to another country the majority of people on the dole have never been abroad

let me stop you there before you embarrass yourself, oops, too late

someone posted something earlier that was so relevant..... aah here it is

If you took the time to read my previous posts, you would have known

now that really IS ironic

the majority of people on the dole have never been abroad, dont have a passport,

how would you know that occifer?

[runlikehell]

YOUR Basicly just screwing the system!



she was asking for it, she begged me to do it, again and again, she is insatiable and anyway she screwed me first and my ancestors, so I am honouring them by screwing the system back, several times

Ohhhhhhh! So it's personal for you and the system :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:



have you never made up a false address? what do you do when you buy a TV or PC and want to avoid paying the bbc £150 per year?
do you actually use your real name and postcode and date of birth when setting up an email account?

Never had any reason to make a false address, never bought a Tv or Pc, so don't have to bother avoiding the BBC £150 per year, Yes i actually do use my real name and postcode and date of birth when setting up an email account?

Unlike you i have nothing to hide or run away from.


let me stop you there before you embarrass yourself, oops, too late now that really IS ironic

No, allow me please, oops, too late!


actually the "words you use" have different meanings or 'EMPHASIS' so it rather DOES matter which "words you use"
how would you know that occifer?

Allow me to correct you, dont you mean officer :rolleyes:

who do you think? it's number C , the "reciving benifits" one innit?

Mmmmmm "Isn't it" Or could have had "aint it" would have been, more appropriate, dont you think?

(You may still be able to edit you post) But Cheer's Anyway!

[debs67gb]

damn should i get the st georges flags out then??? lol