Reasons why islam is not a religion of peace

[picha]

1
12,000+ deadly terror attacks committed explicitly in the name of Islam in just the last seven years.(Other religions combined for perhaps a dozen or so).

#2
Muhammad, the prophet of Islam, had people killed for insulting him or criticizing his religion. This included women. Muslims are told to emulate the example of Muhammad.

#3
Muhammad said in many places that he has been "ordered by Allah to fight men until they testify that there is no god but Allah and that Muhammad is his messenger." In the last nine years of his life, he ordered no less than 65 military campaigns to do exactly that.

Muhammad inspired his men to war with the basest of motives, using captured loot, sex and a gluttonous paradise as incentives. He beheaded captives, enslaved children and raped women captured in battle. Again, Muslims are told to emulate the example of Muhammad.

#4
After Muhammad died, the people who lived with him, and knew his religion best, immediately fell into war with each other.

Muhammad's favorite daughter, Fatima, and her husband, Ali (the second convert to Islam, who was raised like a son to Muhammad) fought a war against an army raised by Aisha, Muhammad's favorite wife - and one whom he had said was the "perfect woman."

Not only was her husband, Ali, eventually murdered, but Fatima (who survived the early years at Mecca safe and sound) died of stress from the persecution of fellow Muslims only three months after her father died.

Three of the first four Muslim rulers (caliphs) were murdered. All of them were among Muhammad's closest companions. The third caliph was killed by the son of the first. The fourth caliph was killed by the fifth, who subsequently poisoned one of Muhammad's two favorite grandsons. Muhammad's other grandson was later beheaded by the sixth caliph.

Even these high profile killings barely do justice to the astonishing level of violence taking place at the time, in which tens of thousands of believers were slaughtered by companions and their children in the infighting and power struggles. Within 50 short years of Muhammad's death, even the Kaaba, which had stood for centuries under pagan religion, lay in ruins from internal Muslim war.

And that's just the fate of those within the house of Islam!

#5
Muhammad directed Muslims to wage war on other religions and bring them under submission to Islam. Within the first few decades following his death, his Arabian companions invaded and conquered Christian, Jewish, Hindu, Buddhist and Zoroastrian lands

#6
Muslims continued their Jihad against other religions for 1400 years, checked only by the ability of non-Muslims to defend themselves. To this day, not a week goes by that Islamic fundamentalists do not attempt to kill Christians, Jews, Hindus and Buddhists explicitly in the name of Allah.

None of these other religions are at war with each other.

#7
Islam is the only religion that has to retain its membership by threatening to kill anyone who leaves. This is according to the example set by Muhammad.

#8
Islam teaches that non-Muslims are less than fully human. Muhammad said that Muslims can be put to death for murder, but that a Muslim could never be put to death for killing a non-Muslim.

#9
The Qur'an never once speaks of Allah's love for non-Muslims, but it speaks of Allah's cruelty toward and hatred of non-Muslims more than 500 times.

[zarah]

There's a mistake in the title of the thread. It should be called "Reasons why I THINK Islam is not a religion of peace."

Do you really not have anything better to do on a Sunday night than post rambling, divisive rhetoric, which seems to have no purpose but to invoke yet another thread in which we all spend copious amounts of time either writing in defense of your opinion or against it.

[picha]

There's a mistake in the title of the thread. It should be called "Reasons why I THINK Islam is not a religion of peace."

Do you really not have anything better to do on a Sunday night than post rambling, divisive rhetoric, which seems to have no purpose but to invoke yet another thread in which we all spend copious amounts of time either writing in defense of your opinion or against it.


Thanks for your reply, but at no point did you attempt to directly refute any of the points raised.
I think its clear as day that mohammed really wasnt a very nice bloke. He may well have had something wrong with him so it may not be his fault he was like this, but whichever way you look at it he really wasnt a nice guy.

[zarah]

Thanks for your reply, but at no point did you attempt to directly refute any of the points raised.
I think its clear as day that mohammed really wasnt a very nice bloke. He may well have had something wrong with him so it may not be his fault he was like this, but whichever way you look at it he really wasnt a nice guy.

Is there a caveat that says I have to refute anything you've written in order to post?

You don't like Islam...and? It doesn't affect my life one bit. You think Mohammed wasn't a 'nice bloke'...so? Again, nothing important to me alters because you have nothing better to do that try and rile people up. Again.

[kappy0405]

12,000+ deadly terror attacks committed explicitly in the name of Islam in just the last seven years.(Other religions combined for perhaps a dozen or so).

umm, no... Everything in the middle east right now is about 'religion'. It is a 'Christian/Jewish vs. Islam' battle for the Holy Land.. 12,000 have died on the hands of Islam, but nearly a million civilians have died in Iraq in the name of the Western 'Christian/Jewish' imperialistic agendas.. Granted, all these cliques are head by Satanists at the top level. Blaming a single religion is nonsense anyway.

The rest of your points are equally nonsense.. For one, Islam teaches only to use 'Jihad' in self-defense.. While the Talmud/Bible condones bigotry and killing throughout, even moreso than the Koran. How you think points 2-9 are limited to Islam is beyond me.

Here are some quotes from the Jewish Talmud, as Icke puts it...

"Just the Jews are humans, the non-Jews are no humans, but cattle"

"The non-Jews have been created to serve the Jews as slaves"

"Sexual intercourse with non-Jews is like sexual intercourse with animals"

"The non-Jews have to be avoided even more than sick pigs"

"The birth rate of non-Jews has to be suppressed massively"

"as you replace lost cows and donkeys, so you shall replace non-Jews"


Sorry, but you entire OP is entirely invalid.

[scooby85]

what is it with u? why are u so obsessed with islam?? havnt u got anything better to do with ur time then to come out with a few bullshit info u picked up from ihatemuslims.com as per usual? remember that fly hadith u caned then i showed u recent scientific studies to prove the prophets words were correct, iv made u look stupid on more than one occasion because u mostly copy and paste anti islamic stuff which u didnt research beforehand and just assumed it must be true.. and im sure even the non muslims on here agree that u are embarassing urself, well except ur goonies like fm7, seekthetruth and a couple others

If islam was a violent religion then why is it that iv never in my life seen or heard of a (real) muslim living in england (a few million) kill non muslims for no apparent reason? Theres millions of jews (muslims worst enemy) living in iran (one of the biggest islamic states) that are looked after by the iranian govt and the people treat them well. there are over a BILLION muslims worldwide, how many fit the descriptions u made above? about less than 0.5% (probably same as any other sect judaism/christianity/hinduism/atheists etc) u seem to have the image in ur head that a muslim is someone like osama bin laden, stop reading the sun ffs its rotting ur brain (if u can call it a brain)

Once in a place called taif in saudi, there was a clan who beat up the prophet pretty badly and he was bleeding from the head, when two angels asked him if he wanted god to demolish the whole city of taif with an earthquake, he replied no as there maybe some here that can be guided.

another time a jewish women who would always look to harm the prophet as he walked past her house to work in a village, she would place broken glass, thorns and other objects hoping the prophet would hurt himself, which he would remove, but one day he noticed that the path was empty so he enquired about what happend to the lady, he found out she was severly ill and went to see her, upon seeing his compassion for the jewish women, the women converted there and then, she later died.

And if anyone was a real prophet, it would be ur job to guide humanity and if a group wasnt letting u get on with ur job u would kill them else truth would never prosper, how can u let falsehood spread when its ur job to stop it? but in islam before he did that he gave them a chance to convert, if not then pay tax for being a non muslim then finally get killed.. now u show me which military leader/army in this whole world would give their enemies TWO chances to LIVE before he kills them?? il tell u how many ZILCH

this shows that prophet muhammad pbuh was a compassionate man, who DIDNT get off on killing people but in some cases he had no choice. ur posts are becoming as credible as gordon browns speeches

[size_of_light]

picha, did you come up with these reasons or are they pasted from another source?

Not knowing (or really caring) much about the foundations of Islam, I'd still like to know where these facts are derived from.

For instance, if they originated on a Christian fundamentalist website I'd automatically assume they were distortions. The slightly hysterical way in which they're written suggest to me that they're the result of one 'religious' syndicate bitterly condemning another because their God has the bigger dick.

A link would be appreciated.

[oiram]

#8
Islam teaches that non-Muslims are less than fully human. Muhammad said that Muslims can be put to death for murder, but that a Muslim could never be put to death for killing a non-Muslim.

Now this part sounds very familiar .... was there not one more Religion or tribe teaching the same basics?
Aren't they related to each other if they teach the same radical inhuman bases?

Something strange here!

Anyway it's not about entire Religions it's individuals doing all this shit mostly high ranking leaders deceiving & manipulating there dumb followers!

[scooby85]

picha, did you come up with these reasons or are they pasted from another source?

Not knowing (or really caring) much about the foundations of Islam, I'd still like to know where these facts are derived from.

For instance, if they originated on a Christian fundamentalist website I'd automatically assume they were distortions. The slightly hysterical way in which they're written suggest to me that they're the result of one 'religious' syndicate bitterly condemning another because their God has the bigger dick.

A link would be appreciated.

if u hadnt noticed almost all of his islamic posts are copy and paste jobs from anti islamic sites.

[picha]

picha, did you come up with these reasons or are they pasted from another source?

Not knowing (or really caring) much about the foundations of Islam, I'd still like to know where these facts are derived from.

For instance, if they originated on a Christian fundamentalist website I'd automatically assume they were distortions. The slightly hysterical way in which they're written suggest to me that they're the result of one 'religious' syndicate bitterly condemning another because their God has the bigger dick.

A link would be appreciated.

Its from here http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/ although I deleted the last reason because it referred to 9/11 and i'm completely aware that the official version of events is complete BS

If youre interested read the myths of mohammed section, all of the info there comes from respected islamic sources. I would like to warn you though that most if not all of it really churns the stomach.

[scooby85]

Its from here http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/ although I deleted the last reason because it referred to 9/11 and i'm completely aware that the official version of events is complete BS

If youre interested read the myths of mohammed section, all of the info there comes from respected islamic sources. I would like to warn you though that most if not all of it really churns the stomach.

looks like that website was made by skinhead bnp members lol i feel sorry for u... get a life man

[dsone]

its all illusion.....fuck it all

America prays for God to destroy our enemies; our enemies pray for God to destroy us... Somebody's going to be disappointed. Somebody's wasting their fucking time. Could it be... everyone?"
-George Carlin

[jayelowell]

http://www.csc-media.com/Signs/Threads/jesus%20thread%20sucks.gif

[size_of_light]

http://www.csc-media.com/Signs/Threads/jesus%20thread%20sucks.gif

Yes, Jesus did say "This thread sucks!" but his words shouldn't be taken literally :rolleyes:

He was speaking in code for the intiated, yet you fundamentalists take everything at face value.

'This' was an acronym for "Tiamat Has Impacted (with) Saturn", when he refers to a 'thread' he's actually talking about the Royal Saturnian ruling bloodline that escaped the cataclysm and took refuge on earth and the word 'sucks' had a very different meaning in Jesus' time; it actually meant 'a clay vessel containing a varied assortment of silks or grains that was commonly played like a bongo drum by drunken Nubian house-slaves on the night before the sixth Sabbath'.

Research people!

[zarah]

Its from here http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/ although I deleted the last reason because it referred to 9/11 and i'm completely aware that the official version of events is complete BS

If youre interested read the myths of mohammed section, all of the info there comes from respected islamic sources. I would like to warn you though that most if not all of it really churns the stomach.

There are so many mistruths and misconceptions as well as misleading rhetoric in that website, simply by posting the link as some kind of authentic source, you're illustrating quite clearly your divisive agenda. Why not post somewhere where you have a willing and captive audience? The Sun Online's comments section or perhaps there's a chatroom where Jeremy Kyle/Jerry Springer guests congregate.

[jayelowell]

Yes, Jesus did say "This thread sucks!" but his words shouldn't be taken literally :rolleyes:

He was speaking in code for the intiated, yet you fundamentalists take everything at face value.

'This' was an acronym for "Tiamat Has Impacted (with) Saturn", when he refers to a 'thread' he's actually talking about the Royal Saturnian ruling bloodline that escaped the cataclysm and took refuge on earth and the word 'sucks' had a very different meaning in Jesus' time; it actually meant 'a clay vessel containing a varied assortment of silks or grains that was commonly played like a bongo drum by drunken Nubian house-slaves on the night before the sixth Sabbath'.

Research people!
http://www.homee.com/pic/thread%20sucks.jpg

[size_of_light]

http://www.homee.com/pic/thread%20sucks.jpg

According to some translations Jesus did prefix the statement 'this thread sucks' with the phrase 'Oh God', but the meaning of those words has been hotly contested by scholars ever since the time of...

[eternal_spirit]

looks like that website was made by skinhead bnp members lol i feel sorry for u... get a life man
Nice try scoobs

Nation of Islam says (white men are devils)
Elijah Muhammad In his book he says that he is a divine messenger who is warning blacks that they had better pledge to Nation of Islam's version of Islam before Allah eliminates whites and non-believers in racial Armageddon.

Whites are viewed as inherently evil for "the whole Caucasian race is a race of devils." While they are usually referred to as "devils," The white race, we find out, "are the people described as 'beast' in the Revelation of the Bible."

We are told that among all whites in the world the whites in America and Germany have been the most vicious to the blacks and so they would be eliminated first in Armageddon. There would be a delay before other European whites would be eliminated.

Throughout the entire book it is proclaimed that there is nothing whites can do to avoid Armageddon because whites were created inherently evil and because Allah doomed whites in the scriptures.

(got a Fatwa out on me scoobs? I have German and English genes)

Alah is a demon Mohammed was a peado, murderer, looter and slave master.


quote: picha
If youre interested read the myths of mohammed section, all of the info there comes from respected islamic sources. I would like to warn you though that most if not all of it really churns the stomach.Funny that because I've used/posted many Islamic sources from muslim's own words texts (holy men Imams included) Yet the brainwashed Muslim's here will even deny it's true.

[scooby85]

Nice try scoobs

Nation of Islam says (white men are devils)
Elijah Muhammad In his book he says that he is a divine messenger who is warning blacks that they had better pledge to Nation of Islam's version of Islam before Allah eliminates whites and non-believers in racial Armageddon.

Whites are viewed as inherently evil for "the whole Caucasian race is a race of devils." While they are usually referred to as "devils," The white race, we find out, "are the people described as 'beast' in the Revelation of the Bible."

We are told that among all whites in the world the whites in America and Germany have been the most vicious to the blacks and so they would be eliminated first in Armageddon. There would be a delay before other European whites would be eliminated.

Throughout the entire book it is proclaimed that there is nothing whites can do to avoid Armageddon because whites were created inherently evil and because Allah doomed whites in the scriptures.
[/SIZE]


wtf has the nation of islam to do with islam?? islam prohibits rascism, nation of islam doesnt.. two different religions, the latter being a fake... get stuffed u uneducated dimwit.

[islamvslizards]

er im not quite sure, where to begin, with dealing with the bullshit splattered all over this thread, other than i know my time and efforts would be wasted on someone who isnt going to listen to reason anyway.

and guys, nation of islam is not a representative of the islamic world. they are their own mini sect who believe much stranger things than white men being devils. look at what they did to malcolm X.

"respected muslim sources" what a joke. islam has mostly been infiltrated just like other religions dont you think the infiltrators might have had a hand in distorting things?

[msmoorad]

if you google almost anything you will find what youre looking for- does not mean its reliable info though.
as for picha's post:
lets see, whatever is there is like almost 100% true but if you play with words u can even make Mother Teresa sound like a whore.
the western media does a good job of it .
if you really want to leanrn about islam, why dont you go to your local mosque and speak to the Imam - hopefully he speaks & understands english properly.
if i tell u you to go to a certain website that would not be as effective as hearing it directly from a person, face to face.
islam is a religion of peace but peace does not mean "turning the other cheek"
we are taught to defend our rights and resist oppression & stand up for the truth.

[arten]

If Islam is a religion of war then it pales into insignificance the war and bloodshed by those loonies who claim to be Christian.
The way I see this is simple, Christendom is all about Sun worship and was set up by Freemasons. Islam is about Moonworship and was set up by the Vatican who are all Anti Christ.
From the Monotheistic Religions only the Jews worship the Unseen God and the Jews who Love the Torah must be happy with their Religious beliefs because they never proselytise and they await the coming of their Messiah.
You would never guess this but I have been called an anti semite by Zionist elsewhere for defending the innocent people in Iraq and Gaza.
All I can say is I am glad I don't belong to any Religion!

[debs67gb]

islam is a religion of peace but peace does not mean "turning the other cheek"
we are taught to defend our rights and resist oppression & stand up for the truth.

your truth or the country yer in truth??? this is what annoys me - you al want exceptions to fit in with what YOU want - im heartily sick of feeling like a stranger in my own country - last year the school didnt have Christmas in case it offended a MINORITY - I expect Easter will be as bad although they still get the hols - I dont see why my child should be made to celebrate Diwali he isnt of that religion in fact he has no religion - I wouldnt force my beliefs on a child in a classroom - if i had known beforehand I would have withdrawn him from school

I do respect everyones beliefs or religion but not when they infringe on those of mine and my children :(

[oddblock]

Why do I get the feeling this thread was created to get people arguing etc..? But I'm sure as usual this thread will get to 1000 posts of people throwing around slander and hate.

Just my feeling about the thread. Not the people in it!

I love you all! :)

[debs67gb]

Why do I get the feeling this thread was created to get people arguing etc..? But I'm sure as usual this thread will get to 1000 posts of people throwing around slander and hate.

Just my feeling about the thread. Not the people in it!

I love you all! :)

I am not a racist nor a hater of people outside my country but I am getting sick and tired of us having to accept rituals and ceremonies that arent ours traditionally and getting rid of our own to fit in so we dont offend anyone :(

I do also take yer point that this will go on and on with a lot of hateful critiscisms :(

[scooby85]

if you google almost anything you will find what youre looking for- does not mean its reliable info though.
as for picha's post:
lets see, whatever is there is like almost 100% true but if you play with words u can even make Mother Teresa sound like a whore.
the western media does a good job of it .
if you really want to leanrn about islam, why dont you go to your local mosque and speak to the Imam - hopefully he speaks & understands english properly.
if i tell u you to go to a certain website that would not be as effective as hearing it directly from a person, face to face.
islam is a religion of peace but peace does not mean "turning the other cheek"
we are taught to defend our rights and resist oppression & stand up for the truth.

or better still why dont u pick up the quran and read what is says for urself? instead of relying on bnp website that nit pick little verses and take it completely out of context i.e if god says kill people, who is he talking about? usually people who are actively trying to destroy islam like the illuminati and the people that follow them and not the general population.

[scooby85]

islam is a religion of peace but peace does not mean "turning the other cheek"
we are taught to defend our rights and resist oppression & stand up for the truth.

your truth or the country yer in truth??? this is what annoys me - you al want exceptions to fit in with what YOU want - im heartily sick of feeling like a stranger in my own country - last year the school didnt have Christmas in case it offended a MINORITY - I expect Easter will be as bad although they still get the hols - I dont see why my child should be made to celebrate Diwali he isnt of that religion in fact he has no religion - I wouldnt force my beliefs on a child in a classroom - if i had known beforehand I would have withdrawn him from school

I do respect everyones beliefs or religion but not when they infringe on those of mine and my children :(

thats not the fault of the muslims thats the faults of your own government.. im a muslim living in a christian land, if u wish to celebrate xmas do so but dont expect me to join in the celebrations, in the same way i wudnt expect u to join in on the eid festivities..

[scooby85]

If Islam is a religion of war then it pales into insignificance the war and bloodshed by those loonies who claim to be Christian.
The way I see this is simple, Christendom is all about Sun worship and was set up by Freemasons. Islam is about Moonworship and was set up by the Vatican who are all Anti Christ.
From the Monotheistic Religions only the Jews worship the Unseen God and the Jews who Love the Torah must be happy with their Religious beliefs because they never proselytise and they await the coming of their Messiah.
You would never guess this but I have been called an anti semite by Zionist elsewhere for defending the innocent people in Iraq and Gaza.
All I can say is I am glad I don't belong to any Religion!

do u have any solid evidence regarding this like christianity has for sun worship? i doubt it... i can bet my last dollar that this rumour was started by christians once their religion was proved to be sun worship..

if it was moon worship the quran would not claim : "And from among His Signs are the night and the day, and the sun and the moon. Do not bow down (prostrate) to the sun nor to the moon, but only bow down (prostrate) to "Allah" Who created them, if you (really) worship Him."
[Holy Quran 41:37]

And before anyone asks the crescent moon and star often seen on mosques and Islamic archecture is actually a symbol of the last rulers of the Muslims called the Ottoman Empire. The Quran answers this question before you asked it. Read this verse:

"They ask you about the new moons. Say: These are signs to mark fixed periods of time for mankind and for the pilgrimage."
[Holy Quran 2:189]

and u will NOT find the bible say that it is NOT sun worship..

[scooby85]

Why do I get the feeling this thread was created to get people arguing etc..? But I'm sure as usual this thread will get to 1000 posts of people throwing around slander and hate.

Just my feeling about the thread. Not the people in it!

I love you all! :)

nah i like threads like this as long as people dont get all childish and abusive.. it gives me a chance to explain islam as alot of people have misconceptions about the religion and to also point out what islam actually says regarding different matters.

[arten]

do u have any solid evidence regarding this like christianity has for sun worship? i doubt it... i can bet my last dollar that this rumour was started by christians once their religion was proved to be sun worship..

if it was moon worship the quran would not claim : "And from among His Signs are the night and the day, and the sun and the moon. Do not bow down (prostrate) to the sun nor to the moon, but only bow down (prostrate) to "Allah" Who created them, if you (really) worship Him."
[Holy Quran 41:37]

And before anyone asks the crescent moon and star often seen on mosques and Islamic archecture is actually a symbol of the last rulers of the Muslims called the Ottoman Empire. The Quran answers this question before you asked it. Read this verse:

"They ask you about the new moons. Say: These are signs to mark fixed periods of time for mankind and for the pilgrimage."
[Holy Quran 2:189]

and u will NOT find the bible say that it is NOT sun worship..

Thomas Paine let the cat out of the bag he said that Freemasonry and Christendom came from the Same Source and is all to do with the Worship of the Sun. I think Acharay S and others have done a good job of showing that Christendom is about Sun Worship. One thing I 100 % sure of is that No Man called Jesus as portrayed by the Bible writers ever lived. Satan has fooled most of the world with this nonsense. No wonder the Jews won't convert en mass they know. As for Islam there is evidence that it was set by those who run the Vatican and again they have got people engaged in paganism. Albert Pike is another who let the cat out of the bag all this was set up to keep people from the truth and so they could divide and rule us.

[islamvslizards]

Thomas Paine let the cat out of the bag he said that Freemasonry and Christendom came from the Same Source and is all to do with the Worship of the Sun. I think Acharay S and others have done a good job of showing that Christendom is about Sun Worship. One thing I 100 % sure of is that No Man called Jesus as portrayed by the Bible writers ever lived. Satan has fooled most of the world with this nonsense. No wonder the Jews won't convert en mass they know. As for Islam there is evidence that it was set by those who run the Vatican and again they have got people engaged in paganism. Albert Pike is another who let the cat out of the bag all this was set up to keep people from the truth and so they could divide and rule us.

id love to see that evidence.

[picha]

er im not quite sure, where to begin, with dealing with the bullshit splattered all over this thread, other than i know my time and efforts would be wasted on someone who isnt going to listen to reason anyway.

and guys, nation of islam is not a representative of the islamic world. they are their own mini sect who believe much stranger things than white men being devils. look at what they did to malcolm X.

"respected muslim sources" what a joke. islam has mostly been infiltrated just like other religions dont you think the infiltrators might have had a hand in distorting things?

So are the koran hadith and sunnah not respected muslim sources then? Because thats where the info came from.

[arten]

id love to see that evidence.

There is evdience posted on this forum get searching!

[islamvslizards]

So are the koran hadith and sunnah not respected muslim sources then? Because thats where the info came from.

the sunnah isnt no. and the quran can be taken out of context

[kappy0405]

There is evdience posted on this forum get searching!

Can you direct us to it then? I cant find any myself. I call bluff. :D

He asked you for evidence referring to your claim on Islam, yet you provided evidence for the farce that is Christianity.. struggling a bit?

[unbornawakened]

All organized religions are misguided, although they all contain some core of truth. Islam is no exception, and no worse than Judaism (and Christianity which accepts the Talmud unquestionably and therefore is corrupted as well). Of the biggest winners in organized religion, I prefer Buddhism, but they are all corrupt.

id love to see that evidence.

[scooby85]

All organized religions are misguided, although they all contain some core of truth. Islam is no exception, and no worse than Judaism (and Christianity which accepts the Talmud unquestionably and therefore is corrupted as well). Of the biggest winners in organized religion, I prefer Buddhism, but they are all corrupt.

how can u say that all organised religions are misguided? when moses was sent down his religion it was the truth (note his religion wasnt called judaism, that was attached after his death) but that got corruted so go sent forth jesus (again it was not called christianity then) that was also corrupted, then came forth muhammad with islam but this time god promised that his words would and could not be corrupted so i havnt found any evidence of the quran being corrupted...

[quysant]

how can u say that all organised religions are misguided? when moses was sent down his religion it was the truth (note his religion wasnt called judaism, that was attached after his death) but that got corruted so go sent forth jesus (again it was not called christianity then) that was also corrupted, then came forth muhammad with islam but this time god promised that his words would and could not be corrupted so i havnt found any evidence of the quran being corrupted...

So, in your view, God who is supposed to be Omniscient and care for His creation "cocks up" both with Judaism and Christianity (Both religions corrupted...billions of people burning in Hell for all eternity) but gets it right with Mohammed and Islam?

Great Logic Scooby !!

[mephibosheth]

how can u say that all organised religions are misguided? when moses was sent down his religion it was the truth (note his religion wasnt called judaism, that was attached after his death) but that got corruted so go sent forth jesus (again it was not called christianity then) that was also corrupted, then came forth muhammad with islam but this time god promised that his words would and could not be corrupted so i havnt found any evidence of the quran being corrupted...

In reality, that's just a story you're telling us and yourself. There's no reason to believe there ever was a 'Moses' or a 'Jesus' in real life--at least not in the form we have traditionally come to recognize and understand. So you're trying to counter the (rather sweeping) proposition that 'all religion is corrupt' by presenting a story that is only valid within the context of a specific religion? That's equivalent to saying, 'well some religion may be corrupt, but not my religion, because it contains a story that says it isnt.'

As to whether 'all religions are corrupt', well, that's not as straightforward as it seems. What do we mean by 'corruption' here? What would be a 'pure' religion? Islam itself is not 'pure' because there are many sects professing their own preferred versions of what Islam means. And, if we are only looking at the existing texts, the Quraan is only 'pure' since 200 years after the supposed time of Mohammed. That's a whole lot longer than, for instance, the existence of the Gospels after the supposed death of Jesus. And, since those are the first documents we have, there is no reason to assume they are a 'corruption'.

But again, if the stories these documents recount are just that--stories--then there is a sense in which the whole enterprise is corrupt, because people are taking it as historical and metaphysical fact, when in reality it's nothing but allegory.

[unbornawakened]

Most religious insitutions are 'corrupt' by definition - and that goes for all the big businesses of religion (Islam, Judaism, Christianity, Hinduism, etc). Why ? Because the people who run these institutions are mostly there for their own benefit, and have little understanding of what the original founder of the religion had in mind (assuming the founder was an enlightened person). They try to package 'truth' (if there was any, in the first place) through rituals, distortions, and interpretations.

There are good individuals among them as well, but very few have true understanding. The existing religious texts from the founder of the religion are also dubious. Perhaps only a small fragment of it represents the true teachings. In any case, such teaching cannot be simply transmitted through words and writings and must be experienced (if valid).

In addition, some of the founders of religions may have been manipulated. For example, Mohammad claimed to have recited (like a modern channel) the 'teachings' of the angel Gabriel. Who knows what the true source was ? Perhaps an extraterrestrial being trying to experiment with or manipulate human society, possibly to spread misinformation. The reason the religious message finds adherents is that the message contains good elements as well, in order to better fool people to think they are going for something 'holy'. But what is important is the disinformation that is added to that.

As to whether 'all religions are corrupt', well, that's not as straightforward as it seems. What do we mean by 'corruption' here? What would be a 'pure' religion?

[arten]

Can you direct us to it then? I cant find any myself. I call bluff. :D

He asked you for evidence referring to your claim on Islam, yet you provided evidence for the farce that is Christianity.. struggling a bit?

Not at all all you have to do or anyone else for that matter is use a search engine and type in Islam, moon worship, Vatican etc and you will have plenty of evidence to shift through. You might struggle to get through all the links though lol

Results 1 - 10 of about 9,370 for Islam moon worship Vatican. (0.32 seconds)

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The Vatican and Islam
... between Islam and the Vatican!! There are many similarities between Islam and the Vatican: ... Satan put his 3rd in command in charge of MOON worship. ...
reformation.org/vatican-and-islam.html - Similar pages -
#
ALLAH, the Moon God
The religion of Islam has as its focus of worship a deity by the name of "Allah .... in this file and also in The Cult of the Moon God The Vatican and Islam ...
www.biblebelievers.org.au/moongod.htm - 16k - Cached - Similar pages -
#
How the Vatican Created Islam - Assata Shakur Speaks - Hands Off ...
question though: did the Vatican have something to do with the Nation of Islam's creation? .... The entire fertile crescent was involved in moon-worship. ...
www.assatashakur.org/forum/contested-zone/17328-how-vatican-created-islam.html - 170k - Cached - Similar pages -
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Islam:pagan origin and Moon god worship
The Bible condemns moon god worship. Islam is repackaged polytheism. Islam is paganism in monotheistic wrapping paper. Islam is veiled neo-polytheism. ...
www.bible.ca/islam/islam-moon-god.htm - 6k - Cached - Similar pages -
#
How the Vatican Created Islam
information that links vatican to creation of islam ..... his followers because they refused to worship the idols in the Kaaba. ... History proves that before Islam came into existence, the Sabeans in Arabia worshiped the moon-god who ...
www.scribd.com/doc/222227/How-the-Vatican-Created-Islam - 295k - Cached - Similar pages -
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RELIGIONS AND CULTURES OF MOON WORSHIP
Moon worship is founded on the belief that the phases of the moon and ..... The religion of Islam has as its focus of worship a deity by the name of "Allah. ...
www.greatdreams.com/moon/moon_worship.htm - 41k - Cached - Similar pages -
#
Islam_a2 Who Is Allah?
2 Mar 2004 ... Al Hussein was a grandson of Islam's prophet Mohammed and is a symbol of martyrdom for Shiites. ... during a meeting with Arab leaders at the Vatican ... Satan put his "prince" in charge of MOON worship. ...
members.toast.net/rjspina/Islam_a2.htm - 18k - Cached - Similar pages -
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Catholicism & Islam: Ties that Bind
Most people are aware of the veneration and even worship of Mary found among ... the dominant pre-Islamic religion was the worship of the moon-god, Allah. .... Finally, Vatican II spells out clearly what Islam and Catholicism regard as ...
www.reachingcatholics.org/cath_islam.html - 20k - Cached - Similar pages -
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Reply To Robert Morey's Moon-God Allah Myth: A Look At The ...
Morey's claim that the moon worship was dominant in Arabia, especially in the south, ...... Morey's book The Islamic Invasion: Confronting The World's ...
www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/Sources/Allah/moongod.html - 203k - Cached - Similar pages -
#
David Icke Website - 'How the Vatican created Islam'
13 Apr 2006 ... How the Vatican created Islam. The astonishing story from an ex-Jesuit .... his followers because they refused to worship the idols in the Kaaba. ... shows Allah sitting on a throne with the crescent moon on his chest. ...
www.davidicke.com/content/view/744/48/ - 46k - Cached - Similar pages -

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=Islam+moon+worship+Vatican&btnG=Google+Search&meta=

[arten]

Allah - the Moon God

The Archeology of The Middle East

The religion of Islam has as its focus of worship a deity by the name of "Allah." The Muslims claim that Allah in pre-Islamic times was the biblical God of the Patriarchs, prophets, and apostles. The issue is thus one of continuity. Was "Allah" the biblical God or a pagan god in Arabia during pre- Islamic times? The Muslim's claim of continuity is essential to their attempt to convert Jews and Christians for if "Allah" is part of the flow of divine revelation in Scripture, then it is the next step in biblical religion. Thus we should all become Muslims. But, on the other hand, if Allah was a pre- Islamic pagan deity, then its core claim is refuted. Religious claims often fall before the results of hard sciences such as archeology. We can endlessly speculate about the past or go and dig it up and see what the evidence reveals. This is the only way to find out the truth concerning the origins of Allah. As we shall see, the hard evidence demonstrates that the god Allah was a pagan deity. In fact, he was the Moon-god who was married to the sun goddess and the stars were his daughters.



The reader must know that Ismael was a Hebrew.

Archaeologists have uncovered temples to the Moon-god throughout the Middle East. From the mountains of Turkey to the banks of the Nile, the most wide-spread religion of the ancient world was the worship of the Moon-god. In the first literate civilization, the Sumerians have left us thousands of clay tablets in which they described their religious beliefs. As demonstrated by Sjoberg and Hall, the ancient Sumerians worshipped a Moon-god who was called many different names. The most popular names were Nanna, Suen and Asimbabbar. His symbol was the crescent moon. Given the amount of artifacts concerning the worship of this Moon-god, it is clear that this was the dominant religion in Sumeria. The cult of the Moon-god was the most popular religion throughout ancient Mesopotamia. The Assyrians, Babylonians, and the Akkadians took the word Suen and transformed it into the word Sin as their favorite name for the Moon-god. As Prof. Potts pointed out, "Sin is a name essentially Sumerian in origin which had been borrowed by the Semites. "

In ancient Syria and Canna, the Moon-god Sin was usually represented by the moon in its crescent phase. At times the full moon was placed inside the crescent moon to emphasize all the phases of the moon. The sun-goddess was the wife of Sin and the stars were their daughters. For example, Istar was a daughter of Sin. Sacrifices to the Moon-god are described in the Pas Shamra texts. In the Ugaritic texts, the Moon-god was sometimes called Kusuh. In Persia, as well as in Egypt, the Moon- god is depicted on wall murals and on the heads of statues. He was the Judge of men and gods. The Old Testament constantly rebuked the worship of the Moon-god (see: Deut. 4:19;17:3; II Kngs. 21:3,5; 23:5; Jer. 8:2; 19:13; Zeph. 1:5, etc.) When Israel fell into idolatry, it was usually the cult of the Moon-god. As a matter of fact, everywhere in the ancient world, the symbol of the crescent moon can be found on seal impressions, steles, pottery, amulets, clay tablets, cylinders, weights, earrings, necklaces, wall murals, etc. In Tell-el-Obeid, a copper calf was found with a crescent moon on its forehead. An idol with the body of a bull and the head of man has a crescent moon inlaid on its forehead with shells. In Ur, the Stela of Ur-Nammu has the crescent symbol placed at the top of the register of gods because the Moon-god was the head of the gods. Even bread was baked in the form of a crescent as an act of devotion to the Moon-god. The Ur of the Chaldees was so devoted to the Moon-god that it was sometimes called Nannar in tablets from that time period.

A temple of the Moon-god has been excavated in Ur by Sir Leonard Woolley. He dug up many examples of moon worship in Ur and these are displayed in the British Museum to this day. Harran was likewise noted for its devotion to the Moon-god. In the 1950's a major temple to the Moon-god was excavated at Hazer in Palestine. Two idols of the moon god were found. Each was a stature of a man sitting upon a throne with a crescent moon carved on his chest . The accompanying inscriptions make it clear that these were idols of the Moon-god. Several smaller statues were also found which were identified by their inscriptions as the "daughters" of the Moon-god. What about Arabia? As pointed out by Prof. Coon, "Muslims are notoriously loath to preserve traditions of earlier paganism and like to garble what pre-Islamic history they permit to survive in anachronistic terms."

During the nineteenth century, Amaud, Halevy and Glaser went to Southern Arabia and dug up thousands of Sabean, Minaean, and Qatabanian inscriptions which were subsequently translated. In the 1940's, the archeologists G. Caton Thompson and Carleton S. Coon made some amazing discoveries in Arabia. During the 1950's, Wendell Phillips, W.F. Albright, Richard Bower and others excavated sites at Qataban, Timna, and Marib (the ancient capital of Sheba). Thousands of inscriptions from walls and rocks in Northern Arabia have also been collected. Reliefs and votive bowls used in worship of the "daughters of Allah" have also been discovered. The three daughters, al-Lat, al-Uzza and Manat are sometimes depicted together with Allah the Moon-god represented by a crescent moon above them. The archeological evidence demonstrates that the dominant religion of Arabia was the cult of the Moon-god.

In Old Testament times, Nabonidus (555-539 BC), the last king of Babylon, built Tayma, Arabia as a center of Moon-god worship. Segall stated, "South Arabia's stellar religion has always been dominated by the Moon-god in various variations." Many scholars have also noticed that the Moon-god's name "Sin" is a part of such Arabic words as "Sinai," the "wilderness of Sin," etc. When the popularity of the Moon-god waned elsewhere, the Arabs remained true to their conviction that the Moon-god was the greatest of all gods. While they worshipped 360 gods at the Kabah in Mecca, the Moon-god was the chief deity. Mecca was in fact built as a shrine for the Moon-god.

This is what made it the most sacred site of Arabian paganism. In 1944, G. Caton Thompson revealed in her book, The Tombs and Moon Temple of Hureidha, that she had uncovered a temple of the Moon-god in southern Arabia. The symbols of the crescent moon and no less than twenty-one inscriptions with the name Sin were found in this temple. An idol which may be the Moon-god himself was also discovered. This was later confirmed by other well-known archeologists.

The evidence reveals that the temple of the Moon-god was active even in the Christian era. Evidence gathered from both North and South Arabia demonstrate that Moon-god worship was clearly active even in Muhammad's day and was still the dominant cult. According to numerous inscriptions, while the name of the Moon-god was Sin, his title was al- ilah, i.e. "the deity," meaning that he was the chief or high god among the gods. As Coon pointed out, "The god Il or Ilah was originally a phase of the Moon God." The Moon-god was called al- ilah, i.e. the god, which was shortened to Allah in pre-Islamic times. The pagan Arabs even used Allah in the names they gave to their children. For example, both Muhammad's father and uncle had Allah as part of their names.

The fact that they were given such names by their pagan parents proves that Allah was the title for the Moon-god even in Muhammad's day. Prof. Coon goes on to say, "Similarly, under Mohammed's tutelage, the relatively anonymous Ilah, became Al-Ilah, The God, or Allah, the Supreme Being."

This fact answers the questions, "Why is Allah never defined in the Qur'an? Why did Muhammad assume that the pagan Arabs already knew who Allah was?" Muhammad was raised in the religion of the Moon-god Allah. But he went one step further than his fellow pagan Arabs. While they believed that Allah, i.e. the Moon-god, was the greatest of all gods and the supreme deity in a pantheon of deities, Muhammad decided that Allah was not only the greatest god but the only god.

In effect he said, "Look, you already believe that the Moon-god Allah is the greatest of all gods. All I want you to do is to accept that the idea that he is the only god. I am not taking away the Allah you already worship. I am only taking away his wife and his daughters and all the other gods." This is seen from the fact that the first point of the Muslim creed is not, "Allah is great" but "Allah is the greatest," i.e., he is the greatest among the gods. Why would Muhammad say that Allah is the "greatest" except in a polytheistic context? The Arabic word is used to contrast the greater from the lesser. That this is true is seen from the fact that the pagan Arabs never accused Muhammad of preaching a different Allah than the one they already worshipped. This "Allah" was the Moon-god according to the archeological evidence. Muhammad thus attempted to have it both ways. To the pagans, he said that he still believed in the Moon-god Allah. To the Jews and the Christians, he said that Allah was their God too. But both the Jews and the Christians knew better and that is why they rejected his god Allah as a false god.

Al-Kindi, one of the early Christian apologists against Islam, pointed out that Islam and its god Allah did not come from the Bible but from the paganism of the Sabeans. They did not worship the God of the Bible but the Moon-god and his daughters al-Uzza, al-Lat and Manat. Dr. Newman concludes his study of the early Christian-Muslim debates by stating, "Islam proved itself to be...a separate and antagonistic religion which had sprung up from idolatry." Islamic scholar Caesar Farah concluded "There is no reason, therefore, to accept the idea that Allah passed to the Muslims from the Christians and Jews." The Arabs worshipped the Moon-god as a supreme deity. But this was not biblical monotheism. While the Moon-god was greater than all other gods and goddesses, this was still a polytheistic pantheon of deities. Now that we have the actual idols of the Moon-god, it is no longer possible to avoid the fact that Allah was a pagan god in pre-Islamic times. Is it any wonder then that the symbol of Islam is the crescent moon? That a crescent moon sits on top of their mosques and minarets? That a crescent moon is found on the flags of Islamic nations? That the Muslims fast during the month which begins and ends with the appearance of the crescent moon in the sky?

CONCLUSION

The pagan Arabs worshipped the Moon-god Allah by praying toward Mecca several times a day; making a pilgrimage to Mecca; running around the temple of the Moon-god called the Kabah; kissing the black stone; killing an animal in sacrifice to the Moon-god; throwing stones at the devil; fasting for the month which begins and ends with the crescent moon; giving alms to the poor, etc.

The Muslim's claim that Allah is the God of the Bible and that Islam arose from the religion of the prophets and apostles is refuted by solid, overwhelming archeological evidence. Islam is nothing more than a revival of the ancient Moon-god cult. It has taken the symbols, the rites, the ceremonies, and even the name of its god from the ancient pagan religion of the Moon-god. As such, it is sheer idolatry and must be rejected by all those who follow the Torah and Gospel. moongod.htm

Further information: thoroughly study the links in this file and also in The Cult of the Moon God The Vatican and Islam

Yeshua Communications Network.
Copyright 1997-8, All Rights Reserved.
http://www.yeshua.co.uk
http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/

[scooby85]

Allah - the Moon God

The Archeology of The Middle East

The religion of Islam has as its focus of worship a deity by the name of "Allah." The Muslims claim that Allah in pre-Islamic times was the biblical God of the Patriarchs, prophets, and apostles. The issue is thus one of continuity. Was "Allah" the biblical God or a pagan god in Arabia during pre- Islamic times? The Muslim's claim of continuity is essential to their attempt to convert Jews and Christians for if "Allah" is part of the flow of divine revelation in Scripture, then it is the next step in biblical religion. Thus we should all become Muslims. But, on the other hand, if Allah was a pre- Islamic pagan deity, then its core claim is refuted. Religious claims often fall before the results of hard sciences such as archeology. We can endlessly speculate about the past or go and dig it up and see what the evidence reveals. This is the only way to find out the truth concerning the origins of Allah. As we shall see, the hard evidence demonstrates that the god Allah was a pagan deity. In fact, he was the Moon-god who was married to the sun goddess and the stars were his daughters.



The reader must know that Ismael was a Hebrew.

Archaeologists have uncovered temples to the Moon-god throughout the Middle East. From the mountains of Turkey to the banks of the Nile, the most wide-spread religion of the ancient world was the worship of the Moon-god. In the first literate civilization, the Sumerians have left us thousands of clay tablets in which they described their religious beliefs. As demonstrated by Sjoberg and Hall, the ancient Sumerians worshipped a Moon-god who was called many different names. The most popular names were Nanna, Suen and Asimbabbar. His symbol was the crescent moon. Given the amount of artifacts concerning the worship of this Moon-god, it is clear that this was the dominant religion in Sumeria. The cult of the Moon-god was the most popular religion throughout ancient Mesopotamia. The Assyrians, Babylonians, and the Akkadians took the word Suen and transformed it into the word Sin as their favorite name for the Moon-god. As Prof. Potts pointed out, "Sin is a name essentially Sumerian in origin which had been borrowed by the Semites. "

In ancient Syria and Canna, the Moon-god Sin was usually represented by the moon in its crescent phase. At times the full moon was placed inside the crescent moon to emphasize all the phases of the moon. The sun-goddess was the wife of Sin and the stars were their daughters. For example, Istar was a daughter of Sin. Sacrifices to the Moon-god are described in the Pas Shamra texts. In the Ugaritic texts, the Moon-god was sometimes called Kusuh. In Persia, as well as in Egypt, the Moon- god is depicted on wall murals and on the heads of statues. He was the Judge of men and gods. The Old Testament constantly rebuked the worship of the Moon-god (see: Deut. 4:19;17:3; II Kngs. 21:3,5; 23:5; Jer. 8:2; 19:13; Zeph. 1:5, etc.) When Israel fell into idolatry, it was usually the cult of the Moon-god. As a matter of fact, everywhere in the ancient world, the symbol of the crescent moon can be found on seal impressions, steles, pottery, amulets, clay tablets, cylinders, weights, earrings, necklaces, wall murals, etc. In Tell-el-Obeid, a copper calf was found with a crescent moon on its forehead. An idol with the body of a bull and the head of man has a crescent moon inlaid on its forehead with shells. In Ur, the Stela of Ur-Nammu has the crescent symbol placed at the top of the register of gods because the Moon-god was the head of the gods. Even bread was baked in the form of a crescent as an act of devotion to the Moon-god. The Ur of the Chaldees was so devoted to the Moon-god that it was sometimes called Nannar in tablets from that time period.

A temple of the Moon-god has been excavated in Ur by Sir Leonard Woolley. He dug up many examples of moon worship in Ur and these are displayed in the British Museum to this day. Harran was likewise noted for its devotion to the Moon-god. In the 1950's a major temple to the Moon-god was excavated at Hazer in Palestine. Two idols of the moon god were found. Each was a stature of a man sitting upon a throne with a crescent moon carved on his chest . The accompanying inscriptions make it clear that these were idols of the Moon-god. Several smaller statues were also found which were identified by their inscriptions as the "daughters" of the Moon-god. What about Arabia? As pointed out by Prof. Coon, "Muslims are notoriously loath to preserve traditions of earlier paganism and like to garble what pre-Islamic history they permit to survive in anachronistic terms."

During the nineteenth century, Amaud, Halevy and Glaser went to Southern Arabia and dug up thousands of Sabean, Minaean, and Qatabanian inscriptions which were subsequently translated. In the 1940's, the archeologists G. Caton Thompson and Carleton S. Coon made some amazing discoveries in Arabia. During the 1950's, Wendell Phillips, W.F. Albright, Richard Bower and others excavated sites at Qataban, Timna, and Marib (the ancient capital of Sheba). Thousands of inscriptions from walls and rocks in Northern Arabia have also been collected. Reliefs and votive bowls used in worship of the "daughters of Allah" have also been discovered. The three daughters, al-Lat, al-Uzza and Manat are sometimes depicted together with Allah the Moon-god represented by a crescent moon above them. The archeological evidence demonstrates that the dominant religion of Arabia was the cult of the Moon-god.

In Old Testament times, Nabonidus (555-539 BC), the last king of Babylon, built Tayma, Arabia as a center of Moon-god worship. Segall stated, "South Arabia's stellar religion has always been dominated by the Moon-god in various variations." Many scholars have also noticed that the Moon-god's name "Sin" is a part of such Arabic words as "Sinai," the "wilderness of Sin," etc. When the popularity of the Moon-god waned elsewhere, the Arabs remained true to their conviction that the Moon-god was the greatest of all gods. While they worshipped 360 gods at the Kabah in Mecca, the Moon-god was the chief deity. Mecca was in fact built as a shrine for the Moon-god.

This is what made it the most sacred site of Arabian paganism. In 1944, G. Caton Thompson revealed in her book, The Tombs and Moon Temple of Hureidha, that she had uncovered a temple of the Moon-god in southern Arabia. The symbols of the crescent moon and no less than twenty-one inscriptions with the name Sin were found in this temple. An idol which may be the Moon-god himself was also discovered. This was later confirmed by other well-known archeologists.

The evidence reveals that the temple of the Moon-god was active even in the Christian era. Evidence gathered from both North and South Arabia demonstrate that Moon-god worship was clearly active even in Muhammad's day and was still the dominant cult. According to numerous inscriptions, while the name of the Moon-god was Sin, his title was al- ilah, i.e. "the deity," meaning that he was the chief or high god among the gods. As Coon pointed out, "The god Il or Ilah was originally a phase of the Moon God." The Moon-god was called al- ilah, i.e. the god, which was shortened to Allah in pre-Islamic times. The pagan Arabs even used Allah in the names they gave to their children. For example, both Muhammad's father and uncle had Allah as part of their names.

The fact that they were given such names by their pagan parents proves that Allah was the title for the Moon-god even in Muhammad's day. Prof. Coon goes on to say, "Similarly, under Mohammed's tutelage, the relatively anonymous Ilah, became Al-Ilah, The God, or Allah, the Supreme Being."

This fact answers the questions, "Why is Allah never defined in the Qur'an? Why did Muhammad assume that the pagan Arabs already knew who Allah was?" Muhammad was raised in the religion of the Moon-god Allah. But he went one step further than his fellow pagan Arabs. While they believed that Allah, i.e. the Moon-god, was the greatest of all gods and the supreme deity in a pantheon of deities, Muhammad decided that Allah was not only the greatest god but the only god.

In effect he said, "Look, you already believe that the Moon-god Allah is the greatest of all gods. All I want you to do is to accept that the idea that he is the only god. I am not taking away the Allah you already worship. I am only taking away his wife and his daughters and all the other gods." This is seen from the fact that the first point of the Muslim creed is not, "Allah is great" but "Allah is the greatest," i.e., he is the greatest among the gods. Why would Muhammad say that Allah is the "greatest" except in a polytheistic context? The Arabic word is used to contrast the greater from the lesser. That this is true is seen from the fact that the pagan Arabs never accused Muhammad of preaching a different Allah than the one they already worshipped. This "Allah" was the Moon-god according to the archeological evidence. Muhammad thus attempted to have it both ways. To the pagans, he said that he still believed in the Moon-god Allah. To the Jews and the Christians, he said that Allah was their God too. But both the Jews and the Christians knew better and that is why they rejected his god Allah as a false god.

Al-Kindi, one of the early Christian apologists against Islam, pointed out that Islam and its god Allah did not come from the Bible but from the paganism of the Sabeans. They did not worship the God of the Bible but the Moon-god and his daughters al-Uzza, al-Lat and Manat. Dr. Newman concludes his study of the early Christian-Muslim debates by stating, "Islam proved itself to be...a separate and antagonistic religion which had sprung up from idolatry." Islamic scholar Caesar Farah concluded "There is no reason, therefore, to accept the idea that Allah passed to the Muslims from the Christians and Jews." The Arabs worshipped the Moon-god as a supreme deity. But this was not biblical monotheism. While the Moon-god was greater than all other gods and goddesses, this was still a polytheistic pantheon of deities. Now that we have the actual idols of the Moon-god, it is no longer possible to avoid the fact that Allah was a pagan god in pre-Islamic times. Is it any wonder then that the symbol of Islam is the crescent moon? That a crescent moon sits on top of their mosques and minarets? That a crescent moon is found on the flags of Islamic nations? That the Muslims fast during the month which begins and ends with the appearance of the crescent moon in the sky?

CONCLUSION

The pagan Arabs worshipped the Moon-god Allah by praying toward Mecca several times a day; making a pilgrimage to Mecca; running around the temple of the Moon-god called the Kabah; kissing the black stone; killing an animal in sacrifice to the Moon-god; throwing stones at the devil; fasting for the month which begins and ends with the crescent moon; giving alms to the poor, etc.

The Muslim's claim that Allah is the God of the Bible and that Islam arose from the religion of the prophets and apostles is refuted by solid, overwhelming archeological evidence. Islam is nothing more than a revival of the ancient Moon-god cult. It has taken the symbols, the rites, the ceremonies, and even the name of its god from the ancient pagan religion of the Moon-god. As such, it is sheer idolatry and must be rejected by all those who follow the Torah and Gospel. moongod.htm

Further information: thoroughly study the links in this file and also in The Cult of the Moon God The Vatican and Islam

Yeshua Communications Network.
Copyright 1997-8, All Rights Reserved.
http://www.yeshua.co.uk
http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/

anyone can make wild accusations without backing it up with credible evidence..

those who think that allah is not the god of moses and jesus will be disppointed.. i will prove this now.. heres a text from the book of genesis:

http://www.mostmerciful.com/arabic-bible-genesis.jpg

and note the word 'allah'? i rest my case...


and all that stuff about the moon god can be refuted with just these verses from the holy quran:

Among His Signs are the Night and the Day and the Sun and Moon. Prostrate (adore) not to the Sun and the Moon but prostrate to Allah, Who created them, if it is Him ye wish to serve." Holy Qur'an 41:37

"Nay We hurl the Truth against falsehood and it knocks out its brain and behold falsehood doth perish! Ah! woe be to you for the (false) things ye ascribe (to Us).
Holy Qur'an 21:18

[eternal_spirit]

http://www.bible.ca/islam/islam-black-stone-in-kaba.jpg (http://www.bible.ca/islam/islam-black-stone-in-kaba.jpg)

Muslims believe (without proof) that the revered "black stone" (Alhajar Al-Aswad) is a special divine meteorite, that pre-dates creation that fell at the foot of Adam and Eve. It is presently embedded in the southeastern corner of the Kaba. Muslims touch and kiss the black stone during Hajj but non-Muslims are strictly forbidden to even touch it.

[arten]

anyone can make wild accusations without backing it up with credible evidence..

those who think that allah is not the god of moses and jesus will be disppointed.. i will prove this now.. heres a text from the book of genesis:

http://www.mostmerciful.com/arabic-bible-genesis.jpg

and note the word 'allah'? i rest my case...


and all that stuff about the moon god can be refuted with just these verses from the holy quran:

Among His Signs are the Night and the Day and the Sun and Moon. Prostrate (adore) not to the Sun and the Moon but prostrate to Allah, Who created them, if it is Him ye wish to serve." Holy Qur'an 41:37

"Nay We hurl the Truth against falsehood and it knocks out its brain and behold falsehood doth perish! Ah! woe be to you for the (false) things ye ascribe (to Us).
Holy Qur'an 21:18

The evidence is there but you refuse to accept it and quoting something from the Koran is not evidence that Islam does not stem from a Moon worshiping Pagan cult. The only true Monotheistic religion seems to be Judaism. :eek:

[bowtiedaddy]

http://www.bible.ca/islam/islam-black-stone-in-kaba.jpg (http://www.bible.ca/islam/islam-black-stone-in-kaba.jpg)

Muslims believe (without proof) that the revered "black stone" (Alhajar Al-Aswad) is a special divine meteorite, that pre-dates creation that fell at the foot of Adam and Eve. It is presently embedded in the southeastern corner of the Kaba. Muslims touch and kiss the black stone during Hajj but non-Muslims are strictly forbidden to even touch it.

hmmm interesting. Maybe that's where the "all seeing eye" came from. How would we really know? Humans are really good at making a big mystical deal about normal things, aren't we?

[islamvslizards]

how can islam be created from worshipping a moon god, when the cresent and star symbology didnt even exist at the time of the prophet, nor even in the same country! it was the symbol of the ottoman empire based in turkey!!!


the ottoman empire (look at the flag) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman_empire)

[islamvslizards]

some more info on how the crescent and star symbolism arose, and how its got nothing to with religion and everything to do with culture of the ottomans:

the ottoman flags (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman_flag)

The crescent was an ancient symbol of Byzantium and Constantinople, and while this alone was an important reason to adopt the symbol as an Ottoman symbol, it was not the only reason. In some Turkish clans and kingdoms, the crescent-shaped symbols were used extensively. The crescent was quite popular in Persia, which was the origin of most of the non-Roman Ottoman culture at that point, and it was remarkably similar to the Kayi clan tamgha from which Osman was descended and the Khanate of which the Ottoman state emerged. The crescent for the Ottoman Empire therefore was a powerful message as well as an appropriate symbol, binding the past to the future.

really, all this talk about vaticans and moon gods is utter nonsense

[quysant]

anyone can make wild accusations without backing it up with credible evidence..

those who think that allah is not the god of moses and jesus will be disppointed..




The Arabic name Abdullah means - servant of Allah;

The prophet Muhammad's father was called Abdullah.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad

Which Allah was Muhammad's father serving before Islam was born?

[islamvslizards]

The Arabic name Abdullah means - servant of Allah;

The prophet Muhammad's father was called Abdullah.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad

Which Allah was Muhammad's father serving before Islam was born?

the allah of abraham. prophet muhammed was prophet abrahams (and actually related to jesus) direct descendant, as obviously was his father abdullah.

abraham was a monotheist. abdullah was a monotheist. muhammed was a monotheist. abraham had ownershipf of the kaaba, the family of muhammed had ownership of the kaaba.

the name "allah" use before the advent of islam has been proven by many scholars.

i will quote the world famous allama tabatabei, in his universally respected tafsir al mizan (study on the quran)

"al-Ism " (= name) is the word that points to the named thing or person. It is derived from as-simah (= sign, identifying mark) or as-sumuww (= height, eminence). In any case, it is the word by which an individual thing or person is spoken of or spoken to. Naturally, it is other than, and separate from, the named thing.

The following is a sample of the academic exercises so much loved by the ancients:

There is a name that means "the person himself seen in the light of an attribute"; such a name is not separate from the named person; it is the person himself. The word al- Alim (= The Knower), one of the divine names, points to the Person of Allah as seen in the light of His attribute of Knowledge. At the same time, it refers to Allah Who cannot be known except by one or the other of His attributes. Let us explain this matter in another way: "Name" points to the named person; likewise the personal traits and characteristics point to the holder of those traits and characteristics - in this way, we may say that the personal traits are the "names" of the person concerned. "Name", accordingly, can be of two kinds: in words, and in substance. The direct name is of the second type, that is, the personal trait that points to its own subjects - for example, the "Knowledge" that points to Allah, the holder of the knowledge. And the word "the Knower" is in reality an indirect name - it points to the direct name, that is, the attribute of knowledge, which in its turn directly points to its holder, that is, Allah. "Knowledge" is, thus, the name of Allah, and "the Knower" is "the name of the name".

The above was the result of the academic analysis (or should we say, mental luxury!) mentioned earlier; but such things should not be imposed on language and literature. "Name", according to the "plain Arabic language", means what we have written earlier. There was a lot of controversy going on among the theologians of the early centuries of Islam: whether the name was separate from the named person or not. Such unnecessary polemics is out of place at present times; it is self- evident that "name" and "named" are two things, and not one. We should not waste time and energy in quoting the ancients' arguments and counter-arguments, and in judging who was right.

"Allah" (= the divine name) was originally al-Ilah; the "I"; in the middle was omitted because of frequent use. al-Ilah is derived from alaha ( = he worshipped) or from aliha or waliha (= he was bewildered). It is on paradigm of al-fi’al in meaning of al-maf’ul (= object-noun). For example, al-Kitab means al-Maktub (= the written); likewise al-Ilah means al-Ma’luh that is, the One who is worshipped, or the One about whom minds are bewildered.

Quite clearly, it has become the proper name of God. It was commonly used in this meaning in Arabic long before the Qur'an was revealed. The fact that even pre-Islamic Arabs used this name for God, may be inferred from the following verses:

And if you should ask them who created them, they would certainly say: "Allah" …. (43:87)

.. . . and they say: "7his for Allah " - so they assert - "and this is for our associates". (6:136).

Other divine names may be used as adjectives for this name; for example, "the Beneficent and the Merciful Allah"; also, this name is used as subject of the verbs derived from other divine names; for example, "Allah knew", "Allah had mercy", "Allah gave sustenance" etc. But the word, "Allah", is never used as adjective to any other name, nor is the verb derived from it used to describe other names. It is a clear proof that it is the proper name of God.

[arten]

the allah of abraham. prophet muhammed was prophet abrahams (and actually related to jesus) direct descendant, as obviously was his father abdullah.

It ain't Islam v Lizards it is Islam and the Lizards because Islam like all other organised religions is there strictly to control people. The added bonus for the lizards is that people who are afflicted by this mind virus are prepared to kill one and other in the name of their god. :eek:

[islamvslizards]

there is a difference between muslims and wahabbis, and jews and zionists.

[eternal_spirit]

Tha Kabba has no windows which is typical of some more ancient religion, another clue that it is an off shoot of some previous religion maybe.

Don't masonic Lodges or Temples have no windows either? And Indian sweat Lodges.

[islamvslizards]

^^ theyre also made out of bricks, just like masonic lodges. you forgot the bricks ;)

[quysant]

the allah of abraham. prophet muhammed was prophet abrahams (and actually related to jesus) direct descendant, as obviously was his father abdullah.

abraham was a monotheist. abdullah was a monotheist. muhammed was a monotheist. abraham had ownershipf of the kaaba, the family of muhammed had ownership of the kaaba.



You are quoting myths as if they were historical truths!

The Quraysh tribe to which Mohammed belonged was not monotheistic at all.
Worship of the Black Stone is and has always been idolatrous.


Islam certainly claims to be worshipping Abraham's God.

The word "Al Ilah" simply means "the God".

However, Christianity and Islam have clear differences in belief and doctrine, their teachings about "God" diverge from each other, and in this respect they worship quite separate entities.

The only similarity is in the name of God Eli or El, but as far I am aware Allah is the only God that has three daughters. (Al-‘Uzza, al-Lat and Manah)

[void]

http://www.bible.ca/islam/islam-black-stone-in-kaba.jpg

Got to say, that one always reminds of a Clitoris in its hood. :o

I wonder if that was intentional at all, prior to the arrival of Islam? :confused:

[islamvslizards]

You are quoting myths as if they were historical truths!


i am quoting the belief common to all three major world religions.


The Quraysh tribe to which Mohammed belonged was not monotheistic at all.
Worship of the Black Stone is and has always been idolatrous.


abu lahab and abu jahal were the idolators, the rest of the family were monotheist. this is well recorded in the quran and hadiths. see hadiths about the "year of the elephant" any why it was called that.


Islam certainly claims to be worshipping Abraham's God.

The word "Al Ilah" simply means "the God".


please bring proof. i have cut and pasted quite a lengthy article from a famous and well respected scholar which explains what "allah" means. "the god" doesnt even come CLOSE to what it means.


However, Christianity and Islam have clear differences in belief and doctrine, their teachings about "God" diverge from each other, and in this respect they worship quite separate entities.

The only similarity is in the name of God Eli or El, but as far I am aware Allah is the only God that has three daughters. (Al-‘Uzza, al-Lat and Manah)

and the christian god is the "true" god right? according to the bible who no one even knows who wrote, or when, or in what language?

for the second point, read the passage i quoted from allama tabatabei.

[scooby85]

http://www.bible.ca/islam/islam-black-stone-in-kaba.jpg (http://www.bible.ca/islam/islam-black-stone-in-kaba.jpg)

Muslims believe (without proof) that the revered "black stone" (Alhajar Al-Aswad) is a special divine meteorite, that pre-dates creation that fell at the foot of Adam and Eve. It is presently embedded in the southeastern corner of the Kaba. Muslims touch and kiss the black stone during Hajj but non-Muslims are strictly forbidden to even touch it.

all seeing eye? :D ok...
think ur goin a bit crazy now geez

:rolleyes:

dont u just love it wen non muslims cant find any real evidences that back up their claims so they use ridiculous theories and very far fetched ideas..

wasnt u who also said that the black meteor represents the rock god named.. wait for it.. 'allah'? it was either u or one of ur friends from here. and iv also heard that its spose to represent the female genitalia..

So it stands for all the seeing eye/rock god/vagina?

how can people take u seriously wen u dont even no what u r arguing about? things like these make u look desperate.. like i said find me credible evidence, not what a few anti islamic sites or people say.. things like these can be easily be made up like people like u..

if i was strongly anti christian I can say jesus was the name of an ancient pagan god but wudnt mean its rite tho... show me real evidence then we cud have a debate..

[scooby85]

The evidence is there but you refuse to accept it and quoting something from the Koran is not evidence that Islam does not stem from a Moon worshiping Pagan cult. The only true Monotheistic religion seems to be Judaism. :eek:

a person or an organisation saying something is not evidence... so did jesus and moses also worship the moon god? as if u read the texts from that time u will find tht they used to bow down to 'allah'.

and to me its solid evidence if its from the quran to u it may not be.. as it is proven that the quran could not have been from a human or jinn cos it has things in there that no one would no except the creator.

[arten]

a person or an organisation saying something is not evidence... so did jesus and moses also worship the moon god? as if u read the texts from that time u will find tht they used to bow down to 'allah'.

and to me its solid evidence if its from the quran to u it may not be.. as it is proven that the quran could not have been from a human or jinn cos it has things in there that no one would no except the creator.

Can u please please supply any evidence that Moses and Jesus existed ffs.

[eternal_spirit]

Got to say, that one always reminds of a Clitoris in its hood. :o

I wonder if that was intentional at all, prior to the arrival of Islam? :confused:
Oh yes! well spotted many places of worship have female symbology, of course this also relates to the moon (Isis probably) as feminine. Mohammed took over Mecca and trashed much of it, and surprise (not to me and others here) Mecca was originally a Pagan site.


quote: scooby
all seeing eye? :D ok...
think ur goin a bit crazy now geez

Not at all, if this was any other religion other than your Islam, you'd be having a field day with such info and the fact it does look very much like any eye and clit :D

[quysant]

abu lahab and abu jahal were the idolators, the rest of the family were monotheist. this is well recorded in the quran and hadiths. see hadiths about the "year of the elephant" any why it was called that.

please bring proof. i have cut and pasted quite a lengthy article from a famous and well respected scholar which explains what "allah" means. "the god" doesnt even come CLOSE to what it means.

and the christian god is the "true" god right? according to the bible who no one even knows who wrote, or when, or in what language?

for the second point, read the passage i quoted from allama tabatabei.

This is part of what you copied & pasted:


likewise al-Ilah means al-Ma’luh that is, the One who is worshipped, or the One about whom minds are bewildered.


What is the difference between "The One who is worshipped" and "The God" ??

The Quraysh was a branch of the Kinana branch, which descended from the Khuzaimah, which had as its purported patriarch Mudhar, descendant of Adnan.

The Quraysh remained completely disunited until Qusai ibn Kilab managed to rally their ranks on honourable terms attaching major prominence to their status and importance.

They were guardians of the Kabah where many other tribes came to worship different Gods and Goddesses.

You said earlier you care not for hadiths ... now you quote them?
I am not a Christian.

No more mention of Allah's three daughters?
See you tomorrow.

[arten]

[QUOTE=scooby85;837481]a person or an organisation saying something is not evidence...

Exactly why I reject all Mind Viruses! :D

[scooby85]

The only similarity is in the name of God Eli or El, but as far I am aware Allah is the only God that has three daughters. (Al-‘Uzza, al-Lat and Manah)

do u want to quote the whole verse on that subject in the quran instead of just those few words? (allah/daughter/uzza/manat/lat). maybe if u read the verses u wud understand what its tryin to say..

here it is:

Have you then considered Lat and Uzza,(19)

and Manat the third, the other?(20)

Are males for you, and for Him females?(21)

That then is an unfair division.(22)

They are not but names that you have given, you and your fathers, for which God has not sent down any authority. They follow only surmise and what the souls desire, while there has come to them guidance from their Lord.(23)

[scooby85]

[QUOTE=scooby85;837481]a person or an organisation saying something is not evidence...

Exactly why I reject all Mind Viruses! :D

u think islam is a means to control people, u are correct but its god controlling us, think about it if god hadnt given us a guide book for humanity, what wud be the norm? incest? getting intoxicated? adultery? sex with animals? so yes of course its telling us how to behave for our OWN good. I see the quran as a mercy from god as anyone who lives by the quran will never be misguided.

Do u see the quran promoting anything bad?

[arten]

[QUOTE=arten;837506]

u think islam is a means to control people, u are correct but its god controlling us, think about it if god hadnt given us a guide book for humanity, what wud be the norm? incest? getting intoxicated? adultery? sex with animals? so yes of course its telling us how to behave for our OWN good. I see the quran as a mercy from god as anyone who lives by the quran will never be misguided.

Do u see the quran promoting anything bad?

A complete load of bollocks and people like you are pissing me well off. So according to you if God controls it all FREE WILL IS A FIGAMENT OF YOUR IMAGINATION!!!

[mephibosheth]

So according to you [Scooby] if God controls it all FREE WILL IS A FIGAMENT OF YOUR IMAGINATION!!!

I think the idea is more like since God is omnipotent, God can and will do whatever God wants to, and no amount of free will will be able to stand against that.

God can lead whom God wants to paradise or perdition, basically on a whim. So paradise is never guaranteed for Muslims, even with a life of good works.

There is a fatalistic element in the Islamic cosmology, on account of God's power in setting things in motion and keeping them in motion, according to God's own desires, which no lesser being knows (or can know). But this is always an issue for any religion that contains a concept of an omnipotent Divinity. Christians know that only the select elect will go to heaven (howsoever that is defined by the various sects), and that this is set by God from the beginning of time, yet they still maintain that we have free will. Well, that freedom is quite impotent in a cosmic sense.

8)

[mephibosheth]

u think islam is a means to control people, u are correct but its god controlling us, think about it if god hadnt given us a guide book for humanity, what wud be the norm? incest? getting intoxicated? adultery? sex with animals? so yes of course its telling us how to behave for our OWN good. I see the quran as a mercy from god as anyone who lives by the quran will never be misguided.

Do u see the quran promoting anything bad?

Well, you have to believe, on faith, that the rules contained in the Quraan are actually from a divine being that is worthy of worship, and that worship and servitude are actually good things.

Its evident that Islam is set up to absolutely control human behaviour. Its a system of regulation that interferes with almost every aspect of human experience. I think that it can be debated whether and to what respect such regulation is needed, natural, or good for human beings.

8)

[picha]

There's a mistake in the title of the thread. It should be called "Reasons why I THINK Islam is not a religion of peace."

Do you really not have anything better to do on a Sunday night than post rambling, divisive rhetoric, which seems to have no purpose but to invoke yet another thread in which we all spend copious amounts of time either writing in defense of your opinion or against it.

Muslims walk around wearing clothing specifically designed to separate the believers from the kaffirs but im the one whos being divisive for merely trying to point out the true nature of islam?

[zarah]

Muslims walk around wearing clothing specifically designed to separate the believers from the kaffirs but im the one whos being divisive for merely trying to point out the true nature of islam?

Do they? So every Muslim is dressed in special Muslim clothes. I was with a Muslim tonight and I'm quite sure he was dressed the same as other non-Muslim men.

You're either completely ignorant, which I find difficult to believe, conditioned, or purposely inciting ridiculous and pointless argument. You have little or no idea who Mohammed was or what type of character he had. None of us do. Most of us though, wouldn't be so foolish or agumentative as to have the audacity to source a substantive argument on Mohammed's perceived negative traits straight from an anti -Islamic website.

I should also point out that a Kaffir is referred to in the Qur'an as someone who doesn't accept God, which does not mean Christians and Jews, as quite obviously they are accepting of God, just in a slightly different context. Or were you referring to Black South Africans? Or perhaps lime leaves....

[adbasque]

Is there a caveat that says I have to refute anything you've written in order to post?

You don't like Islam...and? It doesn't affect my life one bit. You think Mohammed wasn't a 'nice bloke'...so? Again, nothing important to me alters because you have nothing better to do that try and rile people up. Again.

That is exactly what it is, they do this day in day out, they are trying to provoke and that will give them an excuse to insult Islam and Muslims, what they really want is to insult and we accept it otherwise we are the bad guys, they are trying to make it look like a debate while in fact it's nothing but pure insults :)

The answer to these kinds of attacks is to ignore them, absolutely and totally, when there are no answers they will give up, unless of course they are paid to do so.

[eternal_spirit]

LOL :D

So far in the two years I've been here I've been called Fundamental Christian, Nazi, racist, BNP, lap dog of Satan, A Jew, a Jesuit agent, Freemason, an intelligence agent.

And a long list of unmentionable abominations that don't fit any of the above categories. :D

[zarah]

That is exactly what it is, they do this day in day out, they are trying to provoke and that will give them an excuse to insult Islam and Muslims, what they really want is to insult and we accept it otherwise we are the bad guys, they are trying to make it look like a debate while in fact it's nothing but pure insults :)

The answer to these kinds of attacks is to ignore them, absolutely and totally, when there are no answers they will give up, unless of course they are paid to do so.

I honestly believe that some people here are either paid by entities to post disinformation and cause dissent, or have agendas which are entirely independent of external factors but which result in the same effect.

I really dislike the concept of organised religion, like many others on here, but it's really inidicative that it's the same members who are antagonistic, posting the same lies and misconceptions over and over and over again in different topics in different categories, but with essentially the same message and with the same consequence.

[islamvslizards]

What is the difference between "The One who is worshipped" and "The God" ??


you cant cut and paste a single sentence and use that to prove yourself right. my point was that "allah" means much more than "god" of christians.


The Quraysh was a branch of the Kinana branch, which descended from the Khuzaimah, which had as its purported patriarch Mudhar, descendant of Adnan....


i am aware of what you are saying. whats important to establish is whether or not (1) the prophet was related to abraham and (2) was he a monotheist before the advent of islam

take a look at how the prophet is related to abraham (http://www.answering-christianity.com/family_tree.htm)

what the quran says about the relationship between abraham and mohammed:

[2.127] And when Ibrahim and Ismail raised the foundations of the House: Our Lord! accept from us; surely Thou art the Hearing, the Knowing:
[2.128] Our Lord! and make us both submissive to Thee and (raise) from our offspring a nation submitting to Thee, and show us our ways of devotion and turn to us (mercifully), surely Thou art the Oft-returning (to mercy), the Merciful.
[2.129] Our Lord! and raise up in them an Apostle from among them who shall recite to them Thy communications and teach them the Book and the wisdom, and purify them; surely Thou art the Mighty, the Wise.

what famous scholars think of the monotheism of mohammed before the advent of islam:

(1) Agha Pooya/ Ali:

When Ibrahim and Ismail raised the foundations of the holy Kabah, they prayed to Allah to accept their service, make them both Muslims (submissive to Allah), and also make their descendants Muslims, and raise up in them a messenger who would recite to them Allah's revelation, teach them the book and the wisdom and purify them.

This prayer shows that there had always been some men and women in the progeny of Ibrahim who were true Muslims, through whom the divine light of Muhammad and Ali passed till it reached Abdul Muttalib. Then his two sons Abdullah and Abu Talib carried it separately. Abdullah transferred it to Muhammad. and Abu Talib transferred it to Ali, the vicegerent and the successor of the Holy Prophet the first of the twelve Imams the divinely commissioned rightly guided guides for mankind. "I and Ali are from one and the same light", said the Holy Prophet

The word ummat does not always means a community or a nation. In verse 120 of al Nahl it refers to a single individual.

This prayer also shows how difficult it is to be a true Muslim. Even a distinguished prophet of Allah like Ibrahim makes a request to Allah to let him remain a Muslim.

(2) allama tabatabei in his "tafsir al mizan":

The words translated here as submissive and submitting are muslim and its feminine muslimah respectively. Obviously, the definition of Islam, with which we are familiar, and which comes to our minds as soon as we hear the word, Islam, is just the elementary grade of servitude; it distinguishes a professed convert from the one who openly rejects the faith. This elementary Islam means professing the matters of faith and doing necessary deeds, no matter whether it is done with true belief or hypocritically. Now, Ibrahim (a.s.) was a prophet, a messenger and one of the five ulu 'l-'azm apostles, who gave us the upright faith. It is unthinkable that such a great prophet had not attained, at the time when he was praying, this most elementary grade of Islam. Likewise, his son, Ismail (a.s.), was a messenger of Allah and had been offered as sacrifice in His way. Can it be said that they had got that much Islam but were unaware of it? Or that, although they were aware of having attained to that Islam but wanted to continue on it? Just look at the context of the prayer: Those who prayed were so near to Alton; they were praying while building His Sacred House; they knew whom they were praying to, and who He was and how great His splendor is. Could they, in that position, ask for such a trivial grade from the Lord Almighty? Moreover, this grade of Islam is among those things which are within the power of man himself; and that is why man can be ordered to accept it; as Allah says: When his Lord said to him: "Be a Muslim", he said: "I submit myself to the Lord of the worlds" (2:131). Obviously, such a quality or action cannot be attributed to Allah; likewise, it is meaningless to ask from Allah to do a work which has been placed within the power of the man himself. (Of course, it may be done if there is some special condition which makes Divine interference justifiable.)

Therefore, the Islam they had asked for was not that Islam whose definition we are familiar with. Islam has many grades, as may be see in the verse quoted above: When his Lord said to him (i.e., Ibrahim): "Be a Muslim" ' he said: "I submit myself to the Lord of the worlds" (2:131). Ibrahim (a. s.) was ordered to be a Muslim at a time when he was already a Muslim. Clearly, the Islam which he was told to attain was other than the Islam he had already attained. There are many such examples in the Qur'an

This sublime grade of Islam - which we shall explain in detail later on, means total servitude, unconditional surrender of all a servant has got to his Master. No doubt it is within a man's power to prepare the conditions facilitating its attainment. Yet, when we look at an average man and the usual condition of his heart and mind, such a high standard seems beyond his power to attain. In other words, it is not possible for him - in the conditions surrounding him - to get to that sublime Islam. From this point of view that Islam is not different from other positions of al-wilayah (= friendship of Allah) and its lofty stages, or from other grades of perfection -all of them are beyond the reach of an average man, because he cannot fulfill their necessary conditions. In this sense, it is possible to count that Islam as a Divine gift, which is beyond a man's power to attain by himself. Consequently, it is perfectly right for a man to pray to Allah to bestow on him that sublime quality and make him a Muslim of that high rank.

Moreover, there is another deeper connotations: It is only actions which are attributed to man and emanate from his free will and power; as for his attributes and deep-rooted traits (which are etched on his psyche by repeated actions), they are in fact beyond his power. Therefore, they may be - or let us say, should be attributed to Allah, especially if they are good and virtuous attributes, which should better be attributed to Allah rather than to man. This observation is based on the style used in the Qur'an. For example:

"My Lord! make me keep up prayer, and from my offspring (too) " (14:40);

" . . . and join me with the good ones" (26:83);

"My Lord! grant me that I should be grateful for Thy bounty which Thou has bestowed on me and on my parents, and that I should do good such as Thou art pleased with, and make me enter, by Thy mercy, into Thy servants, the good ones" (27:19);

"Our Lord! and make us both submissive to Thee and (raise) from our offspring a group submitting to Thee" (2:128).

It is now clear that the Islam, which Ibrahim and Ismail had asked for, was something different from the Islam to which the verse 49:14 refers: The dwellers of the desert say: "We believe. " Say: "You do not believe but say: 'We submit (we accept Islam)'; and faith has not yet entered into your hearts.”

The Islam they prayed for was of a high rank and sublime grade, which we shall explain later on.



You said earlier you care not for hadiths ... now you quote them?
I am not a Christian.


no, i do not believe all hadiths in bukhari, muslim and the other main hadith books are true. i believe in some, but not in others.


No more mention of Allah's three daughters?
See you tomorrow.

when did i mention these daughters? what exactly did you ask me regarding them?

[debs67gb]

LOL :D

So far in the two years I've been here I've been called Fundamental Christian, Nazi, racist, BNP, lap dog of Satan, A Jew, a Jesuit agent, Freemason, an intelligence agent.

And a long list of unmentionable abominations that don't fit any of the above categories. :D

wow .... i'm jealous lol :) *hugs*

[arten]

wow .... i'm jealous lol :) *hugs*

Oi Oi lol;)

[quysant]

I see you are a Shi'a .. are you a twelver?

You seem to know little about pre-islamic times:

Here some hadiths from Sahih Bukhari; they clearly demonstrate that pre-islamic worship was pagan.

(You may chose to believe them or not)

Volume 3, Book 43, Number 658:
Narrated 'Abdullah bin Masud:
The Prophet entered Mecca and (at that time) there were three hundred-and-sixty idols around the Ka'ba. He started stabbing the idols with a stick he had in his hand and reciting: "Truth (Islam) has come and Falsehood (disbelief) has vanished."

Volume 5, Book 59, Number 584:
Narrated Ibn Abbas:
When Allah's Apostle arrived in Mecca, he refused to enter the Ka'ba while there were idols in it. So he ordered that they be taken out. The pictures of the (Prophets) Abraham and Ishmael, holding arrows of divination in their hands, were carried out. The Prophet said, "May Allah ruin them (i.e. the infidels) for they knew very well that they (i.e. Abraham and Ishmael) never drew lots by these (divination arrows). Then the Prophet entered the Ka'ba and said. "Allahu Akbar" in all its directions and came out and not offer any prayer therein.

Volume 5, Book 58, Number 172:
Narrated 'Aisha:
'Ashura' (i.e. the tenth of Muharram) was a day on which the tribe of Quraish used to fast in the pre-lslamic period of ignorance. The Prophet also used to fast on this day. So when he migrated to Medina, he fasted on it and ordered (the Muslims) to fast on it. When the fasting of Ramadan was enjoined, it became optional for the people to fast or not to fast on the day of Ashura.




when did i mention these daughters? what exactly did you ask me regarding them?

I mentioned them pointing out that a difference between Allah and the God of the Bible is that Allah had three daughters.

[islamvslizards]

I see you are a Shi'a .. are you a twelver?

yep, although i am fiercly anti - taqleed, which makes me kind of an odd breed by all standards lol.


You seem to know little about pre-islamic times:

Here some hadiths from Sahih Bukhari; they clearly demonstrate that pre-islamic worship was pagan.

(You may chose to believe them or not)

Volume 3, Book 43, Number 658:
Narrated 'Abdullah bin Masud:
The Prophet entered Mecca and (at that time) there were three hundred-and-sixty idols around the Ka'ba. He started stabbing the idols with a stick he had in his hand and reciting: "Truth (Islam) has come and Falsehood (disbelief) has vanished."


firstly i never denied that there were pagans before the advent of islam.

my claim is that the prophet, and his father, and grandfather etc were monotheists, not pagans. please do not twist my words.

secondly on his return to mecca he saw the kaaba (according to him) as his right, since its ownership had traditionally been with his family. upon his return he re-dedicated the masjid to the monotheist god.


I mentioned them pointing out that a difference between Allah and the God of the Bible is that Allah had three daughters.

riiiight. and your proof for that is? actually where is this shown or alluded to or symbolised or hinted towards in islam?

[aitch]

LOL :D

So far in the two years I've been here I've been called Fundamental Christian, Nazi, racist, BNP, lap dog of Satan, A Jew, a Jesuit agent, Freemason, an intelligence agent.

And a long list of unmentionable abominations that don't fit any of the above categories. :DWhich all goes to prove, how much you need to get laid !! ;)

Pussy is a wonderful medicine dude !! Go get some before it's too late !! :D

[void]

So far in the two years I've been here I've been called Fundamental Christian, Nazi, racist, BNP, lap dog of Satan, A Jew, a Jesuit agent, Freemason, an intelligence agent.

Personally, eternal spirit, I always suspected you as an extremist amish jesuit nazi working undercover for that shadowy BNP splinter group the freemason intelligence agency militia attached to the fundamentalist satanic lap dogs. Making notes, I suspect that the various allegations against you are correct, but that other posters haven't slotted together all the pieces of the jigsaw yet to find out just who you reaaaaaaly are so very 'obviously' in your Islamo-facist aims to revive the Caliphate, you crypto Zionist agent provocateur Yid,you :mad:

[void]

Its evident that Islam is set up to absolutely control human behaviour. Its a system of regulation that interferes with almost every aspect of human experience.

Perhaps, but so is Judaism in its most adhered to form. Rules, rules, rules. More 'No's than 'yes' in them. Even Tibetan Buddhism in its political manifestation as Tibet was very controlling of the masses with use of fear of excruciating hell realms as punishment if people stepped out of line in this life. Lots of these ideologys were out to control people to the smallest detail, and still are. It is often said that Muhammad united the tribes of Arabia and brought them into line on certain issues that were nasty prior to his arrival. It could be argued that he was correct for his 'time'. But that was in 600ad or so I believe, and for most adherent Muslims,they believe and announce Islam was the last message for humanity and no more is needed. Personally I find that very hard to accept. Muhammad was the 'last' prophet?

Crikey! :p

[mephibosheth]

Perhaps, but so is Judaism in its most adhered to form. Rules, rules, rules. More 'No's than 'yes' in them. Even Tibetan Buddhism in its political manifestation as Tibet was very controlling of the masses with use of fear of excruciating hell realms as punishment if people stepped out of line in this life. Lots of these ideologys were out to control people to the smallest detail, and still are. It is often said that Muhammad united the tribes of Arabia and brought them into line on certain issues that were nasty prior to his arrival. It could be argued that he was correct for his 'time'. But that was in 600ad or so I believe, and for most adherent Muslims,they believe and announce Islam was the last message for humanity and no more is needed. Personally I find that very hard to accept. Muhammad was the 'last' prophet?

Crikey! :p

In fact, if you don't profess your belief in Mohammed as the final prophet, you can't be considered a Muslim. But this means, also, in effect, buying into the whole historical tradition of Judaism (corrupt or no) too--that is, the historical narrative/world-view/paradigm that Abrahamic religions believe.

Personally, I don't think that a 'final' morality makes much sense, or a 'final' message from God. This seems to speak of a being that is not in touch with the world, one that comes and goes and only connects to this world at specific points in time through intermediaries. Not an omnipotent, omnipresent spiritual force.

But each group gets stuck in their own narrative fantasy. Jews are stuck in exile, Christians are stuck on the cross, and Muslims are stuck walking round the meterorite. Each denies later claims to valid religious revelation.

8)

[islamvslizards]

Perhaps, but so is Judaism in its most adhered to form. Rules, rules, rules. More 'No's than 'yes' in them. Even Tibetan Buddhism in its political manifestation as Tibet was very controlling of the masses with use of fear of excruciating hell realms as punishment if people stepped out of line in this life. Lots of these ideologys were out to control people to the smallest detail, and still are. It is often said that Muhammad united the tribes of Arabia and brought them into line on certain issues that were nasty prior to his arrival. It could be argued that he was correct for his 'time'. But that was in 600ad or so I believe, and for most adherent Muslims,they believe and announce Islam was the last message for humanity and no more is needed. Personally I find that very hard to accept. Muhammad was the 'last' prophet?

Crikey! :p

thank you, you have hit upon an EXCELLENT point :D

the actual muslim view, which is mostly forgotten thanks to the infiltration of the religion, is that from adam until the day of judgement, there has always been, and always will be, guidance for humanity in some form or another. prophethood is just on facet of that guidance. there are other types of guidance tho, that arent prophethood. yes, the prophet muhammed was the final prophet, but does it really make sense that god would send 124,000 prophets from adam to mohammed, then cut them off?

not at all.

as well as prophets (nabi) you have visegerents of prophets (imams), holy men (awliya), men whose lives span eons (abdaal), or even those scholars who have dedicated their lives to study (marja) and so on.

in modern ages, we rely on our qualified, formally educated (i.e. in a hawza) scholars, who dedicated their lives and study 40+ years before they can issue a single fatwa. they apply the rules of islam to modern ages, and in fact are very forward thinking. their topics range from everything from the internet to evolution to stem cell research and everything in between.

can i just make a distinction tho - wahabbi and sunni sects do NOT have a qualified scholar (marja) system as ive described above, nor have they ever. as soon as the prophet died they saw themselves as alone, stumbling in the dark, which is why they are still STUCK in the middle ages.

[islamvslizards]

But each group gets stuck in their own narrative fantasy. Jews are stuck in exile, Christians are stuck on the cross, and Muslims are stuck walking round the meterorite. Each denies later claims to valid religious revelation.

8)

not true. firstly, you need to understand the earlier revelations before you can understand the later ones.

jews and christians are seen as "people of the book" (ahle kitaab) and muslims are allowed to intermarry with them, and respecting them is a part of our faith. we believe they are following the same god that we are, and the same prophets that we follow, but that their religions were infiltrated and distorted.

the muslim view is that a prophet came with a message, the people accepted it, after time that message was distorted so another prophet was sent with the original message, and so on. the message was the same from adam to mohammed. after mohammed the message was maintained by the ahlebeyt until the mahdi went into occultation, and since then has been preserved by an unbroken chain or scholars, who will continue in their duty until the awaited one returns.

as for later religious revelations, how many can you list?

[arten]

In response to the Thread title There is no Religion of Peace they are all designed to control the mind. You have mad fundies from all religions and they will kill you at the drop of an hat because these people are the furthest removed from I Am.

[adbasque]

click

[mephibosheth]

not true. firstly, you need to understand the earlier revelations before you can understand the later ones.

jews and christians are seen as "people of the book" (ahle kitaab) and muslims are allowed to intermarry with them, and respecting them is a part of our faith. we believe they are following the same god that we are, and the same prophets that we follow, but that their religions were infiltrated and distorted.


Sure, but this is building on what has come before. Its looking ahead that seems problematic for religion.

Jews (as a general rule) don't recognize Jesus as being the messiah. They don't recognize the Gospels as authoritative texts, nor bother much about Paul's letters or other Christian writings so far as their religion goes. And they certainly don't recognize Mohammed as the Deuteronomy prophet, since he fails pretty much every criteria.

Christians don't recognize Mohammed as any kind of prophet whatsoever, and the prevailing view is that Islam is more or less connected to the anti-christ. So for many, not all but many, there is an inherent antagonism between the two, since Christians steadfastly cling to their faith that Jesus Christ is King, and God incarnate, and denounce any religious view that says otherwise. Christians accept the earlier Hebrew texts as far as it suits them, but reject anything after the second/third century as authoritative. Mainstream Christians do not, for example, accept Joseph Smith as a prophet, nor Mary Baker-Eddy, or any other (as they see it) deviation.

Muslims, meanwhile, reject derivations like the Baha'i, and no doubt don't see a later tradition like sikhism as religiously valid.

So Islam is stuck with Mohammed, even if this world continues to exist for 100 million more years. Just like Christians are stuck with Jesus, and Jews are stuck waiting for the messiah.



the muslim view is that a prophet came with a message, the people accepted it, after time that message was distorted so another prophet was sent with the original message, and so on. the message was the same from adam to mohammed.


However, that is merely a Muslim belief, to be taken on faith. Jesus's gospel is not the same as the Quraan. So in order to counter this you need to add the further belief that all previous scriptures are false or corrupt. And yet, that they are based on real, truthful stories and history. That's kind of a lot to swallow.



after mohammed the message was maintained by the ahlebeyt until the mahdi went into occultation, and since then has been preserved by an unbroken chain or scholars, who will continue in their duty until the awaited one returns.

as for later religious revelations, how many can you list?

Well religions have been appearing and developing all the while. How many do Islam accept as valid? How many do Christians find valid? The answer is none. No religion that appears 'after' the life/death of the founding prophet is considered valid, since the founding prophet is understood to have brought a perfected message or a solution to all problems that no further advance can improve.

For Christians, all you need is grace and the salvation of the cross. They look and see Islam as a religion based on works. Meanwhile, for Muslims, all you need is faithfulness and a rigorous adherence to rules regulating your life. Anyone who says the Mohammed was not a prophet or the last prophet, well, what can be done about them? They're clearly mistaken.

8)

[scooby85]

i can garantee u that there are a few paid c*nts in here, whos job it is to defame islam.. the bottom line is the ptb no that islam is the truth thats why they are working overtime to destroy it before it destroys them.. and if muslims in here start to explain more about their religion instead of ppl getting the wrong idea thru western media, u always get a couple (u no who u are) who will use the ms media/anti islamic sites to put up an arguement against islam. iv even heard ppl in here say that 9/11 was orchstrated by muslim, muslims are evil, blood hungy etc the kind of stuff even a non muslim would ridicule. If i post a topic in here saying sumthing like 'a muslim saves a jew from drowning..' ur guna get paid idiots like eternal spirit saying oh they only done it so they can convert him and turn him into a suicide bomber or sumthing thats gota turn a positive point into a negative one where islam is concerned...

there are so many posts in which i have made him (and others) look like complete fools and caught them blatently lieing (dont wory e.s im keeping a link for each of the times uv lied to prove to people that u are either a complete ignorant, a compulsive liar, some sort of agent or that u have been bum raped by a 'muslim' - explaining ur hatred for islam. u shud be priviledged, im going to be making a whole topic about u :)

[scooby85]

Sure, but this is building on what has come before. Its looking ahead that seems problematic for religion.

Jews (as a general rule) don't recognize Jesus as being the messiah. They don't recognize the Gospels as authoritative texts, nor bother much about Paul's letters or other Christian writings so far as their religion goes. And they certainly don't recognize Mohammed as the Deuteronomy prophet, since he fails pretty much every criteria.

Christians don't recognize Mohammed as any kind of prophet whatsoever, and the prevailing view is that Islam is more or less connected to the anti-christ. So for many, not all but many, there is an inherent antagonism between the two, since Christians steadfastly cling to their faith that Jesus Christ is King, and God incarnate, and denounce any religious view that says otherwise. Christians accept the earlier Hebrew texts as far as it suits them, but reject anything after the second/third century as authoritative. Mainstream Christians do not, for example, accept Joseph Smith as a prophet, nor Mary Baker-Eddy, or any other (as they see it) deviation.




il let u on in a lil secret ;)

the anti christ will be of the jewish faith (zionist?), hes the false 'messiah' that they are waiting for. according to islam he will rule the world from jerusalem.

If u can see whats happening around the world today then u will see that the predictions/prophecies made are coming good. Why did the zions make the state if israel? for theyre antichrist maybe? why are they determined to build the temple mount in jerusalem over the al aqsa mosque, for the antichrist? why attack islamic nations who oppose the zions? because they know islam is the truth and will destroy them in the end as prophesised, why does the illuminati have an eye as a symbol when islam told u 1400years ago that the antichrist will also have one eye? on the dajjals head will be the letters KFR (kafir) have u seen israels new military sect called.. the kafr brigade and guess what all those planes have that one eye on them too.

we were also told that in the end battle an army of muslims (poss iran) will join forces with a christian army from the north (poss russia) to take on the dajjals army, which the muslim and christians will win, then these two battle it out and islam will reign over the world. jesus will then breeak the cross confirming the truthood of islam.

most of these prophesises have come true and only a fool would think the rest of the prophesesies will not follow... love it or hate it theres no denying that islam is the truth..

if someone followed islam to a tee u can bet ur last dollar that that person will be a good natured/kind/courteous person (to all mankind not just muslims) who abstains from all the evils of this world, the handy work of satan i.e adultery/stealing/lieing/deception/porn/drugs/materialism/taking monetary interests etc now im struggling to see how muslims like that are so bad, if everyone was a muslim u can start too see how nice this world would be to live in. the ptb want everyone to be exactly like the opposites of a muslim for a reason..

just listening to this little verse from the quran proves its gods words, to me anyway:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sboAvcn4_MU&fmt=18

and u can listen to it, it wont kill u :)

[adbasque]

il let u on in a lil secret ;)

the anti christ will be of the jewish faith (zionist?), hes the false 'messiah' that they are waiting for. according to islam he will rule the world from jerusalem.


A little correction here my friend if you don't mind of course, Dajal (Anti christ)
is not a Jew nor Christian, he is Satan worshiper, he will have some powers yes.

He will lead many people on the false path, yes he will reign and rule from Jerusalem, that is why the Zionists are trying to build his temple as you said.

But he is not of any book of Allah, (God)

Can I just explain a little detail if I may

Why doesn't Islam accept any other names such as God and so on,
the origin of God is actually Dog from the pharaos time, they worshipped Dogs, the sun etc..

And the other reason why Allah Prefers the name "Allah" is because you can't pleuralise it.
As opposed to God (Gods) Dieu in french (Dieux) in latin Deus and so on.

The equivalent of God or Dieu in arabic is Illah, and that's why you have the Shahada "La Illah a Ila ALLAH"

Back to the point, Dajal is not from any faith he is a Satanist.
and the word Dajala in Arabic means to counterfeit or adulterate, gold or a precious metal, or in those days they used to adulterate camels and so on,
but in this context it means the false, fake, or the impostors.

If you look under the British "Shield coat of arms" it says in french Dieu et mon droit meaning "God and my Right.

Dajal will have super powers and a lot of people will follow him, but they will be deceived by him.

Anything he brings, shows or performs will be the opposite of their natural order.
if he shows you water it is in fact fire, if he shows you hell it's in fact the gardens of paradise and of course the reverse.

He will have the word Kafir across his forehead yes but only the true believers will see it, not everyone.

There are quiete a few things he will be performing and many people will be impressed and believe that he is the messiah.

Most Muslims pray to Allah not to be alive in that time, because it's considered the biggest tribulation (Fitna) of all time.

[scooby85]

A little correction here my friend if you don't mind of course, Dajal (Anti christ)
is not a Jew nor Christian, he is Satan worshiper, he will have some powers yes.


sorry man i meant his parents would be of the jewish faith, maybe a zionist jew, thats what i think anyway :s

[adbasque]

sorry man i meant his parents would be of the jewish faith, maybe a zionist jew, thats what i think anyway :s

Yes i understand, :)
Anyway Dajal is if we can call him lucifer's first "general"

[eternal_spirit]

sorry man i meant his parents would be of the jewish faith, maybe a zionist jew, thats what i think anyway :s


the anti christ will be of the jewish faith (zionist?), hes the false 'messiah' that they are waiting for. according to islam he will rule the world from jerusalem.
More likely a relative of your Mohammed.

[eternal_spirit]

[quote]i can garantee u that there are a few paid c*nts in here, whos job it is to defame islam.. Where do I apply for such a job? I could do with the money. I live in poverty in my own country, see you have a very expensive looking car on your profile, I cannot afford to run a car let alone buy one, how much money do you get a week? I take it you live in England

the bottom line is the ptb no that islam is the truth thats why they are working overtime to destroy it before it destroys them.. and if muslims in here start to explain more about their religion instead of ppl getting the wrong idea thru western media, u always get a couple (u no who u are) who will use the ms media/anti islamic sites to put up an arguement against islam.How many millions of Muslims would like to see the destruction of the white race (got a fatwa on me becasue I have German genes?) NOI states that the Germans and Americans will be the first of the whites to be destroyed.

Wrong! Most of my posts are from Islamic people and your Islamic Texts and Hadiths/Shariah which are considered divine by many Muslims.



iv even heard ppl in here say that 9/11 was orchstrated by muslim, muslims are evil, blood hungy etc the kind of stuff even a non muslim would ridicule. If i post a topic in here saying sumthing like 'a muslim saves a jew from drowning..' ur guna get paid idiots like eternal spirit saying oh they only done it so they can convert him and turn him into a suicide bomber or sumthing thats gota turn a positive point into a negative one where islam is concerned...911 you think it was da Jews, I'm undecided who was responsible.
STFU Islam has more negatives than positives. You are the brainwashed Islamic idiot who's in denial about your "death cult" called Islam.

there are so many posts in which i have made him (and others) look like complete fools and caught them blatently lieing (dont wory e.s im keeping a link for each of the times uv lied to prove to people that u are either a complete ignorant, a compulsive liar, some sort of agent or that u have been bum raped by a 'muslim' - explaining ur hatred for islam. u shud be priviledged, im going to be making a whole topic about u :)LOL still in denial that I have proved you a liar many times with the words of your fellow Muslims texts etc.


Bum raped? wtf you sicko.

Mohammed the peado a true Muslim follows Mohammeds examples.

I look forward to seeing your article about me, so I can lmfao at more islamic lies. :)

[eternal_spirit]

why attack islamic nations who oppose the zions? because they know islam is the truth and will destroy them in the end as prophesised, why does the illuminati have an eye as a symbol when islam told u 1400years ago that the antichrist will also have one eye? on the dajjals head will be the letters KFR (kafir) have u seen israels new military sect called.. the kafr brigade and guess what all those planes have that one eye on them too.


There are also Muslim Zionists. Islam is a lie. Kaffirs same as Goyim you have alot in common with the Talmud of Judaism, you are of the same seed Abraham, Babylon, Egypt, Arabia all connected (the roots of the Babylonian Brotherhood) and Freemasonry.
we were also told that in the end battle an army of muslims (poss iran) will join forces with a christian army from the north (poss russia) to take on the dajjals army, which the muslim and christians will win then these two battle it out and islam will reign over the world. jesus will then breeak the cross confirming the truthood of islam.

Jihad on the Kaffirs (death to us none Muslims) Like I've been saying all along Islams plan has always been to convert and rule over a totally Islamic World, now we have more confirmation of this from the so called nice moderate Muslim :rolleyes:Scooby doo. (get real we aint gonna let it happen man you are living in cartoon land)

most of these prophesises have come true and only a fool would think the rest of the prophesesies will not follow... love it or hate it theres no denying that islam is the truth..
Only a bigger fool would want this to happen.

if someone followed islam to a tee u can bet ur last dollar that that person will be a good natured/kind/courteous person (to all mankind not just muslims) who abstains from all the evils of this world, the handy work of satan i.e adultery/stealing/lieing/deception/porn/drugs/materialism/taking monetary interests etc now im struggling to see how muslims like that are so bad, if everyone was a muslim u can start too see how nice this world would be to live in. the ptb want everyone to be exactly like the opposites of a muslim for a reason..
True Islam - genital mutilation all round for boys and girls, beheading, stoning for adultery, whipping cutting off of hands and feet for petty crimes, hypocritical homo sexuals bumming the ass of boys, Opium growers, white slave girls used as sex slaves.

just listening to this little verse from the quran proves its gods words, to me anyway:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sboAvcn4_MU&fmt=18
and u can listen to it, it wont kill u :)
STFU no but Islam will try kill us kaffirs.

[arten]

STFU no but Islam will try kill us kaffirs.

All religions are designed to kill someone the nutters of Islam today are no different to the nutters from Christendom during the crusades.
I was talking to a Muslim friend the other day and she pointed out to me that Sunni/Sharia sects/divisions only apply in the ME.

[scooby85]

More likely a relative of your Mohammed.

u reli are a bellend im not even guna bother replying to u, u aint worth the effort.. try learning things with an open mind that god has given u insted of relying on bullshit websites for ur info, u honestly are so blind and one eyed (excuse the pun) when it comes to islam ur a joke

[eternal_spirit]

u reli are a bellend im not even guna bother replying to u, u aint worth the effort.. try learning things with an open mind that god has given u insted of relying on bullshit websites for ur info, u honestly are so blind and one eyed (excuse the pun) when it comes to islam ur a joke

Ding ding end of round 3001

[scooby85]

How many millions of Muslims would like to see the destruction of the white race (got a fatwa on me becasue I have German genes?) NOI states that the Germans and Americans will be the first of the whites to be destroyed.

see what i mean when i say ur thick as shit? how can anyone take u seriously wen u come out with bullshit like this?? NO muslim would like to see the destruction of the white race and ur probably too ignorant to realise but there are many white muslims in the world. So u trying to say that islam is a religion based on skin colour? cos thats what it sounds like..


Wrong! Most of my posts are from Islamic people and your Islamic Texts and Hadiths/Shariah which are considered divine by many Muslims.

erm i havnt come across any i dont think oh and dont use 'islamic texts/people' apart from the sahi bukhari hadiths and the quran. and hadith is now divine is it? stupid uneducated wan*er.



911 you think it was da Jews, I'm undecided who was responsible.
STFU Islam has more negatives than positives. You are the brainwashed Islamic idiot who's in denial about your "death cult" called Islam.
haha u funny cu*t... yes islam does have more negatives than positives...if ur someone whos in love with this material world as it will stop u having satanic 'fun' i.e adultery/drinking/drugs etc and im brain washed? yeh ok.. I CHOSE islam out of my own FREE will NO one forced me, do you u n d e r s t a n d?

Bum raped? wtf you sicko.
well the hatred comes from somewhere and its not just about u not liking islam, ur problems must be more deep rooted, well at least it seems that way neway
Mohammed the peado a true Muslim follows Mohammeds examples.

the thickos at it again.. LEARN the definition of a paedophile then come back and who the fuck says 14 is paedophilia? the government? oh it must be then :rolleyes: i can bet u that sumwhere down ur generation one of ur forefathers married a girl younger than 14 he a paedo? Aisha was 9 at engagement and the marriage was not consummated until she was 14. what if the government tommorow raises the age os consent for girls to 30 does that mean ur a paedo for shagging a 17 year old? girls go thru puberty for a reason, its nature tellin u shes ready not the flamin govt. seriously man if u had half a brain cell ud be dangerous

[scooby85]

STFU no but Islam will try kill us kaffirs.


u got alot of learning to do.. kaffir is NOT a non muslim, it is someone who denies god outright. a jew/christian they are not kaffirs. so it looks like the 'jihad' only applies to a few million people who are actively trying to destroy islam, like u, and not the whole world. if a jew/christian does not convert to islam after a muslim has explained the religion to him, its our (muslim) duty to say to him 'bear witness that im a muslim' and thats all, no killing etc sorry to disapoint u. allah even says if u dont believe in all the messengers at least believe in the oneness of god.. see how beautiful this religion is wen u take out the westernised media version of the religion?

u got a short life in this world and u aint guna live forever, ur guna go back to the creator who made u so if u want to mock his way of life then do so but just remember u will return to the lord, theres no escaping that..

[eternal_spirit]

see what i mean when i say ur thick as shit? how can anyone take u seriously wen u come out with bullshit like this?? NO muslim would like to see the destruction of the white race and ur probably too ignorant to realise but there are many white muslims in the world. So u trying to say that islam is a religion based on skin colour? cos thats what it sounds like..


erm i havnt come across any i dont think oh and dont use 'islamic texts/people' apart from the sahi bukhari hadiths and the quran. and hadith is now divine is it? stupid uneducated wan*er.




haha u funny cu*t... yes islam does have more negatives than positives...if ur someone whos in love with this material world as it will stop u having satanic 'fun' i.e adultery/drinking/drugs etc and im brain washed? yeh ok.. I CHOSE islam out of my own FREE will NO one forced me, do you u n d e r s t a n d?


well the hatred comes from somewhere and its not just about u not liking islam, ur problems must be more deep rooted, well at least it seems that way neway


the thickos at it again.. LEARN the definition of a paedophile then come back and who the fuck says 14 is paedophilia? the government? oh it must be then :rolleyes: i can bet u that sumwhere down ur generation one of ur forefathers married a girl younger than 14 he a paedo? Aisha was 9 at engagement and the marriage was not consummated until she was 14. what if the government tommorow raises the age os consent for girls to 30 does that mean ur a paedo for shagging a 17 year old? girls go thru puberty for a reason, its nature tellin u shes ready not the flamin govt. seriously man if u had half a brain cell ud be dangerous
Been through all this before
so you can quit with the same lies
You're so dumb you don't even realise your own contradictions, been down the mosque too long, 5 prayers a day must of have frazzled your brains or down the pub?

I think you dropped something out your mind onto the keyboard














http://whoyoucallingaskeptic.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/bullshit.jpg


worth two pics scoobs
lot's of number 2s
http://www.ambrosiasw.com/%7Eandrew/funny/bullshit.jpg

[scooby85]

so same as usual then, not answering any of my points instead just trying to brush it off

and other users i apologise for swearing but this clown does my nut it.

which twat says You're so dumb you don't even realise your own contradictions yet doesnt actually mention where i contradicted myself! :D classik

and iv lied? where, prove it? everyone reading this topic can see who lied as iv proved it and u aint and judging my ur posts its not me whos got a frazzled brain! was it the humble pie?

[recon]

STFU no but Islam will try kill us kaffirs.

If Islam truly endorses such an act, why haven't the 1,000,000,000-plus Muslims gone on a killing spree yet?

Sure there are some violent acts, but there's always a bad egg in every community.




Also 9/11 was an inside Job.

[lhaull]

Follower of Cheddar: I feel validated because cheddar is better than Edam and Edam is Evil.

Follower of Edam: Noooo I'm right because Edam is true cheese.

Follower of Cheddar: No Edam kills you because that waxy shit they wrap it in can get stuck in your throat if you forget to remove it.

Follower of Edam: Only an Idiot would eat the wax! Which proves you're an idiot and therefor I am right and you are wrong and that Edam is best

Follower of Chedder: Chedder was here long before you Edam lot turned up. Cheddar is the only one true cheese.

Follower of Stilton: Erm, hello what about us?

Followers of Edam and Cheddar: You guys stink, piss off.


Get the picture???

[adbasque]

so same as usual then, not answering any of my points instead just trying to brush it off

and other users i apologise for swearing but this clown does my nut it.

which twat says yet doesnt actually mention where i contradicted myself! :D classik

and iv lied? where, prove it? everyone reading this topic can see who lied as iv proved it and u aint and judging my ur posts its not me whos got a frazzled brain! was it the humble pie?

I wouldn't waste my time, honestly.
I don't know if you'd seen this on BBC

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00j6ll4

Take a look

[adbasque]

This is the biggest misconception in Islam, no doubt resulting from
the constant stereotyping and bashing the media gives Islam. When a
gunman attacks a mosque in the name of Judaism, a Catholic IRA

guerrilla sets off a bomb in an urban area, or Serbian Orthodox
militiamen rape and kill innocent Muslim civilians, these acts are not
used to stereotype an entire faith. Never are these acts attributed

to the religion of the perpetrators. Yet how many times have we heard
the words 'Islamic, Muslim fundamentalist. etc.' linked with violence.

Read More bellow

http://www.jannah.org/articles/misc.html

But people deliberately ignore these facts, they are just happy to stereotype Islam with any lie they can get their hands on.

I won't bother debating anymore, it's an absolute waste of time:

I guess this also to do with Islam

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1161109/On-duty-1-000-police-officers-guilty-crimes.html

Oh I forgot on the above link, we still live in democracy, and they are white people so it's ok :)

[eternal_spirit]

Scooby cannot debate without calling me names he's been at it for months, I chose freedom not religious dogma and rituals = bondage of the spirit and mind regardless of the name calling Peace to all :)

[scooby85]

Scooby cannot debate without calling me names he's been at it for months, I chose freedom not religious dogma and rituals = bondage of the spirit and mind regardless of the name calling Peace to all :)

so why is it only u (maybe a couple of others) i call names? it doesnt take a rocket scientists to see why and ur doing it again, u STILL aint answering me? debate my replies, show mw where i have contradicted myself as u say i have, show where i have lied like u said i did? ur all mouth ur a class a c*nt now feck off

[eternal_spirit]

so why is it only u (maybe a couple of others) i call names? it doesnt take a rocket scientists to see why and ur doing it again, u STILL aint answering me? debate my replies, show mw where i have contradicted myself as u say i have, show where i have lied like u said i did? ur all mouth ur a class a c*nt now feck off
Dude I've answered all your dumb questions before.

You're prob some juvenile Islamic delinquent, one of those who ran riot and trashed Towns not far from me in Lancashire.
Now go chill out have a bacon butty, a nice piece of gammon or a leg of ham and a few pints of Guinness.
With a bit of luck you'll go to Mecca and they'll have no internet and you won't come back.

[scooby85]

Scooby cannot debate without calling me names he's been at it for months, I chose freedom not religious dogma and rituals = bondage of the spirit and mind regardless of the name calling Peace to all :)

so why is it only u (maybe a couple of others) i call names? it doesnt take a rocket scientists to see why and ur doing it again, u STILL aint answering me? debate my replies, show mw where i have contradicted myself as u say i have, show where i have lied like u said i did? ur all mouth ur a class a c*nt now feck off

and we'll see how ur religious 'freedom' saves u when u die,

[picha]

see what i mean when i say ur thick as shit? how can anyone take u seriously wen u come out with bullshit like this?? NO muslim would like to see the destruction of the white race and ur probably too ignorant to realise but there are many white muslims in the world. So u trying to say that islam is a religion based on skin colour? cos thats what it sounds like..


erm i havnt come across any i dont think oh and dont use 'islamic texts/people' apart from the sahi bukhari hadiths and the quran. and hadith is now divine is it? stupid uneducated wan*er.




haha u funny cu*t... yes islam does have more negatives than positives...if ur someone whos in love with this material world as it will stop u having satanic 'fun' i.e adultery/drinking/drugs etc and im brain washed? yeh ok.. I CHOSE islam out of my own FREE will NO one forced me, do you u n d e r s t a n d?


well the hatred comes from somewhere and its not just about u not liking islam, ur problems must be more deep rooted, well at least it seems that way neway


the thickos at it again.. LEARN the definition of a paedophile then come back and who the fuck says 14 is paedophilia? the government? oh it must be then :rolleyes: i can bet u that sumwhere down ur generation one of ur forefathers married a girl younger than 14 he a paedo? Aisha was 9 at engagement and the marriage was not consummated until she was 14. what if the government tommorow raises the age os consent for girls to 30 does that mean ur a paedo for shagging a 17 year old? girls go thru puberty for a reason, its nature tellin u shes ready not the flamin govt. seriously man if u had half a brain cell ud be dangerous

I think you will find she was actually only 6 when he married her and 9 when he 'consummated' the so called marriage.

[mephibosheth]

The Aisha topic is one that opponents of Islam love to bandy about. The thing is, Islam can't deny the young age of Aisha. People are shocked about the age. Well boo-hoo. I seriously doubt Aisha was the first or last girl to be married off at a very young age. The fact is Mohammed is not a peodophile. We need to remember that this was the last of his 12 or so wives, among whom were older and younger women, divorced women, and generally a rather intersting variety. There is, even in the Muslim community, still debate about Aisha's ages when betrothed and deflowered, based on various sources. The fact remains that marriage is, in part, based on the biological imperative--when a human body is ready for procreation, they are ready for marriage. We can't judge by our standards, with our infantile-obsessed culture that prizes and coddles 'youth' to ridiculous extremes. Children are just immature little human beings, not some special gold-plated angelic shades.

Aisha herself seems to have suffered no ill affects from her marriage, indeed, becoming a favoured companion of Mohammed, even to the extent of seeking to go to war with other Muslims in defense of Islam.

This is really a non-issue. If anyone has any substantial evidence that Islam permits peodophilia or that Mohammed habitually had sexual relations with underage girls, let's hear it.

[scooby85]

I think you will find she was actually only 6 when he married her and 9 when he 'consummated' the so called marriage.

here come the cavalary.. :rolleyes: no i think u will find she was 14, i no the websites u read probably says she was 2 but u no...

even though i dont agree with everything u say mephibosheth, u do make alot more sense than most of the clowns in here, uv got something they havnt and thats called a non-biased opinion and an open mind.

[scooby85]

oh and eternal spirit where the fook have ya gone?? please answer me and show me where i have lied and contradicted myself? pleeeeeeese :)

u cant cos u chat shit and thats now a fact, u do it everytime, u call me a liar then i ask u to point out where i have lied, which u cant do.. all mouth

[scooby85]

Dude I've answered all your dumb questions before.

You're prob some juvenile Islamic delinquent, one of those who ran riot and trashed Towns not far from me in Lancashire.
Now go chill out have a bacon butty, a nice piece of gammon or a leg of ham and a few pints of Guinness.
With a bit of luck you'll go to Mecca and they'll have no internet and you won't come back.

u have NEVER answered me... well do it now heres ur chance..

and no thanks id rather not eat dirty bacteria infested meat and destroy my liver with alcohol, u can tho, they do say u are wat u eat...

theres a reason why the creator has forbidden pork, he shud no wats good for his creation and pork aint:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mL_48wUQeXQ

i mean why the heck wud u want to eat an animal that rolls around in shit and eats shit??

[eternal_spirit]

u have NEVER answered me... well do it now heres ur chance..

and no thanks id rather not eat dirty bacteria infested meat and destroy my liver with alcohol, u can tho, they do say u are wat u eat...

theres a reason why the creator has forbidden pork, he shud no wats good for his creation and pork aint:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mL_48wUQeXQ
:p

I nipped out to the Indian shop for rizzla and stuff... then got a veggie take away from the Indian place.

Got home drank coffee and smoked Moroccan hash. I've been doing all this for many years.

Am I turning Muslim?

[lottie]

:p

I nipped out to the Indian shop for rizzla and stuff... then got a veggie take away from the Indian place.

Got home drank coffee and smoked Moroccan hash. I've been doing all this for many years.

Am I turning Muslim?

Me thinks one doth protest FAR too much...!!! :D:p

[adbasque]

I think you will find she was actually only 6 when he married her and 9 when he 'consummated' the so called marriage.

No he married her when she was in her cradle and consumated the marriage when she could barely walk, she couldn't even talk, she was still a baby :)

I don't think he could've waited until she was 9 :)

he didn't rape his daughter for 24 years and had 7 children with her and killed one of them.
Oh I forgot he is not Muslim he is just "bad" Austrian, nothing to do with him being born a Christian, but when a person is called Mohamed even if he's an atheist the whole of Islam and Muslims that take the blame :)

he married her at 9 and consumated the marriage at 11 years old, now if you want to accept it, good if not you can make add as much as you like, it won't change the truth and the facts.

Just in case you don't know, as I gathered through out this thread, 1400 years ago women reached puberty at a very young age, it was a normal thing.

And she accepted the marriage, she enjoyed the marriage, she lived very happy, very free, very strong, and she led battles, she ran her business, she had men working for her.

Any other woman in the entire world at that time had these freedoms?
the western woman didn't vote until late 1920s deal with it now :)
enough of this BS!!

[mephibosheth]

theres a reason why the creator has forbidden pork, he shud no wats good for his creation and pork aint:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mL_48wUQeXQ

i mean why the heck wud u want to eat an animal that rolls around in shit and eats shit??

Ahh, that's as much misinformation as anything, though. All raw meat has some kind of insects in it, to varying degrees. Even us people. Cooking kills them critters. Thats why no one eats raw pig.

The real reason that pork is avoided traditionally goes back to Atlantean times, when they bio-engineered swine to exist as a substitute for human flesh, which they had developed an unholy taste for. So rather than mixing up more soylent green, they genetically engineered the pig from human DNA (and a mix of others). Thus pigs have a human-type look, even human-type intelligence, and, according to cannibals, pork and long-pork are remarkable alike in taste.

We tend to have reserve about harming that which is most like us. We have no qualms about eating cows or goats or chickens, because they are so little like us. But pigs, they are a lot like us, and thus, our consumption of them is practically cannibalistic. There's basically no good reason why religion sometimes prohibits consumption of one or another animal. This Atlantean theory about the genetic heritage of swine is the most reasonable I'm seen, even if it seems a little far out.

8)

[mephibosheth]

Got home drank coffee and smoked Moroccan hash. I've been doing all this for many years.

Am I turning Muslim?


Sure, except smoking intoxicants is haraam for Muslims.

[major seven]

Ahh, that's as much misinformation as anything, though. All raw meat has some kind of insects in it, to varying degrees. Even us people. Cooking kills them critters. Thats why no one eats raw pig.

The real reason that pork is avoided traditionally goes back to Atlantean times, when they bio-engineered swine to exist as a substitute for human flesh, which they had developed an unholy taste for. So rather than mixing up more soylent green, they genetically engineered the pig from human DNA (and a mix of others). Thus pigs have a human-type look, even human-type intelligence, and, according to cannibals, pork and long-pork are remarkable alike in taste.

We tend to have reserve about harming that which is most like us. We have no qualms about eating cows or goats or chickens, because they are so little like us. But pigs, they are a lot like us, and thus, our consumption of them is practically cannibalistic. There's basically no good reason why religion sometimes prohibits consumption of one or another animal. This Atlantean theory about the genetic heritage of swine is the most reasonable I'm seen, even if it seems a little far out.

8)


LOL!!!:D
I'll bet Scooby didn't see that one coming. :)

Ive heard that too. Instead of saying the usual, "It Tastes Like Chicken", cannibles usually insist on saying, "It Tastes Like Pork".

Interesting!
It might give new meaning to whatever happened to Jimmy Hofa, or more specifically; What resaurant served Jimmy Hofa? LOL!!!
Best guess maybe a barbeque outfit like Tony Romas? :)

[adbasque]

LOL!!!:D
I'll bet Scooby didn't see that one coming. :)

Ive heard that too. Instead of saying the usual, "It Tastes Like Chicken", cannibles usually insist on saying, "It Tastes Like Pork".

Interesting!
It might give new meaning to whatever happened to Jimmy Hofa, or more specifically; What resaurant served Jimmy Hofa? LOL!!!
Best guess maybe a barbeque outfit like Tony Romas? :)

It's amazing how reality is perverted, while myths take a proportionate volume and existence.

If anyone cares to link the Atlantean myth and conspiracy to the Royal bloodlines of today, take it from Charlemagne the King of the Frank and King Edward the III.

And the whole of the NWO machine, and yet people are trying to make a reality out of a myth, No evidence whatsoever.

People are prepared to believe in all sorts of wild things, but when it comes to believing in God that's a taboo it's a no no.

Anyway, unless someone presents me with refutable evidence this remains a myth like most Greek myths.

[mephibosheth]

Anyway, unless someone presents me with refutable evidence this remains a myth like most Greek myths.

Unfortunately, the 'evidence' will be the same as any evidence presented in favour of religion. It will be like, 'well look at all these x,y,z contingent facts; therefore, God!' But the link between the 'x,y,z' and 'God' is never 'irrefutable', usually not deductively sound, and often not even intuitive.

Consider the fact that pig organs can be successfully transplanted for use in humans. Unlike any other animal. That in itself, plus the anecdotal evidence of some religious taboos, is very interesting.

'God' is a myth to many people, just like Zeus. But today's myth is yesterday's fervent religion. We dismiss Zeus as 'mythical' only because the religion of the greeks has fallen out of favour and practice in our societies. There was a time when people built temples to Zeus, gave offerings, and consulted seers to find out what Zeus had to say. Now they do this for other gods or none at all.

Further, today's mythical characters are yesterday's real life heros seen through the dim glass of the ages. Jesus is the biggest myth circling around today. But his real-life counterpart/inspiration--if there was one--was probably a person who existed in some distant age unknown to today's history. In the future, no doubt people will worship Elvis, the ascended Venutian.

:eek:

[adbasque]

Unfortunately, the 'evidence' will be the same as any evidence presented in favour of religion.

There's a slight difference, with religion it doesn't just ask you to look at x,y,z there are ways of checking, as opposed to these myths, someone said.

no evidence to substantiate or to support any if these so called findings.

until today it remains nothing but a myth and according to some experts in the field, it is even pure creation of plato.

In religion there's more than evidence for me if a guy in the middle of a desert 1500 years ago, uneducated, meaning not been to school has said could not read nor write.

things that are happenning these days if that's not evidence I don't know what will convince people.

To the smallest detail, and not only that he has never left his land, and not only that most rich and owners of the Kaaba were against him, they even tried to kill him on many occasions.

Anyway if people would like to ignore the evidence presented in the religion that's their right.

Islam is more than just a religion it's an actual way of life, I don't want to go in further in the debate, it's simply is impossible to describe what is Islam and everything that it stands for.

And one last thing, most people who are converting to Islam are usually educated people, scientists and so on, and this is no lie, it's a fact.

I personally know at least 4 people, not impressed but it shows that people of science are the ones whom are attracted to Islam.

[mephibosheth]

There's a slight difference, with religion it doesn't just ask you to look at x,y,z there are ways of checking, as opposed to these myths, someone said.


There is absolutely no way of checking the veracity of the report that an angel sat in a cave with Mohammed and dictated the Quraan to him. Any evidence you present is entirely circumstantial, after the fact, and based on the premise that this event actually happened.



In religion there's more than evidence for me if a guy in the middle of a desert 1500 years ago, uneducated, meaning not been to school has said could not read nor write.


What evidence is there of this? How can we present evidence of a negative? This is just the popular story of Mohammed, a part of the Mohammed myth.

8)

[scooby85]

:p

I nipped out to the Indian shop for rizzla and stuff... then got a veggie take away from the Indian place.

Got home drank coffee and smoked Moroccan hash. I've been doing all this for many years.

Am I turning Muslim?

this is the 5th time im requesting u to copy and paste the parts in wich i have lied and contradicted myself like u said i did... all u do is jus write sum bullshit and completly ignore my request.. is it because u cant find any lies? thought so, this proves to everyone who the real liar is

[scooby85]

LOL!!!:D
I'll bet Scooby didn't see that one coming. :)



Ahh, that's as much misinformation as anything, though. All raw meat has some kind of insects in it, to varying degrees. Even us people. Cooking kills them critters. Thats why no one eats raw pig.

erm didnt see waht coming? some unproven atlantean theory? or the bit about all meats contain maggots?

yes of course meat has insects in it but my point was that pork has the most out of all meats, im not surprised seeing as they roll around and eat their own shit all day.

let me ask u something mesph.. out of beef, lamb, chicken, goat, pork... which is the dirtiest meat in terms of bacteria etc?

[mephibosheth]

let me ask u something mesph.. out of beef, lamb, chicken, goat, pork... which is the dirtiest meat in terms of bacteria etc?

I would say bison. But basically any 'wild' meat is more likely to contain higher levels of environmental toxins. Farmed animals might be 'cleaner', but then there's other problems associated with them too.

As for a comparison, I can't say for sure. I don't know. But it's safe to say that it's better for us to avoid meat altogether and go vegatarian!!

8)

[adbasque]

erm didnt see waht coming? some unproven atlantean theory? or the bit about all meats contain maggots?

yes of course meat has insects in it but my point was that pork has the most out of all meats, im not surprised seeing as they roll around and eat their own shit all day.

let me ask u something mesph.. out of beef, lamb, chicken, goat, pork... which is the dirtiest meat in terms of bacteria etc?

People are confusing the harmful with the friendly bacteria, even vegetables have bacteria, fruits, water, in that case we don't eat anything we don't drink anything.

Pork has not just the bad bacteria, also it is as you said the only animal that eats his own waste.
And not only that a pig is the closest to humans and mice.
So eating a pig is like partially eating a human, a cow, a bull, a goat are not at all the same as the pig.

Scientists know why you shouldn't eat pork, but if they say so, that means they'll agree with the religions, and they certainly don't want to do that.

Otherwise people would suddenly think humm that's why the religions forbids it's consumption.
You can add this one to the list of lies, and on the other hand, they try and discredit pork and the other meats.

You know the new thing now?
Fruiterians, they don't eat vegetables because vegies feel the pain when you cut them and cook them.

Soon they'll be eating airpies, breeze pies, how dumb can people go?
I promise you there are some idiots out there who don't eat nothing but fruits, who says the fruit don't feel a thing?

How stupid is that? lol
Unbelievable

[mephibosheth]

Soon they'll be eating airpies, breeze pies,


People already do this, to one degree or another.

http://home.iae.nl/users/lightnet/health/breatharianslinks.htm

Not to mention those who gain energy from the sun.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sungazing

It's not as 'dumb' as it sounds, although science is questioning whether it's possible or not. If we are, essentially, a spirit, then there doesn't seem to be any reason that we should kill and consume the flesh of other beings.


I promise you there are some idiots out there who don't eat nothing but fruits, who says the fruit don't feel a thing?


Because the fruit is the seed of the plant, essentially, not a limb of the plant. Eating fruit is like eating eggs; it's not a fully grown live plant, but it's container or shell.

8)

[adbasque]

People already do this, to one degree or another.

http://home.iae.nl/users/lightnet/health/breatharianslinks.htm

Not to mention those who gain energy from the sun.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sungazing

It's not as 'dumb' as it sounds, although science is questioning whether it's possible or not. If we are, essentially, a spirit, then there doesn't seem to be any reason that we should kill and consume the flesh of other beings.



Because the fruit is the seed of the plant, essentially, not a limb of the plant. Eating fruit is like eating eggs; it's not a fully grown live plant, but it's container or shell.

8)

Honetly I don't care what science says, even if it's possible, I was born this way, for thousands and thousands of years human beings lived that way, so I couldn't care less what the so called scientists are trying to prove.

I am sorry with all due respect, it is dumb it is stupid and ridiculous.
If anyone wants to live on grass and fruit, go right ahead, good more for me.

So long as they don't bloody impose it on me, It's ok by me, and if they don't want to eat at all it's even better.

Don't even try and convince me, even if it means I'll live another 100 years I am sorry, I'd rather enjoy life and live a short life, rather living a long boring life.

And then what's next, are they going to turn animals into eating fruits too?
like lions, tigers, etc..?
and stop the fish from eating one another?
They are trying to play god, God made this universe perfect, it doesn't need redoing, not a bunch of crazy lunatics are going to change everything human beings stood for.

We are spirits, yes but at the moment we reside inside this body that requires feeding, end of story.

Sorry, I strongly disagree with you here, I know it's a choice but it's a dumb choice, jumping in front of train is a choice as well but it's still a dumb choice.

What I am tired of is these people, attention seekers, they'll go to any legnth to get attention, if they say I am vegetarian, nan vegetarian lot of people are, so it's no big deal.

That is the truth, after all why should I care? lol

[mephibosheth]

Dietary requirements are not so obvious as you might expect. Just because people have been eating meat doesn't mean that they ought to eat meat or that the human body is designed to eat meat. People these days have all sorts of nutritional and digestive problems because of the meat-heavy diest we indulge in. So the tradition of meat-eating is no indication of its suitability for the human animal.


Don't even try and convince me, even if it means I'll live another 100 years I am sorry, I'd rather enjoy life and live a short life, rather living a long boring life.


Seems like a rather odd sentiment. what, you get all your excitement from eating meat? Who says vegatarians are boring or have a boring life? This is a non-sequitor if I ever heard one. If you really want a short interesting life I suggest taking up heroin and engaging in all manner of risky business.

Some say that meat-eating wasnt' prevelent until shortly before Noah's flood, when there was some fierce desolation and famine in the land. Adam and Eve were apparently fruitarians!

[rewind_bo]

[quote=scooby85;845562]Where do I apply for such a job? I could do with the money. I live in poverty in my own country, see you have a very expensive looking car on your profile, I cannot afford to run a car let alone buy one, how much money do you get a week? I take it you live in England

1. dont spend all day on the internet
2. Get a job

[adimon]

The only true Monotheistic religion seems to be Judaism. :eek:

Judaism was not even the first monotheism.

Read about Ahura Mazda and Zoroaster.