Fantastic Salvia Documentary

[metacomet]

For those psychonauts amongst us or those interested in the hubbub surrounding Salvia Divinorum - the legal and mind-bending trans-dimensional hallucinogenic plant which is sweeping the nation! ;)

Sacred weeds:Salvia divinorum pt.1/6 - YouTube

[ex sheep]

I am quite interested in this but going to to a bit of research first, can you recommend this plant.

[grachtengordel]

For those psychonauts amongst us or those interested in the hubbub surrounding Salvia Divinorum -

thanks for posting this, very interesting, i found a downloadable full length version on google video

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4829797616419921428

[gaff]

Cool Im gonna watch this tonight.

Have been reading the various threads on Salvia and doing other research into it, definately want to try it and was planning to.

Last weekend I had a shedload of cannabis from a bong ( never bonged before - i have smoked lots of joints which never really do much for me) and I went stellar, I mean, REALLY stellar - OOBE, I was in the stars, I was one with everything.

The most amazing experience of my life, i cant put it into words. Now im thinking first of all, surely that aint normal - just off weed?! I know different drugs affect different people different ways, but still...so now im unsure if i should be doing salvia if cannabis can do this to me.

Second of all, reflecting on my experience from last week, im questioning why it happened, is it because my mind has been conditioned into the whole Icke way of thinking - infinite conciousness, infinite love etc - or was it "Real" - I mean, it FEELS real, felt real, whatever.

Its definately changed me. I feel I KNOW that we are all infinate love and that this whole existence is simply a journey....just wasnt expecting this kinda thing when I toked that bong last week....I was expecting to get this kinda thing from Salvia!

[jahzel]

I am buying some Salvia as soon as I get paid. In fact, I already have some but it was given to me and I don't know how weak/strong it is. My guess is it's quite weak - it's dry and crumbly.

I did smoke some in a small pipe when I got it but it didn't really do much because it wasn’t the best of pipes - it was one of those credit-card sized pipes.

You need a bong really to smoke Salvia.

If it's amazing I will probably buy some Salvia plants because I predict that the Government will eventually outlaw its use because they are fascist motherfuckers who don’t want us all to have dimensional/other-worldly experiences.

They want us to remain attached to this 3rd dimension where they can control and manipulate us.

[metacomet]

I am quite interested in this but going to to a bit of research first, can you recommend this plant.
There are some pre-requesites in my opinion:

If you have previous experience with psychedelics and hallucinogens (not just cannabis).

If you are aware that the ego and physical reality is an illusion of the mind you will be less likely to panic or freak out when it dissolves on you. Even with that knowledge going in ego loss can be a powerful and frightening experience.

There will be no sense of 'you' and you will not remember your physical self or your life as you know it during a 'break through' experience... There is no 'safety net' if you break through, and your physical surroundings may literally disappear to you. To avoid having a break through on the first time take super small tests. Most people are ready to break through by the second try.

The feeling of being sucked into a vortex or turbine is a literal and physical sensation beyond description in it's intensity : you must be prepared for this or else you are likely to 'act it out' and spin around on the floor destroying your surroundings.

If you have any doubts as to your ability to handle ego loss - do not take Salvia :) Even upon coming back, when 'life' and the physical world feels like a powerful blessing of 'safety' you may still regret the experience.


If you understand that the trip is short and you will come back, sanity in tact, and are not afraid to drop out or lose the ego : You are ready for Salvia and I recommend it to you :)

[metacomet]

Now im thinking first of all, surely that aint normal - just off weed?! I know different drugs affect different people different ways, but still...

If you have low tolerance to cannabis it can cause out of body sensations. As a teen I would close my eyes and feel the 'rollercoaster' to such an extent that I threw up more than once. The astral body or 'soul' can be felt moving about and this is uncomfortable for alot of people. Namely people who dislike cannabis after trying it :p

If you enjoyed the experience of space-time melting or physical sensations of your energy body (intense buzzing) you might really dig Salvia. Just remember that the 'you' who experienced cannabis will not be there under Salvia. 'You' will be gone entirely during a breakthrough experience.


I am buying some Salvia as soon as I get paid. In fact, I already have some but it was given to me and I don't know how weak/strong it is. My guess is it's quite weak - it's dry and crumbly.


Don't smoke it under the assumption that it's weak. If you do test it, assume that it's incredibly powerful. If it lets you down consider yourself lucky :p


They want us to remain attached to this 3rd dimension where they can control and manipulate us.

'They' have counterparts in the other dimensions as well. These are the omni-beings who stare at you during the experience. There presence is sometimes felt. They are not always 'happy' that you've opened this forbidden door. Yes they would most definitely prefer you stay in the physical.

There are however other entities of consciousness that may cheer you on or rejoice upon your breaking through. This is incredibly hard to explain, but they were with you before you were born and will be waiting for you when you die.

[metacomet]

One more thing: There is a huge difference between plain salvia leaf and extract.

Extract is more popular obviously. Alot of people who experiment with leaf claim Salvia doesn't even 'work' :rolleyes: However as the documentary shows, leafs DO work.

There is a portion of the population which claims Salvia doesn't affect their brain chemistry whatsoever - even with powerful extract. Sucks to be them.

[metacomet]

For a weak comparison to the intensity of a breakthrough experience (yes, I said weak comparison) watch this:

Jodie Foster's mystical flight (Contact) - YouTube

The only parts that are similar are the warping of the inside of the craft. You will not have calm, clear visions of the beach or anything like that :) Instead you will fall through many dimensions at a rapid pace and might have trouble bringing memories back. Remember in Contact when they played the tape recorded from her headset? It was blank for a reason. You cannot record other dimensions with an object in this dimension. Your physical brain is no different.

[bulgariaole]

god this all sounds awsome, i just started smoking weed like 2 weeks ago, and ive only done it 3 times sence. i dont know anything about salvia but a friend of mine is looking for dmt, its dounds pretty simular to salvia....
anybody have any experiance with it?

[gaff]

The astral body or 'soul' can be felt moving about

If you enjoyed the experience of space-time melting or physical sensations of your energy body (intense buzzing) you might really dig Salvia

Thats EXACTLY what I experienced (amongst other things), it was awesome.

[itsallundercontrol]

where can i get it?

never come across it before

[dmt head]

Seen that documentary years ago, really cool, all the sacred weeds documentarys are good. Really like the blue lily one, that was funny but ive never had any success with it. Should check out all that series :cool:

Chewing salvia has never worked for me, slight noticable effects but thats all, wheras my friend who chewed the same amount got a strong trip. He has tried the extracts unlike me, well I did a few times actually but it was never very strong, but other people would get strong effects.

I really hope salvia does work as my plant is growing out of control, its amazing. I chewed 16 leaves last week and got barely noticable effects, though it could be placebo :confused: They werent all large but when I have the time im going to chew 20 large fresh leaves, theres a lot of negativity surrounding salvia extracts and even smoking salvia. I enjoy smokign the leaves though as they can be enjoyable but again not strong.

A friend of mines says maybe packing 2-3 grams of crushed dried leaves into a hooka or a similiar device and trying to smoke a lot should give strong effects.

[beldazar]

where can i get it?

never come across it before


If there is a town near you selling bb guns, vibrators and legal drugs perhaps in there? ;)

[thorleyart]

There are some pre-requesites in my opinion:

If you have previous experience with psychedelics and hallucinogens (not just cannabis).

If you are aware that the ego and physical reality is an illusion of the mind you will be less likely to panic or freak out when it dissolves on you. Even with that knowledge going in ego loss can be a powerful and frightening experience.

There will be no sense of 'you' and you will not remember your physical self or your life as you know it during a 'break through' experience... There is no 'safety net' if you break through, and your physical surroundings may literally disappear to you. To avoid having a break through on the first time take super small tests. Most people are ready to break through by the second try.

The feeling of being sucked into a vortex or turbine is a literal and physical sensation beyond description in it's intensity : you must be prepared for this or else you are likely to 'act it out' and spin around on the floor destroying your surroundings.

If you have any doubts as to your ability to handle ego loss - do not take Salvia :) Even upon coming back, when 'life' and the physical world feels like a powerful blessing of 'safety' you may still regret the experience.


If you understand that the trip is short and you will come back, sanity in tact, and are not afraid to drop out or lose the ego : You are ready for Salvia and I recommend it to you :)

i think that is a pretty acurate description of likely effects!

I had a massive hit on it whilst sat on a couch. It then felt like a grid came out of the chair from all around me and covered me, it then changed into 100's of hands which came from the chair and grabbed hold of me and pulled me into it.

Physical reality is an illusion created by our minds. Our bodies, our egos, and the environments we exist in are also illusions. Salvia melts all this in an indescribable way and its pretty fucking ridiculas!!

[whiterain]

aaaah not the hands. i hate being tickled...... most of the time :p

[metacomet]

For a weak comparison to the intensity of a breakthrough experience (yes, I said weak comparison) watch this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZhvBkrq6rU


And for a really strongcomparison, you can watch this :

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.



Although the breakthrough experience in Salvia has alot less darkness to it... all of the golden scenes are ... precise.

[grachtengordel]

thanks for posting this, very interesting, i found a downloadable full length version on google video

www.video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4829797616419921428

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4829797616419921428

quoting to make link visible

Driving On Salvia

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nyv21qW7SQo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nyv21qW7SQo

[phemohilia]

And for a really strongcomparison, you can watch this :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJ42SqtLlLE



Although the breakthrough experience in Salvia has alot less darkness to it... all of the golden scenes are ... precise.




I own that movie (Renegade a.k.a. "Blueberry") and it is awesome!!!

[ekim]

There are some pre-requesites in my opinion:

If you have previous experience with psychedelics and hallucinogens (not just cannabis).

If you are aware that the ego and physical reality is an illusion of the mind you will be less likely to panic or freak out when it dissolves on you. Even with that knowledge going in ego loss can be a powerful and frightening experience.

There will be no sense of 'you' and you will not remember your physical self or your life as you know it during a 'break through' experience... There is no 'safety net' if you break through, and your physical surroundings may literally disappear to you. To avoid having a break through on the first time take super small tests. Most people are ready to break through by the second try.

The feeling of being sucked into a vortex or turbine is a literal and physical sensation beyond description in it's intensity : you must be prepared for this or else you are likely to 'act it out' and spin around on the floor destroying your surroundings.

If you have any doubts as to your ability to handle ego loss - do not take Salvia :) Even upon coming back, when 'life' and the physical world feels like a powerful blessing of 'safety' you may still regret the experience.


If you understand that the trip is short and you will come back, sanity in tact, and are not afraid to drop out or lose the ego : You are ready for Salvia and I recommend it to you :)

The first time I took salvia was, as I kept repeating, fucked up. I didn't go through with the experience fully, I stopped the trip right before I was to break through.

This experience in itself was a great lesson for me, a lesson of strength and will of mind. I have always been good at keeping my mind from following fear, have seen some "scarry" things on lsd and shrooms but never felt the fear that others around me did. I know I am ready for salvia as I proved to myself how strong my mind can be. I will describe my first time...

I packed the bowl of my pipe, like the guy I bought it from suggested, and took the whole thing in one hit. I held in the smoke for a few seconds and exhaled. The first thought I had was "ok, now what?", well in an insant I got my answer. I felt it coming on like it was a vortex pulling me in, lightly at first and then intensifying. My perception started to change, and I felt a great awareness, I not only knew but felt, with all my being, that everything is an illusion(this is all before I had even begun to cross over). My focus then became zoned in on a very colourful south american blanket I have and my living room. I had this feeling that I was in a book, I could see the pages and spine, it was made of the colours of my blanket, and the room seemed to become very long, like it was a very long book I was in. Then I had the strangest feeling, I felt the book being closed, and I could feel it closing on me. I saw and felt myself bending over and instantly I knew what was happening, I was leaving my body. Well I guess I didn't feel I was quite ready yet and fought myself leaving my body. I forced myself to stand up, which felt very strange, walked a few feet to the entrance to my kitchen and tried to get grounded. It felt like if I took another step into the kitchen that I would walk into another dimension. I force my way through that and next thing I know I'm outside smoking an unlit cig chanting "that was fucked up" over and over. I felt a strange high for about 20 minutes afterwards then went to bed. :D

Now to me that was pretty intense considering I didn't even leave my body and go through with the whole trip.

I have decided to work out within myself a very clear intent as to what I want this amazing plant to teach me for the next time I try it, and I want to experiment with salvia and different intentions. I think I still have enough for 5 or 6 experiments.

I am becoming interested in entheogens a lot more these days, as I quit experimenting with them years ago(perhaps sub-consciously because I knew I was not using them to gain knowledge, only for recreation, although I did gain a certain amount of knowledge anyways) and now I feel I have a much better understanding and could learn from certain plants(I want to stay away from synthetics).

This is an excellent book containing mainly personal experiences:
Amazon.com: In Search of the Ultimate High (9780712670876): Nicholas Saunders, Anja Saunders, Michelle Pauli: Books@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41EC6Z7VX2L.@@AMEPARAM@@41EC6Z7VX2L

A small bit of the book:
http://csp.org/nicholas/extract4.html

A little bit about the book:
http://csp.org/nicholas/spiritualindex.html

[grachtengordel]

thanks for posting this, very interesting, i found a downloadable full length version on google video

www.video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4829797616419921428

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4829797616419921428quoting to make link visible

Driving On Salvia
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nyv21qW7SQo

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nyv21qW7SQo





RE quoting to make quoted links visible

[chris]

Watching...

[chris]

Just finished...Pretty boring doc, I've not tried Salvia as I'm not really interested in it as it seems pretty much like all the other psychedelics which are just a few weird things, flashing lights (if your lucky) and then a headache.

Doing it naturally is the way to go.

[darryl84]

This was a good watch, john couldn't get his left brain around the information! lol

[dmt head]

Just finished...Pretty boring doc, I've not tried Salvia as I'm not really interested in it as it seems pretty much like all the other psychedelics which are just a few weird things, flashing lights (if your lucky) and then a headache.

Doing it naturally is the way to go.

For you yes, for others its more easily repeatable, an almost guarantee, something to work with. Unless maybe you havent had any decent shit? lol psychedelics are keys to the universe/reality, much more than just some pretty colours. Doing it naturally is a path, but its one of many and for me and millions of others its the way to go, for me I could never get far with meditation/fasting whatever I just dont have the patience. doesnt mean im wrong or your right, I might be lazy but time I dont have, people into meditation seem to try to lord it over people into psychs ive found and I do get the impression that people into meditation seem to exagerrate their claims. Not saying anything to you mate, im just saying. Their is no set way only your own path! Good luck!

[chris]

For you yes, for others its more easily repeatable, an almost guarantee, something to work with. Unless maybe you havent had any decent shit? lol psychedelics are keys to the universe/reality, much more than just some pretty colours. Doing it naturally is a path, but its one of many and for me and millions of others its the way to go, for me I could never get far with meditation/fasting whatever I just dont have the patience. doesnt mean im wrong or your right, I might be lazy but time I dont have, people into meditation seem to try to lord it over people into psychs ive found and I do get the impression that people into meditation seem to exagerrate their claims. Not saying anything to you mate, im just saying. Their is no set way only your own path! Good luck!

Well the reality is that no person on Psychedelics has been able to increase their intelligence or mental capacities while natural ways have been proven to rewire the neural networks of their brain and practitioners are able to vastly increase gammar wave activity naturally occuring and spread the gammarwave activity while meditating (gammar associated with higher brain function). Many practitioners are also able attain oneness which is a common experience in hallucinogenic and from my own experience, you are no longer 'tripping' you get visions with meaning, not some buzzing and then some undiscernable images of no value but images of high clarity.

I don't dispute that Hallucinogenic compounds aren't fun. I enjoy doing them but to me they have totally lost their spiritual overtone which I used to attribute to them.

As for exaggerating claims, I've found that it's the opposite to be true where people think they will soon become superman after years of mushroom taking. If that were true then McKenna would have been our next prophet but he actually was really slow and obviously stupid before he died of a brain tumour.

So I am glad that you grant that being natural might be the way for me but I decline to offer you the same because I don't believe anyone will evolve through psychedelics outside the time they are tripping.

[ekim]

Just finished...Pretty boring doc, I've not tried Salvia as I'm not really interested in it as it seems pretty much like all the other psychedelics which are just a few weird things, flashing lights (if your lucky) and then a headache.

Doing it naturally is the way to go.

How many times have I heard that? :rolleyes: "wierd things, flashing lights and a headache", what have you been doing? If that is your view from psychedelics you have missed the point.

As for exaggerating claims, I've found that it's the opposite to be true where people think they will soon become superman after years of mushroom taking. If that were true then McKenna would have been our next prophet but he actually was really slow and obviously stupid before he died of a brain tumour.

These plants/compounds are not meant to make you superman, only to show you that there is more to this world than what we have been programmed to see and believe. Even great shamans/medicine men/women know the importance of these tools, as do they know that there is no real need for them either. You don't need a hammer to pound a nail but it sure makes it easier.

I look at these tools as practical guides, and like any guide, it can become part of you and you don't need to actually use the guides at some point.

To each is own chris, but you show alot of ignorance in the first quote above, perhaps you should research both side more.

[chris]

How many times have I heard that? :rolleyes: "wierd things, flashing lights and a headache", what have you been doing? If that is your view from psychedelics you have missed the point.

Well basically from Mushrooms/LSD & DMT and other more minimal highs...

It wasn't my viewpoint of them at the time but now in retrospect it has become my point. If the old forum was still here I could probably point out many posts of mine very similar to the ones here.

In a word, I now think they are so overrated.

These plants/compounds are not meant to make you superman, only to show you that there is more to this world than what we have been programmed to see and believe.

I agree that if some person has been 'living the life' all his life and then can't understand how he got there, these drugs may be eye opening for him. But I'm not really talking about getting depressed people back on their feet, I'm more interested in personal evolution.

Even great shamans/medicine men/women know the importance of these tools, as do they know that there is no real need for them either. You don't need a hammer to pound a nail but it sure makes it easier.

By that analogy you make out that they are a crucial tool such as a hammer is a crucial tool to a nail. I disagree with this. A better analogy I would give is that you don't need a picture of a hammer to hammer in a nail.

I look at these tools as practical guides, and like any guide, it can become part of you and you don't need to actually use the guides at some point.

To each is own chris, but you show alot of ignorance in the first quote above, perhaps you should research both side more.

I love how everytime you bash hallucinogens you are basically belittled by being called ignorant on the subject or people try to invoke some kind of dick measuring contest on previous drug use. It is as though eating a few ounces of mushrooms is a difficult thing, it's actually the easiest thing in the world, why do people automatically command respect from others just because they've taken an acid hit? I try to stay away from these kinds of debates because they are just so childish.

[ekim]

I love how everytime you bash hallucinogens you are basically belittled by being called ignorant on the subject or people try to invoke some kind of dick measuring contest on previous drug use. It is as though eating a few ounces of mushrooms is a difficult thing, it's actually the easiest thing in the world, why do people automatically command respect from others just because they've taken an acid hit? I try to stay away from these kinds of debates because they are just so childish.

I figured you would have such a response.

I was not commanding respect for anything.

I used to do shrooms and acid, and yes they are easy to take, but not so easy to learn from. I came to the conclusion years ago that I needed to learn more about myself and the nature of these things before I could learn from them.

As for the hammer, I never said it was a crucial to use to pound a nail, one could use a rock, a shovel, an axe, hell if you have the mind you can use that too.

You are easily offended chris.

[kedz]

thanks, i hadn't seen that before... thought it was ok, but it was presented in a strange way and not enough known on the plant obviously by the content and approach to how it was produced and who made it etc.. but i enjoyed watching it.

funny comments from chris, i am sure you have strong opinions by reading these posts but feel you have missed the points with these plants and what they can offer us and have been offering us through our evolution on this planet. It's through these times, i believe we have to re~connect with them. obviously only my opinion mind...

the master plants are very complex and all offer different experiences and can help/heal in different ways... i also believe that it's what we can learn from these experiences and how we intergrate them in our every day lifes, is what is important..

[chris]

Well people keep telling me that I'm missing the point and I keep having to say that I was of exactly the same opinion as you people 5 years ago...

[kedz]

chris, just to probe your thought process a little bit, (hope you don't mind mate) what type of opinion did you have years ago on psychedlics.? whats your thoughts on ayahuasca presently and back then?
why do you think mckenna was stupid before his death..? Bit of a brash statement really considering none of us here knew mckenna (unless some do?), only knew him from his talks, lectures and videos...

i don't think they're a tool for inteligence... but tools for learning about our own life and species as a whole.. the questions still remain about why theses plants offer us this experience.. why psilocibin is almost identical in chemical structure to seritonin and therefore our nervous system is already prepared for it. Why dmt exsists in us and animals and plants..?
the evidence left behind by previous civilisations of the use of these substances and many other plants.
The big question for me, is why in the last few hundred years, we've stopped using these plants..
what benefit we would all have if we had them legally at our fingertips for exploration..?

[dmt head]

Well the reality is that no person on Psychedelics has been able to increase their intelligence or mental capacities while natural ways have been proven to rewire the neural networks of their brain and practitioners are able to vastly increase gammar wave activity naturally occuring and spread the gammarwave activity while meditating (gammar associated with higher brain function). Many practitioners are also able attain oneness which is a common experience in hallucinogenic and from my own experience, you are no longer 'tripping' you get visions with meaning, not some buzzing and then some undiscernable images of no value but images of high clarity.

I don't dispute that Hallucinogenic compounds aren't fun. I enjoy doing them but to me they have totally lost their spiritual overtone which I used to attribute to them.

As for exaggerating claims, I've found that it's the opposite to be true where people think they will soon become superman after years of mushroom taking. If that were true then McKenna would have been our next prophet but he actually was really slow and obviously stupid before he died of a brain tumour.

So I am glad that you grant that being natural might be the way for me but I decline to offer you the same because I don't believe anyone will evolve through psychedelics outside the time they are tripping.

To some people they are a lot more than just fun, actually sometimes they arent fun at all, they can be harsh teachers. And what is your definition of intelligence exactly? And what are you on about with mckenna and superman? Never heard of people thinking they are going to be superhuman after a heavy dose, maybe where you live, but seriously wtf you on about? :confused: And why was mckenna really slow? I saw his last taped interview and he was anything but slow? He was slow physically is that what you mean?

Ive evolved outside of my trip, wether you beleive that or not is your perogative. You mention people saying they can achieve oneness through meditation, how long would that take? I dont think they could achieve ego death, which again with psychs is a repeatable experience. I could dose myself now and I could annihilate my being, you cant possibly annihilate yourself with meditation and come to terms with death or be familiar with it the way you can with psychs. You couldnt willingly annihilate yourself, doesnt make sense.

I would love to hear your experiences with psychs and why youve formed this opinion now, because im not going stop dosing and trying to meditate, I dont have the patience, doesnt mean your superior, seem to get that a lot from people into meditation as if their threatened by the psychedelic experience, and anyway the dmt high is anything but minimal! Maybe your a hard head but I dont know how you can say that!

[chris]

chris, just to probe your thought process a little bit, (hope you don't mind mate) what type of opinion did you have years ago on psychedlics.? whats your thoughts on ayahuasca presently and back then?

Thank you for trying to get to know the reason why I hold this position and not just pass me off as an uninformed moralist that somehow gets outraged by this subject (I don't know why people try to make others out to be angry when in a debate but it's such a common tactic)...

Basically my thoughts were exactly like Bill Hicks, that being psychedelics were evolution accelorators.

bill hicks - evolution - YouTube

As for ayahuasca, the first time I did it, my friend and I both ate nothing but fruit for three days and then took the initial cup to offset the mao-inhibitors and then we took the ayahuasca...My friend projectile vomited but I held it in for a bit longer but eventually I vomited also. I did a bit of a Keith Moon on the amounts I used and it was far too potent.

Anyhow, we both meditated in my room and it took about 15 minutes before we started to get the traditional wet feeling and buzzing, I then laid down on my floor relaxing and I saw all around me tall grass growing, it wasn't the amazon jungle like so many report but just normal grass. I then thought I'd close my eyes and see if I could get any closed eye visuals...I didn't but then I decided to try a visualisation so I thought I'd start with something simple, the sun. I imagined the sun and it came to me extremely bright, I then increased it's luminesence greatly and then thought instead of picturing the sun, I'll just focus on the suns rays which all came out fast from the sun, these then turned into many retangular patterns as they were comign closer to me, they flashed by me getting ever more complicated. At this point my friend was pretty high as well and told me after he was getting something similar but in chinese symbols. I don't know how long these lasted because time seemed so transparant. Once we were able to get out senses about us, we went for a walk and I saw a lot of other stuff on the way, our communication was greatly increased and we were laughing at each others body language because it was just so advanced. It made average human body langauge seem on par with apes.

Obviously, you have many great revelations at the time, most of them not workable and you also get many interesting insights into your life and how you got to where you are. A problem which I isolated regarding the psychedelic experience is that you can dwell on these insights and they may not even have that much bearing on your life as it seemed, however I was already pretty experienced in psychonautical experiments at the time.

All in all, I do see them as useful in a psychological setting. Let's say if the psychologist uses them to show the patient that things aren't actually as important as they may seem. Although I do believe that the psychologist must accompany the patient in these journeys which could be bad for him in the long run.

I just don't see them as useful as far as long term evolution. They are vastly overrated, just because you get some visuals and have an experience.

why do you think mckenna was stupid before his death..? Bit of a brash statement really considering none of us here knew mckenna (unless some do?), only knew him from his talks, lectures and videos...

Well it is a bit of a brash statement and it's just my opinion but he seems pretty slow and not only when he's making thoughtful and profound statements (which aren't that profound to me)...I used to think this when I really sucked up to McKenna and the whole psychedelic community that seem to be more of a cult like hype machine.

I do respect McKenna because at least he took copious amounts of Mushrooms very often. So he at least puts his money where his mouth is, if I believed like many that these drugs fascilitate evolution, I would be taking them very often also. I always had my doubts though.

McKenna also said that taking mushrooms would be like a bit cleanout of your psyche, I've heard him make the comparison to defragging your head drive, clearing out cookies and excess files and emptying your recycle bin. This is pure bollocks to me, I've found it's actually the opposite and although you may feel this is what is happening, I have not been able to achieve higher states of meditation after a tripping session.

i don't think they're a tool for inteligence... but tools for learning about our own life and species as a whole..

Well if that is your true opinion and not your diplomatic one then your not in disagreement with me. It is quite a relegation from our fascilitators of our evolution to a psychiatric tool.

the questions still remain about why theses plants offer us this experience.. why psilocibin is almost identical in chemical structure to seritonin and therefore our nervous system is already prepared for it. Why dmt exsists in us and animals and plants..?
the evidence left behind by previous civilisations of the use of these substances and many other plants.
The big question for me, is why in the last few hundred years, we've stopped using these plants..
what benefit we would all have if we had them legally at our fingertips for exploration..?

Well jeez, that's a whole fucking lot of questions and I can't answer them all...However you get very similar molecules throughout plant and animals species, people don't worship the femanine and try to become women like simply because there are similar estrogen hormones in plants for example.

People forget that many animals also consume these plants and trip out but they haven't shown evolution due to them.

The reason why people have used them and always will because they produce and experiences, like DMTHEAD said, they produce and easy experience for lazy people.

I don't know why we give so much credit to sharmans, it is as though psychnauts revere them as much as regular people revere scientists. The fact is that when the sharmanic culture move onto higher spiritual studies, most of them drop them in preferance for natural paths.

What made me change my opinion was through alchemy, I was able to get real experiences rather than a mind blitz.

[chris]

To some people they are a lot more than just fun, actually sometimes they arent fun at all, they can be harsh teachers. And what is your definition of intelligence exactly?

Well granted, you can have shitty trips also, that doesn't improve them in my eyes. I see them as pretty much a spiritual gimmick for people that need a wham-bam-thankyou-man type of spirituality and yes, they will be suckers.

My definition of intelligence would be the speed in which their mind processes time.


And what are you on about with mckenna and superman? Never heard of people thinking they are going to be superhuman after a heavy dose, maybe where you live, but seriously wtf you on about? :confused: And why was mckenna really slow? I saw his last taped interview and he was anything but slow? He was slow physically is that what you mean?

Well I've pretty much answered that on my reply to Kedz.

Ive evolved outside of my trip, wether you beleive that or not is your perogative.

No, I absolutely believe you. However for long term you need something which will give a steady stream of improvement rather than something that will give diminishing returns and ultimately will be bad for your mind and health.

You mention people saying they can achieve oneness through meditation, how long would that take?

Not long, I'm not one of those Hindus that believes they've got to meditate for thousands of incarnations before they can achieve any state of samadhi. In fact it's more of a skill and the reason why they don't achieve results for a long time is that they don't teach the necessary skills needed.


I dont think they could achieve ego death, which again with psychs is a repeatable experience. I could dose myself now and I could annihilate my being, you cant possibly annihilate yourself with meditation and come to terms with death or be familiar with it the way you can with psychs. You couldnt willingly annihilate yourself, doesnt make sense.

On the contrary, I travel along the path of nun very often (the path of death). I often have death experiences which are very profound and are an essential part of a persons evolution. To show some of my lack of skill here, I actually tend to land on the path of death too often when I'm really aiming for the path of Samekh which is a much more beautiful way to illuiminate.

Any ego death on drugs will only come back after the trip and in my opinion the ego will be stronger.


I would love to hear your experiences with psychs and why youve formed this opinion now, because im not going stop dosing and trying to meditate, I dont have the patience, doesnt mean your superior, seem to get that a lot from people into meditation as if their threatened by the psychedelic experience, and anyway the dmt high is anything but minimal! Maybe your a hard head but I dont know how you can say that!

Well I've gone into this a little in my reply to Kedz...See what I mean by psychedelic dick waving, it is as though smoking a hit of DMT or taking mushrooms is somehow a skillful or something that requires courage...It is nothing. Although I do conceed that ayahuasca is at least a bitch to prepair.

[dmt head]

It isnt psychedelic psychedelic dick waving, sounds like meditating dick waving to me, im just saying mate. You make some interesting points though im not a sucker, maybe in your eyes because you have the "skills" as you put it. I dont think their a gimmick they seriously make me a better healthier person when im on a cappi diet, I really need something to force the issue as I dont have much discipline or patience and from my perspective its right for me and works for me and does give me a steady stream of improvement, theirs nothing wrong with it. Ego death doesnt reinforce my ego at all it makes me very humble and grateful, the exact opposite. Not everyone is the same and I said before to each their own, no ones right or wrong.

[chris]

I disagree that I'm meditative dick waving, I didn't say I was any good at it, I was just discussing the philosophy and rationale behind it.

How often do you do these psychedelics?

I think soon enough you will create a tolerence for them and you'll start to reach a point of diminishing returns only remedied through taking larger amounts which over the long term, I don't think will be healthy.

Your brain chemistry will change due to the increased amount of DMT or other chemicals and then your natural levels will seem low in comparison and afterall, it's these natural levels we want to raise to gain insight.

[dmt head]

I use psychedelics probably once a week, sometimes more sometimes less. I do take breaks from time to time. I dont think my tolerance will go up, if anything as times went by ive become even more sensitive to them. And with smoked dmt tolerance rarely builds up. Leave it two hours and it will be just as strong, aya for me is always tempremental. Usually hard to get a consistent potency with the dmt plants, apart from mimosa, which is usally a guarantee. You make good points chris but I dont have the patience or discipline for meditation on a regular basis, I use psychedelics and they really benefit me.

[chris]

That's okay DMT, I just thought people might benefit from an alternative point of view. I don't really care but when you get into this stuff it's either drugs or newage hinduism, I don't prescribe to either so I thought I'd just throw this out there for anyone that both doesn't sit right with.

Just out of curiosity, how to you isolate your dmt for smoking?

[dmt head]

I extract it from mimosa hostillis. I use something very similiar to the marsofold tek. http://wiki.dmt-nexus.com/Marsofold%27s_tek

[ekim]

chris, do you see yourself as a guru?

[chris]

fuck no

[kedz]

Thank you for trying to get to know the reason why I hold this position and not just pass me off as an uninformed moralist that somehow gets outraged by this subject (I don't know why people try to make others out to be angry when in a debate but it's such a common tactic)...

Basically my thoughts were exactly like Bill Hicks, that being psychedelics were evolution accelorators.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=baeT3g7udho

As for ayahuasca, the first time I did it, my friend and I both ate nothing but fruit for three days and then took the initial cup to offset the mao-inhibitors and then we took the ayahuasca...My friend projectile vomited but I held it in for a bit longer but eventually I vomited also. I did a bit of a Keith Moon on the amounts I used and it was far too potent.

Anyhow, we both meditated in my room and it took about 15 minutes before we started to get the traditional wet feeling and buzzing, I then laid down on my floor relaxing and I saw all around me tall grass growing, it wasn't the amazon jungle like so many report but just normal grass. I then thought I'd close my eyes and see if I could get any closed eye visuals...I didn't but then I decided to try a visualisation so I thought I'd start with something simple, the sun. I imagined the sun and it came to me extremely bright, I then increased it's luminesence greatly and then thought instead of picturing the sun, I'll just focus on the suns rays which all came out fast from the sun, these then turned into many retangular patterns as they were comign closer to me, they flashed by me getting ever more complicated. At this point my friend was pretty high as well and told me after he was getting something similar but in chinese symbols. I don't know how long these lasted because time seemed so transparant. Once we were able to get out senses about us, we went for a walk and I saw a lot of other stuff on the way, our communication was greatly increased and we were laughing at each others body language because it was just so advanced. It made average human body langauge seem on par with apes.

Obviously, you have many great revelations at the time, most of them not workable and you also get many interesting insights into your life and how you got to where you are. A problem which I isolated regarding the psychedelic experience is that you can dwell on these insights and they may not even have that much bearing on your life as it seemed, however I was already pretty experienced in psychonautical experiments at the time.

All in all, I do see them as useful in a psychological setting. Let's say if the psychologist uses them to show the patient that things aren't actually as important as they may seem. Although I do believe that the psychologist must accompany the patient in these journeys which could be bad for him in the long run.

I just don't see them as useful as far as long term evolution. They are vastly overrated, just because you get some visuals and have an experience.



Well it is a bit of a brash statement and it's just my opinion but he seems pretty slow and not only when he's making thoughtful and profound statements (which aren't that profound to me)...I used to think this when I really sucked up to McKenna and the whole psychedelic community that seem to be more of a cult like hype machine.

I do respect McKenna because at least he took copious amounts of Mushrooms very often. So he at least puts his money where his mouth is, if I believed like many that these drugs fascilitate evolution, I would be taking them very often also. I always had my doubts though.

McKenna also said that taking mushrooms would be like a bit cleanout of your psyche, I've heard him make the comparison to defragging your head drive, clearing out cookies and excess files and emptying your recycle bin. This is pure bollocks to me, I've found it's actually the opposite and although you may feel this is what is happening, I have not been able to achieve higher states of meditation after a tripping session.



Well if that is your true opinion and not your diplomatic one then your not in disagreement with me. It is quite a relegation from our fascilitators of our evolution to a psychiatric tool.



Well jeez, that's a whole fucking lot of questions and I can't answer them all...However you get very similar molecules throughout plant and animals species, people don't worship the femanine and try to become women like simply because there are similar estrogen hormones in plants for example.

People forget that many animals also consume these plants and trip out but they haven't shown evolution due to them.

The reason why people have used them and always will because they produce and experiences, like DMTHEAD said, they produce and easy experience for lazy people.

I don't know why we give so much credit to sharmans, it is as though psychnauts revere them as much as regular people revere scientists. The fact is that when the sharmanic culture move onto higher spiritual studies, most of them drop them in preferance for natural paths.

What made me change my opinion was through alchemy, I was able to get real experiences rather than a mind blitz.


Sorry to be rude, i don't know if i can be bothered to go into it all.. but i do believe we have different thoughts on these compounds, a different understanding and a different approach to them.. As a result we intergrate our experiences differently.. Leaving me with the whole and big picture that surrounds them.. That they are here for us to eat, explore and gain a greater understanding of ourselves and the planet we resign.. And that we've ate them all through our evolution.
I know you like to attain this by the natural means.. However, I don't think we can do it completely natural, therefore we need a little help along the way.. In terms of ayahuascsa, i was more interested in your thoughts around what that offers, standing alone in the master plant kingdom by all that it gives.. meaning, it can't just be brushed off as a psychedlic.. it's more of a medicine with visions..
anyway, i guess i've not even put myself across as gOOd as i could have here, i just got home from work and am tired and can't be bothered to write...


but oh hey, each to their own my brother and what fits and feels right for some, don't for others but i do think some of your thoughts are off a little..

peace :D

[chris]

So what if people have taken them throughout our evolution. The key variable is 'do the facilitate our evolution' or even help them? I say no. We can do it completely through natural means and that is not an option. You will find that the long road will actually turn out to be the shortcut eventually.

This is also something which isn't opinion based because we can't fundementally change our physiology based on our opinions.

The reality of psychedelics are that your brain will alter it's form to accompany the fluctuations of those particular chemicals and therefore will be operating at a perceivably reduced rate when not on them.

As for ayahuasca being 'the master plant' or whatever, this is just pure speculation and if it was so great then the societies that used it would be far more advanced than those which didn't. This is obviously not the case.

Make this elixir I clearly explain on this thread, take it for 6 months and then we can discuss this subject on a much more rational level.

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=61096&highlight=elixir

[ekim]

What are you on about?

How do you think we "discovered" medicines? It was not by trial and error. It was from talking to these plants in altered states, most likely after taking entheogens.

Chris do what you feel is right, but don't act like you know all by making statements like.."they produce and easy experience for lazy people."

I think you need to rethink what evolution is, as it seem you haven't the slightest clue.

[metacomet]

Hmmm glad to see Terrence brought up...

although before he died, Salvia was practically a brand new, recently discovered psychedelic...

and although Terrence was an expert in all psychs, from pot, to lsd, mushrooms, dmt, peyote etc...

he crowned Salvia as the biggest and best of them all. Super lucid, intense and vivid experiences as potent as and often beyond the most powerful known psychedelics, and an ability to return safe and sound... he was very happy about this plant.

Terrence McKenna - Salvia Divinorum - YouTube

[jozephz]

Not long, I'm not one of those Hindus that believes they've got to meditate for thousands of incarnations before they can achieve any state of samadhi. In fact it's more of a skill and the reason why they don't achieve results for a long time is that they don't teach the necessary skills needed.



I've been interested in meditation for some time, but this is the problem, just don't know where to get solid advice on the subject, there seem to be lots of different views. Any input you have on these skills would be greatly appreciated :)

[chris]

What are you on about?

How do you think we "discovered" medicines? It was not by trial and error. It was from talking to these plants in altered states, most likely after taking entheogens.

The whole psychedelic scene fills people up with so many fallacies it's unbelievable. It is almost like the black liberation scene where they think anyone of any worth (including Tom Jones) is black. In this case though, psychedelic drugs are the root of all things, from the coming of Jesus to alchemy (which is absolute bs) to mushrooms being alien species arriving here on spaceships to help evolve our planet...I mean seriously, how can people believe all this?

Anyway regarding the anthropological development of our medicines, mostly in our cultures we simply evolved with the knowledge as it was embedded within us and our societies, our medicines go too far back to know the root cause of our herbal knowledge no one can tell. I would love you to give any evidence whatsoever to how we learned our medical knowledge through taking entheogens...By the way, telling me I'm not a druggy enough to understand is not evidence;)

Regardless, there is certainly a possibility that some of our medical knowledge could have come through insights while on drugs.

However there are a lot more things to consider, such as evocation of spirits that teach us of the nature of plants, meditation on those plants and simply through acknowledging the effects of certain herbs when ingested for eating.

A good example I read about was Stalking Wolfs protegee, who's pupil was trying to communicate with a plant and saw a vision of the marshmellow plant being boiled up and it's tea being used as an eyebath for pink eye (a condition which her relative had), so she went back to ask him if the marshmellow root was a cure for pink eye and it sure enough was. Stalking Wolf was the apache that was in charge of gathering up all the teachings of the tribes before they and their knowledge were wiped out and guess what? He does not use psychedelic plants, he uses sweat lodges, fasting, meditation, ceremonies and vision quests to communicate between worlds.

I've been interested in meditation for some time, but this is the problem, just don't know where to get solid advice on the subject, there seem to be lots of different views. Any input you have on these skills would be greatly appreciated :)

Well this is not really the place to say and I know I'm going to get bashed on here for saying these things but hey, I don't care...Very briefly, here are a few important aspects...

1. Good posture, that doesn't mean sticking your leg over your head and doing their prayer sign with your hands, I'm talking about your standing posture of a lengthy well stacked spine with broad shoulders and skull that is angled adjacent to the spine, not influenced by it anyway but balanced. This is attainable by all and is not a thing your born with.

2. Diet. The diet is very important to your meditations because your mind and your digestive system run on the same thing, the high-amp low-voltage central nervous system. Eat a diet that's easy on your CNS.

3. Sleep. This is very important as you need a very good night sleep to process and fathom all the things during the day and previous days. Plus the more sleep you get, the easier it is to get lucid dreams.

4. The Macro-meditation. This meditation isn't very strict but I rate it higher than temporary short bursts of meditations...All the macro-meditation is is you limit your ridiculous fantasies throughout the day. This helps your mind to repair itself and also your dreams become a lot clearer and prepairs you for stronger meditation.

5. Some kind of symbolic ritual element. Choose your style, whether it's taosim, hermeticism or christianity, whatever resonates with you most. As most people on here probably know that the higher mind works through symbolism and in order to awaken the higher mind you not only need concentration but also the symbolism necessary to inspire it. It's very common for people to try to understand their dreams symbolism and know it's a way our subconscious speaks to us but most people don't know that it's also a two way system and you can speak to it if you know it's symbolism.

There are more things such as theurgy and practical alchemy. I also think astral protection/projection gets increasingly important but i'll just leave the list at that. There's a lot of reading material and that I can suggest but it would probably be better to speak via pm though because I don't want to bring it off topic.

As for the specific skills I talked about...The way they used to meditate was to listen to their mind and backtrack their thoughts to the source of their distraction...Here's a thread I made on it...

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11396&highlight=meditation

Still, that's only one meditation, there are many ways to meditate and what you've got to do is find what works best for you.

[brainstormed]

Can someone post the link to the documentary again, please? It doesn't come up when I click on this thread.

Also, I am fond of this plant, and would like to learn more about how a sitter can help a friend travel, if possible. I have traveled, and would love to see him 'get there'.

Thanks to metacomet and all for this great thread.

[crypticmystic]

Can someone post the link to the documentary again, please? It doesn't come up when I click on this thread.

Also, I am fond of this plant, and would like to learn more about how a sitter can help a friend travel, if possible. I have traveled, and would love to see him 'get there'.

Thanks to metacomet and all for this great thread.

seconded

link doesn't even show in post!

[kedz]

The reality of psychedelics are that your brain will alter it's form to accompany the fluctuations of those particular chemicals and therefore will be operating at a perceivably reduced rate when not on them.

As for ayahuasca being 'the master plant' or whatever, this is just pure speculation and if it was so great then the societies that used it would be far more advanced than those which didn't. This is obviously not the case.

Make this elixir I clearly explain on this thread, take it for 6 months and then we can discuss this subject on a much more rational level.

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=61096&highlight=elixir


Chris, as for the brain altering it's form to accompany the chemical fluctuations.. the brain is flooding with different chemical fluctuations all the time, everyday.. seritonin being the chemical of choice, as i'm sure you know.. every emotion releases chemicals and meditation also.. blah, blah, yes, i'm sure you know all that, so it is based only on your opinion that due to it altering "form" by taking psychedlics, the brain will then act on perceivable reduced "rate" when not on them.. thats not fact at all dude.. pure speculation on your part, sorry..

as far as ayahuasca goes, it's not about advancement, as i said it's more like a medicine with visions.. Those societys who live with ayahuasca have used it for many thousands of years as a medicine and is vital and has been vital in history to their survival as a species, spiritual beings and knowledge of the jungle and spirit world.. A medicine and it's only our western interest in it, has it become anything but a medicine.. 10,000 + year history as a medicine.. Now, we westerners are into it for all manner of reasons with healing at the core...

i dunno, i guess we go knowhere with this.. so hey oh.. lets smile at differences :D:D

[crypticmystic]

as far as ayahuasca goes, it's not about advancement, as i said it's more like a medicine with visions.. Those societys who live with ayahuasca have used it for many thousands of years as a medicine and is vital and has been vital in history to their survival as a species, spiritual beings and knowledge of the jungle and spirit world.. A medicine and it's only our western interest in it, has it become anything but a medicine.. 10,000 + year history as a medicine.. Now, we westerners are into it for all manner of reasons with healing at the core...

spot on!

[metacomet]

Doh! Sorry I never noticed the original vid was missing...
Sacred weeds:Salvia divinorum pt.1/6 - YouTube

I will contact mods and see if they can fix it.

[octopusrex]

If Salvia is beer...
Weed is Tequila!:D

[oioioi]

OK, I think I may be giving this a shot tonight. :)

[chris_com283]

I saw the video a while ago. The only thing I liked about it was that the plant was investigated by an academic. I'll check out the other videos now.

[dmt head]

I saw the video a while ago. The only thing I liked about it was that the plant was investigated by an academic. I'll check out the other videos now.

Aye if hes an academic it must be valid then

[oioioi]

I shall do my own research before the night is out :cool:

[noobcybot]

Thanks Meta great video, especially as docs about Salvia are rare.

I could go on and on about Salivia and my one experience with it. But simply said, this is stronger than most any drug I know, never underestimate it even if youve tried it before and had no effect. It is highly powerful and you will learn world shattering things, if done right your life will never be the same that is how important it is.

[kedz]

Aye if hes an academic it must be valid then

he he :D

[chris_com283]

Aye if hes an academic it must be valid then
Did I say that? What I ment was I liked that it was being taken seriously by an academic.

[w0rm]

I got so hyped about this once.

Me and my friends (habitual weed smokers) all pitched in to buy some, can't remember the potency, but it definitely wasn't one of the lighter strains.

Anyway, we smoked a batch of this stuff and I was utterly disappointed.

It wasn't the disgusting taste (I don't expect sugary drugs ;)), but the fact it did nothing but give me a headache. Neither of my friends experienced anything either.

Perhaps I'll try it again, but for now I'll stick with the green.

[oioioi]

Well that was interesting. I almost made it to the flipside but had to be content with the experience of feeling like I was becoming absorbed by the furniture, or I was absorbing the furniture, I couldn't quite tell. All matter started by becoming 'more real' and solid looking until I realised I was actually looking beyond their realness and was therefore seeing a more real picture of things.
It certainly gives a feeling of detachment from the self, as well as everyone else. Mrs oioioi tried speaking to me on a couple of occasions, I just felt like Pink in the Wall before he got to the show.

Overall verdict? I want it to be a stronger, longer experience next time. I can see why it isn't for everyone though!

[metacomet]

Thank you mods for putting the video back on the OP :)


After a year since my last trip (the breakthrough) I have ordered some more salvia.

1 ounce of potent dried leaves, and 1 gram of 10x extract.

The breakthrough experience I had was on 15x extract, but I am still aware that 10x is very potent...

also, the reverse tolerance factor of Salvia should mean that I can make this gram go a long way. And the ounce of leaves, I'm excited about that.

[noobcybot]

Will you tell us how it goes Meta?

Also, do you guys know how long you can store salvia (for smoking) in a plastic vial?

[oioioi]

The breakthrough experience I had was on 15x extract, but I am still aware that 10x is very potent...



Eek! I had 25x and didn't feel it was quite enough! :eek: My teen years of over doing lsd coming back to haunt me?

[hollo]

my 1st stuff that took me to another world was x20
then i got some x60 and it felt weaker!
it matters where you get it from.

[fidokrab]

I bought this from a local cigarette store:

http://i45.tinypic.com/2l940lk.jpg

I still have 3 hits left, but not sure I want to give it a go again. It's really powerful stuff, and very, very weird. :D

The last trip I took it in complete darkness and just sat back and watched. I don't remember much, but I do remember seeing flat surfaces in all directions made up of little geometric objects. Very strange.

[metacomet]

Eek! I had 25x and didn't feel it was quite enough! :eek: My teen years of over doing lsd coming back to haunt me?

Hmm not necessarily.

Apparently Salvia needs a little time to get familiar with your neurons :p

Alot of people don't feel much their first, second, third tries... they feel 'weird' and some of the bodily sensations, some of the trippyness. But sooner or later they have a real trip.


it matters where you get it from.

That would make sense.

I bought this from a local cigarette store:

http://i45.tinypic.com/2l940lk.jpg

I still have 3 hits left, but not sure I want to give it a go again. It's really powerful stuff, and very, very weird. :D

The last trip I took it in complete darkness and just sat back and watched. I don't remember much, but I do remember seeing flat surfaces in all directions made up of little geometric objects. Very strange.

Awesome.

When you said you bought that at a cigarette store, was it a smoke shop? With pipes and bongs and stuff for pot as well as tobacco?

If you found that in just a regular tobacco store I am blown away.

[oioioi]

The shop where I bought mine had peyote cacti for sale.

[fidokrab]

When you said you bought that at a cigarette store, was it a smoke shop? With pipes and bongs and stuff for pot as well as tobacco?

If you found that in just a regular tobacco store I am blown away.

Yeah. It had glass pipes, pipe weed (tobacco), and some other weird legal highs that I never heard of.

Just ask the guy working there for salvia. They know what it is.

[hollo]

the x60 i got from http://www.coffeesh0p.com/
was a bit weak (went there as prices were really cheap...
now i know why!)

[joel1212]

you can find salvia at headshops (smoke shops)

[neuer]

I presume you notice the Solid Hologram & the 4th dimension when you smoke this? Is the effect similar to mushrooms for anyone who’s tried it?

[elo_zorn]

I've had quite a few experiences with this plant, and it continues to shatter my reality everytime. I don't mean this in a negative way at all, just in that in my experience this plant completely disassembles the reality we normally reside in and sort of shows you the ropes behind the scenes of our normal scope.

My first set of trips were very unprepared and immature, just wanting to check out this "legal high". I was a naive teen and had no knowledge of entheogens, a trip to me was for recreation and nothing but. These first experiences were quite terrifying, almost as if Lady Salvia was demanding respect, slapping some sense into me so to speak. Eventually I kind of got the picture, and decided not to touch it anymore. Years later, after my teen drug use had slowed to an almost complete stop I started reading about hallucinogens, their history and use amongst aboriginals all over the world. This re-ignited my interest in using this type of drug myself but in a whole new way involving preparation, purpose, intent and respect. This allowed me to take much more from my Salvia experiences, and the trips started to dive "deeper" into the realms this plant can unlock. I started learning much more from my trips to these seemingly uncomprehensible realities this plant brings forth, and started interacting more proactively within my trips. Incredibly concise teachings started to flow from each trip and I even started to experience and interface with what seems to be other "beings" within the Salvia world.

To get the best out of my trips, here's the method I employ:

-Have a reason for planning a trip, and try to determine a general "question" to ask Salvia and her "custodians" as I like to call them.

-Choose a proper place and time for your trip. Make sure you've taken care of all your responsibilites, and have plenty of time to digest your trip. The area you trip in should be a comfortable, private, quiet and safe environment. Have a trusted friend present as a sitter to help you through your trip if you need it, to help you remember the trip/things you say etc and of course to ensure your safety while Salvia takes the reins from you.

-The worlds Salvia can bring you to are not "physical", therefore you experience them inwardly. Taking your trip in the dark, with your eyes closed helps produce the most vivid experience I find, as the "real world" tends to only intrude, confuse and annoy. I like to use a candle for preparation/ingestion light, and have my sitter blow it out once I've taken my hit.

- I find laying down with a pillow under your neck to be the best position for my trips, as it is relaxing and you eliminate the risk of falling/slouching over while Salvia renders you quite sloppy and heavy to say the least.

-Using a "slide" water bong or water pipe are the best delivery methods for smoking Salvia. This helps cool the hot smoke, and delivers a lot of smoke quickly to give you the best effects. Taking the desired amount all at once is preferable, so it doesn't start hitting you as you try to re-light and smoke more. Take your hit and have your sitter take the smoking device from you immediately. A hit of potent extract tends to hit you like a brick wall so you don't have much time to take care of this yourself.

-After I take my hit and lay down, I close my eyes and start taking full, slow, connected breaths to help relax and clear my head. The effects will begin almost immediately, and the intense part of the experience will last for 2-10mins on average. A general "stoney" feeling lingers for about 30-60 mins afterwards.

-With a strong experience, you can expect to be completely ripped from normal reality, and perhaps from your body completely. You may completely forget that you just took a drug, and trips can feel extremely disorienting or confusing because of this. Be prepared mentally for this, to make it easier to get something from your trip other than absolute terror.

-Having your friend take notes while you trip and when you try to put your experience to words (good luck!) afterwards can be quite beneficial to disecting your experience.

If you're looking to experience the "full" potency of Salvia, I suggest using a strong extract and not leaf. I usually use 40-60x and smoke approx. 1/5th of a gram per trip. If you'd like to try a more traditional method, you can chew fresh leaves instead. Roll up 20-30 large fresh leaves like a cigar and start chewing but do not swallow. Leave the chew under your tounge to absorb. This takes longer to kick in compared to the smoking method, but makes for a much more gentle onset. You should be feeling the effects creeping up on you once you near the end of your rolled leaves and can spit it all out once you adequately chewed it all up. This usually takes at least 10-15 minutes to do. Small amounts of less potent extracts, and leaf can be used as an aphrodisiac or medatative aid etc.

Another important variable is product quality; DO NOT BUY CHEAP STUFF. Source a reliable retailer and buy top notch product as this may be the difference between feeling ripped off or being drop kicked through infinity! A gram of 40-60x extract is generally around $50-70 in Canadian dollars.

Salvinorin A (the active ingredient) is complete unique to itself; it has no relatives or derivitives. It is not a naturally occuring plant (Sage/Mint family), but is actually a hybrid derviving from unknown source species. It is generally propogated by cloning, and rarely produces viable seed. For hundreds (perhaps thousands) of years this hybrid has been kept alive by aboriginal peoples in Central America. All in all, this stuff is extremely powerful and beneficial (when used properly). In my opinion, the only rival hallucinogen potency/experience wise would be DMT.

Happy tripping!

[neuer]

Network of Heaven

Network of Hell

[neuer]

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

Watch for the reference to 21/12/12 @ 1:13

[metacomet]

Excellent post elo zorn!

Making me excited for my next trip :p

I have found that if you take a small enough amount that you don't break through... you can stay fully conscious during the entire experiment, and even look around and experience things in a very light hearted manner... but that involves taking super small hits of less than 20x extracts...

Do you think that kind of dosing is just as fun or valuable as conducing breakthrough experiences?

[millhouse]

I use the 'coffeeshop' for my salvia the 20X is anything but weak!! had some really good experiances on it,the longer you can hold it in the better it is then do another 'hit immediatly and 'Bang! lay down in a dark room with no noise, the second time i felt i was been beckoned, like 'come with us' the third time i was like on a wave,where evreything was all one, I find a salvia trip very hard to describe in words, you will see what i mean if you get it right!

[dmt head]

Do you think that kind of dosing is just as fun or valuable as conducing breakthrough experiences?

IMO it can be just as valuable. Salvias never really worked in a big way for me, ive forgot what I was and had some humorous weird experiences but ive never seen another honest to god reality or been ripped from my body :confused: but I have heard a lot of people saying even eating one leaf can be beneficial and is invoking the spirit, and is communing with that spirit. Ive also heard salvia can be quite protective of humans.

I read a great report the other day, this woman had an irregular heart beat and someone suggested a salvia ceremony. She went to the mazatec and done the ceremony, then in the dark she seen the two people who were holding the ceremony there in this alternate reality, she realised they were both plants and then she realised she was too and this salvia spirit was tending her human garden, she went and tended her and after the ceremony she went back home and doctors were baffled at her recovery.

I used to wonder what healing benefits salvia could possibly offer, I mean I became a gutter, my friend became a biscuit, where is the healing or relevence?? lol But then reality probably is weirder than we can possibly conceive, maybe in another life I was a gutter lol

[metacomet]

I'm thinking about taking off once in the foothills of these mountains, where I live.

http://www.circledhorses.com/ravalli%20hill.jpg

I'll most likely use extract for my outdoor trip, and it will obviously be done in the daytime, as tripping at night in the wilderness cannot possibly go well.

I will then trip indoors, in the dark laying down, sometime later by leaf-chewing however much of my 1 ounce of dried potent it takes to induce an experience. I haven't decided on whether or not I should listen to anything ambient or not. I will most likely have plenty of time to experiment with lots of different settings.

I don't expect to be intentionally having any breakthrough experiences outdoors, and I do remember my first hit of Salvia being extremely small in dosage, but still provided an awesome experience with open eyed visuals and sensations. I had no problem staying in touch with myself on a low dose and am sure that can be recreated. An accidental high dose or tipping point could easily lead to a breakthrough experience however, and I don't want to come back to reality alone in the middle of the wilderness :p I will stay as close to the bottom of the foothill and my neighborhood as possible.

[metacomet]

IMO it can be just as valuable. Salvias never really worked in a big way for me, ive forgot what I was and had some humorous weird experiences but ive never seen another honest to god reality or been ripped from my body :confused: but I have heard a lot of people saying even eating one leaf can be beneficial and is invoking the spirit, and is communing with that spirit. Ive also heard salvia can be quite protective of humans.

I read a great report the other day, this woman had an irregular heart beat and someone suggested a salvia ceremony. She went to the mazatec and done the ceremony, then in the dark she seen the two people who were holding the ceremony there in this alternate reality, she realised they were both plants and then she realised she was too and this salvia spirit was tending her human garden, she went and tended her and after the ceremony she went back home and doctors were baffled at her recovery.

I used to wonder what healing benefits salvia could possibly offer, I mean I became a gutter, my friend became a biscuit, where is the healing or relevence?? lol But then reality probably is weirder than we can possibly conceive, maybe in another life I was a gutter lol

Yes I'm really interested in any ceremonies done by the natives who originated this plant... as well as any healing properties.

I am very familiar with ayahuasca and other psychs being used in ceremonies, where the shaman will dose himself along with the patient, and then remove objects from the persons dimensional body or spirit.

There is alot of miming and sucking out spirits and spitting them out of our reality... if healing in this way did not work, they would not do it in my opinion.

[dmt head]

There is alot of miming and sucking out spirits and spitting them out of our reality... if healing in this way did not work, they would not do it in my opinion.

Aye and they do this practice all over the world, the sucking and the spitting. I was reading about a shamen who would use tobacco, he saved this baby and he said the tobacco would show him where the bad spirit/dis-ease was and hed suck it out and eventually they would be healed, really quite amazing and well beyond what we in the western world arrogantly conceive what healing is.

[supertzar]

Cool Im gonna watch this tonight.

Have been reading the various threads on Salvia and doing other research into it, definately want to try it and was planning to.

Last weekend I had a shedload of cannabis from a bong ( never bonged before - i have smoked lots of joints which never really do much for me) and I went stellar, I mean, REALLY stellar - OOBE, I was in the stars, I was one with everything.

The most amazing experience of my life, i cant put it into words. Now im thinking first of all, surely that aint normal - just off weed?! I know different drugs affect different people different ways, but still...so now im unsure if i should be doing salvia if cannabis can do this to me.

Second of all, reflecting on my experience from last week, im questioning why it happened, is it because my mind has been conditioned into the whole Icke way of thinking - infinite conciousness, infinite love etc - or was it "Real" - I mean, it FEELS real, felt real, whatever.

Its definately changed me. I feel I KNOW that we are all infinate love and that this whole existence is simply a journey....just wasnt expecting this kinda thing when I toked that bong last week....I was expecting to get this kinda thing from Salvia!

Congratulations on finding your ally, gaff. I had a similarly mindblowing introduction to the herb. Not out of body, but an amazing psychedelic trip that changed my life. For months after that first time I would trip out every time I smoked, with closed eye animations scrolling from right to left and just tremendous activation of the mind. One person said "Supertzar, you trip out harder on pot than I have ever tripped on acid."

[pythaem]

Thanks for that link, gonna watch the vid tonight!

As a recent first-timer, this is a very rewarding entheogen. Just do your research and treat it with respect!

And it doesn't always work the first time. Third time was a charm in this situation. Here's the report of 1st successful trip:

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1058514518&postcount=6

I encourage whoever tries it to write about their experience and post it :)

[devanshoom]

well I just had my first hit of this stuff ever and fuck me this shit is STRONG....i reckon i did too much and i kind of flipped out...in ways that i cant really expain. I guess wasnt really prepared for the intensity of it......I cant really recommend it as such but I will definitely be getting some more. I reckon it takes a few goes to get used to the power...and also environment is a major factor....my girlfriend also took a big hit while in the kitchen and basically just had loads of intense visions about dirty dishes and chopsticks.....On the down side, 22 euros for 2 largish hits of 20x is rather expensive.

[hollo]

.On the down side, 22 euros for 2 largish hits of 20x is rather expensive.

you could always grow your own? :)

[devanshoom]

yeah good idea.....grow it, I mean.


BTW...anyone who is a bit scared to try salvia dont worry...Its over within 5 minutes so you wont be freaking out for 6 hours. Just bear in mind it is rather an intense 5 minutes...I get the impression taking a mild hit of this stuff isnt worth bothering with....

[oioioi]

Its over within 5 minutes so you wont be freaking out for 6 hours.

Not strictly true. I was more freaked out reflecting on what happened than when experiencing it! I'll be going back though.

[noobcybot]

PLEASE do this with someone you trust with your life as a sober party. Try and have them give good thoughts.

[biblegirl]

can you describe the leaf-chewing method please :o

[pessi_optimist]

A book i am reqding called 2012 yr of mayan prophesy by daniel pinchbeck has some interesting perspectives on pyschedelics. The consensus should be-know what you're taking, know why you're taking it, and don't get addicted. Terrence mckenna died of a brain tumour, i wonder why...

[biblegirl]

i think that is a pretty acurate description of likely effects!

I had a massive hit on it whilst sat on a couch. It then felt like a grid came out of the chair from all around me and covered me, it then changed into 100's of hands which came from the chair and grabbed hold of me and pulled me into it.


holy crap


I packed the bowl of my pipe, like the guy I bought it from suggested, and took the whole thing in one hit. I held in the smoke for a few seconds and exhaled. The first thought I had was "ok, now what?", well in an insant I got my answer. I felt it coming on like it was a vortex pulling me in, lightly at first and then intensifying. My perception started to change, and I felt a great awareness, I not only knew but felt, with all my being, that everything is an illusion(this is all before I had even begun to cross over). My focus then became zoned in on a very colourful south american blanket I have and my living room. I had this feeling that I was in a book, I could see the pages and spine, it was made of the colours of my blanket, and the room seemed to become very long, like it was a very long book I was in. Then I had the strangest feeling, I felt the book being closed, and I could feel it closing on me. I saw and felt myself bending over and instantly I knew what was happening, I was leaving my body. Well I guess I didn't feel I was quite ready yet and fought myself leaving my body. I forced myself to stand up, which felt very strange, walked a few feet to the entrance to my kitchen and tried to get grounded. It felt like if I took another step into the kitchen that I would walk into another dimension. I force my way through that and next thing I know I'm outside smoking an unlit cig chanting "that was fucked up" over and over. I felt a strange high for about 20 minutes afterwards then went to bed. :D


what a great and detailed description, thank you for that

so people can still walk around when they're having this experience?

[noobcybot]

so people can still walk around when they're having this experience?

Even when fully under your body can be going off on one. My bro had to physcially restrain me for the full as I was trying to jump into the tv. When I came round he was exhausted and was about to knock me out (can you be knocked unconscious while in that state). We didnt know salvia could do this so yeah, quite shocking. Thats why you must have someone to look after you who you trust with your life.

The chewing method might avoid this type of thing.

[metacomet]

can you describe the leaf-chewing method please :o

Leaves (preferably fresh) are rolled into a cigar shape (or ball) and chewed. If the leaves are dried (as mine are) they will be soaked in water for about 10 mins to soften them up for chewing.

While chewing the leaves, (also called quidding), the Salvinorin A (active chemical) is released from the plant into the saliva. For this reason the Saliva must not be spit out, but instead remain in the mouth and saturate with the active chemical.

Salvinorin A is absorbed more quickly through the salvia in the mouth than it would be through the stomach (the stomach acid would destroy the Salvinorin A, whereas Saliva does not).

I wonder if there's a coincidence between Salvia and Saliva being spelled so similarly!

In any case - after chewing the leaves for about 20-30 mins, the saliva can be spit out along with the plant. Another chewing can take place if needed.

I have yet to chew my leaves, but that was the procedure as I've learned it!

[biblegirl]

thank you metacomet!

i have never smoked anything before and i was concerned that my hacking and coughing after the inhale might put a damper on my first salvia experience :p it's nice to know there are other ways

[elo_zorn]

thank you metacomet!

i have never smoked anything before and i was concerned that my hacking and coughing after the inhale might put a damper on my first salvia experience :p it's nice to know there are other ways

Another method of oral ingestion is using an alcohol based tincture. I recommend buying Daniel Sielbert's "Emerald Sage Goddess" tincture as it is very high quality and comes with a dosing table.

http://www.sagewisdom.org/

On a side note, I see that you're in the US; salvia has been made illegal in a few states so check your local laws before making an order!

[sub x]

I have never smoked Salvia straight,so I have no idea whats like in that sense,have always done it with acid and the experience was mind blowing but the last few times the Salvia was useless...

[joel1212]

For those psychonauts amongst us or those interested in the hubbub surrounding Salvia Divinorum - the legal and mind-bending trans-dimensional hallucinogenic plant which is sweeping the nation! ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6oAv0R6gtfk

i thought this was quite boring

[somewarez]

One more thing: There is a huge difference between plain salvia leaf and extract.

Extract is more popular obviously. Alot of people who experiment with leaf claim Salvia doesn't even 'work' :rolleyes: However as the documentary shows, leafs DO work.

There is a portion of the population which claims Salvia doesn't affect their brain chemistry whatsoever - even with powerful extract. Sucks to be them.

LMAO "sucks to be them" :D

Leaf works ;) Personally I'd never do concentrate, leaf works good enough for where I want to go :p

Thanks for the great thread MetaComet!


Peace

SW

[metacomet]

Sooo yeah... I have a bunch of Salvia right now :p I've had it for a while actually.

Just some 10x extract and about 3/4 ounce of leaves. Smoking the leaves by themselves does in fact have strong effects but you have to smoke too many bowls in immediate succession to feel sufficiently tripped.

[bruiseviolet]

Been wanting to try salvia for a while. My friend told me he would look out for me on my first trip.

I've only ever had cannabis before, so this should be interesting.