Are The Druids and The Britons The Same People? [Archive]

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december

28-06-2007, 09:01 PM

Or did the Druids belong to a different race? And if they did than who are the Britons by blood?...

logic bomb

29-06-2007, 12:06 AM

The Druids were the original Celtic contingent of England and Wales. Most modern Britons are a blood mixture of Caucasus, Germanic, Celtic and Scandinavian races.

http://www.hunmagyar.org/turan/caucasus/index.html

lb

december

29-06-2007, 12:23 AM

The Druids were the original Celtic contingent of England.

Hello, logic bomb.

But I think the Druids were the original Celtic contingent of Ireland and NOT England.
And there is a reason why England is still chasing Ireland (the Druids) to this day....

Most modern Britons are a blood mixture of Caucasus, Germanic, Celtic and Scandinavian races.

Well, I don't think we can consider Germanic, Celtic and Scandinavian people to be the parts of different RACES. Most likely all of them came out of one mother.

:)

mk72

29-06-2007, 12:23 AM

I’m not English or British myself but as far as I know the earliest inhabitants of Britain were the Picts (mostly in Scotland then), Scythians, Celts (Britain and Ireland), Angles, Jutes, later came the Saxons.The earliest known immigrants arrived in several waves over thousands of years, (600 BC) the Celts first arrived at that time, with two major language families, the Goidelic which separated into the three Gaelic languages spoken in Ireland, Scotland and the Isle of Man, the other was Brythonic which separated into Welsh, Cornish and Breton. The Celtic tribes would become the major cultural groups found in the British Isles during the Roman Invasion – among these where the Picts, which arrived in Scotland around 1000 BC. There is strong evidence that the Picts were a branch of Scythians (see attachment) since the Romans, which forms the bulk of the historical knowledge of Britain at the time, called any “barbaric” tribes, Celts. The Celtic society was divided into clans, which were loosely affiliated with one another, each of which held their own customs. Celtic wisdom and esoteric traditions were held by a Druid caste. They were elite priests, political advisors and teachers and well as healers. They seem to have held more authority in Celtic society than the Kings themselves.
Yair Davidiy writes this comprehensive history:

ISRAEL IN EUROPE

MAJOR MIGRATORY MOVEMENTS
 First Scythian Movements to Europe
Ca. 550 BCE: The movement of Scythians from the Middle East to north of the Caucasus began in earnest with the penetration of Scythia. Offshoots from this movement reached into Western Europe where they adopted Celtic culture.

The Retention of Israelite Clan Names
In the Books of Genesis (chapter 46) and Numbers (chapter 26) and elsewhere in Scripture are recalled the names of clans amongst the Israelite Tribes. These clans often became entities in their own right. The Scythian and Celtic groups bore tribal names that are frequently similar to those of the Israelite clans and they are grouped together in ways that recall the original tribal formations. Groups bearing the names of clans belonging to particular Israelite tribes tended to converge on the same areas even though they had forgotten all ancestral connection with each other. This phenomenon is recorded in Scythia, in Europe, and in Britain. When these peoples moved westward the occurrence repeated itself. The process can be traced by comparing the records of archaeology, ancient geographers (such as Ptolemy), Classical historians, and legends. “The Tribes” by Yair David(i)y describes these movements and identifications in some detail.

Royal Scythians Move Westward
Climate changes in Scythia caused “Sarmatian” groups to push the Royal Scyths westward in the period 300-100 BCE. They re-settled at first in the area of Bulgaria, then after renewed pressure continued north, ultimately to reach Scandinavia.

Royal Scythians to Scandinavia
The Turkish Huns emerging from the Far East after 200-160 BCE attacked the Aseir (Wusun), Goths, and Sacae who also began to war amongst themselves. These events were followed by a climate change which, after 120 BCE, resulted in the desolation of Chorasmia (east of the Caspian Sea) which previously had been heavily populated. Goths and Sacae began to move westward. These movements caused a chain reaction and migrations to Scandinavia included Royal Scythians moving northward from the Balkan area. Scandinavia was re-populated in the period 100 BCE-100 CE. The Baltic coast was also heavily settled in this time, and from there more tribes were to move westward.

The Belgae
After 200 BCE the Belgae from the East began occupying northern Gaul. They were associated with a group ultimately hailing from the Middle East and Syria and known linguistically as “The Northwest Block.” They arrived in Europe via Anatolia and the Crimean region of southwest Scythia. Culturally these peoples became Celtic-Galatian. The Belgae also occupied parts of Britain and Ireland.

Eastern Scythians Move West
From eastern Scythia, in the decades 70-50 BCE, the Western Sienbi and the Northern Hun group of Hugie, Dingling, and Gienkun moved westward. The Northern Hun group in Scythia had encompassed several smaller tribes at least some of which began to re-appear from 50 BCE in the Rhine area of Western Europe and within a hundred years had taken over the region. Archaeological evidence shows that in the time of Caesar the area of “Germany” east of the Rhine had had a type of culture (termed the “La-Tene”)
similar to that of the Belgae and Treveri in northern Gaul. Within a hundred years (i.e. by 50 CE) this culture had been completely destroyed and the region resettled by peoples bearing previously unknown names such as the Chatti, Chasuarri, Angrivarri, Ampsivarri, etc. The following examples of peoples who migrated from Scythia to Europe have the name by which they were known in the west followed in brackets by that which they had previously been called in Scythia: The Chauki (in Scythia “Cachage Scythae“), the Tubantes (Tabiene), Bructeri (Bactria), Chatti (Chatae Scythae), and the associated groups of Varni (Varini), Tigorini (Taguri), Angiloi (Augali-Aegeli,), Jutes (Iatii), Sasons (Sasones) and Scoti, Esci (Ascotacae), as well as Alans (Alans), Tectosaces (Tectosace Scythae), As (Asi), and quite a few others listed elsewhere. The area of Germany, like Scandinavia, received Tribes coming from Scythia and about to continue westward into Gaul and Britain. [“Gaul” is a term generally inclusive of modern France, Belgium, Switzerland, and Holland].

Suebi and Saxons Move Westward
From 150-350 CE continuous warfare instigated by the Huns in East Scythia caused many more peoples to move westward amongst whom were the eastern branch of Sienbi in ca. 170 CE [The western branch of Sienbi had previously gone to Europe in about 60 BCE]. In Europe the Sienbi were generally referred to as Suebi. This movement out of Scythia to the West caused the existing peoples in Germany in the period 200-300 CE (and in some cases somewhat before that time) to be replaced by bigger groups who absorbed them. The larger groups included the Saxons, Franks, Alemani, and so on and the Suebi. The Suebi appear to be the only major body remaining as an independent entity. They had acted as precursors to the newer arrivals. They were to be closely associated with the Saxons and Alamans who settled Alsace and Switzerland.

Many of the peoples arriving in the west came via Scandinavia or had had components in the Scandinavian region. This explains why some traditions attribute a Scandinavian origin to some of these groups. The Scandinavians themselves believed that they came from (or via) Scythia.

The Huns Push Saxons, Franks, and Others Westward
In the years 350-450 CE the Huns moved en-masse out of “Scythia“ (Eurasia) into Europe forcing most of the peoples in Scythia to accompany them or else to flee for their lives. As a result of the Hun invasions the Saxons, Franks, and Alamans received a large augmentation of manpower with the addition of new clans which (in the case of the Saxons) included those identified as Huns proper. In response to Hun pressure these greatly increased bodies overran the Western Roman Empire and settled Gaul and Britain. Goths, Vandals, Visigoths, and others also conquered formerly Roman countries. In most cases however, the conquerors were numerically insignificant when compared to the native populations. The whole process of movement, on the whole, was to continue till about 500 CE with an invasion by the “Vikings” some time later. In this period the white peoples of the East, described by the Chinese, were to disappear almost entirely and re-appear in Europe.

The Danites and Nephtalites Move to Scandinavia
In the very far east of Scythia in what is now eastern Siberia and western China a good portion of the Naphtalite horde had remained. In the 450-500 CE period the Naphtalites began to move west eventually entering Scandinavia in the 500's and 600's CE. The Naphtalites themselves settled mainly in Norway. Sweden was populated by Goths and by Suiones descendants of Shuni (pronounceable as “Su-oni”) son of Gad (Genesis 46:16). The Naphtalites had been accompanied by Danites who ultimately moved into Denmark parts of which had previously been populated by Angles, Jutes, and other Danites. There was a tradition that the Jutes descended from Judah and the Danes from Dan.

The Viking Invasions
The continued migrations to Scandinavia resulted in over-population, the pushing outwards of coastal populations, and subsequent overseas colonization. The Scandinavians overseas were known as the Vikings.

The Normans
The Vikings settled in England, Ireland, Normandy (France), and elsewhere. In Normandy the Vikings accepted French Culture and were called Normans. From Normandy they invaded England in 1066.

The Picts and Khazars
Some groups of Sacae-related Israelites including bands of Goths and Naphtali remained in the Caucasus region and adjoining areas of Scythia. These were eventually to amalgamate with the Agathyrsi and form the KHAZAR nation which converted to Judaism. Some (but not necessarily many) of their descendants are to be found today amongst the modern Jews. The real core of the Khazar nation federation was centered on the Akatziri or “Agathyrsy” as the Greeks called them. The Agathyrsi had had at one stage a section on the Baltic coast and another in Pontus by the Caucasus. At some time between 50 BCE-300 CE (more likely closer to the latter date) the Agathyrsi sent a contingent across the sea to Scotland where it became identified with the PICTS (Servius on Aenid 4.v.146). The Picts were to act more as accomplices than as opponents to the Anglo-Saxon invasion. The Picts were formidable warriors and seriously perturbed all who stood against them. Similarly, the Agathyrsi (Akatziri) in Europe were described by Jordanes (the Gothic historian) as being an extremely brave people.

The Khazars, who came from the Agathyrsi, were to convert to Judaism and had their own belief in having once been part of the Israelite nation. The Khazars were centered in Southern Russia but a small colony also existed in Sweden. The Khazars in Sweden had connections to the Anglo-Saxon colony of Hedeby in North Germany before the Angles and Saxons moved to Britain.

The Khazars and the Goths in early Medieval times were identified by Chroniclers with the Lost Ten Tribes of Israel. Similarly, the Historian Gildas in Britain (500s CE) speaks of the Celtic inhabitants of Britain as Israelites. The Anglo-Saxon historian, Bede, identified the English as the Chosen People. The Franks and Visigoths in the 7th century had similar notions. Historically many of the peoples who came westward were considered Gothic though the Goths-proper settled in Sweden. Traditions located Israelite Tribes in areas of Sacae and Gothic habitation and the different Tribal names correspond with those of Israelite entities. The Scyths, Goths, Cimmerians and related groups of Scythia were all one people, from one original stock, which was Israelite. From these nations emerged those of Western Europe.The “Barbarian” nations who invaded Europe derived from forces of the Scyths and Goths, who in turn had once been together with the Cimmerians. The Cimmerians had previously gone west and become part of the “Celtic” peoples whom the “Barbarians” were now conquering.

From Germany to North America
The Roman historian Tacitus reported the tradition that the Germans were descended from “Mannus”, i.e. from Manasseh of Israel! The Germans, who Tacitus spoke of, in large part moved westward to Britain, France, Holland, and Belgium. Others remained, especially in the west, but were numerically overwhelmed by newcomers from the east. Nevertheless, many people of Israelite descent remained in Germany, especially in the west, until around the 1800s when there was a massive migration to the USA. The migrants from Germany to America were different physically, sociologically, and ideologically from those who stayed behind. They were on the whole, less anti-Semitic or not anti-Semitic at all; more liberal and independently minded, often of non-conventional, more fundamental religious persuasion and of a different physical type. In Germany they had belonged to groups and social classes that never actually really belonged to the mainstream of historical German society. Similarly, in Britain, the migrants to America either came mostly from the west and north or they belonged to socially distinct elements that had formed a separate grouping alongside the feudal stratifications that had previously existed. In the case of Germany we have descendants of Israelites separating themselves from their non-Israelite neighbors and moving out: Often one village would remain and all inhabitants of the community next door emigrate to America. In Britain, the case is one of descendants of the tribe of Manasseh separating themselves from their Ephraimite brothers. What applies to Britain and Germany has been studied and documented but the same phenomenon appears to have taken place throughout Europe wherever people of Hebrew origin were to be found

december

29-06-2007, 12:45 AM

http://www.hunmagyar.org/turan/caucasus/index.html

lb

Thanks for the map, logic bomb.

I do know where Georgia is located and the term Caucasian people (which was invented by the German anthropologist Johann Friedrich Blumenbach some 150 years ago) and was forgotten, of course, but recently was resurrected because of "political correctness" when it became "illegal" to say simply WHITE PEOPLE, has no association with the white people what so ever.

However, considering the size of Margaret Thatcher's nose I suppose she can find some relatives over there...

:)

http://www.parliament.uk/images/upload/47692.jpghttp://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/56/Teenage_Stalin.jpg

december

29-06-2007, 07:03 PM

synergy777

29-06-2007, 07:23 PM

http://dedanaan.com/vedic-origins-children-of-danu/our-druid-cousins/

Our Druid Cousins
By Peter Berresford Ellis
Hinduism Today 2/2000

Meet the brahmins of ancient Europe, the high caste of Celtic society.

The Celtic people spread from their homeland in what is now Germany across Europe in the first millennium bce. Iron tools and weapons rendered them superior to their neighbors. They were also skilled farmers, road builders, traders and inventors of a fast two-wheeled chariot. They declined in the face of Roman, Germanic and Slavic ascendency by the second centuries bce. Here Peter Berresford Ellis, one of Europe’s foremost experts of the Celts, explains how modern research has revealed the amazing similarities between ancient Celt and Vedic culture. The Celt’s priestly caste, the Druids, has become a part of modern folklore. Their identity is claimed by New Age enthusiasts likely to appear at annual solstice gatherings around the ancient megaliths of northwest Europe. While sincerely motivated by a desire to resurrect Europe’s ancient spiritual ways, Ellis says these modern Druids draw more upon fanciful reconstructions of the 18th century than actual scholarship.

The Druids of the ancient Celtic world have a startling kinship with the brahmins of the Hindu religion and were, indeed, a parallel development from their common Indo-European cultural root which began to branch out probably five thousand years ago. It has been only in recent decades that Celtic scholars have begun to reveal the full extent of the parallels and cognates between ancient Celtic society and Vedic culture.

The Celts were the first civilization north of the European Alps to emerge into recorded history. At the time of their greatest expansion, in the 3rd century bce, the Celts stretched from Ireland in the west, through to the central plain of Turkey in the east; north from Belgium, down to Cadiz in southern Spain and across the Alps into the Po Valley of Italy. They even impinged on areas of Poland and the Ukraine and, if the amazing recent discoveries of mummies in China’s province of Xinjiang are linked with the Tocharian texts, they even moved as far east as the area north of Tibet.

The once great Celtic civilization is today represented only by the modern Irish, Manx and Scots, and the Welsh, Cornish and Bretons. Today on the northwest fringes of Europe cling the survivors of centuries of attempted conquest and “ethnic cleansing” by Rome and its imperial descendants. But of the sixteen million people who make up those populations, only 2.5 million now speak a Celtic language as their mother tongue.

The Druids were not simply a priesthood. They were the intellectual caste of ancient Celtic society, incorporating all the professions: judges, lawyers, medical doctors, ambassadors, historians and so forth, just as does the brahmin caste. In fact, other names designate the specific role of the “priests.” Only Roman and later Christian propaganda turned them into “shamans,” “wizards” and “magicians.” The scholars of the Greek Alexandrian school clearly described them as a parallel caste to the brahmins of Vedic society.

The very name Druid is composed of two Celtic word roots which have parallels in Sanskrit. Indeed, the root vid for knowledge, which also emerges in the Sanskrit word Veda, demonstrates the similarity. The Celtic root dru which means “immersion” also appears in Sanskrit. So a Druid was one “immersed in knowledge.”

Because Ireland was one of the few areas of the Celtic world that was not conquered by Rome and therefore not influenced by Latin culture until the time of its Christianization in the 5th century ce, its ancient Irish culture has retained the most clear and startling parallels to Hindu society.

Professor Calvert Watkins of Harvard, one of the leading linguistic experts in his field, has pointed out that of all the Celtic linguistic remains, Old Irish represents an extraordinarily archaic and conservative tradition within the Indo-European family. Its nominal and verbal systems are a far truer reflection of the hypothesized parent tongue, from which all Indo-European languages developed, than are Classical Greek or Latin. The structure of Old Irish, says Professor Watkins, can be compared only with that of Vedic Sanskrit or Hittite of the Old Kingdom.

The vocabulary is amazingly similar. The following are just a few examples:

Old Irish - aire (noble) | arya (freeman), Sanskrit
Old Irish - naib (good) | noeib (holy), Sanskrit
Old Irish - bodhar (deaf) | badhira (deaf), Sanskrit
Old Irish - nemed (respect) | names (respect), Sanskrit
Old Irish - righ or rí* (king) | raja (king), Sanskrit

[*Corrected from the original to what I believe is actually correct. - Aine]

This applies not only in the field of linguistics but in law and social custom, in mythology, in folk custom and in traditional musical form. The ancient Irish law system, the Laws of the Fénechus, is closely parallel to the Laws of Manu. Many surviving Irish myths, and some Welsh ones, show remarkable resemblances to the themes, stories and even names in the sagas of the Indian Vedas.

Comparisons are almost endless. Among the ancient Celts, Danu was regarded as the “Mother Goddess.” The Irish Gods and Goddesses were the Tuatha De Danaan (”Children of Danu”). Danu was the “divine waters” falling from heaven and nurturing Bí*le, the sacred oak from whose acorns their children sprang. Moreover, the waters of Danu went on to create the great Celtic sacred river–Danuvius, today called the Danube. Many European rivers bear the name of Danu–the Rhí´ne (ro-Dhanu, “Great Danu”) and several rivers called Don. Rivers were sacred in the Celtic world, and places where votive offerings were deposited and burials often conducted. The Thames, which flows through London, still bears its Celtic name, from Tamesis, the dark river, which is the same name as Tamesa, a tributary of the Ganges.

Not only is the story of Danu and the Danube a parallel to that of Ganga and the Ganges but a Hindu Danu appears in the Vedic story “The Churning of the Oceans,” a story with parallels in Irish and Welsh mytholgy. Danu in Sanskrit also means “divine waters” and “moisture.”

In ancient Ireland, as in ancient Hindu society, there was a class of poets who acted as charioteers to the warriors They were also their intimates and friends. In Irish sagas these charioteers extolled the prowess of the warriors. The Sanskrit Satapatha Brahmana says that on the evening of the first day of the horse sacrifice (and horse sacrifice was known in ancient Irish kingship rituals, recorded as late as the 12th century) the poets had to chant a praise poem in honor of the king or his warriors, usually extolling their genealogy and deeds.

Such praise poems are found in the Rig Veda and are called narasamsi. The earliest surviving poems in old Irish are also praise poems, called fursundud, which trace back the genealogy of the kings of Ireland to Golamh or Mile Easpain, whose sons landed in Ireland at the end of the second millennium bce. When Amairgen, Golamh’s son, who later traditions hail as the “first Druid,” set foot in Ireland, he cried out an extraordinary incantation that could have come from the Bhagavad Gita, subsuming all things into his being.

Celtic cosmology is a parallel to Vedic cosmology. Ancient Celtic astrologers used a similar system based on twenty-seven lunar mansions, called nakshatras in Vedic Sanskrit. Like the Hindu Soma, King Ailill of Connacht, Ireland, had a circular palace constructed with twenty-seven windows through which he could gaze on his twenty-seven “star wives.”

There survives the famous first century bce Celtic calendar (the Coligny Calendar) which, as soon as it was first discovered in 1897, was seen to have parallels to Vedic calendrical computations. In the most recent study of it, Dr. Garret Olmsted, an astronomer as well as Celtic scholar, points out the startling fact that while the surviving calendar was manufactured in the first century bce, astronomical calculus shows that it must have been computed in 1100 bce.

One fascinating parallel is that the ancient Irish and Hindus used the name Budh for the planet Mercury. The stem budh appears in all the Celtic languages, as it does in Sanskrit, as meaning “all victorious,” “gift of teaching,” “accomplished,” “enlightened,” “exalted” and so on. The names of the famous Celtic queen Boudicca, of ancient Britain (1st century ce), and of Jim Bowie (1796-1836), of the Texas Alamo fame, contain the same root. Buddha is the past participle of the same Sanskrit word–”one who is enlightened.”

For Celtic scholars, the world of the Druids of reality is far more revealing and exciting, and showing of the amazingly close common bond with its sister Vedic culture, than the inventions of those who have now taken on the mantle of modern “Druids,” even when done so with great sincerity.

If we are all truly wedded to living in harmony with one another, with nature, and seeking to protect endangered species of animal and plant life, let us remember that language and culture can also be in ecological danger. The Celtic languages and cultures today stand on the verge of extinction. That is no natural phenomenon but the result of centuries of politically directed ethnocide. What price a “spiritual awareness” with the ancient Celts when their culture is in the process of being destroyed or reinvented? Far better we seek to understand and preserve intact the Celt’s ancient wisdom. In this, Hindus may prove good allies.

The Song of Amairgen the Druid

I am the wind that blows across the sea; I am the wave of the ocean;
I am the murmur of the billows; I am the bull of the seven combats;
I am the vulture on the rock; I am a ray of the sun; I am the fairest of flowers;
I am a wild boar in valor; I am a salmon in the pool; I am a lake on the plain;
I am the skill of the craftsman; I am a word of science;
I am the spearpoint that gives battle;
I am the God who creates in the head of man the fire of thought.
Who is it that enlightens the assembly upon the mountain, if not I?
Who tells the ages of the moon, if not I?
Who shows the place where the sun goes to rest, if not I?
Who is the God that fashions enchantments–
The enchantment of battle and the wind of change?

Amairgen was the first Druid to arrive in Ireland. Ellis states, “In this song Amairgen subsumes everything into his own being with a philosophic outlook that parallels the declaration of Krishna in the Hindu Bhagavad-Gita.” It also is quite similar in style and content to the more ancient Sri Rudra chant of the Yajur Veda.

Peter Berresford Ellis is one of the foremost living authorities on the Celts and author of many books on the subject, including “Celt and Roman,” “Celt and Greek,” “Dictionary of Celtic Mythology” and “Celtic Women.” PETER BERRESFORD ELLIS, 30 GRESLEY ROAD, LONDON, N19 3JZ, ENGLAND

Source : A Tribute to Hinduism

Jat people - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Jat people are a large ethnic group mainly landlord and agricultural community spread over most of north and west of the Indian subcontinent. Traditionally, the Jat people have been landlords, agriculturalists and members of the military as soldiers and officers such as serving in the Jat Regiment. The Jat people have also produced many polictians and polictical leaders such as Prime Minister Choudhary Charan Singh. There is a strong egalitarian streak in Jat culture and are spiritual but not too religious.

Common Indo-European Ancestry of Jats

History shows that between 1000 to 3000 years ago a number of Central Asian tribes classified as Indo-Iranian/Indo-European/Indo-Aryans migrated into both Europe and South Asia. In both Europe and South Asia there are many surnames which are common. These common tribal names stayed intact in some places which were settled such as India due to a strong tradition of heritage preservation. Alternatively, these tribes may have originated from South Asia and spread into Central Asia.[29] Emminent scholars like Bains/Baines Tod, Ebbetson, Toynbee, Trevaskis, Keene, Kephart, Dhillon, Dahiya, Prakash, Bingley, Gill etc directly or indirectly connect Jats, Goths and Scythians. Jats were known as Goth in Europe, who ruled in Western Asia & some part of Europe. [30]

ARYA = EIRE

Origin of Jats from Shiva's Locks

Shiva and Parvati, a painting from Smithsonian InstituteThe mythological account of Origin of Jats from Shiva's Locks was propounded by the author of Deva Samhita. Deva Samhita,[31], [32], [33] is a collection of Sanskrit hymns by Gorakh Sinha during the early medieval period. Devasamhita records an account of the Origin of the Jats in the form of discussion between Shiva and Parvati expressed in shloka (verses). Pārvatī asks Shiva, O Lord Bhutesha, knower of all religions, kindly narrate about the birth and exploits of the Jat race. Who is their father? Who is their mother? Which race are they? When were they born? Having read the mind of Parvati, Shiva said, "O mother of the world, I may tell you honestly the origin and exploits of the Jats about whom none else has so far revealed anything to you. Some relevant verses are given below.

There is mention of Jats inDeva Samhitā[34] in the form of powerful rulers over vast plains of Central Asia. When Pārvatī asks Shiva about the origin of Jats, their antiquity and characters of Jats, Shiva tells her like this in Sanskrit shloka-15 as under:

महाबला महावीर्या, महासत्य पराक्रमाः Mahābalā mahāvīryā, Mahāsatya parākramāḥ
सर्वाग्रे क्षत्रिया जट्*टा देवकल्*पा दृढ़-व्रता: Sarvāgre kshatriyā jattā Devakalpā dridh-vratāḥ || 15 ||
Meaning - "They are symbol of sacrifice, bravery and industry. They are, like gods, firm of determination and of all the kshatriyā, the Jats are the prime rulers of the earth."

Etymology
One theory about the origin of the word, 'Jat' is that it has originated from the Sanskrit language word “Gyat” . The Mahabharata mentions in chapter 25, shloka 26 that Lord Krishna founded a federation ‘Gana-sangha’ of the Andhak and Vrishni clans. This federation was known as ‘Gyati-sangh’. Dr Natthan Singh, a Jat historian theorises, that over a period of time ‘Gyati’ became ‘Gyat’ and it may have changed to Jat.[59]

Another theory of the word's origins is that Jat came from the word Gaut tribal name of some Indo-Aryan tribes of Central Asia (such as those which later became Gauts/Goths or Jutes and settled in Europe), which was written by Jat a witer in Jattan Da Ithihas. It has also been mentioned by Jat historian Bhim Singh Dahiya.[60] Jats have many surnames common to German people even today.

According to Jat historian Ram Lal Hala, the word Jat is derived from word 'Yat'. He theorises, that there was a Chandra Vanshi king named Ushana (उशना), ancestor of Lord Krishna. Ushana was born after nine generations of Yadu. Ushana performed hundred Ashvamedha Yagyas and got the title of 'yat'. The word 'Yat' later may have changed to 'Jat'.[61

also jutes come from jatts, jutes settled in kent.

december

29-06-2007, 07:56 PM

http://dedanaan.com/vedic-origins-children-of-danu/our-druid-cousins/
The Celtic people spread from their homeland in what is now Germany across Europe in the first millennium bce.Iron tools and weapons rendered them superior to their neighbors. They were also skilled farmers, road builders, traders and inventors of a fast two-wheeled chariot. They declined in the face of Roman, Germanic and Slavic ascendency by the second centuries bce. Here Peter Berresford Ellis, one of Europe’s foremost experts of the Celts, explains how modern research has revealed the amazing similarities between ancient Celt and Vedic culture. The Celt’s priestly caste, the Druids, has become a part of modern folklore. Their identity is claimed by New Age enthusiasts likely to appear at annual solstice gatherings around the ancient megaliths of northwest Europe. While sincerely motivated by a desire to resurrect Europe’s ancient spiritual ways, Ellis says these modern Druids draw more upon fanciful reconstructions of the 18th century than actual scholarship.

OK...

We are getting closer and closer to the answer...
The only thing left to do is to explain HOW did Vedic culture get into the lands of todays Germany?...

Can you do that, synergy777?

synergy777

29-06-2007, 08:09 PM

december of course bro. as the they moved out of india, they chose the black sea and caspian sea as a base. from there they migrated into europe, althought migration took many routes they also went through anatolia(turkey) used north africa/berber = hibernia/iberia. i could do with the thing andy gray uses for football on sky, start drawing migration lines, lol

hence germany has the black forest etc. also by taking rivers aswell, the danube etc. why do you think, germany went india mad, with thule expeditions to india, to find vimana technology, which they used for their foo fighters. the the whole aryan, swastika thing.

see i get happy happy when people when they are interested in their heritage, our shared heritage . everyone should be proud of their heritage, you shouldn't hide it. the elite want you to be disconnected, so you lack compassion, unity with brothers/sisters, divide and rule. it brings us together and overcomes the elites divide and rule. see i have no business with indviduals, i have only one enemy, the nwo.

http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/584/blackseasa1.jpg

now for my rewards i would like keira knightley, lol and a season ticket for man utd, and silver tankard at me local, with my name on it.lol

december

29-06-2007, 09:37 PM

december

30-06-2007, 12:38 AM

The religion of Druidism was unlike any other belief either Celtic or Roman.

The Druids were considered to be enigmatic, mystical, magical - and resented. Originally they were a tribe in Gaul, and gradually developed over the years to become wanderers in Celtic society.

The people of the Iron Age did not understand nature or why events happened. Crop failures, infant mortality, the seasons were explained by putting any negative events down to 'the will of the gods'. So anyone who was reputed to have unknown powers was treated with distrust.

The Druids were travellers, giving guidance and wisdom to the natives of the land. Even the name 'Druid' means 'Knowledge of the oak' and 'Profound knowledge'. They were believed to be demigods, beings in human form who were somewhere between humans and the gods.

Their order was based on a strict hierarchy with an elected arch-druid. An election process that was known to degrade into physical confrontation between those involved, both as delegates and voters.

Caesar
They officiate at the worship of the gods, regulate public and private sacrifices, and give rulings on all religious questions. Large numbers of young men flock to them for instruction, and they are held in great honour by the people. They act as judges in practically all disputes whether between tribes or between individuals.

The druids were considered to be a tribe without a home, they did not pay taxes, or serve any country or tribe in war. As such, they attracted a very large number of young men as potential priests. To be admitted into Druidism involved a considerable amount of work. Candidates for admission had to learn vast quantities of information, which reputedly took many of them twenty years to absorb.

Caesar:

The Druids believe that their religion forbids them to commit their teachings to writing... but I imagine that this rule was originally established for other reasons. Because they did not want their doctrines to become public property and in order to prevent their pupils from relying on the written word and neglecting to train their memories.

This was totally false, as the Celtic language did not have a written form. The only possible communication was the oral kind. To overcome this, the Druids recorded their teachings in poetic verse. This meant they could memorise their rituals, history, folklore etc. in a much easier form. It was not until much later in history that the Celtic language was committed to paper.

Druidism had another reason to be despised by both Celt and Roman. Both societies had rituals of sacrifice in their pagan religious ceremonies. But these only involved animals. The Druids practiced the sacrifice of humans. The Romans especially condemned this action as barbaric. Hypocritical, considering the Roman lust for blood and death in the arena.

Caesar
Those who are involved in disputes assemble here from all parts and accept the Druids 'judgements and awards.'
The Romans had even more reason to want to see the Druids destroyed. The Druids were organisers , capable of bring Celt together with Celt in a united front against the Roman empire.

Druidism had three distinct levels of categories.
Bards were the recorders of history, poetry and the arts.
Augurers took charge of the religious rituals, the sacrifices and were the soothsayers, foretelling the future.
Druids were the spreaders of the religious word. Knowledgable of the law and philosophy, they were the ones who travelled amongst communities advising of issues and dispensing wisdom.

Druid rituals
One of the aspects in which Druidism was in great demand amongst Celtic society, was in the field of mystical and spiritual aid to the tribes.

If a tribe wanted their livestock to prosper and grow, they would ask the Druids to perform a particular ceremony. This involved the removal of a mistletoe plant from an oak tree. Even this action was ritualistic by cutting the mistletoe from the tree with a golden sickle and letting in fall into a white robe, thereby avoiding it coming into contact with human flesh.

Then two white bulls would be killed, while those assembled chanted prayers to the gods. The Celts believed mistletoe made into a drink could be fed to animals to make them more fertile and healthy, and was a universal cure for all poisons.

http://www.romans-in-britain.org.uk/clb_religion_druidism.htm

december

30-06-2007, 07:08 PM

MAJOR MIGRATORY MOVEMENTS

First Scythian Movements to Europe
Ca. 550 BCE: The movement of Scythians from the Middle East to north of the Caucasus began in earnest with the penetration of Scythia. Offshoots from this movement reached into Western Europe where they adopted Celtic culture.

Now we need to ask this question - who were the Scythians by blood? Were they the white people?

The mummy of the Scythian warrior was found in Mongolia, and he was a white man:

---------------------

An international group of archaeologists has unearthed a well-preserved, 2,500-year-old mummy frozen in the snowcapped mountains of Mongolia complete with blond hair, tattoos and a felt hat.

http://www.turkishdailynews.com.tr/photo/82006/m52602.jpg

The president of the German Archaeological Institute, Hermann Parzinger, hailed the "fabulous find" at a press conference to present the 28-member team's discovery in Berlin.

The Scythian warrior was found in June at a height of 2,600 meters (8,500 feet) in the Altay Mountains in an intact burial mound or kurgan.

Parzinger said the tomb was practically untouched when the team discovered it.

"We just had to sweep away some dust and could begin," he said.

Researchers said the most striking feature about the man was his light blond hair, which Parzinger acknowledged may have yellowed after his death.

The man, who was apparently well-off, was cloaked in a beaver-skin coat with sable trim and sheep's wool lining that was in remarkably good condition, and still intact skin on his upper body revealed tattoos.

Two horses with elaborately decorated saddles and bridles, weapons and wooden, clay and animal horn vessels were placed in the tomb alongside the corpse to accompany the warrior into the next life.

The recovered items are currently in storage in Ulan Bator. Parzinger said even the contents of the horses' stomachs would be examined to offer insights into the region's vegetation two centuries before Christ.

Parzinger said that until now remains of the Scythians, who were Iranian nomadic peoples, had only been found on the Russian side of the Altays. He said the new find showed that their territory was much broader than first thought.

He said the ice had helped preserve the mummy and his belongings and noted that global warming also posed a threat to such archaeological finds. He said that if the trend continues, in 20 to 30 years there would be no more ice kurgans.

http://www.turkishdailynews.com.tr/article.php?enewsid=52602&mailtofriend=1

synergy777

30-06-2007, 11:32 PM

december. first why would they, as in north indians move out of india. they moved out to seek new lands, exploration, resources, like european imperialism/colonisation. they moved out to increase riches, land etc. research romany migration, see how far indians got into europe. look at the old irish, its similar to sanskrit, do you read or just post pictures and highlight text in vulgar colours, then repost them in spam like fashion. kind of bush style, catapault the propaganda. if you had any brains, this stuff would not have to be posted again and again. talk about carrying the side. lol.

http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/669/366corrs0bn3.jpg

heres some irish, they have dark/black features, the black irish, as from iberian/aryan descent. see irish are safe, they gladly accept connection, talk about their history. you and others are on a snobby know fuck all attitude. russia is the nwo enemey, like fuck it is, it and china and nwo dream states, hence their reward of future economic growth. they are more in line with nwo than america. they detest liberal democratic republics, so make america as the bad guy. see hate the messenger, i couldn't give a fuck, but test the message, find facts to counteract the theory? you can't, you post stuff that reinforces my theory and yet fail to see it, now thats either fuuny or tragic, lol. you aim to stop the fire by pouring more paraffin on it, borat. you hate jews, but fail to realise they are controlled by the nwo. lenin, stalin were jews, and you still don't wake up. the nwo love prats like you december, you provide fertile breeding round for bullshit theories and divide and rule memes. the nwo has members of every religion/race, wake the heck up.

you love russia, the nwo and live where?

december

30-06-2007, 11:58 PM

mk72

01-07-2007, 01:48 PM

This is from Origin written by Yair Davidiy

ISRAEL IN EUROPE

MAJOR MIGRATORY MOVEMENTS
 First Scythian Movements to Europe
Ca. 550 BCE: The movement of Scythians from the Middle East to north of the Caucasus began in earnest with the penetration of Scythia. Offshoots from this movement reached into Western Europe where they adopted Celtic culture.

The Retention of Israelite Clan Names
In the Books of Genesis (chapter 46) and Numbers (chapter 26) and elsewhere in Scripture are recalled the names of clans amongst the Israelite Tribes. These clans often became entities in their own right. The Scythian and Celtic groups bore tribal names that are frequently similar to those of the Israelite clans and they are grouped together in ways that recall the original tribal formations. Groups bearing the names of clans belonging to particular Israelite tribes tended to converge on the same areas even though they had forgotten all ancestral connection with each other. This phenomenon is recorded in Scythia, in Europe, and in Britain. When these peoples moved westward the occurrence repeated itself. The process can be traced by comparing the records of archaeology, ancient geographers (such as Ptolemy), Classical historians, and legends. “The Tribes” by Yair David(i)y describes these movements and identifications in some detail.

 Royal Scythians Move Westward
Climate changes in Scythia caused “Sarmatian” groups to push the Royal Scyths westward in the period 300-100 BCE. They re-settled at first in the area of Bulgaria, then after renewed pressure continued north, ultimately to reach Scandinavia.

 Royal Scythians to Scandinavia
The Turkish Huns emerging from the Far East after 200-160 BCE attacked the Aseir (Wusun), Goths, and Sacae who also began to war amongst themselves. These events were followed by a climate change which, after 120 BCE, resulted in the desolation of Chorasmia (east of the Caspian Sea) which previously had been heavily populated. Goths and Sacae began to move westward. These movements caused a chain reaction and migrations to Scandinavia included Royal Scythians moving northward from the Balkan area. Scandinavia was re-populated in the period 100 BCE-100 CE. The Baltic coast was also heavily settled in this time, and from there more tribes were to move westward.

The Belgae
After 200 BCE the Belgae from the East began occupying northern Gaul. They were associated with a group ultimately hailing from the Middle East and Syria and known linguistically as “The Northwest Block.” They arrived in Europe via Anatolia and the Crimean region of southwest Scythia. Culturally these peoples became Celtic-Galatian. The Belgae also occupied parts of Britain and Ireland.

 Eastern Scythians Move West
From eastern Scythia, in the decades 70-50 BCE, the Western Sienbi and the Northern Hun group of Hugie, Dingling, and Gienkun moved westward. The Northern Hun group in Scythia had encompassed several smaller tribes at least some of which began to re-appear from 50 BCE in the Rhine area of Western Europe and within a hundred years had taken over the region. Archaeological evidence shows that in the time of Caesar the area of “Germany” east of the Rhine had had a type of culture (termed the “La-Tene”)
similar to that of the Belgae and Treveri in northern Gaul. Within a hundred years (i.e. by 50 CE) this culture had been completely destroyed and the region resettled by peoples bearing previously unknown names such as the Chatti, Chasuarri, Angrivarri, Ampsivarri, etc. The following examples of peoples who migrated from Scythia to Europe have the name by which they were known in the west followed in brackets by that which they had previously been called in Scythia: The Chauki (in Scythia “Cachage Scythae“), the Tubantes (Tabiene), Bructeri (Bactria), Chatti (Chatae Scythae), and the associated groups of Varni (Varini), Tigorini (Taguri), Angiloi (Augali-Aegeli,), Jutes (Iatii), Sasons (Sasones) and Scoti, Esci (Ascotacae), as well as Alans (Alans), Tectosaces (Tectosace Scythae), As (Asi), and quite a few others listed elsewhere. The area of Germany, like Scandinavia, received Tribes coming from Scythia and about to continue westward into Gaul and Britain. [“Gaul” is a term generally inclusive of modern France, Belgium, Switzerland, and Holland].

 Suebi and Saxons Move Westward
From 150-350 CE continuous warfare instigated by the Huns in East Scythia caused many more peoples to move westward amongst whom were the eastern branch of Sienbi in ca. 170 CE [The western branch of Sienbi had previously gone to Europe in about 60 BCE]. In Europe the Sienbi were generally referred to as Suebi. This movement out of Scythia to the West caused the existing peoples in Germany in the period 200-300 CE (and in some cases somewhat before that time) to be replaced by bigger groups who absorbed them. The larger groups included the Saxons, Franks, Alemani, and so on and the Suebi. The Suebi appear to be the only major body remaining as an independent entity. They had acted as precursors to the newer arrivals. They were to be closely associated with the Saxons and Alamans who settled Alsace and Switzerland.

Many of the peoples arriving in the west came via Scandinavia or had had components in the Scandinavian region. This explains why some traditions attribute a Scandinavian origin to some of these groups. The Scandinavians themselves believed that they came from (or via) Scythia.

 The Huns Push Saxons, Franks, and Others Westward
In the years 350-450 CE the Huns moved en-masse out of “Scythia“ (Eurasia) into Europe forcing most of the peoples in Scythia to accompany them or else to flee for their lives. As a result of the Hun invasions the Saxons, Franks, and Alamans received a large augmentation of manpower with the addition of new clans which (in the case of the Saxons) included those identified as Huns proper. In response to Hun pressure these greatly increased bodies overran the Western Roman Empire and settled Gaul and Britain. Goths, Vandals, Visigoths, and others also conquered formerly Roman countries. In most cases however, the conquerors were numerically insignificant when compared to the native populations. The whole process of movement, on the whole, was to continue till about 500 CE with an invasion by the “Vikings” some time later. In this period the white peoples of the East, described by the Chinese, were to disappear almost entirely and re-appear in Europe.

 The Danites and Nephtalites Move to Scandinavia
In the very far east of Scythia in what is now eastern Siberia and western China a good portion of the Naphtalite horde had remained. In the 450-500 CE period the Naphtalites began to move west eventually entering Scandinavia in the 500's and 600's CE. The Naphtalites themselves settled mainly in Norway. Sweden was populated by Goths and by Suiones descendants of Shuni (pronounceable as “Su-oni”) son of Gad (Genesis 46:16). The Naphtalites had been accompanied by Danites who ultimately moved into Denmark parts of which had previously been populated by Angles, Jutes, and other Danites. There was a tradition that the Jutes descended from Judah and the Danes from Dan.

 The Viking Invasions
The continued migrations to Scandinavia resulted in over-population, the pushing outwards of coastal populations, and subsequent overseas colonization. The Scandinavians overseas were known as the Vikings.

 The Normans
The Vikings settled in England, Ireland, Normandy (France), and elsewhere. In Normandy the Vikings accepted French Culture and were called Normans. From Normandy they invaded England in 1066.

 The Picts and Khazars
Some groups of Sacae-related Israelites including bands of Goths and Naphtali remained in the Caucasus region and adjoining areas of Scythia. These were eventually to amalgamate with the Agathyrsi and form the KHAZAR nation which converted to Judaism. Some (but not necessarily many) of their descendants are to be found today amongst the modern Jews. The real core of the Khazar nation federation was centered on the Akatziri or “Agathyrsy” as the Greeks called them. The Agathyrsi had had at one stage a section on the Baltic coast and another in Pontus by the Caucasus. At some time between 50 BCE-300 CE (more likely closer to the latter date) the Agathyrsi sent a contingent across the sea to Scotland where it became identified with the PICTS (Servius on Aenid 4.v.146). The Picts were to act more as accomplices than as opponents to the Anglo-Saxon invasion. The Picts were formidable warriors and seriously perturbed all who stood against them. Similarly, the Agathyrsi (Akatziri) in Europe were described by Jordanes (the Gothic historian) as being an extremely brave people.

The Khazars, who came from the Agathyrsi, were to convert to Judaism and had their own belief in having once been part of the Israelite nation. The Khazars were centered in Southern Russia but a small colony also existed in Sweden. The Khazars in Sweden had connections to the Anglo-Saxon colony of Hedeby in North Germany before the Angles and Saxons moved to Britain.

The Khazars and the Goths in early Medieval times were identified by Chroniclers with the Lost Ten Tribes of Israel. Similarly, the Historian Gildas in Britain (500s CE) speaks of the Celtic inhabitants of Britain as Israelites. The Anglo-Saxon historian, Bede, identified the English as the Chosen People. The Franks and Visigoths in the 7th century had similar notions. Historically many of the peoples who came westward were considered Gothic though the Goths-proper settled in Sweden. Traditions located Israelite Tribes in areas of Sacae and Gothic habitation and the different Tribal names correspond with those of Israelite entities. The Scyths, Goths, Cimmerians and related groups of Scythia were all one people, from one original stock, which was Israelite. From these nations emerged those of Western Europe.The “Barbarian” nations who invaded Europe derived from forces of the Scyths and Goths, who in turn had once been together with the Cimmerians. The Cimmerians had previously gone west and become part of the “Celtic” peoples whom the “Barbarians” were now conquering.

 From Germany to North America
The Roman historian Tacitus reported the tradition that the Germans were descended from “Mannus”, i.e. from Manasseh of Israel! The Germans, who Tacitus spoke of, in large part moved westward to Britain, France, Holland, and Belgium. Others remained, especially in the west, but were numerically overwhelmed by newcomers from the east. Nevertheless, many people of Israelite descent remained in Germany, especially in the west, until around the 1800s when there was a massive migration to the USA. The migrants from Germany to America were different physically, sociologically, and ideologically from those who stayed behind. They were on the whole, less anti-Semitic or not anti-Semitic at all; more liberal and independently minded, often of non-conventional, more fundamental religious persuasion and of a different physical type. In Germany they had belonged to groups and social classes that never actually really belonged to the mainstream of historical German society. Similarly, in Britain, the migrants to America either came mostly from the west and north or they belonged to socially distinct elements that had formed a separate grouping alongside the feudal stratifications that had previously existed. In the case of Germany we have descendants of Israelites separating themselves from their non-Israelite neighbors and moving out: Often one village would remain and all inhabitants of the community next door emigrate to America. In Britain, the case is one of descendants of the tribe of Manasseh separating themselves from their Ephraimite brothers. What applies to Britain and Germany has been studied and documented but the same phenomenon appears to have taken place throughout Europe wherever people of Hebrew origin were to be found.

synergy777

01-07-2007, 07:24 PM

mk good info, though links/source would be cool bro. december imperialism is imperialism, its the spread of empire/doctrine, no matter what means, via religion, military, economic, culture, its still an expansion. the druids were similar/from the brahmin class, the priestly class. this is the same as levites/pharasees etc in israel. the priestly class has been the most powerful, as they have the knowledge, from history, religions, occult, science. even in egypt, the priest were more powerful than the pharoah, look at how they destroyed akhenaton, the first person trying to bring a monosthetic religion to egypt. they destroyed him, as he made people worship the creator. they had a pantheon of gods, which meant more rituals, more blessings/sacrifices, hence more power/money. the clergy are in one aspect the hidden hand. kings, ceasars, emperors, presidents come and go, the clergy remain. what they looked like were indians, most probably a mix of fair/brown skinned indians. they migrated to spread doctrine and influence, as they had the knowledge, information is power.

http://www.gosai.com/chaitanya/saranagati/html/vedic-upanisads/aryan-invasion.html

The aryan invasion By Svami B.V. Giri

Introduction

The aryan invasion theory has been one of the most controversial historical topics for well over a century. However, it should be pointed out that it remains just that – a theory. To date no hard evidence has proven the aryan invasion theory to be fact. In this essay we will explain the roots of this hypothesis and how, due to recent emergence of new evidence over the last couple of decades, the validity of the aryan invasion theory has been seriously challenged.

It is indeed ironic that the origin of this theory does not lie in Indian records, but in 19th Century politics and German nationalism. No where in the Vedas, Puranas or Itihasas is there any mention of a Migration or Invasion of any kind. In 1841 M.S. Elphinstone, the first governor of the Bombay Presidency, wrote in his book History of India:

'It is opposed to their (Hindus) foreign origin, that neither in the Code (of Manu) nor, I believe, in the Vedas, nor in any book that is certainly older than the code, is there any allusion to a prior residence or to a knowledge of more than the name of any country out of India. Even mythology goes no further than the Himalayan chain, in which is fixed the habitation of the gods... .To say that it spread from a central point is an unwarranted assumption, and even to analogy; for, emigration and civilization have not spread in a circle, but from east to west. Where, also, could the central point be, from which a language could spread over India, Greece, and Italy and yet leave Chaldea, Syria and Arabia untouched? There is no reason whatever for thinking that the Hindus ever inhabited any country but their present one, and as little for denying that they may have done so before the earliest trace of their records or tradition.’

The Birth of a Misconception
Interest in the field of Indology during the 19th Century was of mixed motivations. Many scholars such as August Wilhelm von Schlegal, Hern Wilhelm von Humboldt, and Arthur Schopenhauer lauded praise upon the Vedic literatures and their profound wisdom, others were less than impressed. To accept that there was an advanced civilization outside the boundaries of Europe, at a time before the Patriarchs Abraham and Moses had made their covenant with the Almighty was impossible to conceive of for most European scholars, who harbored a strong Christian tendency. Most scholars of this period were neither archeologists nor historians in the strict sense of the word. Rather, they were missionaries paid by their governments to establish western cultural and racial superiority over the subjugated Indian citizens, through their study of the indigenous religious texts. Consequently, for racial, political and religious reasons, early European indologists created a myth that still survives to this day.

It was established by linguists that Sanskrit, Iranian and European languages all belonged to the same family, categorizing them as ‘Indo-European’ languages. It was assumed that all these people originated from one homeland where they spoke a common language (which they called ‘Proto-Indo-European’ or PIE) which later developed into Sanskrit, Latin, Greek etc. They then needed to ascertain where this homeland was. By pure speculation, it was proposed that this homeland was either southeast Europe or Central Asia.

Harappa and Mohenjo-daro
The discovery of ruins in the Indus Valley (Harappa and Mohenjo-daro) was considered by indologists like Wheeler as proof of their conjectures – that a nomadic tribe from foreign lands had plundered India. It was pronounced that the ruins dated back to a time before the Aryan Invasion, although this was actually never verified. By assigning a period of 200 years to each of the several layers of the pre-Buddhist Vedic literature, indologists arrived at a time frame of somewhere between 1500 and 1000BC for the Invasion of the Aryans. Using Biblical chronology as their sheet anchor, nineteenth century indologists placed the creation of the world at 4000BC 1 and Noah’s flood at 2500BC. They thus postulated that the Aryan Invasion could not have taken place any time before 1500BC.

Archeologists excavating the sites at Harappa and Mohenjo-daro found human skeletal remains; this seemed to them to be undeniable evidence that a large-scale massacre had taken place in these cities by the invading Aryan hordes. Prof. G. F. Dales (Former head of department of South-Asian Archaeology and Anthropology, Berkeley University, USA) in his ‘The Mythical Massacre at Mohenjo-daro’, states the following about this evidence:

Mohenjo-daro
‘What of these skeletal remains that have taken on such undeserved importance? Nine years of extensive excavations at Mohenjo-daro (1922-31) - a city of three miles in circuit - yielded the total of some 37 skeletons, or parts thereof, that can be attributed with some certainty to the period of the Indus civilizations. Some of these were found in contorted positions and groupings that suggest anything but orderly burials. Many are either disarticulated or incomplete. They were all found in the area of the Lower Town - probably the residential district. Not a single body was found within the area of the fortified citadel where one could reasonably expect the final defense of this thriving capital city to have been made…Where are the burned fortresses, the arrow heads, weapons, pieces of armor, the smashed chariots and bodies of the invaders and defenders? Despite the extensive excavations at the largest Harappan sites, there is not a single bit of evidence that can be brought forth as unconditional proof of an armed conquest and the destruction on the supposed scale of the Aryan Invasion.’
Evidence from the Vedas

It was therefore concluded that light-skinned nomads from Central Asia who wiped out the indigenous culture and enslaved or butchered the people, imposing their alien culture upon them had invaded the Indian subcontinent. They then wrote down their exploits in the form of the Rg Veda. This hypothesis was apparently based upon references in the Vedas that point to a conflict between the light-skinned Aryans and the dark-skinned Dasyus. 2 This theory was strengthened by the archeological discoveries in the Indus Valley of the charred skeletal remains that we have mentioned above. Thus the Vedas became nothing more than a series of poetic tales about the skirmishes between two barbaric tribes.

However, there are other references in the Rg Veda 3 that point to India being a land of mixed races. The Rg Veda also states that "We pray to Indra to give glory by which the Dasyus will become Aryans." 4 Such a statement confirms that to be an Aryan was not a matter of birth.

An inattentive skimming through the Vedas has resulted in a gross misinterpretation of social and racial struggles amongst the ancient Indians. North Aryans were pitted against the Southern Dravidians, high-castes against low-castes, civilized orthodox Indians against barbaric heterodox tribals. The hypothesis that of racial hatred between the Aryans and the dark-skinned Dasyus has no sastric foundation, yet some ‘scholars’ have misinterpreted texts to try to prove that there was racial hatred amongst the Aryans and Dravidians (such as the Rg Veda story of Indra slaying the demon Vrta 5 ).

Based on literary analysis, many scholars including B.G. Tilak, Dayananda Saraswati and Aurobindo dismissed any idea of an Aryan Invasion. For example, if the Aryans were foreign invaders, why is it that they don’t name places outside of India as their religious sites? Why do the Vedas only glorify holy places within India?

Max Mueller : What is an ‘Aryan’?

The Sanskrit word ‘Aryan’ refers to one who is righteous and noble. It is also used in the context of addressing a gentleman (Arya-putra, Aryakanya etc). 6 Nowhere in the Vedic literature is the word used to denote race or language. This was a concoction by Max Mueller who, in 1853, introduced the word ‘Arya’ into the English language as referring a particular race and language. He did this in order to give credibility to his Aryan race theory (see Part 2). However in 1888, when challenged by other eminent scholars and historians, Mueller could see that his reputation was in jeopardy and made the following statement, thus refuting his own theory -

"I have declared again and again that if I say Aryas, I mean neither blood nor bones, nor hair, nor skull; I mean simply those who speak an Aryan language...to me an ethnologist who speaks of Aryan race, Aryan blood, Aryan eyes and hair, is as great a sinner as a linguist who speaks of a dolichocephalic dictionary or a brachycephalic grammar."
(Max Mueller, Biographies of Words and the Home of the Aryas, 1888, pg 120)

But the dye had already been cast! Political and Nationalist groups in Germany and France exploited this racial phenomenon to propagate the supremacy of an assumed Aryan race of white people. Later, Adolf Hitler used this ideology to the extreme for his political hegemony and his barbaric crusade to terrorize Jews, Slavs and other racial minorities, culminating in the holocaust of millions of innocent people.

According to Mueller’s etymological explanation of ‘Aryan’, the word is derived from ‘ar’ (to plough, to cultivate). Therefore Arya means ‘a cultivator, or farmer’. This is opposed to the idea that the Aryans were wandering nomads. V.S. Apte's Sanskrit-English Dictionary relates the word Arya to the root ‘r-’ to which the prefix ‘a’ has been added in order to give a negating meaning. Therefore the meaning of Arya is given as ‘excellent, best’, followed by ‘respectable’ and as a noun, ‘master, lord, worthy, honorable, excellent,’ ‘upholder of Arya values, and further: teacher, employer, master, father-in-law, friend.’

more at the link. if you dare to crush the hoax you believed in. this is why its ironic, the hate for hitler, one hand everybody hates him, on the other hand its his half baked fantasy you use as the foundation for you superiority, its over.

1 creator, 1 race, 1 love, its logical.

december

01-07-2007, 08:40 PM

Synergy777, how did they look like?

Did they look like these soldiers?

http://img.rian.ru/images/5971/90/59719077.jpg

Or like this movie actor?

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i308/Nicola_Canadian/india/roshanviilx5.jpg

synergy777

01-07-2007, 08:46 PM

they were a mix, as i wasn't there with a camera, i will base their appearence on their peers, people of same origin, north indians. did you read the aryan myth, or is it getting painful bro. as i read your posts, i expect the same courtesy. so future correspondance will rely on you reading posts and not just reposting them in a spam like manner. i am a jeremey paxman apprentice, so try harder, lol

december

01-07-2007, 09:12 PM

they were a mix, as i wasn't there with a camera...

Well, if you were not there with a camera than how can you say that they (the original Druids) were a mix?
synergy777, I think to prove your point you need to post pictures of Irish men (if the Druids escaped to Ireland) who look like Hindu people.

If your theory is correct, than you should be able to find Hindu looking people in Ireland who came from India as you claim.

But let's say it was the other way around - people from the North came to India, and some of them decided to settle there.
To prove my point I post the picture of India's actor Hrithik Roshan, who REALLY DOES LOOK LIKE EUROPEAN MAN:

Hrithik Roshan (Hindi: ऋतिक रोशन, Urdu: رتک روشن, pronunciation: /rɪt̪ɪk roːʃən/) (born Hrithik Roshanlal Nagrath on January 10, 1974), is a prominent Bollywood actor and five time Filmfare Award winner.

Born January 10, 1974 (1974-01-10) (age 33) Mumbai, Maharashtra, India.

Roshan's first movie role was as a child artist when he was six years old in the 1980 movie Aasha, when he appeared in a dance sequence as an extra. Roshan went on to appear in Aap Ki Deewane (1980) and Bhagwan Dada (1986) playing minor roles. Roshan then became an assistant director for his father's films Karan Arjun (1995) and Koyla (1997).

Hrithik Roshan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://www.funmunch.com/celebrities/actors/hrithik_roshan/hrithik_roshan_images/hrithik_roshan_04.jpg

synergy777

02-07-2007, 01:46 PM

how thick can you get, dominant/recessive genes, if europeans came, they would be no europeans left, as our genes are stronger, dominant. read about genes, thats why i say take a holistic view, not the myopic view which coveinently supports your house of cards agenda. its getting tiredsome, i will try to ignore your posts as they are infantile. europeans only like debate which supports their view, anything contary is avoided/ignored.i haven't the energy to waste on prats. also why would europeans come to india without any culture, religion, language, texts. your languages come from us, your numbers, do you read or just drink vodka between posts. shouldn't europe have an ancient empire on par with vedic india, egypt, angkor wat. where are you your ancient buildings, texts, languages, religions, show me? there aren't any, castles were built by normans, the greeks/romans civilised europe, until the germanic barb-arian tribes looted rome. these barb-arians became germans/french/english, north europe. i even show you indians, tell you about genetic diversity. dominant/recessive, and still your programming/cultural prejudice keeps control. thats why we asiatic call you europeans clones, like star wars, lol. 1, you come from a small gene pool, due to history/migration, two, you all think the same act like clones/borgs, souless robots. there are few who are different, but even they get stick from fellow europeans for being anti mainsteram/race traiitors. etc december you really are ignoramus. i shall not waste my time on those who refuse to view data objectively, go and read blavtsky, muller, and mein kampf, get a picture of white jesus, and be on your way.

http://www.bitsofnews.com/content/view/5773/44/

Viking Age Inca Indian Found in Norwegian Burial Ground?
Monday, 25 June 2007 Written by Alexander G. Rubio

Skull fragments from the find, (Click for larger image)It has long been known that Viking explorers, traders, and settlers made their way across the North Atlantic, first to the North Sea Islands, then to Iceland and Greenland, and even to the Newfoundland area of North America.

But the accepted narrative is that the forays into the American continent proper were brief, and their contact with the native peoples there was nasty, brutish, and short. But a 1000 year old skeleton found in a burial ground in Norway shows traits usually only found in Inca Indians.

The remains were found at the old St. Nicolas church. (Photo: Christian Nygaard-Monsen/NRK)

The sagas of the of the Scandinavian voyages during the Viking Age, written mostly in Iceland some time after the events, recorded that Leif Eriksson, son of Erik the Red, who had discovered Greenland, made landfall on what he called Vinland, probably modern day Newfoundland around the year 1000 AD.

These voyages were part of that last outcrop of the great migrations of peoples that had once overwhelmed the Roman Empire. Scandinavians, starved for arable land in their native countries, or exiled by the political turmoil leading to the unification of these countries into what was to become the kingdoms of Denmark, Sweden, and Norway, went abroad looking for opportunities elsewhere, whether that be through trade, settlement, or plunder.

Viking lands and routes of trade and conquest.
(Click for larger image)The Swedes tended to go east, across the Baltic Sea and down the river systems of eastern Europe and present day Russia, which they had a pivotal role in founding. The Danes went mainly to England and France, where their descendants would settle the region of Normandy. While the Norwegians, seafarers by nature, due to their long coastline and lack of farmland, struck out across the North Sea, to the North of England, Scotland, Ireland, and to the islands in the north Atlantic, and eventually North America.

We know that they encountered natives on their voyages there. But how they could have come across a south American Indian, or a he make his way to the north east coastal regions of Canada, would seem to defy imagination.

Archaeologists working on the conservation of the ruins of the old St. Nicolas church at Borgarsyssel in the Norwegian city of Sarpsborg came across some skeletal remains by accident, as they were removing some rose bushes. "As we pulled out the rose bushes, bones just poured out," archaeologist at Borgarsyssel Museum, Mona Beate Buckholm told Norwegian Public Broadcasting NRK.

Leif Eriksson Sights Land in America
Christian Krohg, 1893 (Click for larger image)It turned out to be the remains of two older men and an infant. And it was the skull of one of the men that puzzled the forensic archaeologists. "A particular bone at the back of the head was not fused. This is an inherited trait found almost exclusively among the Incas of Peru," Buckholm added. To this day, no other example of this trait has been found in Norway. "While it is tempting to speculate, seeing as St. Nicolas is the patron saint of sailors, it's hard to imagine a Peruvian making his way here at the time. This is quite puzzling."

As one would almost expect with such a maritime culture, there have been finds in the past of people from far off lands ending up in ancient Scandinavia. One such example was the recent DNA evidence that one of the women buried in the royal tomb at Oseberg, one of the most famous Viking Age finds of all time, turned out to be of Black Sea origin. But this would be on another scale entirely.

If, and this is still a massive if at this time, further tests and excavations could turn up corroborating evidence for an American link, and the find turns out to not be another Piltdown Man, or simply a very anomalous individual, it would be a sensational discovery, turning established views on pre-Columbian contacts between Europe and the Americas on their head. Right now though, that is speculation more fit for Hollywood movies than science journals

heres a map showing more migrations. look at danube/black sea etc.

http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/1282/vikingvoyagesmaplargeqf5.png

klinker

02-07-2007, 01:58 PM

Well, if you were not there with a camera than how can you say that they (the original Druids) were a mix?
synergy777, I think to prove your point you need to post pictures of Irish men (if the Druids escaped to Ireland) who look like Hindu people.

If your theory is correct, than you should be able to find Hindu looking people in Ireland who came from India as you claim.

But let's say it was the other way around - people from the North came to India, and some of them decided to settle there.
To prove my point I post the picture of India's actor Hrithik Roshan, who REALLY DOES LOOK LIKE EUROPEAN MAN:

Hrithik Roshan (Hindi: ऋतिक रोशन, Urdu: رتک روشن, pronunciation: /rɪt̪ɪk roːʃən/) (born Hrithik Roshanlal Nagrath on January 10, 1974), is a prominent Bollywood actor and five time Filmfare Award winner.

Born January 10, 1974 (1974-01-10) (age 33) Mumbai, Maharashtra, India.

Roshan's first movie role was as a child artist when he was six years old in the 1980 movie Aasha, when he appeared in a dance sequence as an extra. Roshan went on to appear in Aap Ki Deewane (1980) and Bhagwan Dada (1986) playing minor roles. Roshan then became an assistant director for his father's films Karan Arjun (1995) and Koyla (1997).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hrithik_Roshan

http://www.funmunch.com/celebrities/actors/hrithik_roshan/hrithik_roshan_images/hrithik_roshan_04.jpg

December. Having read through this thread it seems to me that you are being painfully obtuse to the point of making my teeth itch or you are simply taking the piss.

synergy777

02-07-2007, 01:59 PM

jeff, cheers bro, i thought it just me, lol

december

12-07-2007, 10:59 PM

december

13-07-2007, 02:54 AM

http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/669/366corrs0bn3.jpg

heres some irish, they have dark/black features, the black irish, as from iberian/aryan descent. see irish are safe, they gladly accept connection, talk about their history.

OK.

I agree - the Irish people do have dark hair, but what does it prove?
According to YOUR theory people have to get LIGHTER when they move North. So, I see that your logic doesn't work here... :)

What is the source of that picture, by the way?

Synergy777, I found two pictures of typical Irish girls.
Can you find the same faces in India?

http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z61/Andresh-photos/15.jpg

http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z61/Andresh-photos/16.jpg

The religion of Druidism was unlike any other belief either Celtic or Roman.

The Druids were considered to be enigmatic, mystical, magical - and resented. Originally they were a tribe in Gaul, and gradually developed over the years to become wanderers in Celtic society.

http://www.romans-in-britain.org.uk/clb_religion_druidism.htm

december

13-07-2007, 06:43 PM

Synergy777, are you suggesting that there was mass migration of people from India to Europe?

And one more question - do these girls look kind of the same?

http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z61/Andresh-photos/16.jpghttp://www.gordeeva.com/photo/dasha/katia_2002_4.jpg

The religion of Druidism was unlike any other belief either Celtic or Roman.

The Druids were considered to be enigmatic, mystical, magical - and resented. Originally they were a tribe in Gaul, and gradually developed over the years to become wanderers in Celtic society.

http://www.romans-in-britain.org.uk/clb_religion_druidism.htm

synergy777

13-07-2007, 06:58 PM

post some pics of hot raven haired girls, even redheads, and i might let you know, lol

december

13-07-2007, 07:32 PM

post some pics of hot raven haired girls, even redheads, and i might let you know, lol

OK. But the color of the hair is NOT important. But what IS important is facial bone structure.

So, how about these two? They live HUNDRENDS of miles apart...

:)

http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z61/Andresh-photos/16.jpghttp://www.gordeeva.com/photo/red_square_94/rs1.jpg

So, what are you going to let me know? Are you saying that there was mass migration of people from India to Europe thousands of years ago?

And I am still waiting for pictures from India....
Where are they?

:)

synergy777

13-07-2007, 08:00 PM

http://galleries.lycos.co.uk/v/Entertainment/Celebrities/bollywood-babes/?g2_GALLERYSID=c5bdc59f20cda7abf3966511d1449bfc

bro we have too many beautiful bollywood actresses, just have a look.

http://wallpapers.oneindia.in/v/album07-Bollywood-Actresses-Wallpapers/

http://wallpapers.oneindia.in/v/album07-Bollywood-Actresses-Wallpapers/?g2_page=2

http://wallpapers.oneindia.in/v/album07-Bollywood-Actresses-Wallpapers/?g2_page=3

http://movies.indiainfo.com/gallery/view_album.php?set_albumName=album15-Bollywood-actresses

synergy777

13-07-2007, 08:09 PM

thanks december, i juts realised in one country, we have better looking women than your continent combined, lol cheers bro.

synergy777

13-07-2007, 08:28 PM

http://www.coolbuddy.com/wallpapers/INDCELEB/indceleb_home.htm

john white

13-07-2007, 09:20 PM

jeff, cheers bro, I thought it just me, lol

Oh of coruse its not just you Syn. Do try not to get frustrated with December though, he only makes threads so he can poslytise his beliefs, click on a December thread and you know what your getting!

They have been getting better actualy IMO

december

13-07-2007, 09:49 PM

thanks december, i juts realised in one country, we have better looking women than your continent combined, lol cheers bro.

Synergy777, I do know that you like to make VERY strange statements such as this one on Illusions forum:

it should not be done to females or males, but its the same thing they do to blokes who get circumsised, they cut off your nerve endings. its ritual, jews, muslims, christians all get it done.

And when I asked you to explain who told you that Christians get circumsised, you pretend that you didn't see the question... :(

You also said number of times that all white people have to be killed, and that you f*ck like rabits, so soon you will overpower the Whites simply by the numbers...

Of course I decided to ignore all that, :) but now you're twisting like a snake, switching subject to God knows what... and refusing to answer simple questions, such as this one:

Synergy777, are you suggesting that there was a mass migration of people from India to Europe?

Why do I ask you that question? It is because you've made an interesting claim (see the first page of this thread):

december of course bro. as the they moved out of india, they chose the black sea and caspian sea as a base. from there they migrated into europe, althought migration took many routes they also went through anatolia(turkey) used north africa/berber = hibernia/iberia. i could do with the thing andy gray uses for football on sky, start drawing migration lines, lol

http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/584/blackseasa1.jpg

So...
It is not clear:

1. Who moved OUT of India.

2. Why did they move OUT of India.

3. And how many of them moved OUT of India?

Synergy777, you maybe right in you theory... I just want to learn more...

:)

john white

13-07-2007, 10:02 PM

Hey December!

It may not be common, but just a teensie weensie bit of research will tell you that there are indeed some christians who practise circumsison

Christians circumcision - Google Search

them

13-07-2007, 10:13 PM

A bit dry, but worth assimilating.

High resolution history using haploid markers
The identification in recent years of a large number of SNPs on the NRY and mtDNA has afforded higher resolution of population history through the reconstruction of the phylogenetic relationships of extant Y chromosomes and mtDNA (Fig. 4). Using the nomenclature developed by the Y Chromosome Consortium114, the first two haplogroups (Fig. 4a; A and B) are almost completely African and even today represent mostly hunter-gatherers or their descendants, who have never reached high population densities or undergone high rates of increase. Slow growth is indicated by the accumulation of many mutations within a branch, as in most descendants of haplogroup A and B and in those of the earliest branches of haplogroups C, D, E and F. By contrast, when there are many branches (called a starburst) after a specific mutation or group of mutations, we can infer rapid growth115, 116. The major expansions are those of haplogoup F (seven branches) after an initial lag in population growth, and even more remarkable is the later expansion of haplogroup K (nine branches). These began in the last 40 kya and led to the major settlement of all continents from Africa, first to Asia, and from Asia to the other three continents. The tree of mtDNA (Fig. 4b) is more bushy, but there are more haplogroups because of the higher mutation rate. The general structures of the male and female genealogies in Figure 4 are the same. The earliest branches all remain in Africa; in both trees they clearly refer to the slowly growing hunter-gatherers. In both trees the major growth in Africa is due to a late branch, taking place in the second part of the last 100,000 years and clearly connected with the expansion to Asia. The M, N branches of the mtDNA phylogeny indicate the separation of the expansion from Africa to Asia into a southern and a northern branch. In the NRY genealogy, the southern branch is on average earlier than the northern, and includes mostly haplogroups C, D, H, M and L. Of these, H and L remained in India and part of C went to Oceania, the rest to Mongolia, Siberia, and eventually to northwest America (Na-Dene speakers). D went as far as southeast Asia and Japan. The northern Asian expansion remains mostly in East Asia (haplogroup O—its branch N has a major propagule to N.E. Europe, among Uralic speakers). Haplogroup I from north Asia generates what is probably the first major Paleolithic expansion to central Europe. G and J are found today in the Middle East and from there expanded to Europe, mostly in the south and probably with Neolithic farmers. R is found in Europe, India, Pakistan, and America, but an early branch seems to have returned to the central part of the Sahel in North Africa. Haplogroup Q generates most Amerinds, except for Na-Dene speakers and Eskimos. Haplogroup I is also found in north and central Europe, where it probably originated around 20,000 kya. A few indigenous individuals in America and Australia probably inherited European Y chromosomes.

I can post more on the background to this if anybody wants.

synergy777

13-07-2007, 10:35 PM

i posted data from a world reknowned authority on dna, with migration map, december ignored it. i even posted vedic stuff about celts, the language not english but olde irish is practically the same as indian/sanskrit. theres so much info, connecting, proving it. if the irish admit, but russians, etc don't acknowldge it, you know what, its not your history, its the irish's. they recognise it, so can go and feck off.

the english don't even recognise their german/french/danish/dutch heritage, never mind indo. why, i tell you, they are snobby, they think they are the master race, purer than everyone, above everyone. when they should celebrate their mixture, they detest it. you got a german queen and yet hate the germans, work that one out. now what do the elite gain from you hating the french/germans ?,what would they get if you were united with them?

why the fuck can't people from all races drop their bullshit purity delusion, and see all races come from africa, the motherland.

indians, orientals, europeans all come from there, but stick their nose up at the very mention of it, why, not proud of egypt, not proud of hebrews, oh shit, WE are the hebrews, egyptians, atlanteans, martians,lol.

we really ALL are bunch of arrogant gits, the human race. don't know much, but we know everything, lol if i was god, i'd start again, lol

all i ask, how did it come to this?

december

13-07-2007, 10:53 PM

...
....why the fuck can't people from all races drop their bullshit purity delusion, and see all races come from africa, the motherland....
...

Synergy777, I am sorry, but are you in some BAR right now and you cannot really concentrate because of all the noisy people and music?

Are we discussing Africa here? :D

No.

We are trying to discuss the Druids.

It was YOU who said that "they" came out of India. And i said that you could be correct. So, why are you twisting like snake again and getting emotional?... :)

What are you trying to do now? Start some communist meeting?...

Can you at least answer this question (from the first page)?

3. Are there stone idols in India like this one?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/22/Skifskaya_baba.png/150px-Skifskaya_baba.png

:)

december of course bro. as the they moved out of india, they chose the black sea and caspian sea as a base. from there they migrated into europe, althought migration took many routes they also went through anatolia(turkey) used north africa/berber = hibernia/iberia. i could do with the thing andy gray uses for football on sky, start drawing migration lines, lol

So... where did you read about it? :)

synergy777

13-07-2007, 11:28 PM

i am in vodka bar, with nice russian blonde giving a me a blow job, whilst dictating to another blonde who has my laptop, lol

the indians (originally from africa, after adapting to different climates of india) were now of different colours, which you can see in indian families/populations today. compare a north indian to south/sri lankan. they as a people migrated out wave after wave in search of new lands, to flee religous persecution, to seek wealth, a better life as migrants do, to go forth and multiply, also i think empire lol.

as the migration took many directions, and occured many a time. there was not one massive migration, imagine the logistics. so i guess, like trade routes were set up, a "road/route" was set up, it was an incremental migration in many directions.

one went to russia/turkey/east europe, one to china, one went aghan/iran/iraq/israel/egypt. this last one was the hyskos one. the egyptians, middle easterns, all recognise this. if you read about the hyskos invasions, they took over the indigneous egyptians, the africans. hence todays egyptians are not the indigenous ones, the indigenous were from punt/kush eg ethiopia/sudan/somalia.

before this, africa/india were the same knigdom, eg naga kings, dravids etc. the capital was in ethiopia, look at haile selassie, he to me looks like an indian, but he is african. africans state, history/genetics/lingusitics etc, that indians are migrated africans, who have adapted to the new environment.

so the indians that migrated to persia, egypt set up residence there, after taking over/invasion. look at the annunaki, persian artwork, they are indian, this was known as mesopotamia.these later with africans moved into greece, north africa, south italy, later the moors went into spain/portugal.

now from the other migrating base, between black/caspian sea/caucasus mountains/georgia, the russian/turkey-anatolia/east europe side, came another set of migrating indians. who due to climate had become lighter. this is why, turkey was known as the link between asia/europe, asia minor, the byzantine.

then we had these tribes moving into north europe, with the mesopotamian moving into north africa/south europe. around romans times, is when the populations, started to split up into two major factions. rome is the key empire, its the transition point/power shift from asia/africa to europe. remember rome had egypt/israel, and turkey/constanople-now istanbul. the roman empire was split into two, the west and eastern. the capital of the west empire being roma, the east being constanople/istanbul.

however here the twist, i think, by judging by relics in europe, neolithic stones, and the monuments/cultures in the americas/australia, there were migrations that started way before this, way before the biblical timeline. could this be the time of lemuria/atlantis.

right its friday, i need alcohol and weed,lol

them

13-07-2007, 11:47 PM

December, please could you post additional resources, to browse, relevant to the Kurgan hypothesis?

http://www.inrne.bas.bg/Varna2005/sights/varna-3.jpg

december

14-07-2007, 12:23 AM

December, please could you post additional resources, to browse, relevant to the Kurgan hypothesis?

If you are referring to the Scythian gold, then you can find plenty of it in the Hermitage Museum, St. Petersburg, Russia -

http://www.metmuseum.org/special/Golden%20Deer/images/156.L.jpg

In Russia the collecting of gold objects belonging to the "barbarian" cultures of the Eurasian plains began in the years 1715-18. It was at that time that on the orders of Peter the Great Prince Matvei Gagarin sent to St Petersburg two hundred ancient gold artefacts that became known as the Siberian Collection of Peter I. The majority of these pieces that included magnificent belt plates and clasps bearing scenes of animals fighting, torques and bracelets, often adorned with turquoises, were bought from robbers of ancient graves. In the middle of the 19th century, the Siberian Collection was given to the Hermitage which is also where the Imperial Archaeological Commission, created in 1859 to seek out and study antiquities, sent the Scythian and Sarmatian artefacts from the steppes north of the Black Sea.

http://www.hermitagemuseum.org/html_En/12/2004/hm12_1_19_00.html

Virtual Exhibition: The Treasure Gallery: Scythian Gold

http://www.hermitagemuseum.org/html_En/12/2004/hm12_1_19_00_0.html

The Hermitage collection of Scythian antiquities is renowned worldwide, its nucleus consisting of finds from burial complexes in the Crimea, Kuban basin and in the valleys of the Dnieper and Don rivers.

The most attractive feature of the collection is the abundance of articles of applied art from a variety of schools and trends, with objects created in the Scythian Animal style, and items made by Greek craftsmen or imported from Oriental countries and the nearby Classical centers to the North of Black Sea and intended for Scythian noblemen.

According to Scythian tradition, alongside a dead chief the tribe buried his wives, servants, armour-bearers, grooms and horses, and these burials thus contain numerous artifacts, from weapons and harness to everyday objects and a multiplicity of personal adornments.

http://www.hermitagemuseum.org/html_En/03/hm3_2_6.html

http://www.hermitagemuseum.org/imgs_En/03/artwork/e3_2_6b_scythian_gold_shield_emblem.jpg

http://www.metmuseum.org/special/Golden%20Deer/images/146.L.jpg

them

14-07-2007, 12:05 PM

Thank you for the information, December.

Scythian - Scythians - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Kurgan - Kurgan hypothesis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Thracian - Thracians - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Tumulus - Tumulus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://www.novinite.com/media/images/2005-05/big_47779.jpg

december

14-07-2007, 07:49 PM

Thank you for the information, December.

Kurgan - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurgan_hypothesis

My pleasure, Them. :)

This is actually what I am trying to tell people in WHERE DID WHITE PEOPLE COME FROM thread...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5a/IE_expansion.png

Map of Indo European migrations from ca. 4000 to 1000 BC according to the Kurgan model. The Anatolian migration (indicated with a dotted arrow) could have taken place either across the Caucasus or across the Balkans. The purple area corresponds to the assumed Urheimat (Samara culture, Sredny Stog culture). The red area corresponds to the area which may have been settled by Indo-European-speaking peoples up to ca. 2500 BC, and the orange area by 1000 BC.

Kurgan hypothesis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Of course there is FAR MORE INFORMATION available....
And in case someone didn't know - the kurgans (sand pyramids) are built in Russia even today...

This one, for example, was built in 1967 on the 21st km of highway between Moscow and Minsk in Belarus to commemorate Victory over Nazi Germany...

http://photoclub.by/images/main1/17662_main.jpg

http://www.belorussia2006.info/images/img_2331.jpg

http://www.belintourist.by/i/photo/minsk/minsk_tours_06.jpg

If you want to learn more - just ask....

anoninnyc

17-07-2007, 04:16 AM

i am in vodka bar, with nice russian blonde giving a me a blow job, whilst dictating to another blonde who has my laptop, lol

I completely missed this line before and really don't see the humor in the degradation of women. and what is with your emphasis on them being blonde? I am not sure what your point is. Do you especially like blonde women or just enjoy objectifying them? Would you like for your daughter to be treated this way?

synergy777

17-07-2007, 04:15 PM

anoninnyc

17-07-2007, 05:50 PM

ohh tofu eating thought police, have i been non pc lol. bloody hell, can't this forum have some laddish wit. this pakis getting all fresh with our blondes, lol

why do you guys act like chicks, miss the data but get all hysterical about the jokes, is this genuine or a stalling exercise. first its a joke, however, if i had the chance to have fun with two blondes, i admit it, i'm a sinner, i would happlily oblige, lol. i know its not the right way to treat women, but its a joke. why don't you guys go join the pc crowd, mary whitehouse fan club.

also one my daughter would be independant, informed and value herself, have self esteem, know her value and would not let a man treat her this way, she would run him, lol. secondly she would have brothers, family, who would have to take the chap for few ground rules, make her happy, we happy, make her sad, emigrate, capish lol

heres a lovely blonde, although december hates america, and you guys love him, thats up to you.

First of all I am acting like a chick because I am one, fool and your "laddish wit" is just nonsense that makes light of the degradation of women. And your daughter will see you as the male role model in her life. Now what is your obsession with blondes? I really would like to know. Is it a self-hatred thing you have going on? And I don't really care if December hates Americans.... I think he is an idiot if it is true that he hates a whole nation of people.... but whatever. If he starts talking vulgar trash about women and bjs then he will piss me off though.

december

17-07-2007, 06:01 PM

I completely missed this line before and really don't see the humor in the degradation of women. and what is with your emphasis on them being blonde? I am not sure what your point is. Do you especially like blonde women or just enjoy objectifying them? Would you like for your daughter to be treated this way?

On this OFFICIAL David Icke forum it is aparantly OK to hate white people and post filthy pornagraphic messages, but when someone posts an INFORMATION about the Jews, the moderators close the thread and/or write threatening letters to the private box of the poster.

Well, this makes me wonder - WHO really runs this forum... :cool:

So, why is there SO MUCH HATE towards white people here?

Does David Icke know what's going on on his forum or is he no longer into Infinite Love?

december

17-07-2007, 06:08 PM

Some people do their best to SH*T here, and it is just fine with moderators for some reason....

Well.... Well... Well...

But I will try ONE MORE time to restart the conversation about the original topic of this thread.

So....

Synergy777, are you suggesting that there was mass migration of people from India to Europe?

And one more question - do these girls look kind of the same?

http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z61/Andresh-photos/16.jpghttp://www.gordeeva.com/photo/dasha/katia_2002_4.jpg

The religion of Druidism was unlike any other belief either Celtic or Roman.

The Druids were considered to be enigmatic, mystical, magical - and resented. Originally they were a tribe in Gaul, and gradually developed over the years to become wanderers in Celtic society.

http://www.romans-in-britain.org.uk/clb_religion_druidism.htm

synergy777

17-07-2007, 06:21 PM

lumukanda

17-07-2007, 06:22 PM

OMG december, there was a mass migration of people from india to europe, they were called Celts, you can follow the trail my friend, and try and respond in your own words, i know you can do it!

synergy777

17-07-2007, 06:31 PM

maybe decmber thats why the european movement towards being aryan, was an attempt to reconnect back to the land of their ancient origins, india. it however got hijacked by max muller, adolf hitler and madame blvatsky etc. just because they tainted it, doesn't mean you should stop looking at it. if they knew were you where from, i'd say it was an informed descision and not some whim created from wanderlust. they went to india/tibet, with the thule society to find vedic texts, vedic tech eg vimanas, which they used for their foo fighter/ufos. which after ww2, operation paperclip was created, to continue the work. hence the tech explosion post ww2. the swastika is a symbol of good luck, and its now connected with nazis, and it was ours, the worlds vedic culture.

luma cheers bro, 1 love

also the self hatred, lady its only hair colour, from a bottle, get over it. most blondes are brunettes anyway, so the dumb blonde thing is false, in fact one could deduce that brunettes are dumber, lol i'm only joking. also is it a hatred thing from your angle, a brownie/sand nigger/towel head liking a blonde, the last time that happened, they killed her, her fiance and her baby in a tunnel in paris.

anoninnyc

17-07-2007, 06:38 PM

i would like to show jessica simpson some love, whats wrong with that, like hippies said make love not war, all this hate is just so terrible, bad karma maaan lol also why does bjs piss you off, if it was a bloke practicing cunning linguistics, lol, would that piss you off. theres a rap group called cunning lynguists, they are pretty dam good. or would fellatio be more appropiate madam, lol

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=cunning+lynguistics&btnG=Google+Search&meta=

sis, you ned to chill. it some jokes, ffs. get serious about something really important. as for my daughter, she would know her dad was a jovial person/eccentric, better than being a miserable git.

bjs do not piss me off..... they are a good thing.... it is all context. the getting one while you dictate to another blonde using your laptop. it is all context. and nothing is wrong with liking blonde women, but you do seem oddly obsessed. whatever, i would really rather not discuss this topic any further.

anoninnyc

17-07-2007, 06:41 PM

also the self hatred, lady its only hair colour, from a bottle, get over it. most blondes are brunettes anyway, so the dumb blonde thing is false, in fact one could deduce that brunettes are dumber, lol i'm only joking. also is it a hatred thing from your angle, a brownie/sand nigger/towel head liking a blonde, the last time that happened, they killed her, her fiance and her baby in a tunnel in paris.

first of all from my angle, i find the words you used to describe dodi al fayed incredibly insulting. why do you assume that i am "white", whatever that means? i think that we should show respect for white people just as you would for any other color.....

december

17-07-2007, 07:02 PM

OMG december, there was a mass migration of people from india to europe, they were called Celts, you can follow the trail my friend, and try and respond in your own words, i know you can do it!

Where did you read about it?

december

17-07-2007, 07:03 PM

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5a/IE_expansion.png

Map of Indo European migrations from ca. 4000 to 1000 BC according to the Kurgan model. The Anatolian migration (indicated with a dotted arrow) could have taken place either across the Caucasus or across the Balkans. The purple area corresponds to the assumed Urheimat (Samara culture, Sredny Stog culture). The red area corresponds to the area which may have been settled by Indo-European-speaking peoples up to ca. 2500 BC, and the orange area by 1000 BC.

Kurgan hypothesis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The kurgans (sand pyramids) are built in Russia even today...

This one, for example, was built in 1967 on the 21st km of highway between Moscow and Minsk in Belarus to commemorate Victory over Nazi Germany...

http://photoclub.by/images/main1/17662_main.jpg

http://www.belorussia2006.info/images/img_2331.jpg

http://www.belintourist.by/i/photo/minsk/minsk_tours_06.jpg

synergy777

17-07-2007, 08:00 PM

http://www.vurdon.it/english.htm

roma are from panjab, one love.

synergy777

17-07-2007, 08:02 PM

ok my bad, anoninyc, justy check the romany link, a very good map. i apologise for my rudeness.

lumukanda

17-07-2007, 08:33 PM

Where did you read about it?

well i first actually heard about it while listening to the music of loreena mckennit, who has studied the origins of celtic culture at length, for one album she travelled from india back towards europe following the celtic trail from there, passing along the way through turkey amongst other places, recording the music, it's not just in books you can learn things, it was from that music that i first looked into it, just do a simple search on the net, of course one would be stupid to think that they didn't intermarry along the way, nothing is black and white.

anoninnyc

17-07-2007, 08:41 PM

ok my bad, anoninyc, justy check the romany link, a very good map. i apologise for my rudeness.

no problem and i am sorry for being sensitive and easily offended today. anyway, i checked out the link, already knew that the roma came from india. i am however not convinced of either of the conflicting theories of yours or december. i would have to do a lot more research before i come to any conclusion, and it is a lot to read. and it isn't something that is at the top of my to do list. when it comes down to it, we are human beings and there is no such thing as being racially pure anyway. i don't think it is so easy as white people came from here....... i think that people migrate but also migrate back and forth with changing circumstances.

synergy777

17-07-2007, 08:43 PM

luma any links, its sounds cool. indians have bagpipe at weddings, we play the bagpipes aswell.it is in the same instrument family as the pipe they use for snake charming. also check the romany link, look at the migration pattern. we also like the celts, especially their brew,whiskey. also they have the best coffee, lol i mean anyone who puts whiskey in their coffee, can't be bad, for sure, irish coffee rocks.

synergy777

17-07-2007, 08:46 PM

http://www.vurdon.it/english.htm

http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/6062/itinerariohx0.jpg

anoninnyc

17-07-2007, 09:24 PM

but this shows that indo-europeans came from the north of india and we all originally did come from africa according to the popular science of today. so is that all you are saying?

synergy777

17-07-2007, 09:30 PM

africans migrated to india, then the indians migrated.

anoninnyc

17-07-2007, 10:48 PM

but do you think that the africans also migrated separately to europe, independent of their migration to india?

there is really not that much solid information about the pre-indo-european europe. i am curious to know if there were in fact a migration of africans to europe early on.

december

17-07-2007, 11:04 PM

africans migrated to india, then the indians migrated.

Right. And then "Indians" migrated to Russia... :D
They just were searching for COLDER and MUCH COLDER places!

:D :D :D

i am in vodka bar, with nice russian blonde giving a me a blow job, whilst dictating to another blonde who has my laptop, lol

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5460&page=4

http://img.viacomlocalnetworks.com/images_sizedimage_197234316/lg

Man rapes woman - caught on cell phone video

http://wcco.com/topstories/local_story_197225633.html

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5a/IE_expansion.png

Map of Indo European migrations from ca. 4000 to 1000 BC according to the Kurgan model. The Anatolian migration (indicated with a dotted arrow) could have taken place either across the Caucasus or across the Balkans. The purple area corresponds to the assumed Urheimat (Samara culture, Sredny Stog culture). The red area corresponds to the area which may have been settled by Indo-European-speaking peoples up to ca. 2500 BC, and the orange area by 1000 BC.

Kurgan hypothesis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

anoninnyc

17-07-2007, 11:18 PM

shall i list all of the white criminals? oh wait, i would not have room to do so here.

you are falling into the illuminati trap of divide and conquer.

december

17-07-2007, 11:39 PM

Sikh Warrior (Aryan)

http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x36/patrick-tovma/India/sikh9.jpg

And...

http://img.rian.ru/images/5971/90/59719007.jpg

An Indian artist dressed as Hindu God Lord Hanuman takes part in a cultural programme on the occasion of the country's Republic Day in Hyderabad 26 January 2007.

anoninnyc

17-07-2007, 11:50 PM

fullfathomfive

17-07-2007, 11:55 PM

OK.

I agree - the Irish people do have dark hair, but what does it prove?
According to YOUR theory people have to get LIGHTER when they move North. So, I see that your logic doesn't work here... :)

What is the source of that picture, by the way?

Synergy777, I found two pictures of typical Irish girls.
Can you find the same faces in India?

http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z61/Andresh-photos/15.jpg

http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z61/Andresh-photos/16.jpg

The religion of Druidism was unlike any other belief either Celtic or Roman.

The Druids were considered to be enigmatic, mystical, magical - and resented. Originally they were a tribe in Gaul, and gradually developed over the years to become wanderers in Celtic society.

http://www.romans-in-britain.org.uk/clb_religion_druidism.htm

The first woman is from Iceland.

Also, if you actually visit Ireland, you'll see lots of variation in hair colour. To generalise that the Irish have dark hair is nonsense and would raise a laugh in any Irish pub.

And what's with the Kurgan model you keep spamming? This is a dated theory from the 1950's that holds less and less weight with advances in archaeology. Note I said theory.

Keep posting your gems though. I like a good laugh.

december

18-07-2007, 12:07 AM

the man has face paint on and is in costume to look like hanuman, a monkey god. or is that too difficult for you to comprehend?

My post was about Anthropology and NOT about Theism or costumes...
"or is that too difficult for you to comprehend", anoninnyc?

december

18-07-2007, 12:15 AM

Also, if you actually visit Ireland, you'll see lots of variation in hair colour. To generalise that the Irish have dark hair is nonsense and would raise a laugh in any Irish pub.

Hello, fullfathomfive.
I think you got confused or didn't read all thread...:)

If you go back to the THIRD page you will find this:

OK. But the color of the hair is NOT important. But what IS important is facial bone structure.

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5460&page=3

cheeb

18-07-2007, 12:23 AM

Hi december,
I was reading your posts with interest
Last year I went up to the University of Wales, in Aberystwith,
I came across a gem of a book about Stalin,
The first few pictures had all the members of the polit bureau in them,
The next stage had their faces blacked out,
The final pictures they were completely removed ,
to look like they were never there in the first place

I have seen the same with Winston Churchill,
Where the photo croppers removed his cigar,
To make it look like a victory salute

On a trivial note
Nancy de lollio(svens missus ) on a rearing horse was doctored.

Have you got the pictures,

Thanks

POE
Pttp

fullfathomfive

18-07-2007, 12:23 AM

Hello, fullfathomfive.
I think you got confused or didn't read all thread...:)

If you go back to the THIRD page you will find this:

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5460&page=3

Hmm. Maybe you are confused. You post a picture of an Icelandic woman, claiming she is Irish. Then you cling to an outdated theory that bolsters your fragile ego. All the while hearing, seeing and speaking of evidence that fits in with your slavic dream. Did monkeys orignate from Russia also?

december

18-07-2007, 01:05 AM

Hmm. Maybe you are confused. You post a picture of an Icelandic woman, claiming she is Irish.

The point was about the color of hair, so why are you keep switching to Iceland?
Is she from Iceland? OK. Fine.

The goal of this thread is not to find out how Icelandic or Irish women look like...

Do you have anything to say about the subject of this thread, fullfathomfive?

By the way, here's the source of this picture if you wish to complain -

:)

Thirty European Faces (pdf)
http://dienekes.angeltowns.net/pictures/europeanfaces.pdf

fullfathomfive

18-07-2007, 01:26 AM

The point was about the color of hair, so why are you keep switching to Iceland?
Is she from Iceland? OK. Fine.

The goal of this thread is not to find out how Icelandic or Irish women look like...

Do you have anything to say about the subject of this thread, fullfathomfive?

By the way, here's the source of this picture if you wish to complain -

:)

Thirty European Faces (pdf)
http://dienekes.angeltowns.net/pictures/europeanfaces.pdf

What do pictures of 30 individual women have to do with the goal of this thread? Does one face represent a country? Why do you keep changing the subject?

The goal of this thread is obviously to vindicate your limited knowledge. Look at it from my point of view. It's hard to refute stupid assertions without pointing out they are stupid in the first place.

anoninnyc

18-07-2007, 01:42 AM

What do pictures of 30 individual women have to do with the goal of this thread? Does one face represent a country? Why do you keep changing the subject?

The goal of this thread is obviously to vindicate your limited knowledge. Look at it from my point of view. It's hard to refute stupid assertions without pointing out they are stupid in the first place.

and why did he post a picture and link of a black rapist? he is obviously an angry racist. the illuminati wants to divide and conquer. december is an example of this. i am interested in ethnicities and race and where we came from, but december seems to have a definite agenda and it is not one of having an open mind and learning. he is free to think what he wants but he should at least have the balls to come out and say it.

december

18-07-2007, 02:32 AM

What do pictures of 30 individual women have to do with the goal of this thread?

You need to read your own posts to find the answer.

synergy777

19-07-2007, 11:58 AM

fela, i need links to your data bro, keep it coming. please excuse the ignorance of fellow posters they still cannot accept asiatic origin. as for aryan, lets get this thing clear, the land of aryans is india, always has been, always will be. we are the original aryans, we have aryan texts, religions, buildings, etc. thats why max muller and his ilk, went to, read about india, not germany, not central asia, but india. the aryan tribes of europe, migrated from the base between black/caspian sea, after going there from india. why do we have aryan history, texts and europe doesn't, wheres your evidence for being the aryans, oops there is none other than max old boy.stop stealing our culture, imitation is the highest from of flattery.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/scienceNews/idUKL1885586220070718

Skulls confirm we're all out of Africa
Wed Jul 18, 2007 6:08PM BST

Email This Article |Print This Article | RSS
[-] Text [+] By Ben Hirschler

LONDON (Reuters) - An analysis of thousands of skulls shows modern humans originated from a single point in Africa and finally lays to rest the idea of multiple origins, British scientists said on Wednesday.

Most researchers agree that mankind spread out of Africa starting about 50,000 years ago, quickly establishing Stone Age cultures throughout Europe, Asia and Australia.

But a minority have argued, using skull data, that divergent populations evolved independently in different areas.

The genetic evidence has always strongly supported the single origin theory, and now results from a study of more than 6,000 skulls held around the world in academic collections supports this case.

"We have combined our genetic data with new measurements of a large sample of skulls to show definitively that modern humans originated from a single area in Sub-Saharan Africa," said Andrea Manica of the University of Cambridge's Department of Zoology.

Manica and colleagues wrote in the journal Nature that variations in skull size and shape decreased the further a skull was away from Africa, just like variations in DNA.

The decrease reflects the fact that, while the original African population was stable and varied, only a small number of people embarked on each stage of the multi-step migration out of Africa. This effectively created a series of "bottlenecks", which reduced diversity.

The highest level of variation in skull types was seen in southeastern Africa, the generally accepted cradle of mankind

The Cambridge work also suggests in-breeding with other early humans, such as Neanderthals, either did not happen or was insignificant. That is in contrast to recent suggestions that such hybrids may have been fairly common.

"We're not saying there was never a single mating between a homo sapiens and a Neanderthal. But I can say, very confidently, that whatever the product of that mating was, it didn't breed back into the population," Manica told Reuters.

Chris Stringer, a palaeoanthropologist at the Natural History Museum in London, said the new research was important for indicating that modern human diversity was derived entirely from Africa rather than coming from inter-mixing elsewhere

also heres another nail in your mars, aryan theory, white supremacy lol see the illuminati created aryan hitler genocide, you hate hitler, but follow his theory, so in reality, you love his work, but hate the man. see its one race, one love, and love conquers all, so get use to it, brother.

anoninnyc

19-07-2007, 03:48 PM

The Origins of Aryan People
By: M. Sadeq Nazmi-Afshar

I am Dariush, the great king, the king of kings
The king of many countries and many people
The king of this expansive land,
The son of Wishtaspa of Achaemenid,
Persian, the son of a Persian,
'Aryan', from the Aryan race
"From the Darius the Great's Inscription in Naqshe-e-Rostam"

he above scripture is one of most valid written evidences of the history of the Aryan race, and as can be seen, Darius I (Dariush in persian), the Achaemenian king, in the 5th century BCE, declares himself a Persian and form the Aryan race. Herodotus, the father of history, writes (in his book: "History of Herodotus") at the same times: "In ancient times, the Greeks called Iranians "Kaffe", but they were renowned as Aryans among themselves and their neighbors". In another part of his book, Herodotus writes that the Medians were known as Aryans during a certain period. So in two of the oldest written human documents, the race of the Iranians have been mentioned as Aryan.

On the other hand, in many contemporary books, one reads that the Aryans were not original residents of the land of Iran, and that they migrated to Iran from Central Asia or somewhere in the north of Europe. The point is that if some of the oldest written records of the human history confirm that the residents of the Iranian Plateau were Aryans, why should some claim otherwise?

We will discuss the origins of the Iranian race, and we will try to shed light on some unknown corners of history, which has been mixed with ignorance and lies.

We want to extract the facts out of centuries and millennia and out of paleontological studies, old and new, to prove that Iran is the original land of the Aryan race, that this people has never migrated to any other land, and it has defended its homelands for centuries on end.

There are all numerous reasons that the Aryan race has undergone its evolution from the primitive man to the white man in the Iranian Plateau. These reasons can be categorized as historical, geographical, mythological, anthropological and linguistically.

Against the reasons we will discuss, no valid evidence has been produced to prove that the Aryans migrated from Central Asia or any other place to Iran. What European historians have written in this regard is based on unscientific and unproven hypotheses influenced by anti-Iranian and political ideas.

The reason for the migration of Aryans from Iran to other places of the world should be searched in climatic events. At the end of Ice Age, as a result of excessive rainfall on the Alborz and Zagros Mountains and the melting of the ice accumulated on the mountains, the rivers flowing through the Iranian Plateau were much larger than they are today. Therefore there was a large lake in the place where to day is the Central Desert. One of the most interesting mythological texts says in this regard:

"...In the second phase of the creation of the world, Ahura Mazda created the waters, and the waters flowed towards Farakhekrat Sea which covers one third of the world from the southern outskirts of Alborz." With the continuous warming of the earth and the decrease in rainfall, this lake gradually dried up and the peoples living around it, who had a common language and Aryan culture, was forced to migrate from Iran. The routes of this great migration are an evidence for the central position of Iran, for the Aryan peoples have set Iran as the center and set out on migration in any direction.

As a matter of fact, many Western historians have declined to accept the politicized version of history, admitting that Iran was the origin of the Aryan race.

Hegel writes in his book The Philosophy of history: "The principle of evolution begins with the history of Iran". Another prominent orientologist says that: A large part of our cultural and material legacy was unveiled in southwestern Asia the center of which was Iran." Petri, in a famous speech, said that "When Egypt had only just begun the art of pottery, the people of Susa (in Iran) were painting beautiful pictures on ceramics." this shows that the Iranian civilization was 3,000 years ahead of that of Egypt, dating back at least to 12,000 years ago. In other words, when Central Asia was totally buried under thick layers of ice, Iranians were creating pictures on earthenware, which indicates their art and creativity.

Considering the existence of this 12,000 years-old civilization in Iran, would it not be unlikely that 6,000 years ago, a group of people spontaneously crossed the ice covered Siberian lands, suddenly wiping such a civilization off the earth. The word Aryan has roots in world that Iranians called themselves by Ayria, meaning free, noble and steady. The world Iran is derived from this very root, having been transformed from to Ayran Iran, meaning the land of the Aryans. This is the most ancient term applied to the Iranian Plateau, and such a term has never been detected anywhere else in the world, e.g. Europe or Turkistan.

The myth of Aryan's migration to Iran implies that a people have come to Iran from a remote land, giving their name to an already inhabited land which had no name, and that no trace of their name has been remained in their name has been remained in their original homeland. In historical records, Central Asia has been mentioned as the land of Sakas, Masagets, Touran, Soghd, Kharazm, Khiveh, and Turkistan, none of which words has any relation to the word Aryan.

Paleontology is one of the sciences that confirm the formation of the white race in Ian. The Homo sapiens evolved from its Neanderthal ancestors in a 30,000- year process between 50,000 to 20,000 years ago. In the Hutu and Kamarband caves near Behshahr, Iran, bones of men from different historical periods have been found, showing that a kind of human race has continuously dwelled in this area and evolved, meaning that there has been no migration.

In Babylonian and Assyrian sources, one of the largest ancient Iranian tribes has been mentioned as Kas Su, Kassi and Kashi, which in ancient languages and also in the modern language of the people of Gilan means fair-eyed and fair-faced. The name of central city of Kashan (Kassan) is a relic of this ancient Aryan tribe. Many relics of the Kassi tribe has also been found in the Khorramabad region, including paintings in the cave of Dusheh which date back to 15,000 BC. In these paintings, people can be seen riding horses. This is a very valid evidence against the erroneous theories which say that the Aryans brought the horse form Central Asia to Iran around 4,000 BC. Like its ancient riders, the horse is indigenous to Iran since at least 17,000 years ago.

Geology and meteorology confirm the evolution of man in the Iranian Plateau. The supporters of the theory of the migration of the Aryans from the north to Iran assume that with the fall in the temperature during the ice age, men were forced to migrate from the north (Central Asia) to the south (Iran). But the homo race was formed at the end of the third ice age, i.e. when the weather was gradually warming from the south to the north. Therefore, it would have been natural for people to migrate from south to north, and not the other way round. In fact, Central Asia was not habitable for men for thousands of years after the ice age, it only became so in the historic age as a result of the melting and receding of the arctic ice cap. Later groups of Iranians and Chinese migrated to these areas and formed the Turk race through cross breeding. The Indians are a hybrid of early Dravidians and the white Iranian race, a fact, which is evident from their dark skin.

So why have some European historians said that the origin of the Iranians is Central Asia? Because in 1833, an Oxford University professor used the term Aryan to describe a group of languages with common origins. Although he later admitted that parts of his theory were erroneous, the theory of an Aryan race was used by a group of romanticist writers and western historians in quest for an ancient identity.

The Germans, eyeing vast expanses of land in Central Asia, called themselves Aryans and cried for a return to the homeland. They used the Swastika, which, as a "wheel of Mithra (Sun/Fire)" used to be the arm of the Iranians since ancient times, as a Nazi symbol, to have an alibi to invade Russia.

The French, British, Russians and recently Americans found different reasons to call themselves Aryans.

http://www.iranchamber.com/people/articles/aryan_people_origins.php

december

22-08-2007, 06:57 PM

http://www.iranchamber.com/people/articles/aryan_people_origins.php

Yes. Iranians are Aryans too. So, what's new about that?

december

25-08-2007, 10:57 PM

December, please could you post additional resources, to browse, relevant to the Kurgan hypothesis?

http://www.inrne.bas.bg/Varna2005/sights/varna-3.jpg

Ukraine, Russia and Central Asia
Main article: Kurgan
The word kurgan is of Turkic origin borrowed from Russian language. In Ukraine and Russia, there are royal kurgans of Varangian chieftains, such as the Black Grave in Ukrainian Chernihiv (excavated in the 19th century), Oleg's Grave in Russian Staraya Ladoga, and vast, intricate Rurik's Hill near Russian Rurikovo gorodische. Other important kurgans are found in Ukraine and South Russia and are associated with much more ancient steppe peoples, notably the Scythians (e.g.,Chortomlyk, Pazyryk) and Proto-Indo-Europeans (e.g., Ipatovo) The steppe cultures found in Ukraine and South Russia naturally continue into Central Asia, in particular Kazakhstan.

Tumulus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://www.metmuseum.org/special/Golden%20Deer/images/156.L.jpg

In Russia the collecting of gold objects belonging to the "barbarian" cultures of the Eurasian plains began in the years 1715-18. It was at that time that on the orders of Peter the Great Prince Matvei Gagarin sent to St Petersburg two hundred ancient gold artefacts that became known as the Siberian Collection of Peter I. The majority of these pieces that included magnificent belt plates and clasps bearing scenes of animals fighting, torques and bracelets, often adorned with turquoises, were bought from robbers of ancient graves. In the middle of the 19th century, the Siberian Collection was given to the Hermitage which is also where the Imperial Archaeological Commission, created in 1859 to seek out and study antiquities, sent the Scythian and Sarmatian artefacts from the steppes north of the Black Sea.

http://www.hermitagemuseum.org/html_En/12/2004/hm12_1_19_00.html