The Son of Man

[brian]

I read a passage from the bible the other day, and nowhere did Jesus call himself the SON OF GOD, or MASTER, though a lot of people called him that.

I just.. found it interesting. And his parables were interesting too... Any comments?

[rewind_bo]

I agree.

He also says he and god are one - which some people think means he is actually God. When a man and woman get married they supposedly become one this doesnt mean they are now the same person - just they do things together, have the same common goal etc.

[size_of_light]

Son of man = creation of man?

I don't mean that in a critical sense, as in an 'invention', but in terms of him only being born as a result of man existing in the first place and therefore needing him to spring into existence to help them.

No idea really, but I'm sure there are countless biblical scholars who can set the record straight...or crooked :p

[phildee3]

I read a passage from the bible the other day, and nowhere did Jesus call himself the SON OF GOD, or MASTER, though a lot of people called him that.

I just.. found it interesting. And his parables were interesting too... Any comments?



Jesus was a human being (son of man) into whom the logos ("son of God") entered at his baptism.

The dogma of the incarnation (that his physical body was divine at birth) is Roman nonsense.

[zero1]

The Son of Man, in a mystical sense, is Apollyon the Destroyer - he is the receptacle for and totality of all Mankind's collective psychic and spiritual power. He's also no slouch in the physical department either. He is the Destroyer because he shows up here in this realm only in times of great upheaval and disturbance to burn away that which does not work. Such a time we live in, right now. He is here.

[Ian2day]

The Son of Man, in a mystical sense, is Apollyon the Destroyer - he is the receptacle for and totality of all Mankind's collective psychic and spiritual power. He's also no slouch in the physical department either. He is the Destroyer because he shows up here in this realm only in times of great upheaval and disturbance to burn away that which does not work. Such a time we live in, right now. He is here.

Who is he?

[phildee3]

Who is he?



http://philologos.org/bpr/files/a009.htm

[sophia_h]

`

Who is he?




http://www.sanatansociety.org/hindu_gods_and_goddesses/kali.htm


http://www.sanatansociety.org/hindu_gods_and_goddesses/durga.htm



The ONE restores BALANCE so humanity can move on.



.

[amethyst]

The Son of Man, in a mystical sense, is Apollyon the Destroyer - he is the receptacle for and totality of all Mankind's collective psychic and spiritual power. He's also no slouch in the physical department either. He is the Destroyer because he shows up here in this realm only in times of great upheaval and disturbance to burn away that which does not work. Such a time we live in, right now. He is here.

No, Apollyon is the angel that is over the bottomless pit in Revelation. More than likely, Satan.


Rev 9:11: And they had as king over them the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in Hebrew is Abaddon, but in Greek he has the name Apollyon.

Perhaps, that same devil who's face showed up on the World Trade Towers on 9-11

[phildee3]

`

http://www.sanatansociety.org/hindu_gods_and_goddesses/kali.htm

http://www.sanatansociety.org/hindu_gods_and_goddesses/durga.htm

The ONE restores BALANCE so humanity can move on.



Durga/Kali is the consort of Shiva.

[zero1]

No, Apollyon is the angel that is over the bottomless pit in Revelation. More than likely, Satan.


Rev 9:11: And they had as king over them the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in Hebrew is Abaddon, but in Greek he has the name Apollyon.

Perhaps, that same devil who's face showed up on the World Trade Towers on 9-11

No, you're wrong.

You don't have a complete understanding of the dichotomies involved in the personages discussed, especially in Revelations. The Son of Man IS Apollyon the Destroyer. Read Genesis 5:24, and the Book of Enoch. Then read Rev.

[zero1]

Who is he?

The ONE restores BALANCE so humanity can move on.

What she said.

[amethyst]

No, you're wrong.

You don't have a complete understanding of the dichotomies involved in the personages discussed, especially in Revelations. The Son of Man IS Apollyon the Destroyer. Read Genesis 5:24, and the Book of Enoch. Then read Rev.

I did read Genesis 5:24: "And Enoch walked with God; and he was not, for God took him.'

And I have read the book of Enoch. But what does that have to do with Apollyon?

The phrase "son of man" is mentioned several times in scripture. But the phrase 'Son of Man", with a capital "S" and a capital "M" is mentioned by Christ describing Himself.

For example, scripture says this: "And Jesus said to him, "Foxes have holes and birds of the air have nests, but the Son of Man has nowhere to lay His head." Jesus was describing Himself here.. (Matthew 8:20)

Obviously, he is not Apollyon.

[lightgiver]

I did read Genesis 5:24: "And Enoch walked with God; and he was not, for God took him.'

And I have read the book of Enoch. But what does that have to do with Apollyon?

The phrase "son of man" is mentioned several times in scripture. But the phrase 'Son of Man", with a capital "S" and a capital "M" is mentioned by Christ describing Himself.

For example, scripture says this: "And Jesus said to him, "Foxes have holes and birds of the air have nests, but the Son of Man has nowhere to lay His head." Jesus was describing Himself here.. (Matthew 8:20)

Obviously, he is not Apollyon.

Hi amethyst,:)

Have you watched monkey blood ?:)

Ring of Power 2: Monkey Blood:

http://video.google.fr/videoplay?docid=-8264378918236724370&ei=EMKdSZ78C5aWiQLapoDVBQ&q=Monkey+blood&hl=en

[amethyst]

Hi amethyst,:)

Have you watched monkey blood ?:)

Ring of Power 2: Monkey Blood:

http://video.google.fr/videoplay?docid=-8264378918236724370&ei=EMKdSZ78C5aWiQLapoDVBQ&q=Monkey+blood&hl=en

Hi, no. I'll look at your link.

[1977]

The Son of Man = the Primal Man, Adam Kadmon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_kadmon). "The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit."

No, Apollyon is the angel that is over the bottomless pit in Revelation. More than likely, Satan.


Rev 9:11: And they had as king over them the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in Hebrew is Abaddon, but in Greek he has the name Apollyon.

Perhaps, that same devil who's face showed up on the World Trade Towers on 9-11
Apollyon is Apollo, who is Horus the Elder, the Sun God, and the Demiurge of this sphere of generation. The Abyss would perhaps be the Womb of Rhea, or the egg of chaos. Why did John place that name here? Not sure.

[lightgiver]

Hi, no. I'll look at your link.

I think you will enjoy it ;):) tis worth a watch.

[amethyst]

Hi amethyst,:)

Have you watched monkey blood ?:)

Ring of Power 2: Monkey Blood:

http://video.google.fr/videoplay?docid=-8264378918236724370&ei=EMKdSZ78C5aWiQLapoDVBQ&q=Monkey+blood&hl=en

I've seen videos like this....what does it have to do with my comments tho? The videos are talking about the "sons of god' , aka; the nephilim, as opposed to the "Son of Man"

"sons of god' are definitely one term for the nephilim/fallen angels/annunaki etc. etc.

The "Son of God" with a capital "S" always refers to Christ.

Matthew 16:16 scripture says:"Simon Peter answered and said, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."

Mar 15:39 "So when the centurion, who stood opposite Him, saw that He cried out like this and breathed His last, he said, "Truly this Man was the Son of God!"

[lightgiver]

I've seen videos like this....what does it have to do with my comments tho? The videos are talking about the "sons of god' , aka; the nephilim, as opposed to the "Son of Man"

"sons of god' are definitely one term for the nephilim/fallen angels/annunaki etc. etc.

The "Son of God" with a capital "S" always refers to Christ.

Matthew 16:16 scripture says:"Simon Peter answered and said, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."

Mar 15:39 "So when the centurion, who stood opposite Him, saw that He cried out like this and breathed His last, he said, "Truly this Man was the Son of God!"

Just wanted to know what you thought of it :)

The son of man ,is it not just a metaphor? many things have been changed and misrepresented over the centuries,we are all sons and daughters of god.

Gene of Isis or gene of Venus.

Have you any links to the vids that are similar to what you have watched?

[amethyst]

Just wanted to know what you thought of it :)

The son of man ,is it not just a metaphor? many things have been changed and misrepresented over the centuries,we are all sons and daughters of god.

Gene of Isis or gene of Venus.

Have you any links to the vids that are similar to what you have watched?

Just wanted to know what you thought of it

So far, so good ;) interesting....

The son of man ,is it not just a metaphor?

Yes it is. Christ is referred to by many names in scripture.

Contrary to what some have been taught by some present day researchers, He was not known as Gene of Isis or Gene of Venus. that would be referring to Lucifer instead.

[lightgiver]

So far, so good ;) interesting....



Yes it is. Christ is referred to by many names in scripture.

Contrary to what some have been taught by some present day researchers, He was not known as Gene of Isis or Gene of Venus. that would be referring to Lucifer instead.

I know Christ is not referred to gene of Isis,i am going with the Genesis idea that this may refer to The Gene of Isis,things have been changed over the centuries amethyst.

Where do you believe Christ is now or resides?:)

I was brought up with Christian education in masonic schools (st georges),so i do know a little and was quite close to Christ and his teachings from quite a young age,actually had a cross blessed from Lourdes when i was 10,and my parents are not even religious and never got me baptised and the local vicar would not baptise me unless i went to church on a regular basis and my parents said no,so i am still, waiting to be baptised i am sure the time will arrive;):)

[amethyst]

I know Christ is not referred to gene of Isis,i am going with the Genesis idea that this may refer to The Gene of Isis,things have been changed over the centuries amethyst.

Where do you believe Christ is now or resides?:)

I was brought up with Christian education in masonic schools (st georges),so i do know a little and was quite close to Christ and his teachings from quite a young age,actually had a cross blessed from Lourdes when i was 10,and my parents are not even religious and never got me baptised and the local vicar would not baptise me unless i went to church on a regular basis and my parents said no,so i am still, waiting to be baptised i am sure the time will arrive;):)

Christ can be anywhere and everywhere He wants to be, as He is omnipresent, which means "everywhere at the same time". He reigns from heaven, but at the same time, can live inside a person by His Holy Spirit, if that person asks Him to deposit His Holy Spirit inside of them.

[lightgiver]

Christ can be anywhere and everywhere He wants to be, as He is omnipresent, which means "everywhere at the same time". He reigns from heaven, but at the same time, can live inside a person by His Holy Spirit, if that person asks Him to deposit His Holy Spirit inside of them.

Was Christ not flesh and blood?:)

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=50222&page=5

[oiram]

For example, scripture says this: "And Jesus said to him, "Foxes have holes and birds of the air have nests, but the Son of Man has nowhere to lay His head." Jesus was describing Himself here.. (Matthew 8:20)

Obviously, he is not Apollyon.Like I said so many times if there was a Man with the Name Jesus then he must have been a man.
But what do I know I am only a man like Jesus was & a son of my father which also was a man & around around it goes for millions of years.

Then if you go back far enough you will find some Aliens came here to drop us of & also left two chickens here with us one female one male.
So our creators are the Aliens & who created them well you better ask them when they give us another visit.
Is there a creator of-cause somebody clearly made you; usually it's a female & a man but they changed it now & a female with some sperms will do.

Wished the people will wake up soon. 2009 years just about time someone is smart enough to work out that Jesus was a man.

The once ruling you right now are the once playing God.

I love these arguments keep going time for most to wake up.

The one I am looking for is the "son of a gun" which screws everything up. :p

[amethyst]

Was Christ not flesh and blood?:)

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=50222&page=5

Yep. Fully God and fully man at the same time. And when He ressurected, He provided the opportunity for others to become just like Him; Eternal, with a completely new spiritual body when they die.

[lightgiver]

Yep. Fully God and fully man at the same time. And when He ressurected, He provided the opportunity for others to become just like Him; Eternal, with a completely new spiritual body when they die.

:)

[amethyst]

:)

:)...I'm looking forward to my new spiritual body ;)

[lightgiver]

:)...I'm looking forward to my new spiritual body ;)

Maybe you are already in it ;):)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AaWzHib-XCw

I do like this song.

If god was one of us? Just hope it sticks,my vids never do?

[phildee3]

Was Christ not flesh and blood?




That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit [John 3:6].

The logos (the word of God) is spirit.

Jesus was human.
The logos entered into him at his baptism (ie. Jesus became Christ-ened).

That Christ-ening was sealed at his anointing (the first confirmation).

[oiram]

That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit [John 3:6].

The logos (the word of God) is spirit.

Jesus was human.
The logos entered into him at his baptism (ie. Jesus became Christ-ened).

That Christ-ening was sealed at his anointing (the first confirmation).
The first & best logical explanation I seen so far in my entire life.

So am I correct in saying once flesh & spirit joins & the once which manage to achieve this in there life's become Christ like?

So Jesus proved to all that the spirit has more value then you're own flesh & blood; his innocent Crucifixion was proof of this.
They destroyed his body but the spirit continues to live on in the once which adopted the spirit Jesus adopted.

Small proof good man end up in jail & give there flesh to make the spirit live on.

Now I can live with this & by protecting the spirit you automatically respect Jesus bodily sacrifice.

So believing in Jesus is absolutely nothing if you can not adopt & practice the spirit.

Now you know why evil man & woman can easily say they believe in Jesus but they can not say they have the spirit Jesus had because there body's would go up in flames.

So without a spirit you just a useless empty body.

Good one & end of story for me.

Thank you "phildee3"
You confirmed my theory I always had; now the spirit Jesus had is alive; at least in me that much I know!

[lightgiver]

That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit [John 3:6].

The logos (the word of God) is spirit.

Jesus was human.
The logos entered into him at his baptism (ie. Jesus became Christ-ened).

That Christ-ening was sealed at his anointing (the first confirmation).

Where does spirit reside why you are on earth :cool:

Words are vibrations.

[oiram]

Where does spirit reside why you are on earth :cool:
Words are vibrations.It resides in you're personal spiritual actions.

You are correct words are only vibrations without any spiritual actions. http://waronyou.com/forums/Smileys/default/blah.gif

You can not talk Love but you can give Love!

The spirit is the source the body is the vehicle.

[lightgiver]

It resides in you're personal spiritual actions.

You are correct words are only vibrations without any spiritual actions. http://waronyou.com/forums/Smileys/default/blah.gif

You can not talk Love but you can give Love!

The spirit is the source the body is the vehicle.

what's with the hateful blah blah comment :confused:

Can you give love?,apparently not with a blah blah comment like that,not needed mate.:(

I wonder if Jesus would have replied in such a way?i think not,maybe judas.

I wonder sometimes about folk on here?

[metacomet]

Jesus was a human being (son of man) into whom the logos ("son of God") entered at his baptism.

The dogma of the incarnation (that his physical body was divine at birth) is Roman nonsense.

My thoughts as well.

The most arrogant thing Jesus ever said was "I am the way and light"

:) And even then he was just being honest.

His disciples called him 'master' and stuff and it drove him crazy :p

[oiram]

what's with the hateful blah blah comment :confused:

Can you give love?,apparently not with a blah blah comment like that,not needed mate.:(

I wonder if Jesus would have replied in such a way?i think not,maybe judas.

I wonder sometimes about folk on here?All I pointed to with the Smiley was that talking in general equals to blah blah & in this case was absolutely not related to what you have written.
"You see you jumped the gun."

Regarding your reaction I tell you one more thing about the magic of spirit:
If Spirit really controls your body ..... spoken words, written text & images can not ever offend you. Because if the spirit is in you then the spirit controls your body & reactions because it becomes your source.

Example how many people call us Conspiracy Nuts? Does this offend you?
Not me because I know I am not a Nut case no matter what anyone says.
Spirit also gives a person a lot of self confidence.


I am still confused how could you have translated my comment into you're reaction? I even agreed with you.
My Quote:
You are correct words are only vibrations without any spiritual actions.

[muzzled]

I read a passage from the bible the other day, and nowhere did Jesus call himself the SON OF GOD, or MASTER, though a lot of people called him that.

I just.. found it interesting. And his parables were interesting too... Any comments?

100 biblical names for jesus

Advocate (1 John 2:1)
Almighty (Rev. 1:8; Mt. 28:18)
Alpha and Omega (Rev. 1:8; 22:13)
Amen (Rev. 3:14)
Apostle of our Profession (Heb. 3:1)
Atoning Sacrifice for our Sins (1 John 2:2)
Author of Life (Acts 3:15)
Author and Perfecter of our Faith (Heb. 12:2)
Author of Salvation (Heb. 2:10)
Beginning and End (Rev. 22:13)
Blessed and only Ruler (1 Tim. 6:15)
Bread of God (John 6:33)
Bread of Life (John 6:35; 6:48)
Bridegroom (Mt. 9:15)
Capstone (Acts 4:11; 1 Pet. 2:7)
Chief Cornerstone (Eph. 2:20)
Chief Shepherd (1 Pet. 5:4)
Christ (1 John 2:22)
Creator (John 1:3)
Deliverer (Rom. 11:26)
Eternal Life (1 John 1:2; 5:20)
Faithful and True (Rev. 19:11)
Faithful Witness (Rev. 1:5)
Faithful and True Witness (Rev. 3:14)
First and Last (Rev. 1:17; 2:8; 22:13)
Firstborn From the Dead (Rev. 1:5)
Firstborn over all creation (Col. 1:15)
Gate (John 10:9)
God (John 1:1; 20:28; Heb. 1:8; Rom. 9:5; 2 Pet. 1:1;1 John 5:20; etc.)
Good Shepherd (John 10:11,14)
Great Shepherd (Heb. 13:20)
Great High Priest (Heb. 4:14)
Head of the Church (Eph. 1:22; 4:15; 5:23)
Heir of all things (Heb. 1:2)
High Priest (Heb. 2:17)
Holy and True (Rev. 3:7)
Holy One (Acts 3:14)
Hope (1 Tim. 1:1)
Hope of Glory (Col. 1:27)
Horn of Salvation (Luke 1:69)
I Am (John 8:58)
Image of God (2 Cor. 4:4)
Immanuel (Mt. 1:23)
Judge of the living and the dead (Acts 10:42)
King Eternal (1 Tim. 1:17)
King of Israel (John 1:49)
King of the Jews (Mt. 27:11)
King of kings (1 Tim 6:15; Rev. 19:16)
King of the Ages (Rev. 15:3)
Lamb (Rev. 13:8)
Lamb of God (John 1:29)
Lamb Without Blemish (1 Pet. 1:19)
Last Adam (1 Cor. 15:45)
Life (John 14:6; Col. 3:4)
Light of the World (John 8:12)
Lion of the Tribe of Judah (Rev. 5:5)
Living One (Rev. 1:18)
Living Stone (1 Pet. 2:4)
Lord (2 Pet. 2:20)
Lord of All (Acts 10:36)
Lord of Glory (1 Cor. 2:8)
Lord of lords (Rev. 19:16)
Man from Heaven (1 Cor. 15:48)
Master (Lk. 5:5; 8:24; 9:33)
Mediator of the New Covenant (Heb. 9:15)
Mighty God (Isa. 9:6)
Morning Star (Rev. 22:16)
Offspring of David (Rev. 22:16)
Only Begotten Son of God (John 1:18; 1 John 4:9)
Our Great God and Savior (Titus 2:13)
Our Holiness (1 Cor. 1:30)
Our Husband (2 Cor. 11:2)
Our Protection (2 Thess. 3:3)
Our Redemption (1 Cor. 1:30)
Our Righteousness (1 Cor. 1:30)
Our Sacrificed Passover Lamb (1 Cor. 5:7)
Power of God (1 Cor. 1:24)
Precious Cornerstone (1 Pet. 2:6)
Prophet (Acts 3:22)
Rabbi (Mt. 26:25)
Resurrection and Life (John 11:25)
Righteous Branch (Jer. 23:5)
Righteous One (Acts 7:52; 1 John 2:1)
Rock (1 Cor. 10:4)
Root of David (Rev. 5:5; 22:16)
Ruler of God’s Creation (Rev. 3:14)
Ruler of the Kings of the Earth (Rev. 1:5)
Savior (Eph. 5:23; Titus 1:4; 3:6; 2 Pet. 2:20)
Son of David (Lk. 18:39)
Son of God (John 1:49; Heb. 4:14)
Son of Man (Mt. 8:20)
Son of the Most High God (Lk. 1:32)
Source of Eternal Salvation for all who obey him (Heb. 5:9)
The One Mediator (1 Tim. 2:5)
The Stone the builders rejected (Acts 4:11)
True Bread (John 6:32)
True Light (John 1:9)
True Vine (John 15:1)
Truth (John 1:14; 14:6)
Way (John 14:6)
Wisdom of God (1 Cor. 1:24)
Word (John 1:1)
Word of God (Rev. 19:13)

[muzzled]

My thoughts as well.

The most arrogant thing Jesus ever said was "I am the way and light"

:) And even then he was just being honest.

His disciples called him 'master' and stuff and it drove him crazy :p

Jesus said, I am the the way the truth and the life.

He never said I am the way and the light.

Very arrogant agreed, unless of course, it is the truth.

[muzzled]

what's with the hateful blah blah comment :confused:

Can you give love?,apparently not with a blah blah comment like that,not needed mate.:(

I wonder if Jesus would have replied in such a way?i think not,maybe judas.

I wonder sometimes about folk on here?

I have been on this site for 10 minutes brother, it is clear these folk are totally lost. That is why they are seeking the truth. AKA Truth seekers, people who are not lost are not trying to find something.

[phildee3]

Where does spirit reside why you are on earth



The spirit of one who currently has a physical body normally resides in that physical body.

[phildee3]

...when He ressurected, He provided the opportunity for others to become just like Him; Eternal, with a completely new spiritual body when they die.



What is your source for this information?

[amethyst]

What is your source for this information?

Are you asking about Jesus's resurrection ,or about the completely new spiritual body that a person can have when they die?

[phildee3]

Are you asking about Jesus's resurrection ,or about the completely new spiritual body that a person can have when they die?



The latter,
and please clarify if you mean that your existing spiritual body is transformed or if you get a different one,
and are you referring only to the death of the physical body?

[amethyst]

The latter,
and please clarify if you mean that your existing spiritual body is transformed or if you get a different one,
and are you referring only to the death of the physical body?

When their present physical bodiy dies, a believer will get a new spiritual body when they die, just as Jesus Christ's body was transformed into His new spiritual body when he died, after He ressurected.

[phildee3]

When their present physical bodiy dies, a believer will get a new spiritual body when they die, just as Jesus Christ's body was transformed into His new spiritual body when he died, after He ressurected.



That's even more unclear than before.

Forget it.

[amethyst]

That's even more unclear than before.

Forget it.

Have you not read the scripture?:

1st Corinthians 6:14 "And God both raised up the Lord and will also raise us up by His power.

"Raise up" means to resurrect. Rise from the dead.

Don't understand your confusion.

1Cr 15:42 "So also is the resurrection of the dead. [The body] is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption."

1Cr 15:43 "It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power.

1Cr 15:44 "It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. "

[lightgiver]

All I pointed to with the Smiley was that talking in general equals to blah blah & in this case was absolutely not related to what you have written.
"You see you jumped the gun."

Regarding your reaction I tell you one more thing about the magic of spirit:
If Spirit really controls your body ..... spoken words, written text & images can not ever offend you. Because if the spirit is in you then the spirit controls your body & reactions because it becomes your source.

Example how many people call us Conspiracy Nuts? Does this offend you?
Not me because I know I am not a Nut case no matter what anyone says.
Spirit also gives a person a lot of self confidence.


I am still confused how could you have translated my comment into you're reaction? I even agreed with you.




Really,then why direct it at me :confused:

I care not if people call me a conspiracy nut :D Blah Blah

I just wondered why you put it in there in the 1st place why not a smiley face:)

I have been insulted enough not to bother these days ;):D

Just do not want it coming back to bite you on the bum.

I apologise if i misunderstood :o

[phildee3]

Don't understand your confusion.



You keep changing the subject.
Now you're talking about our resurrection.

Why are you avoiding my questions?

[lightgiver]

The result of all this is that one rises in an "illusory body", so called because it is a spirit body rather than a physical body:)

[amethyst]

You keep changing the subject.
Now you're talking about our resurrection.

Why are you avoiding the original question?

What's not to understand phildee? You are making it too complicated. Jesus, when he ressurrected, got a new spiritual body.

Haven't you read the end of the gospels, when Jesus visited his disciples after He had died and then ressurected? he visited them (on earth) in His spiritual body.

[amethyst]

The result of all this is that one rises in an "illusory body", so called because it is a spirit body rather than a physical body:)

yeah, you could sorta say that. The "spiritual body' is your real body, not made out of flesh.

[phildee3]

The result of all this is that one rises in an "illusory body", so called because it is a spirit body rather than a physical body:)



Are you (and/or amethyst) saying that we don't have a spiritual body until we leave our physical ones?

[amethyst]

Are you (and/or amethyst) saying that we don't have a spiritual body until we leave our physical ones?

no

[amethyst]

1 CR 15:39 "All flesh is not the same flesh, but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of animals, another of fish, and another of birds."


1Cr 15:40 "There are also celestial bodies and terrestrial bodies; but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another."

The first man was of the earth, made of dust; the second Man is the Lord from heaven.


1Cr 15:48 As was the man of dust, so also are those who are made of dust; and as is the heavenly Man, so also are those who are heavenly.


1Cr 15:49 And as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly Man.


1Cr 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption.


1Cr 15:51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed--


1Cr 15:52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

[phildee3]

Haven't you read the end of the gospels, when Jesus visited his disciples after He had died and then ressurected?



Yes, I have.
Would you please answer my questions as straightforwardly?
Thanks.



Jesus, when he ressurrected, got a new spiritual body.



This is unclear.
I ask again, what happened to his physical body, and what happened to his old spiritual body?

[phildee3]

no



Thank you.
So we have a spiritual body as well as a physical one.
Good.
Now, please answer this:
When we "get a new spiritual body," does this mean that it's the old one transformed, or is it discarded and we get a different one?

[lightgiver]

yeah, you could sorta say that. The "spiritual body' is your real body, not made out of flesh.

Yes :) and we are all spirit,it resides within.

[amethyst]

Yes, I have.
Would you please answer my questions as straightforwardly?
Thanks.



This is unclear.
I ask again, what happened to his physical body, and what happened to his old spiritual body?

His (Jesus) physical body was resurrected, (was taken up) His spiritual body went with Him.

[amethyst]

Thank you.
So we have a spiritual body as well as a physical one.
Good.
Now, please answer this:
When we "get a new spiritual body," does this mean that it's the old one transformed, or is it discarded and we get a different one?

Your fleshly body dies. But your spiritual one remains. Sorry for the confusion. The spiritual body becomes pre-eminent.

[lightgiver]

Are you (and/or amethyst) saying that we don't have a spiritual body until we leave our physical ones?

Sort of,you need to work on it,if you cannot get heaven here on earth,how can you enter the kingdom of heaven:)

I am working on it my self,i do not have all the answers,we have to become like saints ie mother Theresa,self sacrifice.;)but you can do this in everyday life with all you meet.

Every little bit helps.;)

Love ,wisdom and compassion.

[amethyst]

Sort of,you need to work on it,if you cannot get heaven here on earth,how can you enter the kingdom of heaven:)

I am working on it my self,i do not have all the answers,we have to become like saints ie mother Theresa,self sacrifice.;)but you can do this in everyday life with all you meet.

Every little bit helps.;)

Love ,wisdom and compassion.

I agree, but I differ a little bit with you. We can't earn salvation. It is a free gift from God. It is a free gift to be received. Christ accepts you just as you are. The Catholic religion says you have to work to make yourself more holy. Christ didn't say that. He just asks that you accept what he did on our behalf.

Yes, we do work on ourselves to become more spiritual, but the actual power of the transformation process, that will transform our bodies when we die, comes from Christ, because He already went ahead of us. Because He lives eternally, we shall also, by believing in Him.

[phildee3]

Yes :) and we are all spirit,it resides within.



Rigjht.
We are all thre in agreement here.
Can we use this as a basis to go forward?
Both of your subsequent postings are confused.
Can we sort them, please?

[phildee3]

His (Jesus) physical body was resurrected, (was taken up) His spiritual body went with Him.



Here you have confused resurrection with ascension.
This statement is thus quite unclear.

[lightgiver]

I agree, but I differ a little bit with you. We can't earn salvation. It is a free gift from God. It is a free gift to be received. Christ accepts you just as you are. The Catholic religion says you have to work to make yourself more holy. Christ didn't say that. He just asks that you accept what he did on our behalf.

Yes, we do work on ourselves to become more spiritual, but the actual power of the transformation process, that will transform our bodies when we die, comes from Christ, because He already went ahead of us. Because He lives eternally, we shall also, by believing in Him.

Yes i understand,;)

but where is god?:)

[lightgiver]

Rigjht.
We are all thre in agreement here.
Can we use this as a basis to go forward?
Both of your subsequent postings are confused.
Can we sort them, please?

Confusing in what way?:)

[phildee3]

Confusing in what way?:)



"Sort of" in your msg 56, contradicts what you say in your message 59.

But you then go on to agree with your message 59 by saying:

"if you cannot get heaven here on earth,how can you enter the kingdom of heaven"

Which I agree with,
but it is the spirit body which resides in "heaven"
so we must have a spirit body whilst we have a physical body, yes?

What's this "sort of" business?

[phildee3]

...the actual power of the transformation process, that will transform our bodies when we die...



Now are you speaking of our physical body, or our spiritual body?

[lightgiver]

"Sort of" in your msg 56, contradicts what you say in your message 59.

But you then go on to agree with your message 59 by saying:

"if you cannot get heaven here on earth,how can you enter the kingdom of heaven"

Which I agree with,
but it is the spirit body which resides in "heaven"
so we must have a spirit body whilst we have a physical body, yes?

What's this "sort of" business?

The kingdom of heaven resides within,if you seek ye shall find,no one can do it for you,only YOU can do it.;)

so i sort of tell ya :D

The kingdom of heaven and god is all around you and the kingdom of god and Heaven is within YOU,hope that answered your question.;)

You can be given the key to the door but only YOU can unlock it and open it.

"The kingdom of heaven is spread out upon the earth, and men see it not," Jesus is recorded as saying in the Gospel.

On earth as it is in heaven,ever heard that one.?;)

[phildee3]

The kingdom of heaven resides within,if you seek ye shall find,no one can do it for you,only YOU can do it.;)

so i sort of tell ya :D

The kingdom of heaven and god is all around you and the kingdom of god and Heaven is within YOU,hope that answered your question.;)

You can be given the key to the door but only YOU can unlock it and open it.

"The kingdom of heaven is spread out upon the earth, and men see it not," Jesus is recorded as saying in the Gospel.

On earth as it is in heaven,ever heard that one.?;)



Yes, I've "heard that one."
I know very well, and agree with, everything you've said here.
But it does not address the question.

[1977]

When we are born into this world, we are all classified as "dead." Remember the movie "The Sixth Sense"? We are all Bruce Willis.

Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

This is the resurrection of the dead; the "birth from above."

[phildee3]

...the actual power of the transformation process, that will transform our bodies when we die...



In msg. 58 you say:

"Your fleshly body dies. But your spiritual one remains."

So when you say "we get a new body" you are saying that the spirit body is transformed.

Correct?

[lightgiver]

Yes, I've "heard that one."
I know very well, and agree with, everything you've said here.
But it does not address the question.

Would you like me to wipe your bottom also ;):D only joking but seriously you need to look within yourself.:)

You can ask questions all day,but you need direct experience.

When i became a black belt i had to start as a white belt and work my way up and when i became proficient, ie Shodan 1st Dan,that was the start of the ladder,as there are 10 Dans all together and when you get your 10th Dan this is considered as seisen,in martial art terms a master ,heaven, enlightenment,and you have to achieve it with guidance from a previous master,and when this is achieved you will notice the black belt as turned back to white,do you get it yet?;):D

[phildee3]

When we are born into this world, we are all classified as "dead." Remember the movie "The Sixth Sense"? We are all Bruce Willis.



Nope.
How can I when I never saw it?



Jesus...said..."Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

This is the resurrection of the dead; the "birth from above."



Now you're talking.
Plain and clear.
Thanks.

[lightgiver]

Nope.
How can I when I never saw it?



Now you're talking.
Plain and clear.
Thanks.

So if it is plain and clear ,explain please,so we are sure it is plain and clear ;):)

[phildee3]

Would you like me to wipe your bottom also ;):D only joking but seriously you need to look within yourself.:)

You can ask questions all day,but you need direct experience.

When i became a black belt i had to start as a white belt and work my way up and when i became proficient, ie Shodan 1st Dan,that was the start of the ladder,as there are 10 Dans all together and when you get your 10th Dan this is considered as seisen,in martial art terms a master ,heaven, enlightenment,and you have to achieve it with guidance from a previous master,and when this is achieved you will notice the belt as turned back to white,do you get it yet?;):D



What an arrogant asshole you are!

It is you who doesn't "get it."

My questioning is Socratic.

I don't need answers from self-righteous pigs like you.

[phildee3]

So if it is plain and clear ,explain please,so we are sure it is plain and clear ;):)



It cannot be made any clearer.

As I said, it is you who doesn't "get it."

Now you go "look inside yourself,"
I'm off to bed.

[lightgiver]

What an arrogant asshole you are!

It is you who doesn't "get it."

My questioning is Socratic.

I don't need answers from self-righteous pigs like you.

Hey hold on a minute i was joking:(

You ask constant questions in a deluded doubt way i did not call you an as hole i just stated in a joking way, did you want me to wipe your bottom ,and this is the reason you are way off the mark:eek:

It is you who is the self righteous none of those words came out of my mouth,and i have sussed you out.

You are kind of out of order TBH,and you deserve NO help What so ever.

Socratic my bottom,
Yes go back to bed and stay there until you have learnt some Humility.

I looked into myself before you was even born socrates.

You have been babbling on all this thread and leading us on, if you claim to be Socratic,then you should already know.


No you have not explained yourself plain and clear you are just leading people on,and trying to make a mockery out of decent people who are closer to god than you will be for a very long time.

Socrates generally applied his method of examination to concepts that seem to lack any concrete definition; e.g., the key moral concepts at the time, the virtues of piety, wisdom, temperance, courage, and justice.

Something YOU obviously are well lacking

Another Follis being with Ataxia and definitely no Ataraxia.

Another Hour or 2 of my precious human life wasted .

Socrates you make me laugh you are no where near.If you cannot take a bit of light hearted humour then heaven help us.

You have made me rather Mangy with that comment,i do not enjoy having my mind disturbed,and i have just edited out words as not to upset amethyst.

watch and learn,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UsCET8oQyuA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jmeR5tV7hY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyDl_ymabeQ

I wonder if there is such a thing as Sticky vids?

Tbh i have pity for you. Remember Tuesdays and Fridays.

I get it also,i do not enjoy condescending comments,i cannot believe i am even wasting my energy typing this.I must be a glutton for punishment.

and another reminder wise one,just because you quote Socrates does not mean you have his wisdom.

Socrates generally applied his method of examination to concepts that seem to lack any concrete definition; e.g., the key moral concepts at the time, the virtues of piety, wisdom, temperance, courage, and justice.

[dlb2007]

I agree, but I differ a little bit with you. We can't earn salvation. It is a free gift from God. It is a free gift to be received. Christ accepts you just as you are. The Catholic religion says you have to work to make yourself more holy. Christ didn't say that. He just asks that you accept what he did on our behalf.

it is only when we truely accept what he has done our behalf that we begin to understand just what he has done, it is only then that we begin to understand what love actually is, it is only then do we realise the love god has for us, it is only then that we understand our own failures, it is only then that we realise the impossibility of our situation without Christ, it is only then do we become truely thankful (eucharistic) for the sacrafice of Christ, it is only then that we are moved by the spirit to want to work towards perfection or holiness, not because we have to do so, but because we want to do so, out of thanksgiving (eucharistic) out of love.

James 2: 20-24

20 You foolish man, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless?

21 Was not our ancestor Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar?

22 You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did.

23 And the scripture was fulfilled that says, "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness," and he was called God's friend.

24 You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone.

[dlb2007]

There is no mention in the Gospels of Jesus directly saying he is the son of God, however it has to do with humility and coming in his fathers name and not his own. Jesus admits to being the son of God, he alludes to it and in Jewish minds there would have been no doubt that is what he meant. The Name God told moses on mount sinai was "I AM"

Jesus refers to himself as I AM quite a lot.

I AM the way the truth and the life
I AM the Bread of Life
I AM the light of the World
I AM The Ressurection & the life
Etc

Jesus accepts Peters revelation about him as truth

"I say you are the messiah, the son of the living God. Jesus said, Blessed are you simon son of Jonha, for flesh and blood have not revealed this to you but my father in heaven"

"he who sees me sees the father"
"I and the father are one"

Jesus claims to be able to forgive sins, this can only be true if he is Divine.

Jesus Claims divinity throughout the Gospels but it is true he never directly refers to himself as the son of God.

[amethyst]

There is no mention in the Gospels of Jesus directly saying he is the son of God, however it has to do with humility and coming in his fathers name and not his own. Jesus admits to being the son of God, he alludes to it and in Jewish minds there would have been no doubt that is what he meant. The Name God told moses on mount sinai was "I AM"

Jesus refers to himself as I AM quite a lot.

I AM the way the truth and the life
I AM the Bread of Life
I AM the light of the World
I AM The Ressurection & the life
Etc

Jesus accepts Peters revelation about him as truth

"I say you are the messiah, the son of the living God. Jesus said, Blessed are you simon son of Jonha, for flesh and blood have not revealed this to you but my father in heaven"

"he who sees me sees the father"
"I and the father are one"

Jesus claims to be able to forgive sins, this can only be true if he is Divine.

Jesus Claims divinity throughout the Gospels but it is true he never directly refers to himself as the son of God.

Right, Jesus never denied it when someone called Him the Son of God.

"Then they all said, "Are You then the Son of God?" So He said to them, "You rightly say that I am." (Luke 22:70)