Why are you against UK ID cards?

[december]

I just don't quite see your point.... In America they use ID cards for years...
So, why are the Brits against ID cards in UK? :confused:

Thank you for your answers.

[splinterg]

I just don't quite see your point.... In America they use ID cards for years...
So, why are the Brits against ID cards in UK? :confused:

Thank you for your answers.

lol..It never solved football hooliganism at Kenilworth Road all them years back

[baron von lotsov]

Tracking and logging our every move in order to control us. New laws based on this new level of surveillance.

[december]

Tracking and logging our every move in order to control us. New laws based on this new level of surveillance.

Hello, Baron von Lostov.
What makes it possible to track people's movements? Are these ID cards connected to the GPS system some how?

[rastamasta]

Here's some info about ID cards.

The problems with "ID Cards"

Not just a card. The card is the least of it... #

The proposed identity management system has multiple layers #

The NIR (National Identity Register) — individual checking and numbering of the population — marking many personal details as "registrable facts" to be disclosed and constantly updated — collection and checking of biometrics (e.g. fingerprints) — the card itself — a widespread scanner network and secure (one hopes) infrastructure connecting it to the central database — provision for use across the private and public sectors — data-sharing between organisations on an unprecedented scale.

Massive accumulation of personal data #

50 categories of registrable fact are set out in the Bill, though they could be added to. Effectively an index to all other official and quasi-official records, through cross-references and an audit trail of all checks on the Register, the NIR would be the key to a total life history of every individual, to be retained even after death.

Lifelong surveillance and the meta-database #

Every registered individual will be under an obligation to notify any change in registrable facts. It is a clear aim of the system to require identity verification for many more civil transactions, the occasions to be stored in the audit trail. Information verified and indexed by numbers from the NIR would be easily cross-referenced in any database or set of databases. The "meta-database" of all the thousands of databases cross-referenced is much more powerful and much less secure than the NIR itself.

Overseas ID cards are not comparable #

Many western countries that have ID cards do not have a shared register. Mostly ID cards have been limited in use, with strong legal privacy protections. In Germany centralisation is forbidden for historical reasons, and when cards are replaced, the records are not linked. Belgium has made use of modern encryption methods and local storage to protect privacy and prevent data-sharing, an approach opposite to the Home Office's. The UK scheme is closest to those of some Middle Eastern countries and of the People's Republic of China—though the latter has largely given up on biometrics.

The Government has not made a case. There is no evidence the system will produce the stated benefits. Less liberty does not imply greater security. #

Terrorism #

ID does not establish intention. Competent criminals and terrorists will be able to subvert the identity system. Random outrages by individuals can't be stopped. Ministers agree that ID cards will not prevent atrocities. A blank assertion that the department would find it helpful is not an argument that would be entertained for fundamental change in any other sphere of government but national security. Where is the evidence? Research suggests there is no link between the use of identity cards and the prevalence of terrorism, and in no instance has the presence of an identity card system been shown a significant deterrent to terrorist activity. Experts attest that ID unjustifiably presumed secure actually diminishes security.

Illegal immigration and working #

People will still enter Britain using foreign documents—genuine or forged—and ID cards offer no more deterrent to people smugglers than passports and visas. Employers already face substantial penalties for failing to obtain proof of entitlement to work, yet there are only a handful of prosecutions a year.

Benefit fraud and abuse of public services #

Identity is "only a tiny part of the problem in the benefit system." Figures for claims under false identity are estimated at £50 million (2.5%) of an (estimated) £2 billion per year in fraudulent claims.

"Identity fraud" #

Both Australia and the USA have far worse problems of identity theft than Britain, precisely because of general reliance on a single reference source. Costs usually cited for of identity-related crime here include much fraud not susceptible to an ID system. Nominally "secure", trusted, ID is more useful to the fraudster. The Home Office has not explained how it will stop registration by identity thieves in the personae of innocent others. Coherent collection of all sensitive personal data by government, and its easy transmission between departments, will create vast new opportunities for data-theft.

Overcomplicated, unproven technology #

Computer system #

IT providers find that identity systems work best when limited in design. The Home Office scheme combines untested technologies on an unparalleled scale. Its many inchoate purposes create innumerable points for failure. The government record with computer projects is poor, and the ID system is likely to end up a broken mess.

Biometrics #

Not all biometrics will work for all people. Plenty are missing digits, or eyes, or have physical conditions that render one or more biometrics unstable or hard to read. All systems have error. Deployment on a vast scale, with variably trained operators and variably maintained and calibrated equipment, will produce vast numbers of mismatches, leading to potentially gross inconvenience to millions.

http://www.no2id.net/IDSchemes/whyNot.php

[baron von lotsov]

Hello, Baron von Lostov.
What makes it possible to track people's movements? Are these ID cards connected to the GPS system some how?

Congestion charging will be via satellite tracking of your car. ID cards index the individual, that is their function. Schools are being fitted with fingerprint scanners on classroom doors, canteens etc. Transactions will use the system eventually and access to any services, probably even your Internet as well. In time they might as well have a GPS considering the number of times they get swiped and even without you knowing since they will have RFID in them.

[king]

first they forced ID cards on perverts and criminals
I was not a pervert or criminal so i did not speak out

then they forced ID cards on elderly
i was not elderly, so i did not speak out

then they forced ID cards on all citizens
I did not really care about "politics" so i did not speak out

then, one day they dragged me and then they chipped me
because there was no one left to speak out for me

[Anders Lindman]

I just don't quite see your point.... In America they use ID cards for years...
So, why are the Brits against ID cards in UK? :confused:

Thank you for your answers.

Today, criminals, criminal organizations and criminal companies can create false passports and ID cards. New ID cards with fingerprints would be more difficult to create and criminals would have to chop people's fingers off in order to get hold of the fingerprints. I don't want risk having my fingers chopped off by some desperate criminals.

[lightbeing]

Hello, Baron von Lostov.
What makes it possible to track people's movements? Are these ID cards connected to the GPS system some how?

I am sure the cards will have a nano chip in them, so they will be able to track your every movement............:mad:

[wanderer]

One of the most secure ways of building an IT system is to have distributed (multiple) secure data stores and very few, highly guarded points of access to this data.

In contrast, the proposed (ie being built as we speak) ID card system will use a massive central database - with thousands of access points. Your data will be available to health workers, police authorities, government employees, foreign governments and their security services, multinational corporations - the list goes on. Are you happy about that? I'm not! This is going to be an absolute gift to identity thieves and terrorist organisations (CIAMOSSADALQAEDAMI6)

If we were simply talking about owning a physical card, well I have a driver's licence - surely that is sufficient? I have a passport - isn't that enough? Don't confuse the physical ID card with the intrusive and extensive data gathering and social profiling exercise that it fronts.

Soon, I suspect that all your personal data, including the purchases you make, the programs you watch (isn't digital TV great), your telephone conversations and emails, the websites you visit, where and how far you have driven today etc will also be linked in with the ID card system and UK DNA database (shortly to become European wide by the way).


Moving on...

From a philosophical and psychological perspective, humans are intrinsically private. Sure, we are gregarious, social and outgoing creatures when we choose, but privacy isn't something you wear - its something you ARE - it is essential for our learning our independence and our happiness - or would you like all your thoughts, quirks, opinions, eccentricities, sexual preferences, etc. exposed to the public at large? If so - go and join the rest of the egotistical morons auditioning for Big Brother.

Now supposing a future government decides to weed out what it deems to be the weak, the deviants and the troublemakers of society? You know - the activists, gay people, disabled people, non-whites, people of a different religion etc (sound familiar?) Well, our sheer complacency and ignorance is handing them this reality on a plate. Stalin and Hitler would have given their right arms for such fantastic technology - fortunately the Nazis only had IBM's tabulating system at their disposal.

Good job we live in a democracy eh? After all, we were given the option to vote for/against ID cards weren't we? No? How about the DNA database? No? How about fingerprint systems in schools? No? CCTV? Er...No!!

"If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear". Right? How about changing this fallacious, tired old mantra to - "I'm not a criminal - stop treating me as one"

[truthseeker1980]

As with what everyone else has said, I don't want an ID card. Surley a photo driving licence is suffice, it has where you live, when you were born, how long you have held the licence and any endorsements on the licence. Or the passport, which now has an Id chip in anyway.

Why do they need ID cards?

The plan from what i have read in papers and researching, is for it to be compulsory to carry the card every time you leave the house. You would also have to scan the card with every single purchase you make, if you have no card you can't buy anything.

The new SAT NAV road tax plan which Blair said is still going ahead even though they had over 1.5million signatures against it, will together with the ID cards produce all the information the illuminati need to locate whoever they want, as they will know exactly where you are when driving, where and what you last bought for food and what your daily routine and patterns are.

So the so called truth movement, would probably be wiped out within a few months if they really got worried about the awakening, a couple of staged car accidents, or food poisoning of the targetted people would be suffice. It's all too easy for them.

I know you could say that the scanning to buy things is hearsay, but they are already only allowing you into clubs and pubs in Leicester square if you allow them to either take a copy of your passport, finger prints or an iris scan. So they will blatantly be scanning the card on purchases.

[december]

Congestion charging will be via satellite tracking of your car. ID cards index the individual, that is their function. Schools are being fitted with fingerprint scanners on classroom doors, canteens etc. Transactions will use the system eventually and access to any services, probably even your Internet as well. In time they might as well have a GPS considering the number of times they get swiped and even without you knowing since they will have RFID in them.

I see. Thank you.

In US in order to go through the tolls on the highways FASTER without stopping at the both to pay the toll with cash you can buy $40.00 cards from the state authorities. To do that you need to tell them who you are, so every time you use the card, the state knows exactly where you travel...

http://www.ipass.com

http://www.vastormphoto.com/charley/charley3.jpg

[truthseeker1980]

I see. Thank you.

In US in order to go through the tolls on the highways FASTER without stopping at the both to pay the toll with cash you can buy $40.00 cards from the state authorities. To do that you need to tell them who you are, so every time you use the card, the state knows exactly where you travel...

http://www.ipass.com

http://www.vastormphoto.com/charley/charley3.jpg

That's exactly what the Oyster card is/was used for on the London Underground and Bus network, they hiked up the prices to travel only one stop to over £2.00 unless you registered for an Oyster card.

This has now changed tho, for some reason you can get an Oyster card without giving your name or address now, I suppose they have a CCTV image of you obtaining the card anyway.

[infinitetruth]

I am against the ID card because it is a stepping stone to the implanted ID chip.

Any ID cards can be inserted with RFID chips which are radio frequency tracking chips that can contain personal information about you. Not only that but they can be easily copied - in other words it can be made to look like you were somewher you weren't pretty easily. It can also contain sensitive information that can be obtained by anyone. I believe this is an infrigement of my privacy and that is why I do not want any part of it.

I also believe that the implanted chips could be used to produce hormonal reactions in the body to control the persons behaviour and mood and I also believe it could be used to produce halucinations in the subject by emitting certain low radio wave frequencies or otherwise.

In any case I won't have one. full stop.

[december]

I am against the ID card because it is a stepping stone to the implanted ID chip.

And they also want to take away our FREEDOM OF SPEECH.

In some EU countries the Jews cooked up some very strange laws.

EU STATES WITH LAWS AGAINST HOLOCAUST DENIAL:

Austria

Belgium

Czech Republic :confused:

France

Germany

Lithuania :confused:

Poland :confused:

Romania :confused:

Slovakia :confused:


As you can see - UK is not listed.
So, enjoy freedom to express your opinion... :D


Source - Banning the freedom to deny

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/42451000/jpg/_42451637_irving.jpg

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6336513.stm