invasion of the mad Christians

[seanx]

It's obvious the forum has been 'invaded' by the 'Jesus freaks'.

Can I say to people like James 777 - look, it's fine - if you want to
believe in that martrix nonsense - that's fine.

But come on- why do you people always have this obsessive, almost
sick need to covert other people to your Jesus is God alone ideas.

There are plenty of Christian sites you can go onto - and plenty
of other souls you can brainwash- but most people on this frorum are
quite knowledgeable about the true history and origin of the christian
religion - so you are really wasting your time.

The phrase 'banging against a brick wall comes to mind'.

Please go away.

This forum is for people with open minds. We don't need to be saved

[synergy777]

jesus was not god/creator, if he was, then why talk about the father/creator. why not if he was god, defeat the nwo/satan, people are such dim wits. jesus wasn;'t even his real name, anyway, the church knows that. they made a teacher/rebel into a supernatural god man, to fit their antichrist/sol invictus doctrine.yashuah was a real person, like you and me, not a celestial lovechild, its egocentric eurocentric hogwash. a creator who creates galaxies etc, but has to create a virgin lovechild, logic.

[seanx]

It's not a question of whether Jesus is right or wrong - but
the way these 'Jesus savers' try to use subtle manipuation
techniques to try to 'control' us or help us 'see the light' - their light
naturally.

It would be better - and more honest if these people like James 777
had the honesty to declare their positions honesty -and tell us he
is here to save our 'souls'.

[baron von lotsov]

Ah so you feel challenged in that you can not just post some occult crap and get loads of suckers to agree with you. Too bad, but it is called free speech, something you are not too comfortable with. Icke insulted Christians for years on his site and he was very dishonest as well. No complains there though, it's only when something goes against the system agenda do you complain.

[supertzar]

How was David Icke dishonest about Christianity?

[joy division]

If these guys are "true christians" then the fact that they are here maybe shows they are not so sure about there beliefs and feel they need to come here to re-certify there by beliefs, who knows.

As long an nobody tries to make me follow or believe something against my will and i have told them to f off and they stop, why let it bother you.

[synergy777]

christians only think they know the truth, like all other religions, because they are told to believe the word of scripture, clergy, and haven't investigated the validity of the data presented, its called blind faith, misplaced trust. to be honest its no more different to cult followers, like scientologists.

there are those that don't know about these corruptions, and i think these are good people, as its their good side that makes them trust the clergy. so these people, ironically need to be saved, brought into truth. we can harbour no ill feeling, as we did the same. the ones that piss me off are the ones who have knowledge of the corruptions, but still carry on oblivious. people who know about the yashuah, mesasge, appearence. know about the christmas/easter/solar symbolic stuff, but still believe. i mean the trinity, should be big big give away, that the creator split himself into three etc,father, holy spirit and jesus, please.

people who believe their religion is pure, whilst all others are corrupt, are freakingly brainwashed. people who know about the timelag, translations, edits, know the elite controlled the translations, editing. people who know that king james was an adherent of blueblood/divine right of kings doctrine, that he may have had francis bacon/mason to write his book etc. people who know the authors are elite, corrupt, but believe their works, i just don't get it. people who know the vatican masscred, imprisoned aided and abetted evil, but still belive their works. i mean what else can you do, test them by fruits, that means look at their actions not words. so by seeing them as corrupt murdering folk, humans make the intelligent conclusion that their works is pure truth and their actions, well, ignore them. i mean look at history, heck look at the peado priest cover up, nice fucking church aint they. if people support peados, which they do, then fuck them, they deserve what they get. if acting spineless is good, brilliant, when they come to their final hour, victory for us will be swift.

thats why when i see these religous folk of all religions, i see weak, scared, ignorant clones, not people. the vatican supported slavery (based on the curse of ham), the theft of the americas etc, and you get africans, latinoes all kissing babylons arse. people is wrong term, we humans are mammals.

when people allign themselves with evil, knowing full well the actions of those they support, what shall we call them? spiritual mercenaries, salvation seeking judas's.

[synergy777]

christians need to wise up and realise the reason they get so much stick is that they blindly follow, this blind faith is found in all religions. blind faith to corrupted doctrine is of no use whatsoever, and merely plays into the fear based control the organised religions use as their powerbase. if you want to know the difference between sol invictus/mithras/wheat god and a real rebel/teacher/liberator, get to know yashuah and then wake up. it makes sense, anytime a people are opppressed, from them will come a person who has the courage/intelligence to liberate the people. from freedom fighters, to scientists, artists etc. remove the mythical mystery school stuff and try to see him as a regular person.

learn to discern, yashuah said this. jesus was not his name, there is no j in the hebrew alphabet, its yashuah = yah is salvation. the closet greek/english name is joshuah. yashuah ben yosef, as in yashuah son of joseph. yashuah traveled to many places to learn the truth, to see places, to interact with all people so that from his own experience he could overcome lies, prejudices of mass opinion. to live is to know, not to read, real life experience, real life pain, real life love etc.

yashuah said all of us are the same, we all have the potential, the kingdom of heaven is within, the kingdom of heaven, is your soul. look at his words as symbolic, metaphors etc. he said if you need to speak to the creator, go somewhere quiet, and talk to him/her, like a child to a parent, that personal connection. there is no need to have intermediaries/corrupt clergy, to have rituals, sacrifices, etc. the very people that conspired to kill/murder him, where then given carte blanche to spread his message, and yet we trust them. test them by their fruits, eg test them by their actions not words. look at the wars, pain these authroties have caused, one must be deluded to view these evil actions as love.

i know its scary, volatile, knowing the true nature of life, but fear not, for in you resides an eternal soul, in you is the love/power/blessing of the creator. recognise your divinty, you are not a god, but a wonderful, creation. everybody is the son/daughter of the creator, that was his message, he said when i am the son of god, that he was a creation of the creator, like all of us. he wanted to show you to have love, trust, confidence in yourself, so you could fulfill your potential. the elite hide this, to stop you recognising your own power, and to keep them in control.

http://www.davidpbrown.co.uk/nota-bene/mar...williamson.html

Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate.
Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure.
It is our Light, not our darkness that most frightens us.

We ask ourselves -- Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous?

Actually, who are we not to be?

You are a child of God. Your playing small does not serve the world. There is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people do not feel insecure around you. We were born to manifest the Glory of God that is within us. It is not just in some of us, it is in everyone.

And as we let our light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our own fears, our presence automatically liberates others.

think the most important things is the message and its correlation with krishna and buddha message, its the same. so what could one deduce from this, well maybe buddha, yashuah were all based on the original krishna, or as some hindus believe, all these were incarnations of the same spirit who visits in times of peril, the last one being now, kalki. to me krishna is the earliest "saviour/teacher", and the subsequent ones all follow same pattern/message. there is a book, called the worlds 12 crucified saviours, something like that. from osiris, yashuah etc all follow the same blueprint. also as for thomas, gnostic, nag hammadhi etc, you have be weary of them, as they could be opposames created by the elite.

to be honest the only important things is the message, not the texts, teachers/messenger. see if regular people like us have spoke of this message from our own deduction, and it mirrors the message of the teachers, then we need not argue abour semantics, differences. it also shows us that the message, is a simple spirtual/universal truth, and is accessible and within us all eg akashic. maybe when a person truly opens himself up, the message is what he/she finds inside. the truth is within. in my view the universal truth is a simple and logical one, quite a paradox. if a hfa/aspie gen x slacker like me can work it out, then anyone can.


1love, peace

[chicken_little]

Seanx, I have stated in several of my posts that I am a Christian. I want to say that if I have offended you at all with anything I posted, it wasn't my intent. I'm not here to convert, convince, or manipulate anyone away from their current spirituality. I am here to read about things that I find interesting, like UFOs, the paranormal, extraterrestrials, conspiracy theories, secret societies, etc. But sometimes it's hard not to chime in on a discussion with my own opinion, even if that means including something religion related.

Anyway...I'm not sure if you were lumping me into your stereotype of 'Jesus freaks' or not. I guess it doesn't bother me either way, but I do want to make it clear that I'm not here on a mission to recruit people into Christianity. I'm here for the truth, even if it comes in a form I don't agree with. :)

[bigus_dickus]

It's obvious the forum has been 'invaded' by the 'Jesus freaks'.

do you mean that christians should be banned?

[synergy777]

no one should be banned, as the ban defeats the whole purpose.

[seanx]

Baron wrote:

Ah so you feel challenged in that you can not just post some occult crap and get loads of suckers to agree with you. Too bad, but it is called free speech, something you are not too comfortable with. Icke insulted Christians for years on his site and he was very dishonest as well. No complains there though, it's only when something goes against the system agenda do you complain.


Listen, most of us have had your christian nonsense stuffed
down our thoats since childhood.

We go to this site for a different, more honest perspective -
not to be followed around by you distorters of christianity.

LOOK, I don't go on your Christian forums trying to convert you
from your ideas.

So why do you feel the need to continually
peddle this nonsense on this forum that we are all sinners -
'dirt of the earth' - and if we don't do what your 'God' says
we will be doomed forever.

I have seen this sick philosophy destroy the thousands of
lives here in Ireland.

Only last month, we had the story of a couple who had spend
nearly 50 years - 50 YEARS- in torment because their little
baby girl had died without been baptised.

For all those years- they were told by the church that
their baby was damed - utterly dammed for eternity because of this.

And NOW - a few months ago- lo and behold the Church has
decided to change it's policy on this - and now they have
decided..'ah, no it won't apply anymore'.

This man and his wife appeared on radio - and the pain
and torment in their voices was heartbreaking.

Yes, they were foolish, they should had had the intelligence
to see through such nonsense - but as the man said - it
was what we were told by them - and we believed it. We
were simple people. We thought
they were telling us the truth.

And now they tell us .....'it was all crap'.

it was just a FEAR device to terrify and to make sure all the other
couples baptised their children into good old christianity.

[seanx]

Chicken little,

I'm not referring to Christians who want to come here with an open mind -
- in fact I'm not anti-Jesus.

I don't know whether he really existed or not - I have an open mind on it.

( My gut feeling is that such a man may indeed have existed - and
may have performed all those incredible feats.

But I think his purpose was not to set up an religion - but to raise up
people eyes. To show them - 'Look, you're not animals- not machines-
you are awesome beings- look what I have done. You too CAN do
that. Even overcome death. He was here to show us the true potential
of each human. )

But I do object to closed minded Christians simply coming on here
to 'save us' and peddle the same old centuries -old nonsense that I
spend my childhood being subjected to.

[edelweiss pirate]

How do you know that the world would actually be a better place without Christianity ever existing?

It could actualy be much worse.

Imagine if we were still druids!

Religion means connecting, like the French, relier... re-connect.

Could be worse... Leave the Christians alone, it's an easy target for angry powerless people, tough guys take on the masons and the Wiccans. Come on, I could do with some help.....

[baron von lotsov]

Ah but all the defence of the occult is regarding what non-Christian people do who claim to be Christian.

How can you tell? Well if someone follows the morals as set out in the Bible then they can be regarded as genuine. School is run by the system and the system can't even keep to the Ten Commandments.

What happens when you make this mistake and proclaim that you do not believe in the Bible is that you seek other beliefs. It seems to be an entirely natural thing for the human mind to seek higher meaning and the Masons are poised and ready to fill this market gap.

[king]

It's obvious the forum has been 'invaded' by the 'Jesus freaks'.

Can I say to people like James 777 - look, it's fine - if you want to
believe in that martrix nonsense - that's fine.

But come on- why do you people always have this obsessive, almost
sick need to covert other people to your Jesus is God alone ideas.

There are plenty of Christian sites you can go onto - and plenty
of other souls you can brainwash- but most people on this frorum are
quite knowledgeable about the true history and origin of the christian
religion - so you are really wasting your time.

The phrase 'banging against a brick wall comes to mind'.

Please go away.

This forum is for people with open minds. We don't need to be saved

people with 'open minds' would not ask other people to change their beliefs or 'go away',
don't you think?

[james777]

It's obvious the forum has been 'invaded' by the 'Jesus freaks'.

Can I say to people like James 777 - look, it's fine - if you want to
believe in that martrix nonsense - that's fine.

But come on- why do you people always have this obsessive, almost
sick need to covert other people to your Jesus is God alone ideas.

There are plenty of Christian sites you can go onto - and plenty
of other souls you can brainwash- but most people on this frorum are
quite knowledgeable about the true history and origin of the christian
religion - so you are really wasting your time.

The phrase 'banging against a brick wall comes to mind'.

Please go away.

This forum is for people with open minds. We don't need to be saved

This post clearly points out feelings and attitudes of 'bigoted hatred'. And you, SEANX, seem to be 'frothing' at the mouth with it.

Now you've used my name a few times here, so let me just clear a few things up for you and others who may be interested. Christianity is a religion....ok, we all get it. If you choose to 'label' others with tags of seperation, that's your right, that is if you enjoy imprisoning yourself further.

I for one follow the teachings of Jesus. This is my choice, I've found un-countable truths within his teachings and I believe in what he says. Just as you choose to believe what you want to believe. Now if you correlate my beliefs with 'obssesive Jesus freaks' and 'organized religion' you've only fooled yourself and have now caused others to stumble thus creating an US vs. THEM scenario. Can't you see that you're adding to this 'so-called matrix'? Your 'revolting' tone is only being used as a 'tool' to expose you and your true intentions, which is obviously, a christian hating bigot. You're not alone though, I've encountered this before.

You can't find one instance where I have tried to force anyone to convert. Is this merely an illusion you have toward all who see the truth in Jesus? Since you have no reason to be saved and I don't see where anyone has stated that you do, why do you feel the need to tell us that you don't? This is the very odd behavior I've encoutered numerous times when confronting 'robotic sheople'. They think that their mind is free because they have 'let go' of religion, but fail to realize that they've let go of 'logical reasoning' as well.

I've heard some of the most bigoted, hateful and close minded comments from the people who actually claim to be 'free'. If you are in fact so 'free', as you claim, why do you feel the need to imprison others with your beliefs using hateful accusations and over-tones?

Look, I believe as I wish and express myself as I wish. If you cannot handle the truth in what I say, maybe it's you who should leave. I do not have hate for you or anyone and have never displayed these attributes. When you are finished 'ranting' about your hate for religion and want to engage in real, mind-freeing chatter I and others will be here.

I suggest that you truly have some time of self-introspect before replying, because your foolishness is starting to be exposed fully.

[edelweiss pirate]

What happens when you make this mistake and proclaim that you do not believe in the Bible is that you seek other beliefs. It seems to be an entirely natural thing for the human mind to seek higher meaning and the Masons are poised and ready to fill this market gap.

That is EXACTLY what is going on. In fact Masons always ask their candidates : "You're not Christians are you?"..

Been asked myself, I said no and so got to go on the next step of the shit ladder.

I still believe Christianity and masonry are two sides of the same shit coin but I know that masons actually fear and respect real Christianity and real Christians, of whom there too few. A true Christian is probably the finest person you could ever met.

I met one once, only one. Best man I ever knew.

[seanx]

edelweiss pirate WROTE;

Could be worse... Leave the Christians alone, it's an easy target for angry powerless people, tough guys take on the masons and the Wiccans. Come on, I could do with some help.....

Have any of you guys ACTUALLY ever read any of David Icke books?

You have got to laugh.

Look, they are ALL THE same. In fact, the Church is probably the most powerful of them all.

King wrote;

people with 'open minds' would not ask other people to change their beliefs or 'go away', don't you think?

Most of us have had this matrix nonsense stuffed down us all
our lives. We all know their stories. And if I want to know more -
I can go to their bloodly forums.

This is the Dave Icke forum where we are discussing HIS ideas -
whether they are right or wrong.

cAN these Christians not give us even a few minutes break from
their need to convert us!!

And why would A closed-minded Christian be doing on a dave
icke forum when the man himself has spent book after book
EXPOSING the matrix nature od their religion.

Again , they'll fully entited to believe WHATEVER they want -
but come on lads - give us one place - one forum where we can
be free of you.

[seanx]

James 777 wrote;

I for one follow the teachings of Jesus. This is my choice, I've found un-countable truths within his teachings and I believe in what he says.
W

Fine, I could care less what you believe. We are all FREE to believe
whatever we want.

But come on- you must think we're all a bit simple on this forum.

I have to ask myself why would anybody who believes what you
do - be doing on a web site that bears the name of a man that
has written book after book exposing what you believe to be
totally nonsense.

I mean David icke goes as far as to claim that is all a complete
fabrication.

Now whether you haven't read ANY of dave icke's books or weren't
aware of that 9 which I don't believe ) or you're here to 'save' us
from our ignorance.

Now let's be straight.

I go on this site to learn and understand more of dave icke
perspective on various issues.

i don't go here to be lectured by some COVERT fundamentalist
Christian that we are all brain-dead and so stupid that we
are part of a cult.

Your post was an insult to all the genuine people on this forum.

And then you end off;

If you cannot handle the truth in what I say, maybe it's
you who should leave.

Can't handle the turth??

Before you insult most of the people here - have
the courtesy of ACTUALLY READING some of David ICKE books.

That if your church allows you...

By the way, you never told us what church you belong to....

[bigus_dickus]

come on sean, after all there is a religion forum in this site. if there was no anti-christianity in here, people would probably not come out as "mad" as you think.

[baron von lotsov]

How was David Icke dishonest about Christianity?

You should know if you read his stuff. I used to read the Icke headlines page but found it completely biased against Christians. To Icke Bush = Christian= murderer. The oversimplification and the outright idiocy of his position effectively blinded him and the occultists were waiting in the wing to offer him enlightenment.

[synergy777]

the funny thing is that the intelligent christians confuse yashuah with the corrupted trinitarian church, and so do the anti religionists, rather amusing the lot of you. so both of you are arguing about the same thing, the corrupt evil elite.

" in reality you are on the same side, as one cannot follow yashuah and then also follow the church/elite. one cannot be against the elite/church and not follow/learn from yashuah."

so there you are, quite simple when you take an objective look, isn't it brothers/sisters.

[seanx]

James 7777

Just as a matter of interest what church do you represent?

And maybe I have taken you up wrongly ...and have you have
genuinely come on to debate new ideas.

But seeing what do believe...ie. in Jesus and that Dave icke
believes that type of religion is a myth...I'm fascinated to know
whch part of David icke ideas genuinely attracts you here.

His ideas on sex...that it is good and should be enjoyed with
someone you love whether you are married or not.

The idea that reality is an illusion ....that it is simply our deepest
beliefs frozen into a temporary manifestation.

The idea that we live in a matrix and in a multi-verse of infinite
dimensions - and that after we die- we will still remained
trapped in the martrix - unless we see it as the illusion it is.

Can there be any reconciliation between your fundamentalist
christianity abd these ideas?

[eternal_spirit]

You tell them seanx this is no Sunday school mid week Christian debate.

It's the ICKE Forum!

[cheeb]

jesus was not god/creator, if he was, then why talk about the father/creator. why not if he was god, defeat the nwo/satan, people are such dim wits. jesus wasn;'t even his real name, anyway, the church knows that. they made a teacher/rebel into a supernatural god man, to fit their antichrist/sol invictus doctrine.yashuah was a real person, like you and me, not a celestial lovechild, its egocentric eurocentric hogwash. a creator who creates galaxies etc, but has to create a virgin lovechild, logic.

Hello,how do,
Here are 3 contradictory/complementary things I heard about Jesus
1
He was born to Mary , a temple virgin
He was the illegitamate son of a Roman Legionary
An Illyrian named Pantera
Joseph(a master mason) took Mary in, and raised Jesus as his own
Jesus was not ashamed of his origin
and later styled himself as
Yesho ben Pantera- Jesus son of Pantera.

2
He was the illegitamate son of Herod Antipater
father to king Herod
Hence he had a rightful claim to the kingship of the Jews
Mary, the temple virgin, stitcher of temple furnishings,
was his mother
She was of the tribe of Kennite
His half brother ,Herod Antipas, knew this
And mocked him by clothing him in a purple robe',a crown of thorns, and a staff of reeds.
Sentencing him to death for sedition and blasphemy,
And letting another prisoner go, Jesus Bar Abbas
source Robert Graves, King Jesus
(excellent mythological reasearcher(the White Godess)
Incedentally King Jesus(controversially) was forewarded by Winston Churchill when it came out in 1954.

3
jehoshua Ha Nosri
fictionalised Jesus
In The Master and Margeuretta (Michael Boulgakov?)
Excellent Read
Ha Nosri and Pilates dialogue with each other is nothing short of a masterpeice

Personally ,I would go with Graves
He is very well respected
And an excellent classical mythologist

Just passing on information-
It's what we do best-innet?
All The Best

POE

pttp

[baron von lotsov]

I'll have a crack at one of those Sean questions.

The Matrix was a film containing a lot of sophisticated brainwashing. It was obviously well tied in with the elite and the messages they wanted to get across. Alice in Wonderland (red pill/blue pill etc) was a book used for Illuminati mind control (I think that came from Springmeier) so really how could it be a secret that could be used to tackle the NWO if it was put out by the very people who are for the NWO?

[james777]

James 7777

Just as a matter of interest what church do you represent?

And maybe I have taken you up wrongly ...and have you have
genuinely come on to debate new ideas.

But seeing what do believe...ie. in Jesus and that Dave icke
believes that type of religion is a myth...I'm fascinated to know
whch part of David icke ideas genuinely attracts you here.

His ideas on sex...that it is good and should be enjoyed with
someone you love whether you are married or not.

The idea that reality is an illusion ....that it is simply our deepest
beliefs frozen into a temporary manifestation.

The idea that we live in a matrix and in a multi-verse of infinite
dimensions - and that after we die- we will still remained
trapped in the martrix - unless we see it as the illusion it is.

Can there be any reconciliation between your fundamentalist
christianity abd these ideas?

Why do you assume that I represent a church? I represent myself, you know him as James777. Of course I'm here to 'expose the dreamworld we believe to be real' and 'debating new ideas' is part of this.

My beliefs and the beliefs of others(including Ickes) may have no common ground in your eyes. As a deep spiritual thinker I believe we are all conveying the same feelings, thoughts and ideas, but we 'display' them in different ways. I'm not prejudice against those who believe differently. One thing I will always do though is say what I feel and what I perceive. How else can I get honest responses if I'm not being honest myself? If this doesn't line up with you or others and doesn't ring true for you and others, I'm sorry, don't take it personal, you'll never get out of your 'mind prison'.

His ideas are great and well thought out. Although I may not morally agree with things he says does not mean that I condemn him. I AM NOBODY'S JUDGE! He's a grown ass man and can conclude and live as he wishes. I am only responsible for myself and only have to answer for myself.

Our ideas are not a matter of 'reconciliation'. It's just two different views and beliefs coming together in this open plane of time-space. You are the one who creates differences and degree's between thought's, idea's and emotion's. This is part of the prison that you so vigorously scorn.

I have not even began to express my deep emotions, expressions and idea's because I would have to assume that it would be a 'slug' fest against me because most here refuse to allow others to express themselves without in-turn try to denigrate them.

I'm just barely scratching the surface here and already, 'webmaster's' and 'moderators' have written me off as a ranting fool. This is an obvious place of 'controlled debate' and definitely NOT for 'open-minded' free 'thinkers'. I wish Icke himself would step in here and stop all this bullshit that he himself claims to be 'part of the prison'. I highly doubt this will happen though..........

[ngawaka19]

And behold the veil is lifted. The light has been shone. I can see now. And the mighty moves in mysterious ways. I give thanks.

I have eaten and the food is pure and whole. I give thanks.

To you syenergy777, a fit warrior of the truth, you are welcomed and cherished, thank you for your love, wisdom, and teachings. I await your next posts. Please tell us more......

this is what I'm talkin about.......

the truth.......

love and light

[oneofmany]

That is EXACTLY what is going on. In fact Masons always ask their candidates : "You're not Christians are you?"..

Been asked myself, I said no and so got to go on the next step of the shit ladder.

I still believe Christianity and masonry are two sides of the same shit coin but I know that masons actually fear and respect real Christianity and real Christians, of whom there too few. A true Christian is probably the finest person you could ever met.

I met one once, only one. Best man I ever knew.I think you have been watching to much trailer park boys, am I right? :D

[amadeus]

That is EXACTLY what is going on. In fact Masons always ask their candidates : "You're not Christians are you?"..

Been asked myself, I said no and so got to go on the next step of the shit ladder.


Are you saying that you're or you've been a Mason? Maybe you've told your story in earlier post, sorry - I'm just curious. :)

[klinker]

Jesus saves. Pele taps in the rebound.

[i am all i am]

people with 'open minds' would not ask other people to change their beliefs or 'go away',
don't you think?

G'day King.

Actually people with 'open minds' would ASK, while people with closed minds would TELL.



http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/3/3D_emoticon_S34.gif With LOVE http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/3/3D_emoticon_S36.gif

[i am all i am]

...I AM NOBODY'S JUDGE!.....

And yet you do !!!



http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/3/3D_emoticon_S34.gif With LOVE http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/3/3D_emoticon_S36.gif

[edelweiss pirate]

Are you saying that you're or you've been a Mason? Maybe you've told your story in earlier post, sorry - I'm just curious. :)


Nearly became one... the cummulation of about 5 years of their slow infiltration into my life and the lives' of my friends, ended with me becoming illuminated and finding myself backmailed into joining otherwise they would fail me on the teacher training course.

I refused and passed anyway.

But no, never took any oaths and never went to a lodge. Lodge is irrelevant to illuminated masonry anyway... The 'lodge' becomes your own mind and the streets and public places meeting places where synchronised occurances take place which develop the initiate's mind comtrol and psychic abilities... largely driven through terror...

I kind of became a Christian (born again) to counter act their 'damnation' mind control, which is honestly how I personally felt about the illumination. At first it was fun, like being high on acid the whole time...

Then you realise things aren't quite right when you can't eat food anymore and can't sleep... then the hallucinations start... I guess it depends on what it in your own mind to start with, but in my opinion, all of us have a great deal of soul pollution from this world... What's worse is that the people you get involved with are creepy in the extreme and cannot be trusted. Young masons are not actually allowed to carry money with them (they have a friend who carries their wallet and pays their way) often they are totally broke and they get by by begging borrowing and stealing.

Dodgy horrible people the spies and initiates.... they mess your head up totally... and they all have something lost and hopeless about them, that's because of the loss of emotions... Funny thing is though they keep their anger, typical eh?

[seanx]

you'll never get out of your 'mind prison'.

You keep on telling us that WE are in a 'mind prision'.

We may be...

But all we're saying is that you are in the biggest 'mind prision' of
them all - organized religion.

The reason I responded to your post originally is that in virtually all of
your large posts - you always seem to ( accidently?) get in the fact
Jesus is your saviour and he alone is God.

Now there's nothing wrong in writing a post ...and telling us you what
you believe.

But come on....your posts were very subtle ....and embedded
with all these 'Jesus will save you ' stuff.

By the nature of this forum, most people are read up on this stuff
and can spot people playing such games.

I still notice you won't reveal the 'church' you bat for..... there must
be some 'church' you have the confidence to declare for.

I don't want to have to ask three times.....in case .....

[edelweiss pirate]

Don't knock Jesus Sean, he can actually come in quite useful...

Like a superhero who can magically clear you of all the bad things you may have done...

I know I needed the Jesus archetype when I threw away my birthright by consenting to become a mason. At that moment I said 'transform me' and I was transformed, had a bit of a buzz for a few days then realised I might be in some kind of spiritual danger so hightailed it outa there... Jesus saved me, good for him.

[seanx]

The Matrix was a film containing a lot of sophisticated brainwashing. It was obviously well tied in with the elite and the messages they wanted to get across. Alice in Wonderland (red pill/blue pill etc) was a book used for Illuminati mind control (I think that came from Springmeier) so really how could it be a secret that could be used to tackle the NWO if it was put out by the very people who are for the NWO?

The matrix WAS a film.

Fiction.

Make believe.

Dave icke ONLY uses it as an analogy ....as a crude way of trying
to express or get across an idea that is relativley new to human consciousness.

Of course the analogy is not perfect ( personally I think
it's quite poor - as most people get the wrong idea) but he is not
talking about the film in a literal sense.

He is using it to suggest something deeper.

How we are all falling asleep and with all our preprogrammed
responses, we are turing into beings who have as little freedom
and originality as machines.

In fact - he's saying that's how the 'Elite' see us - as easily programmable 'machines' that they can use use and manipulate
to create the energy frequences of fear that are addicted to and
nourished by.

So the word matrix is used in that sense - and not a literal description
of the film.

That is my understanding of it. There are other people on this forum
who would have a better grasp of this - and they may contribute later
on.

[celtic isis]

If these guys are "true christians" then the fact that they are here maybe shows they are not so sure about there beliefs and feel they need to come here to re-certify there by beliefs, who knows.

As long an nobody tries to make me follow or believe something against my will and i have told them to f off and they stop, why let it bother you.

good advice there joy division :)

good to see you about seanx i kept missing you around!

i don't see how icke was wrong in what he said about christianity? Anyway it's all been twisted, jesus, in my understandsing so far, was a messenger, a prophet, and an earthly man, and his words were all twisted into a dogma to imprison the rest of the less thinking masses into ignorance and acceptance of lies...

I don't consider myself anything (religon-wise), i was brought up catholic and i've turned out pretty well imo :D I guess i live as a christian i.e. help people, be kind, don't kill anybody lol and generally be a good person...but then that's just being a good decent human being isn't it.

It's a pity more christians wouldn't do us all a favour and actually follow what their jesus ACTUALLY said instead of telling good people what they should or shouldn't be doing, or that salvation is with jesus alone lol. Cause i hate to tell you this but it isn't, salvation is only within ourselves ALONE. However, we are all in this together, the sooner we realise that the better :D Respect and tolerance people.

[celtic isis]

Don't knock Jesus Sean, he can actually come in quite useful...

Like a superhero who can magically clear you of all the bad things you may have done...

I know I needed the Jesus archetype when I threw away my birthright by consenting to become a mason. At that moment I said 'transform me' and I was transformed, had a bit of a buzz for a few days then realised I might be in some kind of spiritual danger so hightailed it outa there... Jesus saved me, good for him.

kool you were a mason edelweiss? you mind me asking what happened? sorry i just see you already posted your story!

Funny you didn't actually go to a lodge, how do you know what it's about then?

How did your illumination happen?

And hey, BTW YOU SAVED YOURSELF.

[celtic isis]

The matrix WAS a film.

Fiction.

Make believe.

Dave icke ONLY uses it as an analogy ....as a crude way of trying
to express or get across an idea that is relativley new to human consciousness.

Of course the analogy is not perfect ( personally I think
it's quite poor - as most people get the wrong idea) but he is not
talking about the film in a literal sense.

He is using it to suggest something deeper.

How we are all falling asleep and with all our preprogrammed
responses, we are turing into beings who have as little freedom
and originality as machines.

In fact - he's saying that's how the 'Elite' see us - as easily programmable 'machines' that they can use use and manipulate
to create the energy frequences of fear that are addicted to and
nourished by.

So the word matrix is used in that sense - and not a literal description
of the film.

That is my understanding of it. There are other people on this forum
who would have a better grasp of this - and they may contribute later
on.

well said seanx :) actually you've cleared this up for me cause i didn't liek icke's analogy with the matrix films either but it makes sense now.

[celtic isis]

Nearly became one... the cummulation of about 5 years of their slow infiltration into my life and the lives' of my friends, ended with me becoming illuminated and finding myself backmailed into joining otherwise they would fail me on the teacher training course.

I refused and passed anyway.

But no, never took any oaths and never went to a lodge. Lodge is irrelevant to illuminated masonry anyway... The 'lodge' becomes your own mind and the streets and public places meeting places where synchronised occurances take place which develop the initiate's mind comtrol and psychic abilities... largely driven through terror...

I kind of became a Christian (born again) to counter act their 'damnation' mind control, which is honestly how I personally felt about the illumination. At first it was fun, like being high on acid the whole time...

Then you realise things aren't quite right when you can't eat food anymore and can't sleep... then the hallucinations start... I guess it depends on what it in your own mind to start with, but in my opinion, all of us have a great deal of soul pollution from this world... What's worse is that the people you get involved with are creepy in the extreme and cannot be trusted. Young masons are not actually allowed to carry money with them (they have a friend who carries their wallet and pays their way) often they are totally broke and they get by by begging borrowing and stealing.

Dodgy horrible people the spies and initiates.... they mess your head up totally... and they all have something lost and hopeless about them, that's because of the loss of emotions... Funny thing is though they keep their anger, typical eh?


omg what you said there is a load of rubbish lol

that's NOT true abotu young masons not being allowed to carry money, that doesn't even make sense????
:confused:

My OH is a mason and he's the opposite of this lol :rolleyes: his lodge must be extremely laid back so! and i've met his fellow masons.

There are only 2 meetings a month, how are oyu ment to go about daily life with someone else carrying your money for you lol????

[edelweiss pirate]

kool you were a mason edelweiss? you mind me asking what happened? It sounds like it wasn't a good experience...? sorry i just see you already posted your story!

And hey, BTW YOU SAVED YOURSELF. :)

...Saved myself, yeah kinda.... but you need an outside reference when you no longer trust yourself... a sign that you will be guided when you've lost your way... Jesus kind of does that.... Many ex cia and masons folks become born again in Jesus, that's why, because they literally cannot forgive themselves.. they need the Jesus cultural icon to do it, and this idea is not exclusive to Jesus but also to Bachus Apollo and Mithras and a whole load of other 'forgiving' Gods who took the sins of the world upon themselves...

It's just a system for moral guidance at the end of the day and a way to control the existence of evil in the world.. because if you believe you are evil and can never be cured, how much worse the world would be, much better that 'Jesus' is there to forgive you and give you a second chance and save you from Satan.. because even if Satan isn't real, the idea of him is strong enough to make him real in this world.

[edelweiss pirate]

omg what you said there is a load of rubbish lol

that's NOT true abotu young masons not being allowed to carry money, that doesn't even make sense????
:confused:

My OH is a mason and he's the opposite of this lol :rolleyes: his lodge must be extremely laid back so! and i've met his fellow masons.

There are only 2 meetings a month, how are oyu ment to go about daily life with someone else carrying your money for you lol????


You know nothing at all about masonry and are probably a troll. My experiences are first hand yours are at best second hand but in my view entirely fictitious. I've had my doubts about you for a while, since the Sarkozy thread where you pretend to understand French, so you could debunk our claim that Sarkozu was on drugs which I believe he was, your comments there show you claim to understand French but don't at all.. ironic, even when Jean Pierre outed your error you still claimed to be right.

Thanks for the clarity.. now how about you get off this site you debunker disinfo #%$%!

I tend to be a good judge of people, I've nailed you now Isis!

[synergy777]

Jesus saves. Pele taps in the rebound.


thats a classic.

[synergy777]

the funny thing is that the intelligent christians confuse yashuah with the corrupted trinitarian church, and so do the anti religionists, rather amusing the lot of you. so both of you are arguing about the same thing, the corrupt evil elite.

" in reality you are on the same side, as one cannot follow yashuah and then also follow the church/elite. one cannot be against the elite/church and not follow/learn from yashuah."

so there you are, quite simple when you take an objective look, isn't it brothers/sisters.


this is so simple, all this yashuah bashing, when its the vatican, you should aiming at, as they corrupted thetexts/message and control the new age/wiccan/satanic stuff anyway, its coke and diet coke analogy. so to say yahsuah was this or that, is incredibly stupid. to confuse yashuah and the mithras clone in the bible, is what they want you do, and thats what exactly the bible bashers and the new age prats do. you both have been had, the truth is the middle, straight and narrow is the way. see they force you to come to a fork in the road, left or right, me, i just drove straight, and then started to fly, lol

i ask any christian, or new age person to a debate on their beliefs, its an open challenge, this ignorance of truth and endless childish debate is losing its comedic value.

[john white]

I'll have a crack at one of those Sean questions.

The Matrix was a film containing a lot of sophisticated brainwashing. It was obviously well tied in with the elite and the messages they wanted to get across. Alice in Wonderland (red pill/blue pill etc) was a book used for Illuminati mind control (I think that came from Springmeier) so really how could it be a secret that could be used to tackle the NWO if it was put out by the very people who are for the NWO?


One can say exactly the same about Christianity itself: if anything, the New Testament was the Matrix for the birth of the age of Pisces

I still believe Christianity and masonry are two sides of the same shit coin but I know that masons actually fear and respect real Christianity and real Christians, of whom there too few. A true Christian is probably the finest person you could ever met.

I met one once, only one. Best man I ever knew.

Agreed: but its not becuase they are Christian: its becuase they have a flowing God connection: we find these true heros in all religions and all other systems of thought, they are those dedicated to the heart of their being to follow the map to the destination. Some of them even follow the map described (but certainly not made by) Icke

[james777]

You keep on telling us that WE are in a 'mind prision'.

We may be...

But all we're saying is that you are in the biggest 'mind prision' of
them all - organized religion.

The reason I responded to your post originally is that in virtually all of
your large posts - you always seem to ( accidently?) get in the fact
Jesus is your saviour and he alone is God.

Now there's nothing wrong in writing a post ...and telling us you what
you believe.

But come on....your posts were very subtle ....and embedded
with all these 'Jesus will save you ' stuff.

By the nature of this forum, most people are read up on this stuff
and can spot people playing such games.

I still notice you won't reveal the 'church' you bat for..... there must
be some 'church' you have the confidence to declare for.

I don't want to have to ask three times.....in case .....


Ok, since it seems to be of utmost importance, I used to attend a christain church called, 'The Church of God'.

How do you assume that my 'mind prison' is the biggest of them all? Prison is prison. We all have to believe in something and believing 'I am me, I am free' is no different. I choose to believe in Jesus and his teachings because they actually apply to my everyday life. Real issues and real problems can all be understood better by the words of Jesus. I believe that the simple belief in him is enough to save my soul. I understand that most of you think 'you don't need saved' and that's all well and good, again, your choice, my choice.

Hey, I'll tell you what, if I go through life and try to live and abide by the Teachings of Christ and it helps me on my journey and I become a better person for it and I gain wisdom and insight and then I die and it was all for nothing, Great, no harm done. On the other hand, if I refuse to follow him and rebuke his word and purpose and DO NOT believe and then I die and find it to be true, that wouldn't be so great.

If you wanna take it to the next level, one can assume that this planet is a prison. It wasn't always like this, but through time man has 'chosen' to imprison himself. The truth is here, but seeing it is a whole other story. Death is the only option out. We will live life and search until we find truth, some of us searching for money, happiness, peace....ect.....When one finds truth and balance and then tries to convey it to the rest, it becomes quite interesting at the result. Anger and hatred become the most obvious reaction because when one thinks that the other has found 'truth' it's a lot easier to dismiss his thoughts then to agree. This is called 'ego' and 'pride'. When mixed with 'anger' and 'hatred' this becomes a deadly, blinding cocktail.

We're like 'crabs in a barrell'. When one sees the other climbing toward the light and reaching the 'apex' the rest will pull him down because they don't wanna see him get out leaving them behind. Same thing here, instead of objectively listening to others idea's, it becomes quite easy to 'gang up' and shoot them 'down'. Look, if you don't like what I say and feel that I am 'pushing my religion' on you, you can 'ignore' me or 'confront' me. The choice is yours, but don't expect me to just back down on my beliefs.

I've had a question for quite some time and have asked a few people, but never got a response. So, I'll pose this question to you.

"If you are so 'free minded' and 'love minded', why does what I say 'trap' you?"

This is an important question because when one asks themselves they must first look inwardly and possibly face answers they have been hiding deep and pushing down(just like the crabs in the barrell).

It's all quite simple, 'true freedom' is 'choice'. So you either choose to be 'imprisoned' or choose to be 'free'. I think one of the most common mis-conceptions is what freedom really is, so when you figure this out, perhaps you can put your hate, confusion and anger aside.

[synergy777]

why do you call him by christ, greek for annointed. why do you fail to reslise the church, from circe/greek is not yashuahs place. are you stupid enough to believe, that those who killed him, are to be trusted with his message. the ones who killed him, created the chruch, bible. why do people refuse to engage their brain, logic, this is common sense.

if bush killed a good person/truthseeker, then started a church, book in his name, would you believe it? seperate yashuah from the churhc, as yashuah said, "there are those who say they know me, but they know me not" he called them synagogue of satan, he meant the clergy, so carry on mis believing, its your choice. the elite must laugh their socks off seeing the profane act this stupid. cultural prejudice, insecurity, is a bitch.

[bigus_dickus]

from circe/greek is not yashuahs place.

this one is wrong, the connection of Kirke with church. there is no way that Kirke, the witch of greek mythology has anything to do with the word church. it is disinformation plain and simple.

[seanx]

James 777
You seem to be under the illusion that people on this forum are upset
or threatened by what you believe.

Most of us couldn't care less.

What I object to people like yourself coming on to the site -
not to debate - but by using embedded statements trying
to save us from our 'ignorance'. And think we are too dim
to notice.

You are fully free to tell us all about your religious beliefs - but
be OPEN and full about it.


When one finds truth and balance and then tries to convey it to the rest, it becomes quite interesting at the result. Anger and hatred become the most obvious reaction because when one thinks that the other has found 'truth' it's a lot easier to dismiss his thoughts then to agree

You see, this is what I find incredible.

If you truely had read dave icke - his work is all about dismantling
all the conditioning we have been taught , especially all the
organized religious brainwashibg -and then letting people reach
their own conclusion.

In fact, he says in 'Infinite love', it's very likely he could dump
everything he has written if that is where the truth , as he
perceives leads him.

I think it is this openness of mind that really terrifies your christian
fundamentalism.

And your church, that's not the one by founded by a certain Herbert Armstrong?

[seanx]

edelweiss pirate wrote:

he was, your comments there show you claim to understand French but don't at all.. ironic, even when Jean Pierre outed your error you still claimed to be right.

Thanks for the clarity.. now how about you get off this site you debunker disinfo #%$%!

I tend to be a good judge of people, I've nailed you now Isis!

I'm sorry, Bud, but you were the guy who wrote yesterday that all
Christians were fine and upstanding citizens.

I must introduce you a few of our most fine and upstanding Christians
priests here in Ireland.

Well, not today--come back in about 20 years after they've finished
their jail sentences.

To Celtic isis.

Your OH is a Mason. God, you'se must have great conversations
over the breakfast table!!

Does he read your dave icke books?

[edelweiss pirate]

Oh Sean I'm bored of you now... You're the intolerant and aggressive one here... The only guy I'd fear running the world would be someone like you... dogmatic, holding other people's views in contempt, and inflexible... Wow, I guess you do become what you hate eh? You sound like your idea of a Christian...

Live and let live and get a clue... It's the masons stooopid! Your priests are Satanists not Christians.. They're only pretending to be Christians... get it?

Ahh! who cares... nurture your hate let it grow, and see what ya get.....

[seanx]

Cheers, Bud.

A lovely tolerant, love-filled message.

I sure do love you born-again Christians.

[james777]

James 777
You seem to be under the illusion that people on this forum are upset
or threatened by what you believe.

Most of us couldn't care less.

What I object to people like yourself coming on to the site -
not to debate - but by using embedded statements trying
to save us from our 'ignorance'. And think we are too dim
to notice.

You are fully free to tell us all about your religious beliefs - but
be OPEN and full about it.




You see, this is what I find incredible.

If you truely had read dave icke - his work is all about dismantling
all the conditioning we have been taught , especially all the
organized religious brainwashibg -and then letting people reach
their own conclusion.

In fact, he says in 'Infinite love', it's very likely he could dump
everything he has written if that is where the truth , as he
perceives leads him.

I think it is this openness of mind that really terrifies your christian
fundamentalism.

And your church, that's not the one by founded by a certain Herbert Armstrong?

ILLUSION?!?!.........LOL....I just need to take a moment and laugh....................OK, I'm good now.

Judging by all the 'cuss words' and 'objections' about my point of view, this not only PROVES my point, but also 'demonstrates' how individuals react when they are 'upset' or 'threatened'.

If people(you) could really care less, as you claim. Why then have you made SO many attempts to try to refute my words? You actually started this thread; "invasion of the mad christians".

Debate- A formal discussion on a particular topic in a 'public' meeting or legislative assembly, in which opposing arguments are put foreward.

Now that the definition is clear, please explain how I've done anything but this. All your 'outlook' about me 'embedding' information is simply derived of a 'fear' and 'prejudice' that YOU have, mainly toward christians and religion. Just because I insert my feelings, based on 'my' perception, and you happen to dis-agree does not mean that I am 'embedding' information so I can subtly tell you what you need to do in your own life. This is 'class-a' mind imprisonment. Your blood pressure must be at 'alarming' levels. You seem to get so worked up and excited that you miss the point of fact in things, therefore creating your own 'delusional' scenario's.

I have done nothing but be OPEN and full in my posts. How much more open would 'you' like me to be?

Exactly, I have reached my 'own' conclusion. Just because David Icke says it's so does not mean that it is. If you like to jump feet first and become totally 'embedded' in something, great, that's your free choice to exercise. I for one take all information into account and draw my own conclusions, just as 'Icke' urges. I'm becoming curious with your reading habit's. Do you actually read 'Icke's' work and digest what it says or do you use the same 'style' of reading as you do the Bible, missing the point entirely?

Open minded people do not terrify me. Where have you seen 'fear' in any one of my posts? I speak with confidence and display my points of view with valor. It is you who has displayed attributes of terror.

The founder of the church was Stephen W. Stewart.

[seanx]

James 777.....

We have obviously rattled your cage....

Now your Church of God surely can't have the same Name as
the church of God founded by old Herbert.

The same Herbert who began 'dogmatically predicting in 1953 that the
"Great Tribulation" prophesied in Matthew 24 would begin in 1972, and
that Jesus Christ would return to the earth to set up His Millennial
Kingdom in 1975'.

So if you're not that group which group of fumdamentalists are
you from?

Despite all your protestations, this is an open forum ...and you're
quite free to tell us what you believe ...


I'm still fascinated by one thing: With your view of the world....
what is it that attracts you to a forum debating Dave icke's ideas.

There must be some aspect of his philosophy that maybe you do
agree with.

What is it, please tell?

[james777]

James 777.....

We have obviously rattled your cage....

Now your Church of God surely can't have the same Name as
the church of God founded by old Herbert.

The same Herbert who began 'dogmatically predicting in 1953 that the
"Great Tribulation" prophesied in Matthew 24 would begin in 1972, and
that Jesus Christ would return to the earth to set up His Millennial
Kingdom in 1975'.

So if you're not that group which group of fumdamentalists are
you from?

Despite all your protestations, this is an open forum ...and you're
quite free to tell us what you believe ...


I'm still fascinated by one thing: With your view of the world....
what is it that attracts you to a forum debating Dave icke's ideas.

There must be some aspect of his philosophy that maybe you do
agree with.

What is it, please tell?

I've got to be honest. You've been nothing but 'assumptious' and 'blameful'. Any information I give you, you just turn around and 'scorn' it.

You seem to have all the answers yourself and I no longer wish to have discussion with you, my choice. You've missed all of my points because you are already 'programmed' to believe what you believe without the possibility of anything else. If this makes you happy, great. Do your thing!

By the way, I wasn't around in the 50's so I don't know. The founder of the church I went to is Stephen W. Stewart. What else do you want from me??

[seanx]

I wasn't around in the fifties, either my friend - but there you go -
no answer to either of the two simple questions.

I didn't think you would answer them.

How could you ?

As for ;

you are already 'programmed' to believe what you believe
without the possibility of anything else

Please, come on. I'aint the one who is waiting for Jesus to come
down and save me.

I'm ending my posting to this thread now:

It's now getting pointless.

I hope maybe in the future you and the rest of your christians fundamentalists friends might be a little bit more open - and
instead of always slipping in 'Jesus is my saviour' -
and 'Jesus alone is God' verbal implants into virtually very long
post you submit - you might just engage in honest debate,
without hiding your church role.

There's nothing wrong with your Church role - no one objects to it -
though you seem obsessed with the idea that we do.

Just be upfront with it

[james777]

I wasn't around in the fifties, either my friend - but there you go -
no answer to either of the two simple questions.

I didn't think you would answer them.

How could you ?

As for ;



Please, come on. I'aint the one who is waiting for Jesus to come
down and save me.

I'm ending my posting to this thread now:

It's now getting pointless.

I hope maybe in the future you and the rest of your christians fundamentalists friends might be a little bit more open - and
instead of always slipping in 'Jesus is my saviour' -
and 'Jesus alone is God' verbal implants into virtually very long
post you submit - you might just engage in honest debate,
without hiding your church role.

There's nothing wrong with your Church role - no one objects to it -
though you seem obsessed with the idea that we do.

Just be upfront with it

LOL.......

[baron von lotsov]

The matrix WAS a film.

Fiction.

Make believe.

Dave icke ONLY uses it as an analogy ....as a crude way of trying
to express or get across an idea that is relativley new to human consciousness.

Of course the analogy is not perfect ( personally I think
it's quite poor - as most people get the wrong idea) but he is not
talking about the film in a literal sense.

He is using it to suggest something deeper.

How we are all falling asleep and with all our preprogrammed
responses, we are turing into beings who have as little freedom
and originality as machines.

In fact - he's saying that's how the 'Elite' see us - as easily programmable 'machines' that they can use use and manipulate
to create the energy frequences of fear that are addicted to and
nourished by.

So the word matrix is used in that sense - and not a literal description
of the film.

That is my understanding of it. There are other people on this forum
who would have a better grasp of this - and they may contribute later
on.

OK fair enough. I must admit I have not been too clear about why Icke uses that word and the coincidence with the film. Obviously there is more to it than the word since he was making a lot out of the red pill/blue pill bollox. Actually this is mind control in a sense because one technique is the black and white programming or over simplification of reality, the fundamentalist programming if you like.

Anyway back to the matrix, I always used to call what you describe as simply 'the system' but it has had a few other names besides. This is the point of the NWO and it is like a giant computer system and programmed in an identical way. (I'm a professional programmer myself, so I know and see it clearly). However it is real, its not in your imagination, it is done scientifically using polls and readers comments and surveys by NGOs to feed the inputs and policy adjustments as outputs. Also I don't agree with some of the solutions put forward. But true there is a mental element to it where we are not entirely in control of our own actions and function like automatons to the stimuli. See BF Skinner and his experiments, that'll give you a pretty close approximation of how the elite think of us.

However someone telling you that you are brainwashed is not sufficient. I'm a great believer in the scientific logical process and this is precisely what the system wants to suppress in us. It might only take someone to regain their logical analytical abilities and then they could rescue themselves. The system needs to become apparent in the minds of those it controls and a mind that is not able to comprehend it is quite helpless.

There is a branch of mathematics called operational research, which is where the system is at. They don't want just anybody to understand these things, just the PhD useful idiots. We need to know enough about it so we can convince the useful idiots to wake up. They have all been fed the standard bollox and we need strong counter arguments in their language. You can do far more damage by educating the people who are pushing the buttons.

[baron von lotsov]

1948 -- Walden II by behavioral psychologist B.F. Skinner proposes "a perfect society or new and more perfect order" in which children are reared by the State, rather than by their parents and are trained from birth to demonstrate only desirable behavior and characteristics. Skinner's ideas would be widely implemented by educators in the 1960s, 70s, and 80s as Values Clarification and Outcome Based Education.

http://www.khouse.org/articles/1997/90/

[kasalt]

James 777.....

Now your Church of God surely can't have the same Name as
the church of God founded by old Herbert.

So if you're not from that which group of fumdamentalists are
you from?

The Church of God is not the same denomination as the Worldwide Church of God that was founded by Herbert W. Armstrong. The Church of God is evangelical/pentecostal in beliefs and practices. They are among the much better Christian denominations I have come across in my time--so far as I can tell. I never attended. I knew some who attended when I was growing up, good people. Here's their site for more info:

http://www.churchofgod.cc/about/church_is.cfm

[king]

edelweiss pirate WROTE;



Have any of you guys ACTUALLY ever read any of David Icke books?

You have got to laugh.

Look, they are ALL THE same. In fact, the Church is probably the most powerful of them all.

King wrote;



Most of us have had this matrix nonsense stuffed down us all
our lives. We all know their stories. And if I want to know more -
I can go to their bloodly forums.

This is the Dave Icke forum where we are discussing HIS ideas -
whether they are right or wrong.

cAN these Christians not give us even a few minutes break from
their need to convert us!!

And why would A closed-minded Christian be doing on a dave
icke forum when the man himself has spent book after book
EXPOSING the matrix nature od their religion.

Again , they'll fully entited to believe WHATEVER they want -
but come on lads - give us one place - one forum where we can
be free of you.

with all do respect -- i think that you are barely slicing through the first layer
of the Matrix, or you are still looking at the shadows on the walls of Plato's cave.

there are lot more Matrix layers to go through, and once you break through them you will be more forgiving not only of religious people but many more kinds of people, who are all amipulated.

my advice is to ignore what you do not like to hear if it irritates you, but better yet -- try to learn as why religious people are manipulated by asking them questions that would make them challenge their own beliefs.
You can only do good in doing so, for you and for them.

i think that such method would be lot more productive than getting upset about their opinions or beliefs.

BTW, even though this is Icke forum -- that does not mean that we should not question what he wrote in his books or what he preached in his videos
That is not the path to enlightenment..
a trully free human being who loves the truth more than anything will question everything and everyone including his own self, his own beliefs, and he will question his "gurus" as well. What if his guru is wrong? Like all of them were, because they are all human.

once you reach the stage in your awakening process that you finally beginning to question yourself -- you will begin to get to know yourself, and that is the ultimate goal, that is what external elements that control the matrix do not want you to learn. Who you really are.

Hope this helps

[king]

1948 -- Walden II by behavioral psychologist B.F. Skinner proposes "a perfect society or new and more perfect order" in which children are reared by the State, rather than by their parents and are trained from birth to demonstrate only desirable behavior and characteristics. Skinner's ideas would be widely implemented by educators in the 1960s, 70s, and 80s as Values Clarification and Outcome Based Education.

http://www.khouse.org/articles/1997/90/

Skinner was an evil man!
they already achieved that by breaking up the families, where single mothers are busy, busy, busy working often 2 jobs while street, shitty school programs, peer pressure, TV/entertainment with barrage of sex, violence and nihilism are programming the children.

all of that implemented scientifically by the state think thanks and sickos like Skinner, Freud and many others.

[edelweiss pirate]

I will say that of all the posters ranting and slagging each other off on this thread the only one to have kept cool and polite is the 'Christian' James 777 ( I use the comas because the term is an invention of the Romans... 'follower of the way' was what Jesus said)...

Well done James for showing all the virtues of your church.

[eternal_spirit]

This is so typical.....the Christians can't even agree on their own teachings, why is there so many sects, different names for one truth, interpretations on one book and a man named Jesus??? But they come togther en masse (mass) when their false belief system is challenged as this thread proves.

Okay back to arguing about is it yaweeh, yeshu, Jesus etc etc?? Who is the real son of God??? You haven't got a clue really have you any of you Christians???

You have fallen for one of the biggest longest running scams on Earth.

[edelweiss pirate]

So what would the world be like without any religion?

The Bible encourages people to be good to each other, not to sin (do bad things) and also gives a medical and legal framework on how to live as a community on earth.

Are you saying that humans don't sin? That we never do bad things?

Christianity seeks to address 'sin' ie bad things that we do.

Try to take a more pragamatic approach ES.

[eternal_spirit]

Oh God lol first words that come to mind. I'm here to wake you up and do you all a favour ( the christians ) We don't need Religion to show us how to be better people etc. We have an inbuilt knowingness of what's right and wrong, that's natural to all of us.

Why waste you're life trying to find meaning in the Bible??? You won't become enlightened or know the 'truth' how can lies be true???

I'm dissapointed to be honest now I've realised how many of you there are on here. You go on about others being wrong or mind controlled by the matrix etc etc. When you yourselves have given you're minds over to the big lie of Christ.

Hope there are more people here like myself that can see through the lies and break free of the programming, that's what I thought this Forum was for.

[chicken_little]

The unfair stereotyping of Christians and non-Christians in this thread is upsetting and disappointing.

[eternal_spirit]

So what would the world be like without any religion?

The Bible encourages people to be good to each other, not to sin (do bad things) and also gives a medical and legal framework on how to live as a community on earth.

Are you saying that humans don't sin? That we never do bad things?

Christianity seeks to address 'sin' ie bad things that we do.

Try to take a more pragamatic approach ES.

The World would be much better without any religion. You know before man invented religion maybe he was more peacefull, loving and enlightened back then.
Look if they spent more time sorting out the problems on earth instead of preaching pompous lies in temples, churches and synogogues. Then they tell us where imperfect and we can become perfect through their teachings( like they believe themselves to be more perfect and closer to God)
Christianity is the same as the Freemasonic philosophy, where imperfect join us to become perfect blah blah infinitum.( if it's not the pure race crap it's the pure spiritual crap they'll get you with)

I know where seanx is coming from on this thread he's Irish, like my Grandparents, who came to England both married catholic... protestant English, they wouldn't of been able to do that in Ierland!

pirate you've had personal experiences with the masons which turned sour and left you realising they were wrong. Some of us here have had bad experiences with Born again and all manner of different Christians in our own lives. I just don't get it, why did you need to accept christ after rejecting masonry???

[eternal_spirit]

The unfair stereotyping of Christians and non-Christians in this thread is upsetting and disappointing.

LOl some of it's so true.

[synergy777]

its unfair due to compromised judgement.

[eternal_spirit]

Okay, to us none Christ followers when we get info from Christians we're not sure if we can trust the source. Now there is a double standard here. Christians would have the same issues about trusting the source if it came from a none Christian.

I'm open minded enough to accept the message be it from what ever source if the facts and information seem to me to add up.

But the big BUT lol Oh nevermind forget it.

[titurel]

this one is wrong, the connection of Kirke with church. there is no way that Kirke, the witch of greek mythology has anything to do with the word church. it is disinformation plain and simple.

I just looked up 'church' in the Oxford Dictionary I have on my living room shelf and sure enough it says that the word 'church' comes from Circe! Fascinating!

[chicken_little]

Okay, to us none Christ followers when we get info from Christians we're not sure if we can trust the source. Now there is a double standard here. Christians would have the same issues about trusting the source if it came from a none Christian.

I'm open minded enough to accept the message be it from what ever source if the facts and information seem to me to add up.

That's precisely how I feel. I've been calling my own Christian beliefs into question for some time now because certain things do not add up. I'll not delve into specifics right now though. But you're spot on about who can be trusted. In fact it can even be difficult to trust another Christian with their information! How do I know that they're not trying to sway me into some other sect/denomination or something like Jehovah's Witnesses. No thanks! The Christian religion is based on stuff that is hard to prove and disprove because so many of the ancient texts have lost their true messages through translations, man's selfish influences, and simple loss of the documents themselves. Yeah, it's easy to point out all kinds of parallels between Christianity and other religions, but most people (myself included up until a few years ago) never bothered to check them out or are too ignorant to care. But back to the trust point. It's true. I'm ready to study the heck out of the way Christianity mirrors so many other religions in my pursuit of the truth, but I just feel like no matter what I read, the information is going to be biased, misleading, and not trustworthy.

[synergy777]

church from circe, like i said before, none of us know the answers, we must all be humble and search dilligently, its like an invetsigation, x file style, lol.

[bigus_dickus]

I just looked up 'church' in the Oxford Dictionary and sure enough it says that the word 'church' comes from Circe! Fascinating!

church (http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=church&searchmode=none)
O.E. cirice "church," from W.Gmc. *kirika, from Gk. kyriake (oikia) "Lord's (house)," from kyrios "ruler, lord." For vowel evolution, see bury. Gk. kyriakon (adj.) "of the Lord" was used of houses of Christian worship since c.300, especially in the East, though it was less common in this sense than ekklesia or basilike. An example of the direct Gk.-to-Gmc. progress of many Christian words, via the Goths; it was probably used by W.Gmc. people in their pre-Christian period. Also picked up by Slavic, via Gmc. (cf. O.Slav. criky, Rus. cerkov). Romance and Celtic languages use variants of L. ecclesia. Slang church key for "can or bottle opener" is from 1950s. Church-mouse, proverbial in many languages for its poverty, is 1731 in Eng.


in the greek bible, there is no word that resembles kirk-. in fact there are only 2 words in the whole greek language that start from kirk. kirk (circ) is the root of circle, or something periodic or regular. and it comes from a kind of hawk that makes perfect circles in the sky, which is called "kirkinezi".

in the greek script, the church is described as "κύρια εκκλησία" (kiria ekklesia) which means a regular assembly of people.

κύρια also means "main" and κύριος (male) means "lord". for example the greek word for Sunday is Κυριακή (Kiriaki), which means the "day of the lord" and not the day of the sun as you english people believe.

needless to say that greek speaking people perceive the bible quite differently from english speaking people. this is not so much due to translations word for word, but because some of the meanings can't be accurately conveyed from one language to another. i don't think there is a practical way to resolve this...

[titurel]

As far as I understand, one doesn't need to belong to any organised religion to be Christian. My own personal view is that the world is run by Satanic forces, Satanism, etc., those who hate the Bible and that indicates to me that there must be truth in the good book, otherwise, why would the world's elite (who also run Christian and non-Christian organised religions) hate God and the Bible so much? They hate God because they want to rule the world for themselves. I think this was the case before the flood (Atlantis). That is when fallen divine beings came down and spoiled our earth but they were incarcerated,... imprisoned and that's where they still are. They still communicate to the elite through spiritualism and throught their wierd rituals. That's what all the secret societies are for, IMO. It's also the root of the NWO agenda.

[titurel]

church (http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=church&searchmode=none)
O.E. cirice "church," from W.Gmc. *kirika, from Gk. kyriake (oikia) "Lord's (house)," from kyrios "ruler, lord." For vowel evolution, see bury. Gk. kyriakon (adj.) "of the Lord" was used of houses of Christian worship since c.300, especially in the East, though it was less common in this sense than ekklesia or basilike. An example of the direct Gk.-to-Gmc. progress of many Christian words, via the Goths; it was probably used by W.Gmc. people in their pre-Christian period. Also picked up by Slavic, via Gmc. (cf. O.Slav. criky, Rus. cerkov). Romance and Celtic languages use variants of L. ecclesia. Slang church key for "can or bottle opener" is from 1950s. Church-mouse, proverbial in many languages for its poverty, is 1731 in Eng.


in the greek bible, there is no word that resembles kirk-. in fact there are only 2 words in the whole greek language that start from kirk. kirk (circ) is the root of circle, or something periodic or regular. and it comes from a kind of hawk that makes perfect circles in the sky, which is called "kirkinezi".

in the greek script, the church is described as "κύρια εκκλησία" (kiria ekklesia) which means a regular assembly of people.

κύρια also means "main" and κύριος (male) means "lord". for example the greek word for Sunday is Κυριακή (Kiriaki), which means the "day of the lord" and not the day of the sun as you english people believe.

needless to say that greek speaking people perceive the bible quite differently from english speaking people. this is not so much due to translations word for word, but because some of the meanings can't be accurately conveyed from one language to another. i don't think there is a practical way to resolve this...
Interesting, so 'church' as we understand it today as meaning a building or temple, doesn't even exist in the Bible. It seems that Circe was known for turning men into swine. Malachi Martin said that the Vatican was managed by Satanists. It's all starting to make sense now! The Satanists have herded people into THEIR churches in order to make men like beasts. Beasts are unable to think for themselves and often follow the herd, just like in the churches run by the sorceress Circe!

[bigus_dickus]

Interesting, so 'church' as we understand it today as meaning a building or temple, doesn't even exist in the Bible. It seems that Circe was known for turning men into swine. Malachi Martin said that the Vatican was managed by Satanists. It's all starting to make sense now! The Satanists have herded people into THEIR churches in order to make men like beasts. Beasts are unable to think for themselves and often follow the herd, just like in the churches run by the sorceress Circe!

yes, but that's a common illusion you see. Kirke was never attributed with satanic forces and black magic. these are biblical notions, they didn't exist back then, it's all part of popular mythology. it is too easy to confuse people with this stuff, because people are generally ignorant and so are some of those researchers, or at least they are mislead purposely or not, i don't know.

a word for temple in the greek texts is "ναός" (naos). for example "το σώμα είναι ο ναός της ψυχής" = the body is the soul's temple.

church has been erroneously evolved to distinguish a certain type of building, it really means "assembly of people", or gathering. a gathering which is regular (kiria) and happens every sunday (kiriaki)...

[titurel]

yes, but that's a common illusion you see. Kirke was never attributed with satanic forces and black magic. these are biblical notions, they didn't exist back then, it's all part of popular mythology. it is too easy to confuse people with this stuff, because people are generally ignorant and so are some of those researchers, or at least they are mislead purposely or not, i don't know.

a word for temple in the greek texts is "ναός" (naos). for example "το σώμα είναι ο ναός της ψυχής" = the body is the soul's temple.

church has been erroneously evolved to distinguish a certain type of building, it really means "assembly of people", or gathering. a gathering which is regular (kiria) and happens every sunday (kiriaki)...
But it's the Satanic elite that created organised religion that gets people to congregate in their buildings made of stone, which are called 'churches'. The NT says God does not even abide in a building made of stone. What we have here is pagans in wolves clothing pretending to be Christian, while they are busy tricking people to flock into their churches. Little do these people know that they are being brainwashed and mind controlled and that's exactly what sorcery is all about... the manipulation of the mind. The church, IMO, is therefore Circe, the sorceress.

I also disagree with you that sorcery never existed in antiquity. I have looked at Homer and Circe is described as a sorceress. That is a very good word to use to describe the harlot that the church is! In fact, Circe was a harlot too!

[bigus_dickus]

But it's the Satanic elite that created organised religion that gets people to congregate in their buildings made of stone, which are called 'churches'. The NT says God does not even abide in a building made of stone. What we have here is pagans in wolves clothing pretending to be Christian, while they are busy tricking people to flock into their churches. Little do these people know that they are being brainwashed and mind controlled and that's exactly what sorcery is all about... the manipulation of the mind. The church, IMO, is therefore Circe, the sorceress.

i agree with you, i am always pointing out that it is wrong to blame systems, religions, beliefs and whatever without examining our own selves. people are people anywhere, today you have these "holy" new agers who claim to love unconditionally and to be doing good. quite simply, some of these guys are liars!

i have found videos preaching about the LOA, describing personal experiences.. which were copies of other people's experience. all they want is to get their face on youtube and fans and of course what else.. money.

there are trillions of things and people to blame in this world, you make a choice. but i ask you, do you really need to blame?

I also disagree with you that sorcery never existed in antiquity. I have looked at Homer and Circe is described as a sorceress. That is a very good word to use to describe the harlot that the church is! In fact, Circe was a harlot too!

you must have misunderstood me, i meant that there is no link of Kirke the witch, with the biblical Satan. there were other gods, some malevolent, some benevolent, most both for that reason.

[synergy777]

churches are no different to man made idols, does the church prevent wicked corrupt priests from coming in? look at churches do they look positive to you? they have gothic architecture, gargoyles, masonic symbolism and a graveyard next to them. look i like domes temples etc, but even i admit they have masonic/nwo symbolism, the star/crescent, is not islamic, its ottoman. sacred geometry, read about it. domes are whats needed, even then they should centres of learning, help/guidance, not pious repetition/money taking.

if the creator is beyond human limitation, and has left you with a spirit, logic.

[bigus_dickus]

churches are no different to man made idols, does the church prevent wicked corrupt priests from coming in? look at churches do they look positive to you? they have gothic architecture, gargoyles, masonic symbolism and a graveyard next to them. look i like domes temples etc, but even i admit they have masonic/nwo symbolism, the star/crescent, is not islamic, its ottoman. sacred geometry, read about it. domes are whats needed, even then they should centres of learning, help/guidance, not pious repetition/money taking.

well, orthodox churches are domes.. and they don't have gargoules and freaky stuff like that.

http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/pic/PTGPOD/468388~Greek-Church-Santorini-Greece-Posters.jpg

[titurel]

you must have misunderstood me, i meant that there is no link of Kirke the witch, with the biblical Satan. there were other gods, some malevolent, some benevolent, most both for that reason.
I agree with you that there's no link between Satan and Circe, I never said there was a direct link,, but there is definitely a link between Circe, the witch of antiquity, and the Scarlet Harlot that's described in Revelation. In fact, Homer's Circe has the same attributes as the Mystery Woman described in Revelation, who derives her power from Satan. In other words, Circe of antiquity and the Church both perform the same sorcery and functions!

Churches are actually pagan temples prolly derived from ancient Babylon. I don't think it's a coincidence that Church = Circe/circle because pagan temples were often circular. The Templar Church in the City of London, where all the lawyers are congrigated is circular. The word "circus" also derives from Circe, and what do we find in a circus? Beasts! It's no coincidence that the big circuses are run by Masons also! It's funny how many Luciferian Masons are also obsessed with dressing up as clowns! It gets more interesting!

[titurel]

churches are no different to man made idols, does the church prevent wicked corrupt priests from coming in? look at churches do they look positive to you? they have gothic architecture, gargoyles, masonic symbolism and a graveyard next to them. look i like domes temples etc, but even i admit they have masonic/nwo symbolism, the star/crescent, is not islamic, its ottoman. sacred geometry, read about it. domes are whats needed, even then they should centres of learning, help/guidance, not pious repetition/money taking.

if the creator is beyond human limitation, and has left you with a spirit, logic.
It satisfies me that the Church is Circe... churches have always given me bad vibes. Churches are sorcery and witchcraft on a monumental scale!

[synergy777]

churches like the orthodox do have good vibes, i always loved that white church/greek hillside, azure seas. although being strict the cross, the shape should not be used, as they are derived from solar/cardinal points eg equinoxes/solistices.

[bigus_dickus]

I agree with you that there's no link between Satan and Circe, I never said there was a direct link,, but there is definitely a link between Circe, the witch of antiquity, and the Scarlet Harlot that's described in Revelation. In fact, Homer's Circe has the same attributes as the Mystery Woman described in Revelation, who derives her power from Satan. In other words, Circe of antiquity and the Church both perform the same sorcery and functions!

Churches are actually pagan temples prolly derived from ancient Babylon. I don't think it's a coincidence that Church = Circe/circle because pagan temples were often circular. The Templar Church in the City of London, where all the lawyers are congrigated is circular. The word "circus" also derives from Circe, and what do we find in a circus? Beasts! It's no coincidence that the big circuses are run by Masons also! It's funny how many Luciferian Masons are also obsessed with dressing up as clowns! It gets more interesting!

well, that's some speculative thinking right there. i can't say you are wrong, or right, all i can say is that it's all beliefs and speculation that derives from them. judging by belief is not a proper way to observe things, in my opinion.

[chicken_little]

When you guys refer to a church, are you talking about the physical building itself? There's a lot of church buildings that don't have all of the symbolic crap covering them. The church I went to for years is an old grocery store that was abandoned until it was purchased and converted into a great place for worship and fellowship.

[titurel]

well, that's some speculative thinking right there. i can't say you are wrong, or right, all i can say is that it's all beliefs and speculation that derives from them. judging by belief is not a proper way to observe things, in my opinion.
I'm not sure what you're referring to but it's a fact that there is definitely a link between Circe, the witch of antiquity, and the Scarlet Harlot that's described in Revelation, who derives her power from Satan. It's also a fact that pagan temples were circular and that the Templar Church, to name an example, is also circular. It's also a fact that Masons are linked with the Circus and that many Masons do dress up as clowns. I've got pictures if you're interested...

[bigus_dickus]

I'm not sure what you're referring to but it's a fact that there is definitely a link between Circe, the witch of antiquity, and the Scarlet Harlot that's described in Revelation, who derives her power from Satan. It's also a fact that pagan temples were circular and that the Templar Church, to name an example, is also circular. It's also a fact that Masons are linked with the Circus and that many Masons do dress up as clowns. I've got pictures if you're interested...

lol.. i know what you are talking about, but i don't know if the links you are making are correct. i just don't know.. they could be.

[titurel]

churches like the orthodox do have good vibes, i always loved that white church/greek hillside, azure seas. although being strict the cross, the shape should not be used, as they are derived from solar/cardinal points eg equinoxes/solistices.
But these churches you speak of... nothing anything to do with the NWO agenda conspiracy is taught inside of them. They do not enlighten the flock about the Reptilian agenda. It's because these buildings were built by reptilian dish-lickers. Find me a nice church that reveals all the important stuff about the NWO agenda in fine detail. I can't find a single one... they all serve up pap to keep the flock in a trance, while the NWO architects are getting away with it. Of course, the world's biggest religion and fastest growing one, is the religion of money. Cash is the new god and haven't many of the chuches prostituted themselves like a Harlot for that! The churches practise sorcery on a massive scale that defies the imagination. So does money!!! :eek:

[titurel]

lol.. i know what you are talking about, but i don't know if the links you are making are correct. i just don't know.. they could be.
Which one would you like clarification on? I can try and research or find some more evidence. If it's about the Masons dressing up as clowns, I have many photos of Masons in clowns clobber, for example... let me know! They belong to the Shriners... a very wierd group who go secretively about in those crimson Arab hats.

[synergy777]

in the age of church development it was masons who had the knowledge to create the architecture eg arches etc that the churches used. anyone watch dimbley, on how we made britain on sundays. the churches were made by the normans etc.

[titurel]

some people say that the Cathedrals in France look magnificent and beautiful. They may be pleasing to look at, and many of them were built by the Masons' forerunners, the Knights Templar, but they were built as Trojan Horses. They were thought up, not on the Bible, but on the priniciple that they could get the masses to create the NWO by beguiling them. The Church is a mighty sorceress, and like a seducer, she will use her charms and her beautiful external looks to bewitch and mesmerise those that pass in between her upright marble columns and into the area under the big tit. Big domes do look nice but looks can deceive! It's all about how they derive energy. They are like vampyres sucking the lifeforce out of a large farm of people, whom they regard as no more as beasts that should be milked and fleeced. If there are reptilians, they must have a leader. IMO, there are also angels and their leader is God the all powerful.

[king]

The World would be much better without any religion.


really?
you mean like "everything goes" mentality:

http://www.cob.tamucc.edu/waheed/Teaching%20Aids/Face%20piercing%20and%20tatoo.jpg


You know before man invented religion maybe he was more peacefull, loving and enlightened back then.

maybe in the very beginning he invented the religion to become more loving, peaceful and enlightened, but PTBs have corrupted it?

has that thought even occurred to you?

and what about religion of those who believe in reptilians?
or those who believe in UFO.s?
or those who believe that killing is good for business?
or those who believe in science as god?

organized religion and personal religion is not the same thing. someone can have his own religion, his own beliefs but he may have no desire to impose it on others.
is that bad?

Look if they spent more time sorting out the problems on earth instead of preaching pompous lies in temples, churches and synogogues.


absolutely true, but this is again organized religion, one that has been usurped, one that is used against the people.
religion nowadays is just another form of mind control.
but is it all bad as you see it?
what about the religion that teaches you common sense like not to kill, not to steal, not to cheat?
better than "anything goes" nihilistic religion that PTBs are imposing on people nowadays.


Then they tell us where imperfect and we can become perfect through their teachings( like they believe themselves to be more perfect and closer to God)

yes, this is pure B.S. and many are buying it because they are afraid to face the truth so they are paying their religious leader to tell them that everything is going to be
fine and that their ass will be saved. so, they get the shaft, just like as those who give their power to politicians, and politics is yet another religion.

Nowadays science is the religion #1, and organized religion is not even number 2.


Christianity is the same as the Freemasonic philosophy, where imperfect join us to become perfect blah blah infinitum.( if it's not the pure race crap it's the pure spiritual crap they'll get you with)

there are sure similarities there that make one wonder.

I know where seanx is coming from on this thread he's Irish, like my Grandparents, who came to England both married catholic... protestant English, they wouldn't of been able to do that in Ierland!
sounds like that some religious people were brainwashed and abused lot more than peoples of other countries.
Why otherwise there would bu such hate towards religion by you Brits and Irish?!
you really seem t have a problem with it.
i can sense the trauma that religion has left on many.
can you shed some light on this?

[baron von lotsov]

The World would be much better without any religion. You know before man invented religion maybe he was more peacefull, loving and enlightened back then.


The Humanists would love you to believe that. Humanism by the way is part of the New World Order.

Man in the old days was quite animal like, seeking to fulfil immediate desires like where the next meal came from and I expect he didn't have much time for much else. Only when he figured out it was easier to keep cows in a field than to go round hunting them did he have the time to do other things. This was the point of where civilisation started but it was still very war like as the brutish man thought it easier to go and steel someone else's cows. So after a lot of trial and error it was established better ways of living where everyone collectively was better off. Indeed Christianity was the perfect model and out did the pagan stuff that centred around the self. England was navigating the world with huge ships while in India they were still backwards.

[cheeb]

The Humanists would love you to believe that. Humanism by the way is part of the New World Order.

Man in the old days was quite animal like, seeking to fulfil immediate desires like where the next meal came from and I expect he didn't have much time for much else. Only when he figured out it was easier to keep cows in a field than to go round hunting them did he have the time to do other things. This was the point of where civilisation started but it was still very war like as the brutish man thought it easier to go and steel someone else's cows. So after a lot of trial and error it was established better ways of living where everyone collectively was better off. Indeed Christianity was the perfect model and out did the pagan stuff that centred around the self. England was navigating the world with huge ships while in India they were still backwards.

How do you know that Baron,
Have you studied Anthropology,
As well as psychiatry,
freaky women,
and concealment of ones person in bushes,

That was one hell of a school you went to.

POE

pTTp

[mk72]

The unfair stereotyping of Christians and non-Christians in this thread is upsetting and disappointing.

I agree. I'm not a christian but I have never read a thread where synergy has tried to push his views on others, his never been aggresive in his viewpoints. I think the more open minded christians can be the better - the expansion of consciousness applies to every human being including christians. The proficies of the Essenes, applicable to this age, are right up there with the Mayan, Tibetan and Indian American and I am not talking about revelations. They talk about us, this generation, the "people who walk between worlds".

[baron von lotsov]

and concealment of ones person in bushes,
pTTp

You have been listening to bullshit by certain people who try and put me down for my attacking them due to their support for the NWO. Lying is how desperate they have become. Are you asking for my disdain as well because you are doing a pretty good job of pissing me off with your inane stupidity?

[cheeb]

Racism'
Mysogony'
Holocaust denail'
Empire ness,
Homophobia,

C'mon Baron,

You are far too clever for that,
agent provecteur, trying to get a reaction,
from people who know no better,
Old Sport,

I myself tire of your inanities, starbuck

Howard Stern you ain't

POE

pTTp

[baron von lotsov]

How do you know that Baron,
Have you studied Anthropology,
As well as psychiatry,
freaky women,
and concealment of ones person in bushes,

That was one hell of a school you went to.

POE

pTTp

Racism'
Mysogony'
Holocaust denail'
Empire ness,
Homophobia,

C'mon Baron,

You are far too clever for that,
agent provecteur, trying to get a reaction,
from people who know no better,
Old Sport,

I myself tire of your inanities, starbuck

Howard Stern you ain't

POE

pTTp

What you speak of is PC bollox invented by the elite to control the way we think. I didn't fall for it.

[cheeb]

well Baron, it's been loveley talking to you ,

But some of us have got to get up in the morning,

Do some work and all that''

I suppose it doesn't matter what time you turn up at the dole office,
as long as you get ther within the day,

Some of us have to be a bit more punctual,

You might find this out if you ever get a job,

have a nice lie in,

I wish I could

best wishes

POe

PttP

[james777]

So what would the world be like without any religion?

Probally a lot like today where we have so many religions there may as well not be any.

The Bible encourages people to be good to each other, not to sin (do bad things) and also gives a medical and legal framework on how to live as a community on earth.

Are you saying that humans don't sin? That we never do bad things?

Christianity seeks to address 'sin' ie bad things that we do.

Try to take a more pragamatic approach ES.

good points here..


The unfair stereotyping of Christians and non-Christians in this thread is upsetting and disappointing.

Also a good point

As far as I understand, one doesn't need to belong to any organised religion to be Christian. My own personal view is that the world is run by Satanic forces, Satanism, etc., those who hate the Bible and that indicates to me that there must be truth in the good book, otherwise, why would the world's elite (who also run Christian and non-Christian organised religions) hate God and the Bible so much? They hate God because they want to rule the world for themselves. I think this was the case before the flood (Atlantis). That is when fallen divine beings came down and spoiled our earth but they were incarcerated,... imprisoned and that's where they still are. They still communicate to the elite through spiritualism and throught their wierd rituals. That's what all the secret societies are for, IMO. It's also the root of the NWO agenda.

Nicely said

[neutron flux]

How can you tell? Well if someone follows the morals as set out in the Bible then they can be regarded as genuine.


That just made me think of this:

"Many people say that they do not understand the moral side of your teaching," said one of us. "And others say that your teaching has no morality at all."

"Of course not," said G. "People are very fond of talking about morality. But morality is merely self-suggestion. What is necessary is conscience. We do not teach morality. We teach how to find conscience. People are not pleased when we say this. They say that we have no love. Simply because we do not encourage weakness and hypocrisy but, on the contrary, take off all masks. He who desires the truth will not speak of love or of Christianity because he knows how far he is from these. Christian teaching is for Christians. And Christians are those who live, that is, who do everything, according to Christ's precepts. Can they who talk of love and morality live according to Christ's precepts? Of course they cannot; but there will always be talk of this kind, there will always be people to whom words are more precious than anything else. But this is a true sign! He who speaks like this is an empty man; it is not worth while wasting time on him.

[cheeb]

Interesting,
I was talking to a woman at work ,the other day'
she has no interest in my stuff'
But, she did say:
It's funny how you do project what you are like onto other people',
You tend to think, people are the same as you,
Honest, trustworthy'
They might not be like that at all!

She was right, I suppose'
You do tend to see others In a way you perceive yourself,

It probably says more about you'
If you see crooks, theives and liars everywhere.
than it says about them.

POE

pTTp