I bought George Orwells "Nineteen Eighty-Four"

[steevo]

I bought George Orwells "Nineteen Eighty-Four" the other day from Waterstones, the paperback version for £8.99.
I compared it to other similar paperbacks in the shop and it was more expensive for some reason. I wonder if the novel is in the public domain ?If so, it should be cheaper.

Also, the book had a sticker on it which said something like "if you buy this book, you will get double reward points". Maybe they want to keep records of what literature people are buying ? I dont have a rewards card btw.

Anyway, the main reason that I am posting this thread is that there is an introduction in the start of the book by a fellar called Ben Pimlott, who just about totally slags off the book:confused::eek: Why would that be ? :cool:

I ASSUME that the novel itself has not been edited in any way, and THAT IS WHY they HAD TO put that terrible introduction in at the front of it. How would I even know if the PTB have changed the novel (I have never read it before) ?

Anyway, you can find the introduction here (http://www.theorwellprize.co.uk/the-award/works/benpimlott1.aspx), and it almost put me off reading the book after I had read MOST of the Introduction, I didnt read it all cos it was obviously put there to put you off reading the novel itself.

Let me know what you think.

[sorath]

Read this book. It has been one of my favourites for some years now. I brought mine from waterstones about 4 years ago and it was on offer. 2 for 1 deal, so I also got Down and out in Paris and London, which is my favourite book by Eric Blair.

[pinkgeranium]

Its a good book.

I studied it for CSE english about 23 years ago...................we also studied Animal farm............. which is aso a very good book.

I think one of the newspapers is giving it away free tomorrow.......

I heard it advertised on the radio and was really surprised................. But i did not catch which paper it was.

[truth_junkie]

The man who wrote that introduction is a fucking idiot. 1984 is one of the most important books ever written - don't let anyone stop you from reading it.
Also recommended:
Animal Farm
Brave New World
Brave New World Revisited

[decode reality]

Steevo....what is PTB? sorry, I don't do abbreviations very well:D

[steevo]

Steevo....what is PTB? sorry, I don't do abbreviations very well:D

The "Power That Be".

[steevo]

Thanks for your comments. I also was gonna buy Animal Farm but taht was very expensive too for such a thin book. Obviously they dont want us reading that sort of thing :cool:

[atticus_finch]

I also was gonna buy Animal Farm but taht was very expensive too for such a thin book. Obviously they dont want us reading that sort of thing :cool:

Any secondhand bookstores near you?

[sorath]

Thanks for your comments. I also was gonna buy Animal Farm but taht was very expensive too for such a thin book. Obviously they dont want us reading that sort of thing :cool:

What about a trade?

[steevo]

Any secondhand bookstores near you?

I will look into that. Thanks. I have spent a small fortune on books recently.

[steevo]

Its a good book.

I studied it for CSE english about 23 years ago...................we also studied Animal farm............. which is aso a very good book.

I think one of the newspapers is giving it away free tomorrow.......

I heard it advertised on the radio and was really surprised................. But i did not catch which paper it was.

That will be great if I can get it free :)

[steevo]

Any secondhand bookstores near you?

Alot of books end up in the charity shops these days so i sometimes go there.

[lumukanda]

the guy who wrote that intro is a fucking idiot.
1984 is a seriously brilliant novel, i was lucky enough to do it at school and still have that copy. it has a bleakness about it which just sucks you in, it is really well written without being boring or overbearing.
enjoy it steevo, it's worth every cent!

[steevo]

the guy who wrote that intro is a fucking idiot.
1984 is a seriously brilliant novel, i was lucky enough to do it at school and still have that copy. it has a bleakness about it which just sucks you in, it is really well written without being boring or overbearing.
enjoy it steevo, it's worth every cent!

Everyone who I have spoken to who has read that book has said something similar to me.

I have seen the movie btw and that is very good.

[stinky catz]

Just download the book. I listened to Animal Farm and 1984 on Audio. Its such a good book.

I also watched Nineteen-Eighty Four (the movie, made in 1984). Its not as good as the book. The book is deeper and more detailed.

I say rip the introduction pages out, and read the book again.

Its amazing that he wrote that in the 1950's and look where we are today...

[steevo]

Just download the book. I listened to Animal Farm and 1984 on Audio. Its such a good book.

I also watched Nineteen-Eighty Four (the movie, made in 1984). Its not as good as the book. The book is deeper and more detailed.

I say rip the introduction pages out, and read the book again.

Its amazing that he wrote that in the 1950's and look where we are today...

I think it was published in 1949 and he died the following year.

Believe me, I DID feel like ripping out the intro.

I prefer (at the moment) to buy BOOKS made of paper cos it means that if anything happened, the books will be easily accessaible without electricity or a computer or whatever.

[sorath]

Its amazing that he wrote that in the 1950's and look where we are today...

I think it was published in 1948 and he wanted to call it 1948 but was told it was to close to the bone so changed it to 1984.

[trojan_scapegoat]

I find it really strange and suspicious that newspapers would be giving it away free and Waterstones giving double reward points for buying it.

[steevo]

I think it was published in 1948 and he wanted to call it 1948 but was told it was to close to the bone so changed it to 1984.

After the "Introduction" there is "A Note on the Text" by someone called Peter Davison who says that the book was originally gonna be called "1980", but due to the length of time it took to write the book (mainly due to "illness"), he renamed it "1982" and eventually "1984". Not sure how true that is but Peter Davison didnt seem to have any agenda when writing it (unlike Ben Pimlott).

[particlezen]

you should rip out the introduction and send it back to the publisher!

[orion_morris]

The introduction isnt saying it is a bad book. Did you read the whole introduction? It is really good near the end! I just read the link and to begin with I was a little upset but I still think that towards the end he touched on soem key points. Either way, the book is very interesting and important. The equal counterpart to 1984 is A Brave New World by Aldous Huxley

[steevo]

The introduction isnt saying it is a bad book. Did you read the whole introduction? It is really good near the end! I just read the link and to begin with I was a little upset but I still think that towards the end he touched on soem key points. Either way, the book is very interesting and important. The equal counterpart to 1984 is A Brave New World by Aldous Huxley

I read most of it and what he said was terrible. Yes I'm aware he says some bits that are APPARENTLY nice but the bad bits totally outweigh the "good" bits. And his words destroy the novel....IF YOU BELIEVE THEM.
Anyway, please tell me WHY you think he wrote those words that slag of the novel and virtually discredit the author ?

[bobhodge]

I bought George Orwells "Nineteen Eighty-Four" the other day from Waterstones, the paperback version for £8.99.
I compared it to other similar paperbacks in the shop and it was more expensive for some reason. I wonder if the novel is in the public domain ?If so, it should be cheaper.

Also, the book had a sticker on it which said something like "if you buy this book, you will get double reward points". Maybe they want to keep records of what literature people are buying ? I dont have a rewards card btw.

Anyway, the main reason that I am posting this thread is that there is an introduction in the start of the book by a fellar called Ben Pimlott, who just about totally slags off the book:confused::eek: Why would that be ? :cool:

I ASSUME that the novel itself has not been edited in any way, and THAT IS WHY they HAD TO put that terrible introduction in at the front of it. How would I even know if the PTB have changed the novel (I have never read it before) ?

Anyway, you can find the introduction here (http://www.theorwellprize.co.uk/the-award/works/benpimlott1.aspx), and it almost put me off reading the book after I had read MOST of the Introduction, I didnt read it all cos it was obviously put there to put you off reading the novel itself.

Let me know what you think.

if you liked 1984, you may want to read Noddy goes to Toyland. It is the disturbing harrowing tale of a little wooden man called Noddy and the vile depraved criminal underworld of Toyland. Do not read on a full stomach.

[dean_bpm]

£8.99? Waterstones are robbing bastards. Even in WH Smith it is only a fiver.

[orion_morris]

I am sorry steveo but I dont think that you understood the article because he does a wonderful job at the end explaining what he meant durign the introduction. I have read the book and after reading the introduction I would have to say that it really just enhanced my understanding of the novel and its importence. At first I was pretty upset with the piece because it does take on a different approach in the begening but by the end it is really a beautiful piece of writing. It wouldnt have been the intro if it wasnt.

[atticus_finch]

I read most of it and what he said was terrible. Yes I'm aware he says some bits that are APPARENTLY nice but the bad bits totally outweigh the "good" bits. And his words destroy the novel....IF YOU BELIEVE THEM.
Anyway, please tell me WHY you think he wrote those words that slag of the novel and virtually discredit the author ?

I have read the book twice but never even noticed (or bothered with) the introduction, I am not entirely sure if my copy has this. I am intrigued now...

[orion_morris]

Different prints have different intros and epilogues... I hadnt read that particular one before.


I have read the book twice but never even noticed (or bothered with) the introduction, I am not entirely sure if my copy has this. I am intrigued now...

[steevo]

I am sorry steveo but I dont think that you understood the article because he does a wonderful job at the end explaining what he meant durign the introduction. I have read the book and after reading the introduction I would have to say that it really just enhanced my understanding of the novel and its importence. At first I was pretty upset with the piece because it does take on a different approach in the begening but by the end it is really a beautiful piece of writing. It wouldnt have been the intro if it wasnt.

Maybe you are right orion. It is certainly cleverly written, and it has to be if it is used as the intro to the novel itself.

[atticus_finch]

Different prints have different intros and epilogues... I hadnt read that particular one before.

My copy is published by Penguin so I assumed it would the same one.. will have to locate it now.

[miranda]

No, I think this introduction stinks.

I've read and reread 1984, and think it's one of the best (if not the best) warning we've got.

I was wondering how they'd deal with it ...

This critic states '...the grotesque world Orwell portrays is imaginary.'

There's a guy who either has a very dry, satirical sense of humour, or has been living down a hole for the past ten years or so ...

The critic finishes by saying, "(1984's) message is a permanent one: 'erroneous though is the stuff of freedom.' "

Er ... no. Free thought is the stuff of freedom. 'Erroneous thought' is a totalitarian-Govt-defined concept.

'Erroneous thought is the stuff of freedom' is an ambiguous sentence if ever I heard one.

1984 is a brilliant novel, on so many levels. One major part of it - unmentioned in this introduction-cum-assasination - is the way humanity fuels and feed Big Brother: it couldn't happen without us.

Another major, huge, immense, raison d'etre, part of the novel is the warning in it. Neither of which are mentioned in this so-called intro. I've never seen a classic be introduced in such a derogatory fashion.

Well spotted, Steevo ... Everyone should read 1984. It is the most brilliant exposition of our 'future' I've read. And it's coming true, every day.

'War is Peace.
Slavery is Freedom.
Ignorance is Strength.'

It's the American Govt's bloody motto ...(!)

[dreamweaver]

I bought George Orwells "Nineteen Eighty-Four" the other day from Waterstones, the paperback version for £8.99.
I compared it to other similar paperbacks in the shop and it was more expensive for some reason. I wonder if the novel is in the public domain ?If so, it should be cheaper.

Also, the book had a sticker on it which said something like "if you buy this book, you will get double reward points". Maybe they want to keep records of what literature people are buying ? I dont have a rewards card btw.

Anyway, the main reason that I am posting this thread is that there is an introduction in the start of the book by a fellar called Ben Pimlott, who just about totally slags off the book:confused::eek: Why would that be ? :cool:

I ASSUME that the novel itself has not been edited in any way, and THAT IS WHY they HAD TO put that terrible introduction in at the front of it. How would I even know if the PTB have changed the novel (I have never read it before) ?

Anyway, you can find the introduction here (http://www.theorwellprize.co.uk/the-award/works/benpimlott1.aspx), and it almost put me off reading the book after I had read MOST of the Introduction, I didnt read it all cos it was obviously put there to put you off reading the novel itself.

Let me know what you think.

You can indeed read 1984 online for free at http://www.george-orwell.org/1984 :cool:

As far as I can tell, it's still the same book.

Ben Pimlott was a leading Fabian, which may help you understand why that introduction is so awful.

Furthermore the Orwell Prize (as linked to in your post) now has links to Common Purpose, ironically enough.

[steevo]

Furthermore the Orwell Prize (as linked to in your post) now has links to Common Purpose, ironically enough.

Youre right! Check out this link (http://www.theorwellprize.co.uk/the-award/who.aspx?org=mst)

[shenoma]

He was part of their agenda. Why else has the term 'big brother' been so popular? How he painted the death of that society was lame at best. It was already on its deathbed, but to act like it was going to last forever was just a depressed man's lone view on the world. I don't like that book, zero hope, and not really realistic at all.

[miranda]

If he was part of their agenda, why not write a book telling us how wonderful Big Brother was going to be? Why give us the best warning we've ever had?

[largejack]

I bought George Orwells "Nineteen Eighty-Four" the other day from Waterstones, the paperback version for £8.99.
I compared it to other similar paperbacks in the shop and it was more expensive for some reason. I wonder if the novel is in the public domain ?If so, it should be cheaper.

Also, the book had a sticker on it which said something like "if you buy this book, you will get double reward points". Maybe they want to keep records of what literature people are buying ? I dont have a rewards card btw.

Anyway, the main reason that I am posting this thread is that there is an introduction in the start of the book by a fellar called Ben Pimlott, who just about totally slags off the book:confused::eek: Why would that be ? :cool:

I ASSUME that the novel itself has not been edited in any way, and THAT IS WHY they HAD TO put that terrible introduction in at the front of it. How would I even know if the PTB have changed the novel (I have never read it before) ?

Anyway, you can find the introduction here (http://www.theorwellprize.co.uk/the-award/works/benpimlott1.aspx), and it almost put me off reading the book after I had read MOST of the Introduction, I didnt read it all cos it was obviously put there to put you off reading the novel itself.

Let me know what you think.

You should have got it from the library, but good choice, totally depressing but is exactly what's happening today.

[alzee]

For those who want to read the book without paying and can deal with reading it on your pc, check out the following website:

http://truly-free.org/

[shenoma]

It was not a warning but a firm powerful mind set about being depress because there is no hope. Instead of finding some kind of happiness no matter what happens to you in whatever type of society. Look out how unhappy most conspiracy people are, I know was for way to long.

If he was part of their agenda, why not write a book telling us how wonderful Big Brother was going to be? Why give us the best warning we've ever had?

[miranda]

Shenoma - you could say the same thing about David Icke.

You have every right to think what you like about 1984, but it's your opinion.

And as for being unhappy - well, an ostrich is pretty happy, head in the sand, rear end a target ...

You don't know why Orwell wrote 1984. Have you read anything else he wrote? He was a pretty passionate socialist, at a time when a lot of his 'class' thought the working class were less than human ...

If you want to trap people, you tell 'em everything's wonderful. You don't paint a marvellously written picture (as it were!) of every horror that's about to happen.

Example: If you want people to die on a ship you know is going to be sink, you don't tell 'em the ship's going to sink. And you don't tell 'em just how it's going to happen. You tell them the ship is seaworthy; it's marvellous; relax, people, you don't need those nasty lifejackets ...

Orwell provided the info. How you take it isn't his fault ... that's up to you. Don't shoot the messenger ...

If you don't see what's happening, you're far more likely to be trapped in it, than if you recognise what's going on.

[shenoma]

It was a fictional book, the same case can be made for the Vril book has well. It was written in 1871, at least it gave you an idea of what to do unlike 1984, by the way he reversed the number he wrote it in, seems kind of like a mind trick to me. What is the point in knowing, if you don't know how to fix the problem?

At least the main character had a job, food, and roof over his head. Its a lot more then what some people have in this world. Anyways, you skip over my point, of that society was coming apart at the seems, it was failing, but in the book he wanted you to believe it was going to last a thousand years, but it wasn't. A thousand year dream (cough cough third Reich dream) weren't the Nazis (National Socialism) socialist. Maybe he was just mad they lost the war and wanted revenged on people?

It was a depressing book, it was made to make people feel bad and completely hopeless. The main character was a weak stupid little man that didn't achieve shit in his life. Was the book really made has a warning or more of template for people to follow a weakling of man?



Shenoma - you could say the same thing about David Icke.

You have every right to think what you like about 1984, but it's your opinion.

And as for being unhappy - well, an ostrich is pretty happy, head in the sand, rear end a target ...

You don't know why Orwell wrote 1984. Have you read anything else he wrote? He was a pretty passionate socialist, at a time when a lot of his 'class' thought the working class were less than human ...

If you want to trap people, you tell 'em everything's wonderful. You don't paint a marvellously written picture (as it were!) of every horror that's about to happen.

Example: If you want people to die on a ship you know is going to be sink, you don't tell 'em the ship's going to sink. And you don't tell 'em just how it's going to happen. You tell them the ship is seaworthy; it's marvellous; relax, people, you don't need those nasty lifejackets ...

Orwell provided the info. How you take it isn't his fault ... that's up to you.

If you don't see what's happening, you're far more likely to be trapped in it, than if you recognise what's going on.

[bobhodge]

eric blair was an intelligence operative posing as journalist. he was a KINGS scholar, was taught by ALDOUS HUXLEY and went to ETON. can you be anymore establishment entrenched?

[steevo]

It was a fictional book, the same case can be made for the Vril book has well. It was written in 1871, at least it gave you an idea of what to do unlike 1984, by the way he reversed the number he wrote it in, seems kind of like a mind trick to me. What is the point in knowing, if you don't know how to fix the problem?

At least the main character had a job, food, and roof over his head. Its a lot more then what some people have in this world. Anyways, you skip over my point, of that society was coming apart at the seems, it was failing, but in the book he wanted you to believe it was going to last a thousand years, but it wasn't. A thousand year dream (cough cough third Reich dream) weren't the Nazis (National Socialism) socialist. Maybe he was just mad they lost the war and wanted revenged on people?

It was a depressing book, it was made to make people feel bad and completely hopeless. The main character was a weak stupid little man that didn't achieve shit in his life. Was the book really made has a warning or more of template for people to follow a weakling of man?



I think that "1984" gives a glimpse into how the PTB manipulate us into accepting lies as being the truth. And also, the book reflects almost EXACTLY how our society is right now. If EVERYONE had seen the movie or read the book, they would become aware of how they are being, and have been manipulated everyday, and how it leads to a total loss of freedom. The book DOES make people AWARE by explaining HOW it's done and why. They want ABSOLUTE OBEDIENCE. The book would have been better if it had a happy ending. But maybe if it had a happy ending, then we may become complacent ? Either way, it's the INFORMATION that counts, and how we react to it. It's up to us to somehow initate a shift in conciousness so that people are not fearful of doing what they feel is right. It seems that fear is the MAIN obstacle.

[miranda]

Well said, Steevo.

Bobhodge - yes - Icke made that point too. Only an insider could have known what Orwell knew. Doesn't mean he couldn't have switched sides ...

Shenoma, what is your point? Orwell can't tell you what to think or to feel. Only you can do that. Imagine if 1984 hadn't been written. We'd just be that bit more in the dark about the consequences of a totalitarian Govt. And yes - I think 'they' are aiming for a society that will last forever. As every totalitarian Govt has. The 'society' in 1984 was hardly 'coming apart at the seams.'

Why blame Orwell for pointing it out??? Or for not telling you what to do?! What you do is up to you, not George Orwell ... Think for yourself. It's a BOOK!!! What do you think it's going to do? Physically force you to obey a totalitarian Govt it is specifically warning you against?! Maybe you should read it again? and see just how brilliantly written it is. I think you've missed the point of it.

And why on Earth say, 'At least the main character had a job, food and a roof over his head. It's a lot more than what some people have in this world.' (sic). As all the above were provided by the totalitarian Govt, it's hardly pertinent to your point. And actually, if you'd read it properly - the 'main character' was hungry a lot of the time, and his mother and baby sister starved to death. The 'roof over his head' was a dump, he was constantly spied on by the telescreen, and he drank cheap gin to make his life even slightly bearable.

The warning's very real. Far more real than any supposed 'propaganda' ...

If anyone's 'skipped over' a point, it's you, hoppity-skipping over the question: why warn, so brilliantly, and thus forearm, the very people you're supposed to be duping? There are other ways to induce acceptance of a totalitarian Govt ... and most of them involve telling you how much you need it, and how good and necessary it is. NOT about how evil ...

[shenoma]

That's the whole point, just like in the book, our own society is falling apart right in front of our eyes. We have only to decided how we are going to handle it.

Government have always had control over people's lives, it is just the way it is, why be so sad about it?

I think that "1984" gives a glimpse into how the PTB manipulate us into accepting lies as being the truth. And also, the book reflects almost EXACTLY how our society is right now. If EVERYONE had seen the movie or read the book, they would become aware of how they are being, and have been manipulated everyday, and how it leads to a total loss of freedom. The book DOES make people AWARE by explaining HOW it's done and why. They want ABSOLUTE OBEDIENCE. The book would have been better if it had a happy ending. But maybe if it had a happy ending, then we may become complacent ? Either way, it's the INFORMATION that counts, and how we react to it. It's up to us to somehow initate a shift in conciousness so that people are not fearful of doing what they feel is right. It seems that fear is the MAIN obstacle.

[miranda]

And you blame George Orwell for brainwashing??!!! Projection never fails ... :D

Governmets do NOT have control over people's lives. PEOPLE have control over people's lives!!! That's a major point in the novel - it's people who fuel and feed Big Brother. Without them, Big Brother couldn't exist.

I repeat: society was NOT falling apart in the novel. It was rigidly controlled.

[shenoma]

I get the feeling it was, in the movie you see the ruins the people live in, they want you to believe it will last forever, but it just will not. No one single goverment ever has or will, doesn't that make you a true believer in Big Brother?

It was during a war his family starved to death, and why give a warning in such a weak leading character? The book only showed the dark side of life, it didn't show any of the light that shines through the darkest of times. When the entire human race was truly under the boot, what then? It felt me to like he purposely ignore some universal laws, like you suppress knowledge you are going to suffer, and that society did. A Brave New World was much better book, and a better warning to us all. It showed the workings, instead of a one man suffering.

The Brave New World form of government could last a thousand years, instead of 1984 one.

Well said, Steevo.

Bobhodge - yes - Icke made that point too. Only an insider could have known what Orwell knew. Doesn't mean he couldn't have switched sides ...

Shenoma, what is your point? Orwell can't tell you what to think or to feel. Only you can do that. Imagine if 1984 hadn't been written. We'd just be that bit more in the dark about the consequences of a totalitarian Govt. And yes - I think 'they' are aiming for a society that will last forever. As every totalitarian Govt has. The 'society' in 1984 was hardly 'coming apart at the seams.'

Why blame Orwell for pointing it out??? Or for not telling you what to do?! What you do is up to you, not George Orwell ... Think for yourself. It's a BOOK!!! What do you think it's going to do? Physically force you to obey a totalitarian Govt it is specifically warning you against?! Maybe you should read it again? and see just how brilliantly written it is. I think you've missed the point of it.

And why on Earth say, 'At least the main character had a job, food and a roof over his head. It's a lot more than what some people have in this world.' (sic). As all the above were provided by the totalitarian Govt, it's hardly pertinent to your point. And actually, if you'd read it properly - the 'main character' was hungry a lot of the time, and his mother and baby sister starved to death. The 'roof over his head' was a dump, he was constantly spied on by the telescreen, and he drank cheap gin to make his life even slightly bearable.

The warning's very real. Far more real than any supposed 'propaganda' ...

If anyone's 'skipped over' a point, it's you, hoppity-skipping over the question: why warn, so brilliantly, and thus forearm, the very people you're supposed to be duping? There are other ways to induce acceptance of a totalitarian Govt ... and most of them involve telling you how much you need it, and how good and necessary it is. NOT about how evil ...

[miranda]

Shenoma, I'm not arguing this any further with you. It might be different if you seemed familiar with the book itself ... or if you answered any of the points I raised ...

There was ALWAYS a war in 1984. There was a war going on throughout the novel. It was a main backdrop to the story.

I'm starting to doubt you've read the novel at all.

I don't get your point re the 'thousand year' Govt (a phrase I don't think was ever used in 1984 ). The only person banging on about that is you.

Every totalitarian Govt aims for eternal power. That's mostly why the Party aimed for totalitarian control in the first place. So it would never be defeated. The eternal nature of the power the Illuminati are aiming for is the scariest thing about it. That goes without saying. That's the point. You don't have to 'believe' they'll get it/have it, to believe it's what they're aiming for.
To blame Orwell for highlighting that is a bit like saying, 'The Titanic wouldn't have sunk if it hadn't been on water ...'

Read the novel. And stop blaming Orwell for whatever's scaring you ... NO novel showed 'the workings' better than 1984, imo. Maybe that's why you can't handle it. 'You want the truth? You can't handle the truth ...!'

Again, I feel you've misunderstood the entire novel. And it's clearly pointless, arguing this with someone who doesn't know the basics of the novel she's supposedly arguing against(!)

So, peace out. Wishing you joy, and love, and freedom ...

[pri01]

Its a good book.

I studied it for CSE english about 23 years ago...................we also studied Animal farm............. which is aso a very good book.

I think one of the newspapers is giving it away free tomorrow.......

I heard it advertised on the radio and was really surprised................. But i did not catch which paper it was.

My reading matter at school some 10 years before your reading material was, "Lord of the Flies" and "National Velvet". I was very lazy at school and at one time we were discussing I think, "To Kill a Mocking Bird". Anyway, I hadn't read any of the books that I was ordered to and when asked a direct question about what I learned I tried to be clever. I was asked. "What happened to Africa", in whatever book that character belonged to. I said, "Africa was at war", only to be told that Africa was a budgerigar. It's one of the most embarrasing moments that is glued on my mind and will be untill the day I die.

[steevo]

For people to escape the tyranny and dictatorship of "1984" they first need to UNDERSTAND how the system is used to manipulate their minds. We also need to realise who we are so that we can THEN reach our true potential. That's why I believe that we need to spread the info in leaflets etc.

Non co-operation of the system on a large scale is the answer to the 1984 scenario. Large scale non-co-operation will start on a small scale and gradually builds up until it reaches a tipping point.

[thorleyart]

That Intro is utter utter utter bullshit, written by a fucking idiot.

'For how can a story about a future that is past continue to alarm its readers?' well he thinks just because the date 1984 has passed, the book is obsolete... the book isn't about a bloody date, its about the structure of society.

He also thinks there are less totalitarian governments in the world now than there was 50 years ago...

I stopped reading after about 6 paragraphs, hes a dick.

Ignore it, read the book, it's very good.

[nowimgone]

Orwell and Huxley copied this guy's book.... Yvegeny Zamyatin's 'We'.
Its quite heavy but well worth the read. The 'winston' (D something or other) character is obsessed with mathematical precision, but alas as these stories go his programming breaks down from the influence of a female companion. Also try Ira Levin's 'This perfect Day'. I really like this book, its more friendly and hopeful and some of the characters get to escape the system only to find out it extends way beyond the established cities. Check it out!

[shenoma]

Yevgeny Zamyatin, We
http://crispytomato.net/zamyatin_we.txt

Ira Levin This perfect Day
http://www.truly-free.org/#fL


Orwell and Huxley copied this guy's book.... Yvegeny Zamyatin's 'We'.
Its quite heavy but well worth the read. The 'winston' (D something or other) character is obsessed with mathematical precision, but alas as these stories go his programming breaks down from the influence of a female companion. Also try Ira Levin's 'This perfect Day'. I really like this book, its more friendly and hopeful and some of the characters get to escape the system only to find out it extends way beyond the established cities. Check it out!

[twistedconcept]

A tremendous book. A warning from Orwell.

I'm convinced that he turned against the elite and wanted good for humanity. After initially working for them and being taught by Huxley, it wouldn't surprise me if he decided to fight against the establishment, knowing the horrors that would eventually occur.

I'd highly recommend "The Road to Wigan Pier".

[hagbard_celine]

The man who wrote that introduction is a fucking idiot. 1984 is one of the most important books ever written - don't let anyone stop you from reading it.
Also recommended:
Animal Farm
Brave New World
Brave New World Revisited

Those books are all very meaningful.

I also want to get Huxley's other book The Island... Actually I think my dad has a copy I can borrow:).

Here's another good one: The Dispossessed by Ursula LeGuin.

[baron von lotsov]

I bought George Orwells "Nineteen Eighty-Four" the other day from Waterstones, the paperback version for £8.99.
I compared it to other similar paperbacks in the shop and it was more expensive for some reason. I wonder if the novel is in the public domain ?If so, it should be cheaper.

Also, the book had a sticker on it which said something like "if you buy this book, you will get double reward points". Maybe they want to keep records of what literature people are buying ? I dont have a rewards card btw.

Anyway, the main reason that I am posting this thread is that there is an introduction in the start of the book by a fellar called Ben Pimlott, who just about totally slags off the book:confused::eek: Why would that be ? :cool:

I ASSUME that the novel itself has not been edited in any way, and THAT IS WHY they HAD TO put that terrible introduction in at the front of it. How would I even know if the PTB have changed the novel (I have never read it before) ?

Anyway, you can find the introduction here (http://www.theorwellprize.co.uk/the-award/works/benpimlott1.aspx), and it almost put me off reading the book after I had read MOST of the Introduction, I didnt read it all cos it was obviously put there to put you off reading the novel itself.

Let me know what you think.

well spotted!

Aside from his attempts at a Parliamentary career in the 1970s, not to mention his tenure as Chairman of the Fabian Society in 1993/1994, Pimlott is best remembered for his considerable body of work...

Ben Pimlott - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[hagbard_celine]

I bought George Orwells "Nineteen Eighty-Four" the other day from Waterstones, the paperback version for £8.99.
I compared it to other similar paperbacks in the shop and it was more expensive for some reason. I wonder if the novel is in the public domain ?If so, it should be cheaper.

Also, the book had a sticker on it which said something like "if you buy this book, you will get double reward points". Maybe they want to keep records of what literature people are buying ? I dont have a rewards card btw.

Anyway, the main reason that I am posting this thread is that there is an introduction in the start of the book by a fellar called Ben Pimlott, who just about totally slags off the book:confused::eek: Why would that be ? :cool:

I ASSUME that the novel itself has not been edited in any way, and THAT IS WHY they HAD TO put that terrible introduction in at the front of it. How would I even know if the PTB have changed the novel (I have never read it before) ?

Anyway, you can find the introduction here (http://www.theorwellprize.co.uk/the-award/works/benpimlott1.aspx), and it almost put me off reading the book after I had read MOST of the Introduction, I didnt read it all cos it was obviously put there to put you off reading the novel itself.

Let me know what you think.

Someone once said: "There's no such thing as a bad review." To me if some John Ruskin-ite intellectual doesn't like it I'm more likely to!:D

[red_ram]

I've never had a problem finding Nineteen Eighty-Four.

One of my favourite devices in this book and Animal Farm is the unhappy ending. It just hits you, like, Jesus, this shit is going to go on forever and it's not about to get better, which does more than anything else to get across the reality of living under those regimes.

[who elsie]

I actually studied this book at Uni - infact it was probably in 1984! I remember the (highly informed & intellectual) lecturer giving his opinion that this was not one of Orwell's best pieces of work and it had an overly negative and depressing outlook, because Orwell was writing it when in great pain & discomfort, because he was seriously ill at the time (TB, I think) and died shortly after completing it.

No! I think he knew exactly what he was doing and was just determined to complete the story before he died, as a warning to humanity of what lies ahead if we don't wake up. Just goes to show how right he was and how stupid the intellectual 'elite' were for ignoring or not fully understanding his message.

[tien an]

Hi everyone.

I'm quite surprised that no one has mentioned this, which is what I learned from the book:

(Some of these points are also comments on previous posts).

The bleak hopelessness of the book, the depressing sameness...doesn't it scare the shit out of you?

When I read this (at about 22, having just left the Army - an awakening in itself), I also read, in the same period, 'Brave New World'.
I hate comparing works of art; who am I to do so?
But since parallels have been drawn, I'd like to comment on them.

Brave New World had more of a 'story' (I don't mean 'plot') to it than 1984.
It was also much more subtle in letting you see the horror which was almost incidental to the plot. Very little of the BNW (initially) touched the Savage, whilst Winston Smith was 'up to his neck' in what was going on.
Not only did he participate in re-writing newspaper articles, but he suffered in his everyday life. He had known little else, whereas the Savage knew, and loved, where he had come from.
The brutal reality depicted in 1984 may seem more clumsy than what was offered in BNW, but I too think it was deliberate.
Look at 'Down and Out in Paris & London': He does it there too.
Why beat about the bush when you want to frighten your audience into listening to your message?

If I can draw an analogy: Michael Moore once said, on reasoning why he voted Democrat, something along the lines of...'they're both going to shaft you good, I'd just prefer to hear them whisper "I love you" in my ear while they're doing it.'
Although I enjoyed both books very much, I preferred the brutality of 1984...particularly due to the delivery.
(This has no bearing on my sexual preferences, before anyone suggests it),

I also liked the way Orwell depicted the tiny, but important joys in Smith's life; the creamy page of the book he bought to write down what was between his ears...
And therein lay his downfall.
It will be our downfall too, if we don't protect it.

And that, for me, was the most important thing I learned from 1984: You will not be able to protect or cherish much in such a society; better protect your thoughts, because they're all that's really yours.

(Love the thread, steevo, thank you. We've even got people here who are normally not too welcome. Well done!)

[coco]

I read '1984' in 1984, the year of my high school graduation. There was so much hub bub about it that year that I was curious and checked it out from my school library.

I have not read it since but I do remember my opinion at the time was that the author had a wonderful imagination. As I have lived my life since then - nothing glamormous - I can't help but wonder if Orwell was a man of amazing foresight or if he coincidentally, by accident, wrote a prophetic book that was never intended to be such.

[nowimgone]

Hey Hagbard,
I got a copy of Huxley's Island, but havnt finished reading it. Its quite an eye opener, this guy has to come to terms with a totally different way of thinking that the islanders employ. They created a community where alternative therapy rules and really works. Similar themes to some of the threads on the 'Health and Healing' forum here. And theres a talking raven in it too. 'Here and Now'. Thats all i remember.

In Brave New World, I found a similarity of the disgust with 'society' that the savage found (which made him top himself) and the feeling of disgust that comes over you when you watch scenes from the film Baraka - the beautiful trance like movements of a rainforest tribe which then cuts to a conveyor belt in a factory processing live chicks.
You couldnt get any different, and those two separate things support the same sentiment - that is - somewhere along the way we've been perverted into a totally unatural way of living which goes against the natural flow of... i dont know... the universe? An observation/realization which 'Island' semi deals with. Or i hope it does, as i havnt finished reading it yet

[electron2012]

It's odd how this book... out of a million books - was compulsory for many UK pupils. I don't think the PTB would want to change it after making it compulsory material for many children partaking in it's educational establishment.

The effect of reading this at school for me was slightly fearful, as it is a very depressing book - but that was that. As I grew older and the agenda started to accelerate to the stage it is now, the effect of reading that book probably enhances the fear a bit?

I'm pretty convinced that george orwell is not the visionary that people make out, but was completely in on the conspiracy.. why else would this book be compulsory in the educational establishment?

[drhemp]

Thanks for your comments. I also was gonna buy Animal Farm but taht was very expensive too for such a thin book. Obviously they dont want us reading that sort of thing :cool:

Animal Farm is also an excellent book.

Don't they have a library near you, as you don't like paying for books?

I think Bliar and co read 1984 and thought what a good idea.

[debs67gb]

animal farm is amazing :) you should at least try to get it at the library?

[reptilianshapeshifter]

animal farm is amazing :) you should at least try to get it at the library?

I don't think they stock porn at the library, especially the filthy kind! :confused:

Hahah that is the last thread i got involved with where you are concerned else you are gonna think im stalking :D

[debs67gb]

*pats reptilian * lol

[hagbard_celine]

Hey Hagbard,
I got a copy of Huxley's Island, but havnt finished reading it. Its quite an eye opener, this guy has to come to terms with a totally different way of thinking that the islanders employ. They created a community where alternative therapy rules and really works. Similar themes to some of the threads on the 'Health and Healing' forum here. And theres a talking raven in it too. 'Here and Now'. Thats all i remember.

In Brave New World, I found a similarity of the disgust with 'society' that the savage found (which made him top himself) and the feeling of disgust that comes over you when you watch scenes from the film Baraka - the beautiful trance like movements of a rainforest tribe which then cuts to a conveyor belt in a factory processing live chicks.
You couldnt get any different, and those two separate things support the same sentiment - that is - somewhere along the way we've been perverted into a totally unatural way of living which goes against the natural flow of... i dont know... the universe? An observation/realization which 'Island' semi deals with. Or i hope it does, as i havnt finished reading it yet


Thanks for the interim review!:) It makes me more keen to read it now. I'll have to borrow my dad's copy. I think he's got The Dispossessed too.

I've heard of Baraka and it's on my list.:cool:

[hagbard_celine]

It's odd how this book... out of a million books - was compulsory for many UK pupils. I don't think the PTB would want to change it after making it compulsory material for many children partaking in it's educational establishment.

The effect of reading this at school for me was slightly fearful, as it is a very depressing book - but that was that. As I grew older and the agenda started to accelerate to the stage it is now, the effect of reading that book probably enhances the fear a bit?

I'm pretty convinced that george orwell is not the visionary that people make out, but was completely in on the conspiracy.. why else would this book be compulsory in the educational establishment?

Maybe it would have been too much of a giveaway to ban it. It also might have taken a while for the PTB's to grasp what was going on with the book. The Illuminati are very literal and fictional allegories often go over their head. This is why creative people can get away with saying so much in fiction:). By the time they realized what 1984 meant it was too late. It was already a household name.

[hagbard_celine]

animal farm is amazing :) you should at least try to get it at the library?

Yes it is. Even nthnough it's a very case-specific allegory: the Russian Revolution and its subsequent corruption under Stalin, its message can still be applied to other instances and events.

[the itinerant shrubber]

I hate those intro's you get on classic literature.Like I give a fuck what some scholar thinks. I can form my own opinions.

[arten]

Miaranda: Shenoma, what is your point? Orwell can't tell you what to think or to feel. Only you can do that.

Well you state that emphatically Miranda, but what evidence can you present that backs up your assumption. I would say you have no idea how the subconscious mind works. Of course Orwell can influemce people's thinking, if that was not the case why write books or anything in the first place.?


And you blame George Orwell for brainwashing??!!! Projection never fails ... :D

Governmets do NOT have control over people's lives. PEOPLE have control over people's lives!!! That's a major point in the novel - it's people who fuel and feed Big Brother. Without them, Big Brother couldn't exist.

I repeat: society was NOT falling apart in the novel. It was rigidly controlled.

Oxymoron alert folks!

As for the book itself one of the best Dystopian Novels around I think you will find that Orwell and Huxley were influenced by Russell and Neo Darwiniaism.

[hagbard_celine]

I hate those intro's you get on classic literature.Like I give a fuck what some scholar thinks. I can form my own opinions.


I know what you mean.:p It's like these bloody critics who try to put you off watching a film because they happen not to like it!:rolleyes::rolleyes: