How Satanism views the "Church of Satan"

[dereking]

----------------

[thelonious]

Anyone who has studied or practiced genuine Satanism with genuine Satanic orders will know that the Church of Satan and its offspring the Temple of Set are shunned - they spread materialistic and inaccurate ideas about Satanism have nothing to do whatsoever with the Left Hand Path.

What do you define as "genuine Satanism" and "genuine Satanic orders"?

I agree with you that the Church of Satan is based on materialism. I would disagree concerning the Temple of Set, who follow an esoteric and metaphysical philosophy.

However, I would say that equating Satanism with materialsim is completely accurate. "Satan", after all, is just the Judeo-Christian version of the Greek god Pan, who represented sensualism and the forces of matter. The inverted pentagram, which is the universal symbol of Satanism, reflects this materialstic philosophy, showing the elements of matter dominating that of spirit.

[stal]

yep, how many politicians and fortune 500 execs do you see getting around in burzum t-shirts and face paint?

[supertzar]

yep, how many politicians and fortune 500 execs do you see getting around in burzum t-shirts and face paint?

Interesting comment. Which of these two groups do you see as the more Satanic, stal, and why?

[stal]

Interesting comment. Which of these two groups do you see as the more Satanic, stal, and why?


what two groups? all branches of the same tree.

what i meant was that true adherants of the left hand path are not 'satanists' such as the members of the church of satan. imo of course. thats not to say there arent powerful, evil people who refer to themselves as 'satanists'. its just that those people consider the church of satan to be a joke. 'satanism' is a relative term is it not? i realy dont want an argument in semantics here. just an opinion. most of them are pawns anyway.

[supertzar]

I mean between Fortune 500 execs and Black Metal enthusiasts. I'm trying to understand what you mean by that particular comment.

It's a semantic argument by nature, isn't it? Left Hand Path, Satanism, they mean nothing without a definition of terms.

[eternal_spirit]

An English order of Traditional Satanism. Essentially the Order is secret - and intends to remain so as far as most of it's members and activities are concerned. However it's teachings and traditions have been made public, that is, available - thus enabling any individuals who may be interested to follow (if only in part) the way of genuine satanism, for those individuals by so doing (however slightly) will aid the sinister dialectic, increasing the dark forces presenced on Earth.

Some of these individuals may progress to the Order. Currently the Order has gone back to being totally underground, having completed their mission to spread their work.

A Gift for the Prince - A Guide to Human Sacrifice (http://biphome.spray.se/d.scot/Satanism/Ona/Gift.htm)



In ceremonial rituals involving sacrifice, the Mistress of Earth [ sometimes called 'The Lady Master' ] usually takes on the rule of the dark or 'violent' goddess, Baphomet, and the Master of the Temple that of either Lucifer or Satan - the sacrifice being regarded as a gift to the Prince of Darkness.



This gift, however, is sometimes offered to the dark goddess, the bride of our Prince.



Human sacrifice is powerful magick. The ritual death of an individual does two things: it releases energy (which can be directed, or stored - for example in a crystal) and it draws down dark forces or 'entities' . Such forces may then be used, by directing them toward a specific goal, or they may be allowed to disperse over the Earth in a natural way, such dispersal altering what is sometimes known as the 'astral shell' around the Earth.



This alteration, by the nature of sacrifice, is disruptive - that it, it tends toward Chaos. This is simply another way of saying that human sacrifice furthers the work of Satan.
Sacrifice can be voluntary, of an individual; involuntary, of an individual or two; or result from events brought about by Satanic ritual and/or planning (such as wars). Voluntary sacrifice results from the traditional Satanist belief that our life on this planet is only a stage: a gateway or nexion to another existence.



This other existence is in the acausal realm where the Dark Gods exist. The key to this other existence is not negation, but rather ecstasy. A Satanist revels in life because by living life in a joyful, ecstatic way, the acausal that exists within us all by virtue of our being, is strengthened. For Satanists, not only the manner of living is important, but also the manner of death. We must live well and die at the right time, proud and defiant to the end - not waiting sickly and weak.


The scum of the Earth wail and tremble as they face Death: we stand laughing and spit with contempt. Thus do we learn how to live.
Voluntary sacrifice usually occurs every seventeen years as part of the Ceremony of Recalling: the one chosen becomes Immortal, living in the acausal to haunt the edge of the minds of those un-initiated.



An involuntary sacrifice is when an individual or individuals are chosen by a group, Temple or Order. Such sacrifices are usually sacrificed on the Spring Equinox, although if this is not possible for whatever reason, another date may be used. While voluntary sacrifices are always male (and usually twenty-one years of age) there are no restrictions concerning involuntary sacrifices other than the fact that they are usually in some way opponents of Satanism or the Satanic way of living.



Great care is needed in choosing a sacrifice: the object being to dispose of a difficult individual or individuals without arousing undue suspicion.



A Temple or group wishing to conduct such a sacrifice with magickal intent must first obtain permission from the Grand Master or Grand Lady Master.





If this is given, then detailed preparation must begin. First, choose the sacrifice(s) - those who removal will actively benefit the Satanist cause. Candidates are zealous interfering Nazarenes, those (e.g. journalists) attempting to disrupt in some way established Satanist groups or Orders, political/ business individuals whose activities are detrimental to the Satanist spirit, and those whose removal will aid the sinister dialectic and/or improve the human stock.
There are three methods of conducting an involuntary sacrifice:


bymagickal means (e.g. the Death Ritual);
by some person or persons directly killing the sacrifice(s);
by assassination.

Both (2) and (3) can be undertaken either directly by the group/Temple/Order and its members, or by proxy. Proxy involves the Master or Mistress finding a suitably weak-willed individual and then implanting in the mind of that individual - usually by hypnosis - a suitable suggestion.
Whatever method is chosen, a date for the sacrifice should be set and on that date a suitable ritual undertaken. This ritual is most usually the Death Ritual - if method (3) is chosen, the Ritual is performed twice: first, seven days before the chosen date, and then on the date itself while the member/proxy is undertaking the sacrifice. The energy of this latter ritual is then directed (or temporarily stored), or dispersed over Earth, by the person conducting the ritual.



Method (2) involves the Ritual of Sacrifice. The victim or victims are brought or enticed to the area chosen for the Ritual, bound by the Guardian of the Temple and at the appropriate point in the Ritual sacrificed by either the Master or the Mistress using the Sacrificial Knife. The body or bodies are then buried or otherwise disposed of, care being taken if they are found for suspicion not to fall on any of those involved.



Those involved, of course, must be sworn to secrecy and warned that if they break their oath, their own existence will be terminated. Breaking the Oath of Sacrifice draws upon the individual or individuals who break that Oath, the vengeance of all Satanic groups, Order and individuals - and this vengeance is both magickal and more direct, the Master or Mistress of the Ritual appointing Guardians to hunt down and kill those who have broken the Oath.
Those who participate in the Ritual of Sacrifice must revel in the death(s) - it being the duty of the Master and Mistress to find suitable participants.



http://biphome.spray.se/d.scot/Satanism/Ona/ona.htm

[dereking]

Great Secrets hide themselves

[eternal_spirit]

http://freemasonry.bcy.ca/fiction/music/marilyn_manson01.jpg

http://freemasonry.bcy.ca/fiction/music/marilyn_manson02.jpg

Crowley was a member of many Masonic Lodges and held numerous degrees and Masonic titles.

He was also known as the father of modern day Satanism. Manson is a high ranked member of La Vey's Church of Satan, La Vey uses much of Crowley's ideas.

Also the Masonic Culture creators create many occult groups, using intelligence agencies which Crowley also belonged to.... so to deny any links to Masons seems foolish.

MM Marilyn Manson. He used the name Marilyn after Marilyn Monroe (the possible mind controlled project Monarch slave who was probably murdered) the Manson he used after the serial killer Charlie Manson(although Charlie Manson gave the orders he was never charged for taking any part in the murders, if you read the previous post about Order of Nine angels it says that hypnosis and orders from the hierachy are used to make other low levels to do murder/sacrifice) Charlie Manson was said to not do LSD while the family did (he may have been a hypnotist) and of course the male and female names are in honour of one of their Gods the Hermaphrodite Baphomet.

His whole band used names like he did, such as Twiggy (model) and (Ramirez) Self admitted satanic serial murderer.

[stal]

yeah ok thats a fair call.

considering (2nd wave) black metal rose (in part) out of scandiavian hatred of christianity, they would be an obvious choice as stereotypical 'satanists', while bankers and politicians could be considered more of a real 'evil' in the world. taking into account the fact that your average BM fan is not so educated in the lore, whilst many of the rich and powerful are, i would have to say i consider the rich and powerful to be more 'satanic'.

dont get me wrong here though, i know many BM fans know what they are on about, but the real forces of darkness (sic) are more interested in money and power than some kid spitting on a bible at a gorgoroth show. many BM bands are actualy pagans and/or odinists but use the satanic imagery as a crude marketing tool. a sign of rebellion against their local establishment. there are some who proclaim themselves to be true satanists of course. dissection, watain and arkhon infaustus being prime examples. but in reality that is inconsequencial. did jon nordsvelts' suicide allow the neo-cons a second term? did 'sworn to the dark' facilitate the (manufactured) financial crisis?

in short, while members of both groups may have similar intentions, one group has the resources to fully realise their vision. look at it this way. who was a bigger communist? a radical uni student or a member of the kgb? both are still commie scum (lol) but one is an idealist who possibly doesnt know the real deal, while the other is an active participent in 'the real deal'. sorry for teh bad analogy i know, but its getting late and i am tired. and to pre-empt your next remark, yes i have been around both the BM scene (since '91) and the 'posh' scene, so i'm not totaly clueless as to how these things work.

so, what is your take on things? i would be interested to hear someone else's view.

[supertzar]

I suspect that Lavey was a figurehead whose purpose was to provide a public face for Satanism or whatever you want to call organized evil. I'm sure there are many layers to the truth.

For example, he said that doing illegal things would put the Satanist in jeopardy of losing his freedom and so was discouraged. Of course that could be read as if you don't get caught, do anything and everything you like.

[eternal_spirit]

quote:dereking
Satanism rejects abstinence, asceticism, self-denial and the traditional contempt for matter that typifies the majority of spiritual methods. The “otherworldly” concerns is alien to Satanism. The "elsewhere" is within yourself.

This is Church of Satan doctrine/teaching, think you've contradicted yourself with your first post and now this. Or maybe it's just a common belief that covers most satanic groups, probably.

[stal]

everyone remembers "do what thou whilst shalt be the whole of the law"

many forget "and love shalt be the whole of the law"

imo crowley wouldnt piss on levay if he was on fire.

good point. organised evil does require a public face. somebody to put bums on seats. the blatant anti-christian imagery is sure to attract certain people, and i guess if they are right for the job, its not a huge leap to finding the true left hand path. they have to start somewhere.


edit to add - crap i didnt see all these other posts lol

[eternal_spirit]

quote :derking
Your view of Baphomet is also wrong.
No it's not, and I don't need a lecture.

[dereking]

As you say

[thelonious]

The Satanist uses the world as his/her playground completely unattached to the material and laughingly ridiculing the world’s snares.



Sounds like horseshit to me.

[eternal_spirit]

quote:dereking
What you have spoken about the ONA reveals ignorance. While satanic orders can be a ruse to manipulate the weakminded - no one in the ONA itself is a fool below another
No it does not, re read my post, it states that hypnotism can be used. And their are levels of heirachy.

[dereking]

Hypnotism can be used by anyone

Its a tool

Religions use it all over the world - as well as in politics, the media etc.

But prove to me that there is a hierarchy
Does that arise from your knowledge first hand or because you read it in an article?

[stal]

ok you guys seem to have your own private argument going on here, but doesnt the simple fact that you use the term 'satanist' kinda mean you are operating on a limited scale?

dereking what is your definition of the difference between a satanist and a luciferian? this is not a joke question. i would realy like to hear your version.

[enga]

I don't know if I have it right but to me a satanist is a follower of the church of satan, believing in theirself as divine and following their own judgement of right and wrong (self-belief rather than external divinity) and embracing the carnal. They believe do unto others as they do to you and treat people as they are treated.
A luciferian, to me, is someone who believes in the actual Biblical devil and worships that deity and actively seeks to be evil. I'm not sure if I have those definitions correct tbh but that's my current understanding.

[sorath]

Some Satanists are theistic and believe and worship the judeo-christian devil known by many names.

Luciferians believe in the light that destroys the shackles of this "reality" and that light is Lucifer - the giver of wisdom.

However it is not an exclusive thing that you have to believe this or believe that. It is a personal journey and one who walks down the left hand path, walks it alone.

[stal]

enga, thank you for your input. i'm not sure you are correct there, but thanks anyway.

dereking - ok i kinda see where you are coming from now. two sides of the same coin? so do you consider satan/lucifer to be simply one name for a greater force, the way some people see god, buddha, krishna etc to be the same name for another force? or are they ALL the same coin, under a bigger coin? a dollar is a dollar, no matter if you call it a pound or a yen, and then its all money.

where does 'god' fit in to your equation? or does he not fit in at all?

[stal]

thanks for the reply.

you seem to have some grasp of the reality of the situation. balance is essential. two sides to every story, with a band of grey in between. and the story is eternal.

travel well on your chosen path.

[supertzar]

Would you cheer if powerful, destructive beings from space or under the Earth ran rampant over the Earth, destroying the weak and plunging the world into the greatest darkness ever known, dereking? Would you be like Muhuhahahahahaha!!!

[supertzar]

And does that please you?

[supertzar]

I know brutality exists. I'm asking if you enjoy it existing. You are saying that the Satanist finds joy in the repulsive, so I figured you would.

I don't think David Icke ever describes a moralistic being who swoops in to protect us from evil. I don't understand your criticism. Where is the Satanist when the woman gets raped is the question.

[supertzar]

When I refer to repulsive I refer to vomit, piss and shit
If the Satanist is around he may well save the woman if he can

So the Infinite One is powerless? Or if it has the power - it just does not act

Refer to his book "Infinite Love etc." - He says that a change is coming and all shall be gathered back into the fold

Why then (some future time) and not now?

I guess a real Satanist (the really heinous kind that ritually abuses kids) would love to see a woman getting raped as it would be incredible gratification of the carnal desires of the mob. If the Satanist stopped it, it would probably be so that he could get a better shot at her himself.

As far as I know, Icke doesn't personify oneness as a being the way you personify whatever it is you personify as Satan. He seems to be talking about balance returning.

[supertzar]

What is the Infinite?

Does it not include the Brutality of Existence as well?

WHERE IS GOD AND THUS PURITY NOT?

I'm just asking you to clarify whether you prefer chaotic, brutal suffering. It is your path to the infinite, isn't it?

[stal]

the light cannot exist without the dark, and shade in between.

how can one truly know the light without knowing the dark?

[thelonious]

the light cannot exist without the dark, and shade in between.

how can one truly know the light without knowing the dark?

It is true that we must understand the darkness in the world, and in ourselves, in order to truly attain enlightenment. But that's different than glorifying the darkness, which is what the satanists do.

[supertzar]

I figure we get more than our share of darkness here on Earth. Why blot out the light?

Thelonius put it nicely.

[stal]

im not suggesting the blotting out of anything. i agree with what thelonious says, in part at least. at this point in time it seems the dark is overpowering the light to a certain extent. fear ye not for balance shall be returned. but when all is said and done, some must glorify the dark, just as some must glorify the light. balance in all things.

in all honesty though, who here has actualy faced real 'evil'? its not like many icke forum members live in central africa or such places. im not dismissing anyones individual journey, just asking for some perspective.

[supertzar]

We all face evil in the form of malnourishment, disease, ignorance, wanton destruction of the natural world, war, oppression of all kinds...See, it's insidious and so pervasive you have to be smart to put your finger on it. Most stop at "the world is fucked up." Why align with the powers of darkness? We have enough of that. It's so fucking dark we are barely able to comprehend infinite love. How does it help to cheerlead for that shit?

[dereking]

Where is god and thus purity not

[supertzar]

Let me see if I can understand that. Where - is - god - and - thus - purity - not. Nope. Can't understand it. Is it a typo or something only an enlightened Satanist-type can understand?

[dereking]

What is the infinite Supertzar?

[supertzar]

"GOOoooOOO EVIL!!!"
http://www.lixonline.com/images/Fangoria/La%205%2008/awesomest_EvilCheerleader.jpg

[supertzar]

:D Just playin'. Kind of.

What is the infinite Supertzar?

That without boundry? I don't know.

[stal]

We all face evil in the form of malnourishment, disease, ignorance, wanton destruction of the natural world, war, oppression of all kinds...See, it's insidious and so pervasive you have to be smart to put your finger on it. Most stop at "the world is fucked up." Why align with the powers of darkness? We have enough of that. It's so fucking dark we are barely able to comprehend infinite love. How does it help to cheerlead for that shit?

again, i'm not suggesting anyone should 'cheerlead' for the dark. all i am saying is that some choose to do that, and that is a vital part of how the universe works. you cannot have all good. there has to be some bad, or else good rots itself from the inside. do you know anyone who is 100% good? do you know anyone who is 100% percent evil? 75% even? do you think all these people who claim to be good dont get drunk and wank over dodgy porn, or wish they were fucking someone other than their partner, or take drugs, or steal office supplies etc etc etc. when that changes, maybe teh world will change. the road to hell is paved with good intentions. there is a certain amount of room in the grey area, but not enough for the entire world. when everyone is all as shiny and clean as they claim to be, then you can start talking about other stuff.

i wish it could all be happy and fun, but the simple fact is that it is not. you cannot have your cake and eat it too.

wow now i'm starting bum myself out lol

[supertzar]

Where is god and thus purity not

Are you saying god is purity and where does god and thus purity not exist? I don't know. I don't feel a need to personify all that is as god.

[dereking]

And if that was not the case then it wouldnt be very infinite no would it?

[supertzar]

again, i'm not suggesting anyone should 'cheerlead' for the dark. all i am saying is that some choose to do that, and that is a vital part of how the universe works. you cannot have all good. there has to be some bad, or else good rots itself from the inside. do you know anyone who is 100% good? do you know anyone who is 100% percent evil? 75% even? do you think all these people who claim to be good dont get drunk and wank over dodgy porn, or wish they were fucking someone other than their partner, or take drugs, or steal office supplies etc etc etc. when that changes, maybe teh world will change. the road to hell is paved with good intentions. there is a certain amount of room in the grey area, but not enough for the entire world. when everyone is all as shiny and clean as they claim to be, then you can start talking about other stuff.

i wish it could all be happy and fun, but the simple fact is that it is not. you cannot have your cake and eat it too.

wow now i'm starting bum myself out lol

I accept reality. I know what darkness is. I am not some kind of New Age bliss ninny. I don't support the powers that wish to plunge the whole world into unfathomable darkness, though.

[dereking]

You then Supertzar wish to be separated from the infinite and are mired as many others in the illusion of dualism

[supertzar]

The Infinite as David Icke himself said is the balance of all things - it is everything - it is GOD

Thus is everything not part of the infinite?

The Good, the bad and the ugly?

Why does David evn say that he loves Bush?

So again I say, Where is God and thus purity not?

God is in a twinkie and a piece of shit

Sure, but I wouldn't want to eat a piece of shit. Or a twinkie for that matter. :D

[supertzar]

You then Supertzar wish to be separated from the infinite and are mired as many others in the illusion of dualism

How is that? I want some fucking balance, not this eons-old program by some cosmic psychopaths to ground my species into the dirt.

[supertzar]

thats the difference between you and me then is'nt it

- i would gladly eat that piece of shit with satisfaction

LOLOLOL!!! Go eat some shit if you like it so much then. :D

[stal]

I accept reality. I know what darkness is. I am not some kind of New Age bliss ninny. I don't support the powers that wish to plunge the whole world into unfathomable darkness, though.

thats cool. i get what you are saying, realy i do. most of the 'dark powers' dont want that either. if we are all destroyed then they recieve no tribute. of course there are those who wish for the end of everything. they have as much chance as those who wish for all light. one cannot destroy the other. well, except in certain circumstances, but they are rarer than you might think. although, i guess that is the whole point for some people. dealing in absolutes is the only way they can function. thats where the eternal war comes into effect. M.A.D.

[supertzar]

You dont believe in infinity
Correct
You have no proof of reptilians
Correct
You dont realize that the evil out there is human evil - it has to be something else
The "evil out there?" I don't know what you are referring to.
You dont realize that genuine Satanists voyage into metaphysical or Inhuman "evil" that is beyond simple human ignorance and confusion revealed in ego-hungry satisfaction of the basest desires

Maybe I don't comprehend the troo eeeevilness of the genuine Satanist. I don't know. I don't comprehend eating shit and liking it, either. I do know that the real Satanists or whatever they call themselves do things in the physical world that I would kill them for and consider it an act of good.