There IS Evidence of God

[metacomet]

It's called existence. Was this not the point? Is this not the only point?

Yes, we can use our logic and our minds and compare all knowledge gained here in the physical...and in the mental... in the spiritual... we can combine all knowledge and in the end declare 'There is no God after all!'

But the fact that we have such a mind, that we have mental and spiritual capacities, the fact that we have knowledge whatsoever and the fact that we can declare that there is no God - is evidence of 'something'.

The situation as I see it is that many people are no longer willing to call that 'something' God. Just existence. I just 'am'. No creator, no judger, just me in this physical body and physical moment.

Well that's fine as well. Be a materialist. Be atheist. Organized religion is indeed an illusion...

But who gives you the material? Who gives you the capacity to reason? What force created and assembled all of the known and unknown elements in the universe? What force gave consciousness to yourself so that you could observe and catalogue such things?

What force?

Not God?

Then whom?

We require 'evidence' of God yet refute existence itself as just another phenomena... how SILLY!

There is no man in the clouds, no great beard floating in the clouds. We all know this. Let's move on... move on... we are no longer elementary. We are senior. We are ready for the big picture.

Science is the result of consciousness. Consciousness is the result of what?

Ah. You see.

Evidence of God is everywhere. But to say it is evidence of 'God' will get me laughed at :) Oh well.

I say, oh well. For even the person who laughs at me for seeking a conscious source of the universe is himself a form of consciousness within my universe. Even the atheist is part of God. What a ridiculous idea this must be to them :D To recognize it would cause the most incredibly psychedelic mind-blowing laughter... maybe laughter is a form of transcendental recognition. Ah... more evidence of 'it'... Best to be quiet and delegate it to the phenomena of my physical brain and it's firing synapses. That's far easier for me to swallow... for everyone to swallow. And so we do. Gulp gulp.

[lightgiver]

God is within and yes you are correct god is in everything also,why do you worry what others think.:)

The mockers become the mocked,i bet you do not go around mocking people.;)

[metacomet]

God is within and yes you are correct god is in everything also,why do you worry what others think.:)
I used to worry on behalf of my ego. Ego still makes it difficult to approach others with the idea of God. They have ego to cause disbelief and mockery - I have ego to absorb mockery and take offense to the disbelief.

[lightgiver]

I used to worry on behalf of my ego. Ego still makes it difficult to approach others with the idea of God. They have ego to cause disbelief and mockery - I have ego to absorb mockery and take offense to the disbelief.

whats the point of worrying,i used to worry,then i thought what's the point,we are gonna die any way,its what you come back as ,that's the worry is if any,so i just be good or god and take no chances.;):D

There is no such thing as a stupid question,
Only stupid answers; my apologies in advance...

"We don't want to say that Buddhism is a kind of Christianity and Christianity is a kind of Buddhism. A mango can not be an orange. I cannot accept the fact that a mango is an orange. They are two different things. Vive la difference. But when you look deeply into the mango and into the orange, you see that although they are different, they are both fruits.";)

and on ego,

"When one’s ego is harmed, one should rejoice. How great it is! How wonderful it is! In the same way as ordinary people react when their enemy is harmed or when some trouble happens to them, one should rejoice and feel so happy when one’s ego is hurt. Exactly like that, one should think: How fantastic it is for this ego to be harmed!:)

[vallick]

God is within and yes you are correct god is in everything also,why do you worry what others think.:)

The mockers become the mocked,i bet you do not go around mocking people.;)


God is light the light in your eye. All you do is open your third eye and ask God to show you how to breathe correctly. The goal is to make it back to heaven or at least wake up with Gods light in your body its just takes alot of focus and may take three months to a year to do this. So when you close your eyes manipulate your self into thinking that all the light you see is sat guru God and the truth is it is. God is located in the middle of your forehead

you have to focus long enough on your pinael gland to stimulate enough dmt so you trip balls ahaha

the gol is to lern how to wake up with god light in your body and you can control the light and it gives you orgasm and stuff its crazy its like tantra i feel like skeltor in master of the universe with all the light in my body and you can control the light.

so for the first month or two depending on your will
at first your dreams will become more real then you will have control over them. then you will start to have out of bodies experiences. The main goal is to wake up with light in your body so you can put an end to decay and become a God while living on earth. its called Godhood baby woooo

then you come back and your all powerful and stuff instant magick that can be very very dangerous you think of somthing and watch out it will happen.

i usually cheat for my local sport teams and have them win championship under my will ahahaha i hope my rant helps :( what happens is when a love one dies most people including my self loose it. most people are then very angry with God for allowing such things to happen. How can an all loving God allow such suffering there must be no God?? this happens all the time and life sucks. you have to remember that God put us on this earth and we suffer so we may learn the difference between Good and bad so we become Gods. this reality is just an illusion a very real illusion

If you loose a loved one remember that the great illusion will be no more and that our Lord will return to our earth putting an end to death and decay. Now our earth becomes Heaven and you see your died love ones that are now christ like receiving there spiritual christ like bodies

[halleyscomet]

But the fact that we have such a mind, that we have mental and spiritual capacities, the fact that we have knowledge whatsoever and the fact that we can declare that there is no God - is evidence of 'something'

You've bundled a lot of logical fallacies into your overall post. I'm not going to bother with a breakdown, but your main thesis, that sentience implies a greater force, is flawed. You assume that naturalistic explanations like evolution are insufficient to explain the fact that you can think.

Because you yourself refuse to believe that the natural world could have given rise to sentient beings, you conclude that sentient beings MUST be proof of a higher power. The problem is, the only evidence you offer to support your thesis is your own incredulity at the prospect of natural processes resulting in the human mind.

[size_of_light]

It's called existence. Was this not the point? Is this not the only point?

Yes, we can use our logic and our minds and compare all knowledge gained here in the physical...and in the mental... in the spiritual... we can combine all knowledge and in the end declare 'There is no God after all!'

But the fact that we have such a mind, that we have mental and spiritual capacities, the fact that we have knowledge whatsoever and the fact that we can declare that there is no God - is evidence of 'something'.


Not trying to be difficult here, but can you actually prove that you exist, or that you have a mind, or that there is actually 'something', anywhere, at all?

Keep breaking those concepts down and see if you can really find anything anywhere.

I'm not suggesting a nihilistic viewpoint, by the way; far from it.

[element]

It's called existence. Was this not the point? Is this not the only point?

Yes, we can use our logic and our minds and compare all knowledge gained here in the physical...and in the mental... in the spiritual... we can combine all knowledge and in the end declare 'There is no God after all!'

But the fact that we have such a mind, that we have mental and spiritual capacities, the fact that we have knowledge whatsoever and the fact that we can declare that there is no God - is evidence of 'something'.

The situation as I see it is that many people are no longer willing to call that 'something' God. Just existence. I just 'am'. No creator, no judger, just me in this physical body and physical moment.

Well that's fine as well. Be a materialist. Be atheist. Organized religion is indeed an illusion...

But who gives you the material? Who gives you the capacity to reason? What force created and assembled all of the known and unknown elements in the universe? What force gave consciousness to yourself so that you could observe and catalogue such things?

What force?

Not God?

Then whom?

We require 'evidence' of God yet refute existence itself as just another phenomena... how SILLY!

There is no man in the clouds, no great beard floating in the clouds. We all know this. Let's move on... move on... we are no longer elementary. We are senior. We are ready for the big picture.

Science is the result of consciousness. Consciousness is the result of what?

Ah. You see.

Evidence of God is everywhere. But to say it is evidence of 'God' will get me laughed at :) Oh well.

I say, oh well. For even the person who laughs at me for seeking a conscious source of the universe is himself a form of consciousness within my universe. Even the atheist is part of God. What a ridiculous idea this must be to them :D To recognize it would cause the most incredibly psychedelic mind-blowing laughter... maybe laughter is a form of transcendental recognition. Ah... more evidence of 'it'... Best to be quiet and delegate it to the phenomena of my physical brain and it's firing synapses. That's far easier for me to swallow... for everyone to swallow. And so we do. Gulp gulp.

Good post and I totally agree.

Actually there's no reason to convince a materialist. They will never understand, hooked up by words and dead philosophy they are, but not direct experience.
For them, 'dead' is a solution, the thing they worship the most through things as 'body', 'age' and 'time', is actually their solution in the end. Ironic isn't it? :)

[size_of_light]

"When one’s ego is harmed, one should rejoice. How great it is! How wonderful it is! In the same way as ordinary people react when their enemy is harmed or when some trouble happens to them, one should rejoice and feel so happy when one’s ego is hurt. Exactly like that, one should think: How fantastic it is for this ego to be harmed!:)

Thanks :) You posted that and I read it at just the right moment for it to be a very useful reminder to me.

Much appreciated. :)

[metacomet]

You've bundled a lot of logical fallacies into your overall post. I'm not going to bother with a breakdown, but your main thesis, that sentience implies a greater force, is flawed. You assume that naturalistic explanations like evolution are insufficient to explain the fact that you can think.


*sigh* :rolleyes:

You could not be a bigger square. I believe in evolution. I believe there is a higher force behind evolution.

I believe people like yourself are terrified of admitting any kind of higher force or unknown power exists in the universe -that's why EVERY post of yours highlights your status-quo loving scientific-DOGMA!

EVOLUTION IS REAL: I am not some Christian fundamentalist who is afraid of considering such a thing... what are you? You think because you've been brought in to certain areas of information, certain areas of knowledge, that you're heads and shoulders above everyone else on this forum. This underlying attitude reeks in every post of yours, mate. You know all, the rest of us are just silly space-head hippies eh? ;) Thanks but no thanks.

[halleyscomet]

You are absolutely terrified of acknowledging the unknown.

Most agents are. You work for something or someone that I am not the least bit interested in becoming.

Cute straw man argument you have there. You don't like what I say so you blindly assume the worst about me and then conclude I'm an agent of some kind. That's a convenient way to avoid dealing with people who know you're full of bullshit.

[metacomet]

That's a convenient way to avoid dealing with people who know you're full of bullshit.

Ignored. :rolleyes: Congrats, you're the first on the list. It feels good to know I won't waste another second reading your garbage.

Absolutely nothing you post on this site has demonstrated higher intelligence or support for higher intelligence. You're just another robot.

Why are on you on this site, mate? Certainly not to further your knowledge.

You know everything - at least that which has been fed to you. But that must be superior to anything we could possibly offer ourselves. How silly of me to think for myself and not stifle all original thought for the sake of selling out like you have sold out yourself .

We're all just air-headed hippies ;) Stop wasting your time.

[halleyscomet]

How silly of me to think for myself and not stifle all original thought for the sake of selling out like you have sold out yourself .


But you're not thinking for yourself. You're swallowing pseudo religious nonsense being fed to you by others. You're NOT really thinking for yourself, just having thoughts within the confined of the religious ideas you've absorbed from others.

[metacomet]

But you're not thinking for yourself. You're swallowing pseudo religious nonsense being fed to you by others. You're NOT really thinking for yourself, just having thoughts within the confined of the religious ideas you've absorbed from others.

:rolleyes: Incredible.

You know all.

Have a nice life, bro.

[halleyscomet]

:rolleyes: Incredible.

You know all.

Have a nice life, bro.

Just call me the new Siddhartha.

[tonak]

Depends on your definition of god. I would fly with it all. except for judgement. That goes against freedom and love, and oxymoron. I beleive god is the spiritual force that connects us all together "The Force" If we are all god then there is nothing outside of me when i die for i am god and he is me. and if there is judgement it is i who judges myself not something outside of that.

If you beleive what i do, avoid using the term god, your only going to get bad energy for the term god has been raped from the beginning.

[themime]

But you're not thinking for yourself. You're swallowing pseudo religious nonsense being fed to you by others. You're NOT really thinking for yourself, just having thoughts within the confined of the religious ideas you've absorbed from others.


However if you have a belief in a divine creator of everything then the variation on The Simple Cosmological Argument presented by the OP would be a self evident truth.

While I accept that some of the more flowery philosophical arguments presented do smack of special pleading to dismiss them as " pseudo religious nonsense" is to stifle debate and absorbing/evaluating the ideas of others is a part of the learning process.

[metacomet]

If you beleive what i do, avoid using the term god, your only going to get bad energy for the term god has been raped from the beginning.

Exactly, tonak.

No reasonable discussion of 'God' can be had with most people as the concept itself only fits within 'religion' or what they've heard or been told. To be honest it took years for me to understand what 'God' really meant to the first prophets.

It is almost impossible to impart 'it' as a form of knowledge, which is why all religions are vastly obfuscated and full of symbolism, parables and other things. To simply reveal the nature of one-ness is not an easy task...


While I accept that some of the more flowery philosophical arguments presented do smack of special pleading to dismiss them as " pseudo religious nonsense" is to stifle debate and absorbing/evaluating the ideas of others is a part of the learning process.


There is no pleading. I encourage those who do not believe in 'God' to continue disbelief and avoid the topic altogether! But they don't :) They are allergic to discussion or deliberation on the matter. It is in the nature of the ego to fight awareness of non-ego. God is beyond the ego. So who needs it right? ;) What an old and dusty, useless metaphor 'God' is.

I'll worship SCIENCE! A new and BETTER DOGMA! :rolleyes: To examine our own consciousness as anything but the firing of synapses is blasphemy for this new religion.

[themime]

There is no pleading. I encourage those who do not believe in 'God' to continue disbelief and avoid the topic altogether! But they don't :) They are allergic to discussion or deliberation on the matter. It is in the nature of the ego to fight awareness of non-ego. God is beyond the ego. So who needs it right? ;) What an old and dusty, useless metaphor 'God' is.

I'll worship SCIENCE! A new and BETTER DOGMA! :rolleyes: To examine our own consciousness as anything but the firing of synapses is blasphemy for this new religion.


Most people don't even know how their washing machine works and yet feel able to say that God does not exist based on rationality and logic.

I can tell you why it rains or why the Sun comes up in the morning but that doesn't exclude Gods hand in setting the "machine" moving.

Maybe even he has to work within the constraints of the physical sphere so that the balance isn't upset. It could explain such things as why natural disasters happen.

:)

[halleyscomet]

I'll worship SCIENCE! A new and BETTER DOGMA! :rolleyes: To examine our own consciousness as anything but the firing of synapses is blasphemy for this new religion.

I see. Rejecting your form of spirituality and your tired, threadbare argument for the existence of God means I worship science. I can't figure out if you're just resorting back to your personal straw man of the people who disagree with you, or if you've branched out into the False dilemma / false dichotomy fallacy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma).

[metacomet]

Most people don't even know how their washing machine works and yet feel able to say that God does not exist based on rationality and logic.

I agree. Yet if such people are intelligent in any form, mechanically, medically, ethically... they will assume they are intelligent enough to tackle and dismantle 'God' with their tiny hammers of logic and reason. This is a form of arrogance, but it's necessary for the maintenance of the ego. If we truly understood how much is beyond our understanding we might go insane... then what use is our rationality and logic?


I can tell you why it rains or why the Sun comes up in the morning but that doesn't exclude Gods hand in setting the "machine" moving.

Amen. The entire Universe exists with or without my rational explanation of it. I'm grateful for that. I'm also aware what it signifies...

[halleyscomet]

I agree. Yet if such people are intelligent in any form, mechanically, medically, ethically... they will assume they are intelligent enough to tackle and dismantle 'God' with their tiny hammers of logic and reason. This is a form of arrogance, but it's necessary for the maintenance of the ego. If we truly understood how much is beyond our understanding we might go insane... then what use is our rationality and logic?

And yet you were the one who tried to "prove" the existence of God with logic, but your logic only works if one already believes in God.

I'm not trying to claim there is no God, I'm just trying to point out that your argument isn't convincing. All it does is reinforce belief for one who already has it. It does nothing to convince someone who isn't starting with the assumption that a higher being exists. All you're really doing is begging the question (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begging_the_question).

[element]

And yet you were the one who tried to "prove" the existence of God with logic, but your logic only works if one already believes in God.

I'm not trying to claim there is no God, I'm just trying to point out that your argument isn't convincing. All it does is reinforce belief for one who already has it. It does nothing to convince someone who isn't starting with the assumption that a higher being exists. All you're really doing is begging the question (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begging_the_question).
You can understand if you actually have experience yourself of metaphysics. (can be seen as 'higher')
Why waste your time arguing and giving him a lecture like you are some teacher..?

[halleyscomet]

You can understand if you actually have experience yourself of metaphysics. (can be seen as 'higher')
Why waste your time arguing and giving him a lecture like you are some teacher..?

I find it annoying when people make appeals to religion and disguise it as logic. The OP clearly lacks the ability to differentiate between his/her religions beleifs and logical thought. I wanted to make sure anyone coming to this thread would see the alternative viewpoint.

The bottom line is the OP claims a "proof" of the divine which requires you to already believe in the divine to accept the proof. It's a circular argument.

[element]

I find it annoying when people make appeals to religion and disguise it as logic. The OP clearly lacks the ability to differentiate between his/her religions beleifs and logical thought. I wanted to make sure anyone coming to this thread would see the alternative viewpoint.

The bottom line is the OP claims a "proof" of the divine which requires you to already believe in the divine to accept the proof. It's a circular argument.

Your not being alternative at all.
You never show your own opinion?? I wonder why., maybe you have something interesting to add instead of lectures.

You are trapped in dualism aswell, it's clear.

[metacomet]

Your not being alternative at all.


haleyscomet has yet to demonstrate an ounce of original or independent thought :o

Rather than attempt to think outside the confines of his own dogma or sense of reality he, like many others, finds it easier (and far more pleasurable) to poke holes in the ideas of others, in an attempt to deflate anything that might be above their heads.

:cool: it's fine with me. Seeing his posts sit nice and snug, folded up under the ignore list ... something just feel's 'right' about it. :p

[halleyscomet]

:cool: it's fine with me. Seeing his posts sit nice and snug, folded up under the ignore list ... something just feel's 'right' about it. :p

It says a lot about you that you choose to ignore anyone who challenges your world view. It reveals a lot more fear on your part than you realize.

As for my beleifs, they're irrelevant to this thread. This thread is about grand claims that the existence of human consciousness proves the existence of a deity. The claim is absurd in the extreme and accomplishes nothing but allowing people who already believe in a god to pat themselves on the back for being oh so very clever.