If everything is an illusion...

[cleft_asunder]

...then what's reality? Infinite love? Is enlightenment the realisation of Infinite Love, or is this state of being seperate? And how do we know enlightenment isn't simply an illusion of the Matrix as well?

[james777]

...then what's reality? Infinite love? Is enlightenment the realisation of Infinite Love, or is this state of being seperate? And how do we know enlightenment isn't simply an illusion of the Matrix as well?

Good points. I've thought this through myself. Reality is our physical existence, our thoughts, our actions and every conceivable thing or scenario. Infinite Love creates our reality. God is infinite love, he is the creator, therefore he is responsible for creating our reality. Enlightenment is both the spiritual awakening(realisation) and (the realisation of) being seperate. The only illusion is the 'belief' that our reality is an illusionary matrix.

When we have these thoughts of 'illusion' and 'matrix', life becomes dangerous, because (1) it causes more seperation from infinite love and (2) makes living less important and less meaningfull then it really is.

If people really wanna wake up and get out from under the 'brainwash', they should start by 'waking' up from their illusion of life only being an illusion. No wonder there are so many hateful people and atheists. If life was really that un-esteemed, I guess I would have a pathetic, hateful, grave outlook too. I'm glad that I'm 'WIDE AWAKE' though.........are you??

[earthseed]

I'm sorry but I don't think religious programming is the answer to our problem of a hell reality it's just another crutch to get you through. That some loving god will finally fix our problems if we just stop thinking and do what we are told.

Right now the biggest jump we can make is to start questioning our collective/individual reality. Maybe than we can start to make something better? What's real what isn't we could do that forever without an answer. I think what we are looking for is restoration of co-creator who is finally in control again.

[barbitone]

The answers are too simple and too complex at the same time.:D
If you experience ANY kind of duality, then it has to be illusion by definition. The difference between two points determines the third, which represents your consciousness in time-space. The two points are "that which IS" (Love) and "that which IS NOT". (zeros and ones)Only one is real, but without that which IS NOT, you cannot experience yourself as that which IS. That's doesn't neccersarily mean you have to identify your experience with that which IS NOT to experience that which IS. It just has to be. The more you identify with and orientate your consciousness towards that which IS, the more you begin to merg back with the one. Once your consciousness is only aware of the one will you be no longer in illusion. This is why you cannot "know" oneness, you can only "be" oneness.

But while you ARE in the realm of illusion (duality), it pays to identify yourself with that which IS rather than that which IS not. I believe it is also called "evolution".

Remember, darkness is not a reality, it is merely our understanding and perception of the lack of light. There is only light. But we may block it if we wish.

Something like that anyway. I'm no guru.:D Hope it's food for thought though.

Rant over.

[barbitone]

By the way, there's nothing "bad" about illusion (good and bad are prime illusions for a start). We can experience illusions based on the direction of the that which IS NOT or we can experience illusions based on that which IS.

[synergy777]

http://fusionanomaly.net/holographicuniverse.html

Holographic principle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Holonomic brain theory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://www.redicecreations.com/specialreports/2006/01jan/holographic.html

holographic structure = macro in the micro, infinite fractual. its holographic, but holographs are real. its energy, wave/particle duality, influenced by the observer effect = consenus reality/laws programmed into us from school/observation that help the ego/brain uphold the elite sponsered view.

electromagnetic/electrostatic forces. the ancients call it maya/illusion, as it is real but not solid/many dimensions, not thats its false, as even illusion is "real". also the very fact that atoms are 99% empty/hollow, logically suggest/shows " how can we be 100% solid, as the very manner of construction is from these atom/components".

its just devasating to the ego, to realise we are not solid, its a mindfuck. look i can feel, hold, etc, but its not really solid. this type of stuff causes man to become crazy. the sad thing is that its from science, not myth.

http://www.holoscience.com/
The Electric Universe is a holistic answer to myopia* -that narrowing of vision which naturally accompanies the fragmentation of knowledge and learning

http://www.the-electric-universe.info/

http://www.kronia.com/electric.html

http://www.thunderbolts.info/

“From the smallest particle to the largest galactic formation, a web of electrical circuitry connects and unifies all of nature, organizing galaxies, energizing stars, giving birth to planets and, on our own world, controlling weather and animating biological organisms. There are no isolated islands in an electric universe".

David Talbott and Wallace

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maya_(illusion)

Maya (Sanskrit माया māyā[1] ), in Hinduism, is a term describing many things. Maya is the phenomenal world of separate objects and people, which creates for some the illusion that it is the only reality. For the mystics this manifestation is real, but it is a fleeting reality; it is a mistake, although a natural one, to believe that maya represents a fundamental reality. Each person, each physical object, from the perspective of eternity is like a brief, disturbed drop of water from an unbounded ocean. The goal of enlightenment is to understand this —more precisely, to experience this: to see intuitively that the distinction between the self and the universe is a false dichotomy. The distinction between consciousness and physical matter, between mind and body (refer bodymind), is the result of an unenlightened perspective.

In Hinduism, Maya must be seen through in order to achieve moksha (liberation of the soul from the cycle of death and rebirth) - ahamkar (ego-consciousness) and karma are seen as part of the binding forces of Maya. Maya is seen as the phenomenal universe, a lesser reality-lens superimposed on the one Brahman that leads us to think of the phenomenal cosmos as real. Maya is also visualized as part of the Divine Mother (Devi) concept of Hinduism. In the Hindu scripture 'Devi Mahatmyam,' Mahamaya (Great Maya) is said to cover Vishnu's eyes in Yoganidra (Divine Sleep) during cycles of existence when all is resolved into one. By exhorting Mahamaya to release Her illusory hold on Vishnu, Brahma is able to bring Vishnu to aid him in killing two demons, Madhu and Kaitabh, who have manifested from Vishnu's sleeping form. Shri Ramakrishna often spoke of Mother Maya and combined deep Hindu allegory with the idea that Maya is a lesser reality that must be overcome so that one is able to realize his or her true Self.

Maya in Hindu philosophy

In Advaita Vedanta philosophy, maya is the limited, purely physical and mental reality in which our everyday consciousness has become entangled. Maya is believed to be an illusion, a veiling of the true, unitary Self—the Cosmic Spirit also known as Brahman. The concept of Maya was expounded in the Hindu scriptures known as the Upanishads. Many philosophies or religions seek to "pierce the veil" in order to glimpse the transcendent truth, from which the illusion of a physical reality springs, drawing from the idea that first came to life in the Hindu stream of Vedanta. Maya is neither true nor untrue. Since Brahman is the only truth, Maya cannot be true. Since Maya causes the material world to be seen, it cannot be untrue. Hence, Maya is described as indescribable. She has two principle functions—one is to cover up Brahman and hide it from our mind. The other is to present the material world instead of Brahman. She is destructible. Consider an illusion of a rope being confused as a snake in the darkness. Just as this illusion gets destroyed when true knowledge of the rope is perceived, similarly, Maya gets destroyed for a person when they perceive Brahman with transendental knowledge. A metaphor is also given—when the reflection of Brahman falls on Maya, Brahman appears as God (the Supreme Lord). In the pragmatic level, where the world is regarded as true, Maya becomes the divine magical power of the Supreme Lord, to create and rule the world. Maya is God's pious servant. God is not bound by Maya, just as a magician is not illusioned by their own magic. Hence, God is Bliss. However, unenlightened jiva are the servants of Maya, hence they are in misery.

In Hinduism, Maya must be seen through in order to achieve moksha (liberation of the soul from the cycle samsara) —ahamkar (ego-consciousness) and karma are seen as part of the binding forces of Maya. Maya is seen as the phenomenal universe, a lesser reality-lens superimposed on the one Brahman that leads us to think of the phenomenal cosmos as real.

http://www.sanatansociety.org/yoga_and_meditation/hinduism_philosophy_maya_illusion.htm

spiritual unity (your soul/atman and the creator/cosmic soul) is lost in the obsession/fascination of the game/life. when its in a sport eg football, running, its called the zone. you are totally immersed, engrossed in the game, for that peroid of time, everything external, stops, you just focus on the game/task. from the startline until the finishline, you are in the game/zone/life. after you go past the finish/fulltime/death, you come out of that zone/game/life, back into reality/spirtual realm.

is then life like the game/race, birth/death being the start/finish. hence while in life, you forget the reality, before and after, and totally believe, immerse yourself into the game/life, forgetting the truth/reality beyond the game/life. so life being a holodeck/matrix, reality, but a lesser reality than the eternal spirtual realm

[Anders Lindman]

...then what's reality? Infinite love? Is enlightenment the realisation of Infinite Love, or is this state of being seperate? And how do we know enlightenment isn't simply an illusion of the Matrix as well?

Reality is real. Money is real. I can't see how that can be so difficult to understand.

[barbitone]

Reality is real. Money is real. I can't see how that can be so difficult to understand.

That's sarcasm right?

[ngawaka19]

chur you fullas, ages ago, bout 2000 years, ( which, really was 1 second ago) Lao Tsu cracked it. He wrote a bunch of scriptures and called them The Tao Te Ching. chur. In the first line of these scriptures the very first line goes like this:

"The name that can be named is not the eternal name".

I reckon that says it all really.
As you all know, one of the meanings I feel this could have is, the ole', " if you call it an orange 'an orange', that's all its ever going to be.

so if we take that on board and then think about,.........truth........there is no illusion or reality, there's just .........'.is.'..........

here and now................being.........

Lao Tsu also said,

"Truth is change, and change is never the same".

Try and wrap your laughing gear around that clefty. Thanks too, it made me go back to the old trusty scriptures and remember. too meke babe

chur
love and light

[Anders Lindman]

That's sarcasm right?

No, actually, as I see it, that's a fact.

[barbitone]

as I see it

There's the key.

Reality is real

LOL!!!!!!!!!!:D

[Anders Lindman]

There's the key.



LOL!!!!!!!!!!:D

So you agree to that, or are you saying that reality is not real?

[sweet cheeks]

If you had the means to make a "creature" or a person, what would be your motive?

Would it be infinite love?

Does anyone do that?

Just wondering.... :confused:

[bigus_dickus]

If you had the means to make a "creature" or a person, what would be your motive?

the joy of being.

[sweet cheeks]

the joy of being.

Where's the "joy"??

Not everyone shares that point of view.

[mada88]

Reality is real. Money is real. I can't see how that can be so difficult to understand.

Moneys real? are you having a laugh!

[bigus_dickus]

Where's the "joy"??

Not everyone shares that point of view.

if you ask where the joy is, i would have to ask where does your self reside.

how could a point of view be shared by everyone? then it would not be a point of view, but "the view", just pointless, or all points as one.

[sweet cheeks]

Moneys real? are you having a laugh!

For real! See "Money Masters" -

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-515319560256183936&q=Money+Masters&total=1043&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0

[Anders Lindman]

Moneys real? are you having a laugh!

The video Money As Debt is a good description:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9050474362583451279

So money is essentially debt. I can use money to buy things. In that sense money is not an illusion.

In the video they describe how instead of money as debt, it would be better to have governments regulating money instead of having to pay more and more interest to central banks. In another video, Zeitgeist, they said that ZERO cents of all income tax in the U.S. goes to the government, and that all the income tax paid by citizens goes to pay interest for the ever increasing debt.

[barbitone]

So you agree to that, or are you saying that reality is not real?

I was hinting that you might want to upgrade your terminology for this kind of issue.

"Reality is real" is a complete non-statement. An oxymoron. Notice how the word reality already contains the word "real"? You might as well be saying "real is real". Not terrifically awe-inspiring.