The 2012 Enigma by David Wilcock

[alternative_answer]

This film was fantastic The 2012 Enigma by David Wilcock (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4951448613711060908&q=2012+enigma&ei=CLgMSPWSHoXErgKz8cifBA)

[vladmir]

oh yeah, i remember seeing that one a while back, thats the first time i seriously looked at the concept of 'stargates' as they are called.
Pretty far out stuff, i like it.
Also, check out his amazing books,
The Divine Cosmos
http://www.scribd.com/doc/459471/The-Divine-Cosmos-by-David-Wilcock
and
The Shift of the Ages
http://www.scribd.com/doc/459473/Shift-of-the-Ages-by-David-Wilcock
and also
The Science Of Oneness
http://www.scribd.com/doc/8346909/The-Science-of-Oneness

[branjo]

Totally agree, he is an amazing guy. Very enlightening to watch, you should check out his interviews with Project Camelot for more info on what makes him tick.
The Edgar Cayce stuff is pretty out there but very intriguing nonetheless.
His information resonates pretty well with me so while I am being critical I can still give him the benefit of the doubt.

A must see in my book

[zysin5]

Im going to check this out.. I have heard David in the past before.. And I like alot of what he has to say upon the Law of 1..

So I will be back soon after I take a look at his new film..
Last time I heard about him, he was in the filming stages of this...

[size_of_light]

Good presentation on the pineal gland...all the Dan Burisch and Stargate stuff doesn't sit right with me.

Jury out. :D

[tesla]

I watched this around xmas time..

Found it real interesting, I liked how he went into detail about the philadelphia experiment..

[alternative_answer]

bump!

[branjo]

Yeah I think this thread does require another bump, taking the Edgar Cayce stuff out of the picture, which is never going to be a concrete fact for most people. David Wilcock is one of the very few that isn't spreading fear about the coming times. He is spreading quite the opposite, he like we are not denying the existence of secrets but to get hung up on a secret with your own idea of it its truly pointless.

I am going to go out on a limb here and will accept certain flaming post because of it, but no one wants to admit that the possibility of the ptb actually doing the right thing, and I don't mean governments and the like I mean the people way above the level of the Illuminati, namely those who don't even have a descriptive name.

Now if you think im saying that killing 4/5 of the worlds population is a good thing, no im not, but lets face it 100% of the population is still going to die regardless of time. At some point in this 3rd density the body can't live forever and when you separate fear from inevitability you remove the needless grip on the singular life because of a lets use the word "faith" of many more to come. It takes the pressure off somewhat, for me anyway.

So this guy Wilcock has come full circle in the conspiracy community and been involved with outing as much of the secrets as he possibly can, but to the point where the only thing to worry about now is how much positivity or how much negativity you emit from yourself.

Even people who class themselves as truth seekers and "outers" of conspiracies can still be delivering negativity to those who are oblivious to the conspiracy. The way we educate people is just as important as what we educate them with. Meaning that instilling fear into someone with truth in mind is still instilling fear no matter how you look at it, and there are better ways to be understood.

Now if we all have a particular role in life and I use that term "role" literally as if we are actors running without a script. Then the way we conduct ourselves in relation to the rest of the "play" is paramount. After an actual play the Hero doesn't hate the Villain, rather they would converse happily about their respective role and what effect it had on the audience. Like when people actually stop an actor who plays a bad guy in the street and curse them because of the role in a TV soap. To make the play so real for the audience is the most rewarding thing for the actor.

So with that in mind what if the Illuminati or PTB or whatever and whoever they are, are just playing a role just like the rest of us. Even if they believe that the whole thing is rock solid without a doubt real, when the curtain comes down the realization and point to the play will once again unite all actors in it. After all we are all undoubtedly "One" beneath any and all devices of separation we percieve.

I like Wilcock and I like his message, he doesn't come across as a "Follow me" kind of guy but a "follow yourself" one. I think the one reason we are all here on this forum or any other like it is because of the fear of the unknown, obviously there are uses for fear but only as a point in a cycle. To constantly surround yourself in it will increase pressure and cloud the ability to see the simple truths when they present themselves.

Obviously we must be critical because we have to decide for ourselves that each and every decision we make is a fork in the road, and we all want to get the furthest we can on the road of knowledge of life, the game or play we find ourselves in.

If positive/negative as he said will be the deciding factor in your perceivable reality then when we look at what we fear and hate, can we change ourselves enough to love what we once hated.

I find the whole subject fascinating, critical and damn right relaxing that the repetitive cycle of incarnations can be broken at any time, when we lend ourselves to the idea that life could be just a stage to provide "Self Amusement" and "Self Knowledge" to the infinitely fragmented "oneness" we are all surely part of.

[bario]

David Wilcock is doing what we should all be doing, we should be finding the positive! The truth seeker scene is filled with so much fear and hatred, if reality truely is self-created I'd rather listen to the positive message of Wilcock over the fearfull messages of Icke.

[branjo]

Here here!

:)

[schroedingerscat]

Just finished chapter 2 of "The Science of Oneness"... very good so far.
http://www.divinecosmos.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=category&sectionid=6&id=19&Itemid=36

[schroedingerscat]

David Wilcock at Rumor Mill Radio Show

David's own words about this show:

"I can assure you, what unfolds here was completely spontaneous despite how well-organized it comes across. This is definitely one of the most comprehensive, all-inclusive and far-reaching radio shows Ive ever done, based on the variety, volume and complexity of the material, and the ease with which I weave it all together."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8aKvoYYzJ4&feature=channel_page

This video is in 17 parts, and covers a lot of material.

[vladmir]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8aKvoYYzJ4&feature=channel_page

This video is in 17 parts, and covers a lot of material.
thanks for posting.

[branjo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8aKvoYYzJ4&feature=channel_page

This video is in 17 parts, and covers a lot of material.

Excellent find!

Ty bro

[alternative_answer]

BUmp!

[arty2000]

Yeah I think this thread does require another bump, taking the Edgar Cayce stuff out of the picture, which is never going to be a concrete fact for most people. David Wilcock is one of the very few that isn't spreading fear about the coming times. He is spreading quite the opposite, he like we are not denying the existence of secrets but to get hung up on a secret with your own idea of it its truly pointless.

I am going to go out on a limb here and will accept certain flaming post because of it, but no one wants to admit that the possibility of the ptb actually doing the right thing, and I don't mean governments and the like I mean the people way above the level of the Illuminati, namely those who don't even have a descriptive name.

Now if you think im saying that killing 4/5 of the worlds population is a good thing, no im not, but lets face it 100% of the population is still going to die regardless of time. At some point in this 3rd density the body can't live forever and when you separate fear from inevitability you remove the needless grip on the singular life because of a lets use the word "faith" of many more to come. It takes the pressure off somewhat, for me anyway.

So this guy Wilcock has come full circle in the conspiracy community and been involved with outing as much of the secrets as he possibly can, but to the point where the only thing to worry about now is how much positivity or how much negativity you emit from yourself.

Even people who class themselves as truth seekers and "outers" of conspiracies can still be delivering negativity to those who are oblivious to the conspiracy. The way we educate people is just as important as what we educate them with. Meaning that instilling fear into someone with truth in mind is still instilling fear no matter how you look at it, and there are better ways to be understood.

Now if we all have a particular role in life and I use that term "role" literally as if we are actors running without a script. Then the way we conduct ourselves in relation to the rest of the "play" is paramount. After an actual play the Hero doesn't hate the Villain, rather they would converse happily about their respective role and what effect it had on the audience. Like when people actually stop an actor who plays a bad guy in the street and curse them because of the role in a TV soap. To make the play so real for the audience is the most rewarding thing for the actor.

So with that in mind what if the Illuminati or PTB or whatever and whoever they are, are just playing a role just like the rest of us. Even if they believe that the whole thing is rock solid without a doubt real, when the curtain comes down the realization and point to the play will once again unite all actors in it. After all we are all undoubtedly "One" beneath any and all devices of separation we percieve.

I like Wilcock and I like his message, he doesn't come across as a "Follow me" kind of guy but a "follow yourself" one. I think the one reason we are all here on this forum or any other like it is because of the fear of the unknown, obviously there are uses for fear but only as a point in a cycle. To constantly surround yourself in it will increase pressure and cloud the ability to see the simple truths when they present themselves.

Obviously we must be critical because we have to decide for ourselves that each and every decision we make is a fork in the road, and we all want to get the furthest we can on the road of knowledge of life, the game or play we find ourselves in.

If positive/negative as he said will be the deciding factor in your perceivable reality then when we look at what we fear and hate, can we change ourselves enough to love what we once hated.

I find the whole subject fascinating, critical and damn right relaxing that the repetitive cycle of incarnations can be broken at any time, when we lend ourselves to the idea that life could be just a stage to provide "Self Amusement" and "Self Knowledge" to the infinitely fragmented "oneness" we are all surely part of.

very nice...thats my view to a tee:)...relax

[filinfinland]

If positive/negative as he said will be the deciding factor in your perceivable reality then when we look at what we fear and hate, can we change ourselves enough to love what we once hated.

I find the whole subject fascinating, critical and damn right relaxing that the repetitive cycle of incarnations can be broken at any time, when we lend ourselves to the idea that life could be just a stage to provide "Self Amusement" and "Self Knowledge" to the infinitely fragmented "oneness" we are all surely part of.

When david wilcock was edgar cayce he stated that the law of karma is immutable by choice. If we choose to identify with the aspect of ourselves that experiances pain and suffering then we ourselves are re-enforcing the illusion of separation and duality, requiring re-incarnation to attain balance.

Even forgiveness is part of this illusion. We can only forgive if we think that a wrong has been done, when we lift ourselves above the notion of duality we can see that nothing has been done to require that forgiveness since all actions are merely the catalyst for maturation and learning.

If you are familiar with the "hidden hand" material you will remember that he stated, "when you realise that there is only one of us here(on this planet/ in this reality) then you will truely understand the nature of the "game".

[hank_scorpio]

let me get this straight. He THINKS he is somebody else. I think either way hes just rationalizing that in his mind because of the fact that as human beings we are not a single organism we are trillions of cells working together in perfect harmony. Reincarnation sounds and looks like bullcrap because the laws that bound the universe MUST be the same everywhere so if a human being can come back, theoretically every blade of grass, every hydrogen atom, every tree, every asteroid, comet, galaxy would too. I really doubt all the grass on earth are the same blades of grass that existed 1,000,000,000 years ago because of the fact that all life has evolved with respect to the environment. Everything is environmentally determined. If reincarnation were real theoretically then that would mean that life never 'evolved' its always been this way which is IMPOSSIBLE looking at evidence of evolution such as our tailbone, wisdom teeth, kidneys so many evolutionary DEAD ENDS.

Does David have any real evidence/theories with evidence suggesting that reincarnation is real, other than him thinking hes somebody else. Im not going to be a moron and just believe him without further investigation.

[branjo]

Yes but are you convinced that the Hidden hand posts are genuine? I was when I read it but not anymore. Given enough time anyone could come up with that and the ATS website is for me an amusement park. I have an account there with maybe 1 post at the most and I really don't intend to make anymore, I just don't like the feel of it at all.

The Game may be just that "a game" therefore nothing of what we do will have any detrimental effects on who we are aside from in the game, but if its not a game meaning that there is no "outside" of it then what would that mean?

I honestly tried not to form an opinion of Wilcock when he said he was Cayce, I think its a little too out there for anyone to really understand, I personally don't think he even looks like Cayce but that doesn't mean he isn't either, the similarities in his friends is interesting. But when someone tells you that you look like a really intelligent awesome guy from another life, it can and probably will go to your head a little.

That being said of course I do actually believe in re incarnation and ultimately we have to have been someone for that to work, so maybe he is Cayce. But does it really matter either way, I mean he could be wrong and you could be Edgar Cayce...lol.

I think Wilcock is an awesome guy and I love how positive he remains while all the world is losing its head in fear, you know even if he is flat out wrong he will still be doing a positive thing, to me either way he is still a good soul.

I do agree with you though about the illusion of right and wrong though, but its a pretty huge discussion attached to it also and there are many things to consider and rightly so but basically if we can rise "beyond good and evil" to steal a Nietzsche title for myself, then we can see that all actions and forms are just methods of learning the many different angles of the one.

But I also feel that with everything there is reason and purpose to it, the hidden hand guy made it seem like we should have sympathy for the Lucifer complex I think that's how he put it and its job was to leave its 6th density to do the 8th density council a favor and return to the earth to be the bad guy like the villain in the play.

It made sense to me and then it didn't, like why would the entity known as Lucifer who is fragmented enough to balance out the Yahweh entity, make out the Yahweh entity to be a bit of a selfish twat, it basically is reinforcing the biblical belief structure or destruction of it. I smelt a rat soon after I started to think about it and well lets just say I am not willing to give Hidden hand the pat on the back he thinks he deserves.

I like thinking about things and answering them with the mood they find me in and I am pretty much fully prepared to be wrong about everything, but I just can't seem to not give my 2 cents worth at the time either, I have my faults too ya know but I still rely heavily on the assumption of free will, and maybe that is wrong too, I don't really know for sure.

But then lol if I am wrong we will soon find out and it basically won't matter anyway because its all just a game. I just hope that we can establish enough points for a bonus round and maybe an extra life or two :D

[filinfinland]

let me get this straight. He THINKS he is somebody else.

Does David have any real evidence/theories with evidence suggesting that reincarnation is real, other than him thinking hes somebody else. Im not going to be a moron and just believe him without further investigation.

Reincarnation is an abolute reality. Not just his but for us all. I was a little sceptical about his claim untill i saw the pictures of him next to the pictures of edgar cayce. Have you looked at the evidence or are you just telling us what you think. An uninformed opinion is invalid.

[hank_scorpio]

Reincarnation sounds and looks like bullcrap because the laws that bound the universe MUST be the same everywhere so if a human being can come back, theoretically every blade of grass, every hydrogen atom, every tree, every asteroid, comet, galaxy would too. I really doubt all the grass on earth are the same blades of grass that existed 1,000,000,000 years ago because of the fact that all life has evolved with respect to the environment. Everything is environmentally determined. If reincarnation were real theoretically then that would mean that life never 'evolved' its always been this way which is IMPOSSIBLE looking at evidence of evolution such as our tailbone, wisdom teeth, kidneys so many evolutionary DEAD ENDS.
don't bother to read what i said at all

[branjo]

Yes but then explain it to us that an Atom is not self aware, Our Cells are self aware and together they make up a conscious being ie "us" but they have every function of the whole do they not? They eat, sleep, excrete waste, react to environmental change, determine their role as cells and function on electrical signals from a higher power ie our consciousness. If our consciousness is not bound to the physical then why assume it is bound to the lifespan of the physical?

[filinfinland]

Yes but are you convinced that the Hidden hand posts are genuine? I was when I read it but not anymore. Given enough time anyone could come up with that and the ATS website is for me an amusement park.

I don't think it is necessary to believe that hidden hand was genuine. Einstein said "the pioneers of a warless world are the young men who refuse military service". That's rich coming from one of the guys who help create the atomic bomb!!!

John lennon "imagine no possesions" and then left 250 million dollars to his wife?????

I will relate an experiance of mine. When i was younger i was a member of the pentacostal church. Not a very good member 'cos i was also reading the philoshophies of other religions. As i studied more and more i found that despite the superficial differences as espoused by the priesthood, when i delved into the mysticism of ANY religion i found an awfull lot of similarities

Being a good christian (or a least having a crack at being one) I decided to take my questions to god. As i prayed one evening i asked "how is it so". With that i found myself standing in a large hall. All down one side there were stained glass windows.

Behind each window was a group of people with one man at the front. The man at the front of each group was telling the people behind him how the sun only shone through the window they were looking at. He explained the importance of the different colours of the glass and how they told of the nature of the sun. Each man was telling the people behind him that all the other people were fooling themselves by thinking that the sun shone through their window.

I was taken down the hall to the end where there was a small door set into the wall. I was led outside to find myself standing in a beautifull garden in brilliant sun light. The voice explained to me that every window was like a religion. The sun could be seen THROUGH any one of them, but was not IN any of them. And at best they should be used as an indicator that the sun actually existed.

It is not important to believe that i had that experiance, what matters is the message. Does it give you what you need to know.

Shortly afterwards i left the church. Hope this helps

There is no argument that can convince a man with personal experiance.

[branjo]

Not really as you didn't really answer the question persay. From your post I will probably have to assume that yes you do believe in hidden hands description of things, and wouldn't that be a tad hypocritical as he is acting like a priest with his own window. But if you don't believe him then how can you take certain parts of what he says as truth either, like life being a game for example, I'm not judging here, just questioning.

Einstein didn't "create" the atomic bomb though, his work was used to create it, that work also is used in many other areas too, and has gone far beyond knowledge of a weapon in a lot of scientists eyes.

John Lennon never claimed that he didn't have connections to possessions he said "Imagine" what life would be like if we didn't, he wasn't setting himself apart from the song he was including himself in it.

We all see and hear exactly what we want to hear, are any of us immune to that really?

What I got from your post is that your idea of god is not bound to the idea of religion, well most here would agree with that without any doubt. But it doesn't take a lot of gray matter to see through religion as a system of control though, pretty basic stuff there I think.

You see I was never involved in the church because I was never forced or indoctrinated into it. I was always given the choice even from a child, so to see religion just for what it was, I had a shorter road to travel than maybe you did, but do you deserve more brownee points than I do for realizing the same thing?

There is no argument that can convince a man with personal experiance.
Basically that statement roughly translates too, putting your fingers in your ears and shouting "la la la I'm not listening la la la"............ :D sorry, just a joke.

I would guess that what we feel today isn't how we are going to feel about the same thing for the rest of our lives, gotta leave room for improvement or a complete redefinition altogether. I mean long ago I used to not give a shit, now I do, the time may come when I don't care again, never say never, as they say.

Still its good to communicate regardless of where we are coming from, which is probably not that different in real terms either. :)

[filinfinland]

Not really as you didn't really answer the question persay. From your post I will probably have to assume that yes you do believe in hidden hands description of things, and wouldn't that be a tad hypocritical as he is acting like a priest with his own window. But if you don't believe him then how can you take certain parts of what he says as truth either, like life being a game for example, I'm not judging here, just questioning.

Einstein didn't "create" the atomic bomb though, his work was used to create it, that work also is used in many other areas too, and has gone far beyond knowledge of a weapon in a lot of scientists eyes.

John Lennon never claimed that he didn't have connections to possessions he said "Imagine" what life would be like if we didn't, he wasn't setting himself apart from the song he was including himself in it.



What I got from your post is that your idea of god is not bound to the idea of religion, well most here would agree with that without any doubt. But it doesn't take a lot of gray matter to see through religion as a system of control though, pretty basic stuff there I think.

You see I was never involved in the church because I was never forced or indoctrinated into it. I was always given the choice even from a child, so to see religion just for what it was, I had a shorter road to travel than maybe you did, but do you deserve more brownee points than I do for realizing the same thing?


Basically that statement roughly translates too, putting your fingers in your ears and shouting "la la la I'm not listening la la la"............ :D sorry, just a joke.

I would guess that what we feel today isn't how we are going to feel about the same thing for the rest of our lives, gotta leave room for improvement or a complete redefinition altogether. I mean long ago I used to not give a shit, now I do, the time may come when I don't care again, never say never, as they say.

Still its good to communicate regardless of where we are coming from, which is probably not that different in real terms either. :)


I did not say that i believed in hidden hand but there are a few things that were said in such a way as to convince me that it was possibly true. Triggers of consciousness i call them. But it is irrelevant.

I didn't say einstein created the a bomb i said he helped and as for john, imagination is useless without action. Had he led by example i might feel different towards him (but that is also irrelevant)

As for the brownie points.??? I will always state,as does alex collier, that no-one is better than anyone else, just different. I communicate these things for the love of humanity in the hope that i can help others to find THEIR TRUTH, not mine.

My notion of god is incomprehensable to me, so i certainly would not try to convince others, and as i stated, it is not necessary to believe the messenger, what is important is the message.

As i am sure you are aware, the best dis-information contains elements of the truth, this is what makes it plausable, but, just because it is embedded in dis-information does not make the truth any less of the truth.

I would never stick my fingers in my ear and say lalala. It's hard to close your mind when your heart is open wide, and my heart is as open as it could be.

And yes, it is good to communicate. Let's keep it up. look forward to your response.P

[rodin]

Einstein was a puppet actor. He fronted a large operation. His contribution to Manhatten was PR

[branjo]

I did not say that i believed in hidden hand but there are a few things that were said in such a way as to convince me that it was possibly true. Triggers of consciousness i call them. But it is irrelevant.

I didn't say einstein created the a bomb i said he helped and as for john, imagination is useless without action. Had he led by example i might feel different towards him (but that is also irrelevant)

As for the brownie points.??? I will always state,as does alex collier, that no-one is better than anyone else, just different. I communicate these things for the love of humanity in the hope that i can help others to find THEIR TRUTH, not mine.

My notion of god is incomprehensable to me, so i certainly would not try to convince others, and as i stated, it is not necessary to believe the messenger, what is important is the message.

As i am sure you are aware, the best dis-information contains elements of the truth, this is what makes it plausable, but, just because it is embedded in dis-information does not make the truth any less of the truth.

I would never stick my fingers in my ear and say lalala. It's hard to close your mind when your heart is open wide, and my heart is as open as it could be.

And yes, it is good to communicate. Let's keep it up. look forward to your response.P

Ok with regards to John Lennon, I don't think he would have spread any message without the need of money and such, so that is kind of a catch 22 situation. How can you tell the masses about a way of life if they cannot hear you, ya know. At the minute I think anyone trying to do any good int he world has to be a tiny bit of a sell out, but there is a real need to give something back. That's why I will take Icke over Jones any day of the week and twice on Sundays, because Icke may have some freaky information to share but he does back it up with whats important and that is the empowering of the human spirit which I have no doubt in my mind will be the deciding factor with regards to our survival as a species.

But and its a big BUT, I have just recently started to look into Collier like I said I would and I watched his, I think it was 1994 interview, you know the one with him in front of some gawdy looking yellow curtains...lol and I have to say the guy is pretty much on par with how I see things myself, in fact I was pretty blown away with his attitude altogether. Even his explanations of the Reptilian are so different from the constant admiration I hear in this forum regarding them, he doesn't say they are shape shifters as far as I have heard and he doesn't say they should be brought into every aspect of our perception of our outlook of the world and what we need to do to fix it, he does say they evil bastards and that is understandable.

Now I am more willing to believe his interpretations of them then I am Icke, now I have been hard on Icke in the past and it is mainly due to the Reptilian thing, I think its far to convenient to describe them as shape shifters as it demonizes anyone we have a problem with, and then you have the people saying oh yes I know a Reptilian and they are just misunderstood n such.

And that's fine and dandy n all and I don't think we have the right to deny existence of any being out there but and as Collier said and I find him to be pretty on the mark here, that we do not have to sit idly by and worry about bad karma with regards to them, they are the ones that are infringing on our free will but they are doing it through the assholes we have in power who have sold out the human race for some kind of place at the feet of the aggressors who ever they may be.

Its extremely hard to just set ones beliefs aside and start believing in something that is so contrary to everyday normality and by normality I mean the shit state the world is in today. There is no doubt that something negative has the world by the balls and if that doesn't change then we are the ones to blame. I still think these invaders reptilian or not should not factor into our goals as earth grown human beings and not that we should ignore them or anything but the more we place our plans "around" them, then the more conscious ammunition we give them.

Also with new avenues of information I usually check the person out by looking for Debunking of them and the only things I seemed to turn up were people saying he plagiarized Billy Meier which I know is bullshit cause I have read and seen a hell of a lot regarding Meier and the two accounts are chalk and cheese, and the other negative comments are just that Collier is nuts and there are no Aliens which you have to expect anyway.

I still feel that the way in which we make people aware is one of the most important things we are faced with, they don't even need to know per say about these things they just need to empowered enough that even if something this sinister presents itself, then the human race will feel so goddamn good about itself that it will turn and laugh in the faces of such creatures. So I stick to my guns regarding there importance to what we need to do as a species.

So all in all filinfinland you have broadened my perspective regarding these things and I don't want to jump right into the Us vs Reptilian boat just yet as I will always keep the part of my trust and intellect reserved to recant anything I see as fraudulent, but at the moment I am liking Alex Collier a lot so thank you for giving me the inclination to look into him further than I have done in the past.

So sorry if it seemed like you were banging your head against a brick wall with me, but I have a habit of pushing people to limits and I just get the back fur up when I think of someone elevating themselves above me or anyone else, this I know you were not doing but as we know communication is a prickly ball and has to be handled carefully.

[filinfinland]

But and its a big BUT, I have just recently started to look into Collier like I said I would and I watched his, I think it was 1994 interview, you know the one with him in front of some gawdy looking yellow curtains...lol and I have to say the guy is pretty much on par with how I see things myself, in fact I was pretty blown away with his attitude altogether. Even his explanations of the Reptilian are so different from the constant admiration I hear in this forum regarding them, he doesn't say they are shape shifters as far as I have heard and he doesn't say they should be brought into every aspect of our perception of our outlook of the world and what we need to do to fix it, he does say they evil bastards and that is understandable.


Also with new avenues of information I usually check the person out by looking for Debunking of them and the only things I seemed to turn up were people saying he plagiarized Billy Meier which I know is bullshit cause I have read and seen a hell of a lot regarding Meier and the two accounts are chalk and cheese, and the other negative comments are just that Collier is nuts and there are no Aliens which you have to expect anyway.

I still feel that the way in which we make people aware is one of the most important things we are faced with, they don't even need to know per say about these things they just need to empowered enough that even if something this sinister presents itself, then the human race will feel so goddamn good about itself that it will turn and laugh in the faces of such creatures. So I stick to my guns regarding there importance to what we need to do as a species.


I am glad that you are looking at the collier material from the perspective of one who is familiar with the meier material. In the interview that collier gave this spring he gives a small snippet of information that sheds a new light on the meier case.

He tells us the reason the andromedans got involved was because the pleaidians had created a situation in which their race had become karmicly entangled and they had requested help. They had promised to look after us at the end of the atlantean destruction but they left. This allowed other races to come here and do as they pleased, leading us to the situation we have today.

Bacically they ran away and left us to fend for ourselves. If that was the case (and i have reason to believe it was) Then they are hardly likely to admit it. According to my sources they have still not met their commitments and now find themselves in a situation that they do not know how to resolve. Remarkably similar to the situation in which the secret government finds itself .


Collier also sheds a little light on the reptilians. He explains that they are also being manipulated by a race above them. Apparently the reptilians originated in another universe but were such a problem that they were sent here by another race (who probably have some shitty karma coming their way). This explains why they inhabit a dimension that is not in phase with ours.

They are somewhere between the 3rd and 4th dimension at a frequency that has not the same resonant frequency as this universe. Their technology allows them to access the 4th dimension but no higher. One of the side effects of their frequency is that their technology cannot access zero point energy, this is why they need to feed off us for their energy requirments. Or more accurately they harvest our fear which just happens to be the same frequency at which their technology works.( see the work of tesla with regard to obtaining energy from electro magnetic waves)

With regard to their shapeshifting, consider this. Is it possible that what people are describing is not the change from one shape to another. Is it possible that the reps are projecting a human image over their own. In which case to an observer it may APPEAR as though they changed form but what has actually happened is that the human image has temporarily been displaced by the underlying reptilian image.

There is evidence from the work of dr ruth drown that blood is a holographic template, this would explain the reptilians need for it in order to project the human image. Consider also the story of the roman emperor, Justinian, who was reported to be a demon in human form. People had reported seeing his face contort to impossible proportions and then snap back to it's normal form. He was also considered to be the cruellest, most depraved man to ever rule rome (and that was a stiff competition) these are classic thraits of reptilians. I cannot say for sure if this was the case but i feel that the evidence is worthy of consideration.

You are absolutely right to not give too much attention to them since they really are not the major players in our current situation. Robert dean, a former high ranking NATO officer and now high ranking whistle blower stated that he had gone into the military specificly to investigate the ufo phenomena and to find out why the government was covering it up. He said that when he found out what the situation was, he understood why the government was covering up. It's not about the other races, it's about us. Who we are, where we come from and where we are going.

Also, it is my understanding that there are far more civilisations here that exist at higher dimensions. Many of whom have representatives incarnated in human form at this moment. Apparently this was done to exploit a loop hole in the law of non-interferance which states that no race is to interfere with another races evolution.

If however, an ET soul is incarnated into another race then they have the right to act on that races behalf since they are, in one sense, a member of that race. So we see that the situation is very complicated. No-one in this dimension can see all the actors and so it is impossible to state with absolute certainty who the major players are.

Having said that, Collier mentions an event which occured in 1994 and was picked up by the chandra x-ray telescope and a number of deep space arrays. I believe it was on the cover of newsweek magazine and featured in several articles in scientific journals.

The event was initiated by something being observed leaving a black hole at twice the speed of light and was accompanied by a signal broadcasting in a previously unknown spectrum from all the black holes in the universe. According to collier this signal was embedded with conscious beings who had the ability to see through all the dimensions in this universe.

According to the andromedans, based on information gained from their teachers on 9th dimension, no-one knows who these beings are or where they come from as they have not made contact with any other race.

I would like to offer you an insight into this. I have not seen this information anywhere else and it is entirely possible that this is the first time it has been transmitted, anywhere in the universe.

This universe is one of an enormous number (a trillion trillion may not be accurate but is suitably incomprehensable) within a spherical region we shall call the Cell. The Cell is constructed from the vibratory frequency of the sum of all the universes it contains. The Cell itself is one of an infinite number of Cells in a structure we shall call the Form. Each Cell within the form has a unique vibratory frquency and corresponding colour spectrum.

At the level of the Cell exists a race we shall call the Governors. The Governors co-ordinate all the activity in the Cell to maintain the frequency spectrum of the Cell in balance with all other Cells within the form.

These are the beings which entered our universe in 1994.

Due to the wave structure of matter ( see my other posts, i will start a thread on this topic later) any thing that happens within each universe has a direct effect on all others within the same Cell. The negative imbalance within this universe is having a direct detrimental effect on the operation of the Cell, and so the Governors have come to redress the balance.

As collier reports, correctly, a new universe is created when there is a sufficiently broad density spectrum to allow the formation of a seed universe within a host universe. Collier also reports that from the andromedan perspective it appears that the entire density spectrum of this universe is being lifted up to the next corresponding frequency allowing not only the creation of a 12th dimension but also causing the lowest densities to form a seed universe.

This is the situation that we find ourselves in. We are in the position now, where we can decide whether we want to stay in this universe or go to the new universe currently being seeded in order to start again. Fortunately our fate is in our hands. If we want to stay in this universe and explore the possibilities that will soon be open to us we have only to make that a conscious decision.

It requires only that we must let go of the negativity to which we have attached ourselves but this is not such a difficult task since the Governors are here now and will help us through the transition if we make the request for them to do so.

The reason that no other race has been able to identify the Governors is because they could not conceptualise their level of existance therefore have no frame of reference. Now that you have read this, you have the tools with which to conceptualise their being and if you decide to contact them to ask for assistance they will make themselves known to you.

The reason i have given you this information is because you are gifted with the rare combination of a mind which is open enough to entertain the concept whilst remaining sceptical enough to require your own evidence. This satisfies the need for self responsibility whilst giving you the options from which you can make an informed choice.

And just to give you another perspective, if it IS all a load of bollocks, wouldn't it make a good movie?

[branjo]

Good info there, and yes that part about the frequency coming from the black holes was a very interesting thing to hear. Well I hope we can all pull together to raise the spirit of the human being and that of Earth, cause its not like we have anything better to do with our lives lets face it.

Working 50 weeks out of the year for 2 weeks so you can forget about the last 50 weeks doesn't seem like a great way to spend the time we are given, or very productive.

Society has been utterly poisoned and is slowly dying in pointlessness. We need a direction and we need it yesterday.

Keep it up bro.

[filinfinland]

Good info there, and yes that part about the frequency coming from the black holes was a very interesting thing to hear. Well I hope we can all pull together to raise the spirit of the human being and that of Earth, cause its not like we have anything better to do with our lives lets face it.

Working 50 weeks out of the year for 2 weeks so you can forget about the last 50 weeks doesn't seem like a great way to spend the time we are given, or very productive.

Society has been utterly poisoned and is slowly dying in pointlessness. We need a direction and we need it yesterday.

Keep it up bro.
The medicine way is most clearly described as "a life lived in acknowledgement of the fact that all things are primarily spirit (consciousness) and that all spirit has the same origin (source consciousness)"

As "things" come into being they start at the lowest level of complexity (electrons). This structure is capable of expressing consciousness in only it's simplest form. As structures increase in complexity (atoms, molecules, compounds) they serve as the form through which source consciousness can express itself in greater complexity (broader spectrum). This principle is scaleable and can be applied to all structures ranging from atoms to universes to universal Cells (as described in my last post) to the Cellular Form which is itself a construct.

The importance of the forms we are currently inhabiting lies in the fact that they have been created by the genetic manipulation of 22 other races. These forms (earth humans, or terrans) are therefore the most complex forms in this universe and are, as a consequence, capable of expressing source consciousness to a higher level of complexity than any other form in this universe.

It is inaccurate to state that other races are more spiritually advanced than we are. It is more accurate to state that they are CURRENTLY expressing source consciousness to a higher degree of complexity.

Due to the complexity of the terran form, it has the POTENTIAL to express source consciousness in greater complexity than ANY OTHER FORM IN THIS UNIVERSE.

This is the key with which the pleiaedians can unlock themselves from their current karmic cycle. They, whilst considering themselves to be spiritually advanced, are still trapped (by their own choice) within the karmic mind. If, as a race, they can come to the point where they accept that they are merely children in a spiritual sense and that their actions, with regard to terrans, have been guided by beings whose existance they cannot even comprehend then they would be able to understand that they did nothing wrong and are therefore not subject to the karmic repurcussions of those actions.

The creation of the terran form has been planned for a long, long time and is the key to the ascension of the entire universe. These forms are now capable of supplying the genetic material to sustain and transform ALL OTHER FORMS IN THIS UNIVERSE. The degree of complexity which terran forms have the potential to express can be passed on to all other races (with the exception of the insectoid races) leading to a greater expression of source consciousness for ALL FORMS.

Do not concern yourself with the fate of humanity or of this earth. It is not your responsibility and you do not have the right. Your primary concern is to be personally responsible for your own ascension.

Society has not been poisoned, it has been engineered this way precisely to create the breadth of spectrum necessary for the creation of a new universe. Source consciousness does not make mistakes, there is nothing wrong, everything is precisley as it is meant to be.

Focus on yourself. Find within you your higher dimensional self, learn to identify with that and you will see, from that perspective, that all is as it should be.

The decision to ascend, or to re-start the cycle, will be made at the level of consciousness capable of comprehending the choice. The beings which appear to be trapped in this current reality are, like ALL BEINGS, multidimensional, and exist on all levels of reality. The key is the identity.

With what do you identify?. By choosing to identify with our higher dimensional self we can then make the decision to ascend or re-start the cycle and to be consciously aware of that as a reality within our current paradigm. The beings who decide to re-start the cycle will make that decision on a level of consciousness that they are not currently aware of, therefore it truely is a matter of free will. No-one will be forced or coerced into a decision, they will decide for themselves.

This does not mean that we should not try to help people to become aware since this is the very reason that a lot of us are here. More importantly, to do so would be to deny the very reason for all existance which is, to evolve as the means through which source consciousness can express itself in greater and greater complexity.

We all have our part to play and it is our responsibility to discover what that part is and to perform it to the best of our ability.

Hope this has been of some use.

[farros]

Ive been following Wilcock for around a year now and have nothing but respect for the guy. He's good and he knows he's good, he has a great balance of both cranial hemispheres, on one hand he's pulling up case study after case study, on the other he stops talking because he felt a psychic tug from a radio host. The good thing is he doesnt hold back by how things like this may sound.

Check out "davids blog" on his website theres tonnes of interviews, blogs on there... and the project camelot stuff.

He's done a few dodgy RA channelings which Im not too sure about, call it wilcoks reptilians if you like. Doesnt taint his overall message though.

[the moral man]

Dear Friends
kind regards
I was in performing arts/media classes for quite a few years and can tell a "media man" when I see one.
David Wilcock wants to be a celebrity and launch a career in Hollywood.
In order for a man like Wilcock to get his career under way, he has to generate the money as talent must pay for itself to get a firm place in the entertainment.
So Wilcock comes up with any BIG claim that he can, such as being the reincarnation of Edgar Cayce and talks about everyone becoming Lightbodies in 2012 to generate as much money as he can.
Naturally we will not "burst into Light" in 2012, but Wilcock will try to Ascend from obscurity to Hollywood by that time.
Wilcock is talking about his aim to be a Shining Star (celebrity) by 2012 and that is his real goal of talking about the Mayan calendar.
It is best not to buy into what this guy says so that you won't be dissapointed when none of it comes to pass.
The alternative media is filled with celebrity wannabes and money makers.
I only trust The Author of the Matrix V trilogy and David Icke's material.
yours thankfully
John

[les_paul_robot]

Hi Moral Man,
I've read before how you feel about Wilcox. I feel you are a bit harsh on him. It is not inconceivable that he is an incarnation of Cayce. It would be difficult to prove or disprove. Even if that were a load of rubbish, other things he says are not. For instance, pointing out the significance of pine cones, and pine cones in the Vatican. 2012 will see some big changes in our lives here on earth, there is no question about this.
If he really wanted to be an actor I'm sure there are more straightforward routes in going about it.
We all know here that major religions are a con, BUT they do contain universal truths and thus we shouldn't throw the baby out with the bath water, and I think you should apply that to Wilcox and other authors you have suspicions about.

[the moral man]

Dear les_paul_robot
kind regards
In response to your comments.

I've read before how you feel about Wilcox. I feel you are a bit harsh on him.

Its not a matter of being harsh. I am just sick of people talking like they care about us when all they are doing is trying to take our money.
I also went through a number of years in performing arts/media classes and can tell that Wilcock fits the description of the misfits that I used to be around.

It is not inconceivable that he is an incarnation of Cayce. It would be difficult to prove or disprove. Even if that were a load of rubbish, other things he says are not. For instance, pointing out the significance of pine cones, and pine cones in the Vatican. 2012 will see some big changes in our lives here on earth, there is no question about this.

If Wilcock really believed that he was the reincarnation of Edgar Cayce why would he state it publically?
He is just using this allegation as a tool to make himself a bigger name and to make money.
Much of what Wilcock says is just fluff, including this assinine idea that Obama is on our side.
I don't think that anything will happen in 2012.

If he really wanted to be an actor I'm sure there are more straightforward routes in going about it.

Not really, the cost of going to acting school is expensive and they are not going to give him an acting role anyway.
Wilcock is cleverly trying to become a singer and movie director to worm his way in through the back door and establish himself as another Hollywood powermonger.
I feel that Wilcock is just a pie in the sky dreamer who will have the door of Hollywood slammed in his face.

We all know here that major religions are a con, BUT they do contain universal truths and thus we shouldn't throw the baby out with the bath water, and I think you should apply that to Wilcox and other authors you have suspicions about.

Very true.
The problem is that with the exception of two people in the alternative media I have yet to come across anyone that is credible.
You are free to believe whatever you want to though and thats your right.
Where people like Wilcock are concern, look at how they live their lives in the face of their ideology and that will show you who they really are.
yours thankfully
John

[farros]

Dear Friends
kind regards
I was in performing arts/media classes for quite a few years and can tell a "media man" when I see one.
David Wilcock wants to be a celebrity and launch a career in Hollywood.
In order for a man like Wilcock to get his career under way, he has to generate the money as talent must pay for itself to get a firm place in the entertainment.
So Wilcock comes up with any BIG claim that he can, such as being the reincarnation of Edgar Cayce and talks about everyone becoming Lightbodies in 2012 to generate as much money as he can.
Naturally we will not "burst into Light" in 2012, but Wilcock will try to Ascend from obscurity to Hollywood by that time.
Wilcock is talking about his aim to be a Shining Star (celebrity) by 2012 and that is his real goal of talking about the Mayan calendar.
It is best not to buy into what this guy says so that you won't be dissapointed when none of it comes to pass.
The alternative media is filled with celebrity wannabes and money makers.
I only trust The Author of the Matrix V trilogy and David Icke's material.
yours thankfully
John


Have you considered the reason he wants to be famous is so more people will recieve his message?

Ive heard nearly all his radio interviews and I dont think he would be out to con people when he's clearly aware of his own spirituality and how deceit and lies, will ultimatly be of detriment to him. He knows it.

If people beleive in his lightbody theory and nothing happens in 2012, let that be a lesson to THEM and there own folly.

Yes he has an ego, he is only human. He is like Icke, and is doing what he can to open minds.

[branjo]

Your in a sense absolutely right but its not a very broadminded look at his reasons, now I am 100% with you in the sense that we shouldn't "idolize" anyone because it takes away from us and gives to another when we need that adoration for ourselves, not in the "oh look at me I am wonderful" way but more like the "why should I look at anyone as more wonderful than myself" way, if that makes sense.

With regards to Wilcock I do find myself raising an eyebrow when the Cayce stuff is mentioned and the knowledge that apparently Cayce is claimed by more than enough people to be the lives they were prior to this one doesn't bode well for anyone claiming it.

There is no doubt that David Wilcock has a somewhat inflated ego, but in another sense the guy is rubbing shoulders with a lot of people that are idolizing him and that has to be a hard thing to stop going to your head. But aside from that he does extremely good research and quite a lot of it is undeniable in conclusion, I like his approach on the importance of the pineal gland and its importance.

Money is a big alarm bell that goes off in our minds when we are judging a person, that is a very poignant factor there is no doubt, like when I see someone like Alex Jones deliver knowledge in the form of anger whilst making an absolute killing it annoys the hell out of me, because I see that yes a lot of what he says is true but the direction his work is pointing in is a pretty good recipe for "resetting" the clock, its not going to "fix" the problems. There is no point in making American people feel good about being American again because that's what fueled the attitude that they are better than the rest of the world. I am not American but I live in America and I fecking love it here, I don't care for the Government (who could) but as land goes? Its utterly breath taking, and hardly anyone gets to see it or even cares to see it. I am digressing here so back to the point.

Wilcock may be making a lot of money but there is a very real occurrence in the Universe called the power of attraction, that if you project progression of the soul or consciousness whatever you wanna call it then the rewards come in many ways, and if money is sought honestly to further that knowledge then how do we know he is not making money for doing the right thing in life, its not concrete but the possibility is still there.

Your right it doesn't seem like a great thing when someone is preaching love and harmony and they are living a Beverly hills lifestyle eating the best food etc, and the people who are buying the product or information in books and CD's are basically scrimping and saving to do so. Its quite shitty in fact, but its only shitty when we are the ones scrimping, Sometimes people don't know what the meaning of $25 is when your broke, to them its pocket change to someone else its diner for a hungry family, I don't know if we have the right to tell someone not to make money out of something that is pointing the reader or listener to a better state of mind or reality, and I have done it myself with Icke, I got pissed for a while that he goes around the world making a ton of cash at writing books and appearances but then It dawned on me, that without the money how is someone who is actually talking about truth going to be heard, in a world were the means to communicate is decided by money.

Wilcock will go for the "everything is going to be alright" approach full on, but inherently if more people thought that then it is an actual probability that it might just work, I mean he is not telling you to ignore the Illuminati or the Banking cartels or occult societies either, just to always put yourself above it and keep you head and connection to other things.

But as Farros said the channeled stuff does again make one of my eyebrows go up and I get the bullshit detector needle start to flutter but I still for the life of me can't say with any sense of certainty that it is indeed bullshit, because someone has to be able to do it so why not him? Someone also has to be Edgar Cayce, so why not him?

Its something I have thought about and it made me think, I do very much believe that reincarnation is real, but I don't assume that if an extremely intelligent and spiritual person dies that they will reincarnate as "one person" again, could it be that its possible, and as Bill Hicks would say...."open your mind real wide now", that many peoples incarnations could be a mixture of many souls. Somewhere in my head I think that's how consciousness works, you get as knowledgeable as you can and when you reach the limit for the form you take for the life you have been choosing, then you are kind of "used" as an ingredient in the areas of consciousness that need it. So if reincarnation is an absolute, couldn't a lot of people actually be Cayce or Jesus or Buddha, why do all the best people get taken in their prime? Maybe because the Universe declares them ripe enough to be added into the mix of consciousness, it doesn't matter how they were taken ie killed and such. i see it as them being plucked.

It does seem to be a factor that good information makes money though, Icke, Jones, Tsarion, Lipton, Haramein all seem to have a high price for the privilege of their knowledge. Even a good book on Buddha will still cost you an arm and a leg..lol and that is weird in itself.

Wilcock does want to get a movie made and he has made no secret out of it but the movie he wants made is not the kind of movie that Hollywood wants to make, because what good to them is a movie that makes the world seem like a brighter place to exist, unlike this up and coming 2012 movie which going by the awesome special effects will turn out to be the biggest pile of shit regarding truth on the subject of 2012 yet.
It looks like they have just spent a few weeks on YouTube on the subject of 2012 and put together the movie that they think people expect to see, which is the world ending..lol.

Again when it comes to the nitty gritty its the old saying, "Only believe it if it resonates good with you", no one can take you the whole way to your understanding of truth, its like hitchhiking, when the drivers destination is taking you to much off course to where you need to go, then you get out and stick your thumb out again.

I like Wilcock, but I still wouldn't sign myself up for a life time commitment either, ya know?

[filinfinland]

I think it is not necessary to believe david wilcock, fortunately due to the internet it is not necessary to pay him either.

The most important thing he has done with regards to edgar cayce is to raise public awareness about his having existed.

There is a small book (therefore cheap too) called "edgar cayce on atlantis". I found this a fasinating read and found that it contains some information which, accurate or not can certainly shed some light on our current situation

He states that there were two political/belief structures, the "sons of belial" and the "sons of the law of one" the fighting between these two camps contributed to the atlantean destruction.

essentially the differences in the beliefs was this. A slave race (probably close to the origins of our current forms) was created, "the sons of belial" regarded these slaves as "things" with which they could do as they please.

"The sons of the law of one" believed that all forms were an expession of the one source consciousness and should be treated as equals.

This is the essence of the situation we are in today. We see the systems around us collapsing and the gap between rich and poor expanding due to the few taking so much from the many only to discard them when they are of no further use.

People are being treated as "things"

We are being faced with the same choice now as they (we) had in atlantis. Do we treat others as "things" or people. Do we accept the FACT that all forms (ourselves included) are expressions of source consciousness and act towards them accordingly or do we continue with the illusion of separation and hierarchy and treat others as things.

This question is a no brainer for anyone who disagrees with the current world system since it should be obvious that a hierarchical system is the very mechanism that bought us to where we are now.

This is just my own perspective but it seems to me that our reality is being polarised in many aspects. Our choices are being made simple.

Spirituality or materialism.Ascenscion or decline. Treat all others (humans, animals, trees, the planet etc ) as people or things. The choice is ours (again)

[the moral man]

Dear farros
kind regards
In response to your comments.

Have you considered the reason he wants to be famous is so more people will recieve his message?

Oh c'mon now.
No one wants to be famous for anyone else's benefit other than their own.

Ive heard nearly all his radio interviews and I dont think he would be out to con people when he's clearly aware of his own spirituality and how deceit and lies, will ultimatly be of detriment to him. He knows it.

Benny Hinn preaches that if people are greedy and deceptive that they will go to hell when they die, does that stop him from living like a King and obtaining money from poor people?
You have a black and white way of looking at things in this regard because materialism is like a drug and some people cannot help chasing it.
When a person wants money, they will say literally ANYTHING they can to get as much of it as possible.
David Wilcock is a materialist and hence he cannot serve two masters regardless of the virtue that he preaches.

If people beleive in his lightbody theory and nothing happens in 2012, let that be a lesson to THEM and there own folly.

Yes you are quite correct about that.
The fact that is that both a deceiver and the deceived are both in the wrong, ultimately it is a case of one is wrong and the other is wronged.
I thought that the 2012 Ascension was a possibility untill I read the Matrix V trilogy earlier this year.
M5 completely pulls apart the myth of the Ascension in every respect.

Yes he has an ego, he is only human. He is like Icke, and is doing what he can to open minds.

David Icke is a genuinely good person though, one of the only decent guys in the alternative media.
The alternative media attracts parasites who are only interested in tapping into niche because there is a lot of money to be made.
I was in acting/media circles for years and can see a phoney drama queen when I see one.
yours thankfully
John

[branjo]

Have you yourself watched any of Wilcock's lectures?

[the moral man]

Have you yourself watched any of Wilcock's lectures?

Dear branjo
kind regards
I remember watching the 2012 enigma last year and was impressed with it.
when I look back on that documentary, it was just an impressive money making ploy.
I am not impressed with Wilcock or his grandiose promises.
yours thankfully
John

[branjo]

I hear what you are saying, but people like to go to these things and they don't mind paying either. Myself I can get most of what I want of the internet, as do we all but there are still some people I wouldn't mind paying to see myself. I don't see everything that makes money as a scam anymore, I used to, but the people who do it for free and for the good of mankind just plain don't get heard.

What Wilcock is saying is very out there lol I won't say its not, but how much do you think consciousness plays a part in our reality? I take most channel'ers with a grain of salt myself, I think everyone shouldn't just wade on in their and stake the future on one persons interpretation of it, ya know.

But you have to judge each person individually and its getting really hard to do. I mean what exactly do you disagree with he says?, or is it a clash of personalities type of thing. The Cayce stuff is in fact for me too, just a little outside my reach of believability also, but I don't focus on it either.

What do you mean by "his grandiose promises"?, like the dimensional shift?

[les_paul_robot]

Very true.
The problem is that with the exception of two people in the alternative media I have yet to come across anyone that is credible.
You are free to believe whatever you want to though and thats your right.
Where people like Wilcock are concern, look at how they live their lives in the face of their ideology and that will show you who they really are.
yours thankfully
JohnDear John, I would be interested to hear what you think of this man over on the thread here http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=71874

[branjo]

Dear John, I would be interested to hear what you think of this man over on the thread here http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=71874

What I want to know is how F' did I miss this guy?

I am on 5/6 and I am being literally blown away.

LPR your a diamond in the rough, my friend.

Thank you.

[hank_scorpio]

http://educate-yourself.org/cn/projectbluebeam25jul05.shtml

What if somebody thought they were channeling and didn't realize it was mind control.

[arty2000]

Dear John, I would be interested to hear what you think of this man over on the thread here http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=71874

I saw this a while back and this guy really resonated with me:)

[the moral man]

Dear branjo
kind regards
In response to your comments

I hear what you are saying, but people like to go to these things and they don't mind paying either.

Well people spend their money on alot of rubbish nowadays, if it isn't celebrity trinkets then they are buying into this talk of the 2012 Ascension.

Myself I can get most of what I want of the internet, as do we all but there are still some people I wouldn't mind paying to see myself. I don't see everything that makes money as a scam anymore, I used to, but the people who do it for free and for the good of mankind just plain don't get heard.

I get what you are saying.
There is nothing wrong with paying for information if it genuine and benefits you.
I paid a significent amount to purchase the Matrix V trilogy, it was good decision.

What Wilcock is saying is very out there lol I won't say its not, but how much do you think consciousness plays a part in our reality? I take most channel'ers with a grain of salt myself, I think everyone shouldn't just wade on in their and stake the future on one persons interpretation of it, ya know.

What are saying is neither here nor there as far as Wilcock is concerned, the guy basically takes information from others and combines it all to formulate his own opinions.

But you have to judge each person individually and its getting really hard to do. I mean what exactly do you disagree with he says?, or is it a clash of personalities type of thing.

I don't agree with much of what he says and yes it is a clash of personalities because he gets on my nerves.

The Cayce stuff is in fact for me too, just a little outside my reach of believability also, but I don't focus on it either.

Actually you should focus on it because it is another Wilcock ploy to get attention through making a grandiose statement.

What do you mean by "his grandiose promises"?, like the dimensional shift?

Yes, the Ascension theory is pure hogwash and a money making scam.
When I went into WHSmith and Waterstones today I came across by books Dolores Cannon, Diana Cooper and Drunvalo Melchezedek about the Ascension.
The Ascension theory is a brand of spiritual commercialism at its very worst.
These people are merely cashing in whilst they can and the suckers are falling for it left, right and centre.
Wilcock and his fellow Ascension metaphysics are no better than TV Evangelists.
yours thankfully
John

[branjo]

So is there anything that you do believe in?

[the moral man]

So is there anything that you do believe in?

Dear branjo
kind regards
I believe that our Higher Self sends down strands of itself simultaneously to undergo and collect different experiences, advance as a result of those experiences and then graduate.
yours thankfully
John

[branjo]

Then isn't that advancement a form of ascension too?, ie to ascend to a higher understanding?

[the moral man]

Then isn't that advancement a form of ascension too?, ie to ascend to a higher understanding?

Dear branjo
kind regards
Yes you are correct.
The Ascension to the fourth dimension is flawed on many levels.
1. The problem with the New Age movement Ascension is the fact that they are talking about making a planet in a Dark sector of the galaxy a Lightsider paradise.
There are planets on both sectors of the galaxy and we are in the Dark sector, this cannot be changed.
2. The New Agers talk about a change from the physical body to a Lightbody.
You can't just burst into Light and the 12 strand DNA were with us before the Orion empire started to tamper with the physical body, again this cannot be changed.
3. The fourth dimension is in the Astral and the individual strands (lifetimes) go there upon death, therefore the New Ascension is possible if lots of people die in 2012.
The whole Ascension concept is flawed, no one is going to the fifth dimension just for our own lofty convienience.
Your Higher Self put your Incarnational strands for experience and has no intention of taking you out of circulation until you have gotten the experiences that you need.
Forget people like Wilcock, he cannot talk for your Higher Self.
Even IF the majority Ascends (dies) to go the fourth dimension, if your Higher Self has decided that you will remain here, then you shall remain here.
Again, people like you are decent and well meaning people who give your power away.
The Game has ways to get you to give your power away, either to a religious man like the Pope, secular gods (celebrities) and New Agers like Wilcock.
Bear in mind that you are always being pushed to listen to something else with the exception of your Inner self.
You need to trust in your Higher Self and not the money makers of the World like Woodendick.
yours thankfully
John

[branjo]

That's also quite an assumption to think you know those things too. Sounds exactly like new ager stuff also, and this is exactly why people need to learn no one has any one elses answers, not you, me or Wilcock. All I hear in your post is quite a lot of aggravation and negativity, and yet on another day I could be doing the same thing. You may see your particular line of thinking as truth and that may be so "for you", but you cannot expect that to be someone else's truth either.

I mean you are not going to say that another persons views or beliefs are irrelevant because your way is the only way are you?

By claiming to know what the 4th Dimension is from a 3rd Dimensional viewpoint can't exactly be taken as unquestionable fact either.

Some questions relating to your points,
1. What makes you think this planet is in a Dark sector of the galaxy?
2. And you also know this how? you are saying they can't while some are saying they can, ultimately whats the difference, apart from you thinking you are right and they are wrong.
3. You say Wilcock can not talk for your higher self and to be honest I have never seen him do this, but you are also doing the same thing as you accuse him of, I think at best you could only express these things for yourself, or your own higher self. You can't possibly know anything other than that. So can you concur that what ever your higher self is telling you intuitively, can only be right for you and no other?

I think you personally have developed quite a pessimistic view of things. Your contempt for Wilcock may be justified but justified only from your own point of view. People do not see things the exact same way ever, so where I cannot tell you whats right for you, then how can you possibly tell someone else what is right for them?

Even the concept of a higher power was introduced to you as much as anyone else, it doesn't matter if the realization came from a video of someone talking about it or it was read in a book, the information still came to you and to all of us from an seemingly "outside" source. From there we all developed an opinion of it, sure we all knew some part of ourselves was making the correct decisions for us when the situation called for it, but it didn't have a name until someone gave it to us.

My point being that people of all types are trying to help each other, and while that is commendable there are none that can take the individual to the destination that needs to be traveled. You can hitch a ride for some of the way but ultimately you are always on your own journey.

I personally have no doubt that Wilcock believes in what he is doing, sure he may be caught up in the ego side of it and that he believes he is doing good yet that is not for me to say.
Not one of us in this forum or world for that matter is under any illusions that there are people that are trying to trick us. There are some really nasty people to avoid, but no matter how nasty there will always be something you can relate too. Now the tricky part comes from discerning the intent behind such things, intent is everything, neither actions or things that are said can directly correlate every single time to the intentions. We can try to do good and it just doesn't turn out that way, like a child playing and knocking over an expensive ornament, the result is far worse than the intention. So should you judge that child on the action of the broken ornament or realize it didn't mean to do it by intention. Judging people is no different, and we all judge, but how harshly we judge people reflects directly on ourselves.

I like I have said I do not take Wilcock to be the absolute truth to anything, I enjoy is research aside from his spirituality because his spirituality is just that, "his". I don't fundamentally disagree with it, I just know that its not going to answer my own particular questions. All I can do is listen and make up my own mind about things. I don't ask you questions because I don't know my own answers, I ask you questions because I don't understand your answers.

No one needs to be told to trust their higher self, not one person on this globe is under any illusions about that either, they all have a part of them they know they must trust, and that has got nothing to do with knowledge of any particular subject that we may be dealing with here.

Of course some can be fooled into giving their power away but if a person is content and safe in the knowledge that they are indeed responsible for the things they either believe or disbelieve then there is no wrong way, and it doesn't matter if mistakes are made with those beliefs, they are there to be learned from regardless.

Now I don't necessarily disagree with you that everyone will burst into beings of light and ascend into other dimensions, I think of course we choose to be here and we choose to be here because we are experiencing what we need to experience. But without all conscious past memories how do we know when we have reached the point when we could say ok we are done? Bottom line is you can't because that decision most probably isn't up to us or our higher self, because it is a decision of the entirety of consciousness ie the whole, the one, god, the divine to make. Yes we are a part of that whole but at the minute we are not one mind, and we are not one mind for good reasons, what those reasons are will probably remain a mystery for a long time to come.

If your down on Wilcock then that is solely an issue for you and no one else, assuming that you are ahead of another person in the sense of truth or knowledge, isn't taking a step forward its more like a step backwards impo.

I used to make up my mind and declare things were how I saw them, but experience taught me that everything is in a constant state of change, I am only too well aware of my intuitive self and what I tell my self is undoubtedly right for me at any given time. It may lead me into mistakes but that doesn't necessarily mean that I was wrong to make those mistakes.

The game as you call it is known to the entire planet, not one single person is unaware of it, not one. They may think of it differently and they may call it another name but neither you nor I or anyone is aware of something more truthful than anyone else. The presumption of intelligence is what is basically separating everyone, its just the ego getting wrapped up in itself, and we all do that from time to time.

The only thing I can claim to know "for myself" is that no matter what the person is saying that I am watching, reading or speaking to, I am completely in control and completely responsible for how I interpret that information, and I have no one to blame or praise for what comes from it. but as of late the intention that I try my best to have is that of a positive one. I am still not immune to be drawn into an argument for time to time but its not something I go consciously looking for.

With aware people being afraid to be called "sheeple" they are certainly starting to take on the characteristics of them, by that I mean that to be distrustful of people and certain belief systems is in itself a locked mindset. There are people that take the density of this reality and deem it an illusion simply because there is the talk of another one above it. Does that mean we have to relinquish responsibility for how we conduct ourselves in this density?

Everyone has an opinion and every opinion is 100% correct for that individual. No one is going to believe in something that doesn't feel right, even if that belief is so contrary to the direction they want to go in, the purpose is still there, the lesson still needs to be learned. What lessons you learn with any aspect of any knowledge may or may not be the lesson that I learn through mine.

So if you yourself have gone beyond that which Wilcock believes then why are you hung up with an negative opinion of him, why can't you just say that you don't believe and you have migrated to another particular belief and say bon voyage to him or his way of thinking, instead of attacking his character, which is undoubtedly just the other side of the coin to someone else liking him.

An analogy I would use and what my own wife just doesn't seem to get :rolleyes:..lol, is that of someone cutting you off at an intersection and as you are traveling in different directions, why carry the annoyance of that action when the person who did it is already miles away on a different road to you? Whats the point in looking over your shoulder and cursing someone, when the road ahead is what you should be focusing on. There is absolutely no need to carry that negativity with you because the other person is blissfully unaware they did anything wrong. If they didn't intend to cut you off then they deserve no ill feelings because of it, and if they did intend to cut you off then chances are they will soon know what it feels like and a large lesson could be ahead of them regarding it.

So why carry that negativity around? It is just excess baggage.

[cosmicswing]

You have a good point. But have you heard his channeling of Ra?.......!

[branjo]

Yeah it's fucking weird, I won't deny that....lol. :D

[gooseone]

This video is probably already posted somewhere on the forum but i can't resist to post it here
DAVID WILCOCK at the Project Camelot Awake and Aware Conference, Los Angeles, Sept 2009 - YouTube

I can imagine why David and Nassim work together well as posted in the Nassim thread.

I don't very much care where this guy is coming from , i don't accept anything
as a "truth" these days but his work just tickles me in the right places :D