Was Lucifer Trying to Save Humanity? Yes.

[metacomet]

Physical reality is an illusion. We operate in this illusion, not knowing that is illusion. Therefore we fear death and pain - we are slaves to illusion.

The only way to end our slavery is to attain knowledge. This is a fundamental truth. Knowledge dissolves illusion like light dissolves darkness.



The Old Testament creation myth has been dissected so many times. I am now starting to realize one of the most startling theories.

This physical world and all within are illusion. The master of this reality and this dimension is NOT the holy creator or the all-is. This physical reality and dimension is another form of separation from God, another form of 'hell' and it is our destiny to escape it. We have been given instructions for this process of escape many times , from the Buddha, from Christ and possibly from Lucifer himself.


Is Lucifer a slandered character in history? Maybe so!

I believe true evil exists - and that the truest evil is illusion.

If the masters of this reality wanted to keep us in illusion, they would condemn and vilify anyone trying to break us free from illusion.

I believe Lucifer was not 'Satan' but was actually another savior entity, like Buddha and Christ.

Lucifer made the great mistake of giving Human beings 'knowledge'. Forbidden knowledge.

Now why on Earth would a benevolent creator God want to keep his children from knowledge? Because the Old Gods were not of the holy spirit . Just as this physical reality is not of the holy spirit . The 'Elohim' and this reality they have trapped us in are DENSE and of LOW VIBRATION - they have always and will always manipulate us to keep us in this same dense vibration. Any knowledge passed towards humanity which can free us from this reality prism is FORBIDDEN and is almost always perverted in the form of organized religion.


Lucifer was the first savior to humanity. He is now painted as the ultimate villain - 'You stay away from that BAD MAN! Stick to what you KNOW!' Said the Elohim.



I was born and raised Christian. To come to these conclusions is not necessarily 'easy' but many others have come to it before me and it makes perfect sense to me.


The Old Gods were not the true great spirit. They were our slave masters. They are still around. They ground us to this illusory reality and forbid us from attaining knowledge that can free us.


Lucifer was not the embodiment of evil. He was a servant of the Old Gods who grew what we call a 'conscience' and attempted to save us.

Lucifers payment from history is to be painted as the ultimate villain to humanity.

The Old Gods and the Old Testament are part of an effort to maintain a massive reality hoax.

[metacomet]

But Metacomet! How can Lucifer and Christ be brothers of the same cause?

Didn't Lucifer tempt Christ in the desert?


Absolutely not. Christ was tempted by the servants of the Old Gods - demons. Demons still exist and serve the great beast. The great beast is this illusory dimension. It is a massive hoax and many agents serve to maintain it. I believe Christ was tempted by agents of the beast to convince him that there was no saving humanity from physicality.

The true Lucifer or morning star would have been right by Jesus Christ' side - this is a thought far too revolutionary for most to accept. But all truth is revolutionary.

[belial]

Physical reality is an illusion. We operate in this illusion, not knowing that is illusion. Therefore we fear death and pain - we are slaves to illusion.

The only way to end our slavery is to attain knowledge. This is a fundamental truth. Knowledge dissolves illusion like light dissolves darkness.



The Old Testament creation myth has been dissected so many times. I am now starting to realize one of the most startling theories.

This physical world and all within are illusion. The master of this reality and this dimension is NOT the holy creator or the all-is. This physical reality and dimension is another form of separation from God, another form of 'hell' and it is our destiny to escape it. We have been given instructions for this process of escape many times , from the Buddha, from Christ and possibly from Lucifer himself.


Is Lucifer a slandered character in history? Maybe so!

I believe true evil exists - and that the truest evil is illusion.

If the masters of this reality wanted to keep us in illusion, they would condemn and vilify anyone trying to break us free from illusion.

I believe Lucifer was not 'Satan' but was actually another savior entity, like Buddha and Christ.

Lucifer made the great mistake of giving Human beings 'knowledge'. Forbidden knowledge.

Now why on Earth would a benevolent creator God want to keep his children from knowledge? Because the Old Gods were not of the holy spirit . Just as this physical reality is not of the holy spirit . The 'Elohim' and this reality they have trapped us in are DENSE and of LOW VIBRATION - they have always and will always manipulate us to keep us in this same dense vibration. Any knowledge passed towards humanity which can free us from this reality prism is FORBIDDEN and is almost always perverted in the form of organized religion.


Lucifer was the first savior to humanity. He is now painted as the ultimate villain - 'You stay away from that BAD MAN! Stick to what you KNOW!' Said the Elohim.



I was born and raised Christian. To come to these conclusions is not necessarily 'easy' but many others have come to it before me and it makes perfect sense to me.


The Old Gods were not the true great spirit. They were our slave masters. They are still around. They ground us to this illusory reality and forbid us from attaining knowledge that can free us.


Lucifer was not the embodiment of evil. He was a servant of the Old Gods who grew what we call a 'conscience' and attempted to save us.

Lucifers payment from history is to be painted as the ultimate villain to humanity.

The Old Gods and the Old Testament are part of an effort to maintain a massive reality hoax.

Interesting post ;)

What is your opinion on Belial being the father of Lucifer?

According to the New Testament, the real 'Satan' was in actual fact Belial, not Lucifer.

"What harmony is there between Christ and Belial? What does a believer have in common with an unbeliever?" (2 Cor 6:15).

[hengist]

Metacomet,
If you believe that physical reality is an illusion, then you can prove it by defying physical laws, can you not? But if you are unable to do so, as you know full well, then all you have is a BELIEF, which cannot be demonstrated, and therefore, is......WORTHLESS!

[metacomet]

What is your opinion on Belial being the father of Lucifer?

My opinion is that most information regarding Lucifer is tainted. Including where he came from, which deities he is a part of etc.


According to the New Testament, the real 'Satan' was in actual fact Belial, not Lucifer.

I believe the real enemy of mankind is this illusory reality - the Beast. The Beast consumes energy and separates matter from spirit - producing what we know as 'evil'. There must be a primeval source for this consciousness and I would not be surprised if Belial was another name for that.

The Beast is most likely a known ultra-dimensional entity and was probably given a name at some point. It's existence and the nature of the reality it has us in is now considered occult knowledge.

[orbandsceptre27]

Hi Metacomet - An interesting post. I just wanted to ask where did you get this information from - as in did you read it/receive insights meditating/ or psychedelics of some kind?

[metacomet]

Metacomet,
If you believe that physical reality is an illusion, then you can prove it by defying physical laws, can you not?

My soul inhabits a physical body in this physical dimension. I cannot with this physical body, deny the laws of this physical dimension. However, being a multi-dimensional being (like all Humans) I exist above and beyond the physical and can overcome it in countless ways. The basic practice of this we call 'survival'. The advanced practice of overcoming physical reality with the spirit is called transcendentalism.

Humanity is at an enormous gap between basic survival and transcendentalism. This is why you challenge me to overcome laws of physics using a physical body. The concept of metaphysics has to deal with this.

No matter what my beliefs, I cannot swim through the air or fly in this dimension. The existence of other dimensions (i.e. Heaven) where such things are possible has been kept from myself and others. The method to attaining that dimension and overcoming this physical reality has also been withheld.

Those attempting to teach us these things have been punished and we ourselves punished for listening.


There is no escaping this reality or defying it's laws unless my consciousness leaves this physical dimension and this material body. The methods of doing this, apart from actually dying, are transcendental meditation and other forms of dimensional travel.

Anyone attempting to teach me or fellow humans how to leave this dimension through the above mentioned methods will either be murdered, slandered, sacrificed, or their teachings will be purposefully washed out and mis-translated. All of the above has already happened to more than one person. The first person in history that we are aware of doing this is Lucifer.

[cruise4]

Good post metacomet

[metacomet]

Hi Metacomet - An interesting post. I just wanted to ask where did you get this information from - as in did you read it/receive insights meditating/ or psychedelics of some kind?

Reading! I was going through John Rhodes description of the old Gods when I got the urge to make this thread.

The Old Gods or Elohim have been found out countless times ...

They created us and kept us from knowledge - this is a cosmic crime. The holy spirit circumvented this crime by producing fruits of knowledge - which I believe were psychedelics! Psychedelic substances are vehicles for multi-dimensional information!

Humanity was encouraged by the morning star to explore it's consciousness by eating the fruit. When our consciousness expanded the old Gods were infuriated and Lucifer was politically and historically assassinated. This is why the the Old Testament God told Adam and Eve they would be made to hate the serpent.

'You stay away from that bad man! His knowledge is forbidden to you!'

'You stay away from those ICKY- consciousness expanding drugs! Get a job!'

It is the same exact theme and the same evil forces attempting to hold us back from discovering our multi-dimensional nature.

[belial]

My opinion is that most information regarding Lucifer is tainted. Including where he came from, which deities he is a part of etc.



I believe the real enemy of mankind is this illusory reality - the Beast. The Beast consumes energy and separates matter from spirit - producing what we know as 'evil'. There must be a primeval source for this consciousness and I would not be surprised if Belial was another name for that.

The Beast is most likely a known ultra-dimensional entity and was probably given a name at some point. It's existence and the nature of the reality it has us in is now considered occult knowledge.

I agree with you there.

IMO, humanity has always felt the need to label what it doesn't fully understand. Hence phrases like 'Satan', 'The Beast', 'Evil'.

You mentioned:

"The Beast consumes energy and separates matter from spirit - producing what we know as 'evil'."

I would consider this energy as negative energy. Again, 'Evil' is a label that would be used to describe this negative energy by the majority of people.

[metacomet]

By the way orbandscepter you brought up psychedellics.

I have verified that my soul exists beyond the physical dimension with meditation. This is the purpose of transcendentalism I believe. Wake people up to the fact that they have a spirit and material reality is not all there is.

Psychedelics bring people to the same conclusion but in a violent way - it thrusts the person into an experience where the ego dissolves and other dimensions bleed into awareness.

I have plenty of experience with psychs but they are like dreams. Hard to bring back and explain.

I do remember feeling once that I was trespassing into the backstage of reality. This is where extra-dimensional beings are observing us and maintaining our physical reality. I believe these are gigantic entities - 'oversouls' as they were known to the Vedic scholars and throughout occult history. These oversouls do not want us to wake up. They are real and I believe Lucifer and others have fought to free us from their grasp.

When we step outside the ego and the physical body with psychedelics these beings watch us. Like children who drowsily stumble out of their bedroom for a glass of water we are easily re-directed to our nice comfortable beds and told to go back to sleep. And we do. All the time.

If we make it clear that we are trying to wake up, we might even be yelled at or chastised. Or killed.

This is why psychedelics are a touchy subject. Spirituality and religion as well. They are taboo for a reason.

The oversouls do not want us to wake up.

[xpleet]

There is a saying that "Satan", the demiurge has many names. And so he has many faces also. It is he who play-fakes to be the creator and the destroyer, the rewarder and the punisher. He plays the biblical lamb who pretends to be light but is false.

Many who realize that they are slave and prisoner inside this reality, enter right after that just another trap. They think their mission is now to gain maximum knowledge of everything. This is false and suites the demiurge and it's agents as they control the stream of information, with little exception.

It is becoming more and more obvious to those who break their ignorance, that this reality will soon not even exist anymore. Evacuation from this realm is a process that is independant from knowledge. It depends on the spiritual side a being has chosen. Those who chose the dark-side will hold on to the illusion and to as much power as they can get, refusing themselves to be liberated and will dissipate with the illusion, for they have become part of it.
It is therefore critically important for a true-being to defy the dark-side, which is like a parasite that will stick to the true-light and try to drag down with it all that is good and pure.
Those who understand this can ask for help from the highest force and it will be given and they will know that the light loves them.

[orbandsceptre27]

By the way orbandscepter you brought up psychedellics.

I have verified that my soul exists beyond the physical dimension with meditation. This is the purpose of transcendentalism I believe. Wake people up to the fact that they have a spirit and material reality is not all there is.

Psychedelics bring people to the same conclusion but in a violent way - it thrusts the person into an experience where the ego dissolves and other dimensions bleed into awareness.

I have plenty of experience with psychs but they are like dreams. Hard to bring back and explain.

I do remember feeling once that I was trespassing into the backstage of reality. This is where extra-dimensional beings are observing us and maintaining our physical reality. I believe these are gigantic entities - 'oversouls' as they were known to the Vedic scholars and throughout occult history. These oversouls do not want us to wake up. They are real and I believe Lucifer and others have fought to free us from their grasp.

When we step outside the ego and the physical body with psychedelics these beings watch us. Like children who drowsily stumble out of their bedroom for a glass of water we are easily re-directed to our nice comfortable beds and told to go back to sleep. And we do. All the time.

If we make it clear that we are trying to wake up, we might even be yelled at or chastised. Or killed.

This is why psychedelics are a touchy subject. Spirituality and religion as well. They are taboo for a reason.

The oversouls do not want us to wake up.

I`ve been outide my physical body too Metacomet. I felt so light when I came back, literally, was an awesome experience.

I haven`t taken psychedelics but have been looking into dmt and ayahuasca, so maybe down the road I`ll try them.

Your thoughts on Lucifer are very interesting and you may indeed be right. I`m reading Matthew Deloozes "Is it me for a Moment - Breaking the Serpents Spell," and finding it fascinating.

I think meditation is one of the great tools we have - As you said we can transcend the veils of illusion the deeper we go.

[metacomet]

I think meditation is one of the great tools we have - As you said we can transcend the veils of illusion the deeper we go.

I still wonder if the original fruit of knowledge was a psychedelic. However the practice of meditation was taught to humans by the spiritual masters seeking to awaken the collective mind.

Therefore meditation must be the superior mode of dimensional growth - this is affirmed by all the spiritual masters and also explains why drugs and alcohol are encouraged in modern society and meditation is not.

[dedicate]

The Snake tricked Eve into eating an apple. That's not good. He should have told her the truth.

[dedicate]

According to my Rosicrucian text -- The Lucifers refers to a sub-class of Angels, who fell behind in their development during the Moon Period of Earth. They are not as advanced as Angels,, but more advanced than humans. Still, like angels, they have no ability to gain knowledge (memory, theory, etc..) They are "half way betwen man who needs a brain,, and the Angels who need none". Angels are a group of beings who are able and willing to work with humanity, but on the spiritual level, like in dreams or through psychic awareness. The Lucifers can also make contact with mankind through gross psychism and dreams.. but to their own advantage? Getting what they don't have from us? from a low psychic level. (Rosicrucian Cosm-Conception pp286)

Just a hint...

[foxcroft]

Interesting view point! When you put it in a contextual view like that, it could be a possibility.

Please post some more information on these "old gods".

[dedicate]

"In the later part of the Lemurian Epoch man did not see the physical world as we do now. To him the desire world was much more real. He had the dream consciousness of the Moon Period -- an inner picture consciousness; he was unconscious of the world outside himself. The Lucifers had no difficulty in manifesting to this inner consciousness and calling his attentionon to his ouward shape, which he had not theretofore perceived. They told him how he could cease being simply the servant of external powers and could become his own master and like unto the gods, 'knowing good and evil'. They also made clear to him that he need no apprension if his body died, inasmuch as he had within himself the creative ability to form new bodies without the mediation of the Angels. All of which information was given with the one purpose of turning his consciousness outward for the acquirement of knowledge" And...

"This the Lucifers did that they might profit by it themselves -- to gain knowledge as man acquired it." pp 287

[mistress_medusa]

What an interesting post, Metacomet.

I'm not religious in any way, in fact I consider myself to be ANTI religion but this certainly did make me think. Thanks!

[pinkfreud]

What an interesting post, Metacomet.

I'm not religious in any way, in fact I consider myself to be ANTI religion but this certainly did make me think. Thanks!




+1.

very interesting thread and deep insights you've put in there, M.. i do resonate with it, will be tracking this thread for more of your posts :)

[foxcroft]

So would Lucifer in the judeo/christian religion be an allegory for Prometheus in Greek mythology? Prometheus giving mankind fire (knowledge), and Zeus (God) punishing them because of it?

[sorath]

By the way orbandscepter you brought up psychedellics.

I have verified that my soul exists beyond the physical dimension with meditation. This is the purpose of transcendentalism I believe. Wake people up to the fact that they have a spirit and material reality is not all there is.

Psychedelics bring people to the same conclusion but in a violent way - it thrusts the person into an experience where the ego dissolves and other dimensions bleed into awareness.

I have plenty of experience with psychs but they are like dreams. Hard to bring back and explain.

I do remember feeling once that I was trespassing into the backstage of reality. This is where extra-dimensional beings are observing us and maintaining our physical reality. I believe these are gigantic entities - 'oversouls' as they were known to the Vedic scholars and throughout occult history. These oversouls do not want us to wake up. They are real and I believe Lucifer and others have fought to free us from their grasp.

When we step outside the ego and the physical body with psychedelics these beings watch us. Like children who drowsily stumble out of their bedroom for a glass of water we are easily re-directed to our nice comfortable beds and told to go back to sleep. And we do. All the time.

If we make it clear that we are trying to wake up, we might even be yelled at or chastised. Or killed.

This is why psychedelics are a touchy subject. Spirituality and religion as well. They are taboo for a reason.

The oversouls do not want us to wake up.

This is a excellent thread.

I have experienced the lucifer/jesus thing myself when on psychedellics. I too felt as though I were in a place where I should not be. I spoke with a strange being that showed me the nature of the universe and told me that there are no differences between the beings we call Jesus and Lucifer. I know for a fact that i was not dreaming because I was told to keep my eyes open at all times and when I tried to close them I was confronted with horrible/mediocre television images. It was a beautiful experience and opened my eyes to the prison that humanity is unaware exists.

[bensonz]

Physical reality is an illusion. We operate in this illusion, not knowing that is illusion. Therefore we fear death and pain - we are slaves to illusion.

Too true,many people turn to God for fire ensurance to avoid hell or the fear of hell. I did. I believe we are eternal and that God is eternal. The "illusoin is that the world and the "pleasures" of the flesh that it offers is the answer IE eat drink and be merry because tomorrow we die. Further more I belive God is love and God is reality, if we chose to ignore or deny God, we are actually living in th eillusion, but we are in bondage and are in a type of hell already. Personally I think delusion is a better descripter, at least as far as my piont that I am trying to make. I believe hell is simply a place were God doesn't exist IE where God isnt.


The only way to end our slavery is to attain knowledge. This is a fundamental truth. Knowledge dissolves illusion like light dissolves darkness.

Yes but one can be ever learning and still never coming to the knowledge of the truth, many belive truth is a subjective concept IE what ever what you believe to be is true IE Personl truth. (eg 1 plus 1 = 3. I think this is deluding oneself. IE I am very sincere and I sincerly belive this to be true, but one can be sincerley wrong - in saying that please do not take what I am saying subjectively, I am not stating that you are wrong. I cant do that with out proving it first. (or at least attempting to.)

The Old Testament creation myth has been dissected so many times. I am now starting to realize one of the most startling theories.

On whose perception of truth are you basing this conclusion? Or on what evidence? Obviously you must except that a theory is not truth?

This physical world and all within are illusion. The master of this reality and this dimension is NOT the holy creator or the all-is. This physical reality and dimension is another form of separation from God, another form of 'hell' and it is our destiny to escape it. We have been given instructions for this process of escape many times , from the Buddha, from Christ and possibly from Lucifer himself.


Once again "possibly" is not truth.

I belive God or at least my understaning of him is still operating within and around the current dimension of rea lity IE in our four dimensions of Height Width Breadth and time. I beleive the time is soon coming when God will withdraw himself from it for a time and that those who remain will still remain in these four dimension, but the God of my understanding will not be here, and neither will I.


Is Lucifer a slandered character in history? Maybe so!

Again, "maybe so" does not mean truth.


I believe true evil exists - and that the truest evil is illusion.

And or delusion. Hitler said if you tell a lie often enough people will eventually embrace it as truth.

If the masters of this reality wanted to keep us in illusion, they would condemn and vilify anyone trying to break us free from illusion.

In my opinion God as I undertsand him is the only Master of reality. No mand or beast can keep you from it IE you are free already if you choose to live in the truth ainstead of in the lie.


I believe Lucifer was not 'Satan' but was actually another savior entity, like Buddha and Christ.

On what evidence are you basing this belief?

Lucifer made the great mistake of giving Human beings 'knowledge'. Forbidden knowledge.

Now why on Earth would a benevolent creator God want to keep his children from knowledge? Because the Old Gods were not of the holy spirit . Just as this physical reality is not of the holy spirit . The 'Elohim' and this reality they have trapped us in are DENSE and of LOW VIBRATION - they have always and will always manipulate us to keep us in this same dense vibration. Any knowledge passed towards humanity which can free us from this reality prism is FORBIDDEN and is almost always perverted in the form of organized religion.

It was the knowledge of Good and evil, God never intended for man to be aware of evil, however it was a prt of his longterm plan for humanity to be aware of it.

Tsarion and those like him state that Lucifer was really resuing men from God IE the saviour, however Tsarion aslo state that Alistair Crowley is lovely man.

Lucifer was the first savior to humanity. He is now painted as the ultimate villain - 'You stay away from that BAD MAN! Stick to what you KNOW!' Said the Elohim.

According to what evidence, A Micheal Tsarion book and or video course?

I was born and raised Christian. To come to these conclusions is not necessarily 'easy' but many others have come to it before me and it makes perfect sense to me.


The Old Gods were not the true great spirit. They were our slave masters. They are still around. They ground us to this illusory reality and forbid us from attaining knowledge that can free us.

I belive God as given us the gift of free will, which is obvious, because, at least in the wetern world and on armchair philosphy sites like this, clearly people are free to belive what ever they like. Who and what are these so called master and old gods who are enslaving people? People are slaves to whatever they choose to be enslave by, be that drugs alchohol sex etc, many will say this is freedom, for many ithis belive has led to insanity institutions and death.

Lucifer was not the embodiment of evil. He was a servant of the Old Gods who grew what we call a 'conscience' and attempted to save us.

Lucifer was Gods finest cration, he was given free will, he chose to claim that he was God and exhaulted himself above God, he chose to doubt God. God allowed it.

Lucifers payment from history is to be painted as the ultimate villain to humanity.
The Old Gods and the Old Testament are part of an effort to maintain a massive reality hoax.

So where is the factual proof to enligten me and free me from bondage and lead me to salvation through an altered perception in satan.

Nothing you have said or theorized as convinced me of your perception of truth.

May also remind you of the bible prophey of the great falling away of believers in the end times.

[bensonz]

This is a excellent thread.

I have experienced the lucifer/jesus thing my when on psychedellics. I too felt as though I were in a place where I should not be. I spoke with a strange being that showed me the nature of the universe and told me that there are no differences between the beings we call Jesus and Lucifer. I know for a fact that i was not dreaming because I was told to keep my eyes open at all times and when I tried to close them I was confronted with horrible/mediocre television images. It was a beautiful experience and opened my eyes to the prison that humanity is unaware exists.

Of course you shouldnt have been there, you where in direct contact with a very evil demonic entity, either that or it was just a very powerful "out of it" buzz. And if it was that good, why didnt you sell all that you have to buy as much psychedelics as possible so that you could stay there. I dont recommend you do this of course, becuase if you did, you will no doubt very quickly be one of the many poor souls who have lost there grip on reality. Our mentals institutions are full of poor souls like this.

Veryone trust these so called contactw ith supernatural beings implicitly, why is that? The world laps up books like Conversations With God without question. They actually swallow and accept that this guy was a direct channel used by God. And yet refute that Gos vould use men to write the bible. hypocrites. Come on now hate on me, get out the guilotine and chop mne head of unless I denounce my faith in Jesus Christ.

[synergy777]

my view is that lucifer wants us to remain ignorant to the true nature of reality. as the more ignorant we are, the more evil, self serving, racist, elitest we are.

its is lucifer who only enlightens/illuminates his select, the elite. they have the knowledge. the elite have the knowledge and control us, and the elite worship lucifer.

it is lucifer who hates all mankind becoming enlightend.

as when man becomes enlightend, he realises the true nature of reality, the power of the spirit, the blessing of love and life. the connection we share to god/source, to eachother, to nature, the cosmos etc.

as when man beomes enlightend he is filled with wisdom, compassion, courage. he sees everyone as his equal, as his brother/sister. he connects to nature. he becomes one with everything.

to blame god and to see lucifer as the good guy is funny and tragic, and comes from ignorance and arrogance.

ask yourself, if lucifer is powerful why doesn't he control us openly, why , because he needs us. he manipulates us, tempts us, and we in our arrogance use our free will to choose evil.

god created everything, from the big bang to us. if god wanted to control us, he could without any resistance from us, as he created us. he doesn't want us to be controlled, he wants us to learn, develop, love, be compassionate, he/she loves us like a parent love his/her child.

[deca]

Good & evil ......God & devil .....hmmm dualism again I have two hands should I tie one behind my back and use one or only turn right!!!!

[synergy777]

dualism exists eg night and day, however these two parts are all a part of the whole, now that is the thing worth remembering.

[thelucifer]

The false Lucifer is set up to deceive/enslave.
The false Lucifer is not a bringer of light/truth/freedom but darkness/deception/enslavement.

The false Luciferians, the Masons etc, hide truth from the world so as to enslave it.




Darkness (deception/enslavement/evil) is upon the face (whole) of the deep (world).

[synergy777]

everyone has the own choice to make.

my god is the supreme being, the creator all, the creator of lucifer/satan, thus more powerful than satan/lucifer.

my god is the god that wants us all to live in peace, liberty, compassion, unity, equality, harmony etc.

[quysant]

everyone has the own choice to make.

my god is the supreme being, the creator all, the creator of lucifer/satan, thus more powerful than satan/lucifer.

my god is the god that wants us all to live in peace, liberty, compassion, unity, equality, harmony etc.


Two Wolves

An old Cherokee chief is teaching his grandson about life:

"A fight is going on inside me," he said to the boy. "It is a terrible fight and it is between two wolves.

"One is evil - he is anger, envy, sorrow, regret, greed, arrogance, self-pity, guilt, resentment, inferiority, lies, false pride, superiority, self-doubt, and ego.

"The other is good - he is joy, peace, love, hope,
serenity, humility, kindness, benevolence, empathy, generosity, truth, compassion, and faith.

"This same fight is going on inside you - and inside every other person, too."

The grandson thought about it for a minute and then asked his grandfather, "Which wolf will win?"

The old chief simply replied, "The one you feed."

[thelucifer]

everyone has the own choice to make.

my god is the supreme being, the creator all, the creator of lucifer/satan, thus more powerful than satan/lucifer.

my god is the god that wants us all to live in peace, liberty, compassion, unity, equality, harmony etc.


Absolutely. :)

[dankai]

My soul inhabits a physical body in this physical dimension. I cannot with this physical body, deny the laws of this physical dimension. However, being a multi-dimensional being (like all Humans) I exist above and beyond the physical and can overcome it in countless ways. The basic practice of this we call 'survival'. The advanced practice of overcoming physical reality with the spirit is called transcendentalism.

Humanity is at an enormous gap between basic survival and transcendentalism. This is why you challenge me to overcome laws of physics using a physical body. The concept of metaphysics has to deal with this.

No matter what my beliefs, I cannot swim through the air or fly in this dimension. The existence of other dimensions (i.e. Heaven) where such things are possible has been kept from myself and others. The method to attaining that dimension and overcoming this physical reality has also been withheld.

Those attempting to teach us these things have been punished and we ourselves punished for listening.


There is no escaping this reality or defying it's laws unless my consciousness leaves this physical dimension and this material body. The methods of doing this, apart from actually dying, are transcendental meditation and other forms of dimensional travel.

Anyone attempting to teach me or fellow humans how to leave this dimension through the above mentioned methods will either be murdered, slandered, sacrificed, or their teachings will be purposefully washed out and mis-translated. All of the above has already happened to more than one person. The first person in history that we are aware of doing this is Lucifer.
Originally posted by hengist

If you believe that physical reality is an illusion, then you can prove it by defying physical laws, can you not?

The challenge above to defy physical laws reminds me of Matthew 4:5-7


5Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple,

6And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.

7Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.

Interesting.

[thelucifer]

Two Wolves

An old Cherokee chief is teaching his grandson about life:

"A fight is going on inside me," he said to the boy. "It is a terrible fight and it is between two wolves.

"One is evil - he is anger, envy, sorrow, regret, greed, arrogance, self-pity, guilt, resentment, inferiority, lies, false pride, superiority, self-doubt, and ego.

"The other is good - he is joy, peace, love, hope,
serenity, humility, kindness, benevolence, empathy, generosity, truth, compassion, and faith.

"This same fight is going on inside you - and inside every other person, too."

The grandson thought about it for a minute and then asked his grandfather, "Which wolf will win?"

The old chief simply replied, "The one you feed."

Good post.



People talk about the 613 laws of the Bible.

I say 6 + 1 + 3 = 10
1 + 0 = 1

There is one law, be good.



6 = man
1 = unity
3 = GOD/Perfection


Being good is being one with GOD

[metacomet]

"In the later part of the Lemurian Epoch man did not see the physical world as we do now. To him the desire world was much more real. He had the dream consciousness of the Moon Period -- an inner picture consciousness; he was unconscious of the world outside himself.

This MUST be true. The Native Americans speak of the before times that science will not admit existed. As well the Aborigines have 'dream time' an epoch of history where the world was like a dream - not physical.

Once again I believe the old Gods, who were vengeful, spiteful, wanted to keep us from knowledge etc. are still around and still maintaining the illusion of physical reality.


"This the Lucifers did that they might profit by it themselves -- to gain knowledge as man acquired it." pp 287

The 'Lucifers' are referring to Demonhood in my opinion and are servants of the old Gods. These are other dimensional beings who rely on physicality and our presence in it. They most definitely feed on our physical existence and the energy we create in this dimension.

The 'Lucifers' keep us in this dimension as servants to the Gods of this dimension.

The Morning Star attempted to break us out of this dimension -

He did this by encouraging us to take psychedelics which expanded our consciousness making us aware of our physical body and hence we felt 'naked'.


Now an interesting thing about an intense psychedelic experience is reverting to the ancient mind ... I have felt this. The ancient mind is not familiar or comfortable with clothing and the feeling of clothes feels very strange and even 'wrong'. This must be related to mankinds feeling of nakedness while tasting the forbidden fruit!

[metacomet]

So would Lucifer in the judeo/christian religion be an allegory for Prometheus in Greek mythology? Prometheus giving mankind fire (knowledge), and Zeus (God) punishing them because of it?


Illuminati placed a statue of Prometheus in Rockefeller plaza in the middle of New York as pointed out by Icke in one of his books.

The Illuminati is aware of the true nature of Lucifer and yes they flaunt their forbidden knowledge of reality with symbolism in the form of prometheus, the forbidden fruit (apples logo)... lots of things.

The Illuminati know the truth as human beings were meant to know it. They keep it from us. They are in league with the Elohim or old Gods. Traitors.



I have experienced the lucifer/jesus thing myself when on psychedellics. I too felt as though I were in a place where I should not be. I spoke with a strange being that showed me the nature of the universe and told me that there are no differences between the beings we call Jesus and Lucifer.


When we peak behind the veil the oversouls are NOT at all happy and this is where that feeling comes from in my opinion. It's like stepping into a closed meeting you aren't supposed to be witness.

We are dimensional prisoners and Lucifer and Jesus are savior Archetypes providing the same information about the illusion of physical reality.



its is lucifer who only enlightens/illuminates his select, the elite. they have the knowledge. the elite have the knowledge and control us, and the elite worship lucifer.


The elite took the truth and kept it to themselves. I am positive Lucifer had nothing to do with this.

The same way that Christ had nothing to do with the Vatican taking all ancient knowledge and destroying it...

The Catholic church does not represent Christ. It's an abomination against Christ and it keeps knowledge from humanity.


Luciferians and Satanists and the Illuminati do not represent Lucifer! They are an abomination to truth and knowledge and keep Lucifers information from humanity - even painting him as the enemy to humanity!

The Luciferian Illuminati have pulled an incredible stunt on humanity by taking the truth and hiding it, while re-writing history. They did it with Lucifer and Christ.

[bensonz]

Good & evil ......God & devil .....hmmm dualism again I have two hands should I tie one behind my back and use one or only turn right!!!!

Use the other one to knock some sense into your self.

Only joking mate...he he he.

[bensonz]

Good post.



People talk about the 613 laws of the Bible.

I say 6 + 1 + 3 = 10
1 + 0 = 1

There is one law, be good.



6 = man
1 = unity
3 = GOD/Perfection


Being good is being one with GOD


Being one with God makes you good, being good will not neccessarily make you one with God.

[pinkfreud]

Two Wolves

An old Cherokee chief is teaching his grandson about life:

"A fight is going on inside me," he said to the boy. "It is a terrible fight and it is between two wolves.

"One is evil - he is anger, envy, sorrow, regret, greed, arrogance, self-pity, guilt, resentment, inferiority, lies, false pride, superiority, self-doubt, and ego.

"The other is good - he is joy, peace, love, hope,
serenity, humility, kindness, benevolence, empathy, generosity, truth, compassion, and faith.

"This same fight is going on inside you - and inside every other person, too."

The grandson thought about it for a minute and then asked his grandfather, "Which wolf will win?"

The old chief simply replied, "The one you feed."


brilliant story.

native american folklore and history is so full of wisdom.

[thirdwave]

But Metacomet! How can Lucifer and Christ be brothers of the same cause?

Didn't Lucifer tempt Christ in the desert?


Absolutely not. Christ was tempted by the servants of the Old Gods - demons. Demons still exist and serve the great beast. The great beast is this illusory dimension. It is a massive hoax and many agents serve to maintain it. I believe Christ was tempted by agents of the beast to convince him that there was no saving humanity from physicality.

The true Lucifer or morning star would have been right by Jesus Christ' side - this is a thought far too revolutionary for most to accept. But all truth is revolutionary.



I believe you are correct.

[niall]

"Was lucifer trying to save humanity"?
In a nutshell......... NO! Quite the opposite. But you carry on using bits of the Bible to suit your own desires, if thats what your comfortable with.

[2013]

Revelation 22:16: "I, Jesus,have sent my angel to testify to you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, the bright and morning star."

How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! [how] art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! (Isaiah 14:12)

Many cultures have serpent or dragon people passing on knowledge to mankind . I think its only greek and christain society's who slag off the serpent . wether correct or not .
One meditation i had in 1995 which always stays with me was a vision of the virgin mary who said to me behold my son whom i love and then i saw the face of christ which turned into an atomic explosion . I also had my eyes open at the time . :D

[bensonz]

"Was lucifer trying to save humanity"?
In a nutshell......... NO! Quite the opposite. But you carry on using bits of the Bible to suit your own desires, if thats what your comfortable with.

It never ceases to amaze me when people, who have stated the bible is a fairy tale (or words to that effect) proceed to use it to build an arguement around, as proof that they are right.

They also use the mess the world is in, to prove to themselves that if there is a god then its all his fault so therefor there isnt a god?

[niall]

It never ceases to amaze me when people, who have stated the bible is a fairy tale (or words to that effect) proceed to use it to build an arguement around, as proof that they are right.

They also use the mess the world is in, to prove to themselves that if there is a god then its all his fault so therefor there isnt a god?

Very true bensonz. The other amazing thing is that considering that the source of lucifer is from the Bible, surely then only the accounts that exist about him in the Bible are valid. The mess the world is in is because of lucifer, as it clearly states in the Bible. He is also managing to mislead some quite intelligent people on here to, just as it says he will, funny enough, in the Bible.

[thirdwave]

"Was lucifer trying to save humanity"?
In a nutshell......... NO! Quite the opposite. But you carry on using bits of the Bible to suit your own desires, if thats what your comfortable with.

have you an explanation as to how this misunderstanding (as you would call it) has come into a good few peoples view.

example, why are both Lucifer and Jesus the morning star?... and horus for that matter... why are they depicted as star at all?

Also you don't have to have a desire here, its simply not excepting a book as the word of God, and researching other hidden meanings, as we have no idea who wrote it... you are in your right to have your faith or belife in what it is and who wrote it, but can we imply its factual?.

[thirdwave]

It never ceases to amaze me when people, who have stated the bible is a fairy tale (or words to that effect) proceed to use it to build an arguement around, as proof that they are right.


This comment highlighte the fact you really dont know where "people" are coming from.... the bible is full of symbols and hidden occult symobls.... this is as clear as day light to see....

the morning star is symbolic.... the serpent is symbolic.... the cross is symbolic.... and so on...

so it makes perfect sense to learn and understand the symbology within it.... but this does not mean you are agreeing that the book is the message of God for all humanity..

Understand?

Also I often have to talk to Christians in the context of (for arguments sake) that it was a true story... as while doing so it is incredibly easy to expose the flaws in the story and how much of it quite simply does not add up... that is of course if you just decide to cut the parts out you dont like... or just tell people they are pulling them out of context with out putting it IN context for us to see what you mean.


They also use the mess the world is in, to prove to themselves that if there is a god then its all his fault so therefor there isnt a god?

No, and again you are so busy trying to glorify your god you are missing the point.... You are expressing the importance of the god..... and how vital it is for man kind to believe in Jesus Christ and the bible.... people are simply pointing out that it has no back up .... it has never brought peace on earth..... even after Jesus was supposed to have died on the cross peace never came... if anything just a new platform for many wars...

And you your self while glorifying Christians to everyone else said that they have been slaughtered and suffered a great deal... So what salvation did they have in believing in Christ?

People are simply pointing out that although your faith in Jesus makes you feel better when you wake up in the morning, this is not the case for every human and not everyone can see the motivation in it.

It also has nothing to do with not believing in God... because one does not believe in Jesus Christ it does not mean he does not believe in God...

If I was forced at gun point to have a religion it certainly would not be Christianity, Judaism or Islam, that's for sure.

As it stands although Im not a perfect Human being, I do not require a religion of a Guru to follow... I feel a better person and treat people better when I feel free, and those are my morals...

[niall]

All that morning star stuff is just to deceive you and a lot of intelligent people seem to fall for it all the time. Like the Bible says (which is where you get Jesus and lucifer from) Jesus was a man. Anyone who tells you otherwise is lying. Jesus also was not born on the 25th of Dec, and it never mentions that date in the Bible, which kind of ruins all that zietgiest stuff. He is not connected with horus either. People tell you that to sell books. Some people even tell you that to lead you away from the truth. The Bible isn't coded.

[thirdwave]

Very true bensonz. The other amazing thing is that considering that the source of lucifer is from the Bible, surely then only the accounts that exist about him in the Bible are valid. The mess the world is in is because of lucifer, as it clearly states in the Bible. He is also managing to mislead some quite intelligent people on here to, just as it says he will, funny enough, in the Bible.

but again this is your take.... if that were true then it would also be a prediction in the bible...

there for why cant it also be that it is simply creating fear around thinking for your self....? like "those who think away from Jesus Christ are falling for Satans trap..." ?... I mean does that really sound trustworthy?... what all powerful and trusting God would ask for only his words to be taken in.... and to frighten us away from other words?

to me that is like taking away human perception and offering it to a being... Now if I was an Evil being THAT would be my plan!.. and boy it would be a good one!

i see it as fear mongering...

I see religion as simply learning how to except where you are and submit to it andf find peace in it..... so you feel better, but I don't believe most of us are where we should be and we have forgotten true freedom... in fact most people are AFRAID of freedom and get cross when people show it to them...

IMO religiuon is like amputation... and people who would rather cure there inner self's are seen as being tricked and misguided rather then get it amputated.... for me Satan is simply truth pointing out all your thoughts and desires.... and loves haunting you with them until you do something about it.

I don't think he is ever meant to go away, you are simply meant to stop hiding from him and face him and when you do you learn he is actually not bad at all.... and it is "God" who is the one who likes to oppress truth just so he can keep people in a lovely white box with cotton wool on the walls.

I belive its not just about this life... and the finish line is not when we die... I have a feeling all of us have quite a bit of work to do.... So no God is going to make me think in a couple inches from the finish line....

[thirdwave]

All that morning star stuff is just to deceive you and a lot of intelligent people seem to fall for it all the time. Like the Bible says (which is where you get Jesus and lucifer from) Jesus was a man. Anyone who tells you otherwise is lying. Jesus also was not born on the 25th of Dec, and it never mentions that date in the Bible, which kind of ruins all that zietgiest stuff. He is not connected with horus either. People tell you that to sell books. Some people even tell you that to lead you away from the truth. The Bible isn't coded.

If you were to pass me a bible to read, which one would it be?

I don't think you can brush of "that zietgiest" because his B day was not on the 25th... for a start the Z film implys he did not exist... so its not like they were guessing his B date.. they where simply showing the relevant of that date used as it has been for many many many years...... I don't know why religious people cant be more supportive when these DVDs expose what is being corrupted in their religion..

I also do not agree that the Horus thing is to sell books... I have researched bits and peaces my self and the old authors who raised these points do come up with valid points... but its hard to over rule the info of info that has been force fed to kids in schools for many many years....

You have to remeber that many anciant texts have been destoried, and strories changed.... are you saying that through all the religious wars and fights among christian faiths over the years they have not tampered with the histry of other civilisations?

so what are your thoughts of the Hindu texts which date back much much longer than Christian texts and the story of Jesus, talking about a man called "yeesha Masih" who was born of a virgin .. and who died a horid death of blood shed for our sins... he was refered to as "sovereign king in a holy person robed in white" ....had "horny vines" placed on his head and was crucifide.... and many more extream similarities..

all this was in texts that predates Jesus many many years...

what are your thoughts on that?

[niall]

My thoughts are that for some insane reason you seem to spend your time discrediting Christianity. The use of the 25th Dec is important because thats when people are tricked into taking part in a pagan ceremony.Horus was horus and Jesus is Jesus. Its very simple to understand. They tried to connect the two by the use of a non-existent birth date for Jesus.There is much evidence that suggests his birth is around sept 29th, but that would not fit with the dates they need the masses to follow. At the time of Jesus there was 300 million people alive on earth and considering the miracles he performed, word spread quickly. After his death then resurrection so many people where dying in his name to spread the truth, that more and more people learnt about his teachings and by that time it was too late and could not be stopped. That is why the vatican/roman empire stepped in and changed their idle worship to figures of the Christ. They knew they could not stop the truth for it had gone to far and spread to so many people, so they needed to get some control.They also knew that they could never corrupt the message and teachings of Jesus so they have lured people into accidentally worshipping the sun and all its symbology by the buildings, statues and pictures they use. However this will not work as true christians do not need a church, and never really have. The corrupt heads of religion use the places of worship and their invented ceremonies to trick people and most importantly to put people like yourself off religion. They also force people at a young age into religion, just to put them off it. As for yeesha Masih translated that means Jesus Christ.
If you think about it, following crowley means you basically have to discredit Christianity as he said he wanted to destroy it. He also claimed he was the beast/666. Strange thats something else from the Bible.
You have to understand that you are not empowered to lead people away from Christianity. The people who believe what you say would never have been believers anyway, so if your aim is to convert real Christians you will only fail. Tell me, do really think that someone like Bush is a Christian or can you understand that his actions of mass murder in full public view show clearly that he is only pretending to be Christian, again purely to put the masses off Christianity.

[bensonz]

Very true bensonz. The other amazing thing is that considering that the source of lucifer is from the Bible, surely then only the accounts that exist about him in the Bible are valid. The mess the world is in is because of lucifer, as it clearly states in the Bible. He is also managing to mislead some quite intelligent people on here to, just as it says he will, funny enough, in the Bible.

Even Christians, are believing the lie IE the great falling away. predicted in the bible

[thirdwave]

My thoughts are that for some insane reason you seem to spend your time discrediting Christianity.

Well I dont post on religious forums hounding people not to listen to Jesus... I post here on a number of subjects it just so happens many Christians have a problem with decent authors researching alternative knowledge on these things.... I feel strongly about people being shown the truth and not info that is tainted by others faith... I don't think that's insane at all.

The use of the 25th Dec is important because thats when people are tricked into taking part in a pagan ceremony.

Very true, like much of Christianity... and lets not forget the word Pagan is a label used for many different kinds of people.

Horus was horus and Jesus is Jesus. Its very simple to understand. They tried to connect the two by the use of a non-existent birth date for Jesus.
I believe there is substance to it and not as simple as you have said for reasons i have stated but its not my job to tell you what to think Im simply telling you the position of others.


There is much evidence that suggests his birth is around sept 29th, but that would not fit with the dates they need the masses to follow. At the time of Jesus there was 300 million people alive on earth and considering the miracles he performed, word spread quickly.

The fact that his B day is un known is insane... it should have been the first thing that was learnt....

After his death then resurrection so many people where dying in his name to spread the truth, that more and more people learnt about his teachings and by that time it was too late and could not be stopped.

That is why the vatican/roman empire stepped in and changed their idle worship to figures of the Christ. They knew they could not stop the truth for it had gone to far and spread to so many people, so they needed to get some control.They also knew that they could never corrupt the message and teachings of Jesus so they have lured people into accidentally worshipping the sun and all its symbology by the buildings, statues and pictures they use. However this will not work as true christians do not need a church, and never really have. The corrupt heads of religion use the places of worship and their invented ceremonies to trick people and most importantly to put people like yourself off religion. They also force people at a young age into religion, just to put them off it.

The thing is with all that, it is simply your opinion and take on what went on, it is by no means provable what you are saying.... and you are more than in your right to think that, what I and others wonder is why you think its insane that I do not see it that way?

either the word got out or it did not..... what bible did you read? how do you know what texts are real or written by whom? ... all you have learnt about him is what has been presented over 2000 supposed years, full of manipulation... yet you take these documents and view anyone who is not convinced by them as insane...?


As for yeesha Masih translated that means Jesus Christ.

Yes it does!... his story being told in Hindu texts that where written long before the "Days of Jesus".... are they talking about someone else?... or has the bible got the dates wrong?...


If you think about it, following crowley means you basically have to discredit Christianity as he said he wanted to destroy it.

I don't follow Crowley, I have read some of his books and find him a fascinating and intelligent person.... I do not believe in Gurus... and the reason he wanted to destroy Religion was because he knew it was full of lies and manipulation.... he was not wanting to destroy it because it was good (like Christians love to make out)... he labelled it "Vulgar"... and used the word in its original meaning (as he often did) which meant it was not well educated.... if poeople bothered to actuyaly research the man him self rather than biased views of him then they might learn a little bit about where he was coming from.

I do not love him unconditionally... I find him interesting as I do many other authors... I defend him here not because of my love for him but because of my love for freedom of speech and choice....


He also claimed he was the beast/666. Strange thats something else from the Bible.

With all due respect, this is what I mean you are completely un researched of the guy, the reason he called him self the beast 666 is because his Christian mother used to call him it when he was naughty.... and he liked it because he hated how Christianity was forced on him through childhood.

also what brought him closer to the namewas when he learned that the number 666 is the number of of the heart sharkra and the sun ... (they don't tell you that in the bible), in fact 666 could also be associated with "Christ" (from the Christian meaning of the word)


You have to understand that you are not empowered to lead people away from Christianity.

lol I do not want to be or clame to be... It is not my place to tell people what gods to belive in or what faith to have... thats is your choice...

I simply suport this alternative info as I think many will benefit from it... ok maybe not yoiu, fair play... but many like my self will....

You have to understand that If I keep banging on about it, it means that there is something banging at the other end.

The people who believe what you say would never have been believers anyway, so if your aim is to convert real Christians you will only fail. Why would I spend all my time on a David Icke forum if I was on a mission to convert christians?


Tell me, do really think that someone like Bush is a Christian or can you understand that his actions of mass murder in full public view show clearly that he is only pretending to be Christian, again purely to put the masses off Christianity.

Not at all, I think he knows all about religions and is playing a role... just as many "Jews" are playing the role as them.... and Muslims.... to me its all unnecessary baggage to save.

people like Tsarion and others who teach people about what the bible is really about are actually SAVING what you know as Christianity.... pointing people to the true roots and the real worth of it all. And I support that whole heartedly.

And as for Crowley you can make judgement on my based on him but unless you are prepared to spend the time to sift through all the shit written about him and find out what it is that some found interesting about him then there is no point in even debating him... he is the anti Christ and i am being lead into his fires.... believe that if you must.

[octopusrex]

Physical reality is an illusion. We operate in this illusion, not knowing that is illusion. Therefore we fear death and pain - we are slaves to illusion.

The only way to end our slavery is to attain knowledge. This is a fundamental truth. Knowledge dissolves illusion like light dissolves darkness.



The Old Testament creation myth has been dissected so many times. I am now starting to realize one of the most startling theories.

This physical world and all within are illusion. The master of this reality and this dimension is NOT the holy creator or the all-is. This physical reality and dimension is another form of separation from God, another form of 'hell' and it is our destiny to escape it. We have been given instructions for this process of escape many times , from the Buddha, from Christ and possibly from Lucifer himself.


Is Lucifer a slandered character in history? Maybe so!

I believe true evil exists - and that the truest evil is illusion.

If the masters of this reality wanted to keep us in illusion, they would condemn and vilify anyone trying to break us free from illusion.

I believe Lucifer was not 'Satan' but was actually another savior entity, like Buddha and Christ.

Lucifer made the great mistake of giving Human beings 'knowledge'. Forbidden knowledge.

Now why on Earth would a benevolent creator God want to keep his children from knowledge? Because the Old Gods were not of the holy spirit . Just as this physical reality is not of the holy spirit . The 'Elohim' and this reality they have trapped us in are DENSE and of LOW VIBRATION - they have always and will always manipulate us to keep us in this same dense vibration. Any knowledge passed towards humanity which can free us from this reality prism is FORBIDDEN and is almost always perverted in the form of organized religion.


Lucifer was the first savior to humanity. He is now painted as the ultimate villain - 'You stay away from that BAD MAN! Stick to what you KNOW!' Said the Elohim.



I was born and raised Christian. To come to these conclusions is not necessarily 'easy' but many others have come to it before me and it makes perfect sense to me.


The Old Gods were not the true great spirit. They were our slave masters. They are still around. They ground us to this illusory reality and forbid us from attaining knowledge that can free us.


Lucifer was not the embodiment of evil. He was a servant of the Old Gods who grew what we call a 'conscience' and attempted to save us.

Lucifers payment from history is to be painted as the ultimate villain to humanity.

The Old Gods and the Old Testament are part of an effort to maintain a massive reality hoax.

Hermes Trigamestus, St. Germain.

Go to your local Caballeros de Colon for more info.

[persian_x]

Physical reality is an illusion. We operate in this illusion, not knowing that is illusion. Therefore we fear death and pain - we are slaves to illusion.

The only way to end our slavery is to attain knowledge. This is a fundamental truth. Knowledge dissolves illusion like light dissolves darkness.



The Old Testament creation myth has been dissected so many times. I am now starting to realize one of the most startling theories.

This physical world and all within are illusion. The master of this reality and this dimension is NOT the holy creator or the all-is. This physical reality and dimension is another form of separation from God, another form of 'hell' and it is our destiny to escape it. We have been given instructions for this process of escape many times , from the Buddha, from Christ and possibly from Lucifer himself.


Is Lucifer a slandered character in history? Maybe so!

I believe true evil exists - and that the truest evil is illusion.

If the masters of this reality wanted to keep us in illusion, they would condemn and vilify anyone trying to break us free from illusion.

I believe Lucifer was not 'Satan' but was actually another savior entity, like Buddha and Christ.

Lucifer made the great mistake of giving Human beings 'knowledge'. Forbidden knowledge.

Now why on Earth would a benevolent creator God want to keep his children from knowledge? Because the Old Gods were not of the holy spirit . Just as this physical reality is not of the holy spirit . The 'Elohim' and this reality they have trapped us in are DENSE and of LOW VIBRATION - they have always and will always manipulate us to keep us in this same dense vibration. Any knowledge passed towards humanity which can free us from this reality prism is FORBIDDEN and is almost always perverted in the form of organized religion.


Lucifer was the first savior to humanity. He is now painted as the ultimate villain - 'You stay away from that BAD MAN! Stick to what you KNOW!' Said the Elohim.



I was born and raised Christian. To come to these conclusions is not necessarily 'easy' but many others have come to it before me and it makes perfect sense to me.


The Old Gods were not the true great spirit. They were our slave masters. They are still around. They ground us to this illusory reality and forbid us from attaining knowledge that can free us.


Lucifer was not the embodiment of evil. He was a servant of the Old Gods who grew what we call a 'conscience' and attempted to save us.

Lucifers payment from history is to be painted as the ultimate villain to humanity.

The Old Gods and the Old Testament are part of an effort to maintain a massive reality hoax.

I can promise u that if u go in a masonic lodge and present this perspective they'll immeditatly give you the 33rd degree ranking.

Well done, luciferian.

[fromthatshow]

I think it's more symbolic. I think we are Lucifer, the fallen angel. We live in illusion by operating from our egos (Satan). Yes I believe Christ and Buddha were way showers, but I don't think Lucifer was a real entity that gave knowledge but symbolic of our fall from grace.

[thirdwave]

I think it's more symbolic. I think we are Lucifer, the fallen angel. We live in illusion by operating from our egos (Satan). Yes I believe Christ and Buddha were way showers, but I don't think Lucifer was a real entity that gave knowledge but symbolic of our fall from grace.

interesting take on it... but would that not mean we are christs enemy?

[fromthatshow]

Well how many of us live from Christ consciousness? I don't know if that would mean we were the enemy but we are living in a fallen state.

[metacomet]

Beyond 'Jesus Christ' the man there is what we call CHRIST CONSCIOUSNESS -

this is a kind of SOURCE consciousness from which all consciousness arises. It is from this source that we forego the illusory ego and our physical reality - it is this source that connects us to all other dimensions and realities. Without it we are lost.

LUCIFERIAN CONSCIOUSNESS may be another form of SOURCE consciousness - and from this source we have created the illusory ego and this physical reality - this source may also connect to other dimensions and realities.

It's my opinion that Lucifer and Christ taught separate and opposite methods to achieving the same knowledge... both methods deal with the dissolving of illusion.

The moral high road is to develop ones soul through right action and self realization - this is the method of Christ!

The rough and dirty road is to take psychedelics which thrust one into dimensional awareness - this is the mode of ritualism, drugs, and 'magic' and is STRICTLY FORBIDDEN.

This is my understanding, just thought I would put it out there.

There is no right or wrong, Lucifer and Christ are the good and evil paths within us but all paths lead to the same conclusion.

I am literally figuring this out as I go along... just for the record.

[thirdwave]

I recommend people research the story of promethius... which is from Greek myths dating back before when most of the bible was written...

See if something rings a bell...

those who are interested of course, those who feel it will just be the work of Satan trying to test your faith then don't click on the link and avoid the confrontation!

start here

Prometheus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[bensonz]

It's my opinion that Lucifer and Christ taught separate and opposite methods to achieving the same knowledge... both methods deal with the dissolving of illusion.

Do you have any of Lucifers teachings you can share with me so that I can compare them to Christs teaching so that I can perhaps come to this same conclusion as you (This is genuine request bro, not a mocking request) or is this opinion pure conjecture (which is allowed of course) Just seeking calrification.


The moral high road is to develop ones soul through right action and self realization - this is the method of Christ!

The bible says that we are saved through grace, through Faith in Christ
not of works so that no one can boast. What you have stated here is the polar oposite of that.


The rough and dirty road is to take psychedelics which thrust one into dimensional awareness - this is the mode of ritualism, drugs, and 'magic' and is STRICTLY FORBIDDEN.

Oh? Strictly forbidden by who?

This is my understanding, just thought I would put it out there.

There is no right or wrong, Lucifer and Christ are the good and evil paths within us but all paths lead to the same conclusion.

I am literally figuring this out as I go along... just for the record.

Im glad you clarified that my friend, initailly your OP came accross as the gospel according too metacome. (to me any way, but who the fuck am I right?)

There's nothing wrong with putting ideas out there. Keep it up, enjoy the journey (right now) that's what it's all about.

A wise man onces said to me, "Never forget in the dark, what you learned in the light.

[jadeaube]

our religions dont matter much.. unless you're really smart and do tons of research.... ... anyways.... evil spelled backwards is live ...... Lucifer was above 'evil' .. he/she was above evil.... the being 'Lucifer' tends to slant towards 'The Great White Light of Knowledge' ... which is tight.. whereas.. Michael...(The Arcangel Michael) tends to slant towards 'The Great White Light of Conditional Love'(also tight) ... or they represent either side anyways.... there is no right side though.... the correct path is through the middle.... the closer you get to the middle.. the closer you get to the 'christed' energy... ascension....

Two lessons....

1. don't misuse/abuse knowledge or those who don't posses it..... and ....

2. don't love people unconditionally..... but at the same time.... don't put into place too many conditions that another must follow in order for another to be granted your love....

all in all..... strive towards the middle of both of these two great white lights and you won't be dissapointed....

[2013]

All that morning star stuff is just to deceive you and a lot of intelligent people seem to fall for it all the time. Like the Bible says (which is where you get Jesus and lucifer from) Jesus was a man. Anyone who tells you otherwise is lying. Jesus also was not born on the 25th of Dec, and it never mentions that date in the Bible, which kind of ruins all that zietgiest stuff. He is not connected with horus either. People tell you that to sell books. Some people even tell you that to lead you away from the truth. The Bible isn't coded.

Except for the bible code ! :rolleyes: mossad and CIA supercomputors decoded it !! :rolleyes:
The alien link must be a strong contender as why else would people assume heaven and god ,angels etc come from out there , when the true home is within .Alien inteference ? It's all smoke and mirrors riddles to be worked out byt he enlightened ones:eek:
:D

[skunksmash]

i heard tell that ''Lucifer'' is not a demon, or the devil at all, its a group of souls contracted to help man in this journey, unlike ''god'' as we know him or it..... who sits back & watches ;)


but i have never read the bible & i certainly don't have the full picture where religion is concerned.....:o



:)SK

[thirdwave]

our religions dont matter much.. unless you're really smart and do tons of research.... ... anyways.... evil spelled backwards is live ...... Lucifer was above 'evil' .. he/she was above evil.... the being 'Lucifer' tends to slant towards 'The Great White Light of Knowledge' ... which is tight.. whereas.. Michael...(The Arcangel Michael) tends to slant towards 'The Great White Light of Conditional Love'(also tight) ... or they represent either side anyways.... there is no right side though.... the correct path is through the middle.... the closer you get to the middle.. the closer you get to the 'christed' energy... ascension....

Two lessons....

1. don't misuse/abuse knowledge or those who don't posses it..... and ....

2. don't love people unconditionally..... but at the same time.... don't put into place too many conditions that another must follow in order for another to be granted your love....

all in all..... strive towards the middle of both of these two great white lights and you won't be dissapointed....


yes, balance... you have the ying and you have the yang....

this is what is needed to recognise both sides....

[bensonz]

QUOTE=jadeaube;783838]our religions dont matter much.. unless you're really smart and do tons of research.... ... anyways.... evil spelled backwards is live

Deified spelt Backwards is Deified, wasnt it the great Alistair Crowly who taught is deciples to speak backwards talk backwards walk backwards.

You can deify Lucifer all you like, he is the father of all lies who has the abilty to appear as an angel of light.


...... Lucifer was above 'evil' .. he/she was above evil.... the being 'Lucifer'

Lucifer tried to place himself above God, which tends to slant towards him being the universes first EGOMANIAC

tends to slant towards 'The Great White Light of Knowledge' ... which is tight.. whereas.. Michael...(The Arcangel Michael) tends to slant towards 'The Great White Light of Conditional Love'(also tight) ... or they represent either side anyways.... there is no right side though.... the correct path is through the middle.... the closer you get to the middle.. the closer you get to the 'christed' energy... ascension....

Or you disapear up your own arse crack, which is in the middle of your back, which is tight. (but to get in there you first have to get pastyour crusted undangers)



Two lessons....

1. Dont jump into threads to debate with people who are really smart and have done tons of research

2. Refer to lesson one

all in all..... dont talk bollocks

[2013]

Deified spelt Backwards is Deified, wasnt it the great Alistair Crowly who taught is deciples to speak backwards talk backwards walk backwards.

You can deify Lucifer all you like, he is the father of all lies who has the abilty to appear as an angel of light.




Lucifer tried to place himself above God, which tends to slant towards him being the universes first EGOMANIAC



Or you disapear up your own arse crack, which is in the middle of your back, which is tight.



Two lessons....

1. Dont jump into threads to debate with people who are really smart and have done tons of research

2. Refer to lesson one

all in all..... dont talk bollocks

All this is conjecture based on other peoples research or writings . How many have personal experience of God or Lucifer .If the bible stated Satan was lord of this world and we are deceived and lied to then perhaps Lucifer was rebelling against that . The God of the old testament was very angry jealous and controlling in contrast to jesus's message of peace and turn the other cheek .Jehovah was an ancient Hebrew storm god not even the principle God . He had a wife whom all references of have been virtually removed . there are many sources to quote from but only one truth , do any of us really know it ? Just try to do good and think good and all else will proceed from there :D

[bensonz]

All this is conjecture based on other peoples research or writings . How many have personal experience of God or Lucifer .If the bible stated Satan was lord of this world and we are deceived and lied to then perhaps Lucifer was rebelling against that . The God of the old testament was very angry jealous and controlling in contrast to jesus's message of peace and turn the other cheek .Jehovah was an ancient Hebrew storm god not even the principle God . He had a wife whom all references of have been virtually removed . there are many sources to quote from but only one truth , do any of us really know it ? Just try to do good and think good and all else will proceed from there :D

And kermit the frogs finger smelt of bacon. Hey it':Ds not easy being green but somebody has to do it. The road to hell is paved with good intentions and thers is a way that seems right to man but in the end it leads to death.

Sometimes for evil (disinformation delusion and outright lies )to prevail good people just need to do and say nothing. I have no problem with peoplel haveing a view point, however most people here think they are all seeing brown eye zen masters preaching to their stupid deciples. However I agree, if you do good, think good, good things will happen. The creator of the universe set it up to work like that.

[2013]

And kermit the frogs finger smelt of bacon. Hey it':Ds not easy being green but somebody has to do it. The road to hell is paved with good intentions and thers is a way that seems right to man but in the end it leads to death.

Sometime for evil to prevail it means good people doing nothing

lmao re kermit anyway if heaven is up and hell down is that just a state of mind or being , is it a vibrational frequency , which is what we operate on anyway .Is heaven symbolicaly our home in space and hell being here on earth in a dense 3 dimensional vibration .Satan works for God going to and fro in the land tempting people according to the Book .so if ggod is the ultimate authority then satan like the Nazi war criminals at the trials stated . he is only doing his job . the failing is with us not him /her /it .
Perhaps God and the Devil are playing chess , the winner being the one who collects the most souls come the end time :D

[bensonz]

lmao re kermit anyway if heaven is up and hell down is that just a state of mind or being , is it a vibrational frequency , which is what we operate on anyway .Is heaven symbolicaly our home in space and hell being here on earth in a dense 3 dimensional vibration .Satan works for God going to and fro in the land tempting people according to the Book .so if ggod is the ultimate authority then satan like the Nazi war criminals at the trials stated . he is only doing his job . the failing is with us not him /her /it .
Perhaps God and the Devil are playing chess , the winner being the one who collects the most souls come the end time :D


God hates chess, he's a backgammon guy, and your rite whoever gets the most assholes wins. Actually God his half man half woman and have she goat. I forgotten whatthe other half was, oh thats right, its a cross between a dolphin and kangaroo.

Which reminds me of a joke, what do you get if you cross an elephant with a kangaroo? Great big holes all over australia. Actually scientists have discovered that such an animal actaully exsited 98 trillion years ZM and that micheal Phelps is directly decended from a pod of dope smoking dolphins which originated in small pool north west of Equitorial Guiney in the late 18th century BC anodominoes. Another great game God love, dominoes, hes wicked at it. Once satan (god called him stan then), beat him three nil so thats when God said, and low fuck this for a game of soldiers and cast him out into outer darkness where there was weeping and gnasshing of teeth. Then God got hammered on the blood of a thousand Jehovas witnesses and practised nailing Jesus to the corss for fun whilst dancing up and down on his grave singing e singing hallefucking luelia until a gaggle of angels came in and said fuck this father we havent had any sleep for 10, million years do you realise what fucken time it is. And God, who liked to be called Katherine by his close friends said thou shalt shut the fuck up dont you know who I am... I dont do time IM eternal and you lot can get the fuck out of here right now with Stan.

Its true you know, becuase the vibration in my svingter muscle proves it to me.

[bensonz]

Quote:
Originally Posted by niall
All that morning star stuff is just to deceive you and a lot of intelligent people seem to fall for it all the time. Like the Bible says (which is where you get Jesus and lucifer from) Jesus was a man. Anyone who tells you otherwise is lying. Jesus also was not born on the 25th of Dec, and it never mentions that date in the Bible, which kind of ruins all that zietgiest stuff. He is not connected with horus either. People tell you that to sell books. Some people even tell you that to lead you away from the truth. The Bible isn't coded.

I went to his piss up a couple of months back (werent you invited?, prick of job getting 2009 candles on the cake, but he turned all the water into wine and we had right bloody knees up.

[2013]

stan jus tproves to em God is a yorkshire man , when asked who he was he said I am ,That i am . EEh by gum lad .Which reminds me of a joke abotu the youth of yorkshire who have taken to injecting ectasy into their mouths for a hit . It,s called e by gum !:D

[jadeaube]

Deified spelt Backwards is Deified, wasnt it the great Alistair Crowly who taught is deciples to speak backwards talk backwards walk backwards.

You can deify Lucifer all you like, he is the father of all lies who has the abilty to appear as an angel of light.




Lucifer tried to place himself above God, which tends to slant towards him being the universes first EGOMANIAC



Or you disapear up your own arse crack, which is in the middle of your back, which is tight. (but to get in there you first have to get pastyour crusted undangers)



Two lessons....

1. Dont jump into threads to debate with people who are really smart and have done tons of research

2. Refer to lesson one

all in all..... dont talk bollocks

u basically just snapped and went on a religious rant because I was bored enough to actually type that evil is live backwards... WELL I GOT NEWS FOR YOU MISTER! DEVIL IS ALSO LIVED BACKWARDS!!!! HAAA!!!!! all in all.... or lla ni lla, you're attacking a subject which is pretty cool...... example.. the company 'ups' if you flip the shit upside down it spells 'sdn"(satan) soooOOOoooo HA!! ... its a funny story.. I was trying to teach my friends about symbology etc and one dude was like... this is a b/s coincidence... my best friends dad started UPS from the ground up and theres no symbolism in that.. and at the time I was like... ookaay... you're right... no symbolism in ups....... BUT THEN I FOUND SOME! SO FUCK HIM! and FUCK YOU! nob... and fuck Mr. Crowly

and p. fucking s.
or u.p. fucking s. for that matter

the being 'Lucifer' is in tighter with 'god'(or 'Magenta' as it likes to be called) than most any1... Lucifer could never be more powerful than Magenta unless Magenta desired it to be so... Magenta created Lucifer... and Michael too for that matter... and Magenta loves them equally. They're both necessary and benevolent beings

u.p.p. fucking s. Magenta created everything else also .... but there's still more outside of Magenta

[bensonz]

stan jus tproves to em God is a yorkshire man , when asked who he was he said I am ,That i am . EEh by gum lad .Which reminds me of a joke abotu the youth of yorkshire who have taken to injecting ectasy into their mouths for a hit . It,s called e by gum !:D

You see, twsiting the truth Already, there is not a shred of evidence to prove God was a Yorkshireman. Moderator, can you see how these people are twisting the truth. Everyone God grew up in the philipeene. The bloody audacity fo some people.

Tweet Tweet Twit Twat Tweet. - Bird with terrets.

[bensonz]

u basically just snapped and went on a religious rant because I was bored enough to actually type that evil is live backwards... WELL I GOT NEWS FOR YOU MISTER! DEVIL IS ALSO LIVED BACKWARDS!!!! HAAA!!!!! all in all.... or lla ni lla, you're attacking a subject which is pretty cool...... example.. the company 'ups' if you flip the shit upside down it spells 'sdn"(satan) soooOOOoooo HA!! ... its a funny story.. I was trying to teach my friends about symbology etc and one dude was like... this is a b/s coincidence... my best friends dad started UPS from the ground up and theres no symbolism in that.. and at the time I was like... ookaay... you're right... no symbolism in ups....... BUT THEN I FOUND SOME! SO FUCK HIM! and FUCK YOU! nob... and fuck Mr. Crowly

and p. fucking s.
or u.p. fucking s. for that matter

the being 'Lucifer' is in tighter with 'god'(or 'Magenta' as it likes to be called) than most any1... Lucifer could never be more powerful than Magenta unless Magenta desired it to be so... Magenta created Lucifer... and Michael too for that matter... and Magenta loves them equally. They're both necessary and benevolent beings

u.p.p. fucking s. Magenta created everything else also .... but there's still more outside of Magenta

Sorry buddy, I have just a total melt down, please forgive me - You didnt deserve that at all. I thought for a minute I had manifested into the very creator God himself and that it was my job to enlighten everyone in this dark and dieing world, when all along it was me who dissapeared up my on tight arse past by crusty undangers. The problem is Im addicted to this iste, its nearly 6 in the morning and Ive had no sleep. Shame on me for being a first glass nob end. Still what you said was pure and utter tripe, wasnt it, come on admitt it. Go on I dare ya.

[jadeaube]

and duuurrr duuurr deee durr dduurrr.... read up nob guy... I need to clear more up for you I guess too. I saw you spatting at some dude religiously.... an he liked my post... so I'm gonna set u straight... the 666 number of the beast thing(related to Lucifer.... yes... a bad number.... no!)...... ok... you know the star of david? those 2 triangles.... well the 3 angles on those triangles are all 60degrees... 60, 60, 60... thats where u get 666 from.... congrats.. before u can say anymore the star of david has nothing to do with religion etc.... but yah.... more interesting 666 facts... www = 666 in roman numerals...... also.. www is basically the sign for aquarius...... which is the processional age we just entered.... I think thats more or less it with the 666'ery.... OH WAIT! NO! It isnt! see 666 isn't a bad number at all... they just want you to think it is... same with 9/11 or 911... thats why its the emerg number... but theres a connection between those 2 also.... if you put the hands of a clock at 9 and 11... it makes that 60 degree angle... fun stuff!

p.s. the star of david or 666 is actually the symbol for.... conscious light vehicles... I think thats what its called.... or..... autonomous light vehicles(flying saucers of sorts) something light vehicles anyways....

p.p.s. yes... Jesus was a man... but Jesus wasn't his name.. I can't remember what it was its weird.... he was a christed being though... and you're talking about frequencies n such... thats why god prefers 2 be called Magenta though... because ultraviolet light is the highest frequency of light... I can go on... but I dont want to..

[bensonz]

and duuurrr duuurr deee durr dduurrr.... read up nob guy... I need to clear more up for you I guess too. I saw you spatting at some dude religiously.... an he liked my post... so I'm gonna set u straight... the 666 number of the beast thing(related to Lucifer.... yes... a bad number.... no!)...... ok... you know the star of david? those 2 triangles.... well the 3 angles on those triangles are all 60degrees... 60, 60, 60... thats where u get 666 from.... congrats.. before u can say anymore the star of david has nothing to do with religion etc.... but yah.... more interesting 666 facts... www = 666 in roman numerals...... also.. www is basically the sign for aquarius...... which is the processional age we just entered.... I think thats more or less it with the 666'ery.... OH WAIT! NO! It isnt! see 666 isn't a bad number at all... they just want you to think it is... same with 9/11 or 911... thats why its the emerg number... but theres a connection between those 2 also.... if you put the hands of a clock at 9 and 11... it makes that 60 degree angle... fun stuff!

p.s. the star of david or 666 is actually the symbol for.... conscious light vehicles... I think thats what its called.... or..... autonomous light vehicles(flying saucers of sorts) something light vehicles anyways....

I wouldnt take anything from him as a compleiment. He hates me morethan he hates himself, nowcalm down, calm down you'll give yourself a heart attack and end up worse off than me. By the way though Im allowed to spat on about whatever I want, thats what everyon esle does, and thats wjhat your doing, everyone know 666 is 999 upside down and 9 x 9 x 9 equals 58 which is the age of elvis in th year 2012 and we all know elvis is the real saviour of mankind. Thank you, thnak you very much...


Are you lonesome tonight.....

[jadeaube]

I'm just teasing bensonz jeeeeeeEEz......uuuuuuSSss... aren't u happy u learned something new though?

[bensonz]

I'm just teasing bensonz jeeeeeeEEz......uuuuuuSSss... aren't u happy u learned something new though?

Of course I am mate, I love learning new things. Dont listen to anything I say Im on E right now for empty, not the drug.

Is that your recording studio, its absolutely freeeeken aweswome.

[jadeaube]

hay!! not nice... I actualy overdosed on e... like 3 years ago.... hey.. maybe I should go do some e.... no the recording studio isn't mine... its one of the boards I've worked on.... they're tight as fuck yo.. pic looks like NASA mission control lol.... I wanna get my own boards eventually though.. thatsthe DigiDesign ICONN... My pic used to be me on the SSL.... SSL is a million dollar board.... sexxaayy ... oh hayyy! if u click on my little profile pic or whatever it takes u 2 a pic of the SSL

[pandorafix]

how could lucifer give men and women 'forbidden knowledge' if his knowledge is counterfeit to begin with?

everything he knows he knows because it has already been thought of., designed., spoken, created etc..
so any illusion he creates is truth spiked with a lie...
.,.thats what makes the illusion sellable...

that means the knowledge that may have been previously unknown always comes attatched to a lie.. and/or a price

so when evil men and women know of this illusion and still CHOOSE death n evil, (this evil can be summed up as WITHOUT love) .. they are choosing the illusory path, the earthly physical world. They willingly accept the pennance to rule in this realm..

quite simply, Christ said (his real name yashua) to know love is to know God
to be WITH love means you are written in God's own heart.. to be WITHOUT love means you are of evil. that's it..you may use that simple reality to measure all of man's ideas against.

[metacomet]

how could lucifer give men and women 'forbidden knowledge' if his knowledge is counterfeit to begin with?

Nobody really 'gives knowledge'.

If I point at a tree in the distance I'm not giving you that tree. I'm just showing you where it is. The tree was already there.

This is the same thing Buddha said come to think of it... there is no 'giving' knowledge. Nobody owns it to give.

Lucifer and Christ were pointing at the same tree in my opinion. Both were punished by the same force. That 'force' wants us to stay away from such knowledge.

[pandorafix]

meta., i agree with everything you just said..

the information exists outside of anybodies acknowledgement.
the "gift" of knowledge i was referring to
is really ann illumination, a path given.. in the end it is a matter of what you do with the directions..
this is the choice the devil had
this is the choice christ had
this is the choice we have..
although i believe our choices are more unique than that of the angels..

[bensonz]

hay!! not nice... I actualy overdosed on e... like 3 years ago.... hey.. maybe I should go do some e.... no the recording studio isn't mine... its one of the boards I've worked on.... they're tight as fuck yo.. pic looks like NASA mission control lol.... I wanna get my own boards eventually though.. thatsthe DigiDesign ICONN... My pic used to be me on the SSL.... SSL is a million dollar board.... sexxaayy ... oh hayyy! if u click on my little profile pic or whatever it takes u 2 a pic of the SSL

Dont you dare go and do drugs your too smart for that, I meant E for empty, I dont do drugs or alcohol at all. I used to but not now. Be good. Ive cubais VST software and a 6 track mixer and a decent studio mike, does the trick for me.

[tjohn]

Physical reality is an illusion. We operate in this illusion, not knowing that is illusion. There is a danger with thinking like that because (for some people) the next step can be the idea that nothing really exists, which isn't true. Things do exist and the physical reality is an illusion only in the sense of our perception of it.

Energy and matter are both made of information that has logic and structure. The difference between energy and matter is that matter is made of information (from light energy photons) which come together in specific organised ways which we percieve as physical.

Therefore we fear death and pain - we are slaves to illusion.Fear and pain are in the head and are illusions if you want to look at it that way. Fear and pain are not real things but are in the mind and with good reason.

The master of this reality and this dimension is NOT the holy creator or the all-is.That can't be correct otherwise the God of "all-is," wouldn't be the God of all. Therefore it would seem that your concept of God has been somewhat confused through religious concepts.

I believe Lucifer was not 'Satan' but was actually another savior entity, like Buddha and Christ. You are almost getting there but these characters are symbolic figures.

Lucifer made the great mistake of giving Human beings 'knowledge'. Forbidden knowledge. Depends on what we mean by Lucifer who may not existed as a real character. It was our DNA (symbolised by the Serpent) that made us wiser than the beasts. This caused humans to seek more enlightenment which was forbidden by our makers because they wanted us to be unquestioning slaves.

Now why on Earth would a benevolent creator God want to keep his children from knowledge? Good point! Instead of having blind faith you are starting to think (unlike some) and it becomes more apparent that religion has twisted the story about our beginning around.

Lucifer was the first savior to humanity. He is now painted as the ultimate villain - 'You stay away from that BAD MAN! Stick to what you KNOW!' Said the Elohim.Yep, that's something like what happened and we were forbidden to seek more knowledge and enlightenment. Hence the forbidden tree of "the knowledge of good and evil" but after they took the fruit and did eat, "the eyes of them both were opened"... to forbidden knowledge. Then humanity's DNA (the Serpent that 'tempted' them to seek knowledge) was debased and the truth was hidden and confused through religion.

And since then religion has been used and is used to control people's minds. Religion appears to bring enlightenment but by filling people's minds with religious doctrines and formal practices, it keeps people under elite control. While people are religious they never figure out the truth. It is only when we start to come out of religion that we begin to see a very different picture than the one(s) we were told.

The Old Gods and the Old Testament are part of an effort to maintain a massive reality hoax.I think you are getting very close! :)

[tjohn]

Christ and Bhudda where both real Humans that lived on the earth Buddha is still in the grave, Christ rose again to defeat eternal death and separation from God for all those who believe. Getting where? Where are you guys going? If you dont change direction you will certainly end up where you heading.

PS. these are only my views, opinions and beliefs based on personal experience, the holy bible and countless scientific facts. I do not attempt to "push them down any ones throat" No one has the right to push there views opinions and beliefs down my throat and state them as fact, regardless if they have proof or not, unless of course I invite you do do so.Countless scientific facts indeed! What countless facts??? How do you know it is Buddha in that grave? It could be anyone for all you know. All I said is that they are symbolic figures (they could be both). I didn't say that some characters didn't exist as real people although it seems very unlikely that they did, at least not as depicted through the 'holy' books.

I don't push anything down your throat but simply try to give the alternative to the brainwashing and control of religion. This is a discussion isn't it? Then how would it be a worthwhile discussion if everyone held the same views? So here's my view (which is still in development) of how the universe was created, take it or leave it, it's up to you.
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showpost.php?p=780498&postcount=4

Then I am sick of people pushing nonsensical religious concepts down my throat! And you even imply threats to me but I should get off your religious high horse if I were you but that would mean that you have to wake up from religious brainwash.

[thirdwave]

Lucifer tried to place himself above God, which tends to slant towards him being the universes first EGOMANIAC





lol, of course Gods part in that was not at all of an Egotistical nature...

Tell me, where did you do your research on Lucifer?

and why did God call him the "bringer of light"?

Personally I think its quite clear that the word lucifer was added by King James anyway as Im not sure it was even in bible texts before that...

like many things that were slipped in there...

[thirdwave]

[/B]




Every human being alive on earth is in moment by moment contact with God and lucifer and who we choose to serve determines the outcome of our very reality now and for eternity.


Do you not find it at all suspicious that we only here "Gods" side of the story regarding Lucifer??

have you a got some books with some views from Lucifer?.. come of his texts?.... some of his friends talking about him?

I agree that a god will always have interaction with all of its creations... ALL OF them and always... every evil and every good person.... because some evil people express their interest in a God... does it make the god evil?... or just their relationship with that god evil??

I know you have your fingers in your ears and are going "blah bla bla,....im not listening" .... but these questions you cant answer are very valid to exposing how wrong you are.

[tjohn]

I didnt mean you, I meant generally. However you have just STATED its brain washing and contol, once again, you cant get away with making statements of fact that are only your opinion. You wouldn't bother reading the countless facts if I sent them to you. But If you are intersted we can start with countless scientific facts that proove the genesis account of creation to be true and make a complete mockery of evilution. Rgearding buddha still in the grave, evidently, he did not rise again, and neither did his followesr claiom that he did. I didnt mean his bones have been found in the north east side of Bulaweyon grave site, whilst the bible claims at leat 500 people witnessed Christ alive after his death.

Further more I could take it as insult that you are implying I am brainwashed, If I chose to. Do you get my point?Yes I do get your point but listen, I was once in (more or less) the same 'place' as you but now I see things much more clearly - I began to realise that religion in all it's forms, is about control and brainwashing people so they can be controlled by the 'Elite'.

Many people on here would agree with me on that at least but all I ask is that people do their own thinking instead of the religious concepts that they have been told to believe without thinking.

[2013]

[/B]


Sometimes for evil (disinformation, delusion and outright lies) to prevail good people just need to do and say nothing. I have no problem with people having a view point, however most people here think they are The All Knowing All Seeing Brown Eye Zen Master, preaching to their stupid deciples. However I agree, if you do good, think good, good things will happen. The Creator of the universe set it up to work like that.

Every human being alive on earth is in moment by moment contact with God and lucifer and who we choose to serve determines the outcome of our very reality now and for eternity.

PS. these are only my views, opinions and beliefs based on personal experience, the holy bible and countless scientific facts. I do not attempt to "push them down any ones throat" No one has the right to push there views opinions and beliefs down my throat and state them as fact, regardless if they have proof or not, unless of course I invite you do do so.

What is the sound of one hand clapping?
According to my stepdaughter a slap in the face!!
Every human being alive on earth is in moment by moment contact with God and lucifer and who we choose to serve determines the outcome of our very reality now and for eternity.
This is like the old native indian myth of the two wolves that live inside of us . one good the other evil , which ones wins , the one we feed :D

[bensonz]

According to my stepdaughter a slap in the face!!

This is like the old native indian myth of the two wolves that live inside of us . one good the other evil , which ones wins , the one we feed :D

Yes it does deosnt it, someone posted that Indian proverb somewhere on a thread - it was for sharing uplifting things, hardly any one has posted anything. Not many have anything positive to say, sadlu.

Lol at slap in the face, accept with me its my wife, not really, im too fast. Years of training.

[bensonz]

how could lucifer give men and women 'forbidden knowledge' if his knowledge is counterfeit to begin with?

everything he knows he knows because it has already been thought of., designed., spoken, created etc..
so any illusion he creates is truth spiked with a lie...
.,.thats what makes the illusion sellable...

that means the knowledge that may have been previously unknown always comes attatched to a lie.. and/or a price

so when evil men and women know of this illusion and still CHOOSE death n evil, (this evil can be summed up as WITHOUT love) .. they are choosing the illusory path, the earthly physical world. They willingly accept the pennance to rule in this realm..

quite simply, Christ said (his real name yashua) to know love is to know God
to be WITH love means you are written in God's own heart.. to be WITHOUT love means you are of evil. that's it..you may use that simple reality to measure all of man's ideas against.

But wouldnt someone without love still be loveable and in need of love, and still capable of receiving and accepting love, evnetually not neccessarily evil?

Im talking about the human condition of course, not Satan/Lucifer's condition? Although a friend of mine said that God still even loves Satan, which I found to be an intreging proposition, and not totally inoncievable when I think about it, Given God's capaicty for grace and forgiveness, having said that Im not sure if God's forgiveness and grace extends to satan, however given that Satan was God,s number one angel, I can conclude that God may still loves him. Wow, never thought that before.

[tjohn]

My dear brother, thank you for at least acknowledging my point.

I wouldnt be here if I wasnt doing my own thinking, and I certainly didnt come here to end up spending the last two months defending a biblical faith in christianity as a matter of personal choice (not brainwashing by the so called global Elite.) I went to a buhdist temple to learmn meditation technique today. If I was a died in the wool "brain washed" fundamentalist Christian, I wouldnt entertain such a thing. Neither would my best friend be a homosexual, even though I am heterosexual. Again you cant make assumptions as to where someone "more or less is" I was feeling empathy (yes I am an 'empath') and I once was religious and have been at a similar stages in my spiritual journey to yourself, "more or less."
Regardless of an opinion on the bible, there is such a thing as biblical fact IE the bible states this.The bible does contain some fact of course but the bible states what exactly? That it's true? Just because something is written down in a book it doesn't make it true.

Many here pooh pooh the bible as a fairy tale and then expect to be able to use it as a proof to win there arguements. Well to tell you the truth, the bible is a hodge-podge of all sorts and it contains some truth and a lot of nonsense.

but after they took the fruit and did eat, "the eyes of them both were opened"... to forbidden knowledge (a direct quote from genisis you have cherry picked to back up your arguement whilst on the other hand stating it is the mind control Brain washing tool of the elite??? That's right, except it wasn't exactly cherry picking but what I said is in context with several (consecutive) verses in Genesis.

If you take the Serpent as symbolic for DNA, hence the bringer of life and knowledge, those verse in Genesis make sense - whereas, if you take the religious view, it does not make sense and is full of contradictions. In other words, the story of how we were created and what happened and so on has been turned upside down.

So you tell me, why would God not want our eyes to be opened?

I have a valid answer to that question but religious people don't. The answer is that it wasn't God that forbade our eyes to be opened, it was the gods (Elohim) who wanted us to serve or slave for them without question. That's why there is a forbidden "tree" of the "knowledge of good and evil" of which when humans took the "fruit" (means the result) "the eyes of them both were opened" to forbidden knowledge and enlightenment.

Also many dont belive in god and or a god, and then blame this non existent entity for the problems in the world.Well, I know that God exists but God isn't a he or a she, isn't good or bad and isn't the God as depicted in the bible. Simply put, the God of all is the Mind from which all the information in universe came/comes in an act of creation.

There is the constructive/creative side that brings things together as well as the destructive side to the universe and that is a scientific fact. My 'source' is the creative and can be summed up in one word, which is love.

Then love compels me to be honest with myself and others, so I have to tell the truth as I see it. I cannot simply agree with everything everyone says when I plainly see religious deceptions and the way religion controls people's minds. You can take what I say or leave it. But of course you would have difficulty accepting what I say, when your mind is being influenced and controlled by religion.


There a ceratin rules guidlenes and boudaries for holding meanginful objective debate. Here is an example of how many arguements come accross here, and they go totally unchecked.

God hates chess, he's a backgammon guy, and your rite whoever gets the most assholes wins. Actually God is half man half woman and half she goat. I forgot what the other half was, oh that’s right it’s a cross between a dolphin and a kangaroo.

Which reminds me of a joke, what do you get if you cross an elephant with a kangaroo? Great big holes all over Australia. Actually scientists have discovered that such an animal actually existed 98 trillion years BC and that Michael Phelps is directly descended from a pod of dope smoking dolphins which originated in a small pool North West of Equatorial Guinea in the late 18th century BC anodominoes. Another great game God loves, dominoes, he’s wicked at it. Once Satan (god called him Stan then), beat him three nil so that’s when God said, and low “Fuck this for a game of soldiers” and cast him out into outer darkness where there was weeping and gnashing of teeth. Then God got hammered on the blood of a hundred and forty four thousand Jehovah’s witnesses and practiced nailing Jesus to the cross for fun whilst dancing up and down on his grave singing hallefuckingluelia until a gaggle of angels came in and said “Fuck this Father God, we haven’t had any sleep for 10, million years do you realize what fucken time it is?” And God, who liked to be called Katherine by his close friends, said “Thou shalt shut the fuck up don’t you know who I am...I am that I am just ask Stan, I don’t do time I’m eternally on Garden leave, and I'd like to see what you could do in six days, now you lot can get the fuck out of here right now with Stan.

It’s true you know, because the vibration in my sphincter muscle proves it to me.Now are you talking gibberish or what? Yes I know you are making a joke to illustrate but frankly, that's "more or less" the way much of religion comes across to me.

[2013]

Yes it does deosnt it, someone posted that Indian proverb somewhere on a thread - it was for sharing uplifting things, hardly any one has posted anything. Not many have anything positive to say, sadlu.

Lol at slap in the face, accept with me its my wife, not really, im too fast. Years of training.

I was thinking and it's not my idea , Heaven and Hell are not places but states of mind or being .Drinking a cup of tea listening to bing crosby might be a maiden aunts idea of heaven but to other it would be hell .There are many layers :D

[tiamet2012]

good one pain death we should be happy someone has died to be in spirit but nooo we dont do that pain seems to be welcome anger violent you name it feelings

I think the beast is the one to save our butts but its not like written perfect in the bible its all messed up so is the other fifteen hundred bibles written in other languages its just to confuse an fight about...so were distracted from the real thing happening lol wow

[metacomet]

Okay if you are happy with then thats fine, I dont know who Elohim is, never heard of him, but would it be too much to aks if you keep the bible out of it?


*sigh*

Did you seriously just mention Elohim and Bible in the same sentence ... and ask us to separate them...

I mean...

cmon.

Elohim is a biblical term, they are the watchers, that is also a biblical term, used in the book of Genesis.

"let us create him in our image" - the Elohim said this. Not God. God created the Elohim and all the Universe. The Elohim created us. This is the story as it is put plain and simple in the Old Testament.

This is a rabbit hole you probably don't want to go down. It hasn't rattled my faith but it does rattle others. The fact that you and most Christians don't know who the real Gods in the Old Testament are is not your fault - just do yourself a favor and don't get all upset if others speak about it. You don't need to listen to any of this 'poppycock'.

[detroit313]

Lucifer is pure evil.

The End.

[tjohn]

Lucifer is pure evil.

The End.That's a contradiction because Lucifer means light - go figure.

Oh and another thing, have you noticed that religious clergy often ware dark garb?

[tjohn]

*sigh*

Did you seriously just mention Elohim and Bible in the same sentence ... and ask us to separate them...

I mean...

cmon.

Elohim is a biblical term, they are the watchers, that is also a biblical term, used in the book of Genesis.

"let us create him in our image" - the Elohim said this. Not God. God created the Elohim and all the Universe. The Elohim created us. This is the story as it is put plain and simple in the Old Testament.

This is a rabbit hole you probably don't want to go down. It hasn't rattled my faith but it does rattle others. The fact that you and most Christians don't know who the real Gods in the Old Testament are is not your fault - just do yourself a favor and don't get all upset if others speak about it. You don't need to listen to any of this 'poppycock'.Thank-you, metacomet.

[tjohn]

So you once walked in the light until you swallowed someone lies? - I note you have not been forthrite with what texts and teachers you are learning from...?

I empathise with all you guys (that makes me an Empath too, I guess) which is why I dance around and around the mulburry bush with a lot of you. you, if I didnt care, I wouldnt bother (which I know a lot you wouldbe happier with) Some of you I dont bother with because it like casting pearls of wisdom to swine. ( at this stage Im not including you in that context)

Oh right, I guess that will be the scripture you deem to be factual in order to win an arguement, excellent you agree with me then.

I am not saying that just becuase it is written down makes it true, I am however saying that what is written down is in fact what is written down.

To tell me the truth? Thats a good one tjohn?

The point is mate, I dont take this view

Sorry, its not the religeous view, it is the biblical fact. Can you not see that what you are doing is simply making very poor and ludicrous attempts to make the bible out to be saying and meaning something it doesnt say or mean?

And you think that an intelligent reasonable human being regardless of relgion can't see that? And the reason you give for people who dont fall for what you are falling for is brain washing by the illuminati. Good God man, wake up.

I'm amazed that none of you "geniuses cant see it yourselves. I think who ever it is that is teaching you is a very evil stanic genius, because he has got you running around in circles your so blind you cant even see what it is you are saying.

Now if you take the bible to be the word of God (perish the thought) may I point out God doenst try to prove that he has written the bible or to prove that he exists in the bible, it simply states: In the beginning God...would it not be a safe assumption for satan to say or at least suggest the exact opposite. Of course it would, thats his job. To deceieve. IE To turn it upside down, and you're getting in on the act. You guys are stating In the beginning satan... and too some one who is filled with the holy spirit of truth, everything you say is clearly satanic in origin. I am not filled with the spirit of anit-christ.

In other words, the story of how we were created and what happened and so on has been turned upside down. I repeat, the bible gives an account, it is you guys who are trying to turn what it says upside down. And your reason for this is that you think the illumitai elites wrote the bible to control us and brain wash us and then have the audacity to quote scriture. Poppycock.

God does want them to be opened, you say you where once a Christian does this mean you at one stage accepted that you where a sinner and asked Christ to save you? If so, then your eyes where opened, now satan is trying to blind you. Now if you did do that IE got saved, then this is just a phase you are going through and you will come to your senses again eventually.

Okay if you are happy with then thats fine, I dont know who Elohim is, never heard of him, but would it be too much to aks if you keep the bible out of it?

Correct, I call Him/her/it God

Correct I call it/ him/her (most probably a her (kidding girls), satan, its also a biblical fact
.
Correct, God is love, another biblical fact.

Great then tell me where your getting all this stuff from? Be honest now...

You are allowed to call at is you see, it, its not neccessarily truth

I
No one is asking you too, and the "illumanti elite" certainly arent either.

Again this is your view point and an assumption and I (at least) am not letting you get away with it with me.

thanks but I already know that, but If you are going to "preach what you believe as truth" and attack the foundations of my beliefs I'm afraid leaving it alone is not an option for me.

Now, I do take that as an insult. (may I point out, I am not a member of any organised religion, denomination or sect) No one is influencing me or controlling me. ( I do try to hand my will and my life over to the care of loving God as I understand him on daily basis with a simple prayer of thy will not mine be done) and I often need to say it several times a day (especially during conversations with some people here)because it easy for me to take my will back and want to take control, it is at times like this I lose my cool and say and do things I wish I hadnt done. IE The human condition, Im human, just incase you thought I might be a reptilean shapeshifter)

Fact: The bible is a book anyone can buy in a shop, you do realises that dont you? IE you dont have to go to a religeous institution to buy it. Another Fact: I can read.

We can always agree to disagree and remain civl with one another, perhasp even friends. I appreciate your attempts to answer my queries in as an objective an approach as possible. I compliment you for that. Howevr you have not provided an adequate answer and or a full answer and you freely admit you are still trying to figure out what you believe. I hope you find what you are looking for, I am not boasting when I say, I have already found it and I think you will eventually realise that you have too.

I will not go to war to defend my beliefs but I will chose death rather than denounce them. I will go to war to defend my myself and my family however.

Love is not all we need, a lot of people love evil, love themsleves, hate God and hate everyone else. People need God, and it is God that comes looking for us, and us that try to hide ourselves from Him. What ever "fig leaf" people are hiding under God sees through it. He love you so much He died so that you may live. Now theres is some preaching for you. nad some Truth. I dont want to win an arguement. I want to win your soul.Whew, what a mess. You can't win my soul, it is me. Then I'm sorry I rattled your cage. I was trying to alert you and others that many are prisoners to religion which is a tool of the 'elite' that is used to control people's minds.

Look around you. Look at Christian, Judaism, Islam and Buddhism, look at all the religions and then tell me if religion isn't controlling people's minds.

Of course it is but who is doing the controlling? Well it all comes down to 'faith' doesn't it and faith means trust. So who are religious people trusting? They usually think they are trusting God but in actual fact are trusting men and books written by men - promoted by those who control people's minds so people become their prisoners and under their control without people realising it.

Those who are behind religion know a lot about the human mind and they use that knowledge to control people. It is put into people's minds that the way to be 'spiritual' is to follow a religious path - then of course, sheep walk on paths and paths are for sheep and the sheep are told what to think, without them knowing that they have been told what to think.

Then we don't have to belong to a religion to fall for at least some of the mind control because religion is all around us and religious concepts are used in everyday language... our very language has evolved to take in religious concepts. That's not saying that all of those concepts are bad in themselves but they have hidden meanings and are used to control people's minds.

[metacomet]

Lucifer is pure evil.

The End.

That's what I thought!

I might still think that ;)

Like I said, Jesus and Lucifer could have been polar opposite teachers to the same interdimensional key...

Maybe Lucifer is the key that buys into this false reality - this seems more likely... :mad: History is so blatantly re-written it's frustrating guesswork.

[metacomet]

So who are religious people trusting? They usually think they are trusting God but in actual fact are trusting men and books written by men - promoted by those who control people's minds so people become their prisoners and under their control without people realising it.


Amen to this.

Jesus Christ himself historically spoke out against all organized religion and money handlers... money peddling in the name of God is an abomination that goes on daily . Organized religion is a physical form of spirituality which means nothing in comparison to heaven, Jesus was constantly trying to get that message across!

[bensonz]

Amen to this.

Jesus Christ himself historically spoke out against all organized religion and money handlers... money peddling in the name of God is an abomination that goes on daily . Organized religion is a physical form of spirituality which means nothing in comparison to heaven, Jesus was constantly trying to get that message across!




sigh still banging on about organized religeon,

[tjohn]

Sorry I didnt realise - can you refer me to the scripture verse please young metacmoet and perhaps the bible version,I would be glad to become better informed. If you like me,want to save souls then save me, if on the other hand you just want to win an arguements, please clarify, your motivation. Im all for diving down rabbit holes in search of truth brother, bring it dont just sing it.Elohim (or Elohym) is a Hebrew plural word which means gods, but they changed it to mean 'God' and translate it in the bible as 'God' (except for one or two exceptions where it remains translated as gods).

So when it says, "God (Elohim) said,"let us make man in our image and likeness" the "us" and "our" is referring to gods, not God.

Likewise after the 'fall' where Adam and Eve took from the forbidden 'tree' which is symbolic... it says, "Now the man has become like one of us, knowing good and evil" It is therefore confirmed that the "us" are a group of gods.

[bensonz]

Elohim (or Elohym) is a Hebrew plural word which means gods, but they changed it to mean 'God' and translate it in the bible as 'God' (except for one or two exceptions where it remains translated as gods).

No THEY didnt.

So when it says, "God (Elohim) said,"let us make man in our image and likeness" the "us" and "our" is referring to gods, not God.

No it doesn't

Likewise after the 'fall' where Adam and Eve took from the forbidden 'tree' which is symbolic... it says, "Now the man has become like one of us, knowing good and evil" It is therefore confirmed that the "us" are a group of gods.

No it isnt.

[tjohn]

Benson, I do appreciate you spent a lot of time and effort writing it. But apart from it being a mess, the subject itself is a mess too. No offence was intended.

[tjohn]

I am having problems here because no matter which "Quote" button I press it takes me to the wrong page, so I have to use the quick reply. What you say Benson makes sense in your mind but it is full of contradictions and religious ideas. I would have liked to answer everything you said but it was such a mess... that's not saying that you didn't put a lot of effort into it, I know you did but the subject can get very complex through religious concepts and doublethink.

[thirdwave]

[

He is from Northen Ireland which is where I am from. He is brilliant and I love his work on symbol literacy, but he has lost the plot by suggesting lucifer was trying to rescue us and that crowley is a great bloke. OKay guys I'll leave you alone now.

He's getting rich, your getting robbed. In more ways than one
Nice chatting with you all. Thanks fior listening and responding. Lucifer bless you.

First of all he has never implied once that Crowley was a good bloke.... this shows your ignorance again .... in the seminar where he was asked about Crowley and another author he quite clearly and openly stated his reasons for bringing up their works... but you seem to be distracted by another view point...

I am also yet to come across works where he has suggested Lucifer was trying to save us... from what i have seen he thinks Lucifer is about Sun worship... (Aton)... he has come from the perspective of what the word has meant over the years and what relevance it has today..... proper research, not a bag full of blind faith and and a rule of thumb on what not to read.

and you also know what you are getting before you buy any of his works as there is stack loads of free stuff on you tube....

[octopusrex]

Get this if you get anything: Lucifer serves The One God.

Regarding brainwashing.. Prabhupad has some interesting points about brainwashing.

[thirdwave]

Amen to this.

Jesus Christ himself historically spoke out against all organized religion and money handlers... money peddling in the name of God is an abomination that goes on daily . Organized religion is a physical form of spirituality which means nothing in comparison to heaven, Jesus was constantly trying to get that message across!

constantly?... I dont think we have enough in the bible to know this was constant.... we have a few phrases where he states this... as well as many other phrases that lead us to believe he was a spirituality awake individual... the thing is, we also have a number of phrases that show him to be a very un spiritual individual.... and even a bit of an arse hole.

So what are we left with... a book talking of a man could easily not have even existed and that has been contradicted on other old texts who seems to have a number of personalities...

IMO this means that maybe Jesus was not one person.... and the story of Jesus was not littoral or at least not how the bible depicts it..

those decent texts could may well have been taken from an enlightened individual... but seeing as we know many people were killed for expressing things that the governing bodies did not want expressed we don't know who said it... or how many people said it...

History is written by the winners.

there may have been a book of texts at some point talking about valid spiritual knowledge... But I believe the bible has never really expressed it and Christianity was never the intention behind the texts.

but of course I am also open to the fact that it was all written by intelligent deceivers that new the human race like the back of their hand.

[bensonz]

This ancient text was found under neath an ancient pyrimid. Last Thursday. The illuminati have tried to hide the truth for centuries - finally the truth is out. Be free earthlings, be free.


In the begining, well actually it was after lunch 48 days after the fact, but hey, you cant have everyting, God who loves, dominoes, he’s wicked at it, was having a game with Satan. And Satan (god called him Stan then), beat him three nil so that’s when God said, and low “Fuck this for a game of soldiers” and cast him out into outer darkness where there was weeping and gnashing of teeth. Stan called out, but Katehrine, I dont have any teeth, so god spoke and teeth where provided.

Then God, on the evening of the thrid day, got hammered on the blood of a hundred and forty four thousand Jehovah’s witnesses and practiced nailing Jesus to the cross for fun whilst dancing up and down on his grave singing hallefuckingluelia until a gaggle of angels came in and said “Fuck this Father God, we haven’t had any sleep for 10, million years do you realize what fucken time it is?” And God, who liked to be called Katherine by his close friends, said “Thou shalt shut the fuck up don’t you know who I AM?...I AM what I AM just ask Stan, I don’t do time I’m eternally on Garden leave, and I'd like to see what you could do in six days, now you lot can get the fuck out of here right now with Stan. God later wrote a song about it and it went staright to number 7 on the pop charts. The number 7 has a whole lot of deeper meanings that I cant go into right now coz Im being watched.

Now this might sound hard to believe but if your truely enlightened like me you will probably be expereinecing a low vibration in your sphincter muscle, this will proof to you that these latest text are true, if you do not experience this tingling sensation, it is recommended that you disapear up your own arse.

Editors note: All previous posts by Bensonz, where possible on this thread, have been removed because they where written prior to his awakening. And he has been given the new spiritual name of Znosneb in keeping with his converstion.

PS:Another great duet by God and Leonard Cohen later covered by Alan Neville can be dowloaded free at itunes called: Like a Turd on The Wave.

[thirdwave]

Satan and Lucifer are not the same thing.... Christianity simply put them in the same bracket...

but research does not prove this to be true.

[ie11]

Physical reality is an illusion. We operate in this illusion, not knowing that is illusion. Therefore we fear death and pain - we are slaves to illusion.

The only way to end our slavery is to attain knowledge. This is a fundamental truth. Knowledge dissolves illusion like light dissolves darkness.



The Old Testament creation myth has been dissected so many times. I am now starting to realize one of the most startling theories.

This physical world and all within are illusion. The master of this reality and this dimension is NOT the holy creator or the all-is. This physical reality and dimension is another form of separation from God, another form of 'hell' and it is our destiny to escape it. We have been given instructions for this process of escape many times , from the Buddha, from Christ and possibly from Lucifer himself.


Is Lucifer a slandered character in history? Maybe so!

I believe true evil exists - and that the truest evil is illusion.

If the masters of this reality wanted to keep us in illusion, they would condemn and vilify anyone trying to break us free from illusion.

I believe Lucifer was not 'Satan' but was actually another savior entity, like Buddha and Christ.

Lucifer made the great mistake of giving Human beings 'knowledge'. Forbidden knowledge.

Now why on Earth would a benevolent creator God want to keep his children from knowledge? Because the Old Gods were not of the holy spirit . Just as this physical reality is not of the holy spirit . The 'Elohim' and this reality they have trapped us in are DENSE and of LOW VIBRATION - they have always and will always manipulate us to keep us in this same dense vibration. Any knowledge passed towards humanity which can free us from this reality prism is FORBIDDEN and is almost always perverted in the form of organized religion.


Lucifer was the first savior to humanity. He is now painted as the ultimate villain - 'You stay away from that BAD MAN! Stick to what you KNOW!' Said the Elohim.



I was born and raised Christian. To come to these conclusions is not necessarily 'easy' but many others have come to it before me and it makes perfect sense to me.


The Old Gods were not the true great spirit. They were our slave masters. They are still around. They ground us to this illusory reality and forbid us from attaining knowledge that can free us.


Lucifer was not the embodiment of evil. He was a servant of the Old Gods who grew what we call a 'conscience' and attempted to save us.

Lucifers payment from history is to be painted as the ultimate villain to humanity.

The Old Gods and the Old Testament are part of an effort to maintain a massive reality hoax.

But Metacomet! How can Lucifer and Christ be brothers of the same cause?

Didn't Lucifer tempt Christ in the desert?


Absolutely not. Christ was tempted by the servants of the Old Gods - demons. Demons still exist and serve the great beast. The great beast is this illusory dimension. It is a massive hoax and many agents serve to maintain it. I believe Christ was tempted by agents of the beast to convince him that there was no saving humanity from physicality.

The true Lucifer or morning star would have been right by Jesus Christ' side - this is a thought far too revolutionary for most to accept. But all truth is revolutionary.


My opinion is that most information regarding Lucifer is tainted. Including where he came from, which deities he is a part of etc.



I believe the real enemy of mankind is this illusory reality - the Beast. The Beast consumes energy and separates matter from spirit - producing what we know as 'evil'. There must be a primeval source for this consciousness and I would not be surprised if Belial was another name for that.

The Beast is most likely a known ultra-dimensional entity and was probably given a name at some point. It's existence and the nature of the reality it has us in is now considered occult knowledge.

My soul inhabits a physical body in this physical dimension. I cannot with this physical body, deny the laws of this physical dimension. However, being a multi-dimensional being (like all Humans) I exist above and beyond the physical and can overcome it in countless ways. The basic practice of this we call 'survival'. The advanced practice of overcoming physical reality with the spirit is called transcendentalism.

Humanity is at an enormous gap between basic survival and transcendentalism. This is why you challenge me to overcome laws of physics using a physical body. The concept of metaphysics has to deal with this.

No matter what my beliefs, I cannot swim through the air or fly in this dimension. The existence of other dimensions (i.e. Heaven) where such things are possible has been kept from myself and others. The method to attaining that dimension and overcoming this physical reality has also been withheld.

Those attempting to teach us these things have been punished and we ourselves punished for listening.


There is no escaping this reality or defying it's laws unless my consciousness leaves this physical dimension and this material body. The methods of doing this, apart from actually dying, are transcendental meditation and other forms of dimensional travel.

Anyone attempting to teach me or fellow humans how to leave this dimension through the above mentioned methods will either be murdered, slandered, sacrificed, or their teachings will be purposefully washed out and mis-translated. All of the above has already happened to more than one person. The first person in history that we are aware of doing this is Lucifer.

Reading! I was going through John Rhodes description of the old Gods when I got the urge to make this thread.

The Old Gods or Elohim have been found out countless times ...

They created us and kept us from knowledge - this is a cosmic crime. The holy spirit circumvented this crime by producing fruits of knowledge - which I believe were psychedelics! Psychedelic substances are vehicles for multi-dimensional information!

Humanity was encouraged by the morning star to explore it's consciousness by eating the fruit. When our consciousness expanded the old Gods were infuriated and Lucifer was politically and historically assassinated. This is why the the Old Testament God told Adam and Eve they would be made to hate the serpent.

'You stay away from that bad man! His knowledge is forbidden to you!'

'You stay away from those ICKY- consciousness expanding drugs! Get a job!'

It is the same exact theme and the same evil forces attempting to hold us back from discovering our multi-dimensional nature.


Meyacomet

what an amazing post and . thoughtful reflective insightful

this is an intreguing and amazing post.

matches what the gnostic texts say and what the gospell of st thomas says and links in to much else.

but - as in many things, but perhaps more so in the greatest ones - the same book of truth (or statement x or y, or whatever it is ) may offer only further misguidance to those who are misguided or hiders of the truth of them selves, and offers further guidance to those on the right middle path of guidence/submission/truth (whatever that is.).

?

Anyway. its an amazing theory you got there. even if your wrong at least i give you credit for being honest and saying it like it is in yourself ...

As always though i will have questions ....

[dedicate]

Saying Lucifer is trying to save humanity is like saying McDonalds is trying to save the Cows. With enough words and manipulation of the facts, one could make the arguement.

[deca]

All that glisters may not be gold:rolleyes:

Has the devil got a PR agent?

[thirdwave]

Saying Lucifer is trying to save humanity is like saying McDonalds is trying to save the Cows. With enough words and manipulation of the facts, one could make the arguement.

the thing is, i hear allot of people here say stuff like "rubbish"... or "totaly not true" and like what you have said when implying that this thiory is way off the mark...

Why not present information that proves this to be the case?

its not like saying McDonalds is trying to save cows at all...

Because there is genuine information that can be studied and looked at that can raise the possibility.
The only thing we have that shows Lucifer to be evil, was the inclusion of his name in the bible by King James, where it implied Lucifer is Satan.... another name which can be studied and researched further to find out there is more to the name than the bible makes out.

But you are more than free to provide the facts and info which make this theory to be crazy.

[dedicate]

I have given the data, thirdwave. Look back at the previous posts on this very thread. Nobody seems too interested in the understanding that Lucifers are a group of sub-Angelic beings who gain by the use of the human mind (Probably Lucifer is their Group Spirit King). We are tools to them and nothing more. Much like McDonalds and it's relation to the Cow.

Then, we find on this site,,, so many threads giving great adhorations to this being Lucifer. Even though there is maybe two mentions of him in the Bible.

But bring up Jesus, and we find virtually no interest by those same people. They will say, "He didn't exists", "He is a made-up fabrication of the controllers", or other such things. But Lucifer,, he was a really good guy.

[metacomet]

So much Dogma in the world. Look at everyone afraid to discuss Lucifer as anything more than 'the Devil'. He was the morning star, an angel at one point, a bringer of knowledge, forbidden or otherwise :

Why can't we talk about Lucifer objectively? I hear alot of empty gestures and implications that I am glorifying the devil etc. :rolleyes:

Saying Lucifer is trying to save humanity is like saying McDonalds is trying to save the Cows. With enough words and manipulation of the facts, one could make the arguement.

I agree.

I believe there is an illusion ( as stated ) : that illusion is evil.

Somebody sold us into that illusion.

Was it Lucifer? Or was it the Elohim?

Why would the Elohim (wrathful creator Gods) hate Lucifer?

Because he came and played with their creation... gave them a form of consciousness (ego) that they shouldn't have had perhaps.

Lucifer could have been trying to free us from the Elohim and in the same move trying to take control of humanity - I wouldn't put this beyond him.

Plenty of destroyers come in the form of Saviors... this is the definition of Luciferian politics I believe.

[metacomet]

But bring up Jesus, and we find virtually no interest by those same people. They will say, "He didn't exists", "He is a made-up fabrication of the controllers", or other such things. But Lucifer,, he was a really good guy.

I talk about Jesus all the time. In this very thread.

WTF?

[deca]

bing bang ying yang good bad jc evil dude fucking dualism I am here to party:p:p

[dedicate]

Yes. You said Jesus was Lucifer.

I no-where said, Lucifer is some totally evil being.. like McDonalds is Lucifer and the Lucifarinais. They couldn't care less about us. We are cows to them.

Now, Satan. That something else, isn't it. Satan is the force, being, fallen-arch-angel,, who loves seeing us fall along with him. He loves it. Satanic people love the same.

[dedicate]

Elohim is also a class of being. EL -- god, class of being. Far beyond human understanding,, but is realated to the Creation of Solar Systems. Jahova is probably one of these Elohim, and was in charge of the Hebrew/Jewish race This Lucifer, could be a high being, but in charge of the Lucifers sub-class of Angels. Lucifer has no allegence to the human race.

Any contact Lucifer/lucifers had with the human race, may have served our humanity, in the awakening to self-consciousness determination evolution. Fine. But, they got something out of it too, and there is no need to think much of them. At this point they are mostly users.

[thirdwave]

I have given the data, thirdwave. Look back at the previous posts on this very thread. Nobody seems too interested in the understanding that Lucifers are a group of sub-Angelic beings who gain by the use of the human mind (Probably Lucifer is their Group Spirit King). We are tools to them and nothing more. Much like McDonalds and it's relation to the Cow.

But you are now depicting Lucifer as something different to what the bible does.... and you are going by a source that you most likely oppose anyway...

can you provide the info you have come across that leads you to believe that Lucifer is lots of angel beings?

either way, it contradicts the bible.


Then, we find on this site,,, so many threads giving great adhorations to this being Lucifer. Even though there is maybe two mentions of him in the Bible.

But bring up Jesus, and we find virtually no interest by those same people. They will say, "He didn't exists", "He is a made-up fabrication of the controllers", or other such things. But Lucifer,, he was a really good guy.

this is very simple... Jesus has influenced the western world for generations and generations and generations... he has lead the law either genuinely or not genuinely over the years on most of the planet.

Lucifer has simply just been branded as the bad guy who people who trust in "God" should avoid... simply by what you say, 2 brief mentions in the bible, introduced in later translations..

I think Jesus has had quite enough publicity if you ask me and his words have been made very open to people.... Lucifer?, feel free to pass me on some official texts from the mouth of Lucifer.

I don't get it how some dont seem to understand the impacted and power the bible has had on the world.... its like some have this illusion that Jesus has been this underground Guru who people have always ignored... and that those who get to feel the Jesus vibe are always saved...

Well no, Jesus has been a massive commercialised person with many groups having their own take on him... every text that has been permitted has always been made available at a massive scale... other texts have been destroyed and no one on this form... no Christians today has ever read them.



The Snake tricked Eve into eating an apple. That's not good. He should have told her the truth.

and who was the snake? why did God create it?

If the garden of eden was meant to be heaven on earth then who let it in?



"In the later part of the Lemurian Epoch man did not see the physical world as we do now. To him the desire world was much more real. He had the dream consciousness of the Moon Period -- an inner picture consciousness; he was unconscious of the world outside himself. The Lucifers had no difficulty in manifesting to this inner consciousness and calling his attentionon to his ouward shape, which he had not theretofore perceived. They told him how he could cease being simply the servant of external powers and could become his own master and like unto the gods, 'knowing good and evil'. They also made clear to him that he need no apprension if his body died, inasmuch as he had within himself the creative ability to form new bodies without the mediation of the Angels. All of which information was given with the one purpose of turning his consciousness outward for the acquirement of knowledge" And...

"This the Lucifers did that they might profit by it themselves -- to gain knowledge as man acquired it." pp 287

ok, so this looks like a view on Lucifer... who wrote it?... what person met him or new him? .... who named him "Bringer of light" .. and more to the point why on earth did they call him "light bringer" (which is what the word means) on the bible?

According to my Rosicrucian text -- The Lucifers refers to a sub-class of Angels, who fell behind in their development during the Moon Period of Earth. They are not as advanced as Angels,, but more advanced than humans. Still, like angels, they have no ability to gain knowledge (memory, theory, etc..) They are "half way betwen man who needs a brain,, and the Angels who need none". Angels are a group of beings who are able and willing to work with humanity, but on the spiritual level, like in dreams or through psychic awareness. The Lucifers can also make contact with mankind through gross psychism and dreams.. but to their own advantage? Getting what they don't have from us? from a low psychic level. (Rosicrucian Cosm-Conception pp286)

Just a hint...

What is your take on the Rosicrucian?

[metacomet]

Yes. You said Jesus was Lucifer.

:confused: No.
I said Jesus and Lucifer gave separate paths to humans to 'get out' of this dimension.

That's why they're referred to as brothers by some people... which sounds insane.

Perhaps Lucifer sold us into ego and Jesus saves us from it. Plenty of brothers come in the form of good and evil.

[dedicate]

Now, all you people with this great interest in Lucifer. Please drop it. Why not take an interest in the Great and Exhalted Beings who have an interest in the advancement of humanity? These are proven people and beings and teachings that you can prove to yourself without much trouble. See the lake? Is it nice to swim? Take the leap. Find out.

[kblood]

I have for a long time believed that Lucifer cant be opposing god. God is all creation, therefore also Lucifer. Lucifer is just another part of the greater puzzle making it all fit together.

Not that it makes him worthy of worship or anything, but he does have his uses.

Then again I cant really say if he exists or not :)

[metacomet]

Any contact Lucifer/lucifers had with the human race, may have served our humanity, in the awakening to self-consciousness determination evolution. Fine. But, they got something out of it too, and there is no need to think much of them. At this point they are mostly users.

DEFINITELY.

If demons or other dimensionals exist - and they do - and they feed on human beings, where did they get the arrangement for this?

Did God not 'cast down' Satan into the physical realm? Absolutely. That is the story. Along with many fallen angels who are now the demons of our familiarity.

The fact is this didn't happen in the past... it's happening right now. We are in a dimensional prison and we are preyed upon by some pretty bad things all of which want to experience physicality through us. This is where 'sin' and the desire to throw ones life away comes from in my opinion.

Lucifer made us aware of our nakedness by giving us the ego... perhaps he trapped us in this dimension. He revealed us the naked pleasures of sin but it was perhaps a lesson, necessary... a trial... like Christ's temptation in the desert.

[metacomet]

I have for a long time believed that Lucifer cant be opposing god. God is all creation, therefore also Lucifer. Lucifer is just another part of the greater puzzle making it all fit together.

Not that it makes him worthy of worship or anything, but he does have his uses.

Then again I cant really say if he exists or not :)

Dude this is my opinion as well.

I have always considered myself on the side of good. I am conscious of evil and it's influence in this universe.

I know exactly what Christ was teaching and in a way that most Christians do not because they're un-aware of where Heaven really is. They're stuck in the physical and stuck in their egos.

This is why they're afraid to discuss Lucifer as anything but 'the Devil'.

They think 'the Devil' is an actual person or some single entity that has been pinpointed and labeled in history.

I see the Devil as the dark part of the spiral which is consciousness. We fall into it and we can get out. Is this not what the coming of Christ is all about?

'The Devil', darkness, and all illusion, are necessary tools for the evolvement of consciousness. We get in, we get out, and we report the experience back to God.

[dedicate]

The Rosicrucian teachings are of great value to humanity. The works of Shakespeare, Thomas Moore, and Rudolf Steiner are all considered Rosicrucian teachings. These teachings are not found by investigating books or human histories. These teachings are found in nature or the secret places of the universe, the etheric regions.

Rosicrucians teach Christianity, Astrology, Kabbalah, etc.. Important things all modern Rosicrucians learn is vegitarinism and reincarnation laws as well as an esoteric understanding of the Bible.

[thirdwave]

Now, all you people with this great interest in Lucifer. Please drop it. Why not take an interest in the Great and Exhalted Beings who have an interest in the advancement of humanity? These are proven people and beings and teachings that you can prove to yourself without much trouble. See the lake? Is it nice to swim? Take the leap. Find out.

but the point is, is what if certain points with lucifer are extremely important to us?

Look at the rulers of the world who many believe to be into lucifer
do you not feel that they are playing with an advantage... are they short of power?..knowledge?

I have found that since studying this more I have decoding that fear aspect where you only need to say the name and you see a load of red flames and hear that horror movie piano going off...

But I don't get that any more... I actually don't think Lucifer is good of bad, its simply light.... knowledge and desires that find liberation... this can work within evil or good...

I don't think Lucifer has anything to do with evil as such... I think that comes from somewhere else... he simply likes people to free their desires and to be successful in their will.

I believe Evil comes simply by lack of balance... so you can no longer see another perspective on what you do.... people could be free from "Lucifer" all their life and stuff end up being evil.

What kind of beings are we if we are simply here to either listen to one god... or his enemy?

what would be the point in us being here? Does God just want a clean out so plays this little game ... people who believe stay the rest can sling their hook?

[thirdwave]

The Rosicrucian teachings are of great value to humanity. The works of Shakespeare, Thomas Moore, and Rudolf Steiner are all considered Rosicrucian teachings. These teachings are not found by investigating books or human histories. These teachings are found in nature or the secret places of the universe, the etheric regions.

Rosicrucians teach Christianity, Astrology, Kabbalah, etc.. Important things all modern Rosicrucians learn is vegitarinism and reincarnation laws as well as an esoteric understanding of the Bible.

ok but they are also known by some to follow a Luciferian philosophy...

[dedicate]

So. People can and do say anything about anybody and every thing. Don't they?

There are some materialistic so-called Rosicrucian groups out there. But that is the nature of these Evil teachings. Evil groups rarely are up-front about their intentions. They like to borrow from or infiltrate the good, often taking over an organization that at one time was benevolent.-- FreeMasonry, The UN. Even the Illuminati was at one time a benevolent organization,,-- just research Swinbourne Clymer's or Goethe's association to the group. This is the state of many if not all Rosicrucian groups today.

[metacomet]

As someone raised Christian, I often saw displays of fear outweighing knowledge.

Fear of hell and fear of life and God in general is the overwhelming foundation for most people's faith. The fact that they are eternal souls by right of birth and must find heaven through rectification of their own souls is not always conveyed clearly. They seem to think that the point of life is to escape hell and evil.

The holiest man will have met hell and evil within himself and by right is capable of healing others. Wisdom and experience with evil are powerful allies. The greatest converts to Christianity have seen and done the most horrific things. These people battle powerful demons within themself.

Most people can hardly discuss the topic of evil, let alone acknowledge it's presence. This is called ignorance, and it's a form of sin :)

[dedicate]

Thirdwave -- but the point is, is what if certain points with lucifer are extremely important to us?

Look at the rulers of the world who many believe to be into lucifer
do you not feel that they are playing with an advantage... are they short of power?..knowledge?

I have found that since studying this more I have decoding that fear aspect where you only need to say the name and you see a load of red flames and hear that horror movie piano going off...

But I don't get that any more... I actually don't think Lucifer is good of bad, its simply light.... knowledge and desires that find liberation... this can work within evil or good...

-------------


Your playing with fire. That is all. Those rulers are playing with fire. They will soon reep what they sow. Power and knowledge are important, but one must not let it get out of control,,, or it will control you. Lucifer is not all bad. It's just that his being has little or no interest in Humanity. One must be very carefull not to get burned. Better to just stay away from that stuff -- take a lesson from what happened to the most famous Luciferian, Hitler.. Learn how to Love and appreaciate the light that is love, and learn from the knowlege that love can give.

[octopusrex]

As someone raised Christian, I often saw displays of fear outweighing knowledge.

Fear of hell and fear of life and God in general is the overwhelming foundation for most people's faith. The fact that they are eternal souls by right of birth and must find heaven through rectification of their own souls is not always conveyed clearly. They seem to think that the point of life is to escape hell and evil.

The holiest man will have met hell and evil within himself and by right is capable of healing others. Wisdom and experience with evil are powerful allies. The greatest converts to Christianity have seen and done the most horrific things. These people battle powerful demons within themself.

Most people can hardly discuss the topic of evil, let alone acknowledge it's presence. This is called ignorance, and it's a form of sin :)

As a Christian, I strongly urge you to meditate on the relationship between Jesus and Judas. This relationship is the key to understand the relationship between the Elohim and Lucifer.

[dedicate]

That is one of the things that the Devil likes to teach us, metacomet. That we learn from evil -- "Take a bite! you will know good from evil.".. All those good people that have learned from their past mistakes would never say it couldn't have been otherwise. I know, I didn't have to go through some of the things i went through to get where I am now. In fact, it would have been better for me not to have committed those sins, rather than to see what a scar they are on my soul. It is the Devil that wants you to commit sin in order to learn -- THE HARD WAY.

[thirdwave]

So. People can and do say anything about anybody and every thing. Don't they?

There are some materialistic so-called Rosicrucian groups out there. But that is the nature of these Evil teachings. Evil groups rarely are up-front about their intentions. They like to borrow from or infiltrate the good, often taking over an organization that at one time was benevolent.-- FreeMasonry, The UN. Even the Illuminati was at one time a benevolent organization,,-- just research Swinbourne Clymer's or Goethe's association to the group. This is the state of many if not all Rosicrucian groups today.


I agree that much of the evil in secret society's was infiltrated into it... but I also think that the Luciferian philosophy is included in that.... I think the elite would rather us fear it and keep away from it because they enjoy having the knowledge to them sevles...

the thing is, you can be very evil and be into Lucifer... this is the thing, people will see an evil guy into Lucifer so then think Lucifer is evil.... I don't think its as simple as that... I think good guys can be friends with Lucifer as well.

I think people like Robert Anton Wilson had a "Luciferian philosophy" and I think he was a decent human being..

[thirdwave]

Your playing with fire. That is all. Those rulers are playing with fire. They will soon reep what they sow.

But to me its not fire... I think the fear of him has more fire than him self...

The rulers will reep what they sow most defiantly... and I feel sorry for them really, but them reeping what they sow will not effect us and we will still be in the same position until we change it...not them.



Power and knowledge are important, but one must not let it get out of control,,, or it will control you.

Very mush so, expecialy when you have people trying to make it harder!

[dedicate]

You are free to do as you wish. Investigate further if you like. But why seek out information that already has been presented to you?

The elite are evil. The knowlege is not. How they got the knowlege may be via doing evil. That same knowlege can be gained via doing good, but as the great Jedi once said.. "the dark side is more seductive",, easy, quick.


For me. I'm going to stay away from any Lucifer contact. That does not seem to be a very good idea to me. You could go crazy,, or like Anton Wilson come down with a killing disease,,, or end up in prison... or maybe something worse. Fire.

[kblood]

Dude this is my opinion as well.

I have always considered myself on the side of good. I am conscious of evil and it's influence in this universe.

I know exactly what Christ was teaching and in a way that most Christians do not because they're un-aware of where Heaven really is. They're stuck in the physical and stuck in their egos.

This is why they're afraid to discuss Lucifer as anything but 'the Devil'.

They think 'the Devil' is an actual person or some single entity that has been pinpointed and labeled in history.

I see the Devil as the dark part of the spiral which is consciousness. We fall into it and we can get out. Is this not what the coming of Christ is all about?

'The Devil', darkness, and all illusion, are necessary tools for the evolvement of consciousness. We get in, we get out, and we report the experience back to God.

Yeah, I believe Lucifer and the devil, wether they are the same or not, is simply just there to help us learn. If the stories about them is true, then they probably helped make this reality. Define how souls could learn good from bad, love from evil. If Lucifer is the bringer of light, then I guess he is the god of this plane of existance, since light is what creates this illusion we live in. I also believe he rejoices when people move beyond it just as much as other beings of his kind. Im saying his, but I would guess if there are angels and demons they are probably genderless.

Anne Rice wrote an interesting book, Memnoch the Devil. Made alot of sense to me the way she told it.

[revolutionary_jam]

interesting stuff


Didn't lucifer ask jesus to be his brother and jesus said no?

[tjohn]

As a Christian, I strongly urge you to meditate on the relationship between Jesus and Judas. This relationship is the key to understand the relationship between the Elohim and Lucifer.If Lucifer was a real person he would be one of the Elohim - then how do you know that he was a real person? Could be a metaphor. Then look at the name, Lucifer, which means 'shining one' and understand that we were 'shining ones' for a while because we became more like the Elohim for a while by having our eyes opened to "knowing good and evil." Then the Serpent was debased and we lost our wisdom and forced to eat 'dust' as spiritual food. That's my interpretation anyway and I think there's a lot of confusion about these characters, real or symbolic.

For instance, people assume that Lucifer is Satan or the Devil.. it does say that Satan is the devil but nowhere does it say that Lucifer is Satan in the bible.. also some think that the Beast of Revelation (the one with 666) is the Antichrist and again, it does not say that in the bible. It's all based on shallow interpretations and assumptions and as David Icke would say, repeaters - those who repeat something and everyone believes it (except for a few).

[tjohn]

interesting stuff


Didn't lucifer ask jesus to be his brother and jesus said no?That's not in the bible... but if it is elsewhere it could be interesting.

[pandorafix]

Bensonz-

yes for sure, a person who is 'without love' or devoid of it, however you want to describe it is certainly able to receive it at any point. Everyone has many chances throughout their life to be able to perceive and receive this.

wouldnt you say yhere are times when a persons heart becomes hardened and they are given over to their devotion of hatred, evil and death?

I speak here of a person who knows the difference and CHOOSES to blaspheme God., after choosing this.. which is probably a contortion of sorts against the human spirit...they willingly accept the penalties and remove themselves from light...

And then, what about the 'unpardonable sin' ?

[pandorafix]

As someone raised Christian, I often saw displays of fear outweighing knowledge.

Fear of hell and fear of life and God in general is the overwhelming foundation for most people's faith. The fact that they are eternal souls by right of birth and must find heaven through rectification of their own souls is not always conveyed clearly. They seem to think that the point of life is to escape hell and evil.

The holiest man will have met hell and evil within himself and by right is capable of healing others. Wisdom and experience with evil are powerful allies. The greatest converts to Christianity have seen and done the most horrific things. These people battle powerful demons within themself.

Most people can hardly discuss the topic of evil, let alone acknowledge it's presence. This is called ignorance, and it's a form of sin :)


It takes some one to reach the absesses of hell , to realize how debase the human heart can be, and then to realize the beauty of forgiveness..
how can anybody receive love if they dont experience it first hand? if they have not experienced forgiveness..
to be in the deepest of pits, and to come out and be forgiven...
.. that is divine..
that is wisdom, the simple truths,.. that become self-evident and most obvious after that conversion has been made.

it's such a wonderful thing !

[metacomet]

For instance, people assume that Lucifer is Satan or the Devil.. it does say that Satan is the devil but nowhere does it say that Lucifer is Satan in the bible.. also some think that the Beast of Revelation (the one with 666) is the Antichrist and again, it does not say that in the bible. It's all based on shallow interpretations and assumptions and as David Icke would say, repeaters - those who repeat something and everyone believes it (except for a few).

Spot on, mate.

I still use the term 'luciferian' to describe society or things that are supposed to enlighten us but are actually distractions... those kind of things are everywhere.

But the term Lucifer no longer means 'the devil' to me. I think it's a form of consciousness which was simply forbidden to us...

[thelucifer]

If not for Jerome' "Lucifer" mistranslation in Isaiah 14, the world (Christians etc) would simply see Lucifer as the good guy, as put forth in the Bible.
Jesus is the good guy in the Bible and in Revelation 16 Jesus says he is the bright and morning star, Lucifer.
Jesus, when saying he is Lucifer, is not saying he is the bad guy.
Being Lucifer/Luciferian is thus good.


Understanding the very simple truth of the matter and looking around at just how screwed up people are about Lucifer is a sight to behold.


Lucifer in Isaiah 14 is a mistranslation !

Funny how that works.

[thirdwave]

Revelation 22:16

"I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star"


maybe Jesus was drunk on red wine and was playing a joke on his deciples... its just they did not cover it in the texts?

[stopthemadness]

I do remember feeling once that I was trespassing into the backstage of reality. This is where extra-dimensional beings are observing us and maintaining our physical reality. I believe these are gigantic entities - 'oversouls' as they were known to the Vedic scholars and throughout occult history. These oversouls do not want us to wake up. They are real and I believe Lucifer and others have fought to free us from their grasp.

The oversouls do not want us to wake up.


I would label your oversouls as Yahweh & his "angels."
I refer to your Beast as the Error or the Whore. It is the Beast/Error/Whore that created Yahweh.

Basically, this is Gnosticism.

[vancity eagle]

If not for Jerome' "Lucifer" mistranslation in Isaiah 14, the world (Christians etc) would simply see Lucifer as the good guy, as put forth in the Bible.
Jesus is the good guy in the Bible and in Revelation 16 Jesus says he is the bright and morning star, Lucifer.
Jesus, when saying he is Lucifer, is not saying he is the bad guy.
Being Lucifer/Luciferian is thus good.


Understanding the very simple truth of the matter and looking around at just how screwed up people are about Lucifer is a sight to behold.


Lucifer in Isaiah 14 is a mistranslation !

Funny how that works.

there is no mistranslation , and it was not Jerome who mistranslated anything. The Greek Septuagint aprox 200BCE (600 years before Jeromes translation) has Lucifer in Isaiah 14. Lucifer used to be one of the top angels and was known as the morning star BEFORE HE FELL and became Satan(which means the opposer or opponent) Lucifer was his name when he was a good angel before he rebelled. That is why it says how art thou fallen. Of course all occultists will have you believe Lucifer and Satan are not the same yet they are, Occultists believe Lucifer is the good guy, which is why they justify their rebelious nature.

[thirdwave]

there is no mistranslation , and it was not Jerome who mistranslated anything. The Greek Septuagint aprox 200BCE (600 years before Jeromes translation) has Lucifer in Isaiah 14. Lucifer used to be one of the top angels and was known as the morning star BEFORE HE FELL and became Satan(which means the opposer or opponent) Lucifer was his name when he was a good angel before he rebelled. That is why it says how art thou fallen. Of course all occultists will have you believe Lucifer and Satan are not the same yet they are, Occultists believe Lucifer is the good guy, which is why they justify their rebelious nature.

Lucifer was a word not a name. and Lucifer and Satan are both diffident. You only need to look at the Jewish perception of Satan, where he was actually Gods side kick and the prosecutor and tester of humanity...

[snoopsnuffleopagus]

Physical reality is an illusion. We operate in this illusion, not knowing that is illusion. Therefore we fear death and pain - we are slaves to illusion.
The Old Gods and the Old Testament are part of an effort to maintain a massive reality hoax.

Ahoy.you should be upfront and say you're a Gnosticist instead of doing a deceptive Kabuki Dance. :rolleyes:

Your suppositions are groundless. Physical Reality is NOT an illusion, our perception of Reality is 'Fuzzy'.

Yahweh and the OT are the Path, this is what Yahshua=Yah Helps/Saves Messiah/Jesus Christ taught. The Way.

Torah Conscienceness and Torah Observation are the foundation to build upon.

Your way leads to disaster-STDs, Broken unstable homes and relationships, war, disease, poverty.

You don't know what you're talking about. Back to the Books.

http://www.yahweh.com/pdf/12-2004-PW.pdf

Explain how this is a Hoax. :confused: And then provide a superiour concept.

Tzelem Elokim=Humankind as Image of Yah

1: Has Intelligence

2: Has Freewill

3: Has component of Spiritual Being-A Soul

4: HaShem/YHWH Rules the Universe and Spirit World, Humans have dominion over the Lower World.

5: Has the faculty of Judgement

6: Has an inherent Holiness and Dignity
Quote:

Quote:
As created in the image of God, humans are endowed with "three intrinsic dignities": infinite value, equality, and uniqueness.

The first means that human life cannot be weighed, measured, or compared in terms of, that is, subordinated to, any other value. In the Kantian parlance Parlance humans are always a goal or end in themselves and never a means to something else.

The second term implies that no person or group is privileged over another. In fact, idolatry Idolatry results when a person or group absolutizes itself or its message.

The third idea reinforces the dignity of every human by insisting that each person is irreplaceable and has a special role to play in the redemption of the world.

The jewish religion is founded on the divine assurance and human belief that the world will be perfected." [5] Judaism engages with and seeks to overcome these realities of history through its notion of covenant. The covenant is that dynamic which God inaugurated in history, that partnership between God and the jewish people, to achieve the dignities for which all humans were created. Jews are those teachers, models, and co-workers-having both a divine and human partners - whom God designated to help all persons and even nature achieve redemption. For Greenberg, the messianic dream of perfection will not be realized by divine fiat, but by "improving this world, one step at a time."

These understandings of God, humans, and the world are expressed through the Torah and lived-out by the Jewish people through the Holy days and the Halakhah. In this view, Torah is that divine teaching which stands as "the constitution of the ongoing relationship of God and the Jewish people." Rabbi Greenberg

This expanded view/articulation of higher values help us to search for Yahwehs presence in the secular Realms of Life, some peeps call this: 'Holy Secularism'.

The Covenant is essentially a Divine, Loving, Pedagogic process. As Humans become more competent, Yahweh invites them to take up a more active role in the Task of Tikun Olam/World to Come, as Co-Creators.

The lay people of Yahweh play a more influential role in discerning Yahwehs purpose and in carrying out His Divine Mandates.

Later, ensuing Historical events reshape understandings of earlier Teachings.

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1059345915&postcount=729

Summarized

We=ALL Living things-creatures-sustained and Nurtured by Yahweh-will fill the World with Life.

* We will reshape the Historical Reality, the Flesh & Blood world we inhabit, to sustain that Life at the highest possible level.

* Life will multiply and triumph Quantitatively over allits enemies; including Entropy, Death, and Disorder.

* Life will equally triumph Qualitatively.

* All of lifes capacities/potentials will be developed fully and realized.

* When Life blossoms to its fullest capacity that treats all Life, especially Human Life-the most developed form-and sustains it with the highest and fullest respect that it deserves, then Life will be in harmony with existence and deeply related to Yahweh, its Source and Sustainer(Natural Laws)

* This is the Jews Story, and by default; the Christians/Xns.

* Telling the Story of Creation is the Jews 'Witness'. The present evidentiary Facts contradict the Narrative fairly substantialy.

* Yet, This Story of Creation is shared by Jews and Xns.

* This Story leads Humans to see existence as best they can, from a Cosmic Perspective-Sub Specie Aeternitatis.

* From that Vantage Point there are Three Grand Movements in the unfolding Pattern of the Cosmos

1: The World is moving from Chaos to Order. From the Big Bang, with no Laws of Nature to the regularity of the Life sustaining Laws of Nature.

2: The World is moving from Non-Life to Life. From a State in which no life existed to the emergence of Life. From one cell, untold replications, life has grown Quantitatively, and developed Qualitatively. It has luxuriated and spread into a vast range of forms over and through a variety of sustaining conditions/environments.

* The declaration that Life is growing, moving from non-life to life is counter-intuitive.
Death & Entropy refute that contention.

The 'Key' is Yahweh-The Hidden, Infinite Source of Life with limitless Goodness, Love and Power that sustains Life and Nurtures every possible Form of Life into Being.

* Yahweh, the Divine Source evokes the Third Grand Movement of the Cosmos

3: Life is growing ever more to resemble its Ground: Yahweh.

Life moves from being less to becoming more and more like Yahweh. The highest form of Life, the Human Being, represents the High Point reached thus far.

In Human Form, life so resembles its Maker that it is called; Biblically; 'The Image of Yah'

* This emergence of "The Image of Yah" is the Turning Point in Cosmic History according to Jews & Xns.

Up to that point Life has been sworn to 'Be Fruitful & Multiply' (maximizing reproductive success) through a built-in control Programme-A 'Selfish Gene'- that drives the process.

* The 'Image of Yahs' Consciousness is so much like Yahwehs that Humans are able to 'grasp' this overall pattern of which we, ourselves are part, and to join voluntarily in its realization.

* Similarly, The Human 'Image of Yah' has a capacity to Love ALL their fellow creatures and every aspect of the Universe, as well as the Maker of it all and the Beauty of the Plan.

* Once Humans understand and embrace this understanding, they will lovingly identify with and willingly participate in the process of Perfection.

* Yahweh has invited us, as Humans, The 'Image of Yah', to enter into a Covenantal Partnership, committed to Love, to join fully in perfecting the Universe.

Tikkun Olam

* The People of Israel joyfully acknowledge that Yahwehs first Covenant, the Noahide Covenant, never superseded, is made with ALL Humanity, not exclusively with Jews and/or Xns alone.

* It is made with ALL Sentient Beings.

* ALL Beings are called to recognize and participate in Natures Patterns.

* To accept Limits.

* To Direct their choices and actions in favour of Life.

* To join in working for Order against Chaos.

* We are ALL CHOSEN to become part of the movement from Non-Life to Life.

* We are commanded to increase Life and make it grow ever more like its Maker.


* The purpose of the Religious way of life is to create the nurturing ambience of memory and experience, of relationships and actions that sustain Human growth and turns it towards Yahweh.

* Being in the 'Image of Yahweh' brings with it more Yahweh like capacities. It bestows intrinsic Dignity, a climatic extension of that respect to which all of life is entitled.

* The People of Israel hold these Truths to be self-evident: That ALL Humans are created in 'The Image of Yahweh'; and endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable Rightts, among which are:

* Infinite Value

* Equality

* Uniqueness.

These are Birthrights of every Son & Daughter of Yahweh
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1059357621&postcount=736

Monotheism inspired Religious Warfare

Before Monotheism there had never been Religious Warfare.

The Polytheistic Cultures were live and let live about other culture Deities and often borrowed and share aspects.

The Polytheistic Deities were usually Local Deities, not Universe/Worldwide.

Polytheist had National gods, Local gods, family gods and personal gods, even their pet animals had gods.

Monotheism was a Major Advance along the road to Enlightenment, but came at a high cost.

Monotheism encouraged people to think in new ways. A Monotheistic Creator Being not tied to a concrete Image/Picture is a very Abstract Concept..

Abstraction is a crucial component of Logical Reasoning and its use can liberate people from superstition.

Devotion to an Abstract Deity has a Heavy price.

If everyone agrees there is only one, true, Living Creator Being, and different groups conceive of it in different ways, then whose perception of that Deity is the correct one?

Examine each groups values and praxis.

Different perceptions have inspired some groups to wage war and engage in forced conversions.

This never occurred in Polytheistic Cultures.

They had many wars but for the usual mundane reasons, Land, Treasure, Women, Power over others for the sake of Power alone, but they never waged Religious War.

One effect of an Alphabetic based Monotheism is the brain is using a new abstract, linear, sequential, and reductionist means of communication which moves people who learn it and use it into a Left Brain, Masculine Mode, rather then the usual Pictographic, Feminine Right Brain Mode.

The Aleph/Alphabet subliminally coaxes users to be intolerent of other Iconic Systems of Beliefs.

This is illuminated in the Ten Commandments.

As stated before, Judaism is the first religion to be based upon universal literacy, the written word.

When Moses came down from his meet and greet with YHWH on the mountain, the multitude had fashioned an Idol/Golden Calf, this dicombobulated Moses so much he dropped the two stone Tablets Yahweh had written the ten commandments.


Allegorically: In the first confrontation between Image and Written Word, both were destroyed.

As the story goes, Moses returned to the Mountain Top and Yahweh provided him with another set. Yahweh also taught Moses the Alephbet.

The 10 Commandments; The first four Commandments are for the Recognition and service/Worship of Yahweh, the remaining six focus on our fellow humans, loving and serving them.

The Commandment to Honour Both Father and Mother elevates and recognizes the importance and status of Women in the Family Group.

Loving your neighbour is not one of the Ten but appears in the Torah/Instruction, Leviticus 19:18.

The last six commandments are not unusual, and found in other Codexes of Laws, The First four Commandments are Unique.
Each one of the four encourages Alphabetic Literacy by rejecting the Right Brains way of 'knowing'.

One effect of a new, abstract, linear, sequential and reductionist means of communication moves people who learn it into a Left Brain, Masculine Mode.

Social Engineering.

The 10 Commandments: The First four concern Recognition/Respect and Service/Worship of Yahweh.

The remaining six are love and respect of fellow humans.

The Ethics they embody are more sophisticated then other contemporary ANE Cultures.

The commandment to honour BOTH Father and Mother signifies the womens important role and in the Family Unit.

Loving Neighbours is in the General Torah/Instruction: Leviticus 19:18

The last six commandments are not unusual, the first four commandments are unique. Each of the first four encourage Alphabetic literacy by rejecting the right brains way of knowing.

The First Commandment:

20:2 I am Yahweh thy Elohim, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.

20:3 Thou shalt have no other elohim before me.

In one fell swoop subserviates all other elohim/gods & goddesses.

Nothing personal, it was business.

The Meta-Message of the First Commandment is that Yahweh is the Master of the Universe, He is self-existant, and all other elohim/gods & goddesses are created beings, subserviant to Him. Psalm 82

Psalm 82

82:1 Yahweh standeth in the congregation of El; he judgeth among the elohim.

82:2 How long will ye judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? Selah.

82:3 Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy.

82:4 Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked.

82:5 They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course.

82:6 I have said, Ye are elohim; and all of you are children of the most High.

82:7 But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.

82:8 Arise, O Yahweh, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations.

All of Yahwehs Titles are masculine.

The First Commandment is a radical break with the Hebrews past environment. Moses and the Hebrews had left Egypt which was Polytheistic, alot of gods and goddesses worship.

Yahweh declares there is no worship of other gods or goddesses. Full Stop.

Perhaps the most radical sentence ever written.

The Second Commandment:

20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:

20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I; Yahweh thy Elohim am a jealous Elohim, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

No Graven Images, Icons or Idols, Statues.

Learning to think without Images is indispensable to Alphabetic Literacy. The Power formerly rendered to Images/Pictures is now transferred to the written word.

Make no Graven Images is a ban/restraint on Right Brain Pattern Recognition.

The Third Commandment:

20:7 Thou shalt not take the name of Yahweh thy Elohim in vain; for Yahweh will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.

Do not use Yahwehs Name vainly, with Malintent. Again; Left Brain.

Yahwehs first instruction to adam isto Name all the critters. Through Naming, Adam attains dominion over all the Earth. Naming confers meaning and order, moving Life from Chaos to Order.

To Name is to know, to know is to control. Order out of Chaos.

The Fourth Commandment:

20:8 Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.

20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:

20:10 But the seventh day is the Sabbath of thy Elohim: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

20:11 For in six days made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore blessed the Sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Seven Days are not a Natural Break Point in any of Earths Major Natural Rhythmic Cycles-Lunar-Solar, except the Quarter Moon.

This facilitates the learning of Aritmatic.

Leviticus 25:3-10 is about the Jubilee Years, the 50th,

No other ANE culture at that time had instructed the general population to compute complex time periods, this had formerly been the domain of the Priestly Castes.

The Time Commandment lays the foundation for the concept of Justice, a well developed sense of Linear Time is necessary to conceive of Punishment delayed and Rewards postponed.

Non-Literate Cultures are not as pre-occupied with the notion/concept of Justice as the Literate, because they do not conceive of time only as linear.

Non-Literated peeps tend to think of death as a passage to another World, not as a Day in Court.

Alphabets stretch out the sense of Time and make possible the awareness of the possibility of a retribution Time in the distant future.

A Judgements day only occurs in Literate Cultures.

Alphabet Literate Cultures became aware of writing History in a Linear, Chronological sequencing of Events.

The fourth Commandments Mechanical/Sociological ramifications is instructing people to be aware of Passing Time.

This was the advent of the seven day week, and a day off every week.

A day off for ALL Humans, Free and Bond, and ALL Beasts of Burden and the Farmland every seven years isto lay fallow to rejuvinate the enzymes in the ground.

This led to Sundials, waterclocks, Pendulums, Escape Mechanisms, Cogs, Gears, Calenders.

Time is a key function of the Left Brain.

Each of the First Four Commandments trains people in the ability to: Think Abstractly, linearly and sequentially.

Collectively, they produce a Mindset that enhances the use and facility of Alphabetic Literacy.

This Technology welded the small group into a cohesive and coherent Nation/Culture.

Aloha!!!!!!!!!!!! :)

The World is definitely a better place due to YHWH and the Data contained in the Tanakh, He/It provided the impetus for Universal Literacy and its ensuing developments. You come off as a Dark Age/Medieval kinda mentality. :rolleyes:

Show some gratitude ok?

[luzifer]

luzifer is the bringer of light and some so called angels or whatever never liked the idea.... humans have the capability to rise beyond these so called angels and gain immortality blah blah.... thats why knowledge is kept cryptic....
and those who try to enlighten others are always labeled as EVIL.... this happens here on earth ....and above....
and satan/devil is not luzifer thats for sure
....and yeh i am back :d


....by the way good post metacomet

[dollanaqua]

Physical reality is an illusion. We operate in this illusion, not knowing that is illusion. Therefore we fear death and pain - we are slaves to illusion.

The only way to end our slavery is to attain knowledge. This is a fundamental truth. Knowledge dissolves illusion like light dissolves darkness.

The Old Testament creation myth has been dissected so many times. I am now starting to realize one of the most startling theories.

This physical world and all within are illusion. The master of this reality and this dimension is NOT the holy creator or the all-is. This physical reality and dimension is another form of separation from God, another form of 'hell' and it is our destiny to escape it. We have been given instructions for this process of escape many times , from the Buddha, from Christ and possibly from Lucifer himself.

Is Lucifer a slandered character in history? Maybe so!

I believe true evil exists - and that the truest evil is illusion.

If the masters of this reality wanted to keep us in illusion, they would condemn and vilify anyone trying to break us free from illusion.

I believe Lucifer was not 'Satan' but was actually another savior entity, like Buddha and Christ.

Lucifer made the great mistake of giving Human beings 'knowledge'. Forbidden knowledge.

Now why on Earth would a benevolent creator God want to keep his children from knowledge? Because the Old Gods were not of the holy spirit . Just as this physical reality is not of the holy spirit . The 'Elohim' and this reality they have trapped us in are DENSE and of LOW VIBRATION - they have always and will always manipulate us to keep us in this same dense vibration. Any knowledge passed towards humanity which can free us from this reality prism is FORBIDDEN and is almost always perverted in the form of organized religion.

Lucifer was the first savior to humanity. He is now painted as the ultimate villain - 'You stay away from that BAD MAN! Stick to what you KNOW!' Said the Elohim.

I was born and raised Christian. To come to these conclusions is not necessarily 'easy' but many others have come to it before me and it makes perfect sense to me.

The Old Gods were not the true great spirit. They were our slave masters. They are still around. They ground us to this illusory reality and forbid us from attaining knowledge that can free us.

Lucifer was not the embodiment of evil. He was a servant of the Old Gods who grew what we call a 'conscience' and attempted to save us.

Lucifers payment from history is to be painted as the ultimate villain to humanity.

The Old Gods and the Old Testament are part of an effort to maintain a massive reality hoax.

Excellent post.

[throwback]

This thread, and truly 99.9999% of religions all seem to in some way shape or form want to convince and promote an idea that reality (the physical world) is not real. They attempt to get us to deny what we can see, measure, and experience consistantly on a day in and day out basis and all seem to have one major theme in common. That theme is that WE ARE SPIRITS INHIBITING A BODY in a "life experience." What the hell!!!!!!!!!! C'mon Man!!!!!! Stop trippin'!!!!!!!!! Accept reality!!!!!! We are ALL physical creatures, LIVING SOULS that have an entry date and an exit date. We live and die, have a beginning and an end and these facts are evident and have been proven throughout history, prehistory, and will be pervasive through the future as well. Stop believing this "soul" hype and accept the fact that we are carnel, mortal beings whose sole hope for continued existance and survival is beyond the scope of our control. Our hope as mortals lies not in some celestial afterlife nor does it lie in another astrial plain, as much as it is based on the hope of a BODILY RESURRECTION to physical life.
That my friends is REALITY. Deal with it, but please, don't deny it.

[vancity eagle]

Lucifer was not trying to bring any benevolence to mankind, he was a deciever using forbidden knowledge to entice mankind, just like the secret societies of today use forbidden knowledge and power to attract members. Judge a tree by its fruit. What have all these occultists and secret societies with supposed "hidden knowledge" that Lucifer tried to bring done for the good of mankind. Answer that question and you will know what Lucifers intentions were. Remember he is the master of deception and LIES, he is also said to have decieved the entire world.

[throwback]

Lucifers payment from history is to be painted as the ultimate villain to humanity.

It may be worth noting that Lucifer is NOT the Serpent of Old, not the Dragon, and is NO WHERE identified in scripture as the Satan. So to say that 'sweet' Lucifer has been given a raw deal is only true to the extent that the TERM lucifer has been identified with the Satan when there is no valid reason to make that link.

Let me simplify this: LUCIFER is NOT Satan. Is that plain enough?

--------
Now if you want to make the point that the Satan has gotten a raw deal from scripture and accepted history, try and make that case, but consider the difficulty in doing so first. You'll have to ask and answer questions like: Is/was the Satan a single entity or has the TERM Satan (which mean adversary) been intended to be applied to multiple entities both spiritual and other?
Prior to man's appearance; who was the Satan?
Did God plan on revealing all knowledge to man in His own time without a need to partake of the forbidden tree?

Such questions, many of which we have no way of answering should be pondered before jumping to rash conclusions.

[mats]

Great debate. I'd like to add two cents.

Every Christian has faith in the bible and also says that the devil himself will deceive people. If I was a devil (maybe I am :o) then I would probably write a book that would deceive millions of people, while stating that I'm pure love. like lol? I would not fly around and try to posses a soul at a time.
And come on, we live in a perfect creation of God, where we have to kill animals for food and obey to the commandment of 'thou shalt not kill'. It's crazy.

Therefore it's easy to come to the conclusion, that maybe it's all upside down and Lucifer was the good guy.

And by the way roman catholic church at many occasions states that lucifer = satan = devil and also states during services that 'you shall fear Gods mercy' (taken from my own experience and that of course depends on the priest that leads the service)

//edit,
sorry for digging up an ol' thread, didn't notice that ;]

[gurlbit]

Lucifier's actually just a king.

[thetonic]

Lucifer was a word not a name. and Lucifer and Satan are both diffident. You only need to look at the Jewish perception of Satan, where he was actually Gods side kick and the prosecutor and tester of humanity...

Look ! More daft nonsense by thirdwave.. BIG SURPRISE!

Names are WORDS smart guy

Satan as gods sidekick wow you just contradicted yourself there. Why do you think Lucifer was gods favorite angel? He was his SIDEKICK ! His buddy , his pal, then he decided to fuck off and God said OK FUCKER see you down in hell and thus became SATAN ! or STAN(for bensonz)

Lesson and ass kicking over

[thetonic]

Basically, this is Gnosticism.

Exactly !

Yeah PS for Metacomet

Your oP has you tagged as a LUCIFERIAN basically you are spouting the rubbish that child sacrificers believe to a T!

[thetonic]

That's a contradiction because Lucifer means light - go figure.

Oh and another thing, have you noticed that religious clergy often ware dark garb?

Actually ! Lucifer is latin and means LIGHT BEARER or Bringer of Light

It does not mean "LIGHT" as in 'white' as in kiss my white ass stupid people that make up shit and blatant lies to try and support their fraudulent views !

[thetonic]

Lucifer was not trying to bring any benevolence to mankind, he was a deciever using forbidden knowledge to entice mankind, just like the secret societies of today use forbidden knowledge and power to attract members. Judge a tree by its fruit. What have all these occultists and secret societies with supposed "hidden knowledge" that Lucifer tried to bring done for the good of mankind. Answer that question and you will know what Lucifers intentions were. Remember he is the master of deception and LIES, he is also said to have decieved the entire world.

Good post ... You hit the nail on the head!

[thirdwave]

Look ! More daft nonsense by thirdwave.. BIG SURPRISE!

Well lets see what your about to say to prove that so.....



Names are WORDS smart guy Well done! good start!... LOL


Satan as gods sidekick wow you just contradicted yourself there..
Why do you think Lucifer was gods favorite angel?

What an earth are you talking about?

He was his SIDEKICK ! His buddy , his pal, then he decided to fuck off and God said OK FUCKER see you down in hell and thus became SATAN ! or STAN(for bensonz)

My word, for such passion you know very little... or simply ignore what does not sink in well.

*sigh*... ok... here goes.

We will start with Lucifer.

You seem to be content to believe Lucifer is who other people have attributed him to... Satan. But if you are to read for your self then you will discover that there is nothing in scripture that says this to be so... and more importantly there is far more evidence that shows us otherwise.

Lucifer is not an Angel and was not and is not Gods *well i guess it could be but I don't want to confuse you). He was the bringer of light and was attributed to the planet Venus or the Sun... Also described as the morning star .. it was an occult reference and in no way has it been identified as a living being... because it has been attributed to more than one person.

It is obviously used to depict a person of inspiration and power... who ever that person may be...

The mention of Lucifer in the bible was translated by King James...

"How you are fallen from heaven, O Day Star, son of Dawn!" Clearly this is a depiction of Venus (Lucifer) ... But it is in fact talking about the King of Babylon .. where there are no references to this king being called Lucifer or anything similar.

Latin then translated the highlighted part to "morning star that used to rise early" ... King James then applied the name Lucifer instead of "day star" and Christians began attributing Lucifer to Satan.

There there you have your Angel.

The truth is, is the morning Star...Venus... Lucifer, was a powerful title to give a king... or a leader... or someone of huge inspiration... someone who brings light to who ever views what they bring as light. Just as many other planets and stars have been used to depict Gods... or kings... or who ever...

This is why Lucifer can actually be attributed to Satan or King of Babylon... or Horus/Ra ...

And also... yes Jesus.

Rev 22:16
I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star

Ok... Now onto Satan.


The word meant "The Accuser" & "The Adversary"

In the book of Job Satan is depicted as a subservient to God and working for him. God liked Job and thought he was perfect but Satan thought he was only great because he had everything he wanted.. So God let Satan test him and give Job a hard time, to test his faith... God later regretted his decision to let Satan do this.

He is also mentioned as a working for god in other Jewish texts...

Im not even sure if the word "Satan" is used in the NT... I think "The Adversary" is but not Satan...

Never the less, pre NT Satan was known as a worker for God and actually had to obey God.

some scholars believe the name could have also had ties with Set (also Setan), from Ancient Egypt. the once enemy of Horus.

I have always suspected that surely there must be an association with "Saturn" ... but am yet to find anything tangible on that.

[throwback]

I have always suspected that surely there must be an association with "Saturn" ... but am yet to find anything tangible on that.

Here's something interesting I read on the subject of Saturn as well.


The Solar System In The Sides Of The North

Here we come to the missing component in the tale of the tower. Because the truth of the story of what really happened just before and just after the flood of Noah has been obfuscated by the confusing of the languages – to say nothing of the `washing away’ of the evidentiary record because of the overwhelming devastation of the flood itself – few understand what is at the root of the history of religion.

Prior to the flood, a planetary body in our solar system provided the requisite energy and light that was necessary to completely balance Earth’s biosphere. We already know that in the pre-flood environment, man’s genetic structure and habitat allowed him to live to be hundreds of years old. The memory of this `golden age’ of robust health and abundance persisted through the time of Noah and the subsequent generation at the Tower of Babel. [Perhaps it was also what they ate, e.g. the ORME.]

Shining brightly on a continuous basis, this planet provided just the right amount of light and warmth that complemented and perfected the radiant activity of the sun. Linguistic research on the origins of the god-names tells us it was the planet we know as Saturn.

After the flood, the descendants of Noah quickly learned that Saturn was missing. Although Saturn could still be located by the ancients, the evidence suggests that its ability to provide energy was substantially diminished – even as its location was moved to a more distant orbital path.

[Some of the evidence for this admittedly incredible view is given by Immanuel Velikovsky, and in his website, http://www.varchive.org. There is even the implication that the flood waters came in part from Saturn -- or one of its moons. Ancient history is absolutely fascinating!!]

Saturn is more widely recognized by his classical Latin name Lucifer. [This is debatable, but possible.]

Although this name is also associated with Venus, over the centuries the names and attributes of the various planetary gods have overlapped and become significantly confused – once again a testimony to the confounding of the languages at Babel.

When Saturn’s prominent position in the sky was sharply diminished, after the flood the longevity of man suddenly collapsed. Disease, hardship conditions, and a pronounced reduction in the abundance of the various harvests were immediately observed. It was obvious something had changed dramatically as the population began to perish at a progressively younger age. To put it simply, the quality of the biosphere had deteriorated substantially, and men began to search for an organizational structure to insure their survival – “lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth” (Genesis 11:4).

I guess I'll be looking into this Velikovsky guy.

http://www.varchive.org/itb/index.htm

[metacomet]

Exactly !

Yeah PS for Metacomet

Your oP has you tagged as a LUCIFERIAN basically you are spouting the rubbish that child sacrificers believe to a T!

Yeah I can see how it would seem like that.

I don't have the same definitions about Lucifer as I did when I started this thread, that's life I guess. I still believe Lucifer and Christ were both called the Morning Star for a reason - i.e. offering knowledge to humans.

But I understand Lucifer to be barely present in the Bible, so I don't have much to go on, just witnessing the ego myself during a breakthrough and realizing it is 'the beast' or 'lucifer', responsible for our fall from 'eden' and heaven. We were 'taught' something by lucifer that robbed us of innocence, and it was the ego and the ego-based reality.

[thirdwave]

Here's something interesting I read on the subject of Saturn as well.




I guess I'll be looking into this Velikovsky guy.

http://www.varchive.org/itb/index.htm

cheers for that..

[decode reality]

The idea that Lucifer was benevolent makes sense to me. How can someone who was called the 'light bringer' have gotten such bad press? Conversely, we've had centuries of people worshipping Jesus and it hasn't exactly resulted in a better world. Maybe Jesus worship is a form of devil worship. Not the most popular idea, but hey. ;)

[merlincove]

Hadn't seen this thread till today :rolleyes:



I believe Lucifer was not 'Satan' but was actually another savior entity, like Buddha and Christ.

Lucifer was the first savior to humanity.

It isn't often we agree metacomet, but i feel that you are bang on the money with this one :D



I was born and raised Christian. To come to these conclusions is not necessarily 'easy' but many others have come to it before me and it makes perfect sense to me.


It is a difficult paradigm shift isn't it - but i think that understanding it is symbolic of the breaking of old, limiting programmes :D

And looking at the date of the OP, seems we came to a similar idea around the same time :D maybe you were a few months ahead :p

;)



Lucifer was not the embodiment of evil. He was a servant of the Old Gods who grew what we call a 'conscience' and attempted to save us.



Lucifer is kindred to Divinity, imo - perhaps even a brother to Jesus (as the term 'light bringer' refers to both) and i have been guided to see that Lucifer was dispatched by Divine Creator to correct the imbalance that was created in Eden through the denial of knowledge to mankind.


Lucifer made the great mistake of giving Human beings 'knowledge'. Forbidden knowledge.


i believe that he was tasked to do this.



Lucifer's payment from history is to be painted as the ultimate villain to humanity.



i am sure that it is a payment and a sacrifice that he was willing to undertake, for in bringing knowledge - 'light' - to mankind in the dawn of his evolution far outweighs any presumption :D



The Old Gods and the Old Testament are part of an effort to maintain a massive reality hoax.

The church is also part of that effort.

Respect :D

[jconnar]

Great thread.

[luciferhorus]

Luciferian as a modern anti-Christian philosophy.

Lucifer 2010

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2f/Lucifero.gif

A few comments.

1: I have been unable to find "any" real evidence of "Luciferianism" as an ancient historical philosophy, movement or a major cult of adoration. Luciferianism is a very modern, New Age perspective. References in print to "Lucifer" in a positive light do not really predate the 19th century where "Lucifer" began to be an anti-Christian icon and symbol.

See Luciferianism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Luciferianism

2: By the term "anti-Christian philosophy," I by no means imply that it is a "unified" philosophy, it is a term used in self description by both anti-Christian spiritualists, esotericists, Satanists "and" atheists.

3: Lucifer was a very minor Roman deity. See http://www.unrv.com/culture/minor-roman-god-list.php. The Romans had numerous major and minor deities, much like the 100's of Catholic saints.

4: Since the original text of Jerome's Vulgate (The Latin Bible) used the name "Lucifer" to describe both Jesus "and" a fallen Babylon king, it seems that from Jerome's perspective, the name could be affixed to persons who were considered both good and evil. Personally however, I don't consider the Jesus described in the Gospels to be anything more than an ancient religious fanatic who believed in the primitive and barbaric Mosaic Law; I don't find anything progressive or "enlightened" about that; on the contrary.

5: The "myth" of Lucifer as a "fallen angel" is simply an invented "myth."

6: The Enlightenment. Lucifer has also become a modern symbol of the "The Enlightenment;" the period of the last few centuries where humankind has "awakened" from centuries of religious hypnosis and indoctrination, the rise of science, technology, mass education, mass literacy, and the attack against the various forms of organised religion.

For those among you who are atheists, Lucifer is generally just a human archetype which represents intelligence, education, progress, the rebellion against religion and against the tyranny of God, the gods and tyrants of the world. "Lucifer," for example, was also the name of an underground American Anarchist newspaper, a name adopted apparently because it was considered an anti-Christian archetype which represented rebellion against God and the gods (i.e., against religion).

For those are not atheists or who believe that the universe is multi-dimensional, while the "Luciferian" spirit seems to be similarly an anti-Christian archeytpe, beings of such a nature seem to be considered not only to have human representatives in this dimension, but also in other dimensions, and may even be referred to as the "gods" or ancestral spirits.

Whether one takes an atheistic or spiritual perspective, Lucifer is generally considered to be an archetype which represents such things (and non things) as human progress, human reason, beauty, music, human love, human freedom and the prevailence of humankind over the slave morality of the many religions of the world.

Lux

[karen3]

my view is that lucifer wants us to remain ignorant to the true nature of reality. as the more ignorant we are, the more evil, self serving, racist, elitest we are.

its is lucifer who only enlightens/illuminates his select, the elite. they have the knowledge. the elite have the knowledge and control us, and the elite worship lucifer.

it is lucifer who hates all mankind becoming enlightend.

as when man becomes enlightend, he realises the true nature of reality, the power of the spirit, the blessing of love and life. the connection we share to god/source, to eachother, to nature, the cosmos etc.

as when man beomes enlightend he is filled with wisdom, compassion, courage. he sees everyone as his equal, as his brother/sister. he connects to nature. he becomes one with everything.

to blame god and to see lucifer as the good guy is funny and tragic, and comes from ignorance and arrogance.

ask yourself, if lucifer is powerful why doesn't he control us openly, why , because he needs us. he manipulates us, tempts us, and we in our arrogance use our free will to choose evil.

god created everything, from the big bang to us. if god wanted to control us, he could without any resistance from us, as he created us. he doesn't want us to be controlled, he wants us to learn, develop, love, be compassionate, he/she loves us like a parent love his/her child.


This is just about as close-minded and ignorant as it gets.

[knightofthegrail]

I see people keep mentioning "Lucifer". Could anyone actually say where they get the idea of such a being existing from?

[edelweiss]

Etymology - Lucifer


O.E. Lucifer "Satan," also "morning star," from L. Lucifer "morning star," lit. "light-bringing," from lux (gen. lucis) + ferre "carry" (see infer). Belief that it was the proper name of Satan began with its used in Bible to translate Gk. Phosphoros, which translates Heb. Helel ben Shahar in Isaiah xiv.12 -- "How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning!" [KJV] The verse was interpreted by Christians as a reference to "Satan," because of the mention of a fall from Heaven, even though it is literally a reference to the King of Babylon (cf. Isaiah xiv.4). Lucifer match "friction match" is from 1831.


In a nutshell: Lucifer means the ultimate LOSER

:D

[thirdwave]

Lucifer simply means the one that brings enlightenment, it is a completely diffident word in meaning and origin, to Satan.

It is not a name as such, it is more a description..

[edelweiss]

Lucifer simply means the one that brings enlightenment, it is a completely diffident word in meaning and origin, to Satan.

It is not a name as such, it is more a description..


Wishful thinking?

Enlightenment in the Orwellian sense, yes.

War is peace.
Ignorance is strength.
Deception is enlightenment.

The fall from heaven has to be taken literally, imho.

Deplorable loser lacking light AND enlightenment.

http://akikazumatsuda.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/lucifer-18901.jpg?w=450&h=483

Even his picture is disappearing ;) I'll take another link.

"King of Babylon" says it all.

[thirdwave]

Wishful thinking?

If it was that, then one would need to asume I have a fear of "Lucifer" Which is not the case in the slightest, I have no issues with Lucifer whats so ever.

Enlightenment in the Orwellian sense, yes.

Well no, not at all... You can assess a word, and a deity, or a symbol based on the agenda of one group... or you can simply judge it at face value.. Jesus Christ him self was depicted as the morning star (A Lucifer)

The problem is not really the culprits of the world going unnoticed, but the problem is really with those who think they know everything about them and have it all mapped out, and can define the blame on an old translation of a word that means "Light bringer" .. and then identify the word as a being.

The King of Babylon was also regarded as a light bringer.

(Thanks for the scary picture! :) )

[edelweiss]

If it was that, then one would need to asume I have a fear of "Lucifer" Which is not the case in the slightest, I have no issues with Lucifer whats so ever.



Well no, not at all... You can assess a word, and a deity, or a symbol based on the agenda of one group... or you can simply judge it at face value.. Jesus Christ him self was depicted as the morning star (A Lucifer)

The problem is not really the culprits of the world going unnoticed, but the problem is really with those who think they know everything about them and have it all mapped out, and can define the blame on an old translation of a word that means "Light bringer" .. and then identify the word as a being.

The King of Babylon was also regarded as a light bringer.

(Thanks for the scary picture! :) )


Many people have been depicted as many things by many deceivers for many reasons.
None of the reasons was unconditional love or let alone enlightenment.

I just don't fall for the lies any longer.

:)

The picture isn't scary at all to me. Losifer. Deplorable.

[thirdwave]

Many people have been depicted as many things by many deceivers for many reasons.
None of the reasons was unconditional love or let alone enlightenment.

I was not aware all the reasons from all the people have been made house hold knowledge.

I just don't fall for the lies any longer.

:) A very difficult task seeing as you appear amendment you know what the lies are... already you have concluded a mind set based on some old depiction for some reason.

The picture isn't scary at all to me. Losifer. Deplorable.
Neither me.. And Neither is light.

[vancity eagle]

Lucifer is described in the OT as the one who fell from heaven,one full of pride, one who was in the Garden of Eden from the beginning, and one who wants to decieve the nations and return back to the heavens. You do the math .

[edelweiss]

Lucifer is described in the OT as the one who fell from heaven,one full of pride, one who was in the Garden of Eden from the beginning, and one who wants to decieve the nations and return back to the heavens. You do the math .


Wasn't he also described as the one who wanted to be like GOD?

The anti-GOD, so to speak.

[vancity eagle]

Wasn't he also described as the one who wanted to be like GOD?

The anti-GOD, so to speak.

yup, unfortunately he is the God of this world, but not for much longer.

[edelweiss]

yup, unfortunately he is the God of this world, but not for much longer.

Noooo :D he is only the one who claims to be like god.

Like the current "prince of Wales" who will never be king ;)

Losifer, the dod (dauphin of deception), worshipped by the "elite" of this planet.

I read they are basically anus worshippers.

:eek:

[intelfail]

The logic of the OP is just fail.

1) You identify that the physical reality is illusion
This is true. Good job.

2) You say Lucifer is trying to free people from the illusion?
WRONG.

Occultic/satanist creed "do as thou wilt"
"the whole of the law, is that there is no law"

Lucifer deceives the world into thinking this is all there is, that this life is it. That there is no after life. Satan has done a very good job at this.

This agenda is very real, clear, and documented.

Your assertions are at a distance from reality.

[thirdwave]

Lucifer is described in the OT as the one who fell from heaven,one full of pride, one who was in the Garden of Eden from the beginning, and one who wants to decieve the nations and return back to the heavens. You do the math .

We can see the same story with Prometheus..

what texts are you referring too?

[vancity eagle]

We can see the same story with Prometheus..

what texts are you referring too?

Old testament

[thirdwave]

Old testament

Its quite a big book :), could you save me from reading all through it and tell me where? ..

[jconnar]

So the serpent tempted Eve to eat from the tree of Good and Evil. To me, the eating of the fruit represents creating the polarized and reasoning mind. If the story is to be believed, Adam and Eve were in unity with God in the Garden of Eden. After the fruit was eaten they were expelled.

On the one hand you have unity with God, on the other, you have a mind that was not the same as before.

Getting back into the Garden of Eden, to be in unity with God, to reverse what the fruit did to the mind? What did the fruit do to the mind?

Did the fruit really free us, or did it create mental prison bars that a lot of people call today the matrix?

[thirdwave]

So the serpent tempted Eve to eat from the tree of Good and Evil. To me, the eating of the fruit represents creating the polarized and reasoning mind. If the story is to be believed, Adam and Eve were in unity with God in the Garden of Eden. After the fruit was eaten they were expelled.

On the one hand you have unity with God, on the other, you have a mind that was not the same as before.

Getting back into the Garden of Eden, to be in unity with God, to reverse what the fruit did to the mind? What did the fruit do to the mind?

Did the fruit really free us, or did it create mental prison bars that a lot of people call today the matrix?

The tree of the KNOWLEDGE of good and evil..

The serpent is often a depiction for the opening of the Kundalini...

One only needs to look at the other version of the story with Prometheus and how Pandora's box came about to have other insight into the story..

Prometheus was also described as stating to "God" .... that Humanity will rise and become as gods them selves and will turn against him...

After he kept knowledge and power from them in order to preserves his own power...

The Genesis version is just the side that favors God and that oppression as if the enlightening of humanity is the cause of evil...

[parousia]

Noooo :D he is only the one who claims to be like god.

Like the current "prince of Wales" who will never be king ;)

Losifer, the dod (dauphin of deception), worshipped by the "elite" of this planet.

I read they are basically anus worshippers.
:eek:


lol :D

[jconnar]

The tree of the KNOWLEDGE of good and evil..

The serpent is often a depiction for the opening of the Kundalini...

One only needs to look at the other version of the story with Prometheus and how Pandora's box came about to have other insight into the story..

Prometheus was also described as stating to "God" .... that Humanity will rise and become as gods them selves and will turn against him...

After he kept knowledge and power from them in order to preserves his own power...

The Genesis version is just the side that favors God and that oppression as if the enlightening of humanity is the cause of evil...


I have read though that the fire Prometheus gave to humans was also used for Evil to make many weapons of war that caused untold suffering and destruction.

It seems like a doubled edged sword, dammed if you do, dammed if you don't.

What is the answer to this riddle? I have no idea.


Epimetheus is Prometheus's brother.

Epimetheus (Greek: Επιμηθέας ) ("hindsight", literally "afterthought,") was the brother of Prometheus ("foresight", literally "fore-thought"),


Menoitios is Prometheus's brother.

When attempting to research the literal Greek meaning of Menoitios' name, I easily came up with earlier meanings for Menos (as used in Homer's Odyssey) - referring to: driving force, strength, and perseverance.

Resource: Eurykleia and Her Successors by Helen Pournara Karydas

Oitios (oiton) was originally a different matter... however (as also used in Homer's Odyssey) it apparently refers to: fate, doom, or death.

Resource: The Song of the Sirens By Pietro Pucci

Interestly enough... historian Thomas Keightley (1789 - 1872) in his short blurb about Menoitios gives us an alternative (and probably superior) derivation from the Greek menein ton oiton for "defying fate" with this phrase literally meaning: "to await death."

Resource: Mythology of Ancient Greece and Italy historian Thomas Keightley (1789 – 1872)


Atlas is Prometheus's the burden bearer.


The four Titans - Forethought, Afterthought, Burden Bearer, to await death/defying fate.



In Greek mythology, Iapetus ( /aɪˈæpɪtəs/),[1] also Iapetos or Japetus (Greek: Ἰαπετός), was a Titan, the son of Uranus and Gaia, and father (by an Oceanid named Clymene or Asia) of Atlas, Prometheus, Epimetheus, and Menoetius and through Prometheus, Epimetheus and Atlas an ancestor of the human race. He was the Titan of Mortal Life, while his son, Prometheus, was the creator of mankind.


There could be a riddle.

Atlas then Prometheus then Epimetheus then Menoetius.


Using the literal definitions you could get this.


Bearing the burden of fore-thought and after-thought is to a wait death/defying fate.

[sephera]

Lucifer means light bearer, it also means morningstar, another name for the planet of Venus.

Various knowledge states that Venus has inhabitants on the planet, on another density or dimension. It is on a higher density that we can detect.

There is a story which states that 144,000 beings came from Venus as a sacrifice for humanity. As the conditions at the particular time was getting denser and denser, there was alot of darkness and destruction. These beings came forth to bring light to the earth and rebalance that polarity, so that the earth was stable again, and humanity was able to continue. I believe that the earth as it is now is becoming denser and denser with low level and negative vibrations. This is why we are seeing such natural disasters and man made disasters. We might perish if there is not light.

Some writings on the story
http://www.sanatkumara.info/traditions.htm

Satan and Lucifer might have become confused with each other at some stage.

In the Abrahamic religions it seems that it is obsessed with good vs evil. In the eastern religions, it is polarity, negative and positive. It is about balance in that polarity. The main evil is your own delusion and illusion. In Buddhism and Taoism there is emphasis on finding that balance between polarity to be enlightened.

[thirdwave]

I have read though that the fire Prometheus gave to humans was also used for Evil to make many weapons of war that caused untold suffering and destruction.

It seems like a doubled edged sword, dammed if you do, dammed if you don't.

What is the answer to this riddle? I have no idea.


Epimetheus is Prometheus's brother.

Maybe so, but does this mean all must be oppressed due to an evil few?... or maybe if only a few are gaining that "fire" then the ones that do not are only victim of it.

The "PTB" may not be over flowing in the ethics department, but they are certainly good at what they do, and mostly successful in their agendas..

There could be a riddle.

Atlas then Prometheus then Epimetheus then Menoetius.


Using the literal definitions you could get this.


Bearing the burden of fore-thought and after-thought is to a wait death/defying fate.

I guess you could, but you could also create loads more if you were to look at meanings of certain gods names... but would ultimately always be guessing... I personally withdrawn my energy from something unless, there is a certain amount of clarity, I think the story strikes a very smiler concept to that of the Garden of Eden...

Jupiter (Zeus... "God")

Was not keeping fire from humanity due to fear of them killing each other and creating war, in fact they were already living like savages and struggling, due to having no fire, this was the reason Prometheus asked Zeus for permission to give them fire, to help them...

Zeus took fire from them as punishment for them playing a joke on him in a ritual.. He was offended, so punished them by taking fire from them.

He also stated that he did not want to give them fire as it would mean he had less power over them.

Prometheus then went and did it anyway and was hailed by humanity as a Saviour. After Zues damned Prometheus from heaven and chained him to the bottom of a mountain where he would have his liver eaten by an Eagle every morning, for eternity.. Zues then got Hephaestus to create the first Woman on earth who possessed a box which contained all evil. She was forbidden to open it but did so... and thus all evil came to the earth...

She was then asked to open it again as the box also contained hope, which helped deal with the evil....


For me I cant see the damage or evil done by Prometheus.. But more the trickery and power games by Zeus ("Father of Gods")..

I think he stared again in the smash hit "The Bible".

[jconnar]

Lucifer means light bearer, it also means morningstar, another name for the planet of Venus.

Various knowledge states that Venus has inhabitants on the planet, on another density or dimension. It is on a higher density that we can detect.

There is a story which states that 144,000 beings came from Venus as a sacrifice for humanity. As the conditions at the particular time was getting denser and denser, there was alot of darkness and destruction. These beings came forth to bring light to the earth and rebalance that polarity, so that the earth was stable again, and humanity was able to continue. I believe that the earth as it is now is becoming denser and denser with low level and negative vibrations. This is why we are seeing such natural disasters and man made disasters. We might perish if there is not light.

Some writings on the story
http://www.sanatkumara.info/traditions.htm

Satan and Lucifer might have become confused with each other at some stage.

In the Abrahamic religions it seems that it is obsessed with good vs evil. In the eastern religions, it is polarity, negative and positive. It is about balance in that polarity. The main evil is your own delusion and illusion. In Buddhism and Taoism there is emphasis on finding that balance between polarity to be enlightened.

Do you think Sanat Kumara and Lucifer are the same being?

[jconnar]

Prometheus, with a view to deceive Zeus and rival him in prudence, cut up a bull and divided it into two parts : he wrapped up the best parts and the intestines in the skin, and at the top he placed the stomach, which is one of the worst parts, while the second heap consisted of the bones covered with fat. When Zeus pointed out to him how badly he had made the division, Prometheus desired him to choose, but Zeus, in his anger, and seeing through the stratagem of Prometheus, chose the heap of bones covered with the fat. The father of the gods avenged himself by withholding fire from mortals, but Prometheus stole it in a hollow tube (ferula, narthêx, Aeschyl. Prom. 110).

http://www.theoi.com/Titan/TitanPrometheus.html


So, is the God of the Bible Zeus and Prometheus Lucifer?

LOL

Lucifer means Light Bringer/Bearer!!!

Prometheus brought fire/light to humans in a hollow tube. So Prometheus was bringing/bearing light, the Lucifer!

Prometheus wanted to rival Zeus in prudence. In other words, wanted to be like Zeus.


How you are fallen from heaven,
O Lucifer,[a] son of the morning!
How you are cut down to the ground,
You who weakened the nations!
13 For you have said in your heart:

‘ I will ascend into heaven,
I will exalt my throne above the stars of God;
I will also sit on the mount of the congregation
On the farthest sides of the north;

[energi]

Christ (whose teachings got reversed and hidden once he had been murdered. Oh the irony) and Lucifer both serve the same "master" - you and your own individual enlightenment.

Consider the notion that the qualities of Christ is your Right Hand, just as qualities of Lucifer is your Left Hand. What happens then if you use one of the hands, while denying the good thatis in the other hand, is that you might end up surrounding yourself in too much of the same.

NO NEED TO OPPRESS ONE OF THE HANDS WHEN THEY BOTH SERVE YOU:

http://i.imgur.com/r0MRr.jpg

I.e. do not throw out the baby with the bathwater. There is this parable called "The Fucking Buddha" which tells of a monk whose life was dedicated to the RHP; to his surprise, he was at the end of his spiritual journey required to experience a ritual from the LHP.


This is just about as close-minded and ignorant as it gets.

I agree. OP should read the bible backwards and realize that God (or the elohim/Ickean reppies ;)) is the real twat. lmao :D

[sephera]

Do you think Sanat Kumara and Lucifer are the same being?

Lucifer has been referred to as Morning star or Evening star. Sanat Kumara as a being originated from Venus, it's possible.

The Story

A Rescue Mission

Long before Jesus' Gallilean mission, Earth had already become so polluted by fallen influences that the planet could no longer be spiritually and physically sustained. This is where the story of Sanat Kumara and 144,000 volunteers from Venus comes in. To save Earth, these high souls chose to follow their guru in exile from a planet of beauty and love, described by Henry Wadsworth Longfellow in his poem, The Evening Star.

Lo! in the painted oriel of the West,
Whose panes the sunken sun incarnadines,
Like a fair lady at her casement, shines
The evening star, the star of love and rest!
Ad then anon she doth herself divest
Of all her radiant garments, and reclines
Behind the sombre screen of yonder pines,
With slumber and soft dreams of love oppressed.
O my beloved, my sweet Hesperus!
My morning and my evening star of love!
My best and gentlest lady! even thus,
As that fair planet in the sky above,
Dost thou retire unto thy rest at night,
And from thy darkened window fades the light.

(The book, Dweller on Two Planets, by Phylos the Tibetan, gives a poignant description of life on Venus at the etheric vibrational frequency.)

The mission of the 144,000 was to embody, like Jesus, in earth's densest conditions again and again to challenge darkness, to bring forth light, to expose the fallen ones and to ensoul divine awareness. Wayshowers of Christ, these ones came to reignite the spiritual flame in the hearts of mankind, rekindling the connection to innate divinity, so that through free will mankind might once again, in the words of Moses, "choose life, not death."

The sacrifice of the 144,000 was immense. Their story is recorded in books by the I AM Movement, Agni Yoga, Werner Schroeder, Charles Leadbeater and Mark and Elizabeth Clare Prophet. The forerunners of this group built the retreat of Shamballa on an island in the Gobi Sea (now the Gobi desert between Mongolia and China.)

[parousia]

Luciferianism does not depict the devil as a literal metaphysical entity. Lucifer only symbolizes the cognitive powers of man. He is the embodiment of science and reason. It is the Luciferian's religious conviction that these two facilitative forces will dethrone God and apotheosize man. It comes as little surprise that the radicals of the early revolutionary faith celebrated the arrival of Darwinism. Evolutionary theory was the edifying "science" of Promethean zealotry and the new secular religion of the scientific dictatorship. According to Masonic scholar Wilmshurst, the completion of human evolution involves man "becoming a god-like being and unifying his consciousness with the Omniscient" (94).
Luciferianism: The Religion of Apotheosis, P.D. Collins http://www.conspiracyarchive.com/Commentary/Luciferianism.htm


Luciferianism - the pinnacle of arrogance and self-delusion.

[edelweiss]

Luciferianism - the pinnacle of arrogance and self-delusion.

Second that and want to add that arrogance is the highest form of stupidity.

:)

[thirdwave]

http://www.theoi.com/Titan/TitanPrometheus.html


So, is the God of the Bible Zeus and Prometheus Lucifer?

LOL

Lucifer means Light Bringer/Bearer!!!

Prometheus brought fire/light to humans in a hollow tube. So Prometheus was bringing/bearing light, the Lucifer!

Prometheus wanted to rival Zeus in prudence. In other words, wanted to be like Zeus.

what version of the story is that, as it does not really sounds like the version I have read... maybe its just an compressed version...

[thirdwave]

Luciferianism - the pinnacle of arrogance and self-delusion.

If I had to choose a known and generalized title, it would probably be a Luciferian..

I think the groups that have strictly opposed such a thing are the real victims of ignorance...

[isaidskyla]

I have said it before but.....Golly, you guys REALLY hate the Bible, Christianity and Jesus.

[himitsunomiko]

I have said it before but.....Golly, you guys REALLY hate the Bible, Christianity and Jesus.:rolleyes:

[isaidskyla]

;):rolleyes:

Pfft.

[himitsunomiko]

Pfft.Not really any good reason to like something which has such negative affects on humanity and society, physically, emotionally, health wise, and psychologically :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

[parousia]

Not really any good reason to like something which has such negative affects on humanity and society, physically, emotionally, health wise, and psychologically :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Pray tell - what are the potential negative effects of the Jesus'
Beatitudes?

http://www.visiblesoul.org/judah/images/Verses/Beatitudes.jpg

I think they're lovely.

[edelweiss]

Pray tell - what are the potential negative effects of the Jesus'
Beatitudes?

http://www.visiblesoul.org/judah/images/Verses/Beatitudes.jpg

I think they're lovely.

Thanks, I was looking for this text in English for quites some time.

:)

[himitsunomiko]

Who created Jesus? Yahweh:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

[isaidskyla]

Not really any good reason to like something which has such negative affects on humanity and society, physically, emotionally, health wise, and psychologically :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

It does seem to do that.

[parousia]

Who created Jesus? Yahweh:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Nope. Jesus is the alpha and omega - always was, is and will be. He isn't a created being.

[himitsunomiko]

Nope. Jesus is the alpha and omega - always was, is and will be. He isn't a created being.Not going to go down this path, just keep beleiving your fairy tales.

[thirdwave]

I have said it before but.....Golly, you guys REALLY hate the Bible, Christianity and Jesus.

This comes up quite a bit..

ok so lets look at it, you have a view on spirituality, and in that view you see that most mainstream religions condemn allot of your views and claim moral high ground..

In many cases they also have much power...

If you are not able to point out the flaws and lack of substantial evidence with out either being called brainwashed or deceived by Lucifer/Satan..

Then you have to either remain silent and adopt the atitude then one must keep quote about the flaws and holes in religion, as it will only create confrontation..

Or you choose to stand your ground and remain stern in your research and outlook.

But it seems when one adopts the latter they are seen as the haters, and the ones who have some vendetta against Christ.

Lets take a look though. Is it not Christians who claimed to identify the enemy first?..

anything they cant get their heads around is basically Lucifer to them.. should a person get their head around it, they are tricked by Lucifer..

Should a person announce a Luciferian mind set and be more educated on what it is, they are also looked down on or patronized with pitty..

So no its not really Hate... I dont hate Christians nor Christ, I just see it for what it really is, and become frustrated at the extreme ignorance that people hold on to as if their lives depended on it, who will be happy to let their addiction condemn others and accuse them for being something they are not. Which happens most of the time.

religion has never solved anything, and it has never proven to be humanities saviour, it has never over ruled the "elite" and it has never ended suffering ..

Now, people can say that its because it has not been properly used... or oppressed, well for arguments sake, lets say ok.... Then we are left with religion as the format and package it has been passed on as, is also ineffective as it does not stand up to the tests of this planet and there for something else needs to be looked at... for this reason, for me it shows that it is not a choice people make to make the world better, but one because they are in need to security and become easily addicted to it.

[isaidskyla]

This comes up quite a bit..

ok so lets look at it, you have a view on spirituality, and in that view you see that most mainstream religions condemn allot of your views and claim moral high ground..

yep I encounter this at nearly every church I walk into. I think Christians like to convertChristians. Being told "you are doing it wrong, you do not really love him because if you did you would join our bible study and submit to some more of our emotional abuse/pious love".

In many cases they also have much power...

If you are not able to point out the flaws and lack of substantial evidence with out either being called brainwashed or deceived by Lucifer/Satan.

yes I have been told that a lot. Then on the other end if I say I am Christian to people who are not Christian I have to endure they way they twist their face in a "oh but you didn't look like you were a complete lunitic, oh look, I think someone over there is calling me." look. When I do finally get a chance to talk to someone about my beliefs there ears close after they here the word Christian and I spend the rest of the time talking about those same creepy expression minivan driving people who won't even give me the time.of day.and I am meant to be one of them.

Then you have to either remain silent and adopt the atitude then one must keep quote about the flaws and holes in religion, as it will only create confrontation..

Or you choose to stand your ground and remain stern in your research and outlook.

But it seems when one adopts the latter they are seen as the haters, and the ones who have some vendetta against Christ.

I can't tell my best friends I am Christian. I hinted about it once and I was met with a hand on hip enroll so I thought it best never to mention it again.

I am always impressed how much people who are not Christian have such a vast knowledge and memory of quite a few religious doctrines. I can't debate with them, they want specific scriptures, and proof etc. I am totally unarmed and they are in knowledge tanks. But one thing many of them have in common they.do not care or want to know what I am saying. I am clearly a brainwashed idiot. They make that very clear.

Lets take a look though. Is it not Christians who claimed to identify the enemy first?..

anything they cant get their heads around is basically Lucifer to them.. should a person get their head around it, they are tricked by Lucifer..

Should a person announce a Luciferian mind set and be more educated on what it is, they are also looked down on or patronized with pitty..

it is the same song for me. Christians want to re-save me and every one else wants to tell me I am a pathetic brainwashed moron I am. As for Lucifer not that anyone cares he was the most loved of all the Angels. He was the first of his kind to choose. He led a rebellion. We came along later and the love and favor God once gave to him was given to us. He wants us to know what he knows, he wants us to find all the scientific answers to the universe, he wants us to become Gods.

So no its not really Hate... I dont hate Christians nor Christ, I just see it for what it really is, and become frustrated at the extreme ignorance that people hold on to as if their lives depended on it, who will be happy to let their addiction condemn others and accuse them for being something they are not. Which happens most of the time.

But my life does depend on it and according to my belief my life will end because of it. I take it very seriously because I believe in the book. I know what people say about it...I don't want to hear how extremely ignorant I am yet again. Jesus makes people angry so they don't want to look at him anymore. He isn't good enough anymore...science can answer all the miracles and make them look like party tricks, we can explain how the universe was created. We can cure our own diseases, we can make our own humans. We are nearly Gods. Lucifer has done this for us, is mankind happy.

religion has never solved anything, and it has never proven to be humanities saviour, it has never over ruled the "elite" and it has never ended suffering ..

Now, people can say that its because it has not been properly used... or oppressed, well for arguments sake, lets say ok.... Then we are left with religion as the format and package it has been passed on as, is also ineffective as it does not stand up to the tests of this planet and there for something else needs to be looked at... for this reason, for me it shows that it is not a choice people make to make the world better, but one because they are in need to security and become easily addicted to it.

I answered within your quote. I tried to add italics so it.would be easy to spot my responses but it went sort of wrong.

[edelweiss]

Who created Jesus? Yahweh:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

What is yahweh?
Sounds like "Ach weh!" ("oj wej" in German)

:D

[unseen4ce]

I have removed my post.

I never said the name lucifer meant "fear of death", half-wits. I was describing the role of the luciferian consciousness.

Maybe you should think about why lucifer or satan or the consciousness of evil fell in the first place.

[edelweiss]

Just brilliant!

[sephera]

Lucifer is not Satan.

Lucifer means light bearer, Morning star, Phosphorus.

Somehow the church forefathers have mistranslated or misinterpret Morning star (like they did many other things) and Lucifer became the evil Satan.

[sephera]

Lucifer is the fear of death, a shadow of consciousness, a shadow of God.



How can the name light bearer mean fear of death, and shadow of God?

This is from an article. http://www.scribd.com/doc/6540538/Phosphorus-The-Shadowing-Forth-of-Lucifer

Lucifer is the Fallen Angel of Light. Born strong in the light of the God spirit,

his crown held the most beautiful jewels from the earth. His essence was of the
Sun and divine wisdom and enlightenment shone throughout him. No other Angel
or Seraphim was as bright as Lucifer.
As with all beings of light and Will, a great fire emerged within Lucifer. He
sought to become as God, to rise towards Godhead.



It's funny that in Christianity it is seen as evil to rise toward Godhead. In the east, religions of Hinduism, Buddhism and Taoism that is the main aim of meditation and practice in one way or another.

[thirdwave]

I answered within your quote. I tried to add italics so it.would be easy to spot my responses but it went sort of wrong.

I have added bold to your points.

If I am honest I'm not sure what position your taking other than you are very focused on being a Christian..

What are your views on Lucifer and how did you come about them?

I think some react to religious people based on the fact that to follow a religion fundamentally, you have to have quite a judgmental out look, thats hard to get on with...

Say for example a women was gay... or a couple that like to swing... or even someone that completely felt that Jesus was not the4 son of god and was not our Saviour.. Your doctrine would direct you into either feeling pitty for these people or a lack of respect for it due to the "sins" they would be committing...

So it can be hard for a person to be completely at ease with a Christian, and is it not something thats understandable?

Could a Luciferian and a Christian be best mates?

[thirdwave]

How can the name light bearer mean fear of death, and shadow of God?


lol, be carfull you are making sense, which means you might be under the influence of Satan! :) ... or what the hell, Lucfer...

[ferryman to the dead]

Lucifer is the fear of death, a shadow of consciousness, a shadow of God.

When people live in fear they lose their connection to the source and the Truth of who they are, in this state they turn to lucifer (the mind) for knowledge, to seek power, for material answers, and material possessions; in order to try and perpetuate their ego into eternity, or to try and alleviate the fear of death.

Some have been lost for so long (royalty) that they can no longer feel the source and can't find it no matter how many times they are confronted with the Truth. Truly their burden helps us all see the light, they are here to serve us, and they can have their riches, as the Truth of God is the greatest richness of all.

But most people only realise the Truth on their death beds, that they had nothing to fear, not even death and that God was with them all along waiting for them to pass the test of death, to die before they die.

Death is for the most sacred beings, it perfects things and takes away the sins of the past (mistakes, like GMO's etc.) and cleanses them into new life and new harmony with God.

When people live in fear they pursue worthless technologies and ideas. Their suffering and satans deception will once again lead to the realisation of Truth, as suffering leads to Truth, this is why some hold him up as God, but this is simply the role God gave him, satan, too, has his place before the Truth, but is also a servant of God.

Yeah thats right blame it on Satan another of your mythological figures. Does christianity take responsibility for any thing? From some of the posts made by cloud people on this forum I highly doubt it. You blame it on some mythical figure because thats the easiest way out.

[unseen4ce]

I didn't blame anyone, Lucifer has a most highly respectful role, he commits great acts of evil and the burden is horrendous.

He suffers so, so that we might have a chance to wake-up.

If you could read, you would read that I said Satan/lucifer what fukin ever is a servant of God, of consciousness.

He has such an important role (to decieve the world) because he was the brightest of Gods "creatures". He represents the evil in all of us, we all have a shadow, whether we acknowledge it or not.

He represents a destructive consciousness no matter which religion or how you paint the picture, I am not "blaming satan" for anything; I held him in high esteem.

I have no religious affiliation whatsoever, I am describing the mystical understanding of satan or the destrutive conciousnesses, such as kali.

They are mystical ideas, not religious.

[ferryman to the dead]

I didn't blame anyone, Lucifer has a most highly respectful role, he commits great acts of evil and the burden is horrendous.

He suffers so, so that we might have a chance to wake-up.

If you could read you would read that I said Satan/lucifer what fukin ever is a servant of God, of consciousness.

He has such an important role (to decieve the world) because he was the brightest of Gods "creatures". He represents the evil in all of us, we all have a shadow, whether we acknowledge it or not.

He represents a destructive consciousness no matter which religion or how you paint the picture, I am not "blaming satan" for anything; I held him in high esteem.

Stop your pathetic pretending of honoring a devil that christians blame for everything thats not right in their life.

He has such an important role (to decieve the world) because he was the brightest of Gods "creatures".


And what role is that exactly? Myths cannot carry out demonic acts and make people do stupid things!

[unseen4ce]

Stop your pathetic pretending of honoring a devil that christians blame for everything thats not right in their life.
Pretending of honoring ...a devil that Christians blame for everything.

What the fuck is wrong with your worthless mind, this is NOT a coherent sentence. I do not pretend to honour satan, I am simply describing that consciousness and it's role in the One Truth, are you aware that most religions just describe aspects of consciousnes; good versus evil, life vs death, truth vs folly. This is why the Hindus have so many Gods.

Christians do not blame satan for everything either.

And what role is that exactly? Myths cannot carry out demonic acts and make people do stupid things!

I already described the role in subsequent posts, dumbass (seriously I cannot talk to you well, now, because frankly you are a dumbass troll).

Myths cannot blah blah blah, you think it is a myth, a story, because you don't get the mystical or esoteric interpretation (mine specifically) and I cannot not help you here, because, as is apparent, you are hopelessy stupid.

No myths cannot carry-out acts, but consciousness, the foundation of all experience, can; this is what it is describing in the "myth".

[sephera]

Not that I believe this but, someone once told me the Church was run by Satan to keep humanity ignorant of their spirituality and bound to this 3 dimensional world, endlessly repeating the cycle of suffering.

Something to ponder.

[chris_dixon]

If you were to pass me a bible to read, which one would it be?

I don't think you can brush of "that zietgiest" because his B day was not on the 25th... for a start the Z film implys he did not exist... so its not like they were guessing his B date.. they where simply showing the relevant of that date used as it has been for many many many years...... I don't know why religious people cant be more supportive when these DVDs expose what is being corrupted in their religion..

I also do not agree that the Horus thing is to sell books... I have researched bits and peaces my self and the old authors who raised these points do come up with valid points... but its hard to over rule the info of info that has been force fed to kids in schools for many many years....

You have to remeber that many anciant texts have been destoried, and strories changed.... are you saying that through all the religious wars and fights among christian faiths over the years they have not tampered with the histry of other civilisations?

so what are your thoughts of the Hindu texts which date back much much longer than Christian texts and the story of Jesus, talking about a man called "yeesha Masih" who was born of a virgin .. and who died a horid death of blood shed for our sins... he was refered to as "sovereign king in a holy person robed in white" ....had "horny vines" placed on his head and was crucifide.... and many more extream similarities..

all this was in texts that predates Jesus many many years...

what are your thoughts on that?

I think Ralph Ellis thinks he can prove that Yeshua/Jesus existed but its not in the time frame that most believe. His most recent interview with Heinrik at red ice creations brings some startling evidence about who he was and his parentage. Plus also who the Jews really are, not a slave race from Egypt but actually the Hyksos = Shepherd Kings. A great interview to listen to and I am gonna have a look at his books as well and do some digging of my own. Just incase hes full of it:D

[isaidskyla]

[QUOTE=thirdwave;1059860411]I have added bold to your points.

If I am honest I'm not sure what position your taking other than you are very focused on being a Christian..
Position?

What are your views on Lucifer and how did you come about them?

As for Lucifer... he was the most loved of all the Angels. He was the first of his kind to choose. He led a rebellion. We came along later and the love and favor God once gave to him was given to us. He wants us to know what he knows, he wants us to find all the scientific answers to the universe, he wants us to become Gods. Like I have said he wants to give you all the knowledge that he can. He wants to show you that humans can even make life from hardly anything if they wanted to, they can use the animal kingdom to splice and correct our own physical limitations and ailments. He wants to show us how God created the universes. He wants us to know that God is preventing us from having this knowledge because he is a tyrant. So it comes down again to do you want to bite the apple or do you want to trust that God will wash the earth once again and that mankind will be restored and progressed when we advance naturally? I am impressed like anyone at all the wonders we can do but they are hollow for me because God is not in them.

I think some react to religious people based on the fact that to follow a religion fundamentally, you have to have quite a judgmental out look, thats hard to get on with...

Say for example a women was gay... or a couple that like to swing... or even someone that completely felt that Jesus was not the4 son of god and was not our Saviour.. Your doctrine would direct you into either feeling pitty for these people or a lack of respect for it due to the "sins" they would be committing...

So it can be hard for a person to be completely at ease with a Christian, and is it not something thats understandable?

I have never been at ease with a Christian so I would not know. Are you at ease with me? I understand the passion many born again Christians have, I have it myself. I was told through a set of grinning teeth surrounded by a bad perm once that it is "A Personal Experience with God." I disregarded that statement at the time because it sounded very neatly wrapped and born again.

As time has gone by I have begin to notice people, and more to the point patterns in people. We are all in a way our own tiny universes orbited by our people, our lifestyle, our choices etc. I worked as a stripper in a topless bar for 13 years, sometimes it was a very sad soulless void of a place but EVEN in there people who were looking for God just happened to find me and others in there like me, that they left on the path to find Him. It is my little universe rotating theirs just as ours are rotating now, we will drift away but the remnants of our conversations will linger for us to consider when the time is right.

It is in fact A Personal Relationship With God. As to your examples: a gay woman comes to accept Jesus, she is filled with a passion to reach out to her community to go into dark places and offer someone lost a way back out. Maybe this is through public works etc. but she still impacts people who now know that God can love them as well no matter who they are. He changes you he makes you want to be in the right place at the right time.

As to the swingers who accept Christ, he may remind them of the desire that they have for each other and show them that there is a world beyond the bedroom door and that joy would be to see it together. These are only examples it since it is personal between an individual and God it is impossible for me to know.

But God knows what is in a persons heart and what they are afraid to confront or change he puts the right people in orbit together at the right time. Some people need that born again Christians fire and brimstone some people need to feel His love and heal they all come to understand the weight of Christianity in the end but the path in varies.

Could a Luciferian and a Christian be best mates?

Sure but it might make for a few very awkward conversation.

[edelweiss]

Not that I believe this but, someone once told me the Church was run by Satan to keep humanity ignorant of their spirituality and bound to this 3 dimensional world, endlessly repeating the cycle of suffering.

Something to ponder.

The Roman Catholic church was consecrated to satan according to insider Malachi Martin, who died a very sudden death shortly after publishing his book.



In "Windswept House", Martin was quite explicit about the conditions in the Vatican,
opening the novel with the above-mentioned satanic ritual.

In it, Satan was formally enthroned in the Vatican in the Chapel of St. Paul
(by all reports a dark and appropriately spooky place).
The ceremony was coordinated via telephone with another SIMULTANEOUS RITE in South Carolina.



Read more:

http://www.tldm.org/news/martin.htm
Malachi Martin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[sephera]

The Roman Catholic church was consecrated to satan according to insider Malachi Martin, who died a very sudden death shortly after publishing his book.



Read more:

http://www.tldm.org/news/martin.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malachi_Martin

Quite chilling, the person is a longtime student of esoteric studies. She said that the Ascended Masters and Archangels will come and destroy the dark cabal and free humanity. This process is happening now as we speak. An illuminati insider said that they held initiation rituals inside the Vatican, involving sacrifice and such. Italy is meant to be the cradle of Christianity and Christ. I was in Italy for a while, the vibes I picked up at certain places like Turin was quite chilling and demonic, something I had never experienced before.

I am scared if I post and discuss too much of this stuff. People might come after me. :(

Children are been taught that demons and things aren't real, A figment of their imagination, thus they can't protect themselves from it. When they suffer from the attacks they are label schizophrenic. Churches and houses are not longer being consecrated (as in clearing negative energy), it just builds up all this negative energy which can lead to possession. I study a lot of energy, esoteric knowledge. Protection and consecration in the name of GOD (Elohim, Adonai, YHWH) and Light is imperative. I use YHWH but I cannot say whether his is all good or evil, I know that he is a very powerful being and will come to aid.


"Unless the parents teach their children of the existence of this other world unseen to the human eye, the children cannot then be protected from the attacks of these agents from hell. My child, they are real, they are living, and they have great power. They, too, possess names as do the high angels in the Kingdom of your God in Heaven." - Our Lady, March 15, 1978

[edelweiss]

I use YHWH but I cannot say whether his is all good or evil

YHWH

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/14/YHWH.png

in "catholic" churches

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/86/YHWH.JPG/240px-YHWH.JPG


Palace of Versailles

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6c/Tetragrammaton_at_5th_Chapel_of_the_Palace_of_Vers ailles_France.jpg/180px-Tetragrammaton_at_5th_Chapel_of_the_Palace_of_Vers ailles_France.jpg

May I recommend this wiki site for feeling and perceiving:

Tetragrammaton - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[ferryman to the dead]

Quite chilling, the person is a longtime student of esoteric studies. She said that the Ascended Masters and Archangels will come and destroy the dark cabal and free humanity. This process is happening now as we speak. An illuminati insider said that they held initiation rituals inside the Vatican, involving sacrifice and such. Italy is meant to be the cradle of Christianity and Christ. I was in Italy for a while, the vibes I picked up at certain places like Turin was quite chilling and demonic, something I had never experienced before.

I am scared if I post and discuss too much of this stuff. People might come after me. :(

Children are been taught that demons and things aren't real, A figment of their imagination, thus they can't protect themselves from it. When they suffer from the attacks they are label schizophrenic. Churches and houses are not longer being consecrated (as in clearing negative energy), it just builds up all this negative energy which can lead to possession. I study a lot of energy, esoteric knowledge. Protection and consecration in the name of GOD (Elohim, Adonai, YHWH) and Light is imperative. I use YHWH but I cannot say whether his is all good or evil, I know that he is a very powerful being and will come to aid.

I am scared if I post and discuss too much of this stuff. People might come after me. :(


Hell, post it! Cannot be anymore ridiculous than a lot of the religious hypocrisy that is posted here.....

Amorte!:D

[sephera]

YHWH

May I recommend this wiki site for feeling and perceiving:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetragrammaton

Thanks, what is your opinion on this.

[chris_dixon]

I used to use YHWH in my user name but now I don't use it. Probably because it is hard to ascertain where the origin of the name comes from. It certainly isnt the Father of Yeshua or the Divine Creator and more likely to be a leader of the elohim who ruled and still do as gods and had the Jews/Hyksos commit all their attrocities in their name. They are the ones who probably live in the moon according to DI.

[thelucifer]

The Jesus character in the Bible is made claiming to be the Lucifer hence Revelation 22:16 "I am....the bright and morning star."
Lucifer is a Latin word that means morning star, how can people be so utterly confused about this ?
In big part thanks to St Gerome 4th century for the mistranslation in Isaiah 14.

Jesus says he is the Lucifer !!!

The problem from there is this Jesus never existed as a historical figure.

The game is serious and ancient.

TPTB want to be the Lucifer but are not bringers of light but darkness hence the thing set up in Washington DC, the Super Power of the world, Novus Ordo Seclorum.


Darkness was/is upon the face/whole of the deep/world.

[thelucifer]

Lucifer is occult Jesus
Luciferianism is occult Christianity






That is the false Lucifer/Luciferianism

[edelweiss]

Thanks, what is your opinion on this.

Very low frequency.

[energi]

For me:

Jesus isn't as much a lie as much as he is a falsened/perverted thing from what he actually stood for: Light/White gnosticists recognize that the power in Jesus [which, when tapped, can lead one to gnosis] lies in his living... Or what he did while being alive.

The joke is on those who in their amnesia trick themselves into thinking that Jesus WHEN DEAD holds the answers.


Likewise, Satan isn't as much as a lie as he is a falsened/perverted thing from he actually stood for: Dark/Black gnosticists recognize that the power in Satan [which, when tapped, can lead one to gnosis] lies in his living... Or what he does while being trapped in his physical prison-body (by GOD the deceiver (see God Is Evil), not the true god of the christian gnosticists]).




For both, what lies beyond the flesh/animated/living is the formless state of that which was before time and space (and exists beyond the illusions of such). These two states are interchangeable, when after gnosis YOU are Infinity in awareness of its own imagination of finity.


Lucifer and Jesus are brothers, the thing separating them being that Jesus can be said to lead the True Light-people and Lucifer the True Dark-people. Without need for further explanation there ARE, unsurprisingly, everybody in-between + those in the perfect middle.


LIGHT - THESIS

MIDDLE (perfect, 50/50, middle way) - SYNTHESIS

DARK - ANTITHESIS

[thirdwave]

Position?

I mean, I was not sure where you stood with regards to your belief in Christ, as you are also very critical of it, it would seem...


As for Lucifer... he was the most loved of all the Angels. He was the first of his kind to choose. He led a rebellion. We came along later and the love and favor God once gave to him was given to us. He wants us to know what he knows, he wants us to find all the scientific answers to the universe, he wants us to become Gods. Like I have said he wants to give you all the knowledge that he can. He wants to show you that humans can even make life from hardly anything if they wanted to, they can use the animal kingdom to splice and correct our own physical limitations and ailments. He wants to show us how God created the universes. He wants us to know that God is preventing us from having this knowledge because he is a tyrant. So it comes down again to do you want to bite the apple or do you want to trust that God will wash the earth once again and that mankind will be restored and progressed when we advance naturally? I am impressed like anyone at all the wonders we can do but they are hollow for me because God is not in them.

So Lucifer is simply wanting to empower humans?... Yes I agree...

What I dont get is where you faith in God comes into the picture? ... Why do you favor the one who oppresses the one trying to help us?

Excuse me for the interrogation, I just find some Christians have their own kind of outlook on things, which for me is not really Christianity, but more like a spiritual outlook inspired by Christianity.


I have never been at ease with a Christian so I would not know. Are you at ease with me? You are less desporet and imposing sounding as most I debate with... But As I say, for me it seems many people have a spiritual concept that their mind understand, and they sink this with Christ and use that as a platform to explain it...

Unless you are more fundamental and I am misunderstanding you..

I understand the passion many born again Christians have, I have it myself. I was told through a set of grinning teeth surrounded by a bad perm once that it is "A Personal Experience with God." I disregarded that statement at the time because it sounded very neatly wrapped and born again.

As time has gone by I have begin to notice people, and more to the point patterns in people. We are all in a way our own tiny universes orbited by our people, our lifestyle, our choices etc. I worked as a stripper in a topless bar for 13 years, sometimes it was a very sad soulless void of a place but EVEN in there people who were looking for God just happened to find me and others in there like me, that they left on the path to find Him. It is my little universe rotating theirs just as ours are rotating now, we will drift away but the remnants of our conversations will linger for us to consider when the time is right. ok, a question..

As you have grown up, have you had friends or family around you that have the same spiritual outlook as you, and you could talk to and look in the eye understanding where you are coming from??



He changes you he makes you want to be in the right place at the right time. But a Gay women cant and wont want to change.. And as far as the bible goes until she does, he will close the door on here... (this is just one example)

As to the swingers who accept Christ, he may remind them of the desire that they have for each other and show them that there is a world beyond the bedroom door and that joy would be to see it together. These are only examples it since it is personal between an individual and God it is impossible for me to know. The problem with the vast majority of religions, is it likes to make every single person, the same person, and it takes away individuality.. Because the truth is we are all so diffident as well as the same... what is good for me might be good for you, but it might also be the last thing you need... so on...

for me the only moral compass needed is one that respects freedom and love for all.... I don't think we come here for god, we came here for our selves... its our movie, not Gods... We are all the stars in our own movie...

But God knows what is in a persons heart and what they are afraid to confront or change he puts the right people in orbit together at the right time. Some people need that born again Christians fire and brimstone some people need to feel His love and heal they all come to understand the weight of Christianity in the end but the path in varies.[/B]
I think people have faith in God because the to not feel worthy of creating for them selves, or they fear they do not trust them selves... But I think out jobs are to try and keep trying until we get the hang of it...



Sure but it might make for a few very awkward conversation. :)

But it would mainly be because the Christian would see Lucifer as its enemy... Lucifer has no issues with Christ, other than the bad press...

People will only point out evil people who appear to be Luciferian... Because they assume we all need Gods to rule us, and our behavior is a mirror of that God..

I do not believe this.. I think Lucifer will just help who ever is genuine with their intention.. Be it an evil war lord, or a kind and loving person wanting to change the world.. but he leaves the responsibility and decisions to the man/woman...

Are you to decide humans are not worthy of such freedom and must be muzzled by a controlling God, where we only evolve once we are dead?

[thirdwave]

I think Ralph Ellis thinks he can prove that Yeshua/Jesus existed but its not in the time frame that most believe. His most recent interview with Heinrik at red ice creations brings some startling evidence about who he was and his parentage. Plus also who the Jews really are, not a slave race from Egypt but actually the Hyksos = Shepherd Kings. A great interview to listen to and I am gonna have a look at his books as well and do some digging of my own. Just incase hes full of it:D

Ralf Ellis basically has the view that the character is built up from a number of characters and mythical stories...

I am also open prophets and wise teachers having lived throughout history...

But I think nowadays their stories and teachings are long lost... But there is always these kind of people who come about, and every time they are met with the same reaction...

When "Jesus" was supposed to have been around, what was he met with, Religious people stating he was dissing their god.... that he was claiming to be king of the Jews and was mocked for it... Jesus criticized the religious around him and how hypocritical they were...

And we see the exact same thing today.. Take Eckhart Tolle or something... or Even Icke... same old thing, only today its not so easy to just round a guy up and have him killed, which Im sure happened lots back then...

I think Tsarion hit the nail on the head when he said if you want to get more understanding of the bible, when it states a name of a person, see it more as a big group of people, a movement, or a race... so on...

Jesus for me is symbolic of many people throughout time... (as well as manufactured techniques of control put in there to help create order)

[thirdwave]

Very low frequency.

The only reason you can recognize a high frequency is because there IS low frequency's... maybe something worth respecting :)

[edelweiss]

The only reason you can recognize a high frequency is because there IS low frequency's... maybe something worth respecting :)

What made you THINK that I don't have respect for the counterpart ?

:)

[thirdwave]

What made you THINK that I don't have respect for the counterpart ?

:)

Your short description...

[one666]

Physical reality is an illusion. We operate in this illusion, not knowing that is illusion. Therefore we fear death and pain - we are slaves to illusion.

The only way to end our slavery is to attain knowledge. This is a fundamental truth. Knowledge dissolves illusion like light dissolves darkness.



The Old Testament creation myth has been dissected so many times. I am now starting to realize one of the most startling theories.

This physical world and all within are illusion. The master of this reality and this dimension is NOT the holy creator or the all-is. This physical reality and dimension is another form of separation from God, another form of 'hell' and it is our destiny to escape it. We have been given instructions for this process of escape many times , from the Buddha, from Christ and possibly from Lucifer himself.


Is Lucifer a slandered character in history? Maybe so!

I believe true evil exists - and that the truest evil is illusion.

If the masters of this reality wanted to keep us in illusion, they would condemn and vilify anyone trying to break us free from illusion.

I believe Lucifer was not 'Satan' but was actually another savior entity, like Buddha and Christ.

Lucifer made the great mistake of giving Human beings 'knowledge'. Forbidden knowledge.

Now why on Earth would a benevolent creator God want to keep his children from knowledge? Because the Old Gods were not of the holy spirit . Just as this physical reality is not of the holy spirit . The 'Elohim' and this reality they have trapped us in are DENSE and of LOW VIBRATION - they have always and will always manipulate us to keep us in this same dense vibration. Any knowledge passed towards humanity which can free us from this reality prism is FORBIDDEN and is almost always perverted in the form of organized religion.


Lucifer was the first savior to humanity. He is now painted as the ultimate villain - 'You stay away from that BAD MAN! Stick to what you KNOW!' Said the Elohim.



I was born and raised Christian. To come to these conclusions is not necessarily 'easy' but many others have come to it before me and it makes perfect sense to me.


The Old Gods were not the true great spirit. They were our slave masters. They are still around. They ground us to this illusory reality and forbid us from attaining knowledge that can free us.


Lucifer was not the embodiment of evil. He was a servant of the Old Gods who grew what we call a 'conscience' and attempted to save us.

Lucifers payment from history is to be painted as the ultimate villain to humanity.

The Old Gods and the Old Testament are part of an effort to maintain a massive reality hoax.

There is no god, click onto my link at the bottom of my Avitar Equillibrium@youtube and watch the four vids if you really want truth and i mean the REAL Truth

[edelweiss]

Your short description...


I always admire people who are able to get to the point in plain words and straight forward. It's a virtue which all so-called "politicians" are totally lacking.
Wordiness bores me to death. Life is much too precious to waste it on egocentrism.

:)

[one666]

I always admire people who are able to get to the point in plain words and straight forward. It's a virtue which all so-called "politicians" are totally lacking.
Wordiness bores me to death. Life is much too precious to waste it on egocentrism.

:)

Well, as i always say "Anyone who can't get to the point is always a Liar or hiding something"

[edelweiss]

Well, as i always say "Anyone who can't get to the point is always a Liar or hiding something"

Second that without hesitating!

[thirdwave]

Well, as i always say "Anyone who can't get to the point is always a Liar or hiding something"

True I guess... Although it is better if you are able to provide some kind of substance to your point, or it then just appears aloof.

[isaidskyla]

I mean, I was not sure where you stood with regards to your belief in Christ, as you are also very critical of it, it would seem...

I do not mean to sound critical of Christianity, but my experience with Christians has been very hit or miss.


So Lucifer is simply wanting to empower humans?... Yes I agree...

What I dont get is where you faith in God comes into the picture? ... Why do you favor the one who oppresses the one trying to help us?

For me it comes down to why. Why is Lucifer doing it. Well, my faith tells me why, it is because of anger, pain, rejection, jealously and revenge. We are Gods joy and his happiness what better way to lash out. Teach them to be Gods and they will reject him and love me way of being.

Excuse me for the interrogation, I just find some Christians have their own kind of outlook on things, which for me is not really Christianity, but more like a spiritual outlook inspired by Christianity.

Mine is biblical based but I am aware of the world around.. It is not always black and white and God is the one who knows what it is meant to be.

You are less desporet and imposing sounding as most I debate with... But As I say, for me it seems many people have a spiritual concept that their mind understand, and they sink this with Christ and use that as a platform to explain it...

Unless you are more fundamental and I am misunderstanding you..

I understand the passion many born again Christians have, I have it myself. I was told through a set of grinning teeth surrounded by a bad perm once that it is "A Personal Experience with God." I disregarded that statement at the time because it sounded very neatly wrapped and born again.

ok, a question..

As you have grown up, have you had friends or family around you that have the same spiritual outlook as you, and you could talk to and look in the eye understanding where you are coming from??

No, I can't say that I have yet but I probably will someday. I recall being sent out of a class and "deprogramed" for an entire school day for pointing out that dinosaurs are real and that giants were also real.


But a Gay women cant and wont want to change.. And as far as the bible goes until she does, he will close the door on here... (this is just one example)

Perhaps she will, perhaps she won't. God has a way of changing a person but perhaps he doesn't want or need her to change perhaps he needs her to be who she is.

The problem with the vast majority of religions, is it likes to make every single person, the same person, and it takes away individuality.. Because the truth is we are all so diffident as well as the same... what is good for me might be good for you, but it might also be the last thing you need... so on...

I guess? But it hasn't been the case for me.

for me the only moral compass needed is one that respects freedom and love for all.... I don't think we come here for god, we came here for our selves... its our movie, not Gods... We are all the stars in our own movie...



I think people have faith in God because the to not feel worthy of creating for them selves, or they fear they do not trust them selves... But I think out jobs are to try and keep trying until we get the hang of it...

I have enjoyed being bounced into this life and that, this continent and the next. I have loved seeing the.realization sweep over a.persons face.

:)

But it would mainly be because the Christian would see Lucifer as its enemy... Lucifer has no issues with Christ, other than the bad press...

People will only point out evil people who appear to be Luciferian... Because they assume we all need Gods to rule us, and our behavior is a mirror of that God..

I do not believe this.. I think Lucifer will just help who ever is genuine with their intention.. Be it an evil war lord, or a kind and loving person wanting to change the world.. but he leaves the responsibility and decisions to the man/woman...

Are you to decide humans are not worthy of such freedom and must be muzzled by a controlling God, where we only evolve once we are dead?[/QUOTE]

[edelweiss]

True I guess... Although it is better if you are able to provide some kind of substance to your point, or it then just appears aloof.


To whom?

Those who know understand clear words.
Those who don't know but wish to understand have to make the effort to do their own research, because it is inevitable. You can't believe or trust anyone these days.
Those who don't know and are not interested will neither read "kind of substance", nor will they do research on their own. Those are the ones who drivel along and want to discuss basic facts endlessly. Egocentrism. Or they are disinformation agents.

It's that easy.

:)

[ftil]

Edelweiss wrote:


Those who don't know and are not interested will neither read "kind of substance", nor will they do research on their own. Those are the ones who drivel along and want to discuss basic facts endlessly. Egocentrism. Or they are disinformation agents.

It's that easy.


Absolutely! Some are under the spell of mass hypnosis so that they can’t think critically at all. They are engaged in meaningless discussion to feed their weak ego. Others try so hard to create confusion, providing a mix of lies with a little truth. They love to engage people in a meaningless discussion that distract them to do own research. :D

[thirdwave]

For me it comes down to why. Why is Lucifer doing it. Well, my faith tells me why, it is because of anger, pain, rejection, jealously and revenge. We are Gods joy and his happiness what better way to lash out. Teach them to be Gods and they will reject him and love me way of being.

This brings me back to my points... in the bible it does not really tell us he has been jealous of God, or wanting revenge... only that he tempted Adam and Eve against Gods will...

Then with my further research into other smiler stories, again the agenda is more to do with opposing the way God oppressed and suppressed Humans..

Fair enough you did say your faith tells you, but for me it is only faith.

No, I can't say that I have yet but I probably will someday. I recall being sent out of a class and "deprogramed" for an entire school day for pointing out that dinosaurs are real and that giants were also real.

Ok I suspected as much. What I mean is, when one experiences and goes through spiritual experiences and developments, it can actually be quite daunting and confusing.. I find when people do this alone, they tend to grasp religious concepts.. as opposed to people who go through them in a group or with people who see what they see, you can adopt a more independent perception of it..

I don't mean it in a patronizing way... But for me many people just need to find something that will attach to the realization of the vast universe...

Perhaps she will, perhaps she won't. God has a way of changing a person but perhaps he doesn't want or need her to change perhaps he needs her to be who she is. biblically, she is screwed.

[edelweiss]

Absolutely! Some are under the spell of mass hypnosis so that they can’t think critically at all. They are engaged in meaningless discussion to feed their weak ego. Others try so hard to create confusion, providing a mix of lies with a little truth. They love to engage people in a meaningless discussion that distract them to do own research. :D

Yep.

Back to the topic: LOSIFER, the name says it all aready, imho. Nomen est omen.
But he was given another chance. I am really curious to see how he will transform it.


:)